TICK vs _VSYNC
Eric Bailey
instead of the TICK position in an Amiga 2000??
I'm trying to figure out why some games that worked fine on my long gone
A500 don't work on my A2000 even after I switch to 1.3 and kill the
accelerator board. I don't want to crack the case open again if there's no
benefit to it.
Thanks,
Eric
A2K rev 6.2
DKB Megachip
1.3 & 2.04 ROMS -w- DKB Multistart
GVP 030 Combo 25mhz, 13MB
A2091, 2MB and 2 hard drives
ECS Denise
Amber Board
Ross Vumbaca
Eric Bailey wrote:
> What type problems might arise from using the _VSYNC position of J300
> instead of the TICK position in an Amiga 2000??
>
> I'm trying to figure out why some games that worked fine on my long gone
> A500 don't work on my A2000 even after I switch to 1.3 and kill the
> accelerator board. I don't want to crack the case open again if there's no
> benefit to it.
It's not as accurate so your clock floats, I see no problem for games.
On the other hand why don't you compare your configuration with a tyical
A500:
DKB Megachip - No A500 has this normally.
ECS Denise - No A500 has this normally.
Maybe they are the problem for some games?
Regards,
Ross..
Marcel DeVoe
> What type problems might arise from using the _VSYNC position of J300
> instead of the TICK position in an Amiga 2000??
Nothing except for a slightly slower or faster clock.
Unless you want to genlock something. ;)
> I'm trying to figure out why some games that worked fine on my long gone
> A500 don't work on my A2000 even after I switch to 1.3 and kill the
> accelerator board. I don't want to crack the case open again if there's no
> benefit to it.
Which games? There are VERY few games I can't get running on my A2000
booted into 1.3. The only game I have that I know won't run is Seven
Cities of Gold (came with my used A2000) which I believe was programmed to
run on AOS 1.1. and 1.2, but broke on 1.3.
> A2K rev 6.2
> DKB Megachip
> 1.3 & 2.04 ROMS -w- DKB Multistart
> GVP 030 Combo 25mhz, 13MB
> A2091, 2MB and 2 hard drives
> ECS Denise
> Amber Board
Hmm, I don't have the Megachip, 030 or Amber board.
I don't see a problem with the Amber board. You say you're sure the 030 is
disabled, so I might assume it's the Megachip that causes some problems
with some older games.
You might try some of the degrader programs on Aminet such as Tude.
But be assured it's not the "Tick". ;)
There's a program that's called Relokick1.3 that I have that will get 99%
of old games running on even my 060 equipped A4000, but only allows access
and booting from floppies.
I've not found it anywhere on the web, but email me and I'll send it.
--
Marcel J. DeVoe - mde...@shore.net - Team *AMIGA*
A4091scsi CV64 96 megs CDRW M1764-17" Catweasel FUSION/Emplant
A4000/060 CyberStorm MKII overclocked 66mhz - see "How to Overclock!"
and "DIY A4000 Tower for $45" @ http://www.shore.net/~mdevoe
Zipper
Marcel DeVoe <mde...@shore.net> kirjoitti viestissä:0YQ28.417$jl3....@news.shore.net...
> I don't see a problem with the Amber board. You say you're sure the 030 is
> disabled, so I might assume it's the Megachip that causes some problems
> with some older games.
I have Megachip2 and ECS Denise on my A500T/060.
With some old games it's necessary to switch to 0.5 or 1 M Chip.
TUDE is quite configurable and allows all kinds of tricks to mimick basic A500.
> There's a program that's called Relokick1.3 that I have that will get 99%
> of old games running on even my 060 equipped A4000, but only allows access
> and booting from floppies.
It's possible to do quite similar tricks from HD with TUDE and 1.3 Kickstart in Devs:Kickstarts.
Z
Angelo Vigliotti
"Marcel DeVoe" <mde...@shore.net> wrote in message
news:0YQ28.417$jl3....@news.shore.net...
I noticed one item in his setup that's probably the culprit.
The Multistart switch in combo with the GVP combo
restart to 68000 mode. The GVP cpuCTRL program
to restart the Amiga disabling the accelerator will also
cause the Multistart to default to it's primary rom since
the GVP cpuCTRL reset is really a hard reset to 68000
and the Multistart resets as if it was a cold boot.
