DOOM with Breathless engine?
Steffen P. Haeuser
:
: It would be possible to "port" doom to the Amiga with the Breathless
: engine, wouldn't it?
:
: And Apogee who aren't capable doing Amiga games should be glad if someone
: did it for them. And it would be nice to smash them on the fingertips
: after they said: "No Amiga is capable to run Doom" or something like that...
:
I am sure, as soon as there will be a Breathless level editor there soon will
be some "DOOM Textures". This was the same for the Mac game Marathon. Soon
after the release people ripped the GraphX out of the .WAD files and
put it in Marathon... and there were Giger textures, too.... what i would
find interesting, would be a Marathon->Breathless converter (if this is
possible... Marathon has MUCH bigger resolution... could be a problem...)
--
Steffen Haeuser - hae...@minnie.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de
WWW: http://www.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/fachschaft/adressen/haeuser.html Keeper of the Amiga Texturemapping FAQ Irc:MagicSN (try telnet 194.55.101.20)
Thomas Karlsen
Stefano Agostinelli
engine?":
>
> It would be possible to "port" doom to the Amiga with the Breathless
> engine, wouldn't it?
Why do you want this?Breathless actually is much better than Doom,and
imho also better than DoomII.
Cheerio
Stefano
+-----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Stefano Agostinelli | Now developing for You ARM: |
| Genoa - Italy | the State of Art AmigaRoleMaster System |
+-----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| IRC: arm | 'Where are you going, Master?' |
| E-mail: ago...@pn.itnet.it | 'To the Havens, Sam' |
+-----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Brian Skreeg
: : engine?":
: : >
: : > It would be possible to "port" doom to the Amiga with the Breathless
: : > engine, wouldn't it?
Absolutely impossible since, as explained before, Breathless uses the more
inferior Wolfenstein style raycasting engine while Doom,Ab3d,Gloom,TD57,Ever-
thingelse4d uses the mucho grando superior BSPtree rendering engine.
Breathless is a cheap bum. Gloom for Fidel Castro's replacement.
Ozzy,
__ _ _
/ \ \ \
/ / / / / |-Brian Skreeg--------IRC:_Ozzy-|
\__/ \ \ |-Fish Technologies Ltd---------|
\__/_/ |-Evolving software specialists-|
Mat Bettinson
Hey look, on 10 Jan 96 Thomas was heard mumbling to All:
TK> It would be possible to "port" doom to the Amiga with the Breathless
TK> engine, wouldn't it?
My god what is it with this obsession with Doom? Now don't get me wrong here,
I'm probably one of the most loyal Amiga users in existence, but I know reality
when I see it, and Doom just isn't possible on the Amiga. If you want to play
games like that, then just buy a playstation and keep the Amiga for other stuff
like Internet etc. That's what I do.
The only way you're going to get anything similar to Doom with the Amiga is to
play either Gloom or AlienBreed 3d, both great games in their own right, but
nothing like the original. Maybe things will change when we go to powerPC but
the marketing heads at AT ought to get their act together so enough sales are
generated, and ID software tempted to port it across.
Did I say ID software? I meant Williams of course now :(
/+ ant...@backyard.demon.co.uk - 2:254/255.0
/-|nthony Brice - BackYard BBS Sysop +44 (181) 4242065
... Other than that, Mrs. Kennedy, how was the parade?
James Allen
: Thomas Karlsen wrote in comp.sys.amiga.misc about "DOOM with Breathless
: engine?":
: >
: > engine, wouldn't it?
: Why do you want this?Breathless actually is much better than Doom,and
: imho also better than DoomII.
I would have to agree with this, Breathless kicks ass big time. It`s like
the further you get into this game the better the graphics get. I got
to World 2 Arena 3 last night at the graphics made me breathless. The
lightings effects are just so good and theres this brilliant part
where you travel down on a lift which moves slowly down about 20 storeys.
As the platform descends you have to use the look up and down facility to
take out the many aliens who are set in the walls. It`s great!!
The only downside to this game is that you cant save your position to
disk. You just get a code each world which means that even if you get
halfway through the 5th areana before using all your lives you still
have to play from the 1st areana the next time you play. I really hate
this and would much prefer a save system like in Doom or at the very least
a code after completing an areana. Saying that though you all know which
one I`d rather be playing, even without a save system.
--
******_******************************************************* ******
* _ //-PPC- * Simpsons, Highlander, ST:TNG, Babylon 5, X-Files *
* \\ // To the * Letterman, Nowhere man, ST:Voyager Fan - Oh yes! *
* \X/ Future * "I`m not a couch potato honest! :)" *
* ------------ - ----------- --------------------------------------- *
* A1200/030/40Mhz/6Meg/730HD/Apple CD300+ CDROM/1942/ShapeShifter *
* ************* ************** ********************************* *** *
* .James Allen. * EMail: j...@dsbc.icl.co.uk * AT *
* AKA $LiNG$hOT * or: James...@bra0101.wins.icl.co.uk * AT *
**************************** ********************************* ***
Hans-Joerg Frieden
:
: It would be possible to "port" doom to the Amiga with the Breathless
: engine, wouldn't it?
: And Apogee who aren't capable doing Amiga games should be glad if someone
: after they said: "No Amiga is capable to run Doom" or something like that...
think that Doom is so hot? Alien Breed 3D is ages ahead in terms of
gameplay. Other clones on the Amiga have identical gameplay. If someone
would really loke to do a good port, they should do a System-Shock
engine, or better yet, be original and invent something new instead of
trying to keep up with a lame PC game. Amiga games have always been more
innovative than PC games (remember Lemmings?), so who cares if Doom isn't
available..?
Regards, Hans-Joerg.
--
Hans-Joerg Frieden Schloss-Strasse 176 54293 Trier Germany
Private Mail to hfri...@fix.uni-trier.de
FTP-Admin Mail to ftpa...@ftp.uni-trier.de
Any Opinion expressed is completely my own, not those of my employers.
Doug Dyer
>Thomas Karlsen wrote in comp.sys.amiga.misc about "DOOM with Breathless
>engine?":
>>
>> It would be possible to "port" doom to the Amiga with the Breathless
>> engine, wouldn't it?
> Why do you want this?Breathless actually is much better than Doom,and
> imho also better than DoomII.
> Cheerio
>Stefano
There are hundreds of PD level editors and WADs for doom. If we could convert
them to the breathless format we would have an endless variety of games for it.
--
Doug Dyer - dy...@alx.sticomet.com | ECL: embedded command language
STI: voice (703) 329-9707 | for the 8051 family
"Do you belong to the Human Race?" - Indigo Girls
David Gentry
>would really loke to do a good port, they should do a System-Shock
>engine, or better yet, be original and invent something new instead of
How about a Descent-beater?
Terroidal Man
> TK> It would be possible to "port" doom to the Amiga with the Breathless
> TK> engine, wouldn't it?
>My god what is it with this obsession with Doom? Now don't get me wrong here,
>I'm probably one of the most loyal Amiga users in existence, but I know reality
>when I see it, and Doom just isn't possible on the Amiga.
Oh yes it is... but provided you've got 8Meg Ram, an '040, and decent graphics
card... just 'cos no-one writes stuff doesn't mean it's not possible
P.S. There is an upgrade for alien breed 3D planned (well already programmed,
using pixel 1x1 mode), which is improved on high end machines... (i think
they're doing the same on gloom (or is it fears)
I just wish people would stop thinking as their amiga 1200 as a 486 (or even
pentium) beater.. it isn't... unless you get an add-on '060, at least 8meg,
hard drive, decent monitor etc etc etc
Andy Hall
--
"The Sparrows are flying again..."
the opinions expressed here are not neccesarily
those of anyone else in the universe
(c)1995 Teroidal Man
Stefano Agostinelli
engine?":
> : : Thomas Karlsen wrote in comp.sys.amiga.misc about "DOOM with Breathless
> : : engine?":
> : : >
> : : > It would be possible to "port" doom to the Amiga with the Breathless
> : : > engine, wouldn't it?
>
> Absolutely impossible since, as explained before, Breathless uses the more
> inferior Wolfenstein style raycasting engine while Doom,Ab3d,Gloom,TD57,Ever-
> thingelse4d uses the mucho grando superior BSPtree rendering engine.
I'm not sure but Breathless uses BSPtree!
Brian Skreeg
: I'm not sure but Breathless uses BSPtree!
If it does then why? What's the point of using BSptrees if your not going to
do non-orthagonal walls. It's pointless.
__ _ _
/ \ \ \
/ / / / / |-Brian Skreeg--------------IRC:_Ozzy-|
\__/ \ \ |-Lead guitarist---Widdles on request-|
\__/_/ |-A fish or two is with no compromise-|
Guy Tanner
: ..... and Doom just isn't possible on the Amiga. .....
:
Is that a definitive statement?
Doom is possible on the Amiga, it just requires a little bit of smart
programming.
Evidence.
With an Amiga A4000 with CyberStorm060 and a CyberVision64 Card, Emplant or
ShapeShifter plus the Mac version of Doom II on CD-Rom. I can play Doom II at a
speed that is quicker than most 486/66's.
With my old EC030 CPU and the CyberVision64, provided I'm using the low
resolutiuon, I can still play Doom at an exceptable speed.
This therefore suggests that Doom is possible on the Amiga.
The fact you have to use a Mac Rom to run it, which requires converting the Mac
code to a form the Amiga can read, means a native Amiga engine should/would run
at speeds equal to or greater than the equivalent Mac.
Before someone challenges me to prove this, I can not program, I just use the
software available. Ie ShapeShifter + Mac Rom + Doom II = Doom on the Amiga.
Cheers Guy.
Thomas Karlsen
> : It would be possible to "port" doom to the Amiga with the Breathless
> : engine, wouldn't it?
