Sonic the Hedgehog - Amiga version (!)
compte...@camins.camosun.bc.ca
across a software listing for a mail order company. After perusing it for a
while, I noticed that they had a listing for (believe it or not) Sonic the
Hedgehog. Has anyone else heard about this? Is it actually out now, or was this
company (I can't remember who it was right now) just jumping the gun and giving
an advance listing for it? If it actually DOES exist, how good is it, and how
does it compare with the Genesis/Game Gear versions? Lastly, how could I get a
LEGIT copy of it? Thanx in advance. Matta ne.
-=]> Max <[=-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kan peki da. KAN PEKI DA. A-Ko, anata wa shinu no yo.
Shinu no yo! SHIIIIIIIINUUUUUUUU NOOOOOOO YOOOOOOO!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard John Rauser
>A while back when I was flipping through a back issue of Amiga World, I came
>across a software listing for a mail order company. After perusing it for a
>while, I noticed that they had a listing for (believe it or not) Sonic the
>Hedgehog. Has anyone else heard about this? Is it actually out now, or was this
>company (I can't remember who it was right now) just jumping the gun and giving
>an advance listing for it? If it actually DOES exist, how good is it, and how
>does it compare with the Genesis/Game Gear versions? Lastly, how could I get a
>LEGIT copy of it? Thanx in advance. Matta ne.
Sonic on an Amiga? Yuck...I hope not. That game is way too good and fast for
a computer. Computer gamers, please stick to RPGs and simulations...
--
Richard J. Rauser (insert philosophical quote here)
rau...@sfu.ca
WNI BATMAN RETURNS this summer
Simon Lee
>compte...@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
>>A while back when I was flipping through a back issue of Amiga World, I came
>>across a software listing for a mail order company. After perusing it for a
>>while, I noticed that they had a listing for (believe it or not) Sonic the
>>Hedgehog. Has anyone else heard about this? Is it actually out now, or was this
>>company (I can't remember who it was right now) just jumping the gun and giving
>>an advance listing for it? If it actually DOES exist, how good is it, and how
>>does it compare with the Genesis/Game Gear versions? Lastly, how could I get a
>>LEGIT copy of it? Thanx in advance. Matta ne.
>
> Sonic on an Amiga? Yuck...I hope not. That game is way too good and fast for
>a computer. Computer gamers, please stick to RPGs and simulations...
>
Obviously, you've never played a game on an Amiga, or at least a good one.
It's got just as much horsepower as a Genesis, if not more. Another thing,
an Amiga is more than just a "computer". It's a "game machine" :)
-Simon
--
* Simon Lee * Microscopy and Imaging Resources *
* si...@ivem.ucsd.edu * Intermediate Voltage Electron Microscopy *
* su...@ucsd.edu * UC San Diego, Dept. of Neuroscience *
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
George McBay
>across a software listing for a mail order company. After perusing it for a
>while, I noticed that they had a listing for (believe it or not) Sonic the
>Hedgehog. Has anyone else heard about this?
The story I heard is that US Gold was going to port it but when the
Genesis version sales exceeded Sega's expectations they cancelled the project
so that they could horde the game, ala Super Mario Bros on the Nintendo.
Don't worry too much though, it probably would have been horrible.
With the exception of Super Hang On and Golden Axe, Amiga ports of Sega games
(at least the ones I have seen running and/or played) really, really rot.
--
George F. McBay -- gmc...@lynx.northeastern.edu * g...@gnu.ai.mit.edu
George McBay
>a computer. Computer gamers, please stick to RPGs and simulations...
You must have only played IBM games? Maybe Macintosh? Don't forget that
games that are hot on consoles now (like Speedball 2, Turrican, Star Control,
Shadow of the Beast (and any of the other Psygnosis console ports), Chuck Rock,
Back to the Future 3, etc, etc, etc) were first out on home computers like
the Amiga (and, GASP, the Atari ST, and even some IBM thrown in!)
Anyways, what I mean is that there are plenty of good, fast, Amiga games.
They are also generally much more affordable, Amiga games USUALLY go
from $5-50 dollars (50 being pretty rare) whereas most Console games go
for $50-75$. (-$200 if you count the Neo-Geo)
Marc J. Brown
>
> Sonic on an Amiga? Yuck...I hope not. That game is way too good and fast for
>a computer. Computer gamers, please stick to RPGs and simulations...
PLEASE! Don't make unconscious references to IBM when you judge computer
games. The Amiga is perfectly capable of handling Sonic the Hedgehog...
it's simply a matter of the coders doing it correctly. Let me refer you
(yet again) to Turrican II. It's a good example of what can happen when
the coders know what they're doing. It's also a good example of the type
of game that's TOO GOOD for the Genesis to successfully reproduce.
-Maruku of Megawatts
Teh Kao Yang
>PLEASE! Don't make unconscious references to IBM when you judge computer
>games. The Amiga is perfectly capable of handling Sonic the Hedgehog...
>it's simply a matter of the coders doing it correctly. Let me refer you
>(yet again) to Turrican II. It's a good example of what can happen when
>the coders know what they're doing. It's also a good example of the type
>of game that's TOO GOOD for the Genesis to successfully reproduce.
>
>-Maruku of Megawatts
Just what is it about Turrican 2 that's too good for the Genesis to do? I've
played the game, and I've seen nothing in it that terribly impressed me,
except maybe for the great soundtrack in the beginning. The parallax scrolling
in the horizontal shooting stages were impressive though(for an Amiga game).
I'm not certain, but doesn't the Amiga have flicker problems when you try to
display more than 32 colors at a time?(without any use of hardware add-ons)
The Genesis can display 64 colors simultaneously.
I've played a lot of Amiga games, including supposedly the best ones like
Turrican 2, Rtype 2, Blood Money, Shadow of the Beast, etc... With the
exception of Shadow of the Beast, I think that the Genesis is capable of
reproducing any of the good Amiga games, not that I want to see it happen.
I hate Amiga conversions...it seems like making the Genesis "sink" to the
Amiga's inferior level...
-Teh Kao, a Genesis, SNES, and Amiga owner.
Rich P Zimering
I'm just waiting to see how people will dig into these few lines. 16 color
flicker? Snicker. Guess games it all ya do on the amiga (not that that is
bad...). Anyway - Turrican is only the most playable platform shoot-em-up I've
ever seen, and I've seen a lot of em.
Marc J. Brown
>Just what is it about Turrican 2 that's too good for the Genesis to do? I've
>played the game, and I've seen nothing in it that terribly impressed me,
>except maybe for the great soundtrack in the beginning. The parallax scrolling
That's one thing. The Amiga's sound is 51 Mhz digitized, which is far
better than FM synthesis... since it's controlled by its own processor,
it's possible to let the CPU use splicing to simulate more voices. When
dealing with music and sound FX, you can't do better than digitized sound.
(The Genesis does have limited digitized capabilities, and I gag everytime
it tries to demonstrate this).
>in the horizontal shooting stages were impressive though(for an Amiga game).
>
>I'm not certain, but doesn't the Amiga have flicker problems when you try to
>display more than 32 colors at a time?(without any use of hardware add-ons)
>The Genesis can display 64 colors simultaneously.
No. The Amiga can display 64 colors... AND, with help from copperlists,
display even more. Turrican II uses this ability to display something like
two hundred colors (though most of them are for the background rather than
the sprites/blobs).
>I've played a lot of Amiga games, including supposedly the best ones like
>Turrican 2, Rtype 2, Blood Money, Shadow of the Beast, etc... With the
Rtype2 sucks on the Amiga. Bad port. Blood Money is incredibly outdated,
and sucked to begin with. Shadow of the Beast is okay, but still outdated.
Check out Another World (Out of this World), Apidya, Gods, Pinball Dreams,
Awesome, EPIC... There are many I have not seen. There's one that just came
out called something like Vengeance, and it's really awesome!
>exception of Shadow of the Beast, I think that the Genesis is capable of
>reproducing any of the good Amiga games, not that I want to see it happen.
The Genesick has but 512 colors to choose from. When a game is ported to
the Genesis, there is a notable color loss, because there is a much smaller
palette to choose from. The sound instantly goes down the toilet, and they
have to totally remake it to fit the limitations of FM synthesis. Then
they have to totally cut out any animation (60 fps) there used to be (so
far, this has not happened... maybe when/if they port Beast II). Bottom
line: The color and sound suffer. What's left? Gameplay. Any system
that can handle graphic movements/scrolling with ease can have good games
with good gameplay. Good graphics/sound? That's left to the point of
view of the onlooker... usually, when someone says his Genesis game has
great graphics and a killer soundtrack, they're comparing it with other
Genesis games and/or TurboGrafx/NES stuff.
>I hate Amiga conversions...it seems like making the Genesis "sink" to the
>Amiga's inferior level...
Yeah :) NOT!!!!
>-Teh Kao, a Genesis, SNES, and Amiga owner.
If you think Blood Money is one of the "greats", you're certainly in no
position to judge the Amiga as "inferior". And try arguing against cold
hard facts as presented above.
BTW, there will soon be a MegaDrive/Genesis emulator for the Amiga.
It's vaporware, true, but all too possible.
-Maruku
Wilco Boumans
of an Amiga (sound, real software) with a Sega (smooth graphics, ...))
would be much nicer than just an Amiga or just a Sega. Lets just say the
best gamecomputer ever has not been build yet (or could it be a nintendo).
But this all has got nothing to do with the original question:
Is sonic the hedgehog available for the Amiga?
I sure hope so, I rented a Sega and STH, and it played really great.
Wilco Boumans,
ded...@info.win.tue.nl
Ralph Barbagallo
>A while back when I was flipping through a back issue of Amiga World, I came
>across a software listing for a mail order company. After perusing it for a
>while, I noticed that they had a listing for (believe it or not) Sonic the
>Hedgehog. Has anyone else heard about this? Is it actually out now, or was this
>company (I can't remember who it was right now) just jumping the gun and giving
>an advance listing for it? If it actually DOES exist, how good is it, and how
>does it compare with the Genesis/Game Gear versions? Lastly, how could I get a
>LEGIT copy of it? Thanx in advance. Matta ne.
>
> -=]> Max <[=-
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Yes, I belive the Amiga version of Sonic The Hedgehog is a UK only release.
I heard it was better than the Genesis version in graphics and playability,
but I never played it. To get a legit copy you could try ordering from
Sideline software...I think they have a UK import service. Other companies
also have UK imports available.
I also saw and Amiga version of Space Gun and Beast Busters in these UK import
catalogs!
___________________________________________________________________
/ / \
/ Ralph A. Barbagallo III / Co-Editor of \
/ ----- / M I N D S T O R M \
\ nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us \ /
\ \ THE Newsletter for high-end gamers! /
----------------------------------------------------------------------
* Game Informer, F.A.N., The Neucleus, Mind Storm, MAVGUG, check 'em!*
----------------------------------------------------------------------
compte...@camins.camosun.bc.ca
> display even more. Turrican II uses this ability to display something like
> two hundred colors (though most of them are for the background rather than
> the sprites/blobs).
Actually, using HAM (ie, Hold And Modify, not the stuff you find in a deli)
mode, it's capable of animating stuff in 4096 colours.
>>I've played a lot of Amiga games, including supposedly the best ones like
>>Turrican 2, Rtype 2, Blood Money, Shadow of the Beast, etc... With the
>
> Rtype2 sucks on the Amiga. Bad port. Blood Money is incredibly outdated,
> and sucked to begin with. Shadow of the Beast is okay, but still outdated.
Tell me about it. Strange how he picked some of the most pathetic amiga games
to compare systems with. Sure, Blood Money was good for it's time [especially
that demo! :-)], but it's pretty bland now.
> Check out Another World (Out of this World), Apidya, Gods, Pinball Dreams,
> Awesome, EPIC... There are many I have not seen. There's one that just came
> out called something like Vengeance, and it's really awesome!
