Tom Turley: Banned from Attending K-Fest '97
stephen e buggie
"DR. TOM" TURLEY HAS BEEN BANNED FROM ATTENDING K-FEST 1997
===========================================================
Charles "Dr. Tom" Turley is holds the undisputed title of most unpopular person in the A2 world. His
past sins included pirating of current software, and sector-editing software. Those activities were
done in the distant past. He has apologized to those whom he offended or injured.
I attended Kansasfest 1996 and urge others to attend this year. I wrote a positive report on last year's
event (KansasFest Pilgrimage, II ALIVE, Fall 1996 issue).
At my urging, Tom Turley applied to attend this year's K-Fest, and he was turned down, on the grounds
that his unpopularity would make him a controversial disruptive presence at the event.
I am upset by the ban against his attendance. Turley knows that he's unpopular, yet he has the courage
to attend. He also has the potential to make various positive contributions to KFest ---- He is very
knowledgeable about hardware and software, and has been the first to know about new products not yet
released. He is a close personal friend of our founder, Steve Wozniak (Tom got the 'Woz to autograph
one of my business cards for me!).
Its upsetting that the KFest ban against Turley appears to be a special rule directed against him only;
like a law made retroactive and to apply against one person. If attenders must meet particular
standards to attend K-Fest, then the standards should be publicized in advance. Behavioral standards
should be applied to actions done after the standards have been set.
I disagree that Turley is likely to be disruptive. In November last year, I attended an academic
meeting in San Francisco and invited Turley to meet me. He visited at my hotel room for 2-3 hours, and
we had a fine conversation about our shared interests focused on the Apple II. None of his actions were
disruptive or even impolite. If other attenders were to act aggressively towards Turley at K-Fest, then
THEY are the disruptors, not mild-mannered Dr. Tom!
At KansasFest, about half the attenders are "old-timers" who attend annually, and half are newcomers, as
I was last year. As a newcomer, I'd like to meet as many of the Apple II celebrities as possible. Tom,
despite his noteriety, is one of those celebrities. Let's let him attend!
I can't attend myself this year, due to financial reasons. I expect my finances to improve in '98 and
will make a strong effort to attend this year. Readers should attend KFest '97 regardless of the
outcome of the Turley banning. But I urge the planning committee to reconsider the earlier decision
about Dr. Tom.
Finally, Tom's finances are limited and the travel costs discourage him from attending KFest. If the
organizing committee reconsiders its decision, I'd pledge a contribution of $15 towards his travel costs.
Steve Buggie bug...@unm.edu
Adalbert Goertz
re
At my urging, Tom Turley applied to attend this year's K-Fest, and he was turned
down, on the grounds
that his unpopularity would make him a controversial disruptive presence at the
event.
Adalbert Goertz responds >>>>>>>>>>>>
It this the attitude of the K-Fest organizers, then I wouldnt have anything
to do with them.
--
**************** Adalbert Goertz ****** ph 717-762-7378 ********
retired in Waynesboro PA (65 miles from Baltimore/Washington DC
Mennonite genealogy of East and West Prussia prior to 1945.
Want house in Colorado/New Mexico/Texas/Arizona for two retirees
Joe Kohn
>Charles "Dr. Tom" Turley is holds the undisputed title of most
>unpopular person in the A2 world. His past sins included
>pirating of current software, and sector-editing software. T
>hose activities were done in the distant past. He has apologized
>to those whom he offended or injured.
Brutal Deluxe's two commercial software products to an ftp site.
Not only didn't he ever apologize, he denied that he had anything to do
with this incident, despite the fact that log files maintained by his ISP
showed he uploaded the software and because of those logs, his ISP
terminated his account.
Read all about it at: http://www.cyberstation.fr/~zardini
Adalbert Goertz
As long as the K-Fest organizers decide to ban ANYBODY from attending,
the K-Fest should be boycotted.
Charles T. 'Dr. Tom' Turley
Joko posted with quotes and comments from some unknown thread - (as I
can't even access it with the following:
>Charles "Dr. Tom" Turley is holds the undisputed title of most
>unpopular person in the A2 world. His past sins included
>pirating of current software, and sector-editing software. T
>hose activities were done in the distant past. He has apologized
>to those whom he offended or injured.
And Joko retorts:
"Excuse me. It was on February 5, 1997 that he uploaded pirated copies
of
Brutal Deluxe's two commercial software products to an ftp site.
Not only didn't he ever apologize, he denied that he had anything to do
with this incident, despite the fact that log files maintained by his
ISP
showed he uploaded the software and because of those logs, his ISP
terminated his account.
Read all about it at: http://www.cyberstation.fr/~zardini
"
ctu...@grin.net replies:
Excuse me - Joe Kohn, nobody proved anything about ME doing any of the
above and I still claim that I DID NOT do it. Yes, it was done from my
old ISP wco.com acct. Yes, it happened on 2/5/97 - But, I did not do
it.
Somebody else did it from my old ISP acct. after obtaining the password
to access my acct. from me to update their web page in the US-
A2WUG area - during my absents for the weekend. And, they also did a
GREAT job of faking and mailing two emails from my old ISP acct, using
my name and a very close rendering of my writing style.
Zardini's web site is a joke - filled with ignorant speculation having
no bvasis of any proof that I did anything, because I DID NOT do it.
Yes, in my ignorance of allowing somebody (JB) (who never sent me the
programs in question) to have access to my web site with the password, I
left myself wide opened for this and must bare the results!
Non-the-less, I did not personally do the uploads of the BD software to
the ftp site mentioned, nor did I instruct anybody to do it from my old
ISP (wco.com) acct. It was done from my old ISP acct. without my
knowledge, consent or endorsement. I'm simply not that stupid to cut my
own throat with such a childish and blatantly traceable action from my
own acct.
Neither did I ever upload anything to anybody- anywhere that had
anything to do with anything you sell or distributre (excluding the one
ignorant incident with the Pacmania archive - which I've stated in
public - was done by me, in inocent ignorance of the content and status,
promptly removed it when advised to and made a public post and apoligy
for that error and mistake)
Believe it or not, I really don't care what you or anybody else thinks
any more - last chapter - end of story!
Neither you (Joe Kohn, BD, Ian Schmidt, Richard Bennett or any others -
who hate my presents are going to run me away from the A2 community with
your minipulative politics and elite circle of power tricks, lies and
misinformation campaign tactics.
Civil Wars are not very productive in a community such as the Apple II
community, so why continue with such? Civil Wars have never proved to
be productive in any manner, and I want engage in such efforts with you
or any of the others.
Now, unless you want to reactivate the 'Days of Terror' on this CSA2
newsgroup again - I urge you and all the others making these posts to
please give it up, get smart and try to concern yourselves, your own
productive and constructive A2 efforts and (you - Joe Kohn) with your
next issue of SSII and not with the historical-gossip, histerical,
ignorant speculation and ignorant rags and rants - concerning ME! You
want to put this crap where it really should be put - then put it in
SSII - in your 'Lies, Lies, And More Lies' By Professor G.S. Gumby.
Cheers,
Tom
PS: If I wanted to attend K-Fest-97, I could and I would! I don't and I
won't attend such an event and be humiliated and bathed with hate by you
and most of the others that will be attending. I'm not in to public
pain and hate - nor is there anything worth my going to K-Fest-97 for.
You can all do a 'Roast Dr. Tom' this year, video-tape it and sell it
to raise some money for your A2 efforts in the future.
Charles T. 'Dr. Tom' Turley
Additionally, before this newsgroup starts churning and burning again
with third-handed gossip and misinformation - over my alledged PAST
piracy, bad habits, ignorance, lack of having teeth and the likes, allow
me to make a public blanket acknowledgement of accepting complete
responsibility and asking for forgivness - for everything I've been
accused of (including - but, not limited to; being involved with the
assinations of JFK, Martin Luther King, being completely responsible for
the elimination of the Apple II computer line by Apple Computer, Inc,,
ETC.)
Now can we ALL please go on with some useful efforts and post things
that really do concern something PRODUCTIVE for the Apple II community,
and try to forget about 'Burning Dr. Tom at the Stake' or agruing about
my past, present or future efforts in the A2 community?
Cheers,
Tom
Michael Elliott
Oh no- here we go again.
Let me save you all the trouble and bandwidth-
I will write the next 50 csa2 posts in brief for you:
"I hate Dr.Tom"
"Leave Dr.Tom alone"
"Dr. Tom Turly is a mutant Mac-loving antichrist"
"You're an idiot"
"Shutup"
"Dork"
"Butthead"
(pause)
"So, anyone seen that new Web Browser?"
"yeah, I heard Dr.Tom uploaded an illegal copy of it"
"Shutup"
"Dork"
"Butthead" ............. etc etc etc
nuff said?
-Michael
Joe Kohn (jo...@crl.com) writes:
> >Charles "Dr. Tom" Turley is holds the undisputed title of most
> >unpopular person in the A2 world. His past sins included
> >pirating of current software, and sector-editing software. T
> >hose activities were done in the distant past. He has apologized
> >to those whom he offended or injured.
>
> Excuse me. It was on February 5, 1997 that he uploaded pirated copies of
> Brutal Deluxe's two commercial software products to an ftp site.
>
> Not only didn't he ever apologize, he denied that he had anything to do
> with this incident, despite the fact that log files maintained by his ISP
> showed he uploaded the software and because of those logs, his ISP
> terminated his account.
>
> Read all about it at: http://www.cyberstation.fr/~zardini
>
>
--
X X X XXX X X XX XXXX X Michael S. Elliott
XX XX X X XXXX X X XXX X msel...@wsuhub.uc.twsu.edu
X XX X X X X X XXXX X X cv...@freenet.carleton.ca
X X X XXX X X X X XXXX XXXX http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2907
Kevin Noonan
Adalbert Goertz (be...@yfn.ysu.edu) wrote:
: re
: At my urging, Tom Turley applied to attend this year's K-Fest, and he was
: turned down, on the grounds
: Adalbert Goertz responds >>>>>>>>>>>>
: It this the attitude of the K-Fest organizers, then I wouldnt have anything
: to do with them.
: --
: **************** Adalbert Goertz ****** ph 717-762-7378 ********
And I bet they are terrified by your threat of not having anything to do
with them :)
Kevin Noonan
k...@crafti.com.au
Todays quote:
A good cure for insomnia is to get plenty of sleep
ctu...@grin.net
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
stroker_ace_][
That's right. It's always someone else who broke into your home.
Why not just change your name to The Victim?
Paul Zaleski
stephen e buggie <bug...@musca.unm.edu> wrote in article
<5modvc$vhk$1...@lynx.unm.edu>...
