SimCity 2000 Amiga/A1200/Dates
Michael Robert Bromery
Chris Weiss <cwe...@netcom.com> wrote:
>Hey all, we're working on SimCity 2000 for the Amiga and have run
>into an ugly problem. I need to make a decision about it soon and
>would love some opinions from the users on this.
>
>Support 640x200 mode, which will allow all the near view
>graphics to fit on one low-density disk. We just came up
>with this and are probably missing out on a few negatives
>besides how ugly it'll look (like how many disks it'll take).
>This will push the release date back 6 weeks and will cost
>2 limbs (and probably my job).
>
>We really have no solid figures on the number of 4meg 1200
>machines without hard disks, so it's hard to say which
>decision will work best. I think it'll be PAL only, with
>multiple language support, but we're looking at selling
>outside the US only. What's the market like for those low
>end machines? Is it worth the trouble to support them?
>Which choice should we make?
>I _WOULD_ like to keep my job :)
>Are there other alternatives we're not thinking of?
>
>Just as an FYI - We expect(ed) to finish the product July
>1st. I don't know how long it'll take Mindscape to get it
>on the shelves though.
Ok, comming from one A1200 owner, I guess you meant for 2 megs of ram
on the stock A1200s because with 4 megs, you could load most of the game into
memory and hardly use the drives. Do what every other person does when they
have problems. Make it HD only. Already, there's an increasing amount of AGA
games that only support the HD so as for the market, it should be there as
lots of people who play games on the A1200 have already been forced to add
a HD in order to play this certain game they like. Also, there seemed to be
a bit more excitement for getting Hard-drives for those with AGA machines. As
for the NTSC/PAL problem, if you must make it PAL, then do like all the other
recent Maxis games do, make them mode-promotable so that everybody is happy.
With mode-promotion and non hard-coded screen requests, us Americans and NTSC
users will have a nice auto-scrolling screen if we wanted to use TVs.
Allowing that means that you can keep all your code the same with simply
the one-line change of not hard-coding the screen resolution in the program.
Yes, definitely make it HD only if you must, most of us can use it and you
wouldn't be doing anything different than a lot of other coders supporting the
AGA platform. You could, perhaps, use a powerpacker-type executable compression
scheme to allow running off of the disks, but I'm all for the HD push.
I truly believe that is your best bet. As I'm gearing to get some heavy work
done on the graphic engine of one game currently in development, I already
tossed the idea of making it floppy-runnable a while ago, floppies are a
joke if you want big games nowadays. Let Sierra stick with the 30 floppies to
flip idea (they practically invented it.)
-- Mike Bromery. (President of UMAUG - The University of Maryland
Email: dave...@wam.umd.edu Amiga Users Group.)
C.E. Wrigley
A base A1200 has 2 MEGS OF CHIP-RAM ONLY. And you thought you had problems
before...
Personally, I have a base A1200 with an 80 Mb hard drive, and I would be
somewhat pissed off if SimCity 2000 were not released with all the graphical
options (i.e. all levels of magnification). Perhaps if you had an option in
the game to turn of the higher resolutions (a la DOOM), or just a note saying
that floppy users should not change the level of detail unless they want a
lot of swapping. PLEASE don't cut down another great game just to make it
compatible with base machines - try and include everything.
Jinx.
m h kift
>Hey all, we're working on SimCity 2000 for the Amiga and have run
>into an ugly problem. I need to make a decision about it soon and
>would love some opinions from the users on this.
>
>Machines with 4 megs and no hard disk.
Well, I now how difficult it must be for you deciding on how to support
low-end machines and high-end machines alike. I'm afraid that I will
have to be negative and say that, if your SimCity2000 conversion comes
out with only lowres graphics, and a drastically lower number of colours
than the original, then I won't buy it, plain and simple.
I've been waiting for this game for ages, and to see the port crippled
because of low-end machine support is very painful. I'll understand if
you do it (afterall, you need to make a lot of sales to make a profit),
but this won't make the owners of high-end machines any happier.
While I'm on this subject, I was reading about Theme Park from Bullfrog
recently, another game I've been waiting for for ages. Unfortunately,
it seems that the amiga version will be the only one with cut down
graphics!!! Even the aga version will only have 32 colours, while the
pc, 3d0, jag, and even the bloody supernes version will probably have
256. I imagine that the more I read about it, the more I'll discover they
conveniently left out (like the hires aga port of syndicate we were
promised but which somehow failed to turn up).
Anyway, enough of my ranting.
