Alien Breed 3D & Worms, selling gooooood
Lauri Ahonen
Amiga Format 2/96 says that...:
a) 50.000 copies of worms has been sold so far!
b) 15.000 copies of AB3D
Great!... this should show Team 17, what Amigos do care about markets!
---------------------------------------.--------------------------------------
Lauri Ahonen: Zool 'N' Cool / EMbASSy ö EMAIL me at: "zo...@klinja.fipnet.fi"
---------------------------------------'--------------------------------------
"Game worth playing is a game worth Buying, Support developers!"
_
_ // <- AMiGA 4k, CV64, CNet, ARexx, CARROLS, MICROCOM, AB3D & Team17 ->
ÖX/ AMiGA Ö________________________________________________________________/
Ian Wilson
: Amiga Format 2/96 says that...:
: a) 50.000 copies of worms has been sold so far!
: b) 15.000 copies of AB3D
I would hope that 15,000 is a mis-print (mis-type?) - I don't think 15,000
sales will make the Team17 bods much money.
--
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| i...@iwilson.demon.co.uk |
+----------------------------------------------------------+
| No no, no no no no, no no no no, no no there's no limits |
+---------------------------------------------2 Unlimited--+
Martyn Brown
>
> a) 50.000 copies of worms has been sold so far!
> b) 15.000 copies of AB3D
>
And I for one would be *extremely* interested to see where they got the figures for
the Worms sales on Amiga. I can`t argue with AB3D, it`s been a little less, but not
far away...
Worms has *NOT* sold 50,000 units on Amiga. Fact.
Martyn.
Paul Chan
Amiga Format have used that well known tabloid method of "rounding up the
figures, even though it`s nowhere near" - in the news pages, they mentioned
something in their text about well on their way to 50k or nearly 50k - I aummed
40-thousand something or other. How many *did* you sell (if I may ask?)
Alex Amsel
<i...@iwilson.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
> I would hope that 15,000 is a mis-print (mis-type?) - I don't think
15,000
> sales will make the Team17 bods much money.
Actually I believe it is less. I don`t know the full details but I
believe actual sales are around 11-12000 maybe. And no, this isn`t
enough :( Damn good for A1200 games though.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
| Alex Amsel : Silltunna Software Lead Programmer : Black Magic |
| XTremeRacing 1x1 TMapping and Stunning Gameplay on AGA Amigas |
| Al...@teeth.demon.co.uk | Steve Bull is Back | *PWEIPWEIPWEI* |
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Oliver Roberts
> Amiga Format 2/96 says that...:
>
> a) 50.000 copies of worms has been sold so far!
> b) 15.000 copies of AB3D
>
> Great!... this should show Team 17, what Amigos do care about markets!
On the worms mailing list Martyn Brown from Team 17 has said that the
50,000 figure is the sales of the PlayStation version, and not the Amiga
version. Although I guess it must have sold very well on the Amiga.
| Oliver Roberts Internet E-Mail: O.J.C....@essex.ac.uk |
| (3rd Yr Comp-Sci) WWW: http://cswww2.essex.ac.uk/users/robeoy/ |
| |
| Amiga Developer - author of F1GP-Ed, ButtonMenu, CDRun and F1GP-LapSet |
| |
+==== Amiga F1GP stuff - http://cswww2.essex.ac.uk/users/robeoy/af1.html ====+
A.S.T....@ncl.ac.uk
>Worms has *NOT* sold 50,000 units on Amiga. Fact.
>
>Martyn.
Can you give us a clue as to how far out AF are?
Worms is great, BTW.
Andy
Gareth Edwards
> In article: <960118194...@iwilson.demon.co.uk> Ian Wilson
> <i...@iwilson.demon.co.uk> writes:
> >
>
> > I would hope that 15,000 is a mis-print (mis-type?) - I don't think
> 15,000
> > sales will make the Team17 bods much money.
>
> Actually I believe it is less. I don`t know the full details but I
> believe actual sales are around 11-12000 maybe. And no, this isn`t
> enough :( Damn good for A1200 games though.
I'd imagine (or rather, I fucking well hope?) AB3D II - The Killing Grounds
sells much better cuz it supports other chipsets/gfx cards.
And it looks great. Can't wait til Andy come into the office so I can have
a skeg at it running :)
Oh, and to get some screen shot off him.
Love & Life,
G.
--
Marcus Dyson
<i...@iwilson.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>: Amiga Format 2/96 says that...:
>
>: a) 50.000 copies of worms has been sold so far!
>: b) 15.000 copies of AB3D
>
>I would hope that 15,000 is a mis-print (mis-type?) - I don't think 15,000
>sales will make the Team17 bods much money.
The 15,000 is not a misprint. Most Amiga games have been selling fewer
than 10,000 copies for the last two years or so.
--
Marcus, Team 17 (Multiimedia) Ltd
Alan L.M. Buxey
: 40-thousand something or other. How many *did* you sell (if I may ask?)
please rephrase to "How many have you sold so far?"...
alan
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Date: Mon Jan 22 09:26:43 GMT 1996 Issue:01/00/00 NOT to be carried on M.S.N.!
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Alan L.M. Buxey
: The 15,000 is not a misprint. Most Amiga games have been selling fewer
: than 10,000 copies for the last two years or so.
So, Marcus, are you going to target the Mac games market then???? ;)
(apparently only 10% the size of the Amiga market.. ;) )
alan
--
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Date: Mon Jan 22 09:26:43 GMT 1996 Issue:01/00/00 NOT to be carried on M.S.N.!
Info:Male22EnglishANLsupporterBANLIVEEXPORTSActiveOnTheNetforover4yrsUKSource
forAmigaReportSolverOfAmigaProblems.TheAmiga-NowTheresAReasonForNotOwningAPC.
Paul Chan
>Marcus Dyson posted the following:
>
>: The 15,000 is not a misprint. Most Amiga games have been selling fewer
>: than 10,000 copies for the last two years or so.
>
>So, Marcus, are you going to target the Mac games market then???? ;)
>
>(apparently only 10% the size of the Amiga market.. ;) )
It may be for now, but it`s growing into an explosion akin to the Doom induced
one that PC`s had a couple of years ago. Meanwhile, the Amiga continues its
decline. Fast cpus may be able to slow this decline if they do it right, but
really, what the games community of the Amiga needs is a hotshot new chipset to
compete with the "big-boys".
Marcus Dyson
>>
>>So, Marcus, are you going to target the Mac games market then???? ;)
>>
>>(apparently only 10% the size of the Amiga market.. ;) )
>
>It may be for now, but it`s growing into an explosion akin to the Doom induced
>one that PC`s had a couple of years ago. Meanwhile, the Amiga continues its
>decline. Fast cpus may be able to slow this decline if they do it right, but
>really, what the games community of the Amiga needs is a hotshot new chipset to
>compete with the "big-boys".
We're supporting the Mac market (probably) with Worms for one reason...
I've got a Mac at home :-)
No, honestly, the reason why we can do a Mac Worms is because much of the
code is portable from the PC, so development time is short, which it needs
to be becausue the Mac games market is very small.
But lots of magazines run network Mac set-ups in their offices, like we
used to at Amiga Format. By giving (or selling) those people a networked
version of Worms they can play while they should be working, we can keep
Worms foremost in their minds, ensuring that we get on-going press
coverage, comparisons to other games in reviews etc etc until Worms 2
comes out...
We will do a few more Mac games, Euro manager 96, IFL and Profits warning,
but it is not a fixed feature of our release schedule, just yet. Although
the Bandai Pippin Powerplayer might *just* change that... you never
know...
Mark Hillman
Alan L.M. Buxey (kc...@central.susx.ac.uk) wrote:
: Marcus Dyson posted the following:
:
: : The 15,000 is not a misprint. Most Amiga games have been selling fewer
: : than 10,000 copies for the last two years or so.
: So, Marcus, are you going to target the Mac games market then???? ;)
:
: (apparently only 10% the size of the Amiga market.. ;) )
I wouldn't gloat about it.
The Mac market is vastly expanding. The Amiga games market is in rapid decline.
Would companies like LucasArts be releasing on Macs if it wasn't?
How long is it since the last LA game on the Amiga.?
(Note to any LucasArts people reading this.. PLEASE can we have some nice
new games for the Amiga. please please please please please)
Markus...
--
Once you have their money...
You *NEVER* give it back...
Mar...@globinc.avel.co.uk
-1st Rule Of Acquisition leCHEF
Ian Gledhill
In article <1159.659...@globinc.avel.co.uk> Mark Hillman <Mar...@globinc.avel.co.uk> writes:
>
> Alan L.M. Buxey (kc...@central.susx.ac.uk) wrote:
> : So, Marcus, are you going to target the Mac games market then???? ;)
> :
> : (apparently only 10% the size of the Amiga market.. ;) )
>
> I wouldn't gloat about it.
>
> The Mac market is vastly expanding. The Amiga games market is in rapid decline.
>
(at least in the UK)
> Would companies like LucasArts be releasing on Macs if it wasn't?
>
YES, because they're subsidised by Apple, I believe!
> How long is it since the last LA game on the Amiga.?
>
Too long!
> (Note to any LucasArts people reading this.. PLEASE can we have some nice
> new games for the Amiga. please please please please please)
>
That bit I do agree with!
--
Ian Gledhill im...@aber.ac.uk
UNREGISTERED VERSION
>>sales will make the Team17 bods much money.
>than 10,000 copies for the last two years or so.
How was it before Commodore screwed up then? 30000-40000?
And do you really mean that NON-AGA games too sell as little as 10000 copies?
How many percent of these AB3D-sales are for the CD32-version?
-- Rustybrain -- Sigop AMIGAvsPC at Global Issue (tlf.56599956) CALL NOW!
Martyn Brown
>And do you really mean that NON-AGA games too sell as little as 10000 copies?
>How many percent of these AB3D-sales are for the CD32-version?
A top title in the days when the Amiga really was in the spotlight
(say 2-3 years hence) then you could reasonably expect a Number 1 hit
to sell 30-40K, yes. Ab3D has done around 11-12K, with 15% of these
being on CD32.
And remember 2-3 years ago, there was a *lot* of competition from
other software houses (maybe 30-40 releases a month!).
Martyn Brown, Development Director at Team17 Software Limited.
Supporter of fine software, fine beers and Leeds United,
a fine but consistantly inconsistant footballing team.
"Ignore me, it`s the beer talking..."
A.S.T....@ncl.ac.uk
>And remember 2-3 years ago, there was a *lot* of competition from
>other software houses (maybe 30-40 releases a month!).
<sigh> AB3D2 looks and sounds like it will be absolutely superb, but
since it's probably T17's last release for the Amiga, I'm not going to go
out and buy a 1200, 060 accelerator and 4Mb RAM upgrade...
As I just wrote in another thread, with PC prices tumbling constantly,
there's really no motivation for me to spend over £1000 just to play half
a dozen games that support the higher spec systems... :(
Life is cruel... :(
Andy - all depressed now - I don't want to buy a PC <spit> :(
E.T....@ncl.ac.uk
>Andy - all depressed now - I don't want to buy a PC <spit> :(
>
Well don't, if you like Amiga so much you'll pay a little extra for a
high spec machine. Without your support the Amiga will never pick up.
Ed
Martyn Brown
A long time ago, we got flamed for saying this would be the case.
Martyn Brown, Development Director at Team17 Software Limited.
Jesus Saves! ...Yeboah gets the rebound!
Ian Gledhill
In article <4ev3rv$4...@whitbeck.ncl.ac.uk> A.S.T....@ncl.ac.uk writes:
>
> Yes, but I don't have the money to throw away on supporting a dying
> machine...If a million others did the same, then fine, but they won't...I
> *want* to have an Amiga rather than a PC, but if there are only a dozen
> games that use an expanded Amiga to its full potential, then I may as
> well bite the bullet and start using Windows <shudder>
>
Have you tried using Windows for long periods of time? Don't you get
completely infuriated by the clunkiness of Windoze?
You're looking at this the wrong way. P.C.'s are all very well and good
in as much as they can do professional software, but when it comes to
games there's not as much as you'd think. Sure, there's some good releases
around not on the Amiga, but is it worth the pain and hassle of using an
inferior machine? Pentiums are fast, but they need to be to run anything
decent in Windows. I use my Amiga 4000/30 for everything. I don't need
to use a P.C. for anything.
Plus, if you upgrade to a faster processor and CyberVision, you get a
Macintosh compatible too, with SS.
Believe me, after using your brand new Pentium a bit, you'll find yourself
wishing you hadn't sold that lovely, smooth operating system called
WorkBench!
Remember, the grass on the other side of the fence is always greener..
> Escom have made a bit of a mess of things really, haven't they?
Give them a chance! They've had less than a year to sort this out.
If they actually did any advertising, they'd do much better, though....
--
Ian Gledhill Amiga 4000/30 10Mb 4x CD-ROM CyberVision-64
Ariadne EtherNet Oktagon SCSI Zip Drive
im...@aber.ac.uk
http://www.dcs.aber.ac.uk/~img4 irc: IanG
A.S.T....@ncl.ac.uk
>Well don't, if you like Amiga so much you'll pay a little extra for a
>high spec machine. Without your support the Amiga will never pick up.
Yes, but I don't have the money to throw away on supporting a dying
machine...If a million others did the same, then fine, but they won't...I
*want* to have an Amiga rather than a PC, but if there are only a dozen
games that use an expanded Amiga to its full potential, then I may as
well bite the bullet and start using Windows <shudder>
Not that I'll be buying one before I graduate...no point since I have Net
access for free at Uni, and besides, imagine what price Pentium Pros will
be in two and a half years time...<drool>
Escom have made a bit of a mess of things really, haven't they?
