Question about Timex (TOS) CP/M 2.2

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Bruno Florindo

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Dec 3, 2008, 8:48:10 PM12/3/08
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Hi. This week a friend of mine was going through old Timex FDD3000 3"
disks and found out that one of them, with the title of 'Timex
Portugal CP/M 2.2' had been formatted and there was nothing that could
be recovered. I guess that at the time the user didn't think of how
important it would be now... This has made me want to find that
version of CP/M even more, but none of my fellow Portuguese friends
know anything about it. Can anyone shed some light on the subject or
give me a few suggestions on how to find this again? Thanks in advance.

CBFalconer

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Dec 3, 2008, 10:00:11 PM12/3/08
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All versions of CP/M 2.2 are identical, except for the load point.
Any system with a LOADCPM has a relocatable version. The only
differences are in the bios. See the CP/M documentation for its
requirements.

--
[mail]: Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
[page]: <http://cbfalconer.home.att.net>
Try the download section.

Tom Lake

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Dec 4, 2008, 8:07:14 AM12/4/08
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"CBFalconer" <cbfal...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:493747BB...@yahoo.com...

> Bruno Florindo wrote:
>>
>> Hi. This week a friend of mine was going through old Timex FDD3000
>> 3" disks and found out that one of them, with the title of 'Timex
>> Portugal CP/M 2.2' had been formatted and there was nothing that
>> could be recovered. I guess that at the time the user didn't think
>> of how important it would be now... This has made me want to find
>> that version of CP/M even more, but none of my fellow Portuguese
>> friends know anything about it. Can anyone shed some light on the
>> subject or give me a few suggestions on how to find this again?
>> Thanks in advance.
>
> All versions of CP/M 2.2 are identical, except for the load point.
> Any system with a LOADCPM has a relocatable version. The only
> differences are in the bios. See the CP/M documentation for its
> requirements.

"identical"??? The command processor may be but don't forget that
some of the utilities may be customized! Example: Kaypro's program
for formatting disks was all menu driven and had customizations specific to
Kaypro hardware. Likewise Commodore's CP/M 3.0 FORMAT won't work on
other hardware.

Tom Lake

Zbigniew Niedzwiedz

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Dec 4, 2008, 8:41:00 AM12/4/08
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I had the same problem and Yarek helped me, now I can help you :-)

http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/cpmtimex.zip

Use CPCDiskXP to write to 3" diskette (and remember to set drive jumper
to "B").
--
zo...@lu.onet.pl - Zbigniew Niedźwiedź - GSM/SMS:+48601263351
http://www.omega.computer.lublin.pl GaduGadu #589387
Suma inteligencji na planecie jest stała. Populacja rośnie.

John Elliott

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Dec 4, 2008, 6:45:35 PM12/4/08
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In comp.sys.amstrad.8bit Zbigniew Niedzwiedz <zo...@lu.onet.pl> wrote:
: http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/cpmtimex.zip

I managed to read both disks using the technique I described in
<imo9hg...@seasip.demon.co.uk>, though the second one needed a different
entry in diskdefs (only two system tracks, and a different skew):

diskdef fdd3000_2
seclen 256
tracks 40
sectrk 16
blocksize 1024
maxdir 128
boottrk 2
os 2.2
skew 5
end


% cpmls -F -f fdd3000_2 ya3011.ufi

Name Bytes Recs Attr update create
------------ ------ ------ ---- ----------------- -----------------
ASM .COM 8K 64
BACKUP .COM 2K 12
BIOS .ASM 12K 96
CBIOS .MAC 26K 201
CONFIGUR.COM 3K 19
DDT .COM 5K 40
DUMP .COM 1K 4
ED .COM 7K 52
FORMAT .COM 2K 12
KSIAZKI .I01 1K 3
KSIAZKI .I02 1K 3
KSIAZKI .I04 1K 3
KSJAZKI .DSC 8K 57
KSJAZKI .DTA 1K 1
LOAD .COM 2K 14
MOVCPM .COM 12K 92
PIP .COM 8K 58
STAT .COM 6K 41
SUBMIT .COM 2K 10
SYSGEN .COM 1K 8
XSUB .COM 1K 6
21 Files occupying 110K, 38K Free.

--
John Elliott

Thinks: This is what a nice clean life leads to. Hmm, why did I ever lead one?
-- Bluebottle, in the Goon Show

zxbruno

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Dec 4, 2008, 7:36:04 PM12/4/08
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On Dec 4, 3:45 pm, John Elliott <j...@seasip.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In comp.sys.amstrad.8bit Zbigniew Niedzwiedz <z...@lu.onet.pl> wrote:
> :http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/cpmtimex.zip
>
> I managed to read both disks using the technique I described in
> <imo9hg.sm4...@seasip.demon.co.uk>, though the second one needed a different

@John: Wow!!! Thank you so much!!! I'm going to share these news with
everyone who was helping me, and I'll credit you, of course. I know
it's just the beginning, but I really, really appreciate this!

