Re: Tulip/Commodore press conference is coming online soon (VISIT www.commodoreworld.com/press ASAP)
Jim Brain
> Visit the site at www.commodoreworld.com/press ASAP.
> It should be up shortly.
>
> Anyone in the Europe Area or in the Netherlands should check it out.
>
>
>
Notes from the conference:
Conference started at 3:30AM Central Daylight Time (830UTC)
The initial presenter was Jan Douwe Kroeske (TV announceer?).
Started with a montage of Commodore pics and ads.
Worldwide CBM community of 6 million people
Ruud Baltisen (45) was introduced
Ruud talked about his introduction to the C64
Ruud spoke about getting into PC arena, but came back to the 64 in 1993
He then talked about the Internet (USENET) as a place to get information
and the "community"
He spoke about the Final Cartridge
IDE64 was mentioned
Ruud spoke of the emotional attachment of users and the CBM computers
There was a puase in the presentation ("Chaka Khan" was played via record")
Jan returned to the stage.
Commodore Sales Director Gerben Romijn was introduced and came to the stage
Showed slides:
Commodore wants to become a global player in the entertainment arena
Commodore has 80% brand recognition in Holland, same stats elsewhere
Mission: Bring "digital fun" to the consumer
Strategy: Bring Commodore into the whole world again. (Web/Partners)
Commodore will focus on legal distribution of content.
Partners:
Yeahronimal
Ironstone
Euroline
...
Family (CBM + Partners) called CommodoreWorld (showed commodoreworld.com
home page GFX)
CBM will also market merchandising: CDs, DVDs, etc.
Commodore hardware will be a "me-too" set of products
Commodore fpet (F-PET) (Flash memory USB 2.0 keyfob type drive)
Commodore mpet (M-PET) (Music Flash Ipod type device)
Commodore evic (E-VIC, e is backwards) (hard drive 20 GB hard drive Ipod
type device)
Darren Melborne from Ironstone Partners UK was introduced
Darin talked about the 60's (Spacewars), the 70's (Nolan Bushnell and
Pong), the 80's (Commodore).
Darin talked about the history of Commodore
Jack Tramiel
Commodore Calculators
MOS Technologies (Chuck Peddle) and the 6502
PET machines
VIC-20
C64 (A legend is born)
SID
Accredited as the best selling home machine of all time.
C64 (1982-1994 RIP?)
Commodore Scene
Commodore Future
Ironstone will provide an ever growing catalog of games on
commodoreworld.com
Emulators will be added to the site (starting with Pocket C64)
Direct 2 TV (based on original hardware with 1 or 2 tweaks) (Q4 delivery)
New C64 Hardware?
(More music)
Jan returned to the stage
Someone (Rene) from Yeahronimo was introduced that talked about legal
media distribution
Yeahronimo, as a Commodore partner, will be a music reseller (192kBps
.99 euro per track, .50 euro for bundles)
Jan returned to the stage
Gerben Romijn returned to the stage and talked about future directions
(wireless entertainment box)
Showed a wireless entertainment system (played some Brtiney Spears).
Unit had an on screen interface viewed via a large HDTV flat screen (42"
or so)
They then opened the commodoreworld web site
The presentation ended at 4:31 AM Central Daylight Time (0931UTC)
Others who watched, please feel free to correct errors
Jim
--
Jim Brain, Brain Innovations
br...@jbrain.com http://www.jbrain.com
Dabbling in WWW, Embedded Systems, Old CBM computers, and Good Times!
Robert Bernardo
> Notes from the conference:
[snip]
Thanks, Jim, for your summary!
Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
Robert Bernardo
> Ruud Baltisen (45) was introduced
> Ruud talked about his introduction to the C64
> Ruud spoke about getting into PC arena, but came back to the 64 in 1993
> He then talked about the Internet (USENET) as a place to get information and
> the "community"
> He spoke about the Final Cartridge
> IDE64 was mentioned
> Ruud spoke of the emotional attachment of users and the CBM computers
Hooray for Ruud! Nice guy! And now... famous! :-)
> Commodore Scene
Ah... and Allan Bairstow's magazine got a nod.
Congratulations,
Riccardo Rubini
>> Ruud spoke of the emotional attachment of users and the CBM computers
>
> Hooray for Ruud! Nice guy! And now... famous! :-)
Sadly I missed that part. Ruud is a very nice guy, I am happy for him. It
would be very nice to hear a review straight from him here on comp.sys.cbm
in the future.
I don't know about you people, but I am unimpressed by the overall thing.
It's nice to know Commodore does somehow "exist" again, but nothing I saw
there really catched my interest. We already had flash pens, the iPod, mp3
players and we already had *free* emulators, and Epyx games, with
everybody's silent consent, spread around for free. Also we already had
recordable optical medias.
The only thing that grasped my attention - and caught my hopes - has been
that "New C64 hardware?" question popping up on screen while the Ironstone
representative made his speech.
Riccardo
Jim Brain
> Hooray for Ruud! Nice guy! And now... famous! :-)
>> Commodore Scene
>
>
> Ah... and Allan Bairstow's magazine got a nod.
party "scene", etc.
My notes were (are) very rough, as I tried to just literally write as
the presenters spoke.
Robert Bernardo
> My notes were (are) very rough, as I tried to just literally write as the
> presenters spoke.
I've been in that kind of situation. :-)
Too bad that there wasn't a video capture of the event (or even an
audio-recording of it).
A time when a text-browser
did not help,
mikec
> I don't know about you people, but I am unimpressed by the overall thing.
No...I wasn't impressed either. The whole presentation looked like it
was put together by a bunch of high school students. This was the
official relaunch? Even people in the audience looked bored at times.
You could see them looking around the room in boredom, not really
paying attention to whomever was speaking.
I think the naming convention of fpet, evic, etc. is just plain
stupid. Over all, I find their marketing to be very lazy and it
certainly lacks savvy.