> "DR. TOM" TURLEY HAS BEEN BANNED FROM ATTENDING
K-FEST 1997
>
===========================================================
>
>
> Charles "Dr. Tom" Turley is holds the undisputed title of most unpopular
person in the A2 world. His
> past sins included pirating of current software, and sector-editing
software. Those activities were
> done in the distant past. He has apologized to those whom he offended or
injured.
>
I certainly don't have a problem with it... If Mr. Turley is in any
way disruptive, I'm absolutely sure that the addendees would have no
problem with lynching the guy, or have him walk the plank for that matter.
That's what the balconies are for anyhow, right? Besides, we could always
use a new event at kfest. First came the Roast, this would be the next
generation of entertainment at Avila.
-paul
Geoff Weiss
Adalbert Goertz <be...@yfn.ysu.edu> wrote:
>
>As long as the K-Fest organizers decide to ban ANYBODY from attending,
>the K-Fest should be boycotted.
Let me buy you a clue (clue for $1000, Alex).
1) Were you planning to show up? If not, then why do you care?
2) Having Dr. Tom at KansasFest is like having a Jewish person
or a black person at a KKK rally. Can you say "living hell,"
"haze" and "not a happy camper?"
3) I believe for the sanity and safety of all attendees at KansasFest,
it would be best for the Dr. Tom to not show up. Several people
have announced that potentially destructive activities would occur
if Dr. Tom attended. It could have been for that reason why the
KansasFest committee decided that Dr. Tom would not be welcomed
(which I believe was the actual phrasing, not this "ban" crud that
Dr. Tom made Dr. Buggie post).
Geoff
P.S. For anybody still reading this thread, KansasFest '97 should be the
best one in years. Not attending will miss out demos and annoucements
of the hottest software of this year. I can guarantee that there will
be tons of surprises.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
e-mail: ge...@hermesnet.net System Administrator for Hermes Internet Service
WWW: <a href=http://www.hermesnet.net/~geoff>Geoff's Home Page</a>
The report of my death was greatly exaggerated. -- Mark Twain
Nathan Mates
In article <5mq0nb$m...@news.ysu.edu>,
Adalbert Goertz <be...@yfn.ysu.edu> wrote:
>As long as the K-Fest organizers decide to ban ANYBODY from attending,
>the K-Fest should be boycotted.
I think they're just applying "Megan's Law"[1] to Apple II
development. Good call; I think that if Turley showed up, more time
would be wasted lynching him for his crimes than doing anything
productive. Hmmm. Sounds like csa2-- Turley's essentially juggling
open cans of gasoline and flaming torches every time he posts his
lies, and wondering why the group is so much more disruptive when he's
around. Guess he's just too dense in the mental department to realize
that *he's* the problem, and that peace and him are mutually
impossible.
Nathan Mates
[1] For those of you outside of the US, this is one of a series of
similar laws requiring police to notify the community when a
registered sex offender moves in. Named after Megan [forget last name]
who was killed by a pedophile living across the street from her, and
whose parents were not notified of the fact. Community pressure has
done an effective job of keeping such folks away from living near
schools, etc.
--
<*> Nathan Mates http://www.visi.com/~nathan/ <*>
# What are the facts? Again and again and again-- what are the _facts_?
# Shun wishful thinking, avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors
# think-- what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? -R.A. Heinlein
Marvin
Geoff Weiss (ge...@seeker.hermesnet.net) wrote:
: 1) Were you planning to show up? If not, then why do you care?
Right! Please tell us if you would come, Dr. Tom.
: 2) Having Dr. Tom at KansasFest is like having a Jewish person
: or a black person at a KKK rally. Can you say "living hell,"
: "haze" and "not a happy camper?"
Oops! A KKK rally isn't a really good comparison, is it? ;)
: 3) I believe for the sanity and safety of all attendees at KansasFest,
: it would be best for the Dr. Tom to not show up. Several people
: have announced that potentially destructive activities would occur
: if Dr. Tom attended. It could have been for that reason why the
: KansasFest committee decided that Dr. Tom would not be welcomed
: (which I believe was the actual phrasing, not this "ban" crud that
: Dr. Tom made Dr. Buggie post).
Hey, I would not only allow Dr. Tom at the KansasFest, I would make him
the candidate for the annual roast! If he has something useful to report,
this would be a perfect opportunity. On the other hand, if someone
accuses him of being a liar, he has the opportunity for bringing some
serious arguments, too. If you can stand it without retracting to
flames, you can all give your best here! :)
The script of the "Roast" can then be converted to a Hyperstudio stack
and be sold for $5 in Joe Kohn's SSII library for the amusement of all
KansasFest visitors. :D
Now that would be a real challenge for everyone. I think Dr. Tom would
be very startled if he will be welcomed by a critical but not
hostile Apple II community and can even bring the one or the other
of his own surprises... :)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
It startled him even more when just after he __
was awarded the Galactic Institute's Prize |\/| /\ |__|| | | |\ |
for Extreme Cleverness he got lynched by a | ||__||\ | | | | \ |
rampaging mob of respectable physicists who | || || \ \/ | | \|
had finally realized that the one thing
they really couldn't stand was a smartass.
Need Apple II gs software? Visit ftp.uni-kl.de...
Visit the Vogon hold at http://www.student.uni-kl.de/~guenter/vogon.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
rich...@genie.com
bug...@musca.unm.edu (stephen e buggie) writes:
> "DR. TOM" TURLEY HAS BEEN BANNED FROM ATTENDING K-FEST 1997
> ===========================================================
>Charles "Dr. Tom" Turley is holds the undisputed title of most unpopular person in the A2 world. His
>past sins included pirating of current software, and sector-editing software. Those activities were
>done in the distant past. He has apologized to those whom he offended or injured.
Not in all cases he hasn't. He selectively apologises to those he needs to
use.
>I am upset by the ban against his attendance. Turley knows that he's unpopular, yet he has the courage
>to attend. He also has the potential to make various positive contributions to KFest ---- He is very
Turdbag has no positive contribution to anything, except his own lying
thieving and an all round arsehole.
>knowledgeable about hardware and software,
He knows jack beyond what any other long time user would know. Publishers
and developers in the Apple II community steer clear of him.
> and has been the first to know about new products not yet
>released.
Such as? And don't bring out the old Tiger Learning Computer rubbish. That
information was plastered all over the media and Genie before Turdbag even
knew about it. As for other "new" products, considering most publishers and
developers think he's an arsehole and want nothing to do with him, WHAT new
products does he know so much about that nobody else does?
>He is a close personal friend of our founder, Steve Wozniak (Tom got the 'Woz to autograph
>one of my business cards for me!).
...and Eva Braun was a close personal friend of Adolf Hitler. What does this
have to do with anything? Turdbag has an amazing ability to be able to
convince people he's "just a nice guy". Turn your back and he'll fuck you
over before you can say "II Alive is a really good magazine."
>Its upsetting that the KFest ban against Turley appears to be a special rule directed against him only;
>like a law made retroactive and to apply against one person. If attenders must meet particular
>standards to attend K-Fest, then the standards should be publicized in advance. Behavioral standards
>should be applied to actions done after the standards have been set.
So they should also draw up rules in advance just in case a known pedophile
attends? Or in case John Sculley turns up. Or...
>I disagree that Turley is likely to be disruptive. In November last year, I attended an academic
>meeting in San Francisco and invited Turley to meet me. He visited at my hotel room for 2-3 hours, and
>we had a fine conversation about our shared interests focused on the Apple II. None of his actions were
I wonder why some people see Turley this way, yet when they start releasing
their own products, or start standing on their own two feet, Turdbag is the
first to cut them down or stab them in the back. You know he has these
little stupid groups, why can't people stand for themselves, why do they
need a supposed mentor? Can't people think for themselves for the common
good?
>disruptive or even impolite. If other attenders were to act aggressively towards Turley at K-Fest, then
>THEY are the disruptors, not mild-mannered Dr. Tom!
Mild-mannered schizophrenic. You do know that he takes prescription drugs
for his mental condition, don't you? You of all people should have noticed
this at your "meeting" with him. Should I summarize schizophrenia for people:
"psychosis characterised by breakdown of integrated personality functioning,
withdrawal from reality, emotional blunting and distortion, and disturbances
in thought and behaviour."
>I can't attend myself this year, due to financial reasons. I expect my finances to improve in '98 and
>will make a strong effort to attend this year. Readers should attend KFest '97 regardless of the
This is a pity Steve, I bought one of your power supplies last year, and I'd
like to meet you again.
>outcome of the Turley banning. But I urge the planning committee to reconsider the earlier decision
>about Dr. Tom.
I'd love to meet Dr. Tom, so I can let him know exactly what I think about
his fifteen years of lying, thieving and sticking his fingers up at the very
publishers and developers who are keeping our community alive.
Regards,
Richard Bennett
Apple II forever!
--
td...@n0spamhypermall.com
In article <5mtftl$h...@seeker.hermesnet.net>, ge...@seeker.hermesnet.net says...
>
>Adalbert Goertz <be...@yfn.ysu.edu> wrote:
>>
>>As long as the K-Fest organizers decide to ban ANYBODY from attending,
>>the K-Fest should be boycotted.
>
>
Yes, good point.
>2) Having Dr. Tom at KansasFest is like having a Jewish person
> or a black person at a KKK rally. Can you say "living hell,"
> "haze" and "not a happy camper?"
I really don't agree with this analogy, it's just a tad bit out of context.
It's more like having Roaches in the Doughnut Shop. It may be fun to stomp,
but it sure sucks to eat them.
Good Grief Charley Brown.
Hey, KFest has appeared to have started early this year. csa2 has become the
wall and common area outside Ridgway Hall. We're all here to have a good time.
--
td...@hypermall.com -- http://www.hypermall.com/~tdiaz Apple ][ Forever!
The Apple II in Pictures: A Virtual Apple II Museum.
"Citabria Six Niner Foxtrot, Inbound over Oceanside with Whiskey"
Charles T. 'Dr. Tom' Turley
Thanks for the feedback Stroker! NOBODY is the REAL victim!
Hey, maybe I will go after all. That should stimulate ticket sales!
After all - what do I care who spews what verbal hostilities at me. I
get them here every day now anyway. It actually might be fun to meet all
the people that have grown to hate me so much over the past years.
Be prepared KansasFest-97 attendees and take careful note, physically -
I'm a cream-puff, non-voilent person and don't believe in any form of
physical violence or aggressive actions. Verbally, I can be a monster -
if need be :)
If I do attend, I'll be sure to bring a body-guard and a mediator, in
the unlikely event that things don't stay peaceful from the attendees
end - that is. I certainly have no reason to provoke any violent
actions, but you never know what the KansasFest-97 attendees might try
to pull on me, if I do go. Should I wear flame-proof clothing and bring
a fire extinguisher?