@Zbigniew Niedzwiedz: Thanks! But is that the original TMX Portugal's
CP/M 2.22? Or is it Jarek's modified/expanded version?

Michael Haardt

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Dec 5, 2008, 3:49:56 AM12/5/08
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zxbruno <zxspec...@gmail.com> writes:
> > diskdef fdd3000_2
> > seclen 256
> > tracks 40
> > sectrk 16
> > blocksize 1024
> > maxdir 128
> > boottrk 2
> > os 2.2
> > skew 5
> > end

I will include that entry in the diskdefs, but do you have any further
information on the system that uses that format? A SKEW OF 5??? That
is awful for a system as modern as 3", because it forbids faster disc
functions allowing a smaller physical skew.

Michael

OwenBot

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Dec 5, 2008, 3:51:19 AM12/5/08
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I have a sneaking suspicion it's a non Timex CP/M but based on the
genuine 2.2 version. I think the text display is Jarek's own. I may be
completely wrong. However, it should be 100% compatible with the Timex
version if it is differnt. I'd send Jarek an email and ask him. Tell
him I said hi!

Zbigniew Niedzwiedz

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Dec 5, 2008, 12:01:18 PM12/5/08
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On Thu, 4 Dec 2008 16:36:04 -0800 (PST), zxbruno
<zxspec...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Dec 4, 3:45 pm, John Elliott <j...@seasip.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> In comp.sys.amstrad.8bit Zbigniew Niedzwiedz <z...@lu.onet.pl> wrote:
>> :http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/cpmtimex.zip
>>
>> I managed to read both disks using the technique I described in
>> <imo9hg.sm4...@seasip.demon.co.uk>, though the second one needed a different
>> entry in diskdefs (only two system tracks, and a different skew):
>>
>> diskdef fdd3000_2
>> seclen 256
>> tracks 40
>> sectrk 16
>> blocksize 1024
>> maxdir 128
>> boottrk 2
>> os 2.2
>> skew 5
>> end
>>
>> % cpmls -F -f fdd3000_2 ya3011.ufi

One of them (terminal) is in TOS A.2 format, second one is in CP/M SSDD
(described above) format.

For TOS A.2 maybe format definitions from 22disk will be helpful:

BEGIN TMX1 ZX Spectrum - TIMEX FDD (side 1)
DENSITY MFM ,LOW
CYLINDERS 40
SIDES 1
SECTORS 16,256
SIDE1 0 0,7,14,5,12,3,10,1,8,15,6,13,4,11,2,9
BSH 3 BLM 7 EXM 0 DSM 143 DRM 127 AL0 11110000B AL1 0 OFS 4
END

BEGIN TMX2 ZX Spectrum - TIMEX FDD (side 2)
DENSITY MFM ,LOW
CYLINDERS 40
SIDES 2
SECTORS 16,256
SIDE1 0 0,7,14,5,12,3,10,1,8,15,6,13,4,11,2,9
SIDE2 0 0,7,14,5,12,3,10,1,8,15,6,13,4,11,2,9
ORDER EAGLE
BSH 3 BLM 7 EXM 0 DSM 143 DRM 127 AL0 11110000B AL1 0 OFS 44
END

BEGIN TMX3 ZX Spectrum - TIMEX FDD (640kB)
DENSITY MFM ,LOW
CYLINDERS 80
SIDES 2
SECTORS 16,256
SIDE1 0 0,7,14,5,12,3,10,1,8,15,6,13,4,11,2,9
SIDE2 0 0,7,14,5,12,3,10,1,8,15,6,13,4,11,2,9
BSH 5 BLM 31 EXM 3 DSM 143 DRM 127 AL0 10000000B AL1 0 OFS 4
END

On my diskette is:

Side A:

*** MONITOR EMULATOR for the TIMEX COMPUTER **
Version P1.1
* Copyright by TMX PORTUGAL *
( P/N 398-909465 )

Side B:

CP/M Version 2.2
Copyright by DIGITAL RESEARCH,INC.
Cbios Version A1.1 Copyright by TMX PORTUGAL
SERIAL NUMBER 5005-62028

You can delete KSIAZKI.* from side B - obviously it's not a part of
original CP/M system (means "books.*" in polish).

Bruno Florindo

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Dec 5, 2008, 12:20:32 PM12/5/08
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> z...@lu.onet.pl - Zbigniew NiedŸwiedŸ - GSM/SMS:+48601263351http://www.omega.computer.lublin.pl GaduGadu #589387
> Suma inteligencji na planecie jest sta³a. Populacja roœnie.

