Replacement fan for the IIGS
SlickRCBD
that sometimes when I turn on the machine, the fan fails to start, and I
need to open the case and give the fan a little nudge to get it to start
up.
I was wondering, if I needed a fan specifically for the IIGS due to
unique power requirements or plug sizes, or if I can run out to Radio
Shack or CompUSA and grab a cheap fan off the shelf. Both locations
have fans that look identical to the one inside, but I can't tell if
their the exact same size connector or not, and I'm not sure what the
voltage requirement is. The fans are for modern computers. I could
probably dig the manual out of storage to get the voltage, but it won't
tell me about the plug.
jboo...@gmail.com
12v fan.
Get one for cheap (I wouldn't pay more than $2.00)
Find a PC at a thrift store, and give them $5.00. You should
get a fan, the proper connector (from a 3.5 drive power
cable), and a bigger external power supply for your GS
as well. If you use a PC supply instead of the internal
apple II supply, your IIgs will be much cooler inside
Mark Frischknecht
pust the air through the right channels..
Martin Doherty
> ... Find a PC at a thrift store, and give them $5.00. You should
> get a fan, the proper connector (from a 3.5 drive power
> cable), and a bigger external power supply for your GS
> as well. If you use a PC supply instead of the internal
> apple II supply, your IIgs will be much cooler inside
>
If you do this, please dispose of the unwanted remains responsibly!
Computers contain some nasty heavy metals, chorinated and brominated
flame retardants and shouldn't simply be put out with the trash.
http://www.earth911.org can help you find local reuse and recycling
facilities.
Mitchell Spector
If you're looking for the official Apple fan, I noticed Shreves Systems
is offering them new in the box for US$8 (with free shipping) on eBay:
Apart from the vintage box packing and plastic clips to mount the fan
to the side of the Apple IIgs's powersupply, there's nothing unique about
them. It's just your standard and typical run-of-the-mill 12 volt fan with
two-pin connector. Any computer or electronics shop carries these
inexpensively, and if need be, the molex pin connector can be swapped
without too much difficulty. The connector on the motherboard is simply
+12v and ground (the pin closet to the powersuply holds the voltage).
The Apple fan was not a very popular option. It was fairly noisy,
blocked one or more card slots, and just re-circulated the already hot
air inside the case. External fans (i.e. JuiceBox GS, System Saver GS,
Converser) at least drew the hot air out through the vents.
Mitchell Spector
SlickRCBD
Well, it did make a big differenceafter I first installed my PC
Transporter card back in the day. AT THE TIME, I only had the bundled
memery expansion card installed in it, and the computer started to
crash, lock up, or have other mysterious failures after the computer had
been on for a while, all of the mysterious crashes and other problems
mysteriously vanished when I installed the fan.
If the fan is worthless, why did it fix the overheating problems?
Also, please remember that this was about 15 years ago (around 1990, or
'91, I forget), so if my discription is inaccurate, make allowances. I
just remember that I started to have problems after installing the PCT,
that vanished when I installed the fan.
Sean Fahey
news:p-idncOrPprQqt_e...@comcast.com...
> If the fan is worthless, why did it fix the overheating problems?
The fan isn't worthless, just not tbe best cooling option.
Let's clear up some myth-conceptions. Speaking in the context of the GS
only, nearly any fan will be an improvement, even if it circulates warm
air - because the GS case is designed to "breathe". Like the Apple IIc,
Apple engineers built the GS for passive cooling by convection, because they
assumed that because they designed a machine with so many built-in ports,
users wouldn't need or desire to add more than a couple extra cards.
Nowhere is this more apparent than in education, where Apple primarilly
targeted schools with the IIGS. The majority of those machines have nothing
in them except an Apple RAM card because generally, they were used as
nothing more than fast //e replacements. They ran fine, day in day out, with
no cooling fan.
You have to understand Apple's thinking at the time: they didn't expect
users to fill up all the slots. The main reason the slots existed were for
flexibility and backwards compatibility to create marketing leverage. Apple
wanted to make it easier for users to migrate and preserve their expensive
peripheral investments. Apple really did anticipate all those II Plus and
//e users to want to upgrade to the GS. There was also the huuuge peripheral
aftermarket to take into account - getting rid of slots would have
fundamentally changed the peripheral market and made a lot of
people/companies mad. Anyway, back to the point, Apple engineers expected
most users to rely on the built-in ports.