Actually, Gods is coming out soon for the Genesis. I think it's already out for
the Megadrive. Some more Genesis/Amiga conversion we could add to the list are
James Pond, James Pond II: Codename Robocod, and Fatal Rewind. I personally
prefer the original name for it: The Killing Game Show. The name just fits in a
lot better with the game description, IMHO.
> The Genesick has but 512 colors to choose from. When a game is ported to
> the Genesis, there is a notable color loss, because there is a much smaller
> palette to choose from. The sound instantly goes down the toilet, and they
> have to totally remake it to fit the limitations of FM synthesis. Then
Well, I'm not sure about "flushing it down the toilet" as soon as you program
music for the Genesis. After all, it has 10 independent voices built in, and
the Mega-CD gives it an extra 8 PCM voices on top of that (basically what the
Amiga uses), so I can't see it being a major downgrade. Sure, you could split
the voices on the Amiga to simulate more, but that also gives you a MASSIVE
downgrade in quality. If you know of a method of splitting the voices in
real-time on the Amiga WITHOUT having any of the quality reduced, and me able
to modify the pitch, instrumentation and volume of each voice independently on
the fly, I'd like to know about it.
> they have to totally cut out any animation (60 fps) there used to be (so
> far, this has not happened... maybe when/if they port Beast II). Bottom
Yes, that WOULD be interesting to see, especially without the Mega CD. :-)
>>I hate Amiga conversions...it seems like making the Genesis "sink" to the
>>Amiga's inferior level...
>
> Yeah :) NOT!!!!
> If you think Blood Money is one of the "greats", you're certainly in no
> position to judge the Amiga as "inferior". And try arguing against cold
> hard facts as presented above.
Well, back when it first came out, it WAS one of the greats (after all, it was
done by DMA design, who also did Lemmings, and released by Psygnosis), but as I
said, it's pretty bland now. One more game we can add to the Genesis
conversions of Amiga games: Lemmings. Yes, it IS coming out soon, and somehow,
they're not only going to have the 2 player option on it, but the 1 player mode
is going to have 180 levels! That's 60 MORE than the Amiga version! I'm not
sure how playable it'll be without the mouse, tho', and as a conversion, it
certainly couldn't be any worse then the SNES version.
> BTW, there will soon be a MegaDrive/Genesis emulator for the Amiga.
> It's vaporware, true, but all too possible.
Really? Who's supposed to be putting it out? How would they be able to manage
it with the Extra Halfbrite mode, the 4 (true) voice limitation, the 1 button
joystick port, etc? Would they have all that added as extra chips in the
hardware add-on which comes with it? Are they going to worry about the
protection circuitry? Most importantly, are they going to have the port for the
Mega CD? Also, how about legal hassles? Any chance of them getting sued? TTYL.
Marc J. Brown
>> No. The Amiga can display 64 colors... AND, with help from copperlists,
>> display even more. Turrican II uses this ability to display something like
>> two hundred colors (though most of them are for the background rather than
>> the sprites/blobs).
>
>Actually, using HAM (ie, Hold And Modify, not the stuff you find in a deli)
>mode, it's capable of animating stuff in 4096 colours.
I really haven't seen any games which use all 4096, so I didn't mention it :).
(Animations... those I have seen :)
>> Check out Another World (Out of this World), Apidya, Gods, Pinball Dreams,
>> Awesome, EPIC... There are many I have not seen. There's one that just came
>> out called something like Vengeance, and it's really awesome!
>
>Actually, Gods is coming out soon for the Genesis. I think it's already out for
>the Megadrive.
But, as I said before, the serious 512 color limitation will make the game
lose a lot of it's graphic quality... and since ALL of the sounds were pure
digitized audio, there will be a notable deficiency there as well (namely,
the sound will SUCK!!).
>Some more Genesis/Amiga conversion we could add to the list are
>James Pond, James Pond II: Codename Robocod, and Fatal Rewind. I personally
>prefer the original name for it: The Killing Game Show. The name just fits in a
>lot better with the game description, IMHO.
Agreed. And where was the short animation at the begninning? GONE? HAHAHA!
I didn't like the James Pond games, personally :).
>> The Genesick has but 512 colors to choose from. When a game is ported to
>> the Genesis, there is a notable color loss, because there is a much smaller
>> palette to choose from. The sound instantly goes down the toilet, and they
>> have to totally remake it to fit the limitations of FM synthesis. Then
>
>Well, I'm not sure about "flushing it down the toilet" as soon as you program
>music for the Genesis. After all, it has 10 independent voices built in, and
>the Mega-CD gives it an extra 8 PCM voices on top of that (basically what the
>Amiga uses)
We're not talking about the $500 CD-Genesis, though. We're talking about
the Genesis alone and how bad it reeks compared to the Amiga ;). Ten voices
seems like a lot, but you forget that when dealing with music, a lot of the
time the samples (as in chords) are actually several different noises at
once... and of course QUALITY simply can't stand out with FM synth. Sound FX
are garbage with FM synth, as is any attempt at percussion.
>so I can't see it being a major downgrade. Sure, you could split
>the voices on the Amiga to simulate more, but that also gives you a MASSIVE
>downgrade in quality. If you know of a method of splitting the voices in
I didn't think Turrican II had a massive downgrade in quality. Remember,
the Amiga's sound is the highest 8-bit audio you can get so far (51 Mhz), so
the quality loss isn't quite as severe as, say, when you play mods through
a piece-o-crud 22 Mhz SoundBlaster :).
>real-time on the Amiga WITHOUT having any of the quality reduced, and me able
>to modify the pitch, instrumentation and volume of each voice independently on
>the fly, I'd like to know about it.
Any of the quality? Nope. But a drop from "the best" to "average" is quite
acceptable IMHO. It's moot; the new Paula is supposed to be quite
extraordinary.
>> they have to totally cut out any animation (60 fps) there used to be (so
>> far, this has not happened... maybe when/if they port Beast II). Bottom
>
>Yes, that WOULD be interesting to see, especially without the Mega CD. :-)
The Mega CD still limits the Genesis to 512 colors... this fact alone is
keeping me, and many others, from ever purchasing it.
>>>I hate Amiga conversions...it seems like making the Genesis "sink" to the
>>>Amiga's inferior level...
>>
>> Yeah :) NOT!!!!
>
>> If you think Blood Money is one of the "greats", you're certainly in no
>> position to judge the Amiga as "inferior". And try arguing against cold
>> hard facts as presented above.
>
>Well, back when it first came out, it WAS one of the greats (after all, it was
>done by DMA design, who also did Lemmings, and released by Psygnosis), but as I
>said, it's pretty bland now. One more game we can add to the Genesis
>conversions of Amiga games: Lemmings. Yes, it IS coming out soon, and somehow,
>they're not only going to have the 2 player option on it, but the 1 player mode
>is going to have 180 levels! That's 60 MORE than the Amiga version! I'm not
>sure how playable it'll be without the mouse, tho', and as a conversion, it
>certainly couldn't be any worse then the SNES version.
100% of Lemmings's playability came from the mouse. You could perform things
as fast as you thought about them. But, Lemmings wasn't a terribly impressive
game graphically, which is one good reason it ports to inferior systems so
well (except for the music and sound FX).
>> BTW, there will soon be a MegaDrive/Genesis emulator for the Amiga.
>> It's vaporware, true, but all too possible.
>
>Really? Who's supposed to be putting it out?
I don't remember... something like Advanced Emulations. A British group.
>How would they be able to manage
>it with the Extra Halfbrite mode
They let you select between X-halfbrite or HAM... either way the display isn't
perfecto but it's "close enough".
>the 4 (true) voice limitation
Realtime splicing... which is apparently a cinch because they're dealing with
FM synth sound rather than digitized.
>the 1 button joystick port, etc?
One button? No, several Amiga games accept more. And a simple hardware hack
of an unknown (to me) nature makes all 4 buttons acceptable.
>Would they have all that added as extra chips in the
>hardware add-on which comes with it?
No. They emulate it with help from the Amiga's own processors.
>Are they going to worry about the protection circuitry?
Basically, when the Amiga emulates the Genesis, it's also instantly giving you
the capabilities of a cartridge copier... that's pirating, but they have a
right NOT to care :).
>Most importantly, are they going to have the port for the Mega CD?
They HIGHLY recommend a quick processor for MegaCD emulation... and they
require a CD-ROM device (like the A690). It'd be cheaper to actually get
the Mega-CD.
>Also, how about legal hassles? Any chance of them getting sued? TTYL.
Probably... the same chance as that of the Thailand companies getting sued for
making the MegaDisk and MegaMagicDisk (!?) cartridge copiers...
> -=]> Max <[=-
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Kan peki da. KAN PEKI DA. A-Ko, anata wa shinu no yo.
> Shinu no yo! SHIIIIIIIINUUUUUUUU NOOOOOOO YOOOOOOO!!!
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What does that mean, exactly? I only have one A-ko short.
-Maruku
Ron Dippold
> ?????????
Vaporware is software/hardware that doesn't exist. You'll see
widespread advertising and claims (it's very visible) but when you
look a little closer, there's nothing there.
This applies to both products that are advertised and hyped up before
they are actually available and to products which never get to market.
Microsoft is the king of vaporware.
--
Donate your body to science. Even medical students could use a chuckle.
Shaitan
[stuff deleted]
>BTW, there will soon be a MegaDrive/Genesis emulator for the Amiga.
>It's vaporware, true, but all too possible.
^^^^^^^^^
?????????
>-Maruku
::Robert Sumner (the symbols say it all. . .)::
Nathan W. Stehle
>In article <1992May8...@camins.camosun.bc.ca> compte...@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
>>> No. The Amiga can display 64 colors... AND, with help from copperlists,
>>> display even more. Turrican II uses this ability to display something like
>>> two hundred colors (though most of them are for the background rather than
>>> the sprites/blobs).
>>
>>Actually, using HAM (ie, Hold And Modify, not the stuff you find in a deli)
>>mode, it's capable of animating stuff in 4096 colours.
>
>I really haven't seen any games which use all 4096, so I didn't mention it :).
>(Animations... those I have seen :)
>
>>> Check out Another World (Out of this World), Apidya, Gods, Pinball Dreams,
>>> Awesome, EPIC... There are many I have not seen. There's one that just came
>>> out called something like Vengeance, and it's really awesome!
>>
>>Actually, Gods is coming out soon for the Genesis. I think it's already out for
>>the Megadrive.
>
>But, as I said before, the serious 512 color limitation will make the game
>lose a lot of it's graphic quality... and since ALL of the sounds were pure
>digitized audio, there will be a notable deficiency there as well (namely,
>the sound will SUCK!!).
I don't think that the pallete will seriously affect the grapcics, what
affects the graphics are the number of colors onscreen which will then
affect any attempts at shading, etc.
>
>>Some more Genesis/Amiga conversion we could add to the list are
>>James Pond, James Pond II: Codename Robocod, and Fatal Rewind. I personally
>>prefer the original name for it: The Killing Game Show. The name just fits in a
>>lot better with the game description, IMHO.
>
>Agreed. And where was the short animation at the begninning? GONE? HAHAHA!
>I didn't like the James Pond games, personally :).
>
>>> The Genesick has but 512 colors to choose from. When a game is ported to
>>> the Genesis, there is a notable color loss, because there is a much smaller
>>> palette to choose from. The sound instantly goes down the toilet, and they
>>> have to totally remake it to fit the limitations of FM synthesis. Then
>>
>>Well, I'm not sure about "flushing it down the toilet" as soon as you program
>>music for the Genesis. After all, it has 10 independent voices built in, and
>>the Mega-CD gives it an extra 8 PCM voices on top of that (basically what the
>>Amiga uses)
>
>We're not talking about the $500 CD-Genesis, though. We're talking about
>the Genesis alone and how bad it reeks compared to the Amiga ;). Ten voices
>seems like a lot, but you forget that when dealing with music, a lot of the
>time the samples (as in chords) are actually several different noises at
>once... and of course QUALITY simply can't stand out with FM synth. Sound FX
>are garbage with FM synth, as is any attempt at percussion.
