Response to recent babbel

4 views
Skip to first unread message

Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 12, 2001, 1:55:59 AM8/12/01
to
For those who are under some illusion saying otherwise, Amiga corps
and former Amiga Companies are/were a part of the computer industry.

Some seem to want to believe that the Amiga is somehow disconnected from
the computer industry.

As to what connection other companies have or had to Amiga name holding
companies is pretty much irrelavant to issues I have recently communicated
about.

To say Amiga Tech of Austrialia has no and had no association to Amiga
name holding companies is about as deceptive as Amiga Tech. taking a name
that can be misleading. And this only came up as one example of being
screwed by the computer industry.

I could have as well mentioned the company in canada that charged my
credit card for an A4000 video Toaster system but couldn't seem to manage
to get it out the door of their business after six week of me being
charged for it. Upon canceling the order, going thru the bank of the CC I
used, this company had the arrogance to charge a restocking fee and even
expect to make additional money from a change in exchange rate for a
system they never got out their door. Of course I protested this to the
bank and they agreed that the charge was wrong but that it would cost them
more to pursue it, that they would pay the charge (not me).

Or perhaps I could have also mentioned the next company I attempted to buy
this system from. The company in Califorina, who did indeed get me the
system in three days, but when I discovered the system had problems (a
process that cost me additional money in determining there was in fact a
problem - dealing with the pass the buck shit). So I did the return to fix
deal to only get a system that didn't work but in a different way, etc...
Commodores warranty didn't mean shit at that time because they weren't
there to back it up!

Eventually, I bought another A4000 locally, because I had spent more money
on what I had put into the system then the A4000 cost. The system I bought
locally was done under the agreement that if I couldn't get the other
system to work via the califorina company, the local company would help me
get it fixed. Well I couldn't and they didn't!!!!!!!!

All this Califorina company matter involved three credit cards (Due to
the Canada company tying up the one card I had enough available credit
on.)

Yep, on the second effort to get a working Amiga 4000, not one but three
banks were involved.

I don't remember what I used to buy the third Amiga 4000.

But in all cases I was not given the deal I had agreed upon.

Eventually, probably near the expiration time of the califorina company
problem (via 3 banks) they called me and struck a deal. I agreed to pay
the price that they had payed for the system (the one that didn't work)
It wasn't that I wanted the system but they didn't want it either, being
this large retailer was getting out of dealing with Amigas, and I wasn't
about to just pay them 15% restocking fee to take the system back on about
a 5 grand order (meaing I'd have to send the whole order back to them - not
allowed to keep the video toaster ---- 15% = $750 for nothing but wasted
time and effort, not to mentiomn the back and forth shipping I paid)

Ok so in the biased eyes of Gary, none of these companies has any
association to Amiga (the bias being how could any company associated to
an Amiga name holding company dare lie to a customer? - therefor they must
not be associated to an Amiga name holding company - not even via
association thru distributor agreements....

Oh but wait, at that point in time Commodore was bankrupt, causing the
warranty to be worthless in the first place and triggering the feeding
frenze of lies and deceptions (so much so that even the local company
didn't include a warranty at all)

Oh so how convient this all is. A company can outright cause alot of
problems for the consumer (And my experience is far from being any sort of
exception as there are plenty of other consumers who also experienced hell
as a result of commodore going belly up, not to mention alot of good
companies going out of business)...

.... A company can cause alot of hell for the consumer and not be blamed
because they play the bankrupt game.

Screw all of that shit, that is no excuse!!! A company is a man made
object and just because that object dies doesn't mean the people who
created it do. And it certainly doesn't cause the products, including the
mindset methodologies, to die.

I've got proof of deception in legally acceptable forms, but guess
what?

Amiga Products aren't the only platform for which I have received such
intentional acts of deception.

It's the whole damn industry.

One of the last deceptions I received in a purchase, was being lied to
about the format of the data on the SDK, not to mention the insane
license (buy it before you know what you have to agree to before using
what you bought).

So you see it hasn't stopped, the deceptions.

The ATX power button and the pawns arguing for and supporting that
stupidity, is nothing more than supporting example of industry intent to
abuse the consumer.

Anyone want to claim I said this or that or suggest I ment this or that,
let me say and suggest that without a full context quote, your are
probably spuewing industrial strength Bull Shit. The odds are extreamly
high.

Joe Torre on Moobunny recently supprised me. Although there was a little
bit of error in what he said regarding something I had done back in the
Viscorp days, his overall comment was truthful. What supprised me wasn't
that it was comming from Joe, but that in what he did was present the
exception to what seems to be the ongoing trend others present and even
promote to me and about me (Perhaps even as they do so to anyone else that
doesn't agree with what they want to believe.)

Strange, I'm not really to sure how to respond to Joe's comments. And it
appears others may have the same problem up to now.

Guess it's a sign of the brain washing effects of an industry on the
consumers. It seems to be expected that the consumer has a short term
memory. But those who don't know history are likley to repeat it...
Ahhh..... That does seem to explain alot!

If the industry can't get people to forget the past then apparently there
is effort to distort it. Hmmmm, now why would that be if the industry
really wants to make things better? Or maybe it's really just a question
of who "better" is to benefit.

Bottom line - babeling industrial strenght Bull Shit doesn't help.

---
*3 S.E.A.S - Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC) - VISION OF VISIONS!*
*~ ~ ~ Advancing How we Perceive and Use the Tool of Computers!*
Timothy Rue What's *DONE* in all we do? *AI PK OI IP OP SF IQ ID KE*
Email @ mailto:tim...@mindspring.com >INPUT->(Processing)->OUTPUT>v
Web @ http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/ ^<--------<----9----<--------<

MadGun68

unread,
Aug 12, 2001, 2:16:24 PM8/12/01
to

"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6841.624T13T10...@earthlink.net...
[A tale of several Amiga 4000's - All seemingly broken - SNIP]

> Ok so in the biased eyes of Gary, none of these companies has any
> association to Amiga (the bias being how could any company associated to
> an Amiga name holding company dare lie to a customer? - therefor they must
> not be associated to an Amiga name holding company - not even via
> association thru distributor agreements....

Was CBM bankrupt during the entire purchasing process for those machines?
That is important.

> Oh but wait, at that point in time Commodore was bankrupt, causing the
> warranty to be worthless in the first place and triggering the feeding
> frenze of lies and deceptions (so much so that even the local company
> didn't include a warranty at all)

Duh! There were companies involved with the Amiga because they honestly
loved the machines, and there were others in it only for the buck.

With CBM out of the way, you have companies that are sitting as the dust
settles, with (at the time) expensive machines with no warrenty and no one
to replace machines if defective. After said bankruptcy, if any of the
companies sold one of those high priced machines and it turned out to be
defective, exactly who was around to service the warrenty? No one. With
circumstances such as those, a person would find their ethics put to the
test. Most people don't want to go down with a sinking ship. Right or wrong,
their decisions at that point were not the fault of the ex-CBM.

> Oh so how convient this all is. A company can outright cause alot of
> problems for the consumer (And my experience is far from being any sort of
> exception as there are plenty of other consumers who also experienced hell
> as a result of commodore going belly up, not to mention alot of good
> companies going out of business)...

What company? After the bankruptcy, CBM was no longer a company.. Just
assets waiting to be liquidated.

> .... A company can cause alot of hell for the consumer and not be blamed
> because they play the bankrupt game.

What game? They declared bankruptcy and went out of business. There wasn't a
company left to play any games with the consumer.

> Screw all of that shit, that is no excuse!!! A company is a man made
> object and just because that object dies doesn't mean the people who
> created it do. And it certainly doesn't cause the products, including the
> mindset methodologies, to die.

So you're saying that the marketplace for the Amiga is/was just as strong as
when CBM existed and that the bankruptcy in no way affected the Amiga
computer?

> I've got proof of deception in legally acceptable forms, but guess
> what?

Deception from several companies that you seem to find oh-so-convenient to
blame one company for?

> Amiga Products aren't the only platform for which I have received such
> intentional acts of deception.
>
> It's the whole damn industry.

Two words: Corporate America.

[SNIP]

MG


Troy Parker

unread,
Aug 12, 2001, 2:29:39 PM8/12/01
to

"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6841.624T13T10...@earthlink.net...
> For those who are under some illusion saying otherwise, Amiga corps
> and former Amiga Companies are/were a part of the computer industry.
>
> Some seem to want to believe that the Amiga is somehow disconnected from
> the computer industry.

What are you talking about? references...?

> As to what connection other companies have or had to Amiga name holding
> companies is pretty much irrelavant to issues I have recently communicated
> about.

And your issues are irrelevant to the Amiga.

> To say Amiga Tech of Austrialia has no and had no association to Amiga
> name holding companies is about as deceptive as Amiga Tech. taking a name
> that can be misleading. And this only came up as one example of being
> screwed by the computer industry.

Were you under the assumtion that you were dealing with Amiga inc? If so, I
find that
incredibly naieve, to the point of being humorous.

> I could have as well mentioned the company in canada that charged my
> credit card for an A4000 video Toaster system but couldn't seem to manage
> to get it out the door of their business after six week of me being
> charged for it. Upon canceling the order, going thru the bank of the CC I
> used, this company had the arrogance to charge a restocking fee and even
> expect to make additional money from a change in exchange rate for a
> system they never got out their door. Of course I protested this to the
> bank and they agreed that the charge was wrong but that it would cost them
> more to pursue it, that they would pay the charge (not me).

This company wasn't Amiga, and you didn't get screwed, you were reimbursed.

> Or perhaps I could have also mentioned the next company I attempted to buy
> this system from. The company in Califorina, who did indeed get me the
> system in three days, but when I discovered the system had problems (a
> process that cost me additional money in determining there was in fact a
> problem - dealing with the pass the buck shit). So I did the return to fix
> deal to only get a system that didn't work but in a different way, etc...
> Commodores warranty didn't mean shit at that time because they weren't
> there to back it up!

Was this Amiga you were dealing with?

> Eventually, I bought another A4000 locally, because I had spent more money
> on what I had put into the system then the A4000 cost. The system I bought
> locally was done under the agreement that if I couldn't get the other
> system to work via the califorina company, the local company would help me
> get it fixed. Well I couldn't and they didn't!!!!!!!!

What "agreement?" Did you get it in writing or were you naieve and accepted
a
verbal agreement? Was this Amiga inc?

> All this Califorina company matter involved three credit cards (Due to
> the Canada company tying up the one card I had enough available credit
> on.)

Point?

> Yep, on the second effort to get a working Amiga 4000, not one but three
> banks were involved.

Point?

