Amiga platform games suck... S-NES and Genesis is breathtaking.
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
I don't believe this is happening again but... a long while ago, I
bought an 8bit NES system because the games were so much better than
my C64... then, I bought an 8bit Sega system because it seemed better
than a nintendo... (35 Nintendo and 10 sega games later) I sold them
all to get my hands on an amiga500. Wow! the games kicked the tar
our of any of those systems!
Today, I just rented Street Fighter II and a S-NES system for $15 on
3 days from Blockbusters Video... I am in total awe. It is
exactly like the arcade!!!! I cannot tell them apart!!!! I'm
not going to sell my Amiga for a S-NES but at the rate at how
poor the quality of games for the Amiga is goin... I might as well
buy one of these systems.
Does Final Fight compare to the arcade? I'm asking since I don't think
they have Street Fighter II for the Amiga right? *My thumbs are sore
for playing the game for 11 hours straight now... :)*
alan
Marc J. Brown
>
>Today, I just rented Street Fighter II and a S-NES system for $15 on
>3 days from Blockbusters Video... I am in total awe. It is
>exactly like the arcade!!!! I cannot tell them apart!!!! I'm
>not going to sell my Amiga for a S-NES but at the rate at how
>poor the quality of games for the Amiga is goin... I might as well
>buy one of these systems.
You're making it sound like "SNES and Genesis will be the Amiga's undoing."
Not as such. I bought a SNES and got StreetFighter2 the day it was out in
Japan (I don't live there, no), and you're right, it's really close, and it
makes the SNES worthwhile. But how does this affect the Amiga? It doesn't.
The Amiga isn't quite capable of handling what the SNES does in the video-
gaming area, but then most people don't buy their Amiga 100% for games.
But those who do realize that the Amiga has a special trait that all
computers have: Cheap storage medium. Therefore, Amiga-owners don't go
head-over-heels over a 2-megabyte game; it's a fairly standard size (when
you consider that they DO compress)... what good is it? It doesn't help
gameplay; that's up to the coders. It DOES help promote excellent music,
sound effects, and animations. The music for SF2, as I'm sure you noticed,
is a giant leap down from what the arcade produced. So are the sound
effects. In fact, there were corners cut wherever they could be, in graphics,
sprite count, etc. Yet if they didn't have to worry about the size of the
cart, they could practically have had a carbon-copy of the arcade version,
as opposed to a "pretty darn close!" copy, since the SNES's hardware
theoretically allows for such a feat.
Back to the fact that most people don't have Amigas for games... I myself
bought mine because I was tired of Nintendo-ish music, and fed up with
low-grade synth (a-la SoundBlaster). The Amiga still has the most impressive
sound in any micro (aside from the SNES, which is not a computer), after all
these years. I also got it for entertainment, but games are not all there
is (referring, of course, to EuroDemos).
Enough lecturing. Comments are unavoidable :)
_ __ ___ ____ _____ _____________ __ _ ___ ___ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
///_//__//___//____//_______ _ \\// \\ // \V/ )/ )/ )/ )/ )/ ) // // //
mjb...@lonestar.utsa.edu / // /) )/ _ \V/ _ // (/ // _ // (/ / \X/ \X/ \X/
"You fat, bloated BAKA!!" (_/(_/(_/(_/ \_)\_)\_)\___/(_/ \_)\___/ of Megawatts
James D. Robbins
>alan
Perhaps you should consider that the amiga is not only a game machine. There
are many arcade quality games I have seen on the amiga. Ever see a game by
Psygnosis? You know, you can render or Word process or do a hundred more
things with an amiga. And besides the Super NES is only a 3.5 MhZ Machine.
It has terible slowdown problems when you have a game with a lot of sprites
and things. Just check out Super R-Type and you will see what I mean. Later.
--
///\ You know it rules!! | Jim Robbins Jr.
///__\ _____ __ | rob...@iastate.edu
\\\///----\ /\ /\ | / _ /\ | Ames, Iowa, USA
\XX/ \ / \/ \ __|__ \__/ /--\ | 515-292-4886 or 515-292-3271
Chuck Woo
>Back to the fact that most people don't have Amigas for games... I myself
>bought mine because I was tired of Nintendo-ish music, and fed up with
>low-grade synth (a-la SoundBlaster). The Amiga still has the most impressive
>sound in any micro (aside from the SNES, which is not a computer), after all
>these years.
SNES?!? the few SNES games I've seen (on tv shows or in person) put me
into alternating fits of laughter and pain, as far as sound is concerned.
the classic example of this is Super Mario World, which they demo at the
local Software Etc.; it's so horrendous I don't even go there anymore!
(okay, well, I don't go there cuz the amiga selection stinks, too)
I actually used to think the mac had good sound, when I heard one playing
a sample from that old game Uninvited... until I heard an amiga :)
--
---------------------------------------------///
Chuck Woo wch...@ocf.berkeley.edu ///
(bubba buh boo dee do buh boo dee do..) \\\///
-----------------------------------------\XX/
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>Back to the fact that most people don't have Amigas for games... I myself
>bought mine because I was tired of Nintendo-ish music, and fed up with
>low-grade synth (a-la SoundBlaster). The Amiga still has the most impressive
>sound in any micro (aside from the SNES, which is not a computer), after all
>these years. I also got it for entertainment, but games are not all there
>is (referring, of course, to EuroDemos).
>
>Enough lecturing. Comments are unavoidable :)
>
Most people also don't pay as much attention to the sound f/x as they do
the animation and game plot... Talking about what the amiga can do is
way off line. The is CSA.games remember? You seem to place too much
emphasis on sound and (whoopee) Euro Demos. I've not seen many games that
can match those found in the new gaming consoles.
alan
Ryan Jon Lippert
If these is one % of doubt weather to get a console or an Amiga. He needs
a console, Because if he buys an Amiga he MIGHT even be creative with it
and do something worthwhile. Instead of joining the masses of Zombie Console
gamers. But if games he wants a console is for him..
Marc J. Brown
>In article <1992Jul31.0...@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mjb...@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown) writes:
>>The Amiga still has the most impressive
>>sound in any micro (aside from the SNES, which is not a computer), after all
>>these years.
>
>SNES?!? the few SNES games I've seen (on tv shows or in person) put me
>into alternating fits of laughter and pain, as far as sound is concerned.
Well, the Amiga currently has 4-voice digitized at 51Khz, which is awesome
(and great quality) (8-bit, of course). The SNES has 8-voice digitized at
who-knows-what (probably max 22.1 Khz), which is a step up from 4 voices...
However, the SNES's current incapability to use inexpensive data-storage
media (like disks and CDs) makes it to where programmers for it are afraid
to spend too much ROM on sound. Consequentially, we usually hear sound from
it that sounds no better than what the Genesis does. Once the CD-ROM comes
out, that won't be a problem (yet, it WILL raise the overall price beyond
what an A500 costs these days :).
Marc J. Brown
>
>the animation and game plot... Talking about what the amiga can do is
>way off line. The is CSA.games remember?
I was giving examples for my original relevant statements.
>You seem to place too much
>emphasis on sound and (whoopee) Euro Demos.
Your point? What can I say? I like both of those aspects of the Amiga
experience :). Sound is vital for games, and EuroDemos are great at proving
that the Amiga is just as capable as the average console.
>I've not seen many games that
>can match those found in the new gaming consoles.
'Cause people don't expect to sell their games for $60 when they code for the
Amiga. You get what you pay for. Besides, the Amiga is a computer, not
a one-capability console. It makes more sense to compare its gaming ability
to that of other computers (though that's not what this thread's about :).
UD19...@ndsuvm1.bitnet
In response to the statement on the quality of Street Fighter II on the
SNES: SF II on the SNES is a 16 Megabyte cartridge. Could you imagine what
could be produced on the Amiga if they used 16 megs? Just think they could
have used HAM and had digitized sound. This, IMO, would make SF II better than
the arcade version. Also, the SNES version only supports playing 8 of the
characters. They are a few more than that, 16 I believe, on the arcade.
If you think the SNES is good, fine, but just realize how much memory they
had to use in order to make that game in the first place. I think Monkey
Island on the Amiga is much more advanced because of what they squeezed into
slightly less than 4 megabytes... Just my $.02 worth.
Kenneth Churchill
K5...@cunyvm.bitnet
says:
MEGABYTES.big difference,eh?Besides,people buy the SNES for its' action games
and we bought the Amiga for other purposes.:)
L8r!
KLAZAR
P.S. I haven't figured out how to delete lines with this program.Can someone
help me?Thanx.I hate to waste bandwidth.
Clayton Miner
Well, one ofthe best uses I put my old, steam-driven Amiga 1000 to is playing
digitized sound effects for my gamers while we are playing whatever it is we
are playing. Can't beat the look on the face of a new gamer when the party has
a run in with an Imperial Walker and I play a sample that shakes the floor...
;)
Skeksis
Richard McGowen
>
>
> In response to the statement on the quality of Street Fighter II on the
>SNES: SF II on the SNES is a 16 Megabyte cartridge. Could you imagine what
16 MegaBIT probably. Only equals 2 Megabytes.
>could be produced on the Amiga if they used 16 megs? Just think they could
>have used HAM and had digitized sound. This, IMO, would make SF II better than
Ham does not work well for animation.
>the arcade version. Also, the SNES version only supports playing 8 of the
>characters. They are a few more than that, 16 I believe, on the arcade.
SF II only supports 8, it is the championship version or whatever that
supports more.
> If you think the SNES is good, fine, but just realize how much memory they
>had to use in order to make that game in the first place. I think Monkey
>Island on the Amiga is much more advanced because of what they squeezed into
>slightly less than 4 megabytes... Just my $.02 worth.
>
>
> Kenneth Churchill
I am not trying to attack you. I personally own an amiga and would
rather stick with amigas. I just like to avoid spreading
misinformation.
Richard
(Hopefully the "new product" line this fall will include chips that can
blow the SNES away.)
Steven T Chiang
>
>SNES: SF II on the SNES is a 16 Megabyte cartridge. Could you imagine what
>could be produced on the Amiga if they used 16 megs? Just think they could
>have used HAM and had digitized sound. This, IMO, would make SF II
>better than the arcade version. Also, the SNES version only supports
>playing 8 of the characters. They are a few more than that, 16 I
>believe, on the arcade.
Ahh, but now you are showing your ignorance. SF2 is a 16
megabit cartridge which is very different from 16 megabytes. 16
megabits = 2 megs.
SF2 for the SNES is simply Street Fighter II. Not Street
Fighter II: The Championship Edition. The CE version allows you to
play the extra 4 characters.
> If you think the SNES is good, fine, but just realize how much memory they
>had to use in order to make that game in the first place. I think Monkey
>Island on the Amiga is much more advanced because of what they squeezed into
>slightly less than 4 megabytes... Just my $.02 worth.
Actually, the SNES doesn't have that much memory. I believe
it has 64k of video ram, and 128k of ram. There are other ram areas,
but they are trivial...
Steven Chiang Order - DreamGrafix: The ONLY 16/256/3200
st...@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu color paint program for the Apple IIGS.
America On_Line: DWS Steve
Genie: S.Chiang4 Apple IIGS Forever!
Gregory G Greene
>
>
>(Hopefully the "new product" line this fall will include chips that can
>blow the SNES away.)
But will the new chipset get any support from game companies? I
can see 3d graphics packages and video software supporting it, but not
game software. It seems to me that game companies still look at the
A500 with 1 meg as the machine to sell to. Will A500's or A600's be able
to use the new chipset? If not, I can't see many game companies making
an effort to support it.
G.Greene
George Francis McBay
>
>
>SNES: SF II on the SNES is a 16 Megabyte cartridge. Could you imagine what
Actually it's 2 Megabytes. Don't fall for Console Makers use
of "Mega" or "MB" they stand for MegaBIT, 1/8 of a MegaBYTE.
Ryan Jon Lippert
roms are in bits not BYTES, It just sounds cool '16 MEG POWER!!!'
just my $.02 worth
.
Travis Prebble
>
>
> In response to the statement on the quality of Street Fighter II on the
> SNES: SF II on the SNES is a 16 Megabyte cartridge. Could you imagine what
> could be produced on the Amiga if they used 16 megs? Just think they could
> have used HAM and had digitized sound. This, IMO, would make SF II better th
> Kenneth Churchill
Sorry, but it is 16 megaBITS, not megabytes. Every game in the console
arena is measured in megabits (2 meg, 4 meg, 8 meg, 12 meg, 16 meg...).
Unless they are using some REALLY good compression, I don't think anybody
is going to fit 16 megabytes into a cartridge no bigger than a postcard.
----------------------------------------------------------///\------------
Travis Prebble @ Heart of Gold BBS (814) 238-9633 /// \
INet address: cru...@hogbbs.scol.pa.us \\\///----\
(814) 353-9069 \XX/ \ MIGA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
TARDIS Express: When it absolutely, positively has to be there yesterday.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc J. Brown
>>Richard
>>
>>
>>(Hopefully the "new product" line this fall will include chips that can
>>blow the SNES away.)
