CDTV is dead.
Marc N Barrett
Commodore laid off all of their CDTV development people, including Gail
wellington and Ben Phister. Most (if not all) CDTV development has now been
effectively canceled.
Basically, this reaks of more Commodore short-sightedness. Commodore has
again canceled all development of an innovative idea, because one and only
one implementation of this idea did not sell massively well immediately. I am
certain that Commodore could have made money from the efforts of their CDTV
development people if they had simply shifted all CD-ROM multimedia development
to the Amiga, and made CD-XA-compatible CD-ROM drives, MPEG hardware, and
innovative CD-ROM software available for all Amigas. But no, Commodore just
went ahead and canceled everything. Since the people who were fired were also
the people at Commodore who were leading the charge at Commodore for more
Amiga CD-ROM support, there will likely never be any Amiga CD-ROM drives
forthcoming from Commodore. The rumored MPEG hardware will also likely never
be available for the CDTV or the Amiga.
Another very sad day.
---
| Marc Barrett -MB- | email: bar...@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
Philip McDunnough
> It is now totally official: CDTV is dead. On Monday, August 3, 1992,
>Commodore laid off all of their CDTV development people, including Gail
>wellington and Ben Phister. Most (if not all) CDTV development has now been
>effectively canceled.
Hmm...is this true? This would be really unfortunate, and would certainly
cause certain people to feel differently towards Commodore[ as well as
having the effect of several orders being cancelled.]
It would be nice to have someone other than Marc[ no offense meant] confirm
this.
[ ]
Philip McDunnough
phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
Colin Adams
>Commodore laid off all of their CDTV development people, including Gail
>wellington and Ben Phister. Most (if not all) CDTV development has now been
>effectively canceled.
C= is a joke. Why should anybody bother with this company?
>| Marc Barrett -MB- | email: bar...@iastate.edu
--
Colin Adams Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
"And if I seem a little strange, well that's because I am." - The Smiths
Ross E Milward
>In article <1992Aug6.1...@news.iastate.edu> bar...@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>>
>> It is now totally official: CDTV is dead. On Monday, August 3, 1992,
>>Commodore laid off all of their CDTV development people, including Gail
>>wellington and Ben Phister. Most (if not all) CDTV development has now been
>>effectively canceled.
>
>C= is a joke. Why should anybody bother with this company?
So just when we find out about supposed new releases coming in
September, we then find out that they do ridiculous things such as this.
What's with them?
It looks like the new hardware to be released/announced will be the
040 3000T and the 040 card which should have been out ages ago. Argh!
>>| Marc Barrett -MB- | email: bar...@iastate.edu
>
>--
>Colin Adams Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
> "And if I seem a little strange, well that's because I am." - The Smiths
--
Ross Milward, ro...@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au, cp...@marlin.jcu.edu.au
Honours Student - Comp. Sci. Dept., James Cook Uni, Qld, 4811, Australia.
"The way the rain comes down hard, that's how I feel inside." - The Cure
Philip McDunnough
[Quotes Marc Barrett re the effective demise of CDTV.]
>
>C= is a joke. Why should anybody bother with this company?
Look, this is getting out of hand. Will someone believable please
deny or confirm what Marc has written re CDTV? It would very much be
appreciated.
Philip McDunnough
University of Toronto
phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
Colin Adams
>It looks like the new hardware to be released/announced will be the
>040 3000T and the 040 card which should have been out ages ago. Argh!
If they release the 040 3000T with the ECS chipset for 6k, they deserve
to be lined up against the wall and shot.
>Ross Milward, ro...@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au, cp...@marlin.jcu.edu.au
Francis Wai Gee Lui
>Commodore laid off all of their CDTV development people, including Gail
>wellington and Ben Phister. Most (if not all) CDTV development has now been
>effectively canceled.
Commodore has got to be one of the most ruthless companies around! Their
employees work their butts off, only to be laid off after a few years of
excellent service. I hope they all got severance packages at least.
> Basically, this reaks of more Commodore short-sightedness. Commodore has
>again canceled all development of an innovative idea, because one and only
>one implementation of this idea did not sell massively well immediately. I am
>certain that Commodore could have made money from the efforts of their CDTV
>development people if they had simply shifted all CD-ROM multimedia development
>to the Amiga, and made CD-XA-compatible CD-ROM drives, MPEG hardware, and
>innovative CD-ROM software available for all Amigas. But no, Commodore just
>went ahead and canceled everything. Since the people who were fired were also
>the people at Commodore who were leading the charge at Commodore for more
>Amiga CD-ROM support, there will likely never be any Amiga CD-ROM drives
>forthcoming from Commodore. The rumored MPEG hardware will also likely never
>be available for the CDTV or the Amiga.
To be honest, I think consumer multimedia is many years away. There just is
no market for it! Do you see the average Mom and Dad buying a CD-I or CDTV
for their kids? Heck no! They get a COMPUTER or a game machine for the
Juniors!
I think Commodore's CD-ROM mistake was to squander money on pushing CD-ROMs
for the low end. With no CD-ROM support (from Commodore) in the high-end
A3000 series, Commodore jeopardized their plans for penetration into the
corporate training, information kiosk, business multimedia, etc. markets.
Besides, who would have the money to expend on pricey CD-ROM drives and
disks? The typical A500 user or the A3000 user???? Commodore needs some
lessons in Economics 102!
> Another very sad day.
Agreed. I guess I was naive to think the "Amiga is dead" newspaper articles
would prompt Commodore to invest more into R&D. Oh well, even though I love my
A3000 and I'll keep it for many years to come, my next computer will definitely
NOT be another Amiga. It'll be a 486 or NeXTstation. There is just NO
way that Commodore could develop an OOP O/S like NeXTstep, or at least
generate some major software vendor support like the NeXTstation has. You
know, I really thought the Amiga was going to catch on...
__ __
/ /\ /_/\__ Francis Lui
/_/ /\\ \ \/\ e-mail: fl...@sfu.ca
\ \ / \ \ /
\ \ \ \_\/ Friends don't let
\_\/ friends use MS-DOS.
Mark Ricci - CATS
>Commodore laid off all of their CDTV development people, including Gail
>wellington and Ben Phister. Most (if not all) CDTV development has now been
>effectively canceled.
Wrong, Marc, wrong. Gail was indeed laid off $*(, but Ben resigned a few weeks
ago. That's still a $*(, but he was not laid off. In fact, we're about to
have a "Good Luck Ben" cake in CATS for him.
> Basically, this reaks of more Commodore short-sightedness. Commodore has
>again canceled all development of an innovative idea, because one and only
>one implementation of this idea did not sell massively well immediately. I am
>certain that Commodore could have made money from the efforts of their CDTV
>development people if they had simply shifted all CD-ROM multimedia development
>to the Amiga, and made CD-XA-compatible CD-ROM drives, MPEG hardware, and
>innovative CD-ROM software available for all Amigas. But no, Commodore just
>went ahead and canceled everything. Since the people who were fired were also
>the people at Commodore who were leading the charge at Commodore for more
>Amiga CD-ROM support, there will likely never be any Amiga CD-ROM drives
>forthcoming from Commodore. The rumored MPEG hardware will also likely never
>be available for the CDTV or the Amiga.
There are others working on CDTV and others who are interested in seeing CD-ROM
for the Amiga. Gail and Ben were huge parts of CDTV and we will miss them,
though.
> Another very sad day.
For us, yes, because we've lost two good people.
Mark
John Campbell - CATS
Commodore has not cancelled all CDTV related development, nor is everyone
involved in projects relating to CDTV no longer with Commodore. It is true
that Gail Wellington and Ben Phister are no longer with Commodore. They will
be missed and it will be a loss to Commodore, and everyone at Commodore
wishes them the best. As an aside, Ben Phister resigned due to a desire to
move to France, his decision as I understand it was a personal one.
The fact is that a considerable amount of resource continues to be behind
the various technologies that we ALL know are important. Commodore listens
to its consumers and developers, and we will continue to do so.
Thanks for the bandwidth,
John Campbell
Director, Commodore Applications and Technical Support
Philip McDunnough
>bar...@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>>
>> It is now totally official: CDTV is dead. On Monday, August 3, 1992,
>>Commodore laid off all of their CDTV development people, including Gail
>>wellington and Ben Phister. Most (if not all) CDTV development has now been
>>effectively canceled.
>
>Wrong, Marc, wrong. Gail was indeed laid off $*(, but Ben resigned a few weeks
>ago. That's still a $*(, but he was not laid off. In fact, we're about to
>have a "Good Luck Ben" cake in CATS for him.
[More re continuing development of CDTV]
Thank's for the reassurance regarding CDTV. Quite appropriately, and
thoughtfully, this was also relayed to us by Commodore. I do apologize
for taking Mr. Barrett's note too seriously. Somehow he phrased it in
a way which made it sound "right".
I guess one should have known better, but it would be nice if Mr. Barrett
were to take a more responsible way of posting messages.
Skip Sauls
>>It looks like the new hardware to be released/announced will be the
>>040 3000T and the 040 card which should have been out ages ago. Argh!
>
>If they release the 040 3000T with the ECS chipset for 6k, they deserve
>to be lined up against the wall and shot.
I'm ready with a bullet in the form of cash that will buy a 486 system
instead of a 3x00 (whoops, are those still secret? :-)
>>Ross Milward, ro...@coral.cs.jcu.edu.au, cp...@marlin.jcu.edu.au
>Colin Adams Honours Student - James Cook University of North Queensland
> "And if I seem a little strange, well that's because I am." - The Smiths
___ __
Skip Sauls, TKKC Charter Member | |/ |/ /
sk...@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu | |\ |\ \__
Skip Sauls
>In article <1992Aug7.0...@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cp...@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>
>[Quotes Marc Barrett re the effective demise of CDTV.]
>>
>>C= is a joke. Why should anybody bother with this company?
>
>Look, this is getting out of hand. Will someone believable please
>deny or confirm what Marc has written re CDTV? It would very much be
>appreciated.
Everyone should try to look on the bright side. In a month or so Damark
will have CDTVs on sale for $199 and Amiga owners will finally be able to
get a real C= CDROM for a reasonable price. :-)
>Philip McDunnough
>University of Toronto
>phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
___ __
Temporary Account
going against Philips. Oh well once an idiot always an idiot. I guess C= has
been reading your postings and decided that you were right. Yea ...
Oh were did you hear that they canceled CDTV ? I heard that CDTV2 is in the
works ie. ECS WB2.04 and more. I guess the AA chipset will be in it. Some
reshifling does not mean we have closed the subject.
Enjoy the friends you make on .advocacy ;-)
George
Andy Finkel
>>
>> It is now totally official: CDTV is dead. On Monday, August 3, 1992,
>>Commodore laid off all of their CDTV development people, including Gail
>>wellington and Ben Phister. Most (if not all) CDTV development has now been
>>effectively canceled.
>
Interesting in that there's no news so bad that Marc can't make up stuff
so it sounds even worse. And as usual, he reports it as if he had an
inside track. He didn't even get the date right :-(
I wish he'd either return to school and graduate, grow up, or both.
andy
--
andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy
"A new release is where old bad assumptions are replaced by new
bad assumptions."
Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
Ralph Schmidt
>The fact is that a considerable amount of resource continues to be behind
>the various technologies that we ALL know are important. Commodore listens
*******
>to its consumers and developers, and we will continue to do so.
********* **********
It would be nice if you can give reasons for this thesis.I interprete
these 3 sentences as the normal statement to calm down the people.
Probably you listen, listen and listen but do you also react and
follow the wishes & suggestion of the developers and customers ?
There must be some reasons that so many customers and developer
can't agree with Commo's acting the last years and on the latest
developments. So if you think that Commo always listens and reacting
on customers why many guys switch to other systems, flame Commodore
or are only disappointing and waiting ? I guess there must be
reasons for it.......
Regards!
--
Ralph Schmidt la...@uni-paderborn.de
University of Paderborn (Germany)
sp...@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
> bar...@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>>
>> It is now totally official: CDTV is dead. On Monday, August 3, 1992,
>>Commodore laid off all of their CDTV development people, including Gail
>>wellington and Ben Phister. Most (if not all) CDTV development has now been
>>effectively canceled.
>
> Wrong, Marc, wrong. Gail was indeed laid off $*(, but Ben resigned a few weeks
> ago. That's still a $*(, but he was not laid off. In fact, we're about to
> have a "Good Luck Ben" cake in CATS for him.
If Ben had resigned "a few weeks ago" then why did I see posts from him
on the net as recently as a week ago or so? So Ben resigned for personal
reasons. Yeah right. Just like most of the Unix team "resigned" this time
last year.
