Amiga Technology is insulting!!
PETER SINCLAIR-DAY
a recent confidential Apple technology/marketing seminar)...
MacWeek states Apple will revamp their PCI Macs in April by offering more power
at the same price points as the previous models that will be replaced..
PM 7600 will use 120 mhz 604. Price is around $3000 for a configuration with 16
megs ram, 1 gig and 4x cdrom.. Currently a A4000t has a price tag of around
$2800 for a slow 040!
PM 7200 will use a 120 mhz 601 and the harddrive will be boosted to 1.2gig.
Price, $1900...Currently a A4000t has a price tag of around $2800 for a slow
040!
MacWeek also states that the PM 8500 and 9500 will have higher clock speeds..
PowerComputing will announce price drops for their PowerWave line...
The PowerWave 120(604-120mhz.) has been reduced to $2799 with 16 megs, 1 gig,
video board, keyboard and software bundle.. Currently a A4000t has a price tag
of around $2800 for a slow 040!
Why does the A4000t costs soo much and does less?
GREETINGS..
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|----
| Peter Sinclair-Day POWER MACINTOSH 7100/80 |
| University of Northern Iowa |
| Graduate School of Library Science |
| Rod Library - Systems & Technology |
| |
| Internet-demo...@webcom.com / Type 'subscribe' in body of message |
| Http://www.rockgarden.com/andy/ |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|-
nyle landas
: As we have tried to tell you (and others) over and over again..... The
Don't bother no mater what you say to Peter he won't listen. You could tell
him that initial production costs of a limited production run of A4000Ts are
very high and this is why they cost so much. You could also explain that
AmiT is waiting until they can mass produce something better. Or you could
tell them they go on sale tomorrow for $500 USD it won't matter since he
doesn't really care. He just thrives on conflict - reminds me of that other
guy Mick Barnut or soemthing like that.
-Nyle
--
----
Nyle F. Landas http://www.servtech.com/public/ami4000/
ny...@servtech.com ftp://ftp.servtech.com/pub/users/ami4000/
Amiga Users Page - http://www.servtech.com/public/ami4000/AmiUsers.html
Amiga Dealers Page - http://www.servtech.com/public/ami4000/AmiDlrs.html
Build a better mousetrap and Bill Gates will steal all the Cheese.
Robert J Goos
:>> Why does the A4000t costs soo much and does less?<<
: As we have tried to tell you (and others) over and over again..... The
: Amiga has just been reintroduced to the market after an entire year of no
: sales, and no R&D at all.
This is the point. There was zero R&D to do! The Amiga 1200 and 4000
were finalized and production started in 1992 for Pete's sake. All the
engineering was done, and purchased by Escom for a song. Now, I agree
that AT/Escom had a large task to get the production lines going again
with such a small staff, but REALLY...all they had to do was get
production going again. All of the hard work had been done. There is no
excuse for the high prices of either the 1200 or the 4000.
When the Amiga 4000/1200s were introduced, Gateway 2000 was still selling
386sx and their mainstream sellers were 386s. Now, don't you think it
would be silly to ask almost $3000 for a new 386 today? That is exactly
what AT/Escom is trying to do...sell 1992 technology in 1996 for 1992
prices.
Dave Gentry
>: A little advertising couldn't hurt either. :)
>AT advertise? Do they know how? I think they learned about advertising
>from the people in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy that wanted to knock
>down Arthur Dent's house.
I'm starting to think that if you are a company, and you own the
rights to the Amiga, it must be against the law for you to advertise
for it, because you might actually make money.
D.G.
Ruud Dingemans
MNB> From: bar...@radiks.net (Marc N. Barrett)
>> Peter Sinclair-Day asks of us all:
> PowerWave (etc...)
MNB> Sorry, but IMO that "Tower A1200" is also overpriced. For one
Oh look, it's back. The man who publicly stated the Amiga was to
die completely in 1994.
Quick, take a screen shot: two no-brainers in one go.
Regards, Ruud
-- Via Xenolink 1.985B5, XenolinkUUCP 1.1
Ruud Dingemans
PSD> From: sincl...@cobra.uni.edu (PETER SINCLAIR-DAY)
PSD> According to MacWeek...
PSD> MacWeek states Apple ....
PSD> PM 7200 will use...
PSD> MacWeek also states that the PM 8500...
PSD> PowerComputing will announce...
This is an Amiga newsgroup. You seem quite unable to get it. We
do not appreciate endless Mac propaganda. We KNOW the A4000 is
expensive, and most of us don't buy it, but then we are not the market
for that machine, it's more a low-end video business machine now.
Meanwhile, I've been able to run my Mac programs at full speed on my
030 A2000 for nearly a year now.
Jeroen T. Vermeulen
return to the Amiga scene as soon as AT does something right. And all at the
same time, too. Almost as if you care again.
And it seems only yesterday that you were all posing as die-hard Amiga fans...
So tell me, what's wrong with the air in Iowa? Almost every time I see a post
here that really stinks it turns out it's been posted from Iowa. Maybe some
anti-Amiga religious sect set up its HQ there?
Well you can tell your bosses that you've been exposed by your own stupidity.
PS - The new .sig looks a lot better--that goes for all three of you.
--
============================================================================
# Jeroen T. Vermeulen \"How are we doing kid?"/ Yes, we use Amigas. #
#--- j...@xs4all.nl ---\"Oh, same as always."/-- ... --#
#jver...@wi.leidenuniv.nl \ "That bad, huh?" / Got a problem with that? #
Harold Klink
>Why does the A4000t costs soo much and does less?
For about $0 one can get SHAPESHIFTER! Ever bought a MAC for $0?!
No?! What a pity......And besides, you're talking about future prices (MAC)
and comparing them to todays prices (A4000). A little bit unfair?!
Besides, I prefer Amiga over MAC AND PEECEE together. And buying a MAC and
A PEECEE would cost me more than........An A4000. A *LOT* more!
SO much for your theory, now go and play with your spectrum!
:-)
Harold.
Karl Thomas
>bar...@radiks.net (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>MAc, Mac,. fuck off with your MAC. We don't want MACS and besides, most
>Amiga users can get a MAC for $0! Can you?!
If I stole an Amiga like you would have to steal the Mac roms I could get
an Amiga for free. Last time I checked Apple wasn't giving out the ROM code.
>Expendable to 8 meg?! Is that all?! and 128-bit architecture alone doesn't mean
>it is fast! You seem to be the kind of gouy that thinks "The higher the
Who would need to expand the *VRAM* more than 8 Megs?
>number, the better the results!" Well, in some cases that's true.
>CyberVision 64 is a pretty good GFX card, up to 1600x1280x256colours.
How pathetic. Amiga users use to brag about the best hardware now they
make excuses for mediocrity.
Robert Owen Raine
>How pathetic. Amiga users use to brag about the best hardware now they
>make excuses for mediocrity.
>
company that hasn't even had it a year yet has put out old technology at an
inflated price to get a little more working capital for their R&D. I find this
normal practices by new business. What do you expect a PowerPC chalenger out
of the gate. What is really INSULTING is you dosheads and MACINLOSER's coming
here and telling us what we already know. We are Patient people we will give
AT a chance to come up with something but we won't wait forever. Right now
they haven't had the time to come up with squat. At best they may be in the
design phase nowhere near the first run of silicon. Bitch all you want your
blow'in smoke. If you don't want a machine at that price then don't buy one,
but don't come here crying.
\|/
@ @ @ @
------------------------------------------------------oOO-(_)-OOo--------------
Only Amiga Makes it Happen Bob Raine
The computer for the creative mind Michigan State University
Make Up Your Own Mind Physics Astronomy Dept.
Amiga / The Alternative Ra...@msupa.pa.msu.edu
Escom: "Anything is Possible"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
P A Williamson
Verins) wrote:
> >>030 in 1996!!! AT is smoking something funny...<<
>
> Now, this I can agree with. They should change their brand of smokes. ;-)
Ummm, there are "brands" now? I thought it was all generic. :-)
Karl Thomas
>sincl...@cobra.uni.edu (PETER SINCLAIR-DAY) writes:
>>Why does the A4000t costs soo much and does less?
>For about $0 one can get SHAPESHIFTER! Ever bought a MAC for $0?!
>No?! What a pity......And besides, you're talking about future prices (MAC)
>and comparing them to todays prices (A4000). A little bit unfair?!
>Besides, I prefer Amiga over MAC AND PEECEE together. And buying a MAC and
>A PEECEE would cost me more than........An A4000. A *LOT* more!
Where do you plan to get the Mac roms for free? Pirate them? Today you
can buy a low-end P-Mac 6116 for less than $1000 complete with a CD-ROM
drive, 8 Megs of Ram, a 500 Meg hard drive, 16-bit sound, etc. etc.
Monitor would cost extra.
PETER SINCLAIR-DAY
> sincl...@cobra.uni.edu (PETER SINCLAIR-DAY) writes:
>
>>Why does the A4000t costs soo much and does less?
>
> For about $0 one can get SHAPESHIFTER! Ever bought a MAC for $0?!
> No?! What a pity......And besides, you're talking about future prices (MAC)
> and comparing them to todays prices (A4000). A little bit unfair?!
What future Mac prices? I am talking about today's prices..A poermac Performa
with a gig is priced below $900.. A powermac 7200/90 can be had for about $1200
street. What part do you not understand?
$3000 for a 68k Mac emulated A4000T! Buy 2 Powermacs and have change left over
a A1200 and some..
> Besides, I prefer Amiga over MAC AND PEECEE together. And buying a MAC and
> A PEECEE would cost me more than........An A4000. A *LOT* more!
>
In what way?
> SO much for your theory, now go and play with your spectrum!
> :-)
>
I refuted your denial..
> Harold.
PETER SINCLAIR-DAY
> bar...@radiks.net (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>
>>it has an INCREDIBLY weak 68020; and second, graphics cards for Zorro III
>>are VERY expensive. For the price of a bottom-of-the-line mediocre
>>graphics card for Zorro III that uses slow DRAM, there are graphics cards
>>available for PCI Macs with a true 128-bit graphics architecture (read:
>>VERY fast) and 2M of true VRAM, usually expandable to 8M.
>
> MAc, Mac,. fuck off with your MAC. We don't want MACS and besides, most
> Amiga users can get a MAC for $0! Can you?!
> it is fast! You seem to be the kind of gouy that thinks "The higher the
> CyberVision 64 is a pretty good GFX card, up to 1600x1280x256colours.
> Personally you think an A1200 is overpriced, I think a any MAC costing more
> than $99 is overpriced, simply because it lacks the OS the Amiga has!
> (And more)
Thats how we former Amiga owners feel, that the Amiga is not worth the
silicon.. Simply, put it, the Amiga lacks the apps that the Mac/PC has!!
>
>> BTW, how much is a complete "Tower A1200" system, including a Zorro III
>>graphics card? It's easily possible to put together a complete PCI
>>PowerMac system, including a VERY VERY fast graphics card, 16-bit stereo
>>full-duplex sound, a 75Mhz PowerPC 601 CPU, 8M of RAM, a quad-speed CD-ROM
>>drive, ethernet, and a 500M SCSI hard drive, for well under $2000.
>
> Again, I don't need a MAC. I want an Amiga.
Get one by all means..It's your money and you are in the minority..
Chris Brown
PETER SINCLAIR-DAY <sincl...@cobra.uni.edu> wrote:
[lots of pricing info and stats on Macintosh computers, which I
couldn't care less about, followed by a huge .sig]
Why are you posting this to comp.sys.amiga.misc? It has nothing to do
with this group. If people want to buy a Macintosh, surely they'll go
and look in a Macintosh group. This once is for discussion about the
Amiga computer line. Please try and be a bit more careful in where
your posts go. If your newsreader is broken and doesn't honour
followups, please take note and insert them appropriatley into the
newsgroups line.