Andy
E.T....@ncl.ac.uk
For once I agree with you ;).
Ed
A.S.T....@ncl.ac.uk
>Have you tried using Windows for long periods of time? Don't you get
>completely infuriated by the clunkiness of Windoze?
Fair enough...
>You're looking at this the wrong way. P.C.'s are all very well and good
>in as much as they can do professional software, but when it comes to
>games there's not as much as you'd think. Sure, there's some good releases
>around not on the Amiga, but is it worth the pain and hassle of using an
>inferior machine? Pentiums are fast, but they need to be to run >anything decent in Windows.
Good point.
>I use my Amiga 4000/30 for everything. I don't need to use a P.C. for >anything.
Those 4000s aren't cheap! Let's compare an A1200 (£400) with the machine
I'm writing this on, a DX-2 486-50 (£550 inc. CD-ROM). Take away the
CD-ROM and the two machines would cost around the same...I really don't
think that the Amiga is the better machine...even though it may have the
better OS...basically, with the 1200 being three or four years old and
still at the same price it was when released, Escom aren't going to sell
many when PCs halve in price every 18 months...so this 486-50 would have
cost £2000 four years ago (apparently), and then I would have gone for
the Amiga...but as PC prices tumble, eventually one will be able to get a
decent one at a decent price, and can overlook the problems of Windows...
>Plus, if you upgrade to a faster processor and CyberVision, you get a
>Macintosh compatible too, with SS.
>Believe me, after using your brand new Pentium a bit, you'll find yourself
>wishing you hadn't sold that lovely, smooth operating system called
>WorkBench!
:) Well, I prefer Workbench to Windows, but...
>Remember, the grass on the other side of the fence is always greener..
True...
>> Escom have made a bit of a mess of things really, haven't they?
>Give them a chance! They've had less than a year to sort this out.
>If they actually did any advertising, they'd do much better, though....
Well, exactly, what's their problem? No-one knows about the Amiga, and
with Escom staff telling people not to buy them, what do they expect?
Andy
A.S.T....@ncl.ac.uk
Ian Gledhill
In article <4f4bof$g...@whitbeck.ncl.ac.uk> A.S.T....@ncl.ac.uk writes:
>
> >I use my Amiga 4000/30 for everything. I don't need to use a P.C. for >anything.
>
> Those 4000s aren't cheap!
I got mine second hand! :-)
> Let's compare an A1200 (£400) with the machine
> I'm writing this on, a DX-2 486-50 (£550 inc. CD-ROM). Take away the
> CD-ROM and the two machines would cost around the same...I really don't
> think that the Amiga is the better machine...even though it may have the
> better OS...
No, I agree with you in as much as the 486 is a lot faster and the 1200
is horribly slow these days.
You're not being quite fair, though. The machine isn't £400: the Amiga
Magic Pack is £400. You get a lot of stuff for £400 which you've ignored!
>basically, with the 1200 being three or four years old and
> still at the same price it was when released, Escom aren't going to sell
> many when PCs halve in price every 18 months...so this 486-50 would have
> cost £2000 four years ago (apparently), and then I would have gone for
> the Amiga...but as PC prices tumble, eventually one will be able to get a
> decent one at a decent price, and can overlook the problems of Windows...
>
A decent PC? There's no such thing! ;-)
> >> Escom have made a bit of a mess of things really, haven't they?
> >Give them a chance! They've had less than a year to sort this out.
> >If they actually did any advertising, they'd do much better, though....
>
> Well, exactly, what's their problem? No-one knows about the Amiga, and
> with Escom staff telling people not to buy them, what do they expect?
>
You can't blame Escom for some rogue staff. How were they to know that
their staff would be PeeCee Zombies?
It's not Escom itself that's at fault, it's their staff's attitude that's
to blame here.
Gavan Moran
: Martyn...@team17.com (Martyn Brown) wrote:
: >And remember 2-3 years ago, there was a *lot* of competition from
: >other software houses (maybe 30-40 releases a month!).
: <sigh> AB3D2 looks and sounds like it will be absolutely superb, but
: since it's probably T17's last release for the Amiga, I'm not going to go
: out and buy a 1200, 060 accelerator and 4Mb RAM upgrade...
: As I just wrote in another thread, with PC prices tumbling constantly,
: there's really no motivation for me to spend over Ł1000 just to play half
: a dozen games that support the higher spec systems... :(
I feel the same way - I _was_ going to spend about 500 quid on upgrading
my system to 50mHz 030, 8 megs fastRAM and 850meg HD but I find I can now go
into an ESCOM shop and buy a _complete_ 486/66 system (ie with monitor) for
around 650 quid! Given we are likely to see so few Amiga games, never mind
games that support fast CPUs it just doesn't make sense to splash out on
new Amiga gear. The platform is effectively dead.
Gavan
--
email: G.M...@ee.qub.ac.uk | 'There can be only one!'
or gmo...@nyx.cs.du.edu | - The Highlander
Gavan Moran
: A.S.T....@ncl.ac.uk wrote:
: >Andy - all depressed now - I don't want to buy a PC <spit> :(
: >
: Well don't, if you like Amiga so much you'll pay a little extra for a
: high spec machine. Without your support the Amiga will never pick up.
: Ed
I've heard this arguement lots of times with systems on the way out.
Persuading an individual to buy a system will not save that system, but it will
leave the individual having spent money on a dead duck.
C.J Coulson
|>
|> In article <4ev3rv$4...@whitbeck.ncl.ac.uk> A.S.T....@ncl.ac.uk writes:
There seems to be a surprising number of ncl based Amiga owners popping up
on the group recently...what`s going on, and why wasn`t I told about it?
|> >
|> You're looking at this the wrong way. P.C.'s are all very well and good
|> in as much as they can do professional software, but when it comes to
|> games there's not as much as you'd think. Sure, there's some good releases
|> around not on the Amiga, but is it worth the pain and hassle of using an
|> inferior machine? Pentiums are fast, but they need to be to run anything
|> decent in Windows. I use my Amiga 4000/30 for everything. I don't need
|> to use a P.C. for anything.
Let`s see now. I use my Amiga for programming, 2D/3D graphics work,
games (Pinball Illusions, Worms, AB3D and F1GP mainly) and general
stuff - writing letters with FW4, archiving data to HD floppy (that extra
300KB per disk over the PC makes a *lot* of difference).
OTOH, I use my PC for University work and, most importantly, flight sims.
Most of the time I don`t go near Windows. If it wasn`t for flight sims,
I wouldn`t need a PC at home either.
|> Remember, the grass on the other side of the fence is always greener..
So, buy both bits of grass...
|>
|> > Escom have made a bit of a mess of things really, haven't they?
|>
|> Give them a chance! They've had less than a year to sort this out.
|> If they actually did any advertising, they'd do much better, though....
Yeah, lets wait until the end of this year before making any critical
judgements about AT. As for adverts, I hope they don`t use the same
people that did the C= ads.....just thinking about them makes me
want to vent my digestive system in a rather unpleasant manner :-)
Regards
Chris
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Coulson | A4000-060/CV64 - 20MB/530MB
Robotics Postgraduate | Pentium60 - 16MB/1.4GB/CDROM
University of Newcastle upon Tyne | A500 - 1MB
| Sinclair Spectrum - 48KB
E-Mail: | Sinclair ZX81 - 1KB
c.j.c...@ncl.ac.uk | "The times are a'changing..."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Gavan Moran
: Not that I'll be buying one before I graduate...no point since I have Net
: access for free at Uni, and besides, imagine what price Pentium Pros will
: be in two and a half years time...<drool>
: Escom have made a bit of a mess of things really, haven't they?
I don't think you can put all the blame on ESCOM .. after all C= stood
around with the Amiga for years and did _nothing_ with it. Then after they
went bust it was over a year before the machine was bought by ESCOM. So
before ESCOM came out with the A1200 again it was (a) Out of date by at
least 1 1/2 years and (b) Out of date by at least a year before that.
Now A1200s are ridiculously *expensive* when compared to PCs.
eg In UK .. A1200 (400) + 50 Mhz 030 (180) + 4 meg fast (130) + low res
monitor (200) + 850 meg HD (180) == 1090 quid!!!!!!!!!
For the same price you could easily have a 486 DX4/100 with 8 megs RAM,
at least the same size HD, super-duper PCI gfx card and a nice 15" hi-res
monitor. Actually, I bet you could source a Pentium 75 for that much and
it would have a CDROM drive too! Its no wonder that companies can't be
bothered to support the Amiga any more when PCs are so much cheaper for the
amount of power you get, and are so much more plentiful.
Basically the Amiga is dead as a mainstream platform. I'm keeping mine
since I still get enjoyment from using it, but the only reason I haven't
bit the bullet and bought a PC already is because I have full access to
a load of high-end pentiums etc at work. Thus I don't really _need_ my
own PC and my Amiga does fine as a home machine to play around on.
Its sad, but years of disgraceful neglect by C= killed the Amiga. I'm
sure ESCOM can sell enough and license the technology to make their money
back on the purchase price, but I can't really see them developing the
technology very far. The 'Power Amiga' is most likely to be a power mac
clone with the Amiga name on the front to give it marketability.
Derek M Avery
was completely out of date then fair enough, let it die, but it isn`t, the
operating system is still the best and even Pc owners have to upgrade their
machine or they die.
It`s time for some optimism, give Escom a chance, if they fluff it then you can
moan.
**************************************************
* D.M.Aver...@cs.bham.ac.uk *
*------------------------------------------------*
* Never take financial advice from someone who *
* isn't extremely rich *
**************************************************
Geoff Adams
>A.S.T....@ncl.ac.uk wrote:
>
>: As I just wrote in another thread, with PC prices tumbling constantly,
>
> I feel the same way - I _was_ going to spend about 500 quid on upgrading
>my system to 50mHz 030, 8 megs fastRAM and 850meg HD but I find I can now go
>into an ESCOM shop and buy a _complete_ 486/66 system (ie with monitor) for
>around 650 quid! Given we are likely to see so few Amiga games, never mind
>games that support fast CPUs it just doesn't make sense to splash out on
>new Amiga gear. The platform is effectively dead.
Dead for now, and dead in it's present form, probably yes. However, if
you're in the mood to spend 500 quid I'd sell your A1200 while you still
can get something for it and buy an A4000/030 instead, at least you get
ZorroIII slots, an HD floppy, a better PSU, and more chance of upgradeability
to any future PowerAmiga spec.
I too have though about the 1400 quids worth of 4000/040 and lusted as I
saw Quake screenshots and cheap 2nd hand P90's, but I used my sisters PC
at the w/e and had to use it for an hour, I swear I nearly went mad. If
I have to use one of those, I won't, I'll keep a cheap Amiga for accounts/
word processing and spend the money on something else, say a new VFR750 :^)
A PowerMac I could be interested in, but it seems a dodgy time to buy one of
them as well.
Geoff./
---
#==================================#==================================#
| Geoff Adams, Tel: (01444) 234191 | DOD #1481 | MAG #88198 |
| etl...@etlxdmx.ericsson.se | OGRI | Hawk GT |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------------+
| Ericsson!, Even I Don't Know What I'm Saying, Why Should They? |
+----------------------------------+----------------------------------+
| Is :- Honda NT650J Bros 650 | Was:- XJ600S,XT600E,XS250,H100 |
#==================================#==================================#
Marc Forrester
> >I use my Amiga 4000/30 for everything.
> >I don't need to use a P.C. for anything.
> Those 4000s aren't cheap!
Maybe. OTOH, for #500 you can put an '040 processor in a 1200,
or for #650, you can make than an '060..
> Let's compare an A1200 (=A3400) with the machine I'm writing this on,
> a DX-2 486-50 (=A3550 inc. CD-ROM). Take away the CD-ROM and the two
> machines would cost around the same...I really don't think that the
> Amiga is the better machine...even though it may have the better OS..
Sorta depends what you mean by a 'better' machine..
Better OS, better games and utilities per Meg, nice clean Motorola
architechture, no base/expanded/extended memory fiddling..
Okay, for equivalent amounts of cash there's not much to choose
in raw power, but that's the only area where you come out equal..
> basically, with the 1200 being three or four years old and still
> at the same price it was when released, Escom aren't going to sell
> many when PCs halve in price every 18 months...
Escom aren't the only factor, there's still a lot of good
hardware support for the Amiga from independant developers..
The base machine is getting a bit past it, yes, especially
the screen memory speed, but you can get shiny new modern
versions of all the peripherals and plug them in.
>>If they actually did any advertising, they'd do much better, though
> Well, exactly, what's their problem? No-one knows about the Amiga..
Mm. Has anyone seen any hint of a mention of AT in any Escom store?
