DOS 3.3 programs on a IIgs?
Koichi Takagi
I have some old DOS 3.3 disks from my //c that I want to use on this
super-duper IIgs. Some have a "hello" program.
What I do now is:
Boot the GS in GS System 6.01 (off the Focus HD in Slot 7)
Go to the control panel and change it to boot from Slot 6.
Restart from the floppy, run my program
When I'm done, press ctrl-opt-power to restart to the Control Panel
Change it to boot from "Scan" so it starts up from the HD.
There's got to be a better way?
Double-clicking programs on the floppies from the GS finder is not usually
successful, and I still can't quit from the ones that do work back to
GS/OS.
Thanks to everyone that helped me get this far, by the way, and for the
great FAQ's!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Koichi Takagi WWW: http://www.u.arizona.edu/~ktakagi
Sergeant of Marines email: kta...@u.arizona.edu
Systems Engineering phone: (520) 791-0847
Nathan Mates
In article <ktakagi-ya0240800...@news.goodnet.com>,
Koichi Takagi <kta...@u.arizona.edu> wrote:
>What I do now is:
>Boot the GS in GS System 6.01 (off the Focus HD in Slot 7)
>Go to the control panel and change it to boot from Slot 6.
>Restart from the floppy, run my program
>When I'm done, press ctrl-opt-power to restart to the Control Panel
>Change it to boot from "Scan" so it starts up from the HD.
Download and install Eric Shepherd's 'ProBoot'
(http://www.sheppyware.ml.org/gsos/index.html is the preferred site).
With that installed on your HD, holding down open apple on boot pulls
up a menu allowing you to boot off any other drive.
That program is by the same person who ported Wolf 3D to the GS,
and had many harsh words with rubywanker here over an OS bug,
rubywanker's inability to follow simple directions like "email the
author first if there's a problem, don't assume csa2 is populated by
programmers after pirated like rubywanker and such ilk have turned it
into a wasteland." Support legitimate Apple II programmers, and get
rid of the pirating jerks who want the programmers gone.
Nathan Mates
--
<*> Nathan Mates http://www.visi.com/~nathan/ <*>
# What are the facts? Again and again and again-- what are the _facts_?
# Shun wishful thinking, avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors
# think-- what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? -R.A. Heinlein
Pim Blokland
Koichi Takagi wrote:
>
> I have some old DOS 3.3 disks from my //c that I want to use on this
> super-duper IIgs. Some have a "hello" program.
The quickest way is to power up your GS and press Ctrl-Reset to go to
the Basic prompt. (You may have to press Reset several times, as the
machine sometimes thinks that you actually mean Ctrl-Apple-Reset. Which
you don't.)
Then from Basic, type PR#6 to boot the flop.
When you're done, you can simply press Ctrl-Apple-Reset to boot into
GS/OS again.
Pim Blokland
when replying by e-mail, replace the DOT in my name with a dot
and for all you Christians out there, remember:
"Thou shalt not call thy neighbour an ass; nor an ox."
David Empson
Koichi Takagi <kta...@u.arizona.edu> wrote:
> I have some old DOS 3.3 disks from my //c that I want to use on this
> super-duper IIgs. Some have a "hello" program.
>
> What I do now is:
> Boot the GS in GS System 6.01 (off the Focus HD in Slot 7)
> Go to the control panel and change it to boot from Slot 6.
> Restart from the floppy, run my program
> When I'm done, press ctrl-opt-power to restart to the Control Panel
> Change it to boot from "Scan" so it starts up from the HD.
>
> There's got to be a better way?
At least two solutions come to mind:
1. Use DOS Mounter, if it is will work with the program.
DOS Mounter lets you set up disk images of 140K DOS 3.3 disks, and
"boot" them as if they were ProDOS applications. It works best on a
IIgs, because there is a reasonably clean method of quitting from DOS to
return to GS/OS.
The main catch is that the program must be able to work with standard
DOS 3.3 running in its usual $9600-$BFFF region, and the program must
not touch the language card or auxiliary memory.