--
/* _ */main(int k,char**n){char*i=k&1?"+L*;99,RU[,RUo+BeKAA+BECACJ+CAACA"
/* / ` */"CD+LBCACJ*":1[n],j,l=!k,m;do for(m=*i-48,j=l?m/k:m%k;m>>7?k=1<<m+
/* | */8,!l&&puts(&l)**&l:j--;printf(" \0_/"+l));while((l^=3)||l[++i]);}
/* \_,hris Brown -- All opinions expressed are probably wrong. */
P A Williamson
Thomas) wrote:
> Where do you plan to get the Mac roms for free? Pirate them? Today you
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> can buy a low-end P-Mac 6116 for less than $1000 complete with a CD-ROM
> drive, 8 Megs of Ram, a 500 Meg hard drive, 16-bit sound, etc. etc.
> Monitor would cost extra.
And after spending many hours (years) with the local Mac group, I can
vouch for the fact that Mac users have NEVER pirated anything. :-)
If Apple would just sell the damn ROM, Amiga users wanting Mac emulation
would ,more likely, buy one. Myself....I just "pirated" it from my sisters
Performa that is sitting three feet away. :-)
P A Williamson
Thomas) wrote:
> >MAc, Mac,. fuck off with your MAC. We don't want MACS and besides, most
> >Amiga users can get a MAC for $0! Can you?!
>
> If I stole an Amiga like you would have to steal the Mac roms I could get
> an Amiga for free. Last time I checked Apple wasn't giving out the ROM code.
Reality check...If you want Amiga ROMs, no problem, you CAN buy them (
maybe you didn't know this small "fact"). :-)
Paul Dossett
>B E Verins (beve...@aol.com) wrote:
>: As we have tried to tell you (and others) over and over again..... The
>Don't bother no mater what you say to Peter he won't listen. You could tell
>him that initial production costs of a limited production run of A4000Ts are
>very high and this is why they cost so much. You could also explain that
>AmiT is waiting until they can mass produce something better. Or you could
>tell them they go on sale tomorrow for $500 USD it won't matter since he
>doesn't really care. He just thrives on conflict - reminds me of that other
>guy Mick Barnut or soemthing like that.
Marc Barrett. Being a little quiet now that Apple isn't doing quite so well..
;)
I'd love to know why Mac and PC heads even enter these groups?
I certainly don't have the time to waste reading Mac and PC groups. I tried,
believe me, but the traffic is just too high to read more than one
comp.sys.machine group! While still retaining a life, of course.. :)
--
Paul Dossett | EpiphoneYamahaPearlPaiste | Amiga 2000/040/17/365/3.1 __
-------------| Amiga owner since 1988! | Amiga CD32/020/10/200/3.1__///
Melbourne OZ | astr...@netspace.net.au | 1976 Toyota Corolla 1.2 \XX/
Paul Dossett
> Sorry, but IMO that "Tower A1200" is also overpriced. For one thing,
>it has an INCREDIBLY weak 68020; and second, graphics cards for Zorro III
>are VERY expensive. For the price of a bottom-of-the-line mediocre
>graphics card for Zorro III that uses slow DRAM, there are graphics cards
>available for PCI Macs with a true 128-bit graphics architecture (read:
>VERY fast) and 2M of true VRAM, usually expandable to 8M.
And for half that price, you could buy a PC card.
> BTW, how much is a complete "Tower A1200" system, including a Zorro III
>graphics card? It's easily possible to put together a complete PCI
>PowerMac system, including a VERY VERY fast graphics card, 16-bit stereo
>full-duplex sound, a 75Mhz PowerPC 601 CPU, 8M of RAM, a quad-speed CD-ROM
>drive, ethernet, and a 500M SCSI hard drive, for well under $2000.
Or a full blown Pentium system. Face it Marc, we Mac and Amiga owners should
be sticking together against the Wintel onslaught, not duking it out between
ourselves.
I quite like Macs. I also like Amigas. I don't like Microsoft. However, PCs
are far cheaper than anything else at present and are better marketed, so stop
going on about prices. We *know* how much cheaper everything else is, and we
don't care. The Amiga OS is that good.
Charles E Taylor IV
:I just read a posting that they're doing some advertising deal with
:McDonalds in Germany.
I can see it now. A1200's in Happy Meals. :)
--
__ ___ _ _ _ | >>>>> cha...@hubcap.clemson.edu <<<<<
|_)o _ |/ | |_|\_/| / \|_) |'94 BS ChE, Clemson ; "Will work for food!"
| \||_ |\ | | | | |_\_/| \ |"So this is it, we're going to die!" --A.D.
---> My WWW home is now at http://www.clemson.edu/~charlet/ <---
Patrick Leung
: Janne Siren (si...@dns.mikrobitti.fi) wrote:
: : I just read a posting that they're doing some advertising deal with
: : McDonalds in Germany. I think this is the right direction - and no need to
: : conquer the whole world at once, home market is a good place to start.
: McDonalds??
: "I'll have a Big Mac, an A1200 Surfer Pack, and a large Coke."
I would leave out that Mac.
MacOS is too difficult for me to digest.
Besides, Macs come together with a mice inside.
Do you really want to eat that mice? ;-))
I don't.
: "Would you like fries with that?"
: "No."
: "Your total is $799.94. Drive to the next window please."
I don't think so... $779.94 maybe for the A1200.
Not including the Mac. You'll have to pay a little more than $779.94
to get both.
Patrick Leung | "It's not how little you pay.
ple...@acsu.buffalo.edu | It's how much you get."
http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~pleung | -- Commodore --
Harv R Laser
>When the Amiga 4000/1200s were introduced, Gateway 2000 was still selling
>386sx and their mainstream sellers were 386s. Now, don't you think it
>would be silly to ask almost $3000 for a new 386 today? That is exactly
>what AT/Escom is trying to do...sell 1992 technology in 1996 for 1992
>prices.
Sigh.. it doesn't matter WHEN it was invented. What matters is
what it can do.
How long ago were lightbulbs invented? Why don't they sell for 1 cent
now?
When Amiga Tech has the production capacity that Commodore had and
can produce machines in the volume that Commodore did, then the
prices will come down.
Why is this so damn hard for people to understand?
Harv | "Do you recognize the
ha...@cup.portal.com | Bell of Truth when you
http://www.portal.com/~harv | hear it ring?"
hla...@eworld.com <--- (until 3/31/96) | - Leon Russell
Anders Karlsson
PSD> Thats how we former Amiga owners feel, that the Amiga is not worth the
PSD> silicon.. Simply, put it, the Amiga lacks the apps that the Mac/PC
PSD> has!!
Maybe that is so. But when the PPC-processor is implemented in Amiga,
that argument is no more. Amiga has al of a sudden all applications
that Mac was alone of before. In -97 there will be no reason to buy
a Mac anymore. And therefor we, *true* Amiga-owners, stick with the
Amiga.
PSD> Get one by all means..It's your money and you are in the minority..
And since when is it so that the most sold product is the best?
VHS is also the biggest, but surely not the best..
Amiga has something special, and I and many with me wont trade that
away to anything less good. The Mac has one big disadvantage, its OS.
(Besides, your blurb is way to big.. Shrink it plz..)
Anders Karlsson Dedicated Amiga User.
fl...@kuai.se PGP-key available on request.
Ed Hanway
: I just read a posting that they're doing some advertising deal with
: McDonalds in Germany. I think this is the right direction - and no need to
: conquer the whole world at once, home market is a good place to start.
McDonalds??
"I'll have a Big Mac, an A1200 Surfer Pack, and a large Coke."
"Would you like fries with that?"
"No."
"Your total is $799.94. Drive to the next window please."
--
Ed Hanway <han...@ekfido.kodak.com>
Eastman Kodak - Motion Picture & Television Imaging, Cineon Development
Opinions expressed are my own, except the ones which aren't.
Janne Siren
: I'm starting to think that if you are a company, and you own the
: rights to the Amiga, it must be against the law for you to advertise
: for it, because you might actually make money.
I just read a posting that they're doing some advertising deal with
McDonalds in Germany. I think this is the right direction - and no need to
conquer the whole world at once, home market is a good place to start.
--
Janne Siren
si...@mikrobitti.fi, http://www.mikrobitti.fi/~siren/
Chris Brown
PETER SINCLAIR-DAY <sincl...@cobra.uni.edu> wrote:
>
>Thats how we former Amiga owners feel, that the Amiga is not worth the
Let me ask you a couple of questions. Can you get a single WYSIWYG word
processor for the Macintosh with graphics (including EPS) support?
Remember it has to be WYSIWYG - no stupid box where the EPS graphic
should be, and I want it to be able to print on non-postscript
printers. I'll be buying Wordworth 5 soon. I want to know if the Mac
has anything else that can compare with this.
Can I get GCC 2.7.0 for the Mac, with UNIX emulation (e.g. fork()),
and a set of GNU tools, including SH and GNU make, so I can compile
and run UNIX applications? How about X11R6? I ask because I can do all
of this on the A1200. BTW, none of it costs me anything (and I'm not
interested in pirate software). Can the Mac do this for me?
And whilst this doesn't interest me personally, I'm sure it would
interest a lot of people. Does the Mac run Lightwave?
Peter Elzner
> >: A little advertising couldn't hurt either. :)
>
> >AT advertise? Do they know how? I think they learned about advertising
> >from the people in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy that wanted to knock
> >down Arthur Dent's house.
>
> I'm starting to think that if you are a company, and you own the
> rights to the Amiga, it must be against the law for you to advertise
> for it, because you might actually make money.
As far as I know the situation looks like this:
Amigas are selling good and AT can't produce much more. So advertising is
currently not necessary because AT could not handle the increasing demand.
Peter Elzner [Ha...@blanker.ruhr.de]
---------------------< neXus support center >------------------------------
Diamond Caves - the ultimate Boulder Dash clone
PETER SINCLAIR-DAY
> In article <4i491v$c...@nyx.cs.du.edu>, kath...@nyx.cs.du.edu (Karl
> Thomas) wrote:
>
>> Where do you plan to get the Mac roms for free? Pirate them? Today you
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> can buy a low-end P-Mac 6116 for less than $1000 complete with a CD-ROM
>> drive, 8 Megs of Ram, a 500 Meg hard drive, 16-bit sound, etc. etc.
>> Monitor would cost extra.
>
> And after spending many hours (years) with the local Mac group, I can
> vouch for the fact that Mac users have NEVER pirated anything. :-)
>
> If Apple would just sell the damn ROM, Amiga users wanting Mac emulation
> would ,more likely, buy one. Myself....I just "pirated" it from my sisters
> Performa that is sitting three feet away. :-)
So the Amiga is not good enough for your sister...-(
Ruud Dingemans
RJG> the engineering was done, and purchased by Escom for a song. Now, I
RJG> agree that AT/Escom had a large task to get the production lines going
RJG> again with such a small staff, but REALLY...all they had to do was get
Your "all" is still a heckofalot of work for such a small team. Don't
forget they just had a couple of people in mid-'95...
RJG> production going again. All of the hard work had been done. There is
RJG> no excuse for the high prices of either the 1200 or the 4000.
Not quite true. The 4000 is too expensive for most of us now, but
the A1200 is back to it's old price level here in Holland and
in Germany (before CBM started dumping them to gain cash, that is).
In the UK, things are different. But stating that the price is
too high is only partly true.
RJG> think it would be silly to ask almost $3000 for a new 386 today? That
RJG> is exactly what AT/Escom is trying to do...sell 1992 technology in
RJG> 1996 for 1992 prices.
Guess what, the successful A500 had 1985 technology in 1989/90. And
CBM sold millions of them, albeit in an "easier" market.
