IIGS specific graphics web browser for IIGS specific web sites!
Supertimer
As I understand it, the main reason a graphical web browser
in the traditional sense is not feasable for the Apple IIGS
is the graphics formats. Web graphics are stored in compressed
formats that need to be decompressed. The favorite formats
are .gif and .jpg and these take time to decompress on a IIGS
because the processor is not suited for heavy math functions.
Furthermore, the images need to be scaled to fit the IIGS
screen.
This may sound crazy, but since we have SIS specific html
tags, how about IIGS specific web graphics! These graphics
can be stored scaled to fit the IIGS screen and stored in
SHR format. No longer having to decompress and scale the
graphics, a IIGS web browser using a IIGS specific web site
will be able to browse a traditional looking web page.
I know that this will only work on IIGS specific web sites
and that the graphics will not have the color and resolution
of other web sites, but so what? SIS specific web sites
already have IIGS specific stuff.
This IIGS specific web browser will enable the updating
of current Apple II related web sites to include graphics.
Speed is not an issue....a full screen SHR graphic is just
32k, a cinch to download at 14.4 (the most common speed
of modem on the IIGS) and the graphics on these web sites
will not be full screen....they will be smaller embedded
images, like on other web sites.
We already have pretty amazing and useful graphical
HyperStudio and HyperCard stacks using nothing but
640 mode graphics. Again, this is without the use of
the hires images seen on other computers but is nontheless
great for conveying INFORMATION. That's what the web
is for, after all....
IIGS developers, are you listening?
Jeff Blakeney
>Ideas for a IIGS specific web browser.
>
>As I understand it, the main reason a graphical web browser
>in the traditional sense is not feasable for the Apple IIGS
>is the graphics formats. Web graphics are stored in compressed
>formats that need to be decompressed. The favorite formats
>are .gif and .jpg and these take time to decompress on a IIGS
>because the processor is not suited for heavy math functions.
>Furthermore, the images need to be scaled to fit the IIGS
>screen.
I've thought of the same thing. Unfortunately SIS only supports a 7
bit connection at present which means the only way we could include
images in current web pages would be to BINscii encode them or
something. This would increase their file size unfortunately.
However, if we wait a while for the new Marinetti and new Spectrum to
come out, then maybe Geoff will update SIS to use TCP/IP and therefore
give us an 8 bit connection. Downloading images, or anything for that
matter, would become possible.
By the way, if the conversion routines from Convert.3200 were to be
used, most GIF images could be converted in a matter of seconds for
use on the IIgs.
Oh, and another problem right now is the way SIS displays its
information. I believe at present it is using a TextEdit control
which doesn't support putting in images so any update to support
graphics would either have to have a separate window to view the
graphics or have to totally rewrite a large portion of SIS. :-/
>This may sound crazy, but since we have SIS specific html
>tags, how about IIGS specific web graphics! These graphics
>can be stored scaled to fit the IIGS screen and stored in
>SHR format. No longer having to decompress and scale the
>graphics, a IIGS web browser using a IIGS specific web site
>will be able to browse a traditional looking web page.
There is no need to make a SIS specific image tag. If you put in an
<IMG ...> tag that points to a graphic format that the current browser
doesn't have a viewer for, it will display a broken graphic image. I
just tried it with Internet Explorer and I got an image frame with a
white document icon with a red X in it.
However, there is nothing stopping people from writing a plug-in that
will allow viewing of IIgs graphic formats for Internet Explorer or
Netscape. They could even have the viewer automatically double the
height of the image to retain proper aspect ratio on the higher
resolution machines.
They could even do a PaintWorks animation plug-in too if they wanted
to get really fancy. :-)
>I know that this will only work on IIGS specific web sites
>and that the graphics will not have the color and resolution
>of other web sites, but so what? SIS specific web sites
>already have IIGS specific stuff.