> I don't remember what I used to buy the third Amiga 4000.
>
> But in all cases I was not given the deal I had agreed upon.
>
> Eventually, probably near the expiration time of the califorina company
> problem (via 3 banks) they called me and struck a deal. I agreed to pay
> the price that they had payed for the system (the one that didn't work)
> It wasn't that I wanted the system but they didn't want it either, being
> this large retailer was getting out of dealing with Amigas, and I wasn't
> about to just pay them 15% restocking fee to take the system back on about
> a 5 grand order (meaing I'd have to send the whole order back to them -
not
> allowed to keep the video toaster ---- 15% = $750 for nothing but wasted
> time and effort, not to mentiomn the back and forth shipping I paid)

You really should check a company out before you blindly give them
thousands of dollars and your credit card number. This company was dumping
its stock! It didn't even want to deal in Amigas any longer!

> Ok so in the biased eyes of Gary, none of these companies has any
> association to Amiga (the bias being how could any company associated to
> an Amiga name holding company dare lie to a customer? - therefor they must
> not be associated to an Amiga name holding company - not even via
> association thru distributor agreements....

Gary works for Amiga inc. These other companies dont, and have no
association.
Do you not understand this? And what do you know of these "distributor
agreements?" Did you ask these companies if they were backed by Amiga inc?

It's not Amiga inc's responsibility that "certain consumers" are throwing
thousands of dollars around at fly-by-night companies that "certain
consumers"
hadn't the forsight to check out. Maybe you'll learn a lesson?

> Oh but wait, at that point in time Commodore was bankrupt, causing the
> warranty to be worthless in the first place and triggering the feeding
> frenze of lies and deceptions (so much so that even the local company
> didn't include a warranty at all)

If you purchased harware you knew had no warranty, that sounds incredibly
naieve.

> Oh so how convient this all is. A company can outright cause alot of
> problems for the consumer (And my experience is far from being any sort of
> exception as there are plenty of other consumers who also experienced hell
> as a result of commodore going belly up, not to mention alot of good
> companies going out of business)...

You're stretching.

> .... A company can cause alot of hell for the consumer and not be blamed
> because they play the bankrupt game.

Your dealings wern't with this company. Why would you blame them?

> Screw all of that shit, that is no excuse!!! A company is a man made
> object and just because that object dies doesn't mean the people who
> created it do. And it certainly doesn't cause the products, including the
> mindset methodologies, to die.

Your feet have left the ground.

> I've got proof of deception in legally acceptable forms, but guess
> what?

Guess what? You wern't dealing with Amiga inc.

Guess what? You dealt with a company that you knew offered no warranty.

> Amiga Products aren't the only platform for which I have received such
> intentional acts of deception.

Imagine that.

> It's the whole damn industry.

Were all out to get you.

> One of the last deceptions I received in a purchase, was being lied to
> about the format of the data on the SDK, not to mention the insane
> license (buy it before you know what you have to agree to before using
> what you bought).

What lie? What were you told? Prove your lie about the format of the data.

> So you see it hasn't stopped, the deceptions.
>
> The ATX power button and the pawns arguing for and supporting that
> stupidity, is nothing more than supporting example of industry intent to
> abuse the consumer.

Actually, the ATX standard is a very good thing. Standards are good.

> Anyone want to claim I said this or that or suggest I ment this or that,
> let me say and suggest that without a full context quote, your are
> probably spuewing industrial strength Bull Shit. The odds are extreamly
> high.

How could you be taken out of context? You never define your context!

> Joe Torre on Moobunny recently supprised me. Although there was a little
> bit of error in what he said regarding something I had done back in the
> Viscorp days, his overall comment was truthful. What supprised me wasn't
> that it was comming from Joe, but that in what he did was present the
> exception to what seems to be the ongoing trend others present and even
> promote to me and about me (Perhaps even as they do so to anyone else that
> doesn't agree with what they want to believe.)
>
> Strange, I'm not really to sure how to respond to Joe's comments. And it
> appears others may have the same problem up to now.
>
> Guess it's a sign of the brain washing effects of an industry on the
> consumers. It seems to be expected that the consumer has a short term
> memory. But those who don't know history are likley to repeat it...
> Ahhh..... That does seem to explain alot!

Your feet have risen very far from the ground.

> If the industry can't get people to forget the past then apparently there
> is effort to distort it. Hmmmm, now why would that be if the industry
> really wants to make things better? Or maybe it's really just a question
> of who "better" is to benefit.

Or this could be explained another way: certain people never learn from
their mistakes and are condemmed to repeat them.

> Bottom line - babeling industrial strenght Bull Shit doesn't help.

Then try a different approach.

-tp


Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 12, 2001, 4:02:23 PM8/12/01
to
On 12-Aug-01 13:16:24 MadGun68 <madg...@qwest.net> wrote:
>"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:6841.624T13T10...@earthlink.net...
>[A tale of several Amiga 4000's - All seemingly broken - SNIP]

>> Ok so in the biased eyes of Gary, none of these companies has any
>> association to Amiga (the bias being how could any company associated to
>> an Amiga name holding company dare lie to a customer? - therefor they must
>> not be associated to an Amiga name holding company - not even via
>> association thru distributor agreements....

>Was CBM bankrupt during the entire purchasing process for those machines?
>That is important.

No!

Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 12, 2001, 4:17:17 PM8/12/01
to
On 12-Aug-01 13:29:39 Troy Parker <TPa...@nopagesspamz.net> wrote:
>"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:6841.624T13T10...@earthlink.net...
>> For those who are under some illusion saying otherwise, Amiga corps
>> and former Amiga Companies are/were a part of the computer industry.
>>
>> Some seem to want to believe that the Amiga is somehow disconnected from
>> the computer industry.

>What are you talking about? references...?

Can't see the forest for the tree two inches in front of you?

Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 12, 2001, 4:24:58 PM8/12/01
to
On 12-Aug-01 13:16:24 MadGun68 <madg...@qwest.net> wrote:
>"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:6841.624T13T10...@earthlink.net...
>[A tale of several Amiga 4000's - All seemingly broken - SNIP]

>> Ok so in the biased eyes of Gary, none of these companies has any
>> association to Amiga (the bias being how could any company associated to
>> an Amiga name holding company dare lie to a customer? - therefor they must
>> not be associated to an Amiga name holding company - not even via
>> association thru distributor agreements....

>Was CBM bankrupt during the entire purchasing process for those machines?
>That is important.

No!

And I might add the following question for you to answer:

Are you that fucking stupid?

MadGun68

unread,
Aug 12, 2001, 7:45:32 PM8/12/01
to

"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1137.624T1289T9...@earthlink.net...

> On 12-Aug-01 13:16:24 MadGun68 <madg...@qwest.net> wrote:
> >"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:6841.624T13T10...@earthlink.net...
> >[A tale of several Amiga 4000's - All seemingly broken - SNIP]
>
> >> Ok so in the biased eyes of Gary, none of these companies has any
> >> association to Amiga (the bias being how could any company associated
to
> >> an Amiga name holding company dare lie to a customer? - therefor they
must
> >> not be associated to an Amiga name holding company - not even via
> >> association thru distributor agreements....
>
> >Was CBM bankrupt during the entire purchasing process for those machines?
> >That is important.
>
> No!
>
> And I might add the following question for you to answer:
>
> Are you that fucking stupid?

Of course not. For one thing, idiot, I DO know how to spell BABBLE. I also
DO know the difference between buying a product from the manufacturer and
buying a product from a DEALER, which you clearly do not.

The Canadian company falls through. You buy one from a company in
California. It doesn't work. You return it. The next unit they send out
doesn't work. Considering those circumstances, what idiot would buy from a
local dealer and not make sure the machine operated properly before taking
it home? Three systems that didn't work properly? Please. Either your IQ is
low enough to keep putting yourself in the same situation over and over
again, you BROKE THEM or it never happened. You should have saved your money
and invested in something a little more your speed.. Like one of those
little machines made by V-tech.

Time to climb back on the roof and shout wolf, troll.

Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 12, 2001, 9:34:23 PM8/12/01
to


Apparently all you believe in is excuses. Like in a bottomless pit of
them.

You really shouldn't assume I'm stupid regardless of how much other want
you to believe such slander/lible or what ever you want to call such
wrongs done towards me. Even better you should have been
able to extract the facts for yourself to begin with, rather than
presenting a lazy excuse to not think for yourself.

So how important is the time line of CBMs bankruptcy to you? Apparently
not much!

Geee, do you think Commodore went bankrupt because they wouldn't make
available whay people like me were trying to buy?

Perhaps there was a reason they had a problem in making such available?

Like not having paid royalities on IP they were using!

dnot lkie ym spelling. And you think you are perfect typest? never heard
of letter transposition? It's a common error on teh internet!!!!

Does your saying I;m a troll make it so? OR can people see for themselves?

Oh wait, that's what's wrong with you.

You can't even get simple facts right. To busy seeing what is not there.

John Burns

unread,
Aug 12, 2001, 11:48:31 PM8/12/01
to
>For those who are under some illusion saying otherwise, Amiga corps
>and former Amiga Companies are/were a part of the computer industry.

>Some seem to want to believe that the Amiga is somehow disconnected from
>the computer industry.

No, but I do believe that you are disconnected from reality.

[SNIP]

>Bottom line - babeling industrial strenght Bull Shit doesn't help.

But you still persist don't you

John

John Burns

unread,
Aug 13, 2001, 12:10:13 AM8/13/01
to

Here we have something which I believe lies as the base of your logic "extracting the
facts" Why not try to look at the facts and evaluate them as a whole rather
than, as you appear to do, extracting those facts which support your argument
and ignoring those which don't, no matter how many,

>So how important is the time line of CBMs bankruptcy to you? Apparently
>not much!

>Geee, do you think Commodore went bankrupt because they wouldn't make
>available whay people like me were trying to buy?

>Perhaps there was a reason they had a problem in making such available?

>Like not having paid royalities on IP they were using!

>dnot lkie ym spelling. And you think you are perfect typest? never heard
>of letter transposition? It's a common error on teh internet!!!!

Now who is looking for excuses? Whilst the average person makes the odd typo
now and again this does not negate the fact that your sentence construction
and general grammar point to your having little grasp of English and given that
this is your primary language it does make one wonder just how intelligent you
are.

(For Conspiracy theorists only)

If letter transposition is such a common error why does it only affect Tim's posts?

Come to think of it wasn't CBM in Dallas standing on a grassy knoll some years ago ;).

Admit it Tim you a total nutjob who sneaks in to use the sanitarium's computer
now and again.

Troy Parker

unread,
Aug 13, 2001, 12:45:28 AM8/13/01
to

"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:910.624T1141T9...@earthlink.net...

