Kickstart ROM file wanted
Joona I Palaste
WHDLoad slave. But I can't play it, because the WHDLoad slave tells me
there is a file "devs:kickstarts/kick34005.a500" missing. Where can I
get this file?
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"I am not very happy acting pleased whenever prominent scientists overmagnify
intellectual enlightenment."
- Anon
Tim
"Joona I Palaste" <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:ca4pm9$em0$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> I just installed Dungeon Master on my hard drive with the help of a
> WHDLoad slave. But I can't play it, because the WHDLoad slave tells me
> there is a file "devs:kickstarts/kick34005.a500" missing. Where can I
> get this file?
>
Drum roll.... ;)
Tim
Joona I Palaste
> Drum roll.... ;)
I don't know what you're insinuating, but I paid good money for both my
original Commodore Amiga 4000 and my original boxed Dungeon Master from
FTL, and I don't intend to be deprived of a gaming experience I feel I
have full legal right to just because the author of the WHDLoad slave
decided to depend on some ROM file with hax0ry connotations.
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"Make money fast! Don't feed it!"
- Anon
colin
Joona I Palaste <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:ca4pm9$em0$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> WHDLoad slave. But I can't play it, because the WHDLoad slave tells me
> there is a file "devs:kickstarts/kick34005.a500" missing. Where can I
> get this file?
>
kickstart; (kick1.3 in this case), and then rename it to kick34005.a500, and
then place it in the devs/kickstarts directory of your A4000. Not sure about
the legality of it though; so long as you don`t use the A500 at the same
time, maybe ok.
Cloanto`s got the amiga forever package that contains kickroms, but they
require a keyfile (included), to be able to use them. So that`s not really
going to help.
And lastly there`s the internet, that has numerous sites with kick13 for
download; but as you know, they`re illegal to download and use.
colin
Supertopcheckerbunny
> kickstart; (kick1.3 in this case), and then rename it to kick34005.a500, and
> then place it in the devs/kickstarts directory of your A4000. Not sure about
> the legality of it though; so long as you don`t use the A500 at the same
> time, maybe ok.
Using the A500 rom at the same time could get Amiga, Inc. into financial
troubles!
John Burns
> Tim <tjl...@crapmail.com> scribbled the following:
> > "Joona I Palaste" <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> > news:ca4pm9$em0$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> >> I just installed Dungeon Master on my hard drive with the help of a
> >> WHDLoad slave. But I can't play it, because the WHDLoad slave tells me
> >> there is a file "devs:kickstarts/kick34005.a500" missing. Where can I
> >> get this file?
>
> > Drum roll.... ;)
>
> I don't know what you're insinuating, but I paid good money for both my
> original Commodore Amiga 4000 and my original boxed Dungeon Master from FTL,
> and I don't intend to be deprived of a gaming experience I feel I have full
> legal right to just because the author of the WHDLoad slave decided to
> depend on some ROM file with hax0ry connotations.
>
You ignore the fact that you have bought a product (DM) which wasn't designed to
run on an A4000. It has nothing to do with the whims of the WHDLoad writer. By
your argument it follows that if you buy a Mac game then you are entitled to the
Mac ROMs. Come on Joona you programme stuff and are pretty intelligent so please
don't insult our intelligence or do yourself such a dis-service with such a
silly argument. That aside why post the request here you know the policy -
you're hardly a newbie.
Tim
"Joona I Palaste" <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:ca4pm9$em0$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
> WHDLoad slave. But I can't play it, because the WHDLoad slave tells me
> there is a file "devs:kickstarts/kick34005.a500" missing. Where can I
> get this file?
You need a standard A500/2000 kickstart ROM. Rename it then get the tool:
skick343.lha from aminet to get the other files.
Tim
Joona I Palaste
First, DM runs fine off the floppies, with no problems. Because of this,
I don't see why it would require a Kickstart file to run off the hard
drive, as it obviously works equally well with Kickstart 3.1. It's the
WHDLoad slave, not the game, that insists on this Kickstart file, it
seems.
Second, I've successfully run plenty more games that refuse to even boot
on my A4000 on WHDLoad. And none of them has insisted on a Kickstart
file.
Because of all this, I think the WHDLoad slave might just as well be
requesting a Mac ROM for an Amiga game, and I think that is annoying.
--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ------------- Finland --------\
\-- http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste --------------------- rules! --------/
"C++. C++ run. Run, ++, run."
- JIPsoft
colin
John Burns <jo...@grizo.free-onlineNOJUNK.co.uk> wrote in message
news:965612414868155...@news.free-online.net...
Don`t you think that you`re being a little over-zealous in your pursuit of
piracy upon the amiga, when you have to attack a mear inquiry by a regular
as to why an original game requires an a500 rom john?
[high-horse]
Nathan
> Joona Palaste wrote:
>>I just installed Dungeon Master on my hard drive with the help of a
>>WHDLoad slave. But I can't play it, because the WHDLoad slave tells me
>>there is a file "devs:kickstarts/kick34005.a500" missing. Where can I
>>get this file?
>
> You need a standard A500/2000 kickstart ROM. Rename it then get
> the tool: skick343.lha from aminet to get the other files.
Standard ROM, eh? Well, *that's* a bit vague (says the person
with a KS1.2 A500, KS1.3 A500, and KS2.04 A2000 in front of him.)
:)
Nathan. (Still finding the varied version-labelling annoying.) ;)
Nathan
[SNIP Joona dissing WHDLoad soft-kicks,
John dissing Joona dissing WHDLoad soft-kicks blah blah etc etc...]
> Don`t you think that you`re being a little over-zealous in your pursuit of
> piracy upon the amiga, when you have to attack a mear inquiry by a regular
> as to why an original game requires an a500 rom john?
While I'm certainly not claiming what you say to be incorrect, I
personally did find it a bit disingenuous the way the hard work of
the WHDLoad crowd has been referred to.
As a long time Amiga owner, I have long been painfully aware of how
often games are too closely tied to a particular generation of Kick-
start, CPU, or ChipSet. I'm quite grateful that it's so easy now
for WHDLoad contributors to fix titles by not having to reverse
engineer code (for every game) to work on all Kickstarts.
As someone who bought the Amiga-Forever pack (and all the Kickstarts
that came with it) though, and hence not really having any legal
concern over soft-kicking whatever kickstart version, my judgement
of the situation is probably a bit biassed.
Nathan. (Feeling very non-confrontational today.) ;)
Hidehiko Ogata
> If you`ve got an A500 laying around, you could make a rom image of it`s
> kickstart; (kick1.3 in this case), and then rename it to kick34005.a500, and
> then place it in the devs/kickstarts directory of your A4000.
The A2000 version apparently works as well; mine does.
> Not sure about
> the legality of it though; so long as you don`t use the A500 at the same
> time, maybe ok.
I have the ROM image on the very A2000 with the 1.3/3.1 ROM switcher,
so it's physically impossible to use both at the same time :).
--
// }{idehiko ()gata "I hope I didn't hurt you too much
\X/ Amiga since '86 when I killed you..." - Elmer Fudd
bekkoame is a classic Japanese candybar.
Tim
"Nathan" <tko...@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message
news:2io8m9F...@uni-berlin.de...
Well I ASSumed the reader will know I meant Kickstart 1.3, but I forgot the
typical education level of some of the readers on this group. :D
Tim
Daniel Miller
wrote:
>I just installed Dungeon Master on my hard drive with the help of a
>WHDLoad slave. But I can't play it, because the WHDLoad slave tells me
>there is a file "devs:kickstarts/kick34005.a500" missing. Where can I
>get this file?
You can image that from an A500/2000 1.3, or download it from the
Internet, or depend on someone to email it to you.
Personally, I think if you purchased a computer and you purchased a
software program then there is nothing morally wrong to use a ROM
image that you acquire from wherever to run your program on your
computer. However laws do not accomodate this. So... it's your call.
If you can't get off the fence then you could try to fool WHDLoad by
imaging the ROM in your A4000, renaming it and plugging it into the
SKICK director after installing all that. You said Dungeon Master
works for you off the floppies so maybe the WHDLoad programmer is
mistaken in thinking that particular ROM is a requirement. You could
also email them and ask them to support your hardware without ROM
images.
Orange
wrote:
>I just installed Dungeon Master on my hard drive with the help of a
>WHDLoad slave. But I can't play it, because the WHDLoad slave tells me
>there is a file "devs:kickstarts/kick34005.a500" missing. Where can I
>get this file?
check your e-mail :)
--
DO the things that people say you cannot
Nathan
> Joona Palaste:
>>I just installed Dungeon Master on my hard drive with the help of a
>>WHDLoad slave. But I can't play it, because the WHDLoad slave tells me
>>there is a file "devs:kickstarts/kick34005.a500" missing. Where can I
>>get this file?
>
> check your e-mail :)
You afraid he won't? ;) ..didn't really need a news post follow up
too did it? Unless, oh wait .. unless you were a *troll*! :) Funny,
I would have thought Joona was quite as capable of using Google as the
rest of us.
Nathan.
Hidehiko Ogata
> You said Dungeon Master
> works for you off the floppies so maybe the WHDLoad programmer is
> mistaken in thinking that particular ROM is a requirement. You could
> also email them and ask them to support your hardware without ROM
> images.
I'd drop the "hax0ry connotations" bit for that... ;)
Anyways, what version of the _game_ do you have, Joona-san? (it should
show up in the game somewhere.)
DM had a long product life, so I suppose there can be quite a few
versions out there; some dependent on KS1.3, others not, perhaps?
John Burns
> John Burns <jo...@grizo.free-onlinenojunk.co.uk> scribbled the following:
> > On 8 Jun 2004 20:04:54 GMT, Joona I Palaste wrote:
[snip]
> >> I don't know what you're insinuating, but I paid good money for both my
> >> original Commodore Amiga 4000 and my original boxed Dungeon Master from FTL,
> >> and I don't intend to be deprived of a gaming experience I feel I have full
> >> legal right to just because the author of the WHDLoad slave decided to
> >> depend on some ROM file with hax0ry connotations.
> >>
> > You ignore the fact that you have bought a product (DM) which wasn't designed to
> > run on an A4000. It has nothing to do with the whims of the WHDLoad writer. By
> > your argument it follows that if you buy a Mac game then you are entitled to the
> > Mac ROMs. Come on Joona you programme stuff and are pretty intelligent so please
> > don't insult our intelligence or do yourself such a dis-service with such a
> > silly argument. That aside why post the request here you know the policy -
> > you're hardly a newbie.
>
> First, DM runs fine off the floppies, with no problems. Because of this, I
> don't see why it would require a Kickstart file to run off the hard drive,
> as it obviously works equally well with Kickstart 3.1. It's the WHDLoad
> slave, not the game, that insists on this Kickstart file, it seems.
> Second, I've successfully run plenty more games that refuse to even boot on
> my A4000 on WHDLoad. And none of them has insisted on a Kickstart file.
> Because of all this, I think the WHDLoad slave might just as well be
> requesting a Mac ROM for an Amiga game, and I think that is annoying.
OK fair enough it runs from floppy, great, but that still doesn't negate the
fact
that it wasn't designed to be run from HD. I know that is annoying but that's
the
way it is. Likewise it doesn't change the fact that you are not entitled to
another
piece of copyright material to make up for the original programmers oversight.
Maybe you would be best to contact the WHDLoad patcher and speak with him -
perhaps he could change the installer to run without a rekick into an earlier
KS.
Then again maybe there are reasons for doing the patch this way - either way
he'll be the one to know.
The true fact of this all is that you have a product (DM) which works as
designed.
The real (by design) gaming experience for DM is therefore to run it from floppy
be that bad or good. Since by your own admission it runs from floppy then your
earlier protestation of being deprived must be erroneous and merely a poor
argument for piracy.
John Burns
>
> John Burns <jo...@grizo.free-onlineNOJUNK.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:965612414868155...@news.free-online.net...
> > On 8 Jun 2004 20:04:54 GMT, Joona I Palaste wrote:
[snip]
> > > >> there is a file "devs:kickstarts/kick34005.a500" missing. Where can I
> > > >> get this file?
> > >
> > > > Drum roll.... ;)
> > > and I don't intend to be deprived of a gaming experience I feel I have
> full
> > > legal right to just because the author of the WHDLoad slave decided to
> > > depend on some ROM file with hax0ry connotations.
[snip]
> Don`t you think that you`re being a little over-zealous in your pursuit of
> piracy upon the amiga, when you have to attack a mear inquiry by a regular
> as to why an original game requires an a500 rom john?
>
> [high-horse]
No I don't and in truth I feel that Joona's request is worse than most as he is
a regular poster and well knows the policy. Anyway your statement is wrong since
Joona wasn't asking "why" but requesting a KS1.3 rom (read back, I haven't
snipped that part). I don't pursue those who pirate Amiga stuff, in fact I don't
care what others do in private. However, it is the policy and well-being of this
NG which I argue for. This can easily be seen by the fact that I don't go to
those groups which accept warez requests to argue against them. Likewise Joona
is lying when he says he is being deprived of his "legal right" to play this
game since he has now admitted that he can play it from floppy.
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
> OK fair enough it runs from floppy, great, but that still doesn't negate the
> fact
> that it wasn't designed to be run from HD. I know that is annoying but that's
> the
> way it is. Likewise it doesn't change the fact that you are not entitled to
> another
> piece of copyright material to make up for the original programmers oversight.
> Maybe you would be best to contact the WHDLoad patcher and speak with him -
> perhaps he could change the installer to run without a rekick into an earlier
> KS.