Regards, Ruud
rdi...@grafix.xs4all.nl
VASCO ALEXANDRE DA SILVA COSTA
: In a message of 09 Mar 96 Peter Sinclair-Day wrote to All:
: PSD> According to MacWeek...
Did you hear Apple were going to fire 1/4 of their staff, and reported a
100+ million $ loss ?????
I think maybe even Apple won't last long...
Vasco Alexandre da Silva Costa
"PC's are crap, consoles don't count... Mac's are better but worse than
a Freddie haunt..."
HEI! THAT ALMOST "RiMES" :-)
T. Wright
> BTW, how much is a complete "Tower A1200" system, including a Zorro III
> graphics card? It's easily possible to put together a complete PCI
> PowerMac system, including a VERY VERY fast graphics card, 16-bit stereo
> full-duplex sound, a 75Mhz PowerPC 601 CPU, 8M of RAM, a quad-speed CD-ROM
> drive, ethernet, and a 500M SCSI hard drive, for well under $2000.
Of course, you would rather sell the useless CD drive on a Mac to get the
rather necessary extra 8M RAM.
Out of interest, how do you tell if you have a fast/very fast/any graphics
card in a Mac. I usually have to disable Word's Toolbar, even on the
Computer Centre's PowerMacs. Unless, of course, you actually like seeing
the Mac redrawing the icons one by one! Even the ribbon/ruler push my
patience, but I need these so I have to suffer. This might be the fault
of the Mac insisting on redrawing the icons and windows from scratch
every time, rather than remebering the contents - guess I've been spoilt
by my Amiga for too long!
Trevor
Janne Siren
: : conquer the whole world at once, home market is a good place to start.
As I understood it, it had something to do with some McDonalds magazine or
pamphlet or something? This is third hand so...
: "I'll have a Big Mac, an A1200 Surfer Pack, and a large Coke."
: "Would you like fries with that?"
: "No."
: "Your total is $799.94. Drive to the next window please."
Now that sounds like a my kind of a restaurant... ;-)
Bill Near
<> Janne Siren (si...@dns.mikrobitti.fi) wrote:
<> : I just read a posting that they're doing some advertising deal with
<> : McDonalds in Germany. I think this is the right direction - and no need to
<> : conquer the whole world at once, home market is a good place to start.
<>
<> McDonalds??
<>
<>
<> "Would you like fries with that?"
"No, but can I get that SyQuest drive to go?"
"Will that be the "Extra Value Amiga" or the "Regular"?
"Hmmm, Extra Value, please"
<> "Your total is $799.94. Drive to the next window please."
--
---------------------------------------------------
Bill ////\ wn...@epix.net
Near ////\\\ A2000/030@50/Picasso II/Supra V.34
//// \\\\ _____ __ _
\\\\ ////___\\\\ //// |\ /| | / \ / \
\\\\///-----\\\\/// | \/ | | | __ /---\
\\\\/ \\\\/ | | __|__ \__/ / \
Contributing Editor @ Amiga Report Magazine
---------------------------------------------------
Jeroen T. Vermeulen
> McDonalds??
>
> "I'll have a Big Mac, an A1200 Surfer Pack, and a large Coke."
>
> "Would you like fries with that?"
>
> "No."
>
> "Your total is $799.94. Drive to the next window please."
Nice joke. But did you *have* to use the "W word"?
> Ed Hanway <han...@ekfido.kodak.com>
> Eastman Kodak - Motion Picture & Television Imaging, Cineon Development
> Opinions expressed are my own, except the ones which aren't.
--
============================================================================
# Jeroen T. Vermeulen \"How are we doing kid?"/ Yes, we use Amigas. #
#--- j...@xs4all.nl ---\"Oh, same as always."/-- ... --#
#jver...@wi.leidenuniv.nl \ "That bad, huh?" / Got a problem with that? #
"Netscape's millions of browsers won't be a threat to us for very long"--Microsoft, 1995
PETER SINCLAIR-DAY
>>har...@stack.urc.tue.nl (Harold Klink) writes:
>>
>>>sincl...@cobra.uni.edu (PETER SINCLAIR-DAY) writes:
>>
>>>>Why does the A4000t costs soo much and does less?
>>
>>>For about $0 one can get SHAPESHIFTER! Ever bought a MAC for $0?!
>>>No?! What a pity......And besides, you're talking about future prices (MAC)
>>>and comparing them to todays prices (A4000). A little bit unfair?!
>>>A PEECEE would cost me more than........An A4000. A *LOT* more!
>>
>>drive, 8 Megs of Ram, a 500 Meg hard drive, 16-bit sound, etc. etc.
>>Monitor would cost extra.
>
> forget the keyboard. That's extra too. When you're all said and done,
> your PowrMac 6100/66 is pushing $2000.
Not unless you have a monitor already like I did when I upgraded to the 7100/80
for less than $1300. $2000 is far less than the $2800 A4000 plus monitor..
Harv, I see you have a Newton. I am buying a used Newton MP 100 with 1.3 OS
with a meg.. My use is to keep notes, to do and names. How do you like your
Newton?
>
> Harv | "Do you recognize the
> ha...@cup.portal.com | Bell of Truth when you
> http://www.portal.com/~harv | hear it ring?"
> hla...@eworld.com <--- (until 3/31/96) | - Leon Russell
GREETINGS..
Thomas Karlsen
> Dave Gentry (dge...@vlsi4.racal.com) wrote:
> : I'm starting to think that if you are a company, and you own the
> : rights to the Amiga, it must be against the law for you to advertise
> : for it, because you might actually make money.
>
> I just read a posting that they're doing some advertising deal with
> McDonalds in Germany. I think this is the right direction - and no need to
> conquer the whole world at once, home market is a good place to start.
I don't think DAve Gentry understand this at all. AT is a *NEW* company,
they doesn't have THAT much people and money to produce ALOT of Amigas.
What if they went on advertising like hell so that millions of people
would like to buy the e.g Surfer Amiga. They would by no chance in the
world stand up with enough Amigas produce to satisfy the demands. And
THAT would but Amiga Tech into death pretty fast. It's better to build up
something that can handle a bigger production scheme and range palette.
/Thomas
Eddie
: PM 7600 will use 120 mhz 604. Price is around $3000 for a configuration with 16
: megs ram, 1 gig and 4x cdrom.. Currently a A4000t has a price tag of around
: $2800 for a slow 040!
MHz speeds don't make a *WHOLE* computer system.
: PM 7200 will use a 120 mhz 601 and the harddrive will be boosted to 1.2gig.
: Price, $1900...Currently a A4000t has a price tag of around $2800 for a slow
: 040!
I reiterate - MHz speeds don't make a *WHOLE* computer system.
: MacWeek also states that the PM 8500 and 9500 will have higher clock speeds..
Clock speeds - haven't we been here before?
: PowerComputing will announce price drops for their PowerWave line...
: The PowerWave 120(604-120mhz.) has been reduced to $2799 with 16 megs, 1 gig,
: video board, keyboard and software bundle.. Currently a A4000t has a price tag
: of around $2800 for a slow 040!
Do I have to say it again?
: Why does the A4000t costs soo much and does less?
Yes, the A4000T is over-priced. I'd still buy it if I had the money though.
Slow 040!!! For Christ sake- it's what you *DO* with those MHz thats
important. The Mac's wasted them on the LC's/ Performas of the time. The
A4000 usesthem well. Unless you want to do V.Complex maths - MHz & clock
cycles etc. don't mean a great deal - and if I needed to do that sort of work,
I'd by a SPARCstation or something!
Why oh Why must people insist on comparing MHz and Clock speeds. It's
starting to get annoying. It was amusing at first listening to people boast
about their new xxx Mhz machine, whilst we in the know quietly chuckled to
ourselves thinking what ignorant fools they are making of themselves. Now,
it's getting annoying. If you want to argue about chips take it do
alt.tech.geek.bigHertz or something. This is a System group, talking about
the whole picture not one part of it!
I actually gave Mac owners more credit than this Mr Sinclair-Day. You sound
horribly like a PC Clone owner. I'm not for standing in the way of progress,
but please look at all aspects of the point before putting forward your
arguments. The Amiga community is not fooled by any of this non-sense. Any
other computer system that went through what we did when C= bought it would
have collapsed. It is credit to the computer, it's system and its people that
it is still going and *starting* to expand again.
--
***************************************************************************
* Tim Lewis (a.k.a Eddie) * "You think I'm crazy! *
* * You wouldn't know what crazy was *
* T.L...@bton.ac.uk * if Charles Manson was sitting on *
Harv R Laser
>
>>sincl...@cobra.uni.edu (PETER SINCLAIR-DAY) writes:
>
>
>>No?! What a pity......And besides, you're talking about future prices (MAC)
>>and comparing them to todays prices (A4000). A little bit unfair?!
>>Besides, I prefer Amiga over MAC AND PEECEE together. And buying a MAC and
>>A PEECEE would cost me more than........An A4000. A *LOT* more!
>
>Where do you plan to get the Mac roms for free? Pirate them? Today you
>can buy a low-end P-Mac 6116 for less than $1000 complete with a CD-ROM
>drive, 8 Megs of Ram, a 500 Meg hard drive, 16-bit sound, etc. etc.
>Monitor would cost extra.
Monitor would cost extra. Heh.. sure. like $700 extra. And don't
forget the keyboard. That's extra too. When you're all said and done,
your PowrMac 6100/66 is pushing $2000.
Harv | "Do you recognize the
Janne Siren
: Get one by all means..It's your money and you are in the minority..
Well, so are you. And Apple and Macintosh aren't doing that well at the moment.
Much better than Amiga of course, but still the PC has the market...
Perry Mowbray
EH> Janne Siren (si...@dns.mikrobitti.fi) wrote:
>> I just read a posting that they're doing some advertising deal with
>> McDonalds in Germany. I think this is the right direction - and no need
>> to
>> conquer the whole world at once, home market is a good place to start.
EH> McDonalds??
EH> "I'll have a Big Mac, an A1200 Surfer Pack, and a large Coke."
EH> "Would you like fries with that?"
No, but I do have a "Free Modem Voucher" from the cornflakes box!
Regards,
PM
**************************************************************************
Perry Mowbray
Email: per...@amioz.apana.org.au
FIDO: 3:713/817.7
AmigaNet: 41:200/817.7
**************************************************************************
Jack andrews
: The computer for the creative mind Michigan State University
and the fat wallet only.
: Make Up Your Own Mind Physics Astronomy Dept.
Don't buy the overpriced so called "new" Amigas
: Amiga / The Alternative Ra...@msupa.pa.msu.edu
Yes , to common sense purchasing.
: Escom: "Anything is Possible"
Except a real world price.
Jmonson
>: I just read a posting that they're doing some advertising deal with
>: McDonalds in Germany. I think this is the right direction - and no need to
>: conquer the whole world at once, home market is a good place to start.
>McDonalds??
>"I'll have a Big Mac, an A1200 Surfer Pack, and a large Coke."
>"Would you like fries with that?"
>"No."
>"Your total is $799.94. Drive to the next window please."
ROTFL... :) :)
I some how have difficulty with the concept of McD's selling computers.
Perhaps they will be having a compitition with an Amiga as a Prize??
Jason
<tsb>
________________________ _______________________________
/ / Volly \ \
/ /~~~~~~~~ Hooked.on.the.net ~~~~~~~~~~~\ \
/ /~~~~~~ Look for me on IRC undernet #nz #Amigacafe ~~~~~~~~~\ \
/ /~ Real life: Pegasus Toastmasters, Christchurch West Rotoract ~\ \
/ / _______________________Team AMIGA________________________________ \ \
~~ ~~
<sb>
But wait, there is more..... with the sig you also get a tagline:
OS/2 = Half an Operating System
NAME
> In article <4i491v$c...@nyx.cs.du.edu>, kath...@nyx.cs.du.edu (Karl Thomas) writes:
>>har...@stack.urc.tue.nl (Harold Klink) writes:
>>
>>>sincl...@cobra.uni.edu (PETER SINCLAIR-DAY) writes:
>>
>>>>Why does the A4000t costs soo much and does less?