Also, they really didn't announce anything new (except for maybe the
evic). We already knew about the usb memory sticks and the C64DTV.
It's unfortunate that Tulip is trying to become the Euro version of
iTunes Music Store with their own iPod-type device. It's a fairly
crowded field so I'm not sure Tulip's going to be able to carve a
niche into the marketplace. I just read something this morning on
Yahoo! News (also on BBC news) about Napster giving away portable
music players. All I can say is good luck, Tulip.
> players and we already had *free* emulators, and Epyx games, with
> everybody's silent consent, spread around for free. Also we already had
Exactly my thoughts and why do they continue to claim 6 million users?
First they say that between 22 and 30 million C-64's were sold then
they say the active user base is 6 million? So, a quarter are still in
use? I just don't think their numbers add up.
> that "New C64 hardware?" question popping up on screen while the Ironstone
> representative made his speech.
Maybe they're referring to the C-One. That would be my guess.
I think they'd be better off launching a line of Commodore-branded
PC's and bundling emulation software and somes games for free. If they
think they're going to rebuild Commodore as a global brand by selling
usb memory sticks, mp3 players, and 20-year old Epyx software, they've
got to be kidding themselves.
Anyway, this announcement didn't seem significant and largely ignored
by the world press. None of the major media outlets even mentioned it
(so far) and it didn't even appear on Slashdot. ;)
MikeC
Robert Bernardo
>> that "New C64 hardware?" question popping up on screen while the Ironstone
>> representative made his speech.
>
> Maybe they're referring to the C-One. That would be my guess.
:-)
> I think they'd be better off launching a line of Commodore-branded
> PC's...
They already have those.
Truly,
Jim Brain
Actually, there is.
David Wood and Per Olofsson captured the stream to disk. Hopefully, one
of them will provide a link at some point.
Rick Balkins
"Jim Brain" <br...@jbrain.com> wrote in message
news:hAdAc.68163$Sw.8984@attbi_s51...
>
> Notes from the conference:
>
> Conference started at 3:30AM Central Daylight Time (830UTC)
<<< snip >>>
> Gerben Romijn returned to the stage and talked about future directions
> (wireless entertainment box)
>
> Showed a wireless entertainment system (played some Brtiney Spears).
> Unit had an on screen interface viewed via a large HDTV flat screen (42"
> or so)
>
> They then opened the commodoreworld web site
>
> The presentation ended at 4:31 AM Central Daylight Time (0931UTC)
>
>
> Others who watched, please feel free to correct errors
I watched the conference - though they started a little behind schedule. I
will discuss with Tulip in getting a copy of the press conference and
possibly for them to have it DLabble.
Now - there are more stuff that has been discussed to/from me that they
hadn't talked about in the press conference though. In the mean time, it
doesn't bother me that they have "me too" products but hey Commodore started
off as a "me too" company at one time. Then again every company can be see
as a me too. Even computer manufacturers. Though this is fine to gather
capital from a growing market of gadgetry - I feel they should get into more
detail in what they have plans for Commodore users who use "Commodore
64/128".
Rick Balkins
Actually - if they take my suggestion to them - it is technically neither
but the C-One would be a reference point for part of it. I am not greatly
impressed by the "me too" products but they are useful to catch some
capital. Not phenominal amounts but double digit to triple digit millions of
dollars can be gotten even if you are an off brand. This means that $20-250
million in sales can be achieved easily in this market but that is a great
amount to "kick-start" R&D for a "cool" product. Right now - we are talking
a $30 million buget basically but if you can triple that or quadruple that -
great.
"mikec" <mike...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1121cdb3.04061...@posting.google.com...
<<< snip >>>
Rick Balkins
"Robert Bernardo" <rber...@iglou.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.60.0406171224440.17329@shell1...
Jim Brain
forgot to do this morning...Sorry)
Those who arrived to the web site befire the meeting were greeted with a
live feed of the presentation location, a recording studio "booth".
Viewers watched gophers adding chairs, presenters checking slides, and
camera checks galore.
The presentation started with a switch of feed from the stage to an
outdoor shot, where a blue car with a huge C= logo on the side came to a
stop and Dutch TV personality Jan Douwe Kroeske stepped out of the
vehicle and walked into the back of the building, at which point the
video switched back to the "booth", where the shot showed the door as
being at the back of the makeshift stage.
Jan introduced himself and explained to the crowd the significance of
the location (many headline acts used this recording studio for some
seminal works). Jan then asked if the audience felt it was appropriate
that this announcement happen in this studio, and answered for everyone
that it was. Jan gave some background on Commodore and the Commodore
machine lineup. At that point, the presentation switched to a nostalgic
photo/video montage of various Commodore 64 variants (64, 64C, 128,
SX64) and a revue of Commodore 8-bit advertisements. The ads seemed
European in nature, although the classic "classical" Commodore 64
advertisement (the one where a classical piece plays in the background
as the announcer speaks) should be well known to Commodore enthusiasts
all ovr the world. Interpersed with the video and photos were factoids
about the Commodore line (Guiness Record, etc.) I felt the initial
automobile shot was trite, the explanation of the rationale for the
presentation locale was weak, and the montage seemed amateurish.
After the montage, Jan introduced Ruud Baltissen, a name that should be
familiar to those in comp.sys.cbm (http://home.hccnet.nl/g.baltissen/).
It seemed Ruud was there to explain the continued relevance of the
Commodore brand from an "everyman" point of view, and also to help
smooth the inevitable clash between the classic community and the new
product line. Although I don't fault Ruud, he was obviously ill at ease
during his speech. He had to review his notes a couple of times, and
struggled with some words. He even acknoledged his discomfort in the
presentation. However, Ruud did speak about his history related to the
Commodore brand, how he got into Commodore, movied to PCs, and then
returned to CBM in 1993. He also spoke of the Commodore community,
those enthusiasts that have kept the brand alive all these years with
new software, new hardware, and information. Various products were
mentioned, such as the Final Cartridge and IDE64. Ruud finished by
trying to comfort current enthusiasts about the Commodore direction.
