Google Groups dropping Usenet support

[fadden]

"Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to view and search for historical Usenet content posted before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."

That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.

[TRS-90]

> That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.

That's a polite way of putting it.

I think this could kill the csa2 groups. This sucks. For me at least, Google Groups was how I found CSA2 in the first place, and I imagine that is the same for many. So now new-commers won't even be able to find it?

[I am Rob]

> "Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to view and search for historical Usenet content posted before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
>
> That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.

Then I would like to invite everyone to meet me over on Atariage. It is a way better forum anyways that allows one to post files, pictures and videos.
And a way better editor for entering posts. No checking off that you are not a bot. And the best of all, NO SPAM.

https://forums.atariage.com/forum/158-apple-ii-computers

[Your Name]

Google Groups has always been an extremely crap way to read Usenet, as
well as a source of tons of tolling morons. Anyone with sense gets a
Usenet provider service (there are free ones) and a proper newsreader
app.

[fadden]

On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 7:10:32 PM UTC-8, Your Name wrote:
> Google Groups has always been an extremely crap way to read Usenet, as
> well as a source of tons of tolling morons. Anyone with sense gets a
> Usenet provider service (there are free ones) and a proper newsreader
> app.

The problem isn't that people who want to read comp.sys.apple2 won't be able to. The problem is that people who have no idea what comp.sys.apple2 is will no longer have a zero-barrier way to access it. They need to find an app and a feed provider, which creates a barrier to access that many people won't cross simply because it's inconvenient.

Google Groups made it possible to post a simple URL and say, "comp.sys.apple2 is here, you can read and post easily". I agree that it's not a great way to access Usenet, but it's really convenient.

[Sebastian P.]

In article <b5b17e7c-d7e0-42a7...@googlegroups.com>,

That's so typical Google - killing services at a whim.

Maybe it's a chance. Let the (nerdy) world know that csa2 exists and how
to connect to it. (from either old or new devices)

[mmphosis]

I will continue to post on USENET.

https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=302149

and elsewhere ...

Forums
https://forums.atariage.com/forum/158-apple-ii-computers/ * thanks to "I am
Rob"
https://www.applefritter.com/forum/84
https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?forums/apple-i-lisa.27/
https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?forums/early-apple-i-etc.32/
https://old.reddit.com/r/apple2/

In Print!
https://juiced.gs/

Podcasts
https://rcrpodcast.com/
https://www.open-apple.net/
https://monsterfeet.com/1mhz/

Community
https://joinmastodon.org/servers * for example:
https://techtoots.com/tags/appleii
https://apple2.gs/communities.php
https://a2central.com/resources/community/

Other
https://www.kansasfest.org/
http://www.textfiles.com/apple/
http://www.textfiles.com/apple/THELAMP/
https://www.apl2bits.net/
https://apple2online.com/
http://www.woz.org/

Any others?

[I am Rob]

Facebook "Apple II enthusiasts" and "Apple IIGS enthusiasts" both have a pretty big following.
6502.org isn't bad either. But it doesn't have an Apple II specific forum, just a few 6502 related discussion groups.

[Your Name]

Convenient to access, but disgustingly bad to actually use, which puts
sane people off.

For those who want web brwoser based Usent, there are other ways.
Easynews being one, although it is not free (there is a free trial and
you can get 80% off the price via NewsgroupReviews.com,
<https://www.newsgroupreviews.com/easynews-review.html>

[Your Name]

On 2023-12-15 17:02:32 +0000, Sebastian P. said:
> In article <b5b17e7c-d7e0-42a7...@googlegroups.com>,
> fadden <thef...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups (at
>> groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe to Usenet
>> groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to view and search for
>> historical Usenet content posted before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
>>
>> That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.
>
> That's so typical Google - killing services at a whim.

Most Internet Service Providers killed off their free Usenet access
years ago on a whim (as well as free email and website space), and yet
continue to charge more and more money for less and less services. :-(

[TRS-90]

> That's so typical Google - killing services at a whim.

I read Google's statement on why, and I do understand. Usenet is absolutely full of spam, and the binaries are all basically illegal copies of content. Legitimate content certainly does struggle against the tidal waves of garbage.