2. Use my QUITTER.SYSTEM program (freeware).
There are two methods here:
(a) If you are frequently booting directly into ProDOS-8, with a need to
boot other slots on occasion, then set up your hard drive to boot into
ProDOS-8 with QUITTER.SYSTEM as the startup application. From there,
you can launch a renamed copy of GS/OS's PRODOS file if you want to use
GS/OS. You can also boot another slot from QUITTER's menu by pressing
the number key corresponding to the slot.
(b) You will need System 6.0.1 for this one. If you are mostly using
GS/OS, but occasionally want to boot into ProDOS-8 or other slots, then
leave the GS/OS installation alone, except making sure QUITTER.SYSTEM is
the first .SYSTEM file in the root directory. If you want to run
ProDOS-8 without GS/OS, or boot another slot, then shut down GS/OS,
restart and press the '8' key to go directly into ProDOS-8.
QUITTER.SYSTEM will be launched, and you can select your desired program
or slot from there.
A third solution (which may be cleaner) is TAIFUNBOOT. I've never used
it, because I'm quite happy with my own program. :-)
--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz
Snail mail: P.O. Box 27-103, Wellington, New Zealand
Koichi Takagi
In article <I_ZW.22$3k7....@ptah.visi.com>, nat...@visi.com (Nathan
Mates) wrote:
> Download and install Eric Shepherd's 'ProBoot'
>(http://www.sheppyware.ml.org/gsos/index.html is the preferred site).
>With that installed on your HD, holding down open apple on boot pulls
>up a menu allowing you to boot off any other drive.
So, there's no way to run DOS 3.3 programs out of the GS finder?
dalt...@capital.edu
In article <ktakagi-ya0240800...@news.goodnet.com>,
kta...@u.arizona.edu (Koichi Takagi) wrote:
>
>
> I have some old DOS 3.3 disks from my //c that I want to use on this
> super-duper IIgs. Some have a "hello" program.
>
> What I do now is:
> Boot the GS in GS System 6.01 (off the Focus HD in Slot 7)
> Go to the control panel and change it to boot from Slot 6.
> Restart from the floppy, run my program
> When I'm done, press ctrl-opt-power to restart to the Control Panel
> Change it to boot from "Scan" so it starts up from the HD.
>
> There's got to be a better way?
> successful, and I still can't quit from the ones that do work back to
> GS/OS.
>
> Thanks to everyone that helped me get this far, by the way, and for the
> great FAQ's!
Kludgy method:
Type in the following Applesoft BASIC program:
10 PRINT CHR$(4);"PR#6"
And save it as BOOT6. You could write a similar program for BOOT5.
Then you can just double-click on BOOT6...wait for ProDOS-8 to load, then wait
for BASIC.SYSTEM to load, then wait for your one-liner to load, then watch as
your floppy drive boots.
Slightly less kludgy method:
Write a SYS16 program, BOOT6.S16, containing the line...
$00/2000: JMP $00C600
As I am not presently proficient in 65816 (shame on me!) I can't give you the
details of writing that one. And it breaks all the usual rules of GS/OS
programming.
Least kludgy method:
Obtain a copy of Eric Shepherd's ProBOOT. Once configured, hold the Apple key
while your system boots, then you can just hit a key to boot the floppy.
--Dave Althoff, ][.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
The Silicon Knight
In article <ktakagi-ya0240800...@news.goodnet.com>,
kta...@u.arizona.edu says...
Mates) wrote:
>
> So, there's no way to run DOS 3.3 programs out of the GS finder?
>
3.3 programs from a hard disk or 3.5" floppies. As of version 2.2 of DOS
Launcher the program is "Freeware". According to the Read.me file that
came with it, Andrew Roughan is currently maintaining the source code.
The file lists his email address as:
I don't know if the address is still good, give it a try. I downloaded
the DOS 3.3 Launcher from Genie a couple of years ago, it should still be
there. You might also try Delphi, or any of the FTP sites (Asimov,
Ground, etc.). The program requires that you copy the 5.25 disks to
images, so Copy protected software will not work, deprotected
software will though.
Rubywand
Koichi Takagi writes ...