> Then again maybe there are reasons for doing the patch this way - either way
> he'll be the one to know.
>
> The true fact of this all is that you have a product (DM) which works as
> designed.
> The real (by design) gaming experience for DM is therefore to run it from floppy
>
> be that bad or good. Since by your own admission it runs from floppy then your
> earlier protestation of being deprived must be erroneous and merely a poor
> argument for piracy.
Just two questions:
- can you still buy new Amiga at store?
- what benefit will ROM programmers have if Amiga is bought on i.e. e-bay
or other similar place?
Don't you see that for today buying Amiga just to get kickstart is
pointless and doesn't help anyone?
--
tak...@IRCnet.EFnet, ICQ# 15827691, GG# 113344, TLEN: taked4
EMAIL: 6d3c...@NOsneakemailSPAM.com
(remove CAPITAL letters from email if you want to contact me)
*http://eggwiki.takeda.tk - pomoc w używaniu botów po polsku*
Nathan
> Just two questions:
> - can you still buy new Amiga at store?
> - what benefit will ROM programmers have if Amiga is bought on i.e. e-bay
> or other similar place?
>
> Don't you see that for today buying Amiga just to get kickstart is
> pointless and doesn't help anyone?
*sigh* ..and the same old arguments come up again. The thing is,
that's not the *point* .. pirate all you want, I could care less.
Just don't go trying to do your warez swapping *in* *this* *group*.
You're asking questions that have been asked 20 fecking times here
this year already. Just look in the archives for your answer. And
if ya wanna swap warez on a group, go to one of the alt Amiga groups
that *already* does that.
Nathan. (Yup, arguing the same point yet again .. reminds me of my
job.) :)
PS: You're also forgetting that Cloanto also do that excellent Amiga
Forever package, with more legal kickstarts than you'll probably
need. ..If you weren't gonna get it from a real Amiga, then they
are the ones you're probably cheating out of money.
Kempy
news:E2.O2.lV2lEk...@aqu.candybar.ne.jp:
> Daniel Miller wrote:
>
>> You said Dungeon Master
>> works for you off the floppies so maybe the WHDLoad programmer is
>> mistaken in thinking that particular ROM is a requirement. You could
>> also email them and ask them to support your hardware without ROM
>> images.
>
> I'd drop the "hax0ry connotations" bit for that... ;)
>
> Anyways, what version of the _game_ do you have, Joona-san? (it should
> show up in the game somewhere.)
>
> DM had a long product life, so I suppose there can be quite a few
> versions out there; some dependent on KS1.3, others not, perhaps?
Yup, AFAIR there's DM v 2.0 (in three languages) released by Psygnosis, Especially
for kick 2.0 machines.
-( kempy )-
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
>> Just two questions:
>> - can you still buy new Amiga at store?
>> - what benefit will ROM programmers have if Amiga is bought on i.e. e-bay
>> or other similar place?
>> Don't you see that for today buying Amiga just to get kickstart is
>> pointless and doesn't help anyone?
> *sigh* ..and the same old arguments come up again. The thing is,
> that's not the *point* .. pirate all you want, I could care less.
> Just don't go trying to do your warez swapping *in* *this* *group*.
> You're asking questions that have been asked 20 fecking times here
> this year already. Just look in the archives for your answer. And
> if ya wanna swap warez on a group, go to one of the alt Amiga groups
> that *already* does that.
I don't know what's the situation of Joona, but I DON'T have any alt.*
group that have word "amiga" in it.
Many news servers restrict alt.* groups, only to few, or don't have alt.*
at all.
> Nathan. (Yup, arguing the same point yet again .. reminds me of my
> job.) :)
>
> PS: You're also forgetting that Cloanto also do that excellent Amiga
> Forever package, with more legal kickstarts than you'll probably
> need. ..If you weren't gonna get it from a real Amiga, then they
> are the ones you're probably cheating out of money.
I believe those kickstarts won't work with WHDLoad
John Burns
> On 11 Jun 2004 01:14:59 +0100, John Burns wrote:
>
> > OK fair enough it runs from floppy, great, but that still doesn't negate the
> > fact
> > that it wasn't designed to be run from HD. I know that is annoying but that's
> > the
> > way it is. Likewise it doesn't change the fact that you are not entitled to
> > another
> > piece of copyright material to make up for the original programmers oversight.
> > Maybe you would be best to contact the WHDLoad patcher and speak with him -
> > perhaps he could change the installer to run without a rekick into an earlier
> > KS.
> > Then again maybe there are reasons for doing the patch this way - either way
> > he'll be the one to know.
> >
> > The true fact of this all is that you have a product (DM) which works as
> > designed.
> > The real (by design) gaming experience for DM is therefore to run it from floppy
> >
> > be that bad or good. Since by your own admission it runs from floppy then your
> > earlier protestation of being deprived must be erroneous and merely a poor
> > argument for piracy.
>
> Just two questions:
> - can you still buy new Amiga at store?
I don't know - Can anyone say for certain that there isn't some company with a
new, unsold, Amiga sitting in their inventory?
> - what benefit will ROM programmers have if Amiga is bought on i.e. e-bay
> or other similar place?
The same could be said for any item bought second hand. However, that doesn't
negate the Copyright Laws which still apply.
> Don't you see that for today buying Amiga just to get kickstart is pointless
> and doesn't help anyone?
That isn't the argument - Please read the rest of the thread (in particular my
last reply to Colin re this groups policy on warez requests). I sympathise with
Joona's predicament but that doesn't mean to say that I agree with his asking
for the ROM in this NG. If he really wants it then I know he's big and clever
enough to do a google search and locate the item himself.
John Burns
> *sigh* ..and the same old arguments come up again. The thing is, that's
> not the *point* .. pirate all you want, I could care less. Just don't go
> trying to do your warez swapping *in* *this* *group*.
>
> You're asking questions that have been asked 20 fecking times here this year
> already. Just look in the archives for your answer. And if ya wanna swap
> warez on a group, go to one of the alt Amiga groups that *already* does
> that.
Totally agree it seems that those who reply ignore the point you (and I
previously)
make above.
PS: You're also forgetting that Cloanto also do that excellent Amiga
Forever package, with more legal kickstarts than you'll probably
need. ..If you weren't gonna get it from a real Amiga, then they
are the ones you're probably cheating out of money.
How naughty of you to actually point out a company who may actually
be financially penalised by the trade in illegal KS ROMs. ;)
Nathan
> I don't know what's the situation of Joona, but I DON'T have any alt.*
> group that have word "amiga" in it. Many news servers restrict alt.*
> groups, only to few, or don't have alt.* at all.
*sigh* alt.binaries.emulators.amiga or alt.emulators.amiga are the
ones that are primarily what most people are after. If your news
provider doesn't carry what you want then maybe you need to look at
a better news provider. I mean s**t, news.individual.net does a
better job than any of the providers I *paid* for .. it's free, and
provides all groups. There are others like allnews.readfreenews.net
too. Hell, even Google carries them.
These groups are *not* particularly inaccessable. And these are only
the *newsgroup* forums for this kind of thing. There are other
resources on the web that cater for what you want. Anyone, like you,
who says otherwise has just been too lazy to *look* properly.
(It's been *years* since my ISP carried alt. groups BTW.)
And even if there weren't such things, doesn't change the fact that
this is *not* what CSAG is about. If you'd bothered to read our FAQ,
lurk here for a while, or check similar discussions in the archives
you'd know that already.
Stop your moaning, and learn how to do a google-search for gods sake.
>>PS: You're also forgetting that Cloanto also do that excellent Amiga
>> Forever package, with more legal kickstarts than you'll probably
>> need. ..If you weren't gonna get it from a real Amiga, then they
>> are the ones you're probably cheating out of money.
>
> I believe those kickstarts won't work with WHDLoad
I've had no problem. Point is, whether you use those particular ones
or not, you'd then be in a legal position to use them.
Nathan.
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
> *sigh* alt.binaries.emulators.amiga or alt.emulators.amiga are the
> ones that are primarily what most people are after. If your news
> provider doesn't carry what you want then maybe you need to look at
> a better news provider. I mean s**t, news.individual.net does a
> better job than any of the providers I *paid* for .. it's free, and
> provides all groups. There are others like allnews.readfreenews.net
> too. Hell, even Google carries them.
> These groups are *not* particularly inaccessable. And these are only
> the *newsgroup* forums for this kind of thing. There are other
> resources on the web that cater for what you want. Anyone, like you,
> who says otherwise has just been too lazy to *look* properly.
>
> (It's been *years* since my ISP carried alt. groups BTW.)
>
> And even if there weren't such things, doesn't change the fact that
> this is *not* what CSAG is about. If you'd bothered to read our FAQ,
> lurk here for a while, or check similar discussions in the archives
> you'd know that already.
Look, alt groups are not a real part of usenet, and it lives it's own life,
most providers filters alt.*.
comp.sys.amiga.* is official tree for amiga if something is not here it's
ok to assume no such group exist.
Also description of a group:
http://tinyurl.com/yq3l8
Doesn't say ANYTHING that warez questions are forbidden, so I'm afraid
you're simply enforcing artificial rules on new users.
Angus Manwaring
>On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 20:32:42 +1200, Nathan wrote:
>>> Just two questions:
>>> - can you still buy new Amiga at store?
>>> - what benefit will ROM programmers have if Amiga is bought on i.e. e-bay
>>> or other similar place?
>>> Don't you see that for today buying Amiga just to get kickstart is
>>> pointless and doesn't help anyone?
>> *sigh* ..and the same old arguments come up again. The thing is,
>> that's not the *point* .. pirate all you want, I could care less.
>> Just don't go trying to do your warez swapping *in* *this* *group*.
>> You're asking questions that have been asked 20 fecking times here
>> this year already. Just look in the archives for your answer. And
>> if ya wanna swap warez on a group, go to one of the alt Amiga groups
>> that *already* does that.
>I don't know what's the situation of Joona, but I DON'T have any alt.*
>group that have word "amiga" in it.
>Many news servers restrict alt.* groups, only to few, or don't have alt.*
>at all.
That is easily remedied, and in any case is not c.s.a.g's problem.
All the best,
Angus Manwaring. (for e-mail remove ANTISPEM)
I need your memories for the Amiga Games Database: A collection of Amiga
Game reviews by Amiga players http://www.angusm.demon.co.uk/AGDB/AGDB.html
Angus Manwaring
Yes, this is the one that I have where you click on the appropriate part
of a map of Europe - although I used to have the original release.
Anyway, I don't think the use of ks roms in certain WHDLoad patches can be
so easily tied down to what the original game required or even which rom
your machine uses.
My understanding is that once WHDLoad is executed having a rom in devs
kickstarts (with the supporting files) can be a useful solution for a wide
range of problems that the patcher may choose to use.
It isn't straightforward, I'm sure. :)
colin
Angus Manwaring <angus@angusm_ANTISPEM_.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1652.659T1399T5864798angus@angusm_ANTISPEM_.demon.co.uk...
And really who cares if you need to use a rom from a previous amiga comp.
I`m sure the whdload patchers and the users of them don`t.
Enjoy the games on HD that would otherwise have been lost on there original
DF0:
Nathan
> Look, alt groups are not a real part of usenet, and it lives it's own life,
> most providers filters alt.*.
>
> comp.sys.amiga.* is official tree for amiga if something is not here it's
> ok to assume no such group exist.
>
> Also description of a group:
> http://tinyurl.com/yq3l8
>
> Doesn't say ANYTHING that warez questions are forbidden, so I'm
> afraid you're simply enforcing artificial rules on new users.
Artificial rules? Oh, you mean like the rules in the CSAG FAQ?:
http://ballz.ababa.net/csag/
ie: rules that the have been decided on by the regulars here? Oh look,
my name is listed in the version 3 contributors list .. I obviously
have no idea of these rules. My last few years here I was probably
just sleep-posting. :)
"alt groups are not a real part of usenet"??? Hahaaaa... Oh you are
a funny little troll, aren't you? I use the same newsreader to get at
them .. they are on the same news-server I get CSAG. Yes, you do have
a point that not all providers carry them .. fact is many of the com-
mercial ones do coz they contain a lot of *porn* and other such shady
things that customers like access to.
And there are many freely available feeds for the alt. groups .. I even
listed two. But you feel if its not in the comp.sys.amiga tree it
doesn't exist? Funny, I type "amiga" into the subscription-list in my
newsreader (mozilla), and I get twice the number of groups. You should
start informing them they don't exist already. :)
Oh, I'm sorry, the original charter for the group when it was initially
created didn't forbid warez requests. Given that back then warez were
unquestionably considered *illegal*, do you think they needed to? "Oh,
wait, we forgot to say 'don't do illegal things here' .. damn, we've now
created the priacy centre of news-net!" Grow up.
Simply enforcing artificial rules? Hello? This is usenet!
* Lurk for a while to get a feel for the group before posting.
* Read the FAQ to check you're not repeating common questions. (!)
* Don't top-post unless it's the common practice for the group.
* Trim unnecessary quoted material when replying.
There are many other 'artificial rules' which vary between groups, as
does the members tolerance for people who don't adhere to them. If you
didn't realise this already you obviously haven't been around newsgroups
for long.
Nathan.
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
> Artificial rules? Oh, you mean like the rules in the CSAG FAQ?:
> http://ballz.ababa.net/csag/
> ie: rules that the have been decided on by the regulars here? Oh look,
> my name is listed in the version 3 contributors list .. I obviously
> have no idea of these rules. My last few years here I was probably
> just sleep-posting. :)
When news groups are created there is always provided outline and the rules
what can be discussed and what can't.
