The END?
Ricardo Hernandez
This is well indeed....
>>>>>>>> THE END
Unless of course, someone buys them.... I don't see that
happening, except perhaps HP, since they were the ones who
licensed the AA, although who knows if they'll just use it
and 'thats it' :-(
--
------------------------------------------------------------
Raist - "Will wait for a good PowerPC standard if my machine's dead" :-(
Nah... ;-) ... Oh well... :-( he he... sniff/*snob* ;-)
BTW, follow-ups to .advocacy
Jose Elias
: If the reports about C='s latest finances are true....
: This is well indeed....
: >>>>>>>> THE END
Dude, if you beleive everything you read on magazines, newspapers,
and even here in usenet, then by now you should be playing with
Mega Windows NT, your powerMac has 1,300 applications on the shelves
and it can run native 680X0 applications faster than a speedy bullet
among other things.
Please wake up to the real world.
It's been _SIX_ years now since i first got a C64 and was hearing about
C='s death. Well ever since we got about 20 more amiga models, three
revisions of the chip set, cooler software and hardware, and the best
computer for the dollar you can buy. Plus, it's got a nice personality
that reminds me of the mighty 64...
.---'\/\/\/`--- - - - - - - - - - - ---'\/\/\/`---.
| hac...@acs.bu.edu |
`----------[ Imagination is more important than knowledge... ]----------'
TomRK
(Andrew Carol) writes:
<<They did not trade yesterday on the stockmarket because of a "trade
imbalance", which means more people tried to sell than they could find buyers
for>>
How much do you want to bet the "more people" you refer to is Irving Gould?
Ricardo Hernandez
|> In article <1994Mar29.0...@rmece02.upr.clu.edu> ra...@rmece02.upr.clu.edu (Ricardo Hernandez) writes:
|> > If the reports about C='s latest finances are true....
|> >This is well indeed....
|> >
|> > >>>>>>>> THE END
|> >
|> > Unless of course, someone buys them.... I don't see that
|> >happening, except perhaps HP, since they were the ones who
|> >licensed the AA, although who knows if they'll just use it
|> >and 'thats it' :-(
|>
|> seen before. Come on guys, I'm not even an "Amiga Advocate"
|> anymore, but I'm more optimistic than some of y'all are...
So you finally admit it? THAT YOU HAVE BEEN CONVERTED TO
THE DARK SIDE? Ooops! That's for Saul Askips, not for you Skip ;-)
|>
|> Consider this:
|>
|> Atari reported something like a $22M loss on $8M of sales, yet
True, but like I posted in comp.sys.atari.advocacy, I can see
ATARI heading down the same way.... the only difference is that
they got 'their AAA out' ;-) Yep, they can still go away...
|> Time-Warner still bought another 2% share of stocks at a price
|> higher than the current value, pushing the stock price higher
|> and giving Atari quite a bit of cash! The same thing could easily
|> happen to C=, especially if the CD32 is as good as it promises
|> to be. HP, Sony, or whoever could easily buy lots of C= stock,
|> especially at the current rock-bottom pricing, creating the sort
|> of cash-influx that C= needs right now. Hell, it'd be great if
|> a company with some clue what to do in the USA bought them out
|> in part or in whole right now.
You are right Skip. Thing is, that's the 'miracle' people
would like to see, and one that I would prefer surprise me, because
I'm not that optimistic anymore :-(
The thing is too, that if C= was being bought, I doubt even
Irving would let go... it's kind of a C= curse... like
Marc Barrett in this group ;-)
|>
|> Skip Sauls
|> sk...@cy.cs.olemiss.edu
------------------------------------------------------------
Raist: "Changing platforms in 1 year"
PS: Thanks for the optimism Skip.... but I will wait for something
to surprise me.... I hate seeing such a nice machine with
excellent software going down the drains because of the incompetence
of those few on the top... and I am getting fed up with the
fact that even if the AAA comes out, it will be marketted with the
same amount of incompetence :-(
Ricardo Hernandez
|> Ricardo Hernandez (ra...@rmece02.upr.clu.edu) wrote:
|> : If the reports about C='s latest finances are true....
|> : This is well indeed....
|>
|> : >>>>>>>> THE END
|>
|> Dude, if you beleive everything you read on magazines, newspapers,
|> and even here in usenet,
I think my previous postings reflect that the sentence above
is not true of me ;-)
|> then by now you should be playing with
|> Mega Windows NT, your powerMac has 1,300 applications on the shelves
|> and it can run native 680X0 applications faster than a speedy bullet
|> among other things.
|>
|> Please wake up to the real world.