Alan L.M. Buxey
: my system to 50mHz 030, 8 megs fastRAM and 850meg HD but I find I can now go
: into an ESCOM shop and buy a _complete_ 486/66 system (ie with monitor) for
: around 650 quid! Given we are likely to see so few Amiga games, never mind
: games that support fast CPUs it just doesn't make sense to splash out on
: new Amiga gear. The platform is effectively dead.
i disagree with this - the Amiga is still seeing low-power releases
(such as the recent tennis game) that are good....but now we have this
new rush of "power" games.....you can buy your 486-66 if you want ( and
i wont stop you if you feel that way!) but it'll need at least 8MB to
run any games - oh, and a "multimedia pack" since hardly any new PC
games are coming on floppy now - and most newer games need a pentium
system (this is true!) - whilst you can get
50MHz 030 + 8 MB of ram for 400 UKP and an 850 for 100 UKP - thats 500
quid, and it`'ll make youer A1200 SO different, its almost unbeleiveable
- old games become totally different (yeah, some dont work!) but certain
classics become VERY playable..
alan
: or gmo...@nyx.cs.du.edu | - The Highlander
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Alan L.M. Buxey
: I've heard this arguement lots of times with systems on the way out.
: Persuading an individual to buy a system will not save that system, but it will
: leave the individual having spent money on a dead duck.
which is exactly what your 486-66 will be in less than 4 months time.
alan
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forAmigaReportSolverOfAmigaProblems.TheAmiga-NowTheresAReasonForNotOwningAPC.
Alan L.M. Buxey
: <sigh> AB3D2 looks and sounds like it will be absolutely superb, but
: since it's probably T17's last release for the Amiga, I'm not going to go
: out and buy a 1200, 060 accelerator and 4Mb RAM upgrade...
you dont need 060 - just a 200 UKP 030/50 will do for a start! :)
: Andy - all depressed now - I don't want to buy a PC <spit> :(
BUT if you DID get a PC you'd have to spend over 1000 UKP to get a
pentium system - as all the new games wont run on anything else at ANY
decent rate.
Alan L.M. Buxey
: Why would a person buy a butt-slow 2Meg Chip A1200 when they could almost
: buy a rather serious Pentium system which makes an awfully nice Linux
: box for the same money? It's not hard at all these days to find AT LEAST
: a 486DX/2 for the price of a 1200...
eh? WHERE can you get a pentium for 350 UKP ?
as for Linux box, my A1200 50/030/882 makes a very nice Linux system too
- yes, you CAN run Linux very nicely on an Amiga too.
: Their prices are worth moaning over.
dont buy from THEM then - try somewhere cheaper that does extra
packs... !st Computer centre, leeds , UK for example.
alan
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--------Support Software Writers, Dont copy/buy/swap Pirated software---------
Gavan Moran
: : my system to 50mHz 030, 8 megs fastRAM and 850meg HD but I find I can now go
: : into an ESCOM shop and buy a _complete_ 486/66 system (ie with monitor) for
: : around 650 quid! Given we are likely to see so few Amiga games, never mind
: : games that support fast CPUs it just doesn't make sense to splash out on
: : new Amiga gear. The platform is effectively dead.
: i disagree with this - the Amiga is still seeing low-power releases
: (such as the recent tennis game) that are good....but now we have this
: new rush of "power" games.....you can buy your 486-66 if you want ( and
: i wont stop you if you feel that way!) but it'll need at least 8MB to
: run any games - oh, and a "multimedia pack" since hardly any new PC
: games are coming on floppy now - and most newer games need a pentium
: system (this is true!) - whilst you can get
: 50MHz 030 + 8 MB of ram for 400 UKP and an 850 for 100 UKP - thats 500
: quid, and it`'ll make youer A1200 SO different, its almost unbeleiveable
: - old games become totally different (yeah, some dont work!) but certain
: classics become VERY playable..
I already have an 030/28 and HD - so the difference isn't going to be
that great. And a 486/100 will run games as fast as a P60. I can get
a complete 486/100 system with PCI and SCSI for 800 quid - thats only 300
more than it would cost to boost my A1200. And its an order of magnitude
more powerful with infinitely more software available, and more 'power'
games. Not to mention two excellent free unix clones.
Gavan
--
email: G.M...@ee.qub.ac.uk | 'There can be only one!'
Gavan Moran
: Gavan Moran posted the following:
: : I've heard this arguement lots of times with systems on the way out.
: : Persuading an individual to buy a system will not save that system, but it will
: : leave the individual having spent money on a dead duck.
: which is exactly what your 486-66 will be in less than 4 months time.
In 4 months time theres a lot more software that will run well on a 486/66
than there is on an Amiga. Most new Amiga games are crap, only a few choice
ones are any good and the quantity of new releases is miniscule. Its unlikely
there will ever be more than 4 or 5 games than really push the power in an
A1200. Its over.....
Marc Forrester
> Star Fighter (some real-time
> raytracing & texture mapped space fights + inside ship doom sections,
Hey, yeah? Style. Frontier needed that. Amongst other things.
Is there a place to go for Star Fighter hype yet?
Gavan Moran
: : Why would a person buy a butt-slow 2Meg Chip A1200 when they could almost
: : buy a rather serious Pentium system which makes an awfully nice Linux
: : box for the same money? It's not hard at all these days to find AT LEAST
: : a 486DX/2 for the price of a 1200...
: eh? WHERE can you get a pentium for 350 UKP ?
: as for Linux box, my A1200 50/030/882 makes a very nice Linux system too
: - yes, you CAN run Linux very nicely on an Amiga too.
Not nearly as well as on a PC though .. and if you have an A1200 your
graphics aren't going to be up to much.
Jason Compton
: games. Not to mention two excellent free unix clones.
That point evades me. They're also available on the Amiga.
--
Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com
Editor-in-Chief, Amiga Report Magazine (708) 741-0689 FAX
You know you're on the way out... it's just a matter of time.
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Reg Martin
: Reg Martin posted the following:
:
: : Why would a person buy a butt-slow 2Meg Chip A1200 when they could almost
: : buy a rather serious Pentium system which makes an awfully nice Linux
: : box for the same money? It's not hard at all these days to find AT LEAST
: : a 486DX/2 for the price of a 1200...
:
: eh? WHERE can you get a pentium for 350 UKP ?
I don't know what the exchange rate is on UKP, but all of the prices
that I've seen for a bare 1200 (no hard drive, 2 Megs Chip) are around
$800 Canadian (around $570 US). I didn't say you could get a Pentium for
that. I said that you could *almost* buy a Pentium for that. I also
said that for the same price as that piece-of-crap-way-too-slow-even-
when-it-came-out-in-1992-A1200 you could get a DX2. This is true.
Around these parts it's not too hard to find a DX2/66 with 4 Megs
and a 540Meg HD for $800. Sorry, but the 1200 loses by a long shot...
: as for Linux box, my A1200 50/030/882 makes a very nice Linux system too
: - yes, you CAN run Linux very nicely on an Amiga too.
A 1200 makes a pretty mediocre Linux box. If we're going to start talking
about the price of an A1200 50/030/882 then you CAN get a P90 system...
Easily... If you think that the 1200 is going to compare favourably
to a P90 then, well...you're wrong. :)
: : Their prices are worth moaning over.
:
: dont buy from THEM then - try somewhere cheaper that does extra
: packs... !st Computer centre, leeds , UK for example.
All of the prices I've seen are the same. There's also the fact that
anybody in NA doesn't have many options when it comes to actually
finding a place where they can buy an Amiga...
Incidentally, I *AM* still using my 4000 and I do like it (although
it has some rather serious problems) and I don't plan on selling it
any time soon. However, if I was going out to buy a new computer
today you can be sure that I wouldn't be foolish enough to pay several
hundred dollars extra for a very under-powered machine with little
to no support...
Reg Martin
Neil Brendan Clark
>which is exactly what your 486-66 will be in less than 4 months time.
Eh? My P75 is already heading that way. Or so I'm told. Suits me fine. Mind,
I don't run Windows on it...
--
"We got drunk, we got stoned, we got - well *one* of us got laid, and you
nearly did - we had a fight, which we *won* dammit, and then we ran away...
holy shit; what more do you want?" - The Player Of Games, I.M.Banks
Neil Clark, Transparent Telepresence Group,http://telepresence.dmem.strath.ac.uk
Dean Pompilio
about every little thing they can find wrong with the "old" Amigas and Escom's
handling of this whole affair. I wonder how many of these people are actually
_in_ the Business World... do they have any idea how difficult the logistics
and planning are for resurrecting the Amiga? I mean, come on! Escom seems to
have a sound plan. They seem to be doing what they said they would... It's
never soon enough, I know... but your machines aren't exactly going to melt
down tomorrow! Use what you have until the Power Amiga/PPC cards become
available. We all could benefit by excercising a little self-control and
patience instead of whining about it all!
-Dean
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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= Does fuzzy logic tickle? =
= Do Witches use Spell Checkers? =
= =
= Dean J. Pompilio ( cdp...@email.mot.com ) =
= LAN Administrator =
= Motorola SSC Inc. =
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Christer Bjarnemo
Worms, selling gooooood:
>Its over.....
We are a bit negative, aren't we? :-)
--
Christer Bjarnemo christer...@mailbox.swipnet.se
Worldwide e-mail search: http://directory.ausys.se/ecatalog/
--
Gavan Moran
: Gavan Moran (gavinm@vsprsun_15) wrote:
: : games. Not to mention two excellent free unix clones.
: That point evades me. They're also available on the Amiga.
Are the Amiga ports of Linux and freeBSD as well developed and supported
on the Amiga as they are on the PC? How about a suitable Amiga system to
run them .. 50mHz 030/8 megs ram/large HD. For that price (even if you
take an A1200 as base) you can buy a simlarly specced p75 system which
will do the job a hell of a lot better. If you're talking an A4000 then
you're into 150 mHz pentium pro territory with 32 megs ram, 4 gig discs -
the works. Are you honestly saying the Amiga can match those PCs as a
unix box?
Plus of course theres the gfx card issue - the A1200 has a dearth of high
quality hi-res output solutions, the A4000/3000 have some but they are way
overpriced compared to exactly the same chipsets on a PCI card. The Amiga
simply does not make sense as a unix box. PCs do that so much better. Another
reason why my Amiga will not be seeing further hardware expenditure.
By the way - has anyone seen Duke Nukem 3D on the PC yet? Its totally
awesome and blows Doom2 clean away. This at a time when it looks like the
Amiga has finally managed to produce a decent Doom game - the standard is
suddenly raised massively.
The Amiga _could_ have been the top system. It was an inherently better
designed machine - much better OS, better hardware design, great custom
chipset etc, but under the dead hand of commodore it was left undeveloped
whilst the PC surged ahead. Now its just too late for ESCOM to pick up the
pieces.
gavan
James Stephen Bull
: : : A.S.T....@ncl.ac.uk wrote:
: : : >Andy - all depressed now - I don't want to buy a PC <spit> :(
: : : >
: : : Well don't, if you like Amiga so much you'll pay a little extra for a
: : : high spec machine. Without your support the Amiga will never pick up.
: : : Ed
: : I've heard this arguement lots of times with systems on the way out.
: : Persuading an individual to buy a system will not save that system, but it will
: : leave the individual having spent money on a dead duck.
: It depends on your definition of a dead duck. Many people use their computer
: for more than games. It is the reason that I bought a computer rather than a
: console.I have spent money upgrading my machine and I am not worried about it
: at all. My Amiga (1200 030/50/6) has to last me until I graduate (probably
: longer) I don't see a problem with this, I can save Wordworth files as ascii
: pop them on the PC to print out I can compile my work for my course using a
: Freeware M2 compiler and this will not change even if no one in the entire
: world uses an Amiga apart from me. You are right about one thing though
: persuading people to buy something because _you_ want them to own it is not
: generally a good idea, I personally use an Amiga because I like it and for no
: other reason. I am not particularly fond of PCs so I don't use them, simple.
: Is my games collection going to disappear when the Amiga finally goes out of
: production ? No. Is my computer useful to me ? Yes.
: Amiga, get one while you still can.
: James Bull
Hang on, I've just completely contradicted myself. Ooops :-) Hey you
shoiuldn't tell people what to buy. Get an Amiga. Great argument. ;)
: : Gavan
: : --
Ken Powell
>Didn't you hear him? "Without your support the Amiga will never pick up" -
>which means that u don't give-up - a computer lives & dies on it`s
>*percieved* future - if enough people (that means YOU!) believe enough in
>the Amiga to support it, then it *will* survive.
Well I agree completely that the Ami needs support and a percieved future. Its this
that AT have mucked up - making it hard for the Ami to be viable. I really don't
want a PC but equally I do want an Amiga with decent graphics which means having
slots. At the moment I can spend #2200 on a 040 Ami/T to get slots (well, I can't
as no one stocks them but...) or forgo the slots with a 1200. The 1200 isn't
powerful enough so add a fast 030 or 040 with some RAM and a SCSI card so I can add
some disk space and a CD - we're up to 1100 and a CD would be another 150 - #1250,
this doesn't give you a monitor however and you really need a multisync if you're
playing games - another 250 or so, hmm #1500 for a system with very few expansion
abilities left and only a 170Mb disk (although at least you've got a CD).
I suppose if you went for a 030/40 with no FPU or MMU you could knock a couple
of hundred pounds off this.
Of course, this leaves the A4000T looking way overpriced - an extra #700 just to get
a few slots and a crippled memory bus and you won't even get a monitor or CD in
the price.
It's hardly any wonder that when people can buy a SCSI based PC with fast graphics
card and more memory for less money they'll be tempted. AT really needs to either
overhaul its prices to increase sales or bring out a midrange machine and improve
the A1200 with the same or a lower price. The reason - without machine sales the
Amiga will die - no sales = no sw = no future. AT can stop this by shifting
machines, this may mean selling them at cost even for a while but they have to
increase the user base a lot, and price is the surefire way to do it.
