IIc Flat Panel Display

[giorgio....@alice.it]

Ciao

I have found an old genuine Apple IIc flat panel display A2M4022.
Unfortunately the visibility is very problematic, nearly to zero.
Somebody knows any system to improve the visibility?
Thanks

Ciao

Giorgio

Apple II and Apple III forever !!!

[Sean Fahey]

On Saturday, June 2, 2012 12:55:25 AM UTC-5, (unknown) wrote:

> I have found an old genuine Apple IIc flat panel display A2M4022.
> Unfortunately the visibility is very problematic, nearly to zero.
> Somebody knows any system to improve the visibility?
> Thanks

Poor visibility performance is *normal* for A2M4022 unfortunately, even for 1984 tech.

[Wayne Stewart]

I have a couple. The only place where they're really easily readable
is outside in sunlight

[Michael J. Mahon]

Wayne Stewart <waynej...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have a couple. The only place where they're really easily readable
> is outside in sunlight

Has anyone ever opened one up and played with the LCD bias?

-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

[giorgio....@alice.it]

Il Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:45:47 -0500, Michael J. Mahon <mjm...@aol.com>
ha scritto:

>Wayne Stewart <waynej...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have a couple. The only place where they're really easily readable
>> is outside in sunlight
>
>Has anyone ever opened one up and played with the LCD bias?
>

And there are some schematics?

Thanks

[Michael J. Mahon]

It should be quite easy even without schematics.

But after posting, I realized that a panel of this vintage probably has a
bias adjustment, labelled "contrast" or something similar. If this control
can change the display from "off" to "black", then that's all that bias can
do. If it is all the way at one end for best display, then changing the
bias range could make a real improvement.

The next thing to try is more drive, but that's harder to do.

[Brian]

On Jun 2, 2:29 pm, Michael J. Mahon <mjma...@aol.com> wrote:
> <giorgio.morocu...@alice.it> wrote:
> > Il Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:45:47 -0500, Michael J. Mahon <mjma...@aol.com>
> > ha scritto:

>
> >> Wayne Stewart <waynejstew...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> I have a couple. The only place where they're really easily readable
> >>> is outside in sunlight
>
> >> Has anyone ever opened one up and played with the LCD bias?
>
> > And there are some schematics?
>
> > Thanks
>
> > Giorgio
>
> > Apple II and Apple III forever !!!
>
> It should be quite easy even without schematics.
>
> But after posting, I realized that a panel of this vintage probably has a
> bias adjustment, labelled "contrast" or something similar. If this control
> can change the display from "off" to "black", then that's all that bias can
> do. If it is all the way at one end for best display, then changing the
> bias range could make a real improvement.
>
> The next thing to try is more drive, but that's harder to do.
>
> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II:http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

Has anyone ever attempted to install backlighting on it similar to
other LCD flat screen hacks like the HP 100/200LX.

[David Schmenk]

The issue with the original Iic panel is its rarity and delicacy. What wold be nice is a way to build a modern version that everyone could get access to. I use a 7 inch LCD TV/monitor but those aren't good for 80 columns. If someone could convert the video connector port into VGA, much like the Video 7 Iic RGB converter....

Dave...

[Kevin Dady]

I use a smaller LCD/TV monitor, and it rocks for 80 columns, nothing I
would want to type my thesis on, but for color its almost as good text
quality wise, as I remember our monitor II being...

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.apple2/browse_thread/thread/bec717dd78e773e/59e433575f526afb?lnk=gst&q=audiovox#59e433575f526afb

As far as the video port on the IIC its, um well ... crap? as far as
relevant outputs you get composite sync, composite video, and the
shift register serial stream. The sync saves you a bit IF and thats a
BIG IF you can find a NTSC/PAL to RGB coder IC (I have a couple, works
pretty OK, you still need a near impossible to find NTSC compatible
RGB monitor (1985 multisync here) , and a even harder to find
converter chip).

The shift register output being a serial stream makes it somewhat easy
to capture the binary data into a buffer, and overlay that onto a VGA
signal keeping in mind its mono data, and you will need a beefy ass
MCU to keep up while generating the VGA display.

in all its a bunch of headache, the RGB setup is not much better than
your chi-co offerings with normal modern monitors, and I dont see a
mono only serial stream capture being worth while in the long run ...
best advice is to keep hunting the thrift stores for TV's and donate
them back if they suck.

[Apple2Steward]

"Michael J. Mahon" <mjm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:275318387360364776.2...@news.giganews.com...