> Maybe it's a chance. Let the (nerdy) world know that csa2 exists and how
> to connect to it. (from either old or new devices)

I was thinking that too. Has anyone who uses the other online Apple II sites ever written about "Check out csa2 on Usenet"? I don't believe I've ever seen such a mention. It could be mentioned that EternalSeptember is free, and there are some free clients out there. On my Windows machine I have GrabIt, which is free and works pretty good. Maybe an artice on some popular forum "All About comp.sys.apple2 and How to Participate for Free"

[fadden]

On 12/15/2023 3:31 PM, TRS-90 wrote:
> Maybe an artice on some popular forum "All About comp.sys.apple2 and How to Participate for Free"

Well, let's see if this works.

I signed up for a free account at Eternal September
(https://www.eternal-september.org/), downloaded the free Mozilla
Thunderbird (https://www.thunderbird.net/), and configured it to talk to
ES. It took a bit of poking around to get Thunderbird to ask for a
login and password, but I got there.

(Hit "alt" to make the menu bar visible, then Tools -> Account Settings
-> Server Settings and check "Always request authentication when
connecting to this server". Then restart the app and hit "refresh" in
the newsgroup subscription window, which you get to by right-clicking on
the server entry and selecting "Subscribe...".)

If all goes well, this message will be posted on comp.sys.apple2.

[I am Rob]

> Well, let's see if this works.
>
> I signed up for a free account at Eternal September
> (https://www.eternal-september.org/), downloaded the free Mozilla
> Thunderbird (https://www.thunderbird.net/), and configured it to talk to
> ES. It took a bit of poking around to get Thunderbird to ask for a
> login and password, but I got there.
>
> (Hit "alt" to make the menu bar visible, then Tools -> Account Settings
> -> Server Settings and check "Always request authentication when
> connecting to this server". Then restart the app and hit "refresh" in
> the newsgroup subscription window, which you get to by right-clicking on
> the server entry and selecting "Subscribe...".)
>
> If all goes well, this message will be posted on comp.sys.apple2.

It is still viewable on Google. :O). They haven't shut the doors yet.

I kind of like FireFox. Any negative attributes about FireFox?

[Kent Dickey]

In article <mmphosis-...@macgui.com>,

mmphosis <mmph...@macgui.com> wrote:
>I will continue to post on USENET.
>
>https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=302149
>
>and elsewhere ...

I'm just pointing out clearly that macgui.com lets anyone read
comp.sys.apple2 (and some other groups) using a web-browser at:
https://macgui.com/usenet/ and it says by creating an account
there, you can post as well (I've not done this though). This might
be a reasonable fit for apple 2 folks using google groups.

Kent

[D Finnigan]

It’s how I read and post to Usenet. :-)
The system works well enough for me, but if others use it and see
opportunities for improvement, my ears are open.



--
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

[TRS-90]

> I'm just pointing out clearly that macgui.com lets anyone read
> comp.sys.apple2 (and some other groups) using a web-browser at:
> https://macgui.com/usenet/ and it says by creating an account
> there, you can post as well (I've not done this though). This might
> be a reasonable fit for apple 2 folks using google groups.

Yes, could be. I'm just wondering if the people of CSA2 care enough about preserving and continuing the very good place that it is... Honestly, I think it might be one of the last places on Usenet still viable. I know the C64 pages are all spam. I would be willing to spend the time to learn and write about how to make CSA2 accessible to the newly interested, but really what is the audience size? Are there twenty of us users here? Frankly, I don't imagine that new audiences will take the time to do (for example) what I have done and build a IIgs machine to get here. I think the ease of reddit and others via web browser is the new form of communication. I don't like it, but that is what it seems to be. The ending of access from Google Groups is likely the death bell unless someone or someones basically start advertising CSA2 and how to join. And that is very unfortunate, because both CSA2 groups really have a lot to offer that isn't on the www.

[Jerry Penner]

It worked.

I've been using eternal september for years, with emacs Gnus.

As has been mentioned, the important thing for comp.sys.apple2 and
related groups to continue to see traffic is to encourage/invite folks
from other online forums to visit. Your description of how you managed
to connect is helpful. NNTP isn't well-known anymore, and there isn't a
protocol guru "across the lab" to ask, like there was back in the days
when I discovered it.

While I know about applefritter and atariage and few other places where
Apple II computing is discussed, I'm sure there are a lot of places I
don't know about. It would be good to know what those are...

--
--
Jerry jerry+a2 at jpen.ca

[Steve Nickolas]

It's my Plan B for when Eternal September hacks up a hairball.