> On 12-Aug-01 13:29:39 Troy Parker <TPa...@nopagesspamz.net> wrote:
> >"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:6841.624T13T10...@earthlink.net...
> >> For those who are under some illusion saying otherwise, Amiga corps
> >> and former Amiga Companies are/were a part of the computer industry.
> >>
> >> Some seem to want to believe that the Amiga is somehow disconnected
from
> >> the computer industry.
>
> >What are you talking about? references...?
>
> Can't see the forest for the tree two inches in front of you?

You play this game where you use so many metaphors and verbal abstraction
to describe events, that the abstraction masks reality, and no longer makes
any
sense. Really, no offense here, but you really should try to keep your feet
on the
ground.
You're using metaphor and abstraction as a smokescreen whenever you don't
want
to defend something you've said, you're stonewalling your arguements behind
vagueness
and cloudy musings about your frustration towards situations you haven't
handled well.

Case in point, you read my entire post, and you responded with a cliche'.

Could you be any more vague than that?

--
The above comments are not the opinion of my employer, IBM, although they
should be!

Troy Parker

unread,
Aug 13, 2001, 12:45:29 AM8/13/01
to

"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3313.624T1239T1...@earthlink.net...

Why not? You assumed he was "fucking stupid" for asking a relevant question.
Why can
you label others, yet not take a placed label yourself?

> So how important is the time line of CBMs bankruptcy to you? Apparently
> not much!

On the contrary, it's very important. If they were still around and you
contacted them, things
could have been different. Did you contact them?

> Geee, do you think Commodore went bankrupt because they wouldn't make
> available whay people like me were trying to buy?
>
> Perhaps there was a reason they had a problem in making such available?
>
> Like not having paid royalities on IP they were using!
>
> dnot lkie ym spelling. And you think you are perfect typest? never heard
> of letter transposition? It's a common error on teh internet!!!!
>
> Does your saying I;m a troll make it so? OR can people see for themselves?

I think when you call someone "fucking stupid" it's pretty clear your intent
is to troll,
and I think people can see this for themselves.

> Oh wait, that's what's wrong with you.

I thought his problem was he's "fucking stupid?"

> You can't even get simple facts right. To busy seeing what is not there.

Not true, he was inquiring about your "simple facts" when you flamed him.

--
The above is not the opinion of my employer, IBM, although it should be!

Troy Parker

unread,
Aug 13, 2001, 12:45:29 AM8/13/01
to

"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1137.624T1289T9...@earthlink.net...

> On 12-Aug-01 13:16:24 MadGun68 <madg...@qwest.net> wrote:
> >"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:6841.624T13T10...@earthlink.net...
> >[A tale of several Amiga 4000's - All seemingly broken - SNIP]
>
> >> Ok so in the biased eyes of Gary, none of these companies has any
> >> association to Amiga (the bias being how could any company associated
to
> >> an Amiga name holding company dare lie to a customer? - therefor they
must
> >> not be associated to an Amiga name holding company - not even via
> >> association thru distributor agreements....
>
> >Was CBM bankrupt during the entire purchasing process for those machines?
> >That is important.
>
> No!
>
> And I might add the following question for you to answer:
>
> Are you that fucking stupid?

Seemed like a valid question to me, am I "fucking stupid" too?


Rick Hodger

unread,
Aug 13, 2001, 5:49:11 AM8/13/01
to
"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3313.624T1239T1...@earthlink.net>...

> On 12-Aug-01 18:45:32 MadGun68 <madg...@qwest.net> wrote:
> >"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:1137.624T1289T9...@earthlink.net...
> >> On 12-Aug-01 13:16:24 MadGun68 <madg...@qwest.net> wrote:
> >> >"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:6841.624T13T10...@earthlink.net...
> >> >[A tale of several Amiga 4000's - All seemingly broken - SNIP]
>
> dnot lkie ym spelling. And you think you are perfect typest? never heard
> of letter transposition? It's a common error on teh internet!!!!

Except that you supposedly 'mis-spelled' babble every damn time you
write it. Claiming that that is a typo, is not being honest, is it
now?

--
Rick Hodger

Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 13, 2001, 9:22:42 PM8/13/01
to


maybe others shouldn't assume I'm stupid, especially when they trun around
and prove they lack something upstairs. But why do some assume I'm stupid?

How many Amigas did I buy that turned out to be busted? (based on what I
wrote)

>> So how important is the time line of CBMs bankruptcy to you? Apparently
>> not much!

>On the contrary, it's very important. If they were still around and you
>contacted them, things
>could have been different. Did you contact them?

No! why would I want to do that?


<quote information available on my web pages>

It may be worth noting that these letters were sent before a statement
was published requesting users and dealers communicate helpful suggestions
rather than all the negitive. I think it was a request made by Mr. Gould.

I don't know, I never heard from Mr. Gould, weither or not my efforts
were noticed. But given the time lapse for magazine publication, it's
possible it did. I did FEDX to him. Both packages containing the tug of
war.

Tim Rue


----------------------------------------------------


Irving Gould 4/12/94
375 Park Ave.
Suite 2109
New York, NY 10152


Sir,
I'm not asking much! I simply want Commodore to honor their
warranty! I certainly did not bargan for the over abundance of B.S. I
have gotten ( 80% + B.S. to 20% - solid information ) from the Amiga
marketplace but it now seems to orginate from Commodore!? And my
frustration with all of it has blinded me ( C.C.Syndrome ) to what
good Commodore must have done?

I bought an A4000/040 with the sole intent on promoting it to the
trade show company I work for. For both internal and external use.
The additional products I bought for use through the Amiga work only
as well as the broken, from day one, A4000/040 has allowed. I didn't
Know I was buying a "new?" refurbished system, that although it has a
one year warranty, replacement parts are being constrained. I suppose
for the same reason constraint was used with the application of heat-
sink compound between the CPU and its heat sink! How am I to promote
such a system successfully if I myself have such frustration with it?


As part of releasing my frustration and knowing my productive
intentions, I will be posting a close version of this letter to the
networks I have access to. I will put forth the effort to do this this
comming weekend.

The following message is due to a hardware problem. The intent of it
is to motivate Commodore into correcting the lack of replacement parts,
in order to at least uphold their 1 year warranty. The message exposes
the basic unending problem for which Commodore is responsible for.
There is no excuse left that is acceptable, Action to correct the
problem is all that is left! Action that Commodore is able to take.
Please forward this message where appropriate.

To Commodore,

No one is responsible for Commodore financial position
but Commodore itself! Not the end users, dealers, developers, any
other outside party, or those responsible for the creation of the
Amiga. If there was any cheat, it was you, Commodore, to yourself.

Commodore, you BOUGHT the Amiga and have used and abused it
to the degree of which you lack reaching the potential profit
the Amiga creators knew it had, as they worked hard to develope and
give it this potential. Intelligent Dreamers standing on reality.

If there is any one thing responsible for the Amigas survival,
it is this potential the creators gave it! So strong a potential, end
users and developers saw it. Perhaps the best sales pitch, not word of
mouth but recognition of what the Amiga is. Some kept it to themselves,
treating it as an advantage.

Commodore, perhaps you simply didn't know how to promote
it, for lack of your real recognition of the Amigas potential, less
than that of users and developers. You tried your best to constrain
the Amigas potential from the beginning, Limiting RAM as you limited
your own vision and profit. And you still place constrains on the
Amiga as you constrict your vision and profits even more.

Without end users you have nothing, without developers
creating work arounds to your constraints, you would have lost it
long ago.

Technology has evolved and now end users and developers
wisper to each other "the best thing that can happen is for
Commodore to let go of the Amiga to those whom have the vision and
drive as the creators had." Only soon it may be to late, as another
is bound to create new technology surpassing what exist today. But
good tools don't die, and the Amiga is such a tool, if it is in
working order and not in dis-repair!

Commodore, you have lost alot that you'll never regain
and all you had to do was recognize the fact you don't see the
vision and to let others show you. Only now with the wispers, does
anyone really want to? Recall how the creators responded to your
constraints, one point two! A prediction and warning more so than
anything it may have been claimed to be. Based on a VISION bigger
than you, even today, can see. Follow, Lead, or Get Out Of The
Way!

Commodore Constraint Syndrome - the constraint caused by lack
of vision leading to lack of profit. A catch twenty-two black hole
blindness leading those with vision on a path of frustration and
resistance.

Is a glass half empty or half full? Is this message positive
or negitive? Only Commodore can "vision it" one way or the other!

Commodore, the basic problem that began long ago is still
being felt! And there can be only one reason for it, the Commodore
Constraint Syndrome.

Vision - the difference between seeing the Amiga as an
exceptional machine - and - seeing the Amiga as a machine able to
handle exceptions. Of which the Amigas life has always been based on
ability to handle the uncommon exceptions through exceptional people,
developers and users! Commodore, get the vision, don't pretend!


Timothy V. Rue

------------------------------------------------


Irving Gould 4/17/94
375 Park Ave.
Suite 2109
New York, NY 10152


Sir,

The enclosed document is not "Free Advice." It is recognition of
why I have had difficulty in pursuing the idea of intergrating the Amiga
into the company I work for. From my attempts to purchase an A4000/040 to
the current hardware problems I have (clearly due to manufacturing). A
remanufactured CPU board that only had enough heat-sink compound to have at
best a 5% contact between the CPU and the heat-sink. And I not sure what all
else may be wrong with it, though problems suggest DMA.

I bought the system new. No replacement parts available. So what
about the one year warranty?

You should have received another letter from me by now about the
Commodore Constraint Syndrome. Sending you the enclosed document was
something I put a good deal of consideration into doing. A person in your
position may find reason to ignore it, just as a person in your position is
out of touch with the production floor people. Everyone is a wealth
generator if proper valid incentive exist for each person.

Even in the event I get my system repaired, a great deal of
momentum I generated in promoting the Amiga to the company I work for is
lost. The Commodore Constraint Syndrome is well felt by myself. And I think
it stinks. So......

Should you find the enclosed document of any help to Commodores
financial debugging, I request you make my job easier buy doing something to
help me overcome the lost momentum I've suffered in promoting the Amiga to
the company I work for. The Amiga and additional hardware used with it, was
an investment I personally made with the sole intent of promoting it to the
company I work for. I do not lack vision as to the many ways the Amiga can
be used internally and externally in the trade show business.

Being Atlanta based and with a company who has done and continues
to bid 1996 Olympic exhibit work, as well as Turner and other less publicly
aware work, I recognize the potential value the Amiga can add to our
services as well as to Commodore. I also recognize the potential for
becomming an advisor in the Atlanta area for using the Amiga in the
trade show business, increasing my personal worth.

I expect my system to be repaired under warranty, however, I want
more. I want Commodores help in overcomming the Commodore Constraint
Syndrome and the affect it has had on my efforts.


Thankyou,

Timothy V. Rue


---------------------------------------------


Irving Gould
375 Park Ave.
New York, NY 10152


Mr. Gould,

I have made an Error.