Ruud's slight stumbles during the presentation are obviously forgivable
given that he is not a presenter, English is not his primary language,
and he appeared to have some jitters. In the end, it was very nice to
see a fellow enthusiast on the "screen".
Following Ruud's presentation, the audience was treated to an overly
long pause accompanied by some 80's rock remix music. I think the idea
was to push the "entertainment" theme and acknowledge the "retro" idea
that became evident later. Personally, I felt the pause did neither.
It gave me a sense that the presenters were not expecting Ruud to finish
then and they were unprepared to move to the next topic.
Thankfully, Jan took the stage again by mid-song and introduced
Commodore Sales Director Gerben Romijn. Gerben presented some slides
about the future direction of Commodore. Gerben noted that the
Commodore brand has 80% recognition in Holland and elsewhere, and that
they want to capitalize on that recognition to become a global player in
the entertainment sector. Gerben noted that Commodore's mission is now
to bring "digital fun" to the consumer and focus on legal distribution
of entertainment media content.
One way Commodore plans to pull this off is to partner with other
companies with various core competencies. Of note was Ironstone
partners, who will concentrate on legal game distribution, and
Yeahronimo, who looks like the music/video distribution partner.
Another way to capitalize on the Commodore brand is to merchandise the
name. Along that way, Commodore now offer branded DVD-R, CD-R, etc.,
and Gerben hinted at t-shirts, probably along the lines of the slanted
C= logo shirts some wore that day (which I thought cheapened the
presentation, and I am glad Ruud wore a suit).
Gerben then introduced a new line of Commodore hardware. All items took
familiar Commodore hardware names and tweaked them, like the fpet, a USB
memory drive. As well, he showed the mpet, which is an USB memory drive
with audio playback capabilities, and the evic (backwards e) which is a
handheld media player with a 20GB hard drive and a small screen.
However, none of the products seemed genuinely revolutionary, which
should not be surprising since he referred to them in the presentation
as "me-too" products. I was surprised Commodore would make such a
reference, since the term is used in a dismissive tone in the US.
Darren Melborne from Ironstone Partners came to the stage and gave some
historical background both of Ironstone and the Commodore. Darren noted
that their contribution to CommodoreWorld will be a game catalog,
emulators, and the already mentioend Direct2TV hardware offering.
Darren did state that the unit would be available in Q4 2004. Darren
concluded his presention with a teaser for "New C64 Hardware?".
Another too-long music pause followed, after which Jan reappeared on
stage and introduced Rene from Yeahronimo. Rene stated that Yeahronimo
would provide .99euro music downloads, with .50euro/track as part of
"bundles". Yeahronimo will carry both well-known and local/regional acts.
Jan once again took the stage and re-introduced Gerben concerning
Commodore future direction. Gerben talked about a wireless
entertainment center (HDTV LCD screen, on screen display, etc.) and then
showed it to Jan and the attendees.
The presentation concluded with Jan officially opening the
"commodoreworld" web site, although the site's content had been changed
about midway through the presentation.
Obviously, seeing Tulip do something with the Commodore name is
interesting, and there is good business sense in targetting the
entertainment sector. However, I have reservations that the brand name
will secure device sales in such a crowded market (At the time the CBM
machines arrived, there was little competition, and when competition
arrived, CBM was able to use their amortized production costs to reduce
prices on additional units so as to squeeze many companies out of the
space. This time, as Commodore has acknowledged, they enter the market
as a "me-too" producer, and others have the drop on them concerning time).
I got the impression that Tulip has turned a couple of low cost device
reference designs into products, and licensed the name to these
"partners" as a way to build a brand identity without incurring a large
cash/time outlay. The product offerings do share some commonality
(games are entertainment content, emulators are virtual "entertainment
devices"), but the synergy seems strained. I'm not overly impressed
with the hardware devices, but many of us will probably buy one just
because it is useful and carries the familiar "chicken-lips" logo. The
Yeahronimo offering seems superfluous from my US vantagepoint, but it
does seem targeted to the European community, where local bands and such
are more of an influence. As such, that offering might be more
well-received in Europe.
For the Commodore 8-bit enthusiast, it appears attention should be
fcused on Ironstone Partners, with the Direct to TV unit, emulators,
games, and teases for future products that cater to this space. In
spite of the fact that most, if not all, of the Epyx games that
Ironstone is offering on the web site are available for free online
(though not necessarily legally), I am happy to see them available for
purchase. As time has progressed, keeping a C64/128 fed with games and
other SW has often forced the enthusiast to compromise their ethics.
This gives those folks an option to legallt buy the games they so enjoy.
I also think the available of older games and SW should reflect well
on newer commercial offerings (raise their visibility a bit, as in "A
better version of Game X). Of the company representatives, I was most
impressed with Darren, who at least appeared to understand what
underlines the Commodore community and what lines should be respected as
Ironstone determines new product offerings.
Overall, the presentation seemed amateurish, from the initial entrance
ala "Late Night with David Letterman" to the somewhat gaudy montage and
the too-loud 80's music. The wireless entertainment center seemed a big
accomplishment, but little time was spent on it, and the remote viewer
didn't receieve enough information to understand why it is so
revolutionary (if it is). As I stated previously, Ruud was honest and
he shined as a result, whatever faults the video may show. Jan and
Gerben (that might be his last name, not sure) could have rehearsed
their lines a couple more times (Such is understandable for Ruud, but
these guys are professionals). Rene and Darren did better, although
Darren's slideshow also had that amateurish quality (The slide with JR
Ewing and Joan Collins -two US TV personalities from the '80's- was
particularly egregious). I know the computer was popular during a time
of gaudiness and excess, but I'm not sure I'd connect the two at a time
when people look back on some of that excess with disdain.
