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Transferring Files between the IIGS and Macs using TCP/IP

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yeslad...@gmail.com

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Jan 13, 2017, 10:16:18 PM1/13/17
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Hello Everyone.

I have asked this question before but I still not clear on how to configure everything to make this work so I'm sorry to belabor the point. I'm trying to figure out how to transfer files between my Apple IIGSes and my Macs. The IIGSes are on the local ethernet using Uthernet and Marinetti, the Mac LC475 is connected to the same network using an AsanteTalk bridge for AppleTalk. When I ping them from my Mac Pro, the IIGSes respond (slowly, around 340 ms), my iMac G3 running OS 9.2.1 responds quickly but there's no response pinging the LC475. It's running OS 7.5.5 and I've set it's IP manually to 192.168.0.100 under the TCP/IP control panel but the Mac Pro can't get a response.

I should mention that AppleTalk between the iMac G3 and the LC475 works fine. I can share files and drives without issue and that connection is through the local TCP/IP router. I figure I need to run server software on the iMac or Mac Pro and have the IIGSes log into them but what software do I use and how do I do that? The GSes are running GS/OS 6.0.4 and I can access the internet using Contiki but how do I share files between the IIGS and the iMac or the LC475 for that matter?

Is there a tutorial that explains the networking options for the IIGS accessing the network using Marinetti? I'm really scratching my head over this one as I think I'm probably looking at different generations of networking software compatibility and flexibility. For instance, is there a way to ping other Macs on the network from the IIGS under GS/OS 6.0.4? Can I use Contiki to access files on one of my Macs? I am running OS 10.11.6 El Capitan on the Mac Pro (early 2008). Perhaps I can serve files to the IIGSes from the Mac Pro?

Hopefully there's a simple answer or procedure to set this up. I can certainly use floppies between the IIGS and the LC475 and AppleTalk between the L475 and the iMac G3 and thumbdrives between the Mac Pro and the G3 but I'd hope to find a more direct answer.

Thank you for any suggestions you might have or directing me to an obvious answer that I'm missing. Also thank you for your time.

Gerry


Antoine Vignau

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Jan 14, 2017, 1:37:41 AM1/14/17
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Gerry,
according to me, your "more direct option" is AppleTalk!

Antoine

Ewen

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Jan 14, 2017, 3:04:23 AM1/14/17
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Gerry,

> I'm trying to figure out how to transfer files between my Apple IIGSes
> and my Macs

Therev are many ways to do this, but if you just want to transfer files,
as you already have Marinetti installed, you can FTP the files over very
easily between the two.

Go to my website: http://speccie.uk

Download the SAFE2 FTP client, and the SAFE2 Manual. All is explained in
the manual...

Get back to me here if you have problems.

Cheers - Ewen

Andrew Roughan

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Jan 14, 2017, 4:22:46 AM1/14/17
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There is no file system that uses TCPIP on the Apple IIGS. This means that
you'll need to use an application to transfer files to some kind of server.
You can use an FTP program to download files from an FTP server and upload
files to an FTP server. Mac OS X has an FTP server that you can enable for
this.
Look for a program called SAFE2 for the IIGS.

There is a ping application for the IIGS that you can use to ping other
machines on your network.

Regards
Andrew

D Finnigan

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Jan 14, 2017, 5:46:04 PM1/14/17
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gerrys...@mac.com wrote:
>
> Hopefully there's a simple answer or procedure to set this up. I can
> certainly use floppies between the IIGS and the LC475 and AppleTalk
> between
> the L475 and the iMac G3 and thumbdrives between the Mac Pro and the G3
> but
> I'd hope to find a more direct answer.
>

Yes you are already going in the right direction. Install LocalTalk bridge
on the LC475 and you'll be able to mount AppleShare volumes hosted on your
iMac G3, on the Apple IIgs desktop.

http://macgui.com/downloads/?file_id=19299&keywords=localtalk%20bridge

You have LocalTalk or PhoneNet cables, right? I used to do this all the time
with a blue and white Power Mac G3, except I used a Mac LC as the
LocalTalk-Ethernet bridge.

AppleShare is the best network file sharing option for the Apple II because
it is simple, straightforward, and built into the operating system.

--
]DF$
The Marina IP stack for Apple II--
http://marina.a2hq.com/

gid...@sasktel.net

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Jan 14, 2017, 6:33:33 PM1/14/17
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Another way of transferring files between IIGS and iMacG3 is to install Bernie2theRescue on the G3. It writes perfectly to a 3.5 floppy formatted to Prodos. Very stable emulator.

