Home-Brew IIGS Cooling Solution

[Joe Strosnider]

Call me crazy, but I'm thinking of building a custom cooling solution for my Apple IIgs. It would basically consist of:

- A mitred wood box made from 1x2 boards, brad nailed on the ends
- a thin wood panel on top and bottom, screwed in for easy removal.
- thin foam on the bottom panel for a solid seal
- a very quiet 120mm fan inside the box
- through-holes in the box for air to pass through (dremel/drilled)
- all powered by an external 12v wall-wart.
- when finished, painted to match the IIgs (good luck!)

It will sit right on top of the IIGs just like a Kensington. Should be cheaper than 3D printing or having a custom plastic box made somewhere in single quantity. Oh, and it would be fun too. I could pick something up on eBay I suppose, but where's the fun in that?

I want to make sure I place the fan in the right spot. Anyone out there with a Kensington System Saver IIGS care to measure the position of the fan and report back? Google tells me the fan in that is 17CFM. Anyone with a manual or specs out there who can corroborate that?

[Bill Garber]

"Joe Strosnider" <inanis....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:56bb2677-d62d-4585...@googlegroups.com...

> Call me crazy, but

Ok, you're 'crazy', but... Aren't we all, though? Using 30 year old
and 6502 based computers? I'd call that crazy in any society. 8>)

> I'm thinking of building a custom cooling solution for my Apple IIgs.

Whatever floats your boat... As Miyagi said, " If come from inside you "...

> It would basically consist of:
>
> - A mitred wood box made from 1x2 boards, brad nailed on the ends
> - a thin wood panel on top and bottom, screwed in for easy removal.
> - thin foam on the bottom panel for a solid seal
> - a very quiet 120mm fan inside the box
> - through-holes in the box for air to pass through (dremel/drilled)
> - all powered by an external 12v wall-wart.
> - when finished, painted to match the IIgs (good luck!)
>
> It will sit right on top of the IIGs just like a Kensington.

Important fact... Be sure that it draws out of, and doesn't blow into, it.

> Should be cheaper than 3D printing or having a custom plastic box
> made somewhere in single quantity. Oh, and it would be fun too.

The key word here is "fun". If you achieve enjoyment from what you
are doing, then you have success, especially if you've reached your goal.

> I could pick something up on eBay I suppose, but where's the fun in that?

Unless they guarantee that it works, and works good, you'd probably end
up rebuilding it and adding a new fan to the eBay item, anyway. Might as
well continue on with your present plans. You might be able to build more
and sell wooden box System Savers. I'd buy one just for the bragging
rights.

> I want to make sure I place the fan in the right spot. Anyone out there
> with
> a Kensington System Saver IIGS care to measure the position of the fan
> and report back? Google tells me the fan in that is 17CFM. Anyone with
> a manual or specs out there who can corroborate that?

I have a bunch, but to dig one out and measure it, well, that is not on my
To-Do list. If I did that, then I'd have to rebuild and sell them on eBay.
I doubt that I'd very likely recoup my rebuilding costs. The fans, and the
cleaning time, etc.....

Bill Garber * http://www.sepa-electronics.com *

[Charlie]

On 2/25/2016 10:44 PM, Joe Strosnider wrote:
> Call me crazy, but I'm thinking of building a custom cooling solution for my Apple IIgs. It would basically consist of:
>
> - A mitred wood box made from 1x2 boards, brad nailed on the ends
> - a thin wood panel on top and bottom, screwed in for easy removal.
> - thin foam on the bottom panel for a solid seal
> - a very quiet 120mm fan inside the box
> - through-holes in the box for air to pass through (dremel/drilled)
> - all powered by an external 12v wall-wart.
> - when finished, painted to match the IIgs (good luck!)
>
> It will sit right on top of the IIGs just like a Kensington. Should be cheaper than 3D printing or having a custom plastic box made somewhere in single quantity. Oh, and it would be fun too. I could pick something up on eBay I suppose, but where's the fun in that?
>
> I want to make sure I place the fan in the right spot. Anyone out there with a Kensington System Saver IIGS care to measure the position of the fan and report back?