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Martin Kift Email: M.H....@swansea.ac.uk |
| Software developer (C/C++/OWL/MFC) Finger: cek...@cekift.swan.ac.uk |
| Procede Software Ltd. UK. anon ftp: cek...@cekift.swan.ac.uk |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| A1200/80/68030 50mhz/6 megs/BlitzII. Next game: StarWoids, coming soon |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Mr J G Morton
91...@eng.cam.ac.uk (C.E. Wrigley) writes:
>Slow down a bit there - where did you get this idea that A1200s have 4 Megs?
>A base A1200 has 2 MEGS OF CHIP-RAM ONLY. And you thought you had problems
>before...
Is it to be AGA only? Or could a non-AGA version be brought out that uses
some enhanced configuration (e.g. oodles of memory)?
>
>Personally, I have a base A1200 with an 80 Mb hard drive, and I would be
>somewhat pissed off if SimCity 2000 were not released with all the graphical
>options (i.e. all levels of magnification). Perhaps if you had an option in
>the game to turn of the higher resolutions (a la DOOM), or just a note saying
>that floppy users should not change the level of detail unless they want a
>lot of swapping. PLEASE don't cut down another great game just to make it
>compatible with base machines - try and include everything.
I seem to remember Civilisation needing 3 disk changes in order to meet
the other rulers, this was before I stuck it on my hard drive. Just include
a note saying `Hard Drive prefered' and an explaination.
Anyway a lot of 1200 owners do have hard drives in my experience.
Will there be any improvements on the PC(eugh) version? I have seen this
and it looked impressive.
Jon(me)
--
+ ` You'd set the table for the barber Sweeny Todd, +
+ You'd clip the wings of any rising god ' - The Levellers +
+ Jon(me) - Ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk - Mataclypt to some. +
+ " Seen one messiah, seen them all. " - MtY +
Hannes Gnad
Hallole !
>Hey all, we're working on SimCity 2000 for the Amiga and have run
>into an ugly problem. I need to make a decision about it soon and
>would love some opinions from the users on this.
>
>The trouble is in supporting base-level Amiga 1200 machines.
>Machines with 4 megs and no hard disk.
>
>The trouble is thus:
>SimCity 2000 (for those who haven't seen) has 3 levels of
>magnification on your city. Tests with early Low Density
>disk based 4 meg machines indicates that to load the graphics
>for the near view, the user will have to swap 3 disks.
>This makes the game pretty much un-playable in that situation
>as the user changes zoom levels reasonably often.
>
>Solutions we have come up with:
>
>Do not support floppy-only systems (the original plan).
I think for a game like 'SimCity 2000', this is the right choice.
Force the users to have/buy HDs if they want to play such high-end games.
The users will do this (like all A500 users I knew bought one megabyte the
day 'Dungeon Master' was available).
And for the future, HD will be no question any more !
>Support the low-density floppy only systems in the 640x4??
>resolution and let the user suffer through the swaps (a
>hard disk version would be included). This will push the
>release date at least 2 weeks back, which will cost me a
>limb.
No good idea !
>Support 640x200 mode, which will allow all the near view
>graphics to fit on one low-density disk. We just came up
>with this and are probably missing out on a few negatives
>besides how ugly it'll look (like how many disks it'll take).
>This will push the release date back 6 weeks and will cost
>2 limbs (and probably my job).
640x200 ???!!!! For AGA !!! Nooooo !
>I think it'll be PAL only, with
>multiple language support, but we're looking at selling
>outside the US only. What's the market like for those low
>end machines? Is it worth the trouble to support them?
>Which choice should we make?
>I _WOULD_ like to keep my job :)
>Are there other alternatives we're not thinking of?
PLEASE: Not PAL only ! Pal means 50 Hz, and that means flicker !
Please make 'SimCity 2000' run on a standard screen, and include a standard
screen mode requester.
I use an A4000 and a multisync (and I will buy this game, hehe), and the
best screen mode to work with is Euro72 (about 654 x 410).
With scalable windows for the game display, this should be no problem.
Please do it ! Think about the people with 'bold' hardware, too !
Greetinx.
Gary Amiga 4000/040/6/420
(Hannes Gnad) Fido: 2:246/1115.11
Always remember - there's nothing better anymore - than the AMIGA
Alan Blair
> Hey all, we're working on SimCity 2000 for the Amiga and have run
> into an ugly problem. I need to make a decision about it soon and
> would love some opinions from the users on this.
>
> The trouble is in supporting base-level Amiga 1200 machines.
> Machines with 4 megs and no hard disk.
[...]
>
> We really have no solid figures on the number of 4meg 1200
> machines without hard disks, so it's hard to say which
> decision will work best. I think it'll be PAL only, with
> multiple language support, but we're looking at selling
> outside the US only. What's the market like for those low
> end machines? Is it worth the trouble to support them?
Er, the market _is_ those low end machines :) . There are plenty of hard-drive
machines out there, but it's not the majority (he says authoritatively :) ).