As to the products, I'm not sure I see the point of using an old name
like the PET with a letter in front to describe a completely different
product, but I suppose the device characteristics are different enough
that it's acceptable. I just think fpet will cause US consumers to
think of cuddly animal toys (NeoPET), or some dog care product, and will
suffer considerably if the unit malfunctions (as in f*&^%ing-pet). eVIC
would appear to have the same naming issue now as that which caused the
original VIC to be renamed the VC20 in some parts of the world (VIC
sounding a lot like FICK, which can be construed as a curse word in
German, as I recall). evic will undoubtedly be slurred as "evict",
which means "to throw out or forcibly remove" in English. As well, PET
was an acronym, as was VIC. fpet doesn't seem to fit. evic makes some
sense as an "electronic video interface controller", but overall, I
think the names seem strained. I suppose I may warm up to them over
time, but it's going to be hard to get this comunity to think of a PET
as anything but a large heavy computer. Which brings up a final point.
For all of the love the community may have for these legacy machines,
they have bad connotations as well. PET is universally known as being
heavy and limited (color wise). VIC was a cheap entry level computer.
That in itself is not bad, but it's rather like the Ford Escort of
computers, as in "You buy one as a starter computer, but then you
typically move to bigger things as you can afford them". The web site
is now operational, so you can see the product offerings and decide for
yourself.
To end on a positive note, I am happy to see the commnity get a bit of
acknowledgement and support from the new owners of the brand, even
though such actions have root in financial reasons. I suspect the
community will take the useful pieces (D2TV unit, games for sale) and
will simply ignore any products which generally fall too far afield.
Let's hope the new owners don't repeat some of the past Commodore sins.
For many Commodore systems seemed to attain popularity in spite of
Commodore's marketing group and the lack of good support from the
vendor. All eyes will be on the new Commodore as they try to move their
ideas from theory to implementation.
MagerValp
JB> David Wood and Per Olofsson captured the stream to disk.
JB> Hopefully, one of them will provide a link at some point.
I've tried, and failed, to convert it into something more usable.
Nothing I have will open and convert the asf into an avi (that I could
then edit and transcode). The raw 240 MB asf can be found here though:
http://www.cling.gu.se/~cl3polof/yeahronimo.asf
It plays fine in Windows Media Player 9, but not Media Player Classic.
I haven't tried VLC or any other players. VirtualDub 1.3c can't open
it, two or three asf converters/repair utils I've tried failed. I
don't have a linux box, so maybe someone has more luck with transcode.
--
___ . . . . . + . . o
_|___|_ + . + . + . Per Olofsson, arkadspelare
o-o . . . o + Mage...@cling.gu.se
- + + . http://www.cling.gu.se/~cl3polof/
Cameron Kaiser
>I've tried, and failed, to convert it into something more usable.
>Nothing I have will open and convert the asf into an avi (that I could
>then edit and transcode). The raw 240 MB asf can be found here though:
[...]
I'm not having much luck in Mac WiMP either. I'll try messing with it
locally.
--
Cameron Kaiser * cka...@floodgap.com * posting with a Commodore 128
personal page: http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/
** Computer Workshops: games, productivity software and more for C64/128! **
** http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/cwi/ **
Rick Balkins
provide you with a copy.
After I compress the living daylights out of it. (using a lossless
compression preferably)
"MagerValp" <Mage...@cling.gu.se> wrote in message
news:p14ekod...@panini.cling.gu.se...
Peter Karlsson
> It would be very nice to hear a review straight from him here on
> comp.sys.cbm in the future.
His post about the event to cbm-hackers is archived at
http://www.softwolves.pp.se/misc/arkiv/cbm-hackers/9/9477.html
--
\\// Peter - http://www.softwolves.pp.se/
I do not read or respond to mail with HTML attachments.
Robert Bernardo
> [Ruud Baltissen's] post about the event to cbm-hackers is archived at
> http://www.softwolves.pp.se/misc/arkiv/cbm-hackers/9/9477.html
Thanks! It was a very good, informative read.
Truly,
Rick Balkins
>
> JB> David Wood and Per Olofsson captured the stream to disk.
> JB> Hopefully, one of them will provide a link at some point.
>
> I've tried, and failed, to convert it into something more usable.
> Nothing I have will open and convert the asf into an avi (that I could
> then edit and transcode). The raw 240 MB asf can be found here though:
>
> http://www.cling.gu.se/~cl3polof/yeahronimo.asf
>
> It plays fine in Windows Media Player 9, but not Media Player Classic.
> I haven't tried VLC or any other players. VirtualDub 1.3c can't open
> it, two or three asf converters/repair utils I've tried failed. I
> don't have a linux box, so maybe someone has more luck with transcode.
It appears that there is some level of corruption. It only plays for SO
long. About 8 minutes and then crashes out. Can you check this out ????
I will be talking with Tulip about a copy be sent.
Mike Paull
There is nothing wrong with the copy, it plays just fine on my PC. I
suspect your copy was corrupted during download.
Mike
Rick Balkins
"Mike Paull" <mik...@removethis.ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:5c28d0dhr24ep4et5...@4ax.com...
> There is nothing wrong with the copy, it plays just fine on my PC. I
> suspect your copy was corrupted during download.
Excuse me - can you .zip your file because obviously it stops downloading
after 26.5 Megabytes. It is obvious that something is wrong with the file. I
have DLed other files. I have tried this already multiple times. There is a
problem with the file. Unless you EVER managed to DL all 230 Megabytes from
MV. If you DLed it from MV - did you ????
The file is likely "incomplete". If it can be sent via CD-ROM - I'll go with
it. The site has some sort of limiter of how much to download. The file is
either corrupt or his site has some sort of limit. Trust me - when you
ACTUALLY play it - don't just wait the first so 10 seconds. It loops after 8
minutes. This is because I have "repeat" on in settings of the Media Player
but I don't download it through Media-Player. I dl it via a file download.
There is some sort of problem with this. I would compensate MV for the cost
of the CD and postal service if he likes. If he has PayPal - I can do that.
