Amiga has 8 MB Chip-RAM !

Roland Mainz

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Mar 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/7/97

to

Hi !

----

The Amiga 4000 computers have a jumper on the motherboard, labelled "2MB/8MB Chip".

But inserting an 8MB SIMM and switching the jumper to 8MB does not work.

How can I get the 8 MB (maybe add it manually using exec.library/AddmemList ?) ?

----

Bye,
Roland

Benjamin Hutchings

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Mar 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/7/97

to

In article <zIJqgMD...@gisburn.w-specht.rhein-ruhr.de>,
Roland Mainz <GIS...@W-SPECHT.rhein-ruhr.de> wrote:
[...]

>The Amiga 4000 computers have a jumper on the motherboard, labelled
>"2MB/8MB Chip".

Indeed. But as Dave Haynie says (approximately), "Don't touch an
undocumented jumper - even if it's labelled 'Sex and Free Beer'."
There is no magic 8M Chip feature. Alice can't address that much RAM.
That feature was going to be in some other version of the chipset, I
think.

--
Ben Hutchings,|finger m95...@booth42.ecs.ox.ac.uk|mail benjamin.hutchings@
compsci&mathmo|lynx http://users.ox.ac.uk/~worc0223|worcester.oxford.ac.uk
The program is absolutely right; therefore, the computer must be wrong.

Gi

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Mar 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/8/97

to

Roland Mainz wrote in <zIJqgMD...@gisburn.w-specht.rhein-ruhr.de> on 07-
Mar-97 15:45:52 :
>Hi !

>----

>The Amiga 4000 computers have a jumper on the motherboard, labelled "2MB/8MB
>Chip".

>But inserting an 8MB SIMM and switching the jumper to 8MB does not work.

>How can I get the 8 MB (maybe add it manually using exec.library/AddmemList
>?) ?

You'd need to do a lot of hacking to get it to work, the 1200 and 4000 where
going to have an 8 meg chip board available but CBM wanted to cut costs so I
think the idea was scrapped.

___________________________________
| _ __ |
| G. O. Jones *HaRD SCaN*_- -_- -_|#
|___________________________________|#
| |#
| http://www.gj-cent.demon.co.uk |#
| |#
|-----------------------------------|#
| A3000UX, CV64, 060, 24 Meg, Zip |#
| Delfina DSP, Korg Wavestation SR |#
| Korg Prophecy, Yamaha DB50XG |#
|___________________________________|#
#####################################

Roland Mainz

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Mar 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/8/97

to

Hi !

----

TH> > The Amiga 4000 computers have a jumper on the motherboard, labelled "2MB/8MB Chip".
TH> >
TH> > But inserting an 8MB SIMM and switching the jumper to 8MB does not work.
TH> >
TH> > How can I get the 8 MB (maybe add it manually using exec.library/AddmemList ?) ?
TH>
TH> I guess you've never heard a well-known guy say that you shouldn't
TH> touch an undocumented jumper even if it says "free sex and beer"?
TH>
TH> It doesn't work.

Why soes it not work ??

----

Bye,
Roland

Trond Werner Hansen

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Mar 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/8/97

to

On Sat, 8 Mar 1997, Roland Mainz wrote:

> TH> It doesn't work.
>
> Why soes it not work ??

AFAIK the AA chipset cannot even address more than 2 MB, but I'm no
hardware guy.. :)

Greetings,

Trond Werner Hansen, slave at Norwegian University of Science and Technology.
EMail: tro...@stud.ntnu.no | WWW: www.stud.ntnu.no/~tronhan | IRC: Tronan
Developing WorkbenchNG and Playboy3.0 | Amiga - There's a lady in every story -

Oliver B. Warzecha

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Mar 9, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/9/97

to

Roland Mainz <GIS...@W-SPECHT.rhein-ruhr.de> wrote in <zIJqgMD...@gisburn.w-specht.rhein-ruhr.de>:

> The Amiga 4000 computers have a jumper on the motherboard, labelled "2MB/8MB Chip".

> But inserting an 8MB SIMM and switching the jumper to 8MB does not work.

> How can I get the 8 MB (maybe add it manually using exec.library/AddmemList ?) ?

Free sex and beer for everyone!

SCNR. ;)
--
## OBW 1.0r ##
Year 97 has arrived. Debugging in progress...

Keith Blakemore-Noble

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Mar 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/11/97

to

On or around Sat, 08 Mar 97, Roland Mainz is alledged to have muttered
something along the lines of -

RM> TH> > The Amiga 4000 computers have a jumper on the motherboard, labelled "2MB/8MB Chip".
RM> TH>
RM> TH> It doesn't work.
RM>
RM> Why soes it not work ??

Originally, it was planned to have to ability for teh chipset to access 2M
or 8M of Chip. however, this never made it to the final silicon (my guess
is it was removed for reasons of cost).

So there you have it :)

I guess they left the jumper on the m/b because -

(a) it was already there and why waste more money redesigning the m/b
(b) it always allowed for a potential upgrade to an 8M version.

Hope this helps,

Keith.

--
Http://www.personal.u-net.com/~amiga Team AMIGA

When in Rome do as the Snamor do.
- Dave Lister (Backwards)

Porter Woodward

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Mar 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/12/97

to

Keith Blakemore-Noble (Keith.Blak...@innovision-group.com) wrote:
: On or around Sat, 08 Mar 97, Roland Mainz is alledged to have muttered

: something along the lines of -
:
: RM> TH> > The Amiga 4000 computers have a jumper on the motherboard, labelled "2MB/8MB Chip".
: RM> TH>
: RM> TH> It doesn't work.
: RM>
: RM> Why soes it not work ??
:
: Originally, it was planned to have to ability for teh chipset to access 2M
: or 8M of Chip. however, this never made it to the final silicon (my guess
: is it was removed for reasons of cost).

hey - would it be possible to "bank" chip mem in some manner using
this "feature". In that fashion, it might be possible to allow each screen
to have it's own 2MB area?

Sure - it'd be some pretty damn serious hacking, but...