> No, the thing missing is non-orthogonal walls...
> : And Apogee who aren't capable doing Amiga games should be glad if someone
> : did it for them. And it would be nice to smash them on the fingertips
> : after they said: "No Amiga is capable to run Doom" or something like that...
> I don't think they would care much. And apart from that, why do you all
> think that Doom is so hot? Alien Breed 3D is ages ahead in terms of
> ...SNIP!...
> Regards, Hans-Joerg.
I don't really think that DOOM is better then Alien Breed 3D, it's just
that DOOM is a selling name. And a computer who have Doom that plays well
will have success among people. Ofcoz AB3D is better, Doom can't be
compared. But as I said. A Doom on the Amiga would perhaps gain more
customers that choose a PC instead of an Amiga bcoz of Doom.
Thomas
Thomas Karlsen
NOW THAT'S SOMETHING... As Descent is a game that simple put you off the
chair when playing it. And playing it against someone is just fab!
A while ago I heard that some finish team were doing Descent with goroud
shaded graphics...
Björn Hagström
><Pine.SOL.3.90.960110...@sophocles.algonet.se>
>Hey look, on 10 Jan 96 Thomas was heard mumbling to All:
>
> TK> engine, wouldn't it?
>
>My god what is it with this obsession with Doom? Now don't get me wrong here,
>I'm probably one of the most loyal Amiga users in existence, but I know reality
>games like that, then just buy a playstation and keep the Amiga for other stuff
>like Internet etc. That's what I do.
Doom is VERY possible on the Amiga. The only thing that makes doom impossible
on the amiga is because nobody wants to convert it. Take a look at team17's
ab3dse. It's engine is far beyond the one in doom.
>
>The only way you're going to get anything similar to Doom with the Amiga is to
>play either Gloom or AlienBreed 3d, both great games in their own right, but
>nothing like the original. Maybe things will change when we go to powerPC but
>the marketing heads at AT ought to get their act together so enough sales are
>generated, and ID software tempted to port it across.
>
>Did I say ID software? I meant Williams of course now :(
The ab3d engine can do more than the one in doom. Just look at the water
effects and the multilevel possibility. (Don't reply to this if you don't get
what multilevel I'm talk about, just think again.). AB3d has looks like shit
(ab3dse will look better. Much better) but it has a very advanced engine.
Btw. The breathless engine cannot do walls in different angles. So no doom in
breathless engine. Besides WHY convert doom with ANY engine ? What's the use ?
Ab3dse screenshots ? check: http://www.medio.mh.se/~orgin/games.html
/BH
Ruud Dingemans
MB> From: Mat Bettinson <ant...@cu-amiga.demon.co.uk>
MB> My god what is it with this obsession with Doom? Now don't get me wrong
MB> here, I'm probably one of the most loyal Amiga users in existence, but I
MB> know reality when I see it, and Doom just isn't possible on the Amiga.
Uhm, reality is that DOOM for the Mac runs on the Amiga using
Shapeshifter and a 040 (equivalent to a 486). Seeing that this is an
emulation, it should run even faster in native Amiga mode.
Saying it "is not possible" on the Amiga is simply wrong. It may not
be viable, since not everyone has a 50 Mhz 030 or faster CPU, but
it is certainly possible - IF you want to.
MB> The only way you're going to get anything similar to Doom with the
MB> Amiga is to play either Gloom or AlienBreed 3d, both great games in
MB> their own right, but nothing like the original.
The original runs on Amigas. Today.
Regards, Ruud
rdi...@grafix.xs4all.nl
-- Via Xenolink 1.981, XenolinkUUCP 1.1
Håkan Svensson
>> Btw. The breathless engine cannot do walls in different angles. So no doom
>> in breathless engine.
> Breathless doesn't use non-perpendicular walls,but that does not lead
> necessarely to conclude that it doesn't use BSP trees.
Actually, I found it pretty amusing that the texture mapping engine in the
/Mathematica/ demo by Reflex in the greetings part could do non-orthogonal
walls, while Breathless can't. Those who have seen that demo know why ;)
On the other hand, I don't know if this is only in the preview, but I didn't
think Breathless was nearly as playable as other Doom clones, lacking the
pace of Gloom and the suspense of AB3D. The slow walking and turning meant
holding down that control key all the time, and I didn't seem to be able to
sidestep and turn at the same time.
--
__This msg is (C) me. Distribution by MSN is breach of copyright.__
/// E-mail: d95...@nada.kth.se Finger for PGP key and geek code \\\
__/// Top 10 things 95 in Windows 95 stands for: \\\__
\XX/ #2: The % of users who'll have upgrade their wardware. \XX/
Jyrki Saarinen
> I'm not sure but Breathless uses BSPtree!
Hmm. The programmer (Alberto) told me that Breathless uses
raycasting. Are you talking about the new version?
-- _
a Stellar programmer _ //
"Amiga - back for the future" \X/
Doug Dyer
>> I'm not sure but Breathless uses BSPtree!
>Hmm. The programmer (Alberto) told me that Breathless uses
>raycasting. Are you talking about the new version?
Could you folks explain what BSP trees have to do with ray casting?
maybe my ray casting (aka ray tracing) terminology comes from a different
graphics area. I'd call bsp trees the data storage technique and ray
casting the rendering method.
>-- _
>a Stellar programmer _ //
>"Amiga - back for the future" \X/
--
Doug Dyer - dy...@alx.sticomet.com | ECL: embedded command language
STI: voice (703) 329-9707 | for the 8051 family
These opinions are yours
Aki Laukkanen
Stefano Agostinelli (ago...@pn.itnet.it) wrote:
: > thingelse4d uses the mucho grando superior BSPtree rendering engine.
: I'm not sure but Breathless uses BSPtree!
You really sure? Why no non-orthogonal walls then?
--
Daeron
Andy Clitheroe
>Stefano Agostinelli (ago...@pn.itnet.it) wrote:
>: Thomas Karlsen wrote in comp.sys.amiga.misc about "DOOM with Breathless
>: engine?":
>: >
>: > engine, wouldn't it?
>
No. Absolutely not. Impossible. Can`t be done. Do I have to
make myself clearer? Breathless uses an outdated inflexible
fears-inspired cheese-bucket of an engine and couldn`t do a
Gloom level, never mind a Doom level.
>: Why do you want this?Breathless actually is much better than Doom,and
>: imho also better than DoomII.
Then you are in the vast minority. I don`t think there has been
any game to rival Doom on any computer in terms of gameplay.
The thing was, they didn`t have to rush Doom out in time for
christmas or to beat other, superior games to the shops, so
they took their time and perfected the gameplay, rather than
shoving out an initially pretty but ultimately septic dribble
of a game.
>I would have to agree with this, Breathless kicks ass big time. It`s like
trundling around a drab, unimaginative prison cell on a
unicycle with a wobbly wheel wishing you`d brought your glasses
so the other inmates wouldn`t look so blurred.
>the further you get into this game the better the graphics get. I got
>to World 2 Arena 3 last night at the graphics made me breathless. The
>lightings effects are just so good and theres this brilliant part
where you press three buttons simultaneously and play something
else instead
>where you travel down on a lift which moves slowly down about 20 storeys.
>As the platform descends you have to use the look up and down facility to
fire twenty feet over the heads of the enemy who then die,
presumably of surprise.
>take out the many aliens who are set in the walls. It`s great!!
>The only downside to this game is that you cant save your position to
>disk. You just get a code each world which means that even if you get
>halfway through the 5th areana before using all your lives you still
>have to play from the 1st areana the next time you play. I really hate
>this and would much prefer a save system like in Doom or at the very least
>a code after completing an areana. Saying that though you all know which
>one I`d rather be playing, even without a save system.
>
>--
Andy Clitheroe.
Hans-Joerg Frieden
: > >gameplay. Other clones on the Amiga have identical gameplay. If someone
: > >would really loke to do a good port, they should do a System-Shock
: > >engine, or better yet, be original and invent something new instead of
: >
: > How about a Descent-beater?
: NOW THAT'S SOMETHING... As Descent is a game that simple put you off the
: chair when playing it. And playing it against someone is just fab!
time, but really it does only give you fun when played in a network...
IMHO, there's only a few _good_ 3D games on PC's, these are:
System Shock: Probably one of the best games I've ever played, everyting
was OK here (at least).
Future Shock: Only seen a demo so far, but this game has atmosphere that
scares the hell out of you. Really nice done, and some good effects here
(the broken buildings, for example).
Underworld I and II: Those where OK, too, although they were quite hard.
That's it. Forget all those Doom clones, they almost always suck after a
few days of gameplay...
Björn Hagström
>Bj=F6rn Hagstr=F6m wrote in comp.sys.amiga.misc about "Re: DOOM with Breat=
>hless
>engine?":
>> The ab3d engine can do more than the one in doom. Just look at the water
>t get
>> what multilevel I'm talk about, just think again.). AB3d has looks like =
>shit
>> (ab3dse will look better. Much better) but it has a very advanced engine=
>.
>
> Can you tell something more about ab3dse? Will it support gfx cards?
Check: http://www.team17.com for some info on ab3dse.
or : http://www.medio.mh.se/~orgin for some snapshots.
>
>> Btw. The breathless engine cannot do walls in different angles. So no do=
>om in
>> breathless engine.
>
> Breathless doesn't use non-perpendicular walls,but that does not lead
> necessarely to conclude that it doesn't use BSP trees.
So ?? What does that has to do with what I wrote ?
/BH.
Casper
: Then you are in the vast minority. I don`t think there has been
Actually, I thought AB3D was a big improvement over 'pacman like'
Doom.
: trundling around a drab, unimaginative prison cell on a
: unicycle with a wobbly wheel wishing you`d brought your glasses
: so the other inmates wouldn`t look so blurred.