Cheers,
Tom
Charles T. 'Dr. Tom' Turley
dyn...@en.com...You wrote...Oh yes they will. You called that one
right for sure. Glad to see others are composing some stories about our
beloved Apple II community, to be specific; the few - the proud, the
misinformed, the elite, the we know what we knowabout Dr. Tom is PURE
truth because Richard, Ian and Joko told us so, it's tricks, muscle
tactic politics, KKK styles and it's organized crime efforts to control
and minipulate anything or anybody that rocks its power waves!
I've got a ton of RED HOT goodies to furnish you for such efforts. Just
email me or better yet give me a voice call (415) 468-1609 (call collect
PLEASE. Hey, I know Hot Wired - for one would love to get their hands on
this baby. And we also have our own NEW A2 publication that ain't
scared to tell it like it REALLY is- with the RJB, IRSman and Joko
errors, ignorance and all the rest.
Cheers to an Old Pillar!
Tom
Charles T. 'Dr. Tom' Turley
from: cturley2grin.net in detailed response concerning:
From - Tue Jun 3 05:59:55 1997
From: rich...@genie.com
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Subject:Re: Tom Turley: Banned from Attending K-Fest '97
Date: 2 Jun 1997 00:48:42 GMT Organization: via GEnie Information
Systems
Lines: 86 Sender: rich...@genie.com (Richard Bennett)
Message-ID: <5mt59a$q...@rock101.genie.net> References:
<5modvc$vhk$1...@lynx.unm.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rock103.is.ge.com
bug...@musca.unm.edu (stephen e buggie) writes: >
rich...@genie.com replies: >>
ctu...@grin.net responds: **
>"DR. TOM" TURLEY HAS BEEN BANNED FROM ATTENDING K-FEST 1997
>===========================================================
>Charles "Dr. Tom" Turley is holds the undisputed title of most
unpopular person in the A2 world. His past sins included
pirating of current software, and sector-editing software.
Those activities were >done in the distant past. He has
apologized to those whom he offended or injured.
>>Not in all cases he hasn't. He selectively apologises to
those he needs to use.
**I've tried to be as friendly as humanly possible with
everybody involved with the A2 community. As much as I'd like
to be friendly and cooperate with every A2 user, developer and
programer on this planet, I'm a realist and know that is not
possible. Nor, will I sit back after being needlessly,
smeared, snubbed, belittled, humiliated, slandered, trashed out
in public and forget about it, without firing back to set the
records straight! I've also made several blanket apologies to
this newsgroup on several occasions, (the most recent being 2
days ago) for any problems and/or hassles I may have causes or
provoked - concerning EVERYTHING. How many times must I make
such blanket public apoligies? For what it's worth Richard
Bennett - I'm doing it here once again NOW - just for YOU!
So, to satisfy your persistant demands - I specifically make
this public uttering and apoligize to you - Richard Bennett
for whatever you seem to be offended by concerning any of my
actions. I'm so very sorry - please forgive me!
We've covered all this in email before - with cross flames and
insults, name calling and the likes - let's end it now with
this public reply. And, I have no interest in using you in the
least. Some of your fine programs maybe - for my own personal
computer needs, but have no desire to use you as an individual
for anything what-so-ever.
I'm fairly sure we could even converse in public with a
friendly nature - given the chance to do so. Who knows, maybe I
might just be able to pay a casual visit to KF-97 and we could
entertaint the crowd with a civil discussion and debate on
issues you'd like to clear up concerning me.
As for using others, that's what we all do, all the time - to
one degree or another. I see nothing wrong with it either - as
long as mutual respect and mutual use is considered and not
abused.
>I am upset by the ban against his attendance. Turley knows
that he's unpopular, yet he has the courage to attend. He
also has the potential to make various positive contributions
to KFest ---- He is very
>>Turdbag has no positive contribution to anything, except his
own lying thieving and an all round arsehole.
**You seem to have this facination and obsession with using
vulgar slurs against people, especially with words dealing
with feces and the openings from which it originates. You must
have some form of coprophilia complex of something to that
effect. You keep calling me a lying, thieving all around arsehole,
turdbag, etc - yet, you've never had any personal encounters
with me - face-to-face, not one! Perhaps that will change this
July.
You base your feelings about me on what you've read and been
told by others, who heard it from others, who heard it from
still others. That's third-hard gossip, misinformation and
twisted rumors - nothing more! And your basing you public
comments and thoughts about me from such gossip is nothing but
ignorance. Unless you have undeniable proof that I'm a REAL
turdbag, lying, thieving - all round arsehole - from your own
personal face-to-face experiences with me, you really should
NOT show your ignorance by posting such stuff in this public
newsgroup..
As to your comments that I have no positive contribution to
anything, I dont code or program - everybody knows that and I
don't design hardware either - but, I can hold up a list of
positive contributions to the A2 community that will match
anything you can list and then some! Sure, you code and
program and do a damned fine job of it too. I use many of your
programs and respect your talent. There are many methods to
make useful contributions to the A2 community besides coding
and creating programs for it.
>knowledgeable about hardware and software,
>>He knows jack beyond what any other long time user would
know. Publishers and developers in the Apple II community
steer clear of him.
That's simply not true Richard. I'll show you what I know - if
and when we ever have the chance to meet and discuss this
face-to-face. I can out do your talents in music and art any
day buddy. I promote every commercial product known for the
Apple II line of computers - with every chance I can from my
web sites. I don't devote space to put down peoples efforts
like you do on your web site with the turkey folder either.
I've spent a great deal of time and money developing software
with others, asking no credit for my efforts and I think my
efforts to transfer the entire AOL A2 archives to Ground are
very beneficial to the general A2 com unity needs. I have a
friendly relationship with Earl Childers, Mike Westerfield,
Roger Wagner, the staff of SQC, Steve Kavanaugh, Ben Johnson,
Ian Brumby, even your old x-buddy Alex :) and a few others I
won't bother to list here. I even have a fair relationship
with Tony Diaz, (designer of the Turley-Lie-detector system).
Had a fairly cordial relationship with Jawaid, before he sold
out to the gang of Turley-haters. Sure some people in the A2
community don't want to be tainted with associations with me -
fine and dandy. I can't please everybody and ain't about to
try! And, I've hocked many developers and programmers up with
each other - to try and assist them with working together on
past projects. Some succeeded - some didn't.
When you get black-balled by Joko - it's sort of hard to get a
friendly relationship working with many folks in the A2
community, but not everybody listens to Joko any more - so, I
do have a fair share of friendly relationships within the A2
community even with his efforts to drive me away, with every
chance he gets. We both know what your really want to do with
this newsgroup and what you really think about everybody that
post to it, why you show your presents here from time to time
with your hateful rants and such, don't we? Perhaps, I'll
publish your email to me from a few months back, in the first
issue of A2-2000, so everybody can see what you really do think
about the users of this newsgroup. Sure, why not? People have
a right to know what you really think of the CSA2 newsgroup
user. Allow me to quote from the Dec. 1996, Vol. 3, Issue 3 of
Shareware Solutions II, page 12, col. 3 - 'Lies, Lies, And
More Lies - by Professor G. S. Gumby - Ask Mr 8-Ball:
"Gumby: It's been reported that a certain Aussie IIGS
programmer has begun a grassroots campaign to get the Usenet
newsgroup - comp.sys.apple2 - wiped off the face of the earth.
He says its because a small group of mental midgets have
scared the other participants away. Is it true?"
Well, I (good old Dr. Tom) say - no, not as far as I can see.
This certain Aussie IIGS programmer hasn't had much success
with his grassroots campaign to get the Usenet newsgroup -
comp.sys.apple2 - wiped off the face of the earth. I can
hardly keep up with all the useful and informative posts to
the CSA2 Usenet newsgroup - that continues to poor in, each
and every day - from worthwhile users, old and new alike. In
fact, I'd say this newsgroup has more productivity, life and
action to it now than it ever has in the past. Just take a
look at some of the proof archived via dejanews service, and
the links to it all I've put together from my web site;
http://www.grin.net/~cturley/gsezine/GS.WorldView/**A2GS.CSA2.DAY.BY.DAY
/
http://www.grin.net/~cturley/gsezine/GS.WorldView/*BARUDA/
http://www.grin.net/~cturley/gsezine/GS.WorldView/*CSA2.CHRONICLES/
It seems no matter how many mental midgets; Cold fusion,
Endless Mike, Nobody, IRSman, Matthew Carlson, Daver, Stroker
Ace, etc. and so on - they just can't seem to KILL CSA2. And
they never will. This newsgroup is not going to be stifled or
dominated and ruled either with; moderators, power-king's
ego-heads and the like either. Like the Usenet in general it's
a worldwide community of folks asking questions,, helping each
other, giving what they have to offer, with their own special
forms of talent, concern and worthwhile contributions - as
best trhey know how, for the love of it, for commercial
development and promotions, and so on. These pitiful, hateful
folks are not about to kill this newsgroup with all the
efforts they employ and all the tricks they try to envoke.
Give it up dudes - it's really just a waste of your time and
energy. CSA2 - just like the Apple ][ will exist forever. As
long as there are Apple ][ users, developers and programmers
that post to this newsgroup with productive, lively and
interesting contents, questions and calls for help, it's going
to go on forever!
>and has been the first to know about new products not yet
>released.
>>Such as? And don't bring out the old Tiger Learning Computer
rubbish. That information was plastered all over the media and
Genie before Turdbag even knew about it. As for other "new"
products, considering most publishers and developers think
he's an arsehole and want nothing to do with him, WHAT new
products does he know so much about that nobody else does?
**To many to list here Richard! Go check out my web site
sometime -hot shot. And, check it out real through too - don't
just skim over it all - like you usually do with everything
related to me, like everything else you collect, edit and
distort with; stupid comments, gossip, warped opinion and
misinformation that you use to update your web sites 'Turkey
folder with. I think you'll find lots of interesting new and
old A2 products, reviews, interviews, articles and lots of
stuff you can't find on Genie.
Sorry to say it but, let's be realistic about Genie, it's
dying fast with the A2 area - nobody in their right mind would
deny that it's not.
>He is a close personal friend of our founder, Steve Wozniak
(Tom got the 'Woz to autograph >one of my business cards for
me!).
>>...and Eva Braun was a close personal friend of Adolf Hitler.