I did... and C= is in A REAL BAD SHAPE. IF THE ABOVE is true,
that the report was said like that in the Wall Street Journal, then
C= is on the very brink of non existance... One thing is the love
I have for the Amiga idea, and the fun I have had with the machine -
the other is the reality of Commodore...
|>
|> It's been _SIX_ years now since i first got a C64 and was hearing about
|> C='s death.
But seems like this is the first time that C= is on the very
edge of non existance...
|> Well ever since we got about 20 more amiga models, three
|> revisions of the chip set, cooler software and hardware, and the best
|> computer for the dollar you can buy. Plus, it's got a nice personality
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
/
For some markets this is true. For others it isn't.
|> that reminds me of the mighty 64...
'hacker', I suggest you wake up to the real world... thanks for
giving me that suggestion - I did.
|>
|> .---'\/\/\/`--- - - - - - - - - - - ---'\/\/\/`---.
|> | hac...@acs.bu.edu |
|> `----------[ Imagination is more important than knowledge... ]----------'
--
------------------------------------------------------
"The life of the little computer that could and the
little computer that could have been
could be over" - Raist regarding the Amiga
---> Opinions are my own, not of my college campus
sincl...@cobra.uni.edu
> : If the reports about C='s latest finances are true....
> : This is well indeed....
>
> : >>>>>>>> THE END
>
> Dude, if you beleive everything you read on magazines, newspapers,
> and even here in usenet, then by now you should be playing with
> Mega Windows NT, your powerMac has 1,300 applications on the shelves
> and it can run native 680X0 applications faster than a speedy bullet
> among other things.
>
> Please wake up to the real world.
>
You need to wake up!
> It's been _SIX_ years now since i first got a C64 and was hearing about
> C='s death. Well ever since we got about 20 more amiga models, three
> revisions of the chip set, cooler software and hardware, and the best
> computer for the dollar you can buy. Plus, it's got a nice personality
> that reminds me of the mighty 64...
Typical Amigadroid dream world. I suggest you read C= latest earnings report.
>
> .---'\/\/\/`--- - - - - - - - - - - ---'\/\/\/`---.
> | hac...@acs.bu.edu |
> `----------[ Imagination is more important than knowledge... ]----------'
Peter Sinclair-Day
University of Northern Iowa
Cedar Falls, Iowa USA
PowerMac - Does more, costs less
Nigel Sharp
Read point 4 and skip the rest if you're busy.
1) "My computer is better than yours" is juvenile and boring. I use a
wide variety of computers and each one has strengths. Doubtless I could
do all my life- and work-related things on a single platform if I had
to, with varying degrees of pain in different areas depending on the
machine, but I don't have to. Use the machine you like that does the job
you need and stop yelling at everybody else to agree with you.
2) The Amiga is a perfectly good machine with certain strong niche
advantages and a major liability called Commodore management.
3) "Doomsayers" are more correct today than before, due to C='s appalling
financial position. I find it truly amazing, and a little depressing,
that anyone with a good machine with a loyal if small following and a
good niche market (desktop video) can run a company into bankruptcy or
liquidation quite so quickly.
4) I frankly cannot see anyone bailing out C= unless they get to fire all
of the management and ban them from being involved in any further way
with the company. People depending on a bail-out are missing a
significant problem: the existing management have run down a viable
company in a staggeringly short time, and nobody bails out incompetents
(certainly not in the current economic climate).
5) If Commodore Europe is as strong as has been claimed, then they may be
able to arrange their own bail-out, purchasing the necessary pieces from
C= International. Banks like track records (see 4). Unless you work
at a bank and know what the current criteria are, you cannot make any
claims about the likelihood of any further financing.