Old official FAQ:
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/amiga/games-FAQ/ - there is still nothing
Link which you have provided was created by some members of this group,
that's fine. It should answer on the common questions (that's what FAQ
(Frequently Asked Questions) mean).
> "alt groups are not a real part of usenet"??? Hahaaaa... Oh you are
> a funny little troll, aren't you? I use the same newsreader to get at
> them .. they are on the same news-server I get CSAG. Yes, you do have
> a point that not all providers carry them .. fact is many of the com-
> mercial ones do coz they contain a lot of *porn* and other such shady
> things that customers like access to.
alt.* have different rules than the rest of the usenet. Anyone can create
new group or delete existing group from the server. It's more as a
playground.
> And there are many freely available feeds for the alt. groups .. I even
> listed two. But you feel if its not in the comp.sys.amiga tree it
> doesn't exist? Funny, I type "amiga" into the subscription-list in my
> newsreader (mozilla), and I get twice the number of groups. You should
> start informing them they don't exist already. :)
who cares about groups in different languages if you don't speak them?
> Oh, I'm sorry, the original charter for the group when it was initially
> created didn't forbid warez requests. Given that back then warez were
> unquestionably considered *illegal*, do you think they needed to? "Oh,
> wait, we forgot to say 'don't do illegal things here' .. damn, we've now
> created the priacy centre of news-net!" Grow up.
If it doesn't say in description that is not allowed it is, you can simply
ignore those posts, or you can send proposition to change description of a
group.
> Simply enforcing artificial rules? Hello? This is usenet!
> * Lurk for a while to get a feel for the group before posting.
> * Read the FAQ to check you're not repeating common questions. (!)
> * Don't top-post unless it's the common practice for the group.
> * Trim unnecessary quoted material when replying.
> There are many other 'artificial rules' which vary between groups, as
> does the members tolerance for people who don't adhere to them. If you
> didn't realise this already you obviously haven't been around newsgroups
> for long.
example control message from comp.security.misc:
| comp.security.misc is an unmoderated newsgroup which passed its vote for
| creation by 276:23 as reported in news.announce.newgroups on 15 May 1992.
|
| For your newsgroups file:
| comp.security.misc Security issues of computers and networks.
|
| The charter, culled from the call for votes:
|
| The purpose of this group is to be a forum for rational discussion on
| security issues as they apply to computers and networks. This is a
| wide subject area and as such no attempt will be made to specifically
| limit the discussion topics as long as the general subject is computer
| security.
|
| However, topics that are definately NOT acceptable are:
|
| -Flames
| -Personal attacks
| -Security by obscurity arguments
As you can see many groups have outline what can be discussed and what
cannot.
My point is that if you don't like to help people, that's fine, just ignore
the threat, but don't say it's forbidden by group and send people to alt.*
groups.
Hidehiko Ogata
> > DM had a long product life, so I suppose there can be quite a few
> > versions out there; some dependent on KS1.3, others not, perhaps?
>
> Yup, AFAIR there's DM v 2.0 (in three languages) released by Psygnosis,
> Especially for kick 2.0 machines.
Ah! See, then all we have to do is to ask the patcher *nicely* to rid
the Psygno-version patch of the KS1.3 dependency once and for all.
That may lose some warezmongers' ego-booster, but I'd prefer a permanent
solution myself.
John Burns
> As you can see many groups have outline what can be discussed and what
> cannot.
As have we the FAQ states what is considered on and off topic. Can't you grasp
that concept. Not long ago an ex-regular returned and following a discussion on
warez postings a vote was taken - the *majority* view was that such posts were
not on topic and not wanted hence the groups current policy.
> My point is that if you don't like to help people, that's fine, just ignore
> the threat, but don't say it's forbidden by group and send people to alt.*
> groups.
Oh right, so the *majority* who disagree with you POV regarding warez should
accede to your *minority* opinion and put up with it. Get a life, or at least
some logic in your argument.
It's not a question of not wanting to help (in fact pointing them to the alt
groups is helping) don't try to second guess others motives. No one says it is
explicitly forbidden to talk about Religion, Politics, etc. but they likewise
aren't on topic here and any poster of such would probably be so reminded. It is
interesting to note that Joona (to his credit) is not the one continuing this
argument but rather you who seem to condone warez.
The reason why warez requests are not stated as wrong is because it is a given.
That is: It is an illegal act to trade in warez. Likewise one isn't told "don't
commit murder" or "don't steal cars" why not because those who write the
charters assume that (at least some of) the posters will have the common sense
to know this. Despite what many think the Internet, including Usenet, is not
above the Law.
If you want to break the law fine, go do it, no-one here really cares. What we
don't want however is you and your ilk to carry out such illegal activities here
and bore us with constant requests for warez just because they're also too lazy
to search them out themselves.
Nathan
> Nathan Wain wrote:
>>You're asking questions that have been asked 20 fecking times here this year
>>already. Just look in the archives for your answer. And if ya wanna swap
>>warez on a group, go to one of the alt Amiga groups that *already* does
>>that.
>
> Totally agree it seems that those who reply ignore the point you (and I
> previously) make above.
Yeah, it's funny how it always comes down to the "but it's too old to
matter" defence. That's never been the point at all. But hey, noone
ever said newsgroups were a place for calm logical arguments. :)
> PS: You're also forgetting that Cloanto also do that excellent Amiga
> Forever package, with more legal kickstarts than you'll probably
> need. ..If you weren't gonna get it from a real Amiga, then they
> are the ones you're probably cheating out of money.
>
> How naughty of you to actually point out a company who may actually
> be financially penalised by the trade in illegal KS ROMs. ;)
Oh, erm, sorry. :) hehe.. Actually, since I bought their online
edition I've been quite impressed with what they provide. So much
so that I'm going to buy the CD edition of their new version. (Just
to see all the archived videos is going to be *so* cool.)
I was most enthusiastic about some plan to connect the PC and Amiga
and get some file-transfers going too .. right up until the point the
A4000 HDD died. *sniff* No matter. Guess the A1200 drive gets a
little use to get everything up and running again, eh?
Put a dent in my Rocket Ranger and Sinbad rediscovery plans, that did.
:)
Nathan. (The Amiga Forever convert.)
Hidehiko Ogata
> And really who cares if you need to use a rom from a previous amiga comp.
> I`m sure the whdload patchers and the users of them don`t.
Who is pushing whose presumption onto others now?
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
> On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:50:22 -0700, Dariusz Kuliïski / TaKeDa wrote:
>
>> As you can see many groups have outline what can be discussed and what
>> cannot.
>
> As have we the FAQ states what is considered on and off topic. Can't you grasp
> that concept. Not long ago an ex-regular returned and following a discussion on
> warez postings a vote was taken - the *majority* view was that such posts were
> not on topic and not wanted hence the groups current policy.
The problem is that Amiga is dead, most of the people still tries to
remember old times by using emulators. Floppy discs are really bad medium
and even when they're not used, after some time data on them disappears.
>> My point is that if you don't like to help people, that's fine, just ignore
>> the threat, but don't say it's forbidden by group and send people to alt.*
>> groups.
> Oh right, so the *majority* who disagree with you POV regarding warez should
> accede to your *minority* opinion and put up with it. Get a life, or at least
> some logic in your argument.
I don't know how big this group is, because looks like only three people
disagree with me.
What I'm saying there is NO emulator section in comp.sys.amiga.*, and
description of that group doesn't forbid asking such questions.
> It's not a question of not wanting to help (in fact pointing them to the alt
> groups is helping) don't try to second guess others motives. No one says it is
> explicitly forbidden to talk about Religion, Politics, etc. but they likewise
> aren't on topic here and any poster of such would probably be so reminded.
Description of the group says, that group is about discussing gaming on
Amiga, so asking about religion or politics is wrong.
> It is
> interesting to note that Joona (to his credit) is not the one continuing this
> argument but rather you who seem to condone warez.
Joona already got response on private mail, so there is no reason to
continue discussion. I know where to find what I'm looking for, so I'm not
asking, but i see that many people need help, and I don't see that their
questions are offtopic here.
> The reason why warez requests are not stated as wrong is because it is a given.
> That is: It is an illegal act to trade in warez. Likewise one isn't told "don't
> commit murder" or "don't steal cars" why not because those who write the
> charters assume that (at least some of) the posters will have the common sense
> to know this. Despite what many think the Internet, including Usenet, is not
> above the Law.
Law was created to protect others and their property.
In case of Amiga, almost nobody sells software anymore, if you even want to
buy it. In that case nobody loses anything, and it helps preserve that
software.
> If you want to break the law fine, go do it, no-one here really cares. What we
> don't want however is you and your ilk to carry out such illegal activities here
> and bore us with constant requests for warez just because they're also too lazy
> to search them out themselves.
Not everyone knows how to search, also some stuff is really hard to find
(and impossible to even find it on ebay or any other place)
John Burns
> On 13 Jun 2004 04:53:51 +0100, John Burns wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 12:50:22 -0700, Dariusz KuliĂŻski / TaKeDa wrote:
> >
> >> As you can see many groups have outline what can be discussed and what
> >> cannot.
> >
> > As have we the FAQ states what is considered on and off topic. Can't you grasp
> > that concept. Not long ago an ex-regular returned and following a discussion on
> > warez postings a vote was taken - the *majority* view was that such posts were
> > not on topic and not wanted hence the groups current policy.
>
> The problem is that Amiga is dead, most of the people still tries to
> remember old times by using emulators. Floppy discs are really bad medium
> and even when they're not used, after some time data on them disappears.
So they say, though personally I've never experienced any of my original disks
corrupting (the working copies I've made have though). Anyway that is hardly a
valid argument since no consumer product is guaranteed an infinite life. Where
it to be so our Capitalist based society would collapse.
> >> My point is that if you don't like to help people, that's fine, just ignore
> >> the threat, but don't say it's forbidden by group and send people to alt.*
> >> groups.
> > Oh right, so the *majority* who disagree with you POV regarding warez should
> > accede to your *minority* opinion and put up with it. Get a life, or at least
> > some logic in your argument.
>
> I don't know how big this group is, because looks like only three people
> disagree with me.
Even if it were true (which it isn't) that'd still be more than agree with you.
> What I'm saying there is NO emulator section in comp.sys.amiga.*, and
> description of that group doesn't forbid asking such questions.
Which isn't an answer to the question - in fact it is a different question (and
not
even one which is relevant to this thread). Why try to change the question,
couldn't you answer the one that was asked? None of the comp.sys groups have
emulation in their own hierarchy. Do you understand anything? comp.sys = true
(original) systems. The emulation groups likewise have their own hierarchy and
titles.
> > It's not a question of not wanting to help (in fact pointing them to the alt
> > groups is helping) don't try to second guess others motives. No one says it is
> > explicitly forbidden to talk about Religion, Politics, etc. but they likewise
> > aren't on topic here and any poster of such would probably be so reminded.
>
> Description of the group says, that group is about discussing gaming on
> Amiga, so asking about religion or politics is wrong.
Oh well since you did manage to discern that from the FAQ then no doubt you'll
also have realised that there is no way that asking for warez or ROMs or even
emulation questions come under the umberella of discussing the actual game or
gameplay either. Looks like your zeal in trying to prove me somehow wrong has
only scored an own goal against your own argument. Read what is said not what
you'd like it to say. Tut, tut, you really do need to try harder.
> > It is
> > interesting to note that Joona (to his credit) is not the one continuing this
> > argument but rather you who seem to condone warez.
>
> Joona already got response on private mail, so there is no reason to
> continue discussion. I know where to find what I'm looking for, so I'm not
> asking, but i see that many people need help, and I don't see that their
> questions are offtopic here.
Off course you don't - you only see what you want to see.
> > The reason why warez requests are not stated as wrong is because it is a given.
> > That is: It is an illegal act to trade in warez. Likewise one isn't told "don't
> > commit murder" or "don't steal cars" why not because those who write the
> > charters assume that (at least some of) the posters will have the common sense
> > to know this. Despite what many think the Internet, including Usenet, is not
> > above the Law.
>
> Law was created to protect others and their property. In case of Amiga,
> almost nobody sells software anymore, if you even want to buy it. In that
> case nobody loses anything, and it helps preserve that software.
Almost isn't the same as no-one so how can you then say that nobody loses -
Again your lack of logic shows. Try reading what you write before pressing the
send button
and it won't be so easy for me to expose you silly argument. Warez trading has
nothing to do with preservation - One can easily make an adf of a floppy based
game for preservation but when you start distributing it that is a different
thing entirely. Please, don't try to kid us on that warez traders are some sort
of philanthropists doing us all a favour when they are just out to get something
for nothing.
> > If you want to break the law fine, go do it, no-one here really cares. What we
> > don't want however is you and your ilk to carry out such illegal activities here
> > and bore us with constant requests for warez just because they're also too lazy
> > to search them out themselves.
>
> Not everyone knows how to search, also some stuff is really hard to find
> (and impossible to even find it on ebay or any other place)
Oh right, so that's your tack now. Sorry but it won't wash, if they don't know
how to use a search engine then that's their own fault - Truth is that they'll
learn best by
trying it. And let's be honest it isn't that hard to do. It's not as though it
is asking someone to learn Assembly language or something.
Heikki Orsila
> OK fair enough it runs from floppy, great, but that still doesn't negate the
> fact that it wasn't designed to be run from HD. I know that is annoying but
> that's the way it is.
