Best programmer of this newsgroup?
Aristotelis
If I had to vote for the best programmer that visits this group (since I cannot know
all of the world's programmers) I would vote Fabio Bizetti.
He might be a good friend of mine but tis not a reason at all.
Virtual Karting was just a programming test for him.
He has told me about some really scary stuff for Virtual Rally and Starfighter.
And not only Amiga firsts...
He knows his hardware and his audience.
He came up with the AGA Extender.
And whatever happens to the Amiga he is dermined to keep supporting it.
And his an ok guy. ;-)
Keep up the good work Fabio!
And don't let the millitaristic imperliasts get you down! :-)
Tsiou!
Aristotelis
--
Love, Peace, Unity and Power to the People!
ar...@lm.com
TSIOU!
Angus Manwaring
: Hello friends.
: If I had to vote for the best programmer that visits this group (since I cannot know
: all of the world's programmers) I would vote Fabio Bizetti.
He certainly gets my vote for longest and most irritating sig. Nothing
personal Fabio, but I think we've got the message.
--
Regards,
Angus.
Saddened by computer "progress".................Gladdened by my Amiga
an...@angusm.demon.co.uk
Dave Gentry
>I would vote Fabio Bizetti.
>He has told me about some really scary stuff for Virtual Rally and Starfighter.
>And not only Amiga firsts...
>He knows his hardware and his audience.
>He came up with the AGA Extender.
>And whatever happens to the Amiga he is dermined to keep supporting it.
So any release dates for Starfighter? And is the AGAExtender just an
idea or a work in progress? Any hardware manufacturers looking
into/implementing it?
D. G.
Fabio Bizzetti
>Hello friends.
>If I had to vote for the best programmer that visits this group (since I
>cannot know all of the world's programmers) I would vote Fabio Bizetti.
>He might be a good friend of mine but tis not a reason at all.
>Virtual Karting was just a programming test for him.
>He has told me about some really scary stuff for Virtual Rally and
>Starfighter. And not only Amiga firsts... He knows his hardware and his
>audience. He came up with the AGA Extender. And whatever happens to the Amiga
>he is dermined to keep supporting it.
>And his an ok guy. ;-)
>Keep up the good work Fabio!
>And don't let the millitaristic imperliasts get you down! :-)
>Tsiou!
>Aristotelis
>--
> Love, Peace, Unity and Power to the People!
> ar...@lm.com
> TSIOU!
8-)))
Thanks Mate++ ;)
Anyway, I should learn to shut up about the topic "fantasies of API/OS" vs
"reality of things" definitively.
If some people, not knowing anything about games programming, are certain that
the API and a C++ written OS is the only way to go, then good luck.
They have no experience, they often aren't neither assembly programmers,
(not talking about skilled ones) they only play with Workbench windows, but
they talk as if they had the wide experience that is needed to talk about it.
I would hit the head into a wall any times only for friends and for who wanna
listen to get the best solution, not for who has a static mind, fixed in
thoughts that are neither of him (read: ignorance+presumption about coding).
:[
Long live the *real* Amiga.
Fuck all the PC sad clones off.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| |
| Stop that fucking imperialist embargo against Cuba. |
| Hasta Siempre Comandante Che Guevara. |
| |
| |
| Fabio "Maverick" Bizzetti - bizz...@mbox.vol.it - Maverick* at IRC |
| The maker of "CyberMan" and "Virtual Karting" |
| working on "Virtual Rally" and "StarFighter", the 3D game that will |
| bring the Amiga to the top |
| |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fabio Bizzetti
>He certainly gets my vote for longest and most irritating sig. Nothing
>personal Fabio, but I think we've got the message.
Sorry Pal, it was not meant as a message for c.s.a.g.
I am not only a programmer, and I dont post only in computer newsgroups.
If it's a problem of bandwidth, then it's ridicolous: it's not much bigger
than yours, and is much smaller than any message or header.
If you dont like my sig, you can avoid to read it.
Anyway, if many mates (not pigs) agree with you, I can cut it manually every
time when posting on c.s.a.x...
I dont wanna be shitty with the people I like/esteem, but I dont care anything
about who IMHO and personal opinion doesn't deserve.
>--
> Regards,
> Angus.
>Saddened by computer "progress".................Gladdened by my Amiga
> an...@angusm.demon.co.uk
Regards.
Read below ;D
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| |
| Stop that fucking imperialist embargo against Cuba. |
| Hasta Siempre Comandante Che Guevara. |
| |
| |
| Fabio "Maverick" Bizzetti - bizz...@mbox.vol.it - Maverick* at IRC |
| The maker of "CyberMan" and "Virtual Karting" |
| working on "Virtual Rally" and "StarFighter", the 3D game that will |
| bring the Amiga to the top |
| |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe the problem is "the 3D game that will bring the Amiga to the top" ?
OK.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| |
| Stop that fucking imperialist embargo against Cuba. |
| Hasta Siempre Comandante Che Guevara. |
| |
| |
| Fabio "Maverick" Bizzetti - bizz...@mbox.vol.it - Maverick* at IRC |
| The maker of "CyberMan" and "Virtual Karting" |
| working on "VirtualRally" & "StarFighter" |
| |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Or perhaps the problem is that I support the Amiga so much?
Or perhaps the thing about Cuba? I will not change it in
<< USA: put you shitty hands on Cuba again >>.
Whatever it is, dont read it anymore if you get problems doing so.
More respectful than asking others' to change their things.
Steffen Haeuser
bizzetti%mbox.vol.it@INTERNET wrote :
> Anyway, I should learn to shut up about the topic "fantasies of API/OS" vs
> "reality of things" definitively.
