Connecting Apple IIgs to Ethernet LAN
Dirk Ebert
I would like to connect my old Apple IIgs to our Local Network. I never did any
Network installation with Apples before, so I have some question. Any help
would be highly appreciated:
1) Physical connection
From what I read, I suppose that one of the serial ports can be assigned as as
"LocalTalk" adapter.
What kind of transceiver do I need to connect it to a RJ45 ethernet?
2) Protocols
I heard that there is a TCP/IP suite for the IIgs somewhere. Anybody knows a
link?
Are there drivers for other Protocols like NETBIOS over TCP/IP and IPX ?
Or the other way round:
Are there any programmes for Windows95/Linux/Solaris computers, so they can
understand the packets used by AppleTalk?
3) Network files
One thing I would like to do, is that the Apple IIgs can access some files on
the network (I am aware that the speed would be quite slow).
Are the any Programmes (kind of like Samba) that can provide Network Shares for
Apples and run on Linux,Solaris or Windows?
Thanx for your help,
Dirk
--
eMail: m...@dirk-ebert.de
URL: http://www.dirk-ebert.de
Mike Ford
> What kind of transceiver do I need to connect it to a RJ45 ethernet?
> I heard that there is a TCP/IP suite for the IIgs somewhere. Anybody knows a
> link?
> Are there any programmes for Windows95/Linux/Solaris computers, so they can
> understand the packets used by AppleTalk?
> One thing I would like to do, is that the Apple IIgs can access some files on
> the network (I am aware that the speed would be quite slow).
> Are the any Programmes (kind of like Samba) that can provide Network
Shares for
> Apples and run on Linux,Solaris or Windows?
I don't think the IIgs will directly connect to a ethernet network, but it
is easy to connect it to LocalTalk, and then use a bridge to connect
LocalTalk to Ethernet. AppleTalk may be the only protocol you "really"
need to run with the IIgs, and the free but unsupported LocalTalkbridge
software from Apple will run on most macs.
To support TCP/IP you will need a commercial bridge product, either
software, or hardware like the (old) Shiva FastPath that encapsulates
TCP/IP packets for LocalTalk. I have heard this works well, but haven't
tried it. I do have a number of the FastPath boxes I plan to sell, when I
get around to it.
For your last questions I think so, but don't know that much about PC
software. NT I believe has a server option builtin to support Appletalk
services like printing and file sharing, but I don't know any details.
Paul
Dirk Ebert wrote:
> Hey everybody,
> I would like to connect my old Apple IIgs to our Local Network. I never did any
> Network installation with Apples before, so I have some question. Any help
> would be highly appreciated:
>
> 1) Physical connection
> From what I read, I suppose that one of the serial ports can be assigned as as
> "LocalTalk" adapter.
> What kind of transceiver do I need to connect it to a RJ45 ethernet?
>
> 2) Protocols
> I heard that there is a TCP/IP suite for the IIgs somewhere. Anybody knows a
> link?
> Are there drivers for other Protocols like NETBIOS over TCP/IP and IPX ?
>
> Or the other way round:
> Are there any programmes for Windows95/Linux/Solaris computers, so they can
> understand the packets used by AppleTalk?
>
> 3) Network files
> One thing I would like to do, is that the Apple IIgs can access some files on
> the network (I am aware that the speed would be quite slow).
> Are the any Programmes (kind of like Samba) that can provide Network Shares for
> Apples and run on Linux,Solaris or Windows?
>
Bart
-Bart
--
barpriNOSPAM at teleport com
Supertimer
>Hey everybody,
>I would like to connect my old Apple IIgs to our Local Network. I never did
any
>Network installation with Apples before, so I have some question. Any help
>would be highly appreciated:
>
>1) Physical connection
>From what I read, I suppose that one of the serial ports can be assigned as as
>"LocalTalk" adapter.
>What kind of transceiver do I need to connect it to a RJ45 ethernet?
