IBM Mouse on Amiga
Brian O'Brien
Can I attach a PC mouse to an Amiga? I have a Packard Bell Mouse ( small
5(?)pin male plug), an adapter that makes it compatible w/ the other type
of PC mouse connection (PS/2 I believe). It apears to be the same plug
type as the Amiga.
Can I plug this into my mother's A1200 as-is, or do I need to reroute some
connections?
--
Brian O'Brien
obr...@cs.fsu.edu
(904)562-4102
Alan James
Brian O'Brien <obr...@cs.fsu.edu> wrote:
>Can I attach a PC mouse to an Amiga? I have a Packard Bell Mouse ( small
>5(?)pin male plug), an adapter that makes it compatible w/ the other type
>of PC mouse connection (PS/2 I believe). It apears to be the same plug
>type as the Amiga.
>Can I plug this into my mother's A1200 as-is, or do I need to reroute some
>connections?
the is a program somewhereon aminet called SerMouse. It lets you use
PC serial mice on amigas. The package also contained info on
converting bus mice to amiga mice. I think you might have a bus mouse.
- Alan.
TONER
In article <83087320...@ranger.demon.co.uk>,
Sounds more like a PS-2 mouse. I believe this is another serial port standard.
Bus mice have 9 pins on them... You'll need an adaptor for your serial port and one of the serial mouse
drivers from aminet. Hopefully there is a hack to adapt the PS-2 to 25Db serial
ports on aminet as well, I'm not sure myself how to do it.
Bill
dmc...@nova.wright.edu
In article <01bb3617.e0ee9360$bce1...@fsu.edu.fsu.edu>, Brian O'Brien <obr...@cs.fsu.edu> writes:
> Can I attach a PC mouse to an Amiga? I have a Packard Bell Mouse ( small
> 5(?)pin male plug), an adapter that makes it compatible w/ the other type
> of PC mouse connection (PS/2 I believe). It apears to be the same plug
> type as the Amiga.
That is a serial plug not an amiga mouse plug.
>
> Can I plug this into my mother's A1200 as-is, or do I need to reroute some
> connections?
There are no similar connections. It is possible to hook one of those up
to the amiga serial port, but software is necessary to make it work. This
software may exist, look on Aminet.
I personally have been playing with building hardware to convert the serial
format of a 'microsoft' serial mouse into the amiga format. Its not a simple
task, you need a fairly significant programmable logic chip to do it with
one of those. You also need the ability to program one of those.
If you want more info on what I have worked out on the 'standard' (microsoft)
serial mouse format send me mail.
I want to use a Logitech Trackman with my Amiga, if you are wondering why
I would go to so much trouble. That and I have too much time on my hands.
>
>
> --
> Brian O'Brien
> obr...@cs.fsu.edu
> (904)562-4102
>
David McCann
Mike Hartigan
dmc...@nova.wright.edu wrote:
: I personally have been playing with building hardware to convert the serial
: format of a 'microsoft' serial mouse into the amiga format. Its not a simple
: task, you need a fairly significant programmable logic chip to do it with
: one of those. You also need the ability to program one of those.
: If you want more info on what I have worked out on the 'standard' (microsoft)
: serial mouse format send me mail.
: I want to use a Logitech Trackman with my Amiga, if you are wondering why
: I would go to so much trouble. That and I have too much time on my hands.
I suspect that you are already aware of this, but a bus-mouse can be used with
a simple cable adapter, available commercially for about $10-$15 (or was
available at one time - I bought one for $13.95) Also, plans have appeared in
magazines, and I believe on Aminet for making your own for about $5 worth of
parts and (depending on your expertise with a soldering iron) 1/2 hour of your
time. No software, minimal hardware, and my Logitech Mouseman Deluxe 3-button
mouse has worked flawlessly for the past 2 years!
@begin paranoid mode
Of course, as soon as the industry detected that bus-compatible mice were easily
adapted to the Amiga, they began disappearing from the market. Many of the
nicer pointing devices are now available only in serial versions.
@end paranoid mode
--
///
+-------------------------------------------///-------------------------+
+ | /// Mike Hartigan |
+ Was I late, or was the bus early? |\\\ /// hart...@interaccess.com |
+ | \\\/// |
+--------------------------------------\\\/-----------------------------+
Bruce Abbott
>Can I attach a PC mouse to an Amiga? I have a Packard Bell Mouse ( small
>5(?)pin male plug), an adapter that makes it compatible w/ the other type
>of PC mouse connection (PS/2 I believe). It apears to be the same plug
>type as the Amiga.
>Can I plug this into my mother's A1200 as-is, or do I need to reroute some
>connections?
>--
>Brian O'Brien
>obr...@cs.fsu.edu
>(904)562-4102
The PC mouse needs to be connected to a serial port, and could be gotten to
work with an appropriate driver ( just like on a PC! ), however this would not
work with any games etc. that access the normal mouse port directly. It would
also tie up your serial port so you couldn't use a MODEM. If you really want
to try it, you will find some Amiga serial mouse drivers on Aminet. You will
also need a 9 to 25 pin IBM AT serial port adapter.