You can see this line of thinking finally culminating in the Mark Twain (ROM
04) GS, a machine with slot 5 and 7 being physically removed because those
slots were mapped to the smartport and built-in SCSI controller. Never mind
that the HS SCSI option would come later, or better peripherals - the slot
wasn't going to be there anymore.
It's true, the internal fan placement wasn't very well conceived mostly
because it was an afterthought and a shortsighted one at that. The
Apple-branded fan wasn't the best solution because it was big, noisy and
(according to some) blew in the wrong direction. It also sucked power off
the mainboard that the GS could have been using instead, and in some
instances, introduced signal noise to the system.
Apple became accutely aware of the cooling situation early on - people were
adding 2 or 3 cards to their systems and power supplies began stroking.
Apple eventually announced that if you added (I forget the number, I think
more than) 2 cards, you had to install their fan if you wanted to be covered
under warranty.
Peripheral manufacturers continued designing innovative cards capable of
pushing the GS far past it's Apple's expectations and specifications. Cards
out-performed the built-in ports. BTW, this is one reasons why Apple began
to slowly kill the GS; because it was gaining functionality features that
threatend the Mac LC. The Mac LC may have been technologically superior but
an upgraded GS was cheaper, and would only slow adoption of the Mac
platform.
I'm short on time but I could go on about this... but in a nutshell, your
internal fan isn't worthless, it's just not the best option available. Not
when you can still get a Kensington System Saver somewhat easily on eBay.
The KSS is probably the best, most available cooling option for the GS -
it's definately better than the MDIdeas/AE Conservor.
I know several people that still use an internal fan WITH the KSS, for
airflow assist. Unlike the Apple fan that pulls air out of the power supply,
and then blows onto the cards - these people flip the fan around, pulling
air off their cards (mainly the accelerator) and the KSS clears the air from
the power supply. That actually works really well. That brings up another
issue - the KSS was initially designed to only lift warm air off the power
supply. The marketing info you may see on their packaging and in magazine
ads where they illustrate air circulating in the case is a bit of a fib. The
truth is, Kensington also didn't expect users to add bunches of cards, and
they were a bit surprised when TranswarpGS arrived. Later revs of the KSS
had improved bearings in the fans (early units burned out too early - from
heat), had higher RPMs (to compensate for accelerators) to move more air.
There are also how-to's circulating on how to beef up the KSS fan with the
better fan that shipped in the KSS //e model (better bearings), and you
could add a rheostat to make the fan variable speed - faster (louder)
maximum cooling, slower (quieter) for normal operation.
SlickRCBD
That reminds me, my external hard drive has it's own fan as well as two
plugs on the back that are powered up at the same time you power up the
HD. It quite frankly reminds me of the System Saver, though I never knew
anybody that owned one, I'd seen it in stores and in magazine ads. I
don't remember what the brand or model name is, and there isn't any
external label on it to tell me. It's 327mb and is almost as big as the
IIGS case, about an inch shy of the length, and maybe an inch and a half
shy of the width.
The thing blows air downwards, so I figured it was safe to put on the
IIGS case to aid the fan. Considering that it's been working fine for
well over a decade, I'd have to say I was correct.
Thing is, I remember this drive was meant for Macintoshes. It came with
System 6.0.7 (IIRC they didn't call it Mac OS 6.0.7 until OS 8 came out)
pre-installed.
In any case, according to the manual for my IIGS, the number of card
before a fan was requried was 3, which was why I hadn't installed a fan
at the same time as the PCT (I didn't get the SCSI card until later). I
didn't think that video switch (or was it called color switch? I'd have
to check the manual) mini card counted. At least, until I statred having
heat problems.
Sean Fahey
<snip>
> That reminds me, my external hard drive has it's own fan as well as two
> plugs on the back that are powered up at the same time you power up the
> HD. It quite frankly reminds me of the System Saver, though I never knew
<snip>
> The thing blows air downwards, so I figured it was safe to put on the
> IIGS case to aid the fan. Considering that it's been working fine for
> well over a decade, I'd have to say I was correct.
There were several SCSI enclosures that had similar design lines and color
to the GS - or more accurately, the the Mac SE, SE/30. It sounds to me like
you have one of these - what most people call a "zero footprint" drive. It's
meant to sit under a compact Mac like the SE or SE/30. There were dozens if
not hundreds of brands - some matched the design of the Mac more than others
but were all pretty much generic in nature. Apple had it's own line of ZFD's
(20/40/80/160SC), CD and Tape drives in that form factor but they cost a lot
more, hence the popularity of the generics.