>
>2) Protocols
>I heard that there is a TCP/IP suite for the IIgs somewhere. Anybody knows a
>link?
>Are there drivers for other Protocols like NETBIOS over TCP/IP and IPX ?
There is a TCP/IP for the IIGS. The link escapes me at the
moment. Maybe http://www.crl.com/~joko Shareware
Solutions II has the link on its site.
However, there is no Ethernet card commercially available
for the IIGS. You have to build one yourself from the plans
recently made available on the net.
It is easier to have the IIGS and the PC linked via a serial
cable and use TCP/IP through serial.
>Or the other way round:
>Are there any programmes for Windows95/Linux/Solaris computers, so they can
>understand the packets used by AppleTalk?
Linux can do it with a package called Netatalk. You must
provide the PC with an AppleTalk card, though. Then
Netatalk for Linux can turn your Linux unit into an
AppleTalk server.
>3) Network files
>One thing I would like to do, is that the Apple IIgs can access some files on
>the network (I am aware that the speed would be quite slow).
>Are the any Programmes (kind of like Samba) that can provide Network Shares
for
>Apples and run on Linux,Solaris or Windows?
Assuming you get Netatalk for Linux and an AppleTalk
for PC card. The speed would be 230k and the IIGS
would be able to log onto the Linux box as a workstation
using the System 6.0.1 software. Shared volumes can
be accessed by the IIGS from the Finder.
Supertimer
>Ok, now...can you connect a //e to Appletalk? and how?
You need to provide the IIe with an Apple II Workstation
Card. These were rather rare and thus somewhat
expensive. Collectors like to buy them.
Bart
1. any idea where? 2. any schematic of the Workstation card avaiable? I am
a fair soldering iron jockey....
In article <19991229233638...@ng-cm1.aol.com>, super...@aol.com
says...
John Townsend
I have two extra Apple II Workstation Cards that I can sell for $30 each, plus
shipping. Both are tested and complete with cable assembly, and include a copy of
the User Guide and software on either 3.5" or 5.25" disks. This is what you need
to put an Apple IIe on an AppleTalk/LocalTalk network to share a LaserWriter or
ImageWriter II/LQ (with LocalTalk option) printer with a IIGS and/or Mac, or
directly access a Mac's hard drive. If you've got a Mac, this is the cheapest way
to add a hard drive to your IIe, the easiest way to tranfer files between the two
machines, and the only way to get a hard drive volume larger than 32MB on a IIe.
It also emulates a Super Serial Card if you want to use a directly-connected
serial printer (e.g. ImageWriter without LocalTalk option) and still share files
over LocalTalk. Any questions, let me know. Thanks!
--
John E. Townsend
Sr. Software Engineer "Machines should work;
LEXIS-NEXIS people should think."
Dayton, OH, USA -- IBM Polyanna Principle
uto...@lexis-nexis.com
John
local school district's Information Services department. I know that since
several of the school systems originally used Apple //e equipment connected to
a Macintosh (running as the server) via an Appletalk network, many IS
departments still have much of this hardware just laying around in a storage
area, back closet, etc and if approached are often eager to get rid of this
hardware that they consider to be obsolete. I have found this to be an
excellent source for free stuff!!!
In article <19991229233638...@ng-cm1.aol.com>, super...@aol.com
Andy McFadden
Supertimer <super...@aol.com> wrote:
>>I would like to connect my old Apple IIgs to our Local Network. I never did
>any
>>Network installation with Apples before, so I have some question. Any help
>>would be highly appreciated:
Look for a Farallon Etherwave localtalk adapter (built for connecting old
printers, not old computers, but it works fine). Some people have had
better luck with Shiva FastPath 4 and 5s (available on eBay occasionally),
but the 4 I had was big, noisy, and flaky.
>Linux can do it with a package called Netatalk. You must
>provide the PC with an AppleTalk card, though. Then
>Netatalk for Linux can turn your Linux unit into an
>AppleTalk server.
netatalk+asun (available from the Red Hat web site) works under Linux.