There is and error in the document I sent you.

"The "TUG OF WAR" of INCOME and COMPETITION in BUSINESS and the
UNBEATABLE COMPETITIVE EDGE "CLICK"!

The ERROR is in trying to keep it a company secret! In doing so
important information was not communicated to those whom needed to
know. And I lost my job.

Mr. Gould, I've enclosed another copy with proof of this error.

If it will be of any help, please make as many copies as you see
fit. And give them to those you are dealing with in regards to the
Amiga. I believe in the machine and it's technology. And I know the
only winner in legal matters is the machinery of the legal system.

It is more important to me, that the outcome of the Amiga is a
productive one, than it is to be recognized for my error and
my correcting it.

We are all human and proof is in making errors and then correcting.


Sincerely,

Timothy V. Rue

----------------------------------------------

Email: tim...@mindspring.com
Copyright © 1988, 1994, 1996 Timothy V. Rue

</quote>


>> Geee, do you think Commodore went bankrupt because they wouldn't make
>> available whay people like me were trying to buy?
>>
>> Perhaps there was a reason they had a problem in making such available?
>>
>> Like not having paid royalities on IP they were using!
>>
>> dnot lkie ym spelling. And you think you are perfect typest? never heard
>> of letter transposition? It's a common error on teh internet!!!!
>>
>> Does your saying I;m a troll make it so? OR can people see for themselves?

>I think when you call someone "fucking stupid" it's pretty clear your intent
>is to troll,
>and I think people can see this for themselves.

Geee do you suppose there are any more details I need to go over again and
again before you realize that assuming I'm stupid is a mistake?


>> Oh wait, that's what's wrong with you.

>I thought his problem was he's "fucking stupid?"

>> You can't even get simple facts right. To busy seeing what is not there.

>Not true, he was inquiring about your "simple facts" when you flamed him.

I hope someone comes along and questions your ability to know math next
time you add two simple numbers. You know by asking all sorts of questions
that they should be able to deduct the answer to, themselves, and based on
what they observe of your using math. Instead of wasting your time and
keeping your from getting the math problems in front of you done.

Then Again I could be making a wrong assumption here, maybe you don't know
math. Or even how to type. Did you learn the numbers 1-10 and the letters
a-Z??? Or are you just using a calculator and speach to text program?

Hmmm, maybe I'd be right to assume you are a handicap, someone without
hands or a brain.

Why didn't people assume Jim Collas was a moron but instead assumed he
knew what he was talking about even when it was clear he didn't.


Is it possible that I did all the right things and because of it is why I
clearly see the Bull Shit in the industry? Wait, how would you know, being
you are one blinded by bull shit.

Would you like to argue about what the bit is? My sister says it's what
you put in a horses mouth, a guy I work with says it what you put in a
drill, another says it's what you put in a router, and that's just a
little bit of what people say a bit is. What do you think this bit is
about?

Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 13, 2001, 11:01:54 PM8/13/01
to
On 12-Aug-01 23:45:29 Troy Parker <TPa...@nopagesspamz.net> wrote:
>"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:1137.624T1289T9...@earthlink.net...
>> On 12-Aug-01 13:16:24 MadGun68 <madg...@qwest.net> wrote:
>> >"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> >news:6841.624T13T10...@earthlink.net...
>> >[A tale of several Amiga 4000's - All seemingly broken - SNIP]
>>
>> >> Ok so in the biased eyes of Gary, none of these companies has any
>> >> association to Amiga (the bias being how could any company associated
>to
>> >> an Amiga name holding company dare lie to a customer? - therefor they
>must
>> >> not be associated to an Amiga name holding company - not even via
>> >> association thru distributor agreements....
>>
>> >Was CBM bankrupt during the entire purchasing process for those machines?
>> >That is important.
>>
>> No!
>>
>> And I might add the following question for you to answer:
>>
>> Are you that fucking stupid?

>Seemed like a valid question to me, am I "fucking stupid" too?

Let's find out: Define/explain the internet metaphor "troll"

Troy Parker

unread,
Aug 14, 2001, 4:39:04 AM8/14/01
to

"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:15548.625T966T1...@earthlink.net...

> >> You really shouldn't assume I'm stupid regardless of how much other
want
> >> you to believe such slander/lible or what ever you want to call such
> >> wrongs done towards me. Even better you should have been
> >> able to extract the facts for yourself to begin with, rather than
> >> presenting a lazy excuse to not think for yourself.
>
> >Why not? You assumed he was "fucking stupid" for asking a relevant
question.
> >Why can
> >you label others, yet not take a placed label yourself?
>
>
> maybe others shouldn't assume I'm stupid, especially when they trun around
> and prove they lack something upstairs. But why do some assume I'm stupid?

Oh no you don't, Mr Rue. That doesn't answer the question! The question I
asked was
why can you prance around calling people "fucking stupid" and somehow feel
'above
the law' when someone says it back to you? Hummmm?

Hardly seems fair since your bleeding your heart out to these people about
the raincloud
that follows you around when you buy computers, then when they try to help
you, you turn around
and start insulting them.

> How many Amigas did I buy that turned out to be busted? (based on what I
> wrote)
>
> >> So how important is the time line of CBMs bankruptcy to you? Apparently
> >> not much!
>
> >On the contrary, it's very important. If they were still around and you
> >contacted them, things
> >could have been different. Did you contact them?
>
> No! why would I want to do that?

To solve your problem, genius.

snip-----<the 'halloween documents' ommitted>

> >> Oh wait, that's what's wrong with you.
>
> >I thought his problem was he's "fucking stupid?"
>
> >> You can't even get simple facts right. To busy seeing what is not
there.
>
> >Not true, he was inquiring about your "simple facts" when you flamed him.
>
> I hope someone comes along and questions your ability to know math next
> time you add two simple numbers. You know by asking all sorts of questions
> that they should be able to deduct the answer to, themselves, and based on
> what they observe of your using math. Instead of wasting your time and
> keeping your from getting the math problems in front of you done.

(nice smokescreen)

You mean like how you bitch and moan about your power button, and how doing
that is keeping you from getting it fixed?

> Then Again I could be making a wrong assumption here, maybe you don't know
> math. Or even how to type. Did you learn the numbers 1-10 and the letters
> a-Z??? Or are you just using a calculator and speach to text program?
>
> Hmmm, maybe I'd be right to assume you are a handicap, someone without
> hands or a brain.

Here you go throwing stones again, calling others stupid, but noone should
think that about
Tim Rue? right? Wrong. I haven't seen much of you, and I've formed my own
opinion based
on statements you make like the ones above already. You're a jerk.

You'll have to forgive me not responding to the rest of this post, I'm tired
of your
delusional ramblings.

PS: May your ATX switch never power off again!
----end

Troy Parker

unread,
Aug 14, 2001, 4:44:08 AM8/14/01
to

"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1499.625T1246T1...@earthlink.net...

> On 12-Aug-01 23:45:29 Troy Parker <TPa...@nopagesspamz.net> wrote:
> >"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:1137.624T1289T9...@earthlink.net...
> >> On 12-Aug-01 13:16:24 MadGun68 <madg...@qwest.net> wrote:
> >> >"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:6841.624T13T10...@earthlink.net...
> >> >[A tale of several Amiga 4000's - All seemingly broken - SNIP]
> >>
> >> >> Ok so in the biased eyes of Gary, none of these companies has any
> >> >> association to Amiga (the bias being how could any company
associated
> >to
> >> >> an Amiga name holding company dare lie to a customer? - therefor
they
> >must
> >> >> not be associated to an Amiga name holding company - not even via
> >> >> association thru distributor agreements....
> >>
> >> >Was CBM bankrupt during the entire purchasing process for those
machines?
> >> >That is important.
> >>
> >> No!
> >>
> >> And I might add the following question for you to answer:
> >>
> >> Are you that fucking stupid?
>
> >Seemed like a valid question to me, am I "fucking stupid" too?
>
> Let's find out: Define/explain the internet metaphor "troll"

Someone who responds to people trying to help with "are you that fucking
stupid?"

Someone with their own FAQ? ie: the Timothy Rue FAQ

Rick Hodger

unread,
Aug 14, 2001, 6:42:42 AM8/14/01
to
"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<15548.625T966T1...@earthlink.net>...

Well duh, they might have been able to help you get sorted.



>
> <quote information available on my web pages>

Instead of quoting, just give people the address. Tit.



> It may be worth noting that these letters were sent before a statement
> was published requesting users and dealers communicate helpful suggestions
> rather than all the negitive. I think it was a request made by Mr. Gould.
>
> I don't know, I never heard from Mr. Gould, weither or not my efforts
> were noticed. But given the time lapse for magazine publication, it's
> possible it did. I did FEDX to him. Both packages containing the tug of
> war.

[SNIP WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN JUST A URL LINK]

These are unintelligable at best. You seem to be fixated on how little
heatsink compound was applied to your CPU, which you could have easily
remedy yourself for a few cents. I seriously doubt that your letters
were even read by Mr Gould, more likely a secretary read them and then
filed them in the round cabinet.



> >> Geee, do you think Commodore went bankrupt because they wouldn't make
> >> available whay people like me were trying to buy?
> >>
> >> Perhaps there was a reason they had a problem in making such available?
> >>
> >> Like not having paid royalities on IP they were using!
> >>
> >> dnot lkie ym spelling. And you think you are perfect typest? never heard
> >> of letter transposition? It's a common error on teh internet!!!!
> >>
> >> Does your saying I;m a troll make it so? OR can people see for themselves?
>
> >I think when you call someone "fucking stupid" it's pretty clear your intent
> >is to troll,
> >and I think people can see this for themselves.
>
> Geee do you suppose there are any more details I need to go over again and
> again before you realize that assuming I'm stupid is a mistake?

Except that you've -never- provided any proof that you are in any way
intelligent. Your 'communication's are unreadable gibberish (filled
with disjointed and fragmented sentences), ideas for software are
unpractical, and so many lies and conspiracy theories as to convince
most of the population of csam that you are a bonifide escaped loony.

> >> Oh wait, that's what's wrong with you.
>
> >I thought his problem was he's "fucking stupid?"
>
> >> You can't even get simple facts right. To busy seeing what is not there.
>
> >Not true, he was inquiring about your "simple facts" when you flamed him.
>
> I hope someone comes along and questions your ability to know math next
> time you add two simple numbers. You know by asking all sorts of questions
> that they should be able to deduct the answer to, themselves, and based on
> what they observe of your using math. Instead of wasting your time and
> keeping your from getting the math problems in front of you done.

Math was never involved at any point. Stop trying to bring irrelevant
(and possibly metaphorical) subjects into the thread.