Placing the drive on the case, I doubt is helping the GS in any way - the
convection vents are shaped for air flow out, not inward. Whether you set a
drive enclosure or a monitor on the GS case, it's important to leave a gap
and let the convection vents work. The GS monitor ships with a shim to prop
the monitor up - it's not just for obtaining a better viewing angle - it's
also there so the GS can breath.
I stress that the Kensington System Saver is the best practical cooling
option for the GS - and I personally would fall back to an external PC power
supply before I relied on an AE Conserver to cool a loaded GS. All of my
machines are seriously tricked out and practically all my slots have
something installed in them. Anything less than a good fan on them, and they
malfunction.
> In any case, according to the manual for my IIGS, the number of card
> before a fan was requried was 3, which was why I hadn't installed a fan
> at the same time as the PCT (I didn't get the SCSI card until later). I
> didn't think that video switch (or was it called color switch? I'd have
> to check the manual) mini card counted. At least, until I statred having
> heat problems.
Thanks for checking that. In replying to you, I've said some things that
weren't directly relevant to you but were for the benefit of anyone else
reading. Just general info/advice.
SlickRCBD
snip
I shoudl clarify that the hard drive is only 2 inches tall, and I don't
think it was meant to be under a toaster mac. I saw a bunch of Mac
Plusses my freshman year of high school (that were regulated to the old
spare computer room my sophmore year) with drives like what you're
talking about. It might have been designed to go on top of a Mac LC or
Mac II though. I'm not sure what other desktop macs where out in that
era besides the performa 405. Sorry, I didn't keep very good track of
the Mac market until the mid '90s since all I had was an Apple IIGS.
Michael J. Mahon
<snip>
> You have to understand Apple's thinking at the time: they didn't expect
> users to fill up all the slots. The main reason the slots existed were for
> flexibility and backwards compatibility to create marketing leverage. Apple
> wanted to make it easier for users to migrate and preserve their expensive
> peripheral investments. Apple really did anticipate all those II Plus and
> //e users to want to upgrade to the GS. There was also the huuuge peripheral
> aftermarket to take into account - getting rid of slots would have
> fundamentally changed the peripheral market and made a lot of
> people/companies mad. Anyway, back to the point, Apple engineers expected
> most users to rely on the built-in ports.
And they certainly didn't expect card designers to completely ignore
the per-slot power consumption specs--which many, and particularly
the TransWarp cards, do.
-michael
Music synthesis for 8-bit Apple II's!
Home page: http://members.aol.com/MJMahon/
"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it is seriously underused."
Roger Johnstone
> Sean Fahey wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> You have to understand Apple's thinking at the time: they didn't
>> expect users to fill up all the slots. The main reason the slots
>> existed were for flexibility and backwards compatibility to create
>> marketing leverage. Apple wanted to make it easier for users to
>> migrate and preserve their expensive peripheral investments. Apple
>> really did anticipate all those II Plus and //e users to want to
>> upgrade to the GS. There was also the huuuge peripheral aftermarket
>> to take into account - getting rid of slots would have fundamentally
>> changed the peripheral market and made a lot of people/companies mad.
>> Anyway, back to the point, Apple engineers expected most users to
>> rely on the built-in ports.
>
> And they certainly didn't expect card designers to completely ignore
> the per-slot power consumption specs--which many, and particularly
> the TransWarp cards, do.
I always wondered why the IIGS designers gave it the full seven slots.
It would have made more sense to me to have reduced it to four slots (
like the Apple III) and use the control panel to map each physical slot
to a slot address space. That would have maintained full compatibilty,
and have left enough room on the motherboard for four SIMM slots, and
enough room in the case for a built-in 3.5" floppy drive.
I know someone's going to argue that they need all their slots and wish
they had more :-P but most users never had more than one or two cards
installed in a IIGS.
--
Roger Johnstone, Invercargill, New Zealand
http://roger.geek.nz/
________________________________________________________________________
No Silicon Heaven? Preposterous! Where would all the calculators go?
Kryten, from the Red Dwarf episode "The Last Day"
SlickRCBD
works. As it stands, I have to choose between AppleTalk and the PC
Transporter and printer, since (1) I don't have a card in the printer
and I'm not sure if I can use AppleWorks 3.0 or The Print Shop IIGS with
an AppleTalk shared printer.