- Porter Woodward

--
//\ (wood...@tiac.net | wood...@acad.wit.edu)
// \ http://www.tiac.net/users/woodward/
\\ //----\ Out of sorts? Heck, I'm out of most algorithms.
\X/ \MiGA - Make up your own mind. "Spoon!"

Marcus Alanen

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Mar 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/12/97

to

On 12 Mar 1997, Porter Woodward wrote:

> : Originally, it was planned to have to ability for teh chipset to access 2M
> : or 8M of Chip. however, this never made it to the final silicon (my guess
> : is it was removed for reasons of cost).
> hey - would it be possible to "bank" chip mem in some manner using
> this "feature". In that fashion, it might be possible to allow each screen
> to have it's own 2MB area?

It's not just the screen, it's all the other gfx and sfx in a
game or application. Wouldn't probably work for two programs
using the chipset directly.

Marcus Alanen
maal...@abo.fi

Keith Blakemore-Noble

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Mar 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/12/97

to

On or around Wed, 12 Mar 97, Porter Woodward is alledged to have

muttered something along the lines of -

PW> : Originally, it was planned to have to ability for teh chipset to access 2M
PW> : or 8M of Chip. however, this never made it to the final silicon (my guess
PW> : is it was removed for reasons of cost).
PW>
PW> hey - would it be possible to "bank" chip mem in some manner using
PW> this "feature". In that fashion, it might be possible to allow each screen
PW> to have it's own 2MB area?

IMHO, this would be (virtually) impossible to achieve. The 8M of Chip RAM
would all need to be refreshed, so this is an additional function that would
be required by the bank-switcher.

In addition, how would you control the switching? The aoftware would have
to indicate which "page" was required, etc.

All in all, I personally believe it would be all but impossible to achieve.
Sorry!

TTFN,
Keith.

--
Http://www.personal.u-net.com/~amiga Team AMIGA

Space Corps Directive No. 349.
Any officer found to have been slaughtered and replaced by a shapechanging
chameleonic lifeform shall forfeit all pension rights.

Rask Ingemann Lambertsen

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Mar 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/12/97

to

Den 07-Mar-97 21:45:52 skrev Roland Mainz følgende om "Amiga has 8 MB Chip-RAM
!":
> Hi !

> ----

> The Amiga 4000 computers have a jumper on the motherboard, labelled "2MB/8MB
> Chip".

> But inserting an 8MB SIMM and switching the jumper to 8MB does not work.

> How can I get the 8 MB (maybe add it manually using exec.library/AddmemList
> ?) ?

> ----

Oh no, not again... :-(

Regards,

Finn Nielsen

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Mar 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/12/97

to

> From: GIS...@W-SPECHT.rhein-ruhr.de (Roland Mainz)

>
> Hi !
>
> ----
>
> The Amiga 4000 computers have a jumper on the motherboard, labelled "2MB/8MB Chip".
>
> But inserting an 8MB SIMM and switching the jumper to 8MB does not work.
>
> How can I get the 8 MB (maybe add it manually using exec.library/AddmemList ?) ?
>
> ----
>

> Bye,
> Roland
>

You can't get 8MB CHIP RAM. The A4000 motherboard was supposed to support AAA which
would be able to address 8 MB CHIP RAM, but AAA never made it, and AGA can only
address 2 MB CHIP RAM.

Finn

--
.--------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Finn Nielsen <zzn...@diku.dk> | I reluctantly admit to owning a PC,|
| http://www.diku.dk/students/zznyyd/ | but my REAL computer is my Amiga. |
| PGP-key available upon request | A1200, MC68EC020 28 MHz, 6 MB RAM |
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------'

Evert de Vos

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Mar 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/13/97

to

Marcus Alanen wrote:
:
: On 12 Mar 1997, Porter Woodward wrote:
:
: > : Originally, it was planned to have to ability for teh chipset to
access 2M
: > : or 8M of Chip. however, this never made it to the final silicon
(my guess
: > : is it was removed for reasons of cost).
: > hey - would it be possible to "bank" chip mem in some manner
using
: > this "feature". In that fashion, it might be possible to allow each
screen
: > to have it's own 2MB area?
:
: It's not just the screen, it's all the other gfx and sfx in a

: game or application. Wouldn't probably work for two programs
: using the chipset directly.

If you really want to have a lot of chipmem free, get a gfx card.
I have a CV64/3D and when the WB is started I have over 2.000.000
bytes chipmem free (about 75kb used), so almost all the chipmem
can be used for sound, while the gfx will be in fastmem which you
can expand whatever you like.

GreetinX /Evert

Alan L.M. Buxey

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Mar 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/13/97

to

On Sat, 08 Mar 1997 17:53:45 +0100 ,Roland Mainz posted the following:

: TH> It doesn't work.

: Why soes it not work ??

it was put in in readiness for AAA which would have addressed up to 8MB
of CHIPRAM...... if you think about current gfx cards, 8MB is still a
hell of a lot! ;-)

Alan

Ralph Babel

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Mar 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/14/97

to

Roland Mainz wrote:

> The Amiga 4000 computers have a jumper on the motherboard,
> labelled "2MB/8MB Chip". But inserting an 8MB SIMM and
> switching the jumper to 8MB does not work. How can I get

> the 8 MB [...] ?

Replace the original 8374 Alice chip (location U211) by the
8-MB Alice revision, replace the original Chip-RAM SIMM (1
MB or 2 MB) in U261 by an 8-MB SIMM, and change jumper J213
from 1-2 to 2-3. (Note: 8-MB Alice chips are scarce these
days.)

Roland Mainz

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Mar 17, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/17/97

to

Hi !

----
RB> > The Amiga 4000 computers have a jumper on the motherboard,
RB> > labelled "2MB/8MB Chip". But inserting an 8MB SIMM and
RB> > switching the jumper to 8MB does not work. How can I get
RB> > the 8 MB [...] ?
RB>
RB> Replace the original 8374 Alice chip (location U211) by the
RB> 8-MB Alice revision, replace the original Chip-RAM SIMM (1
RB> MB or 2 MB) in U261 by an 8-MB SIMM, and change jumper J213
RB> from 1-2 to 2-3. (Note: 8-MB Alice chips are scarce these
RB> days.)