What does this have to do with anything? Turdbag has an
amazing ability to be able to convince people he's "just a
nice guy". Turn your back and he'll fuck you over before you
can say "II Alive is a really good magazine."
**Well, I don't know anything about either Eva Braun or Adolf
Hitler, don't care to learn abut them either - never meet
them! I do know, like and respect Woz and he knows, likes and
respects my Apple II efforts also. We are good friends and we
have a good working relationship also. If it were not for my
meeting him back at the first US Festival in the early
eighties, I'd never have even bought an Apple computer.
I'll be sure to tell him your comments above - next time talk
to him. You've got my snail mail address Richard, send me
something for him to autograph, I've gotten him to autograph
lots of things for many people. He enjoys doing that! He's a
wonderful person with a heart of gold. He's changed the world
in so many ways for the good of millions of people. He read
the interview in the Summer 1996 Issue of II Alive, loved it
and even autographed copies of it for me and Rubywand.
So don't rag and dog-out my friendship with Steve Wozniak,
Rubywand, Steve Buggie or anybody else or I might just be
provoked to use something other than verbal debate and
discussions with you - should we ever meet up face-to-face.
Remember, a cream-puff, Turkey, Turdbag, (whatever you care
to call me) can get real messy and hard to handle when
squeezed to hard and to often!
We've all done things we regret, or ashamed of having done in
the past, including you, me, Steve, Rubywand and 'The Woz'.
We've learned from our past errors and try to not make such
errors with our current efforts. None of us are perfect and
never will be. I've got more of a life and more real friends
than you might think I have. So, don't squeeze the Turgbag to
hard, he just might leak all over you.
>Its upsetting that the KFest ban against Turley appears to be
a special rule directed against him only; like a law made
retroactive and to apply against one person. If attenders
must meet particular standards to attend K-Fest, then the
standards should be publicized in advance. Behavioral
standards should be applied to actions done after the
standards have been set.
>>So they should also draw up rules in advance just in case a
known pedophile attends? Or in case John Sculley turns up.
Or...
**Richard, such comments are uncalled for and very much out-of
place here. (A) I'm not a known pedophile, never have been a
pedophile and your using such a term to apply to me or imply
such is pure and utter bullshit! (B) Your comparing me with a
pedophile or with John Sculley are a gross insult, a very low
blow and prove exactly how little you know of me and just how
far you'll go to try an humiliate and smear me in the public
eye on this newsgroup.. Nathan Mates, Stroker Ace and a few
other buttheads also have implied to my being a pedophile with
recent posts and comparitive inserts of non-related
misinformation to this newsgroup. Well, allow me to clear this
matter up to the general public of this newsgroup. I have
never been a pedophile, and never would engage in such gross
pervesions. I'll tell you and everybody else reading this right now.
If I ever did see any pedophile activity occuring - I'd drag
the low-life, twisted pervert into the nearest police station myself,
demand his arrest and testify at the trial demanding a
conviction. That sort of stuff is the sickest perversion known
- IMHO and your relating such crap and comparision to me - is
just as sick and twisted as your being such yourself - like
wise the same goes for anybody else that would dare to make
such a comparison to me. in public or private for that matter.
None of this has any relationship relavence to my not being
welcome to attend KansdasFest-97 either! It's as devoid of
logic as compairing an Apple to an Kangaroo.
>I disagree that Turley is likely to be disruptive. In
November last year, I attended an academic meeting in San
Francisco and invited Turley to meet me. He visited at my
hotel room for 2-3 hours, and >we had a fine conversation
about our shared interests focused on the Apple II. None of
his actions were
>>I wonder why some people see Turley this way, yet when they
start releasing their own products, or start standing on their
own two feet, Turdbag is the first to cut them down or stab
them in the back. You know he has these little stupid groups,
why can't people stand for themselves, why do they need a
supposed mentor? Can't people think for themselves for the
common good?
**Richard, if you had the balls to meet with me face-to-face
and discuss your issues about me, with me and not with others,
you might see me in a completely different light! You know
where I live and your always welcome to pay me a visit,
whenever you happen to be in my area of the world. Remember,
you never really know what a person is like until you meet
them yourself. And, like I said, who knows that might just
happen this year at KansasFest-97. At least I hope so.
Concerning your other comments - please be specific, list the
products, people and names that I've been involved with, not
supported and have cut them down or stabed them in the back.
Come on, name them! And, give some good undisputed PROOF that
I've done such stuff with anybody, anything or any product,
software and/or hardware. You can't because such PROOF does
not exist. For anything you can list or any person you can
name -I can most certainly give you a valid response to prove
you WRONG! I support and do my very best possible to promote
all A2 efforts of development with hardawre and software, as
best I can. Don't base your feelings on all this third-handed
gossip, misinformation and the twisted-altered rumors you get
from the Turley-haters. That just don't cut it with any sort
of valid PROOF or REALITY of anything. If any of this crap
about me that's been circulating on the BBS', online forums
and IRC had any merit of reality to it, I'd have been locked
up in jail long ago.
>disruptive or even impolite. If other attenders were to act
aggressively towards Turley at K-Fest, then THEY are the
disruptors, not mild-mannered Dr. Tom!
>>Mild-mannered schizophrenic. You do know that he takes
prescription drugs for his mental condition, don't you? You of
all people should have noticed this at your "meeting" with
him. Should I summarize schizophrenia for people: "psychosis
characterised by breakdown of integrated personality
functioning, withdrawal from reality, emotional blunting and
distortion, and disturbances in thought and behaviour."
**Richard, first I'm not schizophrenic. Yes, I do have a mental
disability that is well maintained with one prescription drug,
namely I take Pemoline for a condition known as AADD or Adult
Attention Deficit Disorder. I'm sure Steve Buggie and anybody
else that reads this newsgroup should be aware of that mental
disability. I posted a detailed outline concerning it several
months ago on this newsgroup - at the insistance of Joe Kohn.
I'm also aware - as many medical researchers and practioners
are that there is a heated debate over the validity of the
existence of AADD. The same can be said for many CFS, of the
current rules and accepted laws with modern physics, computer
design theories, etc. Different views, debates, arguments,
thoughts and feeling on everything is what keeps all worlds
turning.
Steve Buggie never detected any sort of integrated personality
disorder or any form of psychosis during our meeting nor
during any of our dozens of lengthy telephone conversations.
If certain people have feelings or opinions about my varying
personalities expressed on this newsgroup - with my posts, I
just have moods, thoughts and variations to my main
personality, (which is know to be rather complex at times) and
can be provoked into good states and bad states - accordingly,
as the need arises :) If you want to label that as being
schizophrenic or an integrated personality disorder or any
form of psychosis - then GO FOR IT!
Hey, FWIW, I've had many of my friends and associates in the A2
community say that you, Joe Kohn and several others are nut
cases and mental whacko's - yet I don't base my judgements on
you are anybody else until I meet them in person. Of all those
we've discussed as such - Joe Kohn is the only one I've ever
meet in person, talked with in detail over many, many long
telephone conversations concerning A2 development discussions
and such over the past several years. I could say that Joe
has his high-light and border-line mental moments too, but,
don't we all?
Anybody can present two sides or two personalities when
provoked, good and/or bad, including me, you, Joe Kohn and
anybody else. I can be a real mild-mannered polite cream puff
if I'm treated polite and with mutual respect by others or I
can be a hot-tempered son-of-a-bitch if I'm provoked to act as
such. It all depends on the person, their attitude and the way
they react with me.
And, I also have several physical disabilities also - which
have nothing to do with my efforts in the A2 community. As
long as I'm able to pound on my keyboard, connect to the Net
and see my monitor, I intend to stick with my A2 efforts - and
to provide all the useful, legal and productive things I can
provide.
If you don't like my presents in the A2 community - (and
several don't) then you can all just sit on it and spin.
I can't please everybody and neither can anybody else!
>I can't attend myself this year, due to financial reasons. I
expect my finances to improve in '98 and >will make a strong
effort to attend this year. Readers should attend KFest '97
regardless of the
>>This is a pity Steve, I bought one of your power supplies last
year, and I'd like to meet you again.
**Yes Richard, I too bought one of his power supplies - fine
work too. My serial number is 64. What's yours?
>outcome of the Turley banning. But I urge the planning
committee to reconsider the earlier decision about Dr. Tom.
**Not neccessary! Dr. Tom is not going as a paid attendee to
KansasFest-97. But, like I said before, I might try to just
drop in for a day to have a nice peaceful Q & A session,
debate or whatever - as long as it's civil and peaceful. Maybe
then some of this misinformation and twisted third-hand gossip
about me can be cleared up face-to-face, with many attendees
that seem to have a preformed opinion of Dr. Tom, based on
nothing but what gossip and fantasy stories they have all been
dosed out with over the years - from a few select folks and
notable A2 icons - within the current and past A2 community
have been so gifted with spreading around the world.
I'd love to meet Dr. Tom, so I can let him know exactly what I
think about his fifteen years of lying, thieving and sticking
his fingers up at the very publishers and developers who are
keeping our community alive.
**Likewise Richard -there's a lot of FACTS you need to be
straightened out on concernig me. Here's a couple for starts.
Fifteen years is stretching it just a bit. I only bought my
very first Apple IIc computer in 1986, then the IIgs soon
after. That's only 11 years. And, I (personally) didn't even
have knowledge or access to the Internet until 1994 - so check
your math buddy!
And if you twist, edit or alter any of this long thread and
response - in your Turkey folder, then people will really know
what your actually up to and loss a great deal of respect for
you as a person.
Cheers & G'day - to an Aussie that thinks he knows all about me
but, really knows very little.
Tom
stephen e buggie
Wow, what a controversy! Let me back off to the sidelines!
I started this thread about Tom Turley and KFest '97, but have some
followup comments:
Someone earlier on this thread implied that Dr. Tom set me up to make the
openining comment. HE DID NOT. He did not ask me to write my memo, and
he did not read it or censor it prior to its appearance on the net. He
did relay a message he sent to his circle of correspondents mentioning
that he was made un-welcome to attend K-Fest; my reaction was my own.
A reader wrote that Dr. Tom is mentally disturbed and that I, as a
psychologist, should have noticed this when I met him in person in
November 1996. The only disturbance I noticed was an obsessive/
compulsive devotion to Apple II, an affliction that is widespread among
KFest attenders! ;-)
Someone mentioned ---- what if John Scully showed up at KFest; fine!
Sure, he was the corporate executioner of the A2, but despite that, as a
KFest attender I'd like to meet him! We newcomers want to meet the
celebrities of t he A2 world, whatever their pasts.
In many ways, KFest is like the 2-3 academic meetings I attend each year.