> There are others working on CDTV and others who are interested in seeing CD-ROM
> for the Amiga.
Again, the same BS Commodore put out last year when they canned practically
the entire Unix development team. I guess Commodore's afraid that they'll
be stuck with thousands of unsellable CDTVs if they tell the truth just like
they were afraid of losing their Unix accounts. I would have figured that
Medhi Ali would have been smarter this time around and have a cover story
in place before the layoffs hit. Considering the amount of time its taken
for Commodore to reply to the "CDTV Is Dead" post its almost certainly
true. If it had been untrue Commodore would have replied immediately
instead of waiting until they could come up with a cover story.
Scott Corley
Gregory G Greene
>> Another very sad day.
> I thought you idiot that you said that CDTV will be a complete failure
>going against Philips. Oh well once an idiot always an idiot. I guess C= has
>been reading your postings and decided that you were right. Yea ...
>Oh were did you hear that they canceled CDTV ? I heard that CDTV2 is in the
>works ie. ECS WB2.04 and more. I guess the AA chipset will be in it. Some
>reshifling does not mean we have closed the subject.
> Enjoy the friends you make on .advocacy ;-)
> George
You can call him an idiot, but CDTV didn't exactly take the world by
storm either. Gee, another CDTV unit, I wonder how overpriced this one
will be? The prices around here for the original one are still $750.
G.Greene
Ralph Barbagallo
What the HELL! We NEED CDROM drives for the Amiga! Developers were actually
taking CDTV seriously for awhile there. There was some consideration for
making the new CD movies for CDTV as well as CD-I. Just another nail in the
coffin I guess. Isn't it nice to watch Commodore continually shoot themselves
in the foot? Why would anyone take the Amiga seriously for DTP if they didn't
have CDROMS to grab fonts etc., or for DTV for images etc. Of course, we have
CDROM FS etc ... but still, shouldn't COMMODORE be supporting some sort of
Amiga CD standard! (As well as a 24 bit standard.)
_____________________________________________________________________
( ( )
) Ralph A. Barbagallo III ) Co-Editor of (
( ----- ( M I N D S T O R M )
) nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us ) (
( ( THE Newsletter for high-end gamers! )
---------------------------------------------------------------------
MindStorm-9474 Fallson Ct., Blue Ash, OH 45242 (ed. Aaron Buckner)
Philip McDunnough
>In article <1992Aug7.0...@utstat.uucp> phi...@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug7.0...@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cp...@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>>
>>[Quotes Marc Barrett re the effective demise of CDTV.]
>>>
>>>C= is a joke. Why should anybody bother with this company?
>>
>>Look, this is getting out of hand. Will someone believable please
>>deny or confirm what Marc has written re CDTV? It would very much be
>>appreciated.
>
>Everyone should try to look on the bright side. In a month or so Damark
>will have CDTVs on sale for $199 and Amiga owners will finally be able to
>get a real C= CDROM for a reasonable price. :-)
Look, it's already been pointed out by Commodore here and to us that Marc
Barrett's message was offbase. I should have known better. I do apologize
for having taken his message too seriously. CDTV is alive, well and has a
great future. It's a product I care for very much. In the future it will be
very hard for me to take anything Marc B. says seriously.
Philip McDunnough
phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
Philip McDunnough
[Quotes totally unfounded, irresponsible statements from Marc Barrett re
CDTV's " demise"]
>
>If Ben had resigned "a few weeks ago" then why did I see posts from him
>on the net as recently as a week ago or so? So Ben resigned for personal
>reasons. Yeah right. Just like most of the Unix team "resigned" this time
>last year.
Marc Barrett was totally out to lunch on this one. Verging on deliberately
being irresponsible. Enough has been said to clarify the situation. In
particular the person you mention did resign to move to another country
( France as was earlier pointed out). CDTV is alive and well.
>
>> There are others working on CDTV and others who are interested in seeing CD-ROM
>> for the Amiga.
>
>
>Again, the same BS Commodore put out last year when they canned practically
>the entire Unix development team. I guess Commodore's afraid that they'll
>be stuck with thousands of unsellable CDTVs if they tell the truth just like
>they were afraid of losing their Unix accounts. I would have figured that
>Medhi Ali would have been smarter this time around and have a cover story
>in place before the layoffs hit. Considering the amount of time its taken
>for Commodore to reply to the "CDTV Is Dead" post its almost certainly
>true. If it had been untrue Commodore would have replied immediately
>instead of waiting until they could come up with a cover story.
No MB's message was simply nonsense. I personally will never believe anything
he says again. CDTV is doing fine. They need to get prices down, HD's,
etc...but I personally find it nice when a company goes out of its way to
reassure us both publicly and directly. I cannot tell the digust I have
for the type of campaign being waged by Marc Barrett and a few others.
Philip McDunnough
[ ]
>
> You can call him an idiot, but CDTV didn't exactly take the world by
> storm either. Gee, another CDTV unit, I wonder how overpriced this one
> will be? The prices around here for the original one are still $750.
He may not be an idiot but he is irresponsible and basically gives out
stories slanted to suit his interest. As I said in an earlier post I
wouldn't believe him if he proclaimed the earth round.
CDTV did well given the conditions. It is a longer term type of system.
And, by the way, CDTV sells for $700CDN which is around $600US here in
Toronto. Prices will drop.
Ethan Solomita
>
>Look, it's already been pointed out by Commodore here and to us that Marc
>Barrett's message was offbase. I should have known better. I do apologize
>for having taken his message too seriously. CDTV is alive, well and has a
>great future. It's a product I care for very much. In the future it will be
>very hard for me to take anything Marc B. says seriously.
>
however, is not irrelevant. After the Unix people were decimated,
we were told by Commodore people here on the net that Unix
development was not dead and that we shouldn't give up. There are
parallels here.
I do not know what has changed in terms of people who are
developing for CDTV, but Gail Wellington has been with Commodore
since LONG before the Amiga, and has always been an enormous
personality. She has moved from project to project over time, but
her layoff truly shocked me (and I'm truthfully not often shocked
by Commodore decisions).
Ben Phister, I believe, was mainly on the marketing end.
Although he resigned probably for other reasons as well, I doubt
that there is no connection between his decision and what
happened to Gail Wellington.
Basically, Commodore at this point needs to show that
they are going to improve upon CDTV significantly. It hasn't
really changed since it came out. It doesn't have decompression
or PhotoCD yet, as was promised. We'll have to see if those come
out, as promised. Also, we'll have to see what happens to improve
the graphics.
But most importantly -- we still haven't seen the A500
version, despite the fact that it was shown back when CDTV was
first RELEASED. That makes me question committment, financial and
otherwise, very seriously.
Especially since the A500/CDTV connection is what was,
IMNSHO, going to make CDTV a success. You see, CD-I has no user
base, and limited software. Chicken-and-the-egg scenario that has
held the Amiga back since it came out. However, with the A690,
there was going to be CDTV available to the millions of A500
owners out there. That would create a market almost immediately,
as even if only 1% bought the adapter, that would be 30,000
purchasers.
Just as CD-I failed, so will CDTV I believe unless the
A500 adapter comes out. So we'll have to see. My fear is that
development of new CDTV stuff is almost dead -- it was the two
heads of the marketing side of CDTV that disappeared. But I'd be
delighted to change my mind when the A690 with better display
chips arrives.
-- Ethan
purgamentum init, exit purgamentum
Marc N Barrett
>Barrett's message was offbase. I should have known better. I do apologize
>for having taken his message too seriously. CDTV is alive, well and has a
>great future. It's a product I care for very much. In the future it will be
>very hard for me to take anything Marc B. says seriously.
You are being far too gullible. The Commodore reps did not say that CDTV
is not dead. In fact, they CONFIRMED that Gail Wellington has indeed been
laid off, and that Ben Phister has 'resigned'. Even if Ben Phister's
resignation was a personal one, the reality is that the leading person behind
the development of the CDTV really has been fired.
They said: "Commodore has not cancelled all CDTV related development..."
^^^^^^^
Notice the extreme ambiguity with respect to the status of the CDTV itself.
Nobody from Commodore, not even Andy Finkle (who LOVES to flame me) has come
out and said that all of my facts are wrong and that there is no truth to
anything I said. They just said that my details are wrong, which is something
that I will grant. But the reality is that the status of the CDTV is very
doubtful.
>Philip McDunnough
>phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
Jeff Young
Rumors started months ago about Commodore throwing CDTV overboard!!
WHY Mike Farren DISAPPEAR so soon after he appear at Commordore?!?
WHERE Jeff Porter to answer to people?? If crew have crazy captains
we have right to MUTINY!
IF Mehdi can CAN Wellington before CDTV 2 project finished C= sure
to wind up at Waterloo.
Michael van Elst
> Nobody from Commodore, not even Andy Finkle (who LOVES to flame me) has come
>out and said that all of my facts are wrong and that there is no truth to
>anything I said. They just said that my details are wrong, which is something
>that I will grant. But the reality is that the status of the CDTV is very
>doubtful.
Hey, Marc... still abandoning the reality ? There is only _one_ thing that
you don't find doubtful and please don't repeat it again.
Regards,
--
Michael van Elst
UUCP: universe!local-cluster!milky-way!sol!earth!uunet!unido!mpirbn!p554mve
Internet: p55...@mpirbn.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de
"A potential Snark may lurk in every tree."
Michael Sinz
bar...@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>In article <1992Aug8.0...@utstat.uucp> phi...@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>>Look, it's already been pointed out by Commodore here and to us that Marc
>>Barrett's message was offbase. I should have known better. I do apologize
>>for having taken his message too seriously. CDTV is alive, well and has a
>>great future. It's a product I care for very much. In the future it will be
>>very hard for me to take anything Marc B. says seriously.
>
> You are being far too gullible. The Commodore reps did not say that CDTV
>is not dead. In fact, they CONFIRMED that Gail Wellington has indeed been
>laid off, and that Ben Phister has 'resigned'. Even if Ben Phister's
>resignation was a personal one, the reality is that the leading person behind
>the development of the CDTV really has been fired.
Ben had resigned before anyone (other than maybe some very top management)
knew about Gail. He had been offered a job in Paris (where he lived before
coming to Commodore) and he and his family wanted to go back there.
As far as the people that are involved in CDTV - Gail was a very strong force.
She was also a strong force in the Amiga and the C64. I am very sad to see
her go, but such things happen. :-(
The actual engineers involved are still here. In fact, there is still effort
being put into CDTV work.
> They said: "Commodore has not cancelled all CDTV related development..."
> ^^^^^^^
>
> Notice the extreme ambiguity with respect to the status of the CDTV itself.
>
> Nobody from Commodore, not even Andy Finkle (who LOVES to flame me) has come
>out and said that all of my facts are wrong and that there is no truth to
>anything I said. They just said that my details are wrong, which is something
>that I will grant. But the reality is that the status of the CDTV is very
>doubtful.
Well, maybe Andy was not as silly as I was in doing a followup to one of your
postings. I know that I should have known better...
>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB- | email: bar...@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------
/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
| /// Michael Sinz - Senior Amiga Systems Engineer |
| /// Operating System Development Group |
| /// BIX: msinz UUNET: m...@cbmvax.commodore.com |
|\\\/// |
| \XX/ HELP! I am starting to like it here... |
\----------------------------------------------------------------------/
Gregory G Greene
>> storm either. Gee, another CDTV unit, I wonder how overpriced this one
>> will be? The prices around here for the original one are still $750.
>
>He may not be an idiot but he is irresponsible and basically gives out
>stories slanted to suit his interest. As I said in an earlier post I
>wouldn't believe him if he proclaimed the earth round.
>
>CDTV did well given the conditions. It is a longer term type of system.
>And, by the way, CDTV sells for $700CDN which is around $600US here in
>Toronto. Prices will drop.
>
>Philip McDunnough
>University of Toronto
>phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
You've been saying prices will drop forever. This was suppose to be
a mass market type of device. I can remember everybody calling the CDTV
Commodore's new cash cow when it was first released. Well, I think the
cow has been slaughtered. I think Commodore needs some incentive to lower
its prices. I hope when the SNES and Genesis systems come out with their
own CD units, that CBM see's the light. But then again these systems will
probably sell for half the price of a CDTV. Can CBM drop the price that
much?
G.Greene
Ethan Solomita
>In article <1992Aug8.0...@utstat.uucp> phi...@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>>
>>Look, it's already been pointed out by Commodore here and to us that Marc
>>Barrett's message was offbase. I should have known better. I do apologize
>>for having taken his message too seriously. CDTV is alive, well and has a
>>great future. It's a product I care for very much. In the future it will be
>>very hard for me to take anything Marc B. says seriously.
