Dune II
Tribbeck J P
think that Dune II is going to be even bigger. I've just got the source
code to convert it, and it is **big**
They wouldn't send it on 720K floppies...
They wouldn't send it on 1.44Mb floppies...
They wouldn't send it on 20Mb flopticals...
They sent it on CD-ROM. The sources are over 170MBytes - now that's big
in my book.
In case any of you are wondering when it's going to be released, the
release date I've been given is 2nd of June (well, June II, if you
want to see it in that way) :-)
Cheers,
Jason Tribbeck.
Tim Warner
: In case any of you are wondering when it's going to be released, the
: release date I've been given is 2nd of June (well, June II, if you
: want to see it in that way) :-)
I'd have thought that they would have wanted it released for the show?
Cheers
Tim.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh no! What the smeggin' smegs he smeggin done!
Dave Lister (in Rimmers Body) - Bodyswap
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Voisey
>In case any of you are wondering when it's going to be released, the
>release date I've been given is 2nd of June (well, June II, if you
>want to see it in that way) :-)
. just as Simon the Sourcerer was going to be released before Christmas 93?
(Maybe that's why you don't state _which_ June).
Bob
--
Go away, else I shall taunt you a second time.
b...@cryton.demon.co.uk vox+44(749)670058 fax+44(749)670809 dat+44(749)670030
ucs4010
: Cheers,
: Jason Tribbeck.
Oh yes!!! You mean it's coming out on the Arc!!!! That June II release...
is that Arc release date?
Hmm... here's hoping...
Andrew Davidson
Robert Templeman
worms?. If so then it sounds AWESOME! & i'm as good as owning a cd-rom drive
for june-II!
Steven Kramer - multitalent
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From: tr...@essex.ac.uk (Tribbeck J P)
Date: 18 Feb 94 09:18:51 GMT
Reply-To: tr...@essex.ac.uk
Sender: ne...@sersun1.essex.ac.uk
References: <1994Feb6.2...@black.ox.ac.uk>
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Cheers,
Jason Tribbeck.
And how will the (hopefully) finished game be distributed?
Are we supposed to buy a CDROM player as well, or do we get it for free with
the game (which will undoubtedly be very expensive anyway) ?
Steven
Simon Wilkinson
> In article <16...@sersun1.essex.ac.uk> tr...@essex.ac.uk (Tribbeck J P) writes:
> They sent it on CD-ROM. The sources are over 170MBytes - now that's big
> in my book.
>
>
> And how will the (hopefully) finished game be distributed?
> Are we supposed to buy a CDROM player as well, or do we get it for free with
> the game (which will undoubtedly be very expensive anyway) ?
>
> Steven
>
As Jason says, this is just the source file size. If this is pure C source then
it should decreasing in size quite dramatically following compliation. Coupled with
a good compression algorithm for the data, it might be possible to reduce the
size of the distribution version to something more reasonable (Please, please, pretty
please - I can't afford a CD-Rom drive).
Simon
James Ponder
> If any of you think that Simon the Sourceror is a large game, then I
> think that Dune II is going to be even bigger. I've just got the source
> code to convert it, and it is **big**
> Cheers,
> Jason Tribbeck.
> And how will the (hopefully) finished game be distributed?
> Are we supposed to buy a CDROM player as well, or do we get it for free with
> the game (which will undoubtedly be very expensive anyway) ?
Anybody who has seen James Pond II must be thinking that Dune II will be
jerky and horrible by now... And they would probably be right... :)
Me? Flame?
Best wishes, James
***************************************************************************
** James Ponder of DoggySoft (j...@doggysft.demon.co.uk), fax: 0494 675878 **
** DoggySoft, Furzefield House, Furzefield Road, Beaconsfield, Bucks. UK **
** A fool and his money are soon partying... **
Rob Wheeler
: In article <KRAMER.94F...@ampere.phys.uva.nl>
: Anybody who has seen James Pond II must be thinking that Dune II will be
: jerky and horrible by now... And they would probably be right... :)
depends on the source really,
after all the duneII source comes from a version for a computer
not a toy =8*)
Rob.
===========================================================
e-mail me (Rob Wheeler) at: whe...@compsci.bristol.ac.uk
find me on the irc as larsdahl (usually #england)
#include <std.disclaimer> my opinions etc...