-uso.

[Tempest]

On Thursday, December 14, 2023 at 7:06:53 PM UTC-5, fadden wrote:
> "Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups, subscribe to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can continue to view and search for historical Usenet content posted before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
>
> That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.

Certainly seems like the end of an era doesn't it? Like when all the roundtables and discussion groups closed down on the various online services. I'll admit that I've been tired of wading through all the spam to see new messages lately, so I'm not surprised that Google is finally killing the newsgroups. Hopefully AtariAge will pick up the slack and be a centralized location for Apple II discussion, but I might be a bit biased there. :)

[Jeff Blakeney]

I'm of an opposite mind with regard to web based message boards. I
can't stand them (especially reddit; what a horribly designed site). I
was keeping up on the Facebook groups for a while until a few years ago
when Facebook changed their site and made it even harder for me to find
unread posts or replies.

I would probably be okay with web based message boards if they could
write them to work like earlier systems like usenet and BBS boards.
Having unread messages clearly marked and easily accessed. "Offline"
reading would also be wonderful. Being able to grab all new messages at
once and read and reply at my leisure and then upload the replies either
immediately or in a bunch at once.

Unfortunately a lot of the web based message boards include banner ads
so they want people on their sites for as long as possible and loading
page after page. These sites have no motivation to make it easier for
the users.

I could read the messages here using my real or emulated IIgs but I've
been using Thunderbird for a very long time so I just use it with
Eternal September for reading messages here whenever I check my e-mail.

Oh, and just a note, there are five Apple II newsgroups (at least on
Eternal September): comp.emulators.apple2, comp.sys.apple2,
comp.sys.apple2.marketplace, comp.sys.apple2.programmer and
comp.sys.apple2.usergroups.

[Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev']

On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 12:40:39 PM UTC-8, I am Rob wrote:
> Facebook "Apple II enthusiasts" and "Apple IIGS enthusiasts" both have a pretty big following.

I will never use FarceBook (sic.) as long as they disrespect people by profiting off other people's data. (Not saying Google is any better.)

m.

[TRS-90]

"Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'" wrote:

> I will never use FarceBook (sic.) as long as they disrespect people by
> profiting off other people's data. (Not saying Google is any better.)
>
> m.

Farcebook. That's a pretty good one. I'm actually happy to learn that I'm not the only one who feels that Farcebook is absolute crap.

[Your Name]

Farcebook, Twithead (now Ex), Instagrunt, Pinuninterest, DickToc,
YouBoob, etc. ... *all* Social Media is complete garbage. They're badly
designed by greedy companies solely to make money from fools with
massive egos who think other people want to know what inane thing
they're doing now. :-\

"Just say 'No'." :-)

[Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev']

On Sunday, December 17, 2023 at 9:53:49 AM UTC-8, TRS-90 wrote:
> "Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'" wrote:
>
> Farcebook. That's a pretty good one. I'm actually happy to learn that I'm not the only one who feels that Farcebook is absolute crap.

Normally I use the name FecesBook for all the dumb shit people post on it but I was being polite. =P

Another name is FakeBook -- because people's lives are so devoid of any _actual_ meaning they have to get fake sentiments by posting dumb selfies crap to boost their insecurity.

At least it isn't Shitter I mean Twitter -- some people are CONSTANTLY arguing over dumb shit that no one gives a fuck about on _that_ cesspool.

God forbid you ASK an _honest question_ on Reddit before you get down-voted into oblivion by the echo chamber redditards. Seems like the GOOD subs are far and few between.

Why have we forgotten basic (n)etiquetteon on Social Media? Maybe Penny Arcade's G.I.F.T. is the reason... :-/

I guess it is time to sign up for AtariAge or some other service ... Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

m.

[Steve Nickolas]

My jab of choice is Failbook.

-uso.

[Steve Nickolas]

That is, if Nutari doesn't decide they're going to rejig it into a forum
specific to tooting their own horn and get rid of all the non-Atari stuff.
(I'm fully expecting that to happen *eventually*, just not making a
prediction on how eventually eventually is, but the second I found out
about that, I dropped the forum like a bad habit.)

-uso.

[TRS-90]

"Michael 'AppleWin Debugger Dev'" wrote:

> Why have we forgotten basic (n)etiquetteon on Social Media? Maybe Penny
> Arcade's G.I.F.T. is the reason... :-/

Because the Internet is in Eternal September.

