Amiga CD 32 - facts by C= !!!
Hannes Gnad
To stop all senseless dicussions about technical details or pricing of the
new 'Amiga 32 CD console' , here are pure, confirmed facts.
They are truely from Dr. Peter Kittel, C= Germany.
If you don't believe me, take a good look into 'de.comp.sys.amiga.misc'.
This is where his posting is from.
Now, for all who have major problems with German or who unfortunately don't
have access to this newsgroup, I put his posting into these newsgroups,
adding some translations.
As I'm not a master of English (and as I don't have my dictionaries with me),
the translation will be a bit free (and with mistakes), but I hope it will
be good enough to get the point.Have fun.
> From: pet...@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com (Dr Peter Kittel Germany)
> Subject: Re: Die Amiga CD 32 Konsole
> Date: 1 Jul 93 12:33:22 GMT
>
> Gestern war nun in Muenchen eine Pressekonferenz zu dem Teil, und da hat
> man uns erlaubt, endlich Laut zu geben :-).
Yesterday, there was a press conference in Munich referring this machine,
and we were allowed to say anything to it. :-)
> Ja, das Teil ist Realitaet. Was im Otto-Katalog steht, stimmt natuer-
> lich fast, lediglich zwei Details muessen da irgendwo falsch durchge-
> rutscht sein (wir bitten um Verstaendnis, ich wasche mangels Beteili-
> gung meine Haende in Unschuld): 1. Es gibt leider *keinen* RGB-Ausgang;
> 2. eine Erweiterung um weitere 2 MB ist hoechstens in der fuer spaeter
> angekuendeten Erweiterungsbox zum vollen Computer enthalten, nicht
> jedoch im Grundgeraet.
Yes, this machine is reality. What was printed in the 'Otto' catalogue, is
certainly nearly right, only two details are somehow wrong (we are sorry
about this, but I'm innocend because I had nothing to do with it).
1. Unfortunately, there's *no* RGB output.
2. A ram expansion with further 2MB will be only, if ever, included in the
announced computer-expansion box, but not in the basic machine.
> So, und hier der offizielle Pressetext, der auf der Pressekonferenz
> vorgelegt wurde (Vorsicht: Umlaute!):
Now, here's the official press text, which was given to the press at the
conference (beware of special German letters!):
> Commodore Büromaschinen GmbH
> 60528 Frankfurt, Lyoner Straße 38
German C= address.
> Für sofortige Veröffentlichung:
For immediate publishing.
> Ansprechpartner: Karola Bode
> Leiterin Marketing/Kommunikation
> Pressesprecherin
>
> Telefon: 069/6638-157
> Fax: 069/6638-139
Contact person, name, title, phone & fax number.
> AMIGA CD32
>
> Die neue Generation:
> Spielvergnügen und Computertechnologie,
> die ultimative Game-Maschine für alle Action-Fans!
The new generation:
'Playing Fun' and computer technology,
the ultimate game machine for all action-fans!
> Mit der Einführung des AMIGA CD32 bringt Commodore volle
> 32-Bit-Leistung in die Spielewelt. Ein neues Zeitalter der
> Unterhaltungselektronik ist angebrochen. Technologie und Spielfreude
> werden perfekt in einem Gerät kombiniert.
Introducing the AMIGA CD32, Commodore gets full 32-bit-performance into the
games' world. A new age of entertainment electronics has begun. Technology
and 'Playing Fun' perfectly combined in one machine.
> AMIGA CD32 bietet mit seinem 32-Bit-Prozessor und seinem
> 32-Bit-Grafikbeschleuniger außergewöhnliche Grafikfähigkeiten.
> Die Farbbrillianz wird erzeugt durch 256.000 Farben gleichzeitig
> aus einer Palette von 16,8 Millionen. Durch die neue Technologie
> wird eine Geschwindigkeit und eine Reaktionszeit erreicht, die
> den Spielspaß zum echten Erlebnis werden läßt.
AMIGA CD32 with it's 32-bit-CPU and it's 32-bit-graphics-accelerators offers
outstanding graphics abilities. The colour-brilliance is being done by
256.000 colours on the screen the same time, out of a palette of 16,8 Mio.
By this new technology, a speed and a reaction time is being achieved, which
will make 'Playing Fun' become a real experiance.
> Das CD-ROM-Laufwerk mit Toplade-Mechanismus läßt sich leicht
> bedienen. Die CD wird eingelegt, und AMIGA CD32 startet automatisch.
> 4 CD-Standards stehen zur Verfügung:
> Audio CD, CD+G (Grafik), CDTV und AMIGA CD32. Die CD-Technologie
> bietet Musik in Konzertqualität mit digitalem Stereo-Sound bei
> einer Samling-Rate von 44 kHz.
The CD-ROM-drive with top-loading-mechanism is easy to operate.
The CD is being inserted, and AMIGA CD32 starts automatically.
4 CD-Stardards are available:
Audio CD, CD+G (graphics), CDTV and AMIGA CD32. The CD technology offers
music in concert quality with digital stereo-sound at a sampling rate of 44
khz.
> Das mitgelieferte Spielpult ermöglicht dem Spieler eine präzise
> Steuerung über ergonomisch konstruierte Tasten. Der Game-Controller
> reagiert prompt, sensibel und auergewöhnlich schnell.
The included game pad allows the player a precise control by ergonomically
designed buttons. The game controller reacts immediate, sensible and
extraordinarily fast.
> AMIGA CD32 setzt einen neuen Standard im Preis-/Leistungsverhältnis
> der Gamekonsolen.
The AMIGA CD32 sets up a new price/perfomance standard in the game console
market.
> Als Zusatzoption wird ab Herbst '93 das MPEG Video-Modul für
> über 70 Minuten Video zu einem außergewöhnlichen Preis verfügbar sein.
> AMIGA CD32-Full-Motion-Videomodul bietet bei 30 Bildern je Sekunde
> 1:1 Fernsehqualität.
In Fall '93, the MPEG Video-Module for more than 70 minutes of video will be
available as an option for an outstanding price.
AMIGA CD32-Full-Motion-Videomodule offers 1:1 TV quality at 30 frames per
sec.
> Das Produkt AMIGA CD32 wird ab August 1993 im Commodore Fachhandel
> und über die 5 größten Versender verfügbar sein. Ausgeliefert wird
> AMIGA CD32 mit einem Game-Controller, den notwendigen
> Anschlußmöglichkeiten an den Fernseher bzw. Monitor und einem auf
> AMIGA CD32 zugeschnittenen neuen Spiel. Aus urheberrechtlichen
> Gründen kann der Titel dieses Spieles noch nicht bekanntgegeben werden.
The AMIGA CD32 product will be available in August 1993 via Commodore
dealers and via the five biggest mail order companies. It will be delievered
with a game controller, the necessary connection parts for a TV set or a
monitor and an AMIGA CD32 adequate new game. Due to copyright reasons, the
title of this game can't be announced yet.
> Parallel zur Einführung des Produktes werden 17 AMIGA CD32-Titel
> verfügbar sein. Bis Jahresende sind weitere 30 interessante
> AMIGA CD32-Titel vorgesehen und zwar aus den Segmenten Jump and Run,
> Simulation, Strategie und Action. Die entsprechenden Spiele sind ebenfalls
> über den Commodore Fachhandel verfügbar. Firmen wie Mindscape, Microprose,
> System 3, Gremlin, US Gold Flashback, US Gold, Electronic Arts, Ocean,
> Grandslam, Millennium u. a. haben entsprechende CD's angekündigt, die
> über die jeweiligen deutschen Distributoren erhältlich sind.
At the point of release, 17 AMIGA CD32 titles will be available. Till the
end of the year, further 30 interresting AMIGA CD32 titles are planned,
from the categories jump&run, simulation, strategy and action. These games
will be also available via Commodore dealers.
Companies like (see list in German text) ... have announced fitting CDs,
which will be available from their distributors.
> Der empfohlene Verkaufspreis des Produktes wird mit 699,--
> DM angegeben.
Recommended retail price is DM 699.--.
(using current money exchange rates, that's US$ 415 or 280 Pounds.)
> Technische Daten: (Specs:)
>
> CPU
> Motorola 68EC020,
> 32-Bit-Mikroprozessor, (CPU)
> 14 MHz Takt (clock frequency)
>
> Speicher (memory)
> 2 MB RAM, 32 Bit breit (32 bit wide)
> 1 MB System-ROM,
> enthält das komplette AmigaDos, ein Echtzeit-Multitasking-
> Betriebssystem
..., containing the complete AmigaDos, a realtime-multitasking-OS.
> Laufwerk (drive)
> CD-ROM mit Top-Lader, (CD-Rom with top loading)
> doppelte Geschwindigkeit (double speed)
>
> Grafik
> AA-Chipsatz mit folgenden Modi:
> - 256.000 darstellbare Farben aus einer Palette von
> 16,8 Millionen möglichen
> - Auflösungen bis 800 x 600 Punkte
> - 2 Grafik-Koprozessoren zur Grafikbeschleunigung
AGA-chipset, what else ?
> Videoausgabe (video output)
> S-Video für Fernseher (Fernsehr = TV)
> PAL, NTSC und SECAM Composite Video für Monitor
> oder Fernseher (SCART oder Video)
> PAL, NTSC und SECAM HF-Modulator-Ausgang für
> Fernseher (Antenne)
>
> Audioausgabe (audio output)
> Vierkanal-Stereosound
> Vier 8-Bit-Digital/Analog-Wandler
> 16-Bit-Audio-CD-Stereo mit 44 kHz
>
> Schnittstellen (connectors)
> Spielpult mit 11 Schaltern (wird mitgeliefert)
> 2 Spielpult-/Joystick-/Mausanschlüsse
Game pad with 11 buttons included.
2 Game Pad/Joy/Mouseconnectors
> Hochgeschwindigkeits-Aux-Anschluß für eine Tastatur,
> Datenhandschuh für Virtuelle Realitt etc.
High speed 'Aux' connector for a keyboard, virtual reality glove, etc.
> Erweiterungsanschluß AMIGA-Computer-Box
> Erweiterungsanschluß AMIGA CD32 Full-Motion-Videomodul
(Erweiterungsanschluss = expansion connector)
> Unterstützte CD-Standards (supported CD formats)
> AMIGA CD32
> Audio-CD
> CD + G (Grafik)
> CDTV
>
> Abmessungen (size)
> 212 mm tief x 311 mm breit x 81 mm hoch
>
> Gewicht (weight)
> Systemeinheit 1,44 kg
> Netzteil 1,53 kg
>
> Netzanschluß (power connector)
> Externes Blocknetzteil, 22 Watt
>
>
> Frankfurt, den 28.06.93
>
>--
> Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions
> Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ pet...@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com
Ahh, what a work.
Hope you will like this new thing and that we will see full reviews in the
magazines soon. An that it will hit the shops soon.
I think I gonna buy one.
Greetinx.
Gary
A4000/40
Always remember - there's nothing better more - than the AMIGA
Chad Freeman
Amiga-based games console. And this one looks hot, especially
considering the price (around the cost of Sega-CD or turbo-duo) and
the fact that there's really an Amiga inside there, just waiting to be
used. Unfortunately Commodore probably doesn't have the marketing
power to bring this to bear. Maybe they should've struck a deal
with, oh, say Nintendo, so Commodore could have their marketing power
behind the unit...
--
Chad Freeman mail: cjf...@pitt.edu
Neat toys I own include: Amiga 2000, Atari Lynx II, Super NES, AD&D stuff
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Life finds a way." -Jurassic Park by Michael Crichton
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
Guys, there's I fear the future of this console will be good... when
ATARI's Jaguar will be out.
If C='s console is AA or if they don't develop killer software, the
Jaguar will eat it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raist A1200/CSA '12 Gauge' 030/882 @ 50Mhz, 16 megs Fast Ram, 200 meg HD
// >>> I LOVE IT <<<<
\X/ 256,000 + colors, 24-bit palette Real 3D V2, Image FX, Scala MM210
*don't e-mail me* -> I don't have a valid address nor can I send e-mail
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> Hey Amiga Users out there !
|>
|> To stop all senseless dicussions about technical details or pricing of the
|> new 'Amiga 32 CD console' , here are pure, confirmed facts.
[CD32 specs stuff deleted]
|> >--
|> > Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions
|> > Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ pet...@cbmger.de.so.commodore.com
|>
|>
|> Ahh, what a work.
|> Hope you will like this new thing and that we will see full reviews in the
|> magazines soon. An that it will hit the shops soon.
|>
|> I think I gonna buy one.
Thanks Gary for the translation...
|>
|> Greetinx.
|> Gary
|> A4000/40
|>
|> Always remember - there's nothing better more - than the AMIGA
I got mixed feelings:
> This is the machine to compete against the SuperNintendo and
the Sega Genesis, now some things that make me worry:
1. Sound is the same Amiga sound, unless we combine it with the CD audio
2. AGA blitter and copper are still the same thing! Just watch
the HOIisAGA2 demo!
3. NO RGB PORT? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
4. Where's the expansion port, is there one?
5. Guys, almost everybody has the Scale n' Zoom stuff (S-NES).
AGA doesn't have it. Yes, the HOIisAGA2 does it, but
is 1. a demo, 2. no rotation and 3. uses CPU power.
6. No BUILT-IN MPEG? OUCH! This was the only technical advantage
that I was seeing in the machine... I wonder what that 'affordable'
price is... making it NOT STANDARD means LESS SOFTWARE using
MPEG technology... oh well....
7. GUYS, THE ATARI JAGUAR, FOR WHAT IT LOOKS SO FAR, CAN EAT THIS
MACHINE 24-BIT 16.6 MILLION TIMES. This machine is also 64-bits!
Yeah, it's a good idea to call the 'CDTV II' CD-32 for
'32 bits of power' since Sega and Nintendo claim they are '16-bit'
power technology and this makes hype. Now, C='s will be 32 and
Atari's.... 64! Holy cow!
BTW, Jaguar is scheduled for $200 (no CD-ROM) with CD-ROM around
$200. THIS FALLS IN THE CD-32 price range!
---------------------------------------------------------------
Now, things I liked:
1. CDTV compatability. This is common sense, I was afraid it would
not be, and it's a nice idea.
2. Double Speed CD-ROM -> was about time!
I have to say the following and I hope C= listens to this:
* GUYS, IF YOU FAIL AT MAKING AWESOME SOFTWARE FOR THIS MACHINE,
YOU ARE HISTORY WITH CD-32. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE UPCOMING
DEFENDER OF THE CROWN II?
A GAME LIKE THIS, WITH LOTS OF ANIMATED CARTOONISH-SCENES
AND LOTS OF STRATEGY AND COMPLEXITY WOULD SELL.
SOFTWARE SELLS MACHINES, TAKE ADVANTAGE THAT THE CD-32 IS THE
ONLY MACHINE THAT HAS INEXPENSIVE AND POWERFULL DEVELOPMENT
TOOLS!
BTW, I hope C= mentions add ons soon, perhaps I might buy this
for my sister instead of another A1200... Thinking about it...
Manjit Bedi
the rest of us? I am going to buy an Amiga 1200 in a week
(I am buying it to play games at work with a co-worker and
use Amiga applications for graphics). Will there be a
CD rom attachment for the 1200 with the double speed
features and when? If Commodore gets a CD-ROM out soon
after the CDTV2, I won't be so disappointed. But will it
happen?
I have seen some video and screen shots of games for the
3DO system. The stuff looked very impressive. Has
anyone seen the "Star Trek - The Next Generation"
video game for 3DO? I saw it on a video from the recent
CES in Chicago. The game's graphics are all 3d renderings.
I don't recall the name of the company making the game.
It is interesting to note that Pysgnosis is hard at work
making 3DO games as from what I have read.
Does anyone know?
David Meiklejohn
> > This is the machine to compete against the SuperNintendo and
> the Sega Genesis, now some things that make me worry:
> 1. Sound is the same Amiga sound, unless we combine it with the CD audio
>
> 2. AGA blitter and copper are still the same thing! Just watch
> the HOIisAGA2 demo!
We already knew it was based on the A1200. Personally, I think standard
Amiga sound is quite good enough for use in games. Remember that it has a
CD player built in, so you're hardly going to want the console to make
computer-generated music (as in mods).
> 3. NO RGB PORT? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
But it's a console, designed to be used with a TV. Does a Sega come with
an RGB port?
> 5. Guys, almost everybody has the Scale n' Zoom stuff (S-NES).
> AGA doesn't have it. Yes, the HOIisAGA2 does it, but
> is 1. a demo, 2. no rotation and 3. uses CPU power.
What it comes down to is how the games (and applications) actually look and
operate, not whether the hardware scales sprites. The CD32 has more CPU
grunt than a SNES, so it may not end up terribly different.
> 6. No BUILT-IN MPEG? OUCH! This was the only technical advantage
> that I was seeing in the machine... I wonder what that 'affordable'
> price is... making it NOT STANDARD means LESS SOFTWARE using
> MPEG technology... oh well....
The essense of marketing a CD console is to get the base cost way down,
preferably to the point where it can become an impulse purchase. MPEG would
have been cool, but the machine's not bad as it is. If it had MPEG and also
cost a lot more, I doubt they'd sell nearly as many.
> Now, things I liked:
> 1. CDTV compatability. This is common sense, I was afraid it would
> not be, and it's a nice idea.
As you go on to say, software is very important. I think this system will
do well, and it will help the Amiga market as well, simply because it is an
Amiga. That's a huge advantage, especially if Commodore release compatible
CDROMs for the AGA machines. It means, as you say, that development is
cheap and easy. It also means that some of the applications like reference
works are more likely to appear than for Sega or even 3DO, because of
the computer connection. And we'll start to see _real_ AGA games, instead
of ECS ones with some extra colours.
The feedback in both directions is what will make the CD-32 competitive,
even against the Jaguar. One thing we Amigans have learnt, is that it's
software compatibility, and not superior hardware and OSs, that sells
computers. And hopefully games consoles.
> BTW, I hope C= mentions add ons soon, perhaps I might buy this
I might buy myself one, instead of an A1200... ;-)
--
David Meiklejohn (dav...@dpi.qld.gov.au)
- PC's, Unix, and networks by day, Amigas by night... // Amiga users do it
Trust me - I work for the government! ;-) \X/ with Intuition!
Gregory G Greene
'>The feedback in both directions is what will make the CD-32 competitive,
'>even against the Jaguar. One thing we Amigans have learnt, is that it's
'>software compatibility, and not superior hardware and OSs, that sells
'>computers. And hopefully games consoles.
One thing that sells game consoles more than anything is the fact that
I can walk into Sears, Lechmere, Walmart, Software Etc, Waldensoftware, etc,
etc, and buy one. I hope CD-32 isn't something that is only going to be
available only through Amiga dealers like CDTV was. If so, its dead already.
Greg Greene
g...@kepler.unh.edu
Lasse Reinikainen
What the FUCK!!!
> AMIGA CD32 with it's 32-bit-CPU and it's 32-bit-graphics-accelerators offers
> outstanding graphics abilities. The colour-brilliance is being done by
> 256.000 colours on the screen the same time, out of a palette of 16,8 Mio.
> By this new technology, a speed and a reaction time is being achieved, which
> will make 'Playing Fun' become a real experiance.
Playing with shitty picture isn't fun!
> In Fall '93, the MPEG Video-Module for more than 70 minutes of video will be
> available as an option for an outstanding price.
Have you seen those Megadrive CD-games? Most of them are annoying DIGISHIT.
I hope that never happens to Amiga games.
> AMIGA CD32-Full-Motion-Videomodule offers 1:1 TV quality at 30 frames per
> sec.
Does that mean some lossless packing or what? Sounds much more interesting
than MPEG (but beware of DIGISHIT games).
> I think I gonna buy one.
I think I gonna forget it if there's no RGB output...
__________________ __
\_________________|)____.---'--`---.____
|| \----.________.----/
|| / / `--' la...@mits.mdata.fi
__||____/ /_
|___ \
`--------'
David Meiklejohn
I agree completely. That's what I meant when I said that it's very
important that the price be low enough that a customer can see a display
in a department store, and put it on plastic on the spot. You see, Amigas
are sold in retail stores over here, and it just seems the natural place
for CD-32. If Commodore can't get that sort of distribution in the US,
then, yes, we'll have to write it off. :-(
> Greg Greene
> g...@kepler.unh.edu
Sam Taylor
>> > I can walk into Sears, Lechmere, Walmart, Software Etc, Waldensoftware, etc,
>> > etc, and buy one. I hope CD-32 isn't something that is only going to be
>> > available only through Amiga dealers like CDTV was. If so, its dead already.