Ken
--
Ken Powell - University of Exeter - Dept. of MSOR - k...@msor.ex.ac.uk
Mail me for a copy of the comp.sys.amiga.games FAQ
UNREGISTERED VERSION
>Yes, but I don't have the money to throw away on supporting a dying
>machine...If a million others did the same, then fine, but they won't...I
>*want* to have an Amiga rather than a PC, but if there are only a dozen
>games that use an expanded Amiga to its full potential, then I may as
>well bite the bullet and start using Windows <shudder>
People have said this for 3 or maybe 4 years now. The Amiga won't die in
MAAAANY years from now!
-- Rustybrain -- Sigop AMIGAvsPC at Global Issue (tlf.56599956) CALL NOW!
Geoff Adams
>>Escom have made a bit of a mess of things really, haven't they?
>
>
But, that was then, this is now.
Anyway, what could they have done differently? They got A1200's
in the shops by xmas. A good thing. They are a little pricey. A
bad thing, in fact they need to be at least 100 quid cheaper, but
then again could team17 bring out all it's s/w at 14.99 instead of
24.99? Maybe, maybe not, especially if you'd just had to start the
company from scratch.
Basically, the old range of AGA amiga's is dead. If you want to
support the Amiga still, get hold of an A4000, then you can chuck
in a PPC and gfxcard and hopefully have something of value left if
and when the new Power Amigas come out.
The Amiga will live on in the form of the OS running on any generic
PowerPC platform (IBM and Apple (SUN!) have an agreement to make
such a thing), as probably will Apples OS (it is now viewed as one
of Apples biggest mistakes not licensing it's OS to run on other
platforms, but who knows what would have happened if that had happened,
would the Intel PC ever have died?) There will be an Amiga badged
PowerPC platform.
In the long run these generic machines will beat the Intel PC, or at
least provide an alternative, as long as they are cheap. They could
be cheap if Sony get on the deal (although they were supposed to be
in cahoots with Intel developing a new home machine), or perhaps anyway
if enough companies start to make them. Intel PC's are cheap because
they are clones, PowerPC's will be cheap because they will be clones,
they have to be to survive.
Geoff./
--
Douglas Cuts
ESCOM aren't cheap, and maybe they aren't in abundance yet (here in North
America); but if they do what want (and do it the best!) and if you need it
now, then to Hell with the cost... I'll get what I need the most, TODAY!
(actually, I got most of it already =) Besides, even the PC's were "expensive"
when they first took off. I can hold my breath a little longer...
--
_-_ _-_
/ _\--/_ \ Doug Cuts
<-t, O O .j-> cu...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca
/ /()\ \
i n__n i just look for the Red Dog
i_/.__.\_j A4000/040 25Mhz 10MB 720HD EMPLANT CD32
James Stephen Bull
: : >Andy - all depressed now - I don't want to buy a PC <spit> :(
: : >
: : Well don't, if you like Amiga so much you'll pay a little extra for a
: : high spec machine. Without your support the Amiga will never pick up.
: : Ed
: I've heard this arguement lots of times with systems on the way out.
: Persuading an individual to buy a system will not save that system, but it will
: leave the individual having spent money on a dead duck.
It depends on your definition of a dead duck. Many people use their computer
for more than games. It is the reason that I bought a computer rather than a
console.I have spent money upgrading my machine and I am not worried about it
at all. My Amiga (1200 030/50/6) has to last me until I graduate (probably
longer) I don't see a problem with this, I can save Wordworth files as ascii
pop them on the PC to print out I can compile my work for my course using a
Freeware M2 compiler and this will not change even if no one in the entire
world uses an Amiga apart from me. You are right about one thing though
persuading people to buy something because _you_ want them to own it is not
generally a good idea, I personally use an Amiga because I like it and for no
other reason. I am not particularly fond of PCs so I don't use them, simple.
Is my games collection going to disappear when the Amiga finally goes out of
production ? No. Is my computer useful to me ? Yes.
Amiga, get one while you still can.
James Bull
Dobroslaw Krawczynski
>A.S.T....@ncl.ac.uk wrote:
I think that you really underestimate licensing of the technology. I
see this as a way for the Amiga to actually totally dominate the home
computer industry. Look at settop-boxes, soon most of them will have
amiga HW inthem, will be running Amigados, will be inexpensive, will
have access to a lot of online services maybe even to internet. The
people responsible are even discussing the possibility of cable
gamesplaying. Probably most cable operators will approach AT and
licence the HW and OS and well get a whole new userbase which could
consist of 100's of millions of people, after all most people have
TV's and very few have computers in comparison.
If AT would like to build a powerMac they wouldn't have to buy C= they
would just get a licence from Apple, would they?
>Gavan
>--
>email: G.M...@ee.qub.ac.uk | 'There can be only one!'
> or gmo...@nyx.cs.du.edu | - The Highlander
Dobroslaw Krawczynski
Jyrki Saarinen
> Now A1200s are ridiculously *expensive* when compared to PCs.
> eg In UK .. A1200 (400) + 50 Mhz 030 (180) + 4 meg fast (130) + low res
> monitor (200) + 850 meg HD (180) == 1090 quid!!!!!!!!!
God, does a 4MB SIMM really cost that much in UK?
-- _
a Stellar programmer _ //
"Amiga - back for the future" \X/
Gavan Moran
: If AT would like to build a powerMac they wouldn't have to buy C= they
: would just get a licence from Apple, would they?
I'm not sure you need to pay anyone to build a CHRP PPC machine .. I think
its an open standard and its just up to you to certify your machine works with
the standard.
The advantage of the Amiga name is marketability. It will look a hell of
a lot better having an Amiga name on your new PPC box than just the 'escom'
name. People perceive the Amiga as a friendly, powerful computer.
UNREGISTERED VERSION
>>And do you really mean that NON-AGA games too sell as little as 10000
>>copies? How many percent of these AB3D-sales are for the CD32-version?
>A top title in the days when the Amiga really was in the spotlight
>(say 2-3 years hence) then you could reasonably expect a Number 1 hit
>to sell 30-40K, yes. Ab3D has done around 11-12K, with 15% of these
>being on CD32.
If we only could turn back time, but not the standard specs. on the
machines...:-)
Anyway, do you except AB3D to sell much more now?
To me it seems that a lot of stores up here in norway have problems getting
enough of 'em. Most of them says they have ordered it, but haven't got it
yet...
>And remember 2-3 years ago, there was a *lot* of competition from
>other software houses (maybe 30-40 releases a month!).
I know.
Still, i hope Amiga CDrom could get a boost soon, with a A1200+ CD or maybe a
new "CD남"?
I may have told you this before, but I'm on of the leaders of a local
computerclub, and we have 2 CD남s and theire BLOODY POPULAR.
I don't belive that Playstations would be more popular on our club, as the
gameplay on many games sucks, and we wouldn't be able to afford many new games
(they cost much money!).
Now we will probably buy our third CD남 soon... :-) And of course a new Amiga
1200 or A1200+ if they become cheap soon!
Dobroslaw Krawczynski
>im...@pcbied.ott.aber.ac.uk (Ian Gledhill) wrote:
>|>
>|> In article <4ev3rv$4...@whitbeck.ncl.ac.uk> A.S.T....@ncl.ac.uk writes:
>There seems to be a surprising number of ncl based Amiga owners popping up
>on the group recently...what`s going on, and why wasn`t I told about it?
>|> >
>|> You're looking at this the wrong way. P.C.'s are all very well and good
>|> in as much as they can do professional software, but when it comes to
>|> games there's not as much as you'd think. Sure, there's some good releases
>|> around not on the Amiga, but is it worth the pain and hassle of using an
>|> inferior machine? Pentiums are fast, but they need to be to run anything
>|> decent in Windows. I use my Amiga 4000/30 for everything. I don't need
>|> to use a P.C. for anything.
>Let`s see now. I use my Amiga for programming, 2D/3D graphics work,
>games (Pinball Illusions, Worms, AB3D and F1GP mainly) and general
>stuff - writing letters with FW4, archiving data to HD floppy (that extra
>300KB per disk over the PC makes a *lot* of difference).
Well that's nice for you but FW is a worthless piece of code for me!
Why, because i live in Sweden and english spelling and hyphenation are
as good to me as cancer. If you live in the VERY FEW countries where
English is a official language you're well provided for but there are
other languages, even in Europe. There is not one decent WP in Swedish
so obviously you can't use your amiga at work if you have to do some
writing(and most often that is what computers are used for!)..
This is not a personal acusation against you, it's just a pointer to
the invalidity of your argument. I pissed of because the amiga will
NEVER sell well unless it becomes TRULY localized.
Games are fine, though.
>OTOH, I use my PC for University work and, most importantly, flight sims.
>Most of the time I don`t go near Windows. If it wasn`t for flight sims,
>I wouldn`t need a PC at home either.
I use a PC at the uni. and that's about it. I really don't like the
feel of this machine but that's a personal opinion.
>|> Remember, the grass on the other side of the fence is always greener..
>So, buy both bits of grass...
>|>
>|> > Escom have made a bit of a mess of things really, haven't they?
>|>
>|> Give them a chance! They've had less than a year to sort this out.
>|> If they actually did any advertising, they'd do much better, though....
>Yeah, lets wait until the end of this year before making any critical
>judgements about AT. As for adverts, I hope they don`t use the same
>people that did the C= ads.....just thinking about them makes me
>want to vent my digestive system in a rather unpleasant manner :-)
Absolutely right, after all getting an old machine like the 1200 to
even sell is a major achievement. Do they actually have ANY ads
whatsoever? That would really be stupid. The machine they have to
promote is the not yet released 1200+ and PPC. Right now they really
should concentrate on getting together a GOOD retailing chain to
provide their products to the public. they should educate and motivate
the retailers and their staff in some way!
>Regards
>Chris
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Chris Coulson | A4000-060/CV64 - 20MB/530MB
>Robotics Postgraduate | Pentium60 - 16MB/1.4GB/CDROM
>University of Newcastle upon Tyne | A500 - 1MB
> | Sinclair Spectrum - 48KB
>E-Mail: | Sinclair ZX81 - 1KB
>c.j.c...@ncl.ac.uk | "The times are a'changing..."
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Dobroslaw Krawczynski
UNREGISTERED VERSION
>What makes it worse is that a lot of this is true.
>*currently* with the bog standardo A1200 being too underpowered and there
>being very few releases for it, much less good releases.....
>Bring in the undertakers....
Don't tell me you could get anything even close to Final Writer 4, Wordworth
5, Final Calc, Final Data, Organiser, Imagine 4.0, Octamed 6 in 1993.
There has been LOTS of development, even though Commodore went bust.
The PC on the other side, still sucks just as much. Most people will rather
run DOS (even thoughs it hard for most people, it WORKS!), instead of Win95
(cause it simply sucks). And still the machine haven't got all the important
programs, like a GOOD Dpaintclone, a GOOD tracker (fasttracker is the closest
candidate to this...) and more important a GOOD OS! :-)
>It certainly isn't worth upgrading an Amiga system to be able to run newer
>more demanding games, as just for the hardware cost you can get a similar
>specced pc(spit) with vastly more s/w / cheaper hardware etc etc..
You don't seem to like PCs. Still you say you can get a PC with much
more/bettter hardware than the A1200 for the same price.
Why don't you just buy a pc and sell your Amiga then?
Probably because of the users, the OS and some GREAT programs. Then, why is
the PC better?
I think it's much better having to run WB1.3 on a A500 than Win95 on a
Pentium. Even though the machine doesn't have the same specs...
>However ESCOM is a large German company built up by this bloke that's either
>the luckiest buisnessman alive or knows what he is doing.
>I don't want to write off the Amiga yet. The A1200 probably but not the
>Amiga, not yet.
The A1200 is an excellent machine, if it were bundled with a reasonably sized
3,5"HD (540 MB +++), 4 MB of RAM and a 030/50 MHZ prosessor it could be even
better...
>I suspect ESCOM might very probably come up with something very good.
>(RISC POWER-Amiga?) probably sooner than later.
>Would ESCOM have invested their millions solely for the Commodore brandname
>so they could stick it to the front of PC's? I think not.
I agree. And more importantly, would they even care to make a whole company
(AT) to make, sell and develope the Amigas?
Geoff Adams
>
> In 4 months time theres a lot more software that will run well on a 486/66
>than there is on an Amiga. Most new Amiga games are crap, only a few choice
>ones are any good and the quantity of new releases is miniscule. Its unlikely
>there will ever be more than 4 or 5 games than really push the power in an
>A1200. Its over.....
It's over for the A1200, but I don't recommend selling and getting a PC, you'll
lose just as much money. There may be all these exciting PowerPC machines
round the corner (which won't just run Amiga OS, but also Apple OS etc).
Today is a bad time to invest in any computer equipment really, in a year things
will be much clearer. My advice to Gavin is to get an A4000/030, more future
proof than an acclerated A1200, and a much better way of spending a bit of
extra money on improving your machine.
Geoff./
---
C.J Coulson
|>
|> > Now A1200s are ridiculously *expensive* when compared to PCs.
|> > eg In UK .. A1200 (400) + 50 Mhz 030 (180) + 4 meg fast (130) + low res
|> > monitor (200) + 850 meg HD (180) == 1090 quid!!!!!!!!!
|>
|> God, does a 4MB SIMM really cost that much in UK?
No. SIMMs are 100 UKP per 4MB, up to 16MB SIMMs. I don`t
know about 32MB and beyond.