> I guess it is time to sign up for AtariAge or some other service ...

I hear you, but I truly hope people can promote CSA2. I've been on CSA2 since 2016, I think. I have received code soulutions via this forum that I honestly am not sure people would be willing to post to the "big www". I don't think, for example, that the new ProDOS conversions will likely be announced on http. I guess I could be wrong about that.

[TRS-90]

"Steve Nickolas" wrote:

> That is, if Nutari doesn't decide they're going to rejig it into a

> specific to tooting their own horn and get rid of all the non-Atari

> stuff. (I'm fully expecting that to happen *eventually*)...

I'm with you on that one.

May I ask what system you used to post? Here on my IIgs your post included a bunch of stuff about MIME conversions, and it made me curious about how others might be connecting.

[D Finnigan]

You'll need a Plan C in that event, because Mac GUI uses Eternal-September
for NNTP access.

:-0

[Steve Nickolas]

Debian, with Alpine. (And not exactly the most up-to-date Debian, since
I've set up the machine and pretty much left it to its own devices.)

-uso.

[Steve Nickolas]

Yeah, but it'll have downloaded new messages already.

-uso.

[Scott Alfter]

In article <ulgg33$1onmo$1...@dont-email.me>,
Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com> wrote:

>On 2023-12-15 00:41:31 +0000, TRS-90 said:
>>>
>>> That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.
>>

>> That's a polite way of putting it.
>>
>> I think this could kill the csa2 groups. This sucks. For me at least,
>> Google Groups was how I found CSA2 in the first place, and I imagine
>> that is the same for many. So now new-commers won't even be able to
>> find it?

>
>Google Groups has always been an extremely crap way to read Usenet, as
>well as a source of tons of tolling morons. Anyone with sense gets a
>Usenet provider service (there are free ones) and a proper newsreader
>app.

...not to mention the recent crapflood of spam arriving via Google Groups.
It's gotten bad enough that I'm considering switching back to trn from tin
(got tin working under a really old Debian version in a Docker container,
since it won't easily compile on current systems) so that I can use this
incantation in ~/News/KILL:

/Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com/h:j

It slows down newsgroup loading, but it's effective at killing the
crapflood.

_/_
/ v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail)
(IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting!
\_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?

[Scott Alfter]

In article <uln975$317mc$1...@dont-email.me>,

Jeff Blakeney <CUTjeffre...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>I would probably be okay with web based message boards if they could
>write them to work like earlier systems like usenet and BBS boards.
>Having unread messages clearly marked and easily accessed. "Offline"
>reading would also be wonderful. Being able to grab all new messages at
>once and read and reply at my leisure and then upload the replies either
>immediately or in a bunch at once.

If RSS feeds are available on a given site, you can use those in a feed
reader to track topics with new posts.

I use a feed reader to follow a bunch of websites, but haven't tried using
it with any of the forums with Apple II content. On a whim, I tried looking
up the AtariAge RSS feeds and found that if you replace the trailing slash
in a section (?) URL with ".xml", you'll get a feed. For instance, this is
the Apple II section:

https://forums.atariage.com/forum/158-apple-ii-computers/

and this is the feed:

https://forums.atariage.com/forum/158-apple-ii-computers.xml

[none Scott Alfter]

In article <uln975$317mc$1...@dont-email.me>,
Jeff Blakeney <CUTjeffre...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

>I would probably be okay with web based message boards if they could
>write them to work like earlier systems like usenet and BBS boards.
>Having unread messages clearly marked and easily accessed. "Offline"
>reading would also be wonderful. Being able to grab all new messages at
>once and read and reply at my leisure and then upload the replies either
>immediately or in a bunch at once.

[Jeff Blakeney]

On 2023-12-18 3:21 p.m., Scott Alfter wrote:
> If RSS feeds are available on a given site, you can use those in a feed
> reader to track topics with new posts.

I vaguely remember trying RSS feeds when they first came into being but
I know I didn't continue using them. Probably because they didn't work
the way I would like. However, things may have changed since then so I
might have to give them another look. That might make it easier to read
stuff but I would probably still have to manually connect to post replies.

I'm pretty sure the Facebook groups, which were quite active when I was
using them, will not have RSS feeds.