Some of those gatherings of college professors stress harmony and
agreement ---- those sessions are boring. The really interesting academic
conferences are those where rival professors or theorists hotly debate
their ideas.
Sigmund Freud (founder of psychoanalysis) was severely roasted in 1908
when he visited Clark Univ. and presented his controversial ideas on
infant sexuality. Freud was the "Dr. Tom of psychology" at that 1908
meeting. Witnessing a heated debate like Frued's, or Turley's at K-Fest,
would be really memorable.
Let Turley attend! Steve Buggie bug...@unm.edu
: Tom
Adalbert Goertz
re
Someone earlier on this thread implied that Dr. Tom set me up to make the
openining comment. HE DID NOT. He did not ask me to write my memo, and
Adalbert Goertz responds >>>>>>>>>>>>
If you insist that HE DID NOT, most will believe you, but there are
a feew diehards who dont believe what you or Dr.Tom or whoever says what.
--
**************** Adalbert Goertz ****** ph 717-762-7378 ********
rich...@genie.com
"Charles T. 'Dr. Tom' Turley" <ctu...@grin.net> writes:
>to pull on me, if I do go. Should I wear flame-proof clothing and bring
>a fire extinguisher?
...and a copy of Platinum Paint.
--
rich...@genie.com
bug...@auriga.unm.edu (stephen e buggie) writes:
>infant sexuality. Freud was the "Dr. Tom of psychology" at that 1908
>meeting.
ROFLMAO!
--
Nathan Mates
In article <339481...@grin.net>,
Charles T. 'Dr. Tom' Turley <ctu...@grin.net> wrote:
>I can hold up a list of positive contributions to the A2 community
>that will match anything you can list and then some!
Dogbert: "One advantage of being stupid is that you get twice
as many compliments."
Tip: pissing off every developer, pirating software left and right,
and being unwilling to accept that you're at fault and wrong in
pirating, flames, and the like is NOT a positive contribution, no
matter how skitzo you are. (Your medication needs an uppage again)
Nathan Mates
Michael Elliott
Doktor DynaSoar (Dyna...@YGRI.net) writes:
>
> It wouldn't be a great stretch to apply a little clinical sociology to
> this newsgroup. Hysteria and irrational belief systems. A driving need
> to have one target or another, either chosen from outside the group, or
> someone drivien from the group.
>
> A psychotic street gang.
>
Good idea- I have a paper due tommorrow for a sociology class dealing with
deviant sub-cultures- still have no topic- but guess what! :)
Don't worry all- names will be changed to protect the innocent. :)
I wonder- do they offer group discounts on "family" therapy? :)
"Yes, I'd like to make an appointment for 119 crazed newsgroup readers..."
-Michael
TGjenvick
Nathan
>> For those of you outside of the US, this is one of a series of
>> similar laws requiring police to notify the community when a
>> registered sex offender moves in. Named after Megan [forget last name]
>> who was killed by a pedophile living across the street from her, and
>> whose parents were not notified of the fact. Community pressure has
>> done an effective job of keeping such folks away from living near
>> schools, etc.
Megan's law is named after Megan Kanka. The case just went to trial and
the accused was convicted. We (since I am a resident of the town just
north of Hamilton, NJ where the crime was committed) are now awaiting the
sentencing part of the trial.
Tim Gjenvick
Steve White
> Somebody else did it from my old ISP acct. after obtaining the password
> to access my acct. ...
Ergo, you are responsible. Any agreement I've ever seen with an ISP states
that you are responsible for the use of your account. And, of course given
your past history, one could pardon others for thinking that you were up
to your old tricks again.
> ... And, they also did a GREAT job of faking and mailing two emails
> from my old ISP acct, using my name and a very close rendering of my
> writing style.
Your voluminous writing history means that there was no shortage of
samples. Again, one could be pardoned for thinking that the close
rendering of your writing style was actually done by you. That's why it
was close.
> Yes, in my ignorance of allowing somebody (JB) (who never sent me the
> programs in question) to have access to my web site with the password, I
> left myself wide opened for this and must bare the results!
Finally, you are right, you must BEAR responsibility. It is because of
this carelessness (at the very least), combined with your past problems,
that many other reputable people in the A2 community wouldn't want to
associate with you.
Hard to blame them.
The Computer Shopper at one time had in their rules for advertising a line
that applies here: something to the effect that "there are some people who
are destined in life to cause trouble, and we don't want their business."
Appropriate, eh?
steve
pub...@library.ucla.edu
Dyna...@YGRI.net (Doktor DynaSoar) wrote:
>nat...@visi.com (Nathan Mates) sent bitwaves which read:
>}>that will match anything you can list and then some!
>}
>}as many compliments."
>
>
>} Tip: pissing off every developer, pirating software left and right,
>}and being unwilling to accept that you're at fault and wrong in
>}pirating, flames, and the like is NOT a positive contribution, no
>}matter how skitzo you are. (Your medication needs an uppage again)
>
>those FAQs doesn't count for squat. The Apple world would be better off
>without you and the entire pack of rabid would-be assassins that have
>been infesting it. You should give the job to someone else before people
>get the idea that Apple users are people like you.
Tell me about it. What does psychology say about Nate's obsessive
need to be abusive?
Following this newsgroup for the past year, here is what I've
observed. Joe Kohn has a dislike for Dr. Tom because he believes
that he got ripped off by him. I don't blame Kohn at all.
Dr. Tom _has_ been helpful to the Apple II community. Whatever
wrong he did in the past does not erase that. However, if one
believes what is said about him spamming LemminGS to the pirate
sites, then I can understand Joe Kohn and Brutal Deluxe being
upset. I tend to stay out of such a dispute.
However, we don't see Joe Kohn rudely attacking just anyone because
of simple errors in their posts. I'm not talking about Dr. Tom,
which he seems to have a serious grievance with. I'm talking about
the ordinary new user or even people who try to help them.
Somehow, Nate has fixed on me as a target. I'm not claiming that
my posts are 100% free from error, but they are helpful. At the
very least, they provide a list of clickable links to the major
Apple II developers and retailers.
Nate seems to have a need to flame if he thinks his point is not
getting across. He seems to need to dominate conversations. Also,
he tends to need to insult someone in a sizable fraction of his
posts.
For example, "Tim in Town" posted a simple question asking about
whether it was possible to surf the web using a IIgs. He said
that the current computer he uses to do this was a Pentium PC.
Automatically, Nate goes on the attack saying, in short, that
if Tim thought he could view MPEGs and the like on a IIgs, he
was stupid and spamming his _opinion_ (as though it were fact)
that pictures on web pages are stupid in any case. I answered
Tim politely and provided clickable links to developers and
retailers, suggested that the GS was fine for searching for
academic journal articles on the web but that for looking at
pictures a PC or Mac was in order. Guess what? Tim replied by
public post that my answer to him was helpful and polite. He
was gracious enough to thank Nate, but was clearly turned off by
his rudeness.
Let's analyze this for a moment. Tim asks a simple question,
but Nate _automatically_ assumes the _worst_ and thinks that
Tim thinks he can play animations on a GS as fast as on a Pentium.
Nate then acts on his erroneous assumption and _attacts_ that
person based on it. Tim later has to correct Nate by posting
saying that he did _not_ think that. Nate has done this to many
others before.
Another example is when someone posts "I can't seem to find xyz
on ground, can someone point the way?" Nate assumes that the
user is _complaining_ and _chides_ them to bug the sysadmins of
ground. He also tends to post a long manifesto style opinion
that ground is mangled and passes it off as fact. The reality
is that the user is asking a question. He's not complaining,
but rather asking for directions. Also, Nate is projecting
his opinion of ground onto others. It would be like if someone
asked me for street directions and me jumping to the conclusion
that he was complaining about the street layout.
Summary of Nate's typical flame:
Responding to "Can I use abc to do xyz?"
Nate would answer "If you think you can do xyz with abc, you
are boneheaded."
1) False assumptions of other people's motives.
2) Attacking people based on his own false assumptions.
3) Concluding that there is something wrong with other
people and that he is justified in attacking them.
Lastly, Nate tends to believe his own views are more correct
than others, period. For example, because his RamFAST is very
much faster with DMA on than off, he assumes that others must
be the same. He then slams 8MB users because he assumes that
they are in denial, sacrificing significant amounts of drive
speed for what he considers useless memory. However, he
neglects that not all GS computers are configured the same way.
A fast GS with an Apple HS SCSI card, for example, sees little
difference with DMA turned on or off (about 1 sec difference in
boot time). _Without_ considering this possibility, Nate
concludes that the reason 8MB users claim there is no significant
speed penalty for turning DMA off is "sour grapes." He can't
grasp that there are other people for whom DMA off in fact has
little speed penalty and who have legitamate uses for large memory.
For a person that professes to believe solely on facts, Nate
is remarkably sold on his own opinions and assumptions
I know that psychoanalysis is no longer taken seriously by
psychologists, but I wonder what Freud would say about Nate's
behavior? :)
I would like to know your opinion and Dr. Buggie's, but I'll
understand if you decide to keep them to yourselves and avoid
fanning flames.
-Scott G.
Bruce Maples
On 1 Jun 1997 23:50:13 -0400, ge...@seeker.hermesnet.net (Geoff Weiss)
wrote:
>3) I believe for the sanity and safety of all attendees at KansasFest,
> it would be best for the Dr. Tom to not show up. Several people
> have announced that potentially destructive activities would occur
> if Dr. Tom attended. It could have been for that reason why the
> KansasFest committee decided that Dr. Tom would not be welcomed
> (which I believe was the actual phrasing, not this "ban" crud that
> Dr. Tom made Dr. Buggie post).
"Potentially destructive activities"? These are *adults* planning to
attend, correct? And the planners of K-Fest -- these are also adults,
I believe?
Having read almost every post on this newsgroup for two years, I can
certainly understand the statement "Dr. Tom might not be welcome at
this meeting of Apple ][ loyalists." If he were told that, and still
chose to attend, then that would be his choice.
But "destructive activities"? What are you going to destroy -- the
dorm? The cafeteria? Are you really planning on assault and battery?
That's certainly the image Apple ][ users need to share with the
world.
If you've got a legitimate legal beef with Turley, take it to court.
If you think the guy's a jerk, tell him if you feel like it and don't
associate with him. But leave the macho posturing at home.
Bruce
=======================================================
| Remove the @nospam below to e-mail me. |
| bmaples@nospam@consul.com (work) |
| themaples@nospam@worldnet.att.net (home) |
=======================================================
Joe Kohn
pub...@library.ucla.edu wrote:
>Following this newsgroup for the past year, here is what I've
>observed. Joe Kohn has a dislike for Dr. Tom because he believes
>that he got ripped off by him. I don't blame Kohn at all.