Kensington System Saver IIgs Model #62314
Center of the fan from the front panel is about 4 3/8". Center of the
fan to the left side (over IIgs power supply) is about 3 1/4".

> Google tells me the fan in that is 17CFM. Anyone with a manual or specs out there who can corroborate that?

That is what it said on the box.

Charlie

[Michael J. Mahon]

Exact positioning shouldn't matter much, since the box becomes a low
pressure manifold.

--
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com

[Joe Strosnider]

Thanks for all the input, measurements, confirmations and encouragement!

As far as selling them... hmm. I'm using improvised tools right now. If I can acquire the right tools put together an assembly line process, then maybe...

[Joe Strosnider]

So, here's what I've come up with.

If I make one of these for myself, I don't really have any startup costs - everything is in materials. This is because I can use the tools and scrap wood I have and not worry about quality so much as long as it just works.

However, if I want to produce these for other people, I'll have to make a serious investment in tools to ensure proper quality, and based on all my startup costs, it looks like I would have to make and sell somewhere around 30 of these things to break even.

If I do this, I'll probably just make the frames and leave the electrical part up to the user, just for liability sake.

I seriously doubt there's 30+ people interested in this...

[Hugh Hood]

in article 56bb2677-d62d-4585...@googlegroups.com, Joe
Strosnider at inanis....@gmail.com wrote on 2/25/16 9:44 PM:

>
> I want to make sure I place the fan in the right spot. Anyone out there with a
> Kensington System Saver IIGS care to measure the position of the fan and
> report back? Google tells me the fan in that is 17CFM. Anyone with a manual or
> specs out there who can corroborate that?
>

Joe:

I've replaced several fans in the Kensington System Saver IIGS's over the
years, and have experimented with (3) different CFM rates using fans of the
same physical size as the original. You may find my experience with these
fans helpful when you design and construct your own home-brew solution.

I'll list the info below from Mouser Electronics, but, in a nutshell, I've
found that the 27 CFM fan is the best replacement for the original 17/20 CFM
fan.

It flows noticeably more air than does the original fan, and its noise level
is perfectly acceptable. I've also used the 35 CFM replacement, and while it
moves a lot of air, it is so noisy that it's annoying, and thus, I really
don't ever use it.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.





Hugh Hood





MOUSER FANS:

A. Original Low Power/Noise System Saver IIGS Fan

5912-8830N ebmpapst AC TubeAxial Fan
- 80mm x 80mm x 38mm
(3.15" x 3.15" x 1.5")
- 115 VAC; 8 watts; 12" leads
- Sintec bearings
- 21.2 CFM; 21 dB noise; 1950 rpm



B. Mid Power/Noise System Saver IIGS Fan

5912-8800N ebmpapst AC TubeAxial Fan
- 80mm x 80mm x 38mm
(3.15" x 3.15" x 1.5")
- 115 VAC; 11 watts; 12" leads
- Sintec bearings
- 27.7 CFM; 28 dB noise; 2500 rpm



C. High Power/Noise System Saver IIGS Fan

5912-8500N ebmpapst AC TubeAxial Fan
- 80mm x 80mm x 38mm
(3.15" x 3.15" x 1.5")
- 115 VAC; 11 watts; 12" leads
- Sintec bearings
- 35.9 CFM; 34 dB noise; 3200 rpm

[Warren Ernst]

You know, back in the day an 80mm DC fan was sort of the defacto norm, but thanks to the PC modding community, there are jillions of fan sizes that might be more appropriate for something brand new.

For example a low-rpm 120mm fan would move more air and yet be quieter, and since you are making your own enclosure, you could put in pretty much any size you want. A two-minute search on amazon found the Antec TrueQuiet 120 120mm Case Cooling Fan with these specs:

Low 600 RPM, 8.9 dBA, 0.6m³ / min (21.5 CFM) / High 1000 RPM, 19.9 dBA, 1.0m³ / min (35.8 CFM)

If I were building a new enclosure from scratch, I'd be using something like this.

