ClickBoom are a bunch of whiners
Kirk Strauser
from all along: ClickBoom had NO intention whatsoever of fulfilling their
contracts and producing their own QuakePPC.
Think about it.
My pre-order agreement (I was one of those who paid in advance on good
faith!) said that the PPC version would be included on the original CD if
completed in time, but at any rate send on to all registered owners as
soon as it was finished.
Ever since the day they started shipping, though, their story's been a bit
changed: they'd *love* to finish QuakePPC, but they just then remembered
that they'd already promised MystPPC to all of the Myst owners who bought
in expectations of... well... a faster Myst.
After that excuse wore out, and it became obvious that MytsPPC had died on
the vine, they advanced to the "Well, we're really busy right now..."
phase.
Finally, after many months, some kind soul finally gave Quake to the PPC
community who was frothing at the bits to get their hands on what they'd
already paid for. ClickBoom's next statement was, "Please don't play
that pirate game! Wait for ours! You *know* it will be much better!"
So where the hell is it? They've had a full year to work on it now, and
even had the original ID source code and documentation, but I've YET to
see an "official" QuakePPC!
Finally, their wildest dream came true: someone posted the fake version
to Aminet under ClickBoom's name. Their unsurprising reaction: "Now we
have a reason not to make QuakePPC!"
This is pure and utter bullshit.
Imagine that you're ClickBoom, and you've put the previous year (!!!) to
good use and actually written a few lines of code. Some idiot plays a
silly practical joke that *noone* will fall for. You then decide to
scrap all of your hard-won progress and throw your hands up in surrender,
because someone teased you.
As I said, bullshit.
Instead of trashing your hard work, you find the person responsible and
take it up with them. Then you get back to work, and finish what you've
promised.
I, for one, will NEVER buy another ClickBoom game, ever. They can go out
of business for all I care. In fact, I wouldn't be opposed to filing a
class-action "breach of contract" (I pre-paid under the specific agree-
ment that I'd receive QuakePPC soon after initial release!) lawsuit to
make sure that happens.
Let me make one thing perfectly clear, though: this is NOT an indictment
against ANY other Amiga developers. Guys, you're working hard to give us
top-of-the-line software, and I appreciate it in writing, verbally, and
with my money. My quarrel is VERY specific to ClickBoom's actions or
lack thereof, and in NO way should reflect on anyone else.
In closing, if you're from ClickBoom and reading this:
You're a bunch of lousy little thieves, and you can all kiss my ass.
Kirk Strauser
Member Team AMIGA
Georg Rottlaender
On 6 Nov 1998 01:34:14 GMT you wrote:
> Yeah, you read that correctly. They are whiners. This proves my point
> from all along: ClickBoom had NO intention whatsoever of fulfilling their
> contracts and producing their own QuakePPC.
>
> Think about it.
I too believe that they never intented to release QuakePPC.
> My pre-order agreement (I was one of those who paid in advance on good
> faith!) said that the PPC version would be included on the original CD if
> completed in time, but at any rate send on to all registered owners as
> soon as it was finished.
.. aren't you satisfied with the 68060 'optimized' version? ;-)
> Ever since the day they started shipping, though, their story's been a bit
> changed: they'd *love* to finish QuakePPC, but they just then remembered
> that they'd already promised MystPPC to all of the Myst owners who bought
> in expectations of... well... a faster Myst.
.. which will also never the the light?
> After that excuse wore out, and it became obvious that MytsPPC had died on
> the vine, they advanced to the "Well, we're really busy right now..."
> phase.
.. busy finding the official reason to declare QuakePPC dead.
> Finally, after many months, some kind soul finally gave Quake to the PPC
> community who was frothing at the bits to get their hands on what they'd
> already paid for. ClickBoom's next statement was, "Please don't play
> that pirate game! Wait for ours! You *know* it will be much better!"
.. didn't you realize that their 'version' is bug-free!! ;-)
> So where the hell is it? They've had a full year to work on it now, and
> even had the original ID source code and documentation, but I've YET to
> see an "official" QuakePPC!
.. and so do I ... and I'm now still waiting for MystPPC.
> Finally, their wildest dream came true: someone posted the fake version
> to Aminet under ClickBoom's name. Their unsurprising reaction: "Now we
> have a reason not to make QuakePPC!"
.. sad that nobody so far ported illegaly Myst to PPC ... so they
still have to find the reason for not releasing MystPPC.
> This is pure and utter bullshit.
.. YEP!!
> Imagine that you're ClickBoom, and you've put the previous year (!!!) to
> good use and actually written a few lines of code. Some idiot plays a
> silly practical joke that *noone* will fall for. You then decide to
> scrap all of your hard-won progress and throw your hands up in surrender,
> because someone teased you.
[...]
> Instead of trashing your hard work, you find the person responsible and
> take it up with them. Then you get back to work, and finish what you've
> promised.
.. so you're (now) supposing that they already did develop the
official QuakePPC?!
[...]
Bye!
Georg
--
Georg Rottlaender - Friedrich-Ebert-Str. 4 - D-53721 Siegburg
Phone: +49-2241-590230 - E-Mail: Georg.Ro...@home.ivm.de
Homepage: http://home.ivm.de/~Georg.Rottlaender
---------------- A Legend Tears Itself To Pieces ----------------
admv...@my-dejanews.com
damaging Clickboom , its damaging future game development , and its damaging
the amiga and honest users.
To those who hold the same views as mr Strauser - I`m sorry , but you cannot
blame Clickboom for not producing the goods when there has been a pirate
version floating around for months on end that most PPC users are quite happy
to take with open arms. Clickboom don`t stand a chance.
I`d gladly see the pirates hung drawn and quartered - but then I always did
have an odd view.
DS
In article <71tjmm$ji6$1...@ns2.dialnet.net>,
Kirk Strauser <tekn...@dialnet.net> wrote:
> Yeah, you read that correctly. They are whiners. This proves my point
> from all along: ClickBoom had NO intention whatsoever of fulfilling their
> contracts and producing their own QuakePPC.
>
> Think about it.
>
> My pre-order agreement (I was one of those who paid in advance on good
> faith!) said that the PPC version would be included on the original CD if
> completed in time, but at any rate send on to all registered owners as
> soon as it was finished.
>
> Ever since the day they started shipping, though, their story's been a bit
> changed: they'd *love* to finish QuakePPC, but they just then remembered
> that they'd already promised MystPPC to all of the Myst owners who bought
> in expectations of... well... a faster Myst.
>
> After that excuse wore out, and it became obvious that MytsPPC had died on
> the vine, they advanced to the "Well, we're really busy right now..."
> phase.
>
> Finally, after many months, some kind soul finally gave Quake to the PPC
> community who was frothing at the bits to get their hands on what they'd
> already paid for. ClickBoom's next statement was, "Please don't play
> that pirate game! Wait for ours! You *know* it will be much better!"
>
> So where the hell is it? They've had a full year to work on it now, and
> even had the original ID source code and documentation, but I've YET to
> see an "official" QuakePPC!
>
> Finally, their wildest dream came true: someone posted the fake version
> to Aminet under ClickBoom's name. Their unsurprising reaction: "Now we
> have a reason not to make QuakePPC!"
>
> This is pure and utter bullshit.
>
> Imagine that you're ClickBoom, and you've put the previous year (!!!) to
> good use and actually written a few lines of code. Some idiot plays a
> silly practical joke that *noone* will fall for. You then decide to
> scrap all of your hard-won progress and throw your hands up in surrender,
> because someone teased you.
>
> As I said, bullshit.
>
> Instead of trashing your hard work, you find the person responsible and
> take it up with them. Then you get back to work, and finish what you've
> promised.
>
> I, for one, will NEVER buy another ClickBoom game, ever. They can go out
> of business for all I care. In fact, I wouldn't be opposed to filing a
> class-action "breach of contract" (I pre-paid under the specific agree-
> ment that I'd receive QuakePPC soon after initial release!) lawsuit to
> make sure that happens.
>
> Let me make one thing perfectly clear, though: this is NOT an indictment
> against ANY other Amiga developers. Guys, you're working hard to give us
> top-of-the-line software, and I appreciate it in writing, verbally, and
> with my money. My quarrel is VERY specific to ClickBoom's actions or
> lack thereof, and in NO way should reflect on anyone else.
>
> In closing, if you're from ClickBoom and reading this:
>
> You're a bunch of lousy little thieves, and you can all kiss my ass.
>
> Kirk Strauser
> Member Team AMIGA
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
sca...@my-dejanews.com
Kirk Strauser <tekn...@dialnet.net> wrote:
> Yeah, you read that correctly. They are whiners. This proves my point
> from all along: ClickBoom had NO intention whatsoever of fulfilling their
> contracts and producing their own QuakePPC.
> go out of business for all I care. In closing, if you're from
> ClickBoom and reading this:
>
> You're a bunch of lousy little thieves, and you can all kiss my
> ass.
>
> Kirk Strauser
> Member Team AMIGA
Absolutely damn right, and since clickBoom have decided to delete my
comments from their forum, I will reproduce them here.
Well, clickBoom have really shot themselves in the foot this time. I
like many others, bought Quake on the promise of a PPC version and now
that it isn't going to happen, I'm going to hurt clickBoom/PXL
where it hurts them the most. I'm going to vote with my wallet and
never purchase a clickBoom/PXL product ever again. I've cancelled
my Napalm pre-order, they won't see my money again.
I foolishly thought the the clickBoom merchandise was even going to
finance a QuakePPC version,(like Hi-Toro did with Lorraine).But now I
hope they DO leave the Amiga market, or even better go out of
business. They even have the nerve to say "don't flame us about this
decision". I have every goddamn right to. I bought their product, I
paid for their wages.
I DEMAND AN OFFICIAL PPC VERSION OF QUAKE!!
Damn you clickBoom/PXL, Damn you all to hell.
Extremely bitter and disillusioned.
scania
Am...@computer.org
Kirk Strauser <tekn...@dialnet.net> wrote:
> Yeah, you read that correctly. They are whiners. This proves my point
> from all along: ClickBoom had NO intention whatsoever of fulfilling their
> contracts and producing their own QuakePPC.
<snip>
Exactly!!
Well said Kirk, I agree 100% with your entire analysis.
TTFN,
Keith
Bill.
Georg Rottlaender <Georg.Ro...@home.ivm.de> wrote in article
<3642BC02.MD-0.238...@home.ivm.de>...