Of course, if you spend all your life reading the ads in those telephone
book sized PC mags, you could probably save a bit more.
So, how cheap are they in Finland then?
Defender
: E.T....@ncl.ac.uk politely replied:
: >Well don't, if you like Amiga so much you'll pay a little extra for a
: >high spec machine. Without your support the Amiga will never pick up.
: Yes, but I don't have the money to throw away on supporting a dying
: machine...If a million others did the same, then fine, but they won't...I
Well I am a student and did not have the money to throw on a accelerator but
I did save alot and buy one. At no stage did I take the attitude which you
imply on yourself. Everyone should look to get an accelerator at some stage,
games like breathless and gloom are so much more enjoyable.
: *want* to have an Amiga rather than a PC, but if there are only a dozen
: games that use an expanded Amiga to its full potential, then I may as
: well bite the bullet and start using Windows <shudder>
The number of programs that use higher spec Amigas is becoming staggering,
the Amiga is not the dying beast that people cry out for all the time.
Even though I live in Australia the demand is huge, the shop that I
originally bought the Ami off rang me and asked whether I wanted to see it
to someone else. Now that the A1200 is at least the base machine, there
is some future in the Amiga. Gawd, alot of my PC owning friends are
disgusted with what their computer can do and they have pentiums!
A friend of mine who bought a PC after years of using a A500 has turned into
a dribbling little twerp who throws cash at his computer like it is a god.
Please, I don't think I would like to see another human like that! :')
: Not that I'll be buying one before I graduate...no point since I have Net
: access for free at Uni, and besides, imagine what price Pentium Pros will
: be in two and a half years time...<drool>
Actually you will find that Pentium prices are starting to bottom out, the
cost of materials for a pentium is phenominal.
: Escom have made a bit of a mess of things really, haven't they?
NOt really, they did the one thing that is most important right, they got
new amigas out and tat alone says the Amiga is still alive!
: Andy
Andrew
--
'Sheridan, Learn!' - Ambassador Kosh (In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum.)
____
A1200 - 030 / / / INSANE SOFTWARE(C) 1995
28Mhz ____/ / / web page: http://yallara.cs.rmit.edu.au/~s9507564
\ \/\/ / Programmer of Screech Demo - ########## 100% complete
\/\/\/ Full Release Com - ######.............. 33% complete
UNREGISTERED VERSION
>: packs... !st Computer centre, leeds , UK for example.
>All of the prices I've seen are the same. There's also the fact that
>anybody in NA doesn't have many options when it comes to actually
>finding a place where they can buy an Amiga...
>Incidentally, I *AM* still using my 4000 and I do like it (although
>it has some rather serious problems) and I don't plan on selling it
>any time soon. However, if I was going out to buy a new computer
>today you can be sure that I wouldn't be foolish enough to pay several
>hundred dollars extra for a very under-powered machine with little
>to no support...
No support? When you have a PC, you have to call those f***** expensive
telephonenumbers all the time (1£ a minute :-)), cause there is no users who
have competance, they just use it as a games machine.
And no, you still can't get a good paintingprogram like Dpaint, Ppaint etc.
on the PC. Why? There MUST be a market for it so WHY?
Cause PCs sucks!
Rich Crozier
> I'm satisfied with my Amiga, and it does all I want it to do, at a decent
> price too (ie, the software). If people want to play games all the time, go
Ditto. Though if anyone has a spare Blizzard 030 they don't want... ;)
> but the Ultra 64 when it comes out. Now that'll have *cool* games on it ;-)
Yes, and at 80 quid a blast! Though I have to admit Mario64 looks
just *heavenly*!! :)
Linking-up is one of the most appealing aspects of a game to me, and
with s/w houses moving into 'net link-up territory I think we can
safely say BT's profits are due for (yet) another rise! Knowing that
you're playing against (or alongside) other people adds an extra
dimension to any game.
24-bit colour and 16-bit sound are all well and good but at the end of
the day there's only one thing that counts: that elusive, essential
ingrediant that Ultimate seemed to have bottles of...playability.
Rich
--
______ __ __ __ _____ __ ______ _ __
/ ___// // \/ /\ / __// //_ __/|_|/_/\
_\_ \ / // / / / /_ / / \/ /\_\`/ /\\/
/_____//_//_/\__/ / /____//_/ //_/ / /_/ /
\_____\\_\\_\/\_\/ \____\\_\/ \_\/ \_\/
Marc Forrester
> : : games. Not to mention two excellent free unix clones.
>
> : That point evades me. They're also available on the Amiga.
>
> Are the Amiga ports of Linux and freeBSD as well developed and
> supported on the Amiga as they are on the PC?
You miss a fundamental point, the IBM -needs- Linux to replace
DOS and turn it into a real computer. You're saying your computer
with it's broken leg has shinier crutches than our healthy one. :P
Christopher Dew
PC I would have been able to have afforded (because I looked into it at
the time) was a 386-SX25 with monoVGA monitor, 256K graphics card, 4Mb ram
and 100Mb harddisk. Obviously if I had bought the PC, everything except
the case (and floppy drive) would have had to have been upgraded by now.
Amigas *were* good value for money, but if I were given £1000 and told to
buy a computer, it would be a PC. (With linux or something instead of
windows.)
The Amiga has a few remaining users, who have not *yet* been overwhelmed
by the PCs cheapness, but they need a fast Amiga soon, if they are to
remain with the platform.
Hoping for a PPC Amiga at £500 with HDD, or Workbench for PowerMac or x86
architecture.
--
____________
/\ _________\ Christopher Dew
\ \ \______ /
\ \ \ / / / e-mail: ph3...@bristol.ac.uk
\ \ \/ / / web: http://irix.bris.ac.uk/~ph3037/
\ \/ / / //
\ / / \\// A1200, 28MHz `020, 2+4Mb RAM, HDD,
\/_/ \/ SCSI2, CDROM, Multisync Monitor, etc.
NIGEL HUGHES
>
> Don't tell me you could get anything even close to Final Writer 4, Wordworth
> 5, Final Calc, Final Data, Organiser, Imagine 4.0, Octamed 6 in 1993.
> There has been LOTS of development, even though Commodore went bust.
Absolutely true. There is plenty of excellent serious software in development,
and on the shelves.
> The PC on the other side, still sucks just as much. Most people will rather
> run DOS (even thoughs it hard for most people, it WORKS!), instead of Win95
> (cause it simply sucks). And still the machine haven't got all the important
> programs, like a GOOD Dpaintclone, a GOOD tracker (fasttracker is the closest
> candidate to this...) and more important a GOOD OS! :-)
You are a tiring person aren't you? Win95 is an excellent OS, I still happen
to think WB is better, but then again I have been using Amigas for eight years.
I haven't had it crash in over 2 months of use, even when I am developing
games software in it, that crashes in VERY system unfriendly ways. I really
do wish I could say the same for WB. I've already covered the Dpaint issue,
and I personally don't have any need for a good tracker. Although people
who do will obviously find it an important consideration.
> >It certainly isn't worth upgrading an Amiga system to be able to run newer
> >more demanding games, as just for the hardware cost you can get a similar
> >specced pc(spit) with vastly more s/w / cheaper hardware etc etc..
>
> You don't seem to like PCs. Still you say you can get a PC with much
> more/bettter hardware than the A1200 for the same price.
> Why don't you just buy a pc and sell your Amiga then?
> Probably because of the users, the OS and some GREAT programs. Then, why is
> the PC better?
> I think it's much better having to run WB1.3 on a A500 than Win95 on a
> Pentium. Even though the machine doesn't have the same specs...
Then you are very silly indeed.
> >However ESCOM is a large German company built up by this bloke that's either
> >the luckiest buisnessman alive or knows what he is doing.
> >I don't want to write off the Amiga yet. The A1200 probably but not the
> >Amiga, not yet.
>
> The A1200 is an excellent machine, if it were bundled with a reasonably sized
> 3,5"HD (540 MB +++), 4 MB of RAM and a 030/50 MHZ prosessor it could be even
> better...
I agree. However, an 030 machine is not pre-packed, in Dixons and local
independants across the country yet. Until it is, you are not drawing a
valid comparison.
Nigel Hughes
NIGEL HUGHES
> =
> No support? When you have a PC, you have to call those f***** expensive
> telephonenumbers all the time (1=A3 a minute :-)), cause there is no user=
s who
> have competance, they just use it as a games machine.
Presumably opposed to wonderfully intelligent users of Amigas like yourself=
=2E
As Yoda might say "Life, Get One You Must". I have had no trouble contactin=
g
intelligent and helpful PC owners who are just like _most_ Amiga owners.
> And no, you still can't get a good paintingprogram like Dpaint, Ppaint et=
c.
> on the PC. Why? There MUST be a market for it so WHY?
> Cause PCs sucks!
Well, as you should know, you have been able to get DPaint on the PC years.=
However it is a little dated. I would instead recommend getting the excelle=
nt
PaintShop Pro. Although this package still does not touch Dpaint, Brillianc=
e or
PPaint (why did I buy 3 paint packages? Well one just did not seem enough).=
I find my PC and Amiga work together in perfect synergy, one does what the =
other
can't, and vice-versa.
Nigel Hughes - A serious _computer_ user.
S.C. Smith
years now, and yes, some games on the PC are quite cool, but how many people
with PC's do you know that have had them for 4 years, and haven't needed to
get a newer model because it's *out of date*?
price too (ie, the software). If people want to play games all the time, go
Simon
Gavan Moran
Not true, MSDOS/Windows is just one of a number of well developed OSs
that you can run on a PC. You've got DOS/Win, Win95, WinNT, Linux, freeBSD
and OS/2. All of these are fully functional well developed OSs.
Crap though DOS and Windows may be, you can still play more games and
better games with them than we're seeing now on the Amiga. And for commercial
use nothing can top the range of software for that platform either. That you
have the choice of all the other OSs is icing on the cake.
And its not like Linux or freeBSD cost anything extra so you've got nothing
to loose.
tomeeee
>A.S.T....@ncl.ac.uk wrote:
>: Martyn...@team17.com (Martyn Brown) wrote:
>into an ESCOM shop and buy a _complete_ 486/66 system (ie with monitor) for
>around 650 quid! Given we are likely to see so few Amiga games, never mind
>games that support fast CPUs it just doesn't make sense to splash out on
>new Amiga gear. The platform is effectively dead.
>Gavan
Well thats your opinion,get a 486 and you'll be truly disapointed with
it,better off getting a pentium.Even 486's are to slow for the new games
today on the pc.I have used a pentium 75mhz and it is really fast at some
things but slow at other.It still doesn't multi-task as smooth as my 030
A1200 .
Jyrki Saarinen
> So, how cheap are they in Finland then?
Hmm. A 4MB SIMM is about 550FIM (which is ~80 pounds if I recall
correctly that one pound is ~6.8 FIM)
Paul Dossett
>>What makes it worse is that a lot of this is true.
>>*currently* with the bog standardo A1200 being too underpowered and there
>>being very few releases for it, much less good releases.....
>>Bring in the undertakers....
>Don't tell me you could get anything even close to Final Writer 4, Wordworth
>5, Final Calc, Final Data, Organiser, Imagine 4.0, Octamed 6 in 1993.
How many of those programs will run on a standard 1200, let alone *well*?
Scrub Final Writer, scrub Wordworth (possibly?), scrub Imagine.
Using the rest of these programs without a hard drive is a bad joke.
>There has been LOTS of development, even though Commodore went bust.
>The PC on the other side, still sucks just as much. Most people will rather
>run DOS (even thoughs it hard for most people, it WORKS!), instead of Win95
>(cause it simply sucks). And still the machine haven't got all the important
W95 sucks IYO. Most PC owners, and even many Amiga owners have no real
problems with it. Yes, they'd prefer it use less memory and be faster, but
don't we have the same cries about MUI?
>programs, like a GOOD Dpaintclone, a GOOD tracker (fasttracker is the closest
>candidate to this...) and more important a GOOD OS! :-)
DPaint isn't the be all and end all of paint programs, even on the Amiga!
Where is Photoshop for the Amiga? I know the PC has it. Hmm.. a good tracker
program? I bet the average PC owner is just *champing* at the bit for that!
And what PC owners don't know (regarding good OSs) won't hurt them. After
all, without software, a great OS is just a bunch of windows and icons.
>>It certainly isn't worth upgrading an Amiga system to be able to run newer
>>more demanding games, as just for the hardware cost you can get a similar
>>specced pc(spit) with vastly more s/w / cheaper hardware etc etc..
>You don't seem to like PCs. Still you say you can get a PC with much
>more/bettter hardware than the A1200 for the same price.
>Why don't you just buy a pc and sell your Amiga then?
I think he's referring to new owners and people on the fence rather than us
demented folk!
>Probably because of the users, the OS and some GREAT programs. Then, why is
>the PC better?
Because the software is there, the hype is there and the money is there.
>I think it's much better having to run WB1.3 on a A500 than Win95 on a
>Pentium. Even though the machine doesn't have the same specs...
God, would you? Why? With UAE you could almost emulate the A500 on the
Pentium. And what can a 500 do these days, apart from a few old games and a
bit of undemanding comms work? And don't say 'what about DTP, and raytracing,
etc?' - I'm talking about a useable system, not something that takes an hour
for a quickrender.
>>However ESCOM is a large German company built up by this bloke that's either
>>the luckiest buisnessman alive or knows what he is doing. I don't want to
>>write off the Amiga yet. The A1200 probably but not the Amiga, not yet.