>>
>> I agree completely. That's what I meant when I said that it's very
>> important that the price be low enough that a customer can see a display
>> in a department store, and put it on plastic on the spot. You see, Amigas
>> are sold in retail stores over here, and it just seems the natural place
>> for CD-32. If Commodore can't get that sort of distribution in the US,
>> then, yes, we'll have to write it off. :-(
Yep, me too. What's more, I think Commodore need to look at getting
the machine into the rental shops as well. If it truely is a piece
of general consumer electronics then you ought to be able to hire the
thing, just like a TV or a video or a CD stereo.
The CDTV died 'cause nobody outside the Amiga community ever saw it,
or a need for it. To be a true success, and to create the new market
the Commodore keeps saying is out there, the CD-32 needs to be in
general retailers, and rental shops, and you need the disks to be
rentable from video shops, just like Sega and Nintendo games are now.
and the new Mega-CD title wills be. It's dead meat otherwise!
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| /| "I'm sinking in the quicksand of my thoughts, |
| /|| And I ain't got the power any more..." - DAVID BOWIE |
| / || |
| /--|| Sam Taylor |
| _/ _||_ tays...@mehta.anu.edu.au |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Kevin Hammel
|> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
|>
|> > > This is the machine to compete against the SuperNintendo and
|> > the Sega Genesis, now some things that make me worry:
|>
|>
|> But it's a console, designed to be used with a TV. Does a Sega come with
|> an RGB port?
|>
|> --
|> David Meiklejohn (dav...@dpi.qld.gov.au)
Actually, the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive, Super Nintendo, and even the ancient Sega
Master System all generate analog RGB as well as composite (at least the NTSC
versions). I have a couple of the above machines hooked up to my old 1080...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin D. Hammel phone: (714)693-6871
Unocal Energy Resources Division
La Palma Center, Room 2109
Anaheim, California, USA 92817-8076 E-Mail: kevin....@st.unocal.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The views expressed above are those of the author, NOT UNOCAL Corporation.
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|>
|> > > This is the machine to compete against the SuperNintendo and
|> > the Sega Genesis, now some things that make me worry:
|>
|> > 1. Sound is the same Amiga sound, unless we combine it with the CD audio
|> >
|> > 2. AGA blitter and copper are still the same thing! Just watch
|> > the HOIisAGA2 demo!
|>
|> We already knew it was based on the A1200. Personally, I think standard
|> Amiga sound is quite good enough for use in games. Remember that it has a
|> CD player built in, so you're hardly going to want the console to make
|> computer-generated music (as in mods).
Okay.
|>
|> > 3. NO RGB PORT? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
|>
|> But it's a console, designed to be used with a TV. Does a Sega come with
|> an RGB port?
Because... one of the CDTV's greatest potential advantages is
computer-capability. How do you want to convert the CD32 to a computer
when you can't connect a monitor? Is this true Peter Kittel? No way
to connect a monitor?
|>
|> > 5. Guys, almost everybody has the Scale n' Zoom stuff (S-NES).
|> > AGA doesn't have it. Yes, the HOIisAGA2 does it, but
|> > is 1. a demo, 2. no rotation and 3. uses CPU power.
|>
|> What it comes down to is how the games (and applications) actually look and
|> operate, not whether the hardware scales sprites. The CD32 has more CPU
|> grunt than a SNES, so it may not end up terribly different.
Yes, they do. Have you seen ActRaiser on the SuperNes? When your 'soul'
goes down to earth, you hear this awesome music along with a spining-map
coming in at you. I REALLY WANT TO SEE A 68020 DOING THIS AT REAL-TIME!
Okay, they may use an anim format, but what about racing games like
for example, F_zero? I mean, the potential for real-time zoom and rotation
is great, don't underestimate it.
|> > 6. No BUILT-IN MPEG? OUCH! This was the only technical advantage
|> > that I was seeing in the machine... I wonder what that 'affordable'
|> > price is... making it NOT STANDARD means LESS SOFTWARE using
|> > MPEG technology... oh well....
|>
|> The essense of marketing a CD console is to get the base cost way down,
|> preferably to the point where it can become an impulse purchase. MPEG would
|> have been cool, but the machine's not bad as it is.
|> If it had MPEG and also
|> cost a lot more, I doubt they'd sell nearly as many.
Okay, I'll buy that one... but hey! you erased reason #7!
HOW IS THIS GOING TO COMPETE AGAINST ATARI'S JAGUAR?!!!!
---------------8x CUT HERE ----------------------------
7. GUYS, THE ATARI JAGUAR, FOR WHAT IT LOOKS SO FAR, CAN EAT THIS
MACHINE 24-BIT 16.6 MILLION TIMES. This machine is also 64-bits!
Yeah, it's a good idea to call the 'CDTV II' CD-32 for
'32 bits of power' since Sega and Nintendo claim they are '16-bit'
power technology and this makes hype. Now, C='s will be 32 and
Atari's.... 64! Holy cow!
BTW, Jaguar is scheduled for $200 (no CD-ROM) with CD-ROM around
$200. THIS FALLS IN THE CD-32 price range!
---------------8x CUT HERE -------------------------------
|>
|>
|> > Now, things I liked:
|>
|> > 1. CDTV compatability. This is common sense, I was afraid it would
|> > not be, and it's a nice idea.
|>
|> As you go on to say, software is very important. I think this system will
|> do well, and it will help the Amiga market as well, simply because it is an
|> Amiga. That's a huge advantage, especially if Commodore release compatible
|> CDROMs for the AGA machines. It means, as you say, that development is
|> cheap and easy. It also means that some of the applications like reference
|> works are more likely to appear than for Sega or even 3DO, because of
|> the computer connection. And we'll start to see _real_ AGA games, instead
|> of ECS ones with some extra colours.
|>
|> The feedback in both directions is what will make the CD-32 competitive,
|> even against the Jaguar. One thing we Amigans have learnt, is that it's
|> software compatibility, and not superior hardware and OSs, that sells
|> computers. And hopefully games consoles.
|>
|> > BTW, I hope C= mentions add ons soon, perhaps I might buy this
|>
|> I might buy myself one, instead of an A1200... ;-)
|>
|>
|> --
|> David Meiklejohn (dav...@dpi.qld.gov.au)
|> - PC's, Unix, and networks by day, Amigas by night... // Amiga users do it
|> Trust me - I work for the government! ;-) \X/ with Intuition!
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raist A1200/CSA '12 Gauge' 030/882 @ 50Mhz, 16 megs Fast Ram, 200 meg HD
// >>> I LOVE IT <<<< My comments are my own, not of my employer
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> '>dav...@qdpii.ind.dpi.qld.gov.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
|> '>The feedback in both directions is what will make the CD-32 competitive,
|> '>even against the Jaguar. One thing we Amigans have learnt, is that it's
|> '>software compatibility, and not superior hardware and OSs, that sells
|> '>computers. And hopefully games consoles.
This is perhaps why so many Amiga people are so p*ssed at C=. C= before
had technological advantage without any discussion... While I go for the
software compatability stuff, I like hardware superiority, if not, I would
have bought a clone or Mac a loooooooooooooooong time ago.
Why Amiga people originally felt attracted to the Amiga? It wasn't because
of the software, it was because of the hardware/multitasking-os combo.
Don't tell me know that software only will do it, 'cause then people
will jump ship.
|>
|> One thing that sells game consoles more than anything is the fact that
|> I can walk into Sears, Lechmere, Walmart, Software Etc, Waldensoftware, etc,
|> etc, and buy one. I hope CD-32 isn't something that is only going to be
|> available only through Amiga dealers like CDTV was. If so, its dead already.
|>
|> Greg Greene
|> g...@kepler.unh.edu
True.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raist A1200/CSA '12 Gauge' 030/882 @ 50Mhz, 16 megs Fast Ram, 200 meg HD
// >>> I LOVE IT <<<< My comments are my own, not of my employer
Josh Karabin
: In article <C9KuJ...@qdpii.ind.dpi.qld.gov.au>, dav...@qdpii.ind.dpi.qld.gov.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
: |> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
: |>
: |> But it's a console, designed to be used with a TV. Does a Sega come with
: |> an RGB port?
: Because... one of the CDTV's greatest potential advantages is
: computer-capability. How do you want to convert the CD32 to a computer
: when you can't connect a monitor? Is this true Peter Kittel? No way
: to connect a monitor?
While the *rumor* says no RGB port, it doesn't mention anything about
VGA-ish and multi-sync monitors. The omission would make you think that they
do in fact exist on the *rumored* console.
--
_-_,, ,, _-_-, ,,
( // || // , _ _ || '
_|| /'\\ _-_, ||/\\ ||/\\ < \, ,._-_ < \, ||/|, \\ \\/\\
_|| || || ||_. || || ~|| < /-|| || /-|| || || || || ||
|| || || ~ || || || ||/\\ (( || || (( || || |' || || ||
-__-, \\,/ ,-_- \\ |/ _-__,\\, \/\\ \\, \/\\ \\/ \\ \\ \\
_/
Ralph Barbagallo
Did Peter Kittel mention anything about CDROMS for the A4000/1200
being compatible with this new machine? Commodore finally has done it.
The perfect game machine. Sure 3DO and the Jaguar are better...but 3D0 is
expensive..and the Jag...er..uummm..actually, the Jag may present some
real competition since it's being distributed and manufactured by IBM.
Hmm..well the price is right... I hope in the US they can release it for
$350..it should be possible. It will STOMP ALL OVER the Genesis CD and
the super CHEESY Duo. Go Commodore!!!! Promote it this time!!!
--
Ralph A.Barbagallo III_Only AMIGA Makes it Possible!_nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us
[ Amiga 4000/030, Amiga 500, Commodore 64, Atari 800XL, Atari 2600, 7800, ]
[ Lynx, Sega Master System, Genesis, Game Gear, NES, SNES, Game Boy, NEO GEO]
[ TurboGrafx-16/CDROM, Odyssey 500, ColecoVision.. BOB LOVES YOU!!!!!! ]
Ralph Barbagallo
:
: I got mixed feelings:
:
: > This is the machine to compete against the SuperNintendo and
: the Sega Genesis, now some things that make me worry:
:
: 1. Sound is the same Amiga sound, unless we combine it with the CD audio
Duh! So what? 4 voice digital audio is adequate. They can use
the voices for game sounds and overlay the digital CD tracks for the music.
That's how all the current CD systems do it (except CD-I..CD-I has no internal
sound generators!!!). The Genesis has TOTALLY inferior 11 voice FM synth
crap..and the Turbo DUO has 6 voices of PCM CRAP! So, 4 voices of digital
devoted to ALL speech and sound effects will really stomp all over the Turbo
CD/DUO and SEGA CD sound...
:
: 2. AGA blitter and copper are still the same thing! Just watch
: the HOIisAGA2 demo!
Where can I get this demo? But anyway, so what... with the added
colors on the AGA chipset..it will be even more impressive.
:
: 3. NO RGB PORT? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
Oh big deal..it may be possible to bring out a converter later on,
and most game players aren't concerned with RGB.
:
: 4. Where's the expansion port, is there one?
I assume the computer pack will contain some expansion (that's how
they'll get the 2mb in there).
:
: 5. Guys, almost everybody has the Scale n' Zoom stuff (S-NES).
: AGA doesn't have it. Yes, the HOIisAGA2 does it, but
: is 1. a demo, 2. no rotation and 3. uses CPU power.
Sure, but the SNES can only scale and zoom the background. The
Genesis can do it to sprites though, which may present a problem. But,
the 32 bit processor will help out tremendously with scaling. I have seen
sprite scaling on ECS Amigas.. (Chuck Rock II, and the carrier scene on
G-LOC come to mind) Even the Turbo DUO has some background rotation and
scaling abilities. Look at the screens on the combo disc..they spin
and scale..and that's all on a cheesy custom NEC 8 bit chip running at
7mhz.
:
: 6. No BUILT-IN MPEG? OUCH! This was the only technical advantage
: that I was seeing in the machine... I wonder what that 'affordable'
: price is... making it NOT STANDARD means LESS SOFTWARE using
: MPEG technology... oh well....
Well, I'm assuming that MPEG will be used for feature length movies,
mostly. But intros and intermissions will be great with MPEG-1. It just
wasn't cost effective. No other system has decent FMV anyway. Look at
the SEGA CD...the FMV is crap!
:
:
: 7. GUYS, THE ATARI JAGUAR, FOR WHAT IT LOOKS SO FAR, CAN EAT THIS
: MACHINE 24-BIT 16.6 MILLION TIMES. This machine is also 64-bits!
Yeah, that's the problem. And it's being distributed by IBM.
Grrrr.... well anyway, the Jaguar (as I am led to believe) doesn't come
with a CDROM. They claim to be putting out MegaCarts with Battlezone 2000
and Tempest 2000 which leads me to belive the CD will be extra. THAT'S why
it only costs $200...and there has to be some sort of sham about the processor.
:
: Yeah, it's a good idea to call the 'CDTV II' CD-32 for
: '32 bits of power' since Sega and Nintendo claim they are '16-bit'
: power technology and this makes hype. Now, C='s will be 32 and
: Atari's.... 64! Holy cow!
Yeah... hopefully we'll see a lot of comparison commercials and
some sort of Sonic beater and killer fighting game right out of the box.
Stomp all over Sonic, and try and compete with SFII. Maybe get U.S. Gold
(ick!) to make an AGA CD version of Hyper Fighting.
:
: BTW, Jaguar is scheduled for $200 (no CD-ROM) with CD-ROM around
: $200. THIS FALLS IN THE CD-32 price range!
Yeah, but that's the converted U.S. price. I bet they'll get it in
at under $399 in the U.S. when it first hits these shores.
: ---------------------------------------------------------------
:
: Now, things I liked:
:
: 1. CDTV compatability. This is common sense, I was afraid it would
: not be, and it's a nice idea.
Yeah, that way we have access to plenty of cut-rate reference tools
and shovelware! :)
:
: 2. Double Speed CD-ROM -> was about time!
BIG advantage over the crummy SEGA CD which has trouble keeping up
with 8 frames per second on games like Cobra Command...due to the poor
access time.
:
:
: I have to say the following and I hope C= listens to this:
:
:
: * GUYS, IF YOU FAIL AT MAKING AWESOME SOFTWARE FOR THIS MACHINE,
: YOU ARE HISTORY WITH CD-32. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE UPCOMING
: DEFENDER OF THE CROWN II?
Yep! I say right out of the box...bring out Zool 2 AGA...
some fighting game.. DOC II, some 3-D game or something (Odyssey??),
and maybe an RPG just to appeal to everyone.
:
: A GAME LIKE THIS, WITH LOTS OF ANIMATED CARTOONISH-SCENES
: AND LOTS OF STRATEGY AND COMPLEXITY WOULD SELL.
Definitley! They need to make impressive LOOKING software. Forget
about playability on the first few titles. Just make them all singing-all
dancing. That way people will be wowed by the graphics and sound and
maybe overlook the playability.
:
: SOFTWARE SELLS MACHINES, TAKE ADVANTAGE THAT THE CD-32 IS THE
: ONLY MACHINE THAT HAS INEXPENSIVE AND POWERFULL DEVELOPMENT
: TOOLS!
Yeah, entice SEGA CD developers to the CD32 because their 68000
coders can grapple the 68020 very easily.
:
:
: BTW, I hope C= mentions add ons soon, perhaps I might buy this
: for my sister instead of another A1200... Thinking about it...
--
m h kift
>In article <C9KuJ...@qdpii.ind.dpi.qld.gov.au>, dav...@qdpii.ind.dpi.qld.gov.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
>|> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
>|>
>|> > > This is the machine to compete against the SuperNintendo and
>|> > the Sega Genesis, now some things that make me worry:
>|>
>|> > 3. NO RGB PORT? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
>|>
>|> But it's a console, designed to be used with a TV. Does a Sega come with
>|> an RGB port?
>|>
>...
>|> --
>|> David Meiklejohn (dav...@dpi.qld.gov.au)
>
>Actually, the Sega Genesis/Mega Drive, Super Nintendo, and even the ancient Sega
>Master System all generate analog RGB as well as composite (at least the NTSC
>versions). I have a couple of the above machines hooked up to my old 1080...
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I currently have my Super Famicom/NES hooked up to my Phillips 8833 monitor
using RGB via a SCART plug. This plug comes from the inside of the machine,
which was carried out by the importer. The importer told me that it is a
5 minute job at most, and in fact, charged nothing for it.
Fantastic picture, and makes the composite output I have seen on British
machines (mine is Japenese) look absolutely shite.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Amiga A1200/80M hard disk. So much power for so few bucks. I like it.
Martin Kift. Email - cek...@uk.ac.swan.pyr
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Brendan Langoulant
>Ricardo Hernandez Muchado (ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com) wrote:
> Yep! I say right out of the box...bring out Zool 2 AGA...
>some fighting game.. DOC II, some 3-D game or something (Odyssey??),
>and maybe an RPG just to appeal to everyone.
>: A GAME LIKE THIS, WITH LOTS OF ANIMATED CARTOONISH-SCENES
>: AND LOTS OF STRATEGY AND COMPLEXITY WOULD SELL.
> Definitley! They need to make impressive LOOKING software. Forget
>about playability on the first few titles. Just make them all singing-all
Please dont say that... There are already enough Amiga games with
playabilty = 0.
>dancing. That way people will be wowed by the graphics and sound and
>maybe overlook the playability.
Playability is so important... Sure make the graphics great... but a little
extra effort on playability makes for a lasting game..
--
Brendan Langoulant
bre...@gu.uwa.edu.au
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|>
|> Did Peter Kittel mention anything about CDROMS for the A4000/1200
|> being compatible with this new machine? Commodore finally has done it.
|> The perfect game machine. Sure 3DO and the Jaguar are better...but 3D0 is
|> expensive..and the Jag...er..uummm..actually, the Jag may present some
|> real competition since it's being distributed and manufactured by IBM.
Wich is why the Jaguar scares me... I thought it was vaporware, until
I read some news here.... IBM will distribute it! It will be virtually
everywhere! HEY! Why doesn't C= make the same deal with IBM? They sure
can!
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> Ricardo Hernandez Muchado (ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com) wrote:
|>
|> :
|> : I got mixed feelings:
|> :
|> : > This is the machine to compete against the SuperNintendo and
|> : the Sega Genesis, now some things that make me worry:
|> :
|> : 1. Sound is the same Amiga sound, unless we combine it with the CD audio
|>
|> Duh! So what? 4 voice digital audio is adequate.
Don't say Duh! Hear a Super Nes Game like SuperStarwars and then let
me know if you'll say 'Duh!'. Having 8-voice means that you can fire
(like in Turrican) at the same time the enemy fires at you and you don't lose
any music instruments at all.
|> They can use
|> the voices for game sounds and overlay the digital CD tracks for the music.
True, I guess my main concern is if the unit could be fast enough to re-read
music (repetitive arcade background game music) again and again.
|> That's how all the current CD systems do it (except CD-I..CD-I has no internal
|> sound generators!!!). The Genesis has TOTALLY inferior 11 voice FM synth
|> crap..and the Turbo DUO has 6 voices of PCM CRAP! So, 4 voices of digital
|> devoted to ALL speech and sound effects will really stomp all over the Turbo
|> CD/DUO and SEGA CD sound...
I see that you didn't mention the SuperNes... The Super Nes has 8 voice
8-bit stereo sound with a DSP...
|>
|> :
|> : 2. AGA blitter and copper are still the same thing! Just watch
|> : the HOIisAGA2 demo!
|>
|> Where can I get this demo? But anyway, so what... with the added
|> colors on the AGA chipset..it will be even more impressive.
That's true, but the point is that the blitter is the same old buddy, perhaps
faster 'cause less bus contention, but with added bit-planes it has more work
to do... not very nice I would say...
|>
|> :
|> : 3. NO RGB PORT? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
|>
|> Oh big deal..it may be possible to bring out a converter later on,
|> and most game players aren't concerned with RGB.
Okay, if there's a way to do it, I am happy. My main concern was about
the 'no way-you could do it.'
|>
|> :
|> : 4. Where's the expansion port, is there one?
|>
|> I assume the computer pack will contain some expansion (that's how
|> they'll get the 2mb in there).
OK, but I would like an A1200 'local bus' too.
|>
|> :
|> : 5. Guys, almost everybody has the Scale n' Zoom stuff (S-NES).
|> : AGA doesn't have it. Yes, the HOIisAGA2 does it, but
|> : is 1. a demo, 2. no rotation and 3. uses CPU power.
|>
|> Sure, but the SNES can only scale and zoom the background.
'Can only?' And you think this isn't good enough? BTW, with the
SuperFX chip, the SNES can do it on individual sprites (not polygon-stuff,
scale)
|> The
|> Genesis can do it to sprites though,
How? I didn't know it could, I thought it couldn't.
|> which may present a problem. But,
|> the 32 bit processor will help out tremendously with scaling.