> designed. The real (by design) gaming experience for DM is therefore to run
> it from floppy
Hello, long time no see. It is irritating that your attitude is that one
should not be allowed to help oneself. Making artifical barriers where
there is really nothing at stake is just plain stupid. And I am sure it
was not an original design goal that the program is inconvenient to use.
Anyway, locating kickstart rom images is still very easy with google. And
if nothing helps, this group is definitely a good place to start :)
--
Heikki Orsila
heikki...@iki.fi
http://ee.tut.fi/~heikki
Heikki Orsila
> Doesn't say ANYTHING that warez questions are forbidden, so I'm afraid
> you're simply enforcing artificial rules on new users.
Even if it did say something, this isn't a moderated channel. That means
that all rules are social. And in social matters there can be only
progress when almost everyone agrees on the rules.
Heikki Orsila
> There are many other 'artificial rules' which vary between groups, as
> does the members tolerance for people who don't adhere to them. If you
> didn't realise this already you obviously haven't been around newsgroups
> for long.
That you try to force rules on users only means you want power. If you don't
like some topic of discussion, don't read it and certainly do not answer it!
Heikki Orsila
> Oh right, so the *majority* who disagree with you POV regarding warez should
> accede to your *minority* opinion and put up with it. Get a life, or at least
> some logic in your argument.
Please shut up. Since when was majority always right?
Heikki Orsila
> On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:46:06 -0700, Dariusz Kuliďski / TaKeDa wrote:
>> The problem is that Amiga is dead, most of the people still tries to
>> remember old times by using emulators. Floppy discs are really bad medium
>> and even when they're not used, after some time data on them disappears.
> So they say, though personally I've never experienced any of my original
> disks corrupting (the working copies I've made have though). Anyway that
> is hardly a valid argument since no consumer product is guaranteed an
> infinite life. Where it to be so our Capitalist based society would
> collapse.
Anyone who cares about preserving culture should see the stupidity in that
argument. The damnest thing is that even if you don't care about
preserving that culture, you also want to forbid anyone else doing that.
And the sentence about capitalism is just ridiculous in this context..
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
> So they say, though personally I've never experienced any of my original disks
> corrupting (the working copies I've made have though). Anyway that is hardly a
> valid argument since no consumer product is guaranteed an infinite life. Where
> it to be so our Capitalist based society would collapse.
That happen to me many times, not just with Amiga floppies.
When I get HD to my Amiga, those floppies weren't used very often, but data
on them damaged anyway with the time.
>> I don't know how big this group is, because looks like only three people
>> disagree with me.
> Even if it were true (which it isn't) that'd still be more than agree with you.
You seem to ignore others.
If somebody got quiet because some people (mostly Nathan) yelled at them it
doesn't mean they don't agree with me.
>> What I'm saying there is NO emulator section in comp.sys.amiga.*, and
>> description of that group doesn't forbid asking such questions.
> Which isn't an answer to the question - in fact it is a different question (and
> not
> even one which is relevant to this thread). Why try to change the question,
> couldn't you answer the one that was asked? None of the comp.sys groups have
> emulation in their own hierarchy. Do you understand anything? comp.sys = true
> (original) systems. The emulation groups likewise have their own hierarchy and
> titles.
Then is there any other group in comp.* hierarchy where I can find people
who know Amiga?
More and more Amigas are emulated today, and you can notice that by looking
of news readers of people who post here.
>> Description of the group says, that group is about discussing gaming on
>> Amiga, so asking about religion or politics is wrong.
> Oh well since you did manage to discern that from the FAQ then no doubt you'll
> also have realised that there is no way that asking for warez or ROMs or even
> emulation questions come under the umberella of discussing the actual game or
> gameplay either. Looks like your zeal in trying to prove me somehow wrong has
> only scored an own goal against your own argument. Read what is said not what
> you'd like it to say. Tut, tut, you really do need to try harder.
My problem is that English is not my native language, and you're from
England, so you don't need to write with dictionary in hand.
What's wrong with asking question on gaming group when you have problem
with a game?
Of course you can try asking question on comp.emulators.misc, but there is
very slim chance to find amiga users there, and most likely they'll know
the solution.
>> Joona already got response on private mail, so there is no reason to
>> continue discussion. I know where to find what I'm looking for, so I'm not
>> asking, but i see that many people need help, and I don't see that their
>> questions are offtopic here.
> Off course you don't - you only see what you want to see.
Same with you :)
>> Law was created to protect others and their property. In case of Amiga,
>> almost nobody sells software anymore, if you even want to buy it. In that
>> case nobody loses anything, and it helps preserve that software.
> Almost isn't the same as no-one so how can you then say that nobody loses -
I was just saying that some software still might be developed, but
emulating questions are usually about software that isn't.
> Again your lack of logic shows. Try reading what you write before pressing the
> send button
> and it won't be so easy for me to expose you silly argument. Warez trading has
> nothing to do with preservation - One can easily make an adf of a floppy based
> game for preservation but when you start distributing it that is a different
> thing entirely. Please, don't try to kid us on that warez traders are some sort
> of philanthropists doing us all a favour when they are just out to get something
> for nothing.
So tell me why you don't call www.back2roots.org a warez website?
True warez doesn't exist for Amiga anymore.
>>> If you want to break the law fine, go do it, no-one here really cares. What we
>>> don't want however is you and your ilk to carry out such illegal activities here
>>> and bore us with constant requests for warez just because they're also too lazy
>>> to search them out themselves.
>> Not everyone knows how to search, also some stuff is really hard to find
>> (and impossible to even find it on ebay or any other place)
> Oh right, so that's your tack now. Sorry but it won't wash, if they don't know
> how to use a search engine then that's their own fault - Truth is that they'll
> learn best by
> trying it. And let's be honest it isn't that hard to do. It's not as though it
> is asking someone to learn Assembly language or something.
Belive me some stuff is really hard to find, for example that penicillin
kickstart, or whatever it was.
Most (if not all) currently use Amiga to get back in time and remember how
it was in the old times. Hardware brokes, and for today is really hard to
find place where it can be fixed, so number of people who use real Amiga
will decrease, some of them will simple forget about that computer some
will use only emulator.
Voice of the Mysterons
news:w91n4mjo9ncw$.dlg@stupidworms.takeda.tk...
> On 15 Jun 2004 02:41:15 +0100, John Burns wrote:
>
[snip]
Dariusz,
You have been polite and a real gentleman IMHO. I don't agree with
everything you have posted, but I do thank you for your comments. I also
wish the handful of others that appear to be the self-appointed policemen of
this newsgroup, and treat it as some kind of private discussion group, would
learn something from you.
Angus Manwaring
>On 15 Jun 2004 02:41:15 +0100, John Burns wrote:
>My problem is that English is not my native language, and you're from
>England,
I don't belieeeeeeeeve...... you wanted to say that. :)
>What's wrong with asking question on gaming group when you have problem
>with a game?
No problem if its related to Amiga hardware/software.
John Burns
> John Burns <jo...@grizo.free-onlinenojunk.co.uk> wrote:
> > OK fair enough it runs from floppy, great, but that still doesn't negate the
> > fact that it wasn't designed to be run from HD. I know that is annoying but
> > that's the way it is.
> > ...
> > The true fact of this all is that you have a product (DM) which works as
> > designed. The real (by design) gaming experience for DM is therefore to run
> > it from floppy
>
> Hello, long time no see. It is irritating that your attitude is that one
> should not be allowed to help oneself. Making artifical barriers where there
> is really nothing at stake is just plain stupid. And I am sure it was not an
> original design goal that the program is inconvenient to use.
I have nothing against one helping themselves - but asking others to break the
law or help you to do so isn't the same thing and at the end of the day it
really
is OT for this group.
> Anyway, locating kickstart rom images is still very easy with google. And if
> nothing helps, this group is definitely a good place to start :)
As I have already stated those who ask for warez here are just lazy but no this
group isn't a good place to start - If you are after warez, go to a warez group;
If you want to discuss emulation issues go to an emulation group; If you want to
discuss Macs go to a Mac group; Do you see the logic of this?
John Burns
> Nathan <tko...@yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
> > There are many other 'artificial rules' which vary between groups, as
> > does the members tolerance for people who don't adhere to them. If you
> > didn't realise this already you obviously haven't been around newsgroups
> > for long.
>
> That you try to force rules on users only means you want power. If you don't
> like some topic of discussion, don't read it and certainly do not answer it!
>
So what is the point of having all these different NGs on Usenet then? After all
by your logic it should just be one NG and we just decide what to read or
answer. Truth is that most if not all NGs have a set of guidelines on what is
and isn't considered on topic etc.
Since you are so up on social convention then surely you'd agree that the onus
is on the newcomer to a group to familiarise him/herself with that groups
conventions and rules before joining (this applies in the real world too, not
just to Usenet) to do otherwise is just either stupidity or pig headed bad
manners.
Someone coming to this group doesn't have the rules forced on them - by of their
own volition joining a group it is narurally assumed that they understand and
are willing to comply with the group's rules. If they don't like them then they
shouldn't enter. And ignorance of the rules is no excuse either.
In truth it is the people who come here in spite of the long standing rules and
then state that they should be allowed to ask for warez who are trying to force
their POV onto others.
John Burns
> John Burns <jo...@grizo.free-onlinenojunk.co.uk> wrote:
> > Oh right, so the *majority* who disagree with you POV regarding warez should
> > accede to your *minority* opinion and put up with it. Get a life, or at least
> > some logic in your argument.
>
> Please shut up. Since when was majority always right?
>
Don't try to mis-represent what I said. I never claimed that the majority was
always right. I merely asked why the poster thought that his minority view
should overrule the majority held view.
Funny that neither he, nor you has actually managed to answer that question.
Let's see, I should shut up. Why, because I hold a different opinion to you or
because I ask questions you are unable or unwilling to answer? Either way it'd
seem that you are the one trying to *force* others.
John Burns
> On 15-Jun-04 17:10:46, Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa said
> >On 15 Jun 2004 02:41:15 +0100, John Burns wrote:
>
>
> >My problem is that English is not my native language, and you're from
> >England,
>
> I don't belieeeeeeeeve...... you wanted to say that. :)
Seen and already commented it :)
> >What's wrong with asking question on gaming group when you have problem
> >with a game?
>
> No problem if its related to Amiga hardware/software.
No, no, no, c.s.a.hardware or misc for hardware or software questions. Only
software which should be here is actual games. Not for instance questions about
how to get Final Writer or Wordworth to do headers/footers or how to tower an
A1200.
John Burns
> John Burns <jo...@grizo.free-onlinenojunk.co.uk> wrote:
> > On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 16:46:06 -0700, Dariusz Kuliďski / TaKeDa wrote:
> >> The problem is that Amiga is dead, most of the people still tries to
> >> remember old times by using emulators. Floppy discs are really bad medium
> >> and even when they're not used, after some time data on them disappears.
>
> > So they say, though personally I've never experienced any of my original
> > disks corrupting (the working copies I've made have though). Anyway that
> > is hardly a valid argument since no consumer product is guaranteed an
> > infinite life. Were it to be so our Capitalist based society would collapse.
> Anyone who cares about preserving culture should see the stupidity in that
> argument. The damnest thing is that even if you don't care about preserving
> that culture, you also want to forbid anyone else doing that. And the
> sentence about capitalism is just ridiculous in this context..
How are my statements wrong - QED, don't just gainsay.
BTW I note you snipped my later para where I point out the difference between
making a copy of a disk for preservation purposes and trading it. Then again if
you had left it in your argument would have seemed rather stupid, wouldn't it.
Dishonest practice does your argument no good. If that is the way you intend to
argue then perhaps you should take your own advice and shut up before you do
yourself any further disfavour.
John Burns
> On 15 Jun 2004 02:41:15 +0100, John Burns wrote:
>
> > So they say, though personally I've never experienced any of my original disks
> > corrupting (the working copies I've made have though). Anyway that is hardly a
> > valid argument since no consumer product is guaranteed an infinite life. Where
> > it to be so our Capitalist based society would collapse.
>
> That happen to me many times, not just with Amiga floppies. When I get HD to
> my Amiga, those floppies weren't used very often, but data on them damaged
> anyway with the time.
> >> I don't know how big this group is, because looks like only three people
> >> disagree with me.
> > Even if it were true (which it isn't) that'd still be more than agree with you.
> You seem to ignore others.
> If somebody got quiet because some people (mostly Nathan) yelled at them it
> doesn't mean they don't agree with me.
LOL, yeah right
> >> What I'm saying there is NO emulator section in comp.sys.amiga.*, and
> >> description of that group doesn't forbid asking such questions.
> > Which isn't an answer to the question - in fact it is a different question (and
> > not
> > even one which is relevant to this thread). Why try to change the question,
> > couldn't you answer the one that was asked? None of the comp.sys groups have
> > emulation in their own hierarchy. Do you understand anything? comp.sys = true
> > (original) systems. The emulation groups likewise have their own hierarchy and
> > titles.
>
> Then is there any other group in comp.* hierarchy where I can find people
> who know Amiga?
try any of the NGs with amiga in them!
> More and more Amigas are emulated today, and you can notice that by looking
> of news readers of people who post here.
And that is why they have groups just for emulation, is that so hard to
understand?
Secondly, in addition to my Amigas I have a Mac and a PC. I prefer to use my
Amigas for mail and news but I use my PC for other stuff on the internet due to
it being connected via broadband. Even if I was posting here with my PC it
wouldn't necessarily mean that I was emulating an Amiga. If you are discussing a
game here no-one is really bothered whether you are playing it on a real or
emulated Amiga.