Does the OS recognize the 8 MB chip ?

----

Bye,
Roland

Christian Stieber

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Mar 17, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/17/97

to

Roland Mainz (GIS...@W-SPECHT.rhein-ruhr.de) wrote:

> RB> Replace the original 8374 Alice chip (location U211) by the
> RB> 8-MB Alice revision, replace the original Chip-RAM SIMM (1
> RB> MB or 2 MB) in U261 by an 8-MB SIMM, and change jumper J213
> RB> from 1-2 to 2-3. (Note: 8-MB Alice chips are scarce these
> RB> days.)

> Does the OS recognize the 8 MB chip ?

Yes. Works fine for me. I never run out of chipmem these days, so
I was even able to deinstall the VirtualChipMem program I was using
to overcome the previous 2MB limitation.

Christian

--
Christian Stieber sti...@informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Fortune cookie of the day:
You can't leave a shop through the back door: there ain't one!

Jakob Eriksson

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Mar 17, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/17/97

to Christian Stieber

On 17 Mar 1997, Christian Stieber wrote:

> Roland Mainz (GIS...@W-SPECHT.rhein-ruhr.de) wrote:

> > RB> Replace the original 8374 Alice chip (location U211) by the
> > RB> 8-MB Alice revision, replace the original Chip-RAM SIMM (1
> > RB> MB or 2 MB) in U261 by an 8-MB SIMM, and change jumper J213
> > RB> from 1-2 to 2-3. (Note: 8-MB Alice chips are scarce these
> > RB> days.)

> > Does the OS recognize the 8 MB chip ?

> Yes. Works fine for me. I never run out of chipmem these days, so
> I was even able to deinstall the VirtualChipMem program I was using
> to overcome the previous 2MB limitation.

> Christian

Are you kidding!
Are you telling me you are sitting there with an Amiga with 8 megabytes of
chip RAM?!

*Please* tell me you made a joke!

/Jakob

Marc Forrester

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Mar 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/18/97

to

Jakob Eriksson wrote:
> > Yes. Works fine for me. I never run out of chipmem these days,
> > so I was even able to deinstall the VirtualChipMem program I was
> > using to overcome the previous 2MB limitation.
>

> Are you kidding!
> Are you telling me you are sitting there with an Amiga with
> 8 megabytes of chip RAM?!
>
> *Please* tell me you made a joke!

And if you did, what's this Virtual Chip Ram patch?
That sounds believable, at least.. (If unlikely to
work with an unpleasant proportion of software..)

--
Marc Forrester, via his mum's ISP.

Johan Rönnblom

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Mar 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/18/97

to

Christian Stieber wrote:
> Roland Mainz (GIS...@W-SPECHT.rhein-ruhr.de) wrote:
> > RB> Replace the original 8374 Alice chip (location U211) by the
> > RB> 8-MB Alice revision, replace the original Chip-RAM SIMM (1
> > RB> MB or 2 MB) in U261 by an 8-MB SIMM, and change jumper J213
> > RB> from 1-2 to 2-3. (Note: 8-MB Alice chips are scarce these
> > RB> days.)
> > Does the OS recognize the 8 MB chip ?

> Yes. Works fine for me. I never run out of chipmem these days, so
> I was even able to deinstall the VirtualChipMem program I was using
> to overcome the previous 2MB limitation.

Then there are only two questions:
1. Where can you get an 8mb alice? How much are they?
2. Is it easy to replace the chip, or does it require some extensive
soldering?

/Johan Rönnblom, Team Amiga

teicher@raphael

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Mar 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/18/97

to

Jakob Eriksson (dat9...@idt.mdh.se) wrote:

: > Yes. Works fine for me. I never run out of chipmem these days, so

: > I was even able to deinstall the VirtualChipMem program I was using
: > to overcome the previous 2MB limitation.

: *Please* tell me you made a joke!

Christian never makes jokes. His religion forbids it.

Tom.

Bill Hoggett

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Mar 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/18/97

to

Marc Forrester <s...@mail.zynet.co.uk> wrote:

>Jakob Eriksson wrote:
>> > Yes. Works fine for me. I never run out of chipmem these days,
>> > so I was even able to deinstall the VirtualChipMem program I was
>> > using to overcome the previous 2MB limitation.
>>

>> Are you kidding!
>> Are you telling me you are sitting there with an Amiga with
>> 8 megabytes of chip RAM?!
>>

>> *Please* tell me you made a joke!

>And if you did, what's this Virtual Chip Ram patch?

>That sounds believable, at least.. (If unlikely to
>work with an unpleasant proportion of software..)

Strange that such a useful patch hasn't made it onto Aminet yet.

I hate to mention this folks, but we are coming in towards April
aren't we ?

---
Bill Hoggett (aka BeeJay) <hog...@airtime.co.uk>

IF GOD IS LIFE'S SERVICE PROVIDER WHY HAVEN'T I GOT HIS I.P. NUMBER ?

Gunther Nikl

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Mar 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/18/97

to

Roland Mainz (GIS...@W-SPECHT.rhein-ruhr.de) wrote:

> Hi !

> ----
> RB> > The Amiga 4000 computers have a jumper on the motherboard,
> RB> > labelled "2MB/8MB Chip". But inserting an 8MB SIMM and
> RB> > switching the jumper to 8MB does not work. How can I get
> RB> > the 8 MB [...] ?
> RB>

> RB> Replace the original 8374 Alice chip (location U211) by the
> RB> 8-MB Alice revision, replace the original Chip-RAM SIMM (1
> RB> MB or 2 MB) in U261 by an 8-MB SIMM, and change jumper J213
> RB> from 1-2 to 2-3. (Note: 8-MB Alice chips are scarce these
> RB> days.)

> Does the OS recognize the 8 MB chip ?

Argh! Hey man, when are you going to believe that an 8-MB alice
does not exist?
BTW, do you know who Ralph Babel is? I cannot believe that you
are the guy that wants/rewrites the datatype system.