Scaling a whole background *and* rotate it? Dream on....
|> I have seen
|> sprite scaling on ECS Amigas.. (Chuck Rock II, and the carrier scene on
|> G-LOC come to mind)
Perhaps what they do is they have all the images stored in memory.
Okay, scaling sprites *might* be doable, still takes a lot of CPU time...
|> Even the Turbo DUO has some background rotation and
|> scaling abilities. Look at the screens on the combo disc..they spin
|> and scale..and that's all on a cheesy custom NEC 8 bit chip running at
|> 7mhz.
I'll like to see that...
|>
|> :
|> : 6. No BUILT-IN MPEG? OUCH! This was the only technical advantage
|> : that I was seeing in the machine... I wonder what that 'affordable'
|> : price is... making it NOT STANDARD means LESS SOFTWARE using
|> : MPEG technology... oh well....
|>
|> Well, I'm assuming that MPEG will be used for feature length movies,
|> mostly. But intros and intermissions will be great with MPEG-1. It just
|> wasn't cost effective. No other system has decent FMV anyway. Look at
|> the SEGA CD...the FMV is crap!
Yep, I know, but we want to innovate, right?
|>
|> :
|> :
|> : 7. GUYS, THE ATARI JAGUAR, FOR WHAT IT LOOKS SO FAR, CAN EAT THIS
|> : MACHINE 24-BIT 16.6 MILLION TIMES. This machine is also 64-bits!
|>
|> Yeah, that's the problem. And it's being distributed by IBM.
|> Grrrr.... well anyway, the Jaguar (as I am led to believe) doesn't come
|> with a CDROM. They claim to be putting out MegaCarts with Battlezone 2000
|> and Tempest 2000 which leads me to belive the CD will be extra. THAT'S why
|> it only costs $200...and there has to be some sort of sham about the processor.
Yep, I am also looking to check out the limits of the CPU, particularly
the MHz that they run at and if their '64-bits' is like Intel's Pentium (TM),
where its data bus is not true '64-bits'...
Yes, Jaguar's CD-ROM will be extra, but they are looking for a price of
$200... $400 for a Jaguar with CD-ROM, yes, it's too early to tell, but....
|>
|> :
|> : Yeah, it's a good idea to call the 'CDTV II' CD-32 for
|> : '32 bits of power' since Sega and Nintendo claim they are '16-bit'
|> : power technology and this makes hype. Now, C='s will be 32 and
|> : Atari's.... 64! Holy cow!
|>
|> Yeah... hopefully we'll see a lot of comparison commercials and
|> some sort of Sonic beater and killer fighting game right out of the box.
|> Stomp all over Sonic, and try and compete with SFII. Maybe get U.S. Gold
|> (ick!) to make an AGA CD version of Hyper Fighting.
NOW THIS WOULD BE AN AWESOME IDEA. I'LL LIKE TO SEE A HYPER-FIGHTING
EDITION, WITH *TONS* OF OPTIONS AND MOVIE-LIKE CDXL ANIMS FOR ENDINGS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THIS WOULD SELL <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
IN FACT, I'LL BUY ONE RIGHT AWAY!
I mean, if they do AN EXCELLENT, Nearly IDENTICAL ARCADE translation
of the Hyper-fighting edition with options to play any edition you want (original,
champion, etc.) THIS WOULD SELL! People will just buy it just to have that.
BUT IT HAS TO BE NEARLY IDENTICAL AND GOOD.
But btw, I hear that the hyper-fighting edition will come out for the
Super-NES before christmas (1993).
|>
|> :
|> : BTW, Jaguar is scheduled for $200 (no CD-ROM) with CD-ROM around
|> : $200. THIS FALLS IN THE CD-32 price range!
|>
|> Yeah, but that's the converted U.S. price. I bet they'll get it in
|> at under $399 in the U.S. when it first hits these shores.
|>
|> : ---------------------------------------------------------------
|> :
|> : Now, things I liked:
|> :
|> : 1. CDTV compatability. This is common sense, I was afraid it would
|> : not be, and it's a nice idea.
|>
|> Yeah, that way we have access to plenty of cut-rate reference tools
|> and shovelware! :)
:-)
|>
|> :
|> : 2. Double Speed CD-ROM -> was about time!
|>
|> BIG advantage over the crummy SEGA CD which has trouble keeping up
|> with 8 frames per second on games like Cobra Command...due to the poor
|> access time.
Yep, Sega CD is sh*t.
|>
|> :
|> :
|> : I have to say the following and I hope C= listens to this:
|> :
|> :
|> : * GUYS, IF YOU FAIL AT MAKING AWESOME SOFTWARE FOR THIS MACHINE,
|> : YOU ARE HISTORY WITH CD-32. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE UPCOMING
|> : DEFENDER OF THE CROWN II?
|>
|>
|> Yep! I say right out of the box...bring out Zool 2 AGA...
|> some fighting game.. DOC II, some 3-D game or something (Odyssey??),
|> and maybe an RPG just to appeal to everyone.
|>
|> :
|> : A GAME LIKE THIS, WITH LOTS OF ANIMATED CARTOONISH-SCENES
|> : AND LOTS OF STRATEGY AND COMPLEXITY WOULD SELL.
|>
|> Definitley! They need to make impressive LOOKING software. Forget
|> about playability on the first few titles. Just make them all singing-all
|> dancing. That way people will be wowed by the graphics and sound and
|> maybe overlook the playability.
Hmmmm.... actually, they have to go with both. At least with the title
that comes with the unit.. why? It would be like something you crave for,
something you want, something everybody want, something everybody will buy.
|>
|> :
|> : SOFTWARE SELLS MACHINES, TAKE ADVANTAGE THAT THE CD-32 IS THE
|> : ONLY MACHINE THAT HAS INEXPENSIVE AND POWERFULL DEVELOPMENT
|> : TOOLS!
|>
|> Yeah, entice SEGA CD developers to the CD32 because their 68000
|> coders can grapple the 68020 very easily.
Yep.
[stuff deleted]
|>
|> --
|> Ralph A.Barbagallo III_Only AMIGA Makes it Possible!_nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us
|> [ Amiga 4000/030, Amiga 500, Commodore 64, Atari 800XL, Atari 2600, 7800, ]
|> [ Lynx, Sega Master System, Genesis, Game Gear, NES, SNES, Game Boy, NEO GEO]
|> [ TurboGrafx-16/CDROM, Odyssey 500, ColecoVision.. BOB LOVES YOU!!!!!! ]
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raist A1200/CSA '12 Gauge' 030/882 @ 50Mhz, 16 megs Fast Ram, 200 meg HD
// >>> I LOVE IT <<<< My comments are my own, not of my employer
David Stuve
>|> expensive..and the Jag...er..uummm..actually, the Jag may present some
>|> real competition since it's being distributed and manufactured by IBM.
Atari is farming out manufacturing to a 3rd party (in this case IBM,)
but I've heard nothing about IBM getting into distribution/promotion.
It's not the sort of thing they'd be interested in, methinks.
-David
--
========================================================================
David Stuve | InterNet: dst...@storm.cs.orst.edu
Software Engineer |
MindWorks -- Advanced Amiga Software | Crescat Scientia Vita Excolatur
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> >In article <C9s19...@genesis.nred.ma.us>, nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
|> >|> expensive..and the Jag...er..uummm..actually, the Jag may present some
|> >|> real competition since it's being distributed and manufactured by IBM.
|>
|> Atari is farming out manufacturing to a 3rd party (in this case IBM,)
|> but I've heard nothing about IBM getting into distribution/promotion.
|> It's not the sort of thing they'd be interested in, methinks.
No David, IBM is going to distribute it too!
This are the stuff IBM will do for ATARI:
1. Manufacture it
2. Quality-assure it
3. Ship it and distribute it.
Now, this is a *lot*, isn't it?
Besides that, all the other work is ATARI's and THIS IS NOT an IBM/ATARI
'joint venture'. ATARI is just an IBM customer.
|>
|> -David
|>
|>
|> --
|> ========================================================================
|> David Stuve | InterNet: dst...@storm.cs.orst.edu
|> Software Engineer |
|> MindWorks -- Advanced Amiga Software | Crescat Scientia Vita Excolatur
--
Charles E Rick Taylor IV
>|> Ricardo Hernandez Muchado (ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com) wrote:
>|>
>|> :
>|> : I got mixed feelings:
>|> :
>|> : > This is the machine to compete against the SuperNintendo and
>|> : the Sega Genesis, now some things that make me worry:
>|> :
>|> : 1. Sound is the same Amiga sound, unless we combine it with the CD audio
>|>
>|> Duh! So what? 4 voice digital audio is adequate.
> Don't say Duh! Hear a Super Nes Game like SuperStarwars and then let
>me know if you'll say 'Duh!'. Having 8-voice means that you can fire
>(like in Turrican) at the same time the enemy fires at you and you don't lose
>any music instruments at all.
Even Sega Genesis's and TG-16's 6 voices can put you in the game more
than the Amiga's 4 if they're done right. Yes, they are inferior
quality to the Amiga's voices - but there are more of them. Maybe
they'll do with the new CDTV what they're doing to games like Ecco the
Dolphin on SegaCD - which I'm told has *very* good sound effects.
>|> That's how all the current CD systems do it (except CD-I..CD-I has no internal
>|> sound generators!!!). The Genesis has TOTALLY inferior 11 voice FM synth
>|> crap..and the Turbo DUO has 6 voices of PCM CRAP! So, 4 voices of digital
>|> devoted to ALL speech and sound effects will really stomp all over the Turbo
>|> CD/DUO and SEGA CD sound...
> I see that you didn't mention the SuperNes... The Super Nes has 8 voice
>8-bit stereo sound with a DSP...
Well, the SuperNES doesn't have a CD console yet (if ever :) ), so
you're not really competing with SuperNES anyhow.
> Yes, Jaguar's CD-ROM will be extra, but they are looking for a price of
>$200... $400 for a Jaguar with CD-ROM, yes, it's too early to tell, but....
Is CDTV going to list for under $400? I don't think so. It'll be
proced right out of the console market anyway. Remember, Turbo-Duo is
$300 and Sega CD is $250+$90 and falling rapidly.
>|> :
>|> : Yeah, it's a good idea to call the 'CDTV II' CD-32 for
>|> : '32 bits of power' since Sega and Nintendo claim they are '16-bit'
>|> : power technology and this makes hype. Now, C='s will be 32 and
>|> : Atari's.... 64! Holy cow!
>|>
>|> Yeah... hopefully we'll see a lot of comparison commercials and
>|> some sort of Sonic beater and killer fighting game right out of the box.
>|> Stomp all over Sonic, and try and compete with SFII. Maybe get U.S. Gold
>|> (ick!) to make an AGA CD version of Hyper Fighting.
> NOW THIS WOULD BE AN AWESOME IDEA. I'LL LIKE TO SEE A HYPER-FIGHTING
>EDITION, WITH *TONS* OF OPTIONS AND MOVIE-LIKE CDXL ANIMS FOR ENDINGS.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THIS WOULD SELL <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
We would like to remind our readership of just what company we are
talking about. Commodore. Comparison commercials? Remember C='s
attempts to sell 500's over MTV? Sega's ad-men would eat 'em alive! :)
I don't think CDTV-II's gonna be aimed at the console market, per se.
Consoles are low-price "Mommy, buy me that" items. The CDTV-II will
be priced more in the range of the CD-I and the 3DO (whenever it's
going to be released).
> IN FACT, I'LL BUY ONE RIGHT AWAY!
> I mean, if they do AN EXCELLENT, Nearly IDENTICAL ARCADE translation
>of the Hyper-fighting edition with options to play any edition you want (original,
>champion, etc.) THIS WOULD SELL! People will just buy it just to have that.
> BUT IT HAS TO BE NEARLY IDENTICAL AND GOOD.
Depends on the price. Basically, IF PRICE >= 700 THEN GOTO NOSALE. :)
> But btw, I hear that the hyper-fighting edition will come out for the
>Super-NES before christmas (1993).
>|> :
>|> : BTW, Jaguar is scheduled for $200 (no CD-ROM) with CD-ROM around
>|> : $200. THIS FALLS IN THE CD-32 price range!
>|>
>|> Yeah, but that's the converted U.S. price. I bet they'll get it in
>|> at under $399 in the U.S. when it first hits these shores.
What exactly *is* the CD-32 price range?
>|> : 2. Double Speed CD-ROM -> was about time!
>|>
>|> BIG advantage over the crummy SEGA CD which has trouble keeping up
>|> with 8 frames per second on games like Cobra Command...due to the poor
>|> access time.
> Yep, Sega CD is sh*t.
But it's been out for quite some time ... one wonders if Sega's going
to release a new CD-unit anytime soon (maybe that's the reason for
the price drop on the Sega CD). IMHO, that thing was never designed
for full-motion video. Kinda like playing Dragon's Lair on the Amiga. :)
>|> : I have to say the following and I hope C= listens to this:
>|> :
>|> :
>|> : * GUYS, IF YOU FAIL AT MAKING AWESOME SOFTWARE FOR THIS MACHINE,
>|> : YOU ARE HISTORY WITH CD-32. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE UPCOMING
>|> : DEFENDER OF THE CROWN II?
>|>
>|>
>|> Yep! I say right out of the box...bring out Zool 2 AGA...
>|> some fighting game.. DOC II, some 3-D game or something (Odyssey??),
>|> and maybe an RPG just to appeal to everyone.
>|>
>|> :
>|> : A GAME LIKE THIS, WITH LOTS OF ANIMATED CARTOONISH-SCENES
>|> : AND LOTS OF STRATEGY AND COMPLEXITY WOULD SELL.
>|>
>|> Definitley! They need to make impressive LOOKING software. Forget
>|> about playability on the first few titles. Just make them all singing-all
>|> dancing. That way people will be wowed by the graphics and sound and
>|> maybe overlook the playability.
> Hmmmm.... actually, they have to go with both. At least with the title
>that comes with the unit.. why? It would be like something you crave for,
>something you want, something everybody want, something everybody will buy.
Overlook playability and, young Skywalker, you will die. Maybe one of
the reasons that Sega sold so much is that they packaged Sonic with
the system - it not only looks pretty good, but also it's very
playable. Nintendo has Super Mario Brothers - also very playable, but
not quite as good-looking as Sonic. (Nintendo = 8-bit and SNES)
(As an aside, TG-16 had "Keith Courage", which looked OK but suffered
from lack of playability - and look where it went...)
>|> :
>|> : SOFTWARE SELLS MACHINES, TAKE ADVANTAGE THAT THE CD-32 IS THE
>|> : ONLY MACHINE THAT HAS INEXPENSIVE AND POWERFULL DEVELOPMENT
>|> : TOOLS!
>|>
>|> Yeah, entice SEGA CD developers to the CD32 because their 68000
>|> coders can grapple the 68020 very easily.
> Yep.
Only problem is that C= lacks the marketing ability to drive marketers
from Sega over to the C=. Witness CDTV (the original), the A500, and
quite possibly the A1200. Nintendo and Sega are in Toys R Us,
Wal-mart, Sears, etc. Where is C=? Only at "Authorized Dealers" and
mail-order. If CDTV-II is going to survive, C='s going to have to
change their marketing style. Bite the bullet and get the machines
out to where people will see them and stop making people go looking
for them!
--
+ Rick __ + MAIL:cha...@hubcap.clemson.edu + //\ TG16,SEGA + Sonic is +
| /aylor | cha...@eng.clemson.edu | \X/--\miga 500 | my roll |
+-------------+---------------------------------+-----------------+ model... |
+ "Every Girl Already Has A Boyfriend" --- Murphy's Law Of Dating +----------+
David Stuve
>In article <21f6fo...@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU>, dst...@storm.cs.orst.edu (David Stuve) writes:
>|> >In article <C9s19...@genesis.nred.ma.us>, nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
> This are the stuff IBM will do for ATARI:
>
> 1. Manufacture it
> 2. Quality-assure it
> 3. Ship it and distribute it.
>
Atari wants them shipped. My definition of distribution was marketing
representatives, promotions, signing up dealers, sending out catalogues
so that people can order them from IBM, etc.
A picture of my definition of distribution goes like this:
jaguars go this way
Atari -> IBM -> dealers -> customers
and money goes this way
customers -> dealers-> IBM -> Atari
I think we just have differing definitions of what "distributing"
machines means.
Donald R Lloyd
>I read some news here.... IBM will distribute it! It will be virtually
>everywhere! HEY! Why doesn't C= make the same deal with IBM? They sure
>can!
>
Nowhere does it say that IBM is selling, distributing, marketing, or in any
way doing anything related to the Jaguar except getting paid 500 million
(assuming Atari can sell enough units to raise that kind of cash) to
_manufacture_ _the_ _units_. Jaguar is in no way an IBM product or subject to
any assistance from IBM. Atari is essentially renting factory space and
workers. It's still up to Atari to sell the machine, and it's still up to
Atari to get to a state where it's ready to manufacture.
Don't let the press releases fool you.
>
>
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Gerald G. Washington
>8-bit stereo sound with a DSP...
Is this true? I'm borrowing by brother's SNES now while he's out of town,
just to play Street Fighter II. :-) The SNES doesn't sound nearly as good
as my old A500. Are they not using the 8 voices or the DSP?
-- Gerald
Thomas Strauss
At least in Germany it is sold by the big MailOrder Companies, which sell
all kinds of stuff (cloth, TV, Toys, ...)
So don't Panic!
CU
Thomas
-- .:
Thomas Strauss| You can reach me via: | .:::
Josefstr.64 | Internet : th...@coli-gate.coli.uni-sb.de | .;' ::
6637 Nalbach | UseNet : th...@outsite.saar.de | .;' ::
06838/85218 | Z-Netz : t...@outworld.zer | .:::::::::
06838/84739 <-@-local BBS : SYSOP | .::. .::.
Gregory R Block
: Okay, I'll buy that one... but hey! you erased reason #7!
: HOW IS THIS GOING TO COMPETE AGAINST ATARI'S JAGUAR?!!!!
: 7. GUYS, THE ATARI JAGUAR, FOR WHAT IT LOOKS SO FAR, CAN EAT THIS
: MACHINE 24-BIT 16.6 MILLION TIMES. This machine is also 64-bits!
This is kind of a silly, stupid question, so I'll answer it
semi-rhetorically...
How many remember how technically advanced the Sega Master System was, in
comparison to the old Nintendo Entertainment System?
How on earth did the Sega system fail when it was so much better than
Nintendo's offering?
Don't answer. But this should make it clear that technical merit doesn't
necessarily mean a damn thing. Hell, look at the NEO-GEO. :)
Greg
--
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(: LEMMINGS: Like their computer counterpart, "lemmings" are a group :)
(: of people who begin their existence on Amigas, and migrate. :)
(: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) Wubba :)
Ralph Barbagallo
: > In Fall '93, the MPEG Video-Module for more than 70 minutes of video will be
:
: Have you seen those Megadrive CD-games? Most of them are annoying DIGISHIT.
: I hope that never happens to Amiga games.
Yeah but MPEG-1 is laserdisc quality. SEGA CD FMV is cheesy 16
color crap (or is it 64?). Since you can only get what 120k per second out
of a SegaCD you have to really cut down on the colors for FMV to squeeze
as many frames as you can out of the system.. (hence Road Blaster FX and
Thunderstorm FX's 16 color 8 frames per second CRAP!)
William Bardwell
(maybe VHS SLP...)
William Bardwell
wbardwel+@[cs.]cmu.edu
Brett Bourbin
|>
|> > 3. NO RGB PORT? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
|>
|> But it's a console, designed to be used with a TV. Does a Sega come with
|> an RGB port?
Yes, it does.
|> > 5. Guys, almost everybody has the Scale n' Zoom stuff (S-NES).
|> > AGA doesn't have it. Yes, the HOIisAGA2 does it, but
|> > is 1. a demo, 2. no rotation and 3. uses CPU power.
|>
|> What it comes down to is how the games (and applications) actually look and
|> operate, not whether the hardware scales sprites. The CD32 has more CPU
|> grunt than a SNES, so it may not end up terribly different.
To give you a little background from the SEGA (where my experience is) you can
have 80 sprites on the screen at a time (each from 8x8 to 32x32), the Amiga
can 8. The SEGA sprites can have 16 colors in them, on the Amiga to do this,
you drop your sprite count to 4.