> If some people, not knowing anything about games programming, are certain that
> the API and a C++ written OS is the only way to go, then good luck.
Well, maybe at LEAST you should stop call people who would like a game API in
the OS (like a lot of OSses nowerdays have...) CALL C++ PROGRAMMERS THAT DO
NOT KNOW ASSEMBLY... that is insulting... i personally think C++ is CRAP...
(at least for all other stuff than "playing around with nice concept to do a
very strange looking Hello-World-program"). I personally code in C, with all
speed relevant stuff done in Assembly (and if it is needed, the whole thing in
Assembly), but i still think that a game API would be nice... of course no
WritePixel stuff... but something like
OpenDisplay
GetDispBufAdr
CloseDisplay
DBuffering
ScrollDispBuffer
LoadRGBTable
LockDisplay
UnlockDisplay
PlayDispMPEG
PlayDispIFFANIM
LoadDispIFF
LoadDispGIF
LoadDispJPEG
LoadMod
PlayMod
StopMod
CallC2P
CallP2C
ScreenModeRequester
FreeScreenModeReq
BlitIt
Some Linedrawing, Memory deleting, Rectangle Filling functions that use
Blitters as far as they are available
Well... and something like that with ASM and C includes... for all available
GFX Hardware... the actual rendering could be handled by every programmer
himself (maybe we could add an optional CopyPixels that does
1) CallC2P for ECS/AGA
2) Copy from Fastram Buffer for GFX Boards
to make stuff easier... of course that thing had to be highly optimized,
without clipping or any other checks...
That would be useful (okay, maybe the list is not complete, but most of the
things should be there... Input can be handled with ... an InputHandler of
course... or direct HW... just like one wants...
Steffen Haeuser
Steffen Haeuser
bizzetti%mbox.vol.it@INTERNET wrote :
>
>
>>He certainly gets my vote for longest and most irritating sig. Nothing
>>personal Fabio, but I think we've got the message.
>
> Sorry Pal, it was not meant as a message for c.s.a.g.
> I am not only a programmer, and I dont post only in computer newsgroups.
>
> If it's a problem of bandwidth, then it's ridicolous: it's not much bigger
> than yours, and is much smaller than any message or header.
>
> If you dont like my sig, you can avoid to read it.
Well, i don't know why those guys bother so much if a sig looks like yours ...
or like mine :)))))))
And here's mine (lazy) sig :
Steffen Haeuser (grin....)
(Yes, i do not use a Point prograt at the moment!!!)
Angus Manwaring
: Whatever it is, dont read it anymore if you get problems doing so.
: More respectful than asking others' to change their things.
What are you talking about, Fabio? You put abusive language and politics
into a signature the size of an entire screen. And you post rather a
lot, so the sig has lost some of its novelty now. This is not a big
deal, but I find it rather tedious. If you want to bring respect into
it, why not respect standard usenet etiquette.
--
Regards,
Angus.
You don't play a million notes, but hopefully you play a few goodies.
an...@angusm.demon.co.uk
Brian Skreeg
: Aristotelis (ar...@telerama.lm.com) wrote:
: : Hello friends.
: : If I had to vote for the best programmer that visits this group (since I cannot know
: : all of the world's programmers) I would vote Fabio Bizetti.
: He certainly gets my vote for longest and most irritating sig. Nothing
: personal Fabio, but I think we've got the message.
And he gets my vote for largest ego as well.
Ozzy,
__ _ _
/ \ \ \
/ / / / / |-Brian Skreeg--------IRC:_Ozzy-|
\__/ \ \ |-Fish Technologies Ltd---------|
\__/_/ |-Evolving software specialists-|
Stefan Boberg
>i personally think C++ is CRAP...
>(at least for all other stuff than "playing around with nice concept to do a
>very strange looking Hello-World-program").
You know, I used to think this too. I have changed my mind however.
Unless you start using multiple inheritance, operator overloading or
templates, you don't really get any performance hit at all going from
C to C++ (or indeed, from ASM). If anything, your code is likely to
get smaller and more readable (standard disclaimers apply of course;
some programmers will write crap code regardless of language or
programming environment, just as some programmers can write gorgeous
code in ASM (even though they no doubt would be more productive if
they were working in a higher-level language)).
Operator overloading, templates and possibly multiple inheritance (I
still haven't found any good use for it, though) are just fine for
implementing tools or performance insensitive code.
>Steffen Haeuser
===============================================================
Stefan Boberg bob...@team17.com
"This, like, sucks in ways that we've never seen stuff suck
before, so it's kinda cool!" - B&B
Mike
Hi, Aristotelis , on 25-Mar-96 16:38:36 you scribbled....
>Hello friends.
>If I had to vote for the best programmer that visits this group (since I
>cannot know all of the world's programmers) I would vote Fabio Bizetti.
I'll only vote on things I've seen, not just "heard" about....
>He might be a good friend of mine but tis not a reason at all.
>Virtual Karting was just a programming test for him.
...and not THAT good ,no offence, but it wasn't
>He has told me about some really scary stuff for Virtual Rally and
>Starfighter.
Telling is one thing, showing a demo might convince someone.
> And not only Amiga firsts... He knows his hardware and his
>audience. He came up with the AGA Extender. And whatever happens to the Amiga
>he is dermined to keep supporting it.
An idea with specs....
>And his an ok guy. ;-)
Mike
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mike Redrobe - Mi...@Redrobe.demon.co.uk MikeRR on #Amiga
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Casper
: Anyway, if many mates (not pigs) agree with you, I can cut it manually every
: time when posting on c.s.a.x...
: I dont wanna be shitty with the people I like/esteem, but I dont care anything
: about who IMHO and personal opinion doesn't deserve.
