Piracy made the Amiga

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JamieLemon

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Feb 3, 2002, 6:30:13 PM2/3/02
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although lots of people (probably correctly) blame piracy for eventually
killing the amiga games scene, you would do well to remember that the piracy
scene was also a great deal of help in making the amiga the most popular
home computer format (at least in the uk) for a long time.
When i was at school, the main choice for state-of-the-art games was between
the amiga, the st, the snes and the megadrive. part of the reason the amiga
was by far the most popular choice amongst my age range (despite being the
most expensive of the three) was the huge amount of games available freely
in the school playground. it was this fact alone that persuaded many of my
friends to go for an amiga over a snes.
everybody bought some original software as well as making illegal copies, so
in a way also contributed towards keeping the software scene alive.
other points in favour of piracy were where cracked versions of games were
better than the originals. or even the only versions available. would anyone
here ever have got the chance to play GreaT Giana Sisters if it wasn't for
commercial piracy? i find it hard to believe that anyone who owned an amiga
in its heyday could honestly say they never owned a piece of pirated
software.


Mika Hanhijärvi

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Feb 4, 2002, 3:18:10 AM2/4/02
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> i find it hard to believe that anyone who owned an amiga
> in its heyday could honestly say they never owned a piece of pirated
> software.

No you are propably right with that. Almost all of us have copied
sometimes something. But I don't know why you are writing this, what
are you trying to say ? One thing is sure, what you said is NOT any
valid reason for continuing piracy, it's just an bad excuse.

--
- Miksu -

Mika Hanhijärvi
mik...@evitech.fi
IRC: miksuh (IRCNet: #AmigaFIN)
Team *AMIGA*

JamieLemon

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Feb 4, 2002, 7:27:38 PM2/4/02
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Mika Hanhijärvi <mik...@evitech.fi> wrote in message
news:3C5E5FE2.MD-...@evitech.fi...

> > i find it hard to believe that anyone who owned an amiga
> > in its heyday could honestly say they never owned a piece of pirated
> > software.
>
> No you are propably right with that. Almost all of us have copied
> sometimes something. But I don't know why you are writing this, what
> are you trying to say ? One thing is sure, what you said is NOT any
> valid reason for continuing piracy, it's just an bad excuse.
>
sure, agreed on your last point. i wrote that because of some stuff i read
in another thread complaining about pirates. basically what i was trying to
say was that there were some good points of the late 80's early 90's amiga
piracy scene, as well as the often documented bad points. the bad points of
course outweighed the good, because in the end they destroyed the games
scene. but they made it more enjoyable while it lasted. a bit like taking
drugs i suppose.


Heikki Orsila

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Feb 5, 2002, 6:36:19 AM2/5/02
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JamieLemon <mat...@biscuitboy.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> everybody bought some original software as well as making illegal copies,
> so in a way also contributed towards keeping the software scene alive.
> [snip]
> would anyone here ever have got the chance to play Great Giana

> Sisters if it wasn't for commercial piracy?

That is even more the case with non-game software. When young people and
students make unauthorized copies of software they become potential
customers for the future. I think some degree of unauthorized copying is
essential for the whole software industry to get customers. I would
quote Bill Gates here (about unauthorized sw copying in China):

"At least it's our software they are pirating"

He said this few years ago.

Please don't use the term piracy, call it unauthorized copying.

--
Heikki Orsila 32 bittiä - entä sitten?
heikki...@ee.tut.fi http://www.pjoy.fi/lehdet/9212pj.htm
http://www.ee.tut.fi/~heikki - Petteri Järvinen (1992)

Colin Seddon

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Feb 16, 2002, 4:45:47 AM2/16/02
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Micro$oft is a big, faceless corporation that everybody hates. Any one of us
who are stuck with Outlook Express and its million security holes can vouch for
the truth in that. I think M$ piracy is done out of spite rather than anything
else.

>>> COL


StarEye

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Feb 16, 2002, 7:03:21 AM2/16/02
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"Colin Seddon" <Co...@cwas.freeserve.co.uk> skrev i melding
news:a4l9ku$ce3$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...