There's no need to single me out, as I'm not the only one to be lied to,
harassed and ripped-off. I'm just one of many. Just ask _any_ Apple II
developer, programmer or company owner. They all have a story or three...
One of those stories can be read at:
Charles T. 'Dr. Tom' Turley
pub...@library.ucla.edu wrote:
>Following this newsgroup for the past year, here is what I've
>observed. Joe Kohn has a dislike for Dr. Tom because he believes
>that he got ripped off by him. I don't blame Kohn at all.
ctu...@grin.net responds:
Scott Gamon, Scott G., pub...@library.ucla.edu or whoever you really
are...You do not know the real stories about the long and twisted
relationship between Joe Kohn and myself, from 1986 to date. You simply
do not know any of the real facts about our relationship and our mutual
antics of past. But, eventually you will. I'll be presenting it all at
TurleyFest-97.
IMHO, I blame Kohn very much. I haven't ripped Joe Kohn off for
anything. Bare your books Joe Kohn, show everybody how much money I've
caused you to loose. Itemize it, one, two, three, show us all your
proof, show me and the readers of this newsgroup the list of every
persons name you lost money from as a result of me. If anybody has
ripped anybody off it's Joe Kohn ripping off the Apple II community with
his efforts to make a fast buck under the table - to pay for his next
'Who' concert.
IMHO, He rants to the public on a worldwide scale about loosing tons of
sales and profits and sales and more profits and more sales, whinning
and moaning that I'm persecuting his every effort with my acts of piracy
- on old software that nobody wants to buy anyway - then blaming me when
he can't sell it. The man is sicker in the head than you could possibly
imagine. He's consumed with hate and false pride. He's a hipacrite, a
two faced con-artist that hypes people into following and praising his
every thought word and deed - as being beneficial and rightous to the
needs and over all useful values of the Apple II community.
IMHO, Joe Kohn is nothing more than a two-bit crooked, bungeling
west-coast-promoman, that's now caught in his own droppings and doesn't
like the smell he's generated.
If you think I'm being driven on with some form of vindictive drive,
your DEAD wrong. I simply want to show the public what Joe Kohn really
is all about. He's posted to Genie and this newsgroup that his
Shareware Solutions II worldwide subscriptions have reached over 1000.
Some people say he even claims up to 10,000 circulation of SSII. When
in fact, I know from Joe Kohn telling me personally over a telephone
conversation - last year, that he THEN had less than 250 worldwide payed
subscriptions and the 1000 number was simply business hype to get more
people to subscribe to SSII.
That's the oldest business trick in the book. But, AGAIN (IMHO) - his
doing this simply causes him to have more cancelations, non-renewals,
etc. of SSII, less software sales with what he has to offer and it will
eventually destroy the motivations of others like; TAB, Juiced GS, AW
Gazette, etc. to continue their efforts, fearing falsely that SSII
simply has the entire newsletter market covered.
SSII, is passed on to me with every issue released (in their original
form also). I've watched it degrade in quality and content over the past
years now - to the point that it has very little in creative value to
offer me, with anything new or interesting - that I haven't already know
of for ages anyway. This is only my personal opinion - mind you, others
seem to find value in the content and merit of composition. To each his
own. If I had to pick one or two to subscribe to myself; TAB and Juiced
GS are my picks.
Again (IMHO) concerning Joe Kohn, he's a paranoid, deceitful, liar,
scheming, software - shister that has made it his life-long ambition to
spread as much vindictive gossip, to as many people that he can, who
will listen to him, when it fits his own self-centered needs.
IMHO, He claims to have a love and a passion for the Apple II computer
and its users, when in fact he has one interest and one interest only -
HOW MANY pennies he can shove in his pants before they fall off. How
much milk he can get from the tit of the Apple II community, without
returning anything to compensate for his nursing efforts. Not even
genuine acts of love are given back. If you don't pay you don't get -
that's the way Joe Kohn thinks, works and acts - with respect to
everything he does.
FACT: He told me all his efforts are pure business and nothing else. He
works 9 to 5 and after that, he doesn't want to be bothered by me or
anybody else. He also told me there was no love or magic or passion left
with anything he did for the Apple II computer users. He said he was
very sorry that he didn't take the offer to go with the new directions
of the publication A+ Insider, and start over on the Mac platform to
support it, write for it and continue with the publication efforts -
when it was offered to him. He said that he was stupid to have stayed
with the Apple II efforts, that he had nothing to show for his years of
efforts and was going broke if he didn't find some other form of income
to generate a lively hood from. Hey, I feel sorry for him! But, I also
laugh at his many public and private efforts to destroy me and my Apple
II efforts, because he hasn't been as successful now as he was in the
past.
Joko defensively goes on with this little diddee:
"There's no need to single me out, as I'm not the only one to be lied
to, harassed and ripped-off. I'm just one of many. Just ask _any_ Apple
II developer, programmer or company owner. They all have a story or
three...
One of those stories can be read at:
http://www.cyberstation.fr/~zardini
ctu...@grin.net responds to this: Look carefully at the above
comments...from joko. Never does he relate any of it to me (Charles T.
'Dr. Tom' Turley) - Yet, he's implying it towards a relationship between
me and them....using - only a generality that Apple II developers,
programmers And company owners are lied to harrassed and ripped-off.
I'm sure they are...BUT, NOT BY ME! Unfortunately, (REALITY CHECK)
that's the way things work in the commercial and business world of
software on any platform - these days. It's dog-eat-dog and may the best
promotional effort win, (not even may the best program win) - type of
world out there. Sad but, true!
Joe Kohn wants to single me out and point the finger at me, playing his
charmed little golden flute as the sheep dance and baagh behind him. He
wants to convience every human being in the A2 community that I'm only
out to destroy it.
IMHO, Joe Kohn is a vindictive little street thug - using his native
Bronx style of gang-land street tricks and minipulation over the arms
offered from the Internet - to try and fool the masses into accepting
his word as the undisputed truth - with everything he related to anybody
about anything. Well, think about this for a while Joe Kohn. Most of
the people that get your email - warning them not to associate with
Charles Turley, or they will loose all support and respect from the
entire A2 community, have simply taken to laughing over that email from
you now and wondering what in the world makes you do such crap.
FACT: I've never tried to make one penny of profit from the Apple II
community from the end of 1992 to date for myself. I'm not in it for
profit of any form. I'm in it for the freedom and enjoyment of giving,
helping and sharing. I do support all commercial efforts for the Apple
II community. A half-dozen or so clever set-ups to discredit my real
motivations just have not worked; not with the OmniPaint or Spectrum
beta uploaded to the Net by somebody (Ian Schmidt??? or the multiple
personages of Stroker Ace) (back in 1993, when I didn't even know what
the Internet was or how to access it myself) and then blaming it on me,
not with the 3200 Convert (extra period) incident, not with the 3200
src. code - LemminGS uploads by others from my old wco.com account, not
with the fake emails sent to others from myu old wco.com acct. not with
the fake sick and vulgar CSA2 usenet posts sent from my old wco.com
acct., not with silly (and fairly cute) Turleynator perl script, not
with the rants, twisted misinformation and lies collective in the Turkey
pages and folder, not with the Zardini page of dribble and warped
gossip.
Can't you folks get it???? That stuff doesn't harm me, it harms you.
I find it pitiful and amusing in its own sic little way. It all kind of
reminds me of a really dumb, sick and twisted version of some late night
talk show, riddled with lies, misinformation and deceptions to get high
ratings for the network.
IMHO, well, it just will not work Joe Kohn. Oh, maybe a few dozen
gulible people will listen to you, believe you and follow you along,
till the bitter end. But, if you continue as you have been with all
these mass minipulative tricks and twisted antics ans such, like you
have been now for the past several years, you are only hurting you and
the general Apple II community with your fanatical gossip, political
ploy and schemes against my continued presents and sincere, useful
efforts in the Apple II community and for the future needs of the Apple
II community. I'm not about to give up and crawl away in shame, because
of you, what you project, say, etc. If you are really serious about it
all then we can learn to exist together within the Apple II community
and be productive and helpful in our own manner and style.
The Zardini web page about me is just a pile of pitiful fanatical rants
and misingformation, based on nothing factual,a collective of poor
phychoanalysis efforts about me, my style with everything and so on and
such, simply a silly misguided collective of sick humor, ignorant rants
and rancid misunderstandings, with flames of hate - fanned and feed by
Joe Kohn and his faithful flock of followers.
IMHO, Joe Kohn - you're such a master of twisting the story to fit your
own needs and desires - just like; Nathan Mates, Ian Schmidt, Stroker
Ace and the other some odd dozen ranters, would-be Apple II fanatical
mini-politicians, egoheads, hypercritical-perfectionist 'Turley-haters'
and the like, I really thing you should all use your collective talents
and join together - form a production company or some creative venture
to write scripts and screen plays for the BIG CHEESES in Hollywood and
New York. You'd all get RICH REAL FAST.
I wish EVERYBODY well - may we all live long and prosper with all our
efforts for the good of the Apple II community and its needs. Perhaps
some day we can actually learn to care for each other - with some real
sincerity, learn to understand others that have the need to be accepted
and be a part of something, rather than protraying them to the public as
the black sheep of the flock, laughed at, humiliated in public and
gossiped about in both private and public - until those that hear it all
actually start to believe it as the gospel truth - without question or
doubt, learning to HATE people for no reason other than what somebody
else said about them - without any facts or first-handed experience to
justify such hate towards a person. Hate is an evil quality and seems
to simply generate more hate as it continues to circulate. Hate is
something I really don't want to be involved with, in any respect.
I have absolutely no intention now - of attending or visiting the hate
filled event know as KansasFest-97, in any manner what-so-ever. Not
because I'm banned or not welcomed or scared of the violence I might
encounter or whatever you want to call it??? But, because I have other
more enjoyable events to attend on the same dates. I love GOOD music and
GOOD people that like to share the experience of togetherness, mutual
respect and enjoyment with each other and for each other. Raggae on the
River-97, being held on Aug. 1 thru 3, 1997, is where I'll be enjoying
myself.
Then on to 'TurleyFest-97', Aug, 8, thru 10, 1997 - a free gathering of
Apple II ONLY, users, developers, hardware and software guru's, living
legends, fanatics and devotees - presenting lively humor and good times
with Q & A sessions, debates, presentations, in a friendly atmosphere,
non-hyped and happy non-commercial environment, for three days; Friday,
Saturday and Sunday. Everybody is welcome to attend. Nobody will be
banned and all are welcome. Here's you chance to meet and mingle with
them all, including Dr. Tom in person, face-to-face.