>>
>>>For about $0 one can get SHAPESHIFTER! Ever bought a MAC for $0?!
>>>No?! What a pity......And besides, you're talking about future prices (MAC)
>>>and comparing them to todays prices (A4000). A little bit unfair?!
>>>Besides, I prefer Amiga over MAC AND PEECEE together. And buying a MAC and
>>>A PEECEE would cost me more than........An A4000. A *LOT* more!
>>
>>Where do you plan to get the Mac roms for free? Pirate them? Today you
>>can buy a low-end P-Mac 6116 for less than $1000 complete with a CD-ROM
>>drive, 8 Megs of Ram, a 500 Meg hard drive, 16-bit sound, etc. etc.
>>Monitor would cost extra.
>
> wouldn't have an Amiga anymore.. I would much rather have My Amiga with
> your lame computer's software running in a window. Why do I need to buy
> a mac when I can already run all mac software? wihtout having to put up
> with actaully using a mac alone.
if the Amiga is so great, why doesn't it show up as a blip on the radar? If
you hate the Mac soo much, why are you using and buying Mac software? Sounds
like a secret Mac lover in denial..
>
> Mac's suck.
> Always have and always will..
How mature.. The market does not agree with your asertion..
George Noel
Janne Siren <si...@dns.mikrobitti.fi> wrote:
>Ed Hanway (han...@ekfido.kodak.com) wrote:
>: Janne Siren (si...@dns.mikrobitti.fi) wrote:
>: : I just read a posting that they're doing some advertising deal with
>: : McDonalds in Germany. I think this is the right direction - and no need to
>: : conquer the whole world at once, home market is a good place to start.
>: McDonalds??
>
>As I understood it, it had something to do with some McDonalds magazine or
>pamphlet or something? This is third hand so...
Thats a great idea.. McDonalds is big and has that family name/image
which will go good with the lowend computers from AT. Hopefully if this
works out, they can arrange to make the same deal in North America as
not only do McDonalds have stand alone stores but they also have McDonalds
outlets in Walmart (another family name store with big advertising) and heck
even in Convenience parts of Esso Gas Stations here in Canada! :)
>: "I'll have a Big Mac, an A1200 Surfer Pack, and a large Coke."
>: "Would you like fries with that?"
>: "No."
>: "Your total is $799.94. Drive to the next window please."
HAR!
>Now that sounds like a my kind of a restaurant... ;-)
>
>--
>Janne Siren
>si...@mikrobitti.fi, http://www.mikrobitti.fi/~siren/
-=*George*=-
Ruud Dingemans
> Meanwhile, I've been able to run my Mac programs at full speed on my
> 030 A2000 for nearly a year now.
VAD> Did you hear Apple were going to fire 1/4 of their staff, and
VAD> reported a 100+ million $ loss ?????
VAD> I think maybe even Apple won't last long...
Guess again. Apple, IMHO, ain't goin' bust at the moment. They have
lost earnings indeed - but by putting relatively cheap Macs in the
street, they managed to increase their user base from 10 million to
about 22 million in three years. They could survive on a fifth of
that. In 1993, they lost big too and bounced right back the
year after. A lot of people here act like Wall Street instant-panic
dealers and forget to think about the bigger picture.
Apple users are nearly as loyal as Amiga users. Make no mistake,
Apple is still big and a lot of people WANT them to survive as the
only high-street alternative to Intel and Windows. And a PowerPC Mac
ain't no slouch compared to a Pentium, either.
Paul Morabito
>Siren) writes:
>:I just read a posting that they're doing some advertising deal with
>:McDonalds in Germany.
>I can see it now. A1200's in Happy Meals. :)
yeah $3.95 for chips,coke and an A1200!
====================================================================
| // Amiga 1200 * Paul Morabito |
| // * EMail: paul...@world.net |
| \\ // 68030MMU 28mhz * IRC Nik : MAVERICK |
| \X/ * "You may say I'm a dreamer, |
| * but I'm not the only one.." |
| 120MB HD 6MB RAM * MEMBER OF Team AMIGA and IAS |
| "AMIGA, the future is here!" Amiga since '90 |
====================================================================
tem...@netins.net
>har...@stack.urc.tue.nl (Harold Klink) writes:
>
>>sincl...@cobra.uni.edu (PETER SINCLAIR-DAY) writes:
>
>>>Why does the A4000t costs soo much and does less?
>
>>For about $0 one can get SHAPESHIFTER! Ever bought a MAC for $0?!
>>No?! What a pity......And besides, you're talking about future prices (MAC)
>>and comparing them to todays prices (A4000). A little bit unfair?!
>>Besides, I prefer Amiga over MAC AND PEECEE together. And buying a MAC and
>>A PEECEE would cost me more than........An A4000. A *LOT* more!
>
>Where do you plan to get the Mac roms for free? Pirate them? Today you
>can buy a low-end P-Mac 6116 for less than $1000 complete with a CD-ROM
>drive, 8 Megs of Ram, a 500 Meg hard drive, 16-bit sound, etc. etc.
>Monitor would cost extra.
But then we would have to put up with a CRAP OS like Mac's have and we
wouldn't have an Amiga anymore.. I would much rather have My Amiga with
your lame computer's software running in a window. Why do I need to buy
a mac when I can already run all mac software? wihtout having to put up
with actaully using a mac alone.
David Corn
wrote:
>bar...@radiks.net (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>
>MAc, Mac,. fuck off with your MAC. We don't want MACS and besides, most
>Amiga users can get a MAC for $0! Can you?!
An old, slow Mac that's dependant on having a very fast Amiga? Do
most Amiga owners have a fast enough Amiga to run Mac apps even HALF
as quickly as Mac owners can?
>Personally you think an A1200 is overpriced, I think a any MAC costing more
>than $99 is overpriced, simply because it lacks the OS the Amiga has!
>(And more)
Why run an OS that can't run any modern apps? That can't do most of
the things a modern PC can?
David Corn
wrote:
>For about $0 one can get SHAPESHIFTER! Ever bought a MAC for $0?!
>No?! What a pity......And besides, you're talking about future prices (MAC)
>and comparing them to todays prices (A4000). A little bit unfair?!
Posted Mac prices are current-going-rate prices. There's nothing
unfair about it. The Amiga is horribly overpriced for horribly
antiquated hardware and software.
>Besides, I prefer Amiga over MAC AND PEECEE together. And buying a MAC and
>A PEECEE would cost me more than........An A4000. A *LOT* more!
Actually, that's not true.
>SO much for your theory, now go and play with your spectrum!
Do you always dismiss other persons' (correct) arguments so
flippantly? He's right. You're wrong. WRT pricing, there can really
be no disagreement - the Amiga is more expensive.
Eric Lanier
: On 15 Mar 1996 10:00:13 -0800, Ha...@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
: wrote:
:
: >Monitor would cost extra. Heh.. sure. like $700 extra. And don't
:
: $700 extra? For an NEC XV17 17" monitor, sure. Most people,
: especially Amiga owners, don't use that type of monitor. You're
: using "creative" pricing, I think.
"Most people... blah, blah, blah" And why should I not use that monitor?
Don't I deserve one, troll of trolls? A decent 17" monitor is going to cost.
The Sony 17se1(not much different from the current 17se2) on my Amiga I have
is still going for $900+, no, make that $1000+.
: >forget the keyboard. That's extra too. When you're all said and done,
: >your PowrMac 6100/66 is pushing $2000.
:
: 7200/75 - $1000
: 7200/75 keyboard - $100
: 7200/75 Apple 15" Monitor - $400
: 8M DIMM - $150
: $1650 for a 75 mhz Mac, complete and well-equipped. Figure $1800 for
: a 16M 90 mhz version. Note that's with high-quality, Apple brand
: components. If I wanted a cheap 17" monitor, they're $299 at Computer
: City for the next few days...
And total piece of junk too! Screen and convergence aritifacts galore.
Anyone who tries to be cheap purchasing a good 17" monitor, should deserve
what they payed for.
EL
--
|"I've heard that some people complain about the large|Still looking for...|
|eyes and small noses and mouths in Japanese manga.But|BGC B-Club Special |
|I don't see a whole lot of difference when I look at |BGC #3~4,6 CDs,8 LD |
|Disney characters." -- SHIROW Masamune |BGC resin/vinyl kits|
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| http://www.art.net/Studios/Visual/Bianchi/gallery.html |
| http://www.voicenet.com/~serpent/ Eric Lanier(ser...@voicenet.com) |
|http://www.art.net/Studios/Visual/Bianchi/bgc.html Bubblegum Crisis fanart|
Harold Klink
>On 11 Mar 1996 13:14:12 +0100, har...@stack.urc.tue.nl (Harold Klink)
>wrote:
>Why run an OS that can't run any modern apps? That can't do most of
>the things a modern PC can?
Why run a stupid peecee OS, David?! Why buy a Peecee at all?!
Just because you believe the hype?! The next sheep?! Look David, once again
and hopefully the last time (otherwise I hope you get a big piano on your
head so you might wakeup!) The Amiga's OS is -IMHO- better than the MAC OS,
and Win95/3.11. period. Read: IMHO!!! Okay, no matter what you do or say, it
will stay that way unless me, myself and I discovered the opposite. Since
it seems more and more going the other way, I won't give you any hope.
Some people make me really angry here. Some people just don't seem to
understand that an Amiga does the things they want better than other
systems. Is that so hard to understand David?! Maybe you have experienced
it the other way. Nice for you. I've experienced it my way/ Now, I suggest
that you go away from the Amiga newsgroups, because the only thing you
are doing here is shouting how bad an Amiga is. Why David (And Mr. Sinclair
and all the others?!) I am not showing up in MAC or Peecee groups to shout
at your machines am I?! Give me one good vallid reason why you are posting
here?! These groups are for the Amiga comunity to talk about *AMIGA*
I don't say you are not allowed to talk negative about the Amiga, but what
has Mr.Corn given us so far (in 1537374 postings)
* Amigas are overpriced
* Amiga Tech. is outdated
* Amigas can't connect to Win/NT network
(What David probably doesn't know is, that this is in fact an error of
NT, because the left they TCP/IP standards)
* He hates Amigas
* He prefers peecee and mac over Amiga.
And that is repeated at least 1537373 times. The same goes for some other
guys (like Mr. Sinclair-day).
One posting would have done the trick. But no, you seem to want to spoil
the newsgroups here. What's the big deal?! Problems at home?! Problems with
the wife?! Having to little fucks lately?! ;-)
Harold
(Amiga lover, peecee hater)
Harold Klink
>if the Amiga is so great, why doesn't it show up as a blip on the radar? If
>you hate the Mac soo much, why are you using and buying Mac software? Sounds
>like a secret Mac lover in denial..
That's a big thinking mistake, mr. ZX Spectrum :-)
He said he doesn't like the Mac (=the computer), but that doesn't mean that
there ain't no good software for the Mac?!
How about that for a dollar, huh?!
Harold.
Mr John Swire
: GREETINGS..
: |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|----
: | Peter Sinclair-Day POWER MACINTOSH 7100/80 |
: | University of Northern Iowa |
: | Graduate School of Library Science |
: | Rod Library - Systems & Technology |
: | |
: | Internet-demo...@webcom.com / Type 'subscribe' in body of message |
: | Http://www.rockgarden.com/andy/ |
: |-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|-
This is a really annoying sig.
