A4000T - IDE HDD

ja...@colossus.cs.wits.ac.za

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May 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/13/98

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Why does a A4000T Refuse to recognize or even boot when i try to connect a
ide HDD to it? The cable and drive BOTH work on a pc and an a1200.

The a4000T has ks3.1 an a4091 scsi controller and a cyberstorm mk2 060/50
with scsi controller...

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Warpcore

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May 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/13/98

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>Exactly like you said :
>a4000T have a 4091 SCSI controller , not an IDE controller
>a4000T is not a a4000 which had a so-called scsi.device (really a
>ide.device)
>neither a a1200 which had the same ide controller.
>
>So in a4000T you need a SCSI HDD.

Not so... I have a quickpak A4000T and it has both IDE and SCSI in it Factory supplied. I have two IDE drives and two SCSI drives in there. The IDE port is down on the motherboard next to the memory and CPU slots.

Rick

Pierre Neel

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May 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/14/98

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ja...@colossus.cs.wits.ac.za a écrit dans le message
<6jbmgk$6i1$1...@nntp.wits.ac.za>...

Exactly like you said :

a4000T have a 4091 SCSI controller , not an IDE controller
a4000T is not a a4000 which had a so-called scsi.device (really a
ide.device)
neither a a1200 which had the same ide controller.

So in a4000T you need a SCSI HDD.

Pierre Neel
pierr...@hol.fr

The TURNERMATOR

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May 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/14/98

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>
>
> >Exactly like you said :
> >a4000T have a 4091 SCSI controller , not an IDE controller
> >a4000T is not a a4000 which had a so-called scsi.device (really a
> >ide.device)
> >neither a a1200 which had the same ide controller.
> >
> >So in a4000T you need a SCSI HDD.
>

> Not so... I have a quickpak A4000T and it has both IDE and SCSI in it Factory supplied. I have two IDE drives and two SCSI drives in there. The IDE port is down on the motherboard next to the memory and CPU slots.
>
> Rick
>

I have problems along these lines too.
Here's my spec. :

A4000T 060 / 604e + w_SCSI ( cybppc.device )

Motherboard IDE ( scsi.device )

A card at the back which has the floppy + "real" scsi controllers
on it. This is not a third party device, so I'm assuming its
an afterthought on the part of AI. In the absense of any IDE
drives this defaults to ( scsi.device ), but if you add a "real"
scsi drive on the "real" scsi chain, then it does something really
strange.

Any IDE drives hooked to the motherboard are driven by ( scsi.device ).
Any SCSI drives hooked to the scsi controller are driven by ...
wait for it ... ( 2nd.scsi.device ), which magically appears from
nowhere - BUT - before any of this happens the following tragedy
occurs :

I boot from cold ... fine. The system autoconfigs ... fine. Then
without any mercy - SOFTWARE FAILURE 80000025 - reboot. Then it goes
to autoconfig again - BUT - this time succeeds. And 2nd.scsi.device
is born - hurrah ! All subsequent warm resets go un-guru-fied.

But I always get the initial guru from a cold start.

Now, before you ask - I have an IDE drive to stop the system waiting
25-30 seconds for the drive-that-never-was to say hello. I tried the
patch NoIDE ( and others off Aminet ) but they cause worse problems
than the little gurumentalation I get with the drive - so, the lesser
of two EvIlS methinks. Also I tried the patch LoadV43Module
a4000ti.ld.strip but guess what - yes its guru time again ... bummer.

Any suggestions ?

Constructive ones - that is.

The TURNERMATOR
xxx

Tristan Fletcher

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May 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/14/98

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>> Why does a A4000T Refuse to recognize or even boot when i try to connect
>> a ide HDD to it? The cable and drive BOTH work on a pc and an a1200.

pnh> Exactly like you said :
pnh> a4000T have a 4091 SCSI controller , not an IDE controller a4000T is
pnh> not a a4000 which had a so-called scsi.device (really a ide.device)
pnh> neither a a1200 which had the same ide controller.

pnh> So in a4000T you need a SCSI HDD.

A4000T's have both SCSI and IDE interfaces.

Tris.
--
|Fidonet: Tristan Fletcher 2:2500/632.33
|Internet: tristan....@severed.overflow.com
|
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his/her own.

john aadnoey

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May 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/14/98

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>I have problems along these lines too.
>Here's my spec. :

>A4000T 060 / 604e + w_SCSI ( cybppc.device )

>Motherboard IDE ( scsi.device )

>A card at the back which has the floppy + "real" scsi controllers
>on it. This is not a third party device, so I'm assuming its
>an afterthought on the part of AI. In the absense of any IDE
>drives this defaults to ( scsi.device ), but if you add a "real"
>scsi drive on the "real" scsi chain, then it does something really
>strange.