[Andrew Roughan]

mmphosis <mmph...@macgui.com> wrote:
> I will continue to post on USENET.
>
> https://macgui.com/usenet/?group=1&id=302149
>
> and elsewhere ...
>

> Forums
> https://forums.atariage.com/forum/158-apple-ii-computers/ * thanks to "I am
> Rob"
> https://www.applefritter.com/forum/84
> https://68kmla.org/bb/index.php?forums/apple-i-lisa.27/
> https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?forums/early-apple-i-etc.32/
> https://old.reddit.com/r/apple2/
>
> In Print!
> https://juiced.gs/
>
> Podcasts
> https://rcrpodcast.com/
> https://www.open-apple.net/
> https://monsterfeet.com/1mhz/
>
> Community
> https://joinmastodon.org/servers * for example:
> https://techtoots.com/tags/appleii
> https://apple2.gs/communities.php
> https://a2central.com/resources/community/
>
> Other
> https://www.kansasfest.org/
> http://www.textfiles.com/apple/
> http://www.textfiles.com/apple/THELAMP/
> https://www.apl2bits.net/
> https://apple2online.com/
> http://www.woz.org/
>
> Any others?

Good list. Reminds me that there are other pockets that I don’t frequent.

There’s two major ones missing though.

There are lots of groups on Facebook but if you’re not there already I
certainly don’t suggest that it is something to start just for Apple Ii
content. The best should be found elsewhere and the rest you won’t miss.

I do however highly recommend the A2 Infinitum Slack space
http://apple2.gs/slack

There are channels to follow and chronological content and searching and
threads (which don’t get used enough) - but it is possible to keep up and
catch up.
There’s a bestof channel which in theory gets cross posts into interesting
threads so if you wanted to see what you’ve missed up until now you could
start there.

I personally baulk at contributing apple 2 information to a site with Atari
in the domain name. That just seems misplaced.

Regards
Andrew

[MummyChunk]

> fadden wrote:
> "Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google
Groups (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups,
subscribe to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can
continue to view and search for historical Usenet content posted
before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
>

> That might put a damper on the viability of
csa2/cea2/csa2p.

Many of use prefer to use web based front ends
instead of newsreader/nntp server access. Fortunately there are
still a few that carry the group. If yours doesn't, I'm sure they
will add it - just ask.


This is a response to the post seen at:
http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=657373884#657373884

[MummyChunk]

> fadden wrote:
> "Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google
Groups (at groups.google.com) to post content to Usenet groups,
subscribe to Usenet groups, or view new Usenet content. You can
continue to view and search for historical Usenet content posted
before February 22, 2024 on Google Groups."
>
> That might put a damper on the viability of csa2/cea2/csa2p.

Did a little digging and found the culprit of the mass spamming on
Google Groups is using some service called "DeepLeo" to do
their spamming and automated article writing. Found a DeepLeo on
Github and seems to be some sort of interface with ChatGPT

It was only a matter of time before that resource was utilized for
that type of bad activity.

[fadden]

On 12/19/2023 10:43 AM, Andrew Roughan wrote:
> I personally baulk at contributing apple 2 information to a site with Atari
> in the domain name. That just seems misplaced.

There's a musical tour right now with Def Leppard, Journey, and Steve
Miller Band. It's unlikely these would have been touring together back
in the day. If you wait long enough it all gets rolled together. :-)

[Scott Alfter]

In article <ulscpj$3et2$1...@dont-email.me>,

Jeff Blakeney <CUTjeffre...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>On 2023-12-18 3:21 p.m., Scott Alfter wrote:
>> If RSS feeds are available on a given site, you can use those in a feed
>> reader to track topics with new posts.
>
>I vaguely remember trying RSS feeds when they first came into being but
>I know I didn't continue using them. Probably because they didn't work
>the way I would like.

Some sites return the entire article at a link, while others only return a
summary. I knocked together a script that somewhat helps with the latter,
but malformed HTML can confuse it, leading to parts of the article not being
included.

>I'm pretty sure the Facebook groups, which were quite active when I was
>using them, will not have RSS feeds.

Definitely not. They'd prefer you never ventured outside their walled
garden.