I'd say you should support as best you can, as long as it doesn't have a detrimental
effect on the hard-drive version. Or: release a hard drive only version, _then_
worry about cutting it down. Even if it's crippled, it'll sell (cf Wing Commander),
and maybe even clinch some hard-drive sales. Yes, that's it... do the hard-drive-only
release, and take it from there.
alan
> Which choice should we make?
> I _WOULD_ like to keep my job :)
> Are there other alternatives we're not thinking of?
>
> Just as an FYI - We expect(ed) to finish the product July
> 1st. I don't know how long it'll take Mindscape to get it
> on the shelves though.
>
>
> --
> Disclaimer: By the time you read this, I've forgotten I wrote it.
> Personal: cwe...@netcom.com Professional: cwe...@maxis.com
Chris Weiss
My mistake about the 1200 base level being 2 meg.
Do all Amiga 1200 machines ship with 880k drives?
Mathias Karlsson
>My mistake about the 1200 base level being 2 meg.
>Do all Amiga 1200 machines ship with 880k drives?
YES. And that is, IMHO, a BIG mistake (one of many) by C=.
No games or software can be distributed on 1760k drives just because of this.
:-(
vh MK
--
//
\X/ -- Death before Dishonour! Death before DOS!!! --
C.E. Wrigley
Is it just me, or does anyone else out there think that these guys HAVEN'T
GOT A CLUE ABOUT THE AMIGA ???!!! 4 Meg base A1200? Do we all have 880k
drives? (Yes, Chris, we do - only the A4000 comes with HD drives as
standard, I think)
I hope that this project doesn't turn out to be a straight PC code port like
Civilisation AGA. Don't get me wrong, I love Civ, but why is it so jerky and
slow on the A1200 compared to a PC? Perhaps because the programmers DIDN'T
KNOW THE MACHINE WELL ENOUGH??
Please, guys, I want to see SimCity 2000 scorching across my multiscan
monitor in productivity mode, with virtually no delays as it loads of my
hard-drive, so could you take a little time to investigate the Amiga fully
before you carry on. Perhaps treat yourselves and go and buy one? (Tell
your wife its for the kids:-) )
Jinx.
Jeff Hanna
C.E. Wrigley <91...@eng.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>In article <cweissCp...@netcom.com>,
>Chris Weiss <cwe...@netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>My mistake about the 1200 base level being 2 meg.
>>Do all Amiga 1200 machines ship with 880k drives?
>>
>GOT A CLUE ABOUT THE AMIGA ???!!! 4 Meg base A1200? Do we all have 880k
>drives? (Yes, Chris, we do - only the A4000 comes with HD drives as
>standard, I think)
GIVE THE GUY A BREAK! Geezus, a games producer comes on here asking for
our input and opinions and you FLAME him? Great way to offer support!
Is it his fault we only have 880k drives as standard? No! And, you are
wrong about the 4000 being the only Amigas with 880k drives. The 3000T and
some lucky late-run 3000s did. Now maybe you can begin to see why he
asked the question concerning disk drives. Some have 1.76 drives, some don't
and there is NO rhyme or reason to it. If one AGA machine has them, it isn't
that hard to think that maybe all AGA machines have them. Lord knows that with
C='s total lack of advertising for their machines it's hard for people not
"in the know" to get concrete information on the configurations!
>I hope that this project doesn't turn out to be a straight PC code port like
>Civilisation AGA. Don't get me wrong, I love Civ, but why is it so jerky and
>slow on the A1200 compared to a PC? Perhaps because the programmers DIDN'T
>KNOW THE MACHINE WELL ENOUGH??
Kind of wrong here too. The Civ AGA coders knew enough about the Amiga to
hard code CHIP MEM ONLY into CIV AGA. It sucks, and I don't understand why
they took the extra time to add in code for such a patently stupid idea
as that, but they did.
>
>Please, guys, I want to see SimCity 2000 scorching across my multiscan
>monitor in productivity mode, with virtually no delays as it loads of my
>hard-drive, so could you take a little time to investigate the Amiga fully
>before you carry on. Perhaps treat yourselves and go and buy one? (Tell
>your wife its for the kids:-) )
I agree with you on this last paragraph. In email I told Mr. Weiss that since
the game will be AGA only it would be better for them to support a
country independant resolution such as Productivity instead of hard-coding
a PAL screen. Even an option for the the display database would be better
than a hardcoded PAL screen. Heck, if they made the game OS compliant and
display-database savy all those people with 2.x and any one of the scads of
24 bit boards that offer AGA emulation -might- be able to use it. Of course
the game would have to run under Workbench and not kick the OS out. Gee, that
wouldn't be all that bad, now would it? :)
But, Productivity mode would be the nicest, since it offers the same
resolution/# of colors that the Mac and PC versions of Sim City 2000 are
programmed in!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Hanna | "Albert Einstein nailed space-time, but the
quar...@expert.cc.purdue.edu | Wild Thing had him stumped."