Yes, you can put one of those "Best viewed on an Apple IIgs" icons on
the page for those less fortunate folk who are using IBM or Mac
machines. :-)
However, see above for reasons why it could still work for other
browswers.
>This IIGS specific web browser will enable the updating
>of current Apple II related web sites to include graphics.
>
>Speed is not an issue....a full screen SHR graphic is just
>32k, a cinch to download at 14.4 (the most common speed
>of modem on the IIGS) and the graphics on these web sites
>will not be full screen....they will be smaller embedded
>images, like on other web sites.
Actually, if you use Apple Preferred images, which are compressed but
in a way the IIgs can deal with much easier, then the average size of
an image would be reduced to 8-16k.
>We already have pretty amazing and useful graphical
>HyperStudio and HyperCard stacks using nothing but
>640 mode graphics. Again, this is without the use of
>the hires images seen on other computers but is nontheless
>great for conveying INFORMATION. That's what the web
>is for, after all....
>
>IIGS developers, are you listening?
Unfortunately, they tend to hear things more on Compuserve, Genie and
Delphi but I'm sure they are already aware of this option and if not,
I'll be sure to tell them. :-)
=== To ensure I see a reply please also e-mail me but remember to:
CUT the obvious from my e-mail address to e-mail me
Jeff Blakeney - Dean of the Apple II University on Delphi
Joe Kohn
>By the way, if the conversion routines from Convert.3200 were to be
>used, most GIF images could be converted in a matter of seconds for
>use on the IIgs.
Someone recently sent me an e-mail asking about using the GIF routines from
Convert 3200 in a web browser; it's too bad my e-mail reply, sent to him on
Prodigy, bounced :-(
In any case, the complete source code for Convert 3200 is available to
owners of Convert 3200 for $5. The Convert 3200 program itself costs $15.
We'd be thrilled if someone used those GIF routines to create new software.
Brutal Deluxe and I use Apple IIGS computers, and we'd love it as much as
the next IIGS owner if someone used the Convert 3200 src to create a
utility/program/browser to display net graphics.
Joe Kohn - Publisher of Convert 3200
Supertimer
>super...@aol.com (Supertimer) wrote:
>
>>Ideas for a IIGS specific web browser.
>>
>
>I've thought of the same thing. Unfortunately SIS only supports a 7
>bit connection at present which means the only way we could include
>images in current web pages would be to BINscii encode them or
>something. This would increase their file size unfortunately.
>
>However, if we wait a while for the new Marinetti and new Spectrum to
>come out, then maybe Geoff will update SIS to use TCP/IP and therefore
>give us an 8 bit connection. Downloading images, or anything for that
>matter, would become possible.
Then a true graphical IIGS web browser supporting graphics and
sound would be possible!
>By the way, if the conversion routines from Convert.3200 were to be
>used, most GIF images could be converted in a matter of seconds for
>use on the IIgs.
>
>Oh, and another problem right now is the way SIS displays its
>information. I believe at present it is using a TextEdit control
>which doesn't support putting in images so any update to support
>graphics would either have to have a separate window to view the
>graphics or have to totally rewrite a large portion of SIS. :-/
That's true, but it is better than nothing. The AOL web browser
also opens a window to display a graphic if you click on a
graphics file on, for example, an http connection to an ftp site,
so it is doable. It would be great if a web browser could be
written from scratch, though, that did not use TextEdit.
>>This may sound crazy, but since we have SIS specific html
>>tags, how about IIGS specific web graphics! These graphics
>>can be stored scaled to fit the IIGS screen and stored in
>>SHR format. No longer having to decompress and scale the
>>graphics, a IIGS web browser using a IIGS specific web site
>>will be able to browse a traditional looking web page.
>
>There is no need to make a SIS specific image tag. If you put in an
><IMG ...> tag that points to a graphic format that the current browser
>doesn't have a viewer for, it will display a broken graphic image. I
>just tried it with Internet Explorer and I got an image frame with a
>white document icon with a red X in it.