Gunther

Gunther Nikl

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Mar 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/18/97

to

Christian Stieber (sti...@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE) wrote:
> Roland Mainz (GIS...@W-SPECHT.rhein-ruhr.de) wrote:

> > RB> Replace the original 8374 Alice chip (location U211) by the
> > RB> 8-MB Alice revision, replace the original Chip-RAM SIMM (1
> > RB> MB or 2 MB) in U261 by an 8-MB SIMM, and change jumper J213
> > RB> from 1-2 to 2-3. (Note: 8-MB Alice chips are scarce these
> > RB> days.)

> > Does the OS recognize the 8 MB chip ?

> Yes. Works fine for me. I never run out of chipmem these days, so

> I was even able to deinstall the VirtualChipMem program I was using
> to overcome the previous 2MB limitation.

Christian, you did forget the smiley, didn't you?

Gunther

Christian Stieber

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Mar 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/18/97

to

Gunther Nikl (gn...@informatik.uni-rostock.de) wrote:

> > > Does the OS recognize the 8 MB chip ?

> > Yes. Works fine for me. I never run out of chipmem these days, so
> > I was even able to deinstall the VirtualChipMem program I was using
> > to overcome the previous 2MB limitation.

> Christian, you did forget the smiley, didn't you?

No. A smiley would make it too obvious -:)

Christian

--
Christian Stieber sti...@informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Fortune cookie of the day:

Nymphs are blondes. Are you a gentleman?

Kyzer

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Mar 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/18/97

to

Roland Mainz (GIS...@W-SPECHT.rhein-ruhr.de) wrote:
: Does the OS recognize the 8 MB chip ?

I think it would (I mean, it can recognize 2 or 1mb so why not 8?),
but you can always set MaxLoctMem by hand anyway.

--
******** KYZER ******** Stuart Caie, undergraduate of Aberdeen University
Homepage: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/~u13sac | My opinions aren't those of Aberdeen
Adamant: telnet 130.83.9.19 port 4711 | University or AUCC, thankfully. ****
Email: u13...@abdn.ac.uk ky...@hotmail.com ky...@4u.net | 100% Amiga, always.
BONUS: Present this .sig at Tesco for a 15% discount.

Warren Block

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Mar 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/18/97

to

Johan Rönnblom (JRo...@ba.ssdn.skellefte.se) wrote:

: Then there are only two questions:

: 1. Where can you get an 8mb alice?

They do not exist.

: How much are they?

Either free or infinitely expensive, depending on how you look at it.

: 2. Is it easy to replace the chip, or does it require some extensive
: soldering?

See the answer to #1.

--
-Warren R. Block * Rapid City SD USA

Rikard Lundblad

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Mar 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/19/97

to

Christian Stieber (sti...@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE) wrote:
: Roland Mainz (GIS...@W-SPECHT.rhein-ruhr.de) wrote:

: > RB> Replace the original 8374 Alice chip (location U211) by the
: > RB> 8-MB Alice revision, replace the original Chip-RAM SIMM (1
: > RB> MB or 2 MB) in U261 by an 8-MB SIMM, and change jumper J213
: > RB> from 1-2 to 2-3. (Note: 8-MB Alice chips are scarce these
: > RB> days.)

: > Does the OS recognize the 8 MB chip ?

: Yes. Works fine for me. I never run out of chipmem these days, so

: I was even able to deinstall the VirtualChipMem program I was using
: to overcome the previous 2MB limitation.

Hey, hey, HEY!!

Dont write things like that!
Don't you realize that people actually believe you?

It's hard enough to determine what really is
true of all you can find on the net.

Please tell everybody that you just made a stupid joke!

THERE IS NO 8-MEG ALICE!! DO YOU HEAR ME??!

T H E R E I S __N O__ 8 - M E G A L I C E ! ! ! ! !

(or is there, after all... :-| )
--

Rikard Lundblad
Email to:
____________________________
No Brain /\\\ /\\\ /__/__/rika...@usa.net\__\__\ ///\ ///\ No Pain!
\ /\\\ / /\\\/ /\\\ /\__\__\________________/__/__/\ ///\ \///\ \ ///\ /
\\/ /\\\/ / \/_/ \\\/ / -You must accept,- \ \/// \_\/ \ \///\ \//
\/_/ \/_/ \/_/ -before you can understand.- \_\/ \_\/ \_\/

Roland Mainz

unread,

Mar 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/19/97

to

Hi !

----

GN> > ----
GN> > RB> > The Amiga 4000 computers have a jumper on the motherboard,
GN> > RB> > labelled "2MB/8MB Chip". But inserting an 8MB SIMM and
GN> > RB> > switching the jumper to 8MB does not work. How can I get
GN> > RB> > the 8 MB [...] ?
GN> > RB>
GN> > RB> Replace the original 8374 Alice chip (location U211) by the
GN> > RB> 8-MB Alice revision, replace the original Chip-RAM SIMM (1
GN> > RB> MB or 2 MB) in U261 by an 8-MB SIMM, and change jumper J213
GN> > RB> from 1-2 to 2-3. (Note: 8-MB Alice chips are scarce these
GN> > RB> days.)
GN>
GN> > Does the OS recognize the 8 MB chip ?
GN>
GN> Argh! Hey man, when are you going to believe that an 8-MB alice
GN> does not exist?

Mmh. Now !? :-)

----

GN> BTW, do you know who Ralph Babel is?

The author of the "Amiga Guru Book" and many other things on
Amiga.

----

GN> I cannot believe that you
GN> are the guy that wants/rewrites the datatype system.

Finished and released to betatesters (V45.1) today (19.3.97). If they
don't find a serious bug, the V45.2 will be uploaded to Aminet on
Saturday.