I'm completely serious about this! More on all this and that later....
look for details of this astounding Apple II gathering and historical
event, with information, location, host, maps, list of events - list of
confirmed attendees with its own web page listing location,
accomidations and all else related to the 'TurleyFest-97' three day
Apple II meeting and events.
Information released as fast as it becomes available and confirmed.
All those interested in attending TurleyFest-97, send your email NOW!!!
Mailto: ctu...@grin.net
I look forward to any email reply from everybody that really has a
serious interest in this or is considering attending TurleyFest-97.
Cheers,
Tom
Charles T. 'Dr. Tom' Turley
pub...@library.ucla.edu wrote:
>Following this newsgroup for the past year, here is what I've
>observed. Joe Kohn has a dislike for Dr. Tom because he believes
>that he got ripped off by him. I don't blame Kohn at all.
ctu...@grin.net responds:
Joe Kohn
From the American Heritage Dictionary:
Libel: a. Any written, printed or pictorial statement that damages a person
by defaming his character or exposing him to ridicule. b. The act of
presenting such a statement to the public.
Joe Kohn
Marvin <gue...@student.uni-kl.de> wrote:
: Oh no! Not another of these Charles Turley/Joe Kohn mud-wrestling
: shows! :)
I'm really sorry to disappoint you, Marvin, but mud-wrestling takes two
participants and I'm currently too incapacitated by laughter to take
part. Plus, I wouldn't want to ruin my "Apple II Forever" t-shirt by
getting it all muddy.
So, if it's exciting flame fest fun you seek, you'll just have to visit
comp.sys.apple2.flamefest, or fire up FlameStation XL.
stephen e buggie
I agree that a person must be responsible for his e-mail account, even if
someone else gets access to it.
If you allow Tim McVie to find the key to your fuel oil and fertilizer
shed, then you have to share responsibility for what he does with it...
;-}
Steve B
Steve Mentzer
In article <5nkpba$k...@crl7.crl.com>, jo...@crl7.crl.com says...
Joe,
Was that a threat? Just like the ones you made to me regarding the (in)famous
FTP site episode?
Turley, ignore this man. He is full of hot air. He hasn't done a damn thing
for the apple II community, except make a quick buck. Everybody knows it.
Nathan Mates
In article <339D92...@grin.net>,[snippage accusing Joe Kohn of making an $]
>If anybody has ripped anybody off it's Joe Kohn ripping off the
>Apple II community with his efforts to make a fast buck under the
>table - to pay for his next 'Who' concert.
Even though you're a drugged out hippie from one of the most
left-wing areas of the West Coast, there is NOTHING wrong with making
a legal buck in the US. [Yes, you do live in the state of California,
USA, though your mind appears to be in the state of denial]
Profit has driven the Apple II since the beginning. Would Apple
have succeded and prospered had the owners been losing right from the
start? Would Apple have continued to see the Apple II if they didn't
make a killing selling overpriced boxes? Would many thousands of
software developers have embarked on huge project if there wasn't the
hope of $ at the end? Would the software developers have stuck with
the Apple II even though piracy and a declining market made it not
worth their while?
$ is what drives this world, like it or not. And you're the one
who's made ILLEGAL money off the Apple II, starting from the times
you've admitted to selling pirated Appleworks for your crack
habit. You're the slime ripping off real developers and the public,
and now you have the idiocy to claim that making money is
wrong. You're just jealous that Joe Kohn *CAN* make money, have
friends, and popularity by providing quality goods, services and
information, while your efforts land you a whack with the clue-by-four
trying to knock some sense into a vapid and pitiful existence.
So you compensate for your jealousy of the upright, honest and
successful by trying to pirate, reducing everything to the highest
price you could afford: zero. Along with idiots like Steve Mentos(tm),
your hatred of those able to make a living bubbles over into your
total disregard for copyrights, thinking that "help" is to backstab
honest developers by giving away the software they have said is
commercial.
Find another damp rock to slither under and go away for good, as
you've promised to do. Do that before the bile you're building up
against the real developers overflows again and you pirate more stuff
or do something else stupid.
Kansasfest is full of real developers doing real work, like
planning the next killer app-- Spectrum Internet Suite was born there
last year. Turkeyfest will be a lot of pirating, whining, and
complaining, without enough of a collective clue among all the
participants to stop drooling from both sides of your mouths when your
heads are level. It's clear where the *REAL* work and Apple II
enthusiasm and community is, and where those in the gutter fighting
over the table scraps are.
Henrik 'Ratte' Gudat
I've just read Turley's pamphlet about what a bad boy Joe Kohn is, and I really
believe enough is enough.
Charles, there's a point in time when you have take responsibility for whatever
you have done in the past. if it was good thing, you can lean back and enjoy.
If it was bad, you'll get the bill. The latter one is just what's happening to
you right now. And yet you do not realize that throwing even more lies in
public makes your situation worse. I'm not talking about your postings being
worth a lawsuit and such, but any reasonable human being should have enough
respect to stick with the facts or justify his/her actions with whatever he/she
is believing in.
I'm really shocked to see such a complete lack of attitude.
Instead of elaborating, please allow me to end my message with a song from
Sophie B. Hawkins. Time for something completely different. I don't think
falsifying each line in your posting would server anyone.
I lied
I lied in the name of fear
I don't want to run
I don't want to hide
Lord I want my dignity again
I won't flinch
And I won't turn away
- henrik
rich...@genie.com
"Charles T. 'Dr. Tom' Turley" <ctu...@grin.net> writes:
>anything. Bare your books Joe Kohn, show everybody how much money I've
>caused you to loose. Itemize it, one, two, three, show us all your
..then writes many paragraphs about how he thinks SSII is shit. This is not
causing him to lose money?
>FACT: He told me all his efforts are pure business and nothing else. He
>works 9 to 5 and after that, he doesn't want to be bothered by me or
Strange, I usually chat with him outside of those hours, about the Apple II.
He often attends Genie and Delphi RTCs outside those hours too, where
there are many attendees.
...then writes and writes and writes and writes...
>because I'm banned or not welcomed or scared of the violence I might
>encounter or whatever you want to call it??? But, because I have other
>more enjoyable events to attend on the same dates. I love GOOD music and
Then why did you apply then?
>Then on to 'TurleyFest-97', Aug, 8, thru 10, 1997 - a free gathering of
>Apple II ONLY, users, developers, hardware and software guru's, living
>legends, fanatics and devotees - presenting lively humor and good times
>with Q & A sessions, debates, presentations, in a friendly atmosphere,
>non-hyped and happy non-commercial environment, for three days; Friday,
>Saturday and Sunday. Everybody is welcome to attend. Nobody will be
>banned and all are welcome. Here's you chance to meet and mingle with
>them all, including Dr. Tom in person, face-to-face.
ROTFLMAO!
>look for details of this astounding Apple II gathering and historical
>event, with information, location, host, maps, list of events - list of
>confirmed attendees with its own web page listing location,
>accomidations and all else related to the 'TurleyFest-97' three day
>Apple II meeting and events.
...and then name it after yourself. QED for all the doubters.
--
Joe Kohn
So, some newcomers to comp.sys.apple2 might be wondering, "who is Joe Kohn
and why is he the object of csa2's latest flame fest?" Here's why....
SHAREWARE SOLUTIONS II
AN EXCITING APPLE II JOURNEY INTO THE FUTURE
_________________________________________________________________
Shareware Solutions II is the highly acclaimed bi-monthly newsletter
that focuses on the magic that is the Apple II computer. Written,
edited and published by Joe Kohn and Dr. Cynthia Field, former
Contributing Editors to inCider/A+ Magazine, and by Steve Disbrow,
former Publisher of GS+ Magazine, Shareware Solutions II has received
rave reviews and strong endorsements from II Alive, The AppleWorks
Forum, GS+, Resource-Central-on-Disk, and by numerous Apple II User
Group newsletters from around the world.
Since its debut in July, 1993, Shareware Solutions II has been read
and well received by Apple II users in all 50 states and in more than
20 foreign countries. Each 20 page issue is filled with a valuable mix
of information and news of the Apple II world, along with hints and
tips, how-to articles, reviews of freeware and shareware, and
exclusive money saving deals that are available, only to newsletter
subscribers, on hardware and commercial software. Additionally, all
freeware and shareware reviewed is available to subscribers at low
cost through the mail.
Each issue of Shareware Solutions II contains information about the
Apple II in an easy to understand format that has been praised by
Apple II novices and "power users" galore. According to a review in
the March, 1994 newsletter of the Denver Apple Pi, "I have found his
first 4 issues to be very informative and written in an understandable
format. I'm almost into overload with the information he offers. I
encourage any of you to give Shareware Solutions II a try, as it is
really encouraging to see our favorite computer supported by a
knowledgeable person with good information and programs."
Written, printed and published entirely on Apple II computers,
Shareware Solutions II even comes with a money back guarantee; cancel
at any time, and get a refund for any unmailed issues.
Shareware Solutions II has several different subscription options
available:
1. A One Year, 6 Issue Subscription: This subscription starts with
the current issue of Shareware Solutions II. The cost is $25 for
US or Canadian delivery; $40 for delivery anywhere else in the
world. Please note that all issues are mailed by First Class Air
Mail.
2. The First 24 Issues: This subscription includes the first 24
issues of Shareware Solutions II. It includes all the back issues
published to date (16 issues have been published as of April,
1997), and will run through Volume 4, Issue 6 (due to appear in
late-1998 or early-1999). This 24 issue subscription is available
at the rate of $75 to subscribers in the US or Canada, and $100
for International subscribers. Please note that all issues are
mailed by First Class Air Mail.
Make all checks or money orders out to Joe Kohn. US Funds Only. Sorry,
but no charge cards, purchase orders or COD orders will be accepted.
Send your subscription to:
Joe Kohn
Shareware Solutions II
166 Alpine Street
San Rafael, CA 94901-1008
USA
For more information about Shareware Solutions II,
visit http://www.crl.com/~joko
Joe Kohn
Henrik 'Ratte' Gudat <GUD...@EZINFO.VMSMAIL.ETHZ.CH> wrote:
>but any reasonable human being should have enough respect to stick
>with the facts or justify his/her actions with whatever he/she is
>believing in.
The only "fact" presented in that diatribe was that my name was spelled
correctly.
In any case, actions speak much louder than words.
I'm not going to waste my precious time refuting the ravings of a
delusional individual who admits that he collects a government check for a
psychiatric disability.
So, Henrik, I suggest you get back to work on Bernie ][ The Rescue, and
quit wasting your time dealing with the ravings of a madman.