>
> I have some old DOS 3.3 disks from my //c that I want to use on this
> super-duper IIgs. Some have a "hello" program.
>
> What I do now is:
> Boot the GS in GS System 6.01 (off the Focus HD in Slot 7)
> Go to the control panel and change it to boot from Slot 6.
> Restart from the floppy, run my program
> When I'm done, press ctrl-opt-power to restart to the Control Panel
> Change it to boot from "Scan" so it starts up from the HD.
>
> There's got to be a better way?
> Double-clicking programs on the floppies from the GS finder is not usually
> successful, and I still can't quit from the ones that do work back to
> GS/OS.
To run DOS stuff I usually just get to the Applesoft prompt (e.g.
double-click Basic.System on the Finder) and enter PR#6. Dave Althoff's
idea of running a program which does the PR#6 is even easier. One way to
get back to the Finder is to do a PR#7 (if your hard disk is in Slot 7)
from the Applesoft prompt-- i.e. you need to reboot.
The explanation for all this bother is that DOS 3.3 and numerous
variants are not really supported by the GS OS. Probably, this is just
as well. The chief motivation for full support would be running old DOS
games, etc. from hard disk or Zip disk; yet, quite a few old "DOS 3.3"
wares bypass standard DOS file routines when writing to disk. Were DOS
3.3 fully functional from the Finder, many users would be virtually
certain to end up with trashed hard drives.
Actually, there is another way to run DOS 3.3 stuff on your GS
which can be very convenient. Several years ago Roger Wagner, Inc.
released "SoftSwitch" by Ken Kashmarek. It is a Classic Desk Accessory
which lets you 'capture' a running 128k or smaller program and Save it.
SS is especially nice for playing old adventure games like Alternate
Reality: The Dungeon and Wizardry V because you can quickly revert back
to a Saved situation.
Rubywand
Willie Yeo
The Silicon Knight (rca...@mindspring.com) wrote:
: John MacLean wrote a program called DOS 3.3 Launcher which will run DOS
: 3.3 programs from a hard disk or 3.5" floppies. As of version 2.2 of DOS
: Launcher the program is "Freeware". According to the Read.me file that
: came with it, Andrew Roughan is currently maintaining the source code.
: The file lists his email address as:
: I don't know if the address is still good, give it a try.
If that email address doesn't work, give me a whirl. I will ring
him up and speak to him |8)
Willie Yeo
Koichi Takagi (kta...@u.arizona.edu) wrote:
: So, there's no way to run DOS 3.3 programs out of the GS finder?
Read Silicon Knight's followup on this one.
I just want to point out that I think DOS 3.3 Launcher does not
allow *ALL* DOS 3.3 programs to be launched. I remember some of the
programs being unable to be DOS 3.3 Launcherised. And I don't think it do
protected diskettes or modified DOS 3.3 / non-DOS 3.3 compliant programs
or requires to boot from the disk.
But I guess, DOS 3.3 Launcher runs fine with quite a number of
programs.
Supertimer
kta...@u.arizona.edu (Koichi Takagi) wrote:
>I have some old DOS 3.3 disks from my //c that I want to use on this
>super-duper IIgs. Some have a "hello" program.
>
>What I do now is:
>Boot the GS in GS System 6.01 (off the Focus HD in Slot 7)
>Go to the control panel and change it to boot from Slot 6.
>Restart from the floppy, run my program
>When I'm done, press ctrl-opt-power to restart to the Control Panel
>Change it to boot from "Scan" so it starts up from the HD.
>
>There's got to be a better way?
>Double-clicking programs on the floppies from the GS finder is not usually
>successful, and I still can't quit from the ones that do work back to
>GS/OS.
Koichi, after reading the "can't do it" followups by the so-called
"experts," it is easy to think that there IS no better way....but there
is.
Everybody ignored the fact that you have a Focus drive, so I went
to the horses mouth (Alltech Electronics) and found that the this
drive supports DOS 3.3!
Follow this link http://www.allelec.com/aplfiles.htm and get a copy
of FocusDOS 3.3 V1.0....guess what it does? You can set up a
partition where you can have over 100 DOS 3.3 disk images that
can be lauched from the Finder. It is supposed to be better than
DOS 3.3 Launcher because the disks are not just files....