quar...@genie.geis.com | -Thomas Dolby
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Colas Nahaboo
|> Machines with 4 megs and no hard disk.
ask amiga format (UK mag). They made a reader survey recently, and
although they did not disclose the results, the editor pointed out that
there was a astonishing low figure of non-HD machines in the survey
I do not have their email, but the email of the sister publication amiga
shoper is: amsh...@cix.compulink
PS: if I were you, I'd play it safe. Maxis products do not interest action
gamers, and I think nearly all the others have a HD
--
Colas Nahaboo, Koala (Bull Research)
Mosaic Info: <A HREF="http://zenon.inria.fr:8003/koala/colas.html"></A>
C.E. Wrigley
>C.E. Wrigley <91...@eng.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>>Chris Weiss <cwe...@netcom.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>My mistake about the 1200 base level being 2 meg.
>>>Do all Amiga 1200 machines ship with 880k drives?
>>>
>>Is it just me, or does anyone else out there think that these guys HAVEN'T
>>GOT A CLUE ABOUT THE AMIGA ???!!! 4 Meg base A1200? Do we all have 880k
>>drives? (Yes, Chris, we do - only the A4000 comes with HD drives as
>>standard, I think)
>
>GIVE THE GUY A BREAK! Geezus, a games producer comes on here asking for
>our input and opinions and you FLAME him? Great way to offer support!
You're right, Jeff, I didn't actually intend a flame, so apologies to Chris
Weiss for my somewhat insulting earlier post. I should have realised that
not everyone is an Amiga fanatic.
>>I hope that this project doesn't turn out to be a straight PC code port like
>>Civilisation AGA. Don't get me wrong, I love Civ, but why is it so jerky and
>
>Kind of wrong here too. The Civ AGA coders knew enough about the Amiga to
>hard code CHIP MEM ONLY into CIV AGA. It sucks, and I don't understand why
>they took the extra time to add in code for such a patently stupid idea
>as that, but they did.
Oh, was that the reason? Well, you learn something new every day...
>>Please, guys, I want to see SimCity 2000 scorching across my multiscan
>>monitor in productivity mode, with virtually no delays as it loads of my
>>hard-drive, so could you take a little time to investigate the Amiga fully
>>before you carry on. Perhaps treat yourselves and go and buy one? (Tell
>>your wife its for the kids:-) )
>
>I agree with you on this last paragraph. In email I told Mr. Weiss that since
I still stick with this little wish list, even after Stefan Boberg's little
reminder that 256 colour Productivity is slow. After all, SimCity 2000 IMHO
will be a game that won't be complete without its high-res graphics.
Jinx.
Mathias Karlsson
>>Kind of wrong here too. The Civ AGA coders knew enough about the Amiga to
>>hard code CHIP MEM ONLY into CIV AGA. It sucks, and I don't understand why
>>they took the extra time to add in code for such a patently stupid idea
>>as that, but they did.
>Oh, was that the reason? Well, you learn something new every day...
Maybe they were lazy and/or stupid...
>>>Please, guys, I want to see SimCity 2000 scorching across my multiscan
>>>monitor in productivity mode, with virtually no delays as it loads of my
>>>hard-drive, so could you take a little time to investigate the Amiga fully
>>>before you carry on. Perhaps treat yourselves and go and buy one? (Tell
>>>your wife its for the kids:-) )
> I still stick with this little wish list, even after Stefan Boberg's little
>reminder that 256 colour Productivity is slow. After all, SimCity 2000 IMHO
>will be a game that won't be complete without its high-res graphics.
Yes, Productivity isn't exactly blistering fast, but, as far as I know, if you
have a VGA or multiscan monitor, you probably have an Amiga 4000. Most people
I know with 1200s have 1084/8833 15KHz-50/60Hz RGB-monitors, or TV-sets and
they're not interested in productivity-mode anyway. So, most people with
productivity-mode compatible monitors probably have fast computers as well.
The best solution would, of course, be like this: Support all graphic modes
from 320x200*32 up to 640x512*256 DBL-PAL. But the last resolution will not
be very fast on a plain A1200...
Another question, is 256 colours really necessary? Some speed increases can be
made by using just 128 colours. Or even 64. But I guess this is a little bit
too low.