>Any IDE drives hooked to the motherboard are driven by ( scsi.device ).
>Any SCSI drives hooked to the scsi controller are driven by ...
>wait for it ... ( 2nd.scsi.device ), which magically appears from
>nowhere - BUT - before any of this happens the following tragedy
>occurs :

There are probably to devices in use, both named scsi.device
I have a Buddha additional IDE controller in my computer and this
to gets this name... Shouldn't be of any problem, probably done by the
system at autoconfiguring..

Another one with the same name will be called 3rd.scsi.device

Just like as if you put in two HD's both named the same on the same
device the second will automaically named title.1:

example

HD1:

number two becomes
HD1.1:

>I boot from cold ... fine. The system autoconfigs ... fine. Then
>without any mercy - SOFTWARE FAILURE 80000025 - reboot. Then it goes
>to autoconfig again - BUT - this time succeeds. And 2nd.scsi.device
>is born - hurrah ! All subsequent warm resets go un-guru-fied.

>But I always get the initial guru from a cold start.

>Now, before you ask - I have an IDE drive to stop the system waiting
>25-30 seconds for the drive-that-never-was to say hello. I tried the
>patch NoIDE ( and others off Aminet ) but they cause worse problems
>than the little gurumentalation I get with the drive - so, the lesser
>of two EvIlS methinks. Also I tried the patch LoadV43Module
>a4000ti.ld.strip but guess what - yes its guru time again ... bummer.

>Any suggestions ?

The A4000ti.ld.strip system probably does not work without Workbench3.1

John Aadnøy

<tsb> *Team* *Amiga*
<tsb> Amiga4000EagleTower / Quantum 3.8GB HD / Cyberstorm II 060@50MHZ
<tsb> CYBERSCSI / 144MB Fastram / 2MB Chipram / Cybervision 64 4MB
<tsb> Nec x16CD-ROM SCSI-II / Buddha Additional IDE controller
<tsb> Microvitec 1438 14" / Multifacecard III
<tsb> *Team* *Amiga*
<tsb> Hvalen er stor i 'kjeften' og stor av 'natur'!!

The TURNERMATOR

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May 14, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/14/98

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> >Any IDE drives hooked to the motherboard are driven by ( scsi.device ).
> >Any SCSI drives hooked to the scsi controller are driven by ...
> >wait for it ... ( 2nd.scsi.device ), which magically appears from

... etc

> There are probably to devices in use, both named scsi.device

..

> Another one with the same name will be called 3rd.scsi.device

Yes I've figured that out already thanx.

> >................................ Also I tried the patch LoadV43Module
> >a4000t.ld.strip but guess what - yes its guru time again ... bummer.
>
> >Any suggestions ?
>
> The A4000t.ld.strip system probably does not work without Workbench3.1

Er ... mines a brand new 4000T WITH KS/WB 3.1. ( 40.70 / 40.42 resp )

So no solution there then.

I just want to be able to hook up an IDE drive to the motherboard
without guru. Jeez !

The TURNERMATOR

ja...@colossus.cs.wits.ac.za

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May 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/15/98

to

Ah, looks like someone else has the same problem... :)

Can *anyone* answer this it is *VERY* strange... i don't even get the
2ndscsi.device appearing...:-(

And *please* I *KNOW* for a *FACT* that the 4000T has got an ide interface
on the motherboard and it comes with the a4091 scsi controller... please
dont argue *grin*

Is it possible that there is a conflict if one of the scsi drives is unit 0
and its getting confused as to if the ide should be unit 0 on scsi.device or
if the scsi drive should be unit 0?

Any ideas ???

Thanks

Gl...@canit.se

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May 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/15/98

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> + On 14-Maj-98 01:51:14
+Pierre Neel <pierr...@hol.fr> wrote

>>The a4000T has ks3.1 an a4091 scsi controller and a cyberstorm mk2 060/50
>>with scsi controller...
>>
>>Any help would be greatly appreciated.

>Exactly like you said :

>a4000T have a 4091 SCSI controller , not an IDE controller

Wrong, itg have a SCSI AND IDE controller..

>a4000T is not a a4000 which had a so-called scsi.device (really a
>ide.device) neither a a1200 which had the same ide controller.

An A4000T is a redesigned A4000 MB, with some improvements..

>So in a4000T you need a SCSI HDD.

Or an IDE HD..