I don't want to send out because there is some road-block of mail being sent
out from the US. I sent out a letter before and if fail to get out NEVER
return or arrived at destination. Another governmental roadblock. So I will
not go that route. Government blocks international communication via mail
apparently. Those F*CKS !!!!
Peter Karlsson
> It appears that there is some level of corruption. It only plays for SO
> long. About 8 minutes and then crashes out. Can you check this out ????
Downloaded and played fine here (on a Linux box with mplayer). The file is
241399608 bytes, make sure you got all of it. If you only get parts of it,
try downloading it with some other software than your browser, Wget worked
fine for me.
Jim Brain
> "Mike Paull" <mik...@removethis.ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> news:5c28d0dhr24ep4et5...@4ax.com...
>
>
>>There is nothing wrong with the copy, it plays just fine on my PC. I
>>suspect your copy was corrupted during download.
>
>
> Excuse me - can you .zip your file because obviously it stops downloading
> after 26.5 Megabytes. It is obvious that something is wrong with the file.
How can it be "obvious" that there is something wrong with the file,
when folks have downloaded it fine?
Seems like the only thing "obvious" is that you need to find another way
to dload large files. As has been noted, wget works fine.
IE is NOT a downloading tool.
Clockmeister
Extremely unlikely as you would bring forth your most interesting products
in a product launch to generate interest and hype instead of the boredom
this launch would have instigated.
> I think they'd be better off launching a line of Commodore-branded
> PC's and bundling emulation software and somes games for free. If they
> think they're going to rebuild Commodore as a global brand by selling
> usb memory sticks, mp3 players, and 20-year old Epyx software, they've
> got to be kidding themselves.
It's a desperate attempt to milk the name for what it's worth.
> Anyway, this announcement didn't seem significant and largely ignored
> by the world press. None of the major media outlets even mentioned it
> (so far) and it didn't even appear on Slashdot. ;)
>
Why would they, products like those announce already exist.
Move on, nothing to see here...
Rick Balkins
> How can it be "obvious" that there is something wrong with the file,
> when folks have downloaded it fine?
>
> Seems like the only thing "obvious" is that you need to find another way
> to dload large files. As has been noted, wget works fine.
>
> IE is NOT a downloading tool.
>
> Jim
Jim, I have DLed 300 MBytes before and larger files like 1 GByte files
before.
Clockmeister
>
> > "Mike Paull" <mik...@removethis.ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:5c28d0dhr24ep4et5...@4ax.com...
> >
> >
> >>There is nothing wrong with the copy, it plays just fine on my PC. I
> >>suspect your copy was corrupted during download.
> >
> >
> > Excuse me - can you .zip your file because obviously it stops
downloading
> > after 26.5 Megabytes. It is obvious that something is wrong with the
file.
>
> How can it be "obvious" that there is something wrong with the file,
> when folks have downloaded it fine?
>
> Seems like the only thing "obvious" is that you need to find another way
> to dload large files. As has been noted, wget works fine.
>
> IE is NOT a downloading tool.
>
I tried to download it with the same result... network error. Seems the
server hosting is cracked the shits and dropped the connection.
A download client with resume should allow the download to complete I'd
imagine.
Is it worth the download, I'm approaching my monthly quota!?
Rick Balkins
"Clockmeister" <no-...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:40d5...@duster.adelaide.on.net...
>
> I tried to download it with the same result... network error. Seems the
> server hosting is cracked the shits and dropped the connection.
>
> A download client with resume should allow the download to complete I'd
> imagine.
>
> Is it worth the download, I'm approaching my monthly quota!?
Got a full working copy but I might send you a copy of it on CD-ROM
Need mail costs.
and address info.
Mike Paull
<rickbalki...@nospam.wavestarinteractive.com> wrote:
>
>"Mike Paull" <mik...@removethis.ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
>news:5c28d0dhr24ep4et5...@4ax.com...
>
>> There is nothing wrong with the copy, it plays just fine on my PC. I
>> suspect your copy was corrupted during download.
>
>Excuse me - can you .zip your file because obviously it stops downloading
>after 26.5 Megabytes. It is obvious that something is wrong with the file. I
>have DLed other files. I have tried this already multiple times. There is a
>problem with the file. Unless you EVER managed to DL all 230 Megabytes from
>MV. If you DLed it from MV - did you ????
Rick, as I said before there is NOTHING wrong with my copy of the file. It
begins with a rather long winded introduction from our host and around 30
minutes later ( i didnt time it but thats how long it felt like ) the same
host ends the conference.
The file was downloaded from
http://www.cling.gu.se/~cl3polof/yeahronimo.asf
and is 215,428kb in size.
>The file is likely "incomplete". If it can be sent via CD-ROM - I'll go with
>it. The site has some sort of limiter of how much to download. The file is
No limit when I downloaded it.
>either corrupt or his site has some sort of limit. Trust me - when you
>ACTUALLY play it - don't just wait the first so 10 seconds. It loops after 8
>minutes. This is because I have "repeat" on in settings of the Media Player
>but I don't download it through Media-Player. I dl it via a file download.
I don't trust you, I watched the *WHOLE* thing from start to finish. I saw
the host talk about the musicians that played in the room, I saw a guy from
Tulip talk about products and "cabinets", I saw Rudd talk about the
Commodore community,i saw Darren Melbourne go on about the current and new
products, I heard the stupid "breaks" where they played 80s music, I saw
the Tulip guy come back on stage for more talk and then an explanation of
why "cabinet" is an unusual word for our Norwegian friends. FInally there
was a demonstration of a box connected to a TV, this was performed by
people on a couch with the audience having to turn around to see what was
going on. Then finally out host closed out the conference, and the screen
went dark, and then the file stopped. Happy ?????????
>There is some sort of problem with this. I would compensate MV for the cost
>of the CD and postal service if he likes. If he has PayPal - I can do that.
>I don't want to send out because there is some road-block of mail being sent
>out from the US. I sent out a letter before and if fail to get out NEVER
>return or arrived at destination. Another governmental roadblock. So I will
>not go that route. Government blocks international communication via mail
>apparently. Those F*CKS !!!!