So on the Amiga, you must do software sprites with the Blitter, which do not
come close to hardware sprites of the SEGA/SNES. Plus the SEGA CD/SNES add
hardware to do scaling, which handle the task MUCH better than a 680EC20.
|> > 1. CDTV compatability. This is common sense, I was afraid it would
|> > not be, and it's a nice idea.
|>
|> As you go on to say, software is very important. I think this system will
|> do well, and it will help the Amiga market as well, simply because it is an
|> Amiga. That's a huge advantage, especially if Commodore release compatible
|> CDROMs for the AGA machines. It means, as you say, that development is
|> cheap and easy. It also means that some of the applications like reference
|> works are more likely to appear than for Sega or even 3DO, because of
|> the computer connection. And we'll start to see _real_ AGA games, instead
|> of ECS ones with some extra colours.
Let's face it, machines do nothing, it is all the software that runs on them.
Being a Amiga also means it has the drawbacks of an Amiga. With WB3.x installed
you have memory that you can not use during your game. I really do not want
to get into this argument again, but WB3.x has A LOT more than what is needed
in a game for CD32 -- this is not a plus.
As for development, people who do SEGA work have nice development systems and
tools (I do development on a 486 under NT and a Amiga 3000), it is just not a
open system like the Amiga is.
As for seeing real AGA games, you will.
-- _ _ _ _
Brett Bourbin (_ |_ | /__ | |(_ 4431 Lehigh Road, Suite 151
br...@netcom.com __)|_ |_\_/ \_/__) College Park, Maryland 20740
BIX: bbourbin LIMITED 703.758.2733
Ralph Barbagallo
: >|> : I got mixed feelings:
: >|> :
: >|> : > This is the machine to compete against the SuperNintendo and
: >|> : the Sega Genesis, now some things that make me worry:
: >|> :
: >|> : 1. Sound is the same Amiga sound, unless we combine it with the CD audio
: >|>
: >|> Duh! So what? 4 voice digital audio is adequate.
:
: > Don't say Duh! Hear a Super Nes Game like SuperStarwars and then let
: >me know if you'll say 'Duh!'. Having 8-voice means that you can fire
: >(like in Turrican) at the same time the enemy fires at you and you don't lose
: >any music instruments at all.
I have heard a SNES... Actraizer is much more impressive. (check
my .sig)
:
: Even Sega Genesis's and TG-16's 6 voices can put you in the game more
: than the Amiga's 4 if they're done right. Yes, they are inferior
: quality to the Amiga's voices - but there are more of them. Maybe
: they'll do with the new CDTV what they're doing to games like Ecco the
: Dolphin on SegaCD - which I'm told has *very* good sound effects.
Nonononon..listen. What I meant was that since the CDROM will
be used for the music, you don't need to share the 4 voices of sound with
the music too. So you can have 4 channels of digital sound mixed with
CD background music. That will work fine. That's how the TurboCD does it.
I have a TurboCD and in games like Valis III etc. they make all the in
game sound effects such as jumping, shooting, explosions, etc. through the
6 channels of PCM and the music is played off the CD. The one problem with
CD music is you can't change it quickly (but then again, since the CD32
is double speed...well..maybe that's a thing of the past) or alter the music
since it's pre-recorded. That's why they did SFII:TCE on Turbochip rather
than CD because in order to make the music speed up at the end of a round
or when the players are low on energy they had to generate it through the
hardware sound channels so they could alter it on demand. A pre recorded
track would not be able to do that.
Anyway... like I said..since you wouldn't have to share the 4 voices
with music, the 4 voices are adequate. And if you REALLY want to stretch
it you can get 8 voices with a loss of clarity.. (look at OctaMED) which
might go well with a game where all the sounds you need are jumping, explosions,
etc.
: >|> That's how all the current CD systems do it (except CD-I..CD-I has no internal
: >|> sound generators!!!). The Genesis has TOTALLY inferior 11 voice FM synth
: >|> crap..and the Turbo DUO has 6 voices of PCM CRAP! So, 4 voices of digital
: >|> devoted to ALL speech and sound effects will really stomp all over the Turbo
: >|> CD/DUO and SEGA CD sound...
:
: > I see that you didn't mention the SuperNes... The Super Nes has 8 voice
: >8-bit stereo sound with a DSP...
You don't need the DSP to get the 8 voices... (if that's what you
meant). The NEO GEO has 15 voices of sound with 7 digital and 8 FM synth...
works VERY well.
: Well, the SuperNES doesn't have a CD console yet (if ever :) ), so
: you're not really competing with SuperNES anyhow.
:
: > Yes, Jaguar's CD-ROM will be extra, but they are looking for a price of
: >$200... $400 for a Jaguar with CD-ROM, yes, it's too early to tell, but....
:
: Is CDTV going to list for under $400? I don't think so. It'll be
: proced right out of the console market anyway. Remember, Turbo-Duo is
: $300 and Sega CD is $250+$90 and falling rapidly.
I think you'll see the CD32 retail for under $400. $399 most
likley. The SEGA CD will probably run around $290 by the end of this year
and that's including the Genesis..but just the new SEGA Genesis II and CD IIs
that are basically smaller, have a few chips consolidated, and have lower
prices.
The Turbo DUO is around $299 now...that's with a lot of pack in
software too. But the Turbo DUO is crap...
: >|> :
: >|> : Yeah, it's a good idea to call the 'CDTV II' CD-32 for
: >|> : '32 bits of power' since Sega and Nintendo claim they are '16-bit'
: >|> : power technology and this makes hype. Now, C='s will be 32 and
: >|> : Atari's.... 64! Holy cow!
: >|>
: >|> Yeah... hopefully we'll see a lot of comparison commercials and
: >|> some sort of Sonic beater and killer fighting game right out of the box.
: >|> Stomp all over Sonic, and try and compete with SFII. Maybe get U.S. Gold
: >|> (ick!) to make an AGA CD version of Hyper Fighting.
:
: > NOW THIS WOULD BE AN AWESOME IDEA. I'LL LIKE TO SEE A HYPER-FIGHTING
: >EDITION, WITH *TONS* OF OPTIONS AND MOVIE-LIKE CDXL ANIMS FOR ENDINGS.
: > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> THIS WOULD SELL <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Maybe, but also have an option for the pure arcade version too.
Some of us arcade purisits like to have an EXACT translation even if
the system is capable of more. That's kind of like why I didn't like the
NES version of Gyruss as much as the old arcade version because Konami
spruced up a classic..which is a no no unless it's a sequel.
But, how about a Hyper Fighting that can be configured into Champion
Edition and regular....and maybe a new custom version? However, Capcom's
agreements with SEGA and Nintendo might prevent something like that
from happening anytime soon. It's all politics...that's why the SEGA version
of SFII was delayed..because Nintendo wanted their HF out earlier if not
at the same time to show once again that the SNES is better and has the better
version of SFII. I bet Nintendo gave Capcom extra cash for delaying SFII
for the Genesis.
: We would like to remind our readership of just what company we are
: talking about. Commodore. Comparison commercials? Remember C='s
: attempts to sell 500's over MTV? Sega's ad-men would eat 'em alive! :)
SEGA's new Ad company is fantastic. Their comparision ads are KILLER.
(The Gameboy vs. Game Gear one was great!). We can always dream..can't
we? Maybe Commodore will hire a better ad agency.
: I don't think CDTV-II's gonna be aimed at the console market, per se.
: Consoles are low-price "Mommy, buy me that" items. The CDTV-II will
: be priced more in the range of the CD-I and the 3DO (whenever it's
: going to be released).
Nope. I think the CD32 will be marketed at the console market.
After all, Commodore is getting MAJOR heat from Nintendo and SEGA in the
UK market and the SEGA CD is selling like crazy over there. Commodore
has been trying to fend off the Console invasion by making low cost
Amigas (i.e. the 600 and 1200) so the CD32 is a low cost CD game system.
After all..when CDTV was announced all you heard about was stuff like
Compton's, Japan World, etc... now we're hearing about Zool 2, etc. and
that's straight from Commodore! Fair from their 'anti-games' stance years
ago..
: > IN FACT, I'LL BUY ONE RIGHT AWAY!
: > I mean, if they do AN EXCELLENT, Nearly IDENTICAL ARCADE translation
: >of the Hyper-fighting edition with options to play any edition you want (original,
: >champion, etc.) THIS WOULD SELL! People will just buy it just to have that.
: > BUT IT HAS TO BE NEARLY IDENTICAL AND GOOD.
:
: Depends on the price. Basically, IF PRICE >= 700 THEN GOTO NOSALE. :)
Right. SFII sold a lot of SNES, but if the SNES was $399 I
dont think it would be the same deal. HF would HELP, but if Commodore
would snatch up a lot of high profile and great looking titles..then
people would be enticed.
: > But btw, I hear that the hyper-fighting edition will come out for the
: >Super-NES before christmas (1993).
It's already out in Japan....due out in September here I think.
20 Megabits.
: >|> : BTW, Jaguar is scheduled for $200 (no CD-ROM) with CD-ROM around
: >|> : $200. THIS FALLS IN THE CD-32 price range!
: >|>
: >|> Yeah, but that's the converted U.S. price. I bet they'll get it in
: >|> at under $399 in the U.S. when it first hits these shores.
:
: What exactly *is* the CD-32 price range?
I don't know, but I'm willing to bet it's going to be $399. IF it's
released in the U.S.
: >|> : 2. Double Speed CD-ROM -> was about time!
: >|>
: >|> BIG advantage over the crummy SEGA CD which has trouble keeping up
: >|> with 8 frames per second on games like Cobra Command...due to the poor
: >|> access time.
: > Yep, Sega CD is sh*t.
Definitley. That's why the MegaCD has been such a failure in
Japan. No good software, and cheesy capabilities.
: But it's been out for quite some time ... one wonders if Sega's going
: to release a new CD-unit anytime soon (maybe that's the reason for
: the price drop on the Sega CD). IMHO, that thing was never designed
: for full-motion video. Kinda like playing Dragon's Lair on the Amiga. :)
Quite some time? It's barley been a year... heck, it HASN'T been
a year since it was released in the US. It's been around in Japan for
a few...but it's a total failure in Japan. If they released a new
CD unit now, they'd divide valuable sales of the SEGA CD units. They'd
make the SEGA CD obsolete in under a year! "That's a no-no too daffy!" (
love that quote!) I think what SEGA will do is release a 32bit or RISC
system that will hook into the original SEGA CD hardware so people can
use their more expensive SEGA CDs and replace the cheaper Genesis with
a 32 bit or RISC based unit. But it will be awhile...I bet SEGA won't
release the 32 bit monster inside of 2 years. They are still showing
off new hardware for the Gen like the Virtua VR (CRAP!!!!...notice how
the press release hinted at VR goggles for the CD32..it's a fact that
W Industries have been working on a Visette for the Amiga with special
polygon acelleration chips in them -DSP??-..hmm..maybe this is it?) so
it looks like the Gen is here to stay...or at least for another 2 years.
: >|> : I have to say the following and I hope C= listens to this:
: >|> :
: >|> :
: >|> : * GUYS, IF YOU FAIL AT MAKING AWESOME SOFTWARE FOR THIS MACHINE,
: >|> : YOU ARE HISTORY WITH CD-32. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE UPCOMING
: >|> : DEFENDER OF THE CROWN II?
: >|>
: >|>
: >|> Yep! I say right out of the box...bring out Zool 2 AGA...
: >|> some fighting game.. DOC II, some 3-D game or something (Odyssey??),
: >|> and maybe an RPG just to appeal to everyone.
: >|>
: >|> :
: >|> : A GAME LIKE THIS, WITH LOTS OF ANIMATED CARTOONISH-SCENES
: >|> : AND LOTS OF STRATEGY AND COMPLEXITY WOULD SELL.
: >|>
: >|> Definitley! They need to make impressive LOOKING software. Forget
: >|> about playability on the first few titles. Just make them all singing-all
: >|> dancing. That way people will be wowed by the graphics and sound and
: >|> maybe overlook the playability.
:
: > Hmmmm.... actually, they have to go with both. At least with the title
: >that comes with the unit.. why? It would be like something you crave for,
: >something you want, something everybody want, something everybody will buy.
It's the graphics and sound that will first catch the average
video game players eye. You cant 'see' playability in a magazine ad or T.V.
ad... you can only see the graphics and hear the sound. Sure, they should
put out one classic with great playability...but first they need FLASH!
A lot of SEGA's first titles for the Genesis were all flash and no playability.
: Overlook playability and, young Skywalker, you will die. Maybe one of
: the reasons that Sega sold so much is that they packaged Sonic with
: the system - it not only looks pretty good, but also it's very
: playable. Nintendo has Super Mario Brothers - also very playable, but
: not quite as good-looking as Sonic. (Nintendo = 8-bit and SNES)
Yeah, that's why they need to put out a few classics (not necessarily
coming out with yet another platformer mascot..but I guess Zool will do,
even if it is being ported to other systems and the arcade) but also put
out quite a few games with flash and good sound. Maybe even hire popular
bands to do the soundtracks for a bunch of their games.
: (As an aside, TG-16 had "Keith Courage", which looked OK but suffered
: from lack of playability - and look where it went...)
That was a TOTALLY PATHETIC GAME! They learned there lesson quick
though and released Bonk.. which wasn't exactly a masterpiece either.
: >|> : SOFTWARE SELLS MACHINES, TAKE ADVANTAGE THAT THE CD-32 IS THE
: >|> : ONLY MACHINE THAT HAS INEXPENSIVE AND POWERFULL DEVELOPMENT
: >|> : TOOLS!
: >|>
: >|> Yeah, entice SEGA CD developers to the CD32 because their 68000
: >|> coders can grapple the 68020 very easily.
: > Yep.
:
: Only problem is that C= lacks the marketing ability to drive marketers
: from Sega over to the C=. Witness CDTV (the original), the A500, and
: quite possibly the A1200. Nintendo and Sega are in Toys R Us,
: Wal-mart, Sears, etc. Where is C=? Only at "Authorized Dealers" and
: mail-order. If CDTV-II is going to survive, C='s going to have to
: change their marketing style. Bite the bullet and get the machines
: out to where people will see them and stop making people go looking
: for them!
Hey, some of Commodore's products are still being sold at TRU.
As a matter of fact, last time I went there they had a Commodore 128 for
only 400 bucks! :) I'm sure a chain like TRU or Kay-Bee will be interested
in such a big development as this. TRU is dropping the Atari Lynx, but
they still have said they will carry any new machine Atari will bring
forth (i.e. Jag).
I think Commodore realizes they have to market this as a game
machine and not some half-baked 'Multimedia Box' like CDTV was. That
MM approach didn't work for Commodore, Phillips (even though they are
still clinging to it), or Tandy (ditto). I think Commodore will go
full steam into the console market. This is obviously a game machine
first.... computer/multimedia box second...(witness the MPEG-1 as a
seperate module). Commodore's big problem with the Amiga is availability,
but hopefully they will get CD32s out there.
Commodore also needs to do a better job advertising. SEGA and
NEC both had innovative ad campaigns (sp? augh! It's 230 am who cares!)
like the SEGA VAN where they would pull the van up to malls...set up
shows of all the new games and throw SEGA sunglasses, T-Shirts, and posters to
the fawning crowds. NEC did the same thing...but it wasn't as effective.
Nintendo also had their Nintendo World Championships '90 which was just
a cheap PR stunt an the Nintendo Power Tour last year which travelled
to malls with all the new SNES software (including the SFII beta at
the time).
It's like to see a Commodore Party Wagon (hah!) or something like
that go on a massive mall tour.....with some crazy wattage, huge screens,
and a dynamite lineup of games and free stuff!
--
Ralph A.Barbagallo III_Only AMIGA Makes it Possible!_nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us
[ Amiga 4000/030, Amiga 500, Commodore 64, Atari 800XL, Atari 2600, 7800, ]
[ Lynx, Sega Master System, Genesis, Game Gear, NES, SNES, Game Boy, NEO GEO]
[ TurboGrafx-16/CDROM, Odyssey 500, ColecoVision, Vectrex-BOB LOVES YOU !!!!]
Charles E Rick Taylor IV
> You don't need the DSP to get the 8 voices... (if that's what you
>meant). The NEO GEO has 15 voices of sound with 7 digital and 8 FM synth...
>works VERY well.
Well, it might be the best way to go to get better sounds. Best being
a compromise between cost and quality.
> I think you'll see the CD32 retail for under $400. $399 most
>likley. The SEGA CD will probably run around $290 by the end of this year
>and that's including the Genesis..but just the new SEGA Genesis II and CD IIs
>that are basically smaller, have a few chips consolidated, and have lower
>prices.
I was disappointed by the announcement of a "smaller" Genesis. What
Sega needs is an 020 based Genesis with DSP. Step aside, SNES. :)
But I digress - and C= may be already trying to do what Sega should be
doing - that is release a product with quality graphics/sound (AGA
kicks butt over *any* console, and the Amiga sound chip isn't *bad* -
but could be improved IMHO)
> The Turbo DUO is around $299 now...that's with a lot of pack in
>software too. But the Turbo DUO is crap...
The Duo also has virtually no marketing for it. Sound familiar? :)
> Maybe, but also have an option for the pure arcade version too.
>Some of us arcade purisits like to have an EXACT translation even if
>the system is capable of more. That's kind of like why I didn't like the
>NES version of Gyruss as much as the old arcade version because Konami
>spruced up a classic..which is a no no unless it's a sequel.
Well, I think for an SFII type game, the teeming millions would go
"cool! mew moves!" and buy it. But with the CD, there should be no
trouble fitting code to allow for the "original" game.
> But, how about a Hyper Fighting that can be configured into Champion
>Edition and regular....and maybe a new custom version? However, Capcom's
>agreements with SEGA and Nintendo might prevent something like that
>from happening anytime soon. It's all politics...that's why the SEGA version
>of SFII was delayed..because Nintendo wanted their HF out earlier if not
>at the same time to show once again that the SNES is better and has the better
>version of SFII. I bet Nintendo gave Capcom extra cash for delaying SFII
>for the Genesis.
Possible - I wouldn't put anything past Nintendo!
>: We would like to remind our readership of just what company we are
>: talking about. Commodore. Comparison commercials? Remember C='s
>: attempts to sell 500's over MTV? Sega's ad-men would eat 'em alive! :)
> SEGA's new Ad company is fantastic. Their comparision ads are KILLER.
>(The Gameboy vs. Game Gear one was great!). We can always dream..can't
>we? Maybe Commodore will hire a better ad agency.
We *can* dream ... :)
>: I don't think CDTV-II's gonna be aimed at the console market, per se.
>: Consoles are low-price "Mommy, buy me that" items. The CDTV-II will
>: be priced more in the range of the CD-I and the 3DO (whenever it's
>: going to be released).
> Nope. I think the CD32 will be marketed at the console market.
>After all, Commodore is getting MAJOR heat from Nintendo and SEGA in the
>UK market and the SEGA CD is selling like crazy over there. Commodore
>has been trying to fend off the Console invasion by making low cost
>Amigas (i.e. the 600 and 1200) so the CD32 is a low cost CD game system.
>After all..when CDTV was announced all you heard about was stuff like
>Compton's, Japan World, etc... now we're hearing about Zool 2, etc. and
>that's straight from Commodore! Fair from their 'anti-games' stance years
>ago..
I dunno. It's really hard to see what C= plans to do until they
actually do it. If the picture that I got recently of the supposed
CD32 is correct, you may well be right - it certainly does look like a
game machine.
>: Depends on the price. Basically, IF PRICE >= 700 THEN GOTO NOSALE. :)
> Right. SFII sold a lot of SNES, but if the SNES was $399 I
>dont think it would be the same deal. HF would HELP, but if Commodore
>would snatch up a lot of high profile and great looking titles..then
>people would be enticed.
Or they could just make the titles they *are* creating high-profile.
There was no Sonic arcade game, but Sonic is rather high-profile. Of
course, that's up to the C= marketing people.
>: >|> Yeah, but that's the converted U.S. price. I bet they'll get it in
>: >|> at under $399 in the U.S. when it first hits these shores.
>:
>: What exactly *is* the CD-32 price range?
> I don't know, but I'm willing to bet it's going to be $399. IF it's
>released in the U.S.
One *would* hope. But Commodore would have to push it like heck over
here.
>: But it's been out for quite some time ... one wonders if Sega's going
>: to release a new CD-unit anytime soon (maybe that's the reason for
>: the price drop on the Sega CD). IMHO, that thing was never designed
>: for full-motion video. Kinda like playing Dragon's Lair on the Amiga. :)
> Quite some time? It's barley been a year... heck, it HASN'T been
>a year since it was released in the US. It's been around in Japan for
>a few...but it's a total failure in Japan.
The point is that it's old news.
> If they released a new
>CD unit now, they'd divide valuable sales of the SEGA CD units. They'd
>make the SEGA CD obsolete in under a year! "That's a no-no too daffy!" (
>love that quote!) I think what SEGA will do is release a 32bit or RISC
>system that will hook into the original SEGA CD hardware so people can
>use their more expensive SEGA CDs and replace the cheaper Genesis with
>a 32 bit or RISC based unit.