Why not just use a proper Amiga mouse instead? They are a lot faster and more
accurate, and quite cheap to buy.
--
Bruce Abbott Hastings, New Zealand. bhab...@inhb.co.nz
--
Dave Haynie
In <4mfoij$j...@nntp.interaccess.com>, hart...@thymaster.interaccess.com (Mike Hartigan) writes:
>dmc...@nova.wright.edu wrote:
>: I personally have been playing with building hardware to convert the serial
>: format of a 'microsoft' serial mouse into the amiga format. Its not a simple
>: task, you need a fairly significant programmable logic chip to do it with
>: one of those. You also need the ability to program one of those.
You could do it with a cheap single-chip microprocessor, no
problem. There are lots of these things out there, many have PD
cross-compilers (alas, probably not ported to the Amiga), and can
usually be blown with a typical PROM/EPROM programmer. You'll need a
fairly real PLD for this, I fear, which can be a problem, since the
development kits for anything much beyond PALs generally go for big
bucks.
>: If you want more info on what I have worked out on the 'standard'
>: (microsoft) serial mouse format send me mail.
Of course, adapting to the mouse port is probably ideal; you work with
everything program on the planet, and you don't take away from an
otherwise useful port. On the other hand, the standard serial mice
ALMOST would work in the Amiga's serial port, with the proper driver.
The real problem with many, if not all, of the mice out there is that
they require a 7N1 serial stream, which Paula can't take.
>: I want to use a Logitech Trackman with my Amiga, if you are wondering why
>: I would go to so much trouble. That and I have too much time on my
>hands.
I have no time on my hands, but I have a similar dilemma. My favorite
input device is the Logictech Trackman Marble, which is a beautiful
thing -- a hand molded optical trackball. I want this to work on the
Amiga even though I have an Amiga mouse that works just dandy. The
other reason is that I'm trying to get down to a single keyboard and
mouse no matter how many computers I have in my office. I got a nice
electronic switchbox for this, but without going to extremes, the
PClone keyboard and serial mouse protocols are what you get to switch
around.
>I suspect that you are already aware of this, but a bus-mouse can be
>used with a simple cable adapter, available commercially for about
>$10-$15 (or was available at one time - I bought one for $13.95)
The bus mouse was the first mouse type to show up on the PC. Way back
when, PCs came stripped, and there wasn't much of a chance that you'd
have a spare serial port. And mice were just starting to spill over
from the Mac and Amiga worlds (or maybe the Xerox Altos) to the
PC. Anyway, the idea of the bus mouse is very similar to the way the
Amiga's mouse works -- you put some mouse-aware electronics on-board
that can track mouse quadrature signals (the pulses that give you
mouse direction and speed), and hook up the simplest possible
mouse. If only they had got the pinout right, these would have been
plug-compatible with the Amiga's mouse (the Amiga had no choice; its
mouse port convention had been set by the original Atari 2600, and
later C64, digital joystick port definition). So you swap around some
wires, and you get a bus mouse speaking Amiga.
The serial mouse came along thanks to one of those cheap-ass
single-chip micros I mentioned. The PC industry didn't create this;
workstations had used serial mice and other pointing devices for
years, but they were pricey back then. Once the PC industry blew out
zillions of these a year, they reached their current "$5.00 on up"
price point. The serial mouse takes the quadrature signals and encodes
them over a serial line. The original serial mice use real RS-232C
levels (+/-12V, or as close as the PC industry demands) and steals
power for itself from the outgoing RS-232 lines. IBM's PS/2 mouse
switched this idea to use TTL levels, and added a dedicated +5V
line; this saves them a couple of RS-232 drivers on the
motherboard. As far as the quadrature encodings go, there are several
standards, the most popular probably the Microsoft version. Many mice
can use either the Microsoft or Mouse Systems protocols. Fancier mice
can also tell if they're on an RS-232 or PS/2 port, and adapt
accordingly.
>@begin paranoid mode
>Of course, as soon as the industry detected that bus-compatible mice were easily
>adapted to the Amiga, they began disappearing from the market. Many of the
>nicer pointing devices are now available only in serial versions.
>@end paranoid mode
Yeah, that's the truth. Bus mice are generally not use in new PCs
these days, so the few that exist out there are going into older
systems, Amigas, etc. At the typical turnover rate for PClone
hardware, don't expect these to last much longer, except maybe as
special order items.
Dave Haynie | ex-Commodore Engineering | for DiskSalv 3 &
Sr. Systems Engineer | Hardwired Media Company | "The Deathbed Vigil"
Scala Inc., US R&D | Ki No Kawa Aikido | in...@iam.com
"Feeling ... Pretty ... Psyched" -R.E.M.
dmc...@nova.wright.edu
== STUFF DELETED ==
== STUFF DELETED ==
> @begin paranoid mode
> Of course, as soon as the industry detected that bus-compatible mice were easily
> adapted to the Amiga, they began disappearing from the market. Many of the
> nicer pointing devices are now available only in serial versions.