--

[Andrew Roughan]

Andrew Roughan <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> mmphosis <mmph...@macgui.com> wrote:
>
> I do however highly recommend the A2 Infinitum Slack space
> http://apple2.gs/slack
>
> There are channels to follow and chronological content and searching and
> threads (which don’t get used enough) - but it is possible to keep up and
> catch up.
> There’s a bestof channel which in theory gets cross posts into interesting
> threads so if you wanted to see what you’ve missed up until now you could
> start there.

I thought that this may stir some interest in the Slack space, but it does
not appear to have enticed anyone. Which is perplexing when I tried to give
it a great wrap.

Regards
Andrew

[Jeff Blakeney]

I'm pretty sure I looked into Slack when people first started using it
for Apple II content but wasn't impressed. I just clicked the link in
the post but I can't even see what it is like without giving them an
e-mail address. I do have some junk addresses but as I really haven't
liked any web based system I've seen so far, I'm not sure it is worth
the bother.

[TRS-90]

> I'm pretty sure I looked into Slack when people first started using it
> for Apple II content but wasn't impressed.

I personally feel that an Apple II forum should be reachable via an Apple II. I'm not sure if that makes me a "purist" or more likely an "idiot". I've tried Slack, and yes, I know things like that have very good interaction. 8-Bit Guy very politely clued me in to some of the web-based forums and my questions certainly did get answered by very knowledgable persons (in my case Nox Archaist in A2Desktop questions).

But I'm still an aging idiot, and prefer non-web anything when it comes to Apple II stuff. Yes, I need the IIgs for Usenet, but on IIe the Telnet sites are really good ( I admit that the time limitations are annoying).

I just think that Usenet and Telnet are very viable still.

Thanks for reading,

Matt

[D Finnigan]

Jeff Blakeney wrote:
>
> but as I really haven't
> liked any web based system I've seen so far, I'm not sure it is worth
> the bother.
>

Which is unfortunate, because as I discovered just a few years ago, it's
where most all the Apple II discussion activity has gone from csa2.

There's a lot of useful stuff going on in this Slack group, but it's like an
IRC where you have to scroll back a lot to read older messages if you want
to catch up.

--
]DF$
The New Apple II User's Guide:
https://macgui.com/newa2guide/

[Jerry Penner]

I went to the site. No HTTPS certificate, for one thing. Tried to sign
up and got an error: "Error:Error: certificate has expired". Sounds
like the same problem in two forms.

I'd give it a try if I could get in.


--
Jerry jerry+a2 at jpen.ca

[Oliver Schmidt]

Hi,

> Which is unfortunate, because as I discovered just a few years ago, it's
> where most all the Apple II discussion activity has gone from csa2.

That's THE point. It doesn't matter if I personally like of dislike Slack.
It's where "it" happens today.

Regards,
Oliver

[Scott Alfter]

No certificate errors here (must've been upgraded), but demanding an email
address right off the bat is a turn-off.

[You're Kidding]

On Dec 29, 2023 at 12:13:54 PM EST, "Scott Alfter" <Scott Alfter> wrote:

> In article <yubv88h...@jpen.ca>, Jerry Penner <jerr...@jpen.ca> wrote:
>> Andrew Roughan <no_e...@invalid.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> Andrew Roughan <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>> mmphosis <mmph...@macgui.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I do however highly recommend the A2 Infinitum Slack space
>>>> http://apple2.gs/slack
>>>>
>>>> There are channels to follow and chronological content and searching and
>>>> threads (which don’t get used enough) - but it is possible to keep up and
>>>> catch up.
>>>> There’s a bestof channel which in theory gets cross posts into
>> interesting
>>>> threads so if you wanted to see what you’ve missed up until now you could
>>>> start there.
>>>
>>> I thought that this may stir some interest in the Slack space, but it does
>>> not appear to have enticed anyone. Which is perplexing when I tried to give
>>> it a great wrap.
>>
>> I went to the site. No HTTPS certificate, for one thing. Tried to sign
>> up and got an error: "Error:Error: certificate has expired". Sounds
>> like the same problem in two forms.
>
> No certificate errors here (must've been upgraded), but demanding an email
> address right off the bat is a turn-off.

I get the same error message trying with 4 different browsers. I've been
trying to access slack for over a month.

[Kent Dickey]

In article <umft04$3li8f$1...@dont-email.me>,

I can confirm what others are saying and that http://apple2.gs/slack is
not working. It asks for an email address, and then goes to an error page
saying "Error:Error: certificate has expired" at apple2.gs:3000/invite.