And of course doing the 3 second reset again will
bring up the GVP again but now the secondary rom.
endless loop problem right cpu wrong rom, right rom
wrong cpu etc.
I presume you have the 3.1 rom as primary and the 1.3
as secondary. Can you boot a workbench 1.3 floppy
under the 68000 cpu and do a rev check.
Try putting the 1.3 as primary let workbench halt
to a cli prompt as 3.1 workbench won't load under
a 1.3 rom properly then execute the GVP CPUctrl
program from the cli prompt. This should
guarantee you have the right rom and the right
cpu combination for self booting games.
Degraders can be a benefit for some games but
I have found quite a few self booting games that
just can't cope with the warm reset degradation
provided, especially with a 3.1 rom running the
show but degraded options for chipmem, Hz etc.
as system functions are VERY different between
1.3 and 3.1 kickstart roms. That and the
3 second salute to get the multistart to switch
roms also effectively kills the degrader's
warm reset patches. Another endless loop
right cpu wrong rom, right rom wrong cpu,
right rom, wrong cpu no degradation benefits.
Jim
Daniele Gratteri
news:oQR28.92$_F1....@read2.inet.fi...
> I have Megachip2 and ECS Denise on my A500T/060.
WHAT? An A500T with a 68060 board? How did you installed it?
A friend of mine tried to make an A2000 compatible CPU slot for use with a
GVP GForce 030 without success...
--
____
/ ___|____ Daniele Gratteri, Italian Commodore and Amiga user / /
| | |___/ E-MAIL: daniele_...@inwind.it / /
| |___|___\ URL: http://utenti.tripod.it/danielegratteri \ \/ /
\____| IRC: FIAT1100D - ICQ: 53943994 \/\/
Ville Jouppi
wrote:
>"Zipper" <pekka....@elimaki.fi> ha scritto nel messaggio
>news:oQR28.92$_F1....@read2.inet.fi...
>
>> I have Megachip2 and ECS Denise on my A500T/060.
>
>WHAT? An A500T with a 68060 board? How did you installed it?
>A friend of mine tried to make an A2000 compatible CPU slot for use with a
>GVP GForce 030 without success...
Probably a Micronik backplane..
Wish I had bought the A500 tower + backplane when they were still making
them.. :-(
--
CBM, Amiga and PEZ-nut, Scout, Glider pilot, Administrator
Email: vjo...@sci.fi, URL: http://www.sci.fi/~vjouppi/
GSM: +358-40-5679999, IRCNet: Jope
Arabuusimiehet World Domination
Daniele Gratteri
news:o21p4ug7cqeqq32fo...@4ax.com...
> Probably a Micronik backplane..
Ah-a! I thought to home-made CPU slot and towerization.
Eric Bailey
First off, when I had an A500 (rev 5), I had the Megachip and the ECS Denise
(these very same ones) installed with 1.3 ROMs and never had a problem
running anything. Didn't have the Multistart though.
I am fairly certain that the multistart gives me the 1.3 Rom even after
using the GvpCpuCtrl to restart it. I select the 1.3 Rom via the long warm
reboot and then reboot again to shut off the accellerator. Sysinfo reports
back the correct configuation. I use Chips Challenge Crystal Hammer,
Dungeon Master, and others in this way with no problems. Just a few more
disk swaps at startup.
The game I'm having most trouble with is Flight of the Intruder by Spectrum
Holobyte. When I try to run it I get snow and lines on the screen and the
game doesn't respond to control inputs (mouse, joystick, keyboard). It
won't even load with the 2.04 Rom selected or the accellerator active.
I've also noted timing problems when running those cool old demo programs
that ran smooth on the 500.
I'll check out Aminet for the degrader programs.
If I'd have seen this problem comming I would have kept the A500 around.
Second, would a genlock work better or worse with _VSYNC selected?
Thanks,
Eric
Angelo Vigliotti <jame...@AThome.com> wrote in message
news:oSS28.30264$dG.14...@news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com...
Zipper
Ville Jouppi <vjo...@sci.fi> kirjoitti viestissä:o21p4ug7cqeqq32fo...@4ax.com...
> >> I have Megachip2 and ECS Denise on my A500T/060.