>
>However, there is nothing stopping people from writing a plug-in that
>will allow viewing of IIgs graphic formats for Internet Explorer or
>Netscape. They could even have the viewer automatically double the
>height of the image to retain proper aspect ratio on the higher
>resolution machines.
>
>They could even do a PaintWorks animation plug-in too if they wanted
>to get really fancy. :-)
>
>Yes, you can put one of those "Best viewed on an Apple IIgs" icons on
>the page for those less fortunate folk who are using IBM or Mac
>machines. :-)
>
>However, see above for reasons why it could still work for other
>browswers.
That's a great idea. How about also including support for synthlab
music and IIGS rsounds? It is not too hard to design an Apple II
web site comprised of text, SHR/APF graphics, synthlab instead
of MIDI, rsounds instead of .wav files. Since these are IIGS formats
requiring no conversion, a IIGS with Marinetti and a 14.4 modem
is more than enough hardware to view these pages.
These pages can also have plug ins, like you suggest, for IE and
Netscape so that web browsers on other computers BECOME the
conversion software to access IIGS files....on AND off the Internet.
For years we've heard of how impossible it is for a IIGS to convert/
decompress a .jpg web graphic sufficiently fast and all that
garbage, but just think....if the web pages were design using IIGS
FORMATS, the IIGS DOES NOT NEED TO CONVERT/SCALE/
DECOMPRESS or any of the other time consuming activities.
A IIGS web browser, at least for IIGS specific web sites using
IIGS specific sounds and IIGS specific graphics is VERY possible.
Jeff Blakeney
>Then a true graphical IIGS web browser supporting graphics and
>sound would be possible!
Yes. Certainly possible. The question is just when it will get done.
The developers know about this possibility but are busy working on
other things at present.
Just remember, this capability won't be included in the update to SIS
that is coming out soon. It will probably be in a v2.0 that most
likely won't see the light of day until KFest '99. :-/
But hey, I'm a patient guy. I can wait. :-)
>That's true, but it is better than nothing. The AOL web browser
>also opens a window to display a graphic if you click on a
>graphics file on, for example, an http connection to an ftp site,
>so it is doable. It would be great if a web browser could be
>written from scratch, though, that did not use TextEdit.
Yeah, a non-TextEdit version of SIS would be great but I'll take what
I can get. Besides, it would still take a lot of time for an
unaccerlerated IIgs to render a page if the graphics were to be
included in-line. Easiest way to deal with it is to make images links
on the page so that when you double-clicked them it would open another
window, download the image and display it.
And there is another thing I'd like to see updated. Having the
ability to single click links instead of double click. Again, I
believe the reason we need to double-click is a TextEdit related
issue.
>That's a great idea. How about also including support for synthlab
>music and IIGS rsounds? It is not too hard to design an Apple II
>web site comprised of text, SHR/APF graphics, synthlab instead
>of MIDI, rsounds instead of .wav files. Since these are IIGS formats
>requiring no conversion, a IIGS with Marinetti and a 14.4 modem
>is more than enough hardware to view these pages.
Well, let's not get too carried away. Before you know it all the
Apple II related web sites will be full of fluff just like most of the
rest of the web. :-)
But yes, this is possible. However, it would probably require an
accelerated machine to deal with everything without the music
skipping. It is definitely something that can be looked into, though.
>These pages can also have plug ins, like you suggest, for IE and
>Netscape so that web browsers on other computers BECOME the
>conversion software to access IIGS files....on AND off the Internet.
If these plug-ins for other browsers get written then IBM and Mac
users can enjoy Apple IIgs graphics, animations, sounds and music
which I think would be pretty cool.
>For years we've heard of how impossible it is for a IIGS to convert/
>decompress a .jpg web graphic sufficiently fast and all that
>garbage, but just think....if the web pages were design using IIGS
>FORMATS, the IIGS DOES NOT NEED TO CONVERT/SCALE/
>DECOMPRESS or any of the other time consuming activities.
