Q's on building tower A1200 system from scratch - help!
Blake Patterson
Ok. Some background REAL quick. I bought the first Amiga 1000 sold in
Virginia in autumn of '85. I had an A2000 for several years starting in
'88. I had an A1200 for a year ('93) then sadly moved to PC. (My whole
list is here: http://www.blakespot.com/list.html ... be afraid!)
I got excited by UAE recently and bought a factory new A2000 about 1
month ago. Orig CPU, 700MB SCSI, added ROM 3.1 & 1.3 via switcher, 2mb
FAST (4MB more on the way). Ok. I've been downloading demos like a
madman as I loved demos on the Amiga. (And the PC.) I've come to
realize there was quite a demo scene in the AGA world during the 90's
(or so it seems). And, I've gotten all excited at the prospect of
bringing an Amiga up to crazy specs with scenes like this:
http://www.gregdonner.org/workbench/images/wb_35_1.jpg
...highcolor, large WB, lots of net apps, etc. (I recently revived a
NeXTStation, to give you an idea of what gets my interest.) Anyway --
it seems that PERHAPS I'd do better to get an A1200 (which I can still
get new -- and new is good, if possible, IMHO) and expand IT rather than
expanding the A2000... So --- I've got some questions. And there's a
few. So -- any help possible -- thanks in advance!!
-- Given that I really dig 'demos' and would like to explore those in
the AGA world (it _appears_ there were lots of impressive AGA demos done
throughout the 90's) *AND* that I want to expand out the Amiga for
hi-color, fast, large WB, etc., does it seem a better idea to get an
A1200 and expand it rather than furthering this A2000 w/ CPU boards,
video boards, etc. (tho the 1200'd need those too)??
-- How much faster would, say, a 25MHz 040-based A1200 be vs. an A2000
w/ the same CPU, as far as bus speed, etc.?? Let's say in either case
I'd be using Picasso96 w/ some sort of gfx board to run the WB.
-- It seems I'd want something like the 'PowerTower' to expand the
A1200. It seems it, and other components (including the new Amiga
1200's I speak of) can be found here:
...in it it seems there's several options. The Mediator PCI vs. Ziv-IV
for instance. What's a better way to go?? I'd likely want to add to
the A1200 a CPU accelerator, video board, ethernet, and SCSI. That is
about it, as far as what I think I'd really want/need.
-- Do either of the above options rule out the use of an accelerator
such as the Blizzard 1260/50MHz or the Blizzard 210MHz 603E w/040-33MHz
(both of which I see at softhut)?? It seems both of these slot
subsystems attach (of course) via the A1200's bus connector. (Do they
offer passthru for accelerator or something?)
-- Of those two accelerators, for instance, which is superior (and do
both have SCSI, that I can boot from?)?? What's, on the whole better, a
060 or the 040/PPC combo?? I assume the PPC will only help with WB3.5
itself and apps written "native" for it. AGA demos would not benefit,
and fall over to 040. WB-wise, using apps from it, is the 060 much
slower than a 603e PPC?? Are there enough PPC apps for the Amiga to
justify it??
-- Is it possible to find new multiscan monitors that scan down to 15kHz?
-- Anything else I should know of?
Thanks. I am serious about this intent and think it would be a pretty
fun experience, expanding the Amiga. I've enjoyed what I've done w/
this A2000 so far. I hope for many and varied responses.
Thanks in advance!
bp
--
--
"Heisenberg may have slept here."
Stephan Neise
<bl...@blakespot.com> wrote:
>-- Given that I really dig 'demos' and would like to explore those in
>the AGA world (it _appears_ there were lots of impressive AGA demos done
>throughout the 90's) *AND* that I want to expand out the Amiga for
>hi-color, fast, large WB, etc., does it seem a better idea to get an
>A1200 and expand it rather than furthering this A2000 w/ CPU boards,
>video boards, etc. (tho the 1200'd need those too)??