Web stuff interfacing to Slack is a lot of work, and it breaks easily,
so we need to be patient while this is resolved. This apple2.gs/slack site
I think is meant to be a way to get to a "Slack Invite page", which I think
can be accomplished with a longer invite that looks like:
https://join.slack.com/t/apple2infinitum/..../. Inviting people to slack
using Slack's methods invites one person at a time manually. This apple2.gs
site is trying to make this invite process simpler, so you can enter your
own email address and receive a Slack invite. It is not where the
Apple2infinitum is hosted. This apple2.gs/slack page is a plain page
asking for your email address--since that's all it's trying to do.

The Apple2infinitum slack gets 20+ posts per day or so, of generally very
high quality, divided over about 30 channels (or topics). If you have
any interest in Apple II topics, you should join. I view it using the
Slack browser interface, so any modern web browser is fine.

For anyone: If you email me, I can send you an invite, since anyone already
on apple2infinitum can invite others. I do not run the site, I'm just a
user (reasonably happy, but I will never "love" Slack).

Kent

[Bill Chatfield]

On Fri, 29 Dec 2023 17:35:03 -0000 (UTC)
You're Kidding <y...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >> I went to the site. No HTTPS certificate, for one thing. Tried
> >> to sign up and got an error: "Error:Error: certificate has
> >> expired". Sounds like the same problem in two forms.
> >
> > No certificate errors here (must've been upgraded), but demanding
> > an email address right off the bat is a turn-off.
>
> I get the same error message trying with 4 different browsers. I've
> been trying to access slack for over a month.

At http://apple2.gs:3000/invite I get:

Error:Error: certificate has expired

The the first error is an error, so I'm not sure what the real error
is. Haha

[Kent Dickey]

In article <20231230122350.1f7ee9cc@smilodon-gracilis>,

The http://apple2.gs/slack site has now been fixed by Dagen Brock. Try
to join again.

Kent

[Bill Chatfield]

On Sun, 31 Dec 2023 17:43:20 -0000 (UTC)
ke...@provalid.com (Kent Dickey) wrote:

> The http://apple2.gs/slack site has now been fixed by Dagen Brock.
> Try to join again.
>
> Kent

Yes, I was able to join. It feels more like work, where I use Teams.
I'll probably get use to it.

[Jerry Penner]

Thank-you, that works now. Happy New Year to all!

[Jeff Jonas]

>>> "Starting on February 22, 2024, you can no longer use Google Groups ...

>> That's so typical Google - killing services at a whim.

That's because we're not the customer, the advertisors/underwriters are.
We're just the free source of the content that Google "monetizes".

> Most Internet Service Providers
> killed off their free Usenet access years ago

a) because that required the ISP to run a server.
b) phone companies are allowed "common carrier" status:
they're not responsible for the content of the phone calls,
just as the post office is not responsible for what's in the envelope.
They just deliver the contents.
Somehow USENET providers were NOT granted that immunity,
so they didn't want to risk the liability of people misbehaving with their postings :-(

> (as well as free email and website space), and yet
>continue to charge more and more money for less and less services.

It's not free if you're paying a monthly fee.
It WAS a contractual obligation until the ISP felt like eliminating the service.

So now that the ISP is not running the email or web server,
where's that budget going?

That further forces folks to use Google or Yahoo for their "free" email
and post articles behind walled-gardens such as Facebook
(who "monetize" all that free content).

The burning of the library of Alexandria is NOTHING compared to all the knowledge lost
when Yahoo groups, Delphi Forums, GEnie roundtables ... shut down
with no consideration for archiving.


--

[D Finnigan]

Jeff Jonas wrote:
>
> The burning of the library of Alexandria is NOTHING compared to all the
> knowledge lost
> when Yahoo groups, Delphi Forums, GEnie roundtables ... shut down
> with no consideration for archiving.
>

Thus destruction, the fate of all things.

[Hugh Hood]

David,

Don't be so modest. You yourself did a pretty decent job of preserving a
lot of the old GEnie BB stuff on MacGUI.

Of course, I still value greatly the 'Time in a Bottle Collection' that
had everything (Libraries and BB discussions) from GEnie A2 and A2Pro
archived in one place.

Someone should try to get that reclassified. Maybe it's already up
somewhere?