Exactly. I'll never buy a Microsoft product... they don't deserve it. I buy
PC-games. But I really hesitate to buy anything with a Microsoft logo on it.
Yuck.


Dracos Dragon

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Feb 16, 2002, 8:51:56 AM2/16/02
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"StarEye" <sta...@online.no> wrote in
news:dUrb8.7000$HL2.1...@news2.ulv.nextra.no:

> Exactly. I'll never buy a Microsoft product... they don't deserve it. I
> buy PC-games. But I really hesitate to buy anything with a Microsoft
> logo on it. Yuck.

While this is completely off topic for the group, I must say that I think
MS's hardware is actually quite good. The optical trackball of theirs (that
I use) is a superior product.

--

Dracos

Heikki Orsila

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Feb 16, 2002, 9:07:06 AM2/16/02
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StarEye <sta...@online.no> wrote:
> Exactly. I'll never buy a Microsoft product... they don't deserve it. I buy
> PC-games. But I really hesitate to buy anything with a Microsoft logo on it.
> Yuck.

You support m$ when you use their products. Buying them is of course even more
support. So buying games for win is supporting them. Playing with game
consoles is a way getting around this (except if you have x-box). I would buy
games for 'PC' if they were for GNU/Linux OS and if I would play anything at
all;) I would probably buy a game console (not x-box) if I wanted to play
something..

StarEye

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Feb 16, 2002, 9:39:30 AM2/16/02
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"Heikki Orsila" <us...@host.invalid> skrev i melding
news:a4lp2a$qii$1...@news.cc.tut.fi...

> StarEye <sta...@online.no> wrote:
> > Exactly. I'll never buy a Microsoft product... they don't deserve it. I
buy
> > PC-games. But I really hesitate to buy anything with a Microsoft logo on
it.
> > Yuck.
>
> You support m$ when you use their products. Buying them is of course even
more
> support. So buying games for win is supporting them. Playing with game
> consoles is a way getting around this (except if you have x-box). I would
buy
> games for 'PC' if they were for GNU/Linux OS and if I would play anything
at
> all;) I would probably buy a game console (not x-box) if I wanted to play
> something..
>

Well, actually I do own consoles too. But buying games for a PC is not
really supporting Microsoft, unless they're mainly a MS-produced game. I may
support them to a certain degree, but I really support the game-developers
more. Besides, most of the games I buy, doesn't even work on the newer
Windows. I just can't live without games like Day of the Tentacle, Full
Throttle, Sam and Max and older games like that. And of course, I just had
to have Civ 3 and Escape from Monkey Island (didn't know it would come to
PS2 when it came... if I only waited). A lot of consoles are mainly
action/adventure or racing/sports games too...

PS! Of course I won't buy and Xbox.

StarEye


parrugueira69

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Feb 16, 2002, 3:05:52 PM2/16/02
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> Well, actually I do own consoles too. But buying games for a PC is not
> really supporting Microsoft, unless they're mainly a MS-produced game. I
may


thats not true, if youre buying games for windows whether or not they are
made by microsoft you are in fact supporting microsoft's os. software sales
for any given os are naturally going to boost popularity, demand, and
distribution for that os. if its got all the best stuff, it is supported.


StarEye

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Feb 16, 2002, 5:32:32 PM2/16/02
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"parrugueira69" <parrugu...@hotmail.com> skrev i melding
news:AYyb8.119731$th4.33...@news02.optonline.net...

So what you're saying is we should abandon the really good game-developers
like LucasArts og Sierra from the early Amiga-days just because they produce
game only for Windoze? I'm just realistic... I may support the OS
indirectly, but it's not like I'm screaming out "Hey, Bill, I'm using
Windoze, and I'm loving every minute of it!" (that would be an obvious lie,
wouldn't it?). We can't do anything without supporting something or another
indirectly. If I buy a car, I support not only the producer of the car, but
also the producer of the parts for the car, if you catch my drift.

