DOWNLOAD AMIGA QUAKE!!!
Darren Evans
You may now download Amiga Quake from
=--=--=QUAKE=--=--=QUAKE=--=--=QUAKE=--=--=QUAKE
http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
=--=--=QUAKE=--=--=QUAKE=--=--=QUAKE=--=--=QUAKE
// Supporting All
\X/ Amiga o/s Systems
=====================
32-BiT CD-ROM USERGROUP
webm...@digitalarts.demon.co.uk
http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
Neil Bothwick
Darren Evans said,
> You may now download Amiga Quake from
> http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
whether this is a legal port of Quake.
Neil
--
Neil Bothwick, Warrington, England - CU Amiga CD compiler
Connected via Wirenet - The UK's first Amiga-only internet access provider
mailto:in...@wirenet.co.uk http://www.wirenet.co.uk
--
Without Time Everything Would Happen At Once!
Stefan Boberg
Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
>> You may now download Amiga Quake from
>> http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
>Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
>whether this is a legal port of Quake.
No, it's not.
--
=====================================================================
Stefan Boberg Vrooooom With a View... bob...@team17.com
Rob Roy Jones
From what I gathered, ID has said they know about
the Amiga port and will allow it, but will in no way
support it.
Just what I heard.
-Rob
On 4 Apr 1997, Neil Bothwick wrote:
> Stefan Boberg said,
>
> > Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>> You may now download Amiga Quake from
>
> >>> http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
>
> >>Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
> >>whether this is a legal port of Quake.
>
> > No, it's not.
>
> That's what I suspected, but why has Urban allowed it to be uploaded
> to Aminet in that case?
>
> It seems that no one at ID Software is prepared to comment either way.
>
>
> Neil
> --
> Neil Bothwick, Warrington, England - CU Amiga CD compiler
> Connected via Wirenet - The UK's first Amiga-only internet access provider
> mailto:in...@wirenet.co.uk http://www.wirenet.co.uk
> --
> If a stealth bomber crashes in a forest, will it make a sound?
>
>
>
**************************************************
Rob Jones 1-512-823-6837 t/l 793-6837 KC5KSE
IBM Global Services Distributed Storage Management
Jorn Hansson
Darren Evans wrote:
> =
> You may now download Amiga Quake from
> =
> =3D--=3D--=3DQUAKE=3D--=3D--=3DQUAKE=3D--=3D--=3DQUAKE=3D--=3D--=3DQUAK=
E
> =
> http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
> =
> =3D--=3D--=3DQUAKE=3D--=3D--=3DQUAKE=3D--=3D--=3DQUAKE=3D--=3D--=3DQUAK=
E
> =
> // Supporting All
> \X/ Amiga o/s Systems
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D
> 32-BiT CD-ROM USERGROUP
> =
> webm...@digitalarts.demon.co.uk
> http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
Why don't you state which version it is? And I don't
think the "iD-statement" is by iD at all...in that
case it should be on their site, don't you think?
It isn't.
/J=F6rn Hansson
Sadi Madulino
On 04 Apr 1997 01:09:14 Ryooshi wrote about "Re: DOWNLOAD AMIGA QUAKE!!":
>
> Stefan Boberg (bob...@team17.com) wrote:
> : Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> : >> You may now download Amiga Quake from
>
> : >> http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
>
> : >Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
> : >whether this is a legal port of Quake.
>
> : No, it's not.
>
> Wait a mintute, wait minute... I've heard it said SEVERAL times that this
> 'port' is NOT a port of the actual game! You still have to get the game!
> AFAIK, this is not a 'Myst' situation. Why would you still have to get the
> original game then?
>
> Even if this 'port' somehow managed to *patch* everything to Amiga code, I
> don't see what the problem would be even then. You'd still have to get the
> game, period. It's a win-win situation for both parties. If anything, ID
> would end up making even more money from Amiga users!
I totally agree. Why would ID give a damn about this executable on the Amiga.
As
you state anyone who wanted to seriously play the game will have to buy the
game! With absolutely no effort of expenditures on their part they will sell
*more* games. It would be foolish for them to even attempt to stop this port or
a Mac port or whatever. People are still going to have to buy their PC game!
Robert Robson
In a message dated Thu 3 Apr 97 06:02, Darren Evans <dar...@digitalarts.de
wrote:
DE> You may now download Amiga Quake from
DE> =--=--=QUAKE=--=--=QUAKE=--=--=QUAKE=--=--=QUAKE
DE> http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
DE> =--=--=QUAKE=--=--=QUAKE=--=--=QUAKE=--=--=QUAKE
DE> // Supporting All
DE> \X/ Amiga o/s Systems
DE> =====================
DE> 32-BiT CD-ROM USERGROUP
DE> webm...@digitalarts.demon.co.uk
DE> http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
OR you can get it off of AMINET
Robert Robson Vancouver Canada
-- Via DLG Pro v1.15
Ryooshi
: >> You may now download Amiga Quake from
tim
>Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> You may now download Amiga Quake from
>>> http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
>>Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
>>whether this is a legal port of Quake.
> No, it's not.
............. YET :)
Tim
Neil Bothwick
Stefan Boberg said,
> Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
> No, it's not.
That's what I suspected, but why has Urban allowed it to be uploaded
Jason Compton
Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
:
: Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
: whether this is a legal port of Quake.
I didn't think that was ever in question. It's decidedly not.
--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com
Editor-in-Chief, Amiga Report Magazine (847) 741-0689 FAX
AR on Aminet - docs/mags/ar???.lha WWW - http://www.cucug.org/ar/
The sands of time were eroded by... the river of constant change.
Johan Forsberg
Ryooshi wrote:
>
> Stefan Boberg (bob...@team17.com) wrote:
> : Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> : >> You may now download Amiga Quake from
>
> : >> http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
>
> : >whether this is a legal port of Quake.
>
>
> Wait a mintute, wait minute... I've heard it said SEVERAL times that this
> 'port' is NOT a port of the actual game! You still have to get the game!
> AFAIK, this is not a 'Myst' situation. Why would you still have to get the
> original game then?
>
(sound/gfx/level)
datafile.
The Amiga version is just the executable program.
However, it still a direct port, because it's based on iD's actual
(copyrighted) source code, which was stolen from their server.
Apparently iD will overlook this, but will not support the Amiga port.
This is very reasonable of them, after all they'll make some money off
Amiga Quake...
--
<--/---\------78-cols-----------------^-----Your-Name-Here------Something---->
/ Small*<-Perth Make Your Very 4 rows em...@address.here witty some
dead
/ Ascii \ Own Signature File! | Profession Here guy once
said
\ Picture / Follow The Instructions v Other Personal Info here
Neil Bothwick
Ryooshi said,
> Stefan Boberg (bob...@team17.com) wrote:
>: Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
>: >Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
>: >whether this is a legal port of Quake.
>: No, it's not.
> Wait a mintute, wait minute... I've heard it said SEVERAL times that this
> 'port' is NOT a port of the actual game! You still have to get the game!
> AFAIK, this is not a 'Myst' situation. Why would you still have to get the
> original game then?
For the data files. AmiQuake is, allegedly, a port of the original
Quake source, which is why it works with the PC data files.
It is interesting that ID are apparently not commenting directly on
this, despite having been contacted about it.
Neil
--
Neil Bothwick, Warrington, England - CU Amiga CD compiler
Connected via Wirenet - The UK's first Amiga-only internet access provider
mailto:in...@wirenet.co.uk http://www.wirenet.co.uk
--
Am I ignorant or apathetic? I don't know and don't care!
Neil Bothwick
w4gs said,
> The version of AmiQuake that was posted to Aminet is _NOT_ some sort of
> release from iD software. They know about it, but don't condemn it either.
> In a press release they stated..:
> "... we know that there exists a port of Quake to the Amiga. We don't
> condone, nor do we condemn this version. We don't feel, at this time, that
> it is a platform worth supporting..."
But was this actually from ID? CU amiga have been trying to get an
answer from them and failed.
> AmiQuake requires the shareware/registered version of Quake (The real PC
> version on CD) to work. And, it is for this reason that iD hasn't
> tried to put a lid on it. They figure that they will have more sales, from
> all the Amiga users trying to get it going. Actually, to get it working is
> somewhat of a hack, but it _does_ work. Quite nicely actually, on
> 4000/040/25. It would be much nicer, and smoother with a CyberVision card.
I agree that if ID don't want to port it themselves, then it makes
sense to approve a third party port, particularly if it would result
in more sales of the PC version.
Neil
--
Neil Bothwick, Warrington, England - CU Amiga CD compiler
Connected via Wirenet - The UK's first Amiga-only internet access provider
mailto:in...@wirenet.co.uk http://www.wirenet.co.uk
--
New Hayes AT command: AT ET = Phone Home.
Eric GIGUERE
In article <5i1h8j$1...@flood.xnet.com>, jcom...@typhoon.xnet.com
says...
>
>Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
>:
>: Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as
to
>: whether this is a legal port of Quake.
>
I found that at : (see the legal information at the end with the
statement from (?) Id Software)
http://www.renanddaz.demon.co.uk/ftp/quake/
System Requirements
* Amiga Computer with OS 3.0 +
* 68020/30/40/60 processor with FPU.
* 8-10 Megs of free memory.
* ShareWare or Registered Quake
* CyberGraphX card recommended.
---------------------------------------------
QUAKE NEEDS THE FOLLOWING
You need Quake Shareware from www.idsoftware.com or
Registered
Copy of Quake
* Step. 1 - Unarchive Quake from support site on a PC
* Step. 2 - Install Quake on the PC hard-disk
* Step. 3 - With Nullmodem, CrossDos, Parallel Copy or
whatever copy
Quake as is to the Amiga.
* Step. 4 - Smash the AmigaQuake executable in the Quake
directory
* Step. 5 - before running, set a stack of 300000
* Step. 6 - Run AmigaQuake
DOWNLOAD AMIGA EXECUTABLE HERE:
[ Quake.lha - 216KB]
----------------------------------------------------------
LEGAL INFORMATION
This executable is actually LEGAL, ID Software was informed,
they will not support this but they won't forbid this version!