Rob

Ewen

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Jan 15, 2017, 2:50:43 AM1/15/17
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Bob,

> Another way of transferring files between IIGS and iMacG3 is to install
> Bernie2theRescue on the G3. It writes perfectly to a 3.5 floppy
> formatted to Prodos. Very stable emulator.

Bernie will only run on a Mac with a PowerPC processor. I would suspect
that his Mac Pro was using an Intel chip.

Instead, he would need to use Sweet16, but then he would not be able to
write to real floppies, only floppy disk images, as later Mac OS
versions won't write to floppies.

http://www.sheppyware.net/software-mac/sweet16/

Cheers - Ewen


gid...@sasktel.net

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Jan 15, 2017, 4:37:27 AM1/15/17
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On Sunday, January 15, 2017 at 1:50:43 AM UTC-6, Ewen wrote:
> Bob,
>
> > Another way of transferring files between IIGS and iMacG3 is to install
> > Bernie2theRescue on the G3. It writes perfectly to a 3.5 floppy
> > formatted to Prodos. Very stable emulator.
>
> Bernie will only run on a Mac with a PowerPC processor. I would suspect
> that his Mac Pro was using an Intel chip.
>
> Instead, he would need to use Sweet16, but then he would not be able to
> write to real floppies, only floppy disk images, as later Mac OS
> versions won't write to floppies.

Mac OS of any version doesn't write to Prodos floppies very well. I didn't recommend Bernie2theRescue due to it being an emulator. I recommended it due to its ability to write to Prodos disks on a Mac machine better than any of the Mac OS versions can.
The iMac G3 is a Power PC. The iMac and Mac Pro series goes up to G5 using the Power PC processor before going over to intel. But if OP is running OSX 11.6, then definitely has Intel.

Just realized the iMac G3 doesn't have a built in floppy. Was thinking of the old PowerMac G3. You would need a usb floppy drive for the iMac. But since the Mac475 can connect to the iMac, then files can be transferred to the Mac 475 and written to a floppy there.

The Mac 475 can write to Prodos disks, but requires a certain control panel. Can't remember the name off hand.

Gerry, You don't say if the Mac Pro can connect to the iMac or Mac 475?

Rob

yeslad...@gmail.com

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Jan 15, 2017, 9:00:03 PM1/15/17
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Thank you all for your feedback. I like what I'm hearing so let me answer your questions and share the direction I'm moving.

First Antone, yes you are right. DF, there are reasons I don't like AppleTalk. First it is flakey! I use it to talk between the LC475 and the iMac G3. When it works it's great. (Side note: I have an Apple IIe card in the LC475 so there's no room for a network card but I do have one with driver floppy.) But right now the LC475 and the iMac G3 won't see each other even though I've rebooted repeatedly, stopped and restarted file sharing and restarted the AsanteTalk many, MANY times. I've had this happen before and at some point when the stars re-align they will suddenly 'see' each other again.

Second, I want to base my connectivity on ethernet given what I've spent on the Uthernet cards, TWGS cards with upgrades, CFFA3000s and Superdrives with Apple I/F cards. To reconfigure the IIgs to chat on AppleTalk requires reconfiguring slot 1 on the 01 machine and slot 7 on the 03 machine, as I remember. Both IIGSes are fully loaded with the Uthernet cards in slot 1 and the CFFA3000s in slot 7. See, I'm very lazy and reconfiguring the IIGS control panels to talk gets tedious very quickly. I get tired of shutting down the IIGS, moving the external Thumbdrive over to the Mac Pro to copy .2mg files to mount them on the CFFA. (If I hot swap the thumbdrive on the CFFA most of the time the drives come back okay but every once in a while confusion reigns and a IIGS reboot is required.)

Rob, the LC475 reads and writes ProDOS floppies (both 800K and 1.44M) under 7.5.5 with no problems. They are easily read by the Superdrives on the IIGSes. Here, the problem is files larger than 1.44 MBs. I maintain HFS drives on the IIGSes that are up to 2 GBs in size (the maximum size Cider Press supports). So if I'm bringing multi-megabyte files to the IIGSes I have to shutdown and use Cider Press to build a .2MG file with the files I want. Tedious but very possible.

Here is my Mac Pro:

Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro3,1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 3.2 GHz
Number of Processors: 2
Total Number of Cores: 8
L2 Cache (per Processor): 12 MB
Memory: 8 GB

I have Sweet16 on it and runs like a bat out of hell when the Sweet16 speed maxed out in the preferences panel. System speed is around 155 MHz. Sweet16 is even faster on my late 2013 MacBook Pro. But I never use it as my wife has taken it over. Damn it!

The iMac G3 runs OS 9.22 and handles thumbdrives from the Mac Pro just fine but it's slow with USB 1.1. I'm about ready to blow it's HD out as it acts flakey. I bought some SD/IDE I/F cards that will allow me to use SD cards as the system drive for the iMac. Another project in the future.

