Trying to connect Apple II+ with Hyperterminal

[gatewa...@yahoo.com]

Hi all,
I've been wanting a way of transferring BASIC programs from my Apple II+ to a modern computer for a while now. I just wanted a way to backup my programs onto text files. I finally got a serial to USB cable and downloaded the trial version of HyperTerminal. (I wanted to be sure I could get it to work before I paid for the full version). It's KIND of working, but I'm having some problems and I was hoping someone could help. I've never done this before and had to look it up. I'm connecting the Apple II to a modern laptop running Windows 10.

Going by what I read, in HyperTerminal I set the bitrate to 300 baud, 8 data bits, no parity, 1 stop bits, and no flow control. I set the emulation to "TTY."

If I put the Super Serial Card in the Apple II+ into terminal mode, I can send stuff TO the Apple II (by typing in HyperTerminal or transferring text files). But I can't receive anything FROM it. If I try to type on the Apple II keyboard, nothing shows up in HyperTerminal. If type in the command "PR#1" on the Apple, I do get something in HyperTerminal, but it's just weird characters.

I should also explain how I have the cables set up. I have a modem cable connected to the Super Serial Card. I had to do that because I found an ImageWriter printer and wanted to connect it to the Apple, but the only cable I was able to find online uses modem wiring. So I had to set the jumper block on the serial card to "modem" to get it to work. I then have the cable connected to a data switch, with another cable connected with a null-modem adapter. That way, I can easily switch between the printer or connecting with another computer without having to disconnect any cables. I know it works, I actually have connected the Apple II with other vintage computers. But is it possible that the modem cable is causing some kind of problem transmitting to HyperTerminal? I though that using the "T" terminal command in the Apple II overrides the jumper settings?
Any ideas why I can send data TO the Apple II, but not FROM it?

I'd really appreciate any help!

-Chris

[awanderin]

I'd check the flow-control settings and turn them all off to start.

If Hyperterminal is watching either the DSR/DTR lines or the RTS/CTS
lines, that might be the problem.

What I would do though is try to trace the signals from computer to
computer, and match up the senders and receivers (TxD/RxD, DTR/DSR,
RTS/CTS)

Not all serial interfaces and/or software watch all those lines, but if
they do, and they're in the wrong state, they'll just sit there.

RS-232 was often a mess, as I recall.

I'd like to know what the true problem was when you get it working.


--
--
Jerry awanderin at gmail dot com

[Kent Dickey]

In article <3c80188f-72b1-4c1f...@googlegroups.com>,

gatewa...@yahoo.com <gatewa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Hi all,
>I've been wanting a way of transferring BASIC programs from my Apple II+
>to a modern computer for a while now. I just wanted a way to backup my
>programs onto text files. I finally got a serial to USB cable and
>downloaded the trial version of HyperTerminal. (I wanted to be sure I
>could get it to work before I paid for the full version). It's KIND of
>working, but I'm having some problems and I was hoping someone could
>help. I've never done this before and had to look it up. I'm connecting
>the Apple II to a modern laptop running Windows 10.
>
>Going by what I read, in HyperTerminal I set the bitrate to 300 baud, 8
>data bits, no parity, 1 stop bits, and no flow control. I set the
>emulation to "TTY."
>
>If I put the Super Serial Card in the Apple II+ into terminal mode, I
>can send stuff TO the Apple II (by typing in HyperTerminal or
>transferring text files). But I can't receive anything FROM it. If I try
>to type on the Apple II keyboard, nothing shows up in HyperTerminal. If
>type in the command "PR#1" on the Apple, I do get something in
>HyperTerminal, but it's just weird characters.

I suspect the Apple II is setting the high bit in the bytes it's sending
over the serial cable, and this is interpreted by the PC as special
characters.

See if there's a mode in Hyperterminal to ignore the high-bits of bytes
it receives. If not, maybe you can try setting Hyperterminal to
7 data bits, no parity, 2 stop bits (as a way to get it to ignore the
high-order bit, but I don't know if that would work).

If you could run a terminal program of any type on the Apple II, that
would most likely work better, since it will make sure it communicates
properly with the PC.

Kent

[Hugh Hood]

On 10/19/2021 4:54 PM, gatewa...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> If type in the command "PR#1" on the Apple, I do get something in
> HyperTerminal, but it's just weird characters.
>

Chris,

To expand on what Ken suggested, you can also instruct your Super Serial
Card on the Apple II to strip the high bit by transmitting using SPACE
parity.

If we assume HyperTerminal wants to see 8 data bits, 1 stop bit and NO
parity, you can send characters from the Apple II with the high bit
clear by using 7 data bits, 1 stop bit and SPACE parity on the SSC.