Hmmm ... would still be hampered with the slow CD-ROM of the SegaCD.
That's the only problem I can see with that.
> But it will be awhile...I bet SEGA won't
>release the 32 bit monster inside of 2 years.
Heck, in two years 32-bit will be old-hat.
> They are still showing
>off new hardware for the Gen like the Virtua VR (CRAP!!!!...notice how
>the press release hinted at VR goggles for the CD32..it's a fact that
>W Industries have been working on a Visette for the Amiga with special
>polygon acelleration chips in them -DSP??-..hmm..maybe this is it?) so
>it looks like the Gen is here to stay...or at least for another 2 years.
Never seen VR goggles for the Sega. I don't think it's quite powerful
enough for them.
As for VR for the CD32, is *it* even powerful enough for "good" VR?
I'd think those special chips might be a too-costly problem for it.
(Or maybe people will see Sega's VR and get turned off by it.)
> It's the graphics and sound that will first catch the average
>video game players eye. You cant 'see' playability in a magazine ad or T.V.
>ad... you can only see the graphics and hear the sound. Sure, they should
>put out one classic with great playability...but first they need FLASH!
>A lot of SEGA's first titles for the Genesis were all flash and no playability.
>: Overlook playability and, young Skywalker, you will die. Maybe one of
>: the reasons that Sega sold so much is that they packaged Sonic with
>: the system - it not only looks pretty good, but also it's very
>: playable. Nintendo has Super Mario Brothers - also very playable, but
>: not quite as good-looking as Sonic. (Nintendo = 8-bit and SNES)
> Yeah, that's why they need to put out a few classics (not necessarily
>coming out with yet another platformer mascot..but I guess Zool will do,
>even if it is being ported to other systems and the arcade) but also put
>out quite a few games with flash and good sound. Maybe even hire popular
>bands to do the soundtracks for a bunch of their games.
That might be too much capital to expect from C=, but I think they
could make amazing games for the CD32 without "popular bands". And
also, popular bands nowadays have the nasty habit of not remaining
popular very long, so that wouldn't necessarily work towards C='s
advantage.
>: (As an aside, TG-16 had "Keith Courage", which looked OK but suffered
>: from lack of playability - and look where it went...)
> That was a TOTALLY PATHETIC GAME! They learned there lesson quick
>though and released Bonk.. which wasn't exactly a masterpiece either.
Never tried Bonk - I just got my TG16 for a few arcade conversions that
were pretty good.
>: Only problem is that C= lacks the marketing ability to drive marketers
>: from Sega over to the C=. Witness CDTV (the original), the A500, and
>: quite possibly the A1200. Nintendo and Sega are in Toys R Us,
>: Wal-mart, Sears, etc. Where is C=? Only at "Authorized Dealers" and
>: mail-order. If CDTV-II is going to survive, C='s going to have to
>: change their marketing style. Bite the bullet and get the machines
>: out to where people will see them and stop making people go looking
>: for them!
> Hey, some of Commodore's products are still being sold at TRU.
>As a matter of fact, last time I went there they had a Commodore 128 for
>only 400 bucks! :)
I noticed - they used to have a C= COLT and a C-128D (for about $599)
at out TRU. Also, they have a 300 baud modem for $60!
> I'm sure a chain like TRU or Kay-Bee will be interested
>in such a big development as this. TRU is dropping the Atari Lynx, but
>they still have said they will carry any new machine Atari will bring
>forth (i.e. Jag).
If C= will push it, yes. I think the 1200 should have been pushed
*much* more than it was - hopefuly, they'll do better with CD32.
> Commodore's big problem with the Amiga is availability,
>but hopefully they will get CD32s out there.
This is going to decide whether CD32 is a success or not, more than
any other factor.
> Commodore also needs to do a better job advertising. SEGA and
>NEC both had innovative ad campaigns (sp? augh! It's 230 am who cares!)
>like the SEGA VAN where they would pull the van up to malls...set up
>shows of all the new games and throw SEGA sunglasses, T-Shirts, and posters to
>the fawning crowds. NEC did the same thing...but it wasn't as effective.
>Nintendo also had their Nintendo World Championships '90 which was just
>a cheap PR stunt an the Nintendo Power Tour last year which travelled
>to malls with all the new SNES software (including the SFII beta at
>the time).
Yep, it's pretty well proven that technology won't sell itself to the
teeming masses. Ads, however, will.
> It's like to see a Commodore Party Wagon (hah!) or something like
>that go on a massive mall tour.....with some crazy wattage, huge screens,
>and a dynamite lineup of games and free stuff!
Amiga CD32: The console with BASS!
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
|> >In article <C9s1w...@genesis.nred.ma.us>, nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
|> >|> Ricardo Hernandez Muchado (ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com) wrote:
|> >|>
|> >|> :
|> >|> : I got mixed feelings:
|> >|> :
|> >|> : > This is the machine to compete against the SuperNintendo and
|> >|> : the Sega Genesis, now some things that make me worry:
|> >|> :
|> >|> : 1. Sound is the same Amiga sound, unless we combine it with the CD audio
|> >|>
|> >|> Duh! So what? 4 voice digital audio is adequate.
|>
|> > Don't say Duh! Hear a Super Nes Game like SuperStarwars and then let
|> >me know if you'll say 'Duh!'. Having 8-voice means that you can fire
|> >(like in Turrican) at the same time the enemy fires at you and you don't lose
|> >any music instruments at all.
|>
|> Even Sega Genesis's and TG-16's 6 voices can put you in the game more
|> than the Amiga's 4 if they're done right.
I really doubt it, *if* the Amiga's voices are done right... now a super-nes would...
|> Yes, they are inferior
|> quality to the Amiga's voices - but there are more of them. Maybe
|> they'll do with the new CDTV what they're doing to games like Ecco the
|> Dolphin on SegaCD - which I'm told has *very* good sound effects.
The SegaCD supposedly adds new sound chip to the Genesis.
[stuff deleted]
|>
|> > I see that you didn't mention the SuperNes... The Super Nes has 8 voice
|> >8-bit stereo sound with a DSP...
|>
|> Well, the SuperNES doesn't have a CD console yet (if ever :) ), so
|> you're not really competing with SuperNES anyhow.
Well, you are because you are talking about a games console, and if
the games we'll see on CD are the same old 'floppy games' then they compete perfectly.
|> > Yes, Jaguar's CD-ROM will be extra, but they are looking for a price of
|> >$200... $400 for a Jaguar with CD-ROM, yes, it's too early to tell, but....
|>
|> Is CDTV going to list for under $400? I don't think so.
I didn't say it would.
[stuff deleted]
[stuff deleted]
|>
|> I don't think CDTV-II's gonna be aimed at the console market, per se.
|> Consoles are low-price "Mommy, buy me that" items. The CDTV-II will
|> be priced more in the range of the CD-I and the 3DO (whenever it's
|> going to be released).
|>
|> > IN FACT, I'LL BUY ONE RIGHT AWAY!
|> > I mean, if they do AN EXCELLENT, Nearly IDENTICAL ARCADE translation
|> >of the Hyper-fighting edition with options to play any edition you want (original,
|> >champion, etc.) THIS WOULD SELL! People will just buy it just to have that.
|> > BUT IT HAS TO BE NEARLY IDENTICAL AND GOOD.
|>
|> Depends on the price. Basically, IF PRICE >= 700 THEN GOTO NOSALE. :)
Remember, the price would be around $400->$450 (Retail) and not $700.
|>
|> > But btw, I hear that the hyper-fighting edition will come out for the
|> >Super-NES before christmas (1993).
|>
|> >|> :
|> >|> : BTW, Jaguar is scheduled for $200 (no CD-ROM) with CD-ROM around
|> >|> : $200. THIS FALLS IN THE CD-32 price range!
|> >|>
|> >|> Yeah, but that's the converted U.S. price. I bet they'll get it in
|> >|> at under $399 in the U.S. when it first hits these shores.
|>
|> What exactly *is* the CD-32 price range?
Around $400.
|>
|>
|> >|> : 2. Double Speed CD-ROM -> was about time!
|> >|>
|> >|> BIG advantage over the crummy SEGA CD which has trouble keeping up
|> >|> with 8 frames per second on games like Cobra Command...due to the poor
|> >|> access time.
|> > Yep, Sega CD is sh*t.
|>
|> But it's been out for quite some time ... one wonders if Sega's going
|> to release a new CD-unit anytime soon (maybe that's the reason for
|> the price drop on the Sega CD).
Really doubtfull, unless they make a totally new expansion box. And
BTW, the SEGA CD hasn't been out for quite some time, at least not to the
point if has a wide variety of selections (at least in the US).
[stuff deleted]
|>
|> > Hmmmm.... actually, they have to go with both. At least with the title
|> >that comes with the unit.. why? It would be like something you crave for,
|> >something you want, something everybody want, something everybody will buy.
|>
|> Overlook playability and, young Skywalker, you will die. Maybe one of
|> the reasons that Sega sold so much is that they packaged Sonic with
|> the system - it not only looks pretty good, but also it's very
|> playable. Nintendo has Super Mario Brothers - also very playable, but
|> not quite as good-looking as Sonic. (Nintendo = 8-bit and SNES)
Agreed.
[stuff deleted]
|>
|> Only problem is that C= lacks the marketing ability to drive marketers
|> from Sega over to the C=. Witness CDTV (the original), the A500, and
|> quite possibly the A1200. Nintendo and Sega are in Toys R Us,
|> Wal-mart, Sears, etc. Where is C=? Only at "Authorized Dealers" and
|> mail-order. If CDTV-II is going to survive, C='s going to have to
|> change their marketing style. Bite the bullet and get the machines
|> out to where people will see them and stop making people go looking
|> for them!
Agreed.
|>
|> --
|> + Rick __ + MAIL:cha...@hubcap.clemson.edu + //\ TG16,SEGA + Sonic is +
|> | /aylor | cha...@eng.clemson.edu | \X/--\miga 500 | my roll |
|> +-------------+---------------------------------+-----------------+ model... |
|> + "Every Girl Already Has A Boyfriend" --- Murphy's Law Of Dating +----------+
--
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> In article <1993Jul07.1...@rchland.ibm.com> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
|> >In article <21f6fo...@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU>, dst...@storm.cs.orst.edu (David Stuve) writes:
|> >|> >In article <C9s19...@genesis.nred.ma.us>, nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
|> > This are the stuff IBM will do for ATARI:
|> >
|> > 1. Manufacture it
|> > 2. Quality-assure it
|> > 3. Ship it and distribute it.
|> >
|> This sounds like IBM will just make the units, and ship them wherever
|> Atari wants them shipped. My definition of distribution was marketing
|> representatives, promotions, signing up dealers, sending out catalogues
|> so that people can order them from IBM, etc.
Your first sentence is true. No, distribution is not marketting, etc.
|>
|> A picture of my definition of distribution goes like this:
|>
|> jaguars go this way
|> Atari -> IBM -> dealers -> customers
|>
|> and money goes this way
|> customers -> dealers-> IBM -> Atari
|>
|> I think we just have differing definitions of what "distributing"
|> machines means.
Yep. :-)
|>
|> -David
Now, the deal is that ATARI should be able to easily meet demand
(remember all the A1200 CBM problems with not being able to supply
in demand?) and have the machines arrive where people want it.
I guess the questions left are: will people want it? True,
I agree that the Jaguar does not have a guaranteed success, but
ATARI has killed 4 of their biggest problems by making a deal with
IBM:
1. Credibility-> machine won't be vaporware.
2. Quality Assurance
3. Manufacture in Volume
4. Ship machines to places where people want it.
This is not a guarantee of success, but at least is the First-well
done step.
|>
|>
|>
|> --
|> ========================================================================
|> David Stuve | InterNet: dst...@storm.cs.orst.edu
|> Software Engineer |
|> MindWorks -- Advanced Amiga Software | Crescat Scientia Vita Excolatur
--
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
|> >
|> > Wich is why the Jaguar scares me... I thought it was vaporware, until
|> >I read some news here.... IBM will distribute it! It will be virtually
|> >everywhere! HEY! Why doesn't C= make the same deal with IBM? They sure
|> >can!
|> >
|> Aaarggh! I can't take it any more!
Neither do I, read on...
|> Re-read that Atari press release.
I have even read the IBM reporst :-|
|> Nowhere does it say that IBM is selling, distributing, marketing, or in any
|> way doing anything related to the Jaguar except getting paid 500 million
|> (assuming Atari can sell enough units to raise that kind of cash) to
|> _manufacture_ _the_ _units_. Jaguar is in no way an IBM product or subject to
|> any assistance from IBM. Atari is essentially renting factory space and
|> workers. It's still up to Atari to sell the machine, and it's still up to
|> Atari to get to a state where it's ready to manufacture.
|> Don't let the press releases fool you.
GUYS:: I don't know from WHERE people have conluded that what I meant is that
IBM will sell, market or have a joint sexy venture with ATARI.
I DIDN'T SAY THIS!
All I said was:
IBM will manufacture
IBM will do the quality assurance
IBM will distribute it, and by distribution it means ship it
to where ATARI wants
WHAT ATARI HAS TO DO:
ATARI has to develop the software
ATARI has to market it
ATARI has to set prices, face competition, promote the thing
WHAT IS DEFINITIVELY *NOT TRUE* :
IBM and ATARI have a joint venture<- NOT TRUE
IBM will market the Jaguar <- NOT TRUE
I hope this clears up the misunderstandings...
|> --
|> Don Lloyd | Publications Editor, AmigaNetwork |AmigaNetwork Voice Mail
|> d...@chopin.udel.edu | AmigaNetwork BBS (The Original!) | Info by voice or FAX
|> GeNIE: D.LLOYD7 | (302)368-3942 (v.32bis) | (GVP PhonePak)
|> BIX: DRL | (302)368-1067 (USR HST) | (302)368-4673)
--
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
Hear STFII with for example the Chun-LI scene and fight. There's no easy
way how the Amiga could do the same rich music along with the player fighting
sounds. Rent SuperStarWars or ActRaiser and then tell me who has better
sound.
BTW, connect the super-nintendo using the stereo cable to a stereo too.
It is way better than the Amiga sound...
|>
|> -- Gerald
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> In article <1993Jul06.1...@rchland.ibm.com>, Ricardo Hernandez Muchado (ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com) wrote:
|> : Okay, I'll buy that one... but hey! you erased reason #7!
|>
|> : HOW IS THIS GOING TO COMPETE AGAINST ATARI'S JAGUAR?!!!!
|> : 7. GUYS, THE ATARI JAGUAR, FOR WHAT IT LOOKS SO FAR, CAN EAT THIS
|> : MACHINE 24-BIT 16.6 MILLION TIMES. This machine is also 64-bits!
|>
|> This is kind of a silly, stupid question, so I'll answer it
|> semi-rhetorically...
|>
|> How many remember how technically advanced the Sega Master System was, in
|> comparison to the old Nintendo Entertainment System?
|>
|> How on earth did the Sega system fail when it was so much better than
|> Nintendo's offering?
|>
|> Don't answer. But this should make it clear that technical merit doesn't
|> necessarily mean a damn thing. Hell, look at the NEO-GEO. :)
|>
|> Greg
And I agree with you Greg... but hey, technical merit is what made
the Amiga the Amiga and losing all of that would be really bad,
wouldn't it... All I say is that it presents the potential (Jaguar)
to kick-butt big time. :-|
|>
|> --
|> (: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today? Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
|> (: LEMMINGS: Like their computer counterpart, "lemmings" are a group :)
|> (: of people who begin their existence on Amigas, and migrate. :)
|> (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) Wubba :)
--
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> In article <C9KuJ...@qdpii.ind.dpi.qld.gov.au>, dav...@qdpii.ind.dpi.qld.gov.au (David Meiklejohn) writes:
[stuff deleted]
|>
|> Let's face it, machines do nothing, it is all the software that runs on them.
|> Being a Amiga also means it has the drawbacks of an Amiga. With WB3.x installed
|> you have memory that you can not use during your game. I really do not want
|> to get into this argument again, but WB3.x has A LOT more than what is needed
|> in a game for CD32 -- this is not a plus.
I mostly agree with you, except on the above paragraph: who said the games
have to work under the Workbench?
|>
|> As for development, people who do SEGA work have nice development systems and
|> tools (I do development on a 486 under NT and a Amiga 3000), it is just not a
|> open system like the Amiga is.
|>
|> As for seeing real AGA games, you will.
|>
|> -- _ _ _ _
|> Brett Bourbin (_ |_ | /__ | |(_ 4431 Lehigh Road, Suite 151
|> br...@netcom.com __)|_ |_\_/ \_/__) College Park, Maryland 20740
|> BIX: bbourbin LIMITED 703.758.2733
--
Robert Buonincontro
MB>Okay, so an AGA type of CDTV is materlizing but what about
MB>the rest of us? I am going to buy an Amiga 1200 in a week
MB>(I am buying it to play games at work with a co-worker and
MB>use Amiga applications for graphics). Will there be a
MB>CD rom attachment for the 1200 with the double speed
MB>features and when? If Commodore gets a CD-ROM out soon
MB>after the CDTV2, I won't be so disappointed. But will it
MB>happen?
If the new Amiga CD console sells then you can bet on an Amiga
CD Player coming out for the A1200!
MB>I have seen some video and screen shots of games for the
MB>3DO system. The stuff looked very impressive. Has
MB>anyone seen the "Star Trek - The Next Generation"
MB>video game for 3DO? I saw it on a video from the recent
MB>CES in Chicago. The game's graphics are all 3d renderings.
MB>I don't recall the name of the company making the game.
Yeah 3DO looks good. The only problem with 3DO is the price. The systems
are expected to sell for $800. Like the CDTV I find it hard to justify
$800 for a game system. The biggest problem is most game sysytems don't
last more they 3-5 years. After that it's nothing more then a very
expensive CD Player. They should build a laser disc player into it. At
least then it's a little easier to justify the cost since you can use it
to watch movies and play audio cds when you're not playing games. I think
it will bomb like CDTV and CDI!
MB>It is interesting to note that Pysgnosis is hard at work
MB>making 3DO games as from what I have read.
Yes Psygnosis is busy making CD Games for all platforms. The 3DO is just
one of the platforms they are supporting. They are getting into the CD
market in a big way. They have plans to release CD version of their games
for Amiga/CDTV, IBM, CD-32 (Commodore Game Console), Apple 3DO ect.
robert.buonincontro&canrem.com
---
ş DeLuxeı 1.12 #8947 ş The Amiga Is Not A Religion! It's A Computer!
Fredrik Liliegren
>
> Did Peter Kittel mention anything about CDROMS for the A4000/1200
> being compatible with this new machine? Commodore finally has done it.
> The perfect game machine. Sure 3DO and the Jaguar are better...but 3D0 is
> real competition since it's being distributed and manufactured by IBM.
> $350..it should be possible. It will STOMP ALL OVER the Genesis CD and
> the super CHEESY Duo. Go Commodore!!!! Promote it this time!!!
To my knowledge it will not be released in the USA!
--
+- Fredrik Liliegren - Digital Illusions -+- Your sufferings will be -+
| Speaking for myself and nobody else! | legendary even in hell. |
+- fre...@gilbert.adsp.sub.org -+- Pinhead - Hellraiser II -+
Gregory R Block
: To give you a little background from the SEGA (where my experience is) you can
: have 80 sprites on the screen at a time (each from 8x8 to 32x32), the Amiga
: can 8. The SEGA sprites can have 16 colors in them, on the Amiga to do this,
: you drop your sprite count to 4.
Well, technically, that's 8 per raster line on the Amiga. Remember, you
can reuse sprites.
And as to 3.1 being a disadvantage? Not really. Most games will only
need, and only use, the part that is in ROM. Nothing else.
Greg
--
(: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today? Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
(: BOOPSI (boop see) n. 1. Acronym, "Buy Our Other Products or :)
(: Suffer the Inquisition", spoken while threatening with objects. :)
Andrew J Wattenhofer-1
>MB>Okay, so an AGA type of CDTV is materlizing but what about
>MB>the rest of us? I am going to buy an Amiga 1200 in a week
>MB>(I am buying it to play games at work with a co-worker and
>MB>use Amiga applications for graphics). Will there be a
>MB>CD rom attachment for the 1200 with the double speed
>MB>features and when? If Commodore gets a CD-ROM out soon
>MB>after the CDTV2, I won't be so disappointed. But will it
>MB>happen?
>If the new Amiga CD console sells then you can bet on an Amiga
>CD Player coming out for the A1200!
Commodore has been promising CD-ROM drives for all the Amiga for a while now. I
think it is safe to say that they will be out soon. If you're interested, take
a look at the latest issue of Compute (August 93, Amiga edition). They report
that Eggebrecht said the first CD-ROM products will be external drives, but
there will be an internal unit for the A4000 eventually.