I can ping both IIGSes and the iMac from the Mac Pro. I get no response from the the LC475 through the AsanteTalk box whether AppleTalk is working or not. Finally, I hate FTP. I used it so much at work and it's a pain in the butt. So I will look into it but I don't want to re-live old frustrations.

Here's where I'm at now. I found and just installed Spectrum 2.5.4 on both IIGSes. It runs fine through the Uthernet but I haven't had time yet to play more. My wife and I volunteer at the Bob Hope USO at LAX and we had the 10 PM to 2 AM shift today so I'm kind of dragging.

I'm looking for the SIS (Spectrum Internet Suite) files to mount them on my IIGSes and see if I can connect to my Macs via local IP addresses. Syndicomm supposedly sells the application but it's not on their site. I've been digging around but, so far, no luck finding the files. Does anybody know where to find them? Since Spectrum has gone public, has SIS too since it's based on Spectrum? Perhaps SIS is just a specifically configured Spectrum that works as a web browser but I can't confirm that.

As always thank you for your comments and suggestions and your time.

Gerry


gid...@sasktel.net

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Jan 15, 2017, 10:44:40 PM1/15/17
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http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/images/communications/Spectrum%202.53.zip

or older version

http://mirrors.apple2.org.za/ftp.apple.asimov.net/images/gs/communications/SIS%20%28Spectrum%20Internet%20Suite%20%29_v1.2.zip


There have been a few posts, on other forums as well, of someone wanting to connect to newer Macs. I have yet to read of anyone succeeding.

If it becomes available again, I would look into the CFFA3000 card by Rich Dreher. The card has a usb port that can handle your thumb drives and allow transfer of larger files.

Rob

Ewen

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Jan 16, 2017, 2:10:10 AM1/16/17
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Gerry,

> I'm looking for the SIS (Spectrum Internet Suite) files to mount
> them on my IIGSes and see if I can connect to my Macs via local
> IP addresses. Syndicomm supposedly sells the application but it's
> not on their site. I've been digging around but, so far, no luck
> finding the files. Does anybody know where to find them?
> Since Spectrum has gone public, has SIS too since it's based on
> Spectrum? Perhaps SIS is just a specifically configured Spectrum
> that works as a web browser but I can't confirm that.

The correct place to get Spectrum (telecomms), SAFE2 (FTP), and a link
to SIS, is from my web site. All my software is free:

http://speccie.uk

As the author, you can be sure to get the latest and proper versions
there.

I wrote the HTML engine for SIS, but the script set was writtien by
Geoff Weiss. It was a collaborative effort, that has been well
documented over the years. There is a link on my web site to Geoff's web
site where you can get a copy of SIS.

Let me reiterate, if you want to transfer files between a Mac and a
IIgs, whether it be a real IIgs, or Sweet16, you should use the SAFE2
FTP client...

Cheers - Ewen

Ewen

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Jan 16, 2017, 2:10:10 AM1/16/17
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Rob,

> The iMac G3 is a Power PC. The iMac and Mac Pro series goes up
> to G5 using the Power PC processor before going over to intel.
> But if OP is running OSX 11.6, then definitely has Intel.

This is not correct. A Mac Pro always has an Intel chip, the same case
with a PowrPC chip is called a Power Mac G5...

Cheers - Ewen

Ewen

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Jan 16, 2017, 2:10:10 AM1/16/17
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Rob,

> There have been a few posts, on other forums as well, of someone
> wanting to connect to newer Macs. I have yet to read of anyone succeeding.

Apart from using ADT OPro, I do this most every day, to Mac Sierra using
SAFE2. You just have to first turn on the native FTP server in Mac OS.

You will find all the instructions you need in the SAFE2 PDF manual you
can download from my web site:

http://speccie.uk

Cheers - Ewen

Steven Hirsch

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Jan 16, 2017, 7:31:43 AM1/16/17
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On 01/15/2017 10:44 PM, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:

> There have been a few posts, on other forums as well, of someone wanting to
> connect to newer Macs. I have yet to read of anyone succeeding.

If you run an older version of netatalk on the Mac it should be able to serve
as an Appletalk server. For the past 4-5 years I've relied on a small network
appliance running netatalk for A2 networking. Since Geoff Body reverse
engineered the IIGS atalk code and fixed a few bugs it's been rock solid. Now
works reliably over absolutely any ethernet <--> localtalk adapter.



gid...@sasktel.net

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Jan 16, 2017, 12:53:02 PM1/16/17
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That may be the way Apple may have intended it to be that way, but that is semantics and both Apple and users commonly called the Power Mac G5, a Mac Pro, even before the Mac Pro was released.