StarEye


Petr Voralek

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Feb 16, 2002, 7:13:20 PM2/16/02
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Al salaam a'alaykum Heikki! :^)

16-úno-02 15:07:06 wrote *Heikki Orsila* the following
in /"comp.sys.amiga.games"/ area about "Re: using m$ products is supporting them:(", and I quote (in part):

>> Exactly. I'll never buy a Microsoft product... they don't deserve it. I
>> buy PC-games. But I really hesitate to buy anything with a Microsoft logo
>> on it. Yuck.

HO> You support m$ when you use their products. Buying them is of course
HO> even more support. So buying games for win is supporting them. Playing

Because I'm not *thief*, i pay for software, which I use. Because I play
(for example) Ultima Online, I must use Windows (UO is AFAIK not ported to
any console, or other platform). If you don't like microsoft, then simply
don't use their software and hardware. Don't use it, *don't STEAL it*.

--
Petr Voralek <nazir@(comp|volny).cz>

... Two rules to success in life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know.

Joachim Froholt

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Feb 17, 2002, 4:21:57 AM2/17/02
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Beware, this is way Off-Topic!

Heikki Orsila wrote:

> StarEye <sta...@online.no> wrote:
> > Exactly. I'll never buy a Microsoft product... they don't deserve it. I buy
> > PC-games. But I really hesitate to buy anything with a Microsoft logo on it.
> > Yuck.
>
> You support m$ when you use their products. Buying them is of course even more
> support. So buying games for win is supporting them.

I understand your point, and agree, but people can't very well go around pirating
every game they want to play on the pc just because they don't want to support m$.
If I want to play Civ III, Serious Sam or Europa Universalis (three of the games
I'm playing these days), I must do it on my Windows based PC (though maybe EU is
available for other formats)..

And besides, if you follow this logic to the extreme, you can't buy Freespace,
Shogo or Heretic II for the Amiga. Because then you are indirectly supporting M$ -
Hyperion had to pay money to the companies who made the games for the PC, and so a
part of what you pay for the Amiga (or Linux where possible) version go to support
PC based development, and indeed, M$.

> Playing with game
> consoles is a way getting around this (except if you have x-box).

Yeah, but then you'd be supporting other megalomaniac companies instead, which is
just as bad. (and if consoles were my only choice for games, I'd cry for a very,
very long time and eventually leave the scene).

Joachim

Stuart Wilson

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Feb 18, 2002, 12:09:02 AM2/18/02
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Heikki Orsila <us...@host.invalid> wrote in message news:<a4lp2a$qii$1...@news.cc.tut.fi>...

> Playing with game
> consoles is a way getting around this (except if you have x-box).

No it wouldn't. By simply using consoles you'd be supporting both the
makers of games for consoles for moving away from the Amiga games
development scene. About 8 or 9 years ago it was decided the console
market was so lucrative that the income from Amiga games was pitiful
in comparison, so money and resources would be better spent in
developing for the console market. Quite why Micro$haft is getting the
blame here for the decisions of a multitude of companies abandoning
the Amiga for something which is, let's be honest, a damn sight more
profitable is beyond me. The only way it seems that the Amiga would've
survived is if the world turned Communist around 1987 and the leader
was a Miggy fan.

Stuart

Heikki Orsila

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Feb 18, 2002, 6:37:55 AM2/18/02
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Petr Voralek <na...@comp.cz> wrote:
> Heikki Orsila wrote the following

>> You support m$ when you use their products. Buying them is of course
>> even more support. So buying games for win is supporting them. Playing

> Because I'm not *thief*, i pay for software, which I use. Because I play
> (for example) Ultima Online, I must use Windows (UO is AFAIK not ported to
> any console, or other platform). If you don't like microsoft, then simply
> don't use their software and hardware. Don't use it, *don't STEAL it*.

I'm lawful in this sense. I use very little proprietary software. I don't make
unuathorized copies of programs and I don't use them. 99% of the software
on my computer is F/OSS (Free/Open Source Sofware). My behaviour is actually
more harmful to proprietary software developers than those who buy something
and copy something (unauthorizedly), because I have been moving away from
using any software which should be bought. I'm less likely a customer for
them in the future (of course I can not predict future;).