The CD will not be $500. $400 at the most, more than likely in the range of
$300-350. Besides, how much does an Amiga cost?
>>so I can't see it being a major downgrade. Sure, you could split
>>the voices on the Amiga to simulate more, but that also gives you a MASSIVE
>>downgrade in quality. If you know of a method of splitting the voices in
>
>I didn't think Turrican II had a massive downgrade in quality. Remember,
>the Amiga's sound is the highest 8-bit audio you can get so far (51 Mhz), so
>the quality loss isn't quite as severe as, say, when you play mods through
>a piece-o-crud 22 Mhz SoundBlaster :).
>
>>real-time on the Amiga WITHOUT having any of the quality reduced, and me able
>>to modify the pitch, instrumentation and volume of each voice independently on
>>the fly, I'd like to know about it.
>
>Any of the quality? Nope. But a drop from "the best" to "average" is quite
>acceptable IMHO. It's moot; the new Paula is supposed to be quite
>extraordinary.
>
>>> they have to totally cut out any animation (60 fps) there used to be (so
>>> far, this has not happened... maybe when/if they port Beast II). Bottom
>>
>>Yes, that WOULD be interesting to see, especially without the Mega CD. :-)
>
>The Mega CD still limits the Genesis to 512 colors... this fact alone is
>keeping me, and many others, from ever purchasing it.
The games for the TG-16 that really shine are on CD, and I have seen screen
shots for the Genesis/Megadrive CD and they look spectacular.
Divine
emulator for the Amiga is possible. There is also a Z80 on the Genesis
motherboard. This chip takes care of the sound duties of the machine, as well
as being used to run old Master System games.
All credit to the Amiga (best machine ever made), but it can not
emulate the Genesis without significant hardware add-ons.
Marc J. Brown
I never once indicated that the emulation would be 100%; it's simply not
possible. The Z80 can be emulated through hardware-related hacks, but don't
ask me to figure it out; they apparently did. They probably made the Paula
take over the Z80's job, somewhat. The significant hardware add-on I would
recommend is a faster processor :).
-Maruku
BAKER, RICHARD ALAN
>Obviously, you've never played a game on an Amiga, or at least a good one.
>It's got just as much horsepower as a Genesis, if not more. Another thing,
>an Amiga is more than just a "computer". It's a "game machine" :)
You amiga people are never satisfied. First you want it to be a computer.
Now you want it to be a game machine?
Richard John Rauser
>rtsu...@ulkyvx02.louisville.edu (Shaitan) writes:
>>>It's vaporware, true, but all too possible.
>> ^^^^^^^^^
>> ?????????
>Vaporware is software/hardware that doesn't exist. You'll see
>widespread advertising and claims (it's very visible) but when you
>look a little closer, there's nothing there.
>This applies to both products that are advertised and hyped up before
>they are actually available and to products which never get to market.
>Microsoft is the king of vaporware.
Nope...Atari is the king of vaporware. Panther...Jaguar...Sparrow...
the list goes on and on.
JP...@psuvm.psu.edu
HEY! When you include the previous article - EDIT OUT ALL UNNECESSARY
LINES!!!! I shouldn't have to page through several screens of quoting for
one line of new comment or evern several screens to find _nothing_ new at
the end! This wastes a lot of bandwidth and storage space - and, most
importantly :) - MY TIME!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Emmer "...reason has no dictatorial authority; its verdict
Philosophy, Penn State is always simply the agreement of free citizens..."
JP...@psuvm.psu.edu - Immanuel Kant, CPR, A738/B765
Now playing: Amiga: Black Crypt Genesis: Kid Chameleon SNES: Contra III
TOny M
horribly at certain points. Looking at Robocod, I don't think the Amiga can
handle Sonic (does it slow down at all on a Megadrive???)
-----TOny-----
--
Tony Marshall |
University of Warwick |"Haha, and that's where I had you fooled because it's
Coventry UK | not a ferret, it's a pig!!" - Vyvyan
es...@csv.warwick.ac.uk|
Ivan Woehr
>Really? Who's supposed to be putting it out? How would they be able to manage
>it with the Extra Halfbrite mode, the 4 (true) voice limitation, the 1 button
>joystick port, etc? Would they have all that added as extra chips in the
>hardware add-on which comes with it? Are they going to worry about the
>protection circuitry? Most importantly, are they going to have the port for the
>Mega CD? Also, how about legal hassles? Any chance of them getting sued? TTYL.
The Amiga has a two button port! Turican II takes advantage of this!
I have an Epyx 500xj joy stick that has two buttons. Normally only one button
does anything, but on Turrican II it gives you the ability to fire that wave
thing and to convert into a spiral very easily!!! Yes, Amiga has two buttons,
so where are the damn games that support it besides Turrican II? And why aren't
all Amiga joysticks two buttoned? Anybody know?
> -=]> Max <[=-
_ ------ -- -- _
/X\*Ivan Woehr*( ) -- -- ---- ---- ( ) Reply to:
//_\\ X ------ARTICLE -- ---- --AN X 1> iwo...@isis.cs.du.edu OR
\X/ \\MIGA ONLY (_) -- -- -- -- (_) 2> kessner!burner!iwoehr
--
_ ------ -- -- _
/X\*Ivan Woehr*( ) -- -- ---- ---- ( ) Reply to:
//_\\ X ------ARTICLE -- ---- --AN X 1> iwo...@isis.cs.du.edu OR
\X/ \\MIGA ONLY (_) -- -- -- -- (_) 2> kessner!burner!iwoehr
Aengus MacKenzie
buttoned joystick... I am sure there are more out there, and hopefully more
companies will start supporting it as well.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
- "If your gonna die...Die with your boots on!" -
- ded...@gate.gnu.ai.mit.edu -
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nathan W. Stehle
>In article <1992May9.0...@news.stolaf.edu> nst...@asgaard.acc.stolaf.edu (Nathan W. Stehle) writes:
>>In article <1992May8.1...@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mjb...@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown) writes:
>>>
>>>But, as I said before, the serious 512 color limitation will make the game
>>>lose a lot of it's graphic quality... and since ALL of the sounds were pure
>>>digitized audio, there will be a notable deficiency there as well (namely,
>>>the sound will SUCK!!).
>>
>>I don't think that the pallete will seriously affect the grapcics, what
>>affects the graphics are the number of colors onscreen which will then
>>affect any attempts at shading, etc.
>
>and if the Amiga version of a game had an object with detailed green shading,
>that effect goes bye-bye in the port.
This I agree with. But still, what does it matter if it can display 64 colors?
Then the use of 5 shades of green is pointless. And the colors have been
effectively used for the Genesis' capabiilites.
>
>>>>Well, I'm not sure about "flushing it down the toilet" as soon as you program
>>>>music for the Genesis. After all, it has 10 independent voices built in, and
>>>>the Mega-CD gives it an extra 8 PCM voices on top of that (basically what the
>>>>Amiga uses)
>>>
>>>We're not talking about the $500 CD-Genesis, though. We're talking about
>>>the Genesis alone and how bad it reeks compared to the Amiga ;). Ten voices
>>>seems like a lot, but you forget that when dealing with music, a lot of the
>>>time the samples (as in chords) are actually several different noises at
>>>once... and of course QUALITY simply can't stand out with FM synth. Sound FX
>>>are garbage with FM synth, as is any attempt at percussion.
>>
>>The CD will not be $500. $400 at the most, more than likely in the range of
>>$300-350. Besides, how much does an Amiga cost?
>
>I don't expect the MegaCD to cost more than $300. I'm talking about a MegaCD
>plus the required Genesis... $450 total (plus tax :). Of course, prices do
>drop eventually, but they haven't here. My Amiga, a full year ago, cost me
>$400... I've never heard of an A500 that didn't come with the RF-modulator
>(this is to someone else who said the RF-M cost like $75 [!?] ).
I have already had my Genesis for over two years and am ready for the next
step. Some people aren't or don't want tos spenfd the money which is equal-
ly fine. I put a great deal of money into video games and am a serious
player who plays quite a bit. If I didn't play as much, perhpas I wouldn't
purchase it. I also am looking forward to the RPG's for the CD player.
>
>>>The Mega CD still limits the Genesis to 512 colors... this fact alone is
>>>keeping me, and many others, from ever purchasing it.
>>
>>The games for the TG-16 that really shine are on CD, and I have seen screen
>>shots for the Genesis/Megadrive CD and they look spectacular.
>
>They are nice, but graphically they're not impressive, because most of the
>time we see those Anime characters, which traditionally use very FEW colors
>in the first place :).
>
>-Maruku
Marc J. Brown
>I've said it before, but good as Turrican 2 is, it still slows down
>horribly at certain points. Looking at Robocod, I don't think the Amiga can
>handle Sonic (does it slow down at all on a Megadrive???)
I can't understand where you get this "fact" from. Turrican II has VERY
LITTLE problems with slowdown. In fact, you have to be looking closely
to even notice them. If you run it in NTSC, yes, it does slow down quite
a bit, but I can see that you did not do this. Perhaps, then, you were
using an older Amiga? I have heard that not only does the game slow down
a bit on older Amigas, but it also does NOT present the music in its 7-voice
format.
>Tony Marshall |
-Maruku of Megawatts
Marc J. Brown
>Yes, I use the genstick, and Turrican II, R-type 2, and Apidya support the two
>buttoned joystick... I am sure there are more out there, and hopefully more
>companies will start supporting it as well.
Leander also supports both buttons (but as an option). And, IMHO, the Genesis
control pad is the ultimate joystick.
-Maruku of Megawatts
Marc J. Brown
>In article <1992May9.0...@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mjb...@lonestar.utsa.edu (Marc J. Brown) writes:
>>Right. For example, they will have fewer shades of green (8 times fewer),
>>and if the Amiga version of a game had an object with detailed green shading,
>>that effect goes bye-bye in the port.
>
>This I agree with. But still, what does it matter if it can display 64 colors?
>Then the use of 5 shades of green is pointless. And the colors have been
>effectively used for the Genesis' capabiilites.
I don't quite follow your logic here... Could you, maybe. clarify your
statement a bit? Sorry...
>I have already had my Genesis for over two years and am ready for the next
>step. Some people aren't or don't want tos spenfd the money which is equal-
>ly fine. I put a great deal of money into video games and am a serious
>player who plays quite a bit. If I didn't play as much, perhpas I wouldn't
>purchase it. I also am looking forward to the RPG's for the CD player.
I personally can't afford to pay $50+ for a lot of games (SF2 is a MAJOR
exception, since it's the only reason I paid for the SNES). If I could
afford to purchase, say, six Genesis games, I'd probably get one of the
cartridge copiers instead (great investment :). The first CD-ROM machine
I plan to get is the SNES CD-ROM, because the SNES already comes with
15-bit color, and 512 colors is simply TOO FEW. If they tried to make
SF2 for the Genesis CD-ROM, the same pallete limitations would cause the
port to stink visually (though the rest would likely be exceptional :).
-Maruku of Megawatts
Oke S
>>rtsu...@ulkyvx02.louisville.edu (Shaitan) writes:
>>>>It's vaporware, true, but all too possible.
>>> ^^^^^^^^^
>>> ?????????
>>Vaporware is software/hardware that doesn't exist. You'll see
>>widespread advertising and claims (it's very visible) but when you
>>look a little closer, there's nothing there.
>>This applies to both products that are advertised and hyped up before
>>they are actually available and to products which never get to market.
>>Microsoft is the king of vaporware.
> Nope...Atari is the king of vaporware. Panther...Jaguar...Sparrow...
>the list goes on and on.