> >> Description of the group says, that group is about discussing gaming on
> >> Amiga, so asking about religion or politics is wrong.
> > Oh well since you did manage to discern that from the FAQ then no doubt you'll
> > also have realised that there is no way that asking for warez or ROMs or even
> > emulation questions come under the umberella of discussing the actual game or
> > gameplay either. Looks like your zeal in trying to prove me somehow wrong has
> > only scored an own goal against your own argument. Read what is said not what
> > you'd like it to say. Tut, tut, you really do need to try harder.
>
> My problem is that English is not my native language, and you're from
> England, so you don't need to write with dictionary in hand.
Scotland actually (but I won't hold that slur against you ;) )
>
> What's wrong with asking question on gaming group when you have problem with
> a game?
No-one is complaining about asking a game question; did anyone complain when
Joona began talking about solving some levels of Clockwiser? - NO. Asking for or
about a KS ROM isn't asking about a game. Anyway the problem wasn't with the
game as such but with a WHDLoad installer for the game. See the difference?
> Of course you can try asking question on comp.emulators.misc, but there is
> very slim chance to find amiga users there, and most likely they'll know the
> solution.
Come on now there are specific Amiga emulation groups.
> >> Joona already got response on private mail, so there is no reason to
> >> continue discussion. I know where to find what I'm looking for, so I'm not
> >> asking, but i see that many people need help, and I don't see that their
> >> questions are offtopic here.
> > Of course you don't - you only see what you want to see.
>
> Same with you :)
Not really, the FAQ clearly points out what this group is about and what it
isn't. For those topics considered OT it gives links to groups that can help
with such questions (emulation for instance). I therefore am seeing what is
actually there to be seen.
> >> Law was created to protect others and their property. In case of Amiga,
> >> almost nobody sells software anymore, if you even want to buy it. In that
> >> case nobody loses anything, and it helps preserve that software.
> > Almost isn't the same as no-one so how can you then say that nobody loses -
>
> I was just saying that some software still might be developed, but emulating
> questions are usually about software that isn't.
Sorry, don't understand the point you are trying to make here. Just because
something is no longer being made doesn't mean it is free or has no value.
> > Again your lack of logic shows. Try reading what you write before pressing the
> > send button
> > and it won't be so easy for me to expose you silly argument. Warez trading has
> > nothing to do with preservation - One can easily make an adf of a floppy based
> > game for preservation but when you start distributing it that is a different
> > thing entirely. Please, don't try to kid us on that warez traders are some sort
> > of philanthropists doing us all a favour when they are just out to get something
> > for nothing.
> So tell me why you don't call www.back2roots.org a warez website? True warez
> doesn't exist for Amiga anymore.
AFAIK they have gained permission from the copyright holders for the software
which they distribute. If they don't have permission they don't distribute it -
I actually helped them get permission for one of the games which they have
available and it was a bit of a hassle (though not really difficult). So before
you go mud slinging think of the effort that some go to just so that others can
benefit. The guys at BttR don't ask or force you to pay when you download stuff
(something which many so called abandonware etc. sites do).
> >>> If you want to break the law fine, go do it, no-one here really cares. What we
> >>> don't want however is you and your ilk to carry out such illegal activities here
> >>> and bore us with constant requests for warez just because they're also too lazy
> >>> to search them out themselves.
> >> Not everyone knows how to search, also some stuff is really hard to find
> >> (and impossible to even find it on ebay or any other place)
> > Oh right, so that's your tack now. Sorry but it won't wash, if they don't know
> > how to use a search engine then that's their own fault - Truth is that they'll
> > learn best by
> > trying it. And let's be honest it isn't that hard to do. It's not as though it
> > is asking someone to learn Assembly language or something.
>
> Belive me some stuff is really hard to find, for example that penicillin
> kickstart, or whatever it was.
So what? It is illegal so don't ask others to break the law.
> Most (if not all) currently use Amiga to get back in time and remember how
> it was in the old times. Hardware brokes, and for today is really hard to
> find place where it can be fixed, so number of people who use real Amiga
> will decrease, some of them will simple forget about that computer some will
> use only emulator.
And if they use an emulator then they should buy the KS ROMs - if they want an
Amiga (emulated or not) then it must have value. If they feel that the price of
the Cloanto CD is too expensive then that is tough - they'll just have to do
without then.
Eric Haines
> Dariusz,
>
> You have been polite and a real gentleman IMHO. I don't agree with
> everything you have posted, but I do thank you for your comments. I also
> wish the handful of others that appear to be the self-appointed policemen of
> this newsgroup, and treat it as some kind of private discussion group, would
> learn something from you.
Problem is, those self-appointed policemen who treat this newsgroup as a
private discussion group...happen to be just about the only ones who
aver actually post stuff on-topic, it seems. i.e., stuff about Amiga
games. The others just whine about where to get Amiga warez or how to run
UAE.
The answers to those two questions, respectively and for all time, are:
1). Use Google.
2). RTFM.
Thankyew. Now, aren't we all just sick of having this "discussion" AGAIN?
--Eric
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
>>My problem is that English is not my native language, and you're from
>>England,
>
> I don't belieeeeeeeeve...... you wanted to say that. :)
Don't cut the sentences, because it gives them different meaning.
I don't have anything against people from UK.
>>What's wrong with asking question on gaming group when you have problem
>>with a game?
> No problem if its related to Amiga hardware/software.
Yeah, that's what I was saying.
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
>> That you try to force rules on users only means you want power. If you don't
>> like some topic of discussion, don't read it and certainly do not answer it!
> So what is the point of having all these different NGs on Usenet then? After all
> by your logic it should just be one NG and we just decide what to read or
> answer. Truth is that most if not all NGs have a set of guidelines on what is
> and isn't considered on topic etc.
New groups were created, because some time ago there was a lot of people
discussing, so to clear up discussion comp.sys.amiga was split into smaller
groups. Looks like they should get merged back to one group.
> In truth it is the people who come here in spite of the long standing rules and
> then state that they should be allowed to ask for warez who are trying to force
> their POV onto others.
Nobody forces you to read all threads :)
There are people who seem to help, and that's enough, nobody needs people
who whine that questions are of topics, and against FAQ (what FAQ stands
for BTW ;)
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
>> Then is there any other group in comp.* hierarchy where I can find people
>> who know Amiga?
> try any of the NGs with amiga in them!
http://www.takeda.tk/site/misc/amiga_usenet.png
Which one?
>> What's wrong with asking question on gaming group when you have problem with
>> a game?
> No-one is complaining about asking a game question; did anyone complain when
> Joona began talking about solving some levels of Clockwiser? - NO. Asking for or
> about a KS ROM isn't asking about a game. Anyway the problem wasn't with the
> game as such but with a WHDLoad installer for the game. See the difference?
The problem was that game wasn't working correctly.
>> Of course you can try asking question on comp.emulators.misc, but there is
>> very slim chance to find amiga users there, and most likely they'll know the
>> solution.
> Come on now there are specific Amiga emulation groups.
Where?
>>> Of course you don't - you only see what you want to see.
>> Same with you :)
> Not really, the FAQ clearly points out what this group is about and what it
> isn't. For those topics considered OT it gives links to groups that can help
> with such questions (emulation for instance). I therefore am seeing what is
> actually there to be seen.
What makes FAQ an official FAQ?
Also FAQ supposed to answer questions not create new rules.
>> I was just saying that some software still might be developed, but emulating
>> questions are usually about software that isn't.
> Sorry, don't understand the point you are trying to make here. Just because
> something is no longer being made doesn't mean it is free or has no value.
If something is not sold anymore you cannot call copying it - stealing.
Copying will be just copying.
>> So tell me why you don't call www.back2roots.org a warez website? True warez
>> doesn't exist for Amiga anymore.
> AFAIK they have gained permission from the copyright holders for the software
> which they distribute. If they don't have permission they don't distribute it -
> I actually helped them get permission for one of the games which they have
> available and it was a bit of a hassle (though not really difficult). So before
> you go mud slinging think of the effort that some go to just so that others can
> benefit. The guys at BttR don't ask or force you to pay when you download stuff
> (something which many so called abandonware etc. sites do).
So how do you know that somebody doesn't have problem with game that was
downloaded from back2roots.org?
>> Belive me some stuff is really hard to find, for example that penicillin
>> kickstart, or whatever it was.
> So what? It is illegal so don't ask others to break the law.
Nobody forced anyone to do anything, you could skip that thread.
Also can you find any legitimate way to get hold of that kickstart?
Person just wanted to see it.
>> Most (if not all) currently use Amiga to get back in time and remember how
>> it was in the old times. Hardware brokes, and for today is really hard to
>> find place where it can be fixed, so number of people who use real Amiga
>> will decrease, some of them will simple forget about that computer some will
>> use only emulator.
> And if they use an emulator then they should buy the KS ROMs - if they want an
> Amiga (emulated or not) then it must have value. If they feel that the price of
> the Cloanto CD is too expensive then that is tough - they'll just have to do
> without then.
I believe that kickstarts from Cloanto CD will hardly work with WDHload.
Heikki Orsila
> Don't try to mis-represent what I said. I never claimed that the majority was
> always right. I merely asked why the poster thought that his minority view
> should overrule the majority held view.
This is not about overruling other people's views. This is about 'the supposed
majority' trying to force ridiculous rules on minority.
> Funny that neither he, nor you has actually managed to answer that question.
> Let's see, I should shut up. Why, because I hold a different opinion to
> you or because I ask questions you are unable or unwilling to answer?
> Either way it'd seem that you are the one trying to *force* others.
You have totally lost track of the discussion. You are trying to force someone
to do something. Look at what 'the other guy said'. Clearly he is not trying
to force anyone, merely suggests to ignore postings that don't please your
mind:
> The other guys said:
>> My point is that if you don't like to help people, that's fine, just ignore
>> the threat, but don't say it's forbidden by group and send people to alt.*
>> groups.
Then uou said:
> Oh right, so the *majority* who disagree with you POV regarding warez should
> accede to your *minority* opinion and put up with it. Get a life, or at least
> some logic in your argument.
This totally implies 'you' are the majority and 'you' should dictate what
is proper conduct around here.
Heikki Orsila
> So what is the point of having all these different NGs on Usenet then?
When it comes to amiga games, i don't really see the point of having many
groups. The volume of postings is low already. I would accept additional
topics here.
> After all
> by your logic it should just be one NG and we just decide what to read or
> answer. Truth is that most if not all NGs have a set of guidelines on what
> is and isn't considered on topic etc.
> Since you are so up on social convention ...
What I said was an observation, kind of fact of reality. I am definitely not
always into social conventions.
> Someone coming to this group doesn't have the rules forced on them - by of
> their own volition joining a group it is narurally assumed that they
> understand and are willing to comply with the group's rules. If they don't
> like them then they shouldn't enter. And ignorance of the rules is no
> excuse either.
There is nothing natural about that assumption.
Angus Manwaring
Sure, but I meant in context with his comment,"when you have problem with
a game".
As in, I can't for the life of me get Image Work's "Gravity" to work on my
040 system at anything like a decent frame rate, is it anything to do with
how much chip memory is available?
:)
John Burns
[snip]
> Thankyew. Now, aren't we all just sick of having this "discussion" AGAIN?
Yes
John Burns
> On 16 Jun 2004 02:49:20 +0100, John Burns wrote:
[snip]
> The problem was that game wasn't working correctly.
Wrong, the game works properly, as designed, from floppy (Joona admitted this).
The problem is that the game wasn't designed to be run from HD and the WHDLoad
patch requires that you have a KS 1.3 ROM for softkicking. This problem has
nothing really to do with the actual game but with the HD patch and its
requirements. Again you are making up your own arguments - stick to what was
actually said and we may manage to get somewhere.
> >> Of course you can try asking question on comp.emulators.misc, but there is
> >> very slim chance to find amiga users there, and most likely they'll know the
> >> solution.
> > Come on now there are specific Amiga emulation groups.
>
> Where?
Read the FAQ - If you had done so then maybe you wouldn't be asking the same old
questions :( (and getting the same old answers, too).
> >>> Of course you don't - you only see what you want to see.
> >> Same with you :)
> > Not really, the FAQ clearly points out what this group is about and what it
> > isn't. For those topics considered OT it gives links to groups that can help
> > with such questions (emulation for instance). I therefore am seeing what is
> > actually there to be seen.
>
> What makes FAQ an official FAQ?
(BTW since you asked what a FAQ was (in another post) then one must assume that
you don't know and therefore the question is begged as to how you can be arguing
about something which you have no idea of?)
Can you show us an unofficial one? If there is only one then it must be the
official one. But in answer some time (Year, year and a half) ago, the FAQ was
debated on the group and its updated content decided by the contributors to the
group. Seems a good enough reason to call it the groups official FAQ to me. No
doubt you'll disagree.
> Also FAQ supposed to answer questions not create new rules.
They are actually there to answer the questions which no-one wants to see on the
group as they have been asked and answered (F)requently before. This includes
both questions which are and aren't on topic.
[snip]
> If something is not sold anymore you cannot call copying it - stealing.
> Copying will be just copying.
Rubbish it is against Copyright Law to copy something without permission. It
matters not whether the product is being sold or not. Obviously Copyright is
something else which you know little of.
[snip]
> So how do you know that somebody doesn't have problem with game that was
> downloaded from back2roots.org?
Eh? Do you mean a problem with running the game or its legality? Try not to be
ambiguous in your statements (it saves time).
> >> Belive me some stuff is really hard to find, for example that penicillin
> >> kickstart, or whatever it was.
> > So what? It is illegal so don't ask others to break the law.