WinNT 4 Server comes with "Macintosh" support that allows it to act as
an AppleShare server, though I managed to reliably blue-screen SP5 while
doing large file transfers. Win2K RC1 wouldn't let the Apple IIgs
authenticate, so I wasn't able to test that. (Might've worked if I'd
configured it for "guest" access.)
You're probably better off with the localtalk<->ethernet adapter than
a card in a PC.
>>3) Network files
>>One thing I would like to do, is that the Apple IIgs can access some files on
>>the network (I am aware that the speed would be quite slow).
>>Are the any Programmes (kind of like Samba) that can provide Network Shares
>for
>>Apples and run on Linux,Solaris or Windows?
>
>Assuming you get Netatalk for Linux and an AppleTalk
>for PC card. The speed would be 230k and the IIGS
>would be able to log onto the Linux box as a workstation
>using the System 6.0.1 software. Shared volumes can
>be accessed by the IIGS from the Finder.
Yes, though I only seem to be able to do this with "guest" access. Netatalk
isn't trivial to configure, but it's a whole hell of a lot easier than
getting Samba figured out. (You only need a couple of lines to set up the
guest volume, but it's not immediately obvious what those lines are.)
230K localtalk beats 56K zmodem for speed, convenience, and not having
your filenames stepped on by moronic software. :-) Besides which, having
a 25-foot serial cable is much more annoying than a 25-foot cat5 ethernet...
since switching over, I've been able to get rid of the mondo cable and
a serial port switch box that hung off of the PC.
The Linux server also helped me kick-start an old Quadra I'd bought on
eBay (at once point I was resigned to using a Mac intermediary to move
files around). If you've ever tried to get Aladdin Expander on a Mac
that didn't already have Aladdin Expander, you know what I'm talking about.
"macunpack -a" is your friend...
--
Send mail to fad...@netcom.com (Andy McFadden)
CD-Recordable FAQ - http://www.fadden.com/cdrfaq/ (a/k/a www.spies.com/~fadden)
Fight Internet Spam - http://spam.abuse.net/spam/ & news.admin.net-abuse.email
David Empson
> Ok...then....You mentioned plans for building a GS ethernet card somewhere:
> 1. any idea where?
They come up from time to time on places like eBay.
>2. any schematic of the Workstation card avaiable?
I've never seen one.
> I am a fair soldering iron jockey....
The workstation card is basically an entire microcomputer on a card. It
has its own 65C02 (running at 2 MHz, I think), RAM and ROM, plus the
Z8530 SCC chip which is required to get the LocalTalk support. I
haven't looked closely, but I imagine it is a four layer circuit board.
This would not be a simple task to duplicate. Another major problem is
that you would need the firmware, and you can't get that legally without
buying the card.
There is also an adaptor box which mounts on the back panel of the
machine, which provides the card with a pair of Mini-Din-8 serial ports.
--
David Empson
dem...@actrix.gen.nz
Snail mail: P O Box 27-103, Wellington, New Zealand
ulrich hausmann
kind regards,
ulrich hausmann
go...@heaven.org (Bart) :
> Ok, now...can you connect a //e to Appletalk? and how?
>
ulrich hausmann
for years i had a an apple IIgs connected to a small mac based ethertalk net
using a GDT (the makers of powerprint) PowerNexus localtalk - ethertalk
(hardware) bridge. the nice thing is, it is hardware only, no drivers needed
and it can connect up to 4 localtalk devices.
alternatively, you could use an old mac running the - now free (you should
find it on the apple sites) - localtalk bridge software (control panel) to
route your localttalk devices to the ethertalk net.
there is a tcp/ip tool for the IIgs ( called marinetti), but it does not
support macip.
the only way, i'm aware of, to connect an apple II to a un*x work station is
by ser-to-ser or via a bridge (hardware or software) if it runs some kind of
appletalk protocol (there are, i'm sure) . . .
generally, the best source of apple II related infos - imho - is
www.delphi.com (Apple2). there are many geeks and even the programmer of
marinetti (richard bennet).
kind regards,
ulrich hausmann
TC
>
> Hey everybody,
> Network installation with Apples before, so I have some question. Any help
> would be highly appreciated:
>
> From what I read, I suppose that one of the serial ports can be assigned as as
> "LocalTalk" adapter.