Yup. It's sllooowww and crap. But it got you and Black Magic
off your backsides to go and write Gloom and AB3DSE.
: where you press three buttons simultaneously and play something
: else instead
:)
: fire twenty feet over the heads of the enemy who then die,
: presumably of surprise.
But yet if you fire one mm BELOW them you miss.
Stu. :)
--
Stuart Tomlinson http://metro.turnpike.net/~stu/
'I'm a ghost, I admit it, but I'm a friendly ghost.'
James Allen
: j...@oasis.icl.co.uk (James Allen) wrote:
: >Stefano Agostinelli (ago...@pn.itnet.it) wrote:
: >: Thomas Karlsen wrote in comp.sys.amiga.misc about "DOOM with Breathless
: >: engine?":
: >: >
: >: > It would be possible to "port" doom to the Amiga with the Breathless
: >: > engine, wouldn't it?
: >
: No. Absolutely not. Impossible. Can`t be done. Do I have to
: make myself clearer? Breathless uses an outdated inflexible
: fears-inspired cheese-bucket of an engine and couldn`t do a
: Gloom level, never mind a Doom level.
Oh oh oh...Getting a little bitter arent we Andy.... :)
Just because Breathless came out first and is what got you thinking
about updating Breed 3D....
: >: Why do you want this?Breathless actually is much better than Doom,and
: >: imho also better than DoomII.
: Then you are in the vast minority. I don`t think there has been
: any game to rival Doom on any computer in terms of gameplay.
: The thing was, they didn`t have to rush Doom out in time for
: christmas or to beat other, superior games to the shops, so
: they took their time and perfected the gameplay, rather than
: shoving out an initially pretty but ultimately septic dribble
: of a game.
Now come on Andy, you know Breathless was in development a long time
before you even thought about doing Breed 3D 2...I doubt they rushed
it too much as they had a decent looking engine developed back in Feb 95...
Have you actually played Breathless for any length of time??? It really
is superb when you take the time to get into it...It has a different style
of gameplay to Breed 3D and Doom, try playing it some time... ;>
: >I would have to agree with this, Breathless kicks ass big time. It`s like
: trundling around a drab, unimaginative prison cell on a
: unicycle with a wobbly wheel wishing you`d brought your glasses
: so the other inmates wouldn`t look so blurred.
Blurred...??? I hope you dont mean the graphics..Nothings blurred about
them...No 4x4 resolutions here..:)
: >the further you get into this game the better the graphics get. I got
: >to World 2 Arena 3 last night at the graphics made me breathless. The
: >lightings effects are just so good and theres this brilliant part
: where you press three buttons simultaneously and play something
: else instead
Maybe I would if Breed 3D 2 was actually out...After I`d got stuck in
Breathless of course... :)
: >where you travel down on a lift which moves slowly down about 20 storeys.
: >As the platform descends you have to use the look up and down facility to
: fire twenty feet over the heads of the enemy who then die,
: presumably of surprise.
Hey, the collision detection aint that bad. At least the bullets dont
suddenly via upwards homing in on aliens on higher levels when your shooting
from the ground..Hmm, dont want to mention what game that happens in... ;>
: Andy Clitheroe.
Seriously for a moment though Andy, I am bloody impressed by Breed 3D and
am getting pretty damn excited about seeing Breed 3D 2. Breathless is
a different kind of Doom game and as such shouldnt be compared so
directly. I personally want both games so that I have two different styles
of Doom which both play well, look good and show us just what the Amiga
is truly capable of.
Oh and one more thing - Breed 3D 2 better be damn good after what you`ve
been saying... ;>
Err and when are we getting a PLAYABLE DEMO.....?????
John Millington
: Doom is by far the most overestimated program
: I've ever seen... Although it was a very original thing to do
: (technically) it suxx big in Gameplay.
No way, dude. Even id's later games (Heretic, Hexen), which are
technically superior, aren't as fun as Doom. Doom has the PERFECT
subject matter and imagery. I *LOVE* creeping through computer
rooms with a shotgun, blasting imps. What could be better? :-)
Yog-Sothoth Neblod Zin,
John Millington
Hans-Joerg Frieden
: I don't really think that DOOM is better then Alien Breed 3D, it's just
: will have success among people. Ofcoz AB3D is better, Doom can't be
: compared. But as I said. A Doom on the Amiga would perhaps gain more
: customers that choose a PC instead of an Amiga bcoz of Doom.
the availabilty of Doom... Doom is by far the most overestimated program
users that are that much concerned about Doom... On the PC, there are
many games which are MUCH better (Future Shock and System Shock, for
example). Now, if someone would bring out Doom for the Archimedes, do you
really think we'd all rush out and buy Acorns box just to play Doom?
Stefano Agostinelli
engine?":
>
> > I'm not sure but Breathless uses BSPtree!
>
> raycasting. Are you talking about the new version?
Now I was simply wrong :)
What new version?
Cheers
Stefano Agostinelli
engine?":
>
"I'm not sure..." However I was wrong.
Cheerio
Morden
: Oh and one more thing - Breed 3D 2 better be damn good after what you`ve
: been saying... ;>
After al he's been saying, it had better be brilliant.
: Err and when are we getting a PLAYABLE DEMO.....?????
Screw the playable bit! I just want *A* DEMO! Rolling, even!
--
____
---- / / / -- Jason Murray - G66Z9 - http://yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au/~s9507594
____/ / / "All life is transitory, a dream. We all come together in the same
\ \/ / / place at the end of time. If I don't see you again here, I will
\/_/_/ see you in a little while, in the place where no shadows fall."
-- Delenn, Confessions & Lamentations. <*> <*> <*>
Paul Branney
> : unicycle with a wobbly wheel wishing you`d brought your glasses
> : so the other inmates wouldn`t look so blurred.
> off your backsides to go and write Gloom and AB3DSE.
> : else instead
> : presumably of surprise.
the game from Power for full price so as not to wait any longer. But will there be
fixes to things like the collision detection? And being commercial, will it wait
until a Breathless 2, and cost the full price again? Surely it is still a fun game to
play, and not TOO tedious?
_________________________________ ________________________________
| Paul Branney | Amiga 1200/030 @ 40 MHz |
| Department of Computer Science | Anyone driving slower than me |
| Edinburgh University | is an idiot. Anyone driving |
| E-mail: p...@dcs.ed.ac.uk | faster than me is a maniac. |
================================= ================================
Steffen P. Haeuser
: Then you are in the vast minority. I don`t think there has been
: any game to rival Doom on any computer in terms of gameplay.
Oh, at least one DOOM-style game that beats Doom as to gameplay, comes
to my mind... Marathon... :))) No chance for DOOM... as to gameplay and
as to graphics... and as to sound...
--
Steffen Haeuser - hae...@minnie.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de
WWW: http://www.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/fachschaft/adressen/haeuser.html Keeper of the Amiga Texturemapping FAQ Irc:MagicSN (try telnet 194.55.101.20)
Andy Clitheroe
>Andy Clitheroe (al...@team17.com) wrote:
>: j...@oasis.icl.co.uk (James Allen) wrote:
>: >Stefano Agostinelli (ago...@pn.itnet.it) wrote:
>: >: Thomas Karlsen wrote in comp.sys.amiga.misc about "DOOM with Breathless
>: >: engine?":
>: >: >
>: >: > It would be possible to "port" doom to the Amiga with the Breathless
>: >: > engine, wouldn't it?
>: >
>
>: No. Absolutely not. Impossible. Can`t be done. Do I have to
>: make myself clearer? Breathless uses an outdated inflexible
>: fears-inspired cheese-bucket of an engine and couldn`t do a
>: Gloom level, never mind a Doom level.
>
>Oh oh oh...Getting a little bitter arent we Andy.... :)
>Just because Breathless came out first and is what got you thinking
>about updating Breed 3D....
Not true. Thousands won`t believe me, but that`s life.
>
>: >: Why do you want this?Breathless actually is much better than Doom,and
>: >: imho also better than DoomII.
>
>: Then you are in the vast minority. I don`t think there has been
>: any game to rival Doom on any computer in terms of gameplay.
>: The thing was, they didn`t have to rush Doom out in time for
>: christmas or to beat other, superior games to the shops, so
>: they took their time and perfected the gameplay, rather than
>: shoving out an initially pretty but ultimately septic dribble
>: of a game.
>Now come on Andy, you know Breathless was in development a long time
>before you even thought about doing Breed 3D 2...I doubt they rushed
>it too much as they had a decent looking engine developed back in Feb 95...
Breathless was rushed out for Christmas, full stop. I expect
the prospect of having to face Gloom Deluxe and AB3D2 if they
waited to put some gameplay in had something to do with it too.
>Have you actually played Breathless for any length of time??? It really
>is superb when you take the time to get into it...It has a different style
>of gameplay to Breed 3D and Doom, try playing it some time... ;>
>
>: >I would have to agree with this, Breathless kicks ass big time. It`s like
>
>: trundling around a drab, unimaginative prison cell on a
>: unicycle with a wobbly wheel wishing you`d brought your glasses
>: so the other inmates wouldn`t look so blurred.
>Blurred...??? I hope you dont mean the graphics..Nothings blurred about
>them...No 4x4 resolutions here..:)
>
Nor in AB3D. Unless you were being sarcastic. At least AB3D
aliens had a face when you got up close. Something else: how
many different aliens are there on EACH LEVEL in Breathless?
Not all of them, I`d be willing to bet. Not enough memory and
not enough time spent on important things like compaction so as
to cram as much as possible into 2meg.