No comment.
Mike
Clockmeister
"Rick Balkins" <rickbalki...@nospam.wavestarinteractive.com> wrote in
message news:10damus...@corp.supernews.com...
I'll try downloading it first. Should anyone in Australia be interested in a
copy of it on CD (for the price of a self addressed stamped envelope sent to
my address with two blank CD's included to cover my time) let me know here
and I'll contact you.
Assuming there are no copyright issues involved ofcourse ;-)
Ruud Baltissen
> Ruud Baltisen (45) was introduced
I felt very nervous during the speach and although others assured me
that I did well, I didn't feel so. May I have your comment please?
> Direct 2 TV (based on original hardware with 1 or 2 tweaks)
I only can say you this: I know who is behind the development (and
Robert Bernardo as well). Some techinfo I can spread:
- 256 colours
- more then the normal resolutions
- two SID's
- Registers etc. will become available for programmers
- solderpads available for the techies amongst us so they can attach
the missing expansionport, userport and PS/2-keyboard.
Disclaimer: that is what they told me, it sounded very honest and
convincing and personally I believe these specs. But if things turn
out different, I'm sorry.
> Others who watched, please feel free to correct errors
Having been there, I must say it was very accurate!
Hallo allemaal,
OK, now the important part. I have spoken with these guys for several
hours and it would go to far to tell about all details. But one thing
is clear: they want the old community as their friend. But they also
have to run a business. This simply means they will protect that what
is legally theirs.
The first consequence is that they will take actions against sites
offering games/utilities etc. they (or partners) legally own.
(personal note: don't like it, but understandable)
Sites offering schematics and other tecnical info have nothing to fear
as this info has been spread by C= itself for years.
The most difficult discussions were about the system-ROMs. The the
problem is that the top is made out of people just like you and me and
people who want to make money. The first group understands us very
well and doesn't mind. The second group thinks they could loose money
and thus minds. To make a long story short: no action will be taken
for the time coming. And, for several reasons, I am very positive that
no action will be taken in the future as well.
One personal remark: these people sounded truthfully in their
statements regarding the Commodore community. So I only can ask: give
them a chance. Time will tell if they only want to make money at all
costs or really want to let the name Commodore be a synonym for "fun
for everybody".
--
___
/ __|__
/ / |_/ Groetjes, Ruud
\ \__|_\
\___| http://Ruud.C64.org
Ruud Baltissen
> then an explanation of why "cabinet" is an unusual word for our
> Norwegian friends.
Norwegian ???????? DUTCH !!!!
The Dutch word "kabinet" has two meanings, the first one is about the
same as the English word "cabinet" but hardly used as so. The second
one means the goverment, particulary the group of ministers.
> Happy ?????????
AFAIK the whole thing must be available on DVD. I'll will ask Tulip.
Oh, BTW, Rick Balkins is unknown to Tulip. "Wildstar" did ring a bell
indeed but I'll save you the comment.
Joe Forster/STA
[ASF move at MagerValp's site]
> It plays fine in Windows Media Player 9, but not Media Player Classic.
> I haven't tried VLC or any other players. VirtualDub 1.3c can't open
> it, two or three asf converters/repair utils I've tried failed. I
> don't have a linux box, so maybe someone has more luck with transcode.
I can play this movie in Windows Media Player 6.4 just like other movies
encoded with Windows Media Video version 9. For the necessary codecs, see
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/format/codecdownload.aspx
and grab and install both "Codecs Installation Package for Windows Media
Player 6.4" and "Codecs Installation Package for Windows Media Video 9
VCM". (BSPlayer, my favorite, does not run under Windows NT 4.0 so I
couldn't test it here at work...)
Still, somethine is wrong with the movie as it seems to have no length:
according to its header, it consists of zero frames! That's why VirtualDub
gives an error upon opening it and neither plays nor converts it. By the
way, special releases of VirtualDub 1.3c and 1.4, which can open ASF
files, are available at http://www.divxcrawler.com/software.htm . (ASF
support has been removed upon Micro$oft's request, see the history in
later releases. Congratulations to M$!)
Not sure if this above helps anyone with anything but I thought I'd
mention it... :-) I'll try to hack the ASF and see if it can then be
fed into VirtualDub and converted to DivX/XviD... Bye,
Joe
--
KOVÁCS Balázs alias Joe Forster/STA s...@c64.org; http://sta.c64.org
Orsolya u. 5. IV/12., 1204 Budapest, Hungary; +36-1-285-3881, 6-10PM CET
(SpamAssassin protection! No HTML E-mails! No uncompressed attachments!)
Rick Balkins
Hehehe - well actually if you asked Harro Tillema. Then yeah.
I don't talk to the Sales Rep. My communication has been in direct
communication with the brand manager. Of course - they might not give any
specific words.
"Ruud Baltissen" <Ruud.Ba...@abp.nl> wrote in message
news:8b0a868e.04062...@posting.google.com...
> Hallo Mike,
> Norwegian ???????? DUTCH !!!!
>
> The Dutch word "kabinet" has two meanings, the first one is about the
> same as the English word "cabinet" but hardly used as so. The second
> one means the goverment, particulary the group of ministers.
>
Robert Bernardo
Some tech info I can spread:
> - 256 colours
> - more then the normal resolutions
> - two SID's
> - Registers etc. will become available for programmers
> - solderpads available for the techies amongst us so they can attach
> the missing expansionport, userport and PS/2-keyboard.
Nice!
> The first group understands us very
> well and doesn't mind. The second group thinks they could lose money
> and thus minds.
Ah, different factions within the organization!
> To make a long story short: no action will be taken
> for the time coming. And, for several reasons, I am very positive that
> no action will be taken in the future as well.
I feel the same.
> One personal remark: these people sounded truthfully in their
> statements regarding the Commodore community. So I only can ask: give
> them a chance.
O.K., I'm giving them a chance.