>
> But will the new chipset get any support from game companies? I
> can see 3d graphics packages and video software supporting it, but not
> game software.
My predictions: Once the new chipset is made available to A500 owners,
the many coders of EuroDemos will begin to support the new capabilities
(which, according to rumor, include VGA display&selection), and this will
result in most other people going ahead and buying the new chipset. Once
game companies realize this, they'll start supporting it, and porting IBM
games will be a much simpler task so we'll probably see a lot more of that
too. Don't forget that many of the more professional EuroDemo coders are
beginning to code games as well.
Richard McGowen
><UD19...@NDSUVM1.BITNET> writes:
>
>>
>>
>Unless they are using some REALLY good compression, I don't think anybody
>is going to fit 16 megabytes into a cartridge no bigger than a postcard.
>
than the current rip off prices they are already at.
--
Richard McGowen mcg...@cse.ucsc.edu
PC == Permanently Closeminded
Gregory G Greene
>>>blow the SNES away.)
>>
>> But will the new chipset get any support from game companies? I
>> can see 3d graphics packages and video software supporting it, but not
>> game software.
>
>My predictions: Once the new chipset is made available to A500 owners,
>the many coders of EuroDemos will begin to support the new capabilities
But will the new chipset work in A500's and A600's? The A600 is one
of CBM's new machines ( be it low-end ) and as far as I know, it doesn't
have the new chipset. Plus the way that it is made, makes it very difficult
to upgrade the chipset. Since this is the machine thats going to sell for
CBM, and not the supposedly upcoming higher end models in September, why
would game companies make any effort to support it. Every rumor I've heard
or read about indicates the new chipset is for the higher end Amiga's.
Granted, these are just rumors, but the A500's or A600's are never included
with the new chipset rumors. I hope CBM offers an upgrade, I guess we will
find out in September.
G.Greene
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>>You seem to place too much
>>emphasis on sound and (whoopee) Euro Demos.
>
>Your point? What can I say? I like both of those aspects of the Amiga
>experience :). Sound is vital for games, and EuroDemos are great at proving
>that the Amiga is just as capable as the average console.
Being "capable" and the act of actually doing it are again two different
scenarios. If the Amiga is soooo capable, then why don't we see knock out
"Euro-Demo" games? Again, I suppose seeing a knock out game is a relative term
too since many of you may consider Leander or better yet Zool knock out. *sigh*
>>I've not seen many games that
>>can match those found in the new gaming consoles.
>
>'Cause people don't expect to sell their games for $60 when they code for the
>Amiga. You get what you pay for. Besides, the Amiga is a computer, not
>a one-capability console. It makes more sense to compare its gaming ability
>to that of other computers (though that's not what this thread's about :).
If they come out with Street Fighter two that's even 3/4 th's as good as
the S-NES version for $60, I'd spend $ for it. It's not too much as far as
whether programmers CAN come up with great platform games as much as the
amiga being able to handle it. Give me a REAL Hedgehog competitor and I'll
give you a guy out another $60.... :)
alan
SHUK C YIP
>
>My predictions: Once the new chipset is made available to A500 owners,
>the many coders of EuroDemos will begin to support the new capabilities
>(which, according to rumor, include VGA display&selection), and this will
>result in most other people going ahead and buying the new chipset. Once
>game companies realize this, they'll start supporting it, and porting IBM
>games will be a much simpler task so we'll probably see a lot more of that
>too. Don't forget that many of the more professional EuroDemo coders are
>beginning to code games as well.
>
However, I think the 7.14 MHz 68000 can't handle the speed for game.
Marc J. Brown
>
>>Your point? What can I say? I like both of those aspects of the Amiga
>>experience :). Sound is vital for games, and EuroDemos are great at proving
>>that the Amiga is just as capable as the average console.
> ^^^^^^^
>Being "capable" and the act of actually doing it are again two different
>scenarios.
I agree completely. In fact, I personally believe that the Amiga is a far
more capable system (concerning games) than the Genesis... it's just that
it's not a "dedicated" games system and people aren't too competitive when
it comes to games. If the Japanese were to suddenly start coding for the
Amiga, things would be different ;).
>If the Amiga is soooo capable, then why don't we see knock out
>"Euro-Demo" games? Again, I suppose seeing a knock out game is a relative term
>too since many of you may consider Leander or better yet Zool knock out. *sigh*
Those games struck me as hyped. Actually, I can't be sure about Zool; it may
very well have much more to it by the time the actual game gets here. The
only two knockout games I have seen so far on the Amiga are Turrican II and
James Pond II: Robocod. Both games, btw, blow away the VAST majority of what
I've seen for consoles. Speaking of which, didja know that they took
Turrican II, scaled it down a bit, changed some graphics here & there, called
it "Universal Soldier," and ported it to the SNES? Considering the fact
that the music alone for that game probably took up a full megabyte (overall),
I wonder how the SNES version will sound? :)
>If they come out with Street Fighter two that's even 3/4 th's as good as
>the S-NES version for $60, I'd spend $ for it. It's not too much as far as
>whether programmers CAN come up with great platform games as much as the
>amiga being able to handle it.
Now, you know you've got it reversed :).
>Give me a REAL Hedgehog competitor and I'll
>give you a guy out another $60.... :)
Not yet, but maybe soon. The new chipset is coming soon, and EuroDemo coders
are switching to games... we might just see some really GOOD games soon.
Marc J. Brown
>In article <1992Aug2.0...@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mjb...@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown) writes:
>>
>>beginning to code games as well.
>
>However, I think the 7.14 MHz 68000 can't handle the speed for game.
Ah, but a huge load of extra built-in hardware takes a huge load off the
CPU's back, you realize. Are you trying to suggest that if the Amiga gets
VGA-capable chips it won't be able to handle 256 colors on-screen? Come
on! The hardware necessary to handle that sort of display will no doubt
come with the chipset. Or are you saying that 7.16 Mhz is too slow for
decent games? That's ridiculous, since none of your precious consoles
(except the Neo-Geo) get any faster than that. I think maybe you should
clarify your argument somewhat (and perhaps, while you're at it, find a
better [if unfounded] argument :).
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>>give you a guy out another $60.... :)
>
>Not yet, but maybe soon. The new chipset is coming soon, and EuroDemo coders
>are switching to games... we might just see some really GOOD games soon.
Like Emplant and WB3.0, I'll smile when it's available.
S-NES's are here NOW, and good games are available now...
^^^ ^^^
alan
SHUK C YIP
>>
>>However, I think the 7.14 MHz 68000 can't handle the speed for game.
>
>Ah, but a huge load of extra built-in hardware takes a huge load off the
>CPU's back, you realize. Are you trying to suggest that if the Amiga gets
>VGA-capable chips it won't be able to handle 256 colors on-screen? Come
>on! The hardware necessary to handle that sort of display will no doubt
>come with the chipset. Or are you saying that 7.16 Mhz is too slow for
>decent games? That's ridiculous, since none of your precious consoles
>(except the Neo-Geo) get any faster than that. I think maybe you should
>clarify your argument somewhat (and perhaps, while you're at it, find a
>better [if unfounded] argument :).
>
The new chip set is just good for display picture, not good for game.
The CPU speed of console and Amiga is totally different story. If you
take a good at those 64 colors or HAM games, you will know how slow on a
standard Amiga. 7.14 MHz 68000 simply can't handle it. That is why every
people crys for a faster CPU for Amiga.
Marc J. Brown
>In article <1992Aug2.2...@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mjb...@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown) writes:
>
>The new chip set is just good for display picture, not good for game.
This cannot be taken for granted, as you suggest it should. In fact, it
makes more sense to assume that Commodore will include hardware-related
graphical functions such as scrolling/filling/etc like in the older chipset.
Point in case: Not even IBM-developers are stupid enough to market a VGA
card without at least SOME hardware graphic assistance.
>The CPU speed of console and Amiga is totally different story. If you
>take a good at those 64 colors or HAM games, you will know how slow on a
>standard Amiga. 7.14 MHz 68000 simply can't handle it.
No, it's merely proving that competent game-coders for the Amiga are few
and far between. I'm not the type of person who suggests that 64 colors
on-screen (with hundreds more in complex copperlist background that scrolls)
scrolling at 60 frames-per-second is slow. But I will admit that most
people don't shoot for that type of performance.
>That is why every
>people crys for a faster CPU for Amiga.
Actually, people want faster CPUs because that want a faster computer.
Period. Paying for a faster CPU for the sake of a game is an unjustified
waste and I really don't think most people would go for it.
Marc J. Brown
You force me to yet again point out that the Amiga was never truly intended
to be a big games-only computer... it simply turned out to be far more
capable than all the others. Frankly, I think it's pretty sad that it took
Nintendo/Sega/whoever so long to actually surpass the Amiga's 7-year-old
technology. (BTW, a friend of mine has a severe-beta copy of WB3.0 [don't
think it works] and Emplant ads will be in mags sometime soon).
Gary Bradley
Anyone who thinks Amiga platform games suck obviously hasn't ever
played the following: Parasol Stars, Gods, Robocod, Rodland and the best
platform game ever (even better than arcade platties in my
opinion)...First Samurai. On the other hand, anyone who thinks platform
games suck proabably HAS played the following: Bubble Bobble, New
Zealand Story, Magic Pockets, Black Tiger etc. It's really all about
perspective isn't it? I bet there are SNES platties that lack teeth too
(i.e. suck :)
+---------------------+------------------------------------------+
| Gary Bradley | "You receive a love letter from me and |
| ORACLE Corp, UK | you're f*cked forever!" |
| Edinburgh, SCOTLAND | - Frank Booth ("Blue Velvet") |
+---------------------+------------------------------------------+
| "God damn the censor man" |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>to be a big games-only computer... it simply turned out to be far more
>capable than all the others. Frankly, I think it's pretty sad that it took
Listen, does it really matter if the Amiga was never intended to be a platform
for emulating other computers? Well, it's sure doing a good job right? I think
so. I'm not talking about what the amiga can do over a S-NES... there are
literally countless things it can do over it. All I keep stressing is that
a combination of poor programming and insufficient hardware makes the Amiga
an inferior competitor to arcade games against S-NES's and Genesis's.
>Nintendo/Sega/whoever so long to actually surpass the Amiga's 7-year-old
>technology. (BTW, a friend of mine has a severe-beta copy of WB3.0 [don't
>think it works] and Emplant ads will be in mags sometime soon).
Commodore ALSO took about 6-7 years to come out with the Amiga to surpass IBM's
rampant 8-bit pc's... (it's besides the point to say that Commie didn't even
design the amiga, but anyway) So what's the point? Since the day Commie killed
IBM design with the amiga, IBM's and Mac's are catching up (if not surpassing)
to the Amiga. I won't go on this since this kind of discussion belongs to
CSA.advocacy.
However, advocation of gaming related discussions should remain.
alan
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>
> Anyone who thinks Amiga platform games suck obviously hasn't ever
>played the following: Parasol Stars, Gods, Robocod, Rodland and the best
>platform game ever (even better than arcade platties in my
>opinion)...First Samurai. On the other hand, anyone who thinks platform
Never played Parasol Stars. Gods is ok. Robocod is neat the 1st 5 minutes.
Rodland is good looking but the levels are too short. First Samurai is top
notch. It seems that you've not played Street Fighter II, Super R-Type,
Sonic the Hedgehog, or even Contra III. BTW, did you know that the S-NES even
has a VGA adaptor on the bottom of the unit for hires display? I have an
A2320 on my A2000 and it costed me $212 at student discount!
>games suck proabably HAS played the following: Bubble Bobble, New
>Zealand Story, Magic Pockets, Black Tiger etc. It's really all about
>perspective isn't it? I bet there are SNES platties that lack teeth too
>(i.e. suck :)
Agreed. They all stink (we do have noses:) Have you seen Contra, Street
Fighter, or even Pit Fighter versions on the Amiga? hahahahahahahohohoh
heheheheeheh ohohohohohoh ;-D 'nuff said!
alan
Gary Bradley
> Never played Parasol Stars. Gods is ok. Robocod is neat the 1st 5 minutes.
> Rodland is good looking but the levels are too short. First Samurai is top
> notch. It seems that you've not played Street Fighter II, Super R-Type,
> Sonic the Hedgehog, or even Contra III. BTW, did you know that the
S-NES even
> has a VGA adaptor on the bottom of the unit for hires display? I have an
> A2320 on my A2000 and it costed me $212 at student discount!