Excuse me?
[...Stuff about Amiga and Sega sprites deleted...]
>So on the Amiga, you must do software sprites with the Blitter, which do not
>come close to hardware sprites of the SEGA/SNES. Plus the SEGA CD/SNES add
Well, you could also simply use the copper to re-use the same
sprite on the same line. Plus, don't forget that the Amiga sprites
don't have a limit in length and that they can have a different x
position on every raster line. So you can really have more than 8
or 4 mulit coloured sprites on the Amiga.
Philipp
(ph...@ucsd.edu)
Ralph Barbagallo
:
: > You don't need the DSP to get the 8 voices... (if that's what you
: >meant). The NEO GEO has 15 voices of sound with 7 digital and 8 FM synth...
: >works VERY well.
:
: Well, it might be the best way to go to get better sounds. Best being
: a compromise between cost and quality.
My point is though..that you don't need extra hardware sound
voices because the CD will take care of most of the music. So the 4 voices
of digital audio can be used for in game effects. Previously we had to
share the 4 voices with music and sound effects together... hence a lot
of 'sound overlapping' where when you'd shoot part of the music would get
blocked out etc. With the music being played off the CD, the internal voices
can be used for in game sound effects etc.
:
: > I think you'll see the CD32 retail for under $400. $399 most
: >likley. The SEGA CD will probably run around $290 by the end of this year
: >and that's including the Genesis..but just the new SEGA Genesis II and CD IIs
: >that are basically smaller, have a few chips consolidated, and have lower
: >prices.
:
: I was disappointed by the announcement of a "smaller" Genesis. What
: Sega needs is an 020 based Genesis with DSP. Step aside, SNES. :)
: But I digress - and C= may be already trying to do what Sega should be
: doing - that is release a product with quality graphics/sound (AGA
: kicks butt over *any* console, and the Amiga sound chip isn't *bad* -
: but could be improved IMHO)
No kidding! SEGA would have made a smart move if they liscensed
Amiga's chipset. They wouldn't have potential competition from Commodore,
and they'd have amazing low-cost 32 bit technology to boot. (of course,
it still remains to be seen how much of a threat Commodore will actually be
with the CD32). Commodore has a good system here. Low cost, high performance,
and limited expandability. That's what the original Genesis was in '89..
a very powerful system that was cheap (at the time $200..but NESs were $150
back then!) and had some expandability... of course some of the stuff like
the TeleGenesis Modem never actually made it to market (but SEGA/AT&T's
Edge 16 card and the Baton Teleplay MODEM are due out this year... looks
like multiplayer networked/modem games will be a big deal in the latter
part of the '90s... Commodore should convert their 1680s to 4800 baud
modems and aim them at the CD32 markets with new multiplayer action/
strategy etc. games).
:
: > The Turbo DUO is around $299 now...that's with a lot of pack in
: >software too. But the Turbo DUO is crap...
:
: The Duo also has virtually no marketing for it. Sound familiar? :)
Actually, that's not totally correct. TTI has put out several
free promotional videos (gee..remember the CDTV "Welcome Tour" video
from Commodore! I still have that...what crap!), and they have a limited
TV ad campaign. ALSO, they have an IMPRESSIVE print ad campaign. I'm
not sure how well they are doing here... but they are probably doing
better than when NEC was runnin' thangs...
: > Maybe, but also have an option for the pure arcade version too.
: >Some of us arcade purisits like to have an EXACT translation even if
: >the system is capable of more. That's kind of like why I didn't like the
: >NES version of Gyruss as much as the old arcade version because Konami
: >spruced up a classic..which is a no no unless it's a sequel.
:
: Well, I think for an SFII type game, the teeming millions would go
: "cool! mew moves!" and buy it. But with the CD, there should be no
: trouble fitting code to allow for the "original" game.
I dunno...if the new moves were an option maybe...but I think a
lot of people want the genuine arcade experience at home (like myself).
If they put extra moves in the SNES version of SFII that weren't in the
arcade release I don't thik I would have been as happy as I was with it.
That's one good thing about CD games... the fact that you can put
several variations on one CD. Or multiple games... (sure, we've had
multi-game carts before..but with 500megs you could put several LARGE
games on one CD).. hmm...how about an Amiga Classics disc with a bunch of
old Amiga games that work with the CD32 liscensed from the original game
companies? Toss on Chuck Rock, Pinball Dreams, Pinball Fantasies, Alien
Breed, Dungeon Master, Chaos Strikes Back, Lotus III, Zool 1, Shadow of
the Beast III, Leander, and a few others for a bargain price.. That's
another thing...the CDs better be cheap.. like $30-40... not like for
CDTV where a lousy shovelware Team Yankee disc would go for $40-50..
:
: > But, how about a Hyper Fighting that can be configured into Champion
: >Edition and regular....and maybe a new custom version? However, Capcom's
: >agreements with SEGA and Nintendo might prevent something like that
: >from happening anytime soon. It's all politics...that's why the SEGA version
: >of SFII was delayed..because Nintendo wanted their HF out earlier if not
: >at the same time to show once again that the SNES is better and has the better
: >version of SFII. I bet Nintendo gave Capcom extra cash for delaying SFII
: >for the Genesis.
:
: Possible - I wouldn't put anything past Nintendo!
Don't... even if they do make good games and systems... their
business practices are a tad shady. Check out the book Game Over.. it
explains it all... although I haven't read it yet.
:
: >: We would like to remind our readership of just what company we are
: >: talking about. Commodore. Comparison commercials? Remember C='s
: >: attempts to sell 500's over MTV? Sega's ad-men would eat 'em alive! :)
:
: > SEGA's new Ad company is fantastic. Their comparision ads are KILLER.
: >(The Gameboy vs. Game Gear one was great!). We can always dream..can't
: >we? Maybe Commodore will hire a better ad agency.
:
: We *can* dream ... :)
Hopefully we won't see "How Stevie Palmer likes his CDROM!".. or
how "Stevie Palmer lifted his house with his CD32"...
:
: >: I don't think CDTV-II's gonna be aimed at the console market, per se.
: >: Consoles are low-price "Mommy, buy me that" items. The CDTV-II will
: >: be priced more in the range of the CD-I and the 3DO (whenever it's
: >: going to be released).
:
: > Nope. I think the CD32 will be marketed at the console market.
: >After all, Commodore is getting MAJOR heat from Nintendo and SEGA in the
: >UK market and the SEGA CD is selling like crazy over there. Commodore
: >has been trying to fend off the Console invasion by making low cost
: >Amigas (i.e. the 600 and 1200) so the CD32 is a low cost CD game system.
: >After all..when CDTV was announced all you heard about was stuff like
: >Compton's, Japan World, etc... now we're hearing about Zool 2, etc. and
: >that's straight from Commodore! Fair from their 'anti-games' stance years
: >ago..
:
: I dunno. It's really hard to see what C= plans to do until they
: actually do it. If the picture that I got recently of the supposed
: CD32 is correct, you may well be right - it certainly does look like a
: game machine.
I know there is an .iff of the system going around. I'll have
to check it out. Maybe it's not real...because Amiga Format did an
article a little while ago where they were speculating on different
possible Amigas and one was an artists' rendition of some sort of Amiga
CD console... It actually looked pretty nice...even if it was a plastic
model (or maybe a computer rendered pic??)
:
: >: Depends on the price. Basically, IF PRICE >= 700 THEN GOTO NOSALE. :)
: > Right. SFII sold a lot of SNES, but if the SNES was $399 I
: >dont think it would be the same deal. HF would HELP, but if Commodore
: >would snatch up a lot of high profile and great looking titles..then
: >people would be enticed.
:
: Or they could just make the titles they *are* creating high-profile.
: There was no Sonic arcade game, but Sonic is rather high-profile. Of
: course, that's up to the C= marketing people.
Sonic was high profile because SEGA promoted the hell out of him.
They never put a push like that behind Alexx Kidd.. I hope they do
Alexx Kidd justice and put him in a team up game with Sonic.. poor Alexx
has been left cold on his ass after years of being the SEGA mascot... same
with Opa Opa and Pao Pao from Fantasty Zone.. ( I can't belive SEGA used
those to stupid space ships as their mascot!)
:
: >: >|> Yeah, but that's the converted U.S. price. I bet they'll get it in
: >: >|> at under $399 in the U.S. when it first hits these shores.
: >:
: >: What exactly *is* the CD-32 price range?
:
: > I don't know, but I'm willing to bet it's going to be $399. IF it's
: >released in the U.S.
:
: One *would* hope. But Commodore would have to push it like heck over
: here.
Definitley. Amiga has a good name games-wise in the UK, but over
here they have much more ground to cover.
:
: >: But it's been out for quite some time ... one wonders if Sega's going
: >: to release a new CD-unit anytime soon (maybe that's the reason for
: >: the price drop on the Sega CD). IMHO, that thing was never designed
: >: for full-motion video. Kinda like playing Dragon's Lair on the Amiga. :)
:
: > Quite some time? It's barley been a year... heck, it HASN'T been
: >a year since it was released in the US. It's been around in Japan for
: >a few...but it's a total failure in Japan.
:
: The point is that it's old news.
Yeah but not old enough to be replaced.
:
: > If they released a new
: >CD unit now, they'd divide valuable sales of the SEGA CD units. They'd
: >make the SEGA CD obsolete in under a year! "That's a no-no too daffy!" (
: >love that quote!) I think what SEGA will do is release a 32bit or RISC
: >system that will hook into the original SEGA CD hardware so people can
: >use their more expensive SEGA CDs and replace the cheaper Genesis with
: >a 32 bit or RISC based unit.
:
: Hmmm ... would still be hampered with the slow CD-ROM of the SegaCD.
: That's the only problem I can see with that.
That's the only problem..and it's a major problem... but SEGA is
going to have to live with it if they want to make a successful 32 bit
or RISC upgrade to the main system. Nobody is going to go out and buy
a new console AND CD just a short year or so after they got the first one.
:
: > But it will be awhile...I bet SEGA won't
: >release the 32 bit monster inside of 2 years.
:
: Heck, in two years 32-bit will be old-hat.
Yeah but in '89 16 bit was old-had (computerwise) but the Genesis
made it. The Video Game industry has a rep for taking old technology
that the computer industry disregards as yesterdays technology and squeezing
great games out of the old chips... for a good price. Since 32 bit
is cheap now..and even cheaper 2 years from now..they may still go that
route..but I think the future of computers and video games is RISC.
:
: > They are still showing
: >off new hardware for the Gen like the Virtua VR (CRAP!!!!...notice how
: >the press release hinted at VR goggles for the CD32..it's a fact that
: >W Industries have been working on a Visette for the Amiga with special
: >polygon acelleration chips in them -DSP??-..hmm..maybe this is it?) so
: >it looks like the Gen is here to stay...or at least for another 2 years.
:
: Never seen VR goggles for the Sega. I don't think it's quite powerful
: enough for them.
Belive me...it isn't.
:
: As for VR for the CD32, is *it* even powerful enough for "good" VR?
: I'd think those special chips might be a too-costly problem for it.
: (Or maybe people will see Sega's VR and get turned off by it.)
It's not really a good platform for -good- VR.. but if they
stuck in some DSPs or whatever into the HMD then you might be able
to get some good rudiementary VR with basic shaded polygons, fractals,
etc.
:
: > It's the graphics and sound that will first catch the average
: >video game players eye. You cant 'see' playability in a magazine ad or T.V.
: >ad... you can only see the graphics and hear the sound. Sure, they should
: >put out one classic with great playability...but first they need FLASH!
: >A lot of SEGA's first titles for the Genesis were all flash and no playability.
: >: Overlook playability and, young Skywalker, you will die. Maybe one of
: >: the reasons that Sega sold so much is that they packaged Sonic with
: >: the system - it not only looks pretty good, but also it's very
: >: playable. Nintendo has Super Mario Brothers - also very playable, but
: >: not quite as good-looking as Sonic. (Nintendo = 8-bit and SNES)
: > Yeah, that's why they need to put out a few classics (not necessarily
: >coming out with yet another platformer mascot..but I guess Zool will do,
: >even if it is being ported to other systems and the arcade) but also put
: >out quite a few games with flash and good sound. Maybe even hire popular
: >bands to do the soundtracks for a bunch of their games.
:
: That might be too much capital to expect from C=, but I think they
: could make amazing games for the CD32 without "popular bands". And
: also, popular bands nowadays have the nasty habit of not remaining
: popular very long, so that wouldn't necessarily work towards C='s
: advantage.
Yeah, I guess you're right. It would cost a lot...but look at
SEGA's Make Your Own Video CDs... even though they aren't that popular
maybe they weren't that expensive to produce??? They could throw on some
old standbys like Led Zepplin, Def Leppard etc.. and then maybe some
Cypress Hill etc... a good mix of different musical styles in one game.
:
: >: (As an aside, TG-16 had "Keith Courage", which looked OK but suffered
: >: from lack of playability - and look where it went...)
: > That was a TOTALLY PATHETIC GAME! They learned there lesson quick
: >though and released Bonk.. which wasn't exactly a masterpiece either.
:
: Never tried Bonk - I just got my TG16 for a few arcade conversions that
: were pretty good.
I got Bonk with the system. It was okay..but nothing to brag
about. I used to LOVE Moto Roader...especially with 5 people playing it.
My fave is Military Madness for the TG-16.
:
: >: Only problem is that C= lacks the marketing ability to drive marketers
: >: from Sega over to the C=. Witness CDTV (the original), the A500, and
: >: quite possibly the A1200. Nintendo and Sega are in Toys R Us,
: >: Wal-mart, Sears, etc. Where is C=? Only at "Authorized Dealers" and
: >: mail-order. If CDTV-II is going to survive, C='s going to have to
: >: change their marketing style. Bite the bullet and get the machines
: >: out to where people will see them and stop making people go looking
: >: for them!
:
: > Hey, some of Commodore's products are still being sold at TRU.
: >As a matter of fact, last time I went there they had a Commodore 128 for
: >only 400 bucks! :)
:
: I noticed - they used to have a C= COLT and a C-128D (for about $599)
: at out TRU. Also, they have a 300 baud modem for $60!
:
: > I'm sure a chain like TRU or Kay-Bee will be interested
: >in such a big development as this. TRU is dropping the Atari Lynx, but
: >they still have said they will carry any new machine Atari will bring
: >forth (i.e. Jag).
:
: If C= will push it, yes. I think the 1200 should have been pushed
: *much* more than it was - hopefuly, they'll do better with CD32.
They should make some noise at the winter CES. That's where
you make your deals with chains like TRU etc. to carry your product.
They SHOULD have made noise at the Summer CES. That way they could drum
up some publicity for Xmas...they may have missed the boat. I'm sure
they had a prototype by May... maybe not any software though... but
I'm sure they could have set up the CD32 with a beta of Zool 2 or something
like that..
:
: > Commodore's big problem with the Amiga is availability,
: >but hopefully they will get CD32s out there.
:
: This is going to decide whether CD32 is a success or not, more than
: any other factor.
:
: > Commodore also needs to do a better job advertising. SEGA and
: >NEC both had innovative ad campaigns (sp? augh! It's 230 am who cares!)
: >like the SEGA VAN where they would pull the van up to malls...set up
: >shows of all the new games and throw SEGA sunglasses, T-Shirts, and posters to
: >the fawning crowds. NEC did the same thing...but it wasn't as effective.
: >Nintendo also had their Nintendo World Championships '90 which was just
: >a cheap PR stunt an the Nintendo Power Tour last year which travelled
: >to malls with all the new SNES software (including the SFII beta at
: >the time).
:
: Yep, it's pretty well proven that technology won't sell itself to the
: teeming masses. Ads, however, will.
:
: > It's like to see a Commodore Party Wagon (hah!) or something like
: >that go on a massive mall tour.....with some crazy wattage, huge screens,
: >and a dynamite lineup of games and free stuff!
:
: Amiga CD32: The console with BASS!
:
--
Jason Nellis
RM> In article <1993Jul8.0...@seas.gwu.edu>, ger...@seas.gwu.edu
RM> (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
RM> |> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
RM> |> >
RM> |> > I see that you didn't mention the SuperNes... The Super Nes has 8
RM> voice
RM> |> >8-bit stereo sound with a DSP...
RM> |>
RM> |> Is this true? I'm borrowing by brother's SNES now while he's out of
RM> town,
RM> |> just to play Street Fighter II. :-) The SNES doesn't sound nearly as
RM> good
RM> |> as my old A500. Are they not using the 8 voices or the DSP?
RM> Hear STFII with for example the Chun-LI scene and fight. There's no
RM> easy
RM> way how the Amiga could do the same rich music along with the player
RM> fighting
RM> sounds. Rent SuperStarWars or ActRaiser and then tell me who has better
RM> sound.
RM> BTW, connect the super-nintendo using the stereo cable to a stereo too.
RM> It is way better than the Amiga sound...
RM> |>
RM> |> -- Gerald
Well, I'll admit the SNES can play sound effects AND music better than the
Amiga, but I believe that the actual music and sound itself is better on the
Amiga. I have owned a Genesis (and many other systems, my friend has the SUPER
NES...) and all, but Amiga music just seems better. Have you heard BEAST I's
music (with the flute) in the beginning, or II's for that matter? How about
Turrican's? Or the countless mods out there (Like Klisje Paa Klisje (SP?) and
Rain)? They sound a LOT better than any SNES or Genesis song I have ever
heard. I actually WANT to listen to them, and enjoy the music, rather than
find it as a background filler or even an annoyance. Just my opinion, but I
think a lot of people share it. ???
--- Via UCI v1.32 (C-Net Amiga)
Best Games EVER? : Umoria 5.4, Star Control, Archon, Archon II, Warlords.
(In that order) ...
jne...@Cnet1023.cts.com (Jason Nellis)
Jason Nellis
GB> In article <C9r5t...@visix.com>, Brett Bourbin (br...@visix.com) wrote:
GB> : To give you a little background from the SEGA (where my experience is)
GB> you can
GB> : have 80 sprites on the screen at a time (each from 8x8 to 32x32), the
GB> Amiga
GB> : can 8. The SEGA sprites can have 16 colors in them, on the Amiga to do
GB> this,
GB> : you drop your sprite count to 4.
GB> Well, technically, that's 8 per raster line on the Amiga. Remember, you
GB> can reuse sprites.
GB> And as to 3.1 being a disadvantage? Not really. Most games will only
GB> need, and only use, the part that is in ROM. Nothing else.
GB> Greg
GB> --
GB> (: (: (: (: Have you overdosed on smileys today? Why NOT!?! :) :) :) :)
GB> (: BOOPSI (boop see) n. 1. Acronym, "Buy Our Other Products or :)
GB> (: Suffer the Inquisition", spoken while threatening with objects. :)
GB> (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: (: :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) Wubba :)
Hehehe... I guess this guys never heard of BOB's. Or the BLITTER.
You can have all the BOB's you want, and they can be ANY size, and can have as
many colors as the current screen res allows. Slightly better than sprites
and the blitter takes care of 'em for the most part. So, just think of the
Amiga as being able to have a million little space fighters on the screen at
the same time, if anyone really cares. Arcade games need all the sprites for
figures (on consoles), like ships and things. The Amiga just can just use
BOB's, with sprites even. (Sorry, I am not very lucid minded past midnight, so
excuse any confusing sentences.) ;-)
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> On Mon 12-Jul-1993 12:18a, Ricardo Hernandez Muchado wrote:
|> RM> In article <1993Jul8.0...@seas.gwu.edu>, ger...@seas.gwu.edu
|> RM> (Gerald G. Washington) writes:
|> RM> |> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
|> RM> |>
|> RM> |> -- Gerald
|> Well, I'll admit the SNES can play sound effects AND music better than the
|> Amiga, but I believe that the actual music and sound itself is better on the
|> Amiga. I have owned a Genesis (and many other systems, my friend has the SUPER
|> NES...) and all, but Amiga music just seems better. Have you heard BEAST I's
|> music (with the flute) in the beginning, or II's for that matter? How about
|> Turrican's?
I have Turrican I & II. Now, did you know that there's a new version
coming for the S-NES called SUPER-TURRICAN *with* DOLBY SORROUND SOUND?
|> Or the countless mods out there (Like Klisje Paa Klisje (SP?) and
|> Rain)? They sound a LOT better than any SNES or Genesis song I have ever
|> heard. I actually WANT to listen to them, and enjoy the music, rather than
|> find it as a background filler or even an annoyance. Just my opinion, but I
|> think a lot of people share it. ???
|>
Super NES sound is better, they sometimes suffer from memory on the
cartridge, but hear StarWars and ActRaiser, and let me know...
|> --- Via UCI v1.32 (C-Net Amiga)
|>
|> Best Games EVER? : Umoria 5.4, Star Control, Archon, Archon II, Warlords.
|> (In that order) ...
|> jne...@Cnet1023.cts.com (Jason Nellis)
--
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> GB> In article <C9r5t...@visix.com>, Brett Bourbin (br...@visix.com) wrote:
[stuff deleted]
|> You can have all the BOB's you want, and they can be ANY size, and can have as
|> many colors as the current screen res allows. Slightly better than sprites
|> and the blitter takes care of 'em for the most part. So, just think of the
|> Amiga as being able to have a million little space fighters on the screen at
|> the same time, if anyone really cares.