Stefan Boberg
>>Please, guys, I want to see SimCity 2000 scorching across my multiscan
^^^^^^^^^
>>monitor in productivity mode, with virtually no delays as it loads of my
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>hard-drive, so could you take a little time to investigate the Amiga fully
>>before you carry on. Perhaps treat yourselves and go and buy one? (Tell
>>your wife its for the kids:-) )
I'm sorry, but the underlined verb is not compatible with the
underlined noun. The two shouldn't be used in the same clause without a
negation stuffed in somewhere ;-)
I wouldn't want to play anything running in 256 colour productivity mode,
really. It's S*L*O*W.
--
Stefan Boberg, Amiga/CD32/Console Programmer - Team 17 Software/LhA Devel.
======== I work for Team 17, but my opinions sometimes do not ==========
==== Living in a satellite fantasy, waiting for the night to end =PSB=
Sean - Curtin
As another deprived USA Amiga owner I vote for a standard screenmode requester.
It's just an OS call and IT would make the game compatible across all video
standards. Make the width/height/depth fixed if you want (autoscroll) but
make the screenmode user-selectable.
As for floppy/ HD support, make it HD only, if you have to. Most AGA machines
already have hard drives, and those that don't at least already have the
interface, so someone wanting to upgrade need only buy the drive itself.
Hell, I would almost buya Mac emulator to run this game.
Oh yeah, copy protection. As long as I have the opportunity let me say this:
NO DONGLES or KEYDISKS!!! I cannot be more emphatic about this. They are a
pain in the ass, and just encourage people to wait for a cracked version.
Manual protection, codewheels, etc. I can deal with, but the other...yecch.
I seem to recall Maxis as being pretty good about this anyway.
One more thing...let me shamelessly beg for USA distribution. There are
more of us out here than you think. It's just a bigger country than
England or Germany, so we're farther between. Even if it's only available
at one or two mail-order houses, my check is as good as in the mail.
Lastly, let me thank you for asking potential end users what they want in the
game. I wish more games manufacturers did the same.
...Sean.
Hans-Joerg Frieden
Regards, Hans-Joerg.
--
Hans-Joerg Frieden ! EMail: ! The Borg
Schlossstrasse 176 ! in...@uni-trier.de (preferred) ! SpreadSheet:
54293 Trier ! hfri...@treveris.uni-trier.de !
++49 (0) 651 66410 ! fri...@rzbsdi01.uni-trier.de ! Locutus 1-2-3
Geoff Adams
>In article <cweissCp...@netcom.com>, cwe...@netcom.com (Chris Weiss)
>writes:
>|> The trouble is in supporting base-level Amiga 1200 machines.
>|> Machines with 4 megs and no hard disk.
>
>ask amiga format (UK mag). They made a reader survey recently, and
>although they did not disclose the results, the editor pointed out that
>there was a astonishing low figure of non-HD machines in the survey
>
>I do not have their email, but the email of the sister publication amiga
>shoper is: amsh...@cix.compulink
>
>PS: if I were you, I'd play it safe. Maxis products do not interest action
>gamers, and I think nearly all the others have a HD
AF's email address is:-
okay??
Geoff.
Hans Guijt
>>Personally, I have a base A1200 with an 80 Mb hard drive, and I would be
>>somewhat pissed off if SimCity 2000 were not released with all the graphical
>>options (i.e. all levels of magnification). Perhaps if you had an option in
>>the game to turn of the higher resolutions (a la DOOM), or just a note saying
>>that floppy users should not change the level of detail unless they want a
>>lot of swapping. PLEASE don't cut down another great game just to make it
>>compatible with base machines - try and include everything.
Yes! Give us all the good bits, and add switches to turn them off if you
don't have the memory or HD. That way you could run lean from just one or
two disks, if necessary, while still making the game attractive for users
with loaded machines.
>Anyway a lot of 1200 owners do have hard drives in my experience.
Not surprising, the 10-second poll time encourages one to buy a HD!
>Will there be any improvements on the PC(eugh) version? I have seen this
>and it looked impressive.
For know let's hope it isn't degraded too much...
By the way, do you (the programmers) intent to write your own windowing
environment, or will you use Intuition?
Hans
Hans Guijt
>>Do not support floppy-only systems (the original plan).
>
>I think for a game like 'SimCity 2000', this is the right choice.
>Force the users to have/buy HDs if they want to play such high-end games.
>The users will do this (like all A500 users I knew bought one megabyte the
>day 'Dungeon Master' was available).
>And for the future, HD will be no question any more !
Yes. The more games there are which are HD-only, the more people will buy
HD's.
>>I think it'll be PAL only, with
>
>PLEASE: Not PAL only ! Pal means 50 Hz, and that means flicker !