> Hello Kirk Strauser (tekn...@dialnet.net)!
> On 6 Nov 1998 01:34:14 GMT you wrote:
>
>
> .. aren't you satisfied with the 68060 'optimized' version? ;-)
I don't have a PPC version yet but the 060 version seems slow on my 060 and
Gfx card.
Speaking of the 060 version, I sent a request for thet AGES ago. it is odd
that they only
got around to sending it last night. Sort of bad timing you may say !
Bill.
Georg Rottlaender
On Fri, 06 Nov 1998 10:42:04 GMT you wrote:
> The PPC version is Piracy - there are no other possible ways to view it. Its
> damaging Clickboom , its damaging future game development , and its damaging
> the amiga and honest users.
.. you say that I'm not a honest user although I for example own
the originals of Myst and Quake?
.. you say that those who bought the originals - and are still
waiting for the promised PPC versions - are damaging the Amiga?
.. do you expect me riding the snail when a PPC version is available?
> To those who hold the same views as mr Strauser - I`m sorry , but you cannot
> blame Clickboom for not producing the goods when there has been a pirate
> version floating around for months on end that most PPC users are quite happy
> to take with open arms. Clickboom don`t stand a chance.
.. so where's the pirate version of Myst? Or why isn't MystPPC
available?
clickBOOM didn't take the chance. So far they only made false
promises.
Georg Rottlaender
On Fri, 06 Nov 1998 11:25:38 GMT you wrote:
[...]
> I DEMAND AN OFFICIAL PPC VERSION OF QUAKE!!
Me too ... but nobody will hear us!
Mark Howson
> The PPC version is Piracy - there are no other possible ways to view it. Its
> damaging Clickboom , its damaging future game development , and its damaging
> the amiga and honest users.
But they could have stopped it *right at the beginning* by releasing an
official PPC Quake - or even a signal that they were working on it, but
they've not delivered an official version; we've just had vague promises
and 'oh, our version will be better' statements. Sure, CB - you're the
only guys who can program, right? How long would it have taken Clickboom
to do a PPC version? With the Ami source code and a decent programmer, a
few weeks at most. Sigh...
> To those who hold the same views as mr Strauser - I`m sorry , but you cannot
> blame Clickboom for not producing the goods when there has been a pirate
> version floating around for months on end that most PPC users are quite happy
> to take with open arms. Clickboom don`t stand a chance.
I absolutely agree with most of what Kirk said, though I probably will
still buy Naplalm - we don't want to lose CB, they're one of the few
decent developers we have left. I wonder how many of CB's sales of Quake
were to PPC card owners who didn't even want the 68k version.
> I`d gladly see the pirates hung drawn and quartered - but then I always did
> have an odd view.
Normally, I'd agree with you, but in this case it's CB who ought to be
apologising. Sorry about the rant, but their sulky little statement has
really irritated me.
Mark
joe
> Hello Kirk Strauser (tekn...@dialnet.net)!
> On 6 Nov 1998 01:34:14 GMT you wrote:
>
> > from all along: ClickBoom had NO intention whatsoever of fulfilling their
> > contracts and producing their own QuakePPC.
> >
>
> I too believe that they never intented to release QuakePPC.
And the fact that this is the single most pirated Amiga game in the
history of the platform had nothing to do with it. The brashness of the
pirate posting fps results and continual updates on the ngs and you
support this. No, I'm not happy CB dropped the PPC version but this
nonsense of blaming a Commercial company for the actions of some as?hole
pirate is moronic. The only whining on these ngs is coming from these
types of posts - not ClickBoom.......joe
joe
>
> The PPC version is Piracy - there are no other possible ways to view it. Its
> damaging Clickboom , its damaging future game development , and its damaging
> the amiga and honest users.
This is dead on! Piracy is piracy - PERIOD. No possible excuse can be
made for the existance of this pirate software. By the logic of these
whiners you shouldn't even need Quake Amiga if you already own Quake PC
or Mac. Give it a rest. Your wrong, your pirates, and you screwed us
all.........joe
> To those who hold the same views as mr Strauser - I`m sorry , but you cannot
> blame Clickboom for not producing the goods when there has been a pirate
> version floating around for months on end that most PPC users are quite happy
> to take with open arms. Clickboom don`t stand a chance.
>
> I`d gladly see the pirates hung drawn and quartered - but then I always did
> have an odd view.
Well, just arresting them with fines and possible jail time would be
enough. But the damage has been severe. So much so that it is tempting
to think about more severe penalties. But, unfortuneately, we'll have
to live with fines and jail time. Here's to busting the whole lot of
you. Cheers.......joe
Kirk Strauser
>Hello Kirk Strauser (tekn...@dialnet.net)!
>On 6 Nov 1998 01:34:14 GMT you wrote:
>... aren't you satisfied with the 68060 'optimized' version? ;-)
You mean the one that crashes when you jump in the water? Now that you
ask: "no".
>> that they'd already promised MystPPC to all of the Myst owners who bought
>> in expectations of... well... a faster Myst.
>... which will also never the the light?
I laughed about that one from day one. PPC Quicktime game? Why? None-
theless, they promised, and they should've delivered.
>> already paid for. ClickBoom's next statement was, "Please don't play
>> that pirate game! Wait for ours! You *know* it will be much better!"
>... didn't you realize that their 'version' is bug-free!! ;-)
See also: crashing 060 version. ;)
>> Instead of trashing your hard work, you find the person responsible and
>> take it up with them. Then you get back to work, and finish what you've
>> promised.
>... so you're (now) supposing that they already did develop the
>official QuakePPC?!
No. That statement was part of a "proof by contradiction". :)
--
Kirk Strauser Member // http://members.dialnet.net/teknique/
Team AMIGA \X/ http://csc.smsu.edu/~strauser/RA.html
"Classic" 3000/060/50/604e/200/176MB/Picasso II/IOExtender/Major Attitude
Kirk Strauser
>To those who hold the same views as mr Strauser - I`m sorry , but you
cannot
>blame Clickboom for not producing the goods when there has been a pirate
>version floating around for months on end that most PPC users are quite
happy
>to take with open arms. Clickboom don`t stand a chance.
We had no choice, Adm. We had pre-paid for the PPC version, and I mean
that *very* literally. On the promise of a PowerPC Quake, I sent them
money. Without that promise, I wouldn't have bought the underpowered 0x0
port. Six months later, was I supposed to admit that I'd been suckered out
of my earnings by a lie, or should I download the QuakePPC people were
talking about and finally start using my investment? I chose the latter,
as did most of us.
Look at MystPPC - noone's "pirated" that, but ClickBoom hasn't released
it either. What about the people who bought it for the same reason I
bought Quake? They don't even have the right to controversy of the
QuakePPC players - they're just stuck without *anything* to show.
Kirk Strauser
>I absolutely agree with most of what Kirk said, though I probably will
>still buy Naplalm - we don't want to lose CB, they're one of the few
>decent developers we have left. I wonder how many of CB's sales of Quake
>were to PPC card owners who didn't even want the 68k version.
Mark, it really kills me to say this, but that's one company we need to
lose. They've continuously lied and stolen from their customers. Is this
the kind of representation we need? No. Frankly, it makes us look like a
bunch of pathetic hangers-on, as if we'll grab for the brass ring no matter
what the cost or how far-fetched the premise. I can't go on like that.
I'd rather consolidate and keep my money flowing to the developers who've
proven themselves honest and supportive, such as Holger Kruse, Vaporware,
Kermit Woodall, Paul Burkey, et al.
Kirk Strauser
>This is dead on! Piracy is piracy - PERIOD. No possible excuse can be
>made for the existance of this pirate software. By the logic of these
>whiners you shouldn't even need Quake Amiga if you already own Quake PC
>or Mac. Give it a rest. Your wrong, your pirates, and you screwed us
>all.........joe
Joe,
We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I agree 100% that
piracy sucks, and I do not engage in it. However, I have paid for
QuakePPC, and I don't mean that in some airy figurative sense. CB got
my money upon their word that my QuakePPC copy was on its way, and then
they changed their minds. Just because they decided not to fulfill their
moral and legal (a contract is a contract!) obligation doesn't mean that
I should be denied the right to seek a 3rd-party contractor (who's working
for free) to finish the deal.
I bought QuakePPC.
I paid for QuakePPC.
I'm playing QuakePPC, and ClickBoom can still kiss my ass.
Furthermore, I don't doubt that any court in the free world would see
things exactly as I do.
Georg Rottlaender
On Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:37:34 -0600 you wrote:
[...]
> And the fact that this is the single most pirated Amiga game in the
> history of the platform had nothing to do with it.
.. 'most pirated Amiga game in the history'???? History doesn't last
very long from your POV!?
> The brashness of the
> pirate posting fps results and continual updates on the ngs and you
> support this.
I'm not supporting it ... but using it. What do you want me to do?
Would it have been better not buying AQuake at all from your POV ...
I guess not ... I bought AQuake (with PPC version in mind and to
support the promised PPC version) and waited, waited and waited.
> No, I'm not happy CB dropped the PPC version but this
> nonsense of blaming a Commercial company for the actions of some as?hole
> pirate is moronic.
I'm not blaming clickBOOM for the actions of some ... but for their
non-actions, dishonesty and false promises.
> The only whining on these ngs is coming from these
> types of posts - not ClickBoom.
So what do you do when someone promises you something, and doesn't
keep these promises, and/or behaves dishonest to you? Your going to
smile bright over your whole face? I guess not!!!
Why should clickBOOM whine at all? They have no reason to whine! Or
did they already port AQuake to PPC??
You can call me a pirat ... I don't care ... I'm supporting the Amiga
wherever I can, but I'm more and more asking myself: 'Why?'.
Ancipital
<teknique@honey/removethis/pot.net> wrote:
>Mark, it really kills me to say this, but that's one company we need to
>lose. They've continuously lied and stolen from their customers. Is this
>the kind of representation we need? No. Frankly, it makes us look like a
>bunch of pathetic hangers-on, as if we'll grab for the brass ring no matter
>what the cost or how far-fetched the premise. I can't go on like that.
>I'd rather consolidate and keep my money flowing to the developers who've
>proven themselves honest and supportive, such as Holger Kruse, Vaporware,
>Kermit Woodall, Paul Burkey, et al.
Well said that man!