Where have you been all your life? Didn't you know that Atari had
Jeff Minter program a load of demos for the Panther AFTER is was shelved
to show what a great machine it was? And the reason it was shelved was that
the Jaguar was even better. The Panther is most definitely NOT VAPOURWARE.
Also, the Falcon has been demonstrated in public; i.e. NOT VAPOURWARE.
--
#### ### ## ## #### ## # email: ok...@essex.ac.uk
# # # # # # # # ## #
#### # # # # # # # ##
# # # # # # # ##
#### ### # # #### # #
80% of statistics are wrong.
Ludlow Walker
Ludlow Walker
Yeah guy, you tell him....You want speed check out Speedball II.....!!!! It will blow away Sonic in the higher levels of the game!!!! Nuff said....
George McBay
>In article <rauser.7...@sfu.ca> rau...@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>Also, the Falcon has been demonstrated in public; i.e. NOT VAPOURWARE.
I beg to differ. While I have no idea whether or not the Falcon will ever
be released (Frankly I don't care) it is common for items that become
vaporware to appear in prototype form in public -- usually they are either
mockups that pretend to do what the final version will do in a limited fashion
or they are real actual versions of the product, however just because the
product exists does not mean it will ever be mass produced, you as an
Atari owner should be well aware of this fact.
--
George F. McBay -- gmc...@lynx.northeastern.edu * g...@gnu.ai.mit.edu
Simon Lee
Who said it was one or the other. It's both! :) Unlike the Genesis,
which is just a game machine. I have both, and personally, I'd play games
on the Genesis, and work on the Amiga, since all I have to do is pop in a
cart and off I go.
-Simon
--
* Simon Lee * Microscopy and Imaging Resources *
* si...@ivem.ucsd.edu * Intermediate Voltage Electron Microscopy *
* su...@ucsd.edu * UC San Diego, Dept. of Neuroscience *
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gary Bradley
nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us (Ralph Barbagallo) writes...
> Yes, I belive the Amiga version of Sonic The Hedgehog is a UK only release.
> I heard it was better than the Genesis version in graphics and playability,
> but I never played it. To get a legit copy you could try ordering from
> Sideline software...I think they have a UK import service. Other companies
> also have UK imports available.
>
> I also saw and Amiga version of Space Gun and Beast Busters in these
UK import
> catalogs!
This article made me wonder just how different the Amiga world here
in the UK is from its counterpart in the US. Would any of you American
games-players care to answer the following questions so I can get an
idea of the comparison...I have also answered the same questions from my
point of view.
1. How much does does a BASIC Amiga 500 cost?
>>> In the UK is costs about 399 pounds including a modulator allowing
TV compatability
2. What is the average price of an Amiga game (say something like Lemmings)?
>>> In the Uk most games cost 25 pounds
3. Do you have the concept of "budget games". These being old (often
very good) games which
are re-released at a lower price? (e.g in UK Turrican I now costs
7.99 pounds)
4. The following list are the current BIGGY games recentlly released in
the UK, have you seen
these in the US? --> PROJECT X, PARASOL STARS, SHADOWLANDS. (This
is my opinion of the
latest great games, incidently). If not, what are the current US big
releases?
Incidently, Space Gun and Beast Busters both suck. Both games LOOK
really close the arcade originals, but how can anyone place those
shooting type games with a mouse? I find that unless you have a gunsught
onscreen it's sheer karma if you hit anything intentionally.
Since I mentioned Project X, just thought I'd like to waffle on a bit
on this subject. This is the best Amiga horizontal shoot'em up I have
ever seen. Full digitised speech, awesome graphics, a multitude of
bolt-ons, multi-direction scolling. There is nothing even close to this
game on the market at the moment. If you ain't got it - GO GET IT NOW!!!!!
"Alien Breed" by the same house (Team 17) is really good too. It's
like playing "Aliens" (the movie) with a friend, Gauntlet style. Very
atmospheric, very creepy. And includes the infra-red strobe light dash
for the exit when you activate the station self destruct on each level.
Very very exiting - guarenteed.
Gary Bradley
Mike Rogers
>>It's vaporware, true, but all too possible.
MS Windows NT.
--
Mike Rogers,Box 6,Regent Hse,##EveryoneHasTheRightToFreedomOfOpinionAndExpressio
TCD,EIRE. <mi...@maths.tcd.ie>##nThisRightIncludesFreedomToHoldOpinionsWithoutInt
###############################erferenceAndToSeekReceiveAndImpartInformationAndI
deasThroughAnyMediaAndRegardlessOfFrontiers...#10 UN Declaration of Human Rights
Mr. R.M. Wood
|> In article <rauser.7...@sfu.ca> rau...@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
|> >
|> > Sonic on an Amiga? Yuck...I hope not. That game is way too good and fast for
|> >a computer. Computer gamers, please stick to RPGs and simulations...
|>
|> PLEASE! Don't make unconscious references to IBM when you judge computer
|> games. The Amiga is perfectly capable of handling Sonic the Hedgehog...
|> it's simply a matter of the coders doing it correctly. Let me refer you
|> (yet again) to Turrican II. It's a good example of what can happen when
|> the coders know what they're doing. It's also a good example of the type
|> of game that's TOO GOOD for the Genesis to successfully reproduce.
|>
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's a good one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mr. R.M. Wood
|> In article <rauser.7...@sfu.ca> rau...@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
|> >compte...@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
|> >>across a software listing for a mail order company. After perusing it for a
|> >>while, I noticed that they had a listing for (believe it or not) Sonic the
|> >>Hedgehog. Has anyone else heard about this? Is it actually out now, or was this
|> >>company (I can't remember who it was right now) just jumping the gun and giving
|> >>an advance listing for it? If it actually DOES exist, how good is it, and how
|> >>does it compare with the Genesis/Game Gear versions? Lastly, how could I get a
|> >>LEGIT copy of it? Thanx in advance. Matta ne.
|> >
|> > Sonic on an Amiga? Yuck...I hope not. That game is way too good and fast for
|> >a computer. Computer gamers, please stick to RPGs and simulations...
|> >
|>
|> It's got just as much horsepower as a Genesis, if not more. Another thing,
|> an Amiga is more than just a "computer". It's a "game machine" :)
|>
|>
|> --
|> * Simon Lee * Microscopy and Imaging Resources *
|> * si...@ivem.ucsd.edu * Intermediate Voltage Electron Microscopy *
|> * su...@ucsd.edu * UC San Diego, Dept. of Neuroscience *
|> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
No it hasn't. Nowhere near!
From a SNES, Megadrive and (embarrasingly) Amiga owner.
Still, it's okay for word processing.
Mr. R.M. Wood
|> > Sonic on an Amiga? Yuck...I hope not. That game is way too good and fast for
|> > a computer. Computer gamers, please stick to RPGs and simulations...
|>
|> know that not on;ly does the Amiga use the same processing chip as the Genesis,
* Yes, a Motorola 68000 but the one in the Megadrive runs just a tad faster (8 Mhz
* compared to 7.14 Mhz)
|> but it also has a series of custom chips dedicated to graphics, audio, memory
|> management, multitasking, etc., AND it has an ability to do full screen
* What? and the Megadrive doesn't? I think that the custom chips in the Megadrive
* are just a little bit better than the ones in the Amiga, don't you?
|> animation using 4096 colours at once! By all rights, the Amiga should be able
|> to blow the Genesis version right out of the water. TTYL.
* Perhaps, but Sonic on the Amiga would only use 32 colours on screen at once.
* There is no Amiga game in existence that uses 4096 colours on screen at once!
* Certainly not an arcade style game anyway.
* Oh yeah, and how many frames of full screen animation in 4096 colours do you
* think you could get into an Amiga's memory?
* Anyway, the bottom line is...
* Sonic on the Amiga would be really SAD. So there!!!
* From Bobby Maturity, England.
Simon Lee
>In article <uce14...@network.ucsd.edu>, si...@ivem.uucp (Simon Lee) writes:
>|> Obviously, you've never played a game on an Amiga, or at least a good one.
>|> It's got just as much horsepower as a Genesis, if not more. Another thing,
>|> an Amiga is more than just a "computer". It's a "game machine" :)
>
>
>From a SNES, Megadrive and (embarrasingly) Amiga owner.
>
>Still, it's okay for word processing.
It's not too hard to make a game with fast scrolling background on an Amiga
because all you're doing is animating a set of sprites (Sonic the Hedgehog),
while slapping on the background image as it scrolls from one side to the
other. The amiga has what's called the blitter that can do large memory
moves very quickly, therefore fast background scrolling. This is, of course,
assuming that the program takes over the machine. This would be necessary
to get all the power it can from the slow 68000, but the Genesis has to
use the 68000 for this purpose, and its other tasks. The Amiga has the 68000
free to do other tasks while the blitter chip handles the memory movements
(the background images) to the screen. With the program taking over the main
processor while the custom chips handle the other tasks, it gives the
amiga more power to use as the program needS.
I guess it all depends on the programmer and their knowledge of the system.
I've seen incredible scrolling demos with audio and "special effects" on the
Amiga without slowdown or anything else. Just as fast as Sonic.
32 or 64 colors, 4 or 10 voices, it doesn't matter as long as the programmer
knows how to use what they have effectively. If you've ever seen Gods for
the Amiga, my roommate couldn't believe it only used 32 colors.
Michael Robert Bromery
About people wondering about how sonic would play on an amiga. I'll try to
be as unbaised as possible about these facts. Since, being the son of one
of the FCCs respected Deputys on computer hardware, I have been on about
every system out there, excluding the atari ST. I had a good amount
of experience on IBMs, Commodore64s, and some others enough to find the
limitations. Actually, this big discussion about whether a good sonic the
hedgehog can come out on the amiga is sooo very simple. The answer is
simply yes. With the latest copper techniques that I seem to be seeing
more and more of from various companies and demos and a bit of counting,
it is very simple for amiga to do a great game such as that with very
quick response and no problems with slow downs in about 250-300 on screen
colors. Now that is NTSC signal, i can't vouch how it works in PAL.
I've seen so far about 4 games like that and I didn't even look hard, they
just popped out. Seems like everybody is learning these techniques to come
out with fast 4 level scrolling that looks very impressive. Check out
the Psygnosis game Awesome and you'll see an example since it is probably
one of the most popular of those high color games. All this computer
bashing is pointless, the question is can it be done effectively. Yes, it
can. About color, you can get away with 64 on screen colors if the amiga
conversion just wants to stick to 64, I belive 64 is enough to make those
fast moving games just as fun. True, it would be nice to see those
King's quest games in HAM, that could be done too for King's quest series
so far are in low resolution. i can't quarrantee multitasking for those
still with the 512 chip ram. Sorry, that's guarrantee. But facts are facts,
the amiga as it is with the standard on 512 chip ram games can't handle the
fast 4096 color ideals, but 200 or 300 should do it. It would be hard for
me to really get sick looking at 300 color graphics, but hey. As humans,
we are never satisfied. <grin>
I'm pretty sure IBM could get away with it too on faster machines, they
may have hardware drawbacks here and not have movements quite as smooth,
but I'm gonna have to get an ego relaxer the day I think 256 color is to
low.
Sorry for the long message, but I think
this had to be rationally cleared up. -- Michael Bromery
dave...@wam.umd.edu
Steven Joseph Chmura
>|> > Sonic on an Amiga? Yuck...I hope not. That game is way too good and fast for
>|> PLEASE! Don't make unconscious references to IBM when you judge computer
>|> games. The Amiga is perfectly capable of handling Sonic the Hedgehog...
>|> it's simply a matter of the coders doing it correctly. Let me refer you
Why is the Genesis any more capable of sonic than the amiga? The amiga has
more hardware support for scrolling and graphics. And give up on the Z80,
it went out with CPM.
--
Steven Chmura
"1-week till..
MD-2-B
George McBay
>* Yes, a Motorola 68000 but the one in the Megadrive runs just a tad faster (8 Mhz
>* compared to 7.14 Mhz)
Oh please, what about the MANY Amigas that run 25, 50, etc mHz 68030 and
040's? I have yet to see a Genesis accelerator card! (New idea! Call
GVP!)