>The A1200 is an excellent machine, if it were bundled with a reasonably sized
>3,5"HD (540 MB +++), 4 MB of RAM and a 030/50 MHZ prosessor it could be even
>better...
The A1200 is pretty much dead. An expanded one with an 030/50 and extra RAM,
plus a HD and CD-ROM is okay for a beginners system, but it's still costing
more than a 486, and does far less for the average punter (IMHO).
>>I suspect ESCOM might very probably come up with something very good.
>>(RISC POWER-Amiga?) probably sooner than later.
>>Would ESCOM have invested their millions solely for the Commodore brandname
>>so they could stick it to the front of PC's? I think not.
>I agree. And more importantly, would they even care to make a whole company
>(AT) to make, sell and develope the Amigas?
I really hope not. I hope they have the brains to make the 1200 replacement
truly expandable, I hope they make the PowerAmigas affordable, I hope they
advertise them, but right now, I'm just waiting. Pentiums are about to break
the £500 mark - give them 6 months.
>-- Rustybrain -- Sigop AMIGAvsPC at Global Issue (tlf.56599956) CALL NOW!
--
Paul Dossett | Yamaha, Epiphone, Pearl, Paiste | Amiga 2000/040/21/365/3.1 __
-------------| Bubble Bobble Deluxe Dvlp. Team | Amiga CD32/020/2/CD/3.1__///
boo! : astr...@netspace.net.au.. | '76 Toyota Corolla 1.2 \XX/
Jyrki Saarinen
> You are a tiring person aren't you? Win95 is an excellent OS, I still
Win95 is not an OS.
UNREGISTERED VERSION
>you're into 150 mHz pentium pro territory with 32 megs ram, 4 gig discs -
>the works. Are you honestly saying the Amiga can match those PCs as a
>unix box?
> Plus of course theres the gfx card issue - the A1200 has a dearth of high
>quality hi-res output solutions, the A4000/3000 have some but they are way
>overpriced compared to exactly the same chipsets on a PCI card. The Amiga
>simply does not make sense as a unix box. PCs do that so much better.
>Another reason why my Amiga will not be seeing further hardware expenditure.
The Power Amiga will probably have standard PCI slots...:-)
> By the way - has anyone seen Duke Nukem 3D on the PC yet? Its totally
>awesome and blows Doom2 clean away. This at a time when it looks like the
>Amiga has finally managed to produce a decent Doom game - the standard is
>suddenly raised massively.
> The Amiga _could_ have been the top system. It was an inherently better
>designed machine - much better OS, better hardware design, great custom
>chipset etc, but under the dead hand of commodore it was left undeveloped
>whilst the PC surged ahead. Now its just too late for ESCOM to pick up the
>pieces.
Nah...bullshit! The Amiga still kicks ass in most fields...:-)
BTW, AB3D 2 will raise the standards even more...i think!
UNREGISTERED VERSION
>> run DOS (even thoughs it hard for most people, it WORKS!), instead of Win95
>> (cause it simply sucks). And still the machine haven't got all the
>> the closest candidate to this...) and more important a GOOD OS! :-)
>to think WB is better, but then again I have been using Amigas for eight
>years. I haven't had it crash in over 2 months of use, even when I am
>developing games software in it, that crashes in VERY system unfriendly ways.
>I really do wish I could say the same for WB. I've already covered the Dpaint
>issue, and I personally don't have any need for a good tracker. Although
>people who do will obviously find it an important consideration.
Win 95 is NOT a good OS! OS/2 is about as good as WB2.0 or something and Win95
is about as good as Geos...at least that's for my use...
>> You don't seem to like PCs. Still you say you can get a PC with much
>> more/bettter hardware than the A1200 for the same price.
>> Why don't you just buy a pc and sell your Amiga then?
>> Probably because of the users, the OS and some GREAT programs. Then, why is
>> the PC better? I think it's much better having to run WB1.3 on a A500 than
>> Win95 on a Pentium. Even though the machine doesn't have the same specs...
>Then you are very silly indeed.
Well, i've tried both and that's my opinion.
UNREGISTERED VERSION
>>5, Final Calc, Final Data, Organiser, Imagine 4.0, Octamed 6 in 1993.
>How many of those programs will run on a standard 1200, let alone *well*?
Final writer 4 will not run, but there is a spesial edition anyway that WILL
run on a standardmachine...Wordworth 5 will probably also come in a spesial
edition, Final Calc will run, Final data will run, Organiser will run, Imagine
4.0 will run with one or two megz of extra ram and Octamed will of course run
on it...
>Scrub Final Writer, scrub Wordworth (possibly?), scrub Imagine.
>Using the rest of these programs without a hard drive is a bad joke.
People who buy machines without harddrive without any plans to
upgrade are either just a bad joke, or more common, they don't know what their
missing...
>W95 sucks IYO. Most PC owners, and even many Amiga owners have no real
>problems with it. Yes, they'd prefer it use less memory and be faster, but
>don't we have the same cries about MUI?
Mui doesn't require much, MUIprograms is pretty nice on my Blizzard 1220.
Anyway, most Amigaprograms are NOT MUIprograms...
>>programs, like a GOOD Dpaintclone, a GOOD tracker (fasttracker is the
>>closest candidate to this...) and more important a GOOD OS! :-)
>DPaint isn't the be all and end all of paint programs, even on the Amiga!
>Where is Photoshop for the Amiga? I know the PC has it. Hmm.. a good
>tracker program? I bet the average PC owner is just *champing* at the bit
>for that!
Photoshop? Shapeshifter????? :-)
>And what PC owners don't know (regarding good OSs) won't hurt them. After
>all, without software, a great OS is just a bunch of windows and icons.
How can you make good software if the OS ruins it? Final writer wouldn't be
too nice on Geos (C64) would it??
And the Amiga have good software anyway...
>>Probably because of the users, the OS and some GREAT programs. Then, why is
>>the PC better?
>Because the software is there, the hype is there and the money is there.
The software is on my HD too, and i have an Amiga. Hype, well i don't care,
the machine isn't any worse because of less advertising. Even though it could
be MUCH better WITH advertising. The money? Well, i'm no programmer, so i
don't care. But of course, i DO BUY good programs/games.
And a lot of PDprograms is nice too.
>>I think it's much better having to run WB1.3 on a A500 than Win95 on a
>>Pentium. Even though the machine doesn't have the same specs...
>God, would you? Why? With UAE you could almost emulate the A500 on the
>Pentium. And what can a 500 do these days, apart from a few old games and a
>bit of undemanding comms work? And don't say 'what about DTP, and
>raytracing, etc?' - I'm talking about a useable system, not something that
>takes an hour for a quickrender.
I like those old games.
>>3,5"HD (540 MB +++), 4 MB of RAM and a 030/50 MHZ prosessor it could be even
>>better...
>The A1200 is pretty much dead. An expanded one with an 030/50 and extra RAM,
>plus a HD and CD-ROM is okay for a beginners system, but it's still costing
>more than a 486, and does far less for the average punter (IMHO).
An A1200/030-50/540MB 3,5"HD/2MBchip+2MBfast could easily been sold for
500£ i think, now the problem is that we'll have to pay for a stupid
expansion card when the prossesor could have been on the motherboard etc...
>>>Would ESCOM have invested their millions solely for the Commodore brandname
>>>so they could stick it to the front of PC's? I think not.
>>I agree. And more importantly, would they even care to make a whole company
>>(AT) to make, sell and develope the Amigas?
>I really hope not. I hope they have the brains to make the 1200 replacement
>truly expandable, I hope they make the PowerAmigas affordable, I hope they
>advertise them, but right now, I'm just waiting. Pentiums are about to break
>the £500 mark - give them 6 months.
I don't think so - the Pentium motherboards seems to be very expensive, and
before the Pentium PRO comes out, i don't think they will be as cheap as the
486s are today...
>>-- Rustybrain -- Sigop AMIGAvsPC at Global Issue (tlf.56599956) CALL NOW!
>--
>Paul Dossett | Yamaha, Epiphone, Pearl, Paiste | Amiga 2000/040/21/365/3.1 __
>-------------| Bubble Bobble Deluxe Dvlp. Team | Amiga CD32/020/2/CD/3.1__///
> boo! : astr...@netspace.net.au.. | '76 Toyota Corolla 1.2 \XX/
-- Rustybrain -- Sigop AMIGAvsPC at Global Issue (tlf.56599956) CALL NOW!
Ken Powell
>eh? WHERE can you get a pentium for 350 UKP ?
>
>as for Linux box, my A1200 50/030/882 makes a very nice Linux system too
>- yes, you CAN run Linux very nicely on an Amiga too.
>
Well, you can get a 486/66 for #600 inc VAT and that gives you 4Mb, a monitor and
a 0.5gig HD. Comapre with #470 for an A1200HD with 2Mb no monitor and 170Mb HD
and it would be easy for most punters to think the PC is better value. And to
upgrade a 1200 to run Linux/NetBSD reasonably fast is pretty expensive (impossible
for colour X).
Amigas have by far the best OS but there HW is also seriously overpriced (or more
acurately outdated). If they could do a 4000/60 for #12-1300 then I would think
the Amiga would take off, have a top end w/8Mb, CD and monitor for #2000 and a
bottom end w/030 processor and 1Mb Fast for #5-600 and keep a bare bones 1200
around for kiosk displays with no packs and a HD for #3-400. That seems like
a reasonable line up (and most machines would be the 4000 so unit costs would
fall - just 2 processor cards to make).
Ken
--
Ken Powell - University of Exeter - Dept. of MSOR - k...@msor.ex.ac.uk
Mail me for a copy of the comp.sys.amiga.games FAQ
Ken Powell
>
>> Now A1200s are ridiculously *expensive* when compared to PCs.
>> eg In UK .. A1200 (400) + 50 Mhz 030 (180) + 4 meg fast (130) + low res
>> monitor (200) + 850 meg HD (180) == 1090 quid!!!!!!!!!
>
>God, does a 4MB SIMM really cost that much in UK?
Well, it does for a 60ns one, I got the wrong ad of course (always happens),
you can pick up 70ns ones for about #100 inc VAT - cheapest I've seen is #95
in a clone mag.
NIGEL HUGHES
>
> > You are a tiring person aren't you? Win95 is an excellent OS, I still
>
What are you like? Of course it is.
Nigel
Chris
There's already been a long winded argument about this in csa.advocacy
(possible somewhere else) - it *possible* ended up that Win95 WASN'T an OS -
although it has atleast some of the features of an OS.... Basically you can
argue either way sll you want; there's even a book arguing that Win95 is an OS
(so I read).
I personally don't think Win95 is an OS, but that's a tad iffy as I don't have
enough technical expertise to back that up much :( .
--
From Christopher Handley
Email: ela9...@sheffield.ac.uk
-------------------------------------------------------sig v2.05 A---------
//Amiga A1200/`030/40MHz/4MbFast | "Amiga - Back to KickAss!" ;)
\\/ + PowerStation (SCSI Hd & CD drive)|AB3D II,Virtual Rally,Star Fighter
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Dodd
> I already have an 030/28 and HD - so the difference isn't going to be
>that great. And a 486/100 will run games as fast as a P60. I can get
>a complete 486/100 system with PCI and SCSI for 800 quid - thats only 300
>more than it would cost to boost my A1200. And its an order of magnitude
>more powerful with infinitely more software available, and more 'power'
>games. Not to mention two excellent free unix clones.
>Gavan
>--
>email: G.M...@ee.qub.ac.uk | 'There can be only one!'
> or gmo...@nyx.cs.du.edu | - The Highlander
Err, it will not run as fast. I ran two exact models side by side.
Both had the same amount of RAM and same HD size.
P5 definitely is faster. IN simple games like doom, the pentium is
overkill, and in games like magic carpet ii or better, the pentium was
noticeably faster and smoother.
Over here in Japan no one sells p5-60s any more, anyway. I am peeved
that even 75s are being phased out here.
Chris
Chris Dodd
cd...@super.win.or.jp
Passing my senior year at Waseda University in Japan.
Andreas Keirat
folgenden Text unter dem Betreff "Re: PC vs Amiga (was Re: Alien Breed 3D & Worms, selling gooooood)" zu erzeugen:
SS> Just to put my pennies worth, my Amiga has kept me very happy for nearly 4
SS> years now, and yes, some games on the PC are quite cool, but how many people
SS> with PC's do you know that have had them for 4 years, and haven't needed to
SS> get a newer model because it's *out of date*?
I have PCs and Amigas for several years (PC - 3 years, Amiga since 1988)
I *HAD* to upgrade several times on the Amiga system (A1000 - A500 -
Acelleration card with fastmem & harddisk - A3000 - a4000) in order to
work with it the way I do it now (scannings, gfx conversion).
In that time I just changed my PC for 2 times from 386 SX16 (got it for a
budget price) to 486/25 and last winter 486/100. The last update costed
100 $ (just removing the CPU), 1 new graphics card 200$ (I just blew up my
old one, else I still would have the old ET4000-1MB).
I respect people using the Amiga (since I also use it to read mail or to
scan some pictures (my scanning software was 1500 $ once 8( )), but dont
blame PC users for upgrading permanently. The average user wont upgrade if a
new chip is launched ! Only freaks might do that (aswell as on an Amiga).
MfG,
Andreas
A4040-10MB-345MB-CDRom-Zyxel Modem-A4 Scanner...