It is bandwidth and an annoyance, but you don't have to go that far. How about...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stop that fucking imperialist embargo against Cuba.
Hasta Siempre Comandante Che Guevara.
Fabio "Maverick" Bizzetti - bizz...@mbox.vol.it - Maverick* at IRC
Coder of "CyberMan" and "Virtual Karting", working on "Virtual Rally" and
"StarFighter", the 3D game that willbring the Amiga to the top.
Neat and not THAT many lines.
: Or perhaps the problem is that I support the Amiga so much?
That is never a problem. :)
Stu. :)
--
Stuart Tomlinson cas...@tomonet.demon.co.uk
Stu is who I am, Casper is what I stand for.
'Say cheese!'
Alex Amsel
> Operator overloading, templates and possibly multiple inheritance (I
> still haven't found any good use for it, though) are just fine for
> implementing tools or performance insensitive code.
Computer science lecturers love multiple inheritance!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
| Alex Amsel : Silltunna Software Lead Programmer : Black Magic |
| XTremeRacing 1x1 TMapping and Stunning Gameplay on AGA Amigas |
| Al...@teeth.demon.co.uk | Steve Bull is Back | *PWEIPWEIPWEI* |
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Stefan Boberg
>In article: <4jhejo$2...@hell.team17.com> bob...@team17.com (Stefan
>Boberg) writes:
>> Operator overloading, templates and possibly multiple inheritance (I
>> still haven't found any good use for it, though) are just fine for
>> implementing tools or performance insensitive code.
>Computer science lecturers love multiple inheritance!
They really love LISP, too :-)
But if they would look at the code any C++ compiler generates for MI
objects, they probably wouldn't like it so much anymore... Overhead
city.
>| Alex Amsel : Silltunna Software Lead Programmer : Black Magic |
Fabio Bizzetti
> bizzetti%mbox.vol.it@INTERNET wrote :
>> Anyway, I should learn to shut up about the topic "fantasies of API/OS" vs
>> "reality of things" definitively.
>> If some people, not knowing anything about games programming, are certain
>> that the API and a C++ written OS is the only way to go, then good luck.
>Well, maybe at LEAST you should stop call people who would like a game API in
> the OS (like a lot of OSses nowerdays have...) CALL C++ PROGRAMMERS THAT DO
>NOT KNOW ASSEMBLY... that is insulting... i personally think C++ is CRAP...
>(at least for all other stuff than "playing around with nice concept to do a
>very strange looking Hello-World-program"). I personally code in C, with all
>speed relevant stuff done in Assembly (and if it is needed, the whole thing
>in Assembly), but i still think that a game API would be nice... of course
>no WritePixel stuff... but something like
Sorry if I've offended you, I appreciate your work on RTG.
The fact is that a game (other than Doom) is much more than any interface
could allow without needing to be rewritten and specifically optimized every
time: we're back into hardware direct programming.
You perhaps didn't notice that you started RTG with (at last in your
subcoscious) the idea of Doom and related new techniques. This is very good
for Doom/Descent & Co., that are already "SVGA" (read: simple) games, but
this have nothing to do with all the other games that aren't, more or less,
Doom clones.
Amiga's ProjectX-II conversion can *not* be made with a API, unless you write
and *optimize* ( that requires a specif hardware knowledge, so it's not
possible with "abstraction of hardware" theory ) this API, but as you see this
is a paradox that again brings you back into hardware direct and specific
programming.
>Well... and something like that with ASM and C includes... for all available
>GFX Hardware... the actual rendering could be handled by every programmer
>himself (maybe we could add an optional CopyPixels that does
>1) CallC2P for ECS/AGA
>2) Copy from Fastram Buffer for GFX Boards
>to make stuff easier... of course that thing had to be highly optimized,
>without clipping or any other checks...
As you see, linear chunky buffer (with no modulo) is perfect and specific
only for Doom & Co.
Making an API (or also only a more versatile RTG) for each game technique and
each hardware, again means direct hardware programming. It's a paradox.
>That would be useful (okay, maybe the list is not complete, but most of the
>things should be there... Input can be handled with ... an InputHandler of
>course... or direct HW... just like one wants...
I agree with many of your thoughts, and we could make an io.libray (damn, I go
and make it now, really :) ) for keyboard, mouse, joystick and related usage,
to preserve I/O compatibility, but "realtime" (or "fastest" if you prefer) and
API dont suit together at all, and RTG (a comprimize) simply covers more
cases than API can, but in a slower way than specific hardware programming
allows. As you see, it's a "comprimize", with its advantages and disadvantages.
"Games = Doom" is not true IMHO.
And in my case of 3D sprites, it can't be done with the RTG for a banal reason,
that is already sufficient, unless you wanna write (as I said) a new RTG and
new hardware drivers for each of these new RTG for every new and original game
technique that is created, and this is already common, is called "optimal
direct hardware programming and optimizations".
Doom damaged more the Amiga than you can imagine.
Anyway, I sincerely appreciate and esteem a lot your work on RTG, that is useful
in really many cases, featuring only the intelligent parts of a API and not the
most illusory ones.
Virtual Karting could be done with RTG, StarFighter cannot indeed. This is not
my fault, this is not your fault: the perfection doesn't exist, that's why
our mind is so flexible to create custom (specific) solutions to the problems
that require it. That's what separes us from machines' world.
>Steffen Haeuser
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Fabio "Maverick" Bizzetti - bizz...@mbox.vol.it - Maverick* at IRC |
| The maker of "CyberMan" and "Virtual Karting" |
| working on "VirtualRally" & "StarFighter" |
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------/
Fabio Bizzetti
>He certainly gets my vote for longest and most irritating sig. Nothing
>personal Fabio, but I think we've got the message.