Personally, I am quite chuffed at a lot of the people in your list.
The MiamiDLX telnet was a nice bonus, even though I have regged
AmTelnet... etc. Olliware always offers great bang for buck too,
though I am still waiting for the series 5 ver of AmigaNCP :)
I can honestly say that I haven't seen anything to touch miami on any
other machine, and you're right, these people are the ones we need to
support...
Ancipital- Inedible Buddhas reality control #1
http://www.buddhas.org is currently tqt- back soon.
To unmung email addr, remove all instances of "aremadeoffish"
"I'm not crying victim, but I am stating that a lot of spammers
are genuine scumbags." -Sanford Wallace
Johan Ronnblom
> I agree 100% that piracy sucks, and I do not engage in it. However, I have > paid for QuakePPC, and I don't mean that in some airy figurative sense. CB > got my money upon their word that my QuakePPC copy was on its way, and then
> they changed their minds. Just because they decided not to fulfill their
> moral and legal (a contract is a contract!) obligation doesn't mean that
> I should be denied the right to seek a 3rd-party contractor (who's working
> for free) to finish the deal.
>
> I bought QuakePPC.
>
> I paid for QuakePPC.
I agree 100%, and my situation is *exactly* the same as yours. When
ClickBoom received my money back in January, they charged me for the PPC
version they promised, NOT for a ridiculous, unplayable 68k version. If
ClickBoom have the balls to turn up at Cologne, I'll ask them politely
one last time.
ClickBoom have been very good at marketting their games so far. It's
really odd that they are now spitting in the faces of their customers
like this.
A little note about piracy: Unless a game is extremely bad, there is
always piracy. However, with QuakePPC it has always striked me how, even
on IRC channels where the rest happily keep talking about their latest
piracy, the QuakePPC users always have (somewhat bitterly) remarked that
they actually have the original, paid for, version of ClickBoom Quake.
It wouldn't surprise me if there are a few of people out there for which
ClickBoom Quake was the first and last game they ever bought..
/Johan Rönnblom, Team Amiga
Andrew Hutchins
[Flame suit on]
*Sigh* Whats the point anymore? Whenever a company, connected with the
Amiga does anything (good, bad, or because they don`t have resources...) They
get slaged off, I`m surprised we have any companies left at all. If you`re so
angry
at ClickBOOM, go and buy a god damn PC, AND PLAY PISSING
QUAKE THERE! (Frankly, Quake`s crap anyway).
[Flame suit off]
It`s days like this I wonder why I bother owning an Amiga at all...
Thanks.
Andrew Hutchins.
Alan L.M. Buxey
: Well, clickBoom have really shot themselves in the foot this time. I
: like many others, bought Quake on the promise of a PPC version and now
: that it isn't going to happen, I'm going to hurt clickBoom/PXL
: where it hurts them the most. I'm going to vote with my wallet and
: never purchase a clickBoom/PXL product ever again. I've cancelled
oh dear. Seems like you want to hurt them anyway by being happy playing
illegal versions of ports
: finance a QuakePPC version,(like Hi-Toro did with Lorraine).But now I
: hope they DO leave the Amiga market, or even better go out of
: business. They even have the nerve to say "don't flame us about this
: decision". I have every goddamn right to. I bought their product, I
: paid for their wages.
: I DEMAND AN OFFICIAL PPC VERSION OF QUAKE!!
: Damn you clickBoom/PXL, Damn you all to hell.
this is all so stupid.
There are *too* many of the Amiga PPC users who are, basically, very happy
and contented playing illegal ports of software. These same PPC owners
wont be prepared to buy the "Real Thing" as they never even had to buy
the CB Amiga Quake in the first place!
On the other hand, there are the innocent parties out there. the people
who have a PPC but bought AmigaQuake because CB said there woul be a
port.
at that point in tiem, CB didnt know that there would be the illegal
port floating around.
Times change. If too many of your targert audience are happy playing
illegal software ports, then what do you do?
CB arent a charity. They dont have to do anything. they can release
PC/Mac software if they wanted to....they chose Amiga. I was happy with
that.
the way some people act towards them I wonder why they did.
I also wonder if I want to be associated with a lot of the current Amiga
owners I see frequenting these groups these days. They're giving not
only the platform, but also all other users a bad name.
If all the developrs get chased and hounded away (look at Vulcan and
Team17 in the past 2 years!!!) then there'll be no games at all. just
freebie cheapies and illegal ports. then the platform will be dead and
those sad f**ks can go and get their bloody P-III machines with Voodoo7
cards and start their piracy crap and moaning on the PC. I wish they'd
leave sooner than that!
alan
Mikey C
>
> [Flame suit on]
> *Sigh* Whats the point anymore? Whenever a company, connected with the
> Amiga does anything (good, bad, or because they don`t have resources...) They
> get slaged off, I`m surprised we have any companies left at all. If you`re so
> angry
> at ClickBOOM, go and buy a god damn PC, AND PLAY PISSING
> QUAKE THERE! (Frankly, Quake`s crap anyway).
> [Flame suit off]
So F******g true. I agree with your comments 100%
I am so sick and tired of reading posts from whiners.
Give it a break guys, sell your miggy to someone and move on.
I bet three months of using a PC, day in and day out, will make you
miss your Amiga
> It`s days like this I wonder why I bother owning an Amiga at all...
Huh at least you have an Amiga, mine took to smoking last night. :(
Seems rather dead today. :(
Anyhow nice to see you back again.
Regards, Mikey C
Member: Team AMIGA.
Amiga Yellow Pages - http://web.ukonline.co.uk/michael.carrillo
& M.I.B.
Protecting The Amiga user from the Scum of The PC universe.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
The views expressed here are entirely my own and not my Employers
Jonathan Gapen
>Give it a break guys, sell your miggy to someone and move on.
I'm just reading this and wondering: Is this appreciation for what you
think is technical superiority, or a game of last-one-with-an-Amiga wins?
>I bet three months of using a PC, day in and day out, will make you
>miss your Amiga
How did PCs get pulled into the discussion of broken promises from
clickBOOM?
Anyway, I just bought the pieces for a nice (overclocked) 450MHz CeleronA
system, and I'm loving it! It's running FreeBSD 3.0, you see. The OS isn't
without its problems yet, but the SPEED! It can display a JPEG file faster
than my Amiga can display an 80x80 thumbnail of that image. Smokin'! And
I could go on about the software available, but I don't have the time.
I'm not missing my Amiga, either. It's still here! It still works
alongside a PC, y'know.
--
Jonathan Gapen - sysadmin - biker - caver - collecter of old computers
I think you know exactly what I mean when I say it's a shpadoinkle day.
Johan Ronnblom
>
> [Flame suit on]
> *Sigh* Whats the point anymore? Whenever a company, connected with the
> Amiga does anything (good, bad, or because they don`t have
> resources...) They get slaged off, I`m surprised we have any companies > left at all. If you`re so angry at ClickBOOM, go and buy a god damn
> PC, AND PLAY PISSING QUAKE THERE! (Frankly, Quake`s crap anyway).
> [Flame suit off]
>
ClickBoom are making business by taking preorders for unfinished
products. Those of us "whining" about them are doing so because we
wanted to support them and thus paid them, but never got what we paid
for. Is it so hard to understand that we're pissed? Should we just be
happy and keep sending them our money?
If you think so, please send me some money as well. I'll send you a
great Amiga game if you do. Really. But don't be too pissed if I break
the promise. And if you're not prepared to send me money.. well then "go
and buy a god damn PC, AND PLAY PISSING QUAKE THERE!".
The original poster pointed out quite clearly that he is pissed at
ClickBoom specifically, and that he has no problems with Amiga companies
in general. Like him, and others who have followed up, I'm starting to
wonder if my money wouldn't be better spent with other Amiga companies.
Anyway, I agree. Quake's crap, sort of. I bought it to support what I
thought was an innovative Amiga games company.
/Johan Rönnblom, Team Amiga
Georg Rottlaender
On 6 Nov 1998 15:50:38 GMT you wrote:
[...]
> If all the developrs get chased and hounded away (look at Vulcan and
> Team17 in the past 2 years!!!) then there'll be no games at all. just
> freebie cheapies and illegal ports. then the platform will be dead and
> those sad f**ks can go and get their bloody P-III machines with Voodoo7
> cards and start their piracy crap and moaning on the PC. I wish they'd
> leave sooner than that!
Which developer was/is chased and hounded away by the illegal PPC
port??? The non-existing developer who ports QuakePPC for clickBOOM?
Georg Rottlaender
On Fri, 06 Nov 1998 17:24:23 +0000 you wrote:
> [Flame suit on]
> *Sigh* Whats the point anymore? Whenever a company, connected with the
> Amiga does anything (good, bad, or because they don`t have resources...) They
> get slaged off, I`m surprised we have any companies left at all. If you`re so
> angry
> at ClickBOOM, go and buy a god damn PC, AND PLAY PISSING
> QUAKE THERE! (Frankly, Quake`s crap anyway).
> [Flame suit off]
What a bullshit!
Georg Rottlaender
On Fri, 06 Nov 1998 18:03:12 +0000 you wrote:
[...]
> So F******g true. I agree with your comments 100%
> I am so sick and tired of reading posts from whiners.
.. so you're the one who accepts all and everything ...
> Give it a break guys, sell your miggy to someone and move on.
.. this is really the best solution ... all those who express
justified criticism should sell their Amiga ... GREAT!!!
> I bet three months of using a PC, day in and day out, will make you
> miss your Amiga
What are you talking about? Where's the link to the actual subject?
Johan Ronnblom
> There are *too* many of the Amiga PPC users who are, basically, very
> happy and contented playing illegal ports of software. These same PPC > owners wont be prepared to buy the "Real Thing" as they never even had > to buy the CB Amiga Quake in the first place!
Well, any number is too many. But I wish there were statistics of how
many of the people who play QuakePPC that own the original ClickBoom
Quake. I'm sure such figures would give certain one-dimensional thinking
letter-of-the-law obsessed people food for thought.
ClickBoom have figures for PPC owners who bought Quake and took part in
the ClickBoom PPC registration. Let's hope they release them in their
article in "the.newt".
Another thing which is interesting: Some people say that ClickBoom could
not release PPC Quake because there is not enough people with PPC
boards. Then the same people say ClickBoom are seriously hurt by piracy
of the PPC version.. hmmm.. hmmm..