>>
> Marc Barrett's analogy between the Unix and CDTV,
>however, is not irrelevant. After the Unix people were decimated,
>we were told by Commodore people here on the net that Unix
>development was not dead and that we shouldn't give up. There are
>parallels here.
>
post, not Marc's. Oh well, I guess Marc really had no points this
time. Bad, bad move for Marc.
Ethan Solomita
> Nobody from Commodore, not even Andy Finkle (who LOVES to flame me) has come
>out and said that all of my facts are wrong and that there is no truth to
>anything I said. They just said that my details are wrong, which is something
>that I will grant. But the reality is that the status of the CDTV is very
>doubtful.
>
Marc, jeesh, don't try to defend it! If you state
something as a fact (as you did for that whole article), then it
should be true, or at least pretty damn certain, especially when
the subject is THAT sensitive. The fact that some of your facts
were true doesn't defend the wrong facts.
One thing you said was that the rest of the CDTV
development team was also laid off. That's the part that seems
significant. Is there ANY truth to that? Was anyone else laid off?
John Ata FSO
So now you are claiming that Commodore Engineering and CATS are
liars. When will this frenzy stop!
--
John G. Ata - Technical Consultant | Internet: hfsi!a...@UUNET.UU.NET
HFS, Inc. VA20 | UUCP: uunet.uu.net!hfsi!ata
7900 Westpark Drive MS:601 | Voice: (703) 827-6810
McLean, VA 22102 | FAX: (703) 827-3729
John Ata FSO
And let's not forget the logical inconsistency here. On one hand, the
poster says CDTV will never sell and never has a chance. On the other
hand, WHEN IT SUITS HIS PURPOSE, he bemoans the apparent loss of CDTV as
a death blow to Commodore. If he was sincere in the original post, then
I would have expected him to be praising Commodore for coming to their
senses and dropping CDTV. Without further fanfare, I must say that for
the first time my killfile actually has an entry :(
David Braun
S> Medhi Ali would have been smarter this time around and have a cover
story
S> in place before the layoffs hit. Considering the amount of time its
S> taken for Commodore to reply to the "CDTV Is Dead" post its almost
S> certainly true. If it had been untrue Commodore would have replied
S> immediatelyinstead of waiting until they could come up with a cover
story.
How do you figure it took 'a long time' for Commodore to respond? I saw
MB's typical gloom-and-doom posting yesterday evening when I read the mail
and CBM's rebuttal this evening. I don't consider a one day to be an
outrageously long time to respond. It could be that the CBM techs don't
live on the net or log in every few minutes to see who is badmouthing their
products THIS hour. Some people have to work for a living and don't have
time to monitor this net every hour of the day.
S> Scott Corley
S> sp...@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
-- Via DLG Pro v0.992
// - I thought I was wrong once but I could be mistaken -
\X/ db - david...@panam.wimsey.bc.ca (UseNet)
LINDSEY
resignation several weeks prior to actually leaving? I guess not!
You must throw your resignation on your employers desk on your way out
the door, eah?
coy
Philip McDunnough
>>
>>Look, it's already been pointed out by Commodore here and to us that Marc
>>Barrett's message was offbase. I should have known better. I do apologize
>>for having taken his message too seriously. CDTV is alive, well and has a
>>great future. It's a product I care for very much. In the future it will be
>>very hard for me to take anything Marc B. says seriously.
>>
> Marc Barrett's analogy between the Unix and CDTV,
>however, is not irrelevant. After the Unix people were decimated,
>we were told by Commodore people here on the net that Unix
>development was not dead and that we shouldn't give up. There are
>parallels here.
Look, I said that the situation had been explained to us directly and of
course there were the messages on the net. Barrett was totally offbase.
No analogy at all between the Unix situation and this. No parallels.
You can either believe Marc Barrett or me, and I know who I'd rather believe.
There will be new CDTV models, etc...
>
> I do not know what has changed in terms of people who are
>developing for CDTV, but Gail Wellington has been with Commodore
>since LONG before the Amiga, and has always been an enormous
>personality. She has moved from project to project over time, but
>her layoff truly shocked me (and I'm truthfully not often shocked
>by Commodore decisions).
We are mainly talking CDTV.
>
> Ben Phister, I believe, was mainly on the marketing end.
>Although he resigned probably for other reasons as well, I doubt
>that there is no connection between his decision and what
>happened to Gail Wellington.
Ben Phister was not mainly on the marketing end. Where the heck are you
getting your information, or are you just speculating? I think it's time
people start being a bit more careful when referring to specific
individuals.
>
> Basically, Commodore at this point needs to show that
>they are going to improve upon CDTV significantly. It hasn't
>really changed since it came out. It doesn't have decompression
>or PhotoCD yet, as was promised. We'll have to see if those come
>out, as promised. Also, we'll have to see what happens to improve
>the graphics.
The MPEG chips are not ready. Philips doesn't have them either. NeXT never
put them into the ND, etc...Be patient. PhotoCD is an emerging thing.
Geez, do you want all things before they are even accessible? Try naming
a few PhotoCD players that are shipping? And don't give me the Photo-CD
ready nonsense.
>
> But most importantly -- we still haven't seen the A500
>version, despite the fact that it was shown back when CDTV was
>first RELEASED. That makes me question committment, financial and
>otherwise, very seriously.
Have you not been reading. There is now an A600. C= is developing CDTV
compatible readers for their Amiga's. There will be one for both the A500
and the A600. There's really no rush. It's not as though CD technology is
thriving elsewhere.
>
> Especially since the A500/CDTV connection is what was,
>IMNSHO, going to make CDTV a success. You see, CD-I has no user
>base, and limited software. Chicken-and-the-egg scenario that has
>held the Amiga back since it came out. However, with the A690,
>there was going to be CDTV available to the millions of A500
>owners out there. That would create a market almost immediately,
>as even if only 1% bought the adapter, that would be 30,000
>purchasers.
Why would an A500 owner buy an expensive peripheral when there was no
software? It was more imporant to first build up a software base. That is
almost in place. It makes sense to come out with CD-ROM CDTV compatible
readers soon for both the 500 and the 600.
Both CDTV and CD-I will succeed. CD-I will make it on the the SNES connection.
>
> Just as CD-I failed, so will CDTV I believe unless the
>A500 adapter comes out. So we'll have to see. My fear is that
>development of new CDTV stuff is almost dead -- it was the two
>heads of the marketing side of CDTV that disappeared. But I'd be
>delighted to change my mind when the A690 with better display
>chips arrives.
You are talking through your hat. CD-I did not fail. The A500 drive will
come out, as well as one for other Amiga's. Development of new CDTV stuff
is not almost dead. I have a full page of titles sitting in front of me.
The only thing that is needed at this point is for people who don't know
what they are talking about to not make outragous statements and to be patient.
Philip McDunnough
phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
fhei...@desire.wright.edu
> In article <1992Aug7.1...@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> sp...@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
>
> [Quotes totally unfounded, irresponsible statements from Marc Barrett re
> CDTV's " demise"]
>
>>the entire Unix development team. I guess Commodore's afraid that they'll
Once the Unix is ported, do you need to have as many programmers
around to upgrade and maintain it? I would think not. Anybody
familiar enough with porting Unix care to comment?
>>be stuck with thousands of unsellable CDTVs if they tell the truth just like
>>they were afraid of losing their Unix accounts.
Fred Heitkamp ** My opinions only ***
Philip McDunnough
>In article <1992Aug8.0...@utstat.uucp> phi...@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>>Look, it's already been pointed out by Commodore here and to us that Marc
>>Barrett's message was offbase. I should have known better. I do apologize
>>for having taken his message too seriously. CDTV is alive, well and has a
>>great future. It's a product I care for very much. In the future it will be
>>very hard for me to take anything Marc B. says seriously.
>
> You are being far too gullible. The Commodore reps did not say that CDTV
>is not dead. In fact, they CONFIRMED that Gail Wellington has indeed been
>laid off, and that Ben Phister has 'resigned'. Even if Ben Phister's
>resignation was a personal one, the reality is that the leading person behind
>the development of the CDTV really has been fired.
You have no idea whatsoever regarding Ben Phister. I do. Commodore has
clarified their intentions to us, as I indicated. This was a direct
communication. In fact, I was gullible but it was simply in taking your
note too seriously. You haven't got a clue about what is going on and
as such you should really, to be blunt, shut up.
>
> They said: "Commodore has not cancelled all CDTV related development..."
There were several messages. I don't care what you want to read into one
of the ones posted here. I'd rather accept personal clarifications than
your interpretations of wording, always taken in a negative way.
>
> Notice the extreme ambiguity with respect to the status of the CDTV itself.
Oh come on...There are going to be new CDTV units and CDTV compatible
readers for Amiga's. No wonder C= doesn't provide us with the details on
the net, with people like yourself running around. My suggestion to you
is to concentrate on your academic work and graduate.
>
> Nobody from Commodore, not even Andy Finkle (who LOVES to flame me) has come
>out and said that all of my facts are wrong and that there is no truth to
>anything I said. They just said that my details are wrong, which is something
>that I will grant. But the reality is that the status of the CDTV is very
>doubtful.
It is not. Until you get your facts right on this and other matters I do
think you should be a bit more invisible. You're not an idiot, so I'll
just assume you enjoy creating confusion.
>
>| Marc Barrett -MB- | email: bar...@iastate.edu
Philip McDunnough
University of Toronto
Professor of Statistics
phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
Harv R Laser
> How do you figure it took 'a long time' for Commodore to respond? I saw
>MB's typical gloom-and-doom posting yesterday evening when I read the mail
>and CBM's rebuttal this evening. I don't consider a one day to be an
>outrageously long time to respond. It could be that the CBM techs don't
>live on the net or log in every few minutes to see who is badmouthing their
>products THIS hour. Some people have to work for a living and don't have
>time to monitor this net every hour of the day.
>
>
> S> Scott Corley
>
> S> sp...@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu
It could also be (although yours is a good hypothesis too) that certain
topics and replies have be run thru the CBM Legal Beagles before they can
be posted. This too would induce a day or two delay.
Harv
Kevin Darling
>
>I know this is a mistake... I mean, I am following up to a Marc posting...!
Here's a radical idea: how about keeping everyone informed whenever
something like this (major people getting laid off or moved about)
happens? Especially if it's likely it'll be found out anyway.
Consider it as part of Commodore's Robinson-response promise to keep
people up to date, versus only reacting when required.
Otherwise people will continue to get their first spin on things from MB.
Just a thought.
cheers - kevin <kdar...@catt.ncsu.edu>
Ethan Solomita
>In article <1992Aug8.0...@ctr.columbia.edu> e...@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes:
>> Marc Barrett's analogy between the Unix and CDTV,
>>however, is not irrelevant. After the Unix people were decimated,
>>we were told by Commodore people here on the net that Unix
>>development was not dead and that we shouldn't give up. There are
>>parallels here.
>
>Look, I said that the situation had been explained to us directly and of
>course there were the messages on the net. Barrett was totally offbase.
>No analogy at all between the Unix situation and this. No parallels.
>You can either believe Marc Barrett or me, and I know who I'd rather believe.
>There will be new CDTV models, etc...
Why should I stick to one extreme or the other? Marc
Barrett always assumes the worst, and will tilt facts (and in
this case make them up) to make his point. In this case, I think
your trust level in Commodore may be too strong. I take neither
position -- I remain skeptical. Since we are not told of what
goes on within Commodore development, I have no way of knowing
what is actually happening.
I do not believe that CDTV is dead or completely
cancelled, I simply don't believe that R&D is going full-throttle
either.
>> Ben Phister, I believe, was mainly on the marketing end.
>>Although he resigned probably for other reasons as well, I doubt
>>that there is no connection between his decision and what
>>happened to Gail Wellington.
>
>Ben Phister was not mainly on the marketing end. Where the heck are you
>getting your information, or are you just speculating? I think it's time
>people start being a bit more careful when referring to specific
>individuals.
Because when I talked to him, that's what his role was.
At one time, we were waiting on a CDTV title to appear, and then
he was going to arrange a demo for a group on campus. I take that
as marketing. That might not have been his primary role, true.
However his relation with me WAS marketing.
>The MPEG chips are not ready. Philips doesn't have them either. NeXT never
>put them into the ND, etc...Be patient. PhotoCD is an emerging thing.
>Geez, do you want all things before they are even accessible? Try naming
>a few PhotoCD players that are shipping? And don't give me the Photo-CD
>ready nonsense.
I wasn't blaming Commodore for not having shipped them
yet, as they obviously haven't been made yet. Please don't read
into my comments like they were coming from MB.