>* What? and the Megadrive doesn't? I think that the custom chips in the Megadrive
>* are just a little bit better than the ones in the Amiga, don't you?
Nope, not even close... The Megadrive doesn't really have any nifty
custom chips like Agnus, Paula, etc, just shelf parts hacked into
doing specific jobs (like a z80 for sound control)
>* Perhaps, but Sonic on the Amiga would only use 32 colours on screen at once.
>* There is no Amiga game in existence that uses 4096 colours on screen at once!
>* Certainly not an arcade style game anyway.
>* Oh yeah, and how many frames of full screen animation in 4096 colours do you
>* think you could get into an Amiga's memory?
Wrong again, there are at least 2 action games that use 4096 (not that
that's alot) colors. Personally I think Graphics are nice as a bonus
but I'd rather have a VERY good game play than 4096 colors on screen...
It's nearly impossible to use 4096 colors anyways unless you are digitizing
the pictures, etc.
>* Anyway, the bottom line is...
>* Sonic on the Amiga would be really SAD. So there!!!
I must agree on this point, more often than not Amiga ports of Genesis
games STINK, however I've seen more than a few Genesis games that
were ported from the Amiga that stink as well, they may be pretty close
in hardware but the games ALWAYS lose something in the translation...
Sonic was made for the Genesis, it wouldn't be very fun on the Amiga (IMO)
especially if some knock-off company like US Gold did the port...
Oddly enough I recently played a 1 level demo of "The Addams Family" by Ocean.
This is without a doubt one of the most fun cutsy platform games I've
ever played on any system (Including Sonic and Mickey Mouse on the Genesis
and The Mario Bros Series (I've never played MB4 yet, so no comment there..)
Anyways...
Steven Joseph Chmura
>|> management, multitasking, etc., AND it has an ability to do full screen
>* What? and the Megadrive doesn't? I think that the custom chips in the Megadrive
>* are just a little bit better than the ones in the Amiga, don't you?
Sonic plays in the Genesis. We are not talking about the CD thing not
out in the states. The base Genesis has very little hardware to compete
with the amiga. Shit for color ect. Please ask Mike Schwartz about this. He
has done games for both machines.
>|> animation using 4096 colours at once! By all rights, the Amiga should be able
>|> to blow the Genesis version right out of the water. TTYL.
>* Perhaps, but Sonic on the Amiga would only use 32 colours on screen at once.
>* There is no Amiga game in existence that uses 4096 colours on screen at once!
>* Certainly not an arcade style game anyway.
>* Oh yeah, and how many frames of full screen animation in 4096 colours do you
>* think you could get into an Amiga's memory?
You have shown your ignorance. The eye percievs contrast and color. The amiga
has far more shades of color and thus will be pereived to have a higher
resolution. Many amiga games use far more than 32 colors. Look at Turrican,
SOTB, SOTBII, ect... In fact all the new Psygnosis games use 128 or 256
colors on screen from a huge pallette.
How many frames of anim ... what???? Have you ever written one line
of code other than basic? Games do not store frames. They move images
and parts of frames which are compressed in some from. For example the
ANIM format stores the change in frame info only. Thus huge compression can
be attained.
Anf by the way, to get 4096 colors in ham requires 6 bits. The same number
of bits as you almighty Genesis.
>* Anyway, the bottom line is...
>* Sonic on the Amiga would be really SAD. So there!!!
No, if they give you a degree that would be sad.
>* From Bobby Maturity, England.
Divine
with an RF modulator: I've never seen one that did!! (although I know that
you could get one with it)
/ \ / /| / \
/ Jim Divine \ / / | _ / I'm Bored \
\ mi...@iastate.edu / \ \/ /--| |\/| | / |\ \ with Civilization /
\ / \/\/ | | | | \_| |-\ \ /
Michael Robert Bromery
An apology on one thing about the synopsis of the big Sonic Question.
The game I wanted to refer from Psygnosis was Agony and not Awesome.
I got my A games from Psygnosis mixed up there. Sorry for anyone I
accidentally shocked with that last post.
davereed@wam
The davester
writin a news post.
The davemeister.
Simon Lee
>>>* There is no Amiga game in existence that uses 4096 colours on screen at once!
>>>* Certainly not an arcade style game anyway.
You're incorrect. I've seen a space shoot'em up in HAM mode. It was a dumb
game, but nevertheless, there was at least one.
>>>* Oh yeah, and how many frames of full screen animation in 4096 colours do you
>>>* think you could get into an Amiga's memory?
Depends. How much memory does this amiga have :) Anyway, a HAM mode Sonic
replica would be a feat, since this is much more data to shovel through the
bus than a 32 color image.
>I don't know about huge compression, but I do know that scrolling of
>background and such is NOT based on still frames, nor is it based on anims.
My mistake. A lot of programs DO use still frames (which are bitmaps), they are
just very large or smaller frames that have been "tiled" together, in which
the program "scrolls" through. Others uses icon like images places next to
each other (Ultima like), and scrolled through, but all these techniques do
the same thing in that they are stored in a large chunk of memory (for speed
sake), and just blitted (transfered from memory) to video memory, where it's
displayed on screen.
As for flickering objects, they can be un-flickered if double buffering is
used, which I'm sure the CAPCOM programmers are doing with SFII for SNES since
the darn machine's processor is so slow.
TOny M
slowdown occurs whenever there are 'moving character graphics' (like the
waterfalls) on-screen with about 3 enemy sprites (ok, it sounds fussy, but it
does spoil the 'all powerful' image of the Amiga). Still, I find the game very
enjoyable to play, and the spaceship sections really are incredible.
TOny M
>
> Yeah guy, you tell him....You want speed check out Speedball II.....!!!! It will blow away Sonic in the higher levels of the game!!!! Nuff said....
Speedball 2??! don't make me laugh. Obviously the Bitmap Brothers haven't
heard of 50hz hardware scrolling (and why does the game not allow you to
expand the screen to full overscan like the original?).
George McBay
>>>>* Oh yeah, and how many frames of full screen animation in 4096 colours do you
>>>>* think you could get into an Amiga's memory?
>
>Depends. How much memory does this amiga have :) Anyway, a HAM mode Sonic
>replica would be a feat, since this is much more data to shovel through the
>bus than a 32 color image.
All this talk of using HAM in Sonic is kind of wasted bandwidth...
I've played Sonic to the end on a Genesis (My first complaint about SOnic
is that it's too damn easy even getting all the emeralds) and it could be
done with 32 colors easy if the right palette was used...In most parts
Sonic doesnt even use that many visably different colors, the only
part that might be tough with the color restriction is the chaos emerald
scenes... When talking about Sonic the only factor to consider is *speed*
which is what makes sonic sonic... Could the amiga do it? Definatly..
Would the port lose a lot in the translation, unless it was done by a
company (or person) that knew the amiga inside and out and was very
experiences in making ports? Yes....
Just so you don't get the wrong idea, I'm a diehard amiga fan :)
I used to own a Genesis but eventually sold it because the games cost
too damn much (About $50-75 compared with $5-45 or so on amiga) and
alot of games for it just weren't fun... I'd rather see programmers do
original groundbreaking fun games on the amiga than port everything...
Gary Bradley
Why oh why is this newsgroup being swamped by arguments comparing the
Amiga to the Genesis? This is a GAMES newsgroup - stop it! Or take it
elsewhere...PLEASE????
Gary.
compte...@camins.camosun.bc.ca
> * are just a little bit better than the ones in the Amiga, don't you?
No, it doesn't. The only chips that the Megadrive has in it are chips that any
idiot can get pretty much anywhere, but the Amiga chips were designed by
Commodore exclusively for use in the Amiga.
> * Perhaps, but Sonic on the Amiga would only use 32 colours on screen at once.
No, it would use at least 64, like the Genesis version.
> * There is no Amiga game in existence that uses 4096 colours on screen at once!
Maybe not, but it's still possible for someone to make one that uses all 4096
colours on the screen at once. The most the Genesis could EVER hope for is 64.
If they found a way to use HAM techniques on the Genesis somehow, that would
STILL limit the on screen colours to 512, as opposed to 4096 for the Amiga.
> * Oh yeah, and how many frames of full screen animation in 4096 colours do you
> * think you could get into an Amiga's memory?
All I can say is that if you think people program games by making pictures for
every possible frame that could ever exist in that game, then you better not
try programming any of your own. How many frames do you think they could fit
into the memory of the Genesis at once? The Genesis only has 64 kilobits of
memory on board, while the Amiga 500 comes in the box with 4 MEGAbits on board,
AND you could also get an A501 expander for only about $30 new at the most
which expands the memory of the A500 to EIGHT Megabits - enough to fit the
Genesis version of Strider into memory!
> * Anyway, the bottom line is...
> * Sonic on the Amiga would be really SAD. So there!!!
Ooooooh! I'm scared! (Not!) Would you care to explain HOW it would be "sad"?
TTYL.
-=]> Max <[=-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kan peki da. KAN PEKI DA. A-Ko, anata wa shinu no yo.
Shinu no yo! SHIIIIIIIINUUUUUUUU NOOOOOOO YOOOOOOO!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
compte...@camins.camosun.bc.ca
> without resorting to HAM mode or the extra half-bright mode. In fact, if the
Incorrect. Using copper lists (don't ask me how they work, I have absolutely NO
idea), you can get a lot more as someone else said before. Also, if you want to
resort to using rainbow effects, you could get up to 401 colours in hires using
only a single bitplane, which (obviously) is WAY to small to allow for any HAM
style graphics. Matta ne.
Steven Joseph Chmura
>In article <1992May12.0...@news.cso.uiuc.edu> sjc2...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Steven Joseph Chmura) writes:
>>has far more shades of color and thus will be pereived to have a higher
>>resolution. Many amiga games use far more than 32 colors. Look at Turrican,
>>SOTB, SOTBII, ect... In fact all the new Psygnosis games use 128 or 256
>>colors on screen from a huge pallette.
>I know you meant well, but you are incorrect on the Amiga. True, because the
>amiga has a larger selection of colors to choose from (4096 vs. 512), having
>only 32 colors on screen at a time may look like many more, especially if the
>gradient from one shade to the next is small. If the transition is large,
>such is the case with having only 512 colors to choose from, then you get the
The point is that most game use the copper to give far greater than 64 colors.
Many of the games discussed here do that. This takes almost 0 CPU time
to accomplish.
>I don't know about huge compression, but I do know that scrolling of
>background and such is NOT based on still frames, nor is it based on anims.
>Most background images are bitmaps stored in memory, whether from compressed
>image files or otherwise. These bitmaps take up most of the games memory
>usage, and the program justs "scrolls" through this memory by way of block
>memory transfers to the video display memory (chip ram in the amiga).
Yes, the original poster said something about how much anim can you put
into a 512K chip ram...
Simon Lee
>> can be reduced. By the way, the Amiga can ONLY display at the most 32 colors
>> without resorting to HAM mode or the extra half-bright mode. In fact, if the
>
>Incorrect. Using copper lists (don't ask me how they work, I have absolutely NO
>idea), you can get a lot more as someone else said before. Also, if you want to
>resort to using rainbow effects, you could get up to 401 colours in hires using
>only a single bitplane, which (obviously) is WAY to small to allow for any HAM
>style graphics. Matta ne.
That mode is called Dynamic HAM. It is basically a high res interlaced
screen using 16 different colors per scan line out of the 4096 color palette.
This results in a much color-er :) looking image, but it takes too much
of the machine's power to be of any use for games. At least with HAM, you
could write a game with a HAM background and a sprite on the foreground.