> Then Again I could be making a wrong assumption here, maybe you don't know
> math. Or even how to type. Did you learn the numbers 1-10 and the letters
> a-Z??? Or are you just using a calculator and speach to text program?
>
> Hmmm, maybe I'd be right to assume you are a handicap, someone without
> hands or a brain.

Calling someone disabled is about as low as you can get. But we know
you can go lower, Timmy.

> Why didn't people assume Jim Collas was a moron but instead assumed he
> knew what he was talking about even when it was clear he didn't.

He was in charge of the company, not development of the product. If
you want technical details you ask a techy. This is what we in the
real world call "common sense".

> Is it possible that I did all the right things and because of it is why I
> clearly see the Bull Shit in the industry? Wait, how would you know, being
> you are one blinded by bull shit.

Except you are the only one who claims to see bullshit. If one man
says everyone is being secretly leached from by giant invisible
spiders that use a metal straw to suck blood from your neck, do you
believe him?

Oh, and please don't try to quote stuff at me about the world being
flat. More than one person believed that, and not only that, could
provide actual evidence.

> Would you like to argue about what the bit is? My sister says it's what
> you put in a horses mouth, a guy I work with says it what you put in a
> drill, another says it's what you put in a router, and that's just a
> little bit of what people say a bit is. What do you think this bit is
> about?

I think your "bit" is full of shit. Equestrian harnesses and carpentry
tools have -nothing- to do with computers. Just because they share
some words in their terminology does not mean they are related.

--
Rick Hodger

Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 14, 2001, 7:01:10 AM8/14/01
to
Troy Parker, you are looking for excuses.

They shouldn't be to difficult to find given the computer industry is an
expert at creating excuses and situations and products that inherently
create problems and excuses for them.

As a consumer, there is no way in hell, or in any other industry that the
problem and failure rate are reversed from what they should be.

It should be enough for you to know I spent alot of money, time an effort
to do something that would have resulted in increased sales of Amigas.

Why you have a problem seeing this is because you don't want to believe
the truth about the industry. Well I didn't either, but being it was I
having to deal with all the shit, it was a good bit impossible to ignore.

But I see you are not having any problem putting blinders on.

The bottom line is that the odds that I would deal with such a massive
amount of BS from the computer industry shouldn't be so god damn high.

I'm far from the only one that can tell you horror stories about the
industry.

As a paying consumer, I shouldn't have to deal with any of this crap.
And certainly not the badly designed shit that is done so primarily to
extraxt unearned value from the consumer. Or perhaps you believe M$ never
did a bad thing, like break anti-trust law (as just one of many examples).

"make the consumer need you" -- by creating incomplete products.

You're nieve, very. I'm not you're teacher. You are, but you gotta want to
take off the blinders.

If you really had any technical knowledge, you'd know, out of what all is
technically possible, there is no excuse for the crap we have today, or
even yesterday for that matter.

The shut down sequence is complet crap, always has been and the computer
industry knows it and always has. That's most certainly provable, even in
todays magizine rack.

MadGun68

unread,
Aug 14, 2001, 7:14:48 AM8/14/01
to

"Troy Parker" <TPa...@nopagesspamz.net> wrote in message
news:JXId7.117165$TM5.19...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...

Heh. I really wish I would have known about his "faq" before replying to his
first message. I gather from not only the faq, but other posts of his, that
is incapable of carrying on any sort decent communication past a paragraph
or two.

As far as Commodore being around when his purchases are taking place, it is
not evident whether or not they are if you read this:

>Or perhaps I could have also mentioned the next company I attempted to buy
>this system from. The company in Califorina, who did indeed get me the
>system in three days, but when I discovered the system had problems (a
>process that cost me additional money in determining there was in fact a
>problem - dealing with the pass the buck shit). So I did the return to fix
>deal to only get a system that didn't work but in a different way, etc...
>Commodores warranty didn't mean shit at that time because they weren't
>there to back it up!

Obviously the phrase "..they weren't there to back it up!" must not mean
that Commodore was bankrupt. Surely the entire company was on holiday!

>Eventually, I bought another A4000 locally, because I had spent more money
>on what I had put into the system then the A4000 cost. The system I bought
>locally was done under the agreement that if I couldn't get the other
>system to work via the califorina company, the local company would help me
>get it fixed. Well I couldn't and they didn't!!!!!!!!

I originally read this part wrong (easy to do when you run on as little
sleep as I get) but if you combine this with the letters he wrote to Mr.
Gould, it's downright comical. All this time and money just to try to get
the company you work for to use Amigas? A guy down the street from me used
to own an Amiga store here in town. At one point, they switched over and
were doing commercial video work for commercials and such. You could have
flown those guys down there and had them give a top notch promo cheaper than
the kind of money he's supposedly spending. (Or found someone closer..)

>The ERROR is in trying to keep it a company secret! In doing so
> important information was not communicated to those whom needed to
> know. And I lost my job.

Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

>I also recognize the potential for becomming an advisor in the Atlanta area
for using >the Amiga in the trade show business, increasing my personal
worth.

An Amiga advisor? You must be joking. What kind of "advisor" would send out
a letter like this without proofreading it and couldn't be bothered enough
to use a spellchecker to find out that "becoming" was mis-spelled?

MG


Rick Hodger

unread,
Aug 14, 2001, 3:22:39 PM8/14/01
to
"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<2193.626T537T4...@earthlink.net>...

> Troy Parker, you are looking for excuses.

Wrong. He was looking for answers, to which you responded with
insults. The only one trying to make excuses here is -you-.



> They shouldn't be to difficult to find given the computer industry is an
> expert at creating excuses and situations and products that inherently
> create problems and excuses for them.

Look at who's talking. Who's the one with the broken motherboard that
makes excuses about restocking fees and paranoid conspiracies, so that
he doesn't have to talk it back - in case it proves him wrong about
the 'broken ATX spec'.

> As a consumer, there is no way in hell, or in any other industry that the
> problem and failure rate are reversed from what they should be.

By your own admission, a refusal to take a faulty product back to the
place you bought it from, applied to -any- product and you will end up
with the exact same situation. Take your head out of your ass.

> It should be enough for you to know I spent alot of money, time an effort
> to do something that would have resulted in increased sales of Amigas.

I doubt it. People with an actual need for video toaster systems are
few and far between. Sure, it may have resulted in a few extra sales,
but Commodore still would have gone under. If you honestly think that
you alone could have single-handedly saved the Amiga, you have a
bigger messiah problem than we thought.

> Why you have a problem seeing this is because you don't want to believe
> the truth about the industry. Well I didn't either, but being it was I
> having to deal with all the shit, it was a good bit impossible to ignore.

But that's the problem. You, in the all the time that I have been
reading CSAM, have yet to provide one -single- solid piece of evidence
about this "truth". You ramble continuously on disjointed subjects, in
your badly informed I-know-everything-so-I-don't-need-research way.

> But I see you are not having any problem putting blinders on.

Until -you- provide something that is visible, blinders or not, noone
will see anything.

> The bottom line is that the odds that I would deal with such a massive
> amount of BS from the computer industry shouldn't be so god damn high.

Proof please. And I mean the industry as a whole, as you say. I don't
want examples of your machine's power switch being broken - which is
easily explained by your motherboard or power supply being broken, not
the specification.

> I'm far from the only one that can tell you horror stories about the
> industry.

Again, proof please. From the industry as a whole. Not individual
cases with selected companies.

> As a paying consumer, I shouldn't have to deal with any of this crap.
> And certainly not the badly designed shit that is done so primarily to
> extraxt unearned value from the consumer. Or perhaps you believe M$ never
> did a bad thing, like break anti-trust law (as just one of many examples).
>
> "make the consumer need you" -- by creating incomplete products.
>
> You're nieve, very. I'm not you're teacher. You are, but you gotta want to
> take off the blinders.

The truth is that you are delusional. You're no teacher, that's for
sure. You can barely type a cohereant sentence, let alone teach
anyone.

> If you really had any technical knowledge, you'd know, out of what all is
> technically possible, there is no excuse for the crap we have today, or
> even yesterday for that matter.

And you have proved your own technical ignorance. Your complete and
utter lack of knowledge on such simple matters as version numbers,
amongst other matters, proves that beyond doubt.

> The shut down sequence is complet crap, always has been and the computer
> industry knows it and always has. That's most certainly provable, even in
> todays magizine rack.

And again you prove your lack of knowledge. There are very good
reasons for shutdown sequences, which you in your usual way, have
opted to compeltely ignore. So here's the challange, send some
letters/emails to these magazines and tell them why you think shutdown
sequences aren't needed...and then post links to the replies here
which say that you are absoloutly right. I can pretyty much guarantee
here and now that aside from one or two sarcastic replies, -noone-
will agree with you. Why? Because they -are- needed. They save
invaluable man-hours and money simply because programs and data can be
safely saved and not lost.

--
Rick Hodger

David Ogg

unread,
Aug 15, 2001, 5:30:03 AM8/15/01
to
In article <2193.626T537T4...@earthlink.net>,
thre...@earthlink.net says...

> Troy Parker, you are looking for excuses.
>
> They shouldn't be to difficult to find given the computer industry is an
> expert at creating excuses and situations and products that inherently
> create problems and excuses for them.

This is too vague. I don't think you even understand the "industry"
anyway. There is no "industry", computer technology and specifications
are open, and competing industries fullfill their niches. it's not like
the Auto industry where a single corporation controlls the whole end
product.

> As a consumer, there is no way in hell, or in any other industry that the
> problem and failure rate are reversed from what they should be.

What do you know of this? Do you know what the failure rate is or are
you guessing?



> It should be enough for you to know I spent alot of money, time an effort
> to do something that would have resulted in increased sales of Amigas.

How much money you spent is irrelevant, as are the intentions behind the
purchase.

> Why you have a problem seeing this is because you don't want to believe
> the truth about the industry. Well I didn't either, but being it was I
> having to deal with all the shit, it was a good bit impossible to ignore.

It sounds to me like you're creating spirits in the sky to describe
things you dont understand, almost like the way the islanders created
gods to describe why the volcano erupts.



> But I see you are not having any problem putting blinders on.

But you're the one having the problems. My PC works fine, so does my
Amiga. Not believing your theories is not "having blinders on."



> The bottom line is that the odds that I would deal with such a massive
> amount of BS from the computer industry shouldn't be so god damn high.

You haven't had any dealings with the industry. You have only had
dealings with a few vendors. How do you equate this as to the state of
the industry?

> I'm far from the only one that can tell you horror stories about the
> industry.

Again, you wern't dealing with the industry, you were dealing with "Joe
Shmo's house of mail order", hardly representative of the industry.