>>
>> But most importantly -- we still haven't seen the A500
>>version, despite the fact that it was shown back when CDTV was
>>first RELEASED. That makes me question committment, financial and
>>otherwise, very seriously.
>
>Have you not been reading. There is now an A600. C= is developing CDTV
>compatible readers for their Amiga's. There will be one for both the A500
>and the A600. There's really no rush. It's not as though CD technology is
>thriving elsewhere.
Now I KNOW you are the antithesis of Marc. I have been
reading. Yes, there is an A600. So what is your point? Now they
should come out with the addon for both machines. They've been
developing CDTV readers for the Amigas for a LONG time now. And
there is enormous rush, because developers will abandon CDTV if
their products don't sell. And they can't sell on appr. 20,000
CDTV units. Besides, when better to succeed than when everyone
else is failing?
>Why would an A500 owner buy an expensive peripheral when there was no
>software? It was more imporant to first build up a software base. That is
>almost in place. It makes sense to come out with CD-ROM CDTV compatible
>readers soon for both the 500 and the 600.
>
There IS software, just not a lot. There was software
last Christmas too. If they had had the CDTV for Amigas out then,
not only would they have sold more units, but the CDTV developers
would have also sold more units, and would have more money to
develop for new products. I guarantee you that smaller developers
won't wait for 2 years before they start to sell.
BTW, I'm also sure that Commodore knows that they need to
get the Amiga-based CDTV units out ASAP. I just hope that upper
management is giving it sufficient priority. That is something of
which I'm never certain.
Tom R Krotchko
Maybe, but it fast disappearing.
Phillips cancelled at the last minute to show their stuff at FOSE,
and Sears in the DC area yanked the CD-I units from the display.
I haven't checked Monkey Wards, but Video Concepts still sells them
along with an Amiga 500.
No, CD-I is not dead, but Phillips is certainly marketing it like
C....
no, I won't say it.
Mike Schwartz
> In article <1992Aug8.0...@utstat.uucp>, phi...@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
> > In article <1992Aug7.1...@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu> sp...@drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu writes:
> >
> > [Quotes totally unfounded, irresponsible statements from Marc Barrett re
> > CDTV's " demise"]
> >
> >>Again, the same BS Commodore put out last year when they canned practically
> >>the entire Unix development team. I guess Commodore's afraid that they'll
>
> Once the Unix is ported, do you need to have as many programmers
> around to upgrade and maintain it? I would think not. Anybody
> familiar enough with porting Unix care to comment?
>
Anyone care to comment whether Amiga's Unix runs on an 040 equipped machine?
And if not, why not?
> >>be stuck with thousands of unsellable CDTVs if they tell the truth just like
> >>they were afraid of losing their Unix accounts.
> Fred Heitkamp ** My opinions only ***
--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or my...@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024
Kevin Darling
> e...@cunixb.cc.columbia.eda (Ethan Solomita) writes:
>> Basically, Commodore at this point needs to show that they are
>> going to improve upon CDTV significantly. It hasn't really changed
>> since it came out. It doesn't have decompression or PhotoCD yet, as
>> was promised. We'll have to see if those come out, as promised. Also,
>> we'll have to see what happens to improve the graphics.
>
Right, not in their consumer players yet, but...
C-Cube has been taking factory orders for their MPEG chip (CL450) since
mid-June, including the custom version (CL450i) which Philips is using
in their (_VIDEO_ mag says $200) FMV card due out later this year. Some
CD-I developers have been working on FMV apps since at least last Fall.
OTOH, it is probable that current CDTV models cannot be expanded with MPEG.
But then, I don't believe Commodore has ever promised that they could be.
> [...] PhotoCD is an emerging thing. Geez, do you want all things before
> they are even accessible? Try naming a few PhotoCD players that are
> shipping? And don't give me the Photo-CD ready nonsense.
Well, CD-I players (which are also Photo CD players by definition, since
all Photo CDs include CD-I player code) have been shipping for a long time.
But if you mean the Kodak Photo CD players, they're also being shipped now.
The first two Kodak player models are the PCD 270 and PCD 870; later the
PCD 5870 5-disc model will come out. Developing is now available (or will
be next week) at over 1,000 places in the US. There's a 50K list of those
places in the PHOTOFORUM on CompuServe, if you wish to download it.
Personal computer Photo CD access software is also now available for Windows
and the MacOS, with Quicktime support due later this year.
As of last month, a Kodak rep said that Commodore didn't yet have a Photo CD
license for CDTV. This doesn't mean that access software couldn't be written
for Amigas/CDTVs, but that CDTVs can't wear a "Photo CD" label. One obvious
glitch is that a new CDTV drive would be needed with multisession capability.
(Aha! Perhaps that's what the Amiga addon CD-ROM drive delay is all about?)
We now return you to a (hopefully) better informed debate :-)
regards - kevin <kdar...@catt.ncsu.edu> <76703...@compuserve.com>
Scott Boutwell
>Barrett's message was offbase. I should have known better. I do apologize
>for having taken his message too seriously. CDTV is alive, well and has a
>great future. It's a product I care for very much. In the future it will be
>very hard for me to take anything Marc B. says seriously.
>
>Philip McDunnough
>phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
Where? Did I miss something here? Has commodore stated that this is or is
not true? I mean everything that the do is shrowded with secrecy so that
other companies will not get a jump on them. But a respone as to where or not
they are killing off a Machine or not should not be such major statement for
them. It would be for merchants that get stuck with the units though. I
would like to see the response from Commodore on this one though. Either
confirmed or denied.
--
Scott Boutwell -+- [Sbou...@sandbox.kenn.wa.us]
*-------------------*-------------------------------------------------*
| The Tri-Cities | Sandbox (509)735-1640 Public Access HP-Ux |
Philip McDunnough
[ ]
>>
>> The MPEG chips are not ready. Philips doesn't have them either. [...]
>
>Right, not in their consumer players yet, but...
>
>C-Cube has been taking factory orders for their MPEG chip (CL450) since
>mid-June, including the custom version (CL450i) which Philips is using
>in their (_VIDEO_ mag says $200) FMV card due out later this year. Some
>CD-I developers have been working on FMV apps since at least last Fall.
So,...I can't even buy a CD-I unit. C-Cube has fouled up before with NeXT.
I'll wait until I see these things for sale before cheering.
>
>OTOH, it is probable that current CDTV models cannot be expanded with MPEG.
>But then, I don't believe Commodore has ever promised that they could be.
Why do you say that? That is not what we've been told all along. MPEG will be
in CDTV. Now whether or not it needs to be upgraded is another story. I
would be very annoyed if the current one can't support it. C= has a very
good policy re upgrades. I'm not so sure about Philips. The only model I
saw up here will never be sold as it doesn't, and can't, support MPEG.
>
>> [...] PhotoCD is an emerging thing. Geez, do you want all things before
>> they are even accessible? Try naming a few PhotoCD players that are
>> shipping? And don't give me the Photo-CD ready nonsense.
>
>Well, CD-I players (which are also Photo CD players by definition, since
>all Photo CDs include CD-I player code) have been shipping for a long time.
I wasn't thinking of CD-I players, but do all of them have multi-session
capability? I doubt it.
>
>But if you mean the Kodak Photo CD players, they're also being shipped now.
>The first two Kodak player models are the PCD 270 and PCD 870; later the
>PCD 5870 5-disc model will come out. Developing is now available (or will
>be next week) at over 1,000 places in the US. There's a 50K list of those
>places in the PHOTOFORUM on CompuServe, if you wish to download it.
Yes we can get them here too. Also developement is available at 3 times the
price of normal development- too expensive, and people won't go for it until
the price drops.
In any case I was thinking of the readers associated with computers, as that
was the context the discussion was taking place in. People were making it
sound as though the PC, Mac and every clone maker were delivering PhotoCD
readers, even though few deliver ones that can cope with XA, and worse yet,
few CD-ROM's exist for that standard. The point is there's no rush.
Roughly 10 people know about the Kodak players up here, and they are too
expensive.
>
>Personal computer Photo CD access software is also now available for Windows
>and the MacOS, with Quicktime support due later this year.
Oh please. The QuickTime agreement was only just signed. PhotoCD readers
don't exist for the PC/Mac. You are talking futures again Kevin. Why don't
we talk about now, or at least in the near future at reasonable prices.
>
>As of last month, a Kodak rep said that Commodore didn't yet have a Photo CD
>license for CDTV. This doesn't mean that access software couldn't be written
>for Amigas/CDTVs, but that CDTVs can't wear a "Photo CD" label. One obvious
>glitch is that a new CDTV drive would be needed with multisession capability.
>(Aha! Perhaps that's what the Amiga addon CD-ROM drive delay is all about?)
There's no rush for PhotoCD support. It's not widespread enough. When it is
then CDTV will support it. C= has said so in public.
My opinion is that nothing expensive will sell anymore. This is one reason why
I think it will be the SNES which gets CD-I and Kodak PhotoCD capability
into homes.
CDTV will then ride the wave, assuming prices come down. I still feel that
CDTV has a distinct advantage over CD-I, given its connection to the Amiga.
>
>We now return you to a (hopefully) better informed debate :-)
Which one is that!
Philip
Fabbian G. Dufoe, III
>In article <1992Aug7.1...@ra.msstate.edu> sk...@tacky.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug7.0...@utstat.uucp> phi...@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>>>In article <1992Aug7.0...@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cp...@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>>>
>>>[Quotes Marc Barrett re the effective demise of CDTV.]
>>>>
>>>>C= is a joke. Why should anybody bother with this company?
>>>
>>>Look, this is getting out of hand. Will someone believable please
>>>deny or confirm what Marc has written re CDTV? It would very much be
>>>appreciated.
>>
>>Everyone should try to look on the bright side. In a month or so Damark
>>will have CDTVs on sale for $199 and Amiga owners will finally be able to
>>get a real C= CDROM for a reasonable price. :-)
>
>Look, it's already been pointed out by Commodore here and to us that Marc
>Barrett's message was offbase. I should have known better. I do apologize
>for having taken his message too seriously. CDTV is alive, well and has a
>great future. It's a product I care for very much. In the future it will be
>very hard for me to take anything Marc B. says seriously.
Shucks! I was really looking forward to getting a CD-ROM drive for $199.
You mean Damark won't have them in their next catalog? :)
--Fabbian G. Dufoe, III
350 Ling-A-Mor Terrace South | GEnie: F.DUFOE3
St. Petersburg, Florida 33705 | internet: fgd3%ni...@tct.com
813-823-2350 | uucp: ...tct!deep6!nifty!fgd3
Kevin Darling
>kdar...@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
>>OTOH, it is probable that current CDTV models cannot be expanded with MPEG.
>>But then, I don't believe Commodore has ever promised that they could be.
>
> Why do you say that? That is not what we've been told all along. MPEG will
> be in CDTV. Now whether or not it needs to be upgraded is another story. I
> would be very annoyed if the current one can't support it. C= has a very
> good policy re upgrades.
Depends on your idea of what constitutes an "upgrade". A new motherboard?
Yah, I've previously said that Commodore is good about trade-ins. But at
what cost? Philips will be almost giving away their plug-in card at $200.
Show me one official statement from Commodore saying that the current CDTV
model can be easily and cheaply fitted with MPEG. And I don't mean more
junk from kiddie BBSs or silly Amiga rumor columns either (like all that
wasted talk about a DCTV addon card).
> I'm not so sure about Philips. The only model I saw up here will never
> be sold as it doesn't, and can't, support MPEG.
C'mon. You know as well as I do that what you saw wasn't a consumer player,
but an industrial model built long before even CDTV came out, much less MPEG.
> I wasn't thinking of CD-I players, but do all of them have multi-session
> capability? I doubt it.
Yes, according to Kodak, all consumer (and current industrial) CD-I units do.
> Oh please. The QuickTime agreement was only just signed. PhotoCD readers
> don't exist for the PC/Mac. You are talking futures again Kevin. Why don't
> we talk about now, or at least in the near future at reasonable prices.
We are. This is quoted from a Kodak posting on CompuServe on 1 August:
"You can purchase Photo CD Access Software for $39.95. This software
is available for Mac and DOS/Windows. Call 800-242-2424, extension 53."
Altho I've just read that their Mac software has been delayed a few weeks.
On the other hand, there are other companies currently offering Photo CD
access software. For example, here's a recent posting:
" If you have access to a 386 pc, Virtual BookMaker will let you read
and convert a Photo CD disk. $25.00, postpaid, from Randall Kopchak,
2233 Keeven Lane, Florissant, MO 63031.
" The picture quality is unreal and you can access anywhere from mono to
16 and 256 color, and 16 million color. We've been very impressed with the
Kodak system and the fact that the scans exceed the capabilities of all
but the most exotic systems."