Joe Forster/STA
A short guide on how to convert the buggy ASF movie under Windows:
1. Video Fixer: http://www.achensoft.com/products/videofixer/index.htm
First, fix the ASF file. Make sure to run the program _twice_: once
on the original file (fixing the damaged frames) and once on the
first result (creating a frame index table).
2. VirtualDub 1.4c: http://www.divxcrawler.com/software.htm
Convert the ASF file into AVI format. I chose DivX 4 Fast-Motion,
with an average bitrate of 400 kbit/sec. Let it copy the original
audio track. If a WMA-encoded (read: Windows-specific) audio track is
fine for you, you may stop here. You can download all kinds of codec
packs (DivX/XviD and AC3/MP3 preferred) from http://www.doom9.org .
3. VirtualDubMod 1.5.10.1: http://www.doom9.org
Demux the video and audio track of the AVI.
4. WinAMP 5.03: http://www.winamp.com
Convert the WMA-encoded audio track into WAV format.
5. WinAMP LAME encoder plugin 1.6.1: http://mukoli.free.fr/out_lame/
Convert the WAV-encoded audio track into MP3 format. I chose VBR,
minimum 32, maximum 64 kbit/sec. No, transcoding WMA directly into
MP3 format won't work, dunno why!
6. Nandub 1.0 RC2: http://ndub.sourceforge.net
Mux the video and MP3-encoded audio back into an AVI.
This above assumes that you know how to use the softwares. Please, read
their documentations, don't ask me! All was done in a well-maintained
Windows 98 Gold Edition installation so nothing very special is needed.
The result is a 222 Meg AVI file, in DivX+MP3 format that should be
supported by most platforms (definitely more than ASF!).
Unfortunately, the audio gets delayed by about half a second by the end
of the movie. As I'm not an expert on video conversion, I don't know
what to do about this...
As sta.c64.org is not really prepared to serve large files, I'm looking
forward to volunteers to offer the AVI on their sites. Please, drop me
an E-mail. If possible, give me login details to an FTP server that
supports passive mode.
If anyone is interested, I can create a patch that converts the original
ASF movie into the fixed one, substituting step #1 of the guide above.
(Dunno how big it will be though...) For creating and applying patches,
I use xdelta: http://sourceforge.net/projects/xdelta . Bye,
Joe
MagerValp
M> I've tried, and failed, to convert it into something more usable.
M> Nothing I have will open and convert the asf into an avi (that I
M> could then edit and transcode). The raw 240 MB asf can be found
M> here though:
M> http://www.cling.gu.se/~cl3polof/yeahronimo.asf
M> It plays fine in Windows Media Player 9, but not Media Player
M> Classic. I haven't tried VLC or any other players. VirtualDub 1.3c
M> can't open it, two or three asf converters/repair utils I've tried
M> failed. I don't have a linux box, so maybe someone has more luck
M> with transcode.
After massaging it with mencoder, I've managed to produce an AVI. I
haven't had time to recompress it to a small file though.
MagerValp
C> I tried to download it with the same result... network error. Seems
C> the server hosting is cracked the shits and dropped the connection.
It's a four CPU Sun Enterprise E450 with an uptime of about 462 days,
with a 100 Mb connection via a 1 Gb pipe to the Swedish internet
backbone. Basically, it's about as stable as servers get, with a
redundant connection. Lots of people have managed to download the file
just fine, so I suggest you investigate problems in your end before
making assumptions about the server.
Rick Balkins
> >>>>> "C" == Clockmeister <no-...@nowhere.com> writes:
>
> C> I tried to download it with the same result... network error. Seems
> C> the server hosting is cracked the shits and dropped the connection.
>
> It's a four CPU Sun Enterprise E450 with an uptime of about 462 days,
> with a 100 Mb connection via a 1 Gb pipe to the Swedish internet
> backbone. Basically, it's about as stable as servers get, with a
> redundant connection. Lots of people have managed to download the file
> just fine, so I suggest you investigate problems in your end before
> making assumptions about the server.
I can confirm this is the primary case. I may say it has to do with IE
download protocol.
I am not entirely sure it is the server or just something in the ASF file
that causes an EOF (End of File) signal that IE recognizes and ends. Like
the signal IE recognizes for download complete. Don't know exactly but it
seems that Microsoft's best OS MS-DOS/DOS comes to save the day. Ok - it is
the Command Line but still it is by principle MS-DOS.
Jeff Ledger
> after 26.5 Megabytes.
I was having the same problems with several different browsers
(IE, Opera, and Mozilla) -- I grabbed "wget" for windows from
http://xoomer.virgilio.it/hherold/
and It just passed the 85MB mark and still downloading....
It stopped once at 5%, wget resumed the transfer and kept going.
Oldbitcollector
Rick Balkins
"Jeff Ledger" <jle...@cyberstreet.com> wrote in message
news:706f6242.04062...@posting.google.com...
Mike Paull
>> Ruud Baltisen (45) was introduced
>
>I felt very nervous during the speach and although others assured me
>that I did well, I didn't feel so. May I have your comment please?
I thought your presentation was very good! Each thing you spoke about
didn't go too long and you were to the point, I understood everything.
Actually your speech was the most interesting I thought :)
Mike
Clockmeister
> >>>>> "C" == Clockmeister <no-...@nowhere.com> writes:
>
> C> I tried to download it with the same result... network error. Seems
> C> the server hosting is cracked the shits and dropped the connection.
>
> It's a four CPU Sun Enterprise E450 with an uptime of about 462 days,
> with a 100 Mb connection via a 1 Gb pipe to the Swedish internet
> backbone. Basically, it's about as stable as servers get, with a
> redundant connection. Lots of people have managed to download the file
> just fine, so I suggest you investigate problems in your end before
> making assumptions about the server.
Using a download client with resume works fine, but just using IE the
network connection is dropped at around the 27mb mark, with the error
message relating to a network error. I've downloaded many files using IE
much larger then 27mb, so you tell me where the problem lies?