Nathan Mates
In article <ktakagi-ya0240800...@news.goodnet.com>,
Koichi Takagi <kta...@u.arizona.edu> wrote:
>So, there's no way to run DOS 3.3 programs out of the GS finder?
Not easily. Best chance of doing so is if these are BASIC programs
that follow enough of the rules and restrictions that it'l run under
ProDOS without work (or a little). DOS 3.3 is a completely different
OS from Prodos 8 or GS/OS, and was never designed or updated to run
"under" another. DOS 3.3 always thinks it's just booted the system
cold, and has no real concept of 'exiting' or peaceful coexistance.
Supertimer
nat...@visi.com (Nathan Mates) wrote:
>>So, there's no way to run DOS 3.3 programs out of the GS finder?
>
> Not easily. Best chance of doing so is if these are BASIC programs
>that follow enough of the rules and restrictions that it'l run under
>ProDOS without work (or a little). DOS 3.3 is a completely different
>OS from Prodos 8 or GS/OS, and was never designed or updated to run
>"under" another. DOS 3.3 always thinks it's just booted the system
>cold, and has no real concept of 'exiting' or peaceful coexistance.
Some binary programs also run from ProDOS 8. I just write a simple
BASIC program like "10 ? CHR$(4);"-DIGDUG" and save it as
DIGDUG.START....then I can just double-click on the DIGDUG.START
BASIC program to run DIGDUG (a DOS 3.3 binary program converted
to ProDOS BIN).
Many but not all DOS 3.3 binary games can be converted this way.
QBURT and MOON.PATROL are two examples that work. I think
many of the Atarisoft titles will work too....
DEFENDER is one title that refuses to work.
For those that do work, you can easily make them Finder launchable,
if not quittable to Finder...
Jeff Blakeney
On 14 Apr 1998 06:10:21 GMT, super...@aol.com (Supertimer) wrote:
>Some binary programs also run from ProDOS 8. I just write a simple
>BASIC program like "10 ? CHR$(4);"-DIGDUG" and save it as
>DIGDUG.START....then I can just double-click on the DIGDUG.START
>BASIC program to run DIGDUG (a DOS 3.3 binary program converted
>to ProDOS BIN).
>
>Many but not all DOS 3.3 binary games can be converted this way.
>QBURT and MOON.PATROL are two examples that work. I think
>many of the Atarisoft titles will work too....
>
>DEFENDER is one title that refuses to work.
>
>For those that do work, you can easily make them Finder launchable,
>if not quittable to Finder...
I wrote a program called Selector (v1.0 is out there on the net
somewhere) that allows you to run DOS 3.3 programs that you've
converted to ProDOS disks. The benefit it gives is that certain
programs try to load themselves into or right through the text screen
memory which ProDOS has marked as being in use. This results in a "NO
BUFFERS AVAILABLE" message.
Selector allows you to tell ProDOS that the text screen memory is
available before launching a program so that those programs will also
work under ProDOS. A reboot after doing this is HIGHLY recommended
due to the fact that the screen holes will be scrambled after loading
a program like this.
However, it doesn't let you quit from most DOS 3.3 programs, because
they never had quit options programmed into them, so this isn't much
of a problem. I have Selector set up as the STARTUP program on a 3.5"
floppy so that I can just reboot and return to Selector.
The part of Selector that does its stuff is just a single line of
BASIC which I can't remember off the top of my head. Just download
the program and take a look, it will be a poke to 48xxx or 49xxx.
I also wrote about this technique in an article in II Alive magazine.
I can't remember what issue at present but I sure Jeff Hurlburt would
know or could find out.
=== I've had enough SPAM. Cut the obvious from my address to email me. ===
Supertimer
CUTj...@bconnex.net (Jeff Blakeney) wrote:
Jeff, thanks for the information! As you surmised, the programs
that don't work with the method I wrote about give a "NO BUFFERS
AVAILABLE" message....