>: >the further you get into this game the better the graphics get. I got
>: >to World 2 Arena 3 last night at the graphics made me breathless. The
>: >lightings effects are just so good and theres this brilliant part
>
>: where you press three buttons simultaneously and play something
>: else instead
>Maybe I would if Breed 3D 2 was actually out...After I`d got stuck in
>Breathless of course... :)
>
So sorry, Breed 3D 2 is still in development. Look at it this
way: I had AB3D1 running in full screen 1x1 in a couple of days
, and I could have released `AB3D Deluxe` or `Fearless` in time
for Christmas, and it looked better than Breathless even then.
But no, I thought, that would be ripping people off, so I`ll
spend seven days a week tarting up a level editor, game editor,
graphic converters and compacters, chucking out and recoding
the alien inntelligence, re-writing most of the rendering
routines to improve the graphic quality (eg full gouraud
shading on walls, lens flare, smoke, new ripply shiny water)
and basically producing a new game with a few useful parts
scrounged from AB3D1.
>: >where you travel down on a lift which moves slowly down about 20 storeys.
>: >As the platform descends you have to use the look up and down facility to
>
>: fire twenty feet over the heads of the enemy who then die,
>: presumably of surprise.
>Hey, the collision detection aint that bad. At least the bullets dont
Yes it IS that bad. In the CU Amiga review they delighted over
the fact that you could look down into pits to kill the aliens
there, but failed to point out that the same caan be achieved
at much less risk by simply standing well back from the edge
and firing randomly over the top. Nervous creatures as they
are, the aliens can`t stand bullets whizzing overhead and feign
death in self-defense. THAT IS SHIT.
>suddenly via upwards homing in on aliens on higher levels when your shooting
>from the ground..Hmm, dont want to mention what game that happens in... ;>
Sorry, I thought it would be useful to be able to spin round
and shoot an alien flying above you without having to
laboriously hammer `7` to get it in your sights. Oh, except you
don`t, do you? Just fire underneath it and you`ll scare it to
death.
>
>: Andy Clitheroe.
>Seriously for a moment though Andy, I am bloody impressed by Breed 3D and
Thank you.
>am getting pretty damn excited about seeing Breed 3D 2. Breathless is
Screenshots will be turning up V.SOON indeed in magazines and
on the web page. These are AB3D2 screenshots, not full screen
1x1 AB3D1 shots like the last ones.
>a different kind of Doom game and as such shouldnt be compared so
>directly. I personally want both games so that I have two different styles
>of Doom which both play well, look good and show us just what the Amiga
>is truly capable of.
>Oh and one more thing - Breed 3D 2 better be damn good after what you`ve
>been saying... ;>
I hope people will think so.
Inncidentally, despite the rave reviews and popularity on the
net, Ab3D has sold a little over 10,000 copies in total, on
CD32 and A1200 combined. Seems the pirates are not yet ready to
stop choking the life out of the Amiga.
>Err and when are we getting a PLAYABLE DEMO.....?????
>
As soon as I`ve made one.
Andy Clitheroe.
Steve Koren
"Björn Hagström" <ping...@ntostud.mh.se> wrote:
> Take a look at team17's ab3dse.
I tried. I downloaded about 3 or 4 of these texture mapping demos from
Aminet last night - AB3D demo, something called Fears, etc. Every
single one of them crashed my system (I have a stock 4000/040/25/GVP
Spectrum/CyberGfx - nothing even remotely exceptional here).
Somehow I am not impressed. This is why I don't buy Amiga games any
more. Applications invariably work on my machine. Games invariably do
not. My machine is not new in any regard. One would think game
developers would have figured it out by now, but I guess not. The one
or two games which don't crash immediately (such as Hired Guns) always
assume they're talking to a 15 KHz screen mode, and my monitor, being a
bog standard multisync, doesn't go that low, making them unplayable.
- steve
PS - Perhaps, one could claim, with enough messing around and disabling
of the proper things, they could be made to work. Sorry, wrong answer...
John Pat Corigliano
Steve Koren <ko...@hpsrk.fc.hp.com> wrote:
>
>"Björn Hagström" <ping...@ntostud.mh.se> wrote:
>
>> Take a look at team17's ab3dse.
>
>I tried. I downloaded about 3 or 4 of these texture mapping demos from
>Aminet last night - AB3D demo, something called Fears, etc. Every
>single one of them crashed my system (I have a stock 4000/040/25/GVP
>Spectrum/CyberGfx - nothing even remotely exceptional here).
Too true! I tried the AB3D demo and could only get it to run if I
re-booted in PAL with "No-Startup". What a drag! I don't mean
to sound like a weenie, but I also have a PC and can run DOOMII,
Descent, and Fury3 right from Win95. If these three games were done
on an Amiga, would they run on my A4000 w/Picasso from WB? Even though,
as a programmer, I think WB is much better than Win95, it's kinda nice
to be able to put Borland C++ to sleep for a while and take a break to
play DOOM without re-booting!
I know that C2P conversion forces many games to "bang the hardware"
and that PC games do not have this overhead. However, there are too
many games out there that don't use the OS when there is no good
reason not to.
Later,
--
John Corigliano jco...@strauss.udel.edu
Computer and Information Science University of Delaware
--
"Never drive a car when your dead." - Tom Waits
Björn Hagström
>
>"Björn Hagström" <ping...@ntostud.mh.se> wrote:
>
>> Take a look at team17's ab3dse.
>
>I tried. I downloaded about 3 or 4 of these texture mapping demos from
>Aminet last night - AB3D demo, something called Fears, etc. Every
>single one of them crashed my system (I have a stock 4000/040/25/GVP
>Spectrum/CyberGfx - nothing even remotely exceptional here).
>
>more. Applications invariably work on my machine. Games invariably do
>not. My machine is not new in any regard. One would think game
>developers would have figured it out by now, but I guess not. The one
>or two games which don't crash immediately (such as Hired Guns) always
>assume they're talking to a 15 KHz screen mode, and my monitor, being a
>bog standard multisync, doesn't go that low, making them unplayable.
You'd better try some non demo games then.
/BH
Zsolt Szabo
Stefano Agostinelli <ago...@pn.itnet.it> wrote:
> Why do you want this?Breathless actually is much better than Doom,and
> imho also better than DoomII.
Would you care to elaborate on this? DOOM has network play, support for
high quality stereo MIDI sound, stereo sound effects, non-orthogonal
walls, great mouse/joystick/keyboard control, and mostly, very intricate,
playable levels (DOOM II). Can't really say any of this for Breathless. I
only saw the demo, but generally the actual game never does include that
many more features than the demo anyway.
--
__
-/_)_ ( _ __) __)__
_/ \(_)_)_)_/(_/_/(-________________________________________________________
K_Posa...@toschibo.ruhr.de
Stefano Agostinelli wrote "Re^1:DOOM with Breathless engine?":
SA>> inferior Wolfenstein style raycasting engine while Doom,Ab3d,Gloom,TD57,Ever-
SA>> thingelse4d uses the mucho grando superior BSPtree rendering engine.
SA>
SA> I'm not sure but Breathless uses BSPtree!
I dont know, but when you shoot with the DeathEngine, all the walls at
the bullets way are enlighted. Is this raycasting oder BSPtree?
SA> Cheerio
SA>Stefano
--
Bye! Kai
Windows '95 = Mac '89 = Amiga '85
Alex Amsel
>
> : Then you are in the vast minority. I don`t think there has been
> : any game to rival Doom on any computer in terms of gameplay.
> : The thing was, they didn`t have to rush Doom out in time for
> : christmas or to beat other, superior games to the shops, so
> : they took their time and perfected the gameplay, rather than
> : shoving out an initially pretty but ultimately septic dribble
> : of a game.
>
Same to you !(IMHO)
> doom's gameplay is laughably simple and putting in a save option means
Its brilliantly simple - its superb. Its also extremely well executed. I
spent a lot of time examing how the overall system worked, as I`m sure
Andy did. If you look closely you will find the niceties that make it so
good. They just got so many little things set perfectly.
> they had to make some bits of it simply IMPOSSIBLE the first time
around
> which as far as i am concerned is TOTAL CRAP. I had a PC in the house
for
> the 3 months straight after i got gloom and i didn't even play Doom or
DoomII
Not everyone can like it. But I much much prefer Doom to Gloom or any
other clone I have played (Hexen comes close).
> once! i'd already played them a few times and decided that they were
rubbish
> with pretty graphics. In fact the only Doomesque game i played for
any length
> of time was ROTT and that's only to see the flying eyeballs!!!!
>
> honestly, the only reason doom was such a success was that it's the
first
> peecee arcade type game with any playability at all.... pathetic isnt
it....