My situation is this:
Slot 1: Printer Port, sometimes used for AppleTalk to the Mac.
Slot 2: SCSI card for the HD
Slot 3: no card/built in 80 columns (I'm sure everybody is aware of the
slot 3 issues)
slot 4: built in mouse port. Set it to "your card" and I lose the mouse.
I think that GS/OS 6.X won't necessarily lose the mouse, but Print Shop
does.
Slot 5: 3.5" controler card for the HD drive
slot 6: built in firmware for the 5.25" drives
slot 7: PC Transporter card. Sometimes gets toggled to Appletalk, see above
There are two reasons the HD is in slot 2 instead of slot 7. Number one
is so that I can boot disks. Especially 5.25" disks. Number two is that
I have to toggle the thing for Appletalk, and I lose the PCT's RAM disk
when I do that. Though I do wonder if there would be an advantage to
putting the SCSI card in slot 5 and the 3.5" card in slot 2 for use with
ProDOS 8. I can't access everything even with version 2.0.3 from System
6. Would being able to have drive 3 and 4 on slot five help with the
partitions that don't get mapped, or would I only get to access four
partitions instead of the 6 ProDOS ones?
Roger Johnstone
Hold on though, I only count three cards there. My point was that if
Apple had allowed you to map each physical slot to a slot address you
would only need as many slots as you had cards.
For example you could have your SCSI card in slot A and then use the
control panel to map the card in slot A to the slot 2 address, or you
could change it to slot 5 without having to even open the IIGS.
The ROM 3 motherboard is better then the original IIGS, in that from GS/
OS you can use both a card and the built-in port at the same time, but
you'd still have fun trying to fill it with seven active cards without
losing a lot of functionality somewhere.
Ed Eastman
> My situation is this:
> Slot 1: Printer Port, sometimes used for AppleTalk to the Mac.
> Slot 2: SCSI card for the HD
> Slot 3: no card/built in 80 columns (I'm sure everybody is aware of the
> slot 3 issues)
> slot 4: built in mouse port. Set it to "your card" and I lose the mouse.
> I think that GS/OS 6.X won't necessarily lose the mouse, but Print Shop
> does.
> Slot 5: 3.5" controler card for the HD drive
> slot 6: built in firmware for the 5.25" drives
> slot 7: PC Transporter card. Sometimes gets toggled to Appletalk, see above
Since you'll probably RAREly at best ever use the PCT with the 5.25's,
move the PCT to slot 6. That will free up a slot. Personally I do this
with my HD as I RAREly use GSOS with my 5.25" drives. (My start-up slot
is 6.)
Just like I keep a Super Serial card in slot 2 and active for ADT. The
I am told that the Spectrum software directly accesses the modem on the
comm port so I don't have to switch it. (Although I've never tried
Spectrum and a modem. :)
Likewise I have a network card in slot 1 and I can switch back and forth
between LANceGS and the Appletalk at will.
Of course I have a HD that boots into ProDOS BASIC and runs a quick
little menu program that allows me to reboot at a given slot or Flip my
main OS folder around so I can boot several different versions of the
GSOS (with or without Appletalk, for instance.)
Thankx,
Ed
Jeff Blakeney
wrote:
>Hold on though, I only count three cards there. My point was that if
>Apple had allowed you to map each physical slot to a slot address you
>would only need as many slots as you had cards.
>
>For example you could have your SCSI card in slot A and then use the
>control panel to map the card in slot A to the slot 2 address, or you
>could change it to slot 5 without having to even open the IIGS.
>
>The ROM 3 motherboard is better then the original IIGS, in that from GS/
>OS you can use both a card and the built-in port at the same time, but
>you'd still have fun trying to fill it with seven active cards without
>losing a lot of functionality somewhere.
Well how about this setup?
Slot 1: Parallel interface
Slot 2: Ethernet card
Slot 3: Video Overlay Card or SecondSight VGA card
Slot 4: Accelerator (ZipGS or TranswarpGS)
Slot 5: 3.5" HDFD controller
Slot 6: Hard drive controller
Slot 7: Sound card
Memory Expansion Slot: 4 - 8 MB memory card
Slot 1 can be used for a serial, parallel or AppleTalk connection.
With certain software both the internal serial and the parallel
card might be able to be used with the control panel set to
"Your Card". I doubt the AppleTalk feature will continue to
work with the control panel set to "Your Card".
