386BB Help
kr...@azstarnet.com
>2 Mb of ZIP RAM (1M X 4), making 3Mb in total, but because I could get only
>70ns ZIPS the only way I could get the Bridgeboard to recognise the extra
>memory was to set DRAM Wait States to '1', and Page Mode to 'Disabled'.
They must be Static Column DRAMs, because 70 ns is precisely what you need
for the BB at 25 Mhz, but of course in the Page Mode flavor. If they are
Page Mode, then you really have a problem!
Jordan Krim
Brent Busby
: They must be Static Column DRAMs, because 70 ns is precisely what you need
: for the BB at 25 Mhz, but of course in the Page Mode flavor. If they are
: Page Mode, then you really have a problem!
I may be misunderstanding something, but, I thought the bridgeboard *favored*
the use of page mode memory, doesn't it? The Amiga native side, being a flat
memory Motorola based system likes static column, and the bridgeboard, being
Intel based with the infamous 640K/64K walls all over the place likes page
mode. Or does it? I have 8MB of uninstalled ZIPs that I haven't put in yet
that are *page* mode, so I certainly hope I'm right about this, because that
was very expensive... :-)
--
Amiga /// | | "They had a glow-in-the-dark
040 /// | Brent Busby ("Sequencer") | Santa in their yard. Santa
\\\/// | clae...@prairienet.org | isn't radioactive, is he?
\XX/ | | Cool beans. Nuclear Santa."
John S. Burger
On or about 18-Feb-96 01:50:10 Brent Busby typed the following words about
"Re: 386BB Help". My reply is thus...
BB> kr...@azstarnet.com wrote:
BB>: They must be Static Column DRAMs, because 70 ns is precisely what you n
BB>: for the BB at 25 Mhz, but of course in the Page Mode flavor. If they a
BB>: Page Mode, then you really have a problem!
BB> I may be misunderstanding something, but, I thought the bridgeboard *favo
BB> the use of page mode memory, doesn't it? The Amiga native side, being a
BB> memory Motorola based system likes static column, and the bridgeboard, be
BB> Intel based with the infamous 640K/64K walls all over the place likes pag
BB> mode. Or does it? I have 8MB of uninstalled ZIPs that I haven't put in
BB> that are *page* mode, so I certainly hope I'm right about this, because t
BB> was very expensive... :-)
Yes the BB most certainly takes Page Mode ZIPs.
--
// -= John =- jsbu...@xmission.com BIX: jburger
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Todd M Pederson
Brent Busby <clae...@prairienet.org> wrote:
>kr...@azstarnet.com wrote:
>: They must be Static Column DRAMs, because 70 ns is precisely what you need
>: for the BB at 25 Mhz, but of course in the Page Mode flavor. If they are
>: Page Mode, then you really have a problem!
>
>the use of page mode memory, doesn't it? The Amiga native side, being a flat
>memory Motorola based system likes static column, and the bridgeboard, being
>Intel based with the infamous 640K/64K walls all over the place likes page
>mode. Or does it? I have 8MB of uninstalled ZIPs that I haven't put in yet
>that are *page* mode, so I certainly hope I'm right about this, because that
The A2386 uses page zips. With 3 Mbytes installed the 256 kbytes x 4
should be in banks 0 and 1 while the 1 Mbyte x 4s would be in bank 2. If
they are all page zips then there has to be something else going on to cause
the problem.
I have 8 Mbytes of 70ns page zips on my A2386 and haven't had any
problems with it. I have page mode enabled (of course) and I think wait
states are also enabled (I'm not sure and I'm not going to interrupt it, yet).
--
Michael Pederson Psychology Department User Services
pede...@gold.tc.umn.edu 251 Elliott Hall 75 East River Road
VMail 612/626-0363 Pager 612/539-5664 University of Minnesota - Minneapolis
Scott Timberlake
PGD> the past 2 years. Its fitted with its own 3 1/2 FD, a 120Mb HD, a VGA
PGD> card and an I/O card with its own mouse. I have run all kinds of MSDOS
PGD> programs without any problems, plus the ADOS and MSDOS bridge worked
PGD> perfectly.