Andreas Keirat
folgenden Text unter dem Betreff "Re: Alien Breed 3D & Worms, selling gooooood" zu erzeugen:
UV>
UV> No support? When you have a PC, you have to call those f***** expensive
UV> telephonenumbers all the time (1£ a minute :-)), cause there is no users who
UV> have competance, they just use it as a games machine.
UV> And no, you still can't get a good paintingprogram like Dpaint, Ppaint etc.
UV> on the PC. Why? There MUST be a market for it so WHY?
There are several good painting programs for the PC (OS/2 & Windows (95)),
all of them shareware. They havent got all functions of DPaint 5 (Amiga),
but who the f*ck needs the rotating and squeeze-options ?!?!? If you need
those, you will load your pictures in Photoshop or sth similar and do it
there. Do you really think, people are painting pictures on another platform
and then convert them to the PC ???? (most of them wont do it! Some use a
Mac).
UV> Cause PCs sucks!
It still depends on what you are doing 8) Amiga still sucks much more when
it comes to word processors (Final Writer is still crap to work with if you
have to write articles which are scientific related !!). 8)))))))
Christer Bjarnemo
>Jyrki Saarinen wrote:
>> Win95 is not an OS.
>What are you like? Of course it is.
...No, it's _A_ curse! ;)
--
Christer...@mailbox.swipnet.se - Bubble Bobble Deluxe Betatester ;)
--
Laurie Knight
>In article <3823...@kone.fipnet.fi>, "Jyrki Saarinen"
><jsaa...@kone.fipnet.fi> writes:
>>
>>> Now A1200s are ridiculously *expensive* when compared to PCs.
>>> eg In UK .. A1200 (400) + 50 Mhz 030 (180) + 4 meg fast (130) + low res
>>> monitor (200) + 850 meg HD (180) == 1090 quid!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>God, does a 4MB SIMM really cost that much in UK?
>Well, it does for a 60ns one, I got the wrong ad of course (always happens),
>you can pick up 70ns ones for about #100 inc VAT - cheapest I've seen is #95
>in a clone mag.
>Ken
NO! 4mb 70ns 72pin 32bit (no parity) simms can be had for 50ukp (+vat),
8mb same spec for 120+vat and 16mb for 210+vat... I have been quoted these
figures in the last week.
Laurie
--
Laurie Knight \ Amiga A3000, Kickstart3.1, 10Mb Ram, 1Gb Scsi HD
\ Picasso2, Opalvision, Microvitec 1440, USRSportster...
All general statements are false.
UNREGISTERED VERSION
Don't say that to him, he might get sad when he hear that his favorite
dinosaur of a 80 mb big program isn't a OS...
Hans-Joerg Frieden
: Scrub Final Writer, scrub Wordworth (possibly?), scrub Imagine.
: Using the rest of these programs without a hard drive is a bad joke.
drives are _essential_.
Please, move there fruitless Amiga-PC wars to advocacy or even better
move them to TRASHCAN... I really can't hear it anymore.
Regards, Hans-Joerg.
--
Hans-Joerg Frieden Schloss-Strasse 176 54293 Trier Germany
Private Mail to hfri...@fix.uni-trier.de
HiWi at University of Trier, Germany
Any Opinion expressed is completely my own, not those of my employers.
NIGEL HUGHES
>
> >>You are a tiring person aren't you? Win95 is an excellent OS, I still
> >Win95 is not an OS.
>
> Don't say that to him, he might get sad when he hear that his favorite
> dinosaur of a 80 mb big program isn't a OS...
80Mb big huh? Wow, and I thought I only had 8Mb memory!
I am seriously tiring of this child. I am a commited Amiga developer with
2 major releases on the way. I was simply pointing out that you're infantile
and blinkered attitude is the same as CBM's. They also seemed to believe the
machine they currently had on the market would last forever as it stood.
We all know how that story ended.
Amiga fans need to look at other machines, see what they do better, see how
they work and be a little more mature about their machine. AT need to do the
same, and they need to listen to Amiga users (their market after all).
I am in total support of people who do not want to sell their Amigas, our
next two releases are on the AMiga, and only one of them is being ported to
the PC.
However, "Rustybrain", it's time to grow up. Stop exagerating,or shut-up.
Long live the Amiga, long live variety.
Nigel
john enger
: >In article <3823...@kone.fipnet.fi>, "Jyrki Saarinen"
: ><jsaa...@kone.fipnet.fi> writes:
: >>
: >>> Now A1200s are ridiculously *expensive* when compared to PCs.
: >>> eg In UK .. A1200 (400) + 50 Mhz 030 (180) + 4 meg fast (130) + low res
: >>> monitor (200) + 850 meg HD (180) == 1090 quid!!!!!!!!!
: >>
: >>God, does a 4MB SIMM really cost that much in UK?
: >Well, it does for a 60ns one, I got the wrong ad of course (always happens),
: >you can pick up 70ns ones for about #100 inc VAT - cheapest I've seen is #95
: >in a clone mag.
: >Ken
: NO! 4mb 70ns 72pin 32bit (no parity) simms can be had for 50ukp (+vat),
: 8mb same spec for 120+vat and 16mb for 210+vat... I have been quoted these
: figures in the last week.
: Laurie
WHAT?!! 4Mb *32 bit, 72pin* SIMMs for fifty quid?!! They've been nicked then,
no two ways about it. Even dealers pay more than that!
========================= john....@bbsrc.ac.uk =====================///===
A1200, 40 Mhz '030, 2+4Mb RAM, 80Mb HD, 1960 MSync Monitor. ///
-------------------------------------------------------------------\XX/-----
Andreas Keirat
folgenden Text unter dem Betreff "Re: Alien Breed 3D & Worms, selling gooooood [Win95 an OS? Naaaa!]" zu erzeugen:
Ch> >>
Ch> >> > You are a tiring person aren't you? Win95 is an excellent OS, I still
Ch> >>
Ch> >> Win95 is not an OS.
Ch> >
Ch> >What are you like? Of course it is.
Ch>
Ch> There's already been a long winded argument about this in csa.advocacy
Ch> (possible somewhere else) - it *possible* ended up that Win95 WASN'T an OS -
Ch> although it has atleast some of the features of an OS.... Basically you can
Ch> argue either way sll you want; there's even a book arguing that Win95 is an OS
Ch> (so I read).
Ch>
Ch> I personally don't think Win95 is an OS, but that's a tad iffy as I don't have
Ch> enough technical expertise to back that up much :( .
Ch>
What is it instead ?!?!?!? a simple GUI (Graphical User Interface) ??????
ROTFL.
Steve Powell
In article <DMnyL...@exeter.ac.uk> k...@msor.ex.ac.uk (Ken Powell) writes:
> In article <3823...@kone.fipnet.fi>, "Jyrki Saarinen" <jsaa...@kone.fipnet.fi> writes:
> >
> >> Now A1200s are ridiculously *expensive* when compared to PCs.
> >> eg In UK .. A1200 (400) + 50 Mhz 030 (180) + 4 meg fast (130) + low res
> >> monitor (200) + 850 meg HD (180) == 1090 quid!!!!!!!!!
> >
> >God, does a 4MB SIMM really cost that much in UK?
>
> Well, it does for a 60ns one, I got the wrong ad of course (always happens),
> you can pick up 70ns ones for about #100 inc VAT - cheapest I've seen is #95
> in a clone mag.
You're looking in the wrong places, check your local free ads, around
here they are going for about 65 UKP all in!!!
--
/// A M M I GGGGG A Steve Powell G4WYC
/// AA MM|MM I G AA Bracknell, UK. IO91pj
\\\ /// A A M M M I G GGG A A
\\ /// AAAA M M I G G AAAA Ro...@g4wyc.demon.co.uk
\/// A A M M I GGGGG A A Demon Internet, Amiga A4000/040 & AmiTCP3
Paul Dossett
>>>Don't tell me you could get anything even close to Final Writer 4,
>>>Wordworth
>>>5, Final Calc, Final Data, Organiser, Imagine 4.0, Octamed 6 in 1993.
>>How many of those programs will run on a standard 1200, let alone *well*?
>Final writer 4 will not run, but there is a spesial edition anyway that WILL
>run on a standardmachine...Wordworth 5 will probably also come in a spesial
What, Final Copy II? That's a very cutdown version. You used these programs
as examples. I'm just trying to make the point that it's almost classable as
negligence to allow the 1200 to be sold without at least another 2Mb.
>>Scrub Final Writer, scrub Wordworth (possibly?), scrub Imagine.
>>Using the rest of these programs without a hard drive is a bad joke.
>People who buy machines without harddrive without any plans to
>upgrade are either just a bad joke, or more common, they don't know what
>their missing...
Or perhaps the machine should never have been sold without a HD in the first
place?
>Mui doesn't require much, MUIprograms is pretty nice on my Blizzard 1220.
>Anyway, most Amigaprograms are NOT MUIprograms...
I find MUI a little sluggish on my 040/33. Then again, my standards are
probably a little higher. I'd disagree with you about MUI memory usage. Just
ask any anti-MUIer on the net.
Before I get any flames, I don't care about MUI one way or the other. My
machine runs it tolerably, and thankfully no program I need requires it (at
least, yet - I'd like to run IBrowse, but I prefer my system to keep running).
>>>programs, like a GOOD Dpaintclone, a GOOD tracker (fasttracker is the
>>>closest candidate to this...) and more important a GOOD OS! :-)
>>DPaint isn't the be all and end all of paint programs, even on the Amiga!
>>Where is Photoshop for the Amiga? I know the PC has it. Hmm.. a good
>>tracker program? I bet the average PC owner is just *champing* at the bit
>>for that!
>Photoshop? Shapeshifter????? :-)
'Oh yes, sir, madam, this is the nice little Amiga 1200 - um, it doesn't
really run any of the programs you use at work, but add an accelerator, large
hard drive and another 8Mb of RAM, then steal a ROM image from somebody and
you can run some Mac stuff!
'Well, yes sir, you could buy a far faster Mac for a lot less than the cost of
doing that, but the Amiga also has... sir? madam?'
>>And what PC owners don't know (regarding good OSs) won't hurt them. After
>>all, without software, a great OS is just a bunch of windows and icons.
>How can you make good software if the OS ruins it? Final writer wouldn't be
>too nice on Geos (C64) would it??
>And the Amiga have good software anyway...
I know exactly what Geos is. For the machines capabilities it was brilliant.
And I *defy* you to try and tell me Word, WordPerfect, Photoshop, Quark
XPress, AmiPro, etc are *bad* programs. The Amiga has *nothing* to touch
these yet. Maybe it's fine by your standards but for professional use it's a
complete waste for anything other than setting up a render for a Pentium or
DEC Alpha to perform.
>>>Probably because of the users, the OS and some GREAT programs. Then, why is
>>>the PC better?
>>Because the software is there, the hype is there and the money is there.
>The software is on my HD too, and i have an Amiga. Hype, well i don't care,
>the machine isn't any worse because of less advertising. Even though it could
>be MUCH better WITH advertising. The money? Well, i'm no programmer, so i
>don't care. But of course, i DO BUY good programs/games. And a lot of
>PDprograms is nice too.
I buy programs and games too. In fact, just two days ago I received my
PageStream 3.0 password, and last night I sent off a fax for Odyssey and
Colonisation. I'd be getting XTR CD32 if Alex would get off his arse and
release it.. :)
But seriously, wouldn't you like to see things like Dark Forces, Full
Throttle, Quake, etc. coming out for the Amiga? I would, and it galls me to
know my system is more than capable, but can only do it running a Mac
emulation.
The machine is *far* worse for lack of advertising. Imagine if all the big
corporations were actively developing for the Amiga - LucasArts, Id, Lotus,
Microsoft (yes! It's not a dirty word), Netscape..
We don't even have a decent web browser yet. That's a bloody embarrassment.
Where is RealAudio? QuickTime? So many things others take for granted are
completely missing for lack of public perception. Sure, we *know* the machine
is capable, we've spent the bucks to bring it up to a useable level. But
without any kind of buzz, we're in a cul-de-sac. Sure, that's cool,
underground and vaguely dangerous, but I'd prefer to be able to talk to a PC
owner without dodging certain subjects!
>>>I think it's much better having to run WB1.3 on a A500 than Win95 on a
>>>Pentium. Even though the machine doesn't have the same specs...
>>God, would you? Why? With UAE you could almost emulate the A500 on the
>>Pentium. And what can a 500 do these days, apart from a few old games and a
>>bit of undemanding comms work? And don't say 'what about DTP, and
>>raytracing, etc?' - I'm talking about a useable system, not something that
>>takes an hour for a quickrender.
>I like those old games.
Fine, emulate them on a Pentium.. :)
What else could it do for you?
Of course, if they'd been coded properly in the first place, you could still
run them.
>>>3,5"HD (540 MB +++), 4 MB of RAM and a 030/50 MHZ prosessor it could be
>>>even better...
>>The A1200 is pretty much dead. An expanded one with an 030/50 and extra
>>RAM, plus a HD and CD-ROM is okay for a beginners system, but it's still
>>costing more than a 486, and does far less for the average punter (IMHO).
>An A1200/030-50/540MB 3,5"HD/2MBchip+2MBfast could easily been sold for
>500£ i think, now the problem is that we'll have to pay for a stupid
>expansion card when the prossesor could have been on the motherboard etc...
For that price you can buy a decent DX4/100, and for £100 more, a nice '040
Macintosh.
I really think the machine needs an 040 for a base system these days.
>>>>Would ESCOM have invested their millions solely for the Commodore
>>>>brandname so they could stick it to the front of PC's? I think not.