These things are way over my head. :)

So, is that disk available for download as .DSK? Is it the same you
mentioned two days ago? I would like to be able to use cpdwrite to put
back the original software on my 3" Timex cp/m disc.

@Michael: I'm not sure what the diskdefs. Do you need the complete
details of the Timex TOS too? John helped me figure out how to get
data from my disk images here:

Can Amstrad PCWs read Timex TOS disks?
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/comp.sys.amstrad.8bit/browse_thread/thread/aa809b6f6b9c6f7f#

John Elliott

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Dec 5, 2008, 3:38:17 PM12/5/08
to
In comp.sys.amstrad.8bit Michael Haardt <mic...@moria.de> wrote:

: zxbruno <zxspec...@gmail.com> writes:
:> > diskdef fdd3000_2
:> > seclen 256
:> > tracks 40
:> > sectrk 16
:> > blocksize 1024
:> > maxdir 128
:> > boottrk 2
:> > os 2.2
:> > skew 5
:> > end

: I will include that entry in the diskdefs, but do you have any further
: information on the system that uses that format? A SKEW OF 5???

The other format has a skew of 7:

diskdef fdd3000


seclen 256
tracks 40
sectrk 16
blocksize 1024
maxdir 128

boottrk 4
os 2.2
skew 7
end

The documentation referred to on the other thread in csa8 is:

<http://timex.comboios.info/tos.html>

where it describes several variants of the Timex format. The extension for
user area labels (first byte of dir entry = 0xFF) is one I haven't seen
before.

Zbigniew Niedzwiedz

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Dec 6, 2008, 2:26:00 PM12/6/08
to
On Fri, 5 Dec 2008 20:38:17 +0000, John Elliott <j...@seasip.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

In '91 I wrote FDD3000 CP/M program which could handle MS-DOS&CP/M
disk&files:

http://www.omega.computer.lublin.pl/images/bajtek.jpg

To handle other than standard TIMEX CP/M disk I had to set 2 things: DPB
and interleave (skew). In TOS (every version) it was 7, in CP/M 5.

Source fragment:

DEFB 1,6,11,16,5,10,15,4,9,14,3,8,13,2,7,12;PRZEPLOT 5
DEFB 1,8,15,6,13,4,11,2,9,16,7,14,5,12,3,10;PRZEPLOT 7

DEFB 32,0,3,7,0,143,0,127,0,240,0,32,0,4,0;DPB TOS V A.2
DEFB 32,0,3,7,0,167,0,127,0,240,0,32,0,0,0;DPB TOS V A.4
DEFB 32,0,3,7,0,151,0,63,0,240,0,16,0,2,0;DPB CP/M TIMEX
DEFB 32,0,3,7,0,151,0,63,0,192,0,16,0,2,0;DPB CP/M POLBRIT
DEFB 32,0,4,15,1,155,0,127,0,240,0,32,0,2,0;DPB CP/M 80 TRACKS


--
zo...@lu.onet.pl - Zbigniew Niedźwiedź - GSM/SMS:+48601263351

http://www.omega.computer.lublin.pl GaduGadu #589387
Suma inteligencji na planecie jest stała. Populacja rośnie.

John Elliott

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Dec 6, 2008, 7:11:43 PM12/6/08
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In comp.sys.amstrad.8bit Bruno Florindo <zxspec...@gmail.com> wrote:

: These things are way over my head. :)

Well, you may have an easier solution now.

Download TIMEX2P3 from <http://www.seasip.info/ZX/unix.html>. It ought to
convert .DSK files similar to the ones I've seen to a format that can be
read on a (real or emulated) Spectrum +3, or to 713k PCDOS format.

I've included a compiled version for PCDOS, and source for Unixy systems.

zxbruno

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Dec 13, 2008, 4:39:06 AM12/13/08
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On Dec 6, 4:11 pm, John Elliott <j...@seasip.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Justed wanted to thank you for the utility you created. It worked on
all my .DSK files.

caeta...@gmail.com

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Aug 4, 2017, 8:53:35 PM8/4/17
to
Hi,

Can some one give me a working link for the "cpmtimex.zip" file or other .DSK images of the original 3" Timex floppy?

The "http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/cpmtimex.zip" URL is not working.

Thanks,

José Silva

Zbigniew Niedzwiedz

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Sep 26, 2017, 8:49:10 PM9/26/17
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On Fri, 4 Aug 2017 17:53:33 -0700 (PDT), caeta...@gmail.com wrote:
http://8bit.computer.lublin.pl/files/dsk/spectrum/cpm/cpmtimex.zip
should be OK.
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