Statement from ID Software:
"yes, we know of Quake for the Amiga but we don't think it's
worth to support the platform although we won't forbid it.
- ID Sotware"
Support Amiga Quake and buy the PC ORIGINAL. v0.44 coming
soon!
Š 1997 Id Software, Inc. All Rights Reserved
-----------------------------------------------------------
Rune Espeseth
Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
: Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
: whether this is a legal port of Quake.
It can't be legal. The code was stolen from crack.dot.com by someone, and
spread on the internet (AFAIK). Whichever ports arose from this cannot be
legal, since iD have not had a say in them.
--
Regards,
Rune Espeseth, Cut'n Paste Productions
Computer Information Science Student, Molde College, Norway.
CyberStorm060,CyberVision64/4mb,46Mb RAM,4.4xCDROM,ZipDrive,1Gb Hd
Jean-francois FABRE
Rune Espeseth wrote:
>
> It can't be legal. The code was stolen from crack.dot.com by someone, and
> spread on the internet (AFAIK). Whichever ports arose from this cannot be
> legal, since iD have not had a say in them.
>
>
Unfortunately, as nobody cares about the amiga, using those stolen
sources is the only way to get Quake on the amiga.
And as far as the amiga coder does not spread the source code, I cannot
figure out on how it could be harmful for ID software
Jeff
tim
>w4gs said,
>> The version of AmiQuake that was posted to Aminet is _NOT_ some sort of
>> release from iD software. They know about it, but don't condemn it either.
>> In a press release they stated..:
>> "... we know that there exists a port of Quake to the Amiga. We don't
>> condone, nor do we condemn this version. We don't feel, at this time, that
>> it is a platform worth supporting..."
>But was this actually from ID? CU amiga have been trying to get an
>answer from them and failed.
It's so hard to tell.. I really would like to be able to pass an official word
on to the very nervous author.
>> AmiQuake requires the shareware/registered version of Quake (The real PC
>> version on CD) to work. And, it is for this reason that iD hasn't
>> tried to put a lid on it. They figure that they will have more sales, from
>> all the Amiga users trying to get it going. Actually, to get it working is
>> somewhat of a hack, but it _does_ work. Quite nicely actually, on
>> 4000/040/25. It would be much nicer, and smoother with a CyberVision card.
Better on a PicassoIV ;) On the other hand imagine QuakeGL PPC with
PicassoIV+3dfx (in the PCI slot) combo.. OUCH :)) Someone say "Virge" ?
>I agree that if ID don't want to port it themselves, then it makes
>sense to approve a third party port, particularly if it would result
>in more sales of the PC version.
Agreed.
Tim
jgi...@bfs.unibol.com
In article <5i1kbq$r...@news.Hawaii.Edu>,
super...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Wait a mintute, wait minute... I've heard it said SEVERAL times that this
> 'port' is NOT a port of the actual game! You still have to get the game!
> AFAIK, this is not a 'Myst' situation. Why would you still have to get the
> original game then?
The Amiga "port" of Quake is just a port of the game engine. You still
need the original Quake data files to use the game on your Amiga.
/John.
-
John Girvin
UNIBOL400 Development
jgi...@bfs.unibol.com gi...@girvnet.demon.co.uk
http://www.unibol.com http://www.girvnet.demon.co.uk
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Robin Smith
On Thu, 3 Apr 1997, Stefan Boberg wrote:
> Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >> You may now download Amiga Quake from
>
> >> http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
>
> >Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
> >whether this is a legal port of Quake.
>
> No, it's not.
>
You're right it's not! Dawn I was going to purchase a 50MHz FPU just to
try it out! Well I'm told is too slow on most Amiga systems anyway.
I assume at some point the code is bound to be optimized. Maybe I'll have
to live with the integer world for a while longer. Or at least until the
Power Cards become available. Maybe someone should compile it for the
Power 603/604's!
Laters,
Rob. oo
\~^~/ - Quasi Software International - \oOo/
o"o Email: r...@coventry.ac.uk o"o
-oO(_)Oo- http://quasi.home.ml.org -oO(_)Oo-
jgi...@bfs.unibol.com
In article <5i1h8j$1...@flood.xnet.com>,
jcom...@typhoon.xnet.com (Jason Compton) wrote:
> Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
> : Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
> : whether this is a legal port of Quake.
id have said they dont care about AQuake.
/John.
--
Darren Evans
Darren Evans wrote:
>
> You may now download Amiga Quake from
>
>
> http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
>
> =--=--=QUAKE=--=--=QUAKE=--=--=QUAKE=--=--=QUAKE
>
> // Supporting All
> \X/ Amiga o/s Systems
> 32-BiT CD-ROM USERGROUP
>
> webm...@digitalarts.demon.co.uk
> http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
WoW!! What a response....
Thanks for all your comments, but ID Software are not actually
that fussed about the SOURCE code being converted. It does mean
that now not only have they got shareware registrations and
commercial release purchases coming from PC owners, but this
(PATCH) will allow HIGHER end Amiga owners to enjoy the pleasures
of QUAKE also.
As some of you may have spotted the Short cut to our DOWNLOAD Site
is:
http://www.renanddaz.demon.co.uk/ftp/quake
... so hey don't delay download it today...
REMEMBER NOTHING VENTURED NOTHING GAINED..
***
True it does require a TOP END AMIGA, but this it 1997, not 1987.
If you want to play the same games as a PEECEE, then a powerful
Amiga is needed.
Thanks again everyone.
Darren Evans
Amiga Project Manager
Digital Arts Software
// Supporting All
\X/ Amiga o/s Systems
Justin Case
Once and for all. The definitive "straight dope" on that AmiQuake "port"
everyone's buzzing about. The source code was obtained from someone named
^MAX^, he belongs to a rather nefarious group of individuals who
re-distribute their own versions of otherwise commercially available
software (read between the blurry lines here, folks). With the code he
acquired, he re-wrote it in order to work on the Amiga, a daunting task,
no doubt. In fact, he's implemented some features not in the original, and
that are exclusive to that particular port. ^MAX^ is continuing to develop
this version, and is actually planning to completely re-write it in
assembler.
Here's a statement from iD software on this subject:
..."we are aware of a port that was recently written for the Amiga. We
don't condone, nor do we condemn this version. It is not our intention,
at this time, to begin supporting the Amiga, nor in the foreseable
future..."
They later went on to say that Amiga users would be forced to purchase
Quake, and install it on their systems. I guess they figure a small boost
in sales from people trying to play Quake on their Amiga's.
Here's how it works. You _need_ either the original registered PC
version, on CD, or the freely available shareware version. You _need_ to
install either version on a PC partition in your Amiga system. You're
simply replacing the executable with the "port" of AmiQuake. And then you
run it from there. It works quite nicely on my A4000/040/25 18megs fast.
It IS a RAM hog, I think in _needs_ 10 megs. ^MAX^ has big plans (as he
put it), to continue developing this version. He's currently re-writting
it in assembler, which would drastically increase performance. Other
future plans include full CyberGFX support, AGA/ECS support, and lots of
other improvements over the current release.
I hope this helps eliminate some of the recent posts to the NG's. Post
this "FAQ" anywhere you want. Just leave it as you found it...
For more info, contact me directly..:
Justin Case
w4...@unb.ca
--
Be advised that this individual is spamming hordes of people from your
domain. This sort of action often results in retaliation, of one form or
another from people who recieve unsolicited message of this nature. In
other words, if I get more shit like this from your users, I'll destroy
David Carmichael
whether or
not someone has done Quake for the Amiga, Linux, VMS or whatever.
Epsecially
true if coders don't break the crippled part of the code.
What will irritate them intensely is that someone hs manage to get hold
of their
source code and hence intellectual property.
tim
>>
>>Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
>>:
>>: Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as
>to
>>: whether this is a legal port of Quake.
>>
>>I didn't think that was ever in question. It's decidedly not.
>I found that at : (see the legal information at the end with the
>http://www.renanddaz.demon.co.uk/ftp/quake/
> Copy of Quake
> DOWNLOAD AMIGA EXECUTABLE HERE:
> [ Quake.lha - 216KB]
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> LEGAL INFORMATION
> Statement from ID Software:
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
TOTAL FAKE!!!
The person who posted this knows nothing about the development of the engine
other than that on my web page (back this weekend kids!).
Obvious grammar errors in the "statement" by ID e.g. "it's worth to support" is
not good English ;) further show this. The copyright sig at the end is beyond a
joke.
The author DID NOT post this to the aminet - I did not grant permission for my
Web page to be included in the archive. Go figure.
Tim
tim
>Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
>: Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
>: whether this is a legal port of Quake.
>It can't be legal. The code was stolen from crack.dot.com by someone, and
>spread on the internet (AFAIK). Whichever ports arose from this cannot be
>legal, since iD have not had a say in them.
Define theft from a public server - no hacking took place. ID have no case
since they didn't take precautions to protect their own sourcecode!
Real world analogy: I put my sourcecode on a disk in a public library and am
stunned when someone gets hold of it ;)
Tim
Philip Kaulfuss
Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
: Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
: whether this is a legal port of Quake.
Not really. But apparently iD know and accept it. Do I detect a hint of
putting the shareware version of Quake along with the Amiga executable on next
month's CUCD? ;)
--
,-----------------------------------------------------------.
:-: Philip Kaulfuss :---------------------------------------:
:-: ph...@boehme.demon.co.uk :-------------------------------:
:-: PhilK in UnderNet #AmigaCafe :--------------------------:
:-: http://www.boehme.demon.co.uk :-------------------------:
:-: Gfx artist for the freeware gorefest 'Urban Massacre' :-:
`-----------------------------------------------------------'
Marc Forrester
So many people have said. I'd like to see a link to the
evidence on the ID software web site, if it's all the same..
--
Marc Forrester, via his mum's ISP.
Stefan Boberg
tim <dan...@angeldos.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Define theft from a public server - no hacking took place. ID have no case
>since they didn't take precautions to protect their own sourcecode!
>Real world analogy: I put my sourcecode on a disk in a public library and am
>stunned when someone gets hold of it ;)
So what you're saying is: if I leave my car unlocked, it's alright
to steal it, since I did not take any precautions to protect it? If
you leave your house unlocked, it's alright for me to walk in there
and take whatever I like? Hmm? Nice one.