> As a paying consumer, I shouldn't have to deal with any of this crap.
> And certainly not the badly designed shit that is done so primarily to
> extraxt unearned value from the consumer. Or perhaps you believe M$ never
> did a bad thing, like break anti-trust law (as just one of many examples).

The above is 100% cliche'.



> "make the consumer need you" -- by creating incomplete products.
>
> You're nieve, very. I'm not you're teacher. You are, but you gotta want to
> take off the blinders.

How am I naieve? If I had a button that didn't work, I'd have it fixed.
Cowabunga. end of problem. I've had parts go bad, like for instance my
striped RAID of 2x IBM 45 Gig HDD's. RMA'd. No problem.

If I had behaved like you, and not RMA'd the HDD's, I'd still have dead
drives, and just made up a conspiracy theory to explain why they were
dead, without even trying to return them, using "but they'd just say
there was no problem" as an excuse. That, in my eyes, is incredibly
naieve.



> If you really had any technical knowledge, you'd know, out of what all is
> technically possible, there is no excuse for the crap we have today, or
> even yesterday for that matter.

What technical knowledge do you have, Tim? From the preceding posts, you
didn't even know how the button works.



> The shut down sequence is complet crap, always has been and the computer
> industry knows it and always has. That's most certainly provable, even in
> todays magizine rack.

(putting the fact you are wrong aside) Then disable it, it's very easy
to do. "If you really had any technical knowledge" (your quote) you
would know how, piece of cake. Would you like to know how?

David Ogg

unread,
Aug 15, 2001, 6:03:04 AM8/15/01
to
> The shut down sequence is complet crap, always has been and the computer
> industry knows it and always has. That's most certainly provable, even in
> todays magizine rack.

Pin 14 on the ATX power supply connector is the "PS-ON" signal. From the
ATX spec:

PS-ON is an active low signal that turns on all of the main power rails
including 3.3V, 5V, -5V, 12V, and -12V power rails. When this signal is
held high by the PC board or left open circuited, outputs of the power
rails should not deliver current and should be held at a zero potential
with respect to ground. Power should be delivered to the rails only if
the PS-ON signal is held at ground potential. This signal should be held
at +5VDC by a pull-up resistor internal to the power supply.

Want to get rid of software control of the PS? Ground pin 14.

Now your PC will turn on and shut off with a normal power switch.

This is what you lose.

- Wake on LAN
- Wake on Modem
- Auto on by programmed TIME
- Auto on by KB/Mouse
- Auto on by Video activity/IRQ
- Auto shutdown
- OS controll of shutdown
- Standby
- Hibernate
- Auto shutdown due to OVERHEAT
- Auto shutdown due to FAN STOPPED

and many other features not possible with primitive power supplies.

Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 20, 2001, 2:59:28 PM8/20/01
to

Hmmm, seems to me that in order to do these things one of two or three
things needs to exist.

* power must be always on in order to recognize such signals
(in which case the idea of shutting off the system so to save
electricity is an illusion, at least to some degree.)

* IC switching technology is developed to the point of not needing power
(in which case there is no need for a shut down sequence when the
system can be operating continously without power cost, and heat
issues)

* The need to do them. Meaning current technology is not advanced enough
that there is a need or potential need to do them.

Overall there is a deception going on as to what is happening regarding
the concepts of 'ON' and 'OFF'

Reducing the amount of power being used and subsequent reduced
functionality available is not the same thing as the black or white issue
of 'ON' and 'OFF'

And to think, your list includes nothing regarding the saving of machine
state upon power down and certainly doesn't address the matter of having a
power outage. But I sure as hell can pop the memory out of my digital
camera without concern of losing the pictures recorded to that memory.

All of this does, however, cleverly dance around the truth, the honesty of
the matter.

What do you need a shut down sequence for, since the power is never really
completely removed (except of course by ups free power outages that are
unexpected and sudden)? (the exception of course is the intentional user
unplugging the system in order to move it - but that too is an issues for
which we do have the technology to properly address).

In Summary: The ATX power button and the fabricated complexity around it,
is an outright lie.

Now pay me for this consultation! NO Trolling allowed!!!

Keith Blakemore-Noble

unread,
Aug 20, 2001, 3:08:50 PM8/20/01
to
Hi there Timothy Rue, on or around Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:59:28 GMT you
wrote something about "Re: Response to recent babbel"...

> On 15-Aug-01 05:03:04 David Ogg <davi...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >Want to get rid of software control of the PS? Ground pin 14.
>
> >Now your PC will turn on and shut off with a normal power switch.
>
> >This is what you lose.
>
> > - Wake on LAN
> > - Wake on Modem
> > - Auto on by programmed TIME
> > - Auto on by KB/Mouse
> > - Auto on by Video activity/IRQ
> > - Auto shutdown
> > - OS controll of shutdown
> > - Standby
> > - Hibernate
> > - Auto shutdown due to OVERHEAT
> > - Auto shutdown due to FAN STOPPED
>
> >and many other features not possible with primitive power supplies.
> >
>
> Hmmm, seems to me that in order to do these things one of two or
> three things needs to exist.
>
> * power must be always on in order to recognize such signals

Well duh, that's the entire POINT Timmy!

> * IC switching technology is developed to the point of not needing
> power

Erm, why? We've already established that there is minimal power still
present.

> * The need to do them. Meaning current technology is not advanced
> enough
> that there is a need or potential need to do them.

And that, dear little Timmy, is where you are wrong.

The NEED to shutdown when overheating occurs is a VERY real need -
unless you don't care about frying your expensive system.

The NEED to shutdown when fans stop is also essential in the Real World
to prevent overheating and damage to valuable systems.

etc.

But then, you know that already Timmy, you just can't bring yourself to
admit you were wrong. Never mind.

> In Summary: The ATX power button and the fabricated complexity around
> it, is an outright lie.

Almost, Timmy. If you drop "and the fabricated complexity around it,"
and substitute "necessity" for "lie" then you've got it.

> Now pay me for this consultation!

Why? Did I hire you for said consultation?

Nope.
You did it off your own bat, so there is no requirement for anyone else
to pay you for what they didn't commission.

> NO Trolling allowed!!!

Ah, good. Does this mean you too? Thought not :-(

--
Netus Maternis, Netum Paternis

Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 20, 2001, 4:42:32 PM8/20/01
to
On 20-Aug-01 14:08:50 Keith Blakemore-Noble <Ke...@Blakemore-Noble.net> wrote:
>Hi there Timothy Rue, on or around Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:59:28 GMT you
>wrote something about "Re: Response to recent babbel"...
>> On 15-Aug-01 05:03:04 David Ogg <davi...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Want to get rid of software control of the PS? Ground pin 14.
>>
>> >Now your PC will turn on and shut off with a normal power switch.
>>
>> >This is what you lose.
>>
>> > - Wake on LAN
>> > - Wake on Modem
>> > - Auto on by programmed TIME
>> > - Auto on by KB/Mouse
>> > - Auto on by Video activity/IRQ
>> > - Auto shutdown
>> > - OS controll of shutdown
>> > - Standby
>> > - Hibernate
>> > - Auto shutdown due to OVERHEAT
>> > - Auto shutdown due to FAN STOPPED
>>
>> >and many other features not possible with primitive power supplies.
>> >
>>
>> Hmmm, seems to me that in order to do these things one of two or
>> three things needs to exist.
>>
>> * power must be always on in order to recognize such signals

>Well duh, that's the entire POINT Timmy!

Quit winning and pay for the consultation.

Keith Blakemore-Noble

unread,
Aug 20, 2001, 4:53:47 PM8/20/01
to
Hi there Timothy Rue, on or around Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:42:32 GMT you

wrote something about "Re: Response to recent babbel"...

> Quit winning and pay for the consultation.

Certainly.

Please provide me with an invoice, clearly quoting the purchase order
number and the contract under which I hired you for your consultancy.

What's that? You can't? I wonder why that would be, Timmy. Now run
along, there's a good troll.

David Ogg

unread,
Aug 20, 2001, 8:22:02 PM8/20/01
to
In article <3564.632T2183T8...@earthlink.net>,
thre...@earthlink.net says...

<Tim's ignorance snipped>

Then connect the two damn wires together if you don't want the features,
as described above, and get over it.

But the next time you complain about "Not enough heatsink compound on
the CPU" like you did with that one system, I'm going to remind you if
you had an ATX compliant system, your computer would have simply shut
down instead of self destruct.

And as for your "consultation fee", I don't think I'd ever hire a Power
Supply consultant who doesn't know how they work, and can't even get his
_own_ Power Supply to turn off!


John Burns

unread,
Aug 21, 2001, 12:19:27 AM8/21/01
to

Okay by your rules Tim here is a medical consulatation for you.

You are in need of a Brain Transplant as your present one seems to be malfunctioning
and is unable to reason correctly.

Thanks in advance for my fee :)

Rick Hodger

unread,
Aug 22, 2001, 4:57:32 AM8/22/01
to
"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<3564.632T2183T8...@earthlink.net>...

BZZT. Wrong answer. When you switch off an ATX supply, you are
effectivly turning off the entire machine aside from one or two IC's
which monitor for some of the above conditions, such as Wake On LAN
and Wake on Ring. You're talking mili-watts to run these things.
Certainly far less than your TV uses when switched to standby.

Oh, and Hibernate mode, as anyone with a laptop can tell you, uses
-no- electricity, and is invaluable for those people.

> * IC switching technology is developed to the point of not needing power
> (in which case there is no need for a shut down sequence when the
> system can be operating continously without power cost, and heat
> issues)

Pure delusion. They have however been developed to a state where they
can operate as described above, and use an infetessimal amount of
electricity.

> * The need to do them. Meaning current technology is not advanced enough
> that there is a need or potential need to do them.

Pure gibberish. "The need to do them" means absoloutly nothing.
Neither does the sentence after that. Who or what is 'them'?



> Overall there is a deception going on as to what is happening regarding
> the concepts of 'ON' and 'OFF'
>
> Reducing the amount of power being used and subsequent reduced
> functionality available is not the same thing as the black or white issue
> of 'ON' and 'OFF'

Balls. You haven't a clue what you're talking about. The ATX
specification provides all of the above, and has saved countless
millions of dollars across the world. If a system administrator in a
network of 300 machines wants to perform an upgrade, he just sets a
server to run a program at 3am. That's it. Whereas with an old style
power supply (AT) that bloke would have to go around to every single
machine, switch it on, perform the upgrade and then shut it down.

Can you grasp that concept?

> And to think, your list includes nothing regarding the saving of machine

> state upon power down...

Can you even read?