And I am so much open-and-elastic-mind (instinctively), that I thought about
my enemy's ;) point of view, and changed the sig! :D
Fabio Bizzetti
>>If I had to vote for the best programmer that visits this group (since I
>>cannot know all of the world's programmers) I would vote Fabio Bizetti.
>I'll only vote on things I've seen, not just "heard" about....
You're right. Anyway, I see if a coder is a fake or not, also from the things
that he is able to say or demonstrate also only with words, if they're logical
and if I am good enough to understand that they work.
>>Virtual Karting was just a programming test for him.
>...and not THAT good ,no offence, but it wasn't
Talking about coding or gfx? Talking about unexpanded A1200 or "Wait For VBL"
expanded A1200?
>>He has told me about some really scary stuff for Virtual Rally and
>>Starfighter.
>Telling is one thing, showing a demo might convince someone.
You see.. that's why I didn't want to release VirtualRally infos, and still
dont want to release StarFighter's ones.
You're blaming me because I released informations as other people wished..
>> And not only Amiga firsts... He knows his hardware and his
>>audience. He came up with the AGA Extender. And whatever happens to the
>>Amiga he is dermined to keep supporting it.
>An idea with specs....
You're the big ignorant here, your words prove it.
Let's talk about you now?
>>And his an ok guy. ;-)
I'm not always ;-)
>Mike
>--
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Mike Redrobe - Mi...@Redrobe.demon.co.uk MikeRR on #Amiga
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fabio Bizzetti
>On 25 Mar 1996 23:57:16 GMT, Fabio Bizzetti (bizz...@mbox.vol.it) wrote:
>: Anyway, if many mates (not pigs) agree with you, I can cut it manually
>: every time when posting on c.s.a.x... I dont wanna be shitty with the
>: people I like/esteem, but I dont care anything about who IMHO and personal
>: opinion doesn't deserve.
>It is bandwidth and an annoyance, but you don't have to go that far. How
>about...
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-- Stop that fucking imperialist embargo against Cuba.
> Hasta Siempre Comandante Che
> Guevara.
> Fabio "Maverick" Bizzetti - bizz...@mbox.vol.it - Maverick* at IRC
>Coder of "CyberMan" and "Virtual Karting", working on "Virtual Rally" and
> "StarFighter", the 3D game that willbring the Amiga to the
> top.
>Neat and not THAT many lines.
>: Or perhaps the problem is that I support the Amiga so much?
>That is never a problem. :)
>Stu. :)
>--
> Stuart Tomlinson cas...@tomonet.demon.co.uk
> Stu is who I am, Casper is what I stand for.
> 'Say cheese!'
For you and people like you I would also cut completely the whole .sig ;)
Greets.
Fabio Bizzetti
>Fabio Bizzetti (bizz...@mbox.vol.it) wrote:
>: Whatever it is, dont read it anymore if you get problems doing so.
>: More respectful than asking others' to change their things.
>What are you talking about, Fabio? You put abusive language and politics
>into a signature the size of an entire screen. And you post rather a
>lot, so the sig has lost some of its novelty now. This is not a big
>deal, but I find it rather tedious. If you want to bring respect into
>it, why not respect standard usenet etiquette.
You're right, so I changed the sig.
>--
> Regards,
> Angus.
>You don't play a million notes, but hopefully you play a few goodies.
> an...@angusm.demon.co.uk
Regards.
Fabio Bizzetti
>While smelling of shit Brian Skreeg <o...@ozzy.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>While smelling of fish Angus Manwaring (an...@angusm.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>: Aristotelis (ar...@telerama.lm.com) wrote:
>: : Hello friends.
>: : If I had to vote for the best programmer that visits this group (since I
>: : cannot know all of the world's programmers) I would vote Fabio Bizetti.
>: He certainly gets my vote for longest and most irritating sig. Nothing
>: personal Fabio, but I think we've got the message.
>And he gets my vote for largest ego as well.
First of all, you're hugely wrong about my "ego".
Second, you're well known to be a pig.
We can gather some money so you can buy your dreamy PC and fuck off.
:D
>Ozzy,
> __ _ _
> / \ \ \
> / / / / / |-Brian Skreeg--------IRC:_Ozzy-|
> \__/ \ \ |-Fish Technologies Ltd---------|
> \__/_/ |-Evolving software specialists-|
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
Steffen Haeuser
boberg%team17.com@INTERNET wrote :
>
> mag...@birdland.es.bawue.de (Steffen Haeuser) wrote:
>
>>i personally think C++ is CRAP...
>>(at least for all other stuff than "playing around with nice concept to do a
>>very strange looking Hello-World-program").
>
> You know, I used to think this too. I have changed my mind however.
> Unless you start using multiple inheritance, operator overloading or
> templates, you don't really get any performance hit at all going from
> C to C++ (or indeed, from ASM). If anything, your code is likely to
> get smaller and more readable (standard disclaimers apply of course;
> some programmers will write crap code regardless of language or
> programming environment, just as some programmers can write gorgeous
> code in ASM (even though they no doubt would be more productive if
> they were working in a higher-level language)).
Well... smaller... at least NOT with SAS/C... there it was MUCH bigger...
maybe with GNU and Maxon (for Maxon i know for sure... but on the other hand
Maxon is too buggy to work with it...). And it seemed to me (yes, i in fact
tried it out) that you will go there :
i) Get slower code
OR
ii) using a C++ compiler, but IN FACT coding C...
>
> Operator overloading, templates and possibly multiple inheritance (I
> still haven't found any good use for it, though) are just fine for
> implementing tools or performance insensitive code.