--
=====================================================================
Stefan Boberg Vrooooom With a View... bob...@team17.com
tim
>Once and for all. The definitive "straight dope" on that AmiQuake "port"
>everyone's buzzing about. The source code was obtained from someone named
This should be interesting..
>^MAX^, he belongs to a rather nefarious group of individuals who
>re-distribute their own versions of otherwise commercially available
>software (read between the blurry lines here, folks). With the code he
>acquired, he re-wrote it in order to work on the Amiga, a daunting task,
>no doubt. In fact, he's implemented some features not in the original, and
>that are exclusive to that particular port. ^MAX^ is continuing to develop
>this version, and is actually planning to completely re-write it in
>assembler.
The code was on a public FTP site BTW.
>Here's a statement from iD software on this subject:
>..."we are aware of a port that was recently written for the Amiga. We
>don't condone, nor do we condemn this version. It is not our intention,
>at this time, to begin supporting the Amiga, nor in the foreseable
>future..."
>They later went on to say that Amiga users would be forced to purchase
>Quake, and install it on their systems. I guess they figure a small boost
>in sales from people trying to play Quake on their Amiga's.
>Here's how it works. You _need_ either the original registered PC
>version, on CD, or the freely available shareware version. You _need_ to
>install either version on a PC partition in your Amiga system. You're
>simply replacing the executable with the "port" of AmiQuake. And then you
>run it from there. It works quite nicely on my A4000/040/25 18megs fast.
>It IS a RAM hog, I think in _needs_ 10 megs. ^MAX^ has big plans (as he
>put it), to continue developing this version. He's currently re-writting
>it in assembler, which would drastically increase performance. Other
>future plans include full CyberGFX support, AGA/ECS support, and lots of
>other improvements over the current release.
Yes it does require a lot of RAM - nothing bizarre since the .PAK file is rather
large. Why would you need a "PC Partition" - have you even run Quake? :) All
you need do is dl the shareware of the game and extract the archive with LHA on
the Amiga. The archive was created with Yoshi's sfx-lha. Sure, theres also a
ZIP version knocking around but theres UNZIP on the Amiga too.
I'd be interested where you got this info from, as CyberGfx support is
already there, AGA support is already there - in V0.31 (the very old public
release). Y'see I know the guy ;) AGA was added in V0.3 - previous versions
were gfx card only... Hmm.
>I hope this helps eliminate some of the recent posts to the NG's. Post
>this "FAQ" anywhere you want. Just leave it as you found it...
I wouldn't bother since it's far from accurate.
Tim
Even Sandvik Underlid
>: >Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
>: >whether this is a legal port of Quake.
>Wait a mintute, wait minute... I've heard it said SEVERAL times that this
>'port' is NOT a port of the actual game! You still have to get the game!
>AFAIK, this is not a 'Myst' situation. Why would you still have to get the
>original game then?
>don't see what the problem would be even then. You'd still have to get the
>game, period. It's a win-win situation for both parties. If anything, ID
>would end up making even more money from Amiga users!
A *patch* is legal. Actually some people are earning money
on patches that CRACK copyprotection in games on the PC,
it's legal I guess! However, THIS patch is not legal, it's
based on stolen code. Then again, if ID thinks it's ok, why not?
-- rUSTYBRAIn --
Mathew Hendry
In comp.sys.amiga.graphics Stefan Boberg <bob...@team17.com> wrote:
: tim <dan...@angeldos.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: >Define theft from a public server - no hacking took place. ID have no case
: >since they didn't take precautions to protect their own sourcecode!
: >Real world analogy: I put my sourcecode on a disk in a public library and am
: >stunned when someone gets hold of it ;)
: So what you're saying is: if I leave my car unlocked, it's alright
: to steal it, since I did not take any precautions to protect it?
False analogy. Nothing has been _removed_ from ID's server; merely copied.
: If
: you leave your house unlocked, it's alright for me to walk in there
: and take whatever I like?
No. You are free to observe and remember whatever you like, so long as you
do not remove or damage anything.
-- Mat.
Jason Compton
Stefan Boberg (bob...@team17.com) wrote:
: tim <dan...@angeldos.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: So what you're saying is: if I leave my car unlocked, it's alright
: you leave your house unlocked, it's alright for me to walk in there
While I understand where you're coming from, the fact that these things
(taking unprotected sourcecode and taking an unlocked car with the keys in
the ignition) are fundamentally two different things is what is causing
problems for legal systems around the world.
When your car is stolen, it's no longer accessible by you. Your car can
only be possessed by one person at a time, and the use of it by one person
precludes its use by another.
But when the Quake source code was appropriated/stolen (choose your verb
based on your ideology), it was not removed from ID's possession.
Reconciling the notion of "stolen" with the notion of "still possessed by
the owner" is what makes intellectual property so sticky.
Alan Pollock
Darren Evans (Dar...@digitalarts.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: WoW!! What a response....
: http://www.renanddaz.demon.co.uk/ftp/quake
: ***
: Thanks again everyone.
: webm...@digitalarts.demon.co.uk
: http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
Yes, that first message was misleading, as it stated that all ados's were
supported. Turns out Quake needs 3.1 - Nex
Neil Bothwick
tim said,
>>It can't be legal. The code was stolen from crack.dot.com by someone, and
>>spread on the internet (AFAIK). Whichever ports arose from this cannot be
>>legal, since iD have not had a say in them.
> Define theft from a public server - no hacking took place. ID have no case
> since they didn't take precautions to protect their own sourcecode!
There are thousands of archives on Aminet stating that the programs
may be freely distributed, but the source may not be modified without
the author's consent.
> Real world analogy: I put my sourcecode on a disk in a public library and
> am stunned when someone gets hold of it ;)
Another real world analogy: I park my car in a public place without
locking it. Maybe it's stupid, and maybe I shouldn't be stunned when
someone drives off in it, but that doesn't make it any less of a
theft.
Neil
--
Neil Bothwick, Warrington, England - CU Amiga CD compiler
Connected via Wirenet - The UK's first Amiga-only internet access provider
mailto:in...@wirenet.co.uk http://www.wirenet.co.uk
--
"Take my Worf--please." -Data
Neil Bothwick
Philip Kaulfuss said,
> Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
>: Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
>: whether this is a legal port of Quake.
> Not really. But apparently iD know and accept it. Do I detect a hint of
> putting the shareware version of Quake along with the Amiga executable on
> next month's CUCD? ;)
Not any more :(
Neil
--
Neil Bothwick, Warrington, England - CU Amiga CD compiler
Connected via Wirenet - The UK's first Amiga-only internet access provider
mailto:in...@wirenet.co.uk http://www.wirenet.co.uk
--
Pound for pound, the amoeba is the most vicious animal on the earth.
Neil Bothwick
Mathew Hendry said,
> In comp.sys.amiga.graphics Stefan Boberg <bob...@team17.com> wrote:
>: tim <dan...@angeldos.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>: >Real world analogy: I put my sourcecode on a disk in a public library and
>: >am stunned when someone gets hold of it ;)
>: So what you're saying is: if I leave my car unlocked, it's alright
>: to steal it, since I did not take any precautions to protect it?
> False analogy. Nothing has been _removed_ from ID's server; merely copied.
And copying is theft, which is why it's called copyright.
~~~~
>: If
>: you leave your house unlocked, it's alright for me to walk in there
>: and take whatever I like?
> No. You are free to observe and remember whatever you like, so long as you
> do not remove or damage anything.
So I could walk into your house and take copies of your personal
papers, to use for my own purposes, as long as I didn't remove the
originals?
Neil
--
Neil Bothwick, Warrington, England - CU Amiga CD compiler
Connected via Wirenet - The UK's first Amiga-only internet access provider
mailto:in...@wirenet.co.uk http://www.wirenet.co.uk
--
"Bohtre," said Pooh, as his dyslexia worsened
Espen Berntsen
tim (dan...@angeldos.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: >: Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
: >: whether this is a legal port of Quake.
: >It can't be legal. The code was stolen from crack.dot.com by someone, and
: >spread on the internet (AFAIK). Whichever ports arose from this cannot be
: >legal, since iD have not had a say in them.
: Define theft from a public server - no hacking took place. ID have no case
: since they didn't take precautions to protect their own sourcecode!
There was hacking, and it was not ID's server.
: Real world analogy: I put my sourcecode on a disk in a public library and am
: stunned when someone gets hold of it ;)
Real world anology: Someone steals my source code and spread it, and
someone can't understand we I am pissed.
Espen
Espen Berntsen
Mathew Hendry (sca...@dial.pipex.com) wrote:
: : >Real world analogy: I put my sourcecode on a disk in a public library and am
: : >stunned when someone gets hold of it ;)
: : So what you're saying is: if I leave my car unlocked, it's alright
: : to steal it, since I did not take any precautions to protect it?
: False analogy. Nothing has been _removed_ from ID's server; merely copied.
ARGH!! How many time sdoes it have to be said : IT WAS NOT STOLEN FROM
iD's SERVER. BUT FROM CRACK DOT COM ALONG WITH THE SOURCES TO GOLGATHA!!
Shees. Besides, if you copy it or remove it, it is still theft. Pirates
are thieves people with pirated software are theives people who do not
pay the shareware fee are theives. Talk all you want about reasons to
justify the theft, it is still just plain theft commited by criminals.
: No. You are free to observe and remember whatever you like, so long as you
: do not remove or damage anything.
Yeah, right. Tell that to the owner of the house. If I am not hope, I do
not want peeps snooping around my house even if the door is unlocked.
Espen
James Gardiner
On the 04-Apr-97 15:18:26 tim did say to All
>>Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> You may now download Amiga Quake from
>>>> http://www.digitalarts.demon.co.uk
>>>Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
>>>whether this is a legal port of Quake.
>> No, it's not.
>............. YET :)
>Tim
Is this why its still at .31
Will the next release be commercial on a CD-Rom ?