/Johan Rönnblom, Team Amiga
joe
>
> Hello joe (e...@epix.net)!
> On Fri, 06 Nov 1998 09:37:34 -0600 you wrote:
>
> [...]
> very long from your POV!?
Only since '89.
> So what do you do when someone promises you something, and doesn't
> keep these promises, and/or behaves dishonest to you? Your going to
> smile bright over your whole face? I guess not!!!
What do you expect a commercial outfit to do. Dedicate their time to a
market flooded with pirated versions of their software? And to make
matters worse, the fps postings for the latest pirate version is
faaaaasssst. This is a no win situation for CB or any commercial
developer.
> Why should clickBOOM whine at all? They have no reason to whine! Or
> did they already port AQuake to PPC??
I'm tired of certain posters flaming CB. If there were no CB there
would be no commercial versions of Myst or Quake. And don't forget
their highly polished original software - Capital Punishment.
> You can call me a pirat ... I don't care ... I'm supporting the Amiga
> wherever I can, but I'm more and more asking myself: 'Why?'.
Because this isn't a charity. These people are trying to earn money to
make a living just like everyone else here! Someone floods the market
with pirated versions of their latest product and some posters here are
tripping over each other trying to flame CB the loudest. Can you
imagine what any lurkers from potential Amiga developers would think?
I'm sick of people defending piracy. It's bad for the Amiga, the
future, and the possibility of garnering new developers. There was
recently a death threat posted from some pirate or pirate supporter.
Enough is enough already. You may not like it but it's legally and
morally wrong and it's killing the Amiga...joe
joe
>
> joe wrote:
>
> >This is dead on! Piracy is piracy - PERIOD. No possible excuse can be
> >made for the existance of this pirate software. By the logic of these
> >whiners you shouldn't even need Quake Amiga if you already own Quake PC
> >or Mac. Give it a rest. Your wrong, your pirates, and you screwed us
> >all.........joe
>
> Joe,
OK. We disagree. And my last sentence in that paragraph was
regretable. My anger is directed at the idiot who stole and posted all
the pirated software in the 1st place. I stand by everything else I
posted. It really is screwing us all. That damn G3 was the PPC board
Phase5 should have made and I was looking forward to it. What a f??king
mess.
> I agree 100% that
> piracy sucks, and I do not engage in it. However, I have paid for
> QuakePPC, and I don't mean that in some airy figurative sense. CB got
> my money upon their word that my QuakePPC copy was on its way, and then
> they changed their minds.
Well they did have quite a bit of help. That damn pirate quake is
updated and improved continously. Look at it this way. If it wasn't
there, you would have to buy it from CB. Now it's all over the place.
And even worse - it's good! If it was a piece of shit and unplayable
that would be another matter.
> Just because they decided not to fulfill their
> moral and legal (a contract is a contract!) obligation doesn't mean that
> I should be denied the right to seek a 3rd-party contractor (who's working
> for free) to finish the deal.
You're on thin ice here. There are no warranties express or implied.
That's the mantra of all software packages. There's no contract to
break. But only if you live in the US or Canada. I've been pretty
surprised at some of the different attitudes of Europeans. It's just
the way business works over here. From what I read in these ngs it
appears that customer service is expected for US companies (optional in
Europe) and US companies enjoy better protection in return (this piracy
thread). I could be wrong but the Phase5 and CB situation seem to
exemplify this.
> Furthermore, I don't doubt that any court in the free world would see
> things exactly as I do.
If you're a betting man you'd loose. You are free to travel to the US
and try that in front of a judge. But this just seems to further
support the differences between European and US business
practices............joe
Kirk Strauser
>OK. We disagree. And my last sentence in that paragraph was
>regretable. My anger is directed at the idiot who stole and posted all
>the pirated software in the 1st place.
Hey, I understand. Really, I do. But the sad truth is that noone will
ever
convince me that CB had *any* intention of ever doing a PPC version.
I firmly believe that was nothing more than a pathetic (yet successful)
attempt to woo buyers.
>Well they did have quite a bit of help. That damn pirate quake is
>updated and improved continously. Look at it this way. If it wasn't
>there, you would have to buy it from CB.
I already did, Joe. That was why I bought Quake from ClickBoom; they
flat-out stated that the purchase price included a copy of QuakePPC
as soon as it wass finished.
>You're on thin ice here. There are no warranties express or implied.
While I understand what you're saying in a general case, this was a very
specific arrangement. My original agreement with ClickBoom (the contract
that resulted in money changing hands) was that they were going to give
me a copy of QuakePPC. That's *not* an exaggeration. Those were the
exact terms of the purchase.
>If you're a betting man you'd loose. You are free to travel to the US
>and try that in front of a judge. But this just seems to further
>support the differences between European and US business
>practices.
USA law is largely descended from English Common Law, and I presume
that Contract Law is much the same in most 1st-world countries. Simply
put, CB did *not* uphold their end of an explicit contract.
Kirk Strauser
Member Team AMIGA
Keith Blakemore-Noble
>
> [Flame suit on]
> *Sigh* Whats the point anymore? Whenever a company, connected with
the
> Amiga does anything (good, bad, or because they don`t have
resources...) They
> get slaged off, I`m surprised we have any companies left at all. If
you`re so
> angry
> at ClickBOOM, go and buy a god damn PC, AND PLAY PISSING
> QUAKE THERE! (Frankly, Quake`s crap anyway).
Calm down Andrew!!
I believe that what most people are annoyed at is CB's constant lies
over PPC Quake right fromthe start.
They promised us a PPC Quake, which was the reason many (myself
included) bought Amiga Quake in the first place.
CB never had any intention of producing PPCQuake, as we can see by
looking at their excuses over the past months.
And now, with the twat uploading the illegal version (which is, I am
happy to say, gone again), CB come out with the most crap argument ever
- they were just looking for ANY excuse to be able to drop any pretense
of PPC support.
THAT is what is pissing people off - CB promised us something, for which
we paid, and they renaged right from the start.
TTFN,
Keith
John Millington
: To those who hold the same views as mr Strauser - I`m sorry , but you cannot
: blame Clickboom for not producing the goods when there has been a pirate
: version floating around for months on end that most PPC users are quite happy
: to take with open arms. Clickboom don`t stand a chance.
That excuse doesn't make sense. There was also a stolen-source version of
Quake for the 68k, and when that appeared, it didn't make Clickboom decide
not to make Amiga Quake. Quite the opposite: it was the direct inspiration
for creating Amiga Quake. The availability of the stolen-source version
didn't hurt their sales -- it _created_ their sales. I bet that many of
Clickboom's Quake customers (like me, for example) ran the stolen-source
version until the day they got their package from Clickboom.
There's no reason why the PPC situation should be any different than the
68k version.
My totally-unfounded shot-in-the-dark unsubstantiated made-up theory is
this: Clickboom delayed release of PPC Quake because they wanted a Amiga
PPC board producer to _pay_ them to make it, or wanted to bundle it with
PPC boards. Put yourself in Phase 5's shoes for a minute: doesn't the
thought of PPC Quake make you drool? Think of what PPC Quake would do to
the sales of Amiga PPC boards! Now put yourself in Clickboom's shoes. You
know that if you sell PPC Quake, the hardware manufacturers are going to
rake in huge profits as everyone finally decides to put a PPC in their
Amiga. So what do you do? You approach a PPC board manufacturer (like
Phase 5, for example) and try to negotiate a deal: "If you give me so-many
dollars (or a cut of PPC sales, whatever), I, the company who has the rights
to Amiga Quake, will release a PPC version of Quake, thereby increasing
your sales by an order of magnitude."
Sounds like a good idea, actually. My guess (again, this is just a theory)
is that Clickboom approached Phase 5 with some kind of deal like that, and
Phase 5, in their usual cluelessness, turned 'em down. Maybe Phase 5
realized that they have always had trouble shipping products on time, and
that if their sales volume went up, it would just get worse. Only the
Amiga market makes such a mentality possible. ;-)
Yog-Sothoth Neblod Zin,
John Millington
John Millington
: Hang on, if ClickBoom never developed QuakePPC, how can it have been
: pirated? I didn't know it was possible to pirate something that does not
: exist. Or are you refering to piracy of the 68o60 version?
The 'pirate' versions of Quake are based on stolen _source_ code that
leaked about a year and half ago. When that source got out, someone
compiled it for the Amiga, and Amiga Quake because a reality. When
Clickboom saw the interest generated by this unlicensed port, they
talked to ID and got a license to make a 'legit' Quake port. Then
everyone ordered Quake from Clickboom and erased the unlicensed version
on the day that their package arrived from Clickboom. :-)
Unfortunately, Clickboom is pretending to think it won't work a second time.
John Millington
: How long would it have taken Clickboom
: to do a PPC version? With the Ami source code and a decent programmer, a
: few weeks at most. Sigh...
Oh come on. It doesn't take a few weeks to change a compiler option in
a make file. :-)
Chris Coulson
>There are *too* many of the Amiga PPC users who are, basically, very happy
>and contented playing illegal ports of software.
Nope, there are simply too many Amiga users happy to use illegal software.
That some of them are using PPC Amigas is by the by.
>These same PPC owners wont be prepared to buy the "Real Thing" as they never
>even had to buy the CB Amiga Quake in the first place!
*No-one* had to buy Amiga Quake, the illegal 68k port was available long
before CB got around to releasing their version. Yet people went out and
bought The Real Thing then...
>at that point in tiem, CB didnt know that there would be the illegal
>port floating around.
Then they`re stupid. They knew about the illegal 68k port before releasing
their official one, so why didn`t they consider the possibility that the
same would occur with the PPC version? Piracy/illegal recompiles isn`t
something that should take any softco by surprise, it should be something
they`ve already planned for when deciding whether or not to release a given
product. Particularly something like Quake, where the source code was
floating around just begging to be compiled for PPC.
>Times change. If too many of your targert audience are happy playing
>illegal software ports, then what do you do?
Make sure that the official release is better than the illegal port - how
fast and stable is this illegal version?
Of course, they should ideally have released the official port before the
illegal one, assuming an official version ever existed... if they`d been
working on Quake PPC for as long as they should have been, given the way
they were talking originally, then how come they`ve been beaten to the mark
by some part-time backroom coder?
>CB arent a charity. They dont have to do anything.