Well, I HAVE played Sonic you know. And I thought it was incredibly
over-hyped, as I immediately said when this thread started. Sure, it
looks fantastic and moves very very fast, but it has little playability
to it. Sonic is a very medicre game IMHO: I class it along with Myth
(for the Amiga): it looks so gorgeous you want to have sex with it, but
once you start you realise there's not much there and you feel very let
down. Give me Robocod any day, in my opinion it blows Sonic away for fun
factor (Sonic is WAY too easy too, it must be admitted!!). Before anyone
flames this...how far into Robocod have you gotten?? Alan, you say you
liked it for 5 minutes; does this mean you stopped after that time? If
so, then I can see why you said the above: Robocod takes a while to get
brilliant. If you have only seen the first couple of worlds then you
haven't seen any of its better features (e.g the vehicles you get to use
etc). Okay this could apply to Sonic too, I haven't gotten that far into
it. If it suddenly gets great later than the first few worlds, I'm
sorry,I didn't know.
Onto Rodland. Don't criticise this Amiga game! It is a "port" of an
established arcade game, and if you ask anyone who has played the arcade
original, they will tell you Rodland is a perfect copy except for one
thing... the Amiga version has 10 levels MORE than the arcade original!
I think the fact that the porters added 10 levels to an established
arcde game because they thought that IT was too short is high
recommendation for this excellent game (which I finally managed to
finish just the other week).
Street Fighter II. Okay you've got me on that one, I have never
played it on a console. However, I HAVE played it in the arcades and it
is a big big bore. Has the port to console-land managed to make this an
interesting game then? If so they must have done a hell of a lot of
work. Yes it looks impressive, but it is still a crap game. And I LIKE
fighting games too, okay? SFII is one of the worst I've played (in the
arcade). Even if the Amiga version of this was a perfect clone of the
original arcde version, I wouldn't buy it.
Michael Neylon
>>You force me to yet again point out that the Amiga was never truly intended
>>to be a big games-only computer... it simply turned out to be far more
>>capable than all the others. Frankly, I think it's pretty sad that it took
>
>Listen, does it really matter if the Amiga was never intended to be a platform
>for emulating other computers? Well, it's sure doing a good job right? I think
>so. I'm not talking about what the amiga can do over a S-NES... there are
>literally countless things it can do over it. All I keep stressing is that
>a combination of poor programming and insufficient hardware makes the Amiga
>an inferior competitor to arcade games against S-NES's and Genesis's.
Inferier hardware?? If I remember correctly (no flames please), the SNES and
Sega systems are still ONE chip. The Amigas got 3 chips to do the necessary
work for gaming!! (it also has numerous ports for infinite add-on devices..)
Personally, the only thing hardware defiency on the Amiga is the lack of
a series port control chip (as in IBM's)....at least the Amiga has a serial
port thou :)
>>Nintendo/Sega/whoever so long to actually surpass the Amiga's 7-year-old
>>technology. (BTW, a friend of mine has a severe-beta copy of WB3.0 [don't
>>think it works] and Emplant ads will be in mags sometime soon).
>
>Commodore ALSO took about 6-7 years to come out with the Amiga to surpass IBM's
>rampant 8-bit pc's... (it's besides the point to say that Commie didn't even
>design the amiga, but anyway) So what's the point? Since the day Commie killed
>IBM design with the amiga, IBM's and Mac's are catching up (if not surpassing)
>to the Amiga. I won't go on this since this kind of discussion belongs to
>CSA.advocacy.
>
(as a side note: Ok, so maybe IBM and Mac now offer what the Amiga HAD a
few years ago (multitasking, windowing OS; multimedia capabilities; CD-ROM)
but you can still get anything from Amiga at less than half the prices
that IBM and Mac charge (I read in the paper that other how the new Macs
are only being introduced to keep stuff at the HIGH PRICE range! geez!))
However, back to gaming. There is one effect that happens on ALL game systems:
quickly produced, 'cheap' games. These are the games that may be introduced
on the market, and 2 weeks later you can find them at the bargin bins.
ALL SYSTEMS suffer from this deliema, since producers want many titles
on the market, and rather reduce quality for quantity...
NES, Sega, S-NES, and Amiga all have a good percentage of these games.
However, Since there is (and always will be) more games avail for the Amiga,
one can say that there is more sh*tware than on other systems. But you
gotta look at the relative numbers. IMHO, Amiga has the lowest percentage
of sh*t games than any game platform system.
The other thing you gotta look at is what these people compare against.
Sure, the SNES and Sega are 16 bit systems, and when you see graphics on these
systems for the first time, you WILL be impressed and remember that. If,
after that experience, you glance at an Amiga game in 32 colors, you'll
shrug it off, saying that its not as good as the platform. Similarly, if
you try some of the games on the platforms, and then compare to the
Amiga, you'll say that the games on the Ami were slow compared to
the platform.
However, that is only your opinoin, and is probably not the fact. I had
my Amiga for quite a while, then I saw Sonic for the first time (beyond
promotions). Its a good game, very fast, and very colorful. BUT!!!! the
systems demands from the game DO NOT surpass those of the Amiga!!! Amiga's
can display that may colors, in a parallax scrolling method, it can move sprites
that fast, etc, etc.... The gameplay in Sonic is very similar to
both Turricans, so I see no problem with a port...(see below). Similarly,
any other game on a Sega or SNES is easily portable...
However, you cant get around the sloppy programmers. These are the folks
that ruin many games on the Amiga, due to poor planning and programming.
The Amiga is capable of everything a Sega can do (+ ;) but if the folks
that work on it cant use whats available to them, sh*tty games get released.
Now I know that there are LOTS of good programming teams out there...the
games that follow can be rated as those done PROPERLY...
Turrican, GODS, Pinball Dreams, Dungeon Master/EOB I/II, Populus II,
Lemmings, Awesome, Leander, Out of this World...
(dont flame me on this list either...its IMHO)
Basically, if we could get this programmers to write good games, then the
Amiga might be able to compete with Sega and SNES as a game platform,
although here in the US, Commadore would never allow that...
Michael Neylon aka Masem the Great and Almighty Thermodynamics GOD!
// | Senoir, Chemical Engineering, Univ. of Toledo
\\ // Only the | Summer Intern, NASA Lewis Research Center
\ \X/ AMIGA! | smn...@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov /
--------+ How do YOU spell 'potato'? How 'bout 'lousy'? +----------
"Me and Spike are big Malcolm 10 supporters." - J.S.,P.L.C.L
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>played it on a console. However, I HAVE played it in the arcades and it
>is a big big bore. Has the port to console-land managed to make this an
>interesting game then? If so they must have done a hell of a lot of
>work. Yes it looks impressive, but it is still a crap game. And I LIKE
>fighting games too, okay? SFII is one of the worst I've played (in the
>arcade). Even if the Amiga version of this was a perfect clone of the
>original arcde version, I wouldn't buy it.
Well I don't know about the rest of the world, but in Texas and California
(that I've seen arcades recently) Street Fighter II is the hottest game going.
Here at our university, we have 3 champion editions and 2 regular versions
of it. At the univ of Houston, they have a LARGE screen version of it and
a few regulars. In the univ of Texas, they have a number of large screen
TV's devoted to the game and they have occasional tournaments. Ditto to
California. I haven't even included the number of malls in SW united states.
While mentioning that a large majority of people like this game doesn't mean
that it IS a good game, there seems to be something drawing people to it.
The championship edition costs 50 cents to play and the game may only last half
a minute... but it's smooth and quick. Something the amiga will never be able
to do until new chips or faster accelerators come out.
alan
Paul Trauth
wrote:
RJ> Hello???? 16 meg MEANS 16 megabits not megabytes! 16megabits=2
RJ> MEGABYTES!
RJ> roms are in bits not BYTES, It just sounds cool '16 MEG POWER!!!'
RJ> just my $.02 worth
In the computer world, 1 meg = 1 megabyte.
In the gaming world, 1 meg = 1 megabit = 1/8 megabyte.
I really hate whatever dweeb first started calling megaBITS 'megs'...
caused no end of confusion.
And now SNK (Neo-Geo) is using the even stupider term "mega" for 1
megabyte... "New! with 12 MEGAS of data!"
oooh.
-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
- be zorch, daddi-o --------------- paul (raccoon) trauth ----------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet -> paul_...@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US \\\///\\\///\\\
Usenet -> rex!agwbbs!paul_trauth \\\///\\\///\\\
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"eagles may fly, but a weasel will never get sucked into a jet engine"
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>NES, Sega, S-NES, and Amiga all have a good percentage of these games.
>However, Since there is (and always will be) more games avail for the Amiga,
>one can say that there is more sh*tware than on other systems. But you
>gotta look at the relative numbers. IMHO, Amiga has the lowest percentage
>of sh*t games than any game platform system.
Relative numbers? The amiga has so many games out there it's sad. I think
your statements should be reversed. Just take a look at the previous threads
about mass produced Euro-games for example. Now that's crappy entertainment.
>The other thing you gotta look at is what these people compare against.
>Sure, the SNES and Sega are 16 bit systems, and when you see graphics on these
>systems for the first time, you WILL be impressed and remember that. If,
YES, TRUE
>after that experience, you glance at an Amiga game in 32 colors, you'll
>shrug it off, saying that its not as good as the platform. Similarly, if
YES, TRUE
>you try some of the games on the platforms, and then compare to the
>Amiga, you'll say that the games on the Ami were slow compared to
>the platform.
YES, VERY TRUE
>promotions). Its a good game, very fast, and very colorful. BUT!!!! the
>systems demands from the game DO NOT surpass those of the Amiga!!! Amiga's
>can display that may colors, in a parallax scrolling method, it can move sprites
>that fast, etc, etc....
Yeah, how come we don't see anything like what you've described? Zool for
example is a very good attemp at doing just that. After playing demo shows
just how much better Sonic is. You can't possibly tell me that Zool is faster
or has better graphics.
>The Amiga is capable of everything a Sega can do (+ ;) but if the folks
>that work on it cant use whats available to them, sh*tty games get released.
Well, I guess after 7 years after the Amiga's release no one really knows
what they're doing... *sigh*
>Turrican, GODS, Pinball Dreams, Dungeon Master/EOB I/II, Populus II,
>Lemmings, Awesome, Leander, Out of this World...
>
>(dont flame me on this list either...its IMHO)
Just PopulousII and Lemmings perhaps DM too... the others have equivalents
in their respective areas... its IMHO
>Basically, if we could get this programmers to write good games, then the
>Amiga might be able to compete with Sega and SNES as a game platform,
Basically, if we could get better hardware for these programmers to write
better ANYTHING, then the Amiga might be able to compete with any console
or computer system... again, the above statement probably belongs in
CSA.advocacy... :)
alan
Marc J. Brown
>
>All I keep stressing is that
>a combination of poor programming and insufficient hardware makes the Amiga
>an inferior competitor to arcade games against S-NES's and Genesis's.
You are nearly correct. Since the Genesis and SNES were A) Designed for
one and ONLY one function (games, of course), and B) Fresh, new technology
at the time they came out, theoretically there's no way the Amiga should
be able to compete, even if the Amiga was a dedicated games-machine. I
personally am impressed that the Amiga can hold its own against both
machines. The superior aspects of the Amiga I mentioned before (mostly
having to do with plenty-of-storage-space) will be countered when the
CD-ROMs get here, but at that point we begin to delve in many hundreds of
dollars, for ONLY a games machine.
>>Nintendo/Sega/whoever so long to actually surpass the Amiga's 7-year-old
>>technology. (BTW, a friend of mine has a severe-beta copy of WB3.0 [don't
>>think it works] and Emplant ads will be in mags sometime soon).
>
>Commodore ALSO took about 6-7 years to come out with the Amiga to surpass IBM's
>rampant 8-bit pc's...
Touche :).
(it's besides the point to say that Commie didn't even
>design the amiga, but anyway) So what's the point? Since the day Commie killed
>IBM design with the amiga, IBM's and Mac's are catching up (if not surpassing)
>to the Amiga. I won't go on this since this kind of discussion belongs to
>CSA.advocacy.
Sure they are, as long as your wallet is bottomless. If not, a $299 computer
that outperforms most any IBM and Mac on the market sounds like a bargain :).
>However, advocation of gaming related discussions should remain.
Final announcement: Amiga is inferior to SNES, yet can outperform it in
many areas due to the unlimited storage space available. Amiga is superior
to Genesis in most respects. Amiga does not have Japanese programmers,
so the majority of gaming software available tends to be inferior to true
Japanese gaming software on the consoles.
Marc J. Brown
>
Nothing to get excited over.
>Gods is ok.
Bitmaps Brothers' classic. I liked it a lot, but I won't give it a high
rating for gameplay.
>Robocod is neat the 1st 5 minutes.
I really enjoyed this game! It's so large that it takes me about 5 hours
to get towards the end, and there are lots of secrets and tricks and
original Mario/Sonic-type stuff in it.
>Rodland is good looking but the levels are too short.
I didn't care for this one.
>First Samurai is top notch.
There were many colors on screen, but I thought the gameplay sucked and
it was too slow.