I hope so
//// Amiga 3000/040
James Gardiner //// Picasso II+ Picasso96
//// // Miami Thor 2.4
_ _ //// \x/
email: \\\\ //// A1200
\\\X/// Soon to be PPC
blac...@charon.net.au \XXX/
Michael Pedersen
Stefan Boberg wrote:
> tim <dan...@angeldos.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Define theft from a public server - no hacking took place. ID have no case
> >since they didn't take precautions to protect their own sourcecode!
>
> >Real world analogy: I put my sourcecode on a disk in a public library and am
> >stunned when someone gets hold of it ;)
>
> So what you're saying is: if I leave my car unlocked, it's alright
> to steal it, since I did not take any precautions to protect it? If
> you leave your house unlocked, it's alright for me to walk in there
> and take whatever I like? Hmm? Nice one.
I just hate it when people begin comparing computers/software/internet
with
houses and cars... pfffth... Nice one, Mr. Boberg.
BTW, I can't wait for a DECENT version of Quake for the Amiga... I've
seen
it on an A1200 '060... It was SLOW! I guess I need to plug a GFX card
into
my A4000 '040 before I even TRY to run it! =)
But, I want to encourage the person behind it, and hopes he can make it
faster and better! :)
Oh, and ahhh, does it support network? I didn't quite make out what it
said
at startup... (something with TCP/IP and some missing file, I think...)
Bye!
--
Michael Pedersen, aka
Sabotage, leader of [TGM]
Sab's HQ, http://home5.inet.tele.dk/sabotage/
James Vigliotti
Jeeze louise!!!
It was copied, err it was stolen, errr it is legal, errr no it's not, errr
ID do not
condemn it, err my parrot was in a public parking place........
Has everyone lost their minds?
You all forget ONE very important item.
Where is the CONFIRMATION that the port came from
stolen/copied/(insert word) ID code DIRECTLY?
Please don't give me that, "it came from hackerzzzzz"
So damn funny that if a group creates addons (using a VERY
close engine) Red Alert comes to mind....WITHOUT any
agreement with the parent company or developer info
(again the first Red Alert+ package comes to mind) everyone
ASSUMES it's all legal and no funny buisness went on.
Hmmm if everyone is that guilable to think that some reverse
engineering or SOURCE examination hasn't gone on in
literally thousands of "ports" floating around the world that people
ASSUME are legal it amazes me that without 1 concrete proof
that the "port" came from original "stolen" code that everyone
again cries and ASSUMES this port MUST be from stolen
code. "Hey look the tagline on it is using upper and lower case
letters, must be some hac3rzzz or somtin, gotta be illegal all the
way!"
Wake up call people, don't assume so much. Reverse engineering,
source code prying ARE the name of the game whether anyone
comes out and says it or not, from your lowly COD3RZZ to your
suit wearing board member talking to the "think tank" about what
"features" can be nabbed out of a competitors product and
re-released with "JUST" enough changes to get by a copyright
courts eyes.
I must note that in the Red Alert case, copyright infringement was
brought up but LO AND BEHOLD "JUST" enough changes were made
to sqeak by a copyright court. One extremely important thing to
remember in the Amiga Quake port issue is YOU CANNOT
copyright a mathematical equation, check with your local
registrar. Since the game ENGINE is more algorithm and not
ORIGINAL ideas as the graphics and display subsystem, a
copyright case based soley on the engine and it's subsequent
mutation cannot hold.
I'm just amazed at the level of naivety out there.
My 2c..soapbox mode off.
James Vigliotti
--
To reply to me remove "nospam" from the
reply address.
James Gardiner <blac...@charon.net.au> wrote in article
<870.7034T...@charon.net.au>...
: On the 04-Apr-97 15:18:26 tim did say to All
:
:
Anders Johansson
>You're right it's not! Dawn I was going to purchase a 50MHz FPU just to
>try it out! Well I'm told is too slow on most Amiga systems anyway.
Well, the FPU may not do so much better performance, on my 4000/040@40 with
CyverVision 64 it's not even playable..
___ _
_/\// [Anders Johansson] [MultiVision Broadcast Production]
\_/X [A4k040]-[CV64]-[ScanDbl]-[A2065]-[A2091]-[A4008]-[IBM14XA]
_//_\ [Toshiba3.5x]-[IBM 350M]-[Conner 850M]-[IBM 120M]
\_X/ [stu...@hem.passagen.se] [http://hem.passagen.se/studiox]
Anders Johansson
>Why don't you state which version it is? And I don't
>think the "iD-statement" is by iD at all...in that
>case it should be on their site, don't you think?
>It isn't.
Why don't you ask then yourself ? Then you know the
facts and can act in that way.
tim
>tim <dan...@angeldos.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>Define theft from a public server - no hacking took place. ID have no case
>>since they didn't take precautions to protect their own sourcecode!
>>Real world analogy: I put my sourcecode on a disk in a public library and
>>am stunned when someone gets hold of it ;)
> So what you're saying is: if I leave my car unlocked, it's alright
>to steal it, since I did not take any precautions to protect it? If
>you leave your house unlocked, it's alright for me to walk in there
>and take whatever I like? Hmm? Nice one.
IF you leave you car unlocked and it's stolen then enjoy claiming on your
insurance - they'd quite happily say "it's your fault". Why do you think
insurance companies reward you for self arming immobilsers? :)
Crap analogies anyway - ID didn't *loose* the code - it has been duplicated and
therefore they still own it. If someone steals your car/possessions it's a bit
different from someone coming round your house and duplicating them. An
interesting notion since you'd need a star trek replicator for it too :) hehe.
Anyway, not wanting to stray too much from the issue - I'd really like to see ID
take anyone to court over this. First, you have to proove theft. Second, you
have to proove ownership of the sourcecode. Third, you need hard evidence that
the author has this sourcecode. I'm sorry, but it's not enough to point a
finger and say "thats our game" when you need to buy ID's PC version to play it
in any case. No money has been made thusfar, so none has been lost by ID.
Aside from anything else it would cost ID more in legal fees than any potential
loss to them in what they percieve (and you from your previous posts) a dead
market.
The above is based on British law only.
Tim
BTW why are you still visiting our newsgroups if you've left us all for dead
Stefan? :)
Geir Are Skjeret
Stefan Boberg wrote:
>tim <dan...@angeldos.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>Real world analogy: I put my sourcecode on a disk in a public library and am
>>stunned when someone gets hold of it ;)
> So what you're saying is: if I leave my car unlocked, it's alright
>to steal it, since I did not take any precautions to protect it? If
>you leave your house unlocked, it's alright for me to walk in there
>and take whatever I like? Hmm? Nice one.
This analogy would be appropriate IF ID software no longer have the source
code, in the same way that you would no longer have your car if it was
stolen. This is not the case...
I seem to recall having had this discussion before... ;-)
---
Geir Are Skjeret
"As the catterpiller layeth its eggs on the fairest leaves, so also
the priest layeth his curse on the fairest joys" - William Blake
Philip Kaulfuss
Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
: > Not really. But apparently iD know and accept it. Do I detect a hint of
: > putting the shareware version of Quake along with the Amiga executable on
: > next month's CUCD? ;)
: Not any more :(
Aww. =(
Zig Zag
On 05 Apr 1997 15:11:17 Anders Johansson wrote about "Re: DOWNLOAD AMIGA QUAKE!!! (not!":
>
> >You're right it's not! Dawn I was going to purchase a 50MHz FPU just to
> >try it out! Well I'm told is too slow on most Amiga systems anyway.
>
> Well, the FPU may not do so much better performance, on my 4000/040@40 with
> CyverVision 64 it's not even playable..
Huh...I can play it fine on a fairly small screen on my A3000T/WarpEngine40/040mhz
PicassoII??? It plays well enough to enjoy the game?
Zig Zag
On 06 Apr 1997 00:19:08 Neil Bothwick wrote about "Re: DOWNLOAD AMIGA QUAKE!!":
>
> Philip Kaulfuss said,
>
> > Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
>
> >: > Not really. But apparently iD know and accept it. Do I detect a hint of
> >: > putting the shareware version of Quake along with the Amiga executable on
> >: > next month's CUCD? ;)
>
> >: Not any more :(
>
> > Aww. =(
>
> It's a shame, because many Amiga owners don't have the facility to
> install the PC version. According to the docs, you need a PC to do it.
> You could use a bridgeboard or the registered versions of PC-Task or
> PCx. But the hardfiles in the unregged versions are either read-only
> or too small.
>
> Anyone wanna buy a bridgeboard? ;-)
I really don't know what all this about having to use a PC is. I did not use a
PC to setup AmigaQuake. All I did was download the shareware version via ftp,
and download the AmigaQuake executable. Then I unzipped the PC shareware files
into ram then unlha'd the resource file into a drawer called Quake. Then I
unarc's the AmigaQuake.exe and copied it into the same drawer..and boom there is
was AmigaQuake! I don't understand this having to use a PC?
>
>
> Neil
> --
> Neil Bothwick, Warrington, England - CU Amiga CD compiler
> Connected via Wirenet - The UK's first Amiga-only internet access provider
> mailto:in...@wirenet.co.uk http://www.wirenet.co.uk
> --
> Never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself.
>
Stefan Boberg
sca...@dial.pipex.com (Mathew Hendry) wrote:
>In comp.sys.amiga.graphics Stefan Boberg <bob...@team17.com> wrote:
>: >Real world analogy: I put my sourcecode on a disk in a public library and am
>: >stunned when someone gets hold of it ;)
>: So what you're saying is: if I leave my car unlocked, it's alright
>: to steal it, since I did not take any precautions to protect it?
>False analogy. Nothing has been _removed_ from ID's server; merely copied.
No, nothing was been _removed_ from crack.com, but something was
*TAKEN*. Someone is now in possession of something they have not paid
for. Something in which the authors invested a considerable amount of
time, know-how and money.
I don't know why I even bother writing this, but it makes me angry
to see that the general attitude among people seems to be that if you
can take something without anyone noticing, it's alright. As if it is
being found out that makes people feel bad about stealing, and not the
theft in itself. But I guess that's just the way it is, and has always
been.
[Cue ObCrackerRemark]
>: you leave your house unlocked, it's alright for me to walk in there
>: and take whatever I like?