Well, of course, i have to admit, i havn't done MUCH C++
Steffen Haeuser
Steffen Haeuser
Alex%teeth.demon.co.uk@INTERNET wrote :
>
> In article: <4jhejo$2...@hell.team17.com> bob...@team17.com (Stefan
> Boberg) writes:
>> Operator overloading, templates and possibly multiple inheritance (I
>> still haven't found any good use for it, though) are just fine for
>> implementing tools or performance insensitive code.
>
> Computer science lecturers love multiple inheritance!
Yeah, because :
i) It is useless (usually)
ii) it is universal
iii) it is object oriented concepts thought to the real end
iv) it probably won't be used practically by programmers
=> so it is just PERFECT for computer science lecturers... :)
Steffen Haeuser
Steffen Haeuser
boberg%team17.com@INTERNET wrote :
>>Computer science lecturers love multiple inheritance!
>
> They really love LISP, too :-)
ROTFLBIC ! And Lisp is not the worst... there are some who love a thing that
is some sort of Lisp dialect... and even WORSE :))) (Forgot the name of the
thing... at a time they gave it at University of Stuttgart to first-term
students :) Now they are again back to Modula II... what of course is not
MUCH more use in...)
>
> But if they would look at the code any C++ compiler generates for MI
> objects, they probably wouldn't like it so much anymore... Overhead
> city.
grin... yeah... well, they would not LOOK at it... what a compiler generates
is ASSEMBLY... and assembly does not bother them... real computers work in
high languages, grin ... they have multiple inherited classes and
turing-machines inside the CPU... and of course they can do non-deterministic
algorithms in sublinear time :)))
Steffen Haeuser
Casper
: For you and people like you I would also cut completely the whole .sig ;)
Don't worry about it, I'm only bothered about sigs that get into
double figures. :)
Brian Skreeg
: >And he gets my vote for largest ego as well.
: First of all, you're hugely wrong about my "ego".
How do we know?
: Second, you're well known to be a pig.
Just because I disagree with OTM's marketing techniques doesn't mean that
everyone hates me. Does it? <boohoo.
: We can gather some money so you can buy your dreamy PC and fuck off.
Can someone please hold FB's head while I get this hook out of his mouth.
He's going to hurt himself with all that teethgnashing.
: :D
^^
/
Look Fab, I smiley. Know what these are for?
Oz,
__ _ _
/ \ \ \
/ / / / / |-Brian Skreeg--------------IRC:_Ozzy-|
\__/ \ \ |-Lead guitarist---Widdles on request-|
\__/_/ |-A fish or two is with no compromise-|
Nameless
>Boberg) writes:
>> Operator overloading, templates and possibly multiple inheritance (I
>> still haven't found any good use for it, though) are just fine for
>> implementing tools or performance insensitive code.
>Computer science lecturers love multiple inheritance!
That is probably why they work as teachers and not better paid (to some extent,
depending on machine) programmers :-)
--
This excellent message was brought to you at 02-Apr-96 00:19:35 by
Name...@ask.himolde.no <> Nameless @ IRC <> http://www.himolde.no/~espen
=============================================================================
The thoughtless are rarely wordless.
Steffen Haeuser
bizzetti%mbox.vol.it@INTERNET wrote :
>>Well, maybe at LEAST you should stop call people who would like a game API in
>> the OS (like a lot of OSses nowerdays have...) CALL C++ PROGRAMMERS THAT DO
>>NOT KNOW ASSEMBLY... that is insulting... i personally think C++ is CRAP...
>>(at least for all other stuff than "playing around with nice concept to do a
>>very strange looking Hello-World-program"). I personally code in C, with all
>>speed relevant stuff done in Assembly (and if it is needed, the whole thing
>>in Assembly), but i still think that a game API would be nice... of course
>>no WritePixel stuff... but something like
>
> Sorry if I've offended you, I appreciate your work on RTG.
No offence :) Really... but i HAD to say something on that remark from you :)
But well... you probably would have written someone too, if someone would have
said the other way round (maybe "All hardware bangers do not know how to code"
or a similar sentence without real evidence... and to be real, it was a bit a
"prejudice"-sentence, what you stated... but never mind :))
> You perhaps didn't notice that you started RTG with (at last in your
> subcoscious) the idea of Doom and related new techniques. This is very good
> for Doom/Descent & Co., that are already "SVGA" (read: simple) games, but
> this have nothing to do with all the other games that aren't, more or less,
> Doom clones.
Well, i know, and i remarked this in newsposts, that there are some things,
where it is difficult... on the other thing, for a LOT of stuff it is very
helpfull (DOOM&Co.,Role Playing Games, Flight simulators, Strategy Games at
least)
>
> Amiga's ProjectX-II conversion can *not* be made with a API, unless you write
> and *optimize* ( that requires a specif hardware knowledge, so it's not
> possible with "abstraction of hardware" theory ) this API, but as you see this
> is a paradox that again brings you back into hardware direct and specific
> programming.
Well, such stuff WOULD be possible with a API that supports functions that
provide a lot of possibilites that are normally done by direct hardware, and
provide for each hardware a function call that is specially optimized for this
hardware... but generally, you are right up to some point, of course...
But, hmm, we have to catch up with Amiga, so anything enhancing the current
things is good, probably...
> As you see, linear chunky buffer (with no modulo) is perfect and specific
> only for Doom & Co.
Not only, there are some more games for that it is usable... okay, not for
all...
> I agree with many of your thoughts, and we could make an io.libray (damn, I go
> and make it now, really :) ) for keyboard, mouse, joystick and related usage,
> to preserve I/O compatibility, but "realtime" (or "fastest" if you prefer) and
> API dont suit together at all, and RTG (a comprimize) simply covers more
> cases than API can, but in a slower way than specific hardware programming
> allows. As you see, it's a "comprimize", with its advantages and disadvantages.