Mr. R.M. Wood
|> The Amiga has a two button port! Turican II takes advantage of this!
|> I have an Epyx 500xj joy stick that has two buttons. Normally only one button
|> does anything, but on Turrican II it gives you the ability to fire that wave
|> thing and to convert into a spiral very easily!!! Yes, Amiga has two buttons,
|> so where are the damn games that support it besides Turrican II? And why aren't
|> all Amiga joysticks two buttoned? Anybody know?
Turrican, Turrican II, R-Type and Z-Out are the only Amiga games I know of that
support a two button joystick.
Marc J. Brown
>>>Some more Genesis/Amiga conversion we could add to the list are
>>>James Pond, James Pond II: Codename Robocod, and Fatal Rewind. I personally
>>>prefer the original name for it: The Killing Game Show. The name just fits in a
>>>lot better with the game description, IMHO.
>>
>> Agreed. And where was the short animation at the begninning? GONE? HAHAHA!
>
>Ummm... which "short animation" might you be referring to?
There was an animation for the game. At least it wass resident on the demo
of the game, so I figured they'd have it on the game itself ('cause it was
pretty decent).
>
>The Genesis is quite capable of playing digitized sound effects. For example,
>take the very first Genesis cartridge out. That one had quite a few digitized
>sound effects. Good luck trying to make Neff say "Welcome to your doom!" just
>using synthesis.
Yeah, I knew it could. Shame the quality is below SoundBlaster quality...
in fact, they often decide to turn all the music off just so they can send
through the digitized sound... (Altered Beast and Thunder Force II come to
mind... Golden Axe... others).
>
>> I didn't think Turrican II had a massive downgrade in quality. Remember,
>
>I haven't seen that one. How many voices does it use?
Seven.
>> the Amiga's sound is the highest 8-bit audio you can get so far (51 Mhz), so
>> the quality loss isn't quite as severe as, say, when you play mods through
>> a piece-o-crud 22 Mhz SoundBlaster :).
>
>That's all it is right now? I thought it would have been higher than that.
Nope, that's "all".
>Anyhow, shouldn't that be "K"Hz?
Yeah yeah, so I was tired when I wrote it :). At least you didn't use my
mistake to your argumentive advantage (which is a REAL lame thing to do, imho).
>Well, how about us poor saps who don't HAVE a new Paula chip yet? So, how
>EXACTLY do you increase the number of voices on the Amiga?
Code a splicing routine. Or use someone else's. Anyway, it's a hack (but
coprocessors do help a LOT).
>
>> The Mega CD still limits the Genesis to 512 colors... this fact alone is
>> keeping me, and many others, from ever purchasing it.
>
>True, but it gives the "Genesick" as you call it the ability to do true scaling
>and rotation in hardware, unlike the Amiga, AND it also has another processor
>running IN PARALLEL for an extra 12.5 MHz.
For a $300 games machine, I would hope so. Actually, the SNES's stats blow
it away in a major way. (CD-ROM).
>
>I thought the graphics on the "Lemmings" series of games were fantastic! Sure,
>they didn't have super massive animated end bosses filling up the entire
>screen, but the background graphics (on the Amiga version) were incredible! Add
>to that the digitized samples and the awesome (no pun intended) sountrack and
>you've got a game that's tough to beat.
Idunno. It's kinda fun, I'll give it that :).
>> Realtime splicing... which is apparently a cinch because they're dealing with
>> FM synth sound rather than digitized.
>
>Maybe so, but how would someone (like me, for instance) be able to do it?
I really do not know the formulas you'd have to implement. Use someone else's
splicing routine :).
>Such as? The only Amiga games I've seen use 1 button and 1 button ONLY.
Leander, Turrican2, Apidya... check some older posts. Many games I didn't even
know supported 2 buttons (because I don't have them all, ya know :).
>Guess who said that? :-) Matta ne.
B-ko? It would make sense...
| "Starting mid-June, every Amiga owner will be able to 100% emulate ANY" ///|
| "microcomputer, be it Quattro or AT486, thanks to Utilities Unltd." /// |
| "E-mail me if you want details and I'll mail you the info I have." \\\/// |
| -Maruku Buranu (Marc Brown) mjb...@lonestar.utsa.edu >8^D HA! \XX/ |
Marc J. Brown
>In reference to your statement that you've never seen an A500 that didn't come
>with an RF modulator: I've never seen one that did!! (although I know that
>you could get one with it)
Hmm... All I know is that in the half-year of drooling before I got my Amiga,
every magazine ad I called and every store I visited had the A500 "package"
with the A500, RF-mod, and 3 pieces-o-crap software (Tetris, Carmen Sandidego,
and something else)... I finally got the pack at McDuffs for $400 and they
included a free (heheh) 1200 baud modem (and boy was *I* jumping for joy :).
| "Starting mid-June, every Amiga owner will be able to 100% emulate ANY" ///|
| "microcomputer, be it Quattro or AT486, thanks to Utilities Unltd." /// |
| "E-mail me if you want details and I'll mail you the info I have." \\\/// |
| -Maruku Buranu (Marc Brown) mjb...@lonestar.utsa.edu >8^D HA! \XX/ |
(Finally got that sig to work :)
Paul Trauth
up c.s.a.games; i'm sure most r.g.video readers are also tired of it.
How about moving it to
comp.sys.amiga.rules.no.it.doesnt.yes.it.does.does.not.does.too.does.not.doe
s.too or the like? Please?
-- Via DLG Pro v0.991
- be zorch, daddi-o --------------- paul (raccoon) trauth ----------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet -> paul_...@agwbbs.new-orleans.LA.US \\\///\\\///\\\
Usenet -> rex!agwbbs!paul_trauth \\\///\\\///\\\
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"eagles may fly, but a weasel will never get sucked into a jet engine"
Glenn Doiron
>> Sonic on an Amiga? Yuck...I hope not. That game is way too good and fast for
>
>What's the matter? Don't you think the Amiga could handle it? I'll have you
>know that not on;ly does the Amiga use the same processing chip as the Genesis,
>management, multitasking, etc., AND it has an ability to do full screen
>to blow the Genesis version right out of the water. TTYL.
BULL. The Amiga's sprite generator sucks m***eba**s compared to the Genesis.
Now, I'd like to see a version for the TI boards, though.
Glenn Doiron
--
Amiga UUCP+
Origin: uunet!starpt!doiron (Organization:68K Software Development)
BIX: gdoiron
** Not enough memory to perform requested operation. Add 4 megs and retry.
Glenn Doiron
[zap]
>>This applies to both products that are advertised and hyped up before
>>they are actually available and to products which never get to market.
>>Microsoft is the king of vaporware.
>
>
> Nope...Atari is the king of vaporware. Panther...Jaguar...Sparrow...
>the list goes on and on.
BZZZT! M.A.S.T. is king of vaporware.
compte...@camins.camosun.bc.ca
> of the game, so I figured they'd have it on the game itself ('cause it was
> pretty decent).
Yes, yes, I know that, but WHICH game were you referring to? JP, JP2, or KGS?
>>Well, how about us poor saps who don't HAVE a new Paula chip yet? So, how
>>EXACTLY do you increase the number of voices on the Amiga?
>
> Code a splicing routine. Or use someone else's. Anyway, it's a hack (but
> coprocessors do help a LOT).
Well, duh, but how does one go about doing that? Give us an algorithm, will
you?
> B-ko? It would make sense...
Absolutely correct! Give the man a prize! Let's see... Aha! I've got it! For
your prize, you get a date with the Lovely Angels, all expenses paid! (the rest
of you, GET OFF THE PLANET WHILE YOU STILL CAN!) :-) Matta ne.
Arnulf Guenther
No, it doesn't. The only chips that the Megadrive has in it are chips that any
idiot can get pretty much anywhere, but the Amiga chips were designed by
Commodore exclusively for use in the Amiga.
Don't adorn CBM with lorbeers they don't have earned. The chips were
designed by Jay Miner & his crew for Amiga Inc.
Greetinx, -Arnulf
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kan peki da. KAN PEKI DA. A-Ko, anata wa shinu no yo.
Shinu no yo! SHIIIIIIIINUUUUUUUU NOOOOOOO YOOOOOOO!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's that? Sounds (read/sound ?) to me like the Akira CD.
--
Arnulf Guenther (a...@first.gmd.de)
John E. Todd
>In article <rauser.7...@sfu.ca> rau...@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>>>A while back when I was flipping through a back issue of Amiga World, I came
>>>across a software listing for a mail order company. After perusing it for a
>>>while, I noticed that they had a listing for (believe it or not) Sonic the
>>>Hedgehog. Has anyone else heard about this? Is it actually out now, or was this
>>>company (I can't remember who it was right now) just jumping the gun and giving
>>>an advance listing for it? If it actually DOES exist, how good is it, and how
>>>does it compare with the Genesis/Game Gear versions? Lastly, how could I get a
>>>LEGIT copy of it? Thanx in advance. Matta ne.
>>
>> Sonic on an Amiga? Yuck...I hope not. That game is way too good and fast for
>>a computer. Computer gamers, please stick to RPGs and simulations...
>>
>
|
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha - what planet is he living on ?????
They obviously don't have AMIGA's there ! After 3, everybody laugh,
1 ................ 2 ................ 3 HA HA ha ha ......... !
>Obviously, you've never played a game on an Amiga, or at least a good one.
>It's got just as much horsepower as a Genesis, if not more. Another thing,
>an Amiga is more than just a "computer". It's a "game machine" :)
>
>-Simon
>
Yo Simon, what a dude ! Sock it to 'em man !!!!!
Steven Joseph Chmura
>|> has done games for both machines.
>|> >* Perhaps, but Sonic on the Amiga would only use 32 colours on screen at once.
>|> >* There is no Amiga game in existence that uses 4096 colours on screen at once!
>|> >* Certainly not an arcade style game anyway.
>|> >* Oh yeah, and how many frames of full screen animation in 4096 colours do you
>|> >* think you could get into an Amiga's memory?
>|>
How many can you get into a ROM-cart without it costing $200.
>|> SOTB, SOTBII, ect... In fact all the new Psygnosis games use 128 or 256
>|> colors on screen from a huge pallette.
>** 256 colours in an Amiga arcade game (ie. scrolling and that) ??? Don't make me
>** laugh! There is NO WAY that is true!!!
Are you claiming that Psygnosis lies? Please read the box and play the
game. I am sure you can tell that there are far more than 32 colors.
Look, for example, at the graded filled background in SOTB. The blend from
blue to pink is perfect.
>** FULL SCREEN ANIMATION, not animation of sprites in a game or something! I was just
>** making the point that you could not fit many full screen frames of animation into
>** an Amiga's memory without tonnes of compression. You see the guy had stopped
>** talking about games and was listing the Amiga's features. Very simple really.
Look, the amiga and the Genesis both can do 6-bit color. The genesis, with
6-bits gives 64 colors. The Amiga gives 4096. Thus, your point is moot.
Also, copper can change the pallete every 2 scan-lines with <nil CPU time.
>|> Anf by the way, to get 4096 colors in ham requires 6 bits. The same number
>|> of bits as you almighty Genesis.
>|>
>** I have an Amiga too, you know!
Then you should be aware that bits=memory - Not color...
>|> >* Anyway, the bottom line is...
>I stand more chance of getting a degree in computer science than you do at
>getting one in English, matey!!!
Actually I was a double major in college. English/Biology. Sorry if my spelling
in these posts sucks - this NeXT has a broken backspacve key.
Since when is "matey" a proper name to call someone.
Mr. R.M. Wood
|> scs...@csc.liv.ac.uk (Mr. R.M. Wood) writes:
** I agree totally though!
|> >|> > Sonic on an Amiga? Yuck...I hope not. That game is way too good and fast for
|> >|> PLEASE! Don't make unconscious references to IBM when you judge computer
|> >|> games. The Amiga is perfectly capable of handling Sonic the Hedgehog...
|> >|> it's simply a matter of the coders doing it correctly. Let me refer you
|> Why is the Genesis any more capable of sonic than the amiga? The amiga has
|> more hardware support for scrolling and graphics. And give up on the Z80,
|> it went out with CPM.