I recalled (and located) a post by Beverly Cadieux to the Apple
II Mail Group in which she explained how she had improved
readability of the screen on the IIc LCD monitor by removing the
clear screen from the LCD display itself (2/17/2000):

"It is a plastic panel in the front, comparable to the glass
screen of a monitor. You pry open the case and weasel it out.
This plastic is thick and opaque, and makes the screen hard to
see, Removing it exposes a soft, pillow-like vinyl layer where
the display is fairly clear. A bright light and a certain
"stance" also helps you to see it more clearly.

When the //c is not in use, I lay the thick plastic panel back on
top of the vinyl as a dust cover."

I've not tried this.

Although I don't use these screens frequently, I think that the
C-Vue is more readable compared to the original Apple LCD.

[magnusfalkirk]

Here's a link to a couple pages I put together after I got a 5" Playstation LCD and hooked it up to my IIc using the composite output from the IIc.

http://blackfletch.freeservers.com/appleIIc.htm

80 column works on it as you can see from the Appleworks startup screen. Of course I don't know that I'd actually like to use it for word processing but it could be done.

Dean

[Sean Fahey]

On Saturday, June 2, 2012 10:16:57 PM UTC-5, David Schmenk wrote:

> If someone could convert the video connector port into VGA, much like the Video > 7 Iic RGB converter....

I have a couple of these adapters - http://silicium.org/g2k/ and they work well. I don't know if any more are available though. It's only downside IMO, is the lack of an enclosure, and I haven't found a kit box that's just right for it. I think a redesign could make it smaller, and possibly vertical, so that it could attach upright onto the back of the //c.

[Larry Glisson]

On Jun 3, 1:50 am, "Apple2Steward" <n...@none.net> wrote:
> "Michael J. Mahon" <mjma...@aol.com> wrote in messagenews:275318387360364776.2...@news.giganews.com...

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > <giorgio.morocu...@alice.it> wrote:
> >> Il Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:45:47 -0500, Michael J. Mahon

> >> <mjma...@aol.com>
> >> ha scritto:

There is a IIc Flat Panel Display listed on Ebay with a slightly
damaged screen cover. Otherwise it works and is in nice condition.
The auction will end June 11th, at 5am EST. Sorry to sound like a
spammer, but this is something special and worthy of attention in my
opinion. Search for A2M4022 or Apple IIc Flat Panel Display to locate
the auction. It was acquired (by me) as part of a private collection
of vintage Apple gear. The seller was relocating. From what I can
tell, an average of less than one of these per year is listed on Ebay
(more are sold for part/not working... I'm talking about actual
working models.) I suppose someone could swap out the screen cover
with one from a non-working unit. Hmm. I did not know it was
considered a "delicate" piece of hardware. Interesting.

[giorgio....@alice.it]

Il Sun, 3 Jun 2012 02:50:41 -0400, "Apple2Steward" <no...@none.net> ha
scritto:

>
>I recalled (and located) a post by Beverly Cadieux to the Apple
>II Mail Group in which she explained how she had improved
>readability of the screen on the IIc LCD monitor by removing the
>clear screen from the LCD display itself (2/17/2000):
>
>"It is a plastic panel in the front, comparable to the glass
>screen of a monitor. You pry open the case and weasel it out.
>This plastic is thick and opaque, and makes the screen hard to
>see, Removing it exposes a soft, pillow-like vinyl layer where
>the display is fairly clear. A bright light and a certain
>"stance" also helps you to see it more clearly.
>
>When the //c is not in use, I lay the thick plastic panel back on
>top of the vinyl as a dust cover."
>
>I've not tried this.
>
>Although I don't use these screens frequently, I think that the
>C-Vue is more readable compared to the original Apple LCD.
>
>

This is true! I have removed the plastic panel and now the visibility
is better, not very good, but better.

[giorgio....@alice.it]

Il Sat, 02 Jun 2012 16:29:17 -0500, Michael J. Mahon <mjm...@aol.com>

ha scritto:

><giorgio....@alice.it> wrote:
>> Il Sat, 02 Jun 2012 12:45:47 -0500, Michael J. Mahon <mjm...@aol.com>
>> ha scritto:
>>
>>> Wayne Stewart <waynej...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I have a couple. The only place where they're really easily readable
>>>> is outside in sunlight
>>>
>>> Has anyone ever opened one up and played with the LCD bias?
>>>
>> And there are some schematics?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Giorgio
>>
>>
>> Apple II and Apple III forever !!!
>
>It should be quite easy even without schematics.
>
>But after posting, I realized that a panel of this vintage probably has a
>bias adjustment, labelled "contrast" or something similar. If this control
>can change the display from "off" to "black", then that's all that bias can
>do. If it is all the way at one end for best display, then changing the
>bias range could make a real improvement.
>

Sorry, no trimmer or potentiometer on inside printed circuit.
The external contrast knob is already at maximum.