>
> Nobody forced anyone to do anything, you could skip that thread. Also can
> you find any legitimate way to get hold of that kickstart? Person just
> wanted to see it.
No there is no legitimate way since it is, by its nature, an illegal product. He
actually said he wanted a copy then later tried to back out by saying he only
wanted info on what it did. And where did I say someone was *forced*? Stop
making things up I said "don't ask others". I appreciate that English isn't your
native language but that still isn't an excuse for changing what is actually
said.
[snip]
> I believe that kickstarts from Cloanto CD will hardly work with WDHload.
You believe, right - have you tried them? NO. Nathan IIRC posted that he has
used them and they worked OK. Are you ignoring that post since it doesn't suit
your argument.
John Burns
> John Burns <jo...@grizo.free-onlinenojunk.co.uk> wrote:
> > Don't try to mis-represent what I said. I never claimed that the majority was
> > always right. I merely asked why the poster thought that his minority view
> > should overrule the majority held view.
>
> This is not about overruling other people's views. This is about 'the
> supposed majority' trying to force ridiculous rules on minority.
Get a grip Heikki, that is the way the world runs (as for "supposed" see later -
Oh yea, of little memory). Again I'll ask "why should the minority expect the
majority to acceed to *their* demands" - any chance of a lucid answer instead of
just pointing out that we should. Anyway, let's see in your country and mine
Muslims are in the minority so let's implement Shariah Law since that is what
the Muslims adhere to. No? didn't think so. ;)
> > Let's see, I should shut up. Why, because I hold a different opinion to
> > you or because I ask questions you are unable or unwilling to answer?
> > Either way it'd seem that you are the one trying to *force* others.
>
> You have totally lost track of the discussion. You are trying to force
> someone to do something. Look at what 'the other guy said'. Clearly he is
> not trying to force anyone, merely suggests to ignore postings that don't
> please your mind:
To ignore something is to grant it your approval by default. Therefore he is
asking me to force myself to do something which I disagree with. He is also
asking all those who oppose warez etc. requests to accede to their POV. Had he
the decency and manners to have actually read the FAQ before babbling on then
he'd have known what was considered on and off topic and could therefore have
made a valid decision on whether to post or not. I am merely asking D and the
others who may read this to have the good manners to comply with the groups
policy on posting. There is no force involved but an appeal to a posters sense
of right and wrong. If they choose to post what is perceived as wrong in spite
of the advice then that says more for their attitude to others rights than mine.
[snip]
> This totally implies 'you' are the majority and 'you' should dictate what is
> proper conduct around here.
Except you're ignoring that it's the majority view which was expressed in a vote
on the subject not that long ago and let's see; Oh yes, you were on the minority
(losing) side, what a surprise. Previously you snipped the parts I wrote which
didn't suit, and made mockery of, your argument now you insinuate that which you
know to be untrue (since you took part in the vote) - You really are acting the
prat just to prove you are right, are you not?
John Burns
> John Burns <jo...@grizo.free-onlinenojunk.co.uk> wrote:
> > So what is the point of having all these different NGs on Usenet then?
>
> When it comes to amiga games, i don't really see the point of having many
> groups. The volume of postings is low already. I would accept additional
> topics here.
I've stated before that I'm not that fussed about OT posts. However, there is a
difference IMO of an OT post which can be discussed and a warez post where the
poster has no interest in forming any sort of discussion but only seeks to break
the law by acquiring a bit of software for nothing.
In fact I recall even telling an adf requestor where he could buy a legal copy
of the game (for £3 as it happens) to which he replied that he wasn't interested
in buying anything for a dead computer (so much for preserving the culture -
unless it's a culture of piracy). And talking about preservation why don't we
ever get people asking for the crap games which are rare because they never sold
well. Funny that these warez (sorry, cultural preservationists) only seem to
want the games which are good to play. Wonder if there is some underlying reason
for this bias. As I once asked Joachim why don't these warez requestors return
once they've got their goods to join in and discuss the game. Could it perhaps
be that they have no interest in the "Amiga culture" but are solely driven by
more mundane and selfish motives such as getting something for nothing?
> > Someone coming to this group doesn't have the rules forced on them - by
> > their own volition in joining a group it is naturally assumed that they
> > understand and are willing to comply with the group's rules. If they don't
> > like them then they shouldn't enter. And ignorance of the rules is no
> > excuse either.
> There is nothing natural about that assumption.
And why not? Come on Heikki if you are going to gainsay my comment at least give
a legitimate reason for your viewpoint. It is reasonable to assume that someone
joining an organisation, club, society NG, etc. is willing to comply with the
pre-determined rules and guidelines which are in force. That someone comes here
and posts that which is not welcome is their own decision not something forced
on them by us. They decide what to post, not you or I. By doing so of course
they must accept that the responsibility for the post lies with them.
John Burns
> On 16-Jun-04 01:39:40, John Burns said
> >On 15 Jun 2004 22:45:39 +0000, "Angus Manwaring" wrote:
[snip]
> Sure, but I meant in context with his comment,"when you have problem with a
> game".
>
> As in, I can't for the life of me get Image Work's "Gravity" to work on my
> 040 system at anything like a decent frame rate, is it anything to do with
> how much chip memory is available?
>
> :)
I thought that's what you meant but since it was in reply to D I thought it best
that we clarify any ambiguity before it led to more nonsense argument. :)
Hidehiko Ogata
> The others just whine about where to get Amiga warez or how to run
> UAE.
Maybe we should just CFV alt.amiga.warez.whine.whine.whine and be done
with it =:).
--
// }{idehiko ()gata "I hope I didn't hurt you too much
\X/ Amiga since '86 when I killed you..." - Elmer Fudd
bekkoame is a classic Japanese candybar.
Heikki Orsila
> To ignore something is to grant it your approval by default. Therefore he is
> asking me to force myself to do something which I disagree with.
That is total bullshit.
Heikki Orsila
> And why not? Come on Heikki if you are going to gainsay my comment at
> least give a legitimate reason for your viewpoint.
Often people don't know rules, and sometimes they do not obey rules. They
join the organization to get something but may not be so interested in
harmony. It is actually more natural to break rule, since there are
usually more ways to break rules than to comply with them.
Eric Haines
> Maybe we should just CFV alt.amiga.warez.whine.whine.whine and be done
> with it =:).
Indeed. I vote yes. :)
--Eric
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
>> To ignore something is to grant it your approval by default. Therefore he is
>> asking me to force myself to do something which I disagree with.
> That is total bullshit.
I agree, such replies already have a name - it's called trolling.
Perfect example is this discussion, this thread would be a lot smaller if
people such as John would ignore it.
There is a possibility that this post could have just 4 answers.
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
>> The problem was that game wasn't working correctly.
> Wrong, the game works properly, as designed, from floppy (Joona admitted this).
> The problem is that the game wasn't designed to be run from HD and the WHDLoad
> patch requires that you have a KS 1.3 ROM for softkicking. This problem has
> nothing really to do with the actual game but with the HD patch and its
> requirements. Again you are making up your own arguments - stick to what was
> actually said and we may manage to get somewhere.
So what's wrong with trying to make the game more user friendly?
He owns original game, owns original Amiga, he have right to play that
game, the WHDLoad have a bug, which requires KS1.3 to install game on HD.
Yeah, it's a really big deal that he need to pay (whom?) to downgrade his
system to be able to play a game.
>>>> Of course you can try asking question on comp.emulators.misc, but there is
>>>> very slim chance to find amiga users there, and most likely they'll know the
>>>> solution.
>>> Come on now there are specific Amiga emulation groups.
>> Where?
> Read the FAQ - If you had done so then maybe you wouldn't be asking the same old
> questions :( (and getting the same old answers, too).
I'm not the only one who doesn't have access to alt.* groups.
They're a playground on usenet and many servers doesn't give access to
them, if there isn't something in original hierarchy then you should assume
it isn't.
> (BTW since you asked what a FAQ was (in another post) then one must assume that
> you don't know and therefore the question is begged as to how you can be arguing
> about something which you have no idea of?)
That was an rhetorical question.
FAQ should provide answers for common questions not outline a rules on
given newsgroup.
>> So how do you know that somebody doesn't have problem with game that was
>> downloaded from back2roots.org?
> Eh? Do you mean a problem with running the game or its legality? Try not to be
> ambiguous in your statements (it saves time).
It was late when I was writing it.
What I meant to say is what proof do you have that it's a legal software?
Why many (most?) games on back2roots.org are cracked versions?
What with games that company who created them doesn't exist anymore?
>> Nobody forced anyone to do anything, you could skip that thread. Also can
>> you find any legitimate way to get hold of that kickstart? Person just
>> wanted to see it.
> No there is no legitimate way since it is, by its nature, an illegal product. He
> actually said he wanted a copy then later tried to back out by saying he only
> wanted info on what it did. And where did I say someone was *forced*? Stop
> making things up I said "don't ask others". I appreciate that English isn't your
> native language but that still isn't an excuse for changing what is actually
> said.
I didn't say you forced someone, I said nobody forced YOU to provide him
that kickstart or give damn answer!
>> I believe that kickstarts from Cloanto CD will hardly work with WDHload.
> You believe, right - have you tried them? NO. Nathan IIRC posted that he has
> used them and they worked OK.
I never played with WHDLoad, but I know kickstarts from Cloanto are
protected by keyfiles, so I don't know if WHDLoad support that kind of
files.
Also I own original Amiga 1200, so I didn't need to buy that CD, I simply
used tools that were with UAE to extract it.
> Are you ignoring that post since it doesn't suit
> your argument.
I guess I missed it, what's msg-id of that post?
John Burns
> John Burns <jo...@grizo.free-onlinenojunk.co.uk> wrote:
> > To ignore something is to grant it your approval by default. Therefore he is
> > asking me to force myself to do something which I disagree with.
>
> That is total bullshit.
>
Yet again no reason given for your disagreement. Sorry, Heikki but if you don't
give some reason then it is just gainsay and to be ignored. Fact is that it is
not "bullshit" (as you so eloquently put it) and in many countries failure to
report a crime is actually a crime in itself. The only bullshit is in
disagreeing with others statements without offering any reason why.
John Burns
> John Burns <jo...@grizo.free-onlinenojunk.co.uk> wrote:
> > And why not? Come on Heikki if you are going to gainsay my comment at
> > least give a legitimate reason for your viewpoint.
>
> Often people don't know rules, and sometimes they do not obey rules. They
> join the organization to get something but may not be so interested in
> harmony. It is actually more natural to break rule, since there are usually
> more ways to break rules than to comply with them.
I agree but that does not exempt or excuse their actions. As you state they
choose whether to comply or not. No-one is forcing them as you earlier stated.
Given the above statement one does wonder what you are actually arguing about.
Don't you want harmony. :)
Heikki Orsila
> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:24:16 +0000 (UTC), Heikki Orsila wrote:
>> John Burns <jo...@grizo.free-onlinenojunk.co.uk> wrote:
>> > To ignore something is to grant it your approval by default. Therefore
>> > he is asking me to force myself to do something which I disagree with.
>>
>> That is total bullshit.
>>
> Yet again no reason given for your disagreement.
I would have thought the reason is totally obvious. There is probably a
million things in the world that you ignore because you do not have
the time to do something about, but you still don't approve those things.
This case is next to meaningless compared to bigger problems that you
ignore, but apparently you do have time for this ;) If I would not ignore
99% things I see in the net / media, I would spend my whole life writing
factual and political statements. But even if I ignore those things, I
do not approve them!
Heikki Orsila
> I agree but that does not exempt or excuse their actions. As you state they
> choose whether to comply or not. No-one is forcing them as you earlier
> stated. Given the above statement one does wonder what you are actually
> arguing about. Don't you want harmony. :)
I agree it's not good an excuse. And sure I do want some harmony :-) I would
hope that these arguments more or less try to achieve harmony in the long
run, because I don't see this subject going away without it.. I can see a few
solutions here:
- there is actual harmony
- there is ignorance
- there is flame wars
- any combination of the above
- there is no csag (oh no!)
colin
John Burns <jo...@grizo.free-onlineNOJUNK.co.uk> wrote in message
news:966514528054158...@news.free-online.net...
Everyone appreciates your anti-piracy on the amiga:-), even if it`s about
ten years too late;)within this group; but the true fact is that each and
every one of your amiga games were hacked/pirated very much shortly after
they were released to the public, within a short period of time.(found some
history about the amiga/c64 piracy on google)
Stuart Wilson
"colin" <colm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2jg701F...@uni-berlin.de...
> Everyone appreciates your anti-piracy on the amiga:-), even if it`s about
> ten years too late;)within this group; but the true fact is that each and
> every one of your amiga games were hacked/pirated very much shortly after
> they were released to the public, within a short period of time.(found
some
> history about the amiga/c64 piracy on google)
I believe the AP2 website has an article on the piracy of games and other
software for the Amiga and the general gist was that developers had decided
long before that development should concentrate on the far more lucrative
console market (at the time).
Piracy effectively had little to do with the downfall of the Amiga -
Commodore's pisspoor management and the abandoning of the platform, almost
arbitrarily (profit-related) were primary issues. Piracy was used as a
rather convenient argument.
--
Stuart Wilson
colin
Angus Manwaring
>On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:24:16 +0000 (UTC), Heikki Orsila wrote:
>>> To ignore something is to grant it your approval by default. Therefore he
>>> is asking me to force myself to do something which I disagree with.
>> That is total bullshit.
>I agree, such replies already have a name - it's called trolling.