No mention of Turrican II? It's still the best Amiga platform game in
existence. Take a look at Universal Soldier for the SNES and you'll get
an idea (downscaled) of what it's like.
>It seems that you've not played Street Fighter II, Super R-Type,
>Sonic the Hedgehog, or even Contra III.
SF2 is cool! Super R-Type slows down too much. So does Contra3. Sonic
the Hedgehog is a masterpiece of coding trickery.
>Agreed. They all stink (we do have noses:) Have you seen Contra, Street
>Fighter, or even Pit Fighter versions on the Amiga? hahahahahahahohohoh
>heheheheeheh ohohohohohoh ;-D 'nuff said!
We learn to avoid the dogs when we can. Sure the Amiga has its fair share
of awful games... Conversely, would you pay $50 for Home Alone on the SNES?
Richard McGowen
>In article <2AUG1992...@zeus.tamu.edu> cpw...@zeus.tamu.edu (ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924) writes:
>You force me to yet again point out that the Amiga was never truly intended
>to be a big games-only computer... it simply turned out to be far more
>capable than all the others. Frankly, I think it's pretty sad that it took
Sorry, but the above is bullshit. The amiga was designed to be the best
game computer. I once got a chance to glance through an original
design notebook (had Confidential and such stamped all over it), and it
was always talked about in terms of games. It wasn't until Commodore
got ahold of it that the focus changed. It just happened that in
designning the best game machine, the special hardware needed also
happened to make for a great computer. If it wasn't designed to be a
game machine, then why do you think that so much effort was put into
specialized graphics and sound chips? Why do you think there are things
such as dual-PLAYfields, the copper and such. In the notebook, (which
was somewhat of a precursor to the RKMs) all the examples for each
feature were usually given in terms of a game. Battlezone pics and
all.
>Nintendo/Sega/whoever so long to actually surpass the Amiga's 7-year-old
>technology. (BTW, a friend of mine has a severe-beta copy of WB3.0 [don't
>think it works] and Emplant ads will be in mags sometime soon).
>
You are right here. I am only hoping that the new stuff will put the
amiga seven more years ahead rather than only catch up with what is
already here.
George Francis McBay
>You force me to yet again point out that the Amiga was never truly intended
>to be a big games-only computer... it simply turned out to be far more
>capable than all the others. Frankly, I think it's pretty sad that it took
Well to make a small correction, a big-games only computer (or more
correctly, console) is EXACTLY what the Amiga was meant to be in it's early
stages, pre-Atari-bust
Anyways..
alexander aranyosi
>:stuff deleted:
>
>>NES, Sega, S-NES, and Amiga all have a good percentage of these games.
>>However, Since there is (and always will be) more games avail for the Amiga,
>
>>The Amiga is capable of everything a Sega can do (+ ;) but if the folks
>>that work on it cant use whats available to them, sh*tty games get released.
>
>>Basically, if we could get this programmers to write good games, then the
>>Amiga might be able to compete with Sega and SNES as a game platform,
>
Ok. Let's talk about ports here for a moment. Specifically, let's talk
about Psygnosis ports.
First: Shadow of the Beast. Have any of you seen the Genesis port of
this game? Have any of you LISTENED to the Genesis port of this game?
I don't know what that instrument is they're trying to pass off as a
flute, but it sure isn't anything invented by humans. The game is
playable, but only slightly less so than the Amiga version.
Second: The Killing Game Show. The Genesis version of this was called
'Fatal Rewind', and 'Fatal' is the operating word. Again, the music was
atrocious. In this case, though, the music is what made this game great
(try playing it with just sound effects and see what I mean). Check out
the 'Fast Forward' mode on each and decide which one you like better.
Also, the Genesis version has no intro. You have to admit the intro was
almost worth the price of the game in itself. (Note: I'm not trying
to flame EA on either of these--they did the best they could with the
conversions).
Third: Lemmings. I haven't seen the Genesis version of this, so I can't
comment. However, the SNES version also lacks something, i.e. music.
Also, try playing 2-player mode on the SNES. Get all 160 lemmings on the
screen at once and watch how fast your builder goes. Disgusting, isn't it?
This comment applies to all 3 games: Try playing any of these games on
an Amiga using your joystick or mouse in the usual way. Then go to one
of these game machines and try playing it by controlling 4 touchy buttons
with your left hand. You make the call as to which controller you prefer.
Now, here comes the important message. Can you hook your modem up to a
game machine? No. Can you do word processing with it? No. Can you
compose music, with or without MIDI? No. Can you use it to make art?
No. Can you multitask? No. Can you open the thing up and toss in an
accelerator to do all of these things more quickly? Can you open the
thing up at all? No.
The defense rests.
(P.S. SimCity is out for one of these platforms--I dread the thought.)
(P.P.S. I managed to get a SNES open once--there were only two parts
that could possibly be changed without replacing the whole system.
Fortunately one of them was the defective one.)
-AJ
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>game machine? No. Can you do word processing with it? No. Can you
>compose music, with or without MIDI? No. Can you use it to make art?
>No. Can you multitask? No. Can you open the thing up and toss in an
>accelerator to do all of these things more quickly? Can you open the
>thing up at all? No.
>
>The defense rests.
C'mon people... the intent of the original post was not to bring CSA.advocacy
another slab of meat here. We're talking about game related comparisons
between systems (in particular amiga vs S-NES and Genesis). I think the
important message is comp.sys.amiga.GAMES. I say that Amiga platform games
are inferior to those found on the new 16-bit game consoles and so and so
says otherwise. While you're at it, why don't you say that a Vaccum cleaner
is inferior to Microwave because it can't cook your dinner?
alan
Chuck Woo
>>game machine? No. Can you do word processing with it? No. Can you
>>compose music, with or without MIDI? No. Can you use it to make art?
>>No. Can you multitask? No. Can you open the thing up and toss in an
>>accelerator to do all of these things more quickly? Can you open the
>>thing up at all? No.
>
>another slab of meat here. We're talking about game related comparisons
>between systems (in particular amiga vs S-NES and Genesis).
well, okay, speaking strictly of games: can you play a modem game, like
RoboSport, on a console? can you play an old Infocom game? can you make
your flight sim go faster, or be able to handle more world detail? can you
play two games at once? :)
--
---------------------------------------------///
Chuck Woo wch...@ocf.berkeley.edu ///
(bubba buh boo dee do buh boo dee do..) \\\///
-----------------------------------------\XX/
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>RoboSport, on a console?
RoboSport is sooooooo slow by itself anyway without an accelerator.
>can you play an old Infocom game?
Who'd want to... :)
>can you make your flight sim go faster, or be able to handle more world
>detail? can you play two games at once? :)
>
Can you get an acclerator to make a version of Street Fighter II for the
Amiga? Hmm....
alan
Kelvin Leung
>well, okay, speaking strictly of games: can you play a modem game, like
>RoboSport, on a console? can you play an old Infocom game? can you make
>your flight sim go faster, or be able to handle more world detail? can you
>play two games at once? :)
Not sure about the first couple of questions... but I surely cant play
two games at once... ;)
--Kelvin
Chuck Woo
>>RoboSport, on a console?
>
>RoboSport is sooooooo slow by itself anyway without an accelerator.
but you didn't answer my question: can you or can't you?
and would it be faster on the snes?
>>can you play an old Infocom game?
>
>Who'd want to... :)
I would love to find a copy of Zork Zero myself...
>>can you make your flight sim go faster, or be able to handle more world
>>detail? can you play two games at once? :)
>>
>Can you get an acclerator to make a version of Street Fighter II for the
>Amiga? Hmm....
huh? hope you're not being serious, alan... ;) but imho, I think the
accelerator has better things to do :9
(consider yourself noogied)
Courtney Powell
knew that when I did, I'd go ape sh*t. However, my point is (fortunately!)
small! (Actually, it didn't really turn out this way. *SIGH*)
AJ - The version of SIMCITY for the Super NES *IMPROVES* upon the original
(crap) Amiga version of the game. Try playing it: It adds many, MANY features
the Amiga didn't, feautres MUCH improved graphics and sound (although one
song is a bit repetitive). It is not even CLOSE to an atrocity. Harumph.
This whole conversation of Console VS. Amiga seems rather futile, if
you ask me. Why does everyone feel like they have to prove a point? Call me
Ghandi, but I figure let the consolers have their console, let the Amigans
have their Amigas! There are good points on both sides for one or the other,
but let's face it: Saying which one is better is like saying "Which is better,
a boat or a car?" And that was OFFICALLY the worst parallel ever used by man.
My point is, SHUT UP! Consoles are consoles, Amigas are Amigas.
Here's some food de la thought: Maybe consolers feel they have to prove
something because they know Amigas are better, and vice versa? Human nature...
can't live with it, can't live without it!
-Cabel "Reminds me of the SNES vs Genesis wars" Sasser
or
-Cabel "Consoles are good for some things, Amigas for other" Sasser
alternatively,
-Cabel "Mohammed" Sasser
perhaps,
-Cabel "Still waiting for my REAL account to return to the living!" Sasser
FINAL food for thought: People are leaving Amiga programming for
consoles due to less piracy, no? Well, SURPRISE! There is a FLOURISHING pirate
market for the Super Ninendo now! 70% of Amiga "Elite Warez D00D" BBS's have
a SNES/Genesis file section! I wonder if Nintendo Of America knows--
Gary Bradley
> caused no end of confusion.
> And now SNK (Neo-Geo) is using the even stupider term "mega" for 1
> megabyte... "New! with 12 MEGAS of data!"
Hey, maybe the person wasn't a 'dweeb' (good word, never heard that
one before!). Maybe this is all a cunning ploy to try to hide the fact
that consoles will always be inferior to Amigas in terms of volume of
game data. Until the console games get much more expensive (and
bigger??) than the truly ridiculous price they sell at presently, they
are doomed to have little depth.
Gary Bradley
> Well I don't know about the rest of the world, but in Texas and California
> (that I've seen arcades recently) Street Fighter II is the hottest
game going.
> Here at our university, we have 3 champion editions and 2 regular versions
> of it. At the univ of Houston, they have a LARGE screen version of it and
> a few regulars.
I'm not arguing with you on this, the same thing goes on in London
arcades that I know of. I was merely pointing out that *I* don't like it.
Ken Newman
> In response to the statement on the quality of Street Fighter II on the
> SNES: SF II on the SNES is a 16 Megabyte cartridge. Could you imagine what
> could be produced on the Amiga if they used 16 megs?
Oh for god's sake. Not this again. CONSOLE GAMES ARE RATED IN *MEGABITS*,
NOT MEGABYTES!!!!!!!! That's 16 MegaBITS!!! 2 MegaBYTES!!! Make sure you
know what you're talking about next time.
Well I guess this just proves that it was a good idea for console game
companies to rate games with that stupid Megabit rating - it sure fools
a lot of people, making the games sound real impressive. Sigh.
--
"Things should be as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein
k...@isgtec.com [ ...!uunet.ca!isgtec!ken ] Ken Newman
Ken Newman
> Well, the Amiga currently has 4-voice digitized at 51Khz, which is awesome
> (and great quality) (8-bit, of course).
Regardless of whether the hardware can do this, which I highly doubt, there
is no commercial game in the world that has 50 KHz samples in it. I doubt
that mod files use this rate either. It's far too expensive in terms of size,
and is a complete waste anyway, for games 20 KHz is adequate. The standard
Amiga digitized sample rate for games is around 10 KHz, with some I believe
going up to 16 KHz. The sound is heavily equalized beforehand so there is
not much high-frequency noise, which makes it sound better when sampled at
low rates.
> Consequentially, we usually hear sound from
> it that sounds no better than what the Genesis does.
Nice spelling. :-} The Genesis sounds very good at some things, such as
when using synthesized FM voices for music. What it stinks at is digitized
samples, which are as I recall done at around 6 KHz, not much better than
typical phone bandwidth. Speech is almost unintelligible.
Michael Neylon
>In article <1992Aug1.0...@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mjb...@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown) writes:
>> Well, the Amiga currently has 4-voice digitized at 51Khz, which is awesome
>> (and great quality) (8-bit, of course).
>
>Regardless of whether the hardware can do this, which I highly doubt, there
>is no commercial game in the world that has 50 KHz samples in it. I doubt
>that mod files use this rate either. It's far too expensive in terms of size,
>and is a complete waste anyway, for games 20 KHz is adequate. The standard
>Amiga digitized sample rate for games is around 10 KHz, with some I believe
>going up to 16 KHz. The sound is heavily equalized beforehand so there is
>not much high-frequency noise, which makes it sound better when sampled at
>low rates.
>
No one has mentioned the sound difference until now, and this is a definite plus
for the Amiga. Take some of the good Amiga games, Turrican II for example
(no flames). This has one of the best sound tracks that I know. If you
listen to the music, its impossible to here any capping or static in
the samples. Sure, some of those samples may be synthesised sounds, making
them very pure, but the others are not, yet they sound just as good. Using
an Amiga and a digitizer, one can take a 50kHz sample, and then adjust the rate
down to 10-20 kHz range. This ususally produces much better quality sounds
than direct sampling at the intended range. Can this be done on the Sega?