But the problem is that the Amiga's blitter is not inifitively fast.
Sprites are always faster than bobs, and there's a limit on how fast
the blitter can move things around. The Genesis would still be faster
moving it's sprites than an amiga with the bobs.
|> Arcade games need all the sprites for
|> figures (on consoles), like ships and things. The Amiga just can just use
|> BOB's, with sprites even. (Sorry, I am not very lucid minded past midnight, so
|> excuse any confusing sentences.) ;-)
|>
|> --- Via UCI v1.32 (C-Net Amiga)
|>
|> Best Games EVER? : Umoria 5.4, Star Control, Archon, Archon II, Warlords.
|> (In that order) ...
|> jne...@Cnet1023.cts.com (Jason Nellis)
--
Michael Robert Bromery
Give me 90K of music mem and I could easily kill the NES music.
-- Mike Bromery.
Email: dave...@wam.umd.edu
Chad Freeman
: >In article <C9s19...@genesis.nred.ma.us>, nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
: >|> expensive..and the Jag...er..uummm..actually, the Jag may present some
: >|> real competition since it's being distributed and manufactured by IBM.
: Atari is farming out manufacturing to a 3rd party (in this case IBM,)
: but I've heard nothing about IBM getting into distribution/promotion.
: It's not the sort of thing they'd be interested in, methinks.
Actually, IBM will be distributing as well, at least according to
NewsBytes.
: --
: ========================================================================
: David Stuve | InterNet: dst...@storm.cs.orst.edu
: Software Engineer |
: MindWorks -- Advanced Amiga Software | Crescat Scientia Vita Excolatur
--
Chad Freeman mail: cjf...@pitt.edu
Neat toys I own include: Amiga 2000, Atari Lynx II, Super NES, AD&D stuff
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Life finds a way." -Jurassic Park by Michael Crichton
Ralph Barbagallo
: In article <C9s19...@genesis.nred.ma.us>, nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
: |>
: |> being compatible with this new machine? Commodore finally has done it.
: |> The perfect game machine. Sure 3DO and the Jaguar are better...but 3D0 is
: |> real competition since it's being distributed and manufactured by IBM.
:
: I read some news here.... IBM will distribute it! It will be virtually
: everywhere! HEY! Why doesn't C= make the same deal with IBM? They sure
: can!
I'm sure IBM wouldn't want to put out two products that directly
compete with eachother for the same market.
Ralph Barbagallo
: ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
: >
: > I see that you didn't mention the SuperNes... The Super Nes has 8 voice
: >8-bit stereo sound with a DSP...
:
: Is this true? I'm borrowing by brother's SNES now while he's out of town,
: just to play Street Fighter II. :-) The SNES doesn't sound nearly as good
: as my old A500. Are they not using the 8 voices or the DSP?
You don't need the DSP to get the 8 voices. The DSP is in a few
games (i.e. Pilotwings, Mario Kart, etc.) as a math-co.. It does have
8 voices in hardware...but that's not to say that every company uses it.
Check out Actraizer..it has great sound.
Alexander P Durham
Super Star Wars. I have seen and heard Super Star Wars. Let me say
that I am not impressed. I have heard many a mod which sounds as good
or better, and believe me the live performances of the sound, even
on tape instead of CD, sound so much better than the lame Synthesizer
sounds and in general bad performance of the Virtual Musicians doing
the soundtrack for Super Star Wars. My high school band could do better.
jeremy
a...@math.ufl.edu
Psigon Matrix....do you DOUBT us??
>Ricardo Hernandez Muchado (ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com) wrote:
>: In article <C9s19...@genesis.nred.ma.us>, nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
>: |>
>: |> Did Peter Kittel mention anything about CDROMS for the A4000/1200
>: |> being compatible with this new machine? Commodore finally has done it.
>: |> The perfect game machine. Sure 3DO and the Jaguar are better...but 3D0 is
>: |> expensive..and the Jag...er..uummm..actually, the Jag may present some
>: |> real competition since it's being distributed and manufactured by IBM.
>:
>: Wich is why the Jaguar scares me... I thought it was vaporware, until
>: I read some news here.... IBM will distribute it! It will be virtually
>: everywhere! HEY! Why doesn't C= make the same deal with IBM? They sure
>: can!
>
> I'm sure IBM wouldn't want to put out two products that directly
>compete with eachother for the same market.
>--
I really don't think IBM cares. If they get their money for the deal they
could care less if both CBM and Atari go belly up. I could be a good move
for CBM to get a similar deal, but it won't happen.
--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=-==-=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=--=-
J. Martin | DiE Kilrathi Scum!! -- Eat Plasma FuRRBall!!
Mar...@Tigger.StCloud.MSUS.Edu |Waiting for: CD-ROM, MPEG, DSP and AAA oh my!!
a.k.a. IRC: ShadowLrd |----------------------------------------------
In Possession of an A4000/040! |Software--Try It, Buy It, Beat It, Repeat It..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> Ricardo Hernandez Muchado (ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com) wrote:
|> : In article <C9s19...@genesis.nred.ma.us>, nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
|> : |>
|> : |> Did Peter Kittel mention anything about CDROMS for the A4000/1200
|> : |> being compatible with this new machine? Commodore finally has done it.
|> : |> The perfect game machine. Sure 3DO and the Jaguar are better...but 3D0 is
|> : |> expensive..and the Jag...er..uummm..actually, the Jag may present some
|> : |> real competition since it's being distributed and manufactured by IBM.
|> :
|> : Wich is why the Jaguar scares me... I thought it was vaporware, until
|> : I read some news here.... IBM will distribute it! It will be virtually
|> : everywhere! HEY! Why doesn't C= make the same deal with IBM? They sure
|> : can!
|>
|> I'm sure IBM wouldn't want to put out two products that directly
|> compete with eachother for the same market.
For IBM it won't be a problem: ATARI is just an IBM customer for
manufacturing the Jaguar. That's about it. If C= get's IBM to
manufacturing, say A1200's or the CD-32, that's more money to IBM, so
I guess they won't mind :-)
|> --
|> Ralph A.Barbagallo III_Only AMIGA Makes it Possible!_nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us
|> [ Amiga 4000/030, Amiga 500, Commodore 64, Atari 800XL, Atari 2600, 7800, ]
|> [ Lynx, Sega Master System, Genesis, Game Gear, NES, SNES, Game Boy, NEO GEO]
|> [ TurboGrafx-16/CDROM, Odyssey 500, ColecoVision, Vectrex-BOB LOVES YOU !!!!]
--
Ralph Barbagallo
The SEGA CD does not add a second sound chip to the Genesis..it
just allows CD background sound/music to be played over the standard
Genesis internal sounds.
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|>
|> Give me 90K of music mem and I could easily kill the NES music.
The NES I understand... the SuperNes is another story....
|>
|> -- Mike Bromery.
|> Email: dave...@wam.umd.edu
|>
--
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
Well, were are you hearing? Through a Commodore 1084S monitor or
through a Sony Stereo? If you are going to tell me that you are not
impressed by the music on level 3 (when you reach the Sand Crawler)
I don't know what else impresses you on the Amiga.
I ask for people to go and hear it (Super Star Wars) and make a vote.
The music from the title is darn cool (when you just start the Game,
and the STAR WARS logo goes out in MODE 7 scaling).
|>
|> jeremy
|> a...@math.ufl.edu
Gerald G. Washington
>Gerald G. Washington (ger...@seas.gwu.edu) wrote:
>: ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
>: >
>: > I see that you didn't mention the SuperNes... The Super Nes has 8 voice
>: >8-bit stereo sound with a DSP...
>:
>: Is this true? I'm borrowing by brother's SNES now while he's out of town,
>: just to play Street Fighter II. :-) The SNES doesn't sound nearly as good
>: as my old A500. Are they not using the 8 voices or the DSP?
>
> You don't need the DSP to get the 8 voices. The DSP is in a few
>games (i.e. Pilotwings, Mario Kart, etc.) as a math-co.. It does have
>8 voices in hardware...but that's not to say that every company uses it.
>Check out Actraizer..it has great sound.
Hmm, that's odd. I wonder why so few games use the SNES's sound potential.
I had the SNES hooked up to the same stereo speakers I use for my Amiga, and
the SNES didn't sound nearly as good. At my other brother's house, he uses
the SNES on his stereo TV all the time--still not up to the Amiga's 4-voice
sound. Hmm...
-- Gerald
Ralph Barbagallo
: In article <C9s19...@genesis.nred.ma.us> nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
: >
: > Did Peter Kittel mention anything about CDROMS for the A4000/1200
: > being compatible with this new machine? Commodore finally has done it.
: > The perfect game machine. Sure 3DO and the Jaguar are better...but 3D0 is
: > expensive..and the Jag...er..uummm..actually, the Jag may present some
: > real competition since it's being distributed and manufactured by IBM.
: > Hmm..well the price is right... I hope in the US they can release it for
: > $350..it should be possible. It will STOMP ALL OVER the Genesis CD and
: > the super CHEESY Duo. Go Commodore!!!! Promote it this time!!!
:
: To my knowledge it will not be released in the USA!
They BETTER release it in the USA. They will be making a big
mistake. I remember right up until a month or so before release of the A600
in the U.S. my local dealers were saying it as a UK only machine...so
HOPEFULLY us 'Amiga Cowboys' (ever read AmigaShopper? :) ) will get the
CD32...
Michael Robert Bromery
No. I mean both. It was the Super NES you mentioned in the first place.
-- Mike
Email: dave...@wam.umd.edu
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
Well, what games have you heard? You know, the Amiga also has
games with pretty lame sounds... Take into account the space in
the Cartridge too. Again, have you heard Actraizer? SuperStarWars?
Zelda III?
|>
|> -- Gerald
Kenneth Churchill
--
+------------------------------------+ I am: Ken Churchill
| Save energy, be apathetic. | chur...@plains.NoDak.edu
| Reality is for people who | ud19...@vm1.NoDak.edu
| lack imagination. | chur...@cs.und.nodak.edu
| Only Amiga makes it possible... |
+------------------------------------+
Jim Perkowski
: David Stuve (dst...@storm.cs.orst.edu) wrote:
: : >In article <C9s19...@genesis.nred.ma.us>, nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
: : >|> expensive..and the Jag...er..uummm..actually, the Jag may present some
: : >|> real competition since it's being distributed and manufactured by IBM.
: : Atari is farming out manufacturing to a 3rd party (in this case IBM,)
: : but I've heard nothing about IBM getting into distribution/promotion.
: : It's not the sort of thing they'd be interested in, methinks.
: Actually, IBM will be distributing as well, at least according to
: NewsBytes.
Sounds like the Jaguar will be a real magic machine. By I think the real magic will
be bringing it to the public a $200.
Jim Perkowski
--
____________________________________
kentcomm!jper...@aldhfn.akron.oh.us
Gregory G Greene
'> They BETTER release it in the USA. They will be making a big
'>mistake. I remember right up until a month or so before release of the A600
'>in the U.S. my local dealers were saying it as a UK only machine...so
'>HOPEFULLY us 'Amiga Cowboys' (ever read AmigaShopper? :) ) will get the
'>CD32...
Whats the difference?
1. Commodore releases it with their usual complete lack of marketing and
advertising along with a very limited distribution channel.
2. Commodore doesn't release it.
Both results are failures.
Greg Greene
g...@kepler.unh.edu
Ralph Barbagallo
:
: Give me 90K of music mem and I could easily kill the NES music.
:
: -- Mike Bromery.
Yes, but could you easily kill SNES music....? :)
Clayton Donley
>In article <1993Jul8.0...@seas.gwu.edu>, ger...@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald
G.
>Washington) writes:
>|> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
>|> >
>|> > I see that you didn't mention the SuperNes... The Super Nes has 8 voice
>|> >8-bit stereo sound with a DSP...
>|>
>|> Is this true? I'm borrowing by brother's SNES now while he's out of town,
>|> just to play Street Fighter II. :-) The SNES doesn't sound nearly as good
>|> as my old A500. Are they not using the 8 voices or the DSP?
>
> Hear STFII with for example the Chun-LI scene and fight. There's no easy
>way how the Amiga could do the same rich music along with the player fighting
>sounds. Rent SuperStarWars or ActRaiser and then tell me who has better
>sound.
>
> BTW, connect the super-nintendo using the stereo cable to a stereo too.
>
> It is way better than the Amiga sound...
>
>
>|>
>|> -- Gerald
>
>--
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Raist A1200/CSA '12 Gauge' 030/882 @ 50Mhz, 16 megs Fast Ram, 200 meg HD
> // >>> I LOVE IT <<<< My comments are my own, not of my employer
> \X/ 256,000 + colors, 24-bit palette Real 3D V2, Image FX, Scala MM210
>*don't e-mail me* -> I don't have a valid address nor can I send e-mail
>
>
This guy must be retarded..Feh, as if you cant connect an Amiga to a stereo? My
younger brother has a Super NES, and has so many carts for it that he could
re-tile the bathroom with em.. And the SNES's sound is NOWHERE NEAR the quality
of the Amiga, trust me on this one.
Essentially the only thing that seperates an SNES from a normal 8-bit Nintendo
system is that you have more colors available. The screen resolution of the
SNES is virtually the SAME as the old 8-bit NES! (the SNES has like 2 pixels
more horizontally, just so they can say it has "better resolution" than the old
NES systems..ha!) And we all know that sound on the NES is about on par with
the old Commodore 64.
Funny, I used to think UseNet was for people with intelligence..
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| UUCP: cdo...@amiganet.chi.il.us -- Only AMIGA Makes It Possible! |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| The guy who started the alt.slack Barney-Bashing phonomena. :) |
| I love you....You love meeee, It's called beastiality... |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
|>
|> >In article <1993Jul8.0...@seas.gwu.edu>, ger...@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald
|> G.
|> >Washington) writes:
|> >|> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
[stuff deleted]
|> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|> >Raist A1200/CSA '12 Gauge' 030/882 @ 50Mhz, 16 megs Fast Ram, 200 meg HD
|> > // >>> I LOVE IT <<<< My comments are my own, not of my employer
|> > \X/ 256,000 + colors, 24-bit palette Real 3D V2, Image FX, Scala MM210
|> >*don't e-mail me* -> I don't have a valid address nor can I send e-mail
|> >
|>
|> This guy must be retarded..Feh, as if you cant connect an Amiga to a stereo?
Retarded eh? Did I say that you couldn't connect an Amiga to a stereo?
|> My
|> younger brother has a Super NES, and has so many carts for it that he could
|> re-tile the bathroom with em.. And the SNES's sound is NOWHERE NEAR the quality
|> of the Amiga, trust me on this one.
I would invite everyone to check out nice WELL-DONE SuperNes Games and
tell me if the sound is awesome or what.
|>
|> Essentially the only thing that seperates an SNES from a normal 8-bit Nintendo
|> system is that you have more colors available.
|> The screen resolution of the
|> SNES is virtually the SAME as the old 8-bit NES! (the SNES has like 2 pixels
|> more horizontally, just so they can say it has "better resolution" than the old
|> NES systems..ha!) And we all know that sound on the NES is about on par with
|> the old Commodore 64.
Ah, I see who's retarded now... LISTEN KID, The SUPER-NES is leaps and
bounds BEYOND the normal nes.. Some specs might help you sort it out:
NES SuperNES
color Palette around 52 32,768 colors
Avail colors
at the same time 52(?) 256 colors
without tricks
Max resolution 320x200 544x4.. <- is this the same kid? One game
that uses this resolution
is 4x runner I think its called.
# of Sprites less than 8 128 sprites
Zoom and
rotation
capabilities no YES
Sound
# of voices 3-4 (?) 8 voice, stereo
#of bits 8 8 <- in only this they are the same (NES, SNES)
Sony DSP NO Yes, helps with math processing (PilotWings
uses it) and for sound, for example, in Super
Mario, Nintendo didn't need to digitize an
echo effect for when Mario goes inside a cave.
The DSP in real-time adds the echo effect
to the sound. THIS SAVES MEMORY.
CPU 6502-alike 3.59Mhz 65816 (the '16 bit' 6502)
-----------------------
So it clearly shows that you don't know what your are talking about.
I even really doubt that your younger brother has an SNES or you just
haven't taken a look at it.
Don't say lies. Even the Bandito a long time ago said that the SNES
has better hardware for games than the Amiga (non-AA machines), and that
is sounds was better.
I don't know what's up with some Amiga users... I like the Amiga 'cause
it has some technological cool stuff, but guys, if there's something
else that comes around that is better, at least admit it!
|>
|> Funny, I used to think UseNet was for people with intelligence..
Tsk tsk, you are a vivid example that UseNet is not.
|>
|> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|> | UUCP: cdo...@amiganet.chi.il.us -- Only AMIGA Makes It Possible! |
|> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|> | The guy who started the alt.slack Barney-Bashing phonomena. :) |
|> | I love you....You love meeee, It's called beastiality... |
|> +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
--
Ralph Barbagallo
I think the reason why SNES games have poor sound is because they
have very little memory to do the sound in.
Excuse me?
> Hehehe... I guess this guys never heard of BOB's. Or the BLITTER.
with reusing sprites you don't have to waste precious blitter time
on them. The point is you can squeeze more effects out of the Amiga
with them than without them.
Phil
Ralph Barbagallo
My only problem with the Jag is that the CD is sold seperate. That
way there will be a seperation of the market. Jags...and then a smaller
amount of Jags with CDs... therefore they'll have to split production
between CDs and carts... and how big is a cart going to be if they want to
but 24 bit pics in it?! 1 24 bit pic takes up like a Megabyte, right?
That's the size of the average console game today! (ahhh...I remember when
2 Megabits was a big deal... then 4... then 8 was the greatest thing since
sliced bread...now 16 looks like it will quickly become the norm with 20-24
being the outer edge... for NOW)
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|>
|> I think the reason why SNES games have poor sound is because they
|> have very little memory to do the sound in.
And not all of them anyway... like I say :-|
|> Ralph A.Barbagallo III_Only AMIGA Makes it Possible!_nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|>
|> My only problem with the Jag is that the CD is sold seperate. That
|> way there will be a seperation of the market. Jags...and then a smaller
|> amount of Jags with CDs... therefore they'll have to split production
|> between CDs and carts... and how big is a cart going to be if they want to
|> but 24 bit pics in it?! 1 24 bit pic takes up like a Megabyte, right?
|> That's the size of the average console game today! (ahhh...I remember when
|> 2 Megabits was a big deal... then 4... then 8 was the greatest thing since
|> sliced bread...now 16 looks like it will quickly become the norm with 20-24
|> being the outer edge... for NOW)
Street Fighter: Turbo, for the SuperNes is going to be 20 megabits (2.5 megs
ROM). THIS WOULD BE *THE GAME* :-) I read they improved the animation
frames, so know it should look more like the arcade more than ever, plus
added 10% speed (like the Turbo arcade version). Also you can choose to
play with the Champion edition or Turbo edition... cool eh?
Price: $90 US dollars (OUCH!) and available supposedly on August 14, 1993
at a software etc. store here.... I'll get my copy soon! :-)
|> --
|> Ralph A.Barbagallo III_Only AMIGA Makes it Possible!_nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us
|> [ Amiga 4000/030, Amiga 500, Commodore 64, Atari 800XL, Atari 2600, 7800, ]
|> [ Lynx, Sega Master System, Genesis, Game Gear, NES, SNES, Game Boy, NEO GEO]
|> [ TurboGrafx-16/CDROM, Odyssey 500, ColecoVision, Vectrex-BOB LOVES YOU !!!!]