>No. You are free to observe and remember whatever you like, so long as you
>do not remove or damage anything.
Huh? Which country/planet are you from?
Trespassing?
The Hidden
>
>
>Yes, that first message was misleading, as it stated that all ados's were
>supported. Turns out Quake needs 3.1 - Nex
>
>
Kind Regards CRAIG HOWARD....
A4000-040-40-CV64-4mb 32MB Flicker-Fixer 17" 3.2gig of Scsi--
The Hidden ---The games boys that are soon to be the DANCE LADS
Emulating a Mac,PC(Spit),Atari800(When it Works),QL,Gameboy,Trs80,
Apple][,ORIC,Vic20,Amstrad,C64 SPECCY.DRAG 32 V2600 BBC-B
-NEW- MASTERSYSTEM **ARCADE** . SOON- Model3,,Genesis
Playing amiga Quake and waiting for it to be truly miggied
(C_Ho...@london.rage.co.uk)Weekdays (Cr...@Hidden2.demon.co.uk) Weekends
Even Sandvik Underlid
>> AmiQuake requires the shareware/registered version of Quake (The real PC
>> version on CD) to work. And, it is for this reason that iD hasn't
>> tried to put a lid on it. They figure that they will have more sales, from
>> all the Amiga users trying to get it going. Actually, to get it working is
>> somewhat of a hack, but it _does_ work. Quite nicely actually, on
>> 4000/040/25. It would be much nicer, and smoother with a CyberVision card.
>I agree that if ID don't want to port it themselves, then it makes
>sense to approve a third party port, particularly if it would result
>in more sales of the PC version.
I just got an idea! How about YOU, as the compiler of the CUCDs,
talking to ID software? Maybe you could make a READY-TO-RUN
version of AmigaQuake from the CD, by including the
files of the sharewarequake?
Give them a free addy in the mag or something, and they'll
probably agree.
-- rUSTYBRAIn --
Robert Robson
In a message dated Sat 5 Apr 97 07:00, Bob...@team17.com (stefan Boberg)
wrote:
BB> tim <dan...@angeldos.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Define theft from a public server - no hacking took place. ID have no
case
>since they didn't take precautions to protect their own sourcecode!
>Real world analogy: I put my sourcecode on a disk in a public library and
am
>stunned when someone gets hold of it ;)
BB> So what you're saying is: if I leave my car unlocked, it's alright
BB> to steal it, since I did not take any precautions to protect it? If
BB> you leave your house unlocked, it's alright for me to walk in there
BB> and take whatever I like? Hmm? Nice one.
BB> --
BB> =====================================================================
BB> Stefan Boberg Vrooooom With a View... bob...@team17.com
Well here in Canada if you leave the keys in your car it's not considered
stolen (by your insurance company) as you must take reasonable precautions
to protect your property. Does Team 17 leave its intellectual property
lying arround the website waiting to be taken or do THEY give it a higher
access requirement. In addition how is taking a file that you have been
given easy access to stealing ? How can I tell the difference between
what files I can take and files I shouldn't ?
Robert Robson Vancouver Canada
-- Via DLG Pro v1.15
Robert Robson
In a message dated Sat 5 Apr 97 07:00, Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk>
wrote:
NB> It seems that no one at ID Software is prepared to comment either
NB> way.
NB> Neil
Well they should respond because most people see silence as consent !!
Robert Robson
In a message dated Sat 5 Apr 97 07:02, Bob...@team17.com (stefan Boberg)
wrote:
BB> So what you're saying is: if I leave my car unlocked, it's alright
BB> to steal it, since I did not take any precautions to protect it? If
BB> you leave your house unlocked, it's alright for me to walk in there
BB> and take whatever I like? Hmm? Nice one.
BB> --
BB> =====================================================================
BB> Stefan Boberg Vrooooom With a View... bob...@team17.com
If someone walks into an UNlocked house isn't that trespassing NOT
break and enter. Isn't that how squaters operate ??
Neil Bothwick
Anders Johansson said,
>>Why don't you state which version it is? And I don't
>>think the "iD-statement" is by iD at all...in that
>>case it should be on their site, don't you think?
>>It isn't.
> Why don't you ask then yourself ? Then you know the
> facts and can act in that way.
Asking is easy, it's getting an answer that's the problem.
Neil
--
Neil Bothwick, Warrington, England - CU Amiga CD compiler
Connected via Wirenet - The UK's first Amiga-only internet access provider
mailto:in...@wirenet.co.uk http://www.wirenet.co.uk
--
Life is like an analogy.
Neil Bothwick
Philip Kaulfuss said,
> Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
>: > Not really. But apparently iD know and accept it. Do I detect a hint of
>: > putting the shareware version of Quake along with the Amiga executable on
>: > next month's CUCD? ;)
>: Not any more :(
> Aww. =(
It's a shame, because many Amiga owners don't have the facility to
install the PC version. According to the docs, you need a PC to do it.
You could use a bridgeboard or the registered versions of PC-Task or
PCx. But the hardfiles in the unregged versions are either read-only
or too small.
Anyone wanna buy a bridgeboard? ;-)
Neil
--
Neil Bothwick, Warrington, England - CU Amiga CD compiler
Connected via Wirenet - The UK's first Amiga-only internet access provider
mailto:in...@wirenet.co.uk http://www.wirenet.co.uk
--
Steve Duff
On 4 April 1997, tim <dan...@angeldos.demon.co.uk> wrote;
> Why would you need a "PC Partition" - have you even run Quake? :) All
> you need do is dl the shareware of the game and extract the archive with LHA on
> the Amiga. The archive was created with Yoshi's sfx-lha. Sure, theres also a
> ZIP version knocking around but theres UNZIP on the Amiga too.
Ah, this is very interesting. This begs the question, if you already
have the Quake CD, can you simply load it directly into your Amiga from
CD-ROM? This is how I got Final Doom onto the Mac, by loading the IWAD
files directly from CD and using a utility to convert them from IWAD to
PWAD. Of course, I already had the MacDoom engine! Still, however
silly, I felt the question was worth asking. :>
Best;
Steve
A4060T & PowerWave 604/132
Mathew Hendry
In comp.sys.amiga.graphics Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
: Mathew Hendry said,
: > In comp.sys.amiga.graphics Stefan Boberg <bob...@team17.com> wrote:
: >: So what you're saying is: if I leave my car unlocked, it's alright
: >: to steal it, since I did not take any precautions to protect it?
: > False analogy. Nothing has been _removed_ from ID's server; merely copied.
: And copying is theft
So if I copy your car, I've stolen it? Don't you see that this analogy goes
nowhere?
Taking my car without my permission is wrong, because I paid for it and it's
mine. Copying my source code without my permission is wrong, because I wrote
it and it's mine. The two senses of "ownership" are entirely different. The
two senses of "theft" are entirely different. The two scenarios are entirely
different.
Why cloud the issue with irrelevant and misleading analogies? Compare like
with like, or compare nothing.
: which is why it's called copyright.
: ~~~~
Now you are reduced to basing your argument upon spelling, of all things. Is
that really the best that you can do?
: >: If
: >: you leave your house unlocked, it's alright for me to walk in there
: >: and take whatever I like?
: > No. You are free to observe and remember whatever you like, so long as you
: > do not remove or damage anything.
: So I could walk into your house and take copies of your personal
: papers, to use for my own purposes, as long as I didn't remove the
: originals?
Yes, subject to your holding copyright on those materials. My personal
preference for your not doing this has no affect on your right to do it.
I can only make things more difficult for you, or trust you to respect my
preferences.
Again, what is the relevance of this to the subject under discussion?
-- Mat.
Neil Bothwick
Mathew Hendry said,
>: which is why it's called copyright.
>: ~~~~
> Now you are reduced to basing your argument upon spelling, of all things. Is
> that really the best that you can do?
It's not about spelling, where do you think the word copyright comes
from? it means the right to copy. If it's mine work, and i have
copyright, then I have the right to copy it, you don't.
> Again, what is the relevance of this to the subject under discussion?
The thread came about from a simple question, which no one has
answered, so it turned into a general discussion of copyright.
Neil
--
Neil Bothwick, Warrington, England - CU Amiga CD compiler
Connected via Wirenet - The UK's first Amiga-only internet access provider
mailto:in...@wirenet.co.uk http://www.wirenet.co.uk
--
New Hayes AT command: AT ET = Phone Home.
Mathew Hendry
: >: which is why it's called copyright.
: >: ~~~~
: > Now you are reduced to basing your argument upon spelling, of all things. Is
: > that really the best that you can do?
: It's not about spelling, where do you think the word copyright comes
: from? it means the right to copy.
That much is obvious. But do you think that discussing the origin of words is
a good base for a logical argument?
: > Again, what is the relevance of this to the subject under discussion?
: The thread came about from a simple question, which no one has
: answered, so it turned into a general discussion of copyright.
No, it turned into a mess of bad analogies.
-- Mat.
Paul Copsey
In <980.703...@wirenet.co.uk>,
Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
> It's a shame, because many Amiga owners don't have the facility to
> install the PC version. According to the docs, you need a PC to do it.
> You could use a bridgeboard or the registered versions of PC-Task or
> PCx. But the hardfiles in the unregged versions are either read-only
> or too small.
Nope, all you need to do is to type lha x resource.1 (after having
joined it if you didn't download the single zipfiles version)
Assuming you have the HD space, any Amiga owner can install it.
Paul
Paul Copsey
In <5i3qdt$2...@neptune.theplanet.co.uk>,
Stefan Boberg <bob...@team17.com> wrote:
> tim <dan...@angeldos.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Define theft from a public server - no hacking took place. ID have no case
> >since they didn't take precautions to protect their own sourcecode!
>
> >Real world analogy: I put my sourcecode on a disk in a public library and am
> >stunned when someone gets hold of it ;)
>
> you leave your house unlocked, it's alright for me to walk in there
Copyright is a different thing though. Since ID have previously
allowed (and absorbed) unauthorised ports they would be on very sticky
legal ground trying to say they didn't want this one continuing.