No, but they do/should have an obligation to satisfy those PPC users who,
in good faith based on what CB originally said, paid for Quake 68k. If
they aren`t prepared to release Quake PPC, then they should offer a full
money-back scheme.
>they can release PC/Mac software if they wanted to...
Of course they could, but if they pulled the same sort of stunt over in the
PC marketplace, they`d come under just as much fire as they have from the
Amiga community. Other companies who release nothing but PC software have
been roasted for failing to release upgrades that were originally promised,
why should CB get away without any fuss?
>they chose Amiga. I was happy with that.
>
>the way some people act towards them I wonder why they did.
Oh come on. It doesn`t matter which marketplace you enter, if a company
acts like this then their customers will respond accordingly. If you think
they`d have been better treated in the Mac or PC arenas, you`re sadly
mistaken.
>I also wonder if I want to be associated with a lot of the current Amiga
>owners I see frequenting these groups these days. They're giving not
>only the platform, but also all other users a bad name.
Funny, we`re saying exactly the same thing about some of the PC users
across in the flight-sim group... could it be that people are generally
getting so sick and tired of being effed around by softcos that we`re no
longer prepared to sit back and quietly let broken promises lie? Again,
it`s *not* an Amiga-specific thing, it`s happening everywhere.
Chris
--
+- The Best of Both Worlds...
|Amiga 4000/060 66MB/3.1GB/CV64 PII-300 64MB/9.5GB/MilleniumII|
|CyberSCSI/Zip/Vlab YC/4xCD Monster3D/24xCD/Zip+/AWE32 |
http://www.tornado.pair.com/ -+
John Millington
: What do you expect a commercial outfit to do. Dedicate their time to a
: market flooded with pirated versions of their software? And to make
: matters worse, the fps postings for the latest pirate version is
: faaaaasssst. This is a no win situation for CB or any commercial
: developer.
Joe, history contradicts you. Before Clickboom announced 68k Quake,
they market was _already_ flooded with an unlicensed 68k Quake. People
bought Clickboom's product anyway.
: Because this isn't a charity. These people are trying to earn money to
: make a living just like everyone else here!
If Clickboom wants to earn money, then why don't they SELL PPC QUAKE?!
: Someone floods the market
: with pirated versions of their latest product and some posters here are
: tripping over each other trying to flame CB the loudest. Can you
: imagine what any lurkers from potential Amiga developers would think?
They are probably thinking, "I can't believe Clickboom is wasting this
opportunity. If I had the rights to Quake, I would sell the product and
get rich instead of just sitting on it, doing nothing."
Timothy Rue
>[Flame suit on]
>*Sigh* Whats the point anymore? Whenever a company, connected with the
>Amiga does anything (good, bad, or because they don`t have resources...) They
>get slaged off, I`m surprised we have any companies left at all. If you`re so
>angry at ClickBOOM, go and buy a god damn PC, AND PLAY PISSING QUAKE THERE!
>(Frankly, Quake`s crap anyway).
>It`s days like this I wonder why I bother owning an Amiga at all...
>Thanks.
>Andrew Hutchins.
Maybe it's just because there is a general feeling something is not right?
I mean that no matter how you commit a wrong, it's still going to be
wrong.
So why don't the industry simply provide us with the easy enough to use
tools and tell use to do it ourselves. Perhaps they are afraid we will?
---
*3 S.E.A.S - Virtual Interaction Configuration (VIC) - VISION OF VISIONS!*
*~ ~ ~ Advancing How we Perceive and Use the Tool of Computers!*
Timothy Rue What's *DONE* in all we do? *AI PK OI IP OP SF IQ ID KE*
Email @ mailto:tim...@mindspring.com >INPUT->(Processing)->OUTPUT>v
Web @ http://www.mindspring.com/~timrue/ ^<--------<----9----<--------<
Search email/name @ http://www.dejanews.com for other puzzle parts/posts.
Ross Deeley
On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, joe wrote:
> Georg Rottlaender wrote:
> > Hello Kirk Strauser (tekn...@dialnet.net)!
> > On 6 Nov 1998 01:34:14 GMT you wrote:
> >
> > > Yeah, you read that correctly. They are whiners. This proves my point
> > > from all along: ClickBoom had NO intention whatsoever of fulfilling their
> > > contracts and producing their own QuakePPC.
> > >
> > > Think about it.
> >
> > I too believe that they never intented to release QuakePPC.
>
> And the fact that this is the single most pirated Amiga game in the
> history of the platform had nothing to do with it. The brashness of the
Hang on, if ClickBoom never developed QuakePPC, how can it have been
pirated? I didn't know it was possible to pirate something that does not
exist. Or are you refering to piracy of the 68o60 version?
/=============================================================\
| Ross Deeley voice +646-877-5959 |
| |
| BASEBaud BBS 2400-28k8 +646-877-4294 |
| |
| ros...@ramhb.co.nz /[][] Ross |
| |
| "The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens." |
| -- Baha'u'llah |
| |
\=============================================================/
Keith Blakemore-Noble
> So F******g true. I agree with your comments 100%
> I am so sick and tired of reading posts from whiners.
Sorry Mikey, I have to disagree with you in this *particular* case.
What us "whiners" are complaining about in this *particular* case is a
certain software developer who promises a PPC version of their
software. On the basis of this promise (including at one point their
claim they woudl ship the PPC version with the standard version, ISTR),
many PPC owners (myself included) pre-ordered Quake.
CB have since then refused to bother doing their promised PPC port and
have just come out with lame excuse after lame excuse, and then, when
some tw@t uploaded a pirate PPC version (remember, these versions have
been floating around for a while), CB sieze this as an excuse to pull
out of their promise.
Now, remember, they primised the PPC version.
Many people bought SOLELY on that promise.
PPC pirate versions have been round for ages but CB did not use that as
an excuse to break their promise until now.
Hell, there were illegal 68k Quakes floating around, but CB still
(thankfully) did the 68k Quake.
So WHY are they refusing to fulfil their promise for which they happily
took our money?
That is why some of us are, as you put it, "whinging".
Effectivly, CB took our money under false pretenses, and you want us to
just roll over and keep quiet?
Sorry, but in this *particualr* case, I agree totally with the "whiners"
- we owe CB no favours, as they have broken their promise.
> Give it a break guys, sell your miggy to someone and move on.
Mikey, please explain to me exactly why I shoudl ditch my Amiga and buy
a PC because ClickBoom lied and let us down?? Sorry, I do not follow
your logic. If I wanted a PC, I'd buy one. I don't. I want my Amiga.
I wanted PPCQuake so I paid for it. CB let me down. End of story!
> I bet three months of using a PC, day in and day out, will make you
> miss your Amiga
Doh!!
Pay attention Mikey!! We donot WANT fscking PCs!!!
We want the software we were promised and for which we paid. Nothing
more, nothing less.
Where is the crime in that Mikey?
Sorry, I have to disagree with you 100% on this *particular* issue.
TTFN,
Keith
Ross Deeley
On 6 Nov 1998, John Millington wrote:
> Ross Deeley (ros...@ramhb.co.nz) wrote:
> : Hang on, if ClickBoom never developed QuakePPC, how can it have been
> : pirated? I didn't know it was possible to pirate something that does not
> : exist. Or are you refering to piracy of the 68o60 version?
>
> The 'pirate' versions of Quake are based on stolen _source_ code that
> leaked about a year and half ago. When that source got out, someone
> compiled it for the Amiga, and Amiga Quake because a reality. When
> Clickboom saw the interest generated by this unlicensed port, they
> talked to ID and got a license to make a 'legit' Quake port. Then
So this 'pirate' version is in fact not a 'theft' from ClickBoom, but a
'theft' from the company that wrote Quake for the PC. (ID software?)
Therefore its up to (ID software) to go after these 'pirates', not CB.
> everyone ordered Quake from Clickboom and erased the unlicensed version
> on the day that their package arrived from Clickboom. :-)
>
> Unfortunately, Clickboom is pretending to think it won't work a second time.
Do you people that bought Quake 0x0 form CB have it 'in writing' that they
were going to to a PPC version?
Sounds like you need to sue them for breach of contract.
(I'd just like to point out that I have no axe to grind on this issue, I
am not interested in Quake, and don't have a PPC card.
joe
On Fri, 06 Nov 1998 20:45:19 +0100, Johan Ronnblom wrote about Re: Amiga users are a bunch of whiners.:
> Andrew Hutchins wrote:
> >
> > [Flame suit on]
> > *Sigh* Whats the point anymore? Whenever a company, connected with the
> > Amiga does anything (good, bad, or because they don`t have
> > resources...) They get slaged off, I`m surprised we have any companies > left at all. If you`re so angry at ClickBOOM, go and buy a god damn
> > PC, AND PLAY PISSING QUAKE THERE! (Frankly, Quake`s crap anyway).
> > [Flame suit off]
> >
> > It`s days like this I wonder why I bother owning an Amiga at all...
>
> ClickBoom are making business by taking preorders for unfinished
> products. Those of us "whining" about them are doing so because we
> wanted to support them and thus paid them, but never got what we paid
> for. Is it so hard to understand that we're pissed? Should we just be
> happy and keep sending them our money?
>
> If you think so, please send me some money as well. I'll send you a
> great Amiga game if you do. Really. But don't be too pissed if I break
> the promise. And if you're not prepared to send me money.. well then "go
> and buy a god damn PC, AND PLAY PISSING QUAKE THERE!".
Only if you 1st release a working full version of the game and then
let us spread the pirate all over the world. Or basically, just let
us sabotage your means of making a living, paying your bills, feeding
your family, etc. Yeah, that should encourage you to make more software!!!joe
joe
On Fri, 6 Nov 1998 14:59:32 -0600, "Kirk Strauser" wrote about Re: ClickBoom are a bunch of whiners:
> joe wrote:
>
> >OK. We disagree. And my last sentence in that paragraph was
> >regretable. My anger is directed at the idiot who stole and posted all
> >the pirated software in the 1st place.
>
> Hey, I understand. Really, I do. But the sad truth is that noone will
> ever
> convince me that CB had *any* intention of ever doing a PPC version.
> I firmly believe that was nothing more than a pathetic (yet successful)
> attempt to woo buyers.
There were a lot of other factors. My next sentence is sure to start the
flames my way. Back when Quake was released Phase5's PowerUP system
software was a disaster. Next, H&P's more stable WarpOS was deliberately
sobotaged by Phase5. PirateQuake 1st started to appear. A false message
of cooperating with H&P was delivered in May by Phase5. Not forgetting
that the stable FlashROMs and 060 libraries didn't appear until July 11.