I'm not even trying to keep track of all the Mac/PC companies which already
have, or have announced, Photo CD file support. You probably won't find
this kind of info if you only read Usenet, btw. That's why I try to keep
people here updated on what's happening in the real world :-)
best - kevin <kdar...@catt.ncsu.edu>
Mark Newton
>>and CBM's rebuttal this evening. I don't consider a one day to be an
>>outrageously long time to respond. It could be that the CBM techs don't
>>live on the net or log in every few minutes to see who is badmouthing their
>>products THIS hour. Some people have to work for a living and don't have
>>time to monitor this net every hour of the day.
>>
>> S> Scott Corley
>
>topics and replies have be run thru the CBM Legal Beagles before they can
>be posted. This too would induce a day or two delay.
Or longer. Remember, they'd have to keep training the lawyers so that
they'd know the meanings of words like "computer".
- mark :-)
--
------------------------------------------------------------------
'Do not expose your LaserWriter to naked flame...'
new...@cs.flinders.edu.au - Apple LaserWriter Manual
------------------------------------------------------------------
Jesper Kehlet
>
> One thing you said was that the rest of the CDTV
> development team was also laid off. That's the part that seems
> significant. Is there ANY truth to that? Was anyone else laid off?
To my knowledge, only Gail Wellington was laid off. And that was for
entirely different reasons -- I believe she is now back with the florist
business she had before managing CATS and is, again to my knowledge, quite
content with that!
Her departure has NOTHING to do with the CDTV development stopping -- in
fact, CDTV development has stopped FOR NOW. The CDTV is good as it is, and
when there's a need for developing further on it, it will be developed
further...
For now, all there is to it, is further PRODUCTION of CDTV's -- the
development is now concentrated on accessories of all kinds...
Ben Phister has had a desire for living in France, so he left for Paris
friday the 7th, as far as I know. He got tired and fed up with the United
States and wanted to live in France -- he is from San Francisco, (again) as
far as I know.
I may not have remember it all correctly, maybe John Orr, Carolyn or
someone at CATS can fill in the details, but it should be about that.
The bottom line is: the CDTV is *NOT* dead and the crew is *NOT* laid off.
Marc's 'facts' were mostly wrong and again, he has proven very little
insight in what's really going on.
Just because Marc Barrett is a certified developer, doesn't mean he is in
the know about Commodore, CATS and C= engineering.
There's a good reason to be critical with his remarks, when he bursts...
> -- Ethan
--
Jesper Kehlet, Compos Mentis Software Systems -- A Kind Of Magic
(uunet|pyramid|rutgers)!cbmvax!cbmehq!cbmden!kehlet!kehlet
cbmehq!cbmden!kehlet!keh...@cbmvax.commodore.com
Since I am the president of this company, I speak not only for myself!
Andy Finkel
>I know this is a mistake... I mean, I am following up to a Marc posting...!
>
>> Nobody from Commodore, not even Andy Finkle (who LOVES to flame me) has come
>>out and said that all of my facts are wrong and that there is no truth to
>>anything I said. They just said that my details are wrong, which is something
>>that I will grant. But the reality is that the status of the CDTV is very
>>doubtful.
>
>Well, maybe Andy was not as silly as I was in doing a followup to one of your
>postings. I know that I should have known better...
Marc is in my kill file in this newsgroup. So I only see his postings
when someone responds to one of them. This saves me from even thinking
about answering the ones that no one believes enough to respond to in any way.
For the record, I don't love to flame Marc. In fact, nothing would please
me more if I never again felt the need to respond to a Barrett post.
As I've posted to Marc many times before, when he makes up lies, he loses
credibility. It would be better if he were to stick to the truth. When
he posts an article where he makes a typical gloom and doom posting, then
supports it with 'facts' that turn out to be made up...it doesn't help
his reputation for honesty.
(and he still can't spell my name right)
Well, at least he's admitted he lied about the details, and softened
his 'conclusion'.
>| /// Michael Sinz - Senior Amiga Systems Engineer |
andy
--
andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy
"A new release is where old bad assumptions are replaced by new
bad assumptions."
Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
Brian Jackson - Amiga Networking
>In article <34...@cbmvax.commodore.com> m...@cbmvax.commodore.com (Michael Sinz) writes:
>>I know this is a mistake... I mean, I am following up to a Marc posting...!
Sheesh, no kidding, Mike :)
>>> Nobody from Commodore, not even Andy Finkle (who LOVES to flame me) has come
>>>out and said that all of my facts are wrong and that there is no truth to
>>>anything I said. They just said that my details are wrong, which is something
>>>that I will grant. But the reality is that the status of the CDTV is very
>>>doubtful.
>>
>>Well, maybe Andy was not as silly as I was in doing a followup to one of your
>>postings. I know that I should have known better...
>
>Marc is in my kill file in this newsgroup. So I only see his postings
>when someone responds to one of them. This saves me from even thinking
>about answering the ones that no one believes enough to respond to in any way.
Marc is in my kill files for -all- amiga groups that I read. And it's a
global kill so that any/all messages that even refer to him in any way are
nuked. The amount of credibility this guy gets from naive news readers
simply amazes me (but then so does the suucess of the TV shows "Hard Copy"
and "Three's Company".) Calls for Commodore to refute this guy's every,
silly, allegation abound. Get real, ya know? Like we have nothing better
to do. Folks, Marc is to CBM what the National Enquirer is to celebrities.
Caveat Emptor.
>For the record, I don't love to flame Marc. In fact, nothing would please
>me more if I never again felt the need to respond to a Barrett post.
Don't read anything that has to do with him, Andy, and the urge goes away.
> andy
>--
>andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy
Brian
Magnus Thelander
>compatible readers for their Amiga's. There will be one for both the A500
>and the A600. There's really no rush. It's not as though CD technology is
>thriving elsewhere.
The A570 CDTV crive for Amiga 500 is available in Sweden.
Magnus
Magnus Thelander
>not true? I mean everything that the do is shrowded with secrecy so that
>other companies will not get a jump on them. But a respone as to where or not
It's not an effort, to get the jump on C=. They are so slow, that they
make a snail look like a regular speed deamon.
Magnus
Stefan Gimeson
>A570 available in Sweden?!? Another CBM stunt, release the stuff in
>Europe, keep the U.S. in the dark and a year behind the rest of the world...
>great.
>
>BTW, what is the price for this Swedish A570 (in US $$ or English pounds
>if possible)...
>
>thom
>
The lowest price I'v seen is 3495 Skr (that's about 630 USD...), and there
is also a version for A600 availible (I think it's called "A630" or some-
thing like that..) for the same price.
/Stefan
===============================================================================
Stefan Gimeson e9...@efd.lu.se
Tunavagen 39 B660
223 63 Lund
Disclaimer - These opiini^H^H damn! ^H^H ^Q ^[ .... :w :q :wq :wq! ^d X ^?
exit X Q ^C ^? :quitbye CtrlAltDel ~~q :~q logout save/quit :!QUIT
^[zz ^[ZZZZZZ ^H man vi ^@ ^L ^[c ^# ^E ^X ^I ^T ? help helpquit ^D ^d
man help ^C ^c help exit ?Quit ?q CtrlShftDel "Hey, what does this button d..."
==============================================================================
Robert Lindsay
>>
>> You are being far too gullible. The Commodore reps did not say that CDTV
>>is not dead. In fact, they CONFIRMED that Gail Wellington has indeed been
>>laid off, and that Ben Phister has 'resigned'. Even if Ben Phister's
>>resignation was a personal one, the reality is that the leading person behind
>>the development of the CDTV really has been fired.
I don't know why I'm doing this, but anyway.... Marc do you know how long the
average programmer lasts at a job? 2.2 years. Unlike you marc, people move on,
the get a life, they want to do something else. SOmeday even Dave Haynie will
probably leave, someday you will graduate and get a job (I pity the poor fool
who hires you, and hope they don't have net access...)
Mark D. Nagel
> It is now totally official: CDTV is dead. On Monday, August 3, 1992,
>Commodore laid off all of their CDTV development people, including Gail
>wellington and Ben Phister. Most (if not all) CDTV development has now been
>effectively canceled.
> Basically, this reaks of more Commodore short-sightedness. Commodore has
>again canceled all development of an innovative idea, because one and only
>one implementation of this idea did not sell massively well immediately. I am
>certain that Commodore could have made money from the efforts of their CDTV
>development people if they had simply shifted all CD-ROM multimedia development
>to the Amiga, and made CD-XA-compatible CD-ROM drives, MPEG hardware, and
>innovative CD-ROM software available for all Amigas. But no, Commodore just
>went ahead and canceled everything. Since the people who were fired were also
>the people at Commodore who were leading the charge at Commodore for more
>Amiga CD-ROM support, there will likely never be any Amiga CD-ROM drives
>forthcoming from Commodore. The rumored MPEG hardware will also likely never
>be available for the CDTV or the Amiga.
> Another very sad day.
>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB- | email: bar...@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------
I have to wonder how many developers there were that got trashed as well. Can't
say that I would chomp at the bit (any resemblance to a PUN intended) to become
a developer.
How about a new slogan - "Great Ideas Which Stay That Way!" Or, "Marketing, Isn't
That Something Stockbrokers Do?"
--
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Snail: John Fluke Mfg. Co. / P.O. Box C9090 / Everett WA 98206
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Thomas VanNess Leavitt
Marc N Barrett
>Her departure has NOTHING to do with the CDTV development stopping -- in
>fact, CDTV development has stopped FOR NOW. The CDTV is good as it is, and
>when there's a need for developing further on it, it will be developed
>further...
Thank you for verifying the gist of my message. Some people would contest
the idea that CDTV is fine as it is, since it is in dire need of some
substantial improvements in the color palette and is also in need of real FMV.
It is true that CD-I systems are not selling for now, but the adoption of
MPEG FMV will make these machines more attractive. I don't think it would be
a good thing if the CD-I systems got real FMV and took off suddenly and CDTV
was left in the lurch wthout FMV for a time. In this industry, a few months
head start in any popular new technology might as well be an eternity.
>For now, all there is to it, is further PRODUCTION of CDTV's -- the
>development is now concentrated on accessories of all kinds...
>
>Ben Phister has had a desire for living in France, so he left for Paris
>friday the 7th, as far as I know. He got tired and fed up with the United
>States and wanted to live in France -- he is from San Francisco, (again) as
>far as I know.
>
>I may not have remember it all correctly, maybe John Orr, Carolyn or
>someone at CATS can fill in the details, but it should be about that.
>
>The bottom line is: the CDTV is *NOT* dead and the crew is *NOT* laid off.
>Marc's 'facts' were mostly wrong and again, he has proven very little
>insight in what's really going on.
You just verfified that CDTV development has been stopped for now, when
many will agree that the CDTV still needs furthr development.
>Just because Marc Barrett is a certified developer, doesn't mean he is in
>the know about Commodore, CATS and C= engineering.
I agree completely. I do not work for Commodore, and I have never been to
West Chester (though I have spent a substantial portion of my life in Europe).
So I obviosly cannot know all that much about the inner workings of Commodore.
However, would this information have ever come out if I had not posted it?
People may argue that I cloud true information with shady details, but people
from Commodore are not well known for volunteering information unless it is
really necessary.
> Jesper Kehlet, Compos Mentis Software Systems -- A Kind Of Magic
>
> (uunet|pyramid|rutgers)!cbmvax!cbmehq!cbmden!kehlet!kehlet
> cbmehq!cbmden!kehlet!keh...@cbmvax.commodore.com
>
> Since I am the president of this company, I speak not only for myself!
Dr Peter Kittel Germany
>
>
>No MB's message was simply nonsense. I personally will never believe anything
>he says again.
Ah, finally you got it. It took a long time, didn't it?
So please all netters that are rather new to this group: Take this as a
hint to better judge who is right here and who is wrong, *permanently*.
--
Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions...
Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
or pet...@public.sub.org
Dr Peter Kittel Germany
>In article <1992Aug6.1...@news.iastate.edu> bar...@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>>
>> It is now totally official: CDTV is dead. ...
>
> What the HELL! We NEED CDROM drives for the Amiga! Developers were actually
>taking CDTV seriously for awhile there. There was some consideration for
>making the new CD movies for CDTV as well as CD-I. Just another nail in the
>coffin I guess. Isn't it nice to watch Commodore continually shoot themselves
>in the foot? Why would anyone take the Amiga seriously for DTP if they didn't
>have CDROMS to grab fonts etc., or for DTV for images etc. Of course, we have
>CDROM FS etc ... but still, shouldn't COMMODORE be supporting some sort of
>Amiga CD standard! (As well as a 24 bit standard.)