Paul
Philip Kaulfuss
Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
: Philip Kaulfuss said,
: >: Not any more :(
: > Aww. =(
: It's a shame, because many Amiga owners don't have the facility to
: install the PC version. According to the docs, you need a PC to do it.
: You could use a bridgeboard or the registered versions of PC-Task or
: PCx. But the hardfiles in the unregged versions are either read-only
: or too small.
:
: Anyone wanna buy a bridgeboard? ;-)
You don't need a PC to do it! =) The files can be extracted on an Amiga.
Neil Bothwick
Mathew Hendry said,
> In comp.sys.amiga.graphics Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
>: >: which is why it's called copyright.
>: >: ~~~~
>: > Now you are reduced to basing your argument upon spelling, of all things.
>: > Is that really the best that you can do?
>: It's not about spelling, where do you think the word copyright comes
>: from? it means the right to copy.
> That much is obvious. But do you think that discussing the origin of words
> is a good base for a logical argument?
No, which is why I wasn't. Neither did i attempt to divert by
introduce spelling. We were simply discussing copyright and its
implications.
>: > Again, what is the relevance of this to the subject under discussion?
>: The thread came about from a simple question, which no one has
>: answered, so it turned into a general discussion of copyright.
> No, it turned into a mess of bad analogies.
Exactly, and since neither you nor, apparently, anyone else can answer
the question, I see no point in continuing the thread.
Neil
--
Neil Bothwick, Warrington, England - CU Amiga CD compiler
Connected via Wirenet - The UK's first Amiga-only internet access provider
mailto:in...@wirenet.co.uk http://www.wirenet.co.uk
--
Two is not equal to three, even for large values of two.
Mathew Hendry
: >In comp.sys.amiga.graphics Stefan Boberg <bob...@team17.com> wrote:
: >: >Real world analogy: I put my sourcecode on a disk in a public library and am
: >: >stunned when someone gets hold of it ;)
: >: So what you're saying is: if I leave my car unlocked, it's alright
: >: to steal it, since I did not take any precautions to protect it?
: >False analogy. Nothing has been _removed_ from ID's server; merely copied.
: No, nothing was been _removed_ from crack.com, but something was
: *TAKEN*. Someone is now in possession of something they have not paid
: for. Something in which the authors invested a considerable amount of
: time, know-how and money.
Agreed.
: I don't know why I even bother writing this, but it makes me angry
: to see that the general attitude among people seems to be that if you
: can take something without anyone noticing, it's alright.
I didn't say it was alright. I said it was a false analogy. You have two
different scenarios, where the meanings of "ownership" and "theft" are
radically different. Since the issue depends critically on the meanings of
these concepts, the analogy explains nothing.
: [Cue ObCrackerRemark]
Where? You seem to be reading things into my words which are not there.
: >: you leave your house unlocked, it's alright for me to walk in there
: >: and take whatever I like?
: >No. You are free to observe and remember whatever you like, so long as you
: >do not remove or damage anything.
: Huh? Which country/planet are you from?
Scotland/Earth. ;)
: Trespassing?
There is no law of trespass here, and I would not agree with there being one.
You are only in the wrong if you damage or take my property, not if you simply
go near or look at it. I could argue that you would damage my floor by walking
on it, or my air by breathing it, but that would surely be rather petty.
-- Mat.
Mathew Hendry
: >: answered, so it turned into a general discussion of copyright.
: > No, it turned into a mess of bad analogies.
: Exactly, and since neither you nor, apparently, anyone else can answer
: the question, I see no point in continuing the thread.
The question has a clear and well-accepted answer, both legally and ethically.
Should a discussion stop simply because the original topic has been exhausted?
If so, you must have some truly fascinating conversations. ;)
-- Mat.
Neil Bothwick
Paul Copsey said,
> In <980.703...@wirenet.co.uk>,
> Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
>> It's a shame, because many Amiga owners don't have the facility to
>> install the PC version. According to the docs, you need a PC to do it.
>> You could use a bridgeboard or the registered versions of PC-Task or
>> PCx. But the hardfiles in the unregged versions are either read-only
>> or too small.
> Nope, all you need to do is to type lha x resource.1 (after having
> joined it if you didn't download the single zipfiles version)
Strange then that AmigaQuake.doc says
"Smash this executable over the installed Quake directory. (You have to install
Quake shareware or Quake registered on a PC, then copy the entire Quake
directory to your Amiga)."
:-O
Neil
--
Neil Bothwick, Warrington, England - CU Amiga CD compiler
Connected via Wirenet - The UK's first Amiga-only internet access provider
mailto:in...@wirenet.co.uk http://www.wirenet.co.uk
--
Never kiss anything that doesn't have lips.
Casper
On 04 Apr 97 08:45:51 +0000, Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
: It is interesting that ID are apparently not commenting directly on
: this, despite having been contacted about it.
This is because they are trying to turn a blind eye to it,
because the fact that they've got hold of the code (and how
it was stolen) is both embarrassing, and most probably due
to the code being stolen they really don't want to say
"Yeah, it's fine."
The way I see it, they've given their consent, but "haven't
put anything down on paper". Of course, this is just one
interpretation of the observation, it could be a number
of other things.
Stu. :)
--
Stuart Tomlinson http://spasm.redcat.org.uk/~stuart IRC: Casper
Manchester, England Team AMIGA
'Dying? It's sort of like, being born again, but backwards. I didn't go
where I was supposed to go, I stayed back, so my Dad wouldn't get lonely.'
Espen Berntsen
tim (dan...@angeldos.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: >Once and for all. The definitive "straight dope" on that AmiQuake "port"
: >everyone's buzzing about. The source code was obtained from someone named
:
: This should be interesting..
Except there was a mistake even in the second line, AFAIK it was not
obtained from max, but rather by him on from someone else on the net, as
the source was 'freely' available for a few days after someone hacked a
site.
: >^MAX^, he belongs to a rather nefarious group of individuals who
: >re-distribute their own versions of otherwise commercially available
: >software (read between the blurry lines here, folks). With the code he
: >acquired, he re-wrote it in order to work on the Amiga, a daunting task,
: >no doubt. In fact, he's implemented some features not in the original, and
: >that are exclusive to that particular port. ^MAX^ is continuing to develop
: >this version, and is actually planning to completely re-write it in
: >assembler.
:
: The code was on a public FTP site BTW.
Not unless you call http://www.crack.com a public ftp site.
[iD statement saying the do not care about an amiga port]
: >I hope this helps eliminate some of the recent posts to the NG's. Post
: >this "FAQ" anywhere you want. Just leave it as you found it...
:
: I wouldn't bother since it's far from accurate.
That we can agree on :)
Espen
Espen Berntsen
Mathew Hendry (sca...@dial.pipex.com) wrote:
: : you leave your house unlocked, it's alright for me to walk in there
: : and take whatever I like?
:
: No. You are free to observe and remember whatever you like, so long as you
: do not remove or damage anything.
As a second thought to this comment.
if you had received a not stating you had AIDS and would die within the
next 6 months, you actually means it is OK for me to go in, photocopy the
document and put it up on posters ? After all, I didn't steal anything,
just merely copied and published it.
Espen
Thomas Tavoly
In article <1135.7035...@wirenet.co.uk> Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> writes:
> Paul Copsey said,
>
> > Nope, all you need to do is to type lha x resource.1 (after having
> > joined it if you didn't download the single zipfiles version)
>
> Strange then that AmigaQuake.doc says
>
> "Smash this executable over the installed Quake directory. (You have to install
> Quake shareware or Quake registered on a PC, then copy the entire Quake
> directory to your Amiga)."
Have you tried? The docs are wrong.
...
_ . Thomas Tavoly
. _ // . aTm...@amiga.cistron.nl
. \X/ http://www.cistron.nl/~ttavoly
... 5.0
Neil Bothwick
Mathew Hendry said,
> In comp.sys.amiga.graphics Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
>: Exactly, and since neither you nor, apparently, anyone else can answer
>: the question, I see no point in continuing the thread.
> The question has a clear and well-accepted answer, both legally and
> ethically.
I'm sorry, i must have missed that article. Where was the
authoritative statement on the legality of AmigaQuake that I initially
asked about?
> Should a discussion stop simply because the original topic has
> been exhausted? If so, you must have some truly fascinating conversations.
No, but in this case it was a question, not a discussion, and the
question was never answered.
Neil
--
Neil Bothwick, Warrington, England - CU Amiga CD compiler
Connected via Wirenet - The UK's first Amiga-only internet access provider
mailto:in...@wirenet.co.uk http://www.wirenet.co.uk
--
Are you sure this isn't the time for a colorful metaphor?
Mathew Hendry
: > In comp.sys.amiga.graphics Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
: >: Exactly, and since neither you nor, apparently, anyone else can answer
: >: the question, I see no point in continuing the thread.
: > The question has a clear and well-accepted answer, both legally and
: > ethically.
: I'm sorry, i must have missed that article.
To my knowledge, no such article appeared.
: Where was the
: authoritative statement on the legality of AmigaQuake that I initially
: asked about?
Look it up in a book on international copyright law. Duplication of material
covered by copyright, without the permission of the copyright holder, is
legally indefensible.
The rumour that Id is prepared to let this violation pass does not affect the
principle. Until Id makes an official statement to say otherwise, AmigaQuake
is illegal. Whatever Id's decision, the preceding versions have been illegal.
: > Should a discussion stop simply because the original topic has
: > been exhausted? If so, you must have some truly fascinating conversations.
: No, but in this case it was a question, not a discussion, and the
: question was never answered.
The question stopped as soon as you finished asking it. What was it that you
felt should stop?
-- Mat.
Mathew Hendry
Espen Berntsen <name...@mo.himolde.no> wrote:
Right, you would be doing nothing wrong in doing this (although there are laws
here covering the dissemination of medical documents). You would simply be an
inconsiderate and malicious bastard.
ObSmiley ;)
-- Mat.
Neil Bothwick
Mathew Hendry said,
>: > The question has a clear and well-accepted answer, both legally and
>: > ethically.
>: I'm sorry, i must have missed that article.
> To my knowledge, no such article appeared.