>A IIGS web browser, at least for IIGS specific web sites using
>IIGS specific sounds and IIGS specific graphics is VERY possible.
Until someone designs, builds and sells either an incredibly fast
accelerator or a new IIgs compatible motherboard that can make our
software run WAY faster, this is definitely the best approach, IMHO.
There are still lots of other possibilities too. We just need the
time and manpower to get this stuff written. Hopefully the next year
will be lots more productive for me and when I finally get to my first
KFest next year, I'll have lots of things to show off. :-)
By the way, something I didn't mention in my last post. A 32k SHR
graphic or 8-16k APF file is a full screen image. Most web graphics
will actually be smaller than that which will make them even quicker
to download and decompress if necessary.
Brian Gillespie
(Jeff Blakeney) wrote:
>On 8 Aug 1998 10:05:21 GMT, super...@aol.com (Supertimer) wrote:
>
>>Then a true graphical IIGS web browser supporting graphics and
>>sound would be possible!
>
>Yes. Certainly possible. The question is just when it will get done.
>The developers know about this possibility but are busy working on
>other things at present.
>
I just had a thought... Perhaps IIGS users could access via a proxy
server. I'm not sure about how that works, but couldn't the server
do the conversion and pass along the images in IIGS format?
--
Brian Gillespie, Jaunt! Software
Antoine Vignau
As the writer of the GIF routines of Convert 3200, let me say that they can
be easily used
in other programs. BUT these routines do not handle animated GIF pictures.
I suppose that one day, I will finish the complet rewriting of JpegView
unpacking routines of
JPEG/JFIF pictures. We have done 30% faster routines but it is not usable
as WWW browsers.
Antoine Vignau
Brutal Deluxe Software
TWS
How about this: A fast modern PC or Mac could be setup somewhere, and
IIgs users
would connect to the web through it. The PC could grab the graphics
from
any site, quickly do a conversion to something a GS could easily deal
with,
and then send it to the GS?
I think thats what Brian was talking about.
SkibumOh
-Michael Lis
Newbie GS'er
Brian Gillespie
(SkibumOh) wrote:
What I was suggesting was several PC's acting as "go betweens" to relay
all requests for web pages and images. They would pass through the
text of the page unchanged, but convert the jpegs and gifs to apple format
before relaying them to the IIGS user. This way, thousands of IIgs users
could see real web page images, fast, with only their IIGS.
Supertimer
>skib...@aol.com (SkibumOh) wrote:
>
>> Why not just surf on the PC or MAC???
>> -Michael Lis
>> Newbie GS'er
>
>What I was suggesting was several PC's acting as "go betweens" to relay
>all requests for web pages and images. They would pass through the
>text of the page unchanged, but convert the jpegs and gifs to apple format
>before relaying them to the IIGS user. This way, thousands of IIgs users
>could see real web page images, fast, with only their IIGS.
That is a good idea, but I still feel that we should start out simple.
Since we know that there are "designed for SIS" pages that are
to be viewed by SIS already, it follows that the people hosting
those pages could simply "graphicatize" them by adding APF
or SHR format IIGS graphics. Then the IIGS can just download
the images and display them...fully within the capabilities of the
unit.
This is because the graphics are 32k or less in size and take
no time to convert, unlike jpegs and gifs.
Normally, these web pages will not be viewable on a PC or
Mac (broken graphic icon), but plug-ins can be programmed to
view IIGS graphics with Netscape and Internet Explorer.
Web browsers can be the communicating medium between the
IIGS and the rest of the computing world.
Even though the IIGS graphics lack the color depth and
resolution of jpegs and gifs, the resulting web pages can
still be quite good. Like viewing an internet based HyperCard
or HyperStudio stack.
Once this step is reached, then the "relay" option for other
web pages can be looking into.