NOPE!
Great Amiga games are always supported by Great Amiga sound. Lemmings,
Turrican, Leander, Awesome, and many more are favorites because the sound
enchances gameplay. Someone mentioned the Killing Game Show: this is
absolutely true in the case of the music.
>> Consequentially, we usually hear sound from
>> it that sounds no better than what the Genesis does.
>
>Nice spelling. :-} The Genesis sounds very good at some things, such as
>when using synthesized FM voices for music. What it stinks at is digitized
>samples, which are as I recall done at around 6 KHz, not much better than
>typical phone bandwidth. Speech is almost unintelligible.
>
True. Through 50+ carts for the NES (not super), there was only one that
did not have the beepy music that platforms are known for, and that
was Solscist (sp?). I've seen both the Sega and the SNES, and the music does
not exceed anything on the NES. However, explosions are always loud, and
therefore there usually isnt any good music in these carts.
Michel Buffa
|> In article <3AUG1992...@zeus.tamu.edu> cpw...@zeus.tamu.edu (ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924) writes:
|> >>Now, here comes the important message. Can you hook your modem up to a
|> >>game machine? No. Can you do word processing with it? No. Can you
|> >>compose music, with or without MIDI? No. Can you use it to make art?
|> >>No. Can you multitask? No. Can you open the thing up and toss in an
|> >>accelerator to do all of these things more quickly? Can you open the
|> >>thing up at all? No.
|> >
|> >C'mon people... the intent of the original post was not to bring CSA.advocacy
|> >another slab of meat here. We're talking about game related comparisons
|> >between systems (in particular amiga vs S-NES and Genesis).
|>
|> well, okay, speaking strictly of games: can you play a modem game, like
|> RoboSport, on a console? can you play an old Infocom game? can you make
|> your flight sim go faster, or be able to handle more world detail? can you
|> play two games at once? :)
Well, first, I bet you don't have a SNES. Secondly how can you enjoy such a
lame game like Robotsport -> slooooooooooow! Uglyyyyyyyyy! I really enjoy my
amiga for playing Monkey Island II, Sensible Soccer, F1 Grand Prix, other
games. But when I want to play a shoot'em up, an arcade race game or a
platform game, I just switch my SNES on. No amiga shoot'em up can compare with
Super Aleste or Super EDF. No platform game can compare with Supermario World
in terms of deepness and playability. No amiga beat'them'up can compare with
Street fighter II, no amiga arcade race game can compare with F-Zero. Of
course, games like lemmings, populous, pure adventure games are not suited for
a console, why would you buy a snes and all its graphic possibilities to play
an infocom game. Be serious! Have you seen PilotWings on the SNES, it's much
better than many amiga flight sims, and it's 1000 times more playable.
If you love arcade games or arcade adventure games, go for a console. Remember
that it's not more expensive than a 68030 or a big HD, you can rent the games
and get a lot of pleasure too.
--
------------------------------------------
Michel Buffa: Projet Robotvis, INRIA, France
Internet: bu...@sardaigne.inria.fr
Surface Mail: Michel BUFFA, INRIA - Sophia Antipolis,
2004, route des Lucioles, 06565 Valbonne Cedex -- FRANCE
Voice phone: (33) 93.65.78.39, Fax: (33) 93 65 77 65
------------------------------------------
Michael Neylon
>Well, first, I bet you don't have a SNES.
No, why would I? I rather spend $300 US dollars on a great Amiga than $200
for a SNES that does < 1/5 the stuff Amiga can
> I really enjoy my
>amiga for playing Monkey Island II, Sensible Soccer, F1 Grand Prix, other
>games. But when I want to play a shoot'em up, an arcade race game or a
>platform game, I just switch my SNES on. No amiga shoot'em up can compare with
>Super Aleste or Super EDF. No platform game can compare with Supermario World
>in terms of deepness and playability. No amiga beat'them'up can compare with
>Street fighter II, no amiga arcade race game can compare with F-Zero. Of
>course, games like lemmings, populous, pure adventure games are not suited for
>a console, why would you buy a snes and all its graphic possibilities to play
>an infocom game. Be serious! Have you seen PilotWings on the SNES, it's much
>better than many amiga flight sims, and it's 1000 times more playable.
>
>If you love arcade games or arcade adventure games, go for a console. Remember
>that it's not more expensive than a 68030 or a big HD, you can rent the games
>and get a lot of pleasure too.
>
can you say *FLAME ONE*?
riiiiggggghhhhtttt, sure. Oh, Amiga has *no* action games...NOT!!!!!!
Lets take a look....
-shoot-em-ups: awesome, lethal excess, silkworm iv
-action: turrican i+II, gods, leander, robocod
-flight sims: Wings, Birds of Prey, F15
-racing sims: Indy 500, Stunt car driver
(and this is only the list of stuff I own, there's still the unbought stuff
yet)..
You might say that these games have poorer graphics. Fine, they dont always
use 64 colors/pallalax/8 channel sound/blitter effect/100+ spirits on the
screen at the same time/ effects, BUT they are PLAYABLE!!!! I have tried
some of the forementioned games on the SNES, and either they are too easy
or too hard!!! If a game looks great, but cant be played, then it aint
worth any investment in it.
And take a look at prices! You can get a stock Amiga 500 for $300 now, and
most games fall between $30 and $40. A SNES (or 16-bit Sega) is about $200,
and carts are about $50-$60 dollars. On Amiga games, you can have tons of
data (Willy Bemish is a 12-disk game!), but on platforms you are limited to
the size of the cart (2 MB at the most).
*FLAME OFF*
at least I get to use a normal joystick with my Amiga...
Elizabeth E Sack
That is because PilotWings is a GAME!!!!!! It can not be compared to any
flightsim, because it is not one.
I've played it...Finished it in about 2 hrs. Very linear and boring
Fighter Duel is a flight simulator, Air Warrior is a flight simulator, Pilot
Wings is a game, Wings is a game.
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>you ask me. Why does everyone feel like they have to prove a point? Call me
>Ghandi, but I figure let the consolers have their console, let the Amigans
>have their Amigas! There are good points on both sides for one or the other,
>but let's face it: Saying which one is better is like saying "Which is better,
>a boat or a car?" And that was OFFICALLY the worst parallel ever used by man.
>
> My point is, SHUT UP! Consoles are consoles, Amigas are Amigas.
Personally, I think that a car is BETTER than a boat since it is more versatile.
This is true in the same way that I think an Amiga is better than a games only
console. I don't think anyone here is saying that they'd rather have a game
console over a computer at all. Some of us are saying that GAMES tend to be
better on xxxxxx systems...
Besides, if everyone followed YOUR rule of thumb of just letting bob use
brand x and joe use brand y, Amiga owners would diminish rapidly. It's because
of our persistance that the amiga is better than other computers that people
are now only beginning to recognize it in the professions.
> Here's some food de la thought: Maybe consolers feel they have to prove
>something because they know Amigas are better, and vice versa? Human nature...
>can't live with it, can't live without it!
Here's some food "de la" thought: Maybe people who argue that other
people shouldn't argue are gods and are content with everything in their
world already... thus they have no need for change.
> FINAL food for thought: People are leaving Amiga programming for
>consoles due to less piracy, no? Well, SURPRISE! There is a FLOURISHING pirate
>market for the Super Ninendo now! 70% of Amiga "Elite Warez D00D" BBS's have
>a SNES/Genesis file section! I wonder if Nintendo Of America knows--
I bet that if I take 10 Amiga owners out of a pack, (let's be wild here) and
say that 2 of them have pirated figure. (yes, a bit low probably... ) How
many people out there actually have the Magic-something drives to play them
on? So far I've only seen the drives for Super Famicoms (Japanese version of
the S-NES) and they are extremely rare and expensive (now). Also, taken that
an average S-NES game costs about $60 each, you've got some $$$ rolling in.
Look buddy, the average S-NES kid is around 12 years old (+ or - 3 years) kid,
not some "Elite Warez DOOD"...
alan
James Hague
* In general, the console systems are stagnating. The same two or three
types of games are being rehashed over and over and over again. Mario
clone platform games, scrolling memorize-the-pattern shooters, fantasy
themed walk-to-the-right beatemups. The graphics get better, yes, but
not the games.
* Remember Jeff Minter's "Darren" theory: most console games are geared
toward little kids with a high tolerance for sameness and repetition.
(Imagine if 90% of all television shows were knockoffs of Star Trek.)
I don't know what other kind of person could play Super Mario Bros. I-IV,
Sonic, Joe & Mac, Kid Chameleon, Castle of Illusion, etc., and not
realize that they are playing the same game in a different wrapper.
* Computer games are more open for innovation. If you want you can spend
six months writing your own game and not have to worry about pleasing
all the raving junior high Darrens. Unfortunately, this is where the
Amiga is blowing it big time. Amiga houses are more concerned with bringing
IBM and Genesis and Nintendo games to the Amiga, rather than writing
original titles. And by original titles I don't mean games which are
attempts to outdo similar games on other systems (which is what this
whole platform game thread seems to be about). Whatever happened to
wonderfully fresh idea like Bill Williams' Mind Walker? The downfall
of the Amiga game market was when it conciously switched from one of
innovation to one of "me too."
--
James Hague
exu...@exu.ericsson.se
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>bigger??) than the truly ridiculous price they sell at presently, they
>are doomed to have little depth.
Yup the prices are truly ridiculous. Neo-Geo game cartridges costs around
$200 sometimes. Ridiculous or not, they're selling quickly. I just heard that
when Street Fighter II was released for the S-NES/Famicom in California,
there were about 200 people waiting outside some store to buy it. The crate
of games sold out in about 35 minutes... If I had a product someone wants,
I'd raise the price as high as they're willing to pay it. (Economics 101)
alan
Joshua Ling
>
>No, why would I? I rather spend $300 US dollars on a great Amiga than $200
>for a SNES that does < 1/5 the stuff Amiga can
I'm not entering this debate. i'm just butting in to say that the SNES
has been repriced at $100. As has the Genesis....
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>>that it's not more expensive than a 68030 or a big HD, you can rent the games
>>and get a lot of pleasure too.
>>
>can you say *FLAME ONE*?
>
>riiiiggggghhhhtttt, sure. Oh, Amiga has *no* action games...NOT!!!!!!
That should be changed to: No *good* action games... (relative to S-NES's)
>Lets take a look....
>-shoot-em-ups: awesome, lethal excess, silkworm iv
>-action: turrican i+II, gods, leander, robocod
>-flight sims: Wings, Birds of Prey, F15
>-racing sims: Indy 500, Stunt car driver
Brother, let's not go through this again... The original poster was right.
Not only do you not have a S-NES, you've probably never sat down and played
one. I've played all of the above except lethal excess and Birds of Prey.
They are nothing to compare to... sure they have better sound effects, but
if I wanted really good music, I'll flip on my CD player... :)
>You might say that these games have poorer graphics. Fine, they dont always
YES, TRUE...
>use 64 colors/pallalax/8 channel sound/blitter effect/100+ spirits on the
>screen at the same time/ effects, BUT they are PLAYABLE!!!! I have tried
Being able to be played and being wanted to be played are slightly different.
>some of the forementioned games on the SNES, and either they are too easy
>or too hard!!! If a game looks great, but cant be played, then it aint
>worth any investment in it.
>
>And take a look at prices! You can get a stock Amiga 500 for $300 now, and
>most games fall between $30 and $40. A SNES (or 16-bit Sega) is about $200,
Man, get your facts straight. S-NES's and Genesis's are equally priced at
$149 for a system, 2 controllers and a game or for *** $99 *** for the console
and a controller so that you can buy your own game. Take your $300 A500 and
see what you'll have to add to play some games... a joystick and perhaps
the $40 512k ram expansion to play the neato "playable" games. Not only that,
but only a handful of games uses optional second-button joysticks like
Leander and R-Type. Sure the A500 has a keyboard in place of those buttons,
but who'd want to reach for the keyboard in the middle of an action game?
alan
Paul Trauth
wrote:
MJ> to Genesis in most respects. Amiga does not have Japanese
MJ> programmers,
MJ> so the majority of gaming software available tends to be inferior to
MJ> true
MJ> Japanese gaming software on the consoles.
I consider this an *advantage* of the Amy. Then again, i've never really
been a fan of the vast majority of the japanese games out there... gimme a
good original design any day! Ah, if only Atari (coin-op) did good arcade
ports... I wanna play Off The Wall...