----

Bye,
Roland

Rick Townsend

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Mar 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/20/97

to

On 19-Mar-97 18:20:31, Rikard Lundblad said about Re: Amiga has 8 MB Chip-RAM !:
RL> Christian Stieber (sti...@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE) wrote:
RL>: Roland Mainz (GIS...@W-SPECHT.rhein-ruhr.de) wrote:

RL>: > RB> Replace the original 8374 Alice chip (location U211) by the
RL>: > RB> 8-MB Alice revision, replace the original Chip-RAM SIMM (1
RL>: > RB> MB or 2 MB) in U261 by an 8-MB SIMM, and change jumper J213
RL>: > RB> from 1-2 to 2-3. (Note: 8-MB Alice chips are scarce these
RL>: > RB> days.)

RL>: > Does the OS recognize the 8 MB chip ?

RL>: Yes. Works fine for me. I never run out of chipmem these days, so
RL>: I was even able to deinstall the VirtualChipMem program I was using
RL>: to overcome the previous 2MB limitation.

RL> Hey, hey, HEY!!

RL> Dont write things like that!
RL> Don't you realize that people actually believe you?

What! you mean, like, PC owners?

RL> It's hard enough to determine what really is
RL> true of all you can find on the net.

RL> Please tell everybody that you just made a stupid joke!

RL> THERE IS NO 8-MEG ALICE!! DO YOU HEAR ME??!

RL> T H E R E I S __N O__ 8 - M E G A L I C E ! ! ! ! !

Speak up I can't here you.. :-)

RL> (or is there, after all... :-| )

Its out there...............somewhere NOT.

--
# Rick Townsend ri...@slicks.demon.co.uk #
# Demon Home Page http://www.slicks.demon.co.uk/ #
# A4000 040 40MgHz Warp, Cybervision 64 #
# Plymouth AVG Team AMIGA #
--

Michaelb

unread,

Mar 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/20/97

to

On 18 Mar 1997 11:52:46 GMT, teicher@raphael () wrote:

> Jakob Eriksson (dat9...@idt.mdh.se) wrote:
>
> : > Yes. Works fine for me. I never run out of chipmem these days,
so

> : > I was even able to deinstall the VirtualChipMem program I was
using

> : > to overcome the previous 2MB limitation.
>

> : *Please* tell me you made a joke!
>
> Christian never makes jokes. His religion forbids it

Someone please confirm this. If it's true why doesn't Quikpak stick
this chip on the new A4000Ts and A1200s'.

Personally, I'd be prepared to send my A4000T motehrboard back to
have this modification done, all the way from Japan.

Michael Wilkins
Kyoto, Japan.

HARD:A4kT/060/50Mhz/43MbFast/1Gig FSCSI/RetinaZ3/VLab/MITSUMIx12CDrom
IomegaZIp/Supra33.6 Fax Modem/Panasonic Kx-P5400 PS Laser.
SOFT:WB3.1/PPP/Shapeshifter/Airmail/AtapiPnP/Scala/Pagestream3.1
Dpaint4&5/Termite/GpFax/Photogenics/PPaint/CrossMac/Dopus5.
Parnett-worked to A2000/030/24Mhz/2Chip/16Fast/RetinaZ2

Ralph Babel

unread,

Mar 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/20/97

to

Marc Forrester asked:

> what's this Virtual Chip Ram patch?

It's a program very similar to vmem/VMM: it allows you to
have basically an unlimited amount of Chip RAM. Here is how
it works: everytime the Agnus or Alice chip tries to access
a Chip-memory location that has been marked "invalid" in the
MMU tree (i.e. typically swapped to disk), it will cause the
processor to take an exception ("page fault"), which then
loads the requested Chip-RAM data back from hard disk into
memory, mark the corresponding page "valid", and rerun the
Agnus/Alice bus cycle. As this works at the Agnus/Alice
level, it does not just affect display DMA and the blitter,
but also audio etc., so - for instance - you can have sound
buffers as large as available hard-disk space permits. As a
side effect, large contiguous ranges of Chip RAM can be
allocated even if physical memory is fragmented. (The MMU
basically joins scattered pages.) To minimize flickering and
other display glitches, however, vchipram requires a hard
disk that is sufficiently fast to swap the pages back into
physical Chip RAM for the Amiga's Chip-RAM DMA chip to feed
the display controller chip in time. An ultrawide Zorro-III
SCSI host adapter is recommended, and the SCSI driver should
support scattered I/O (trivial with the NCR/Symbios 53xxx
SCSI series).

I'll upload the program to Aminet in a few days (Tuesday
after next comes to mind).

Kyzer

unread,

Mar 20, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/20/97

to

Christian Stieber (sti...@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE) wrote:
: Roland Mainz (GIS...@W-SPECHT.rhein-ruhr.de) wrote:

: > RB> Replace the original 8374 Alice chip (location U211) by the

: > RB> 8-MB Alice revision, replace the original Chip-RAM SIMM (1

: > RB> MB or 2 MB) in U261 by an 8-MB SIMM, and change jumper J213

: > RB> from 1-2 to 2-3. (Note: 8-MB Alice chips are scarce these

: > RB> days.)

: > Does the OS recognize the 8 MB chip ?

: Yes. Works fine for me. I never run out of chipmem these days, so

: I was even able to deinstall the VirtualChipMem program I was using
: to overcome the previous 2MB limitation.

Yeah, I got rid of VCM and installed FastToChip which takes some of your
Fastmemory and makes it chip memory, so you don't have the 7mb speed limit
and I now have 26Mb of chip memory, and very fast blitting indeed.

Ya dum fux!

--
******** KYZER ******** Stuart Caie, undergraduate of Aberdeen University
Homepage: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/~u13sac | My opinions aren't those of Aberdeen
Adamant: telnet 130.83.9.19 port 4711 | University or AUCC, thankfully. ****
Email: u13...@abdn.ac.uk ky...@hotmail.com ky...@4u.net | 100% Amiga, always.

Amiga makes it, well, not necesarily possible, but a lot of fun trying anyway.

Alan Leslie

unread,

Mar 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/21/97

to

At the risk of spoiling everybody's fun, (and I have enjoyed this thread)
I'd just like to set the record straight.