Weeny! Most amiga users run in Pal, and almost none of those notice the
flickering! And Pal gives you more pixels to play with, which is a great for
a game like this. But your next suggestion makes sense:
>Please make 'SimCity 2000' run on a standard screen, and include a standard
>screen mode requester.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Simcity 2000 runs in some kind of windowing
environment, doesn't it? If that is the case, simply use Intuition windows
(and all nice 3.0 features - surely the game isn't written for 1.2
machines!!?). Supporting different screen modes would be very easy then.
Also, users could choose interlace/noninterlace/Dblxxx if they wanted too,
most users don't have multisyncs you know! (interlace flicker is a lot worse
then Pal flicker...)
Hans
Hans Guijt
>>My mistake about the 1200 base level being 2 meg.
>>Do all Amiga 1200 machines ship with 880k drives?
>
>YES. And that is, IMHO, a BIG mistake (one of many) by C=.
We all heard the excuses for the drive. But a4000's ship with HD drives,
hard disks, and lots of RAM, so perhaps you could make this an a4000-only
release! (just joking of course...)
>No games or software can be distributed on 1760k drives just because of this.
Distribution is not the problem, if there is a nice fat HD to install onto.
Hans Guijt
>GIVE THE GUY A BREAK! Geezus, a games producer comes on here asking for
>our input and opinions and you FLAME him? Great way to offer support!
On the other hand, there have been some terribly-coded games from the
states. Civilization is a good example indeed.
>Is it his fault we only have 880k drives as standard? No! And, you are
>wrong about the 4000 being the only Amigas with 880k drives. The 3000T and
>some lucky late-run 3000s did. Now maybe you can begin to see why he
>asked the question concerning disk drives. Some have 1.76 drives, some don't
>and there is NO rhyme or reason to it. If one AGA machine has them, it isn't
>that hard to think that maybe all AGA machines have them. Lord knows that with
>C='s total lack of advertising for their machines it's hard for people not
>"in the know" to get concrete information on the configurations!
If you hold this against the amiga, you should take a look at the PC market.
It could be much, much worse.
>I agree with you on this last paragraph. In email I told Mr. Weiss that since
>the game will be AGA only it would be better for them to support a
>country independant resolution such as Productivity instead of hard-coding
>a PAL screen. Even an option for the the display database would be better
>than a hardcoded PAL screen. Heck, if they made the game OS compliant and
>display-database savy all those people with 2.x and any one of the scads of
>24 bit boards that offer AGA emulation -might- be able to use it. Of course
>the game would have to run under Workbench and not kick the OS out. Gee, that
>wouldn't be all that bad, now would it? :)
Kicking the OS out is a stupid move for a game that needs constant HD
access, so it probably allows some form of multitasking.
>But, Productivity mode would be the nicest, since it offers the same
>resolution/# of colors that the Mac and PC versions of Sim City 2000 are
>programmed in!
Screen mode requesters and scalable windows would be nicer, since it is a
superset of what you are proposing!
Todd Gilbert
> I think it'll be PAL only, with
> multiple language support, but we're looking at selling
> outside the US only.
please please PLEASE sell this game in the US!!!!!
I have a 4000/040 so I can't be in your sample space for the A1200
question,
but if you must support the low end machines could you perhaps make two
versions--One for machines with hard drives the other for those without.
That way you could release the HD version first and keep your limbs and
take
the extra 2-6 weeks to get out the low end game.
Wow, a high end game ported to the low end?! My vision of the universe
is changing :>
Regards
Todd
--
tgil...@salsa.abq.bdm.com The owls are not what they seem
or " @nacho.abq.bdm.com And neither are the penguins
"Have you ever noticed that we tend to elevate to the level
of expert anyone who happens to agree with us?"
Daniel Cannon
> AF's email address is:-
> okay??
Anyone tried calling up that Spong thing? Every time I try the number (morning/
afternoon weekends) it just rings, and rings, and rings. And rings.
I'm using the number mentioned in the latest AF (if they've managed to print
the right number, that is).
I'll be damned if I'm ringing up during office hours for 'em. Nope, the super-
information-cyber-techno-space-highway or whatever it's called this time can
wait, as far as my phone bill is concerned.
Dan.
Bob Tomasevich
CW> Hey all, we're working on SimCity 2000 for the Amiga and have run
CW> into an ugly problem. I need to make a decision about it soon and
CW> would love some opinions from the users on this.
CW> The trouble is in supporting base-level Amiga 1200 machines.
CW> Machines with 4 megs and no hard disk.
CW> Solutions we have come up with:
CW> Do not support floppy-only systems (the original plan).
The best choice.
CW> Support 640x200 mode, which will allow all the near view
CW> graphics to fit on one low-density disk. We just came up
CW> with this and are probably missing out on a few negatives
CW> besides how ugly it'll look (like how many disks it'll take).