Next up, Pirate Quake is getting good - damn good by the postings. A
literal consensus of support for it on the ngs didn't help. Next OS3.5
is announced with new PPC standard (actually a good thing). And uploading
the latest version to the largest shareware network on the planet didn't
help matters either.
We recognize each others posts enough to know that my last paragraph
is pretty close to the hurdles involved with PPC programming and more
specifically to PPC Quake. From a financial POV, any commercial developer
trying to develop a PPC program in that environment will have a very tough
lean time. No matter what CB does, they loose. And did I forget to
mention how certain CGX software *deliberately* trashes on P96?
It does not matter which side of these issues you're on (we're usually
on opposite sides), they exist, they're plentiful, and they hurt
commercial PPC software development.
> I already did, Joe. That was why I bought Quake from ClickBoom; they
> flat-out stated that the purchase price included a copy of QuakePPC
> as soon as it wass finished.
No doubt the cost of development skyrocketed given the PPC situation.
Normal business practice is to pass that on to the customer. But that's
probably another North American concept.
> >You're on thin ice here. There are no warranties express or implied.
>
> While I understand what you're saying in a general case, this was a very
> specific arrangement. My original agreement with ClickBoom (the contract
> that resulted in money changing hands) was that they were going to give
> me a copy of QuakePPC. That's *not* an exaggeration. Those were the
> exact terms of the purchase.
Given the development costs and changing PPC standards, FlashROMs, etc
It seems a bit unreasonable. Even so, there is NO contract. PPC may
be released if enough interest is shown won't help much in the US.
And all software is sold "as is" in North America. No express warranties
implied. We even have some nonsense that states that the software developer
is not liable for any damage or loss of information resulting from the
use of their software. How do you think Gates stays in business???
*I'm not making this up.* I've read it on everything from Netscape to
Windows. As I stated previously, if you're a betting man, you'd loose
in North America. Maybe if you got the developer to sign the contract
you would have a chance.
> USA law is largely descended from English Common Law, and I presume
> that Contract Law is much the same in most 1st-world countries. Simply
> put, CB did *not* uphold their end of an explicit contract.
Right now, at this instant, I'm holding both the Myst and Quake packages
in my hands. There is no contract at all. In fact PPC is not even
mentioned ANYWHERE. Not in the manual, box, paperwork, or even the SERIAL
number.
The nearest instance was a posting on their web page a long time ago that
IF there was sufficient interest, a PPC version MAY be produced. And yes,
it would be lower priority than a PPC version of Myst. None of this
was garaunteed. Unstable PPC software, FlashROMs, libraries, competing
interests, and graphics systems all helped along with pirate Quake to
kill it. Seriously, I know you have a PPC card and you know I have an
Mk3 card. We both follow the PPC saga very closely. We disagree on the
specifics (I prefer WarpUP and P96 - you PowerUP and CGX), but these competing
interests along with many other conflicts make commercial PPC development
an expensive and serious risk.
Now before you think this pleases me, *it doesn't.* Finally, something
new and fast shows up on the Amiga PPC horizon and the sh?t hits the
fan. So no, I'm not happy. But I don't think CB is responsible for more
than successfull and highly entertaining Amiga ports of 2 very popular
software packages............joe
joe
On 6 Nov 1998 21:58:45 GMT, John Millington wrote about Re: ClickBoom are a bunch of whiners:
> joe (e...@epix.net) wrote:
> : What do you expect a commercial outfit to do. Dedicate their time to a
> : market flooded with pirated versions of their software? And to make
> : matters worse, the fps postings for the latest pirate version is
> : faaaaasssst. This is a no win situation for CB or any commercial
> : developer.
>
> Joe, history contradicts you. Before Clickboom announced 68k Quake,
> they market was _already_ flooded with an unlicensed 68k Quake. People
> bought Clickboom's product anyway.
Pirate Quake is damn good by all postings. Highly optimized and fast.
68k pirate was not flooding the market and by all postings a completely
unplayble piece of garbage. Hell, several posters here say the current
68k is garbage (naturally I disagree).
> : Because this isn't a charity. These people are trying to earn money to
> : make a living just like everyone else here!
>
> If Clickboom wants to earn money, then why don't they SELL PPC QUAKE?!
I sincerely believe that with all the conflicts in the PPC market that
they SHOULD sell PPC Quake. However, we are in the minority here. The
piracy is only the last straw. I've been on this list long enough to
remember the PPC situation last Spring. Without picking sides in any
of the conflicts you have to agree that PPC has allways had problems
from just about every possible source. Commercial development simply
can't exist in that environment.
> : Someone floods the market
> : with pirated versions of their latest product and some posters here are
> : tripping over each other trying to flame CB the loudest. Can you
> : imagine what any lurkers from potential Amiga developers would think?
>
> They are probably thinking, "I can't believe Clickboom is wasting this
> opportunity. If I had the rights to Quake, I would sell the product and
> get rich instead of just sitting on it, doing nothing."
Well, as CB stated, it was the last straw. But there were plenty of
existing straws leading up to that point. WarpUP, CGX, FlashROMs, libraries,
etc etc. We have posted to both sides of all those issues since last
Spring. Rehashing solves nothing. Acknowledging all the ongoing
problems at least leads to an understanding.........joe
Alan L.M. Buxey
: Hang on, if ClickBoom never developed QuakePPC, how can it have been
: pirated? I didn't know it was possible to pirate something that does not
: exist. Or are you refering to piracy of the 68o60 version?
piarcy is when you steal someone elses code or pogram. AQuakePPC uses
iD's code that was stolen. Its not stealing from ClickBOOM per se, (you
can think it is as they were to try to do a PPC version) but it is still
piracy and illegal code...you know, the sort of code that can get a BBS
terminated or FTP/WWW site closed
alan
Tommy Hwang
that the new Amiga II will not be PPC (I do believe that it
was announced somewhere, maybe a rumor, but a convincing one),
and Phase5 is the only PPC accelerator, the market would be
temporary, limited, and unprofitable.
Though the PPC version is not a concern to me, I personally
would blam the pirate who uploaded the PPC port to the ftp site.
Alexander Chaney
slo...@rt66.com (John Millington) writes:
>222 226546 <71vovb$mcl$1...@news.rt66.com>
>admv...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>: To those who hold the same views as mr Strauser - I`m sorry , but you cannot
>: blame Clickboom for not producing the goods when there has been a pirate
>: version floating around for months on end that most PPC users are quite happy
>: to take with open arms. Clickboom don`t stand a chance.
>
>That excuse doesn't make sense. There was also a stolen-source version of
>Quake for the 68k, and when that appeared, it didn't make Clickboom decide
>not to make Amiga Quake. Quite the opposite: it was the direct inspiration
>for creating Amiga Quake. The availability of the stolen-source version
>didn't hurt their sales -- it _created_ their sales. I bet that many of
>Clickboom's Quake customers (like me, for example) ran the stolen-source
>version until the day they got their package from Clickboom.
>
>There's no reason why the PPC situation should be any different than the
>68k version.
>
Thank You! That's exactly on the money. That same STUPID comment about the 68K version could have been used then, but they still made and sold their own version.
I purchase all of my software, shareware or commercial, and even though I was running the illegal version of Quake, when it finally arrived, I bought it. In fact I bought all of Clickboom's games and planned on buying the Napalm, but after that rather STUPID comment on their web site, I must say FUCK THEM!!
Someone did what they couldn't, now they slam this shit in our face. I KNOW they never intended to create their own version. If they did, it would be out by now or at least almost out.
Ed Collins
> If you think so, please send me some money as well. I'll send you a
> > great Amiga game if you do. Really. But don't be too pissed if I break
> > the promise. And if you're not prepared to send me money.. well then "go
> > and buy a god damn PC, AND PLAY PISSING QUAKE THERE!".
>
> Only if you 1st release a working full version of the game and then
> let us spread the pirate all over the world. Or basically, just let
There was no working full version when they promised the PPC version
to be included.
> us sabotage your means of making a living, paying your bills, feeding
> your family, etc. Yeah, that should encourage you to make more software!!!joe
Whatever. If they had the guts to say they needed a new license from
ID to do a PPC version and this wouldn't be finacially viable, then I
would understand perfectly. But they didn't. They made excuses as to
why it didn't appear like the promised Myst PPC version they were
working on and we are waiting for too. Any news from them on the
status of that or if they changed their mind ? No.
Just this easy excuse as to why they won't do a PPC version. A good
half year or more wait for a version they say now they won't done
because of the aminet upload when the quake code is very portable and
could be as jyrki says be recompiled in a few hours (or days) to PPC.
Ed.
--
________ _________
\___ \ / \ / ___// HOME http://www.d-n-a.net/users/dnetEFoE/
| \ \\_/\_// __// CEG: http://www.explorer2260.home.ml.org/
|_ /__\____/_// TWF: http://www.worldfoundry.home.ml.org/
The World Foundry - Amiga PPC - Explorer 2260
Ninoslav Budjak
> Let me make one thing perfectly clear, though: this is NOT an indictment
> against ANY other Amiga developers. Guys, you're working hard to give us
> top-of-the-line software, and I appreciate it in writing, verbally, and
> with my money. My quarrel is VERY specific to ClickBoom's actions or
> lack thereof, and in NO way should reflect on anyone else.
> In closing, if you're from ClickBoom and reading this:
> You're a bunch of lousy little thieves, and you can all kiss my ass.
Unfortunately, ClickBoom has a very little to do with *actual* and *real*
Amiga developers, IMHO. They are a very good and extremely successful
marketing company (considering the # of people employed) with some good
ideas that work and some initial love for Amiga. BUT! The actual developers
IMHO (& info I have from some other sources) are all _external_ and just
cooperate with ClickBoom. Or rather ClickBoom employs their skills, tailors
it a bit and *presents* it in excellent way to the Amiga community.
So, IMO its rather safe to say something to (and about) ClickBoom that will
in any way relate to any of development teams (or solo programmers) they
work with.
And although I do not own PPC, I agree with you almost completely regarding
their change of plans about PPC versions of their SW.