-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
- be zorch, daddi-o --------------- paul (raccoon) trauth ----------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet -> paul_...@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US \\\///\\\///\\\
Usenet -> rex!agwbbs!paul_trauth \\\///\\\///\\\
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"eagles may fly, but a weasel will never get sucked into a jet engine"
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
> types of games are being rehashed over and over and over again. Mario
> clone platform games, scrolling memorize-the-pattern shooters, fantasy
> themed walk-to-the-right beatemups. The graphics get better, yes, but
> not the games.
>* Remember Jeff Minter's "Darren" theory: most console games are geared
> toward little kids with a high tolerance for sameness and repetition.
> (Imagine if 90% of all television shows were knockoffs of Star Trek.)
> I don't know what other kind of person could play Super Mario Bros. I-IV,
> Sonic, Joe & Mac, Kid Chameleon, Castle of Illusion, etc., and not
> realize that they are playing the same game in a different wrapper.
Okay, I suppose that A-10, F-19, and all such simulators are all clones of the
same game. What about all text adventures? Yup all the same. Dungeon games
like Dungeon Masters or Black Crypt. There's such a thing as a "genre".
>* Computer games are more open for innovation. If you want you can spend
> wonderfully fresh idea like Bill Williams' Mind Walker? The downfall
> of the Amiga game market was when it conciously switched from one of
> innovation to one of "me too."
Very sad but true...
alan
George L Skank
>>
>> Anyone who thinks Amiga platform games suck obviously hasn't ever
>>played the following: Parasol Stars, Gods, Robocod, Rodland and the best
>>platform game ever (even better than arcade platties in my
>>opinion)...First Samurai. On the other hand, anyone who thinks platform
>
>Never played Parasol Stars. Gods is ok. Robocod is neat the 1st 5 minutes.
>Rodland is good looking but the levels are too short. First Samurai is top
>notch. It seems that you've not played Street Fighter II, Super R-Type,
>Sonic the Hedgehog, or even Contra III. BTW, did you know that the S-NES even
>has a VGA adaptor on the bottom of the unit for hires display? I have an
>A2320 on my A2000 and it costed me $212 at student discount!
>
>>games suck proabably HAS played the following: Bubble Bobble, New
>>Zealand Story, Magic Pockets, Black Tiger etc. It's really all about
>>perspective isn't it? I bet there are SNES platties that lack teeth too
>>(i.e. suck :)
>
>Agreed. They all stink (we do have noses:) Have you seen Contra, Street
>Fighter, or even Pit Fighter versions on the Amiga? hahahahahahahohohoh
>heheheheeheh ohohohohohoh ;-D 'nuff said!
>
I think (for a lot of the games you've mentioned) it's often a case
that the port from one platform to another wasn't done well, rather than it
being a case where a platform can't handle the game. There's *no reason*
that the above games can't run on an Amiga, but the people porting the games
have no experience porting software to an Amiga. The reverse is true also,
of course.
--George
--
George L. Skank |"Religion and Politics will both ///
Graduate, Electrical Engineering| exist in greater purity the less ///
Iowa State University, Ames, IA | they are mixed together" \\\ ///
sk...@iastate.edu | --Thomas Paine \\X//
James Hague
>
>Okay, I suppose that A-10, F-19, and all such simulators are all clones of the
>same game. What about all text adventures? Yup all the same. Dungeon games
>like Dungeon Masters or Black Crypt. There's such a thing as a "genre".
Yes, but there is a difference between a genre and blatant moronic cloning.
TV sitcoms form genre. But all sitcoms about a family that looks and acts
just like the one on the Cosby Show are not. The platform games on consoles
(and the Amiga sadly) shamelessly borrow entire designs from each other.
Hmmm...lookit how both Robocod and Mario jump up and hit blocks with their
head and objects magically appear and move around. Joe & Mac can do the
Sonic super-spin attack, etc. For the most part these games do not
have their own spark, they feel like attempts to get in on the profits
of another game.
(And IMO most platform games don't have solid foundations. The idea
seems to be "make lots of big levels and give the player lots to do
so he doesn't realize that we couldn't come up with a solid idea for
a game.")
Whatever your opinion, I'm sure you'll agree what when one "genre"
subsumes all others, it is not a Good Thing.
--
James Hague
exu...@exu.ericsson.se
George L Skank
>
> Anyone who thinks Amiga platform games suck obviously hasn't ever
>played the following: Parasol Stars, Gods, Robocod, Rodland and the best
>platform game ever (even better than arcade platties in my
>opinion)...First Samurai. On the other hand, anyone who thinks platform
>Zealand Story, Magic Pockets, Black Tiger etc. It's really all about
>perspective isn't it? I bet there are SNES platties that lack teeth too
>(i.e. suck :)
>
>| Gary Bradley | "You receive a love letter from me and |
>| ORACLE Corp, UK | you're f*cked forever!" |
>| Edinburgh, SCOTLAND | - Frank Booth ("Blue Velvet") |
>+---------------------+------------------------------------------+
My little brother has an SNES. He and his friend swap game
cartriges all the time. His friend was over here yesterday and my brother
decided to show him Rise of the Dragon. His friend was *blown away*!! He
*really* liked it! AND HE WISHED THERE WAS A GAME LIKE IT FOR THE SNES.
ROTD, BOCF, DM, etc. are all examples of games that are (for the most part)
much larger than any game currently available for the SNES. And hey, I
like some SNES games: Street Fighter II, Smash TV, and Castlevania IV.
There's *no way* I'd ever trade my Amiga for an SNES, because I don't use
it for just games. Just my 0.02.
/X.BiSON
>AJ - The version of SIMCITY for the Super NES *IMPROVES* upon the original
>(crap) Amiga version of the game. Try playing it: It adds many, MANY features
>the Amiga didn't, feautres MUCH improved graphics and sound (although one
>song is a bit repetitive). It is not even CLOSE to an atrocity. Harumph.
>
and can be run on any amiga with a HD. It was even cracked to use the HD
instead of the ram-card.
/X\.BiSON
/X.BiSON
You forget that most computer games that break new ground and are inovative
make it to the SNES/Genesis anyways.
/X\.BiSON
.
Marc J. Brown
>In article <1992Aug1.0...@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mjb...@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown) writes:
>> Well, the Amiga currently has 4-voice digitized at 51Khz, which is awesome
>> (and great quality) (8-bit, of course).
>
>Regardless of whether the hardware can do this, which I highly doubt, there
>is no commercial game in the world that has 50 KHz samples in it. I doubt
>that mod files use this rate either. It's far too expensive in terms of size,
>and is a complete waste anyway, for games 20 KHz is adequate.
The point is that you have the option of playing back the sample at a much
higher rate than it was sampled. I don't consider this a waste. Also,
sometimes it's desirable to sample at very high frequencies just for the
sake of quality. 20 Khz really isn't that good (and also consider that you
may wish to playback at LOWER frequencies, which would prove disastrous if
oyu had sampled at 10 Khz, for instance).
>> Consequentially, we usually hear sound from
>> it that sounds no better than what the Genesis does.
>
>Nice spelling. :-}
It was late :).
>The Genesis sounds very good at some things, such as
>when using synthesized FM voices for music.
It's pretty much case-sensitive; any sound with a complex (changing)
wavelength would be hard/impossible to create with synth, but they do try
(so we get these awful, synthy percussion sounds).
>What it stinks at is digitized
>samples, which are as I recall done at around 6 KHz, not much better than
>typical phone bandwidth. Speech is almost unintelligible.
Yeah. Nintendo knew what they were doing when they decided to go for
digitized sound; nothing beats it :).
_ __ ___ ____ _____ _____________ __ _ ___ ___ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
///_//__//___//____//_______ _ \\// \\ // \V/ )/ )/ )/ )/ )/ ) // // //
mjb...@lonestar.utsa.edu / // /) )/ _ \V/ _ // (/ // _ // (/ / \X/ \X/ \X/
"You fat, bloated BAKA!!" (_/(_/(_/(_/ \_)\_)\_)\___/(_/ \_)\___/ of Megawatts
Gregory G Greene
> Amiga is blowing it big time. Amiga houses are more concerned with bringing
> IBM and Genesis and Nintendo games to the Amiga, rather than writing
> original titles. And by original titles I don't mean games which are
> attempts to outdo similar games on other systems (which is what this
> whole platform game thread seems to be about). Whatever happened to
> wonderfully fresh idea like Bill Williams' Mind Walker? The downfall
> of the Amiga game market was when it conciously switched from one of
> innovation to one of "me too."
You can't blame the game market for developing for the IBM PC, Genesis,
or SNES, and not the Amiga. They go where the most money can be made.
G.Greene
>
>--
>James Hague
>exu...@exu.ericsson.se
>
Michel Buffa
|> In article <26...@sophia.inria.fr>, bu...@sophia.inria.fr writes...
|> >Well, first, I bet you don't have a SNES.
|>
|> No, why would I? I rather spend $300 US dollars on a great Amiga than $200
|> for a SNES that does < 1/5 the stuff Amiga can
How can you talk about a thing you don't have and use dayly ? Maybe you know
SNES games better than me ? I doubt! This is a real stupid attitude! I own
both an amiga and a SNES so I CAN talk about it better rthan you right! And my
amiga is a 2000 with 120 megs HD, a GVP 68030 25Mhz, 6 megs of ram. Ok. I love
my amiga, I don't want to flame it. I'm on your side!
|> can you say *FLAME ONE*?
|>
|> riiiiggggghhhhtttt, sure. Oh, Amiga has *no* action games...NOT!!!!!!
|>
|> Lets take a look....
|> -shoot-em-ups: awesome, lethal excess, silkworm iv
|> -action: turrican i+II, gods, leander, robocod
|> -flight sims: Wings, Birds of Prey, F15
|> -racing sims: Indy 500, Stunt car driver
|>
|> (and this is only the list of stuff I own, there's still the unbought stuff
|> yet)..
Ok, I haven't included my previous message, but I never said the amiga hasn't
got any action game, but all SNES + amiga owners will agree: Super Aleste or
Super EDF are much better in all domains (in particular playability) than
awesome, lethal excess, and silkworm IV. Silkworm IV is a model in terms of
playability on the amiga but it's not as gorgeous as Super Aleste on the SNES
which has in my opinion a better playability too.
Castlevania IV is much better than gods + leander. Turrivan II is too big and
has no save game nor password. For me it ruins all its interest. Robocod is a
good game but a bit boring. Zelda3, Castlevania IV are much better.
Flight sims: the amiga is much much better than any console. No problem.
Console are not good for flight sims and adventure games.
Racing sims: F-ZERO is one of the best arcade race game ever made. Indy 500,
F1 GP are race simulators. They are really good. As I said in my previous
message, consoles are not good for simulation games. But compare the arcade
race games on the amiga: Lotus 1 and 2, Crazy cars III and Vroom are the only
good ones on the amiga. Lotus 1 has been ported on the snes and it is as good
as on the amiga (it's an old game on the snes called 'top racer' and do not
use all the power of the console), crazy cars III has no equivalent (hey! I
love that game, it makes the amiga maybe the best platform for race games),
but F-Zero has no equivalent too!!!!! That's why I have both an amiga and a
SNES!
|> You might say that these games have poorer graphics. Fine, they dont always
|> use 64 colors/pallalax/8 channel sound/blitter effect/100+ spirits on the
|> screen at the same time/ effects, BUT they are PLAYABLE!!!!
Beware: if you want to say that amiga games are in general more playable than
console games, you lost the battle. All big names on console games are a joy
to play. The playability of Konami, Nintendo, Jaleco,.... games is much much
better than the majority of games on the amiga.
I have tried
|> some of the forementioned games on the SNES, and either they are too easy
|> or too hard!!! If a game looks great, but cant be played, then it aint
|> worth any investment in it.
You have tried. Have you really played them ?
|> And take a look at prices! You can get a stock Amiga 500 for $300 now, and
|> most games fall between $30 and $40. A SNES (or 16-bit Sega) is about $200,
|> and carts are about $50-$60 dollars. On Amiga games, you can have tons of
|> data (Willy Bemish is a 12-disk game!), but on platforms you are limited to
|> the size of the cart (2 MB at the most).
2MB for the moment. Bigger games will certainly appear. Don't forget that if
you really want to playthese huge games you need a HD and more than 1 meg of
memory (HD takes some memory so you can't use all your 1 meg), so the prices
are so-so. BUT! BUT! BUT! I prefer paying 100$ for Street Fighter II, a game
that we play dayly at home for entire nights without getting bored, because
it's so well done, so playable, is so polished, is so .... perfect (the same
as in the arcade) than 40$ for an amiga game that sucks. And believe me, only
a very few amiga games gave me as much fun as Street Fighter II.