If you decide to use the 2000, you will be stuck with Z-II forever,
not to mention the difficulties of having to deal with aging hardware
and leaking clock batteries. But then again, the 2000 is a cheap
platform for serious applications. RTG cards and accelerators are
relatively cheap, you won't ever have any problems with the Z-II slots
(albeit slow) and there is lots of room in the case.
RTG for the 1200 however, is a somewhat tricky thing and there are
basically three solutions.
1. Z-II and Z-III expansion boards. Although most cards should work,
there is no 100% compatibilty with real Commodore Z-II/Z-III machines.
Z-III is expensive and requires an A4000 cpu board. Z-II will give you
the same slow performance like the 2000.
2. A BlizzardPPC/BlizzardVision combination. This is a rather pricey
solution, but will give you the best RTG/CPU performance currently
available for the 1200, IMO.
3. A Mediator PCI Busboard. The only gfx-card drivers available right
now is for a S3 Virge card (4MB).
>-- It seems I'd want something like the 'PowerTower' to expand the
>A1200. It seems it, and other components (including the new Amiga
>1200's I speak of) can be found here:
>
>http://www.softhut.com/cgi-bin/test/Web_store/web_store.cgi?page=catalog/hardware/amiga/a1200.html&cart_id=1629013_25092
Personally, I would not buy a new 1200 but would rather try to get one
or two used 1200 motherboards. They are becoming really cheap now
(+/- $50).
The "new" 1200's have been manufactured 5 years ago and are not
actually all that new.
If you decide to put your 1200 into a tower case, you're stuck with
the original casing (for which you paid for).
As for the keyboard, most towerkits come with some kind of a
PC-Keyboard connector. I would always prefer a PC keyboard because
even the cheapest are better than the original 1200 keyboard.
>...in it it seems there's several options. The Mediator PCI vs. Ziv-IV
>for instance. What's a better way to go?? I'd likely want to add to
>the A1200 a CPU accelerator, video board, ethernet, and SCSI. That is
>about it, as far as what I think I'd really want/need.
The Mediator could have real potential. But the only driver available
right now is a 4mb S3 Virge AFAIK. Elbox is working on drivers for
Voodoo-3, network cards and soundcards. They have also announced a
G3/G4 accellerator for the mediator. Nobody knows, however, how the
G3/G4 will be implemented and what kind of software solution it will
be using.
>-- Do either of the above options rule out the use of an accelerator
>such as the Blizzard 1260/50MHz or the Blizzard 210MHz 603E w/040-33MHz
>(both of which I see at softhut)?? It seems both of these slot
>subsystems attach (of course) via the A1200's bus connector. (Do they
>offer passthru for accelerator or something?)
Yes, the Mediator and most other Bus expansions offer a passthrough
for accelerator/RAM boards.
Recent discussions, however, suggest that the Mediator could
potentially cause software related problems with the BlizzardPPC dual
CPU board, due to limitations of the 8 mb address window used by the
Mediator. This does not apply to 68k only processor cards. Don't ask
me about the details though, this is rather technical.
>-- Of those two accelerators, for instance, which is superior (and do
>both have SCSI, that I can boot from?)?? What's, on the whole better, a
>060 or the 040/PPC combo?? I assume the PPC will only help with WB3.5
>itself and apps written "native" for it. AGA demos would not benefit,
>and fall over to 040. WB-wise, using apps from it, is the 060 much
>slower than a 603e PPC?? Are there enough PPC apps for the Amiga to
>justify it??
Yes, the PPC is by a multitude faster than the 060. I guess your
buying decision depends on how intensive you are going to use PPC
stuff. There is a wide variaty of tools and applications for the PPC,
from everyday stuff like PPC datatypes, to specialized applications
like PPC image processing software. I think H&P has a list of PPC
programs on their website.