A4000s do have a jumper marked 2M/8M Chip Ram. This was noted around the
time the A4000 was released and mass excitement ensued. This was scotched
by Dave Haynie, who confirmed that the jumper had made it into the circuit
board design, but that work to support 8M of chip ram had been discontinued
in the standard Commodore management way. His advice on jumpers in general
was along the following lines.

"Don't mess with an undocumented jumper event if it's marked 'sex and free beer'".

I can't confirm or deny the existence of a virtual chip mem utility from
my own knowledge. Maybe I'm too cynical, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting
for it...

Alan Leslie

Marc Forrester

unread,

Mar 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/21/97

to

Kyzer wrote:
> Yeah, I got rid of VCM and installed FastToChip which takes some of
> your Fastmemory and makes it chip memory, so you don't have the 7mb
> speed limit and I now have 26Mb of chip memory, and very fast
> blitting indeed.
>
> Ya dum fux!

:) Yes, but it is surely theoretically possible, with an MMU,
to have some sort of Virtual ChipRAM system, similar to the
Virtual FastRAM systems that page memory contents out to the
Hard Drive until needed on every computer system in the world?
If you can use the HD as memory, surely you can use Fast as
Chip in theory, even if no-one's actually done it yet..

Christian Stieber

unread,

Mar 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/21/97

to

Marc Forrester (s...@mail.zynet.co.uk) wrote:

> :) Yes, but it is surely theoretically possible, with an MMU,
> to have some sort of Virtual ChipRAM system, similar to the

If this is not meant to be joke, then I have to point out that
you are plain wrong.

> Virtual FastRAM systems that page memory contents out to the
> Hard Drive until needed on every computer system in the world?
> If you can use the HD as memory, surely you can use Fast as
> Chip in theory, even if no-one's actually done it yet..

First of all, hardware DMA does not get routed through the MMU.
This affects both the Commodore custom chips and ZorroII/III boards.

Accesses to chip ram made by the customc chip hardware have tight
timing restrictions as well. While it would be technically possible to
make a blitter that can interrupt the CPU if it want's to blit
something that's paged out, it would be impossible to do this for the
display hardware. Whenenver the display hardware wants to display
something that's paged out, it would turn off the video signal until
the data becomes available, which makes it useless, causing terrible
screen flickering (unless you are using some flickerfixer-type thing
that could just go on displaying the stuff that it has
stored). Similar reasoning goes for sound, although interrupting sound
doesn't necessarily make it useless.

Christian

--
Christian Stieber sti...@informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Fortune cookie of the day:

Never swim with a camera: there's nothing to take pictures of.

Marc Forrester

unread,

Mar 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/22/97

to

Christian Stieber wrote:
> First of all, hardware DMA does not get routed through the MMU.
> This affects both the Commodore custom chips and ZorroII/III boards.

Oh, I wasn't considering trying to get a 4M ECS screen by paging
FastRam or anything similarly obviously impractical, but it's not
just DMA that uses ChipRam, is it? There are some programs,
such as picture.datatype 42.x, which request ChipRam via the
CPU, and therefore presumably via the MMU. Might it not be
useful to have the option of limiting DMA ChipRam use to the
first meg, and using FastRam paging to provide virtual CPU
ChipRam for such things as datatype image decoding?

Or would it be quicker to just run UAE, on the whole? :)

Antonio Porcu

unread,

Mar 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/22/97

to

>
> How can I get the 8 MB (maybe add it manually using exec.library/AddmemList ?) ?

No, you simply can't. It's a matter of hardware.

Antonio Porcu
antoni...@galactica.it

Andreas Kleinert

unread,

Mar 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/23/97

to

Ralph Babel (rba...@babylon.pfm-mainz.de) wrote:

: I'll upload the program to Aminet in a few days (Tuesday

: after next comes to mind).

That's wait I waited for: a mention of April 1st

--
ARK

Christian Wasner

unread,

Mar 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/23/97

to

Ralph Babel (rba...@babylon.pfm-mainz.de) wrote about Re: Amiga has 8 MB Chip-RAM !:
> Marc Forrester asked:

>> what's this Virtual Chip Ram patch?

> It's a program very similar to vmem/VMM: it allows you to
> have basically an unlimited amount of Chip RAM. Here is how
> it works: everytime the Agnus or Alice chip tries to access
> a Chip-memory location that has been marked "invalid" in the
> MMU tree (i.e. typically swapped to disk), it will cause the
> processor to take an exception ("page fault"), which then
> loads the requested Chip-RAM data back from hard disk into
> memory, mark the corresponding page "valid", and rerun the
> Agnus/Alice bus cycle. As this works at the Agnus/Alice
> level, it does not just affect display DMA and the blitter,

It surely includes a customchip MMU emulator, doesn't it ?

> I'll upload the program to Aminet in a few days (Tuesday
> after next comes to mind).

I hope it's smaller than 5 KBytes.

Greetings

--
Christian Wasner (CRISI/PHANTASM)
Christia...@hamburg.netsurf.de
Q: How do I get the X11 sources ?
A: Ask a question about the 8 MB Chip RAM jumper

MMW

unread,

Mar 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/23/97

to

> Christian Stieber (sti...@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE) wrote:
>
> THERE IS NO 8-MEG ALICE!! DO YOU HEAR ME??!
>

> T H E R E I S __N O__ 8 - M E G A L I C E ! ! ! ! !
>

Soon as I win the lottery (i.e. never cause i dont play it) I'll
have the time, and i'll post pictures of me breadboarding it...