CW> This will push the release date back 6 weeks and will cost
CW> 2 limbs (and probably my job).
Do this and I WILL NOT BUY THE GAME!!!! I have been waiting
for this game for a long time and would HATE playing it in
low-res mode on my A4000/040.
Looking forward to a high-res, mode promotable version,
Bob
* Q-Blue 1.0 [NR] *
Bill Godfrey
Colas Nahaboo <co...@crios.inria.fr> wrote:
>I do not have their email, but the email of the sister publication amiga
>shoper is: amsh...@cix.compulink
I can't confirm wheather the amshopper part of this e-mail address is correct,
as I don't read Amiga Shopper, but Cix's e-mail suffix is...
@cix.compulink.co.uk
... The one given above will only work if you are in the *.co.uk domain.
Sorry for being picky.
--
Enjoy yourself.
- Bill "The Big Furry Hamster" Godfrey.
P.S. "I'm good at the course, I just keep forgetting the coursework
deadlines!" - Me. 7th March 1994.
Brian S Mogged
: Hey all, we're working on SimCity 2000 for the Amiga and have run
: into an ugly problem. I need to make a decision about it soon and
: would love some opinions from the users on this.
Great to hear you are asking usenet for information.....
The port of SimLife was almost perfect.... I hope the same for Sim CIty..
: The trouble is in supporting base-level Amiga 1200 machines.
: Machines with 4 megs and no hard disk.
Isn't that 4 megs... But you probably mean 2 :-)....
: Solutions we have come up with:
: Do not support floppy-only systems (the original plan).
I would hope that is your decision, force more people to buy hard
drives. I really like ST25 aniversery for that fact alone. That they wern't
afraid of release a semi slow hard drive only game(BUt not on an MBX-030).
To be honest out of five 1200 owners that I know of, none of them
bought the "offical commodore hard drive installtion kit" but all have
hard drives(Most of them used the XDS system really nice)....
: Support the low-density floppy only systems in the 640x4??
That is probably get you more sales but it will frustrate users. But
if it is the only way to relase it :-)
: Just as an FYI - We expect(ed) to finish the product July
: 1st. I don't know how long it'll take Mindscape to get it
: on the shelves though.
Hopefully it will be out by August..... Anyword of making it CD32
happy!
--
Brian.s...@Uwrf.edu <- send all mail to this address....
Michel J. Brown
d3k...@dtek.chalmers.se (Mathias Karlsson) writes:
> cwe...@netcom.com (Chris Weiss) writes:
>
>
> >My mistake about the 1200 base level being 2 meg.
> >Do all Amiga 1200 machines ship with 880k drives?
>
> YES. And that is, IMHO, a BIG mistake (one of many) by C=.
>
> No games or software can be distributed on 1760k drives just because of this.
>
I beg to differ with you, as the last eighteen disks of the Video Toaster
3.X package are *all* high density disks. I have a high density drive I
bought from my dealer a while back for $95. Works great, more filling ;^)
Virtually yours,
Michel
>
> :-(
>
> vh MK
> --
> //
> \X/ -- Death before Dishonour! Death before DOS!!! --
>
Michel didn't change this, cause he thought he didn't have a .signature,
so we made one for him... feel free to make fun of him.
Michel J. Brown
quar...@expert.cc.purdue.edu (Jeff Hanna) writes:
>
> Kind of wrong here too. The Civ AGA coders knew enough about the Amiga to
> hard code CHIP MEM ONLY into CIV AGA. It sucks, and I don't understand why
> they took the extra time to add in code for such a patently stupid idea
> as that, but they did.
>
They must've been the same group that coded for Sim Ant :-/
>
>
> I agree with you on this last paragraph. In email I told Mr. Weiss that since
> the game will be AGA only it would be better for them to support a
> country independant resolution such as Productivity instead of hard-coding
> a PAL screen. Even an option for the the display database would be better
> than a hardcoded PAL screen. Heck, if they made the game OS compliant and
> display-database savy all those people with 2.x and any one of the scads of
> 24 bit boards that offer AGA emulation -might- be able to use it. Of course
> the game would have to run under Workbench and not kick the OS out. Gee, that
> wouldn't be all that bad, now would it? :)
>
My thought exactly, then I'd get better/more use from my PII card ;^)
>
> But, Productivity mode would be the nicest, since it offers the same
> resolution/# of colors that the Mac and PC versions of Sim City 2000 are
> programmed in!
>
Sure, why not, then I'd be a snap to port, right? Just a thought :^)
Virtually yours,
Michel
Tony Marshall
>
> >Will there be any improvements on the PC(eugh) version? I have seen this
> >and it looked impressive.
>
> For know let's hope it isn't degraded too much...