> What kind of transceiver do I need to connect it to a RJ45 ethernet?
You need a LocalTalk to EtherTalk bridge. I use a Dayna MiniEtherprint.
Works like a champ. You will need an AppleTalk router to seed the
network number with it, unless you can use the included Mac software
on a Mac to configure it. The Shiva FastPath and the Gatorbox also
work.
> 2) Protocols
> I heard that there is a TCP/IP suite for the IIgs somewhere. Anybody knows a
> link?
> Are there drivers for other Protocols like NETBIOS over TCP/IP and IPX ?
>
> Or the other way round:
> Are there any programmes for Windows95/Linux/Solaris computers, so they can
> understand the packets used by AppleTalk?
There are two that will work on most *NIX systems.
Columbia AppleTalk Package (CAP)
This one is pretty old, but works great. You have to get it
and all the patches, then apply them. Once that is done, you can
then begin to try and build it. Remember to build and configure
for EtherTalk. You'll also need to get UAR (UNIX-AppleTalk router) and
build that to seed a network number to your AppleTalk network. I've
got it running on Solaris 7 and I can log in with my UNIX password
as a real user and do file operations, move disk images, etc.
Netatalk - I built it on Solaris, but it wouldn't let me work
as anything but guest (like NT did, too, so I guess it's some
part of the protocol that they only halfway support). I tried CAP
first, then netatalk, then went back and got CAP to work.
> 3) Network files
> One thing I would like to do, is that the Apple IIgs can access some files on
> the network (I am aware that the speed would be quite slow).
> Are the any Programmes (kind of like Samba) that can provide Network Shares for
> Apples and run on Linux,Solaris or Windows?
It's faster than you think. If you can't get CAP to build, I can
ship you ready to build source or my binaries for Solaris 2.6 and up.
Toby
--
Toby Creek
UNIX/NT/network/PBX/copier/Coke machine administrator
Last sighted in: Raleigh, NC
Unsolicited e-mail to this address is instantly deleted.
Dirk Ebert
I thank everybody for all the information on how to connect my Apple IIgs to
our local ethernet with all the Unix machines.
I will try a LocalTalk to EtherTalk bridge first. (It neeeds some soldering
first, as the one I got has the 9-Pin connector not the MiniDIN-8).
Dirk
--
eMail: M...@dirk-ebert.de
URL: http://www.dirk-ebert.de
mi...@smudge.com
> as anything but guest (like NT did, too, so I guess it's some
> part of the protocol that they only halfway support). I tried CAP
> first, then netatalk, then went back and got CAP to work.
You need to compile it with the correct security options. Under RH
Linux, PAM is necessary... I wouldn't know about Solaris.
Set these in the Makefile, as per the instructions.
-mink
John
where they have a computer lab that has at least 25-30 enhanced apple //e
machines all running localtalk using a Mac SE/30 as the server. It's been
awhile since I have closely checked out the arrangement that they have going
on there, but it seems that each of these machines have a card in there that
accepts a localtalk connector directly. Could I be dreaming???
In article <1e3qusx.8wxm5k1lgipp6N%dem...@actrix.gen.nz>,
David Empson
> In article <1e3qusx.8wxm5k1lgipp6N%dem...@actrix.gen.nz>,
> dem...@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) wrote:
>
> >There is also an adaptor box which mounts on the back panel of the
> >machine, which provides the card with a pair of Mini-Din-8 serial ports.