6) If the Amiga does go away, which I would personally find sad, then the
things it does that people pay for will become available elsewhere, but
it's difficult to predict when. Companies depend on people to vote with
their money by buying their products (i.e. "right" or "wrong" are
[perhaps unfortunately] irrelevant - "saleable" is all that matters).
Products now to do video work on Macs or PCs are much more expensive and
much more buggy (it takes time, and only the Amiga video products have so
far had the time). If anyone knew of PC/Mac equivalents for the MANY
video Amiga products (Toaster, DPS PAR, Digital Broadcaster, etc., etc.)
at a competitive price, they'd certainly have been yelling by now.
Please note my point 1 about the suitability of different platforms
before you flame point 6 - I never say something is impossible with
anything, because human ingenuity still knows few bounds.
In other words, some things are more painful, but that's reality.
7) There are plenty of additional areas for a properly marketed Amiga -
doesn't anyone watch the "super friendly home computer" infomercials on
late night television, or am I the only insomniac who thinks a similar
shot with the A1200 (perhaps with a high density floppy by default) would
be thoroughly profitable ? The problem remains, as has been said, that
these ideas were needed two years ago before C= lost all financial
resources. Doesn't anyone remember the age-old maxim that you have to
spend money to make money ? Even the gold-diggers knew they needed a
grub-stake, and the reason start-ups (e.g. 3DO) survive without a profit
is that they're living off their initial investment until profits appear
- and they'll die quickly if profits don't appear. See point 4 about the
chance of C= getting a fresh grub-stake.
8) I wish I had the resources to buy and market the Amiga and CD32 lines.
Maybe liquidation and somebody to snap up the technology and factories
would be the best answer, but it probably won't be an existing company.
I would love to be wrong, but I join the "very sad, they're dead" crowd.
Neil J. McRae
: Ricardo Hernandez (ra...@rmece02.upr.clu.edu) wrote:
: : >>>>>>>> THE END
: Please wake up to the real world.
What world do you refer too? Mars? Commodore shares did not trade for 2
days.
: It's been _SIX_ years now since i first got a C64 and was hearing about
hehe. I got my first Amiga 7 years ago.
*ALL POSTERS NOTE HOW I DID NOT QUOTE HIS SIGNATURE*
regards,
Neil
--
ne...@ibmpcug.co.uk <Messages ONLY | Neil J. McRae
ne...@domino.demon.co.uk <Home Mail | 37 Kingsknowe Road North
n.m...@csu.napier.ac.uk <Anything | Edinburgh, EH14 2DE, United Kingdom
**Domino: There`s nothing you can do when you`re the next in line: Domino**
Bruce M. Franklin
>Geez, it's not like this same sort of information hasn't been
>seen before. Come on guys, I'm not even an "Amiga Advocate"
>anymore, but I'm more optimistic than some of y'all are...
>Consider this:
>Atari reported something like a $22M loss on $8M of sales, yet
>Time-Warner still bought another 2% share of stocks at a price
>higher than the current value, pushing the stock price higher
>and giving Atari quite a bit of cash! The same thing could easily
>happen to C=, especially if the CD32 is as good as it promises
>to be. HP, Sony, or whoever could easily buy lots of C= stock,
>especially at the current rock-bottom pricing, creating the sort
>of cash-influx that C= needs right now. Hell, it'd be great if
>a company with some clue what to do in the USA bought them out
>in part or in whole right now.
>Skip Sauls
>sk...@cy.cs.olemiss.edu
Atari is actually is somewhat better shape. Their new video game machine
(I forget the name of it) sold well in test markets and some companies
that said they's never develop for it are now getting interested.
The point is that Atari still has some potential left in them. Commodore
doesn't. Somebody might pickup the AGA chipset at fire sale prices and
use in a cable box. But that's it. Nobody else will be interested in
making Amigas.
As the saying goes: It aint over until the fat lady sings. Well, she's
about to sing.