Exactly, I posted a question, there was no answer givemn.
>: Where was the
>: authoritative statement on the legality of AmigaQuake that I initially
>: asked about?
> Look it up in a book on international copyright law. Duplication of material
> covered by copyright, without the permission of the copyright holder, is
> legally indefensible.
That wasn't what I asked.
> The rumour that Id is prepared to let this violation pass does not affect
> the principle. Until Id makes an official statement to say otherwise,
> AmigaQuake is illegal. Whatever Id's decision, the preceding versions have
> been illegal.
I've never doubted that any program based on someone else's source
code, used without their permission, was illegal. I was asking for
confirmatio, or otherwise, of ID's position on AmigaQuake, in view of
the statement allegedly from ID in the docs.
>: > Should a discussion stop simply because the original topic has
>: > been exhausted? If so, you must have some truly fascinating
>: > conversations.
>: No, but in this case it was a question, not a discussion, and the
>: question was never answered.
> The question stopped as soon as you finished asking it. What was it that you
> felt should stop?
Stop? I didn't use the word stop. I said "I see no point in continuing
the thread". I posted to try and gain information, I didn't want to
get drawn into yet another copyright discussion, the same as crops up
every time someone posts about ROM images for ShapeShifter or UAE :(
Neil
--
Neil Bothwick, Warrington, England - CU Amiga CD compiler
Connected via Wirenet - The UK's first Amiga-only internet access provider
mailto:in...@wirenet.co.uk http://www.wirenet.co.uk
--
Beware of cover disks bearing upgrades.
Paul Copsey
In <5i64jq$8...@neptune.theplanet.co.uk>,
Stefan Boberg <bob...@team17.com> wrote:
> No, nothing was been _removed_ from crack.com, but something was
> *TAKEN*. Someone is now in possession of something they have not paid
> for. Something in which the authors invested a considerable amount of
> time, know-how and money.
>
> to see that the general attitude among people seems to be that if you
> being found out that makes people feel bad about stealing, and not the
> theft in itself. But I guess that's just the way it is, and has always
> been.
Would anyone like to estimate the amount of money ID software have
lost by the fact that someone obtained the source and ported it to the
Amiga?
My estimate would be that their loss is negative.
I'm not saying I agree with ripping off people's source code, but the
simple fact in this case is that ID have gained another outlet for
their product for absolutely no cost. The sourcecode apparently had
been kicking around for a while anyway, and had previously been ported
to other machines, I doubt they had the same stupid morality arguments
and "Run and tell Mommy (ID in this case)" attitude that we've had
here.
Paul
Jorn Hansson
Philip Kaulfuss wrote:
> =
> Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
> =
> : Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
> : whether this is a legal port of Quake.
> =
> Not really. But apparently iD know and accept it.
*NO* DAMMIT! Someone made it up!!! You are fooled!!!
Why not search the web for an ID press-realease regarding
Amigaquake? You'll never find one, because they have *NOT*
commented on the matter!!!
/J=F6rn Hansson
Philip Kaulfuss
Mathew Hendry (sca...@dial.pipex.com) wrote:
: : Huh? Which country/planet are you from?
: Scotland/Earth. ;)
Yay! Whereabouts in Scotland? I'm in Dunfermline/Fife (Hiy sir!)
Zig Zag
On Sun, 06 Apr 1997 18:01:19 Jorn Hansson wrote about "Re: DOWNLOAD AMIGA QUAKE!!":
Id has remained silent on the issue, and I think this silence says a lot! They
do not *give a shit* about Amiga Quake. Why would or should they. All it is
doing is increasing their sales of the PC version to Amiga users who will buy it
if they want to play the whole game, and they have not invested one single penny
to accomplish this. All this talk and waste of bandwidth talking about if it is
stolen of justified is *bullshit* and a waste of time. They obviously do not
care...can you understand that "they don't give a flyin' shit either way". It is
putting some extra bucks in their pockets and no expense to them...they don't
give a *shit*! The whole waste of bandwidth is rediculious! Instead of posting
these repeated messages here over and over and over again....why the hell don't
one of you just call Id and friggin' ask them?
Zig Zag
On 06 Apr 1997 17:07:25 Espen Berntsen wrote about "Re: The Straight Dope on AmigaQUAKE":
>
> tim (dan...@angeldos.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> : >Once and for all. The definitive "straight dope" on that AmiQuake "port"
> : >everyone's buzzing about. The source code was obtained from someone named
> :
> : This should be interesting..
>
> Except there was a mistake even in the second line, AFAIK it was not
> obtained from max, but rather by him on from someone else on the net, as
> the source was 'freely' available for a few days after someone hacked a
> site.
>
> : >^MAX^, he belongs to a rather nefarious group of individuals who
> : >re-distribute their own versions of otherwise commercially available
> : >software (read between the blurry lines here, folks). With the code he
> : >acquired, he re-wrote it in order to work on the Amiga, a daunting task,
> : >no doubt. In fact, he's implemented some features not in the original, and
> : >that are exclusive to that particular port. ^MAX^ is continuing to develop
> : >this version, and is actually planning to completely re-write it in
> : >assembler.
Three cheers for Max. His skill is amazing!
Kim Roar Utsi
On the 06-Apr-97 00:19:08, Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk>,
wrote in "Re: DOWNLOAD AMIGA QUAKE!!!"
> Philip Kaulfuss said,
>> Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
>>: > Not really. But apparently iD know and accept it. Do I detect a hint
>>: > of putting the shareware version of Quake along with the Amiga
>>: > executable on next month's CUCD? ;)
>>: Not any more :(
>> Aww. =(
> It's a shame, because many Amiga owners don't have the facility to
> install the PC version. According to the docs, you need a PC to do it.
> You could use a bridgeboard or the registered versions of PC-Task or
> PCx. But the hardfiles in the unregged versions are either read-only
> or too small.
> Anyone wanna buy a bridgeboard? ;-)
You don't need an PC to install the quake#?.zip files at all. There's an ICE
archive whit-in the zip archive, and the ICE archive can be dearchived by
using LhA on your Amiga. I should know, 'coz it was the way i installed
quake here. Just dearchive the zip file using UnZip and then take an lha x
#?.ICE (I'm not certain it had the ICE extension) and away you go quaking.
Kim Roar Utsi, http://www.arcticnet.no/~kimme, 6-Apr-97 08:11:20
Using a4000, CyberStorm 060, CyberVision 64 and Thor 2.4
Official BETA tester for Angband, Amiga
"The Amiga is like an John Wayne Movie. It's been to hell and back!"
-Dwight Parscale, President of NewTek Inc.
Per Jacobsen
tim (dan...@angeldos.demon.co.uk) wrote:
> >Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
> >: Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
> >: whether this is a legal port of Quake.
> >It can't be legal. The code was stolen from crack.dot.com by someone, and
> >spread on the internet (AFAIK). Whichever ports arose from this cannot be
> >legal, since iD have not had a say in them.
> Define theft from a public server
What public server? It's not on their own. You can get Wolfenstein though...
Per Jacobsen
Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
> Ryooshi said,
> > Stefan Boberg (bob...@team17.com) wrote:
> >: Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
> >: >Or even Aminet. But does anyone have an authoritative answer as to
> >: >whether this is a legal port of Quake.
> >: No, it's not.
> > Wait a mintute, wait minute... I've heard it said SEVERAL times that this
> > 'port' is NOT a port of the actual game! You still have to get the game!
> > AFAIK, this is not a 'Myst' situation. Why would you still have to get the
> > original game then?
> For the data files. AmiQuake is, allegedly, a port of the original
> Quake source, which is why it works with the PC data files.
Which take up around 50 megs :)
Geir Are Skjeret
Paul Copsey wrote:
>Would anyone like to estimate the amount of money ID software have
>lost by the fact that someone obtained the source and ported it to the
>My estimate would be that their loss is negative.
Yes, we've been over this. The issue is legal, not moral.
--
Geir Are Skjeret
"As the catterpiller layeth its eggs on the fairest leaves, so also
the priest layeth his curse on the fairest joys" - William Blake
jgi...@bfs.unibol.com
In article <334585...@mail.zynet.co.uk>,
Marc <s...@mail.zynet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> jgi...@bfs.unibol.com wrote:
> > id have said they dont care about AQuake.
>
> So many people have said. I'd like to see a link to the
> evidence on the ID software web site, if it's all the same..
Hmm, yeah, usenet is the only place Ive see it too. It *would* be
nice to get the definitive word from id themselves.
/John
--
John Girvin
UNIBOL400 Development
jgi...@bfs.unibol.com gi...@girvnet.demon.co.uk
http://www.unibol.com http://www.girvnet.demon.co.uk
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
jgi...@bfs.unibol.com
In article <1135.7035...@wirenet.co.uk>,
Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Paul Copsey said,
>
> > In <980.703...@wirenet.co.uk>,
> > Neil Bothwick <ne...@wirenet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >> install the PC version. According to the docs, you need a PC to do it.
> >> You could use a bridgeboard or the registered versions of PC-Task or
> >> PCx. But the hardfiles in the unregged versions are either read-only
> >> or too small.
>
> > joined it if you didn't download the single zipfiles version)
>
> Strange then that AmigaQuake.doc says
>
> "Smash this executable over the installed Quake directory. (You have to install
> Quake shareware or Quake registered on a PC, then copy the entire Quake
> directory to your Amiga)."
Strange indeed. I think the secret must be to not read the doc, because I
dont have a PC and I managed to install AQuake alright :)
/John.
--
John Girvin
TURBO TOMATO Development
Jaco Schoonen
Neil Bothwick (ne...@wirenet.co.uk) wrote:
: It's a shame, because many Amiga owners don't have the facility to
: install the PC version. According to the docs, you need a PC to do it.
: You could use a bridgeboard or the registered versions of PC-Task or
: PCx. But the hardfiles in the unregged versions are either read-only
: or too small.
Not true. The large file (I forgot the name) which is unpacked by
'deice.exe' is just an lha-file. Try lha x 'bigfile' and it might give a few
errors, but allows you to extract the needed datafile.
Most amiga-user have lha around I think...
Maybe the readme of the next version will tell this hint...