--
John Swire-----------------...@tower.york.ac.uk
74, Park Grove, The Groves, York. (01904) 620 186 //
http://www.york.ac.uk/~jws101 * Keep on Dodgin' \X/
-We got a tank full of gas, it's dark, & we're wearing sunglasses-
Marc N. Barrett
>On Sun, 17 Mar 1996 01:27:49 GMT, David Corn (dc...@paradise.pplnet.com) wrote:
>> An old, slow Mac that's dependant on having a very fast Amiga? Do
>> most Amiga owners have a fast enough Amiga to run Mac apps even HALF
>> as quickly as Mac owners can?
>
> Actually, yes, considering the major slowdown in the shapeshifter
>emulation comes from 1) Video updating and 2) Disk access (when using
>hardfiles). Since I happen to be the lucky owner of a CV64, the first
>is not a problem, and the second is only a problem for unregistered
>users. Aside from those two points, I can run Mac software as fast
>(and sometimes faster) than a "real" 030 Mac. Which isn't bad
>considering I am using an 030 Amiga.
The problem is, 030 Macs are slow. Much as I like Macs, I wouldn't
want to use one that slow. Besides, PowerMacs are getting pretty cheap,
so I don't have to. PowerMac 6100s are readily available for less than
$1000.
--
Marc Barrett
bar...@radiks.net
Karl Thomas
>PETER SINCLAIR-DAY (sincl...@cobra.uni.edu) wrote:
>: PM 7600 will use 120 mhz 604. Price is around $3000 for a configuration with 16
>: megs ram, 1 gig and 4x cdrom.. Currently a A4000t has a price tag of around
>: $2800 for a slow 040!
> MHz speeds don't make a *WHOLE* computer system.
You're right. But the PowerMac is faster, cheaper, has better sound, better
graphics, better applications, more storage, a CD-Rom drive, etc.
>Slow 040!!! For Christ sake- it's what you *DO* with those MHz thats
>important.
I can do a lot more with a 601 than I could with an '040. But if you like
wasting your time waiting for calculations to finish that's your business.
>The Mac's wasted them on the LC's/ Performas of the time. The
>A4000 usesthem well.
Right. THe memory bus on the 4000 is pathetic and so are the graphics. Sure
seems like a waste to me. Care to actually post benchmarks comparing similar
apps on similarly equipped Macs and Amigas. Do you want to put that
Amiga in a non-interlaced, non-flickering graphics mode and watch it crawl?
>Unless you want to do V.Complex maths - MHz & clock
>cycles etc. don't mean a great deal - and if I needed to do that sort of work,
>I'd by a SPARCstation or something!
Typical Amiga user..."We don't need fast processors".
>Why oh Why must people insist on comparing MHz and Clock speeds. It's
>starting to get annoying. It was amusing at first listening to people boast
>about their new xxx Mhz machine, whilst we in the know quietly chuckled to
>ourselves thinking what ignorant fools they are making of themselves.
Right Amiga users are the only ones who are delusional enough to think
that people don't want faster computers. It's really kind of pathetic.
Amiga use use to brag about having faster hardware at an affordable price.
Now they make excuses for overpriced mediocrity.
> Now,
>it's getting annoying. If you want to argue about chips take it do
>alt.tech.geek.bigHertz or something. This is a System group, talking about
>the whole picture not one part of it!
Okay let's compare the whole system. Where do you want to start price, sound
quality, application quality, graphics, storage, or processor speed?
UNREGISTERED VERSION
>Clock speeds - haven't we been here before?
architecture starting with the PPC "Amigas". The Amiga is now dead. A port of
PPC AmigaDOS running on clones is all there is.
Harv R Laser
>with a meg.. My use is to keep notes, to do and names. How do you like your
>Newton?
>| Peter Sinclair-DayPOWER MACINTOSH 7100/80 |
I love the Newton. You won't like the MP100 much unless y ou also
get a 2 meg PCMCIA RAM card for it (another $100 or so).
I use the little thing daily and carry it with me everywhere.
Since I don't own a Mac, the Newton was the #1 rreason I got
Shapeshifter going on my 1200.. with it, I can download and
install software onto the Newton and there is a ton of it out
there of all description. (I use the Lunatech PDA pkg downloader).
You might also want to buy Graffiti, the 3rd party handwriting
recognition package from Palm Computing (now owned by USRobotics).
The 1.3 OS HWR is not the best (much improved in the new 2.0 OS)
and can be frustrating to use. Graffiti is the best. You can
write as fast as you can and if you learn Graffiti's penstrokes
(might take an hour at most) you'll get nearly error-free
text entry.
I wouldn't use a 1.3 Newton without it.
The Mp100 is also a bit battery hungry - it uses four AAAs which
pack a lot less juice than the AAs which the newer models use.
So don't go anywhere without spare batteries, or pick up the
Newton AC adaptor (it's tiny) too for about $30.
Harv | "Do you recognize the
ha...@cup.portal.com | Bell of Truth when you
http://www.portal.com/~harv | hear it ring?"
hla...@eworld.com <--- (until 3/31/96) | - Leon Russell
ps to the Amiga faithful.. yes I know, Mr. Sinclair-Day is
an Amiga-hater, so please don't hate me too much for replying
to him :) but since he wants to get a Newton, he can't be
all bad. I've owned a Newton since last Summer and the Newton
community reminds me a LOT of the earlier Amiga community in
many ways.
Marc N. Barrett
>Yes Amiga can run mac applications at the same speed or faster than most macs
>can run it. On this subject, you don't have a clue in hell about it.
Sounds like you are the one lacking a clue.
The average processing power of an Amiga is a 68020 at 14Mhz. There
are some Amigas that are faster, but they are offset by the huge numbers
of 68000 Amigas.
The average processing power of a Mac is a 60Mhz PowerPC 601; sure, there
are lots of 68030 and 68040 Macs, but there are also lots of 120Mhz
PowerPC604-based Macs.
Thus, to say that an Amiga (or a typical Amiga) can run Mac software as
fast or faster than a typical Mac is nuts.
--
Marc Barrett
bar...@radiks.net
Tor Rune Skoglund
WOW! HE IS BACK AFTER ALL THESE YEARS(?)!
Finally, we can have some intelligent flame wars again! ;-)
- Best Regards,
Tor Rune Skoglund DataKompaniet as
Tech. Manager/Partner Trondheim Innovation Centre
Tel: +47 7354 0375 N-7030 Trondheim
Fax: +47 7394 3861 Norway
E-mail: datako...@interlink.no
WWW: http://www.interlink.no/datakompaniet
Ruud Dingemans
>> Aside from those two points, I can run Mac software as fast (and
sometimes
>> faster) than a "real" 030 Mac. Which isn't bad considering I am using
an
>> 030 Amiga.
MNB> The problem is, 030 Macs are slow. Much as I like Macs, I wouldn't
MNB> want to use one that slow.
...Which just goes to show that mr B. is suffering from the
dreaded MegaHertz Syndrome.
(Then again, we all knew that, while he, being deluded by flashy
adverts, failed to see it all along.)
A few years ago, he was uttering something about 030 Macs
being soooo fast and, of course, oh so much better than an Amiga.
MNB> PowerMac 6100s are readily available for less than
MNB> $1000.
Oh yes, right. Double that price for "somewhere in Europe" if
you want keyboard & monitor.
No regards, RD
Dennis Grant
> >
> >When the Amiga 4000/1200s were introduced, Gateway 2000 was still selling
> >386sx and their mainstream sellers were 386s. Now, don't you think it
> >would be silly to ask almost $3000 for a new 386 today? That is exactly
> >what AT/Escom is trying to do...sell 1992 technology in 1996 for 1992
> >prices.
>
> Sigh.. it doesn't matter WHEN it was invented. What matters is
> what it can do.
>
> How long ago were lightbulbs invented? Why don't they sell for 1 cent
> now?
Because of the massive secret conspiracy against General Electric fostered by
people who want to keep poor folks in the dark, of course. ;)
>
> When Amiga Tech has the production capacity that Commodore had and
> can produce machines in the volume that Commodore did, then the
> prices will come down.
>
> Why is this so damn hard for people to understand?
Harv old man, the incredible pace of computer development these days has
people spoiled absolutely rotten.
When I entered university, I had a C=64 with the full suite of GEOS tools as
my daily workstation. (Ever do linear algebra on a C=64 kiddies?) When I left
4 years later, I had an A2000, with a 2088 Bridgeboard and (ohmygod!) a hard
drive, and I was in hog heaven.
These days, I'm up to a 4000/040, and it does everything I ask it to. My only
complaints about the machine are 1) the shitty case design 2) I wish AGA ran
a little faster, and 3) I do 3D animation, so (for that, and that only) I
wish more horsepower was a little cheaper.
People, it's not who has the bigger processor, it's who gets more done.
Think of it this way: Ol' J. Villeneuve has a motor in his F1 car that's a
third of the size of the one in my T/A, but I ain't racing him for pinks...
--
--------------------------
Dennis Grant
dgr...@cycor.ca
http://www.cycor.ca/TCave/
tem...@netins.net
>On 11 Mar 1996 13:14:12 +0100, har...@stack.urc.tue.nl (Harold Klink)
>wrote:
>
>>Amiga users can get a MAC for $0! Can you?!
>
>most Amiga owners have a fast enough Amiga to run Mac apps even HALF
>as quickly as Mac owners can?
>
You have always been an idiot, I suppose we shouldn't expect anything else from
you.
Yes Amiga can run mac applications at the same speed or faster than most macs
can run it. On this subject, you don't have a clue in hell about it.
>>Personally you think an A1200 is overpriced, I think a any MAC costing more
>>than $99 is overpriced, simply because it lacks the OS the Amiga has!
>>(And more)
>
>Why run an OS that can't run any modern apps? That can't do most of
>the things a modern PC can?
>
My Amiga OS runs modern Apps.. It can also do most things a 'modern'? pc can,
gee I hate to use that word when describing an ibm computer. After all they
are getting some shit like windows 95 and plug n play that everyone thinks is
new on ibm and it doesn't even work. Not to mention Amiga had it 10 years ago.
I really don't consider an ibm modern at all. Would you? I suppose so.
Ruud Dingemans
>> MAc, Mac,. fuck off with your MAC. We don't want MACS and besides, most
>> Amiga users can get a MAC for $0! Can you?!
DC> An old, slow Mac that's dependant on having a very fast Amiga?
Wrong. Shapeshifter runs Mac programs at virtually full speed -
I tested this with several benchmarks. And this is without
any extra hardware at all. Looks like you forgot to get
your facts straight again, mr. Corn.
DC> Do most
DC> Amiga owners have a fast enough Amiga to run Mac apps even HALF as
DC> quickly as Mac owners can?
When I look at the average Powermac running the average Mac program,
I'm not surprised it doesn't seem all that fast, considering how
little Mac system software used native ppc code until 7.5.3. The
Powermac 5300 desktop isn't much faster than that of my
old and oh-so-crummy 030 A2000. If at all.
DC> Why run an OS that can't run any modern apps? That can't do most of
DC> the things a modern PC can?
Because it's better in a lot of ways. Simple as that.
Oh, and we can run Linux or NetBSD Unix on our Amigas, beside just
about every other OS on the planet. What's that you said about OS's?
Regards, Ruud
rdi...@grafix.xs4all.nl
Anthony R Pierre
writes:
>Amiga in a non-interlaced, non-flickering graphics mode and watch it
>crawl?
Err.... not for nothing, but I am looking at my nonflickering 1950
monitor plugged into my Amiga 3000 (or, if I wish, plug in my 17" PC
monitor for a 'bigger' picture) and it isnt crawling. As a matter of
fact, it is the same speed that my flickering 2000 is.
Simon Dainty
> How mature.. The market does not agree with your asertion..
Ah, the 'market'. Isn't that the self-same market that adopted VHS
over Beta? The same apathetic market that Bill Gates and Intel lead
around by their genitals? That nomadic bunch of mindless zombies who
stagger from commercial to commercial, still believing that the world
is flat whilst fanatically taking every word in the Bible literally?