TWS
Why not use a Mac or PC to view the web? I only have a PC, it sucks. I
use my GS the most, and it would be nice to NOT have to use the PC.
Paul Schultz
>
> That is a good idea, but I still feel that we should start out simple.
>
> Since we know that there are "designed for SIS" pages that are
> to be viewed by SIS already, it follows that the people hosting
> those pages could simply "graphicatize" them by adding APF
> or SHR format IIGS graphics. Then the IIGS can just download
> the images and display them...fully within the capabilities of the
> unit.
>
> This is because the graphics are 32k or less in size and take
> no time to convert, unlike jpegs and gifs.
This is not as simple as you may think. Currently, the only web
browser available for the IIgs is SIS. SIS uses the TextEdit
toolset for displaying its pages. TextEdit is not capable of
embedding graphics. So, even though your idea would solve the
problem with converting from a non-IIgs graphics format it
would require writing an HTML display library which is capable
of embedding graphics and text on the same page.
I've always thought that if a programmer wanted to truly advance
the capabilities of the IIgs and at the same time write something
which would support viewing HTML, the way to go would be to
rewrite a TextEdit compatible toolset which took care of the
shortcomings of TextEdit and also allowed embedding of graphics
as well. Sort of a 'SuperTextEdit' Unfortunately, with the state
of things now this is just too big of a project to expect it to
see the light of day.
Paul.
psch...@med.wayne.edu
Paul Schultz
Supertimer
>Supertimer wrote:
>
>> That is a good idea, but I still feel that we should start out simple.
>>
>> Since we know that there are "designed for SIS" pages that are
>> to be viewed by SIS already, it follows that the people hosting
>> those pages could simply "graphicatize" them by adding APF
>> or SHR format IIGS graphics. Then the IIGS can just download
>> the images and display them...fully within the capabilities of the
>> unit.
>>
>> This is because the graphics are 32k or less in size and take
>> no time to convert, unlike jpegs and gifs.
>
>This is not as simple as you may think. Currently, the only web
>browser available for the IIgs is SIS. SIS uses the TextEdit
>toolset for displaying its pages. TextEdit is not capable of
>embedding graphics. So, even though your idea would solve the
>problem with converting from a non-IIgs graphics format it
>would require writing an HTML display library which is capable
>of embedding graphics and text on the same page.
Not necessarily. You can write the web browser so that
you needed to click on a graphic to open a full screen
version of the graphic. Similar to how the old AOL browser
works. Simply double-click on the graphic icon and a
second window will open displaying the selected graphic.
The main thing that needs to happen is an SIS rewrite
to support Marinetti. But supposedly, this is already in
the process.
Similarly, you can embed synthLAB music, for example.
>I've always thought that if a programmer wanted to truly advance
>the capabilities of the IIgs and at the same time write something
>which would support viewing HTML, the way to go would be to
>rewrite a TextEdit compatible toolset which took care of the
>shortcomings of TextEdit and also allowed embedding of graphics
>as well. Sort of a 'SuperTextEdit' Unfortunately, with the state
>of things now this is just too big of a project to expect it to
>see the light of day.
One could always turn to assembly and write a web
browser FTA style. I agree, it is up to the programmers,
but it is a good thing to think about possibilities.
Will Smith
wrote:
|>In article <19981016121615...@ng08.aol.com>, skib...@aol.com
|>(SkibumOh) wrote:
|>
|>> Why not just surf on the PC or MAC???
|>> -Michael Lis
|>> Newbie GS'er
|>
|>What I was suggesting was several PC's acting as "go betweens" to relay
|>all requests for web pages and images. They would pass through the
|>text of the page unchanged, but convert the jpegs and gifs to apple format
|>before relaying them to the IIGS user. This way, thousands of IIgs users
|>could see real web page images, fast, with only their IIGS.
actually, i think what you're suggesting would be realistic...