--
Jaco Schoonen
(ja...@stack.nl)
D Pidcock
Robert...@panam.wimsey.com (Robert Robson) writes:
> NB> It seems that no one at ID Software is prepared to comment either
> NB> way.
>
> Well they should respond because most people see silence as consent !!
Which is probably why they haven't responded.
- Dan
D.Pi...@bath.ac.uk : http://www.bath.ac.uk/~enpdp/home.html
+44 1225 826826 x5961
Jeroen T. Vermeulen
In article <334591...@post5.tele.dk> Michael Pedersen <sabo...@post5.tele.dk> writes:
> Stefan Boberg wrote:
> > So what you're saying is: if I leave my car unlocked, it's alright
> > to steal it, since I did not take any precautions to protect it? If
> > you leave your house unlocked, it's alright for me to walk in there
> > and take whatever I like? Hmm? Nice one.
>
> I just hate it when people begin comparing computers/software/internet
> with houses and cars... pfffth... Nice one, Mr. Boberg.
He's right though. Absolutely right. Somebody could shoot you in the street
and say that if you didn't want to get shot, what were you doing out there
without kevlar hat and bulletproof vest in the first place?
Besides, copyright law puts the onus on the copier: If you want to copy or
distribute something, it's YOUR problem to make sure that you have the right to
do so (and it's always your problem to make sure you know the law).
As for the "public server" argument, merely allowing the public to copy
something is no different from distributing it. Except maybe it's only called
'criminal neglect' if you did it accidentally, or just plain neglect if you took
precautions that proved insufficient.
--
==========================================================================
# Jeroen T. Vermeulen \\"How are we doing?"// Yes, we use Amigas #
#--- j...@xs4all.nl ---\\"Same as always."//-- ... --#
#jver...@wi.leidenuniv.nl \\"That bad huh?"// Got a problem with that? #
Also known as a "humorless twit"
Jeroen T. Vermeulen
In article <1861.7034...@angeldos.demon.co.uk> tim <dan...@angeldos.demon.co.uk> writes:
> IF you leave you car unlocked and it's stolen then enjoy claiming on your
> insurance - they'd quite happily say "it's your fault". Why do you think
> insurance companies reward you for self arming immobilsers? :)
Fallacy. The insurance company will not, or at least not justifiably, say "it's
your fault". Just "we agreed that we'd compensate you for damage or loss on the
condition that you would take at least some minimum effort to prevent it".
That has NOTHING to do with the legal side of it apart from the obvious fact
that a clause in a signed contract is a binding part of the agreement.
> Crap analogies anyway - ID didn't *loose* the code - it has been duplicated and
> therefore they still own it.
They don't own the full value of it and the full control over it that they're
entitled to, because part of it has been taken away illegally. That's the
theft. Saying that the code was stolen is merely a notational convenience to
convey that.
Here's another car analogy: If you steal a taxicab and return it after use,
have you not stolen some of the owner's income?
> Anyway, not wanting to stray too much from the issue - I'd really like to see ID
> take anyone to court over this. First, you have to proove theft.
No, no, no, no, NO. If you want to copy copyrighted material, it's YOUR problem
to ensure that the author has allowed it. If somebody tells you that sure, it's
okay, everything's been arranged when it isn't, and you get caught, then the guy
has screwed YOU as much as he has the author.
And this is the way it's got to work for intellectual property to make any legal
sense: Distribution of copyrighted materials involves trust. It's all been
thought out very well a good time ago. The 'net poses no fundamentally new
problems here, apart from brain disuse so massive and widespread that entire
governments fail to notice that what they're trying to legislate has been
legislated very adequately already. Or ignore it because there's personal
political gain to be had out of getting a lot of brainless "hail the Progressive
Innovator" media coverage. Maybe it's got something to do with the dominance of
MS-DOS derivatives or something -- although I couldn't say which way the
connection runs.
> Third, you need hard evidence that
> the author has this sourcecode. I'm sorry, but it's not enough to point a
> finger and say "thats our game" when you need to buy ID's PC version to play it
> in any case. No money has been made thusfar, so none has been lost by ID.
Amazing logic... Not only is that impossible to prove, it is also something
that *nobody has the right to judge for the copyright holder*. Let's get really
wild here and start imagining things: What if the programmer had included his
credit-card number or private PGP key in the source somewhere, somehow? "But
Your Honour, when I illegally copied it how could I have guessed that he would
do something stupid like that?". What if they were Very Secretly working on a
separate Amiga version themselves and now discover that they won't be able to
sell it? "But Your Honour, it seemed like they weren't going to do that when I
stole it".
I think there are plenty of cases about petty thieves accidentally killing old
ladies while grabbing their handbags to guide His Honour in his judgment.
> Aside from anything else it would cost ID more in legal fees than any potential
> loss to them in what they percieve (and you from your previous posts) a dead
> market.
>
> The above is based on British law only.
Ahem. It is not based on any law. It is crap. To violate copyright is a CRIME
and you're encouraging people to commit it.
--
==========================================================================
# Jeroen T. Vermeulen \\"How are we doing?"// Yes, we use Amigas #
#--- j...@xs4all.nl ---\\"Same as always."//-- ... --#
#jver...@wi.leidenuniv.nl \\"That bad huh?"// Got a problem with that? #
Mozart was an acceptable composer, even by modern standards
Espen Berntsen
Paul Copsey (pa...@white-star.com) wrote:
: > I don't know why I even bother writing this, but it makes me angry
: > to see that the general attitude among people seems to be that if you
: > can take something without anyone noticing, it's alright. As if it is
: > being found out that makes people feel bad about stealing, and not the
: > theft in itself. But I guess that's just the way it is, and has always
: > been.
: Would anyone like to estimate the amount of money ID software have
: lost by the fact that someone obtained the source and ported it to the
let me see. Liscence agreement to use the Quake engine, nah, they probably
give it away for free anyway, so I guess they don't loose on it being
stolen.
: My estimate would be that their loss is negative.
Yeah, after all they give away all their stuff for free, so why shoudl a
theft add to their losses.
: I'm not saying I agree with ripping off people's source code, but the
: simple fact in this case is that ID have gained another outlet for
: their product for absolutely no cost. The sourcecode apparently had
: been kicking around for a while anyway, and had previously been ported
: to other machines, I doubt they had the same stupid morality arguments
: and "Run and tell Mommy (ID in this case)" attitude that we've had
: here.
They will sell NO copies to Amiga users based on the AQuake v.31 It is
unplayable even on a 060. Maybe it is faster by now, that I have no idea
of.
Espen
Alan L.M. Buxey
On Sat, 05 Apr 1997 19:11:32 GMT ,Stefan Boberg posted the following:
: >No. You are free to observe and remember whatever you like, so long as you
: >do not remove or damage anything.
: Huh? Which country/planet are you from?
: Trespassing?
trespassing is only true if you are caught and the owners of the
property dopnt liek it. you certainly havent traversed the law via
breaking and entering.....and you havent stolen anything.
alan
Alan L.M. Buxey
On 05 Apr 97 15:11:17 +0100 ,Anders Johansson posted the following:
: >You're right it's not! Dawn I was going to purchase a 50MHz FPU just to
: >try it out! Well I'm told is too slow on most Amiga systems anyway.
: Well, the FPU may not do so much better performance, on my 4000/040@40 with
: CyverVision 64 it's not even playable..
but thats only an 040 and thats only V0.31 your playing around with
version 0.57 and above are much much better
Alanm
Espen Berntsen
2.du.pipex.com>
Distribution: world
Mathew Hendry (sca...@dial.pipex.com) wrote:
: : As a second thought to this comment.
: : if you had received a not stating you had AIDS and would die within the
: : next 6 months, you actually means it is OK for me to go in, photocopy the
: : document and put it up on posters ? After all, I didn't steal anything,
: : just merely copied and published it.
:
: Right, you would be doing nothing wrong in doing this (although there
: are laws
: here covering the dissemination of medical documents). You would simply be an
: inconsiderate and malicious bastard.
Heh, in Norway it would be illegal I think. It should be at least.
Espen
Alan L.M. Buxey
On Sat, 5 Apr 1997 19:38:48 +0100 ,The Hidden posted the following:
: >Yes, that first message was misleading, as it stated that all ados's were
: >supported. Turns out Quake needs 3.1 - Nex
: >
: >
: nope works on 3
correct -any )S3.0 machine should be able to run it......so long as it
has an FPU - yes, even an 020+FPU combo will work...with 8MB of FastRAM
of course ;-)
alan
Alan L.M. Buxey
On 05 Apr 1997 20:58:30 -0600 ,Zig Zag posted the following:
: and download the AmigaQuake executable. Then I unzipped the PC shareware files
: into ram then unlha'd the resource file into a drawer called Quake. Then I
: unarc's the AmigaQuake.exe and copied it into the same drawer..and boom there is
: was AmigaQuake! I don't understand this having to use a PC?
certain ppl dont realize that the "deicer" program only sticks together
all of the quake files, and that the main archived program is lha'd
together...go figure why they think you need a PC....
alan
Alan L.M. Buxey
On 4 Apr 1997 01:09:14 GMT ,Ryooshi posted the following:
: game, period. It's a win-win situation for both parties. If anything, ID
: would end up making even more money from Amiga users!
correct. someone give this guy a prize ;-)
alan
Johan Rönnblom
> >
> > "Smash this executable over the installed Quake directory. (You have to install
> > Quake shareware or Quake registered on a PC, then copy the entire Quake
> > directory to your Amiga)."
>
> Strange indeed. I think the secret must be to not read the doc, because I
> dont have a PC and I managed to install AQuake alright :)
DRTFM ;)
/Johan Rönnblom, Team Amiga
Rob van der Veer
On 07 Apr 1997 14:14:10 Alan L.M. Buxey wrote about "Re: DOWNLOAD AMIGA QUAKE!!! (not!":
>
> : Well, the FPU may not do so much better performance, on my 4000/040@40 with
> : CyverVision 64 it's not even playable..
>
> but thats only an 040 and thats only V0.31 your playing around with
> version 0.57 and above are much much better
Why haven't we got that version, then?