If you're going for PPC, don't go for a low cost version, because you
will most likely regret it in the end. Most Amiga apps (including the
OS) still run on 68K, so get a BlizzardPPC with 060. Also try to get
one with SCSI on board. AFAIK DCE did not make any boards with SCSI
yet, so your only option will be to find a board from phase-5.
As for AGA demos, best solution would always be to disable the
processor card to watch them.
>-- Is it possible to find new multiscan monitors that scan down to 15kHz?
The "newest" Monitor I know of, would be Amiga's own M1764. As the
name suggests, this is a 17" monitor with a frequency range of 15-64
KHz. Finding one could be rather cumbersome though.
If you have enough space on your desk, get an old 15KHz monitor.
Personally though, I'd recommend a scandoubler.
>-- Anything else I should know of?
The AT 1200's use a different floppy drive, so some old games/demos
won't boot from it.
Hope that helps.
Marcel DeVoe
> -- How much faster would, say, a 25MHz 040-based A1200 be vs. an A2000
> w/ the same CPU, as far as bus speed, etc.?? Let's say in either case
> I'd be using Picasso96 w/ some sort of gfx board to run the WB.
Depends on the graphics board I think mostly, the CPU executions will
be the same, and on what bus you put the graphics card on, ie., what it
was made for.
> ...in it it seems there's several options. The Mediator PCI vs. Ziv-IV
> for instance. What's a better way to go?? I'd likely want to add to
> the A1200 a CPU accelerator, video board, ethernet, and SCSI. That is
> about it, as far as what I think I'd really want/need.
The SCSI you'd get via the accellerator as most have them built in now.
> -- Do either of the above options rule out the use of an accelerator
> such as the Blizzard 1260/50MHz or the Blizzard 210MHz 603E w/040-33MHz
> (both of which I see at softhut)?? It seems both of these slot
> subsystems attach (of course) via the A1200's bus connector. (Do they
> offer passthru for accelerator or something?)
One thing I have noticed, most people who got an 040/PPC usually have
traded it in for an 060/PPC. The 060 is 3 times faster than the 040.
And the odd thing is, some old programs that wouldn't work on my 040 A4000
started working when I got an 060 with the new libraries (although a
couple that did work before now don't, but is the lesser of the two
evils).
> -- Of those two accelerators, for instance, which is superior (and do
> both have SCSI, that I can boot from?)?? What's, on the whole better, a
> 060 or the 040/PPC combo?? I assume the PPC will only help with WB3.5
> itself and apps written "native" for it. AGA demos would not benefit,
> and fall over to 040. WB-wise, using apps from it, is the 060 much
> slower than a 603e PPC?? Are there enough PPC apps for the Amiga to
> justify it??
Some have said not too long ago before not so, but is getting better
today.
> -- Is it possible to find new multiscan monitors that scan down to 15kHz?
Not new, used and small. You wouldn't want that with a graphics card. But
with an external scandoubler/flicker fixer, you wouldn't need to.
> -- Anything else I should know of?
> Thanks. I am serious about this intent and think it would be a pretty
> fun experience, expanding the Amiga. I've enjoyed what I've done w/
> this A2000 so far. I hope for many and varied responses.
> Thanks in advance!
Problem with all this is, it *will* require quite an outlay of cash.
Personally, if as you originally stated you'd just like to watch some AGA
demos, then you'd be better off just getting that plain vanilla A1200
for that and use your PC for higher end stuff.
OTOH, if you really like the way the AmigaOS works with workbench without
the latency problems, etc. of the PC, and if you don't mind spending the
cash, go for it.
It's a matter of priorities. ;)
--
Marcel J. DeVoe - mde...@shore.net - Team *AMIGA*
A4091scsi CV64 96 megs CDRW M1764-17" Catweasel FUSION/Emplant
A4000/060 CyberStorm MKII overclocked 66mhz - see "How to Overclock!"
and "DIY A4000 Tower for $45" @ http://www.shore.net/~mdevoe