>>>I agree. And more importantly, would they even care to make a whole company
>>>(AT) to make, sell and develope the Amigas?
>>I really hope not. I hope they have the brains to make the 1200 replacement
>>truly expandable, I hope they make the PowerAmigas affordable, I hope they
>>advertise them, but right now, I'm just waiting. Pentiums are about to
>>break the £500 mark - give them 6 months.
>I don't think so - the Pentium motherboards seems to be very expensive, and
>before the Pentium PRO comes out, i don't think they will be as cheap as the
>486s are today...
Oh rubbish. You could buy a Pentium motherboard for less than the price of a
flipping Falcon 040 for chrissake. *Far* less.
Ciro Scognamiglio
>>
>> > You are a tiring person aren't you? Win95 is an excellent OS, I still
>>
>What are you like? Of course it is.
Yes of course, it is, but I wouldn't say excellent.
>Nigel
<tsb> Ciro Scognamiglio
E-Mail: ferr...@tread.it | Snail-Mail: via De Amicis 52 20025
Matrix: 2:331/101.33 | Legnano (MI) ITALY
<sb> Amiga 1200/030MMU 40Mhz 6Mb 28800bps AmiTCP/PPP1.30
Voice/Fax: +331 541918 | IRC: Moray (#Amiga #Italia)
<tsb> Using Thor 2.22 | Date 14-Feb-96 15:55:25
NIGEL HUGHES
>
> > > Win95 is not an OS.
> >
> > What are you like? Of course it is.
>
> Win95 as an OS. It is very much like old Win3.1.
I seriously doubt anyone associated with OS and the nature of OS
development care what you think. This is typical of blinkered
Amiga owners. The Amiga market has no place for you, we need
open minded (not so far your brains fall out) individuals.
Nigel
Wells Fargo Bank
: Gavan Moran (gavinm@vsprsun_15) wrote:
: : games. Not to mention two excellent free unix clones.
: That point evades me. They're also available on the Amiga.
: --
: Jason Compton jcom...@xnet.com
: Editor-in-Chief, Amiga Report Magazine (708) 741-0689 FAX
: You know you're on the way out... it's just a matter of time.
: AR on Aminet - docs/mags/ar???.lha AR Mailing list - Mail me
: WWW - http://www.omnipresence.com/Amiga/News/AR, www.cucug.org/ar/ar.html
Nobody denies that the low-end stock A1200 is behind the times. I think
some of us should relax until March/April when the upgraded low-end Amiga
is revealed.
After they are revealed, it will be up to Amiga Technologies to market
them on a substantial level and lower the price a bit aiming at quantity
sales a bit more to get their income rather than a lot per machine.
These newer machines with the Surfer pack and whatever else will sell a lot
better than the current A1200, no doubt about that, as long as they don't
hike the price on us... best bet would be to lower it a little from where
it currently stands but with all the new stuff in it. We will wait and see.
Rob Bamford
(wfb...@netcom.com)
How many of you expect a man who just got out of tripple by-pass surgery to
run in a marathon? Well, I don't expect the Amiga to do so until it is
healed either. Lets get a grip and show a little patience. This is not
to say that AT (and SMG in North America) will have to do what they may
consider a risk to get the Amiga to succeed. Include 2MB Fast RAM as
standard too guys!!
HAAVARD JAKOBSEN
1)CHUNKY GFX
This is the thing I miss most on the amiga. Fast Chunky gfx
on the amiga is a must for texturemapping.
2)PRICE/PERFORMANCE
The Amiga is currently overpriced as hell!!
An amiga 1200 at it's current price should have a 68030 50mhz
and a 500megs HD and 4megs fast. Still then you could get a
486 system with same stuff AND monitor for less money.
Currently you can buy 2-3 Pentium PC for the price of a 4000/40-4000/60
and the single pentium will perform better.
THIS HAVE TO CHANGE!!!!
3)16bit sound
Not such a big deal, but still....
4)Support
Software is flowing on the PC. Well, the amiga market is getting
better now after some 'dead' year, but we need some real blockbusters.
Some superb games that doesn't exist on the PC....
I'm a very happy amigaowner, but I have a lot of wishes for the future
for the amiga. If we just could get a fast Chunky gfx mode I would
be so darn happy. I still think the Amiga is superior to the PC in many
ways
(like OS, mutitasking user friendliness and so on)
but we must prove this to the PC people too. AT in spesial have to do
this.
I hope they can push their prices down soon, or lisence the amiga to
other companies, so we can get cheap clones...
Wells Fargo Bank
: >People who buy machines without harddrive without any plans to
: >upgrade are either just a bad joke, or more common, they don't know what
: >their missing...
: Or perhaps the machine should never have been sold without a HD in the first
: place?
A hard drive is without doubt essential for a serious computer user. Wether
is comes standard, or is added later.
: But seriously, wouldn't you like to see things like Dark Forces, Full
: Throttle, Quake, etc. coming out for the Amiga? I would, and it galls me to
: know my system is more than capable, but can only do it running a Mac
: emulation.
It would be great to have such games native. And similar games are being
produced in limited numbers. Having the ability to emulate these from another
platform isn't 'bad'. We still have access to them.
: The machine is *far* worse for lack of advertising. Imagine if all the big
: corporations were actively developing for the Amiga - LucasArts, Id, Lotus,
: Microsoft (yes! It's not a dirty word), Netscape..
I would love to see more developers jump back on the Amiga band-wagon. Yes,
even Microsoft... but only for Microsoft Word.
: We don't even have a decent web browser yet. That's a bloody embarrassment.
Well, MindWalker is out. It is easily decent - unless you want to whine about
it using MUI. Granted, I don't prefer it, but you asked for a decent Web
Browser, not the 'ideal' best for your personal preferences Web Browser.
: Where is RealAudio? QuickTime? So many things others take for granted are
: completely missing for lack of public perception. Sure we *know* the machine
: is capable, we've spent the bucks to bring it up to a useable level. But
: without any kind of buzz, we're in a cul-de-sac. Sure, that's cool,
: underground and vaguely dangerous, but I'd prefer to be able to talk to a PC
: owner without dodging certain subjects!
I relate. QuickTime is said to be ported (or mostly so) for the Amiga by
Apple themselves. To be released on the Amiga at some point it is said. I
would love to see RealAudio on the Amiga as well. I know that similar
concepts have been dealt with (AmiPhone, etc), but RealAudio is needed (or
something that does the same thing).
: >>>3,5"HD (540 MB +++), 4 MB of RAM and a 030/50 MHZ prosessor it could be
: >>>even better...
: >>The A1200 is pretty much dead. An expanded one with an 030/50 and extra
: >>RAM, plus a HD and CD-ROM is okay for a beginners system, but it's still
: >>costing more than a 486, and does far less for the average punter (IMHO).
: >An A1200/030-50/540MB 3,5"HD/2MBchip+2MBfast could easily been sold for
: >500£ i think, now the problem is that we'll have to pay for a stupid
: >expansion card when the prossesor could have been on the motherboard etc...
: For that price you can buy a decent DX4/100, and for 100 more, a nice '040
: Macintosh.
: I really think the machine needs an 040 for a base system these days.
The more I read and see trends in the computer industry, I fear that if the
March/April Amiga revealing doesn't include an 040 with 2MB Fast RAM included
on the standard system (along with whatever other features they offer), it
will not go over well. The CPU also needs to be upgradeable to a full version
with MMU and FPU if the user chooses to do so, unless they include these
things on the standard low-end Amiga which couldn't hurt other than a bit
more cost to the consumer -- worth an extra $50-$80 in my opinion to have
these come standard on our computers.
Rob Bamford
(wfb...@netcom.com)
AMIGA - "Back for the Future!"
PS. Amiga Technologies promised something BIG at the CeBIT show in March.
While they may want to do something BIG at the World of Amiga in April
now (thier own baby), it will be a huge negative blow if they totally
back away from anything substantial at CeBIT. A proto-type revealing
at CeBIT along with the modem Surfer packs being for sale would be nice,
and then actually having the new Amigas for sale at the World of Amiga
would make sense. (Somehow this sound like what may be planned).
Commments?
Paul Dossett
>: >People who buy machines without harddrive without any plans to
>: >upgrade are either just a bad joke, or more common, they don't know what
>: >their missing...
>: Or perhaps the machine should never have been sold without a HD in the
>: first place?
>A hard drive is without doubt essential for a serious computer user. Wether
>is comes standard, or is added later.
The problem is, the A1200 is still laughably touted as running well without a
hard drive. Well, that is, if you've never used a hard drive before, of course.
I think I'd go mad if somebody took my SCSI gear away!
>: But seriously, wouldn't you like to see things like Dark Forces, Full
>: Throttle, Quake, etc. coming out for the Amiga? I would, and it galls me
>: to know my system is more than capable, but can only do it running a Mac
>: emulation.
>It would be great to have such games native. And similar games are being
>produced in limited numbers. Having the ability to emulate these from
>another platform isn't 'bad'. We still have access to them.
I know it's better than nothing, and I'm making the effort of contacting the
people I buy Mac software from and letting them know I emulate it with an Amiga,
and would have bought an Amiga version of the same quality. It can't hurt, and
might even make companies check out the system again.. I hope?
>: The machine is *far* worse for lack of advertising. Imagine if all the big
>: corporations were actively developing for the Amiga - LucasArts, Id, Lotus,
>: Microsoft (yes! It's not a dirty word), Netscape..
>I would love to see more developers jump back on the Amiga band-wagon. Yes,
>even Microsoft... but only for Microsoft Word.
As long as it's not ported from the Mac version.. :)
>: We don't even have a decent web browser yet. That's a bloody
>: embarrassment.
>Well, MindWalker is out. It is easily decent - unless you want to whine
>about it using MUI. Granted, I don't prefer it, but you asked for a decent
>Web Browser, not the 'ideal' best for your personal preferences Web Browser.
I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that was out yet - it certainly isn't in Australia. I
hope it's bug-free, because I will be more than happy to try a demo of it, even
if it does use MUI. I'm looking forward to AWeb though. :)
>: Where is RealAudio? QuickTime? So many things others take for granted are
>: completely missing for lack of public perception. Sure we *know* the
>: machine is capable, we've spent the bucks to bring it up to a useable
>: level. But without any kind of buzz, we're in a cul-de-sac. Sure, that's
>: cool, underground and vaguely dangerous, but I'd prefer to be able to talk
>: to a PC owner without dodging certain subjects!
>I relate. QuickTime is said to be ported (or mostly so) for the Amiga by
>Apple themselves. To be released on the Amiga at some point it is said. I
I heard the same thing, but I haven't seen official confirmation, so I'm
ignoring it.
If QuickTime was available I could run Blender magazine native.. :)
>would love to see RealAudio on the Amiga as well. I know that similar
>concepts have been dealt with (AmiPhone, etc), but RealAudio is needed (or
>something that does the same thing).
Similar, but not nearly as useful. RealAudio allows you to connect to a site
and listen to what amounts to a radio broadcast. AmiPhone is a one-one link
only, and incompatible. I haven't been able to test AmiPhone yet as I don't
know anybody with a sampler to talk with (anybody in Melbourne, Aust. willing to
try this out?).
>: >An A1200/030-50/540MB 3,5"HD/2MBchip+2MBfast could easily been sold for
>: >500£ i think, now the problem is that we'll have to pay for a stupid
>: >expansion card when the prossesor could have been on the motherboard
>: >etc...
>: For that price you can buy a decent DX4/100, and for 100 more, a nice '040
>: Macintosh.
>: I really think the machine needs an 040 for a base system these days.
>The more I read and see trends in the computer industry, I fear that if the
>March/April Amiga revealing doesn't include an 040 with 2MB Fast RAM included
>on the standard system (along with whatever other features they offer), it
>will not go over well. The CPU also needs to be upgradeable to a full
>version with MMU and FPU if the user chooses to do so, unless they include
>these things on the standard low-end Amiga which couldn't hurt other than a
>bit more cost to the consumer -- worth an extra $50-$80 in my opinion to have
>these come standard on our computers.
We really do need these as standard on the low end machines as I can't see how a
604-equipped PowerAmiga is going to come in at under £2500 (going by Mac
prices).
> Rob Bamford
> (wfb...@netcom.com)
>PS. Amiga Technologies promised something BIG at the CeBIT show in March.
> While they may want to do something BIG at the World of Amiga in April
> now (thier own baby), it will be a huge negative blow if they totally
> back away from anything substantial at CeBIT. A proto-type revealing
> at CeBIT along with the modem Surfer packs being for sale would be nice,
> and then actually having the new Amigas for sale at the World of Amiga
> would make sense. (Somehow this sound like what may be planned).
> Commments?
I think the US market needs something to restore faith. I'm unsure whether AT
will follow through on this promise though, but I'm open to be amazed!
--
Paul Dossett | Yamaha, Epiphone, Pearl, Paiste | Amiga 2000/040/21/365/3.1 __
-------------| RASTER Bubble Bobble betatester | Amiga CD32/020/2/CD/3.1__///
Christer Bjarnemo
>Do you really think, people are painting pictures on another platform
>and then convert them to the PC ???? (most of them wont do it! Some use a
>Mac).
Erhm.. I have to do that all the time! :-)
..Christer
--
Beta-Tester for the RASTER Software group - Current Project: BUBBLE BOBBLE
--
You don't understand me? - Then learn how to be abusive in Swedish:
http://www.bart.nl/~sante/enginvek.html
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