consider:
since there were no Ethernet cards for the II series in production
(aside from those made for development), we'll use a situation where
several //gs machines are connected via serial ports to the serial
ports of a Linux machine that is connected to the 'Net. Assume the
Linux box has a few of those multi-serial port cards.
in this sort of configuration, it's within the realm of possibility to
have the Linux machine act as a proxy server of sorts, where it would
translate the incoming pictures as necessary for viewing on the GS
machines. this way, you could have a DEC Alpha/PP400+/whatever doing
the work.
the GS systems could be connected to the Linux box via serial line
with Mr. Bennett's Marinetti (fine program!) or SIS... i was
disappointed to learn last night that Mr. Bennett has decided to stop
any/all work on Marinetti because of someone on CSA2. <sigh> that's
a shame, because the one feature that would have been icing on the
cake would be support for Microsoft's PROPRITARY flavor of the PPP
protocol.... 8\
---
William Smith
#include <disclaimer.h>
Remove the obvious when sending e-mail...
Will Smith
|>That is a good idea, but I still feel that we should start out simple.
|>
|>Since we know that there are "designed for SIS" pages that are
|>to be viewed by SIS already, it follows that the people hosting
|>those pages could simply "graphicatize" them by adding APF
|>or SHR format IIGS graphics. Then the IIGS can just download
|>the images and display them...fully within the capabilities of the
|>unit.
you know how a Web Page designer can use Java to pick out certain
versions of Netscape and IE? what would the values be if somebody was
viewing the page with SIS? i'm in the process of re-designing my
page. if i could, i'd like to put stuff there so that people viewing
my page would get the appropriate graphics for their system.... :)
Will Smith
wrote:
|>the GS systems could be connected to the Linux box via serial line
|>with Mr. Bennett's Marinetti (fine program!) or SIS... i was
|>disappointed to learn last night that Mr. Bennett has decided to stop
|>any/all work on Marinetti because of someone on CSA2. <sigh> that's
|>a shame, because the one feature that would have been icing on the
|>cake would be support for Microsoft's PROPRITARY flavor of the PPP
|>protocol.... 8\
i should correct myself: the page said that there wouldn't be any
PUBLIC releases of Marinetti. http://www.apple2.org/marinetti says,
"Due to the pirate scum on csa2 this is the last ever public release
of Marinetti."
so.... before i get flamed for spreading lies, i apologize for
stating it wrongly.
nugunda...@best.com
> I was thinking out loud:
> Why not use a Mac or PC to view the web? I only have a PC, it sucks. I
> use my GS the most, and it would be nice to NOT have to use the PC.
You know, you guys should keep up with the palmpilots. It's development
has IMO closely paralleled Apple II development: almost-open OS and
architecture, tiny apps, functionality and use over bloatware, squeezing
the most functionality out of available hardware etc.
How does it apply here? Well, I can web surf on my 2MB 16MHz 68xxx Palm III
(not that much faster than my 15/64 Zip GS). It's not seriously using
it's CPU for web surfing however.
Instead, there's a proxy out there that down-converts the web for speed
and optimal use on a PalmPilot. It's pretty nice, if not just battery
sucking.
There's no decompressing of gifs nor jpegs involved. Just text and
custom bitmaps (as far as I can tell). There's no reason why the exact
same thing can't be done for Apple IIs.
Just build a farm of linux/freebsd machines, and proxy the web to the
Apple IIs.