- OS controll of shutdown
- Standby
- Hibernate
- Auto shutdown due to OVERHEAT
- Auto shutdown due to FAN STOPPED

Every single one of those is to do with saving the machine, whether
software or hardware. I just bought a new computer, and it has a total
of 3 fans in it, and that doesn't even keep the temperature below 35c.
I sure as hell want to know when one of them stops working, because if
it does, the machine isn't going to last long. I -want- a big ass
warning to flash up on the screen and then the machine to shut itself
down. It saves me losing (a) data and (b) money on replacing burnt out
hardware.

> ...and certainly doesn't address the matter of having a power outage.

As for a power outage, -nothing- can save you from that except for a
battery backup.

Head. Ass. Remove.

> But I sure as hell can pop the memory out of my digital
> camera without concern of losing the pictures recorded to that memory.

Because that's flash RAM, fuckwit. Do you never wonder why a 32MB
FLASH card costs over 100 dollars? It's because they're hideously
expensive to manufacture. Also, flash RAM tends to be much slower than
the RAM needed to operate a computer.



> All of this does, however, cleverly dance around the truth, the honesty of
> the matter.

-You- are the one leading the merry little dance, noone else.

> What do you need a shut down sequence for, since the power is never really
> completely removed (except of course by ups free power outages that are
> unexpected and sudden)? (the exception of course is the intentional user
> unplugging the system in order to move it - but that too is an issues for
> which we do have the technology to properly address).

I'd love for you to tell us how you're going to prevent someone from
pulling the plug out of the wall.

> In Summary: The ATX power button and the fabricated complexity around it,
> is an outright lie.

You're not reading a single thing anyone has said, are you?



> Now pay me for this consultation! NO Trolling allowed!!!

Umm, no.

1) You're not an expert. You don't even seem to understand basic
electronics. Easily explained by you being a carpenter, and a
braindead moron.
2) You're reasoning is fatally flawed, as has been proven.
3) You're ideas and thoughts are in the realms of fantasy, bordering
on paranoia.
4) Unless you tell someone you are going to charge them for something,
-before- you do it, it's against the law.
5) Posting to a public forum and then demanding people pay you, is
probably illegal as well. May as well go stand in the street, holler a
lot, and then demand cash for what you said.

--
Rick Hodger

Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 22, 2001, 3:18:40 PM8/22/01
to
On 22-Aug-01 03:57:32 Rick Hodger <ri...@simpleftp.co.uk> wrote:
>"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:<3564.632T2183T8...@earthlink.net>...

>> * power must be always on in order to recognize such signals


>> (in which case the idea of shutting off the system so to save
>> electricity is an illusion, at least to some degree.)

>BZZT. Wrong answer. When you switch off an ATX supply, you are
>effectivly turning off the entire machine aside from one or two IC's
>which monitor for some of the above conditions, such as Wake On LAN
>and Wake on Ring. You're talking mili-watts to run these things.
>Certainly far less than your TV uses when switched to standby.

You are trolling Rick.

Tell you what, you all help me get the VIC done in the Python programming
language and maybe I'll help you figure out how to overcome industry
stupidity and make a better machine.

Keith Blakemore-Noble

unread,
Aug 22, 2001, 4:06:48 PM8/22/01
to
Hi there Timothy Rue, on or around Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:18:40 GMT you

wrote something about "Re: Response to recent babbel"...
> On 22-Aug-01 03:57:32 Rick Hodger <ri...@simpleftp.co.uk> wrote:
> >"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >>news:<3564.632T2183T8...@earthlink.net>...
>
> >> * power must be always on in order to recognize such signals
> >> (in which case the idea of shutting off the system so to save
> >> electricity is an illusion, at least to some degree.)
>
> >BZZT. Wrong answer. When you switch off an ATX supply, you are
> >>effectivly turning off the entire machine aside from one or two
> >IC's which monitor for some of the above conditions, such as Wake On
> >LAN and Wake on Ring. You're talking mili-watts to run these
> >>Certainly far less than your TV uses when switched to standby.
>
> You are trolling Rick.

Hmmm.

Looks like Timmy has redefined "trolling" to mean "pointing out the
blatant flaws in Timmy's claims, refuting them with facts".

John Burns

unread,
Aug 23, 2001, 3:10:32 AM8/23/01
to
>"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:<3564.632T2183T8...@earthlink.net>...
>> On 15-Aug-01 05:03:04 David Ogg <davi...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>> >In article <2193.626T537T4...@earthlink.net>,
>> >thre...@earthlink.net says...
>> >
>> >> The shut down sequence is complet crap, always has been and the computer
>> >> industry knows it and always has. That's most certainly provable, even
>> >> in todays magizine rack.
>>
>> >Pin 14 on the ATX power supply connector is the "PS-ON" signal. From the
>> >ATX spec:
>>
>> ...and certainly doesn't address the matter of having a power outage.

[SNIP]

>As for a power outage, -nothing- can save you from that except for a
>battery backup.

>Head. Ass. Remove.

The former with an axe please :)

>5) Posting to a public forum and then demanding people pay you, is
>probably illegal as well. May as well go stand in the street, holler a
>lot, and then demand cash for what you said.

Actually I think he, (Tim), should put on his Dunce's cap, switch off his
computer and stand in the corner till we call him ;)

Rick Hodger

unread,
Aug 23, 2001, 4:01:22 AM8/23/01
to
"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<1287.634T111T6...@earthlink.net>...

> On 22-Aug-01 03:57:32 Rick Hodger <ri...@simpleftp.co.uk> wrote:
> >"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:<3564.632T2183T8...@earthlink.net>...
>
> >> * power must be always on in order to recognize such signals
> >> (in which case the idea of shutting off the system so to save
> >> electricity is an illusion, at least to some degree.)
>
> >BZZT. Wrong answer. When you switch off an ATX supply, you are
> >effectivly turning off the entire machine aside from one or two IC's
> >which monitor for some of the above conditions, such as Wake On LAN
> >and Wake on Ring. You're talking mili-watts to run these things.
> >Certainly far less than your TV uses when switched to standby.
>
> You are trolling Rick.

No, just pointing out the usual, blatant flaws in your arguments. What
I wrote is fact. What you wrote is simply not true. You've already
proven that you have not done any research on the ATX specification
whatsoever, maybe you should go do that, hmm?

> Tell you what, you all help me get the VIC done in the Python programming
> language and maybe I'll help you figure out how to overcome industry
> stupidity and make a better machine.

How about you write the VIC yourself? Hmm? Oh wait, that's right, you
can't.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The only stupidity here is
yours. My PC, my Laptop, my Amiga, my servers in work, and my
workstation in work all operate just fine. They function exactly the
way I want them to.

Above all else, I would -never- trust a machine designed by a paranoid
delusional idiot who thinks he's a messiah. I'll stick with industry
standards for now, thank you.

--
Rick Hodger

Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 23, 2001, 4:21:32 PM8/23/01
to
On 23-Aug-01 03:01:22 Rick Hodger <ri...@simpleftp.co.uk> wrote:
>"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:<1287.634T111T6...@earthlink.net>...
>> On 22-Aug-01 03:57:32 Rick Hodger <ri...@simpleftp.co.uk> wrote:
>> >"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> >news:<3564.632T2183T8...@earthlink.net>...
>>
>> >> * power must be always on in order to recognize such signals
>> >> (in which case the idea of shutting off the system so to save
>> >> electricity is an illusion, at least to some degree.)
>>
>> >BZZT. Wrong answer. When you switch off an ATX supply, you are
>> >effectivly turning off the entire machine aside from one or two IC's
>> >which monitor for some of the above conditions, such as Wake On LAN
>> >and Wake on Ring. You're talking mili-watts to run these things.
>> >Certainly far less than your TV uses when switched to standby.
>>
>> You are trolling Rick.

>No, just pointing out the usual, blatant flaws in your arguments. What
>I wrote is fact. What you wrote is simply not true. You've already
>proven that you have not done any research on the ATX specification
>whatsoever, maybe you should go do that, hmm?

Rick,

Studing the use of roman numerals is not going to help me do algerbra.

At any rate I spent about 12 hours yesterday, last night and this morning
composing a detailed report, with reference url/links and all other
references that you can use to verify the illusion of value of the ATX
power button and related matters like shutdown sequence and wake on stuff.
I also included better ways that don't need these illusions..

I was doing this on the PC and a moment after I clicked the send button
(sending it to you for your review and feedback) the local power went out.

I don't know if it got out, so you'll have to tell me if you received it or
not. If you did, then could you send it back to me? (as the power outage
seemed to mess the system up enough that I lost it and I really don't have
the time to redo it.)

Thanks, Mr. Hodger,

Tim Rue

Rick Hodger

unread,
Aug 24, 2001, 3:36:11 AM8/24/01
to
"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<2437.635T1177T9...@earthlink.net>...

> On 23-Aug-01 03:01:22 Rick Hodger <ri...@simpleftp.co.uk> wrote:
> >"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >news:<1287.634T111T6...@earthlink.net>...
> >> On 22-Aug-01 03:57:32 Rick Hodger <ri...@simpleftp.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:<3564.632T2183T8...@earthlink.net>...
>
> >> >> * power must be always on in order to recognize such signals
> >> >> (in which case the idea of shutting off the system so to save
> >> >> electricity is an illusion, at least to some degree.)
>
> >> >BZZT. Wrong answer. When you switch off an ATX supply, you are
> >> >effectivly turning off the entire machine aside from one or two IC's
> >> >which monitor for some of the above conditions, such as Wake On LAN
> >> >and Wake on Ring. You're talking mili-watts to run these things.
> >> >Certainly far less than your TV uses when switched to standby.
> >>
> >> You are trolling Rick.
>
> >No, just pointing out the usual, blatant flaws in your arguments. What
> >I wrote is fact. What you wrote is simply not true. You've already
> >proven that you have not done any research on the ATX specification
> >whatsoever, maybe you should go do that, hmm?
>
> Rick,
>
> Studing the use of roman numerals is not going to help me do algerbra.

Neither roman numerals or algebra was mentioned.

> At any rate I spent about 12 hours yesterday, last night and this morning
> composing a detailed report, with reference url/links and all other
> references that you can use to verify the illusion of value of the ATX
> power button and related matters like shutdown sequence and wake on stuff.
> I also included better ways that don't need these illusions..

Such as?

> I was doing this on the PC and a moment after I clicked the send button
> (sending it to you for your review and feedback) the local power went out.

Oh, how conveniant.

> I don't know if it got out, so you'll have to tell me if you received it or
> not. If you did, then could you send it back to me? (as the power outage
> seemed to mess the system up enough that I lost it and I really don't have
> the time to redo it.)

What a nice little tale. Funnily enough, I don't believe you for a
second. Your tendency to make outright lies, false allegations and so
on, means that I can't take anything you say at face value.

--
Rick Hodger

Troy Parker

unread,
Aug 24, 2001, 4:39:40 AM8/24/01
to
In article <2437.635T1177T9...@earthlink.net>, Timothy
Rue,thre...@earthlink.net says...