Of course I LOVE arcade games. Maybe you can't understand...
|> *FLAME OFF*
|>
|> at least I get to use a normal joystick with my Amiga...
|>
|>
|> Michael Neylon aka Masem the Great and Almighty Thermodynamics GOD!
|> // | Senoir, Chemical Engineering, Univ. of Toledo
|> \\ // Only the | Summer Intern, NASA Lewis Research Center
|> \ \X/ AMIGA! | smn...@ariel.lerc.nasa.gov /
|> --------+ How do YOU spell 'potato'? How 'bout 'lousy'? +----------
|> "Me and Spike are big Malcolm 10 supporters." - J.S.,P.L.C.L
--
Michael Richards
Dipping my toe into the debate here, I can't see why Amiga platform
games should be worse than the Nintendo or Sega. Platform games are not the
most difficult to program, the games live or die on their playability. Here,
it seems that Nintendo and Sega may have an advantage. But then, if I had tied
my fortunes to an Italian plumber or a blue hedgehog I would make sure that
any game released with that character was as good as possible.
Its now getting on for two years since Sonic the Hedgehog was released
on the MegaDrive. In that time hundreds of platform games have come out for
the machine - but not one is in the same league. I get the impression that
Sonic was an attempt by Sega to show just what the Megadrive is capable of,
perhaps it pushes the machine to its limits, and games on the Megadrive can't
evolve any further?
As for the Amiga demo of Sonic. Very nice, very smooth and very illegal
but it gave me a laugh. I wouldn't say that this demo was proof that the Amiga
can/can't do Sonic the Hedgehog. After all, as the coders admit this is their
first demo - its unlikely that its the best code ever written on the Amiga.
Also, there are only a few characters on screen at the same time, and most
importantly everything is preprogrammed, lots of sprites and frantic joystick
waggling would tell if the Amiga can do it.
For all those people claiming that the Amiga cannot produce a good
platform game. Please read the following review of FIRE AND ICE (shameless
advertising), not as fast as STH maybe, but much more of a challenge.
Mike.
--
* Mike Richards is always willing to spend his time discussing arcane topics *
* and would much prefer to get mail from obscure places at strange hours than *
* work. So go on!!!! What are you waiting for? He's expecting your mail at *
* the following address. ---------> m...@aber.ac.uk <--------- Call now !!! *
Clayton Miner
Case in point. Everything I do on my 1000 works just fine and I am satisfied
with older programmes like PageSetter despite having looked at ProPage and
PAgeStream countless times with people who own them. Now even *if* I could
find a good accelerator that would work with my 1000 I doubt that I would buy
it simply because I don't *need* it.
Skeksis
George Francis McBay
>levels are a pain because you can't breathe underwater, you have to find
>air bubbles. Also some of the "boss" scenes are murder. Sonic ain't perfect,
>but easy it is not.
I hate to disagree with you, but I agree with the original poster.
The underwater level of Sonic was pretty hard, but that's the ONLY one that was
... And there were plenty of Air Bubbles around....Besides this fact, I used to
have a slew of extra Sonics by this level because of all the ones that can
be had on the first couple levels... And another thing, the Bosses in Sonic
are the easiest "end of level" bosses I've seen in a while, they seem
hard at first but if you just watch them for a while and learn the patterns,
they are easy (Side note: the LAST boss (Well they are ALL Robotnik, but..)
was the easiest of all, how disappointing!)
Gary Bradley
> Not only that,
> but only a handful of games uses optional second-button joysticks like
> Leander and R-Type. Sure the A500 has a keyboard in place of those buttons,
> but who'd want to reach for the keyboard in the middle of an action game?
Well personally I'd rather reach for absolutely ANYTHING during an
action game except for a console-style cross-shaped
"I'll-never-get-anywhere-with-this" type pad thing. I have found that it
is no fun at all to play with those pad things, no matter how wonderful
your Sonic the Hedgehog console game is.
And another thing, why is it when console people are laughing at us
poor Amiga owners and gloating about how much better their console
action games are, we only ever hear the same half dozen games mentioned?
Yet when Amiga owners defend their beloved cream-coloured friend we hear
a wealth of games mentioned, covering a whole spectrum of game
categories. I know what side of the fence I sit on. So there.
P.S. Sonic the Hedgehod is crap, why won't console players admit this???
+---------------------+------------------------------------------+
| Gary Bradley | "You receive a love letter from me and |
| ORACLE Corp, UK | you're f*cked forever!" |
| Edinburgh, SCOTLAND | - Frank Booth ("Blue Velvet") |
+---------------------+------------------------------------------+
James Hague
>
> Its now getting on for two years since Sonic the Hedgehog was released
>on the MegaDrive. In that time hundreds of platform games have come out for
>the machine - but not one is in the same league. I get the impression that
>Sonic was an attempt by Sega to show just what the Megadrive is capable of,
>perhaps it pushes the machine to its limits, and games on the Megadrive can't
>evolve any further?
Good point, though I think it has only been a little over a year. Sonic
looks like THE game that Sega pumped tons of money into. They got the
best 68000 programmers, the best artists, etc. It was obviously a
tremendous effort to get that game out the door. But as Michael says,
nothing has come even close since then (we'll see about Sonic II, which
is slated for a fall release), and Sega has released some really bad
platform games in the past year (Fantasia, for example).
--
James Hague
exu...@exu.ericsson.se
Ken Newman
> ......
> etc). Okay this could apply to Sonic too, I haven't gotten that far into
> it. If it suddenly gets great later than the first few worlds, I'm
> sorry,I didn't know.
I've seen several people say this, who have only seen one or two worlds
in Sonic. You're wrong - Sonic gets very difficult later on. The difficulty
curve is quite steep, it is very easy in the beginning, but the underwater
levels are a pain because you can't breathe underwater, you have to find
air bubbles. Also some of the "boss" scenes are murder. Sonic ain't perfect,
but easy it is not.
--
George Francis McBay
>is slated for a fall release), and Sega has released some really bad
>platform games in the past year (Fantasia, for example).
While Fantasia had Sega's 'seal of approval' it wasn't really a Sega
game, it was programmed by a company that also does Amiga games <I can't
remember who, now, though, US Gold maybe?> However don't let this deter anyone
from trying the original Mickey Mouse: Castle of Illusion..Sure it doesn't
offer many new ideas to gaming, but it's one of the most fun platform games
I've ever played, and the graphics are incredibly well done.
For people who are bitching about Amiga platform games, try Ocean's
Addams Family, it's controls are nearly a direct ripoff from Mickey Mouse
(button to jump, hold it when bouncing off heads to go even higher) and
it steals lots of ideas from Mario + Sonic but it integrates parts of these
games very well and has many diverse levels...One of the best platform games
I've seen..
James Hague
>
>>curve is quite steep, it is very easy in the beginning, but the underwater
>>levels are a pain because you can't breathe underwater, you have to find
>>air bubbles. Also some of the "boss" scenes are murder. Sonic ain't perfect,
>>but easy it is not.
>
> I hate to disagree with you, but I agree with the original poster.
I'll disagree as well. Everyone I know who has gotten into Sonic has
completed the game, without using any "cheats," in two or three days
(a week tops). Everything is a pattern. And while the levels are large
and appear to be complex, you only have to face one obstacle at a time.
The underwater levels are the hardest--I got through one of them on the
first try and the other two took several attempts. Then I got through
the four subsequent levels the first time I ever reached them (and I
wouldn't classify myself as a master game player).
I think there is a new definition of difficulty with respect to video
games. It used to be that the first few days playing a game were
simply to get the feel of it and there was a very good chance that
six months down the road there would still be some challenge. Now
people get all upset if they can't trounce a game the day of purchase.
--
James Hague
exu...@exu.ericsson.se
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>are the easiest "end of level" bosses I've seen in a while, they seem
>hard at first but if you just watch them for a while and learn the patterns,
>they are easy (Side note: the LAST boss (Well they are ALL Robotnik, but..)
>was the easiest of all, how disappointing!)
Isn't that just about the attribute of most games? Watching and learning
what the computer opponent's algorithm is and then countering it? Geez, if
it was that simple, I'd be up in the ranks in the US National Street Fighter II
tournament and claim my prize... *sheesch*
alan
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>poor Amiga owners and gloating about how much better their console
>action games are, we only ever hear the same half dozen games mentioned?
>Yet when Amiga owners defend their beloved cream-coloured friend we hear
>a wealth of games mentioned, covering a whole spectrum of game
>categories. I know what side of the fence I sit on. So there.
You know, the Amiga has thousands upon thousands of games released whereas the
S-NES's and Genesis's have only a few hundreds. That's one reason. This IS
comp.sys.AMIGA.games not blah.blah.16bit.consoles... another reason. The amiga
platform-style games have a huge volume for crap quality ratio. I used to be
to keep up with all the latest action hits from Europe and RPG/sim's from the
states but now it seems that the only games I'd like to play on my Amiga are
RPG's and some strategics like Populous II and Black Crypt. Even that, I've not
played them for over a month now.
"a wealth of games"? I'm not going to play all of them pal... just give me a
handful of good ones. My amiga has left me going to the arcades and renting
S-NES games...
alan
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>Addams Family, it's controls are nearly a direct ripoff from Mickey Mouse
>(button to jump, hold it when bouncing off heads to go even higher) and
>it steals lots of ideas from Mario + Sonic but it integrates parts of these
>games very well and has many diverse levels...One of the best platform games
>I've seen..
Man, Addams Family bites! It is soooo bad. It's slow, sluggish, and doesn't
even give the player any good animations to look at during the awful torture.
Robocod II beats it anyday.
alan
Kriston J. Rehberg
The problem with Genesis/SNES/TGFX sound is that there isn't much room
to put the sound in! Sound doesn't compress even remotely as well as
graphics do!
Kris
--
Kriston J. Rehberg, POD Consultant con...@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu
Binghamton University Computing Services CON...@BINGVAXA.BITNet
#include <stddisclaimer.h> "Labra lege: Hackito ergo sum"
"Your lack of common decency reminds me of a computer" - emacs M-x flame
Jon Ballard
>
>rampant 8-bit pc's... (it's besides the point to say that Commie didn't even
>design the amiga, but anyway) So what's the point? Since the day Commie killed
>IBM design with the amiga, IBM's and Mac's are catching up (if not surpassing)
>to the Amiga. I won't go on this since this kind of discussion belongs to
>CSA.advocacy.
>
>However, advocation of gaming related discussions should remain.
>
>alan
>
But isn't this good? It makes the computer idustry expand in leaps and
bounds instead of sitting on their butts making money.
--
Jonathan Ballard UNIX TREE BBS asmo...@tree.UUCP
Ralph Barbagallo
>>>Better than Amiga flight sims. And it is 1000 times more playable.
>
>That is because PilotWings is a GAME!!!!!! It can not be compared to any
>flightsim, because it is not one.
>
>I've played it...Finished it in about 2 hrs. Very linear and boring
>
>Fighter Duel is a flight simulator, Air Warrior is a flight simulator, Pilot
>Wings is a game, Wings is a game.
>
Yes, I must agree.. Pilotwings is a GAME not a sim. And it's pretty boring.
When I bought it a year ago, I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread,
but now, it just gathers dust (after beating it, there is no point in playing).
_____________________________________________________________________
( ( )
) Ralph A. Barbagallo III ) Co-Editor of (
( ----- ( M I N D S T O R M )
) nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us ) (
( ( THE Newsletter for high-end gamers! )
---------------------------------------------------------------------
MindStorm-9474 Fallson Ct., Blue Ash, OH 45242 (ed. Aaron Buckner)
Glenn Doiron
>
>
> In response to the statement on the quality of Street Fighter II on the
>SNES: SF II on the SNES is a 16 Megabyte cartridge.
Wrong. It's 16 megaBITs. The equivalent of 2 1/2 disks on the Amiga.
(less if they use data compression).
>Could you imagine what
>could be produced on the Amiga if they used 16 megs? Just think they could
>have used HAM and had digitized sound. This, IMO, would make SF II better than
>the arcade version. Also, the SNES version only supports playing 8 of the
>characters. They are a few more than that, 16 I believe, on the arcade.
> If you think the SNES is good, fine, but just realize how much memory they
>had to use in order to make that game in the first place. I think Monkey
>Island on the Amiga is much more advanced because of what they squeezed into
>slightly less than 4 megabytes... Just my $.02 worth.
>
>
> Kenneth Churchill
Best games I've ever played on my consoles has to be
1. Crossed Swords (55 megabit)
2. Magician Lord (46 megabit)
3. Alpha Mission II (47 megabit)
4. Sonic the Hedgehog (8 megabit)
5. Thunder Force III (8 megabit)
(BTW I do have an SNES but SF2 would be a 7 or 8 on the list)
WRT the capabilities of the new machines, neither Commodore, nor IBM,
nor Apple or Atari will ever catch up to the hardware in the newest
consoles.
And it will be impossible to do SF2 on the Amiga in anything remotely
close to the version on the SNES, which itself was a stripped down version
of the arcades.
Remember that it's the quality of the game, not the size, that counts.
You will find games on all platforms that are untouched by other systems,
so if all you want to do is play games, get a console by all means...