The 'market' will believe anything you tell them, but that doesn't
mean there is only one solution. We're given all the answers before
we even bother to ask the questions, so we just ride the line like
lambs to the slaughter...
SYL,
Iz. (IMHO)
--
"You'll never work in this industry again!"
Realising that he had directed this latest threat at a framed pencil
sketch of the great Cthulhu, which hung from the wall above a bubbling
water cooler, Bill Gates turned swiftly on his heels and stared deeply
into the terrified soul of the Microsoft programmer [who dared optimize
his code], "that means YOU mister!"
--
David Corn
>David Corn (dc...@paradise.pplnet.com) wrote:
>: On 15 Mar 1996 10:00:13 -0800, Ha...@cup.portal.com (Harv R Laser)
>: wrote:
>:
>: >Monitor would cost extra. Heh.. sure. like $700 extra. And don't
>:
>: $700 extra? For an NEC XV17 17" monitor, sure. Most people,
>: especially Amiga owners, don't use that type of monitor. You're
>: using "creative" pricing, I think.
>
>"Most people... blah, blah, blah" And why should I not use that monitor?
>Don't I deserve one, troll of trolls? A decent 17" monitor is going to cost.
>The Sony 17se1(not much different from the current 17se2) on my Amiga I have
>is still going for $900+, no, make that $1000+.
I see. I'd thought that since the Amiga does NTSC output so well,
most Amiga owners had TVs hooked up to their computer? :)
Seriously, sure, you're right, of course. But most Amiga owners don't
have graphics cards, and without that, that's one heck of a waste of a
good monitor.
>And total piece of junk too! Screen and convergence aritifacts galore.
>Anyone who tries to be cheap purchasing a good 17" monitor, should deserve
>what they payed for.
Well, not nearly to the extent that NEC and Sony would have you
believe, but yes, you generally get what you pay for.
Cmarschn
Kuntz) schreibt:
>One other thing that I have wondered about. Why is AT a seperate entity
> from Escom?
Uh, it would hurt if AT were a subdivision of Escom... Escom is in the
reds, AT not ;))
///
---
///-----------------------------------------------------------------------
\\\/// Clemens Marschner
CMar...@aol.com
-\///------------------------------"Uh, I shot Marvin in the face!"
(Travolta)
Cmarschn
Hall) schreibt:
>: A little advertising couldn't hurt either. :)
>
>AT advertise? Do they know how? I think they learned about advertising
>from the people in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy that wanted to knock
>down Arthur Dent's house.
The marketing in Germany is running up now. They take back your old A500 +
Monitor for DM300 ($200) (what a generous amount!), they're planning PR
actions with McDonald's (sic!) and finally advertise in Amiga and
non-Amiga magazines. I hope these attempts do not restrict to Germany.....
In the 670 McDonald's restaurants in Germany, posters will be fixed, games
will be offered and they'll advertise in "Kino News" (cinema news), a
monthly magazine that covers cinema, music and "fun". It has the 15-30s as
its target group. (source: the German "Amiga Magazin".
Cheers,
Clemens Marschner
Ruud Dingemans
MNB> The average processing power of a Mac is a 60Mhz PowerPC 601; sure,
MNB> there are lots of 68030 and 68040 Macs, but there are also lots of
MNB> 120Mhz PowerPC604-based Macs.
'Lots' - 604 Macs bought by the average Joe, yeah right... Not
in Europe, they ain't.
MNB> Thus, to say that an Amiga (or a typical Amiga) can run Mac
MNB> software as fast or faster than a typical Mac is nuts.
Of course we did mean 'an Amiga' can run 'a Mac app'
as fast as the real thing. Of course we'll start comparing non-680x0
versions when the first PPC cards appear. That's a fair comparison.
Yours is not.
Apart from that, you are forgetting there are 68060 Amigas out there -
and a 68060 ain't exactly much slower than a PPC 603. In fact, on a
'060 Amiga in black and white mode, things may run even faster than on
such a Mac (Powermacs can't do black and white mode - at least not the
ones I have listed here).
Karl Thomas
>In article <4i491v$c...@nyx.cs.du.edu>, kath...@nyx.cs.du.edu (Karl Thomas) writes:
>>har...@stack.urc.tue.nl (Harold Klink) writes:
6>>
>>>sincl...@cobra.uni.edu (PETER SINCLAIR-DAY) writes:
>>
>>Where do you plan to get the Mac roms for free? Pirate them? Today you
>>can buy a low-end P-Mac 6116 for less than $1000 complete with a CD-ROM
>>drive, 8 Megs of Ram, a 500 Meg hard drive, 16-bit sound, etc. etc.
>>Monitor would cost extra.
>But then we would have to put up with a CRAP OS like Mac's have and we
>wouldn't have an Amiga anymore.. I would much rather have My Amiga with
>your lame computer's software running in a window. Why do I need to buy
>a mac when I can already run all mac software? wihtout having to put up
>with actaully using a mac alone.
If Macs such so much then why do you want to run the software so badly?
And I do mean run the software badly in both senses of the phrase. I
think an OS would suck if I couldn't run any useful software on it.
Manfred Wojciechowski
>Uh, it would hurt if AT were a subdivision of Escom... Escom is in the
>reds, AT not ;))
David Corn
wrote:
>How about that for a dollar, huh?!
So you pirated the ROMs AND the Operating System (if 7.5+) AND
Shapeshifter?
Janne Siren
: market - they already are known to the only people that are buying
: their machines - past Amiga owners and video shop owners. So why
: advertise?
They've just made a deal with McDonalds in Germany to advertise in their
restaurants and leaflets. I think this is advertising as it should be. Now,
they can't conquer the whole world at once - home market is a good
place to start.
--
Janne Siren
si...@mikrobitti.fi, http://www.mikrobitti.fi/~siren/
Janne Siren
: I some how have difficulty with the concept of McD's selling computers.
: Perhaps they will be having a compitition with an Amiga as a Prize??
It's an advertising deal, not a dealership thing...
Harold Klink
>Not in the Amiga's case.. What does make a whole system? Having PCI, VRAM and
>PPC? That makes the whole system..
Yo, Sinclair. What about a decent OS, with features like Commodities,
Datatypes, real multitasking, Arexx, Non-isometric Icons (Yes I WANT that),
Run-time patching of the OS, REAL drive names, assigns, unlimted tasks and
windows running/opened (only limited by MEMORY), Draggable screens, Locking
FileSystem, Filesystem Notification, a standard install program, Changable
Media (VOLUME NAMES!).....
Not that important huh?! Though so.......
Greetings,
Harold.
Anders Karlsson
UV> Except that AT just announced that they have cancelled all custom
UV> hardware architecture starting with the PPC "Amigas". The Amiga is now
UV> dead. A port of PPC AmigaDOS running on clones is all there is.
Where did you hear this? Who said this? Because this is something
that I belive you misunderstod. Amiga Tech. will NOT reinvent the
weel by trying to build own custom chips. There already are chips
that do all that stuff and is better at it.
The Amiga will still be Amiga, because the thinking in the design
of the hardware. Custom chips helping the processor.
Your BS about Amiga becoming a clone (*bad* *word*) is just not
true. If AT ports AmigaOS to other processors, great! Maybe that
is something that will show PC-owners that M$ stinks..
Anders Karlsson Dedicated Amiga User.
fl...@kuai.se PGP-key available on request.
Thomas Karlsen
> > MHz speeds don't make a *WHOLE* computer system.
>
> You're right. But the PowerMac is faster, cheaper, has better sound, better
> graphics, better applications, more storage, a CD-Rom drive, etc.
The PowerMac is nothing but a big failure, Apple haven't manage to do one
of those PowerMacs faster then the Quadra's with 040 yet! In the whole,
my Powerbook 5300/100Mhz is even slower in "system stuff" than my
Macintosh IIfx with an 40Mhz 030 in it. So when you say PowerMacs are
faster, yes the CPU is fast, but what does it matter when the OS sucks so
bad and Apple screw things up all the time. Just take Open Transport,
this shit sucks and doesn't work good at all.
Better applications you say, bah!
Try running Oracle on it, the Windows version does very well on
16Mb (min 12Mb) and even that is much. On the PowerMacs it takes min
24Mb, and you should have 32Mb to work painless. So what programs are you
really talking about? Photoshop? Yeah, atleast 16-24Mb is you wanna do
something useful. QuarkXpress??? Hmm... Man, the Macintosh was good in
the old days when Macwrite only took 512k of the RAM... Now you will be
lucky to fit the bootpicture in 512k...
Cheaper? Yes, they are that expansive when you look on the prices in the
catalouges, but that is with 8Mb of RAM, and PowerMacs want about 5-6Mb
for the System, and 2 Mb over for applications is pathetic on the PMacs
nowdays, even PC's start looking like low RAM consuming machines.
More storage, well you sure need it now when MS Office takes 33 1.44Mb
disks and Oracle takes 35Mb HD space, the System is on 13 1.44Mb disks. I
would need VERY much storage on those computers.
Better graphics? You can't really mean the standard gfx cards Apple puts
into the machines, the gfx card on the Powerbook 5300 is not fast by no
means. But if you buy one of those ATI Mach 64 or S3 64 cards, then you
get fast gfx, just like you will get on any other machine with those chips.
CD-ROM, O.K, I agree with you on that one, Macintosh in general have a
killing concept by supporting SCSI as standard (IDE on the new models for
the internal HD) so that you can easily move your SCSI peripherals
where ever you go.
And to the quote the first row "MHz speeds don't make a *WHOLE* computer
system". The PowerMac is a living proof on that, but in a negative way,
the 132Mhz you have in the PowerMac 9500 doesn't really feels like
132Mhz... But my 50Mhz 68030 Amiga does certainly feels like 50Mhz and
faster compared to the MacOS with PowerPC in them...
The Mhz is not the answer on everything, atleast not if you can't design
the rest of the computer to work with them in a good way.
/Thomas Karlsen
(To be mentioned is that I run the latest MacOS v7.5.3 on my 5300, and
according to Apple it should be twice as fast on PowerMacs compared to
older 7.5 versions. But even now it doesn't feel like having a 100Mhz heart
in it).
Thomas Karlsen
> David Corn (dc...@paradise.pplnet.com) wrote:
> : market - they already are known to the only people that are buying
> : their machines - past Amiga owners and video shop owners. So why
> : advertise?
>
> They've just made a deal with McDonalds in Germany to advertise in their
> restaurants and leaflets. I think this is advertising as it should be. Now,
> they can't conquer the whole world at once - home market is a good
> place to start.
And you guys do know how many people who passes McDonald in one day, and
Germany is a *BIG* country. So I think they have made a good move doing
the adds there, where alot of different people goes. The cinemas is also
a good place to add on, also MTV!
Joern Plewka
(16.03.1996)
> > MHz speeds don't make a *WHOLE* computer system.
> >
> > : PM 7200 will use a 120 mhz 601 and the harddrive will be boosted to 1.2gig.
> > : Price, $1900...Currently a A4000t has a price tag of around $2800 for a slow
> > : 040!
> >
> > I reiterate - MHz speeds don't make a *WHOLE* computer system.
>
> Not in the Amiga's case.. What does make a whole system? Having PCI, VRAM and
> PPC? That makes the whole system..
A good OS is needed, that`s not what MAC has got this time. Even AmigaOS is far
away from Solaris or so...but it`s fast and doesn`t result in a big
overhead WITHOUT features. Hardware isn`t the whole deal.
> Say it over and over..The Amiga is way behind considering that the price tag of
> 3 grand..
Sure it is in standart hardware...