>
> By the way, do you (the programmers) intent to write your own windowing
> environment, or will you use Intuition?
>
assume all these vital details have already been decided upon and implemented.
Get a UK Amiga mag for the latest previews.
--
Tony Marshall |===============================================|
Carlisle, UK |#include <JeanMichelJarre.TangerineDream.Yello.|
to...@zigzag.junct9.royle.org|.Neuronium.PetShopBoys.BerndKistenmacher.Ashra>|
bli...@spuddy.uucp |===============================================|
Hans Guijt
>> By the way, do you (the programmers) intent to write your own windowing
>> environment, or will you use Intuition?
>>
>Eh? The program's already been converted by John Jones Steele in the UK so I
>assume all these vital details have already been decided upon and implemented.
>Get a UK Amiga mag for the latest previews.
Oh, I didn't get that. Well, does it run in its own windowing environment,
or does it use intuition ;-) ?
Hans
Chris Weiss
into an ugly problem. I need to make a decision about it soon and
would love some opinions from the users on this.
The trouble is in supporting base-level Amiga 1200 machines.
Machines with 4 megs and no hard disk.
The trouble is thus:
SimCity 2000 (for those who haven't seen) has 3 levels of
magnification on your city. Tests with early Low Density
disk based 4 meg machines indicates that to load the graphics
for the near view, the user will have to swap 3 disks.
This makes the game pretty much un-playable in that situation
as the user changes zoom levels reasonably often.
Solutions we have come up with:
Do not support floppy-only systems (the original plan).
Support the low-density floppy only systems in the 640x4??
resolution and let the user suffer through the swaps (a
hard disk version would be included). This will push the
release date at least 2 weeks back, which will cost me a
limb.
Support 640x200 mode, which will allow all the near view
graphics to fit on one low-density disk. We just came up
with this and are probably missing out on a few negatives
besides how ugly it'll look (like how many disks it'll take).
This will push the release date back 6 weeks and will cost
2 limbs (and probably my job).
We really have no solid figures on the number of 4meg 1200
machines without hard disks, so it's hard to say which
decision will work best. I think it'll be PAL only, with
multiple language support, but we're looking at selling
outside the US only. What's the market like for those low
end machines? Is it worth the trouble to support them?
Which choice should we make?
I _WOULD_ like to keep my job :)
Are there other alternatives we're not thinking of?
Just as an FYI - We expect(ed) to finish the product July
1st. I don't know how long it'll take Mindscape to get it
on the shelves though.
Adarsh Menon
you can get it. The first step has already been taken as far as
supporting AGA is concerned, might as well go all the way.
SimCity2000 is a big enough name that people who want to play it
(which I'm sure represents a LOT of people) will buy what it
takes to play it. I know I would...
Just my $50 (when it comes out)...
--
// Adarsh Menon Budding Computer Scientist
\\_// University of Calgary, Amiga 2000 40 MhZ 030
\X/ Alberta, Canada 5.0 L Mustang
Paul Overend
>IMO the quality standards of this game should be kept as high as
>you can get it. The first step has already been taken as far as
>supporting AGA is concerned, might as well go all the way.
>
Sorry I missed much of this thread. This may have already been said. Does it
'support' AGA or is it AGA only??
>
> // Adarsh Menon Budding Computer Scientist
> \\_// University of Calgary, Amiga 2000 40 MhZ 030
> \X/ Alberta, Canada 5.0 L Mustang
Paul G. Overend
Mike
Paul Overend <ccs...@midge.bath.ac.uk> wrote:
>Sorry I missed much of this thread. This may have already been said. Does it
>'support' AGA or is it AGA only??
Looks like AGA-only - thank god.
Mike.
You can reach Mike Richards at the following /@\ \|/
address ... (if you're that desperate). `-\ \ ______ - 0 -
\ \/ ` / \ /|\ _
m...@aber.ac.uk \_i / \ |\____//
| |==| |=----/
---- Why not drop me a line ...? -------------------hn/--hn/-----------
Chris Weiss
machines. Sorry, 4 meg is required. I talked to John about the code and
he is going to try to implement a screen mode requester.
FYI - No, I don't know much about Amigas. Very few people in the US office
do. We're contracting a UK programmer (John Steele, the guy who wrote
SimLife) to do the programming, and our UK office is going to handle
distribution (whether or not it'll be available in the US, I don't know
probably direct from Maxis US - please don't call until you know it's
out :)
Zsolt Szabo
>SimCity2000 is a big enough name that people who want to play it
>(which I'm sure represents a LOT of people) will buy what it
>takes to play it. I know I would...
>Just my $50 (when it comes out)...
Sure. Let me just go out and spend $500 so I can play a game, why don't you!