> >WHAT? An A500T with a 68060 board? How did you installed it?
> >A friend of mine tried to make an A2000 compatible CPU slot for use with a
> >GVP GForce 030 without success...
> Probably a Micronik backplane..
Yep.
> Wish I had bought the A500 tower + backplane when they were still making
> them.. :-(
Well, costa lotta ;-) About $ 500 in 1996 (plus Blizzard 2060 plus PicassoII plus PicassoIV plus 128 MB
plus HDs plus plus ....).
Z
Marcel DeVoe
> Ok, Lets see if I can get all the answers into this one.
> First off, when I had an A500 (rev 5), I had the Megachip and the ECS Denise
> (these very same ones) installed with 1.3 ROMs and never had a problem
> running anything. Didn't have the Multistart though.
> I am fairly certain that the multistart gives me the 1.3 Rom even after
> using the GvpCpuCtrl to restart it. I select the 1.3 Rom via the long warm
> reboot and then reboot again to shut off the accellerator. Sysinfo reports
> back the correct configuation. I use Chips Challenge Crystal Hammer,
> Dungeon Master, and others in this way with no problems. Just a few more
> disk swaps at startup.
> The game I'm having most trouble with is Flight of the Intruder by Spectrum
> Holobyte. When I try to run it I get snow and lines on the screen and the
> game doesn't respond to control inputs (mouse, joystick, keyboard). It
> won't even load with the 2.04 Rom selected or the accellerator active.
> I've also noted timing problems when running those cool old demo programs
> that ran smooth on the 500.
I have noticed that some games won't run at all on my NTSC Amiga unless I
put in a program that will switch to a PAL screen before the program
loads. Nico Francois' PAL and NTSC programs fit that bill. But on some
NDOS disks, that next to impossible. So there are some rebooters that will
switch to a PAL screen upon a reboot and disable your 1 meg to 1/2
meg fast ram. PalCom was one of them.
Then again I thought the FOTI game was system friendly?
> I'll check out Aminet for the degrader programs. I remember it being
quite popular. I believe that one is on Back to the Roots web site.
Ill check it out.
> If I'd have seen this problem comming I would have kept the A500 around.
> Second, would a genlock work better or worse with _VSYNC selected?
AFAIK, a genlock needs exact syncing to the line frequency (or was it a
Toaster, or a Time Base Corrector (TBC) or all the above?), hence the
"tick" signal from which it gets it's timing. As a side benefit it gives a
more exact clock.
BTW, the A500 doesn't have it.
--
Marcel J. DeVoe - mde...@shore.net - Team *AMIGA*
Marcel DeVoe
> "Marcel DeVoe" <mde...@shore.net> wrote in message
> news:0YQ28.417$jl3....@news.shore.net...
>> Eric Bailey <etba...@bogus.net> wrote:
>> > A2K rev 6.2
>> > DKB Megachip
>> > 1.3 & 2.04 ROMS -w- DKB Multistart
>> > GVP 030 Combo 25mhz, 13MB
>> > A2091, 2MB and 2 hard drives
>> > ECS Denise
>> > Amber Board
> I noticed one item in his setup that's probably the culprit.
> The Multistart switch in combo with the GVP combo
> restart to 68000 mode. The GVP cpuCTRL program
> to restart the Amiga disabling the accelerator will also
> cause the Multistart to default to it's primary rom since
> the GVP cpuCTRL reset is really a hard reset to 68000
> and the Multistart resets as if it was a cold boot.
> And of course doing the 3 second reset again will
> bring up the GVP again but now the secondary rom.
> endless loop problem right cpu wrong rom, right rom
> wrong cpu etc.
I don't think this is going to happen. You have to actually physically
hold down those reset keys for the requisite 5 seconds before the
Multistart will switch to the alternate rom. Just a reboot, even a hard
one via a program or crash won't do it. I have a program I've set up in
Toolsdeamon that actually does a hard reboot and it doesn't do it. It's
not like the power has been removed.
--
Marcel J. DeVoe - mde...@shore.net - Team *AMIGA*
croupier
> On Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:32:28 +0100, "Daniele Gratteri" <viva...@libero.it>
> wrote:
>
> >"Zipper" <pekka....@elimaki.fi> ha scritto nel messaggio
> >news:oQR28.92$_F1....@read2.inet.fi...