No way. It honestly is the most playable. If you look for a complex game
in it, then you won`t like it. And it is all a matter of opinion of
course :)
See Ya
-----------------------------------------------------------------
| Alex Amsel : Silltunna Software Lead Programmer : Black Magic |
| XTremeRacing 1x1 TMapping and Stunning Gameplay on AGA Amigas |
| Al...@teeth.demon.co.uk | Steve Bull is Back | *PWEIPWEIPWEI* |
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Phil Shimmin
Phil Shimmin
|> j...@oasis.icl.co.uk (James Allen) wrote:
|> >Stefano Agostinelli (ago...@pn.itnet.it) wrote:
|> >: Thomas Karlsen wrote in comp.sys.amiga.misc about "DOOM with Breathless
|> >: engine?":
|> >: >
|> >: > It would be possible to "port" doom to the Amiga with the Breathless
|> >: > engine, wouldn't it?
|> >
|>
|> No. Absolutely not. Impossible. Can`t be done. Do I have to
|> make myself clearer? Breathless uses an outdated inflexible
|> fears-inspired cheese-bucket of an engine and couldn`t do a
|> Gloom level, never mind a Doom level.
|>
|> >: imho also better than DoomII.
|>
|> any game to rival Doom on any computer in terms of gameplay.
|> The thing was, they didn`t have to rush Doom out in time for
|> christmas or to beat other, superior games to the shops, so
|> they took their time and perfected the gameplay, rather than
|> shoving out an initially pretty but ultimately septic dribble
|> of a game.
|>
|>
|> trundling around a drab, unimaginative prison cell on a
|> unicycle with a wobbly wheel wishing you`d brought your glasses
|> so the other inmates wouldn`t look so blurred.
|>
|> >to World 2 Arena 3 last night at the graphics made me breathless. The
|> >lightings effects are just so good and theres this brilliant part
|>
|> where you press three buttons simultaneously and play something
|> else instead
|>
|> >As the platform descends you have to use the look up and down facility to
|>
|> fire twenty feet over the heads of the enemy who then die,
|> presumably of surprise.
|>
|> >The only downside to this game is that you cant save your position to
|> >disk. You just get a code each world which means that even if you get
|> >halfway through the 5th areana before using all your lives you still
|> >have to play from the 1st areana the next time you play. I really hate
|> >this and would much prefer a save system like in Doom or at the very least
|> >a code after completing an areana. Saying that though you all know which
|> >one I`d rather be playing, even without a save system.
|> >
|> >--
|>
|>
|> Andy Clitheroe.
|>
|>
no-one else is worthy. The way everyone was going on about Breathless I thought
it was good or something. Orthogonal bloody walls? And how can it match up to
Andy's lighting effects. Breathless is a Skoda with racing trim, and I have no
doubt that AB3D2 will be .... er something much better (fill in the blank if you
know anything about cars please)
Phil
Stephen Lewis
: The thing was, they didn`t have to rush Doom out in time for
: christmas or to beat other, superior games to the shops, so
: they took their time and perfected the gameplay, rather than
: shoving out an initially pretty but ultimately septic dribble
: of a game.
utter bollocks! (IMHO)
doom's gameplay is laughably simple and putting in a save option means that
they had to make some bits of it simply IMPOSSIBLE the first time around
which as far as i am concerned is TOTAL CRAP. I had a PC in the house for
the 3 months straight after i got gloom and i didn't even play Doom or DoomII
once! i'd already played them a few times and decided that they were rubbish
with pretty graphics. In fact the only Doomesque game i played for any length
of time was ROTT and that's only to see the flying eyeballs!!!!
honestly, the only reason doom was such a success was that it's the first
peecee arcade type game with any playability at all.... pathetic isnt it....
--
Wally aka Mr Staypuft aka Stephen Lewis etc etc etc....
Any opinions expressed by me are mine and as such are subject to change
without any notice and may or may not be complete bollocks...
No warranties express or implied apply.
Hans-Joerg Frieden
: No way, dude. Even id's later games (Heretic, Hexen), which are
: technically superior, aren't as fun as Doom. Doom has the PERFECT
: subject matter and imagery. I *LOVE* creeping through computer
: rooms with a shotgun, blasting imps. What could be better? :-)
_and_ having a storyline behind the whole stuff? I never played Doom
longer that the first episode, after that there came the "haven't I seen
this before"-phase, and it removed it from the drive. I like a bit for
the brain, too...
: Yog-Sothoth Neblod Zin,
Aren't we all supposed to worship shubb-internet???
Jan Syrén
>> : trundling around a drab, unimaginative prison cell on a
>> : unicycle with a wobbly wheel wishing you`d brought your glasses
>> : so the other inmates wouldn`t look so blurred.
>> off your backsides to go and write Gloom and AB3DSE.
>> : else instead
>> : fire twenty feet over the heads of the enemy who then die,
>> : presumably of surprise.
>> But yet if you fire one mm BELOW them you miss.
>I'm getting worried here. I thought the Breathless engine was good. I just
>ordered the game from Power for full price so as not to wait any longer. But
>will there be fixes to things like the collision detection? And being
>commercial, will it wait until a Breathless 2, and cost the full price again?
>Surely it is still a fun game to play, and not TOO tedious?
They doesen't support the 060 at all, if you play in lowres with a very small
screen, then you might get more than 2 fps.
I know this sounds crazy but it went a lot faster on my old 030 at 50MHz with
a fpu at 50MHz, and now I just got my blizzard 1260 with 16Mb and they are not
even playable. AB3D work fine thou, and I hope they will include some 060
routines in their new engine.
And if someone knows how to get more speed out of breathless (demo), then
please let me know how.
The patch included with the 1260 just emulates a fpu wich is not very help-
full in games, they would need a 030 patch, or a better engine (team 17 and
silltunna software are the only one who succeded with this), and in extreme
neet racing demot is there a included engine for 040/060 or 020/030, and I
think that more developers should do like this, then more people would buy
their products and more people would upgrade to a faster processor to gain
more speed, even if they just play games (take a look at the pc market), and
not only the ones who are working with heavy applications like raytracing or
similar.
PS
I am waiting for AB3D2 with a great hope for a good engine
DS
__ _____
__ / / / ___/ * Jan Syrén
/ /_/ / __ /__ / * Email m-1...@mailbox.swipnet.se
/_____/ /_//____/ * Amiga is the choise of a creative generation.
Amiga 1200/060 16Mb fast 1.7Gb HD
john enger
: I hope people will think so.
: Inncidentally, despite the rave reviews and popularity on the
: net, Ab3D has sold a little over 10,000 copies in total, on
: CD32 and A1200 combined. Seems the pirates are not yet ready to
: stop choking the life out of the Amiga.
I think perhaps AB3D2 may have something to do with that... at one point it
was suggested that a new superwhizzo version would appear soon after
christmas, and many people decided to wait for the new version.
BTW, FWIW I bought the original, and will buy v2 as well, just as soon as
it is available. (Do I *really* have to wait 'til *april?* ;)
========================= john....@bbsrc.ac.uk =====================///===
A1200, 40 Mhz '030, 2+4Mb RAM, 80Mb HD, 1960 MSync Monitor. ///
-------------------------------------------------------------------\XX/-----
Porter Woodward
>
>In article: <4dhcfj$7...@ozramp.ozramp.net.au>
>wa...@ozramp.ozramp.net.au (Stephen Lewis) writes:
>>
>> : any game to rival Doom on any computer in terms of gameplay.
>> : The thing was, they didn`t have to rush Doom out in time for
>> : christmas or to beat other, superior games to the shops, so
>> : they took their time and perfected the gameplay, rather than
>> : shoving out an initially pretty but ultimately septic dribble
>> : of a game.
>>
>> utter bollocks! (IMHO)
>
>
>> doom's gameplay is laughably simple and putting in a save option means
>
>spent a lot of time examing how the overall system worked, as I`m sure
>Andy did. If you look closely you will find the niceties that make it so
>good. They just got so many little things set perfectly.
>
I have to agree. DOOMs gameplay is very well thought out. It's not entirely my cup o' tea though. I
like to play games that are a tiny bit less action intensive, and have a bit more of an RPG feel to
them. Doom is esentially a 3-D version of Space Invaders, or Berserk (if any of you can remember
back that far, I'm just about carbon-dating myself)
Alien Breed 3D came very close to DOOM in terms of it's playability. The gameplay very closely
matches Doom's, even if the graphics resolutions weren't up to snuff. It did have a couple of
improvements on the "Game Physics" though. Sound changes when you are underwater, a "real"
three-dimensional world (not a 2.5 dimensional BSP tree). And, considering the speed it runs at on
my A1200/o30...
>> they had to make some bits of it simply IMPOSSIBLE the first time
>around
>> which as far as i am concerned is TOTAL CRAP. I had a PC in the house
>for
>> the 3 months straight after i got gloom and i didn't even play Doom or
>DoomII
>
>Not everyone can like it. But I much much prefer Doom to Gloom or any
>other clone I have played (Hexen comes close).
>
>> once! i'd already played them a few times and decided that they were
>rubbish
>> with pretty graphics. In fact the only Doomesque game i played for
>any length
>> of time was ROTT and that's only to see the flying eyeballs!!!!
- Porter
Phil Shimmin
Oh yeah, and I forgot to say - TAKE YOUR TIME ANDY!! MAKE IT PURFICK 'N' POLISHED
Sorry guys, I'll try and be more coherent next time - I've had very little sleep
recently.
Oh and Andy, I'd love it if you'd sort out some kind of Playstation version of
AB3D too, that'd be awesome. But don't stop coding for the Amiga purlease. btw it
might interest people here who have been dissing playstations that I made a post
in a PSX newsgroup saying that I'd noticed that a lot of people seemed to have
both a PSX and an amiga and I got a huge positive response in the group and by
e-mail, so we're kind of on your side and don't be nasty to us :-(. I don't see
the Amiga and PSX as true competitors. I have the two for different things, as do
a lot of people it seems.
John Hendrikx
JM> No way, dude. Even id's later games (Heretic, Hexen), which are
JM> technically superior, aren't as fun as Doom. Doom has the PERFECT
Heretic technically superior to DOOM? You gotta be kidding. Heretic is exactly
like DOOM (same engine) but without Triple-buffering.
Grtz John
-- Via Xenolink 1.985B3, XenolinkUUCP 1.1
Stefano Agostinelli
engine?":
> So sorry, Breed 3D 2 is still in development. Look at it this
> way: I had AB3D1 running in full screen 1x1 in a couple of days
> , and I could have released `AB3D Deluxe` or `Fearless` in time
> for Christmas, and it looked better than Breathless even then.
Oh I love AB3D too! I can't wait AB3D2 to run on my gfx card!
> Screenshots will be turning up V.SOON indeed in magazines and
> on the web page. These are AB3D2 screenshots, not full screen
> 1x1 AB3D1 shots like the last ones.
>
I've seen Breed2 demo pics and they look incredibly good!