Is it related the the asf file itself?
MagerValp
C> Using a download client with resume works fine, but just using IE
C> the network connection is dropped at around the 27mb mark, with the
C> error message relating to a network error. I've downloaded many
C> files using IE much larger then 27mb, so you tell me where the
C> problem lies?
No idea. It could be anywhere between here and wherever you are.
C> Is it related the the asf file itself?
The web server has no knowledge of the contents of the file.
Rick Balkins
> >>>>> "C" == Clockmeister <no-...@nowhere.com> writes:
>
> C> Using a download client with resume works fine, but just using IE
> C> the network connection is dropped at around the 27mb mark, with the
> C> error message relating to a network error. I've downloaded many
> C> files using IE much larger then 27mb, so you tell me where the
> C> problem lies?
>
> No idea. It could be anywhere between here and wherever you are.
>
> C> Is it related the the asf file itself?
>
> The web server has no knowledge of the contents of the file.
Nope - I don't think it is anything of your fault but I think it lies in the
file itself.
IE's download protocols recognizes a sequence of bits in a row as some sort
of "file complete" or EOF or something. If the .ASF file in question have
the right sequence of bits at a given spot - it might be possible to cut the
download short. I give th condition - something within the file and not
something of MagerValp's fault that I understand.
The reason that I doubt that it is somewhere between the web server and him
is that Clockmeister is getting the same issue that I got. He lives in a
totally different area than I. Now to Clockmeister - I suggest using Wget.
It is an MS-DOS/Command Line tool.
Once you DL it. Install it in a directory 'wget' at root level. (Example
C:\wget\ )
Then you can do cd\wget at the c:\ prompt.
I suggest to type cd\
just to make sure you start from root. Then type cd\wget
Then type wget 'followed by a space and the URL path'.
I'm confident that you know MS-DOS.
I find it easier to not have it embedded deep. Otherwise you type all day.
Good luck.
Clockmeister
>
> "MagerValp" <Mage...@cling.gu.se> wrote in message
> news:p143c4k...@panini.cling.gu.se...
> > >>>>> "C" == Clockmeister <no-...@nowhere.com> writes:
> >
> > C> Using a download client with resume works fine, but just using IE
> > C> the network connection is dropped at around the 27mb mark, with the
> > C> error message relating to a network error. I've downloaded many
> > C> files using IE much larger then 27mb, so you tell me where the
> > C> problem lies?
> >
> > No idea. It could be anywhere between here and wherever you are.
> >
> > C> Is it related the the asf file itself?
> >
> > The web server has no knowledge of the contents of the file.
>
> Nope - I don't think it is anything of your fault but I think it lies in
the
> file itself.
>
> IE's download protocols recognizes a sequence of bits in a row as some
sort
> of "file complete" or EOF or something. If the .ASF file in question have
> the right sequence of bits at a given spot - it might be possible to cut
the
> download short. I give th condition - something within the file and not
> something of MagerValp's fault that I understand.
I said it was a network error that I have never gotten before, so clearly
the error is with the file itself or the location of the file. I wasn't
passing judgement on the server, it was just an observation from this end.
> The reason that I doubt that it is somewhere between the web server and
him
> is that Clockmeister is getting the same issue that I got. He lives in a
> totally different area than I. Now to Clockmeister - I suggest using Wget.
> It is an MS-DOS/Command Line tool.
I use flashget (for Windows) but that wasn't installed on the other PC.
> Once you DL it. Install it in a directory 'wget' at root level. (Example
> C:\wget\ )
> Then you can do cd\wget at the c:\ prompt.
>
> I suggest to type cd\
> just to make sure you start from root. Then type cd\wget
> Then type wget 'followed by a space and the URL path'.
>
> I'm confident that you know MS-DOS.
Yes, very well thank you though I prefer XP these days ;-)
> I find it easier to not have it embedded deep. Otherwise you type all day.
I avoid the issue all together these days, point and click ;-)
Rick Balkins
> I said it was a network error that I have never gotten before, so clearly
> the error is with the file itself or the location of the file. I wasn't
> passing judgement on the server, it was just an observation from this end.
<<< snip >>>
> Yes, very well thank you though I prefer XP these days ;-)
I used WGET in Windows XP in Command Line but I refer to MS-DOS because of
the command set.
WGET ran fine. When I referred to MS-DOS, so you can think in the command
set not the "point & click". I too prefer to work in the GUI because of the
typing. (Yes my statement I said somewhere about MS-DOS as Microsoft's best
OS is in terms of reliability. As for ease of use - any GUI would be
better.)
> > I find it easier to not have it embedded deep. Otherwise you type all
day.
>
> I avoid the issue all together these days, point and click ;-)
Yes - I used WGET from a suggestion and I find MS-DOS saves the day. Ok the
Command Line. But still.
Either way - if you manage to get it, great. Take care.
Joe Forster/STA
With the approval of the server admins, I put online a converted
copy of yeahronimo.asf, in AVI format, encoded with the DivX 3
Fast-Motion and MPEG-1 Layer 3 codecs. I'm not an expert in movie
conversion but I hope the result is of good quality. Download the
movie from:
http://sta.c64.org/Yeahronimo/yeahronimo.avi
Please, note that if the bandwidth of the server is eaten up too
much by downloads of this file, the admins might delete it. Have
fun,
Jonathan Herr
news:8e5ecfb7.0407...@posting.google.com...
Uh joe? I still can't access sta.c64.org... What gives?
--
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Spiro Trikaliotis
["Followup-To:" comp.sys.cbm set.]
Jonathan Herr <draco...@wi.rr.com> schrieb:
> Uh joe? I still can't access sta.c64.org... What gives?
See <8e5ecfb7.04071...@posting.google.com>, or, for people
who like web interfaces:
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=%3C8e5ecfb7.0407...@posting.google.com%3E
HTH,
Spiro.
--
Spiro R. Trikaliotis
http://www.trikaliotis.net/