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raist A1200/CSA '12 Gauge' 030/882 @ 50Mhz, 16 megs Fast Ram, 200 meg HD
// >>> I LOVE IT <<<< My comments are my own, not of my employer
\X/ 256,000 + colors, 24-bit palette Real 3D V2, Image FX, Scala MM210
>>> New internet address: ra...@vnet.ibm.com <<<<
David Stuve
> Street Fighter: Turbo, for the SuperNes is going to be 20 megabits (2.5 megs
>ROM). THIS WOULD BE *THE GAME* :-) I read they improved the animation
> Price: $90 US dollars (OUCH!) and available supposedly on August 14, 1993
>at a software etc. store here.... I'll get my copy soon! :-)
You're crazy. 90 bucks for a game? You could rent 30+ games for that
price, or buy 3-4 Amiga games :-)
-David
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> In article <1993Jul19.0...@rchland.ibm.com> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
|> > Street Fighter: Turbo, for the SuperNes is going to be 20 megabits (2.5 megs
|> >ROM). THIS WOULD BE *THE GAME* :-) I read they improved the animation
|>
|> > Price: $90 US dollars (OUCH!) and available supposedly on August 14, 1993
|> >at a software etc. store here.... I'll get my copy soon! :-)
|>
|> You're crazy. 90 bucks for a game? You could rent 30+ games for that
|> price, or buy 3-4 Amiga games :-)
Ah, but this is *THE* game... :-) Thinking about having this
nearly identical version to the arcade at home is just too exciting! :-)
In software etc., the waiting list is already about 15 people, and
increasing... go figure...
|>
|> -David
|>
|>
|> --
|> ========================================================================
|> David Stuve | InterNet: dst...@storm.cs.orst.edu
|> Software Engineer |
|> MindWorks -- Advanced Amiga Software | Crescat Scientia Vita Excolatur
--
Ogawa / Taro Stephen (ISE)
>Amiga, but I believe that the actual music and sound itself is better on the
Yes - most of it's music sounds fairly electronic. Actraiser was good,
Super Mario World had a good composer, and starwars they at least got the
notes right. But nothing has yet compared to the intro on powermonger -
The violin part fooled me for about 20 seconds - it sounded so real.
>Amiga. I have owned a Genesis (and many other systems, my friend has the SUPER
>NES...) and all, but Amiga music just seems better. Have you heard BEAST I's
>music (with the flute) in the beginning, or II's for that matter? How about
Compare the Genesis music of SOTB with the Ami, and the Ami comes way out
on top. Not to mention the graphics are so much lusher.
>Turrican's? Or the countless mods out there (Like Klisje Paa Klisje (SP?) and
>Rain)? They sound a LOT better than any SNES or Genesis song I have ever
SNES music is generally designed to be a lot catchier than Amiga music,
tho SNES lemmings music was not quite as good.
>heard. I actually WANT to listen to them, and enjoy the music, rather than
>find it as a background filler or even an annoyance. Just my opinion, but I
>think a lot of people share it. ???
>Best Games EVER? : Umoria 5.4, Star Control, Archon, Archon II, Warlords.
>(In that order) ...
Best Games EVER? : Angband 1.2,Head Over Heels,Powermonger,Syndicate,Nethack
(No particular order)
> jne...@Cnet1023.cts.com (Jason Nellis)
Taro.
David Stuve
>In article <22cu4a...@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU>, dst...@storm.cs.orst.edu (David Stuve) writes:
>|> In article <1993Jul19.0...@rchland.ibm.com> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
>|> > Street Fighter: Turbo, for the SuperNes is going to be 20 megabits (2.5 megs
>|>
>|> price, or buy 3-4 Amiga games :-)
>
>increasing... go figure...
What about all those pirates' complaints that games are _too_ expensive
at $30 and $40? If people are willing to stand in line for $90 games,
I believe I'm in the wrong line of business.
Ralph Barbagallo
:
: Whats the difference?
: advertising along with a very limited distribution channel.
: 2. Commodore doesn't release it.
:
: Both results are failures.
: Greg Greene
Well maybe...just MAYBE they'll FINALLY learn from their mistakes
this time... but then again, probably not.
I can't belive CDTV authoring systems still go for $5000...
David Stuve
> I can't belive CDTV authoring systems still go for $5000...
All you need to write CDTV software is an Amiga, and probably a
good sized hard-drive. There is no $5000 cost. Anyone can do
it, if they have a good idea...
In fact, more people should do it! It's not easy, but it's cheap...
Kent.Dalton
|>
|> > Street Fighter: Turbo, for the SuperNes is going to be 20 megabits
|> > (2.5 megs ROM). THIS WOULD BE *THE GAME* :-) I read they improved
|> > the animation. Price: $90 US dollars (OUCH!) and available supposedly
|> > on August 14, 1993
|> >at a software etc. store here.... I'll get my copy soon! :-)
|>
|> You're crazy. 90 bucks for a game? You could rent 30+ games for that
|> price, or buy 3-4 Amiga games :-)
Ricardo> Ah, but this is *THE* game... :-)
Apparently you've confused Street Fighter II Turbo with Mortal Kombat.
This is easy to do as they are both Fighting games.
;-)
KD - Still waiting for the home version of MK.
--
/**************************************************************************/
/* Kent Dalton * EMail: Kent....@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM */
/* NCR Microelectronics * Phone: (303) 223-5100 X-319 */
/* 2001 Danfield Ct. MS470A * FAX: (303) 226-9556 */
/* Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 * */
/**************************************************************************/
I'm reporting for duty as a modern person. I want to do
the Latin Hustle now!
Jason Nellis
RM> In article <CADnG...@genesis.nred.ma.us>, nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us
RM> (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
RM> |>
RM> |> My only problem with the Jag is that the CD is sold seperate. That
RM> |> way there will be a seperation of the market. Jags...and then a
RM> smaller
RM> |> amount of Jags with CDs... therefore they'll have to split production
RM> |> between CDs and carts... and how big is a cart going to be if they want
RM> to
RM> |> but 24 bit pics in it?! 1 24 bit pic takes up like a Megabyte, right?
RM> |> That's the size of the average console game today! (ahhh...I remember
RM> when
RM> |> 2 Megabits was a big deal... then 4... then 8 was the greatest thing
RM> since
RM> |> sliced bread...now 16 looks like it will quickly become the norm with
RM> 20-24
RM> |> being the outer edge... for NOW)
RM> Street Fighter: Turbo, for the SuperNes is going to be 20 megabits (2.5
RM> megs
RM> ROM). THIS WOULD BE *THE GAME* :-) I read they improved the animation
RM> frames, so know it should look more like the arcade more than ever, plus
RM> added 10% speed (like the Turbo arcade version). Also you can choose to
RM> play with the Champion edition or Turbo edition... cool eh?
RM> Price: $90 US dollars (OUCH!) and available supposedly on August 14,
RM> 1993
RM> at a software etc. store here.... I'll get my copy soon! :-)
RM> |> --
RM> |> Ralph A.Barbagallo III_Only AMIGA Makes it
RM> Possible!_nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us
RM> |> [ Amiga 4000/030, Amiga 500, Commodore 64, Atari 800XL, Atari 2600,
RM> 7800, ]
RM> |> [ Lynx, Sega Master System, Genesis, Game Gear, NES, SNES, Game Boy,
RM> NEO GEO]
RM> |> [ TurboGrafx-16/CDROM, Odyssey 500, ColecoVision, Vectrex-BOB LOVES
RM> YOU !!!!]
RM> --
RM> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
RM> Raist A1200/CSA '12 Gauge' 030/882 @ 50Mhz, 16 megs Fast Ram, 200 meg HD
RM> // >>> I LOVE IT <<<< My comments are my own, not of my employer
RM> \X/ 256,000 + colors, 24-bit palette Real 3D V2, Image FX, Scala
RM> MM210
RM> >>> New internet address: ra...@vnet.ibm.com <<<<
RM>
RM>
Geez. I'm probably going to buy a SNES JUST for that game! I have wasted
about a thousand quarters already in the arcade on Hyper Fighting Edition. And
I thought I would never buy a console again, ah well!
--- Via UCI v1.32 (C-Net Amiga)
Best Games EVER? : Umoria 5.4, Star Control, Archon, Archon II, Warlords.
(In that order) ...
jne...@Cnet1023.cts.com (Jason Nellis)
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> In article <1993Jul19.0...@rchland.ibm.com> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
|> >In article <22cu4a...@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU>, dst...@storm.cs.orst.edu (David Stuve) writes:
|> >|> In article <1993Jul19.0...@rchland.ibm.com> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
|> >|> > Street Fighter: Turbo, for the SuperNes is going to be 20 megabits (2.5 megs
|> >|> > Price: $90 US dollars (OUCH!) and available supposedly on August 14, 1993
|> >|>
|> >|> You're crazy. 90 bucks for a game? You could rent 30+ games for that
|> >|> price, or buy 3-4 Amiga games :-)
|> >
|> > In software etc., the waiting list is already about 15 people, and
|> >increasing... go figure...
|>
|> What about all those pirates' complaints that games are _too_ expensive
|> at $30 and $40? If people are willing to stand in line for $90 games,
|> I believe I'm in the wrong line of business.
Yep :-)
Now, you have to make a *good* game. Hey, consider
CD-32!
Pirates will complain about everything + if you take a look at
how much effort they put on some SNES games, I can understand why
it is more expensive. Now, yes, I agree that they are overpriced
too, but I'll be willing to pay $35 for an SNES game without complaining
(if the game is good ;-) ).
|> -David
|>
|> --
|> ========================================================================
|> David Stuve | InterNet: dst...@storm.cs.orst.edu
|> Software Engineer |
|> MindWorks -- Advanced Amiga Software | Crescat Scientia Vita Excolatur
--
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> On Tue 20-Jul-1993 1:20a, Ricardo Hernandez Muchado wrote:
|> RM> In article <CADnG...@genesis.nred.ma.us>, nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us
|> RM> (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
[stuff deleted]
|> Geez. I'm probably going to buy a SNES JUST for that game! I have wasted
|> about a thousand quarters already in the arcade on Hyper Fighting Edition. And
|> I thought I would never buy a console again, ah well!
If they only did it for CD32.... CD32 would sell big time, but... :-(
Well, I got a SuperNes too! I admit it, and the game is darn cool!
(SFII).
|>
|> --- Via UCI v1.32 (C-Net Amiga)
|>
|> Best Games EVER? : Umoria 5.4, Star Control, Archon, Archon II, Warlords.
|> (In that order) ...
|> jne...@Cnet1023.cts.com (Jason Nellis)
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raist A1200/CSA '12 Gauge' 030/882 @ 50Mhz, 16 megs Fast Ram, 200 meg HD
// >>> I LOVE IT <<<< My comments are my own, not of my employer
Michael Nielsen
>In article <CAELK...@genesis.nred.ma.us> nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
>> I can't belive CDTV authoring systems still go for $5000...
>
>All you need to write CDTV software is an Amiga, and probably a
>good sized hard-drive. There is no $5000 cost. Anyone can do
>it, if they have a good idea...
>
>In fact, more people should do it! It's not easy, but it's cheap...
If I may ask --- How?
mike
--
<------------------------------------------------------------------------
mich...@wench.ece.jcu.edu.au Michael Nielsen @ 1993
ce...@groper.jcu.edu.au Disclamer :- I'm Innocent
Ralph Barbagallo
: In article <CAELK...@genesis.nred.ma.us> nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
: > I can't belive CDTV authoring systems still go for $5000...
:
: All you need to write CDTV software is an Amiga, and probably a
: good sized hard-drive. There is no $5000 cost. Anyone can do
: it, if they have a good idea...
:
: In fact, more people should do it! It's not easy, but it's cheap...
Well...I was looking in AC's Guide to the Amiga (pick it up, it
lists EVERYTHING about the amiga... software, hardware etc... mostly US
companies, but a lot of overseas stuff too) in the CDTV section and there
was this authoring software for the CDTV that ran about $5000...I belive
it was a british company... was about 1900 pounds or something like that.
And that was with NO hardware...
Question...if you were making a CD program for CDTV, how would you
get the program to play different tracks on the CD at different points?
Could the mastering place do that for you if you gave them the DATs?
If I had a WORM drive, could I burn CDTV discs as tests? My friend has a
WORM on his IBM, I could just test programs out with that...
--
Ralph A.Barbagallo III_Only AMIGA Makes it Possible!_nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us
[ Amiga 4000/030, Amiga 500, Commodore 64, Atari 800XL, Atari 2600, 7800, ]
[ Lynx, Sega Master System, Genesis, Game Gear, NES, SNES, Game Boy, NEO GEO]
[ TurboGrafx-16/CDROM, Odyssey 500, ColecoVision, Vectrex-BOB LOVES YOU !!!!]
David Stuve
>In article <22g1je...@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> dst...@storm.cs.orst.edu (David Stuve) writes:
>>All you need to write CDTV software is an Amiga, and probably a
>>good sized hard-drive. There is no $5000 cost. Anyone can do
>>it, if they have a good idea...
>>
>>In fact, more people should do it! It's not easy, but it's cheap...
>
> If I may ask --- How?
Er, how what? How to make an Amiga CD-Rom? How to program the CDTV?
Amiga CD-Rom is fairly easy. Fill up a good sized hard drive with
your program and all of its data (graphics, sound, whatever...) and
have a cd-rom company put it in cd-rom format and press some discs.
Very simplified, but the essential idea.
Glenn Doiron
> In article <cdonle...@amiganet.chi.il.us>, cdo...@amiganet.chi.il.us (Clayton Donley) writes:
> |> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
> |>
> |> >In article <1993Jul8.0...@seas.gwu.edu>, ger...@seas.gwu.edu (Gerald
> |> G.
> |> >Washington) writes:
> |> >|> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
>
> [stuff deleted]
> |> younger brother has a Super NES, and has so many carts for it that he could
> |> re-tile the bathroom with em.. And the SNES's sound is NOWHERE NEAR the quality
> |> of the Amiga, trust me on this one.
>
> I would invite everyone to check out nice WELL-DONE SuperNes Games and
> tell me if the sound is awesome or what.
There is inferior software on every platform. It's simply a matter of the
software house doing the game. The only really, really good music I've
heard from a SuperNES so far has been from Final Fantasy 2. (BTW was I the
only one who found the music in Super Turrican, ah, disappointing?)
> |>
> |> Essentially the only thing that seperates an SNES from a normal 8-bit Nintendo
> |> system is that you have more colors available.
> |> The screen resolution of the
> |> SNES is virtually the SAME as the old 8-bit NES! (the SNES has like 2 pixels
> |> more horizontally, just so they can say it has "better resolution" than the old
> |> NES systems..ha!) And we all know that sound on the NES is about on par with
> |> the old Commodore 64.
>
> Ah, I see who's retarded now... LISTEN KID, The SUPER-NES is leaps and
> bounds BEYOND the normal nes.. Some specs might help you sort it out:
>
[specs and flames]
>
> Don't say lies. Even the Bandito a long time ago said that the SNES
> has better hardware for games than the Amiga (non-AA machines), and that
> is sounds was better.
Hardware isn't everything. Hardware AND Software is everything (which is
one of the reasons the Neo-Geo is my favorite machine, SNK has all the
really good (arcade) software houses as their licensees...) for instance,
World Heroes 2 improves upon Street Fighter 2 Turbo CE in every way
(reflecting projectiles, counterthrows, more special moves, more characters,
deathmatch modes, near-total elimination of 'cheap shots' [punch then
throw]). Of course, SNK's arcade background shows, and there haven't been
any RPGS for the machine.
Anyways, the point is that there is *very* little 'mature' software for the
SNES, while there has been a lot of 'mature' software for ECS machines in
the past 4-5 years. It will take time before we see cool stuff for AA
machines, too.
[flames deleted]
Glenn Doiron
--
Amiga UUCP+
Origin: uunet.uu.net!starpt.UUCP!doiron (Organization:68K Software Development)
BIX: gdoiron
** Not enough memory to perform requested operation. Add 4 megs and retry.
Ricardo Hernandez Muchado
|> In article <1993Jul16.1...@rchland.ibm.com> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
|> > In article <cdonle...@amiganet.chi.il.us>, cdo...@amiganet.chi.il.us (Clayton Donley) writes:
|> > |> ric...@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Ricardo Hernandez Muchado) writes:
|> > |>
|>
|> There is inferior software on every platform. It's simply a matter of the
|> software house doing the game. The only really, really good music I've
|> heard from a SuperNES so far has been from Final Fantasy 2. (BTW was I the
|> only one who found the music in Super Turrican, ah, disappointing?)
I won't comment on Super Turrican since I haven't hard it yet. Now if you tell
me that the music in Actraiser for example is not awesome, I think you are biased.
From specs alone it seems that the SNES soudn is superior to the Amiga's. Guys,
face it, 1986 technology vs 1991 technology (5 year difference).
|>
|> > |>
|> > |> Essentially the only thing that seperates an SNES from a normal 8-bit Nintendo
|> > |> system is that you have more colors available.
|> > |> The screen resolution of the
|> > |> SNES is virtually the SAME as the old 8-bit NES! (the SNES has like 2 pixels
|> > |> more horizontally, just so they can say it has "better resolution" than the old
|> > |> NES systems..ha!) And we all know that sound on the NES is about on par with
|> > |> the old Commodore 64.
|> >
|> > Ah, I see who's retarded now... LISTEN KID, The SUPER-NES is leaps and
|> > bounds BEYOND the normal nes.. Some specs might help you sort it out:
|> >
|> [specs and flames]
|> >
|> > Don't say lies. Even the Bandito a long time ago said that the SNES
|> > has better hardware for games than the Amiga (non-AA machines), and that
|> > is sounds was better.
|>
|> Hardware isn't everything.
True, which is one of the reason's the SNES kicks butt.
[stuff deleted]
|>
|> Anyways, the point is that there is *very* little 'mature' software for the
|> SNES, while there has been a lot of 'mature' software for ECS machines in
|> the past 4-5 years.
Hmmm...... yes and no. I will agree with you to a certain extent.
|> It will take time before we see cool stuff for AA
|> machines, too.
I agree with you. My point is that the SNES sound and graphics for a
lot of things (related to games) is better than the Amiga's and people won't
admit it.
|>
|> [flames deleted]
|>
|> Glenn Doiron
|> --
|> Amiga UUCP+
|> Origin: uunet.uu.net!starpt.UUCP!doiron (Organization:68K Software Development)
|> BIX: gdoiron
|> ** Not enough memory to perform requested operation. Add 4 megs and retry.
--
Beeblebrox
>Hey Amiga Users out there !
>To stop all senseless dicussions about technical details or pricing of the
>new 'Amiga 32 CD console' , here are pure, confirmed facts.
>They are truely from Dr. Peter Kittel, C= Germany.
>If you don't believe me, take a good look into 'de.comp.sys.amiga.misc'.
>This is where his posting is from.
No offense to Dr. Kittel: but it gets a bit more official than him.. :)
___
mas...@dcs.warwick.ac.uk M.S.A...@csv.warwick.ac.uk
Cutting my head off won't change my mind...
Clique member, elitist and loony. The views expressed are not those of my
employer, basically, because I haven't got one.
Andrew Scott
d> From: dave...@wam.umd.edu (Michael Robert Bromery) Organization:
d> University of Maryland, College Park
d> Give me 90K of music mem and I could easily kill the NES music.
Yes the NES is easy to beat, yet I have seen this drag on for
awhile. As a games designer for the SNES, I have seen many music that
would shit on the Amiga try to produce a sound that sounds like it is
echoed on the Amiga and keep this for every sound effect as well it is a
simple thing yet something that hasn't been done on the AMiga yet.
My strong belief is that the AMiga can not compete with something
that has a better sound procceser in it.
* Origin: Andrew Scott (3:633/351.15)
Ralph Barbagallo
A lot of people will pay $90 for SFII:TCE because it's THE GAME.
I wouldn't pay buckolas like that for just any game...I bought the original
for $74... I wouldn't spend $74 on say... Pinball Fantasies... but SFII
is a huge release... and it's a near-perfect translation of a $3000 arcade
game... so it has lasting playability. There are VERY few games I'd spend
that much money on... but SFII is one of them.
--
Ralph A.Barbagallo III_Only AMIGA Makes it Possible!_nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us
[ Amiga 4000/030, Amiga 500, Commodore 64, Atari 800XL, Atari 2600, 7800, ]
[ Lynx, Sega Master System, Genesis, Game Gear, NES, SNES, Game Boy, NEO GEO]
[ TurboGrafx-16/CDROM, Odyssey 500, ColecoVision, Vectrex-BOB LOVES YOU !!!!]
James Coulter
wrote:
JN> Geez. I'm probably going to buy a SNES JUST for that game! I have
JN> wasted
JN> about a thousand quarters already in the arcade on Hyper Fighting
JN> Edition. And I thought I would never buy a console again, ah well!
I didn't think I'ld considering buying a console, but SFII Turbo may just
do it. Played the original SFII on the SNES, and it was a faithful to the
arcade. I've seen reports that Turbo version is much improved.
I guess software does sell machines.
Hell, I was thinking of buying a NEO GEO for World Heroes 2. Only if the
games didn't cost $199US. :(
-- Via DLG Pro v0.995
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ James D. Coulter FIDO = 1:153/911 +
+ I'm an artist, I know where to draw the line. +
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++