On what resolution were they snapped?
> I hope people will think so.
> Inncidentally, despite the rave reviews and popularity on the
> net, Ab3D has sold a little over 10,000 copies in total, on
> CD32 and A1200 combined. Seems the pirates are not yet ready to
> stop choking the life out of the Amiga.
Hope Breed2 will sell better,after all it can run in a larger number
of Amigas,isn't it?
> As soon as I`ve made one.
Yes please!
Stephen Lewis
: improvements on the "Game Physics" though. Sound changes when you are underwater, a "real"
: three-dimensional world (not a 2.5 dimensional BSP tree). And, considering the speed it runs at on
: my A1200/o30...
: >> they had to make some bits of it simply IMPOSSIBLE the first time
: >around
: >> which as far as i am concerned is TOTAL CRAP. I had a PC in the house
: >for
: >> the 3 months straight after i got gloom and i didn't even play Doom or
: >DoomII
i noticed noone commented on this, does anyone know why a save option was
included instead of using codes??? because the totally crap level design
meant it had to be, honestly you're entitled to like it but in my opinion it's
not sexily subtle simple gameplay, it's just simple gameplay because it was
a pc game and in terms of arcade type stuff they don't expect anything else :)
Jason Hutchens
>AB3D too, that'd be awesome. But don't stop coding for the Amiga purlease. btw it
>might interest people here who have been dissing playstations that I made a post
>in a PSX newsgroup saying that I'd noticed that a lot of people seemed to have
>both a PSX and an amiga and I got a huge positive response in the group and by
>e-mail, so we're kind of on your side and don't be nasty to us :-(. I don't see
>the Amiga and PSX as true competitors. I have the two for different things, as do
>a lot of people it seems.
Now if only we could hook our Amigas to our Playstations and do some
serious hacking! I wanna see PSX demos written by Amiga demo coders!
I want PSX freeware available on the net! It's not fair, goddammit!
J.
--
******** Mr. Jason L Hutchens *********
* AMIGA/Ev3.2e/TMBG/IF/PS-X/JJJ/3DO/WWW * E-mail: hu...@ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au
* Visit my home page to talk to MegaHAL * http://ciips.ee.uwa.edu.au/~hutch
*****************************************
Philipp Boerker
>Inncidentally, despite the rave reviews and popularity on the
>net, Ab3D has sold a little over 10,000 copies in total, on
>CD32 and A1200 combined. Seems the pirates are not yet ready to
>stop choking the life out of the Amiga.
>Andy Clitheroe.
Then you should check some so called friends of yours:
A buggy version of AB3D was offered to me even before it was released!
And it had to make the way from Britain to Germany BTW.
Greets,
Phil.
Ian Wilson
: I hope people will think so.
: Inncidentally, despite the rave reviews and popularity on the
: net, Ab3D has sold a little over 10,000 copies in total, on
: CD32 and A1200 combined. Seems the pirates are not yet ready to
: stop choking the life out of the Amiga.
This is very sad news for the Amiga :(
--
/\_/\
(0 0) Chaos is what people call reality when they
----oOO--( )--OOo-------- don't understand.
|___|___|(_)|___|___|___|_____
__|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|_____ E-Mail: i...@iwilson.demon.co.uk
|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| PGP Key available on request.
Andy Clitheroe
>I think perhaps AB3D2 may have something to do with that... at one point it
>was suggested that a new superwhizzo version would appear soon after
>christmas, and many people decided to wait for the new version.
>
>BTW, FWIW I bought the original, and will buy v2 as well, just as soon as
>it is available. (Do I *really* have to wait 'til *april?* ;)
>
Unfortunately, yes. The editor alone is a huge undertaking, not
to mention making the new game play well.
Andy Clitheroe
Robert Owen Raine
ko...@hpsrk.fc.hp.com (Steve Koren) wrote:
>
>"Björn Hagström" <ping...@ntostud.mh.se> wrote:
>
>> You'd better try some non demo games then.
>
>c.s.a.marketplace, because not a single one of them worked on my
>machine. Not one. :-(
Then you should stop trying to run Amiga games on your clone machine. ;^)
\|/
@ @
------------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo--------------
Only Amiga Makes it Happen Bob Raine
The computer for the creative mind Michigan State University
Make Up Your Own Mind Physics Astronomy Dept.
Amiga / The Alternative Ra...@msupa.pa.msu.edu
Escom: " ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE "
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kent Polk
> In article <oj64tts...@hpsrk.fc.hp.com>,
> ko...@hpsrk.fc.hp.com (Steve Koren) wrote:
> >
> >Been there, done that. I just sold about 35 commercial game programs on
> >c.s.a.marketplace, because not a single one of them worked on my
> >machine. Not one. :-(
>
> Then you should stop trying to run Amiga games on your clone machine. ;^)
Steve's not far off. I quite trying out games 3 years ago because none of
them work on any of my most-used (accellerated) Amigas.
--
Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute (will disavow any knowledge of me)
Internet : ke...@eaenki.nde.swri.edu
(DoF #) : Official DoF Squid Motto: "Ride Hard/Crash Gently"
Steve Koren
"Björn Hagström" <ping...@ntostud.mh.se> wrote:
> You'd better try some non demo games then.
Been there, done that. I just sold about 35 commercial game programs on
c.s.a.marketplace, because not a single one of them worked on my
machine. Not one. :-(
- steve
Massimo Mancini
[...]
>I tried. I downloaded about 3 or 4 of these texture mapping demos from
>Aminet last night - AB3D demo, something called Fears, etc. Every
>single one of them crashed my system (I have a stock 4000/040/25/GVP
>Spectrum/CyberGfx - nothing even remotely exceptional here).
NOTHING Exceptional ???
First you`re using a 68040... Even if it`s becoming more popular, it`s
still very unstable combined with games/demo software.
THen you`re using a graphics card... If your so-called crashes mean that
your workbench is freezed after you try to start any game or demo, then
it`s just they don`t open a screen the way a promotor can handle it... the
game/demo often runs in the normal amiga mode and you can`t see anything.
>Somehow I am not impressed. This is why I don't buy Amiga games any
>more. Applications invariably work on my machine. Games invariably do
>not. My machine is not new in any regard. One would think game
You MUST make anything wrong...
I played MANY games on my A4000/040, including several CD32 CDs which I
prefer!
Even now, with the 68060, several games I tried (I didn`t try many, yet)
worked perfectly - and this isn`t that normal as the 68060 normally causes
crashes if it`s treated like a 030/040 because of some incompatibilities.
>developers would have figured it out by now, but I guess not. The one
>or two games which don't crash immediately (such as Hired Guns) always
>assume they're talking to a 15 KHz screen mode, and my monitor, being a
>bog standard multisync, doesn't go that low, making them unplayable.
If you`re talking about "bootgames" and that you don`t own any kind of
scandoubler/flickerfixer then WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ? That buying a Multisync
makes any game automagically run in DBLPAL ?
> - steve
>PS - Perhaps, one could claim, with enough messing around and disabling
>of the proper things, they could be made to work. Sorry, wrong answer...
There`s a tool which allows workbench-startable games to open a specific
screen to run on. This bypasses the main problem with gfx cards I mentioned
above.
--
_/\_____/\_/\ ____/\ ___
\ \ \ X /\ X / A4ooo/o6o * ISDN
/ //\ \ \ \ \ 34MB * 1GB * CDR
/ / / / / X \/ X \ CV64 * CyberSCSI
/ /_/_/__/\ \_/ \ \_/ \ \A12oo/o3o * CD32
\_/~~~~~~~~~\_/~~~\_/~~~~\_/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
EMail:Massimo...@rhein-neckar.de
Björn Hagström
So you are saying that it won't change? When will you be able to buy a new
game ? When the demos starts to work for you ?
/BH
Zsolt Szabo
John Hendrikx <john.h...@grafix.xs4all.nl> wrote:
> JM> No way, dude. Even id's later games (Heretic, Hexen), which are
> JM> technically superior, aren't as fun as Doom. Doom has the PERFECT
>
>Heretic technically superior to DOOM? You gotta be kidding. Heretic is exactly
>like DOOM (same engine) but without Triple-buffering.
Actually, Heretic does have some enhancements over DOOM. I can't list
them all, but it has this weird hurricane that's not just a simple
object. Also, you can fly up and down and also look up and
down--something you couldn't in DOOM. There is other stuff but I don't
remember it anymore.
UNREGISTERED VERSION
>: any game to rival Doom on any computer in terms of gameplay.
>Doom.
I agree 110%!!!
Doom is VERY nice too play...but after ten minutes it becomes boring.
(at least DOOM 2, haven't played DOOM 1 for ages...)
All of my pezeowning mates had too stop critisising the GFX [of AB3D 1],
when they played the game and realized how nice and smooth it was to play!
PS. I know a earlier "elItE-dudE", and he have 10000s of games... but only one
of them he has bought : AB3D!
(he thought it was AMAZING to play!)
-- Rustybrain -- Sigop AMIGAvsPC at Global Issue (tlf.56599956) CALL NOW!
Stefano Agostinelli
engine?":
> >I tried. I downloaded about 3 or 4 of these texture mapping demos from
> >Aminet last night - AB3D demo, something called Fears, etc. Every
> >single one of them crashed my system (I have a stock 4000/040/25/GVP
> >Spectrum/CyberGfx - nothing even remotely exceptional here).
> NOTHING Exceptional ???
>
> First you`re using a 68040... Even if it`s becoming more popular, it`s
> still very unstable combined with games/demo software.
Well the fact it is doesn't mean it should be this way!Game/demo coders
should realize that out there exist a moltitude of Amigas, not just only
A1200s.
Only in recent months I was able to run some new Doom clones on my
A3000+CGX card (Nemac,Gloom deluxe demo,Breathless demo).