Well, if you, for example, use an Input Handler, that should not be remarkable
slower than direct programming in case of io...
> "Games = Doom" is not true IMHO.
In mine too... i would LOVE a good (non-DOOM-Style) RPG again on Amiga, for
example :)
> Doom damaged more the Amiga than you can imagine.
I know. Without it, we would have the games, so they have them :(
>
> Anyway, I sincerely appreciate and esteem a lot your work on RTG, that is useful
> in really many cases, featuring only the intelligent parts of a API and not the
> most illusory ones.
>
> Virtual Karting could be done with RTG, StarFighter cannot indeed. This is not
> my fault, this is not your fault: the perfection doesn't exist, that's why
> our mind is so flexible to create custom (specific) solutions to the problems
> that require it. That's what separes us from machines' world.
Well, yeah, but if some games can be done with it, that's a win, isn't it ? :)
Steffen Haeuser
Nameless
>could allow without needing to be rewritten and specifically optimized every
>time: we're back into hardware direct programming.
Which we should try to avoid IMHO. That is what we have shared libraries for.
That way the games/utils will work on various setups. If it gets too slow,
just add some to the processor demands. That is the only way to get people to
upgrade.
>You perhaps didn't notice that you started RTG with (at last in your
>subcoscious) the idea of Doom and related new techniques. This is very good
>for Doom/Descent & Co., that are already "SVGA" (read: simple) games, but
>this have nothing to do with all the other games that aren't, more or less,
>Doom clones.
I am programming a game that is not 3D (imagine that) and I am waiting for
rtgmaster.library to arrive :-)
--
This excellent message was brought to you at 03-Apr-96 22:10:45 by
Name...@ask.himolde.no <> Nameless @ IRC <> http://www.himolde.no/~espen
=============================================================================
If at first you don't succeed, Call it Windows.
Mike Redrobe
Hi, Fabio Bizzetti , on 31-Mar-96 17:17:24 you scribbled....
>>>If I had to vote for the best programmer that visits this group (since I
>>>cannot know all of the world's programmers) I would vote Fabio Bizetti.
>>I'll only vote on things I've seen, not just "heard" about....
>You're right. Anyway, I see if a coder is a fake or not, also from the things
>that he is able to say or demonstrate also only with words, if they're
>logical and if I am good enough to understand that they work.
>>>Virtual Karting was just a programming test for him.
>>...and not THAT good ,no offence, but it wasn't
>Talking about coding or gfx? Talking about unexpanded A1200 or "Wait For VBL"
>expanded A1200?
gfx and playability....it wasn't there for me in VK....
>>>He has told me about some really scary stuff for Virtual Rally and
>>>Starfighter.
>>Telling is one thing, showing a demo might convince someone.
>You see.. that's why I didn't want to release VirtualRally infos, and still
>dont want to release StarFighter's ones.
>You're blaming me because I released informations as other people wished..
I'm not blaming you at all. In fact I'd love to see a demo of VirtualRally ;)
I objected to others claiming you're the no.1 amiga coder on the strength of
some text...I'm prepared to be converted by a demo of VirtualRally though
(when its ready) ;)
>>> And not only Amiga firsts... He knows his hardware and his
>>>audience. He came up with the AGA Extender. And whatever happens to the
>>>Amiga he is dermined to keep supporting it.
>>An idea with specs....
>You're the big ignorant here, your words prove it.
meaning what?
because I'm not taken in by words? I thought that why I use an Amiga instaed
of a PC (I have both).
>Let's talk about you now?
me (blushes) , I'm not an Amiga coder, but have a background in electronics,
and am a programmer by trade....
Fabio Bizzetti
:)
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
Mark van der Molen
>While smelling of fish Angus Manwaring (an...@angusm.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>: Aristotelis (ar...@telerama.lm.com) wrote:
>: : Hello friends.
>: : If I had to vote for the best programmer that visits this group (since I
>: : cannot know all of the world's programmers) I would vote Fabio Bizetti.
>: He certainly gets my vote for longest and most irritating sig. Nothing
>: personal Fabio, but I think we've got the message.
>And he gets my vote for largest ego as well.
>Ozzy,
> __ _ _
> / \ \ \
> / / / / / |-Brian Skreeg--------IRC:_Ozzy-|
> \__/ \ \ |-Fish Technologies Ltd---------|
> \__/_/ |-Evolving software specialists-|
And you get my vote vote for most annoying poster on this newsgroup.
Mark
<tsb>Brought to you by El...@stack.urc.tue.nl....Amiga 1200/020 28 mhz, 4 meg
<sb> fast, 2 meg chip memory,two 250 meg harddrives, Epson stylus printer,
<sb> 2x Cdrom drive, 1942 monitor, dynalink modem ElvisP on #amiga, THOR 2.22
<tsb>Random tag line coming up...
EPROM: Acronym for "Exit Program, Read Owners manual".
Andrew Shuttlewood
>>He certainly gets my vote for longest and most irritating sig. Nothing
>>personal Fabio, but I think we've got the message.
>Sorry Pal, it was not meant as a message for c.s.a.g.
>I am not only a programmer, and I dont post only in computer newsgroups.
>If it's a problem of bandwidth, then it's ridicolous: it's not much bigger
>than yours, and is much smaller than any message or header.
>If you dont like my sig, you can avoid to read it.
>Anyway, if many mates (not pigs) agree with you, I can cut it manually every
>time when posting on c.s.a.x...
Fabio: I notice that you're using THOR....
Ya don't need to cut it manually, just do a little bit more config
Check out Configuration menu, conf config, and it allows you to
specify your sig for each conf.