/ no / / AMIGA /
/ MS+ / J_Pl...@Amtrash.comlink.de / is /
/ gAIDS / Plew...@Informatik.FH-Hamburg.de / back /
/ +-----------------------------------+ /
/ http://users.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~plewka_j /
F. Cowart
: dc...@paradise.pplnet.com (David Corn) writes:
: >On 11 Mar 1996 13:14:12 +0100, har...@stack.urc.tue.nl (Harold Klink)
: >wrote:
: >Why run an OS that can't run any modern apps? That can't do most of
: >the things a modern PC can?
: Why run a stupid peecee OS, David?! Why buy a Peecee at all?!
: Just because you believe the hype?! The next sheep?! Look David, once again
: and hopefully the last time (otherwise I hope you get a big piano on your
: head so you might wakeup!) The Amiga's OS is -IMHO- better than the MAC OS,
Children, Children, if you don't play nice together I'll have to seperate
you. No computer is ever bad or obsolite. It is good as long as it does
what you want it to. I have a friend who got a VIC-20 from me with a tape
drive and She STILL loves it. why? because shes half blind and thouse
giant letters let her see the screen. She just uses it as a simple word
proccesser and tty michine.
: and Win95/3.11. period. Read: IMHO!!! Okay, no matter what you do or say, it
: will stay that way unless me, myself and I discovered the opposite. Since
: it seems more and more going the other way, I won't give you any hope.
: Some people make me really angry here. Some people just don't seem to
: understand that an Amiga does the things they want better than other
: systems. Is that so hard to understand David?! Maybe you have experienced
: it the other way. Nice for you. I've experienced it my way/ Now, I suggest
: that you go away from the Amiga newsgroups, because the only thing you
: are doing here is shouting how bad an Amiga is. Why David (And Mr. Sinclair
: and all the others?!) I am not showing up in MAC or Peecee groups to shout
: at your machines am I?! Give me one good vallid reason why you are posting
: here?! These groups are for the Amiga comunity to talk about *AMIGA*
: I don't say you are not allowed to talk negative about the Amiga, but what
: has Mr.Corn given us so far (in 1537374 postings)
: * Amigas are overpriced
: * Amiga Tech. is outdated
: * Amigas can't connect to Win/NT network
: (What David probably doesn't know is, that this is in fact an error of
: NT, because the left they TCP/IP standards)
: * He hates Amigas
: * He prefers peecee and mac over Amiga.
: And that is repeated at least 1537373 times. The same goes for some other
: guys (like Mr. Sinclair-day).
: One posting would have done the trick. But no, you seem to want to spoil
: the newsgroups here. What's the big deal?! Problems at home?! Problems with
: the wife?! Having to little fucks lately?! ;-)
: Harold
: (Amiga lover, peecee hater)
Jeroen T. Vermeulen
> If Macs such so much then why do you want to run the software so badly?
> And I do mean run the software badly in both senses of the phrase. I
> think an OS would suck if I couldn't run any useful software on it.
I've seen a LOT of useful applications running on essentially OS-less machines
(from Sinclair ZX-Spectrum to MS-DOS). It's just that those programs weren't
usually as good as on the Amiga, and had to implement most of the "OS"
themselves. And usability was lost altogether in the c00l c0ding process.
Some of those also had some kind of preemptive-multitasking hacks as well, BTW.
--
============================================================================
# Jeroen T. Vermeulen \"How are we doing kid?"/ Yes, we use Amigas. #
#--- j...@xs4all.nl ---\"Oh, same as always."/-- ... --#
#jver...@wi.leidenuniv.nl \ "That bad, huh?" / Got a problem with that? #
Giving a fuck is the nicest present
tem...@netins.net
>In article <0099F8A2...@netins.net>, tem...@netins.net wrote:
>
>
>>can run it. On this subject, you don't have a clue in hell about it.
>
>
No you are just upset that Amiga's can emulate mac software so perfectly.
> The average processing power of an Amiga is a 68020 at 14Mhz. There
>are some Amigas that are faster, but they are offset by the huge numbers
>of 68000 Amigas.
Where exactly did you see me say 'average Amiga'? I don't see it, do you?
I have never owned an 020 Amiga.. the Slowest Amiga I have is an 040 35mhz
Amiga. We now have 060 50mhz Amiga's, which run mac software faster than
any 680x0 Mac! Period! Amiga's will soon be using Power PC 604 Chip too,
so we will yet again run your Power Mac software faster than you can as well.
060 50mhz runs mac software at great speeds already however, much faster than
most mac's.
>The average processing power of a Mac is a 60Mhz PowerPC 601; sure, there
>are lots of 68030 and 68040 Macs, but there are also lots of 120Mhz
>PowerPC604-based Macs.
>
> Thus, to say that an Amiga (or a typical Amiga) can run Mac software as
>fast or faster than a typical Mac is nuts.
>
Like I said marky, I never said typical Old Amiga, I said Amiga! Don't
try to use average crap to try to support your discussion.
I bet you my Slower 040 Amiga can run more software than your fastest Power
Mac could ever dream of, and I will run Amiga,IBM, and your Mac software all
at the same time. Will let you know how the Power 604 Amiga runs your mac
software in a year or so. :)
>--
>Marc Barrett
>bar...@radiks.net
tem...@netins.net
The original poster was just being stupid and comparing an A4000 and
ignoring the fact that the A3000 is 100000x faster/nicer than the a4000.
Not to mention how nice/fast my A3000 is with a graphics card, like the
ibm's all have. Ibm users are stupid, just ignore such ignorance.
Michael van Elst
>The PowerMac is nothing but a big failure, Apple haven't manage to do one
>of those PowerMacs faster then the Quadra's with 040 yet!
Get a clue.
--
Michael van Elst
Internet: mle...@serpens.rhein.de
"A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Thomas Karlsen
> On 18 Mar 1996 15:38:00 +0100, har...@stack.urc.tue.nl (Harold Klink)
> wrote:
>
> >How about that for a dollar, huh?!
>
>
> So you pirated the ROMs AND the Operating System (if 7.5+) AND
> Shapeshifter?
>
How do you know he isn't running System 7.1, and the unrigistered version
of Shapeshifter (you have a test period you know) and have bought some
old ROMS from an Mac II or something for some dollars?
You really shouldn't be rude without knowing exactly what you are talking
about.
It's possible.
PETER SINCLAIR-DAY
> In article <barrett-1903...@desm-01-19.dialup.netins.net>, bar...@radiks.net (Marc N. Barrett) writes:
>>In article <0099F8A2...@netins.net>, tem...@netins.net wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Yes Amiga can run mac applications at the same speed or faster than most macs
>>>can run it. On this subject, you don't have a clue in hell about it.
>>
>> Sounds like you are the one lacking a clue.
>>
>
> No you are just upset that Amiga's can emulate mac software so perfectly.
Powermacs can emulate an Amiga..But who cares..
>
>> The average processing power of an Amiga is a 68020 at 14Mhz. There
>>are some Amigas that are faster, but they are offset by the huge numbers
>>of 68000 Amigas.
>
> Where exactly did you see me say 'average Amiga'? I don't see it, do you?
>
> I have never owned an 020 Amiga.. the Slowest Amiga I have is an 040 35mhz
> Amiga. We now have 060 50mhz Amiga's, which run mac software faster than
> any 680x0 Mac! Period! Amiga's will soon be using Power PC 604 Chip too,
> so we will yet again run your Power Mac software faster than you can as well.
> 060 50mhz runs mac software at great speeds already however, much faster than
> most mac's.
>
I would hope that the 060 Amiga running in 16 colors would be faster than 040
Macs, considering Apple never had a 060 one..
Those PowerPC Amigas are a pipe dream...And if they ever wash ashore in North
America, will be over priced and under power if the A4000t is any indication.
>>The average processing power of a Mac is a 60Mhz PowerPC 601; sure, there
>>are lots of 68030 and 68040 Macs, but there are also lots of 120Mhz
>>PowerPC604-based Macs.
>>
>> Thus, to say that an Amiga (or a typical Amiga) can run Mac software as
>>fast or faster than a typical Mac is nuts.
>>
>
> Like I said marky, I never said typical Old Amiga, I said Amiga! Don't
> try to use average crap to try to support your discussion.
>
> I bet you my Slower 040 Amiga can run more software than your fastest Power
> Mac could ever dream of, and I will run Amiga,IBM, and your Mac software all
> at the same time. Will let you know how the Power 604 Amiga runs your mac
> software in a year or so. :)
Big deal. We can do that too..IBM and Amiga....We do it better....->
>
>
>>--
>>Marc Barrett
>>bar...@radiks.net
PowerMacs does more....costs less....
GREETINGS..
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|----
| Peter Sinclair-Day POWER MACINTOSH 7100/80 |
| University of Northern Iowa |
| Graduate School of Library Science |
| Rod Library - Systems & Technology |
| |
| Internet-demo...@webcom.com / Type 'subscribe' in body of message |
| Http://www.rockgarden.com/andy/ |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|-
David Corn
wrote:
>In <4ijt7c$n...@nyx.cs.du.edu> kath...@nyx.cs.du.edu (Karl Thomas)
>writes:
>>Do you want to put that
>>Amiga in a non-interlaced, non-flickering graphics mode and watch it
>>crawl?
>
>Err.... not for nothing, but I am looking at my nonflickering 1950
>monitor plugged into my Amiga 3000 (or, if I wish, plug in my 17" PC
>monitor for a 'bigger' picture) and it isnt crawling. As a matter of
>fact, it is the same speed that my flickering 2000 is.
Because the Amiga 3000 has a deinterlace hardware port. The AGA
Amigas' speed nosedive when put into nonlace 640x400, and it's even
worse with 256 colors vs, say, 16 or 64.
Gary Alan Peake
I keep thinking about all the 'kids' that will finally be exposed to the
Amiga again. I remeber when C= made a special effort to get the 500's and
C64's in schools for free or at little cost. That's what started that
market force going.
Gary Peake "Mystic Meg" Fellow AMIGA Users:
-------------------------------------------------
Gem...@cup.portal.com Portal Communications | TEAM AMIGA is a grassroots
1:106/7512.1 Club Amiga-Houston,Tx | movement designed to provide
| support to all AMIGA users,
Proud supporter of Amiga Technologies | to AMIGA TECHNOLOGIES, and
Asst Co-ordinator ---> *TEAM AMIGA* | to all AMIGA vendors.
-------------------------------------------------
43 year old Beta-Tester AND Central American Exporter!
... Adding manpower to a late software project
makes it later still.
-*- ASTG 1.9
P A Williamson
Thomas) wrote:
> Right Amiga users are the only ones who are delusional enough to think
> that people don't want faster computers. It's really kind of pathetic.
> Amiga use use to brag about having faster hardware at an affordable price.
> Now they make excuses for overpriced mediocrity.
Karl, don't include "Amiga users" when you mean "some Amiga users". :-)
I want a faster cpu...I want RTG...I want a lot of things the Amiga
doesn't have yet. What I don't want is a faster cpu _just_ to make the OS
run at a decent speed. This has been the driving force behide the
Intel/Windows trash. The Mac (in my opinion) is pretty cool. If it wasn't,
I'd toss Shapeshifter and buy a "normal" PC..ie. a clone. :-)
Just for the record, I don't know ANY Amiga user that has a stock graphics
system ( a few dozen...ya, big deal :-) ).
tem...@netins.net
>Macs, considering Apple never had a 060 one..
>
An Amiga 040 can run faster than a mac 040 in many tests. :)
And in 16.7 million colors.
You didn't have a clue about this did you?
>Those PowerPC Amigas are a pipe dream...And if they ever wash ashore in North
>America, will be over priced and under power if the A4000t is any indication.
>
You are clueless about Amigas, but you happen to know that Power PC Amiga's
are never comming, or better to say you wish they would never come. Well
guy, sorry to burst your bubble but they are comming and when they do I will
bring this back in your face. PowerPC Chip Accellerator cards are already
being tested/developed. They are not a pipe dream as you would like to think.