A small side point. Unauthorized copying is not stealing and it should not be
described as theft or piracy. It's illegal, but calling it stealing is not
very accurate since the other party loses nothing (but doesn't gain anything
either).

Rick Jones

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Feb 18, 2002, 10:34:47 PM2/18/02
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Colin Seddon wrote:

So dl and install Netscape. It's one of the first things I do on any
new computer.

--
Rick Jones
Remove the Extra Dot to e-mail me

Heikki Orsila

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Feb 18, 2002, 11:18:14 PM2/18/02
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Rick Jones <rick...@extra.lanset.com> wrote:
> Colin Seddon wrote:
>> Micro$oft is a big, faceless corporation that everybody hates. Any one of
>> us who are stuck with Outlook Express and its million security holes can
>> vouch for the truth in that. I think M$ piracy is done out of spite
>> rather than anything else.

> So dl and install Netscape. It's one of the first things I do on any new
> computer.

There are many organisations where using of m$ outlook is the only allowed
way to do it:( We have to fight for the freedom to use the tools we feel
are the best to get it done.

Ant

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Feb 19, 2002, 1:30:07 PM2/19/02
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> So dl and install Netscape. It's one of the first things I do on any
> new computer.

Though it pains me to say it, Internet Explorer is undoubtedly the king of
the web browsers, though. I've got 5 of them installed on this machine
(IE6, IE5.5, Netscape 6.1, Opera 5 and Lynx) and four on my Amiga (the
latest Voyager beta, Ibrowse 1.2, Ibrowse 2.1 and Aweb 3.2). Since version
4, IE has kicked the stuffing out of everything else in every department
from speed, through compatibility, to stability. Every other browser has
been left playing catch-up.


John Burns

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Feb 20, 2002, 9:47:40 PM2/20/02
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>Petr Voralek <na...@comp.cz> wrote:
>> Heikki Orsila wrote the following
>>> You support m$ when you use their products. Buying them is of course
>>> even more support. So buying games for win is supporting them. Playing

>> Because I'm not *thief*, i pay for software, which I use. Because I play
>> (for example) Ultima Online, I must use Windows (UO is AFAIK not ported to
>> any console, or other platform). If you don't like microsoft, then simply
>> don't use their software and hardware. Don't use it, *don't STEAL it*.

>I'm lawful in this sense. I use very little proprietary software. I don't
>make unuathorized copies of programs and I don't use them. 99% of the
>software on my computer is F/OSS (Free/Open Source Sofware). My behaviour is
>actually more harmful to proprietary software developers than those who buy
>something and copy something (unauthorizedly), because I have been moving
>away from using any software which should be bought. I'm less likely a
>customer for them in the future (of course I can not predict future;).

>A small side point. Unauthorized copying is not stealing and it should not be
>described as theft or piracy. It's illegal, but calling it stealing is not
>very accurate since the other party loses nothing (but doesn't gain anything
>either).

Obviously the law differs from country to country but in general the term theft
does not imply a physical loss, though it usually does.

Colin Seddon

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Feb 23, 2002, 3:15:30 AM2/23/02
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Alright, this has gone too far. I'm working on the same principles here as for
the World Trade Centre. We're all supporting M$ right now by talking about
them! As long as we're talking about them, they're winning!

>>> COL


Colin Seddon

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Feb 23, 2002, 3:21:30 AM2/23/02
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> > So dl and install Netscape. It's one of the first things I do on any new
> > computer.
>
> There are many organisations where using of m$ outlook is the only allowed
> way to do it:(

There are six of us, we use these Outlook Express 'security' holes to do some
pretty advanced stuff with each other. So while they're a curse in some ways,
they're a blessing in others. Did you know that there are at least 73 different
ways to get somebody's OE password? We get around the actual security problems
with firewalls and proxies we coded ourselves... well, I wrote the firewall we
use, somebody else wrote the proxy.

>>> COL


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