> THen you`re using a graphics card... If your so-called crashes mean that
> your workbench is freezed after you try to start any game or demo, then
> it`s just they don`t open a screen the way a promotor can handle it... the
> game/demo often runs in the normal amiga mode and you can`t see anything.
Again this is what I would call bad coding.
> Even now, with the 68060, several games I tried (I didn`t try many, yet)
> worked perfectly - and this isn`t that normal as the 68060 normally causes
> crashes if it`s treated like a 030/040 because of some incompatibilities.
Many != All
However someone said that most of Doom clones are slower on a 060 than
a 040!Again bad coding.
> >assume they're talking to a 15 KHz screen mode, and my monitor, being a
> >bog standard multisync, doesn't go that low, making them unplayable.
> If you`re talking about "bootgames" and that you don`t own any kind of
> scandoubler/flickerfixer then WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ? That buying a Multisync
> makes any game automagically run in DBLPAL ?
Simply "bootgames" should not exist.Every game should be run from WB just
any other program.
> >PS - Perhaps, one could claim, with enough messing around and disabling
> >of the proper things, they could be made to work. Sorry, wrong answer...
> There`s a tool which allows workbench-startable games to open a specific
> screen to run on. This bypasses the main problem with gfx cards I mentioned
> above.
Only a kludge,the problem lie in the game/demo coders head.
John Hendrikx
>> JM> No way, dude. Even id's later games (Heretic, Hexen), which are
>> JM> technically superior, aren't as fun as Doom. Doom has the PERFECT
>> Heretic technically superior to DOOM? You gotta be kidding. Heretic is
>> exactly like DOOM (same engine) but without Triple-buffering.
ZS> Actually, Heretic does have some enhancements over DOOM. I can't list
ZS> them all, but it has this weird hurricane that's not just a simple
ZS> object. Also, you can fly up and down and also look up and
ZS> down--something you couldn't in DOOM. There is other stuff but I don't
ZS> remember it anymore.
This is just no-brainer stuff which could have been added to the DOOM-engine in
no time had they -thought- of it at the time. What bothers me however is the
lack of triple-buffering which makes screen-updates rather ugly when you turn
left/right.
In any case, Heretic is certainly not 'technically superior' to DOOM as was
stated in the original post.
John Hendrikx
>> I hope people will think so.
>> Inncidentally, despite the rave reviews and popularity on the net, Ab3D
>> has sold a little over 10,000 copies in total, on CD32 and A1200
>> combined. Seems the pirates are not yet ready to stop choking the life
>> out of the Amiga.
IW> This is very sad news for the Amiga :(
It maybe shows that Amiga people aren't stupid. They look at DOOM, then look
at AB3d. They see that Ab3D is blocky, and the gfx nearly unrecognisable.
Sure some people will like it, but just because there ain't nothing better, or
because they UNDERSTAND why it is so blocky (ie, their Amiga can't handle it).
Most people however will want to see DOOM in 1x1 320x256 running at 50 FPS on
their A1200, and as AB3d of course can't ever hope to do this on a standard
1200 those people didn't buy it.
John Hendrikx
>> I tried. I downloaded about 3 or 4 of these texture mapping demos from
>> Aminet last night - AB3D demo, something called Fears, etc. Every single
>> one of them crashed my system (I have a stock 4000/040/25/GVP
>> Spectrum/CyberGfx - nothing even remotely exceptional here).
MM> NOTHING Exceptional ???
It is sad to see that there are still people who consider configs like that as
'exceptional'.
MM> First you`re using a 68040... Even if it`s becoming more popular, it`s
MM> still very unstable combined with games/demo software.
No, you've got that the wrong way around. *Games* and *demos* are the ones
being unstable with the 68040. You make it sound like it is the 040's fault,
not the c0d3rz who wrote the software in the first place.
>> Somehow I am not impressed. This is why I don't buy Amiga games any more.
>> Applications invariably work on my machine. Games invariably do not. My
>> machine is not new in any regard. One would think game
MM> You MUST make anything wrong... I played MANY games on my A4000/040,
MM> including several CD32 CDs which I prefer!
Sure, if you take the effort to disable caches, and put back VBR and crap like
that you might actually get it to work. Luckily this only effects games and
demos -- *REAL* software just works as it should.
>> two games which don't crash immediately (such as Hired Guns) always assume
>> they're talking to a 15 KHz screen mode, and my monitor, being a bog
>> standard multisync, doesn't go that low, making them unplayable.
MM> If you`re talking about "bootgames" and that you don`t own any kind of
MM> scandoubler/flickerfixer then WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ? That buying a
MM> Multisync makes any game automagically run in DBLPAL ?
Well, I guess if <fill-in-any-OS-friendly-software-here> does it, then why
can't a game/demo do it? Just lazy I guess, or maybe you think it is normal
that you have to purchase extra hardware to run a badly programmed game --
ridiculous.
>> - steve
>> PS - Perhaps, one could claim, with enough messing around and disabling of
>> the proper things, they could be made to work. Sorry, wrong answer...
MM> There`s a tool which allows workbench-startable games to open a
MM> specific screen to run on. This bypasses the main problem with gfx cards
MM> I mentioned above.
May I remind you that there are games/demos which crash on absolutely any
different or generally 'unknown' hardware?
A simple kickstart upgrade makes them crash, or having no memory at $c00000, or
the fact that you also have FastRAM, or a 68010 with VBR somewhere other than
$0, or a 68020 with caches enabled, or a 68040 with CopyBack, or the presence
or lack of an AGA chipset, and there are dozens more 'obscure' reasons as to
why games and demos crash (upgrading from the Fat Agnus to the Big Agnus also
crashed lots of games and demos, try disabling that with degrader)
Games and demos are the problem, not the machine.
Steve Koren
"Björn Hagström" <ping...@ntostud.mh.se> wrote:
> >c.s.a.marketplace, because not a single one of them worked on my
> >machine. Not one. :-(
> So you are saying that it won't change? When will you be able to buy a new
> game ? When the demos starts to work for you ?
I dunno, Björn - I hope it will change. Right now, my default
assumption is "it won't work", unless it is a PD game, in which case I
can assume "there is a tiny but non-zero chance". I'd like to get to a
point where my default assumption could be "it will work". In order to
get there, though, Amiga games programmers are going to have to change
from their historical approach. Hardware banging is not going to cut
it. Making assumptions about my machine is not going to cut it either.
- steve
Steve Koren
Massimo...@rhein-neckar.de (Massimo Mancini) wrote:
> NOTHING Exceptional ???
Nope. You can try, but you're not gonna convince me that my 4000, which
I've been using for a well over 3 *years*, should cause all these games
to crash and burn.
The problem is, they don't even try. Never mind real time action games
for a moment - even commercial games with more or less static displays,
like war games, or turn-based overhead view RPGs, tend to assume 15 Khz
320x200x32 color displays, and lord knows what they're doing to obtain
system resources - just taking them it appears. Many of them simply
crash on a 68040 - which is not only a dog slow CPU by today's
standards, but a positively ancient one. If these games can't handle
ancient, slow hardware, what hope is there for the future of Amiga
games?
> scandoubler/flickerfixer then WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ? That buying a
I just expect that if I pay $40+ for a commercial game, it will run on a
fairly vanilla configuration such as mine. The Amiga deserves better
than this.
I just hope that if AT can really make the PowerAmiga thing happen
(which in itself will be difficult), the games situation will turn
around, and we'll get nice, system compliant games that one can buy with
some reasonable confidence that they'll actually work. The Amiga has
had some very innovative games in its day, but its very depressing to
see the state of the market now.
- steve
Jan Syrén
>Massimo...@rhein-neckar.de (Massimo Mancini) wrote:
>> NOTHING Exceptional ???
> - steve
What's the mayor difference between 060 and 040, because I can play most of my
games on the 060 ,not so many doom-clones thou :( , but that depends only on
the programers who are optimizing their code for 020/030, and in these
processors is there some instuctions wich not exists in the 040/060, so they
must be emulated, wich takes a lot longer to perform or they might even make
your computer say hello to the Guru.
So what gamemakers should do is:
1. Don't optimize at all. (then every processor should work)
2. Optimize for several processors. 1 opt 020/030 and 1 opt 040/060
I would prefer nr 2.
__ _____
__ / / / ___/ * Jan Syrén
/ /_/ / __ /__ / * Email m-1...@mailbox.swipnet.se
/_____/ /_//____/ * Amiga is the choise of a creative generation.
Amiga 1200/060 16Mb fast 1.6Gb HD
Mat Bettinson
PS> Oh and Andy, I'd love it if you'd sort out some kind of Playstation
PS> version of AB3D too, that'd be awesome. But don't stop coding for the
Great idea.
PS> Amiga purlease. btw it might interest people here who have been dissing
PS> playstations that I made a post in a PSX newsgroup saying that I'd
PS> noticed that a lot of people seemed to have both a PSX and an amiga and
I know a lot of amiga owners who own playstations as well, myself included.
PS> I got a huge positive response in the group and by e-mail, so we're kind
PS> of on your side and don't be nasty to us :-(. I don't see the Amiga and
PS> PSX as true competitors. I have the two for different things, as do a
PS> lot of people it seems.
Exactlly.
/+ ant...@backyard.demon.co.uk - 2:254/255.0
/-|nthony Brice - BackYard BBS Sysop +44 (181) 4242065
... My Go this amn keyboar oesn't have any 's.
David Packham
>Hey look, on 17 Jan 96 Phil was heard mumbling to All:
>
> PS> Oh and Andy, I'd love it if you'd sort out some kind of Playstation
> PS> version of AB3D too, that'd be awesome. But don't stop coding for the
>
>Great idea.