>Pierre Neel
>pierr...@hol.fr

| ___ | Email 姣 Sha...@bay-watch.com |
| / __\ __ | Homepage 姣 http://www.canit.se/~glenn |
| __ / /__ / /__ ____ ____ __ | IRC 姣 XT600 @ IRC-net |
| (__/ /_ // / -_) _ ) _ )__) | 8 Amigas, 5 PC's, 12 8-bit computers. |
| \___//_/\__/_//_/_//_/ | T h e K i n g d o m o f S w e d e n |

Oliver Kastl

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May 17, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/17/98

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The TURNERMATOR wrote in message
<355B67F5.MD-0....@ukonline.co.uk>...

>
>Er ... mines a brand new 4000T WITH KS/WB 3.1. ( 40.70 / 40.42 resp )
>
>So no solution there then.
>
>I just want to be able to hook up an IDE drive to the motherboard
>without guru. Jeez !

You can try the IDE-fix '97 demo on Aminet or http://www.elaborate-bytes.com

Load IDEfix with "LoadIDE", this should work.

>
>The TURNERMATOR

Cheers, Oliver

Blair Wickstrand

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May 17, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/17/98

to

>
> Can *anyone* answer this it is *VERY* strange... i don't even get the
> 2ndscsi.device appearing...:-(
>
> And *please* I *KNOW* for a *FACT* that the 4000T has got an ide interface
> on the motherboard and it comes with the a4091 scsi controller... please
> dont argue *grin*

You durned tootin' right its got an IDE interface. The thing is,
I didn't find a lot of oldish IDE disks that work on it.

>
> Is it possible that there is a conflict if one of the scsi drives is unit 0
> and its getting confused as to if the ide should be unit 0 on scsi.device or
> if the scsi drive should be unit 0?

No chance of that.
If you have a working IDE disk on the system, its recognized as a
scsi.device , The SCSI devices will be known as 2nd.scsi.device if
in fact you do have working SCSI devices on the bus. What I found is
that if I had an IDE ATAPI CDROM on the bus and no other IDE devices
and I had SCSI disks attached to the thing, that IDE was not found
and therefore the disks on The SCSI bus were known as scsi.device while
there was no 2nd.scsi.device available. Its a gotcha in the making !

I simply said "screw-it" for the IDE stuff and went totally SCSI.

Blair

-== IceIQle v2.04 ==-

Blair Wickstrand

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May 17, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/17/98

to

>
> Why does a A4000T Refuse to recognize or even boot when i try to connect a
> ide HDD to it? The cable and drive BOTH work on a pc and an a1200.
>

> The a4000T has ks3.1 an a4091 scsi controller and a cyberstorm mk2 060/50
> with scsi controller...

I've seen similiar symptoms with my 4000T with IDE disks attached
to it. Some IDE disks work fine, others not so fine. Apparently
we are looking at cases where the IDE drives that don't work
have bugs in the mode 0 and/or mode 1 command sets even though
I swore up and down that the problem lays in the IDE implementation
of the 4000T.

Bottom line, forget the IDE drives thats giving you trouble. Thats
the best I can suggest

Martin Bertelsmann

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May 25, 1998, 3:00:00 AM5/25/98

to ja...@colossus.cs.wits.ac.za

Hi,

ja...@colossus.cs.wits.ac.za wrote:
>
> Ah, looks like someone else has the same problem... :)
>

> Can *anyone* answer this it is *VERY* strange... i don't even get the
> 2ndscsi.device appearing...:-(
>
> And *please* I *KNOW* for a *FACT* that the 4000T has got an ide interface
> on the motherboard and it comes with the a4091 scsi controller... please
> dont argue *grin*

Well, at least it is stated in the manual ;) and it worked here.

> Is it possible that there is a conflict if one of the scsi drives is unit 0
> and its getting confused as to if the ide should be unit 0 on scsi.device or
> if the scsi drive should be unit 0?

Maybe your problem isnt the A4kT itself but your startup-sequence?
I assume that you had an scsi only system before and due to that all
entries in mountlists etc. are named to scsi.device (like CD0:). As in
the standard startp sequence, all mountlists in devs:dosdrivers are
mounted, this may cause your problems. Because of the installation of a
IDE device, the scsi.device is now called 2nd.scsi.device and so the
mountlists dont match any longer. Probably devices beeing mounted with
an invalid mountlist cause your crash. So boot without startup sequence
and see if hdtoolbox etc. work. You can also edit your startup-sequence
at that point and disable the mounting of devs:dosdrivers/#? and or type
"set echo on" as the first line of the startup-sequence to see where the
machine crashes when it tries to boot.

> Any ideas ???
>
> Thanks

Ciao

Martin