>Perfect example is this discussion, this thread would be a lot smaller if
>people such as John would ignore it.
You mean people who disagree with you?
colin
Angus Manwaring <angus@angusm_ANTISPEM_.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:778.665T1410T10224385angus@angusm_ANTISPEM_.demon.co.uk...
> On 18-Jun-04 00:59:43, Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa said
> >On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:24:16 +0000 (UTC), Heikki Orsila wrote:
>
> >>> To ignore something is to grant it your approval by default. Therefore
he
> >>> is asking me to force myself to do something which I disagree with.
> >> That is total bullshit.
>
> >I agree, such replies already have a name - it's called trolling.
>
> >Perfect example is this discussion, this thread would be a lot smaller if
> >people such as John would ignore it.
>
> You mean people who disagree with you?
>
>
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
>>I agree, such replies already have a name - it's called trolling.
>>Perfect example is this discussion, this thread would be a lot smaller if
>>people such as John would ignore it.
> You mean people who disagree with you?
No, I'm *not* talking about discussion with me, I'm talking about:
| You ignore the fact that you have bought a product (DM) which wasn't designed to
| run on an A4000. It has nothing to do with the whims of the WHDLoad writer. By
| your argument it follows that if you buy a Mac game then you are entitled to the
| Mac ROMs. Come on Joona you programme stuff and are pretty intelligent so please
| don't insult our intelligence or do yourself such a dis-service with such a
| silly argument. That aside why post the request here you know the policy -
| you're hardly a newbie.
or:
| Oh yeah, by the way Tim, this isn't really the right newsgroup
| to be asking that kind of thing. ..Um, you might want to try
| alt.orange.the.world.revolves.around.me.flonk.flonk.flonk ..I
| hear there are people there who will help you get *anything*
| <nudge nudge, wink wink> :)
|
| Nope, sorry, I don't get bored. I just love being helpful.
| Hey, so when you say "help" to people, do you lift your hands up
| by your head and make those wee "ditto" gestures? I bet you do,
| don't you? Huh? Huh?!? ;P
If somebody doesn't know the answer for question, or doesn't want to help
it's better just to ignore the post than replaying to it and starting a
discussion.
--
tak...@IRCnet.EFnet, ICQ# 15827691, TLEN: taked4
John Burns
> On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 20:24:16 +0000 (UTC), Heikki Orsila wrote:
>
> >> To ignore something is to grant it your approval by default. Therefore he is
> >> asking me to force myself to do something which I disagree with.
> > That is total bullshit.
>
> I agree, such replies already have a name - it's called trolling.
Wouldn't you say that posting utter unsubstantiated rubbish (as you have) just
to keep arguing isn't a form of trolling?
> Perfect example is this discussion, this thread would be a lot smaller if
> people such as John would ignore it.
And such discussions wouldn't happen at all if people had the good manners to
adhere to this groups posting policy.
> There is a possibility that this post could have just 4 answers.
Four words would be easier:
F**k off lazy pirates.
John Burns
I would have thought the reason is totally obvious. There is probably a
> million things in the world that you ignore because you do not have the
> time to do something about, but you still don't approve those things. This
> case is next to meaningless compared to bigger problems that you ignore, but
> apparently you do have time for this ;) If I would not ignore 99% things I
> see in the net / media, I would spend my whole life writing factual and
> political statements. But even if I ignore those things, I do not approve
> them!
Fair enough and I agree to a point, let me expand. I don't agree with religion
but I don't bother going to their websites etc. to argue and expose the idiocies
of their belief systems. However, when they post here (as they have in the past)
then I feel it is legitimate to argue with them. Likewise, if people choose to
pirate I do not chase after them but by the same token I have a perfect right to
reply to their postings here. Yes it is asking me to force myself to do
something which I don't wish to by ignoring them and if we ignore such posts
then the casual reader (who probably also won't have read the FAQ) sees that
such warez posts are only replied to positively so must therefore be OK. I
realise that this is what you'd like to happen but sorry to disappoint I won't
"shut-up" or "ignore" just because it suits the POV which you and D have towards
piracy.
John Burns
> John Burns <jo...@grizo.free-onlinenojunk.co.uk> wrote:
> - there is actual harmony
Only for limited periods :)
> - there is ignorance
Undoubtedly :(
> - there is flame wars
Probably :(
> - any combination of the above
Most likely :)
> - there is no csag (oh no!)
Doubtful
John Burns
> Everyone appreciates your anti-piracy on the amiga:-), even if it`s about
> ten years too late;)within this group; but the true fact is that each and
> every one of your amiga games were hacked/pirated very much shortly after
> they were released to the public, within a short period of time.(found some
> history about the amiga/c64 piracy on google)
That's not the point Colin, I don't care about what people do in private and we
all know about piracy (then and now). What I am arguing against is using and
turning this NG into some sort of warez BB.
John Burns
> If somebody doesn't know the answer for question, or doesn't want to help
> it's better just to ignore the post than replaying to it and starting a
> discussion.
Like you came here to discuss an Amiga game, righto. You are the one who has
continued this discussion long after Joona dropped it - He has posted on topic
since, as have I - Please do point out the last on topic post you made.
John Burns
> On 17 Jun 2004 01:52:51 +0100, John Burns wrote:
> So what's wrong with trying to make the game more user friendly? He owns
Nothing and no-one said there was anything wrong with installing it on HD. Again
you make up an argument that never existed.
> original game, owns original Amiga, he have right to play that game, the
So, he can play the original game
> WHDLoad have a bug, which requires KS1.3 to install game on HD.
No WHDLoad doesn't have a bug AFAIK that's just the way the install was made.
> Yeah, it's a really big deal that he need to pay (whom?) to downgrade his
> system to be able to play a game.
Well, legally it is the Amiga KS ROMs are Copyright - What you think about this
is just your opinion and has no bearing.
> I'm not the only one who doesn't have access to alt.* groups. They're a
> playground on usenet and many servers doesn't give access to them, if there
Many others do - if you need to use alt groups then find an ISP that offers
them. If you don't then you're just being lazy. Actually given the rubbish that
you're offering as argument then I'd say it's unfortunate that you have access
to any NG.
> isn't something in original hierarchy then you should assume it isn't.
Then your assumption would be wrong wouldn't it.
> > (BTW since you asked what a FAQ was (in another post) then one must assume that
> > you don't know and therefore the question is begged as to how you can be arguing
> > about something which you have no idea of?)
>
> That was an rhetorical question.
> FAQ should provide answers for common questions not outline a rules on given
> newsgroup.
If an OT question is asked frequently then it is right to put it on the FAQ.
> >> So how do you know that somebody doesn't have problem with game that was
> >> downloaded from back2roots.org?
> > Eh? Do you mean a problem with running the game or its legality? Try not to be
> > ambiguous in your statements (it saves time).
>
> It was late when I was writing it.
> What I meant to say is what proof do you have that it's a legal software?
Well I know for a fact that they had (since they provided it) a copy of the game
which I helped get permission for. Of course till the written permission was
received they did not make it available for downloading. Why would they do this
if all they want is a warez site. Anyway I'm sure that if you asked them about
any of the games which they have they could provide you a copy of the written
permission. You'd have to ask them of course, not myself.
> Why many (most?) games on back2roots.org are cracked versions? What with
Couple of reasons that I know of (there may well be and probably are more)
1. Because many of the games are old, the only versions that the guys could get
hold of where cracked ones.
2. Only cracked versions could be converted to adf due to disk protection.
> games that company who created them doesn't exist anymore?
Just because the publisher is gone doesn't mean there is no-one to authorise the
release of the game. The publisher doesn't necessarily (and often no longer)
hold the Copyright.
BTW As an aside I would be very careful about what you say regarding the
legality of BttR as some of you comment is veering very close to libelous. I'd
suggest that unless you have proof that they are illegal, as you insinuate,
you'd be best to drop it.
> >> Nobody forced anyone to do anything, you could skip that thread. Also can
> >> you find any legitimate way to get hold of that kickstart? Person just
> >> wanted to see it
.
> > No there is no legitimate way since it is, by its nature, an illegal product. He
> > actually said he wanted a copy then later tried to back out by saying he only
> > wanted info on what it did. And where did I say someone was *forced*? Stop
> > making things up I said "don't ask others". I appreciate that English isn't your
> > native language but that still isn't an excuse for changing what is actually
> > said.
>
> I didn't say you forced someone, I said nobody forced YOU to provide him
> that kickstart or give damn answer!
But you are telling me that I should ignore his illegal activity - something
which is illegal in itself in my country. So if I do as you say then you'd have
forced me to break the law. Tell you what, let me know what country you're from
and I'll check if you have a similar law.
> >> I believe that kickstarts from Cloanto CD will hardly work with WDHload.
> > You believe, right - have you tried them? NO. Nathan IIRC posted that he has
> > used them and they worked OK.
> I never played with WHDLoad, but I know kickstarts from Cloanto are
> protected by keyfiles, so I don't know if WHDLoad support that kind of
> files.
Nathan has already stated that they do work. Sheesh.... Must one come round
your house and show you it working in person for you to accept you are talking
rubbish just to keep some inane excuse for pirating the KS ROMs going.
> Also I own original Amiga 1200, so I didn't need to buy that CD, I simply
> used tools that were with UAE to extract it.
LOL Since the KS in question is 1.3 I'd love to know how you managed to get that
from an A1200. Once again you show that you are just arguing for the sake of it.
One wonders if you actually have a real Amiga or if you're just a little pirate
telling fibs.
> > Are you ignoring that post since it doesn't suit
> > your argument.
>
> I guess I missed it, what's msg-id of that post?
Look if you can't keep up with the conversation then that's your tough luck. It
was only a couple of days ago - stop being lazy and check back yourself. It took
me less than 3 secs to find the relevant post. Anyway it matters not since by
your own admission you admit that you've never tried or owned the subject ROMs
so anything you say regarding them has to be taken with a pinch of salt (and a
large one at that). Yet another example of just saying whatever you feel like to
keep arguing.
John Burns
I agree but I've also felt that many Amiga users had a hand in it due to their
refusal to upgrade their machine. PC users were always to a much greater extent
locked into the "upgrade cycle" and like it or not it did help their platform.
However, one only needs look at just about any of the letters pages in the Amiga
mags to see the many whingers who'd complain that the coverdisks didn't work on
their 512k A500. IIRC CU Amiga included on their final cover CD just what
they'd have liked to have really said to these people (It wasn't polite :) ).
Angus Manwaring
>Everyone appreciates your anti-piracy on the amiga:-), even if it`s about
>ten years too late;)within this group; but the true fact is that each and
>every one of your amiga games were hacked/pirated very much shortly after
>they were released to the public, within a short period of time.(found some
>history about the amiga/c64 piracy on google)
Congratulations, and your point is?
Angus Manwaring
>On 18 Jun 2004 17:2:28 +0000, Angus Manwaring wrote:
>>>I agree, such replies already have a name - it's called trolling.
>>>Perfect example is this discussion, this thread would be a lot smaller if
>>>people such as John would ignore it.
>> You mean people who disagree with you?
>No, I'm *not* talking about discussion with me, I'm talking about:
>If somebody doesn't know the answer for question, or doesn't want to help
>it's better just to ignore the post than replaying to it and starting a
>discussion.
That's a point of view. Another is that when requests for copyright
materials are made a follow-up should be made pointing out that is is not
appropriate to this group. Otherwise you give the impression that is
accepted practice, and it snowballs.
Most of the regulars have got the T-shirt, several times over.
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
> Fair enough and I agree to a point, let me expand. I don't agree with religion
> but I don't bother going to their websites etc. to argue and expose the idiocies
> of their belief systems. However, when they post here (as they have in the past)
> then I feel it is legitimate to argue with them. Likewise, if people choose to
> pirate I do not chase after them but by the same token I have a perfect right to
> reply to their postings here. Yes it is asking me to force myself to do
> something which I don't wish to by ignoring them and if we ignore such posts
> then the casual reader (who probably also won't have read the FAQ) sees that
> such warez posts are only replied to positively so must therefore be OK. I
> realise that this is what you'd like to happen but sorry to disappoint I won't
> "shut-up" or "ignore" just because it suits the POV which you and D have towards
> piracy.
lol
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
>> I agree, such replies already have a name - it's called trolling.
> Wouldn't you say that posting utter unsubstantiated rubbish (as you have) just
> to keep arguing isn't a form of trolling?
You started that discussion I just joined in, so I would rather call you
troll :)
>> Perfect example is this discussion, this thread would be a lot smaller if
>> people such as John would ignore it.
> And such discussions wouldn't happen at all if people had the good manners to
> adhere to this groups posting policy.
Policy? Yeah, point at the word in group description that's says it's
forbidden.
>> There is a possibility that this post could have just 4 answers.
> Four words would be easier:
> F**k off lazy pirates.
0 words from you would even had better effect :)
--
tak...@IRCnet.EFnet, ICQ# 15827691, TLEN: taked4
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
>> So what's wrong with trying to make the game more user friendly? He owns
> Nothing and no-one said there was anything wrong with installing it on HD. Again
> you make up an argument that never existed.
>
>> original game, owns original Amiga, he have right to play that game, the
> So, he can play the original game
>
>> WHDLoad have a bug, which requires KS1.3 to install game on HD.
> No WHDLoad doesn't have a bug AFAIK that's just the way the install was made.
game seem to work from floppies with his kickstart, and requires ks1.3 to
allow playing from HD. Don't you think that's bug? Yeah, actually microsoft
would call it a feature.
>> Yeah, it's a really big deal that he need to pay (whom?) to downgrade his
>> system to be able to play a game.