Glenn Doiron
--
Amiga UUCP+
Origin: uunet!starpt!doiron (Organization:68K Software Development)
BIX: gdoiron
** Not enough memory to perform requested operation. Add 4 megs and retry.
Chuck Woo
>>The problem with Genesis/SNES/TGFX sound is that there isn't much room
>>to put the sound in! Sound doesn't compress even remotely as well as
>>graphics do!
>
>graphics and animation anyday... since they're what make the game enjoyable
>to play.
alan, didn't you mail me a message saying how important sound was to you?
:)
anyway, what makes a game _really_ enjoyable is the total experience: sound,
_music_, graphics, design, speed and playability, etc etc.
--
---------------------------------------------///
Chuck Woo wch...@ocf.berkeley.edu ///
(bubba buh boo dee do buh boo dee do..) \\\///
-----------------------------------------\XX/
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>to put the sound in! Sound doesn't compress even remotely as well as
>graphics do!
>
>Kris
What is the big deal with sound? I'd rather have sorry sound than sorry
ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924
>>graphics and animation anyday... since they're what make the game enjoyable
>>to play.
>
>alan, didn't you mail me a message saying how important sound was to you?
>:)
>anyway, what makes a game _really_ enjoyable is the total experience: sound,
>_music_, graphics, design, speed and playability, etc etc.
Nope, wasn't me man. If you'd go back a few responses, I said that if I wanted
life like digital sound, I'd play my CD players or run through my sound files
on my amiga. In you list, it seems that sound and music should be the same
while you didn't include animation. C'mon, IBM games look *really* good...
good that is until you watch them move. :) See how small a part the sound f/x
makes up a complete game? BTW, I can't wait till Nintendo gets the VGA adaptor
out on the market like the ones they have on display... do that on your Amiga
without a flicker fixer. wow... what an advance game machine, it flickers when
you play and then slows down to boot (eg SimAnt, Robosport...etc)
alan
Marc J. Brown
>
>BTW, I can't wait till Nintendo gets the VGA adaptor
>out on the market like the ones they have on display... do that on your Amiga
>without a flicker fixer. wow... what an advance game machine, it flickers when
>you play and then slows down to boot (eg SimAnt, Robosport...etc)
What possesses you to make constant attempts at slamming the Amiga to the
ground? It serves no useful purpose, but it DOES seem to clog .amiga.games
with hostile attack-and-defend messages, making it tedious to wade through
the newsgroup. Nobody here appreciates your opinions when they're so
obviously aimed at getting us riled. Accept the Amiga for what it has
become: A computer. The consoles (SNES and Neo*Geo, anyways) are superior...
for GAMES. If most serious software developers for the Amiga felt that it
was a game machine, we'd either see the type of games you claim are
impossible, or we'd have very few serious software developers. Your last
statement above makes it obvious to me (and hopefully most other people,
but this message is just in case) that you're the type of individual who
enjoys arguing. After I realized this, I tried to avoid correcting some
of your more idiotic suggestions/opinions, but I hadn't counted on the
fact that everyone else probably wouldn't do the same. My suggestion to
you is to set your A2000 (?) aside, let it collect dust, and sink your
cash into your consoles. It would do us ALL a favor. The Amiga community
does not need or appreciate people like you (speaking for myself, actually).
Everyone else reading this, please try to avoid pampering this person's
joy of debating, if you can :).
BTW... Don't mail me, as I doubt I will read it, sorry.
_ __ ___ ____ _____ _____________ __ _ ___ ___ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
///_//__//___//____//_______ _ \\// \\ // \V/ )/ )/ )/ )/ )/ ) // // //
mjb...@lonestar.utsa.edu / // /) )/ _ \V/ _ // (/ // _ // (/ / \X/ \X/ \X/
"You fat, bloated BAKA!!" (_/(_/(_/(_/ \_)\_)\_)\___/(_/ \_)\___/ of Megawatts
"Ask a stupid question, get an answer from a stupid person." -Maruku
Glenn Doiron
>In article <2AUG1992...@zeus.tamu.edu> cpw...@zeus.tamu.edu (ALAN CHIPIN WEN (409)693-2924) writes:
[zap]
>>Give me a REAL Hedgehog competitor and I'll
>>give you a guy out another $60.... :)
>
>Not yet, but maybe soon. The new chipset is coming soon, and EuroDemo coders
>are switching to games... we might just see some really GOOD games soon.
That only work on [insert minimalist configuration here]...
Glenn Doiron
>In article <25...@nlsun1.oracle.nl>, gbra...@uks197.Berkeley.EDU (Gary Bradley) writes...
>>
>> Anyone who thinks Amiga platform games suck obviously hasn't ever
>>played the following: Parasol Stars, Gods, Robocod, Rodland and the best
>>platform game ever (even better than arcade platties in my
>>opinion)...First Samurai. On the other hand, anyone who thinks platform
>
>Never played Parasol Stars. Gods is ok. Robocod is neat the 1st 5 minutes.
>Rodland is good looking but the levels are too short. First Samurai is top
>notch. It seems that you've not played Street Fighter II, Super R-Type,
>Sonic the Hedgehog, or even Contra III. BTW, did you know that the S-NES even
>has a VGA adaptor on the bottom of the unit for hires display? I have an
>A2320 on my A2000 and it costed me $212 at student discount!
Last time I checked it was a stereo audio/composite video cable connector,
similar in function to the A1000 back in 1985 (but of course using
Nintendo's PROPRIETARY connectors). Nary a hint of RGB possibilities.
Gary Bradley
> What is the big deal with sound? I'd rather have sorry sound than sorry
> graphics and animation anyday... since they're what make the game enjoyable
> to play.
I have to disagree with this or rather extend it a little. I would
rather have sorry graphics than sorry gameplay, challenge, lastablility
and enjoyment (now you know why I dislike Sonic!). As far as I am
concerned, the graphics only add the sparkle, they are not paramount.
And there is not way that awesome grphics can hide a turkey of a game -
nor should they be permitted to.
Gary Bradley
> what the computer opponent's algorithm is and then countering it? Geez, if
> it was that simple, I'd be up in the ranks in the US National Street
Fighter II
> tournament and claim my prize... *sheesch*
Well 3 games in which that is not the case (i.e the opponents are
smart enough to react to what YOU the player do [or even what you HAVE
done in the past]) are: Gods (all baddies have artifical intelligence
and react differntly to different actions), Parasol Stars (later end of
level monsters get really mean, in a smart way) and SWIV (it throws more
difficult nasties/bullets at you if you are doing well, and less
difficult if you aren't - also certain baddies (e.g the "smart"
helicopters) get a lot more armour if you are doing very well). Of
course all of those are AMIGA games :-) :-). I'm sure there are others
ON THE AMIGA!! :-)
A quick aside about SWIV, has anyone ever noticed that the super
weapon (8-way firing on compass points) is really useless and it's much
better to stick with the standard 5-way split forward-firing weapon
(except at the very final monster of course!!)?
01ks...@bsu-ucs.uucp
they are more worried about computer systems that aren't even out yet, that
people haven't even seen yet, and that might not even exist yet. (The Amiga
4000 and the Atari Falcon.)
> BTW... Don't mail me, as I doubt I will read it, sorry.
of jerk because he doesn't realize how come everything happens so quick on his
game machines (it helps when everything is burnt into a ROM chip, doesn't it?)
> _ __ ___ ____ _____ _____________ __ _ ___ ___ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
> ///_//__//___//____//_______ _ \\// \\ // \V/ )/ )/ )/ )/ )/ ) // // //
> mjb...@lonestar.utsa.edu / // /) )/ _ \V/ _ // (/ // _ // (/ / \X/ \X/ \X/
> "You fat, bloated BAKA!!" (_/(_/(_/(_/ \_)\_)\_)\___/(_/ \_)\___/ of Megawatts
> "Ask a stupid question, get an answer from a stupid person." -Maruku
I sure as hell don't care one way or the other about non-mindo, but will
be perfectly happy after everybody finds out that there is only so much you can
do with a game machine, and that's it Whereas, on an actual full-blown, real
computer system the possibilities are nearly limitless.
In a way, I am sort of thankful for non-mindo. Anybody else want to use
their Power glove on the Amiga? Post to comp.sys.amiga.hardware for more
details.
Kyle
Jason Maskell
wrote:
GGG> But will the new chipset get any support from game companies? I
GGG> can see 3d graphics packages and video software supporting it,
GGG> but not
GGG> game software. It seems to me that game companies still look at
GGG> the
GGG> A500 with 1 meg as the machine to sell to. Will A500's or A600's
GGG> be able
GGG> to use the new chipset? If not, I can't see many game companies
GGG> making
GGG> an effort to support it.
Maybe not many will, but I know I will, little programmer tho I am..
If it's as its rumored to be, those new chips are mine when they appear.
-- Via DLG Pro v0.995
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Break it down......I SAID BREAK IT DOWN! Thank you."
-GWAR, Scumdogs of the Universe.
Jason_...@telepro.uucp
Telepro!Jason_...@access.usask.ca
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason Maskell
wrote:
G> Anyone who thinks Amiga platform games suck obviously hasn't ever
G> played the following: Parasol Stars, Gods, Robocod, Rodland and the
G> best
G> platform game ever (even better than arcade platties in my
G> opinion)...First Samurai. On the other hand, anyone who thinks
G> platform
Or Rick Dangerous...
Morten Eriksen
>-shoot-em-ups: awesome, lethal excess, silkworm iv
Have you guys played Project X on the Amiga? It's so good it made me stop playing
Salamander II at the local arcade. After seeing the Mario-game that comes with
the SNES (ugglyyy graphics, puke), I find it hard to belive that any
shoot'em-up on this console can beat Project X.
-Morten
Chuck Woo
anybody have any comments on Apidya? all I've seen are pictures, which
are pretty good...
Ken Newman
> The point is that you have the option of playing back the sample at a much
> higher rate than it was sampled. I don't consider this a waste. Also,
> sometimes it's desirable to sample at very high frequencies just for the
> sake of quality. 20 Khz really isn't that good (and also consider that you
> may wish to playback at LOWER frequencies, which would prove disastrous if
> oyu had sampled at 10 Khz, for instance).
Huh? This doesn't really make sense. Playing back samples at a higher rate
than you sampled at doesn't gain you anything, unless you're talking about
oversampling like in CD players, where there is an interpolation scheme
involved which tries to replace lost information. Once you sample at a
low rate, you've lost data permanently.
Sure, sampling at high frequencies gives you better quality, but as I said
before, nobody does it in real products because of the size of the samples.
You say that 20 kHz "isn't that good" - I disagree, since all Amiga games
on the market have samples at less than 20 kHz, and some of them sound
extremely good, like the Psygnosis games.
I don't think you understand sampling vs. playback frequency. If you playback
at a lower rate than you sampled at, you get very slow, low sounds, like
a 45 rpm record on 33. Playing back at a higher rate than the sample rate
gives you the munchkin effect, like a 33 rpm record on 45.
So commercial games, as I said before, sample AND playback at somewhere
around 10-16 kHz, which is a good compromise. The trick to getting good
sound at these rates is to equalize the sound you're sampling to cut out
most of the real high frequency. Don't be misled by CD sample rates (44.1kHz);
you can get good enough sound for games at a lot less than that. Of
course it isn't high fidelity, but totally adequate for games.
Kent Dalton
Chuck> SNES?!? the few SNES games I've seen (on tv shows or in person)
Chuck> put me into alternating fits of laughter and pain, as far as
Chuck> sound is concerned. the classic example of this is Super Mario
Chuck> World, which they demo at the local Software Etc.; it's so
Chuck> horrendous I don't even go there anymore! (okay, well, I don't
Chuck> go there cuz the amiga selection stinks, too)
If you're judging the SNES's hardware capabilities based solely on Super
Mario World and a few TV ads, you've misjudged it. I personally agree
that SMW sucks (both as a game and especially as a demo of the SNES's
capabilities), I think it was stupid of Nintendo to bundle it in with
the SNES... but anyway, many of the other action games for the SNES are
far better than any action games I've seen on the Amiga.
As far as basic hardware goes, the SNES graphics are far superior to the
Amiga and have the much vaunted hardware assisted scaling and rotation.
The number of 8-bit PCM sound channels on the SNES is 2x the number of
sound channels available on the Amiga: 8. The SNES's CPU is 1/2 as fast
as the A500's though, so that kind of evens out the A500's lack of S&R
hardware.
The real limitation of the consoles is external storage. The ROM address
range is limited to 2Mb on the SNES, I believe.
Check out something like Arcana. I seem to remeber it having good sound.
--
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/* Kent Dalton * EMail: Kent....@FtCollinsCO.NCR.COM */
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ONE: I will donate my entire ``BABY HUEY'' comic book collection
to the downtown PLASMA CENTER..
TWO: I won't START a BAND called ``KHADAFY & THE HIT SQUAD''..
THREE: I won't ever TUMBLE DRY my FOX TERRIER again!!