Brian Skreeg
: >Ozzy,
: > __ _ _
: > / \ \ \
: > / / / / / |-Brian Skreeg--------IRC:_Ozzy-|
: > \__/ \ \ |-Fish Technologies Ltd---------|
: > \__/_/ |-Evolving software specialists-|
: And you get my vote vote for most annoying poster on this newsgroup.
: Mark
Yeah? Gosh, thanks thanks. I'm dead chuffed for that. ;)
Ozzy,
__ _ _
/ \ \ \ Out we come, bloody and squawling,
/ / / / / and for all the points of the compass,
\__/ \ \ we know there's anly one direction,
\__/_/ and time, is it's only measure,
Guildernstern or Rosencrantz.
HAAVARD JAKOBSEN
>
> Hi, Fabio Bizzetti , on 31-Mar-96 17:17:24 you scribbled....
> >>>cannot know all of the world's programmers) I would vote Fabio Bizetti.
>
>
> >You're right. Anyway, I see if a coder is a fake or not, also from the things
> >that he is able to say or demonstrate also only with words, if they're
> >logical and if I am good enough to understand that they work.
>
> >>>Virtual Karting was just a programming test for him.
> >>...and not THAT good ,no offence, but it wasn't
> >Talking about coding or gfx? Talking about unexpanded A1200 or "Wait For VBL"
> >expanded A1200?
>
> gfx and playability....it wasn't there for me in VK....
I actually liked the demo of VK, even with the shitty 'ghost' C2P
its had.... Thought it played well.... What do you guy's expect from
a go-kart game??
Mike Redrobe
Hi, HAAVARD JAKOBSEN , on 10-Apr-96 18:58:13 you scribbled....
did you use a TV or monitor?
from what others have said, its much more playable on a TV (pixels merge)
Alan L.M. Buxey
: > >>>cannot know all of the world's programmers) I would vote Fabio Bizetti.
main(){
int i;
for(i=0;i<100;i++)
fprintf(stdout,"%d\n", i);
}
do i win??? ;-)
--
- (c) Alan Postings Ltd - A division of Alans(tm) Corporate body(tm) :-)
Date: Wed Apr 17 13:04:52 BST 1996 Issue:01/00/00 NOT to be carried on M.S.N.!
- HEALTH WARNING: The InterNet can be addictive and cause a lack of real -
- social life. Use with care. Not to be taken more than four times daily. -
victor brueggemann
Alan L.M. Buxey <kc...@central.susx.ac.uk> wrote:
>: > >>>If I had to vote for the best programmer that visits this group (since I
>: > >>>cannot know all of the world's programmers) I would vote Fabio Bizetti.
>
>main(){
>int i;
>for(i=0;i<100;i++)
> fprintf(stdout,"%d\n", i);
>}
>
>do i win??? ;-)
Nope, sorry. You used the Wrong(tm) form of Indentation. :)
Feel free to enter as many times as you like, but each entry after the
first must be on a separate floppy (or post card if it will fit), and
addressed to:
Director of Information Super-Highway Development
1400 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington D.C.
USA
Overseas contestants may be able to register their entries locally, the
addresses can be found elsewhere on the internet.
Fabio Bizzetti
>: > >>>If I had to vote for the best programmer that visits this group (since
>: > >>>I cannot know all of the world's programmers) I would vote Fabio
>: > >>>Bizetti.
>main(){
>int i;
>for(i=0;i<100;i++)
> fprintf(stdout,"%d\n", i);
>}
>do i win??? ;-)
cool, "on the fly". My turn now: try this trick to enhance your monitor:
likeit: LEA $DFF000,A0
MOVE.W #$7FFF,$9A(A0)
.l0 CMP.B #1,6(A0)
BNE.B .l0
.l1 CMP.B #2,6(A0)
BNE.B .l1
MOVE.W #$0000,$2C(A0)
BRA.B .l0 ;no need to exit, you'll reset
I am not responsible in any way for it though, use it at your own risk.. ah,
remember to save your RAM contents to disk, since the computer gets frozen. O:)
then do me a report.
>--
>- (c) Alan Postings Ltd - A division of Alans(tm) Corporate body(tm) :-)
>Date: Wed Apr 17 13:04:52 BST 1996 Issue:01/00/00 NOT to be carried on
>M.S.N.!
> - HEALTH WARNING: The InterNet can be addictive and cause a lack of real -
> - social life. Use with care. Not to be taken more than four times daily. -
/-----------------------------------------------------------------------\
Juergen Rally Fischer
: >> >>>Virtual Karting was just a programming test for him.
: >> >Talking about coding or gfx? Talking about unexpanded A1200 or "Wait For
: >> >VBL" expanded A1200?
wait for vbl can't be considered good coding today.
: > I actually liked the demo of VK, even with the shitty 'ghost' C2P
actually ghost mode is most tricky coding =;)
for a doom game ghost mode is not faster, but for a karting
game it gives speedup.
: >its had.... Thought it played well.... What do you guy's expect from
: >a go-kart game??
: did you use a TV or monitor?
: from what others have said, its much more playable on a TV (pixels merge)
I have changed ghost-mode to laced-ghost-mode, so pixel merge
also on monitor.
Is this enough to win 1st price here ? ;)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
fisc...@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Juergen "Rally" Fischer) =:)
Marc Forrester
fisc...@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Juergen "Rally" Fischer) wrote:
>wait for vbl can't be considered good coding today.
It's not bad coding, surely? How do you keep things synched with
the display on overpowered machines, then?
>I have changed ghost-mode to laced-ghost-mode, so pixel merge
>also on monitor.