______________________________________________________________
| |
| B r u c e M. F r a n k l i n |
| bru...@access.digex.com |
|______________________________________________________________|
Dave Mansell
bru...@access1.digex.net (Bruce M. Franklin) wrote
>
> sk...@cy.cs.olemiss.edu (Skip Sauls) writes:
>
> >Geez, it's not like this same sort of information hasn't been
> >seen before. Come on guys, I'm not even an "Amiga Advocate"
> >anymore, but I'm more optimistic than some of y'all are...
>
> >Consider this:
>
> >Atari reported something like a $22M loss on $8M of sales, yet
> >higher than the current value, pushing the stock price higher
> >and giving Atari quite a bit of cash! The same thing could easily
> >happen to C=, especially if the CD32 is as good as it promises
> >to be. HP, Sony, or whoever could easily buy lots of C= stock,
> >especially at the current rock-bottom pricing, creating the sort
> >of cash-influx that C= needs right now. Hell, it'd be great if
> >a company with some clue what to do in the USA bought them out
> >in part or in whole right now.
>
> >Skip Sauls
> >sk...@cy.cs.olemiss.edu
>
> Atari is actually is somewhat better shape. Their new video game
machine
> (I forget the name of it) sold well in test markets and some companies
> that said they's never develop for it are now getting interested.
This is also true of C=, The CD32 may have sold poorly in europe compared
with what C= needed to stay afloat, but it has sold in the region of
150,000 in the UK alone. This is hell of a lot more than Atari have sold
in Jaguars to date. It also has over 50 titles released, with more than
200 in development. The A1200 is the biggest selling computer in the UK.
Even this was not enough to rescue C=. Atari are in the same boat.
> The point is that Atari still has some potential left in them.
Commodore
> doesn't. Somebody might pickup the AGA chipset at fire sale prices and
> use in a cable box. But that's it. Nobody else will be interested in
> making Amigas.
The Amiga is as big a brand as Sega and Nintendo is some Markets. Atari
does not have that advantage. Both are in a precarious position.
> As the saying goes: It aint over until the fat lady sings. Well, she's
> about to sing.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> | |
> | B r u c e M. F r a n k l i n |
> | bru...@access.digex.com |
> |______________________________________________________________|
>
----------------------------------------------------------
Dave Mansell - Citadel Software Ltd, Cornwall, UK
FABRICATI DIEM PVNK - Motto of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch
----------------------------------------------------------
Jean-Pierre Farine
[...]
>
> Atari is actually is somewhat better shape.
> The point is that Atari still has some potential left in them.
Just for your informaion. According to ct magazine, April 1994, Atari closed
its German operation in Schwalbach on 3/1/94.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> | |
> | B r u c e M. F r a n k l i n |
> | bru...@access.digex.com |
> |______________________________________________________________|
>
--
Jean-Pierre Farine
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
e-mail: far...@decus.ch (used as a gateway to usenet)
X.400: c=ch,admd=arcom,prmd=grd,s=farine
FAX: +41 31 324 6121 Phone: +41 31 324 6110 / 13
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christian Liendo
: In article: 54118 of comp.sys.amiga.advocacy
: This is also true of C=, The CD32 may have sold poorly in europe compared
: with what C= needed to stay afloat, but it has sold in the region of
: 150,000 in the UK alone. This is hell of a lot more than Atari have sold
: in Jaguars to date. It also has over 50 titles released, with more than
: 200 in development. The A1200 is the biggest selling computer in the UK.
: Even this was not enough to rescue C=. Atari are in the same boat.
No.. Atari doesn't have the oustanding loans that Commodore has. CBM is
in a worse boat. They are seriously up the creek.. If they get out of this
anything is possible
Robert C. Merritt <rcmerrit>
And anothing thing, if Atari ever did get THAT bad off, Time Warner might
just buy them. They still own atari games corp. I don't thing Commodore has
a big brother to watch out for them..
1
Robert Merritt email: rob...@magnus1.com OR rcme...@cbda9.apgea.army.mil
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
my opinions are my own,|"Call me old fashion, but I believe | "Give me OS/2
not of my employer. | in the one true god. His name is | or give me DOS!"
| Orgo and he lives in this lake" | -me
| -- The State |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