Here is a quote from wikipedia, "Apple had dropped the term "Power" from the other machines in their lineup, and started using "Pro" on their higher-end laptop offerings. As such, the name "Mac Pro" was widely used before the machine was announced.[5]"

Even Apple called the Power Mac G5, a Mac Pro.

D Finnigan

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Jan 16, 2017, 2:38:41 PM1/16/17
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gids.rs wrote:
> On Sunday, January 15, 2017 at 1:50:43 AM UTC-6, Ewen wrote:
>> Bob,
>>
>> > Another way of transferring files between IIGS and iMacG3 is to install
>> > Bernie2theRescue on the G3. It writes perfectly to a 3.5 floppy
>> > formatted to Prodos. Very stable emulator.
>>
>> Bernie will only run on a Mac with a PowerPC processor. I would suspect
>> that his Mac Pro was using an Intel chip.
>>
>> Instead, he would need to use Sweet16, but then he would not be able to
>> write to real floppies, only floppy disk images, as later Mac OS
>> versions won't write to floppies.
>
> Mac OS of any version doesn't write to Prodos floppies very well. I
> didn't
> recommend Bernie2theRescue due to it being an emulator. I recommended it
> due to its ability to write to Prodos disks on a Mac machine better than
> any of the Mac OS versions can.
>

So what? If he's running a IIgs, doesn't he have the HFS filesystem for
GS/OS? Make some HFS disks instead on the Mac and read/write them on the
IIgs.

yeslad...@gmail.com

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Jan 16, 2017, 3:23:38 PM1/16/17
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Rob thank you for your info. I do have a CFFA3000 in both IIGSes.

Ewen, thank you for your feedback. I was confused how SIS was packaged. You supplied Spectrum.Gold and Manuals on .2MG images and that's what I was looking for with SIS. I saw the SIS1.2.shk file but it didn't click that was your SIS install files as I need to put it in a .2MG file using CiderPress. So I'm sorry for my confusion.

I do have Spectrum 2.54 running on both IIGSes and working on some issues. In the TCP/IP Services when I select A2central, it resolves the IP address using DNS but is unable to create a connection. I tried m.cnn.com, thin.npr.org, and foxnews.com and got the same results. I guess I'll have to read the manual. I will also take a look at Safe2 and see how it works.

Rob, thank you for your suggestion. I kicked both Macs again last night as well as the AsanteTalk box and got both to see each other under AppleTalk. So they are chatting and will follow up if I can't move files any other way.

Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and suggestions. I'm glad to have you available to help me figure these things out. If I can be of help or give feedback on my experiences, please let me know. I don't know how many Apple II users have 01 and 03 IIGSes to compare so if you have any questions, please let me know.

Gerry

gid...@sasktel.net

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Jan 16, 2017, 7:13:28 PM1/16/17
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True, but I hesitate to recommend that method. It is all about the success of the transfer, and I ran into far fewer errors transferring files using Bernie. Especially when using high density disks. Macs can't even write to HFS disks formatted to 800kb very well. It actually shocked me to see how error-free Bernie was when writing to Prodos disks using Mac drives on a Mac.

By the way, in my mind, Bernie is a lady and is short for Bernadette and was my first emulated relationship. :)

Scott Alfter

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Jan 17, 2017, 12:15:18 AM1/17/17
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In article <214d7440-a4d5-4279...@googlegroups.com>,
<gid...@sasktel.net> wrote:
>There have been a few posts, on other forums as well, of someone wanting
>to connect to newer Macs. I have yet to read of anyone succeeding.

Has anyone tried building Netatalk on a newer Mac? If Mac OS X is still
BSD-like enough, it might be an option. I've used it on Linux, and the
release notes for the current version say that FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, and
Solaris are also supported. My IIGS connected through a GatorBox CS worked
like a champ with Netatalk.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

yeslad...@gmail.com

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Feb 13, 2017, 2:01:51 PM2/13/17
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Good Morning All. I thought I'd update this thread. I've worked on both IIGSes and have gotten them to work more reliably through the Ethernet. I had problems with the CFFA3000 card in the 01 machine and a flakey MB in the 03 machine. I got the Asante EN/SC ethernet to SCSI adapter to work with the LC475 and I upgraded the system drive on the iMac G3 to an SD card and reinstalled 9.2.1. With Safe2 on the IIgSes and Anarchie on the LC475 and the iMac I can now FTP to my Mac Pro or to websites on the net. I can move files between all four machines using either floppy, thumb drive or FTP.

It took a while but I'm happy with the TCP/IP connectivity. It's much faster than AppleTalk.

Gerry
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