Joe
Tom Zuchowski
Heck, if Mr. Turley went to Kfest, I think I'd have to re-arrange my
schedule and go myself, just to be on hand for your face-to-face meeting
with him.
I would not think that Mr. Turley would want to go to Kfest in any event,
given that he would finally meet face to face with a LOT of people who mean
him ill will for a variety of reasons. I know that I wouldn't go there for
a million dollars if I were in his shoes.
It has been amusing to read the posts on Genie and Delphi among the Kfest
people on this subject. Nobody can quite seem to figure out who sent this
rejection letter or why they would do so. <g>
TomZ
Marvin
Nathan Mates (nat...@visi.com) wrote:
[blasted Dr. Tom into oblivion]
It's nothing to be ashamed of, if you try to make money with your
creative work, if the competition is fair. We have all at least one
mouth to feed, right?
But there should be more than only that: encouragements, respect,
love, congratulations and last but not least happiness.
As we say in Germany, "Money does not make happy, it
merely soothes much!" :)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"This planet had a problem, which was this: __
most of the people on it were unhappy |\/| /\ |__|| | | |\ |
for pretty much of the time. Many solutions | ||__||\ | | | | \ |
were suggested for this problem, but most of | || || \ \/ | | \|
these were largely concerned with the movements
of small green pieces of paper, which is odd
because on the whole it wasn't the small
green pieces of paper that were unhappy."
Need Apple II gs software? Visit ftp.uni-kl.de...
Visit the Vogon hold at http://www.student.uni-kl.de/~guenter/vogon.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Law
Joe Kohn (jo...@crl7.crl.com) wrote:
: From the American Heritage Dictionary:
: Libel: a. Any written, printed or pictorial statement that damages a person
: by defaming his character or exposing him to ridicule. b. The act of
: presenting such a statement to the public.
don't forget that the truth is an absolute defense in a libel suit! If
it's true; it's not libel.
Charles T. 'Dr. Tom' Turley
Subject: Apple IIs and Legal profit (Turley vs Reality again)
From: nat...@visi.com (Nathan Mates)
Date: 1997/06/12
Message-Id: <5no082$mgv$1...@darla.visi.com>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
nat...@visi.com (Nathan Mates) <Nathan '<BLAH> <BLAH> <BLAH> <BLAH> <BLAH>' Mates
spiddled about in ignorance with the following - 'watch me burn Dr. Tom'
rants of wisdom - NOT - noted with a <BLAH> before each of his ignorant rant lines:
<BLAH> Even though you're a drugged out hippie from one of the most
<BLAH> left-wing areas of the West Coast, there is NOTHING wrong with making
<BLAH> a legal buck in the US. [Yes, you do live in the state of California,
<BLAH> USA, though your mind appears to be in the state of denial]
ctu...@grin.net responds:
I AM NOT a drugged out hippie from one of the most left-wing areas of the West
Coast - (I'm not on West Coast Online any more). I live in Brisbane, CA. a very,
very small and very conservative right-wing community of 3003 nice people. I'm
well know and well respected in the city of Brisbane, CA. I'm well aware of what
state and country I live in. And, it's not the state of denial - as in LALAland,
(or Southern California) - home of the most esteemed right-winged Satan Mates,
'Lord of All Flames'. (And, yes, to me you do sound exactly like I'd expect
Satan to sound - if I ever meet him face-to-face.) BTW, yes, I am left-winged
in certain areas of thought and right-winged in others. So don't label somebody
you don't even know personally! Oh, and I'm left-handed and have a functional IQ
of 168, I'm not perfect, never will be but, I'm not Dr. Wroung either butthead!
FWIW, put that in your next A2 FAQ update - Nathan.
<BLAH> Profit has driven the Apple II since the beginning. Would Apple
<BLAH> have succeded and prospered had the owners been losing right from the
<BLAH> start? Would Apple have continued to see the Apple II if they didn't
<BLAH> make a killing selling overpriced boxes? Would many thousands of
<BLAH> software developers have embarked on huge project if there wasn't the
<BLAH> hope of $ at the end? Would the software developers have stuck with
<BLAH> the Apple II even though piracy and a declining market made it not
<BLAH> worth their while?
ctu...@grin.net responds:
To IMHO reply to the above; no, no, no, no, and yes they did, they have and
they still do.
<BLAH> $ is what drives this world, like it or not. And you're the one
<BLAH> who's made ILLEGAL money off the Apple II, starting from the times
<BLAH> you've admitted to selling pirated Appleworks for your crack
<BLAH> habit. You're the slime ripping off real developers and the public,
<BLAH> and now you have the idiocy to claim that making money is
<BLAH> wrong. You're just jealous that Joe Kohn *CAN* make money, have
<BLAH> friends, and popularity by providing quality goods, services and
<BLAH> information, while your efforts land you a whack with the clue-by-four
<BLAH> trying to knock some sense into a vapid and pitiful existence.
ctu...@grin.net responds:
IMHO love drives the world not $ (at least the Apple II world that is) I don't
know what world you are in Nathan, but it's not the world of REALITY. You keep
dwelling on something done in extreme ignorance, shame and error by me way back in
1989-92. I've made it very clear on this newsgroup and to you in telcons that I
DO NOT DO DRUGS ANY LONGER - PERIOD. Yet you keep bring up old historical dirt
just for your own pathetic thrill in attempts to humiliate me in public. I DO
NOT PIRATE SOFTWARE ANY MORE EITHER! So, both of your <BLAH> <BLAH> rants are
rather stupid with their inclusions and DO NOT EVEN RELATE to the current time.
No I'm not at all jealous of Joe Kohn, you or anybody else in the Apple II
community - Nathan. If anybody IS JEALOUS of anybody - I'd say it's you, Joe and
a dozen others who don't know REAL REALITY about me - from some ride at
Disneyworld. My existence is far from being any where near to 'vapid and
pitiful'. Again you don't know JACK about me Nathan - so why try to trick the
public into thinking that you do? Your statements simply make you look extreme
and ignorant in all respects concerning me.
<BLAH> So you compensate for your jealousy of the upright, honest and
<BLAH> successful by trying to pirate, reducing everything to the highest
<BLAH> price you could afford: zero. Along with idiots like Steve Mentos(tm),
<BLAH> your hatred of those able to make a living bubbles over into your
<BLAH> total disregard for copyrights, thinking that "help" is to backstab
<BLAH> honest developers by giving away the software they have said is
<BLAH> commercial.
ctu...@grin.net responds: First - who is Steve Mentos(tm) and what relation does
he have to me? I don't try to pirate - I DO NOT PIRATE - therefore how could I
try? I can afford what I want and need - I was able to afford to stick a $10 bill
in your hand (face-to-face) for your shareware fee of the GameHacker disk you
were selling at the last Apple Expo - in San Francisco, Brooks Hall. And, you did
thank me for it - stating I was the very first shareware payment for it you'd
received at the last Apple Expo. I have complete regard for copyrights, old and
new. If I didn't then I'd simple get another acct. and spend all my time
uploading all of my Apple II software to Asimov ftp site. However, I DON'T. I
have no hatred towards anybody - least of all towards any Apple II developers,
users, programmers or publishers. You mistake my feelings of agrivation, pity
and dislike for HATE. They are not the same. I don't hate you, Joe Kohn, Bozo,
Richard Bennett and the others that listen to your rants about me and believe
them - I simply have feelings of agrivation, pity and dislike for the ignorance
and childish nature they so often present - concerning me.
<BLAH> Find another damp rock to slither under and go away for good, as
<BLAH> you've promised to do. Do that before the bile you're building up
<BLAH> against the real developers overflows again and you pirate more stuff
<BLAH> or do something else stupid.
ctu...@grin.net responds: Who died and made you 'King of the Apple II world -
Nathan? Your comments show just how little Christian nature you really possess,
how much hate, ignorance, lack of understanding and more ignorance you fester in
everything related to me. Don't ever tell me to do anything little boy. Grow up
and get a real life with real people in a real world. Stop hiding behind your
pure and mighty wanna-be elite ego. It sickens virtually everybody that has to
waste their time reads your rants and flames like you stated above. I'm not going
anywhere but IN YOUR FACE butthead! And, your THREATS of the BILE BUILDING CRUD
(yes, I said it; CRUD, CRUD, CRUD - you're packed with CRUD Nathan. CRUD AND HATE
are the drugs you're addicted to. The only thing STUPID being done is you and
your little elite power circles trying to play Apple II patty-cake and pretend I
don't exist on the Net. Well, I do, I will continue to and you can't do anything
about it - nor can they....so, na-na-na-na-na and la-tee-da. I REMAIN, like it
or not Nathan! I'll be here long after you give it up, abandon the A2 community
and hop on the $$$$$ville band-wagon with Bill Gates and Company. You can put your
can of DRANO away kid - it don't work on me!
<BLAH> Kansasfest is full of real developers doing real work, like
<BLAH> planning the next killer app-- Spectrum Internet Suite was born there
<BLAH> last year. Turkeyfest will be a lot of pirating, whining, and
<BLAH> complaining, without enough of a collective clue among all the
<BLAH> participants to stop drooling from both sides of your mouths when your
<BLAH> heads are level. It's clear where the *REAL* work and Apple II
<BLAH> enthusiasm and community is, and where those in the gutter fighting
<BLAH> over the table scraps are.
ctu...@grin.net responds: I know exactly what KFest-97 is full of :) Actually
your personal rants and opinions of the FANTASY TURKEYFEST seem to relate with
more reality to KFest-97 than to any Turkeyfest???? And just where did you get
that from anyway - SATAN? So Nathan, are you going to either event? - let me
guess your answer to that one! "Nope gotta code for some other platform to pay my
rent - got no time to do anything for the Apple II folks now...maybe later, maybe
when it's ready! Hahahehehe - YEAH RIGHT - WHATEVER!!!' Final comments on it all,
if somebody wants to try to make money - then more power to them and I hope they do.
Me, I'm not into making money. I enjoy doing things for peoples needs freely,
without the expectation of any financial reward for doing it. And, EVERYTHING I
ever do will be 100% free and 100% legal. I dare you to prove otherwise. You can't!
Cheers & In Christ,
Tom
Antoine Vignau
Charles T. 'Dr. Tom' Turley wrote:
>
> And, EVERYTHING I ever do will be 100% free and 100% legal. I dare you to prove otherwise. You can't!
>
> Cheers & In Christ,
> Tom
Hello,
If I were you I would have written such a thing.
I am a praticant catholic and I really do not know in which way Christ
is involded !
Please tell me,
Antoine Vignau
Brutal Deluxe Software