PGD> Having decided to have a go with Windows 3.1, I recently installed an
PGD> extra 2 Mb of ZIP RAM (1M X 4), making 3Mb in total, but because I
PGD> could get only 70ns ZIPS the only way I could get the Bridgeboard to
PGD> recognise the extra memory was to set DRAM Wait States to '1', and Page
PGD> Mode to 'Disabled'. However, it seems the side effect of doing this,
PGD> is that when the card boots I get "No Janus Memory Structure found!".
PGD> Following the boot, Windows boots up OK, but on some occasions there is
PGD> no response from the keyboard. Also, of course, aread, awrite and
PGD> atime do not work.
PGD> I would appreciate some help on this. Obviously there is some sort of
PGD> addressing conflict, but I am not at all experienced with the
PGD> Amiga/MSDOS interface.
Wait states have nothing to do with memory type, just speed. It appears that
you have static column zips instead of the preferred page mode, but at 70ns,
they are definitely fast enough. That is the same speed I have. I can't
imagine why it won't boot unless wait state is set to one...
BTW, for Windows 3.1, you REALLY want to have 4m ram, not 3m. Virtually all
Windows programs require 4m, and many require 8m. With that little memory,
you also won't be able to run with a disk cache of any appreciable size, which
really does help speed up your system. (And yes, I realize that the reason you
have 3m ram is so that you could use the 256x4s that came with it. But the
Windows programs aren't going to care about that ;-)
Scott
* Q-Blue 2.0 [NR] *
sli...@ccnet.com
-> In <19960215.75...@weynet.demon.co.uk>, pdu...@weynet.demon.co.uk (Peter G Ducker) writes:
-> >2 Mb of ZIP RAM (1M X 4), making 3Mb in total, but because I could get only
-> >70ns ZIPS the only way I could get the Bridgeboard to recognise the extra
-> >memory was to set DRAM Wait States to '1', and Page Mode to 'Disabled'.
-> They must be Static Column DRAMs, because 70 ns is precisely what you need
-> for the BB at 25 Mhz, but of course in the Page Mode flavor. If they are
-> Page Mode, then you really have a problem!
-> Jordan Krim
->
->
->>>>
This is completely WRONG! Direct from the A2386 Bridgeboard manual and service manual
(I think you were thinking of the A3000) the bridgeboard should be populated with
PAGE mode zips for best performance not static column zips, remember we're talking about
an IBM here not an Amiga 3000. And speeds from 60-100ns are acceptable. Again directly
from the A2386 Bridgeboard service manual, you should use PAGE mode zips.
From the first poster since he had 1 mb to begin with, his bridgeboard was populated
with 256X4 not 1x4....The bridgeboards came with 256x4 drams and to populate it
to a full 8megs you had to dump the 256x4 and populate the whole bridgeboard with
1x4 PAGE mode zips. There is no way to have 3mb of ram only on the bridgeboard as
it takes a minimum of 4 1x4 zips to get 2mb. Your setup must have been 4 256x4(4pieces)
and 4 1x4 (4pieces) to get 3 megs which will not work since you can't reliably mix 256x4 and
1x4 (straight from the service manual again) You will need to pull the 256x4, and add
1x4 PAGE mode zips. 4 chips equals 2 megs when using 1x4 PAGE mode zips.
And you have to populate using 1x4 zips 4 chips at a time for it to be recognized.
laterzzz.
James Vigliotti
sli...@ccnet.com
John S. Burger
On or about 19-Feb-96 20:16:15 slider typed the following words about "Re:
386BB Help". My reply is thus...
s> -> kr...@azstarnet.com writes:
s> -> In <19960215.75...@weynet.demon.co.uk>, pdu...@weynet.demon.c
s> -> >2 Mb of ZIP RAM (1M X 4), making 3Mb in total, but because I could ge
s> -> >70ns ZIPS the only way I could get the Bridgeboard to recognise the e
s> -> >memory was to set DRAM Wait States to '1', and Page Mode to 'Disabled
s> -> They must be Static Column DRAMs, because 70 ns is precisely what you
s> -> for the BB at 25 Mhz, but of course in the Page Mode flavor. If they
s> -> Page Mode, then you really have a problem!