> >
> >> I have Megachip2 and ECS Denise on my A500T/060.
> >
> >WHAT? An A500T with a 68060 board? How did you installed it?
> >A friend of mine tried to make an A2000 compatible CPU slot for use with a
> >GVP GForce 030 without success...
>
> Probably a Micronik backplane..
>
> Wish I had bought the A500 tower + backplane when they were still making
> them.. :-(
What is this Micronik backplane thing!?
Zipper
croupier <crou...@winning.com> kirjoitti viestissä:40e818de.02012...@posting.google.com...
> What is this Micronik backplane thing!?
Tower adapted for A500 motherboard, PSU and a ZorroII busboard with 3 ZorroII slots and A2000-type
accelerator slot.
Z
Zipper
Tower adapted for A500 motherboard, PSU and a ZorroII busboard with 3 ZorroII slots and A2000-type
accelerator slot. Just like the first Micronik tower for A1200.
Z
Angelo Vigliotti
Only one item though. When you switch to 68k mode isn't the GVP
completely invisible to the system? No ram, no scsi, no 68030?
Given that and warm patches or degrader would have resided in
the GVP ram and the GVP cpu ctrl does really do a hard
reset equivalent of power off/on to give control back to
the 68k original. For the GVP to drop out like that it
would have to hold the cpu slot activation low for a second
or two so the original 68k can take over.
The multistart is latched to Gary via the jumper wire to get
it's reset signal. Wonder if the GVP ctrl program affects
reset on Gary to cause this.
Granted ideally the Multistart shouldn't reset but it's worth testing
by putting the 1.3 rom as primary.
Just for test sake I would remove the GVP, use just the
1.3 kickstart and see if the system can boot the game
since then the 2000 would effectively be just an A500
with zorro slots then.
Jim
Marcel DeVoe
> "Marcel DeVoe" <mde...@shore.net> wrote in message
>> I don't think this is going to happen. You have to actually physically
>> hold down those reset keys for the requisite 5 seconds before the
>> Multistart will switch to the alternate rom. Just a reboot, even a hard
>> one via a program or crash won't do it. I have a program I've set up in
>> Toolsdeamon that actually does a hard reboot and it doesn't do it. It's
>> not like the power has been removed.
> Only one item though. When you switch to 68k mode isn't the GVP
> completely invisible to the system? No ram, no scsi, no 68030?
> Given that and warm patches or degrader would have resided in
> the GVP ram and the GVP cpu ctrl does really do a hard
> reset equivalent of power off/on to give control back to
> the 68k original. For the GVP to drop out like that it
> would have to hold the cpu slot activation low for a second
> or two so the original 68k can take over.
> The multistart is latched to Gary via the jumper wire to get
> it's reset signal. Wonder if the GVP ctrl program affects
> reset on Gary to cause this.
> Granted ideally the Multistart shouldn't reset but it's worth testing
> by putting the 1.3 rom as primary.
> Just for test sake I would remove the GVP, use just the
> 1.3 kickstart and see if the system can boot the game
> since then the 2000 would effectively be just an A500
> with zorro slots then.
Worth a shot trying it I guess.
So how about it, Eric Bailey?
How badly do you want to get "Flight of the Intruder" working? ;-)
--
Marcel J. DeVoe - mde...@shore.net - Team *AMIGA*
Hidehiko Ogata
> The game I'm having most trouble with is Flight of the Intruder by
> Spectrum Holobyte. When I try to run it I get snow and lines on the
> screen and the game doesn't respond to control inputs (mouse, joystick,
> keyboard). It won't even load with the 2.04 Rom selected or the
> accellerator active.
Just checked it on A2000/030... looks like VBR needs to be reset for
this one. This would do with TUDE: "TUDE VBASE=ZERO".
(This relocates the exception vector table to the initial location at
the bottom of the memory, where many games wrongly assume it to be.)
> If I'd have seen this problem comming I would have kept the A500
> around.
You might as well check out "http://www.whdload.de/" for patches/HD-
installers. Discussion on the delicacy of running oldies would be
always welcome in c.s.a.games too ;).
Hope this helps,
--
// }{idehiko ()gata "War is over, if you want it"
\X/ Amiga since '86 - John Lennon