This is only one of a bunch of similar reaction on Marc's erratic post.
Now do you finally recognize what damage *you* do with your wrong "facts"
do to the Amiga. Not every person on the world already knows you and can
judge the (not existant) truth of your claims.
You better shut up, before you really hurt the Amiga. Ever heard of
selffulfilling profecy? I really think it's time for you to apologize.
Philip McDunnough
[More re the false rumours re CDTV's "death"..]
>
>The bottom line is: the CDTV is *NOT* dead and the crew is *NOT* laid off.
>Marc's 'facts' were mostly wrong and again, he has proven very little
>insight in what's really going on.
>
>Just because Marc Barrett is a certified developer, doesn't mean he is in
>the know about Commodore, CATS and C= engineering.
There is something in thes e two paragraphs which does make me very
uneasy.
Philip McDunnough
phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
Philip McDunnough
Nice to hear. Perhaps it will reassure many who think that C= can do
nothing right. The mementum that CDTV drives for the Amiga line+ CDTV
(hopefully updated to include 2.xx and a hard drive) could easily make
CDTV the only real success story in computer "CD-ROM" world.
It's interesting to look at Lemmings for the SNES and the CDTV. Both are
quite nice, but the CDTV version is much better except for the fact that
the choices for which tool to assign to a Lemming are not very legible.
The SNES version has fewer tools for each level and they are larger. Wouldn't
have the ability to change the standard number of columns ( currently only
2 choices) help?
Philip McDunnough
phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
David Tiberio
>
>What kind of idiotic statement is this?!? CD-I sales continue (Photo-CD will
>give them more steam), software development continues in _major_ fashion, and
>several new players will soon be introduced. Have you seen CD-I World, a
>monthly magazine with a quarterly magazine-on-a-CD-I-disk? CD-I's
>introduction has been expected to take three or more years; to declare it a
>failure after less than ten months (especially considering the number of
>retailers carrying the product and the not-insignificant sales-to-date) is
>simply ludicrous.
Conersation with Radio Shack salesman in shopping mall:
ME: Have you sold any of these things?
RS: We did at Cristmas when it was $800, but at $600 we haven't sold
any and probably won't.
ME: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ... yeah, like I'm going to pay $260 for
a 13 inch TV ... HA HA HA ... oh, and $360 is good for a car CD
player without a radio ... HA HA HA ... and I like $260 2 head
VCRs and $1000 camcorders that sell for $700 in other stores ...
--
// David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 516-473-5156 AMIGA DDD-MEN
// bounce-resistant: dtiberio%libserv1.ic...@sunysb.edu
\X/ Perot for President 1-516-399-2259 Long Island, New York
PPPP EEEEE RRRR OOO TTTTT IIIII N N 999 2222
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PPPP EEEE RRRR O O T I N N N 9999 222
P E R R O O T I N NN 9 2
P EEEEE R R OOO T IIIII N N 9999 22222
Philip McDunnough
>Europe, keep the U.S. in the dark and a year behind the rest of the world...
>great.
US corporations do this all the time. How does it feel to be on the other
end of the stick?
[ ]
Philip McDunnough
phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
Glenn Doiron
>In article <1992Aug7.0...@marlin.jcu.edu.au> cp...@marlin.jcu.edu.au (Colin Adams) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug6.1...@news.iastate.edu> bar...@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>>>
>>>Commodore laid off all of their CDTV development people, including Gail
>>>wellington and Ben Phister. Most (if not all) CDTV development has now been
>>>effectively canceled.
>>
>
>September, we then find out that they do ridiculous things such as this.
>What's with them?
>
>It looks like the new hardware to be released/announced will be the
>040 3000T and the 040 card which should have been out ages ago. Argh!
So nobody knows if either 1. they were laid off, or 2. their contract
expired. Remember, this is -MB- we're talking about here.
Glenn Doiron
--
Amiga UUCP+
Origin: uunet!starpt!doiron (Organization:68K Software Development)
BIX: gdoiron
** Not enough memory to perform requested operation. Add 4 megs and retry.
David Tiberio
>Europe, keep the U.S. in the dark and a year behind the rest of the world...
>great.
Sorry, but I must disagree. If I were in charge, and were told to
introduce the A570 to either the US or Europe, but not both, I would choose
Europe without delay. It has more A500's and it is a larger market for
Amiga products.
Now the 386 Bridgeboard on the other hand should have come to the
US market first since the US is geared more towards A2000 and A3000 systems,
but I am not sure how these machines fare in Europe.
What CBM should have done about the A570 is make it an external drive
that plugs into any Amiga external SCSI port.
Jim Pritchett
> I know this is a mistake... I mean, I am following up to a Marc posting...!
Yeah, me too...
I just had an idea. Since CBM is infamous for dumping people, why doesn't CBM
hire MB? They could save time and fire him immediately. Maybe this would make
the executives happy and save some jobs for the critical people there.
Alternatively, CBM could give MB an Apple or PC clone. Then he could spend all
his time on the net bashing Apple or IBM...
Seriously, why do we so rarely hear (on the net) from the folks that CBM dumps?
Other than a very few "goodbye" notes, it seems that these folks just disappear!
Are they so hacked at CBM that they dump their Amigas? Does anyone know?
Jim Pritchett
UUCP: rwsys.lonestar.org!caleb!jdp
or utacfd.uta.edu!rwsys!caleb!jdp
Bill Sheppard
> Just as CD-I failed, so will CDTV I believe unless the
>A500 adapter comes out.
> -- Ethan
What kind of idiotic statement is this?!? CD-I sales continue (Photo-CD will
give them more steam), software development continues in _major_ fashion, and
several new players will soon be introduced. Have you seen CD-I World, a
monthly magazine with a quarterly magazine-on-a-CD-I-disk? CD-I's
introduction has been expected to take three or more years; to declare it a
failure after less than ten months (especially considering the number of
retailers carrying the product and the not-insignificant sales-to-date) is
simply ludicrous.
--
***************************** cyc...@netcom.com ******************************
* Witty Signature Pending *
* Applications Now Being Accepted... *
********************************************************************************
GSD Advanced Packing/Processes
> What CBM should have done about the A570 is make it an external drive
>that plugs into any Amiga external SCSI port.
REALLY!
Why should I again have to shell out for a scsi interface and memory
expansion? I already have these things on my A500!
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
Mike Lundberg 7115 Alta Ave east
a...@shamash.cdc.com Inver Grove Hieghts, MN 55077
home (612) 455-6538
*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
Thomas &
: West Chester (though I have spent a substantial portion of my life in Europe).
: However, would this information have ever come out if I had not posted it?
: People may argue that I cloud true information with shady details, but people
I would call it abuse of information. You turn truth into lie. You seem to
think of it as "not so bad", but then you might find that people want to know
if they can trust You. You're like a man crying FIRE now and then, just for
fun. You know what happened to him?
If i think about it, it might be you even can't trust yourself. If you can't
separate opinion from fact, perhaps you can't separate fiction and fact.
But this sentence will be ignored by you, thats obvious.
: from Commodore are not well known for volunteering information unless it is
: really necessary.
They work. Thats it. Simple eh?
:
: ---
: | Marc Barrett -MB- | email: bar...@iastate.edu
: --------------------------------------------------
thomas,
who knows, that this posting won't change MB ,
but was necessary for the rest. (-:)
PS that's my pselling errors!
Kenneth Jamieson
>when someone responds to one of them. This saves me from even thinking
>about answering the ones that no one believes enough to respond to in any way.
So let me get this straight then - as a member of the new
"keep everyone informed" C=, you have decided the the single most
vocal Amiga commentator of doom - one who has a audience on 7
continents, is not worth your time to respond to. In other words, just
like before - C= will only give out informat too little, way to late
and only then when the hue and cry forces them to!
>Well, at least he's admitted he lied about the details, and softened
>his 'conclusion'.
Sorry - I think there is a difference between admitting that
the details of information you got second hand may be wrong and saying
you lied.
How about putting this thing to sleep...
Can you assure us that the CDTV development team has not lost
any funding or resources in this fiasco ?
When can we expect a upgraded CDTV machine ?
If C= won't tell us these things - we will have to go with the
info we get.
(and yes, the Unix parralel is scary)
--
+--[ Xanadu Enterprises Inc. Lingerie, Consulting, RPG's and ANIME ]-+.sign
| Please send email for detailed product or catalogue information! |ature
| Ken Jamieson: uunet!tronsbox.xei.com!tron1 |Virus
|---NONE of the opinions represented here are endorsed by anybody!---|V3.2
| Original contents are Copyright (c)1992 |1992!
+--------------------------------------------------------------------+
Kenneth Jamieson
>
>This is only one of a bunch of similar reaction on Marc's erratic post.
>
>Now do you finally recognize what damage *you* do with your wrong "facts"
>do to the Amiga. Not every person on the world already knows you and can
>judge the (not existant) truth of your claims.
Hmm.. when will C= learn that there is a huge rumor mill about
the Amiga - and that these things can be avoided if you would just
inform us yourselves!!!!
How much effort would it have taken "folks - there has been a
shakeup - don't panic about it" in a usenet post and it all could have
been avoided.
Did C= HONESTLY think we wouldn't find out about these changes
? Did they honestly think rumors would not start to fly ?
>
>You better shut up, before you really hurt the Amiga. Ever heard of
>selffulfilling profecy? I really think it's time for you to apologize.
Chucle - you work for C= and can throw blame like THIS around!
>
>--
>Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions...
>Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
> or pet...@public.sub.org
Rick Kelly
>>CD-I did not fail
>
>Maybe, but it fast disappearing.
>
>Phillips cancelled at the last minute to show their stuff at FOSE,
>and Sears in the DC area yanked the CD-I units from the display.
>
>I haven't checked Monkey Wards, but Video Concepts still sells them
>along with an Amiga 500.
>
>No, CD-I is not dead, but Phillips is certainly marketing it like
>C....
>
>no, I won't say it.
Phillips pulled their line of clones ( Magnavox ) from the US marketplace.
Maybe they are considering doing the same thing with CD-I. Right now is
not a good time to be trying to sell consumers something that they don't
really need.
--
Rick Kelly Rick's Amiga Framingham, Mass.
think!unixland!rmkhome!rkamiga!root
Rick Kelly
>phi...@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
>>kdar...@garfield.catt.ncsu.edu (Kevin Darling) writes:
>>>OTOH, it is probable that current CDTV models cannot be expanded with MPEG.
>>>But then, I don't believe Commodore has ever promised that they could be.
>>
>> Why do you say that? That is not what we've been told all along. MPEG will
>> be in CDTV. Now whether or not it needs to be upgraded is another story. I
>> would be very annoyed if the current one can't support it. C= has a very
>> good policy re upgrades.
>
>Depends on your idea of what constitutes an "upgrade". A new motherboard?
>Yah, I've previously said that Commodore is good about trade-ins. But at
>what cost? Philips will be almost giving away their plug-in card at $200.
>
>Show me one official statement from Commodore saying that the current CDTV
>model can be easily and cheaply fitted with MPEG. And I don't mean more
>junk from kiddie BBSs or silly Amiga rumor columns either (like all that
>wasted talk about a DCTV addon card).
>
>> I'm not so sure about Philips. The only model I saw up here will never
>> be sold as it doesn't, and can't, support MPEG.
>
>C'mon. You know as well as I do that what you saw wasn't a consumer player,
>but an industrial model built long before even CDTV came out, much less MPEG.
>
>> I wasn't thinking of CD-I players, but do all of them have multi-session
>> capability? I doubt it.
>
>Yes, according to Kodak, all consumer (and current industrial) CD-I units do.
>
>> Oh please. The QuickTime agreement was only just signed. PhotoCD readers
>> don't exist for the PC/Mac. You are talking futures again Kevin. Why don't
>> we talk about now, or at least in the near future at reasonable prices.
>
>We are. This is quoted from a Kodak posting on CompuServe on 1 August:
>
> "You can purchase Photo CD Access Software for $39.95. This software
> is available for Mac and DOS/Windows. Call 800-242-2424, extension 53."
>
>Altho I've just read that their Mac software has been delayed a few weeks.
>On the other hand, there are other companies currently offering Photo CD
>access software. For example, here's a recent posting:
>
> " If you have access to a 386 pc, Virtual BookMaker will let you read
> and convert a Photo CD disk. $25.00, postpaid, from Randall Kopchak,
> 2233 Keeven Lane, Florissant, MO 63031.