s> -> Jordan Krim
s> ->
s> ->
s> ->>>>
s> This is completely WRONG! Direct from the A2386 Bridgeboard manual and ser
s> (I think you were thinking of the A3000) the bridgeboard should be populat
s> PAGE mode zips for best performance not static column zips, remember we're
s> an IBM here not an Amiga 3000. And speeds from 60-100ns are acceptable. Ag
s> from the A2386 Bridgeboard service manual, you should use PAGE mode zips.
s> From the first poster since he had 1 mb to begin with, his bridgeboard was
s> with 256X4 not 1x4....The bridgeboards came with 256x4 drams and to popula
s> to a full 8megs you had to dump the 256x4 and populate the whole bridgeboa
s> 1x4 PAGE mode zips. There is no way to have 3mb of ram only on the bridgeb
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
s> it takes a minimum of 4 1x4 zips to get 2mb. Your setup must have been 4 2
s> and 4 1x4 (4pieces) to get 3 megs which will not work since you can't reli
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
s> 1x4 (straight from the service manual again) You will need to pull the 256
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
s> 1x4 PAGE mode zips. 4 chips equals 2 megs when using 1x4 PAGE mode zips.
s> And you have to populate using 1x4 zips 4 chips at a time for it to be rec
s> laterzzz.
There is a conflict between the users manual and the service manual. Yes the
chips should be Page Mode but you can mix 256K and 1M chips, just not in the
same bank. And yes you can have 3 megs of RAM on the board. You leave the
original 256K chips in banks 0 and 1 and put 2megs of 1M chips in bank 2 and
leave bank 3 empty. This is straight from the users manual. The users manual
lists the following memory configurations. 0.5 ,1.0 ,1.5 and 2.0 megs using
all 256K chips. Also listed is 3.0 and 5.0 megs using a mixture of 256K and 1M
chips. Then there is 2.0 ,4.0 ,6.0 and 8.0 megs using 1M chips.
I have been using 5megs for years in my BB. This is the original 1meg of 256K
chips in banks 0 and 1, and 4megs of 1M chips in banks 2 and 3.
--
// -= John =- jsbu...@xmission.com BIX: jburger
\X/ Via
Amateur Radio KB0ES T
Amiga 2000 H
A2630 A2632 John S. Burger Hooper, UT O
2+14megs RAM R
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--
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Allen White
Remi Lenoir
> There is a conflict between the users manual and the service manual. Yes the
Service Manual, you said Service Manual ? Does any one of you has a Service Manual
with a technical description of the board, schematics, etc .. ? I didn't know a
Service Manual had been released for the A2386SX.
Remi.
Scott Olson
> kr...@azstarnet.com wrote:
> : They must be Static Column DRAMs, because 70 ns is precisely what you need
> : for the BB at 25 Mhz, but of course in the Page Mode flavor. If they are
> : Page Mode, then you really have a problem!
>
> I may be misunderstanding something, but, I thought the bridgeboard *favored*
> the use of page mode memory, doesn't it? The Amiga native side, being a flat
> memory Motorola based system likes static column, and the bridgeboard, being
> Intel based with the infamous 640K/64K walls all over the place likes page
> mode. Or does it? I have 8MB of uninstalled ZIPs that I haven't put in yet
> that are *page* mode, so I certainly hope I'm right about this, because that
You are correct, the Bridgeboard prefers page-mode ZIPs.
Scott
Adrian Le Pera
> This is completely WRONG! Direct from the A2386 Bridgeboard manual and
service manual
> James Vigliotti
> sli...@ccnet.com
Is there really a service manual for the A2386 Bridgeboard! Could you post
some info on the input/output ports and schematic? I'm trying to write
some software to use the amiga sound for the Bridgeboard and anything
could help.
Thankx,
Adrian Le Pera
slp...@cup.portal.com
sli...@ccnet.com
-> Hi,
->
-> > There is a conflict between the users manual and the service manual. Yes the
->
-> Service Manual, you said Service Manual ? Does any one of you has a Service Manual
-> with a technical description of the board, schematics, etc .. ? I didn't know a
-> Service Manual had been released for the A2386SX.
->
-> Remi.