-Warr

[Joe Strosnider]

Thanks all for the input on the fan. I've already researched that and decided 120mm is going to be the best airflow/noise option.

See original post: - a very quiet 120mm fan inside the box

:)

My choice of fan (personally) would be a Noctua NF-S12B redux-700 Fan. It's expensive, but -quiet-. 33cfm at 6.9dB(A)

[Hugh Hood]

in article dad993ad-d223-4f11...@googlegroups.com, Joe
Strosnider at inanis....@gmail.com wrote on 2/29/16 4:58 PM:

Joe:

Sorry, I missed the part about your wanting to use a larger 120mm fan. It
appears the one you mention is a great choice - high flow and low noise.

It also appears that I overlooked that you are powering it all from a 12
volt wall wart, so the 120 volt fans I listed also miss the mark.

A perfect two for two! :-)





Hugh Hood

[Delfs]

http://enews.jameco.com/q/Tus-PST4B7Od4BsgzrqB18zy_vBv08OVqK-X7v7pBZeidl1Qsd7sJf9LB

Jameco save when you buy fans just rolled through my e-mail. May be a good time for folks to stock up.

Thanks, Ed

[joltenjoe]

Joe,

Your question about proper fan placement jogged my memory a little.
I had a system saver in a box someplace. I remember the foam rubber finally rotting and making a gooey mess.
So, I toyed with the internal fan idea (Apple had a noisy somewhat useless concept) and bought one from a company that still sold some ][ parts 5-6 years ago. It was about $10. Steve buggie also had some for sale. He may also have a power supply mod.

I think the revised idea was to use the internal fan to blow on the cards and the system saver would blow on the power supply. So if you are brewing your own, I wonder if moving the fan or using 2 might be a nice revision. I am not an engineer so others can comment.

If I was more inclined, my pipe dream was to move the power supply out of the GS into a box that could also pull air out of the hopefully now cooler iigs case. I never did find a flat power supply like I was envisioning (I've since seen the littlejohn Solution). I was thinking about a jameco or radio shack project box that would hold the new supply and have fans on the bottom to blow into or suck out of the iigs.

[Warren Ernst]

You know, you could get a Buggie Power Supply from Stephen; it is an old AT power supply that sits on the floor and connects to the Apple mainboard via a 6 foot pigtail. That'll take almost all the heat out of the case and supply you with more power as well.

-Warr

[Michael J. Mahon]

If the power supply were only 50% efficient, half of the heat would be from
the supply and half from the computer.

Since modern switch-mode power supplies are typically better than 80%
efficient, I'd expect that only about 20% of the heat inside the case is
from the power supply.

[joltenjoe]

That was the power supply mod I was referring to although I think he is out of them he still has some of the 6 foot pigtails on eBay right now.

My idea back when was to keep the power supply in the box on top of the iigs and use it to power the fans and system board and maybe the monitor via pass through like the system saver did. I assumed that even with the power supply out, that box would still cook an egg if a transwarp was present so I'd still need to push some air into it.

Maybe I should just find that system saver box! I just saw eBay listing asking $199 for one with the same foam rubber rot I had. Who buys these things for that much?

[joltenjoe]

There is the engineer's keen eye and comment. I may lurk but I learn so much just from reading everyone's comments.

I didn't realize it was that efficient. I knew the big pitch by jobs was that it was the greatest thing since..... However I assumed even with the quick cycles it would still generate more heat on its own than the components that drew upon it.

Perhaps it was all hype:

http://www.righto.com/2012/02/apple-didnt-revolutionize-power.html?m=1

[Joe Strosnider]

Good comments all.

1) the PS is a large part of the heat, but folks with stacked systems and a TWGS are more worried about cards perhaps?
2) yeah, better PS means less heat (and cleaner power!)