> " The picture quality is unreal and you can access anywhere from mono to
> 16 and 256 color, and 16 million color. We've been very impressed with the
> Kodak system and the fact that the scans exceed the capabilities of all
> but the most exotic systems."
>
>I'm not even trying to keep track of all the Mac/PC companies which already
>have, or have announced, Photo CD file support. You probably won't find
>this kind of info if you only read Usenet, btw. That's why I try to keep
>people here updated on what's happening in the real world :-)
Kodak Photo CD does have one hitch that film developers/photo printers
are concerned about. The machine for digitizing photographs onto CDs
is about $150000. Businessmen will want to see some evidence of a
market before they fork over the money to Kodak.
David Tiberio
>> What CBM should have done about the A570 is make it an external drive
>>that plugs into any Amiga external SCSI port.
>
>then. Also, its slightly tricky to put a rom for the 256K of the CDTV OS
>on a SCSI port.
>--
>andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy
>
> bad assumptions."
>
>Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
>I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
David Tiberio
>In article <34...@cbmvax.commodore.com> an...@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
>>
>>Marc is in my kill file in this newsgroup.
>
>"keep everyone informed" C=, you have decided the the single most
>vocal Amiga commentator of doom - one who has a audience on 7
>continents, is not worth your time to respond to.
<<<< NEWSFLASH >>>>
AP. - Earlier today in a recent spat between disgruntled Amiga
computer users, a well known user, Marc Barrett, reportedly announced the
cancellation of a large research and development project at Commodoe, Intl.
Details are slowly being provided.
Unfortunately as a backlash an entire continent was wiped out from
what is heralded as confidential information leaked about other research
projects. John Beeler stated earlier today, " I may very well be the last
Amiga user on the continent, well, former Amiga user, on the continent of
Anarctica."
The full report is confirmed at this time. Marc Barrett wiped out
an entire continent of Amiga users single-handedly.
pet...@hydra.maths.unsw.edu.au
>
> It is now totally official: CDTV is dead. On Monday, August 3, 1992,
[...]
> Another very sad day.
>
>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB- | email: bar...@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------
Indeed, another very sad day: Marc Barrett has opened his mouth again.
I wonder if it ever occured to him that the only thing he seems to do is
shit people off by making stupid remarks and jumping to conclusions.
Peter Urbanec pet...@hydra.maths.unsw.oz.au
University of New South Wales s101...@cs.unsw.oz.au
Sydney, Australia
The only sin is stupidity - Machiavelli
Tony Poole
> How much effort would it have taken "folks - there has been a
>shakeup - don't panic about it" in a usenet post and it all could have
>been avoided.
Oh, this is so stupid. Do you honestly believe the world revolves around the
Internet?
OK, so they announce here, in this cynic arena we call c.s.a.advocacy, that
there has been a shakeup, and not to worry.
But wait, BIX users haven't heard, better jump on there, tell them the same.
But hold the phone, CIS users haven't heard...tell them.
Ooops, wait a minute...can't forget about Genie users....whew....
Oh Oh, what about all those Fido nodes? Now how are we gonna do this...
My point is - get a grip. One person left of his own accord, and one person
is rumored to have been layed off. How many people does C= employ? You
can't seriously expect that they keep you informed of every single personell
shift, do you? The world does not revolve around this newsgroup, or any of
these newsgroups. Hell, looking at the way some people act around here,
this would be the LAST place I'd announce anything if I was PR at C=.
Sheesh.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tony Poole to...@umcc.ais.org * to...@irie.ais.org
Traverse City, MI USA to...@cherry1.trv.mi.us * to...@cherry1.UUCP
Pat Meloy
> In article <kehle...@kehlet.adsp.sub.org> keh...@kehlet.adsp.sub.org (Jesper Kehlet) writes:
> >Her departure has NOTHING to do with the CDTV development stopping -- in
> >fact, CDTV development has stopped FOR NOW. The CDTV is good as it is, and
> >when there's a need for developing further on it, it will be developed
> >further...
>
> Thank you for verifying the gist of my message. Some people would contest
> the idea that CDTV is fine as it is, since it is in dire need of some
> substantial improvements in the color palette and is also in need of real FMV.
> It is true that CD-I systems are not selling for now, but the adoption of
> MPEG FMV will make these machines more attractive. I don't think it would be
> a good thing if the CD-I systems got real FMV and took off suddenly and CDTV
> was left in the lurch wthout FMV for a time. In this industry, a few months
> head start in any popular new technology might as well be an eternity.
Hey Mark, ya idjit, take a look down here
|
V
> >For now, all there is to it, is further PRODUCTION of CDTV's -- the
> >development is now concentrated on accessories of all kinds...
CDTV itself (the CPU) is finished. They are now working on accessories.
Has it not filtered into your brain that perhaps the MPEG add-ons etc are
ACCESSORIES? Think of it like this. Development on the A2000 stopped long
ago, yet we are still getting HD drives, network adapters, AA chipsets, and
the like. Gee, that must all be "vapourware" since development on the 2000
doesn't exist!
Get a brain,
Get a life,
Get outa our faces!
Marc N Barrett
>>that plugs into any Amiga external SCSI port.
>
>then. Also, its slightly tricky to put a rom for the 256K of the CDTV OS
>on a SCSI port.
Not very difficult to solve, really. Just ZKick that part of the CDTV ROM
OS, or make a Zorro II card with this 256K ROM and a SCSI interface for the
CD-ROM drive. I would prefer the former, though, so that people who already
have SCSI interfaces on their Amigas do not have to tie up a slot just for
the 256K of ROM.
>"A new release is where old bad assumptions are replaced by new
> bad assumptions."
>
>Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
>I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
---
Thomas VanNess Leavitt
Thom
Kenneth Jamieson
>>Her departure has NOTHING to do with the CDTV development stopping -- in
>>fact, CDTV development has stopped FOR NOW. The CDTV is good as it is, and
>>when there's a need for developing further on it, it will be developed
>>further...
Ah! So it pretty much is exactly like the Unix situation.
Hmm.. seems like for the most part MB was right on this one.
Andy - confirm or deny.
>>
>>The bottom line is: the CDTV is *NOT* dead and the crew is *NOT* laid off.
>>Marc's 'facts' were mostly wrong and again, he has proven very little
>>insight in what's really going on.
>
> You just verfified that CDTV development has been stopped for now, when
>many will agree that the CDTV still needs furthr development.
heh.
Jim Pritchett
> It wouldn't work on most of the A500s out there without additional expense,
> then. Also, its slightly tricky to put a rom for the 256K of the CDTV OS
> on a SCSI port.
Why not a piggyback board for the ROM (and supporting circuitry and jumpers)
and an arbitrary external SCSI CD-ROM drive?
Jim Pritchett
> So let me get this straight then - as a member of the new
> "keep everyone informed" C=, you have decided the the single most
> vocal Amiga commentator of doom - one who has a audience on 7
> continents, is not worth your time to respond to. In other words, just
> like before - C= will only give out informat too little, way to late
> and only then when the hue and cry forces them to!
How could anyone at CBM get any work done on new things if they have to spend
all their time answering MB's stupid posts? Personally, I don't want CBM
technical folks wasting time answering MB posts.
Bill Cavanaugh
>
[quoted stuff deleted]
>This is only one of a bunch of similar reaction on Marc's erratic post.
>
>Now do you finally recognize what damage *you* do with your wrong "facts"
>do to the Amiga. Not every person on the world already knows you and can
>judge the (not existant) truth of your claims.
>
>You better shut up, before you really hurt the Amiga. Ever heard of
>selffulfilling profecy? I really think it's time for you to apologize.
>
Well, I guess if Commodore's gonna make a call to every one of their
customers to sell the machines, they're gonna have to live with what
they get. Either you guys get the information out yourselves, or
somebody else will.
bill
--
* Bill Cavanaugh bl...@tronsbox.xei.com *
* *
"That whole thing about the 'child within' I've always
felt to be kinda stunted in a way."
Tim Burton (speaking to Bob Costas)
XY + XX = :-)
Liam Greenwood
>A570 available in Sweden?!? Another CBM stunt, release the stuff in
>Europe, keep the U.S. in the dark and a year behind the rest of the world...
>great.
>if possible)...
If $NZ are O.K. :-) ... the A570 retails at $NZ955.00
--
Liam Greenwood ------ li...@durie.amigans.gen.nz ------ Wanganui, N.Z.
Don't tell my Mother I'm a programmer,
she thinks I'm a piano player in a brothel
Richard A Romano
>In article <34...@cbmvax.commodore.com> an...@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
>>In article <1992Aug11....@sbcs.sunysb.edu> dtib...@libws2.ic.sunysb.edu (David Tiberio) writes:
>>> What CBM should have done about the A570 is make it an external drive
>>>that plugs into any Amiga external SCSI port.
>>
>>It wouldn't work on most of the A500s out there without additional expense,
>>then. Also, its slightly tricky to put a rom for the 256K of the CDTV OS
>>on a SCSI port.
>
> Not very difficult to solve, really. Just ZKick that part of the CDTV ROM
>OS, or make a Zorro II card with this 256K ROM and a SCSI interface for the
Maybe the Emplant Board can emulate a CDTV as well.
>CD-ROM drive. I would prefer the former, though, so that people who already
>have SCSI interfaces on their Amigas do not have to tie up a slot just for
>the 256K of ROM.
>
>>"A new release is where old bad assumptions are replaced by new
>> bad assumptions."
>>
>>Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
>>I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
>
>---
>| Marc Barrett -MB- | email: bar...@iastate.edu
>--------------------------------------------------
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Romano SPACE FOR RENT
Manager - System Development If you would like to rent this space
Iowa Driving Simulator Call 555-5555.
Jean Pepin
>In article <1992Aug8.0...@utstat.uucp> phi...@utstat.uucp (Philip McDunnough) writes:
> >
> >Marc Barrett was totally out to lunch on this one.
> >
> >No MB's message was simply nonsense. I personally will never believe anything
> >he says again.
>Ah, finally you got it. It took a long time, didn't it?
>So please all netters that are rather new to this group: Take this as a
>hint to better judge who is right here and who is wrong, *permanently*.
>--
>Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions...
>Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
> or pet...@public.sub.org
It's easy to be right with the no comment politic.
Is Gail Wellington is out now, right or wrong?
If right, is it related to CDTV fiasco sale, right or wrong?
Is the new chips specs are rigth or wrong?
Is the new AA machine will show to Pasadena, rigth or wrong?
etc.
If you reply that, we will have substance to judge.
--
\*** CCC AAA M M CLUB AMIGA MONTREAL ------- Internet -------
*** C A A MM MM C.P. 5195 Succursale C | je...@ringo.CAM.ORG |
***** C AAA M M M Montreal, Quebec H2X 3N2 ------------------------
*** CCC A A M M (514) 738-5173 Jean Pepin -- PRESIDENT
Ralph Babel
> As I've posted to Marc many times before, when he makes up
> lies, he loses credibility. It would be better if he were
> to stick to the truth. When he posts an article where he
> makes a typical gloom and doom posting, then supports it
> with 'facts' that turn out to be made up...it doesn't help
> his reputation for honesty.
"Why let 'em upset us?
Caiaphas, let him be!
All those imbeciles will see,
He really doesn't matter."
Ralph
Ethan Solomita
>e...@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes:
>
>> Just as CD-I failed, so will CDTV I believe unless the
>>A500 adapter comes out.
>
>> -- Ethan
>
>What kind of idiotic statement is this?!? CD-I sales continue (Photo-CD will
>give them more steam), software development continues in _major_ fashion, and
>several new players will soon be introduced. Have you seen CD-I World, a
>monthly magazine with a quarterly magazine-on-a-CD-I-disk? CD-I's
>introduction has been expected to take three or more years; to declare it a
>failure after less than ten months (especially considering the number of
>retailers carrying the product and the not-insignificant sales-to-date) is
>simply ludicrous.
My apologies. In retrospect, what I was thinking about
and what I wrote didn't have too much in common. I was really
thinking about what happened to CD-I this last Christmas, and
admittedly still today.
I didn't mean to imply that CD-I will never get anywhere.
My point was just that CDTV won't do better than CD-I has done so
far, IMNSHO, without the A500/600/etc. models in order to give it
that push it seems to need.
-- Ethan
purgamentum init, exit purgamentum
Ian Kennedy
>>
>> What CBM should have done about the A570 is make it an external drive
>>that plugs into any Amiga external SCSI port.
>
>REALLY!
>
>Why should I again have to shell out for a scsi interface and memory
>expansion? I already have these things on my A500!