And just one additional note: They are NOT in position to make promises
about high quality of their PPC code and certainly they were not in that
position in the past, because the development teams they deal with are IMHO
NOT skillful in PPC code, if they even OWN a PPC boards (& SW tools) in
sufficient quantities to develop a PPC versions of their completed games.
That was (& is) ClickBooms main problem regarding the PPC development,
IMHO.
And advice to the dev. teams working "for" ClickBoom is to think about
switching the publisher if they think they can be so good in PPC C code as
they are in 68K assem code, and if they think the only thing they need is a
sponsored PPC board (partly or completely). Maybe some other amiga company
will provide'em with the boards. But learning PPC assem will certainly be a
bit harder task... and a MUCH slower process, xexe. ;-)
Advice of the day for ClickBoom: get yourself a developers which CAN handle
a PPC code, and don't rely on your local hackers to do the development
beyond their skills or point of interest. Or, if you do, then STIMULATE
them high enough to learn the new and do the job when they are ready!
And next time think hard about what you promise to the ppl buying your
software.
Ah, I feel better now... so enough sh#?... :) Vooooooshhhhhh! O:-)
--
Antispam: replace "-" with "." in e-mail address to correct (if needed)
The one who believes in creativity, individuality, rebellion,
and the unique.
Kirk Strauser
> "Kirk Strauser" wrote:
>> Hey, I understand. Really, I do. But the sad truth is that noone will
>> ever convince me that CB had *any* intention of ever doing a PPC version.
>> I firmly believe that was nothing more than a pathetic (yet successful)
>> attempt to woo buyers.
>There were a lot of other factors. My next sentence is sure to start the
>flames my way. Back when Quake was released Phase5's PowerUP system
>software was a disaster.
That's not flame-worthy. I don't think anyone will argue otherwise.
>We recognize each others posts enough to know that my last paragraph
>is pretty close to the hurdles involved with PPC programming and more
>specifically to PPC Quake.
I belive that all of those observations are correct. However, if that's
truly what prevented CB from releasing QuakePPC, they should've said as
much.
>And did I forget to mention how certain CGX software *deliberately* trashes
>on P96?
Mmmm.... While that's true, I'm not sure I understand the relevance.
>It does not matter which side of these issues you're on (we're usually
>on opposite sides)...
I don't believe so, Joe. I think we probably agree on a lot more than
you imagine. Apropos to this discussion: we're both *very* anti-piracy.
However, we just happen to differ on the definition of piracy - in this
one particular instance.
>No doubt the cost of development skyrocketed given the PPC situation.
>Normal business practice is to pass that on to the customer. But that's
>probably another North American concept.
Erm, I'm a US resident. I'm familiar with the practice. :)
However, another N.A. concept: when you agree to a contract, the other
party need not be concerned about the details on your side; you're
supposed to take care of them. While I can understand some of the
pressures on CB, frankly, that's their problem and not mine.
>Even so, there is NO contract.
Actually, there really is. I know that we've tossed this back and forth
a few times, but here's the full story of what happened. This is *not* an
exaggerated version, either. I'm being very straight-forward.
1. CB made the announcement that they were porting Quake. I thought,
"that's interesting! Cool!"
2. A little bit later, CB said, explicitly, that they had news for PPC
owners: if you pre-paid for Quake, you'd get QuakePPC on the CD when they
started shipping, or at the very latest a few days later. It *was* being
worked on, and they just had to finish debugging it.
3. I sent my credit card info within 20 minutes.
4. A couple of months later, soon after my 0x0 CD arrived, CB's story
started to change. That's were my original post came in.
>PPC may be released if enough interest is shown won't help much in
>the US.
I agree, but that wasn't the sales offer. They explicitly, in writing,
stated that by pre-paying for Quake, I was to receive a copy of QuakePPC.
>And all software is sold "as is" in North America. No express warranties
>implied.
I understand that, but I paid for software that now doesn't exist.
>How do you think Gates stays in business???* I'm not making this up.*
Exactly. Ask yourself, though: is that what *we* want from Amiga
software houses?
>Right now, at this instant, I'm holding both the Myst and Quake packages
>in my hands. There is no contract at all. In fact PPC is not even
>mentioned ANYWHERE. Not in the manual, box, paperwork, or even the SERIAL
>number.
But it was on their web page, and in all of the promo e-mails they sent
out way-back-when.
>Now before you think this pleases me, *it doesn't*.
I wouldn't imagine so.
>But I don't think CB is responsible for more than successfull and highly
>entertaining Amiga ports of 2 very popular software packages.
Well, I suppose that now we know each other's points of view. You have
your reasons, I have mine. Understand, then, why I will go out of my way
to discourage as many people as possible from making the same mistake that
I did: believing that ClickBoom has any intention of keeping their word.
--
Kirk Strauser Member // http://members.dialnet.net/teknique/
Team AMIGA \X/ http://csc.smsu.edu/~strauser/RA.html
"Classic" 3000/060/50/604e/200/176MB/Picasso II/IOExtender/Major Attitude
D. Domínguez
*Ross Deeley* <ros...@ramhb.co.nz> said into
"comp.sys.amiga.misc" (06-Nov-98 17:06:45)
about "Re: ClickBoom are a bunch of whiners":
RD> Hang on, if ClickBoom never developed QuakePPC, how can it have
RD> been pirated? I didn't know it was possible to pirate something
RD> that does not exist. Or are you refering to piracy of the 68o60
Because, this imply what some persons don't respect the third parts
rights (the reasons for this behaviour or the company affected isn't
relevant): this facts signals what tomorrow or the next century,
somebody will usurpate the programmer's rights and will code a patch
for skip the original protection or will re-use some copyrighted
graphics/sounds without permission in a own production or will add
the main music at your Web page,... some Amiga coders can create new
programs even when they knows the market (poor sales, low profit)...
but if some works (*) aren't respected... their works could not be
respected and this is unaceptable because their status isn't PD.
(*) GIF/RealAudio/ICQ
algorithms/formats
i.e. needs licenses...
See you later | Nos leemos...
Fido 2:348/613.44 - AmyComSys <AmiSpaTra>
--
... #Nombre de usu@rio cifrado con 'rot13'/User n@me encrypted with 'rot13'#
admv...@my-dejanews.com
D
In article <71umbi$q13$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
sca...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <71tjmm$ji6$1...@ns2.dialnet.net>,
> Kirk Strauser <tekn...@dialnet.net> wrote:
> > Yeah, you read that correctly. They are whiners. This proves my point
> > from all along: ClickBoom had NO intention whatsoever of fulfilling their
> > contracts and producing their own QuakePPC.
> > I, for one, will NEVER buy another clickBoom game, ever. They can
> > go out of business for all I care. In closing, if you're from
> > ClickBoom and reading this:
> >
> > You're a bunch of lousy little thieves, and you can all kiss my
> > ass.
> >
> > Kirk Strauser
> > Member Team AMIGA
>
> Absolutely damn right, and since clickBoom have decided to delete my
> comments from their forum, I will reproduce them here.
>
> Well, clickBoom have really shot themselves in the foot this time. I
> like many others, bought Quake on the promise of a PPC version and now
> that it isn't going to happen, I'm going to hurt clickBoom/PXL
> where it hurts them the most. I'm going to vote with my wallet and
> never purchase a clickBoom/PXL product ever again. I've cancelled
> my Napalm pre-order, they won't see my money again.
> I foolishly thought the the clickBoom merchandise was even going to
> finance a QuakePPC version,(like Hi-Toro did with Lorraine).But now I
> hope they DO leave the Amiga market, or even better go out of
> business. They even have the nerve to say "don't flame us about this
> decision". I have every goddamn right to. I bought their product, I
> paid for their wages.
>
> I DEMAND AN OFFICIAL PPC VERSION OF QUAKE!!
>
> Damn you clickBoom/PXL, Damn you all to hell.
>
> Extremely bitter and disillusioned.
>
> scania
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Steve Matty
> The PPC version is Piracy - there are no other possible ways to view it. Its
> damaging Clickboom , its damaging future game development , and its damaging
> the amiga and honest users.
Why? It seems unlikely that Clickboom did any major work on writing a
PPC version.
> To those who hold the same views as mr Strauser - I`m sorry , but you cannot
> blame Clickboom for not producing the goods when there has been a pirate
> version floating around for months on end that most PPC users are quite happy
> to take with open arms. Clickboom don`t stand a chance.
I was one of the many who tried out the various illegal 68k Quakes
such as CoolQuake, DC-Quake etc but I also bought the legit Quake
from Clickboom. They have my money, they said that the PPC port would be
FREE so how are they losing money?
The way I see it - if I have the legit Quake on CD then there is nothing
*morally* wrong with using an illegal PPC executable. The .pak files
are all legit and Clickboom have gotten the money.
Regards,
Steve.
Steve Matty
[..snip..]
> There are *too* many of the Amiga PPC users who are, basically, very happy
> and contented playing illegal ports of software. These same PPC owners
> wont be prepared to buy the "Real Thing" as they never even had to buy
> the CB Amiga Quake in the first place!
Can you quote some figures/sources for this statement? Every person
I know that has the PiratePPC Quake has bought the Clickboom 68k
version (fancy downloading 40mb of .pak files?)
> Times change. If too many of your targert audience are happy playing
> illegal software ports, then what do you do?
The .exe maybe pirate but the datafiles were bought from clickBOOM.
QuakePPC was supposed to be free so where are they losing money?
Steve.
Andrew Hutchins
Johan Ronnblom wrote:
> ClickBoom are making business by taking preorders for unfinished
> products. Those of us "whining" about them are doing so because we
> wanted to support them and thus paid them, but never got what we paid
> for. Is it so hard to understand that we're pissed? Should we just be
> happy and keep sending them our money?
You paid for the Quake 68k version, does anyone actually have,in writing a promise from clickBOOM for the PPC version?
> If you think so, please send me some money as well. I'll send you a
> great Amiga game if you do. Really. But don't be too pissed if I break
> the promise. And if you're not prepared to send me money.. well then "go
> and buy a god damn PC, AND PLAY PISSING QUAKE THERE!".
I don`t want a PC. Your sentence dosn`t make sense. As it`s obviousyou do not have the resources to produce a game, also, I don`t want Quake.
> The original poster pointed out quite clearly that he is pissed at
> ClickBoom specifically, and that he has no problems with Amiga companies
> in general.