The Amiga came out in 1985, the Megadrive (Genesis) came out in 1988. The
Megadrive was designed to be by far the best games machine around (otherwise
there would have been no point in releasing it), so WHY WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER
THAN THE AMIGA??? Of course it is!!! The Amiga DOES NOT have "more hardware
support for scrolling and graphics". It simply isn't true! What are you guys on?
You only have to look at the best games from each system and compare the graphics!
Look at Robocod, the Megadrive version has super-fast super-smooth parallax
scrolling in the full screen area available to it. The Amiga version is in a
smaller screen area, with some feeble HAM background and the scrolling when
Robocod jumps is appaulingly jerky!!! And yet everyone in the Amiga community
agreed that the graphics were outstanding for an Amiga game! Games like Turrican
II, Robocod and Gods all use the same style of HAM backgrounds to give a false
sense of parallax scrolling wheras Megadrive games have proper parallax
backgrounds with proper features and things on them and this is because the AMIGA
CAN'T HANDLE DECENT PARALLAX SCROLLING, like almost every Megadrive game I've
ever seen does so easily.
Oh yeah, and as for the Amiga's software emulation of the Megadrive... how can
the Amiga emulate in software a machine that runs games far superior graphically
to the very best Amiga games. Doooooh! The Amiga may have a blitter which throws
memory around and handles scrolling without burdening the processor but it is
obvious that the Megadrive must have something similar (some other kind of
hardware scrolling) which actually does the job a hell of a lot better than the
Amiga's blitter.
By the way, I own a SNES, Megadrive AND an Amiga, so I'm not just a Megadrive
owner going green with envy (ho-ho) at the sight of all the good games on the
Amiga and seeking to make myself feel better by putting it down. I have played
loads of games on both systems and the Megadrive is simply far better graphically.
By the Ace-Gamesplayer Bobby!!!
P.S. Is the sound on the SNES 16-bit?
Mr. R.M. Wood
|> scs...@csc.liv.ac.uk (Mr. R.M. Wood) writes:
|> >|> but it also has a series of custom chips dedicated to graphics, audio, memory
|> >|> management, multitasking, etc., AND it has an ability to do full screen
|> >* What? and the Megadrive doesn't? I think that the custom chips in the Megadrive
|> >* are just a little bit better than the ones in the Amiga, don't you?
|>
|> Sonic plays in the Genesis. We are not talking about the CD thing not
|> out in the states. The base Genesis has very little hardware to compete
|> with the amiga. Shit for color ect. Please ask Mike Schwartz about this. He
|> has done games for both machines.
** Look, the base Genesis is called a MEGADRIVE in England, and I was NOT talking
** about the MEGA-CD which is what the CD-ROM unit for the MEGADRIVE is called, so
** just check your facts before spouting, okay?
|> >|> animation using 4096 colours at once! By all rights, the Amiga should be able
|> >|> to blow the Genesis version right out of the water. TTYL.
|>
|> >* Perhaps, but Sonic on the Amiga would only use 32 colours on screen at once.
|> >* There is no Amiga game in existence that uses 4096 colours on screen at once!
|> >* Certainly not an arcade style game anyway.
|> >* Oh yeah, and how many frames of full screen animation in 4096 colours do you
|> >* think you could get into an Amiga's memory?
|>
|> You have shown your ignorance. The eye percievs contrast and color. The amiga
|> has far more shades of color and thus will be pereived to have a higher
|> resolution. Many amiga games use far more than 32 colors. Look at Turrican,
|> SOTB, SOTBII, ect... In fact all the new Psygnosis games use 128 or 256
|> colors on screen from a huge pallette.
** 256 colours in an Amiga arcade game (ie. scrolling and that) ??? Don't make me
** laugh! There is NO WAY that is true!!!
|> How many frames of anim ... what???? Have you ever written one line
|> of code other than basic? Games do not store frames. They move images
|> and parts of frames which are compressed in some from. For example the
|> ANIM format stores the change in frame info only. Thus huge compression can
|> be attained.
|>
**You are driving me up the wall!!! The guy I was replying to said,
**
** "AND it has an ability to do full screen animation using 4096 colours at once!"
**
** FULL SCREEN ANIMATION, not animation of sprites in a game or something! I was just
** making the point that you could not fit many full screen frames of animation into
** an Amiga's memory without tonnes of compression. You see the guy had stopped
** talking about games and was listing the Amiga's features. Very simple really.
|> Anf by the way, to get 4096 colors in ham requires 6 bits. The same number
|> of bits as you almighty Genesis.
|>
** I have an Amiga too, you know!
|> >* Anyway, the bottom line is...
|> >* Sonic on the Amiga would be really SAD. So there!!!
|>
|> No, if they give you a degree that would be sad.
|>
** Or "now", even.
I stand more chance of getting a degree in computer science than you do at
getting one in English, matey!!!
|> >* From Bobby Maturity, England.
|> --
|> Steven Chmura
|> "1-week till..
|> MD-2-B
** Another Scorcher from Ace-Gamesplayer Bobby!!!
Marc J. Brown
>scs...@csc.liv.ac.uk (Mr. R.M. Wood) writes:
>>** 256 colours in an Amiga arcade game (ie. scrolling and that) ??? Don't make me
>>** laugh! There is NO WAY that is true!!!
>
>Are you claiming that Psygnosis lies? Please read the box and play the
>game. I am sure you can tell that there are far more than 32 colors.
>Look, for example, at the graded filled background in SOTB. The blend from
>blue to pink is perfect.
Before he gets to laugh it up (by reminding you that he was talking about
256 color Amiga games, not 64-color with copper), let me refer him to
Agony, which uses something like 200 or 300 colors while playing.
>>I stand more chance of getting a degree in computer science than you do at
>>getting one in English, matey!!!
>
>Actually I was a double major in college. English/Biology. Sorry if my spelling
>in these posts sucks - this NeXT has a broken backspacve key.
Don't sweat it; his childish personal attack actually served to A) inform
us of his moral standing (which is not good), and B) indicate his decidedly
weak positioning in this argument.
>Since when is "matey" a proper name to call someone.
When one is a drunken sailor, perhaps? :)
| "Starting mid-July, every Amiga owner will be able to 100% emulate ANY ///|
| microcomputer, be it Quadra or AT486, thanks to Utilities Unltd. /// |
| Send me your E-mail address and I'll mail you the info I have." \\\/// |
compte...@camins.camosun.bc.ca
> support for scrolling and graphics". It simply isn't true! What are you guys on?
The question is, what are YOU on? Obviously you haven't so much as opened your
Amiga owners manual, assuming you even have one. However, assuming you do, try
opening up your Amiga manual (Intro to the A(whatever)) to Appendix A.
> You only have to look at the best games from each system and compare the graphics!
> Look at Robocod, the Megadrive version has super-fast super-smooth parallax
> scrolling in the full screen area available to it. The Amiga version is in a
> smaller screen area, with some feeble HAM background and the scrolling when
> Robocod jumps is appaulingly jerky!!! And yet everyone in the Amiga community
> agreed that the graphics were outstanding for an Amiga game!
Are you serious? I'm trying very hard to control myself and not slice you to
ribbons, but you're making it VERY hard. Just how could you POSSIBLY consider
HAM graphics feeble? I dunno... Maybe you're thinking of that oh so "awesome"
SuperVGA that IBMers are always bragging about. Anyhow, I never claimed that
the graphics were astounding. The major graphics aren't exactly bottom of the
barrel, but the graphics used for the backgrounds severely downgrade the
graphics overall on the Amiga version. The only reason they did that was so
they could fir all the levels for the game on 1 disk. Considering how massive
the game is, that's pretty impressive, regardless of how pathetic the
background graphics are.
> Games like Turrican II, Robocod and Gods all use the same style of HAM
> backgrounds to give a false sense of parallax scrolling wheras Megadrive
> games have proper parallax backgrounds with proper features and things on
> them and this is because the AMIGA CAN'T HANDLE DECENT PARALLAX SCROLLING,
> like almost every Megadrive game I've ever seen does so easily.
*Sigh!* Your ignorance is truly amazing. I won't even bother responding to this
comment again.
> Oh yeah, and as for the Amiga's software emulation of the Megadrive... how can
> the Amiga emulate in software a machine that runs games far superior graphically
> to the very best Amiga games. Doooooh! The Amiga may have a blitter which throws
> memory around and handles scrolling without burdening the processor but it is
> obvious that the Megadrive must have something similar (some other kind of
> hardware scrolling) which actually does the job a hell of a lot better than the
> Amiga's blitter.
No... The only reason it seems this way is because all the Amiga programmers
out there are idiots and don't even bother taking advantage of the Amiga's
inherent capabilities (except for DMA Design and Reflections), while
programmers for the Sega Genesis put in the maximum possible effort into the
system and continuously look for new ways to push the Genesis to the limits.
They have to if they want to win the Seal of Approval from Sega, while the
Amiga programmers don't have anything similar to worry about. As far as I'm
concerned, the only people that actually do decent programming for the Amiga
are the afforementioned companies and the programmers of Eurodemos.
> By the way, I own a SNES, Megadrive AND an Amiga, so I'm not just a Megadrive
> owner going green with envy (ho-ho) at the sight of all the good games on the
> Amiga and seeking to make myself feel better by putting it down. I have played
> loads of games on both systems and the Megadrive is simply far better graphically.
The only reason it seems that way, as I mentioned before, is the difference in
the effort that the programmers put into programming stuff for each system. I
also had a Genesis system at one time and I also like the games they've made
for it, but I'm basing all my arguments on each system's specifications and not
just which looks better. As soon as the programmers for the Amiga get off their
asses and start programming stuff which takes full advantage of the Amiga's
hardware, the games for the Amiga will blow the shit out of anything that the
Megadrive/Genesis can do now or in the future.
TOny M
>
>The Amiga came out in 1985, the Megadrive (Genesis) came out in 1988. The
>Megadrive was designed to be by far the best games machine around (otherwise
>there would have been no point in releasing it), so WHY WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER
>THAN THE AMIGA??? Of course it is!!! The Amiga DOES NOT have "more hardware
>support for scrolling and graphics". It simply isn't true! What are you guys on?
>You only have to look at the best games from each system and compare the graphics!
>Look at Robocod, the Megadrive version has super-fast super-smooth parallax
>scrolling in the full screen area available to it. The Amiga version is in a
>smaller screen area, with some feeble HAM background and the scrolling when
>Robocod jumps is appaulingly jerky!!! And yet everyone in the Amiga community
>agreed that the graphics were outstanding for an Amiga game! Games like Turrican
Well I didn't - I thought they were appalling . Anything which jerks with 2
or more 'sprites' on-screen deserves to go in the bin, no matter how
nice the rest of the graphics are!.
>II, Robocod and Gods all use the same style of HAM backgrounds to give a false
>sense of parallax scrolling wheras Megadrive games have proper parallax
>backgrounds with proper features and things on them and this is because the AMIGA
>CAN'T HANDLE DECENT PARALLAX SCROLLING, like almost every Megadrive game I've
>ever seen does so easily.
Sorry, but they are not HAM backgrounds (copper list splits or something -
changing the value of colour X every line I think). Decent Amiga
parallax scrolling is hard to come by, but can be achieved (although I have
yet to see a decent 32-colour multidirectional scrolling one)..
Nathan W. Stehle
PLEASE? It has been informative and fun, but now it is no longer so.
Nathan
nst...@acc.stolaf.edu
Joel The Pharoah Hammond-Turner
< Lots of opinions deleted... 9->
>agreed that the graphics were outstanding for an Amiga game! Games like Turrican
>II, Robocod and Gods all use the same style of HAM backgrounds to give a false
>sense of parallax scrolling wheras Megadrive games have proper parallax
>backgrounds with proper features and things on them and this is because the AMIGA
>CAN'T HANDLE DECENT PARALLAX SCROLLING, like almost every Megadrive game I've
>ever seen does so easily.