Depending upon whether you are in Printer Mode (command character 'x' =
<CTRL-I> ) or Communications Mode (command character 'x' = <CTRL-A> ),
you would send the following sequence after typing PR#1:

<x>1D <return> <x>7P <return>

{substitute your command character for <x>}





Hugh Hood

[gatewa...@yahoo.com]

Update! It works in both directions now! I actually decided to download another terminal emulation program, called "Putty." It seems to have a lot more options and features (and it's free!) I changed the setting to 7 bits, and I was able to send data from the Apple II.
I just used the "PR#1" command and now everything I type on the Apple II shows up correctly in the Putty terminal window on the modern laptop. I was able to send over an entire BASIC program by using "LIST." Then I just copied the text from Putty and pasted it into a text file. I finally have the Apple BASIC programs I made backed up onto a modern computer!

I noticed one minor issue. In order to send data TO the Apple II, I have to change the setting back to 8 bits. Otherwise, if I try to type anything on Putty, garbage shows up on the Apple II and then of course it starts beeping like crazy and saying "Syntax error"! It's weird how the setting is different for sending VS receiving. I'll have to look again at the suggestions everyone replied with earlier. It's not really a big deal though, it's pretty easy to change the settings. The important thing is that at least it WORKS! I can finally transfer BASIC programs to and from the Apple II with a modern computer! I like using floppy disks for the nostalgia and "authentic experience," but gives peace of mind to know I can also back everything up on modern storage!

Thanks to everyone for your help and quick replies.
- Chris

[Hugh Hood]

in article GYudnfSdeqGBOPL8...@earthlink.com, Hugh Hood at
hugh...@earthlink.net wrote on 10/20/21 12:11 AM:

>
> To expand on what Ken suggested
>

Apologies to KENT Dickey. I really should proof better.



Hugh Hood

[Scott Alfter]

In article <3c80188f-72b1-4c1f...@googlegroups.com>,
gatewa...@yahoo.com <gatewa...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Hi all,
>I've been wanting a way of transferring BASIC programs from my Apple II+
>to a modern computer for a while now. I just wanted a way to backup my
>programs onto text files. I finally got a serial to USB cable and
>downloaded the trial version of HyperTerminal. (I wanted to be sure I
>could get it to work before I paid for the full version). It's KIND of
>working, but I'm having some problems and I was hoping someone could
>help. I've never done this before and had to look it up. I'm connecting
>the Apple II to a modern laptop running Windows 10.
>
>Going by what I read, in HyperTerminal I set the bitrate to 300 baud, 8
>data bits, no parity, 1 stop bits, and no flow control. I set the
>emulation to "TTY."
>
>If I put the Super Serial Card in the Apple II+ into terminal mode, I
>can send stuff TO the Apple II (by typing in HyperTerminal or
>transferring text files). But I can't receive anything FROM it. If I try
>to type on the Apple II keyboard, nothing shows up in HyperTerminal. If
>type in the command "PR#1" on the Apple, I do get something in
>HyperTerminal, but it's just weird characters.

The text sent by the Apple II from BASIC will have the high bit set. That's
why you're getting garbage characters. Perhaps selecting 7E1 instead of 8N1
would fix that, but the bigger problem is that your connection is only
one-way. Back in the day, I ran ProTERM on the Apple II side and used
whatever on the other side to send files via ZMODEM between the two
machines. ProTERM won't be an option for your II+ (it requires at least a
IIe with a 65C02, and it'll look better with the enhanced IIe ROMs), but
there are other communication programs that will work on the II+.

Perhaps ADTPro would be a better option:

https://www.adtpro.com/

It's intended specifically to get files onto and off of any Apple II. It'll
bootstrap over the serial port (or even the cassette port), and it only
requires 64K (which is what ProDOS requires).

Looking at the instructions for bootstrapping ADTPro over the serial port,
reference is made to some key sequences to be pressed after IN#2. Perhaps
they might be useful in configuring the SSC to work for blasting a BASIC
program (or a hex dump) over from another computer as well.

(You can probably get away with much more than 300 bps, BTW. ProTERM on a
IIGS would work reliably up to 57.6 kbps, IIRC. An SSC won't be as fast,
but you could start at 19.2 kbps and work down from there...limiting factor
will be the time needed to tokenize each line as it's sent.)

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

[Tim Riker]

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 11:28:44 AM UTC-6, Scott Alfter wrote:

> Looking at the instructions for bootstrapping ADTPro over the serial port,
> reference is made to some key sequences to be pressed after IN#2. Perhaps
> they might be useful in configuring the SSC to work for blasting a BASIC
> program (or a hex dump) over from another computer as well.
>
> (You can probably get away with much more than 300 bps, BTW. ProTERM on a
> IIGS would work reliably up to 57.6 kbps, IIRC. An SSC won't be as fast,
> but you could start at 19.2 kbps and work down from there...limiting factor
> will be the time needed to tokenize each line as it's sent.)

The Super Serial Card will handle up to 19200 normally. ADTPro and other apps can bypass the built in options and run it at 115,200.

Change the speed, and data format as needed and then to a PR#1 and a LIST. The speed and parity on the SSC needs to match the speed and parity on HyperTerminal.

https://mirrors.apple2.org.za/Apple%20II%20Documentation%20Project/Interface%20Cards/Serial/Apple%20II%20Super%20Serial%20Card/Manuals/Apple%20II%20Super%20Serial%20Card%20-%20Installation%20and%20Operating%20Manual%201981.pdf