>
> PS> Amiga purlease. btw it might interest people here who have been dissing
> PS> playstations that I made a post in a PSX newsgroup saying that I'd
> PS> noticed that a lot of people seemed to have both a PSX and an amiga and
>
>I know a lot of amiga owners who own playstations as well, myself included.
>
> PS> I got a huge positive response in the group and by e-mail, so we're kind
> PS> of on your side and don't be nasty to us :-(. I don't see the Amiga and
> PS> PSX as true competitors. I have the two for different things, as do a
> PS> lot of people it seems.
>
>Exactlly.
>
Exactly what Mat? All this would do is serve to further dilute the sales
of the Amiga version since the `many` playstation owning Amiga owners
would opt for the best version. (And lets face it, it`d be on the latter
format by some way). It may be a great idea for you, but tell me why it
is in any way beneficial for the Amiga games scene?
Dave
Peter Bornhall
PS>> Oh and Andy, I'd love it if you'd sort out some kind of Playstation
PS>> version of AB3D too, that'd be awesome. But don't stop coding for the
aca> Great idea.
Yup, I agree. AB3D (or AB3D2) would be a definite "MUST-BUY" for my
Playstation, that's for sure...:)
PS>> Amiga purlease. btw it might interest people here who have been dissing
PS>> playstations that I made a post in a PSX newsgroup saying that I'd
PS>> noticed that a lot of people seemed to have both a PSX and an amiga
PS>> and
aca> I know a lot of amiga owners who own playstations as well, myself
aca> included.
Best of both worlds, eh? Me too...;)))
/\ _
/\ \// Peter Bornhall born...@karkis.canit.se
/_ \// -======================================================-
/_\\//_\ Amiga, boldly going where no computer has gone before!
Peter Bornhall
>> PS> I got a huge positive response in the group and by e-mail, so we're
>> kind PS> of on your side and don't be nasty to us :-(. I don't see the
>> Amiga and PS> PSX as true competitors. I have the two for different
>> things, as do a PS> lot of people it seems.
>> Exactlly.
ggd> Exactly what Mat? All this would do is serve to further dilute the
ggd> sales of the Amiga version since the `many` playstation owning Amiga
ggd> owners would opt for the best version. (And lets face it, it`d be on
ggd> the latter format by some way). It may be a great idea for you, but
ggd> tell me why it is in any way beneficial for the Amiga games scene?
Look at it this way. How long is the life-span of a console? "Actively"
about 2 years, then it's just not state-of-the-art anymore. If AT can make a
PPC Amiga in 1997, then you can count on that it can push a few pixels as well
as produce quality sound. You see, a computer is NEVER the same thing as a
console. True, the PSX/Saturn/Ultra64/3D0/etc. doesn't help the Amiga games
scene, but ask yourself WHY even a part-time gamesplayer (like myself) would
pay up to more than double the price for a computer like the A1200, which
clearly isn't up to current hardware specs. IMHO, the PSX/etc. doesn't compete
with the Amiga, because if you buy an Amiga today, your main reason is probably
not gaming. It's an added bonus.
For the near future, I can't see a reason why the consoles and computers
couldn't co-exist. IF the consoles are threatening something, it's the PC's.
OTOH, some games just don't "work" on a console, and that's one of the reasons
some people choose the computer instead of a console for gaming.
John Millington
: Then you should stop trying to run Amiga games on your clone machine. ;^)
How ironic that my Amiga isn't Amiga compatable. The only way I can play
games on my Amiga is to run the *Mac* version on my Mac clone (A3000 with
ShapeShifter).
I cannot and will not support Amiga games developers until this
situation changes. Any Amiga developer that directly hits the hardware
is shooting himself in the foot -- no wait -- in the _head_.
Hm... here's another way to put it:
MUI runs on my machine
Mac games run on my machine
Many Amiga games do not
Ergo, the MUI programmers and the Mac game programmers are far more
competant, intelligent, and skilled than the Amiga game programmers.
Nephren Ka Nai Hadoth,
John Millington
Storm
: Robert Owen Raine (ra...@msupa.pa.msu.edu) wrote:
: : Then you should stop trying to run Amiga games on your clone machine. ;^)
: How ironic that my Amiga isn't Amiga compatable. The only way I can play
: games on my Amiga is to run the *Mac* version on my Mac clone (A3000 with
: ShapeShifter).
: Hm... here's another way to put it:
: Mac games run on my machine
: Many Amiga games do not
: Ergo, the MUI programmers and the Mac game programmers are far more
: competant, intelligent, and skilled than the Amiga game programmers.
No, Ergo, your machine is a Mac. It has the same CPU as a Mac, is running
Mac operating system, and has a generic graphics card like a Mac. Therefore,
it is not an Amiga, it is a Mac clone.
-- ______________________________
\_/ "\/\/\__"\/ "\/ "\/\__"\_/
Storm / Cydonia / / / / / / / / / / / / ' / Packing class
/ /\/> / / / / / / / / / /__ & kicking arse!
(coder) \__/ \_/\__/\__/\/\/\/\/\/ \/
Alan L.M. Buxey
: Then you should check some so called friends of yours:
: A buggy version of AB3D was offered to me even before it was released!
: And it had to make the way from Britain to Germany BTW.
i agree! all these coding houses complain about piracy....so, just HOW
do copies of games get to the hackers/crackers during deelopment? eh?
its people _IN_ the s/w houses doing themseleves damage.
alan
--
-T H E A L A N T I M E S- FREE Distribution: >1,000,000 copies worldwide!
Date: Wed Jan 31 14:56:17 GMT 1996 Issue:01/00/00 NOT to be carried on M.S.N.!
The InterNet Amiga Magazine,"Amiga Report". Do you read it? Want to Know More?
--------Support Software Writers, Dont copy/buy/swap Pirated software---------
Mike
Hi, John Millington , on 29-Jan-96 03:29:26 you scribbled....
>Robert Owen Raine (ra...@msupa.pa.msu.edu) wrote:
>: Then you should stop trying to run Amiga games on your clone machine. ;^)
>How ironic that my Amiga isn't Amiga compatable. The only way I can play
>games on my Amiga is to run the *Mac* version on my Mac clone (A3000 with
>ShapeShifter).
>I cannot and will not support Amiga games developers until this
>situation changes. Any Amiga developer that directly hits the hardware
>is shooting himself in the foot -- no wait -- in the _head_.
>Hm... here's another way to put it:
> MUI runs on my machine
> Mac games run on my machine
> Many Amiga games do not
>Ergo, the MUI programmers and the Mac game programmers are far more
>competant, intelligent, and skilled than the Amiga game programmers.
> Nephren Ka Nai Hadoth,
> John Millington
...and I don't see why they should support it (ECS is old and dead) unless of
course you have a gfx card ?
IMHO all new games should be AGA and cybergfx supporting
Mike
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Redrobe - Mi...@Redrobe.demon.co.uk MikeRR on #Amiga
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Allan Girvan
> Philipp Boerker posted the following:
>
> : Then you should check some so called friends of yours:
> : A buggy version of AB3D was offered to me even before it was released!
> : And it had to make the way from Britain to Germany BTW.
>
> i agree! all these coding houses complain about piracy....so, just HOW
> do copies of games get to the hackers/crackers during deelopment? eh?
>
> its people _IN_ the s/w houses doing themseleves damage.
So if I write a piece of software and pass it to a few selected
beta-testers and it subsequently gets copied to countless bulletin boards
then *I* am ultimately responsible for the piracy?
What about the pre-release versions of games that are passed to magazines
for review? If the folks on the mag make copies for their kids to see how
playable a game is and then the kids copy it to their mates at school and
the mates at school copy it...
Or maybe a beta-tester decides that he/she knows someone who could help
evaluate a copy of the latest program, and that person decides to copy it
to a few friends...
Et cetera, et cetera, ad nauseam.
In Glasgow we have an infamous source of pirated software (MSDOS 6 was
released in Glasgow before Microsoft had officialy announced it!) but, as
the prosecutions revealed, the games had been cracked by pirates (who
boasted about the fact in the bootblocks) and most serious stuff was a beta
version which had been issued to a "responsible" developer and subsequently
pirated.
I think it's grossly unfair to blame software houses for piracy!
We call them idiots if they don't go through a proper testing routine but
we call them idiots if they do!
Sometimes you just can't win!
Cheers,
Allan.
--
| EMail - al...@girvan.demon.co.uk | Running on // You Know it |
| Greetings from Glasgow, Scotland | AMIGA 1200 \X/ makes sense |
john enger
: I think it's grossly unfair to blame software houses for piracy!
In general, I agree. However, as with everything else, there are exceptions.
I know of a software house that uses pirated software to develop games with
- and then has the cheek to moan about their games being pirated!! The only
reason I haven't claimed my $1000 reward, is my mate works there and could
be out of a job if I do.
FWIW, this just happens to be a PC only software house. Ironic, huh?
========================= john....@bbsrc.ac.uk =====================///===
A1200, 40 Mhz '030, 2+4Mb RAM, 80Mb HD, 1960 MSync Monitor. ///
-------------------------------------------------------------------\XX/-----
Maxwell Daymon
: ...and I don't see why they should support it (ECS is old and dead) unless of
: course you have a gfx card ?
: IMHO all new games should be AGA and cybergfx supporting
^^^^^^^^
Neither Apple nor the PC require you to buy a whole new machine just to
get a gfx chip update. Either machine will take a 3D RISC coprocessor
engine and use it *without* breaking older games *and* you get the cool
new stuff on top of it.
If 'hardware banging' is the argument, I'll get a Playstation. If game
programmers want to grow up and use a proper RTG API, I'll consider the
Amiga for games. Otherwise, the Mac and PC win hands down.
With a few minor exceptions, I gave up on the Amiga for games about a
year ago.