Thanks for your suggestion

[giorgio....@alice.it]

Il Sat, 02 Jun 2012 07:55:25 +0200, giorgio....@alice.it ha
scritto:

>Ciao
>
>I have found an old genuine Apple IIc flat panel display A2M4022.
>Unfortunately the visibility is very problematic, nearly to zero.
>Somebody knows any system to improve the visibility?
>Thanks
>

Here some phots before and after the "treatment":

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/61459305/FlatDisplay.zip

Thanks for all

[Michael J. Mahon]

If it's at maximum and the display is still improving when it hits the
stop, then it's a good candidate for a modification to improve the range of
adjustment.

This could be as easy as reducing the value of a resistor connected to the
pot or as hard as providing a DC voltage source a couple if volts higher
than the current voltage.

[giorgio....@alice.it]

Il Wed, 06 Jun 2012 01:50:10 -0500, Michael J. Mahon <mjm...@aol.com>
ha scritto:

...

>
>If it's at maximum and the display is still improving when it hits the
>stop, then it's a good candidate for a modification to improve the range of
>adjustment.
>
>This could be as easy as reducing the value of a resistor connected to the
>pot or as hard as providing a DC voltage source a couple if volts higher
>than the current voltage.
>

OK Michael.
As soon as I open the Display, I look at this resistor.

Many thanks

Ciao

[Mitchell Spector]

"Apple2Steward" <no...@none.net> wrote:

>Although I don't use these screens frequently, I think that the
>C-Vue is more readable compared to the original Apple LCD.

As far as comparison, I've never seen the Apple display,
but I do own a pair of C-Vues. First one I picked up locally
for $50 with an Apple IIc Plus in 1996, the second on eBay
for 99 cents in 2007.

I used the C-Vue quite a bit back in the late 90's. Despite
requiring direct sunlight from a nearby window (or a directly
pointed halogen lamp) the 80 columns text display was
*really* well-defined, clear and sharp. Even better than the
AppleColor RGB or Monitor II on my other II's at the time.
I used it with ProTERM to access comp.sys.apple2 back
in the day.

Though it was practically useless for graphics or anything
else, and it's poor visibility (without a light source) made it little
more than a novelty item. To this day I'm still missing the
plastic stands for both my C-Vue's, anyone have a spare?

I do recall the C-Vue had better clarity than the Apple
display, but it's difficult to imagine how visibility could get
much worse. Incidentally, if anyone wants to trade their
Apple LCD for one of my C-Vue's, I'm still willing. :)

Mitchell Spector

[Michael J. Mahon]

A strange design decision. If it is just a neutral density filter,
then the designers must have been thinking of it as a contrast enhancer,
which it would be if the panel were a source of light.

Since the panel works only by reflected light, a gray filter is really
useless, except for protection (in which case, it should have
been clear).

There are "gray-looking" filters in any LCD--the polarizers required to
make the LCD display visible at all, but evidently this gray filter is
not such a polarizer.

Circular polarizers are sometimes used to reduce specular reflections
from an underlying shiny surface, but that doesn't seem to apply either.

-michael

NadaNet 3.1 for Apple II parallel computing!
Home page: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon/

"The wastebasket is our most important design
tool--and it's seriously underused."

[Michael J. Mahon]

giorgio....@alice.it wrote:
> Il Sat, 02 Jun 2012 07:55:25 +0200, giorgio....@alice.it ha
> scritto:
>
>
>>Ciao
>>
>>I have found an old genuine Apple IIc flat panel display A2M4022.
>>Unfortunately the visibility is very problematic, nearly to zero.
>>Somebody knows any system to improve the visibility?
>>Thanks
>>
>
> Here some phots before and after the "treatment":
>
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/61459305/FlatDisplay.zip
>
> Thanks for all

That looks almost usable! ;-)

[giorgio....@alice.it]

Il Fri, 15 Jun 2012 10:55:33 -0700, "Michael J. Mahon"
<mjm...@aol.com> ha scritto:

>giorgio....@alice.it wrote:
>> Il Sat, 02 Jun 2012 07:55:25 +0200, giorgio....@alice.it ha
>> scritto:
>>
>>
>>>Ciao
>>>
>>>I have found an old genuine Apple IIc flat panel display A2M4022.
>>>Unfortunately the visibility is very problematic, nearly to zero.
>>>Somebody knows any system to improve the visibility?
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>
>> Here some phots before and after the "treatment":
>>
>> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/61459305/FlatDisplay.zip
>>
>> Thanks for all
>
>That looks almost usable! ;-)
>

This is only for my collection!
I use a good and modern LCD with composite input.
;-)

Ciao