> Well, legally it is the Amiga KS ROMs are Copyright - What you think about this
> is just your opinion and has no bearing.
He already owns original Amiga, so he paid for kickstart. He won't gain any
advantages from downgrading to older kickstart (from 1985 - 20 years old),
but at least it would help him to play the game.
I don't know how he solved that problem, I know that at least he got that
kickstart by e-mail from one person.
>> I'm not the only one who doesn't have access to alt.* groups. They're a
>> playground on usenet and many servers doesn't give access to them, if there
> Many others do - if you need to use alt groups then find an ISP that offers
> them. If you don't then you're just being lazy. Actually given the rubbish that
> you're offering as argument then I'd say it's unfortunate that you have access
> to any NG.
Maybe that's good explanation how really alt.* hierarchy works:
http://tinyurl.com/2zulx
>> isn't something in original hierarchy then you should assume it isn't.
> Then your assumption would be wrong wouldn't it.
look above
>> That was an rhetorical question.
>> FAQ should provide answers for common questions not outline a rules on given
>> newsgroup.
> If an OT question is asked frequently then it is right to put it on the FAQ.
Yeah, and to determine if question is offtopic or not is based on newsgroup
description.
>> It was late when I was writing it.
>> What I meant to say is what proof do you have that it's a legal software?
> Well I know for a fact that they had (since they provided it) a copy of the game
> which I helped get permission for. Of course till the written permission was
> received they did not make it available for downloading. Why would they do this
> if all they want is a warez site. Anyway I'm sure that if you asked them about
> any of the games which they have they could provide you a copy of the written
> permission. You'd have to ask them of course, not myself.
What about companies that doesn't exist anymore?
>> Why many (most?) games on back2roots.org are cracked versions? What with
> Couple of reasons that I know of (there may well be and probably are more)
>
> 1. Because many of the games are old, the only versions that the guys could get
> hold of where cracked ones.
> 2. Only cracked versions could be converted to adf due to disk protection.
Did the company who gave permission couldn't provide original version?
>> games that company who created them doesn't exist anymore?
> Just because the publisher is gone doesn't mean there is no-one to authorise the
> release of the game. The publisher doesn't necessarily (and often no longer)
> hold the Copyright.
>
> BTW As an aside I would be very careful about what you say regarding the
> legality of BttR as some of you comment is veering very close to libelous. I'd
> suggest that unless you have proof that they are illegal, as you insinuate,
> you'd be best to drop it.
I never said they're distributing pirated games, those all were questions
since I wasn't sure how it works.
>> I didn't say you forced someone, I said nobody forced YOU to provide him
>> that kickstart or give damn answer!
> But you are telling me that I should ignore his illegal activity - something
> which is illegal in itself in my country. So if I do as you say then you'd have
> forced me to break the law. Tell you what, let me know what country you're from
> and I'll check if you have a similar law.
No I'm asking you to stop trolling, it doesn't help anybody.
Companies doesn't sell software anymore, and people who ask for pirated
software will get it anyway, you're just starting a stupid discussion.
>> I never played with WHDLoad, but I know kickstarts from Cloanto are
>> protected by keyfiles, so I don't know if WHDLoad support that kind of
>> files.
> Nathan has already stated that they do work. Sheesh.... Must one come round
> your house and show you it working in person for you to accept you are talking
> rubbish just to keep some inane excuse for pirating the KS ROMs going.
When? I asked before, but didn't get reply.
>> Also I own original Amiga 1200, so I didn't need to buy that CD, I simply
>> used tools that were with UAE to extract it.
> LOL Since the KS in question is 1.3 I'd love to know how you managed to get that
> from an A1200. Once again you show that you are just arguing for the sake of it.
> One wonders if you actually have a real Amiga or if you're just a little pirate
> telling fibs.
Is it me who needed kickstart 1.3?
Did I say that I use 1.3 under UAE?
>>> Are you ignoring that post since it doesn't suit
>>> your argument.
>> I guess I missed it, what's msg-id of that post?
> Look if you can't keep up with the conversation then that's your tough luck.
If you cannot point it, you probably cannot find it either.
--
tak...@IRCnet.EFnet, ICQ# 15827691, TLEN: taked4
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
>> If somebody doesn't know the answer for question, or doesn't want to help
>> it's better just to ignore the post than replaying to it and starting a
>> discussion.
> Like you came here to discuss an Amiga game, righto. You are the one who has
> continued this discussion long after Joona dropped it - He has posted on topic
> since, as have I - Please do point out the last on topic post you made.
I was reading and was quiet, but after seeing more and more of your posts I
couldn't hold it :)
Dariusz Kuliński / TaKeDa
> That's a point of view. Another is that when requests for copyright
> materials are made a follow-up should be made pointing out that is is not
> appropriate to this group. Otherwise you give the impression that is
> accepted practice, and it snowballs.
Don't you think that you "little bit" (like 10 years) late to enforce that,
it doesn't help anybody today.
John Burns
> On 19 Jun 2004 05:04:00 +0100, John Burns wrote:
> game seem to work from floppies with his kickstart, and requires ks1.3 to
> allow playing from HD. Don't you think that's bug? Yeah, actually microsoft
> would call it a feature.
No I wouldn't call it a bug. There may be some technical reason why the WHDLoad
installer requires KS1.3. I'm not the one who made it so I can't say why it is
so - I also suspect that like with every other argument you have made to say it
is is just more supposition on your behalf.
> >> Yeah, it's a really big deal that he need to pay (whom?) to downgrade his
> >> system to be able to play a game.
> > Well, legally it is the Amiga KS ROMs are Copyright - What you think about this
> > is just your opinion and has no bearing.
>
> He already owns original Amiga, so he paid for kickstart. He won't gain any
He paid for KS3.1 not KS1.3
> advantages from downgrading to older kickstart (from 1985 - 20 years old),
LOL, I see you can't count either. One advantage of course would be that he
could play the game. Once more, why don't you read the rubbish you write before
posting?
> >> isn't something in original hierarchy then you should assume it isn't.
> > Then your assumption would be wrong wouldn't it.
>
> look above
Irrelevent to what you were arguing. How it works is of no consequence to your
being able to find an ISP which supplies it.
> Yeah, and to determine if question is offtopic or not is based on newsgroup
> description.
Yes this is a NG devoted to games on the Amiga not about stealing of Copyright
material, an illegal activity in both of our countries, therefore it is Off
Topic. Note a KS is not a game but part of the OS. If a paedophile were to post
here asking for illegal material to satisfy his wants would you say we should
ignore it? - Granted it is a much more serious crime in most peoples eyes but
the principle is the same.
> >> It was late when I was writing it.
> >> What I meant to say is what proof do you have that it's a legal software?
> > Well I know for a fact that they had (since they provided it) a copy of the game
> > which I helped get permission for. Of course till the written permission was
> > received they did not make it available for downloading. Why would they do this
> > if all they want is a warez site. Anyway I'm sure that if you asked them about
> > any of the games which they have they could provide you a copy of the written
> > permission. You'd have to ask them of course, not myself.
>
> What about companies that doesn't exist anymore?
>
> >> Why many (most?) games on back2roots.org are cracked versions? What with
> > Couple of reasons that I know of (there may well be and probably are more)
> >
> > 1. Because many of the games are old, the only versions that the guys could get
> > hold of where cracked ones.
> > 2. Only cracked versions could be converted to adf due to disk protection.
>
> Did the company who gave permission couldn't provide original version?
Frequently they no longer have any copies or even the original masters.
> >> games that company who created them doesn't exist anymore?
> > Just because the publisher is gone doesn't mean there is no-one to authorise the
> > release of the game. The publisher doesn't necessarily (and often no longer)
> > hold the Copyright.
> >
> > BTW As an aside I would be very careful about what you say regarding the
> > legality of BttR as some of you comment is veering very close to libelous. I'd
> > suggest that unless you have proof that they are illegal, as you insinuate,
> > you'd be best to drop it.
>
> I never said they're distributing pirated games, those all were questions
> since I wasn't sure how it works.
You were insinuating it by making the statements you did. Why don't you go to
their website and try reading what they say about the games they distribute
before letting your mouth run off with dubious unsubstantiated conjecture. FYI
to be guilty of libel you do not need to say they actually are doing something
wrong. An insinuation such as you made if it were to cause harm or damage to
their character, actual or perceived, can be seen as libelous. Anyway why do you
keep asking me, go to their site and email them with your concerns/questions.
> No I'm asking you to stop trolling, it doesn't help anybody. Companies
I keep asking you to stop talking rubbish - hasn't stopped you though, has it?
> doesn't sell software anymore, and people who ask for pirated software will
> get it anyway, you're just starting a stupid discussion.
Really, by posting in support of what you know is regarded as OT for this
newsgroup - posts which you know will elicit a hostile response it is you who
are the troll. You have already been informed that the KS ROMs are still on sale
- again you ignore the truth just to continue the argument - is that trollish or
what! If I were a troll then surely I'd be posting on groups that allow warez
trading against such practice - please provide the proof that I have been doing
so.
> Is it me who needed kickstart 1.3?
> Did I say that I use 1.3 under UAE?
No, but I'd bet you do and also that you don't legally own it either. However,
the discussion has been about a KS1.3 ROM not 3.0/3.1 so at best your comment
was irrelevant. Can't be that useful anyway using UAE with the same KS as your
real Amiga since it won't give you much better compatibility with games which
you won't run on the A1200.
> >>> Are you ignoring that post since it doesn't suit
> >>> your argument.
> >> I guess I missed it, what's msg-id of that post?
> > Look if you can't keep up with the conversation then that's your tough luck.
> If you cannot point it, you probably cannot find it either.
Maybe I'm just toying with you to demonstrate just how lazy and silly you are.
Let's see - Oh, found it in under 3 seconds again. What a loser. Funny thing is
that I've just had a look at the UAE archives/sites and lo and behold what do I
find but many references to obtaining your ROMs from the Cloanto CD. Seems odd
that the guys who program UAE would recommend something which doesn't work with
their program. Given that you are a UAE user then surely you'd have seen these,
doh! (Oops sorry, Homer's stupidity is at least amusing whilst yours is of the
boring and embarassing kind).
John Burns
> On 19 Jun 2004 02:09:08 +0100, John Burns wrote:
>
> You started that discussion I just joined in, so I would rather call you
> troll :)
I know sticking to the facts isn't your forte but it was Joona who made the
original post to which I replied (and I wasn't even the first to do so) so I
can't be accused of starting it. You really do seem set on proving yourself
silly, in which endeavour of course, I'm only too happy to aid you. Rather nice
of me don't you think. :) See I can be helpful.
> Policy? Yeah, point at the word in group description that's says it's
> forbidden.
Semantics, likewise can you point out where it says paedophelia is forbidden. Or
do you say that such posts should be allowed. Both are illegal practices after
all.
> >> There is a possibility that this post could have just 4 answers.
> > Four words would be easier:
> > F**k off lazy pirates.
>
> 0 words from you would even had better effect :)
Oooh, I do feel chastised. ;)
John Burns
> On 19 Jun 2004 02:50:05 +0100, John Burns wrote:
>
> >> If somebody doesn't know the answer for question, or doesn't want to help
> >> it's better just to ignore the post than replaying to it and starting a
> >> discussion.
> > Like you came here to discuss an Amiga game, righto. You are the one who has
> > continued this discussion long after Joona dropped it - He has posted on topic
> > since, as have I - Please do point out the last on topic post you made.
>
> I was reading and was quiet, but after seeing more and more of your posts I
> couldn't hold it :)
ROTFLMAO (Sorry if that's too many letters for you)
Oh I see so it is only others who should ignore and keep quiet on the posts they
disagree with - such "sound" advice naturally doesn't apply to yourself then.
BTW are you trying to say that you were masturbating while reading my posts? If
so, then I'm glad that you find my writing so arousing. ;) I do so like to
bring pleasure to others.
John Burns
> On 18 Jun 2004 22:50:29 +0000, Angus Manwaring wrote:
>
> > That's a point of view. Another is that when requests for copyright
> > materials are made a follow-up should be made pointing out that is is not
> > appropriate to this group. Otherwise you give the impression that is
> > accepted practice, and it snowballs.
>
> Don't you think that you "little bit" (like 10 years) late to enforce that,
> it doesn't help anybody today.
>
No-one here is enforcing anything merely saying that if one wants to break the
law in this way that they do so in private and not on this public NG. Is that
such a hard concept for you to grasp?
Angus Manwaring
>On 18 Jun 2004 22:50:29 +0000, Angus Manwaring wrote:
>> That's a point of view. Another is that when requests for copyright
>> materials are made a follow-up should be made pointing out that is is not
>> appropriate to this group. Otherwise you give the impression that is
>> accepted practice, and it snowballs.
>Don't you think that you "little bit" (like 10 years) late to enforce that,
>it doesn't help anybody today.
No. You are still missing the point.
It is not about what part piracy played in the Amiga's history or when it
played it.
The concern is for this newsgroup's content.
colin
> On 18-Jun-04 12:55:11, colin said
>
> >Everyone appreciates your anti-piracy on the amiga:-), even if it`s about
> >ten years too late;)within this group; but the true fact is that each and
> >every one of your amiga games were hacked/pirated very much shortly after
> >they were released to the public, within a short period of time.(found
some
> >history about the amiga/c64 piracy on google)
>
>
> Congratulations, and your point is?
>
your beloved amiga, when it was already done so many years ago?
There won`t be any come back of the amiga as anything useful in this
century..Err maybe in the next millenium:)