My point was that most of the `communite` has a grievence with someone,
the original poster, perhaps only with ClickBOOM, but for every
amiga company that does something, there is always at least one
person who will slag them off publicly in these NG`s. I`m just very tired.
It`s too much to expect PC quality service from companies with
near charity profit margins.
> Like him, and others who have followed up, I'm starting to
> wonder if my money wouldn't be better spent with other Amiga companies.
> Anyway, I agree. Quake's crap, sort of. I bought it to support what I
> thought was an innovative Amiga games company.
clickBOOM still are an innovative company.
Thanks.
Andrew Hutchins.
Andrew Hutchins
Georg Rottlaender wrote:
> What a bullshit!
Hello!
Nice constructive reply, almost as constructive as my original post, whoops!
Thanks.,
Andrew Hutchins.
Andrew Hutchins
Mikey C wrote:
> So F******g true. I agree with your comments 100%
> I am so sick and tired of reading posts from whiners.
>
> Give it a break guys, sell your miggy to someone and move on.
Bit drastic that...
Basically, just don`t expect so much from such small companies all of the time.
The market simply does not support the asked for quality.
> I bet three months of using a PC, day in and day out, will make you
> miss your Amiga
>
> > It`s days like this I wonder why I bother owning an Amiga at all...
>
> Huh at least you have an Amiga, mine took to smoking last night. :(
> Seems rather dead today. :(
OOps...
> Anyhow nice to see you back again.
Only here temporarily, I`ve taken to watching more these days,because most of the
arguments are pointless, this one just made my blood boil
momentarily. This year three degree lark, isn`t very funny at all.
Nice to read you too.
Thanks.
Andrew Hutchins.
- Off to kill some snails... -
dpence
Ummmmmm Not having played either, how exactly is this considered piracy?
did someone crack and steal the Clickboom code? or did they just write
there own version? Don't get me wrong I am just curious.
Chris Sherlock
It's an Intellectual Property thing. ClickBoom have/had the rights to
Quake for Amiga. (I understand that they got source from iD?)
The 'pirate' version has in some fashion negated their investment
in the licence. Hence, a lot of people would say 'piracy'.
Although it does sound like a cop out at the same time... if they're
so far along with a PPC version (and they should be), they
should finish and release the product anyway to try and recoup
some of the dev costs.
StephenTownend
owners get at
budget prices, just because the Amiga gets Quake & Myst a few years later.
joe
On Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:02:19 -0800, StephenTownend wrote about Re: ClickBoom are a bunch of whiners:
> Clickbomb also think they can get away with charging full price for a game, PC
> owners get at
> budget prices, just because the Amiga gets Quake & Myst a few years later.
In case you haven't yet noticed, the same applies to ALL Amiga developers
of both software and hardware. I won't delve into market size and the
laws of supply and demand. If you want to pay less for your hardware
and software there is only one market that will suit you. bye.....joe
hfri...@uni-trier.de
> Clickbomb also think they can get away with charging full price for a game, PC
> owners get at
> budget prices, just because the Amiga gets Quake & Myst a few years later.
If you are out of that, you are in the wrong market.
This is typical, you think that just because it's a port of an existing
game, you should get it for a budget price. Ever asked yourself how much
CB had to pay to iD for the licence?
Regards, Hans-Joerg.
--
hfri...@uni-trier.de | "Why is it, that the years seem to fly past,
Co-Author of ADescent +-+ while a night might seem to last forever?"
and Warp3D. Visit us at +------------------+ Elminster, Sage of
www.informatik.uni-trier.de/CIP/tfrieden | Shadowdale
Christopher Aymar
Jesus H. Christ.... we're talking computers and video games here, not politics. I understand you've paid your money and you want your game, but damn, when Clickboom announced the porting of Quake, they never said "We're working on a PPC version and it should be out soon". Some of the magazines mentioned something like that, but that NEVER came out of Clickboom's mouth.
And anyway, if you really want to play Quake on your PPC, c'mon... it's not THAT hard to find the "unofficial" PPC version.
Kirk Strauser
>Jesus H. Christ.... we're talking computers and video games here, not
>politics. I understand you've paid your money and you want your game, but
>damn, when Clickboom announced the porting of Quake, they never said
>"We're working on a PPC version and it should be out soon". Some of the
>magazines mentioned something like that, but that NEVER came out of
>Clickboom's mouth.
That's incorrect. ClickBoom made that announcement themselves, on their
web page, and in e-mail.
>And anyway, if you really want to play Quake on your PPC, c'mon... it's
>not THAT hard to find the "unofficial" PPC version.
Yeah, but then self-appointed moral guardians accuse you of piracy. Sigh.
This pretty much closes my contribution to the matter, though; you're not
allowed to criticize Amiga companies anymore. If they're doing something
you don't like, then your attitudes are wrong, and you should buy a PC and
move on. All Amiga companies are benevolent, trustworthy organizations who
always do as they've promised, and if you think otherwise, then you
mis-understood their words. PC'ers are blind sheep following Bill Gates.
Amigans are independent. Hail Amiga.
joe
> Christopher Aymar wrote:
>
> >Jesus H. Christ.... we're talking computers and video games here, not
> >politics. I understand you've paid your money and you want your game, but
> >damn, when Clickboom announced the porting of Quake, they never said
> >"We're working on a PPC version and it should be out soon". Some of the
> >magazines mentioned something like that, but that NEVER came out of
> >Clickboom's mouth.
>
> That's incorrect. ClickBoom made that announcement themselves, on their
> web page, and in e-mail.
They actually wrote if "enough interest was shown." But there is a lot
more going on here than low numbers of PPC or piracy. ClickBoom also
wrote piracy was only the "last straw." Whatever CB's reasoning it is
supposed to be posted on The Newt. At that point everyone can stop all
the supposition and then we'll have all new flame attacks at CB for
other reasons. Noone wins.
> Yeah, but then self-appointed moral guardians accuse you of piracy. Sigh.
It has nothing to do with morality and EVERYTHING to do with Commercial
developers. Tell id that Quake has been pirated all over the PPC market
and do you think they will want to release more games? I'm purposefully
avoiding any statement that can be contrued as inflamatory. These are
serious market concerns and no past action (buggy flashroms, libs,
sabotaged software, etc) is going to concern id. All they will see is
an excuse to hold back. Then there's the low market. Amiga is small
enough as it is but PPC is so much smaller with complaints of no product
to even buy if you want it. For reference call Amiga PPC dealers and
read the csa marketplace. Most anti-CB posters have been so caught up
in the piracy thread that they do not conceed any other problems with
PPC. That's too easy.
> This pretty much closes my contribution to the matter, though; you're not
> allowed to criticize Amiga companies anymore. If they're doing something
> you don't like, then your attitudes are wrong, and you should buy a PC and
> move on.
This is a reference to several different threads and not CB. The "but a
PC" statements were made in reference to high priced Amiga peripherals.
As for criticizing Amiga companies, all the Quake threads completely
ignore the PPC hardware and software problems and marketshare. I can't
recall anyone other than myself bringing up these points. The quake
works on "powerup.library" is ignoring a serious breech in the small PPC
market. It wouldn't be so bad if sabotage weren't introduced into the
mix. Again, nothing I've written here is purposefully inflamatory
against any particular poster. There's just a lot more going on here
than piracy.
> All Amiga companies are benevolent, trustworthy organizations who
> always do as they've promised, and if you think otherwise, then you
> mis-understood their words. PC'ers are blind sheep following Bill Gates.
> Amigans are independent. Hail Amiga.
Yeah, I'm gonna let that slide. It's just flamebait but it's not worth
repeating what has been posted time and again. But try to keep in mind
that many of us Amiga users are also pc users. It does no good to flame
me for using a pc and since win95 the pc has improved quite a bit. I
still prefer Amiga but I also use PCs. Anyone involved in any branch of
engineering would be hard pressed to avoid using a PC but that is only
my opinion...............joe
Keith Blakemore-Noble
> Kirk Strauser wrote:
> > Christopher Aymar wrote:
> >
> > >Jesus H. Christ.... we're talking computers and video games here,
> > >not politics. I understand you've paid your money and you want
> > >your game, but damn, when Clickboom announced the porting of
> > >Quake, they never said "We're working on a PPC version and it
> > >should be out soon". Some of the magazines mentioned something
> > >like that, but that NEVER came out of Clickboom's mouth.
> >
> > That's incorrect. ClickBoom made that announcement themselves, on
> > their web page, and in e-mail.
>
> They actually wrote if "enough interest was shown."
Sorry Joe, but they did actually state they WOULD be shipping PPC
Quake.
As Kirk says, they stated it on their web page - I wish I'd kept a copy
of that bloody page now, but I somewhat foolishly believed that
ClickBoom meant what they wrote, rather than just writing it in order
to con me and others out of money (I pre-ordered Quake solely because
ofthe PPC version - had I known it woudl be 68k only, I'd not have
ordered it.).
One piece of potentially good news though - I note that another Amiga
company are planning to try to negotiate with ID to get teh rights to
do a PPC-only port of Quake2 - yipee! :)
TTFN,
Keith
--
http://www.BuiltWithAmiga.org Member of Team *AMIGA* and ICOA
joe
On Fri, 20 Nov 1998 23:29:33 GMT, Keith Blakemore-Noble wrote about Re: ClickBoom are a bunch of whiners:
> "joe" == "joe" writes:
>
> > Kirk Strauser wrote:
> > > Christopher Aymar wrote:
> > >
> > > >Jesus H. Christ.... we're talking computers and video games here,
> > > >not politics. I understand you've paid your money and you want
> > > >your game, but damn, when Clickboom announced the porting of
> > > >Quake, they never said "We're working on a PPC version and it
> > > >should be out soon". Some of the magazines mentioned something
> > > >like that, but that NEVER came out of Clickboom's mouth.
> > >
> > > That's incorrect. ClickBoom made that announcement themselves, on
> > > their web page, and in e-mail.
> >
> > They actually wrote if "enough interest was shown."
>
> Sorry Joe, but they did actually state they WOULD be shipping PPC
> Quake.
I didn't see that posted. But I won't argue the issue since it matters
little these days. Best to wait for The Newt. At least you will know
the rest of the story from their POV. CB does not post in these ngs
and hasn't had a chance to reply to most of the accusations flying around
here. It's pretty much been a free for all with CB being the scapegoat
in the ngs. I still feel there's more to this than piracy. But that
is the only thing anyone here wants to post about.........joe