>Is this enough to win 1st price here ? ;)
I'm not convinced this is the right time to ask who's the best coder
here, right when we're waiting for VKII, the XTR improvement,
AB3DII, StarFighter, Rally, that horizontal shoot em up thing,
and all manner of real soon now promises to appear.
Okay, there's never an -ideal- time, but if we choose this second,
we'll probably have seriously changed our minds three months on..
BTW.. Does best programmer mean fastest, most impressive 3D engine,
or does it mean best -game- programmer? Major difference.
William Howald
On 1 May 1996, Marc Forrester wrote:
> fisc...@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Juergen "Rally" Fischer) wrote:
> >wait for vbl can't be considered good coding today.
>
> It's not bad coding, surely? How do you keep things synched with
> the display on overpowered machines, then?
>
> >I have changed ghost-mode to laced-ghost-mode, so pixel merge
> >also on monitor.
> >Is this enough to win 1st price here ? ;)
>
> I'm not convinced this is the right time to ask who's the best coder
> here, right when we're waiting for VKII, the XTR improvement,
> AB3DII, StarFighter, Rally, that horizontal shoot em up thing,
> and all manner of real soon now promises to appear.
Ok, add one more to the list... I love the old arcade games, mostly the
vector ones... I am planning a super-fast vector system (filled
objects are for wussies!) to allow easy programming of vector games:
Tempest?(I might do this,just to show what the system can do...)
Space Miner (MUCH improved Asteroids)
Star Fortress (Starcastle, but multiplayer,muti castle!)
smooth rotation, castle map scales smoothly in/out
a very weird pac-man clone...just wait till you see this one!
I love sound effects, I have 7 1 hour tapes full of them! I promise to
never use a "standard" sound effect for anything...
I'm using Blitz Basic II, I am AMAZED at the speed!
Still adding fuel to the rising fire of the Pheonix that is the Amiga;
may it never die!
Aaron Howald "The Vector Fool"-I wouldn't have it any other way!
> BTW.. Does best programmer mean fastest, most impressive 3D engine,
> or does it mean best -game- programmer? Major difference.
Believe me, these games will be simple,but stimulating, and FUN to play.
John Girvin
On Thu, 2 May 1996 00:57:53 -0700, William Howald wrote:
[Vector games]
:>Believe me, these games will be simple,but stimulating, and FUN to play.
Any demos or release dates?
Any chance of a just-like-you-remember-it Battlezone clone?
:)
/John, showing his age ;)
__________________________________________________________________________
|00 John Girvin: developing software for Unibol Inc., speaking for myself|
|\/jgi...@bfs.unibol.com | Amiga,!PC,net,Trek,SF,MTB,C2H50H,house,techno|
|gi...@girvnet.demon.co.uk | Youll never take me alive, Macro$loth fiends!|
\A1200/030-40/10M/3.0 A500/000-7/2M/2.04 464/Z80-4/0.0625M/1.0 Team AMIGA/
Juergen Rally Fischer
Marc Forrester (me...@aber.ac.uk) wrote:
: fisc...@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Juergen "Rally" Fischer) wrote:
: >wait for vbl can't be considered good coding today.
: It's not bad coding, surely? How do you keep things synched with
: the display on overpowered machines, then?
with a vbl TIMER. you check if a frame has already been shown
completely. so overpowered machines will be limited to
monitor framerate. using this method lower cpus will never
_wait_ for vbl, i.e. they will be fully used.
: I'm not convinced this is the right time to ask who's the best coder
: here, right when we're waiting for VKII, the XTR improvement,
: AB3DII, StarFighter, Rally, that horizontal shoot em up thing,
: and all manner of real soon now promises to appear.
A coder supporting gfx-cards, high cpus, fastmem and tasking will
get my vote.
: Okay, there's never an -ideal- time, but if we choose this second,
: we'll probably have seriously changed our minds three months on..
: BTW.. Does best programmer mean fastest, most impressive 3D engine,
: or does it mean best -game- programmer? Major difference.
you mean the game idea ? this is imho not what is meant here.
but: how the idea is implemented, counts, too.
for example if the idea is to make a racing simulation,
it is up to the coder to do it realistic.
impressive engine + good handling, that's imho coder part.
as well as compatibility and behaviour of the software.
Marc Forrester
fisc...@Informatik.TU-Muenchen.DE (Juergen "Rally" Fischer) wrote:
>: >wait for vbl can't be considered good coding today.
>
>: It's not bad coding, surely? How do you keep things synched with
>: the display on overpowered machines, then?
>
>with a vbl TIMER. you check if a frame has already been shown
>completely. so overpowered machines will be limited to
>monitor framerate. using this method lower cpus will never
>_wait_ for vbl, i.e. they will be fully used.
So.. You start work on the next frame while you wait for the screen
to finish displaying the one you just blitted? (Or coppered?)
>: BTW.. Does best programmer mean fastest, most impressive 3D engine,
>: or does it mean best -game- programmer? Major difference.
>
>you mean the game idea ? this is imho not what is meant here.
>but: how the idea is implemented, counts, too.
>
>impressive engine + good handling, that's imho coder part.
>as well as compatibility and behaviour of the software.
Yesss, I think we're in agreement. I'd place framerates and such
second fiddle to those less quantifiable, subjective aspects that
make it a game rather than an interactive demo, though.
User Interface, Intuitive in-game 'physical laws',
(The way cars skid, the computer AI, etc), that sort of thing.
Juergen Rally Fischer
Marc Forrester (me...@aber.ac.uk) wrote:
: So.. You start work on the next frame while you wait for the screen
: to finish displaying the one you just blitted? (Or coppered?)
'wait for screen to finish' is cpu polling vga vblank bit.
resource waste you only would do on a PC ;)