--
Joseph nugundam =best=com==/==\=IIGS=/==\=Playstation=/==\=Civic HX CVT=/==\
# Anime Expo 1998 >> www.anime-expo.org/ >
# Redline Games >> www.redlinegames.com/ >
# Cal-Animage Epsilon >> www.best.com/~nugundam/epsilon/ >
# EX: The Online World of Anime & Manga >> www.ex.org/ /
Marc Sira
>any/all work on Marinetti because of someone on CSA2. <sigh> that's
>a shame, because the one feature that would have been icing on the
>cake would be support for Microsoft's PROPRITARY flavor of the PPP
>protocol.... 8\
If you mean the name server negotiation stuff, it's not proprietary - it's
just a protocol layering violation, and was repeatedly rejected by the
standards committee for that reason, as well as the utter cluelessness of the
Microsoftians in their proposal for it. M$ just doesn't get standards
processes, or well-designed network protocols for that matter. There is a
right way to get name server addresses (and a lot of other config) over a
newly-established PPP link, but that's not it. Unfortunately, the right
way isn't complete yet, so a lot of vendors (including Apple on Macs) have
jumped on that bandwagon, which slightly reduces the long-term technical
viability of PPP.
If you mean the weird version of CHAP that NT servers use by default, it's
again not proprietary, although there are many and sufficient other reasons
not to use it.
--
Marc Sira |
t...@freenet.victoria.bc.ca | "Your god drinks...p-p-peach nectar!"
Will Smith
|>If you mean the name server negotiation stuff, it's not proprietary - it's
|>just a protocol layering violation, and was repeatedly rejected by the
|>standards committee for that reason, as well as the utter cluelessness of the
|>Microsoftians in their proposal for it. M$ just doesn't get standards
|>processes, or well-designed network protocols for that matter. There is a
|>right way to get name server addresses (and a lot of other config) over a
|>newly-established PPP link, but that's not it. Unfortunately, the right
|>way isn't complete yet, so a lot of vendors (including Apple on Macs) have
|>jumped on that bandwagon, which slightly reduces the long-term technical
|>viability of PPP.
nope. that's not what i was referring to. this DOES make good
reading, though. <g> doesn't really surprise me, though; the folks
at PunySquishy don't seem to care very much for anything that remotely
resembles a standard unless it actually benefits THEM....
|>If you mean the weird version of CHAP that NT servers use by default, it's
|>again not proprietary, although there are many and sufficient other reasons
|>not to use it.
that's it. i thank you for pointing out that it's not proprietary,
but i don't know of anyone else that uses it, so.... <shrug>
Regards,
Will Smith
|>On Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:44:18 GMT, Will Smith <wsm...@NOSPAM.ctron.com> wrote:
|>> you know how a Web Page designer can use Java to pick out certain
|>> versions of Netscape and IE? what would the values be if somebody was
|>> viewing the page with SIS? i'm in the process of re-designing my
|>> page. if i could, i'd like to put stuff there so that people viewing
|>> my page would get the appropriate graphics for their system.... :)
|>
|>You don't need Java for that. Just look at HTTP_USER_AGENT. SIS
|>identifies itself as follows:
|>
|> Mozilla/2.0 (Compatible; SIS 1.0; IIgs)
THANK YOU! that's precicely what i was looking for! :)
what i was thinking of when i made my request is the JavaScript stuff
that many people use to filter prevent their code from being executed
by browsers that wouldn't be able to deal with it...
|>I use a simple Perl script to personalize the greeting on my main page.
|>If I detect a SIS user, I include some extra SIS sound & voice stuff. I
|>thought about being devious and including graphics that say "[Image]"
|>for Netscape and MSIE browsers, but nah, that would be evil. :)
hehehehe... actually, i think this will work out nicely.... now i
can start working on some stuff... hmmmm... convert my GIFs to
GS-compatible pix, then have them on file... <g> THEN, whenever SIS
gets to the point where it'll display inline graphics, the Apple users
can see my page the same way... ;)
ahhhhh... the possibilities are ENDLESS! <g>
thanks again...
A2MG
Tony, do you have any statistics on how many people hit your page with Lynx (or
other Apple II viewer) vs. how many people hit it with what is probably a PC or
Mac?
Beverly Cadieux
http://members.aol.com/A2MG
A2MG
numbers. I appreciate your posting it.
Beverly Cadieux
http://members.aol.com/A2MG