If you are happy with your mac, go use it and stop wasting your time dreaming
in the Amiga areas that your mac would work as good. Amiga's are excellent
computers and we WILL soon have Power Amiga's. Face it and get over it, don't
cry about it.
>>>The average processing power of a Mac is a 60Mhz PowerPC 601; sure, there
>>>are lots of 68030 and 68040 Macs, but there are also lots of 120Mhz
>>>PowerPC604-based Macs.
>>>
>>> Thus, to say that an Amiga (or a typical Amiga) can run Mac software as
>>>fast or faster than a typical Mac is nuts.
>>>
>>
>> Like I said marky, I never said typical Old Amiga, I said Amiga! Don't
>> try to use average crap to try to support your discussion.
>>
>> I bet you my Slower 040 Amiga can run more software than your fastest Power
>> Mac could ever dream of, and I will run Amiga,IBM, and your Mac software all
>> at the same time. Will let you know how the Power 604 Amiga runs your mac
>> software in a year or so. :)
>
>Big deal. We can do that too..IBM and Amiga....We do it better....->
>>
Mac's can't do anything better. Mac OS sucks.
>>
>>>--
>>>Marc Barrett
>>>bar...@radiks.net
>
>PowerMacs does more....
Does more? Like what? It couldn't even come close in mulitasking and mac's
are very buggy compared to an Amiga.. mac's crash too much!
How exactly can a Mac do more than an Amiga, which can run all your software
perfectly? Mac OS can't compare to Amiga OS.
Gary Alan Peake
>>Do I have to say it again?
> Except that AT just announced that they have cancelled all custom hardware
>architecture starting with the PPC "Amigas". The Amiga is now dead. A port of
>PPC AmigaDOS running on clones is all there is.
Please cite the quote and post it here for all to see.
Thanks,
Gary Peake "Mystic Meg" Fellow AMIGA Users:
-------------------------------------------------
Gem...@cup.portal.com Portal Communications | TEAM AMIGA is a grassroots
1:106/7512.1 Club Amiga-Houston,Tx | movement designed to provide
| support to all AMIGA users,
Proud supporter of Amiga Technologies | to AMIGA TECHNOLOGIES, and
Asst Co-ordinator ---> *TEAM AMIGA* | to all AMIGA vendors.
-------------------------------------------------
43 year old Beta-Tester AND Central American Exporter!
... Keeping a modemer in suspense?
CLICK ... zzzzzzz
-*- ASTG 1.9
David Corn
>I have never owned an 020 Amiga.. the Slowest Amiga I have is an 040 35mhz
>Amiga. We now have 060 50mhz Amiga's, which run mac software faster than
>any 680x0 Mac! Period! Amiga's will soon be using Power PC 604 Chip too,
>so we will yet again run your Power Mac software faster than you can as well.
>060 50mhz runs mac software at great speeds already however, much faster than
>most mac's.
I wouldn't be bragging about that if I were you. I don't even think
Apple -makes- any more commercial-line non-portable 0x0 Macs! Suffice
to say the 060, while fast, isn't exactly competition for, say, a PPC
604 at 120 or 150. And that's the price range you're looking at for
the Amiga 4000/040 range with an 060.
>I bet you my Slower 040 Amiga can run more software than your fastest Power
>Mac could ever dream of, and I will run Amiga,IBM, and your Mac software all
>at the same time. Will let you know how the Power 604 Amiga runs your mac
>software in a year or so. :)
PC software? You either have hardware to do so (how fa..err, slow?)
or software, which is essentially unusable. Either way, big deal?
Apple's PC solutions are far better and far faster.
Marc N. Barrett
>>>I would hope that the 060 Amiga running in 16 colors would be faster than 040
>>Macs, considering Apple never had a 060 one..
>>
>
>An Amiga 040 can run faster than a mac 040 in many tests. :)
>And in 16.7 million colors.
>You didn't have a clue about this did you?
Show me an Amiga with no added hardware that can outperform a
68040-based Mac, also with no added hardware. BTW, don't try to fool me
because I have seen the messages recently that show the A4000's 040 card
to be slower than many 68030 cards. I'd also like to see an Amiga that
can run Mac software in 24-bits with no added hardware.
--
Marc Barrett
bar...@radiks.net
Byron Montgomerie
: In article <1996Mar22.0...@cobra.uni.edu>,
: PETER SINCLAIR-DAY <sincl...@cobra.uni.edu> wrote:
: >PowerMacs does more....costs less....
: Amigas taste great and are less filling! :)
So THAT is what you do with your amiga. ;)
Regards,
BM
Karl Thomas
>>>I would hope that the 060 Amiga running in 16 colors would be faster than 040
>>Macs, considering Apple never had a 060 one..
>>
>An Amiga 040 can run faster than a mac 040 in many tests. :)
>And in 16.7 million colors.
>You didn't have a clue about this did you?
A stock Amiga is slower than a stock Macin high-resolution graphics
modes. What Amiga can run faster than a Mac in 16.7 million colors without
an added graphics card? In that case you could add a comparable card to
the Mac for half the price. BTW, an '040 Mac is selling for about $499.
>If you are happy with your mac, go use it and stop wasting your time dreaming
>in the Amiga areas that your mac would work as good. Amiga's are excellent
>computers and we WILL soon have Power Amiga's. Face it and get over it, don't
>cry about it.
Where are the prototypes? Where are the developers that have committed
to it? Where is the OS for it? By this time in the PowerPC transition,
Apple already had alpha versions of the PPC version of the MacOS out to
key developers.
>>> I bet you my Slower 040 Amiga can run more software than your fastest Power
>>> Mac could ever dream of, and I will run Amiga,IBM, and your Mac software all
>>> at the same time. Will let you know how the Power 604 Amiga runs your mac
>>> software in a year or so. :)
>>
>>Big deal. We can do that too..IBM and Amiga....We do it better....->
>>>
>Mac's can't do anything better. Mac OS sucks.
Are you saying that SoftWindows '95 and DOS cards don't exist on the
Mac?
>Does more? Like what? It couldn't even come close in mulitasking and mac's
>are very buggy compared to an Amiga.. mac's crash too much!
My Mac hasn't crashed in over four months now.
>How exactly can a Mac do more than an Amiga, which can run all your software
>perfectly? Mac OS can't compare to Amiga OS.
It can run useful software. Try running Descent, Out of the Sun,
Quickdraw 3d, and Flying Nightmares on the Amiga using your Mac emulation
software (hint: They only work on PowerMacs). I don't even call running
68K Mac software with graphics speeds half that of the the Mac as running
as well as a Mac. One more thing, try running Marathon full screen, with
16-bit sound and graphics at high-resolution on an Amiga.
Gary Alan Peake
>
> >> Aside from those two points, I can run Mac software as fast (and
>sometimes
> >> faster) than a "real" 030 Mac. Which isn't bad considering I am using
>an
> >> 030 Amiga.
>
> MNB> The problem is, 030 Macs are slow. Much as I like Macs, I wouldn't
> MNB> want to use one that slow.
>
>...Which just goes to show that mr B. is suffering from the
>dreaded MegaHertz Syndrome.
>
>(Then again, we all knew that, while he, being deluded by flashy
>adverts, failed to see it all along.)
>
>A few years ago, he was uttering something about 030 Macs
>being soooo fast and, of course, oh so much better than an Amiga.
>
>MNB> PowerMac 6100s are readily available for less than
>MNB> $1000.
>
>Oh yes, right. Double that price for "somewhere in Europe" if
>you want keyboard & monitor.
Correct ... his Power Mac is JUST $2499.99 at Best Buy in Houston, Texas!
Gary Peake "Mystic Meg" Fellow AMIGA Users:
-------------------------------------------------
Gem...@cup.portal.com Portal Communications | TEAM AMIGA is a grassroots
1:106/7512.1 Club Amiga-Houston,Tx | movement designed to provide
| support to all AMIGA users,
Proud supporter of Amiga Technologies | to AMIGA TECHNOLOGIES, and
Asst Co-ordinator ---> *TEAM AMIGA* | to all AMIGA vendors.
-------------------------------------------------
43 year old Beta-Tester AND Central American Exporter!
... Unless you're the lead dog, the scenery never changes!
Ask Team OS/2
-*- ASTG 1.9
Ruud Dingemans
>> So you pirated the ROMs AND the Operating System (if 7.5+) AND
>> Shapeshifter?
TK> How do you know he isn't running System 7.1, and the unrigistered
TK> You really shouldn't be rude without knowing exactly what you are
TK> talking about.
Um, on that subject: only 7.0.1 is put on the Net by Apple, not
7.1 - this you have to buy...
Regards, Ruud
rdi...@grafix.xs4all.nl
-- Via Xenolink 1.985B5, XenolinkUUCP 1.1
tem...@netins.net
>In article <0099FCA1...@netins.net>, tem...@netins.net wrote:
>
>>>Macs, considering Apple never had a 060 one..
>>>
>>
>>An Amiga 040 can run faster than a mac 040 in many tests. :)
>>And in 16.7 million colors.
>>You didn't have a clue about this did you?
>
>68040-based Mac, also with no added hardware. BTW, don't try to fool me
>because I have seen the messages recently that show the A4000's 040 card
>to be slower than many 68030 cards. I'd also like to see an Amiga that
>can run Mac software in 24-bits with no added hardware.
>
>--
>Marc Barrett
>bar...@radiks.net
hahahaha.. Are you this fucking stupid? My Amiga 3000 040, thats right, it
is possible to have an o4o in an A3000, and it is not the commodore 040.
Don't be so dammmmmm stupid.. I can't stand such stupidity.
"No don't add any hardware to your Amiga, then I have nothing to talk about".
How fucking stupid. Well guess what, I can add hardware to my Amiga and I
have. It runs 24 bit gfx with an o4o processor, and runs mac software faster
than a real mac o4o. Go off and cry about it, don't make excuses or try
to change my computer's specs by telling me to remove hardware. What a joke!
> " Don't try to fool me"
I don't think that would be too difficult, you are a bit slow.
> because I have seen the messages recently that show the
hahaha.. Now we know where you base all your "non existant" knowledge on.
You read a message and you think you know something about an Amiga.
Go back to your lame mac newsgroups, you are TOO STUPID to be in these
groups.
Marc N. Barrett
What I am doing is responding to the tendency of Amiga users to take
Amigas and load them with thousands of dollars of the best accelerator and
graphics cards available, then compare them to stock Mac and PowerMac
systems. Of course, fairness is probably too stupid for you.
--
Marc Barrett
bar...@radiks.net
David Corn
>You have always been an idiot, I suppose we shouldn't expect anything else from
>you.
>Yes Amiga can run mac applications at the same speed or faster than most macs
>can run it. On this subject, you don't have a clue in hell about it.
*IF* you have an 060/50 WITH a $500, fast graphics card, THEN you can
run a Mac nearly as fast as the slowest PowerPC Macintosh ever made,
the 6100/60. There is no current Macintosh made (of the PPC series,
of which only 1 Mac doesn't belong) that is nearly that slow.
Clues in hell? Oh, really? How many, or what percentage, of Amiga
owners own an 060? I suspect it's a _very_ low percentage.
>My Amiga OS runs modern Apps.. It can also do most things a 'modern'? pc can,
Via MacOS, sure. What happens when most Mac apps become PPC-only?
Many games already are PPC-only, or heavily optimized for the PPC.
>gee I hate to use that word when describing an ibm computer. After all they
>are getting some shit like windows 95 and plug n play that everyone thinks is
>new on ibm and it doesn't even work. Not to mention Amiga had it 10 years ago.
>I really don't consider an ibm modern at all. Would you? I suppose so.
Yes, because I care about what I can do on the machine, and a PC lets
me do significantly more.