->
->>>>
Don't know if it was released or not, I borrowed it from a friend who used to
be an "Authorized Commodore Repair Center" worker
I.E. People that were usually kept in the dark with little support from
"Commode-Door" Buisness Machines LTD.
I do not have a scanner to scan the goodies out of the service manual.
"Not many, pretty lame service manual compared to those for the main systems"
But if I can get use of the scanner at work to do it I will gladly mail anyone, up to
a limit of course! Don't want to field 100's of requests. Wonder if AMINET would
accept it under Hardware or something?
Anyway I'll post back if I can do this...
laterzzzz
James Vigliotti
sli...@ccnet.com
Tom Meudt
>I have used a 25 MHz 386 Bridgeboard, with 1Mb RAM, in a 4000/030 for the
>past 2 years. Its fitted with its own 3 1/2 FD, a 120Mb HD, a VGA card and
>an I/O card with its own mouse. I have run all kinds of MSDOS programs
>without any problems, plus the ADOS and MSDOS bridge worked perfectly.
>Having decided to have a go with Windows 3.1, I recently installed an extra
>2 Mb of ZIP RAM (1M X 4), making 3Mb in total, but because I could get only
>70ns ZIPS the only way I could get the Bridgeboard to recognise the extra
>memory was to set DRAM Wait States to '1', and Page Mode to 'Disabled'.
>However, it seems the side effect of doing this, is that when the card
>boots I get "No Janus Memory Structure found!". Following the boot,
>Windows boots up OK, but on some occasions there is no response from the
>keyboard. Also, of course, aread, awrite and atime do not work.
>I would appreciate some help on this. Obviously there is some sort of
>addressing conflict, but I am not at all experienced with the Amiga/MSDOS
>interface.
>Thanks in anticipation
>--
>--------------------------------------------
>Peter Ducker
>Weymouth, Dorset, UK
>email: pdu...@weynet.demon.co.uk
> PGP-key available on request.
they must be page mode zipps static columns will not work oa a bridgeboard
<tsb>Tom Meudt * tme...@empirenet.com
--
<tsb>TCP by AmiTCP/IP
--
<tsb>Written w/ Thor
sli...@ccnet.com
-> In article <4ga47v$k...@ccnet2.ccnet.com>, sli...@ccnet.com wrote:
->
->
-> > This is completely WRONG! Direct from the A2386 Bridgeboard manual and
-> service manual
->
-> > James Vigliotti
-> > sli...@ccnet.com
-> Is there really a service manual for the A2386 Bridgeboard! Could you post
-> some info on the input/output ports and schematic? I'm trying to write
-> some software to use the amiga sound for the Bridgeboard and anything
-> could help.
-> Thankx,
-> Adrian Le Pera
-> slp...@cup.portal.com
->
->>>>
There is but i wary of the copyright on it. Im trying to contact AT about the possibillity
of reprinting it in whole or part to say Aminet or other.
James Vigliotti
sli...@ccnet.com
Remi Lenoir
> I wonder if I could jump in here with a similar problem. I have an
> A2386/20 with a Cyrix 486/40 upgrade, fitted in a 4000/030 with 2+12megs
> of ram. The bridgeboard is fitted with 8 megs of Zips; bank 1 with Toshiba
> TC514402-70's, banks 2 and 3 with Toshiba TC514400AZ-60's, and bank 4 with
> Goldstar GM71C4400AZ-70's. It will not boot correctly unless I set wait state
> to 1, and disable page mode. If I don't, the ram test stops at 03072K
> Extended, and I get the message
>
> Memory address line failure at 400404, read 4040 expecting BF20
>
> I've tried disabling the data caches, but to no avail. Could it be the
> upgrade, or are some of these zips not page mode?
Your Bank 1 is filled with Static Column chips whereas bank 2, 3 and 4 are
filled with Page Mode chips.
If part or all the chips are Static Column, you have to disable Page Mode on
the BB.
Enter the SETUP utility and:
1 - Set DRAM Wait State to 1
2 - Set Page Mode to DISABLED
3 - Exit with save (END key)
You should then have all your memory recognized and usable by the Bridgeboard and
you don't need to disable the data cache on the BB side.
> Also, does the bridgeboard use the Buster chip in any way?
Not more not less than any ZorroII board.
Regards,
Remi.