Slot 2 can be used for a serial, network or AppleTalk connection.
With certain software both the internal serial and the network
card might be able to be used with the control panel set to
"Your Card". I doubt the AppleTalk feature will continue to
work with the control panel set to "Your Card".
Slot 3 can be used for 80 column as well as other neat video stuff.
Both the 80 column and video features should work with the
control panel set to "Your Card".
Slot 4 can be used for a mouse and accelerator. Both the mouse and
the accelerator will work with the control panel set to
"Mouse Port". On the ROM 3 it should also work with the
control panel set to "Your Card".
Slot 5 can be used for the built in 3.5" controller as well as the
3.5" HDFD controller. You should only need the HDFD card
active as it will also control 800KB floppies so you can set
the control panel to "Your Card".
Slot 6 can be used for the built in 5.25" controller as well as the
hard drive controller. Most people do not need access to their
5.25" drives when running from their hard drive so you can set
the control panel to "Your Card" to use the hard drive or set
it to "Disk Port" to use 5.25" drives.
Slot 7 can be used for the built in AppleTalk as well as powering a
sound card with the control panel set to "AppleTalk". If the
sound card has its own sound digitizing hardware, you'd have to
set the control panel to "Your Card" to be able to digitize
sound.
The memory expansion slot just holds as much memory as you want or as
much as your power supply still has capacity to run. :-)
And no, I don't quite have this set up but I wish I did. :-)
--
Jeff Blakeney - Dean of the Apple II University in the
Apple II Community on Syndicomm.com
CUT the obvious from my address if you want to e-mail me
Roger Johnstone
> On 23 Oct 2005 06:27:45 GMT, Roger Johnstone <roj...@orcon.net.nz>
> wrote:
>
>>Hold on though, I only count three cards there. My point was that if
>>Apple had allowed you to map each physical slot to a slot address you
>>would only need as many slots as you had cards.
>>
>>For example you could have your SCSI card in slot A and then use the
>>control panel to map the card in slot A to the slot 2 address, or you
>>could change it to slot 5 without having to even open the IIGS.
>>
>>The ROM 3 motherboard is better then the original IIGS, in that from
>>GS/ OS you can use both a card and the built-in port at the same time,
>>but you'd still have fun trying to fill it with seven active cards
>>without losing a lot of functionality somewhere.
>
> Well how about this setup?
>
> Slot 1: Parallel interface
> Slot 2: Ethernet card
> Slot 3: Video Overlay Card or SecondSight VGA card
> Slot 4: Accelerator (ZipGS or TranswarpGS)
> Slot 5: 3.5" HDFD controller
> Slot 6: Hard drive controller
> Slot 7: Sound card
> Memory Expansion Slot: 4 - 8 MB memory card
<snip good explanation of each card's use>
> The memory expansion slot just holds as much memory as you want or as
> much as your power supply still has capacity to run. :-)
>
> And no, I don't quite have this set up but I wish I did. :-)
OK, that set of cards would do it :-) although the accellerator and most
sound cards only use the slots for power.
While I'm wishing for a IIGS with room for internal drives, I suppose I
may as well wish for the ROM 5 motherboard with built-in Ethernet,
better video, stereo sound, 1.4MB floppy support and SCSI. Oh, and
running at 16MHz! Then we wouldn't need so many slots...
Simon D. Williams
> Actually, _I_ need more for what I've got, due to the way a ROM 1 GS
> works. As it stands, I have to choose between AppleTalk and the PC
> Transporter and printer, since (1) I don't have a card in the printer
> and I'm not sure if I can use AppleWorks 3.0 or The Print Shop IIGS with
> an AppleTalk shared printer.
>
> My situation is this:
> Slot 1: Printer Port, sometimes used for AppleTalk to the Mac.
> Slot 2: SCSI card for the HD
> Slot 3: no card/built in 80 columns (I'm sure everybody is aware of the
> slot 3 issues)
> slot 4: built in mouse port. Set it to "your card" and I lose the mouse.
> I think that GS/OS 6.X won't necessarily lose the mouse, but Print Shop
> does.
> Slot 5: 3.5" controler card for the HD drive
> slot 6: built in firmware for the 5.25" drives
> slot 7: PC Transporter card. Sometimes gets toggled to Appletalk, see above
In my ROM 1 I put an SSC in slot one which allows me to use Appletalk and
print at the same time.
._____. SIMON WILLIAMS :::::::: LUDDITE ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED
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