-------------------------------------/\/\/\/\/\/
m...@mixcom.com
http://www.mixweb.com/mmw

;amiga:utilities/play16/play16 amiga:audio/hellocom.au
failat 21
Resident >NIL: C:Assign PURE
C:SetPatch QUIET
C:Version >NIL:
resident >NIL: c:execute pure
Execute S:Initial-startup

C:MakeDir RAM:T RAM:Clipboards RAM:ENV RAM:ENV/Sys
C:Copy >NIL: ENVARC: RAM:ENV ALL NOREQ

Assign >NIL: T: RAM:T
Assign >NIL: LIBS: SYS:Libs
Assign >NIL: DEVS: SYS:DEVS
Assign >NIL: FONTS: SYS:Fonts
Assign >NIL: L: SYS:L
Assign >NIL: ENV: RAM:ENV
Assign >NIL: CLIPS: RAM:Clipboards
Assign >NIL: REXX: Sys:Rexx
Assign >NIL: PRINTERS: DEVS:Printers
Assign >NIL: KEYMAPS: DEVS:Keymaps
Assign >NIL: LOCALE: SYS:Locale
Assign >NIL: LIBS: SYS:Classes ADD
Assign >NIL: HELP: LOCALE:Help DEFER

BindDrivers
C:Mount DEVS:DOSDrivers/~(#?.info)
;run >NIL: dh1:hardware/dataflyer/c/checkdc zippc:
;run >NIL: dh1:hardware/dataflyer/c/checkdc zipmac:
;run >NIL: dh1:hardware/dataflyer/c/checkdc oldzip:

IF EXISTS DEVS:Monitors
IF EXISTS DEVS:Monitors/VGAOnly
DEVS:Monitors/VGAOnly
EndIF

C:List >NIL: DEVS:Monitors/~(#?.info|VGAOnly) TO T:M LFORMAT "DEVS:Monitors/%s"
Execute T:M
C:Delete >NIL: T:M
EndIF

SetEnv Language "english"
SetEnv Workbench $Workbench
SetEnv Kickstart $Kickstart
UnSet Workbench
UnSet Kickstart

C:AddDataTypes REFRESH QUIET
C:IPrefs

C:ConClip
Sys:system/rexxmast >NIL:

Execute S:Matt-Startup
Execute S:Path-Sequence

IF EXISTS S:User-Startup
Execute S:User-Startup
EndIF

C:LoadWB

Resident Execute REMOVE
Resident Assign REMOVE

EndCLI >NIL:

MMW

unread,

Mar 23, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/23/97

to

> Kyzer wrote:
>
> :) Yes, but it is surely theoretically possible, with an MMU,
> to have some sort of Virtual ChipRAM system, similar to the

> Virtual FastRAM systems that page memory contents out to the
> Hard Drive until needed on every computer system in the world?
> If you can use the HD as memory, surely you can use Fast as
> Chip in theory, even if no-one's actually done it yet..

Well, you could call it ChipRAM but it wouldnt be... the custom
chips wouldn't be able to access it.

-----**--------------------------------+-/X\/X\\X/
//A2000/030/882/50,34M Ram,600M HD,| Matt Widup
// 100M ZIP,1.76M Floppy,33600 baud,| m...@mixcom.com
\X/ 3.1 OS,R/C Joysticks,MFS ]I[ card| http://ww2.mixcom.com/mmw

Gregory David Thomas

unread,

Mar 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/24/97

to

Actually you can (or soon will) be able to get 8MB CHIP RAM for the Amiga
4000. There is a place in Melbourne Australia that is developing this
thing. They have already built it and have it working (though I have not
seen it) and are in the bug fixing stage now.

I'm sure that you will hear all about it when they have finnished.

--
Greg Amiga user since 1988
and
Nootropic (smart drug) enthusiast.

Christian Stieber

unread,

Mar 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/24/97

to

Marc Forrester (s...@mail.zynet.co.uk) wrote:
> Christian Stieber wrote:
> > First of all, hardware DMA does not get routed through the MMU.
> > This affects both the Commodore custom chips and ZorroII/III boards.

> Oh, I wasn't considering trying to get a 4M ECS screen by paging
> FastRam or anything similarly obviously impractical, but it's not
> just DMA that uses ChipRam, is it? There are some programs,
> such as picture.datatype 42.x, which request ChipRam via the
> CPU,

A program that requests ChipRAM usually does sso because it wants
the custom chips to access it. If the custom chips never access that
memory, and the program still requests ChipRAM, the program is buggy.

Christian

--
Christian Stieber sti...@informatik.tu-muenchen.de
Fortune cookie of the day:

Some questions the Sphynx asks just *don't* have any answers.

Marc Forrester

unread,

Mar 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/24/97

to

Christian Stieber wrote:
> A program that requests ChipRAM usually does sso because it wants
> the custom chips to access it. If the custom chips never access that
> memory, and the program still requests ChipRAM, the program is buggy.

Mm, but in some cases it's just for blitting, and this can be patched..
Still. Probably easier to get a CyberGFX system and use picture V43,
on the whole. Although if you have CyberGFX, you probably don't
mind too much about programs using Chip, anyway. Tch.

Greg Tallent

unread,

Mar 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/24/97

to

On 22-Mar-97 16:26:36 Andreas Kleinert gl...@appl2.hrz.uni-siegen.de Said:
>Ralph Babel (rba...@babylon.pfm-mainz.de) wrote:

>: I'll upload the program to Aminet in a few days (Tuesday

>: after next comes to mind).

> That's wait I waited for: a mention of April 1st

Just a coincidence that the day in question happens to be the 1st.

How well does this program run with SoftAGA?

> --
> ARK

I'm not broke, I'm `finacially challenged'.

Virebayre David

unread,

Mar 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/25/97

to

Simple :
get UAE sources, modify the emulator to make agnus access as much memory as
you need, compile, run, and hop.

hahaha...

vi...@easynet.fr

sorry for the bad joke...

Rikard Lundblad

unread,

Mar 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/25/97

to

Ralph Babel (rba...@babylon.pfm-mainz.de) wrote:
: Marc Forrester asked:

: > what's this Virtual Chip Ram patch?

: It's a program very similar to vmem/VMM: it allows you to
: have basically an unlimited amount of Chip RAM. Here is how

: it works ...

Snip! Snap!

: I'll upload the program to Aminet in a few days (Tuesday
: after next comes to mind).

Now, can you really tell me that this isn't a joke? I sounds a little bit
suspect that the MMU could track even what the Agnus does.

Please!

Chris Appleton

unread,

Mar 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/25/97

to

On 17-Mar-97 13:23:16, Roland Mainz said about Re: Amiga has 8 MB Chip-RAM !:
>Hi !