Yea, if I could have gotten a Trackman in a bus version I would have just
converted one of those.
> ///
> +-------------------------------------------///-------------------------+
> + | /// Mike Hartigan |
> + Was I late, or was the bus early? |\\\ /// hart...@interaccess.com |
> + | \\\/// |
Dave
dmc...@nova.wright.edu
== STUFF DELETED ==
> You could do it with a cheap single-chip microprocessor, no
> problem. There are lots of these things out there, many have PD
> cross-compilers (alas, probably not ported to the Amiga), and can
> usually be blown with a typical PROM/EPROM programmer. You'll need a
> fairly real PLD for this, I fear, which can be a problem, since the
> development kits for anything much beyond PALs generally go for big
> bucks.
I dont remember exactly, but it seemed to me that I could get setup for
Xilinx EPLD stuff for a couple of hundred. I -think- I can fit the design
into one of the larger ones. It seems to me there was some reason I
didnt want to use a microcontroller, but I can't think of one off-hand.
Speed maybe?
> I have no time on my hands, but I have a similar dilemma. My favorite
> input device is the Logictech Trackman Marble, which is a beautiful
> thing -- a hand molded optical trackball. I want this to work on the
> Amiga even though I have an Amiga mouse that works just dandy. The
> other reason is that I'm trying to get down to a single keyboard and
> mouse no matter how many computers I have in my office. I got a nice
> electronic switchbox for this, but without going to extremes, the
> PClone keyboard and serial mouse protocols are what you get to switch
> around.
Yea, the Marble is a nice one. I may end up buying one of those if I
get this working.
>
> Dave Haynie | ex-Commodore Engineering | for DiskSalv 3 &
> Sr. Systems Engineer | Hardwired Media Company | "The Deathbed Vigil"
> Scala Inc., US R&D | Ki No Kawa Aikido | in...@iam.com
>
> "Feeling ... Pretty ... Psyched" -R.E.M.
You wouldn't by chance know what speed the hardware will take pulses
and (more importantly) what speed the software reads the hardware.
Dave McCann
Bruce Abbott
>dmc...@nova.wright.edu wrote:
>: I personally have been playing with building hardware to convert the serial
>: format of a 'microsoft' serial mouse into the amiga format. Its not a
>: simple task, you need a fairly significant programmable logic chip to do it
>: with one of those. You also need the ability to program one of those.
>: If you want more info on what I have worked out on the 'standard'
>: (microsoft) serial mouse format send me mail.
>: I want to use a Logitech Trackman with my Amiga, if you are wondering why
>: I would go to so much trouble. That and I have too much time on my hands.
>I suspect that you are already aware of this, but a bus-mouse can be used
>with a simple cable adapter, available commercially for about $10-$15 (or was
>available at one time - I bought one for $13.95) Also, plans have appeared
>in magazines, and I believe on Aminet for making your own for about $5 worth
>of parts and (depending on your expertise with a soldering iron) 1/2 hour of
>your time. No software, minimal hardware, and my Logitech Mouseman Deluxe
>3-button mouse has worked flawlessly for the past 2 years!
>@begin paranoid mode
>Of course, as soon as the industry detected that bus-compatible mice were
>easily adapted to the Amiga, they began disappearing from the market. Many
>of the nicer pointing devices are now available only in serial versions.
>@end paranoid mode
>--
> ///
>+-------------------------------------------///-------------------------+
>+ | /// Mike Hartigan |
>+ Was I late, or was the bus early? |\\\ /// hart...@interaccess.com |
>+ | \\\/// |
>+--------------------------------------\\\/-----------------------------+
The IBM serial mouse really is a disgusting kludge that shouldn't work at
all. It pinches power from the TXD line so that it can send movement events
back on the RXD line. Many IBM mice draw too much current which makes them
flakey ( a standard RS232 driver supplies as little as 6mA ). They are slow
in response because of the low data rate and interrupt servicing overhead,
and of course they hog one of your serial ports. ( So you think an IBM is
better because it has two serial ports? But your mouse is in one, how many
you got left now? )
Dave Haynie
>> I have no time on my hands, but I have a similar dilemma. My favorite
>> input device is the Logictech Trackman Marble, ...
>Yea, the Marble is a nice one. I may end up buying one of those if I
>get this working.
I got it working, by installing an A2232 card I had lying around. It's
just a little bit quirky now and then, but for the most part it's
indistinguishable from the Amiga mouse's behavior.
>You wouldn't by chance know what speed the hardware will take pulses
The external sampling rate is like 1.8MHz on the OCS/ECS machines, and
around 200kHz on AA machines, if memory serves. So presumably, you
could feed it wicked fast pulses if you wanted too, though I don't
know what use that would be.
>and (more importantly) what speed the software reads the hardware.
I believe the counters are read on the vertical blanking interrupt. It
really doesn't make any sense to read it more often, since you can't
update the pointer any faster than that.