In case others are wondering what it contained, here 'ya go:

<http://www.apple2works.com/genieappleiifiles.pdf>


I was only on Compuserve for a short time, but I do wish those Apple II
discussion archives were available somewhere. There was a lot of red
meat there.




Hugh Hood

[I am Rob]

> In case others are wondering what it contained, here 'ya go:
>
> <http://www.apple2works.com/genieappleiifiles.pdf>
>
>> I was only on Compuserve for a short time, but I do wish those Apple II
> discussion archives were available somewhere. There was a lot of red
> meat there.

Hold the Frick. There is a lot there I have never seen before. I have a couple of 2 gig disk images I am filling up. Already 1 full of IIGS Apps, games, utilites, music and graphics. Starting on the Apple II programs next. Would be nice to sift thru all that. The ultimate goal is having everything decompressed and stored in folders so the only thing compressed is the disk image.

[Steven Nelson]

On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 7:00:56 PM UTC-6, Andrew Roughan wrote:
> Andrew Roughan <no_e...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > mmphosis <mmph...@macgui.com> wrote:
> >
> > I do however highly recommend the A2 Infinitum Slack space
> > http://apple2.gs/slack
> >

My problem with slack is they dropped support for older OSX versions. Now I can only access slack via my iPhone but not my Macs. It is not much fun using the iPhone so I have stopped using slack. There must be a better discussion platform.
--Steven

[I am Rob]

> > > I do however highly recommend the A2 Infinitum Slack space
> > > http://apple2.gs/slack
> > >
> My problem with slack is they dropped support for older OSX versions. Now I can only access slack via my iPhone but not my Macs. It is not much fun using the iPhone so I have stopped using slack. There must be a better discussion platform.

It is not about the OSX version, but about the latest web browser that can work on that OSX. What version of OSX are you using? I am using FireFox on 10.13, and both are already outdated.

[Your Name]

Firefox is on its last full release (currently version 115) for MacOS
10.12, 10.13, and 10.14, but is still getting security updates and will
do until September 2024. (See article below.)

Chrome and Brave are also dropping support for these older versions of
MacOS. :-(

Chromium Legacy is one of the few (only?) web browsers still being
updated for older versions of MacOS.
<https://github.com/blueboxd/chromium-legacy/releases>

The web browsers themselves will of course still work, although the
number of websites that don't work properly will slowly grow. I've
noticed it already happening in MacOS 10.13 Safari, but so far it is
only a couple of websites that I only occassionally use.




Firefox support for macOS 10.12, 10.13 and 10.14
------------------------------------------------
July 6, 2023

With Firefox 115, users on macOS 10.12 (Sierra), macOS 10.13
(High Sierra) and macOS 10.14 (Mojave) will automatically be
moved to the Firefox Extended Support Release (ESR).

While Apple doesn’t have an official policy governing security
updates for older macOS releases, their recent practice has
been to support the most recent three releases. The last
security update for macOS 10.14 was nearly two years ago in
July 2021. Moving users to the ESR 115 version of Firefox will
allow Mozilla to continue providing security updates until at
least September 2024. Users do not need to take additional
action to receive these updates.

We strongly encourage users to upgrade to a version of macOS
that is supported by Apple. When migrating to a new device,
users can use a Firefox Account to easily keep all of their
settings, ensuring all bookmarks, browsing history and saved
passwords are immediately available after installing Firefox.

Unsupported operating systems receive no security updates and
can be dangerous for you to use. For planning purposes,
enterprises using Firefox should consider September 2024 as
the support end date for macOS 10.12, 10.13 and 10.14.


<https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2023/07/06/firefox-support-for-macos-10-12-10-13-and-10-14/>

[Mike Spangler]

> With Firefox 115, users on macOS 10.12 (Sierra), macOS 10.13
> (High Sierra) and macOS 10.14 (Mojave) will automatically be
> moved to the Firefox Extended Support Release (ESR).

Linux dual boots quite happily on an intel Mac. I have it on a 2009 Mini, and there Firefox is supported. Slow, but supported. On a 2012 mini ($100 used) Linux is quite spritely. I use the Xfce version as supposedly it's easier on the graphics.

It may come down to that option in the end.

[Ant]

Anyone triple boots (macOS, Linux, and Bootcamp's Windows)?
--
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities ??? his eternal power and divine nature ??? have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." --Romans 1:20. Cold and rain again. Tired too. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
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