I can't seem to find the Selector program on the net. Any idea
where I should look? I am very interested because there are still
some very old non-GS II+ era games that I play around with just
for kicks...and now they are a hassle to run because my 5.25"
drive is dead...
Rubywand
Jeff Blakeney writes ...
>
> On 14 Apr 1998 06:10:21 GMT, super...@aol.com (Supertimer) wrote:
>
> >Some binary programs also run from ProDOS 8. I just write a simple
> >BASIC program like "10 ? CHR$(4);"-DIGDUG" and save it as
> >DIGDUG.START....then I can just double-click on the DIGDUG.START
> >BASIC program to run DIGDUG (a DOS 3.3 binary program converted
> >to ProDOS BIN).
> >
>
> I wrote a program called Selector (v1.0 is out there on the net
> somewhere) that allows you to run DOS 3.3 programs that you've
> converted to ProDOS disks. The benefit it gives is that certain
> programs try to load themselves into or right through the text screen
> memory which ProDOS has marked as being in use. This results in a "NO
> BUFFERS AVAILABLE" message.
>
>
> I also wrote about this technique in an article in II Alive magazine.
Neat article; it was in the Spring, 1996 issue.
What I'll do is email you a copy of the text.
Rubywand
Koichi Takagi
Thanks for all the replies!
No one best method, I take it.
How do you convert a DOS 3.3 disk to ProDOS files?
Pim Blokland
Koichi Takagi wrote:
> How do you convert a DOS 3.3 disk to ProDOS files?
Just read it in? The Finder does recognize all DOS 3.3 filetypes, so if
you copy files, conversion will be done automatically. Or use a program
such as Copy ][ Plus. But that's not your question?
Pim Blokland
if replying by e-mail, replace the DOT in my name with a dot
if spamming, use another addres, such as rhu...@fcc.gov
Tom Zuchowski
> kta...@u.arizona.edu (Koichi Takagi) wrote:
>
> >I have some old DOS 3.3 disks from my //c that I want to use on this
> >super-duper IIgs. Some have a "hello" program.
> >
> >What I do now is:
> >Boot the GS in GS System 6.01 (off the Focus HD in Slot 7)
> >Go to the control panel and change it to boot from Slot 6.
> >Restart from the floppy, run my program
> >When I'm done, press ctrl-opt-power to restart to the Control Panel
> >Change it to boot from "Scan" so it starts up from the HD.
> >
> >There's got to be a better way?
> >Double-clicking programs on the floppies from the GS finder is not
usually
> >successful, and I still can't quit from the ones that do work back to
> >GS/OS.
My goodness. Here's what I do:
Boot the GS into ProDOS (hold down the 8 during bootup-takes just
seconds).
Put DOS 3.3 disk in 5.25 drive.
Type PR#6
When done, I just type PR#7 (my GSOS boot drive).
Tom Zuchowski
The best way is to use Copy II+.
However, this will ONLY work if it is legal to change all the DOS 3.3
filesnames to ProDOS-legal names.
Tom Z
Koichi Takagi <kta...@u.arizona.edu> wrote in article
<ktakagi-ya0240800...@news.goodnet.com>...
>
> Thanks for all the replies!
>
> No one best method, I take it.
>
> How do you convert a DOS 3.3 disk to ProDOS files?
>
Supertimer
kta...@u.arizona.edu (Koichi Takagi) wrote:
>Thanks for all the replies!
>
>No one best method, I take it.
>
>How do you convert a DOS 3.3 disk to ProDOS files?
Like I said earlier, since you have a Focus Drive, Alltech's Focus
DOS 3.3 will load your disks onto your hard drive.
http://www.allelec.com/aplfiles.htm is where you will find Focus
DOS 3.3 version 1.0...
You did say you have a Focus drive.
Rubywand
Supertimer writes ...
Thanks for the recommendation. I downloaded the program and gave it
a try.
Evidently, the approach does not generally permit whole-disk
copying (because Volume numbers are used to differentiate your
'diskettes'); and, for some reason, it does not seem to like Copy II+.
The idea seems to work fine for standard, file-oriented DOS 3.3
stuff-- kind of a cute idea!
Rubywand