In the end, a better PS combined with a system cooler is always the best option.

The way the GS is designed, I think it makes the most sense to draw air out of the case with the fan, rather than blow it into the case where it can just stagnate inside. Anyone care to comment on that assumption?

If we focus on card heat and not PS heat, then the fan placement should probably hover somewhere around slot 3/4 - most likely place for an accelerator card too.

Another focus of mine is to modify the system itself as little as possible. If I can pop a box on top of it and magic happens, then I'd rather choose that route instead of wiring some fan inside the machine.

[Bill Garber]

"Joe Strosnider" <inanis....@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:786ef012-6c8a-48f2...@googlegroups.com...

> Good comments all.
>
> 1) the PS is a large part of the heat, but folks with stacked systems
> and a TWGS are more worried about cards perhaps?

Cards do create a certain amount of heat, and the more cards you
have installed, the more heat you'll accrue.

>2) yeah, better PS means less heat (and cleaner power!) In the end,
> a better PS combined with a system cooler is always the best option.

I don't have a problem with heat in mine, as I run them open air. The lids
are off when they are in operation, and I have air conditioning in the
summer.

> The way the GS is designed, I think it makes the most sense to draw air
> out of the case with the fan, rather than blow it into the case where it
> can
> just stagnate inside. Anyone care to comment on that assumption?

As far as I knew, the system savers always draw air out of the Apple,
no matter which model they are. Not sure which way the air flows with
the fans that attach to the side of the power supply, and I should use the
one I got from Steve Buggie, even in the one that has no lid on it. My PS
is the 200 Watt supply from Reactive Micro (Henry Courbis). They are
excellent, by the way.

> If we focus on card heat and not PS heat, then the fan placement should
> probably hover somewhere around slot 3/4 - most likely place for an
> accelerator card too.

Except that the IIgs lid has no vents at slots 3 and 4. Also, if you have
the RFI shields installed in there, then you have even more area blocked.

> Another focus of mine is to modify the system itself as little as
> possible.
> If I can pop a box on top of it and magic happens, then I'd rather
> choose that route instead of wiring some fan inside the machine.

I agree, but there is a 12vdc terminal already existing in there for a fan.
It is directly between the RGB Video port, and the Disk Drive port on
the back of the motherboard.

[joltenjoe]

http://m.ebay.com/itm/APPLE-IIgs-gs-GS-SUPER-FAN-DC-12V-INTERNAL-COOLING-FAN-NEW-9-00-s-h-/221997833496

I believe this just plugs right into the motherboard 12v fan connector. I did not think these were strong enough to be the only solution and I think Apple gave up on their own yielding perhaps to the likes of the system saver and that most iigs rigs didn't have 7 fully populated slots. heck, didn't the mark twain only have 5 slots?

Yes I do think the system saver sucks air out but I wonder how well after the foam rots. I may try some weather stripping to replace it.

Anyway, if little power iigs or flip go back on sale then perhaps I can resume my pipe dream and plop in a PICO 200 watt PSU either inside the GS case or in a box sitting on top and then I can wire fans galore. Maybe a Binford 3000

[Steven Hirsch]

On 03/03/2016 12:35 AM, joltenjoe wrote:
> http://m.ebay.com/itm/APPLE-IIgs-gs-GS-SUPER-FAN-DC-12V-INTERNAL-COOLING-FAN-NEW-9-00-s-h-/221997833496
>
> I believe this just plugs right into the motherboard 12v fan connector. I
> did not think these were strong enough to be the only solution and I think
> Apple gave up on their own yielding perhaps to the likes of the system
> saver and that most iigs rigs didn't have 7 fully populated slots. heck,
> didn't the mark twain only have 5 slots?

I have found the little internal fans to be about 1/4" short of worthless.
All they do is move hot air around inside the case. As ungainly as they look,
the top-mounted system saver style devices are very effective at preventing
internal temperature build up.