>>No, just pointing out the usual, blatant flaws in your arguments. What
>>I wrote is fact. What you wrote is simply not true. You've already
>>proven that you have not done any research on the ATX specification
>>whatsoever, maybe you should go do that, hmm?
>
>Rick,
>
>Studing the use of roman numerals is not going to help me do algerbra.
>
>At any rate I spent about 12 hours yesterday, last night and this morning
>composing a detailed report, with reference url/links and all other
>references that you can use to verify the illusion of value of the ATX
>power button and related matters like shutdown sequence and wake on stuff.
>I also included better ways that don't need these illusions..
>
>I was doing this on the PC and a moment after I clicked the send button
>(sending it to you for your review and feedback) the local power went out.

What were you using to write it, Word? The file can be recovered.

You were working with a file for *12* HOURS, AND YOUR MACHINE DIDN'T
SAVE IT ONCE IN ALL THAT TIME!?

Holy Cow Tim, now I understand why it's so slow going coding the VIC!
You keep losing 12 hours work at a time!

>I don't know if it got out, so you'll have to tell me if you received it or
>not. If you did, then could you send it back to me? (as the power outage
>seemed to mess the system up enough that I lost it and I really don't have
>the time to redo it.)

Actually I don't believe you, nobody could be that much of a spaz.

--
The above is not necessarily the opinion of IBM
but it should be!

Troy Parker

unread,
Aug 24, 2001, 4:56:21 AM8/24/01
to

>At any rate I spent about 12 hours yesterday, last night and this morning


>composing a detailed report, with reference url/links and all other
>references that you can use to verify the illusion of value of the ATX
>power button and related matters like shutdown sequence and wake on stuff.
>I also included better ways that don't need these illusions..

I'm curious, oh enlightened one, how you would have fared had you an AT
power supply? hmmmm?

Seeing as you spent a mind boggling 12 hours (supposedly) thinking
about how to implement the features granted by an ATX power supply,
what "better ways" have you cleverly devised?

How would you implement Suspend-to-RAM? Suspend-to-disk?
Wake on modem? wake on LAN?

Or any other of the features pointed out that you failed to respond to,
instead showing up to the discussion late and unprepared, with the "dog
ate my homework" excuse?

Haven't even touched on the other ATX/ACPI feature set, like the BIOS
being able to "shut off" expansion cards that are not being used to
conserve power.

Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 24, 2001, 8:42:59 AM8/24/01
to
On 24-Aug-01 03:56:21 Troy Parker <tpb...@nc.rr.com> wrote:

>Or any other of the features pointed out that you failed to respond to,
>instead showing up to the discussion late and unprepared, with the "dog
>ate my homework" excuse?

You are incompetent. The point went way way over you head.

Which jackel are you?

Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 24, 2001, 9:30:45 AM8/24/01
to
On 24-Aug-01 02:36:11 Rick Hodger <ri...@simpleftp.co.uk> wrote:

>What a nice little tale. Funnily enough, I don't believe you for a
>second. Your tendency to make outright lies, false allegations and so
>on, means that I can't take anything you say at face value.

your irrationalities have cause you to miss the point.

Damien

unread,
Aug 24, 2001, 4:17:18 AM8/24/01
to
"Rick Hodger" <ri...@simpleftp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:5d8088f9.01082...@posting.google.com...

> "Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<2437.635T1177T9...@earthlink.net>...
[snip]

> > At any rate I spent about 12 hours yesterday, last night and this
morning
> > composing a detailed report, with reference url/links and all other
> > references that you can use to verify the illusion of value of the ATX
> > power button and related matters like shutdown sequence and wake on
stuff.
> > I also included better ways that don't need these illusions..
>
> Such as?
>
> > I was doing this on the PC and a moment after I clicked the send button
> > (sending it to you for your review and feedback) the local power went
out.
>
> Oh, how conveniant.
>
> > I don't know if it got out, so you'll have to tell me if you received it
or
> > not. If you did, then could you send it back to me? (as the power outage
> > seemed to mess the system up enough that I lost it and I really don't
have
> > the time to redo it.)
>
> What a nice little tale. Funnily enough, I don't believe you for a
> second. Your tendency to make outright lies, false allegations and so
> on, means that I can't take anything you say at face value.

Ahh. But it will now be YOUR fault if this vital information doesn't enter
the public domain. Maybe you should construct Tim's proof for him, and then
distribute it under his name.


Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 24, 2001, 10:11:35 AM8/24/01
to

Very interesting. Seems you understand "The Point" well enough to suggest
using "The Point".

So why don't you tell everyone else what "The Point" is.

Rick Hodger

unread,
Aug 24, 2001, 3:43:06 PM8/24/01
to
"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<695.636T1650T5...@earthlink.net>...

> On 24-Aug-01 02:36:11 Rick Hodger <ri...@simpleftp.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >What a nice little tale. Funnily enough, I don't believe you for a
> >second. Your tendency to make outright lies, false allegations and so
> >on, means that I can't take anything you say at face value.
>
> your irrationalities have cause you to miss the point.

My irrationalities that you can't understand how useful and how much
time and money the ATX specification has saved? Of course. The fact
that you can't grasp a few simple premises and a basic understanding
of electronic circuits is all my fault. Okay.

Symptom of Paradnoid Schizophrenia: Nothing is ever his fault. It's
always everyone elses.

--
Rick Hodger

Rick Hodger

unread,
Aug 24, 2001, 3:46:43 PM8/24/01
to
"Timothy Rue" <thre...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<695.636T1650T5...@earthlink.net>...

> On 24-Aug-01 02:36:11 Rick Hodger <ri...@simpleftp.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >What a nice little tale. Funnily enough, I don't believe you for a
> >second. Your tendency to make outright lies, false allegations and so
> >on, means that I can't take anything you say at face value.
>
> your irrationalities have cause you to miss the point.

Are you perhaps trying to say that a lack of power to your ATX power
supply caused you to lose work? Do tell, how exactly would an
old-style AT power supply have prevented this?

Oh, silly you. A lack of electricity of course, is a problem with your
power company. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ATX SPECIFICATION,
FUCKWIT! Do you really somehow think that if your power goes off, your
Amiga will keep running despite not having any electricity?

--
Rick Hodger

John Burns

unread,
Aug 25, 2001, 12:36:34 AM8/25/01
to

Tim, the point is you are wrong and you don't have the decency to admit it.
Simple really

John Burns

unread,
Aug 25, 2001, 12:43:40 AM8/25/01
to
>On 24-Aug-01 03:56:21 Troy Parker <tpb...@nc.rr.com> wrote:

>>Or any other of the features pointed out that you failed to respond to,
>>instead showing up to the discussion late and unprepared, with the "dog
>>ate my homework" excuse?

>You are incompetent. The point went way way over you head.

And what do you label someone who after spending 12 hours composing an alleged
(since we have no proof) detailed report fails to make a copy/backup.

CLUE: 3rd word of your 2nd paragraph.

John Burns

unread,
Aug 25, 2001, 12:52:08 AM8/25/01
to
>In article <2437.635T1177T9...@earthlink.net>, Timothy
>Rue,thre...@earthlink.net says...

>>>No, just pointing out the usual, blatant flaws in your arguments. What
>>>I wrote is fact. What you wrote is simply not true. You've already
>>>proven that you have not done any research on the ATX specification
>>>whatsoever, maybe you should go do that, hmm?
>>
>>Rick,
>>
>>Studing the use of roman numerals is not going to help me do algerbra.
>>
>>At any rate I spent about 12 hours yesterday, last night and this morning
>>composing a detailed report, with reference url/links and all other
>>references that you can use to verify the illusion of value of the ATX
>>power button and related matters like shutdown sequence and wake on stuff.
>>I also included better ways that don't need these illusions..
>>
>>I was doing this on the PC and a moment after I clicked the send button
>>(sending it to you for your review and feedback) the local power went out.

>What were you using to write it, Word? The file can be recovered.

>You were working with a file for *12* HOURS, AND YOUR MACHINE DIDN'T
>SAVE IT ONCE IN ALL THAT TIME!?

>Holy Cow Tim, now I understand why it's so slow going coding the VIC!
>You keep losing 12 hours work at a time!

I have a problem reconciling the figures given Tim's stated claims of the hours
he works plus the hours he requires to reconfigure his mindset and now another
12 hours is added...geez, does he ever sleep?

>>I don't know if it got out, so you'll have to tell me if you received it or
>>not. If you did, then could you send it back to me? (as the power outage
>>seemed to mess the system up enough that I lost it and I really don't have
>>the time to redo it.)

>Actually I don't believe you, nobody could be that much of a spaz.

If we accept that this really did happen to Tim then I suppose we must also
accept that he is that big a spaz ;)

Troy Parker

unread,
Aug 25, 2001, 2:59:12 AM8/25/01
to
In article <690.636T2312T5...@earthlink.net>, Timothy
Rue,thre...@earthlink.net says...

>On 24-Aug-01 03:56:21 Troy Parker <tpb...@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
>>Or any other of the features pointed out that you failed to respond to,
>>instead showing up to the discussion late and unprepared, with the "dog
>>ate my homework" excuse?
>
>You are incompetent. The point went way way over you head.

I'm incompetent? It takes one second to save your file, it's the
"competent" thing to do.

As for your "point", it stalled out and fell to the ground once you
realised an AT power supply requires AC from the power company just as
an ATX power supply does. oops.

>Which jackel are you?

You're drifting, and seem to have a problem spelling any word ending
with the "el" phonic, but at least you didn't lose the file today.

<Tim's missing rebuttal to ATX features would have been here>

Timothy Rue

unread,
Aug 25, 2001, 8:20:10 AM8/25/01
to
One person got close to the truth in a round about way, but failed to
state it, even when I requested they do so.

Just goes to show how easy it is to hide the truth and instead lie your
ass off. Either that or show your ignorance.

John Burns

unread,
Aug 25, 2001, 11:00:13 PM8/25/01
to
>One person got close to the truth in a round about way, but failed to
>state it, even when I requested they do so.

>Just goes to show how easy it is to hide the truth and instead lie your
>ass off. Either that or show your ignorance.

Thanks for that Tim but this post means absolutely nothing unless you tell
us who/which post you are talking about.

Troy Parker

unread,
Aug 26, 2001, 8:56:37 PM8/26/01
to
In article <608.637T957T49...@earthlink.net>, Timothy
Rue,thre...@earthlink.net says...

>One person got close to the truth in a round about way, but failed to
>state it, even when I requested they do so.
>
>Just goes to show how easy it is to hide the truth and instead lie your
>ass off. Either that or show your ignorance.

I notice you still haven't stated how having an AT power supply would
have saved you.