>----

RB>> > The Amiga 4000 computers have a jumper on the motherboard,

RB>> > labelled "2MB/8MB Chip". But inserting an 8MB SIMM and

RB>> > switching the jumper to 8MB does not work. How can I get

RB>> > the 8 MB [...] ?

RB>>

RB>> Replace the original 8374 Alice chip (location U211) by the
RB>> 8-MB Alice revision, replace the original Chip-RAM SIMM (1
RB>> MB or 2 MB) in U261 by an 8-MB SIMM, and change jumper J213
RB>> from 1-2 to 2-3. (Note: 8-MB Alice chips are scarce these
RB>> days.)

>Does the OS recognize the 8 MB chip ?

Yeah.

Hey, have you heard? They're taking the word "Gullible" out of the dicionary.
Apparently sometime around the beginning of April, maybe the first day?

--
Chris Appleton : Amiga: Not dead, just hibernating for a while
ch...@fuchal.demon.co.uk : A1200T/040 10mb/850mb/8xCD Team AMIGA
Consciousness: That annoying gap between naps

Kyzer

unread,

Mar 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/25/97

to

Hurrah, for 'tis said that MMW did write:

: > Kyzer wrote:
: >
: > :) Yes, but it is surely theoretically possible, with an MMU,
: > to have some sort of Virtual ChipRAM system, similar to the
: > Virtual FastRAM systems that page memory contents out to the
: > Hard Drive until needed on every computer system in the world?
: > If you can use the HD as memory, surely you can use Fast as
: > Chip in theory, even if no-one's actually done it yet..

: Well, you could call it ChipRAM but it wouldnt be... the custom
: chips wouldn't be able to access it.

Yes but you'd be allowed a 2Mb 'page' of RAM. Whenever something fell out
of use (eg blitter has stopped, isn't displayed on current copperlist, cpu
doesn't want to access it, etc) it would be safe to page it out.

Johan Zeylon IN/SA/B

unread,

Mar 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/26/97

to

In article k...@info.abdn.ac.uk, junk...@sysa.abdn.ac.uk (Kyzer) writes:
>Hurrah, for 'tis said that MMW did write:
>: > Kyzer wrote:
>: >
>: > :) Yes, but it is surely theoretically possible, with an MMU,
>: > to have some sort of Virtual ChipRAM system, similar to the
>: > Virtual FastRAM systems that page memory contents out to the
>: > Hard Drive until needed on every computer system in the world?
>: > If you can use the HD as memory, surely you can use Fast as
>: > Chip in theory, even if no-one's actually done it yet..
>
>: Well, you could call it ChipRAM but it wouldnt be... the custom
>: chips wouldn't be able to access it.
>
>Yes but you'd be allowed a 2Mb 'page' of RAM. Whenever something fell out
>of use (eg blitter has stopped, isn't displayed on current copperlist, cpu
>doesn't want to access it, etc) it would be safe to page it out.
>

Remember that the custom chips have a direct connection to the chip RAM
and the CPU/MMU has to go trough buffers. This is how the Amiga can do
DMA to/from chip RAM and execute code in fast RAM simultaneously.
As far as i can see it is not possible to use the MMU for chip ram.
And additionally - the MMU genarates a BERR every time there is a page
fault and the custom chips has no way of handling that.

!Custom!___!Chip!___!BUFF!___!MMU!___!Fast!
!chips ! !RAM ! ! ER ! !CPU! !RAM !

Regards
Johan Zeylon

Kyzer

unread,

Mar 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/26/97

to

Johan Zeylon IN/SA/B, while smelling of fish, wrote:
: Remember that the custom chips have a direct connection to the chip RAM

: and the CPU/MMU has to go trough buffers. This is how the Amiga can do
: DMA to/from chip RAM and execute code in fast RAM simultaneously.
: As far as i can see it is not possible to use the MMU for chip ram.
: And additionally - the MMU genarates a BERR every time there is a page
: fault and the custom chips has no way of handling that.

: !Custom!___!Chip!___!BUFF!___!MMU!___!Fast!
: !chips ! !RAM ! ! ER ! !CPU! !RAM !

I think this diagram explains it better...

.------------------------. .-----.
|68040___|MMU|__|Caches|-+---|Fast |
| | |___| |______|-+---|RAM |
`-+---------------+++----' `-----'
| |||
| PING! |||
`-------. |||
| |||
.--+--. .-----. .-----.
|Paula|==|Alice|==|Chip |
| |==| |==|RAM |
`-----' `-----' `-----'
|||||
.-----.
|Lisa |
`-----'

'cept nice things like bus controllers and zorro bus and cias and stuff like
that have been left out.

My main point is that custom chips won't do anything unless the CPU
tells them to. If we can catch all places where CPU writes to
custom chips, we can shunt the appropriate bits of memory into place
and then continue with execution. Slow, yes, but it does allow >2Mb chip
ram, provided it's vagely intelligent.

For example, when the screen is dragged up from the bottom of the display
and let go only half covering the display, suddenly our manager looks up the
copperlist and sees that an area of memory is now covered up and thus can be
swapped out. If the program owning that screen now does some drawing (which
will involve the blitter), the area of memory to be blitted will be moved
back into chip space, and the write to bltXpt will be ignored and the correct
address will be used. If the gfx process does not need the blitter to achieve
it while covered, it can be rendered to fastmem instead.

Blah blah blah.

This sig is under arrest! It has the right to remain silent!

Oliver D Jones

unread,

Mar 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/27/97

to

Does anyone know where I can buy an 8MB Alice? Preferably in the UK?

Oliver.

Mike Redrobe

unread,

Mar 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM3/30/97

to

Hi, Oliver D Jones , on 27-Mar-97 11:53:52 you scribbled....
ODJ> Does anyone know where I can buy an 8MB Alice? Preferably in the UK?

They have VERY limited stocks, they only sell on ONE day a year...

somewhere in the beginning of April I believe...

Mike

--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Redrobe - Mi...@redrobe.demon.co.uk MikeRR on #Amiga
http://www.redrobe.demon.co.uk
---------------------------------------------------------------------------