Did you read his post? You wouldn't have to shell out for another
SCSI controller as the A570 he describes would plug right into
your SCSI controler, making it cheaper than the model C= now offers.
>
>*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
>Mike Lundberg 7115 Alta Ave east
>a...@shamash.cdc.com Inver Grove Hieghts, MN 55077
> home (612) 455-6538
>*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*
--
/* Ia...@Microsoft.com */
/* I want my 32bit chip set */
Mike Schwartz
> In article <92080...@genesis.nred.ma.us> nug...@genesis.nred.ma.us (Ralph Barbagallo) writes:
> >In article <1992Aug6.1...@news.iastate.edu> bar...@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
> >>
> >
> > What the HELL! We NEED CDROM drives for the Amiga! Developers were actually
> >taking CDTV seriously for awhile there. There was some consideration for
> >making the new CD movies for CDTV as well as CD-I. Just another nail in the
> >coffin I guess. Isn't it nice to watch Commodore continually shoot themselves
> >in the foot? Why would anyone take the Amiga seriously for DTP if they didn't
> >have CDROMS to grab fonts etc., or for DTV for images etc. Of course, we have
> >CDROM FS etc ... but still, shouldn't COMMODORE be supporting some sort of
> >Amiga CD standard! (As well as a 24 bit standard.)
>
> This is only one of a bunch of similar reaction on Marc's erratic post.
>
You missed the meat of Ralph's post - The amiga needs CD-ROM (not CDTV) to grab
fonts, etc., or for DTV for images. Shouldn't CBM be supporting some sort of
Amiga CD standard! Totally correct, and nothing to do with Marc's idiotic
post.
> Now do you finally recognize what damage *you* do with your wrong "facts"
> do to the Amiga. Not every person on the world already knows you and can
> judge the (not existant) truth of your claims.
>
Marc has done ZIP to the Amiga or for it. But I am not defending him :)
I am observing the truth. CBM screwed up the Amiga all on its own.
They LIED to publishers about new machines and price points. They
lied to EA and told them the A1000 would cost $1000 (I paid $2500 for
mine - HINT). Wonder why EA doesn't support the Amiga so much? They lied
again about the price of CDTV - double the promised MSRP. Only stupid
or gullible publishers who haven't had the wonderful burn experience of
trusting CBM fell for it.
And to expect stores and publishers to carry the entire load of advertising
the machine AND their products is just too moronic. Too stupid. To idiotic.
To much like CBM.
> You better shut up, before you really hurt the Amiga. Ever heard of
> selffulfilling profecy? I really think it's time for you to apologize.
>
Marc should definately apologize. Maybe he should post only once a week
instead of daily. That I'll agree with you on.
If the posts about the new Amigas are true, I'm through with the Amiga as
my main machine. I have already dumped $15K or more into CBM gear (amigas)
and now you are dumping ME. I am not going to develop stuff for an expensive
machine with incompatible graphics modes with the bulk of what's out there.
I am not going to buy the damn machine and have no software to use on it.
I am not going to push the Amiga on companies I do business with.
CBM has obviously - very obviously, chosen to seek the game market at the
low end and the video market at the high end. And your OS stinks for doing
games. ANd it stinks for apps, too. No matter how well it is designed.
No matter how GREAT (and GREAT they are) the engineers who build it are.
There's your self-fulfilling prophecy. Now, I've kept my mouth shut for
YEARS. I am not going to stop flaming CBM until they go down in flames.
And that they will.
> --
> Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions...
> Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk
> or pet...@public.sub.org
--
Amiga programmer of: GRn, MailMinder, Budokan, Beyond Dark Castle, Dark Castle
Sega Genesis programmer of: Dick Tracy and Marble Madness.
Mike Schwartz (ames!zorch!amiga0!mykes or my...@amiga0.sf-bay.org)
1124 Fremont Ave.
Los Altos, CA 94024
Mike Schwartz
> > What CBM should have done about the A570 is make it an external drive
> >that plugs into any Amiga external SCSI port.
>
> then. Also, its slightly tricky to put a rom for the 256K of the CDTV OS
> on a SCSI port.
>
This just illustrates the stupidity of doing CDTV in the first place. 256K
of CDTV OS could be a ROM upgrade as OS 2.04 was. Or disk-loaded .libraries
for machines that have the memory. And ALL amigas could have made use of
CD ROM instead of NONE.
> > // David Tiberio SUNY Stony Brook 516-473-5156 AMIGA DDD-MEN
>
>
> andy
> --
> andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy
>
> "A new release is where old bad assumptions are replaced by new
> bad assumptions."
>
> Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
> I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
--
Kenneth Jamieson
>tr...@tronsbox.xei.com (Kenneth Jamieson) writes:
>
>
>> How much effort would it have taken "folks - there has been a
>>shakeup - don't panic about it" in a usenet post and it all could have
>>been avoided.
>
>Oh, this is so stupid. Do you honestly believe the world revolves around the
>Internet?
See below.
>
>OK, so they announce here, in this cynic arena we call c.s.a.advocacy, that
>there has been a shakeup, and not to worry.
So far so good - it doesn't cost anything.
>
>But wait, BIX users haven't heard, better jump on there, tell them the same.
C= has a presence on BIX - they can ut it there for free as well.
>
>But hold the phone, CIS users haven't heard...tell them.
Hmm.. you mean C= would have to have a 7.92$ a month CIS
account! There goes the last of the R&D budget.
>
>Ooops, wait a minute...can't forget about Genie users....whew....
Heh.
>
>Oh Oh, what about all those Fido nodes? Now how are we gonna do this...
No problem - the usenet folks will put it there.
>My point is - get a grip. One person left of his own accord, and one person
>is rumored to have been layed off. How many people does C= employ? You
>can't seriously expect that they keep you informed of every single personell
>shift, do you? The world does not revolve around this newsgroup, or any of
>these newsgroups. Hell, looking at the way some people act around here,
>this would be the LAST place I'd announce anything if I was PR at C=.
>
Get a good tight grip yourself. It was a C= employee who
started screaming at the top of his lungs how much the MB >USENET<
post was going to hurt the Amiga. HE seems to believe that the Usenet
has some pull in the real world. So I suggested what C= could do to
prevent the thing THEY are upset about.
Andy Finkel
>>
>>Marc is in my kill file in this newsgroup. So I only see his postings
>>when someone responds to one of them. This saves me from even thinking
>>about answering the ones that no one believes enough to respond to in any way.
>
> So let me get this straight then - as a member of the new
>"keep everyone informed" C=, you have decided the the single most
>vocal Amiga commentator of doom - one who has a audience on 7
First, I don't work for C= , therefore who I think is worth responding to
is my business. Note the organization header. I do occasional
consulting for C=, but that's about it.
Second, someone who constantly lies just isn't worth my time. If someone
actually believes him, I'll post to try to correct the distortion
Marc has made, but I've got better things to do with my time
than monitor him.
>continents, is not worth your time to respond to. In other words, just
>like before - C= will only give out informat too little, way to late
>and only then when the hue and cry forces them to!
Usenet is 'free time' activity for C= engineers. Are you suggesting
someone be appointed 'Guardian of Truth' for .advocacy ? Seriously ?
>
>>Well, at least he's admitted he lied about the details, and softened
>>his 'conclusion'.
>
> Sorry - I think there is a difference between admitting that
>the details of information you got second hand may be wrong and saying
>you lied.
>
I believe he's demonstrated a consistant pattern of abuse of the
truth by now. You know the old saying "Fool me once, shame on
you. Fool me twice, shame on me" ? Well, its been a lot more than
twice :-)
> How about putting this thing to sleep...
I agree. That's why I put him in a kill file for this newsgroup.
>
> Can you assure us that the CDTV development team has not lost
>any funding or resources in this fiasco ?
>
> When can we expect a upgraded CDTV machine ?
>
Again, I don't work for C=. Also, I don't believe that Usenet
is an official support channel.
> If C= won't tell us these things - we will have to go with the
>info we get.
Which is a truism. BTW, the reasoning behind the statement is
real close to the logic of a software pirate. "If you'd lower
your prices I wouldn't pirate your software"
>| Ken Jamieson: uunet!tronsbox.xei.com!tron1 |Virus
Jesper Kehlet
> In article <34...@cbmvax.commodore.com> an...@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) writes:
> >It wouldn't work on most of the A500s out there without additional expense,
> >then. Also, its slightly tricky to put a rom for the 256K of the CDTV OS
> >on a SCSI port.
>
> Not very difficult to solve, really. Just ZKick that part of the CDTV ROM
> OS, or make a Zorro II card with this 256K ROM and a SCSI interface for the
> CD-ROM drive. I would prefer the former, though, so that people who already
> have SCSI interfaces on their Amigas do not have to tie up a slot just for
> the 256K of ROM.
You're in Andy's killfile, but it's a good and reasonable point, you give
there (at last?), so hopefully they'll read this follow-up quotation...
> Marc Barrett -MB-
--
Jesper Kehlet, Compos Mentis Software Systems -- A Kind Of Magic
(uunet|pyramid|rutgers)!cbmvax!cbmehq!cbmden!kehlet!kehlet
cbmehq!cbmden!kehlet!keh...@cbmvax.commodore.com
As long as I speak for myself, my employees can do that, too...
Jesper Kehlet
> In article <kehle...@kehlet.adsp.sub.org> keh...@kehlet.adsp.sub.org (Jesper Kehlet) writes:
>
> >
> >The bottom line is: the CDTV is *NOT* dead and the crew is *NOT* laid off.
> >Marc's 'facts' were mostly wrong and again, he has proven very little
> >insight in what's really going on.
> >
> >the know about Commodore, CATS and C= engineering.
>
> There is something in thes e two paragraphs which does make me very
> uneasy.
I'm not quite sure what you mean here?
> Philip McDunnough
> phi...@utstat.toronto.edu
--
Jesper Kehlet, Compos Mentis Software Systems -- A Kind Of Magic
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Jesper Kehlet
> > What CBM should have done about the A570 is make it an external drive
> >that plugs into any Amiga external SCSI port.
>
> then. Also, its slightly tricky to put a rom for the 256K of the CDTV OS
> on a SCSI port.
But couldn't this have been done by providing some Kickstart disk alike
sort of thing?
> --
> andy finkel
Andy Finkel
>sort of thing?
>
ram loaded CDTV libraries would be one solution on a machine with
more than a meg of ram and a hard disk. But we were talking
about the A570, meant to hook up to the A500 and convert it to
a CDTV.
Requiring a scsi controller, extra ram, and a hard disk would
add to the cost of the unit.
As a solution to CDTV for an A2000/A3000 ? Why ? A Zorro II card
with a cable to the external CDROM drive would be a lot easier.
(and you wouldn't have to find or design a SCSI CDROM drive that handles
subcode data)
And, yes, of course I agree such a card should have been done a year
ago.
andy
--
andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy
"C++ should really have been called D."
Richard Addison
>"C++ should really have been called D."
Well, each time you evaluate C++, its value increases.
--Richard
(Stop evaluating me! -:)
Marc N Barrett
>more than a meg of ram and a hard disk. But we were talking
>about the A570, meant to hook up to the A500 and convert it to
>a CDTV.
>
>Requiring a scsi controller, extra ram, and a hard disk would
>add to the cost of the unit.
True, but the A570 has already been developed, and rumored to be shipping
in Sweden. I keep referring to the need for a method to allow A2000 and
A3000 systems (or any system that can use Zorro II cards) to run CDTV titles.
There have been three articles in AmigaWorld on a CDTV-compatible CD-ROM drive
for the A500, but no articles on one for the A2000/A3000, so it is in question
whether or not such a device or product is in development.
>As a solution to CDTV for an A2000/A3000 ? Why ? A Zorro II card
>with a cable to the external CDROM drive would be a lot easier.
>
>(and you wouldn't have to find or design a SCSI CDROM drive that handles
> subcode data)
>
>And, yes, of course I agree such a card should have been done a year
>ago.
Or I have another idea. A third-party developer could license a 2.0-
compatible version of the CDTV OS from Commodore, including the extra 256K
of OS software. This third-party could then modify the CDTV OS slightly to
allow it to run properly on Amigas with appropriate third-party CD-ROM
drives. It might not run on all third-party drives (the 'subcode data'
problem being one example), and it might have to be restricted to only
running on systems with at least 2M of total RAM and 1M of chip RAM and an
MMU, but it would be better than nothing. At the very least, it would
allow all A3000 systems with an appropriate CD-ROM drive to use CDTV titles.
>andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy
>
>"C++ should really have been called D."
>
>
>Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share.
>I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
---
| Marc Barrett -MB- | email: bar...@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
"Beware the ides of September..."