>
Um... excuse me, but have you ever seen Shadow of the Beast on the Amiga?
If I remember correctly, it had 15 level paralax scrolling with the gameplay
on level 2 or 3... (paralax levels are the number of sections that move at
different speeds)
>
>By the Ace-Gamesplayer Bobby!!!
>
>
>P.S. Is the sound on the SNES 16-bit?
Besides which, why has this thread got into an Amiga-bashing
session on an Amiga newsgroup? Give it a rest guys, it's all just wasted
bandwidth.
Again - my two-penneth...
Joel
--
.------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| Joel Hammond-Turner MicroSword Software, 17 Stonehouse Close |
| jr_h...@uk.ac.brispoly.csd Combe Down, Bath. BA2 5DP (0225) 835400 |
`------------------------------------------------------------------------'
Cedric Beust
>In article <rauser.7...@sfu.ca> rau...@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>>rdip...@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) writes:
>[zap]
>>>This applies to both products that are advertised and hyped up before
>>>they are actually available and to products which never get to market.
>>>Microsoft is the king of vaporware.
>>
>>
>> Nope...Atari is the king of vaporware. Panther...Jaguar...Sparrow...
>>the list goes on and on.
>
>BZZZT! M.A.S.T. is king of vaporware.
Wrong again!
Cyleon is king of vaporware. It's so much vaporware that no one
even knows the name.
;-)
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Cedric BEUST University of Nice |
| INET: be...@aurora.unice.fr $whoami |
| UUCP: llaor.unice.fr!arkonis!beust god (personal alias) |
| // -- "To be, or not to be...", |
| \\// Only That is illogical, captain! f U cn rd dis |
| \/ Amiga! -- Spock U mst uz Unix |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
SHUK C YIP
if it is ported by some company like Psynosis, it can be as good as
MegaDrive version. If it is ported by some company like US GOLD, it will
be another garbage. Sega, the most impressive port is GOLDEN AXE. It is
an above average port. So, I think it depends on which programming team
they chose to port the Amiga version.
Gary Bradley
If Golden Axe is the best Sega port to the Amiga, Sega should give it
up now. This game is dross! The arcade original isn't a good starting
point though. I used to play it and liked it a bit, but I got bored
cause it got too hard when you face Death=Adder. I mean I got to the
last scene, why should I spend #10.00 to kill the final bad guy??
Anyway, the Amiga version has the opposite problem - it's too damn easy.
I hadn't played GA for years when I got the Amiga version, and I
completed on my first game!!!!
-- Gary
SHUK C YIP
>
>But I disagree that is Psygnosis did it, that it would be good. Psygnosis is
>the MOST overrated publisher in the world. Shadow of the Beast, while one of
>the most impressive games I ever saw, sucked. Some newer stuff has been good,
>but give em a minute, and they'll turn out more trash. Something as playable
>as Sonic by Psygnosis? I hardly think it possible.
How about TEAM-17? Their latest product PROJECT X has been rated as the
best shoot'em up in Amiga game market.
Paul Trauth
> I agree that if a good company ports it, it can be done very well. I see
the
> chances of this as very slim. No good programmer wants to have the
threat of a
> less than perfect port.
>
> But I disagree that is Psygnosis did it, that it would be good.
Psygnosis is
> the MOST overrated publisher in the world. Shadow of the Beast, while
one of
> the most impressive games I ever saw, sucked. Some newer stuff has been
good,
> but give em a minute, and they'll turn out more trash. Something as
playable
> as Sonic by Psygnosis? I hardly think it possible.
S> Hmmm... Psygnosis = unplayable games? Well, what about Lemmings?
S> It's *very* playable. Although, I have to agree that all
S> Psygnosis's
S> games look very impressive, they lack playability (except for
S> lemmings)
Yeah, i agree; Psygnosis is VASTLY overrated. Unfortunately, their stuff is
quite symptomatic of the general state of video-games today - beautiful
graphics, superb music, and no gameplay at all. P has a very few products
that buck this trend and have a good game there beneath all the eye- and
ear-candy, such as Lemmings, but most of 'em are really boring and
unplayable, in PAL or NTSC. (Especially the ones by the team "Reflecions".
I think these goys had ONE real good game in them, Ballistix, and did it
right off; everything else they've done has been BORING.)
But like i said, it's not just Psygnosis.
Two days ago, I went down to the largest arcade in the city. There were a
total of 4-5 games at most there, out of around 40 or so, that actually
were interesting enough to play. Mostly i spent $2 finally getting to the
end of "Tumblepop" so i never have to play it again.
Tne next day, i went to a pizza place. Standing there in the corner was an
ancient "Vanguard" machine. On a whim, i dropped a quarter into it. And had
the most fun playing a game i'd had in a LONG time. Sure, the graphics were
crudely drawn, with the usual 8 garish colors, sure, the music and sound
effects were cheesy blippity blop audio, but the GAME was fun.
In fact all the eye and ear candy can HURT a game. Find an old Defender
machine. Typical mid 80's hardware. Killer game design. Then find the game
"Strikeforce". Typical ealy 90's hardware. Same basic game as Defender.
Totally unplayable due to the needless addition of power-ups (the BANE of
good games, in my opinion) and too much in the way of beautifully-done
graphics.
SHUK C YIP
>
> Hmmm... Psygnosis = unplayable games? Well, what about Lemmings?
> games look very impressive, they lack playability (except for lemmings)
>
How about Leander, this is the best platform game I've never seen
before. (very good playability) Someone said GODS is the best, however,
when the Atari version is exactly same as Amiga version, I don't think
so.
cons...@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu
>In article <1992May7...@camins.camosun.bc.ca>, compte...@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
>* Perhaps, but Sonic on the Amiga would only use 32 colours on screen at once.
>* There is no Amiga game in existence that uses 4096 colours on screen at once!
an arcade game) :)
>* Certainly not an arcade style game anyway.
>* Oh yeah, and how many frames of full screen animation in 4096 colours do you
>* think you could get into an Amiga's memory?
>
>* Anyway, the bottom line is...
>* Sonic on the Amiga would be really SAD. So there!!!
>
>* From Bobby Maturity, England.
I think sonic could be done VERY well if it fell into the right coding teams
hands.
Jim Martin
cons...@134.29.33.14
Zombie Priest
>I think sonic could be done VERY well if it fell into the right coding teams
>hands.
What I say is, keep churning out original games. If you want to play
Sonic the Hedgehog, then buy a Sega Genesis. You'll be glad you did
because then you can go out and buy all the old Amiga games that were
around for years and now sold as "new Sega Genesis" products.
A sample list of old Amiga games sold as "new, exciting" for Segas:
Technocop
The Immortal
Shadow of the Beast
Shadow of the Beast 2
Altered Beast (admittedly, the Sega version is 100x better)
Populous
Power Monger
Sim City
etc..
If I were a game manufacturer I'd cash in on the thousands of older
Amiga games that still impress people with their animation and superb
graphics & sound.
Kris Rehberg
Glenn Doiron
>In article <uce14...@network.ucsd.edu> si...@ivem.uucp (Simon Lee) writes:
>>In article <rauser.7...@sfu.ca> rau...@fraser.sfu.ca (Richard John Rauser) writes:
>>>compte...@camins.camosun.bc.ca writes:
>>> Sonic on an Amiga? Yuck...I hope not. That game is way too good and fast for
>>>a computer. Computer gamers, please stick to RPGs and simulations...
> They obviously don't have AMIGA's there ! After 3, everybody laugh,
> 1 ................ 2 ................ 3 HA HA ha ha ......... !
>>Obviously, you've never played a game on an Amiga, or at least a good one.
>>It's got just as much horsepower as a Genesis, if not more. Another thing,
>>an Amiga is more than just a "computer". It's a "game machine" :)
>>
>>-Simon
>Yo Simon, what a dude ! Sock it to 'em man !!!!!
Followups directed to comp.sys.amiga.advocacy, where this belongs.
Both machines have their strengths; both have their weaknesses. Let's
just say that the Genesis loses in the audio/memory department and the
Amiga loses in the sprite department.
JP...@psuvm.psu.edu
ba0...@bingsuns.cc.binghamton.edu (Zombie Priest) says:
>
>A sample list of old Amiga games sold as "new, exciting" for Segas:
>
Is this being converted to Genesis? By whom? Where did you see
this informtion? Does anyone know anything about this port?
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Emmer "...reason has no dictatorial authority; its verdict
Philosophy, Penn State is always simply the agreement of free citizens..."
JP...@psuvm.psu.edu - Immanuel Kant, CPR, A738/B765
Now playing: Amiga: Black Crypt Genesis: Kid Chameleon SNES: Contra III
cons...@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu
> <1992May7...@camins.camosun.bc.ca>,<1992May11....@and.csc.liv.ac.uk>
> <1992May16....@msus1.msus.edu>
>Date: Sun, 17 May 1992 05:53:56 GMT
heh, already got the mentioned console + my amiga...I just don't get the games
that are available for my amiga. I would just like to see if they could do
a good job w/ Sonic. Some good games for the Genesis from the Amiga would be:
Gods
SpeedBall II
The Ultima Games
EOB I & II
any of the SSI DnD Games
and quite a few others..
Jim Martin
cons...@134.29.33.14
Nathan W. Stehle
>
> Technocop
> The Immortal
(An excellent game)
> Shadow of the Beast
(Awful as well)
> Shadow of the Beast 2
> Altered Beast (admittedly, the Sega version is 100x better)
> Populous
(Another game that shows you don't need flashy graphics to be fun)
> Power Monger
> Sim City
Are these two even out for the Genesis? I know Sim City isn't, and I don't
think Power Monger is either. I think that Power Monger has potential for
the Genesis if the right company/house does it.
>If I were a game manufacturer I'd cash in on the thousands of older
>Amiga games that still impress people with their animation and superb
>graphics & sound.
So would I.
>Kris Rehberg
Nathan
nst...@acc.stolaf.edu
TOny M
Ah! so that's why the 'sprites' move in 8-pixel jumps!!!!
2frv...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
<Amiga titles converted to Sega deleted>
>>If I were a game manufacturer I'd cash in on the thousands of older
>>Amiga games that still impress people with their animation and superb
>>graphics & sound.
>
That way, you can sell the same old game to a new crowd for 50 bucks or
more instead of buying it for 4.99 in the bargain rack for the Amiga.
compte...@camins.camosun.bc.ca
> the MOST overrated publisher in the world. Shadow of the Beast, while one of
> the most impressive games I ever saw, sucked. Some newer stuff has been good,
> but give em a minute, and they'll turn out more trash. Something as playable
> as Sonic by Psygnosis? I hardly think it possible.
Well, for the most part, I'd have to agree with that, but even Psygnosis has
some playable games (eg. the Lemmings series). Matta ne.
-=]> Max <[=-
+----------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| Han - Listen! We don't have time to | "Riryoku no aran koto wo." |
| discuss this IN COMMITTEE! | comptec89007@ |
| Leia - I am NOT A COMMITTEE! | camins.camosun.bc.ca |
+----------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
Daniel Drumm
I just got Obitus from Psygnosis and it is an impressive package. When all
you see is the stale first-person dungeon engines like Black Crypt based on the
old DM, something like Obitus really wakes you up. It's not Ultima 6, but then
again, the graphics are smooth and quick. I think it's a fine effort.
Daniel Drumm
Have you seen the previews for Psygnosis' AIR SUPPORT. Wire frame
graphics for speed, several different planes, hovercrafts. Looks like
ArmourGeddon with a purpose. Bashing Psygnosis is stupid, I don't know who that
guy thinks is overrating the games, anyhow. Most things I read, Psygnosis gets
fair (if a little negative, IMO) reviews.
Sierra gets my vote for most overrated company.