>
> My mom works at an elementary school (a science and technology magnet school)
> where they have a computer lab that has at least 25-30 enhanced apple //e
> machines all running localtalk using a Mac SE/30 as the server. It's been
> awhile since I have closely checked out the arrangement that they have going
> on there, but it seems that each of these machines have a card in there that
> accepts a localtalk connector directly.
There are two possible ways of interpreting your comments, so I'll
answer both of them. :-)
Apple II cards don't reach as far as the back panel of the machine, so
connecting a cable to them requires either of two solutions:
(a) Run the cable through a hole in the back panel and plug it directly
into the card. This usually involves a ribbon cable, and is commonly
done with parallel printer cards, as well as the old Disk ][ controller
card. It was the most common method used on the original Apple ][ and
the ][+.
(b) The card provides a connector which mounts onto (or is screwed into)
the back panel of the machine, with a cable running to the card
internally. You then connect the external cable to the connector on the
back panel. This is the preferred method with the IIe and IIgs, which
provide back panel cutouts that fit D-25, D-19 and D-9 connectors.
The Apple II Workstation Card needs two Mini-Din-8 connectors, and there
was no way to mount these directly into the back panel, so Apple used a
small plastic box which screws into one of the D-25 holes and pokes out
the back of the machine. There are two Mini-Din-8 connectors on the
face of this. It connects to the Workstation card via a couple of ten
pin ribbon cables.
The second possible interpretation of your message is that you are
disputing the Mini-Din-8 part and claiming that LocalTalk cables
(Mini-Din-3) plug straight into the connector box.
This is certainly not the case with my Workstation card, and is not
mentioned in the manual. You still need a LocalTalk or PhoneNet drop
box to connect the Workstation card to the network.
In particular, the second port on the Workstation card is available for
use a limited function serial port, specifically for connecting a
non-networked ImageWriter II. (This port can be selected using the
CHOOSER.II application.) This has to be a standard serial port.
Andy McFadden
Curious. I used the netatalk+asun from the Red Hat site on my Red Hat 6.0
system, and I was also unable to work as anything but guest *using my IIgs*.
Using a Quadra 650, I was able to log in to Linux as a user.
This suggests that the problem isn't with the installation, but rather with
the authentication protocols that the IIgs supports.
I had better luck with Win NT4 SP5 (except, of course, for the part where
it blue-screens), but Windows 2000 RC1 wouldn't allow non-guest access.
mi...@smudge.com
<fad...@netcom.com> wrote:
> In article <070120000402420404%mi...@smudge.com>, <mi...@smudge.com> wrote:
> >> Netatalk - I built it on Solaris, but it wouldn't let me work
> >> as anything but guest (like NT did, too, so I guess it's some
> >> part of the protocol that they only halfway support). I tried CAP
> >> first, then netatalk, then went back and got CAP to work.
> >
> >You need to compile it with the correct security options. Under RH
> >Linux, PAM is necessary... I wouldn't know about Solaris.
> >
> >Set these in the Makefile, as per the instructions.
>
> Curious. I used the netatalk+asun from the Red Hat site on my Red Hat 6.0
> system, and I was also unable to work as anything but guest *using my IIgs*.
> Using a Quadra 650, I was able to log in to Linux as a user.
>
> This suggests that the problem isn't with the installation, but rather with
> the authentication protocols that the IIgs supports.
>
> I had better luck with Win NT4 SP5 (except, of course, for the part where
> it blue-screens), but Windows 2000 RC1 wouldn't allow non-guest access.
This is likely because of Chooser/Appleshare versions and
authentication. You need to upgrade Appleshare to access Apple's newest
server software.
You may be able to recompile netatalk with TEXT only authentication and
everything else turned off. This may work. (Sorry, I have fooled around
with this, but quit when I got it to work with an RPM + Mandrake).
-mink
Jeff Blakeney
>This suggests that the problem isn't with the installation, but rather with
>the authentication protocols that the IIgs supports.
There are a couple fixed versions of netatalk available on the net
that fix this very problem. I believe Devin Reade was working on one
but I don't know if he has made it available anywhere, though.
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
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