I like having a machine called 'elvis' on the network because that way, I
can say 'ping elvis' and have it come back with 'elvis is alive'."
James Ponder
> depends on the source really,
> after all the duneII source comes from a version for a computer
> not a toy =8*)
You're defending Mr Tribbeck's "attempt" at converting James Pond II,
because the original source code wasn't very good? I can't see it myself,
the whole game has the feel of being badly programmed and things like the
raster bars are inexcusable. You can't compare the Amiga and the Archimedes
versions of James Pond II, one is good, one is not-so-good(!)... Which one?
Hmmm...
Best wishes, James
PS. Sorry about the flame, I guess I should stop now, I bet there are people
out there who love the conversion of James Pond II and therefore I deserve
lots of flaming... maybe...
Tim Warner
: In article <CLooM...@info.bris.ac.uk> wheeler@danno "Rob Wheeler" writes:
: > depends on the source really,
: > after all the duneII source comes from a version for a computer
: > not a toy =8*)
JP 2 was not really a very good conversion. Not having seen the A1200 version
I can't say, but the MD version is certainly much better than the arc version
: You're defending Mr Tribbeck's "attempt" at converting James Pond II,
: because the original source code wasn't very good? I can't see it myself,
: the whole game has the feel of being badly programmed and things like the
: raster bars are inexcusable. You can't compare the Amiga and the Archimedes
: versions of James Pond II, one is good, one is not-so-good(!)... Which one?
: Hmmm...
Should have just got rid of the raster bars to get rid of that flickering.
Cheers
Tim.
Tribbeck J P
:>I'd have thought that they would have wanted it released for the show?
:>
Might be demoed for the show...
Cheers,
Jason Tribbeck.
Tribbeck J P
:>.. just as Simon the Sourcerer was going to be released before Christmas 93?
Well, on the first day of the show, it was "Before Christmas", on the second day it
became "In the new year", and on the third day of the AW show it was "In January".
Well, we can't be perfect, can we?
:>(Maybe that's why you don't state _which_ June).
Damn - noticed my little ploy...
Tribbeck J P
:>is this one of the texture mapped 3-d games?, is it based on Dune as in sand-
:>worms?. If so then it sounds AWESOME! & i'm as good as owning a cd-rom drive
:>for june-II!
1) No, it's not a texture-mapped 3d game. It's a action/strategy game, very loosely
like SimCity, execpt there's battles going on, and you have upto 3 (computer
controlled) opponents.
2) Yes, it is Dune as in SandWorms
3) The CDRom version won't be coming out until later in the year. The first version
will probably be a HD only installable version, with a floppy version a month later.
Give a couple of months breather, and then the CDRom version...
Cheers,
Jason Tribbeck.
PS. If c.s.a.g. has been setup, then I apologise for this intrusion (and any more I
make while reading this news section).
Tribbeck J P
If you've seen the Amiga version of Robocod, then you'll notice that it is also jerky
but I wouldn't go as far as saying it's horrible. The reason for this is that it's a
source-conversion, not a look-and-feel conversion. Also, the source code wasn't
very well optimised, and, due to time pressures, the ARM code wasn't well optimised
either.
I agree that the demo was pretty crap, tho'
Cheers,
Jason Tribbeck.
PS. It is most unwise for one company to openly slag off other companies. It can lead
to dangerous effects, such as lawers letters being sent from A to B.
I would like to say that I have never knowingly flamed any company, product or person,
and I never intend to do so.
I used think that the Acorn market was a "friendly" one, with cooperation between
different companies. Until some irresponsible "holyier-than-thou" individuals hit
the scene...
Tribbeck J P
:>As Jason says, this is just the source file size. If this is pure C source then
:>it should decreasing in size quite dramatically following compliation. Coupled with
:>a good compression algorithm for the data, it might be possible to reduce the
:>size of the distribution version to something more reasonable (Please, please, pretty
:>please - I can't afford a CD-Rom drive).
Well, there were several copies of (different format) graphics on the disc, a full copy
of the game, a few faxes, amiga conversion queries, and two copies of the source,
so it shouldn't be on more than 10x720K discs. 1.44Meg discs may be used if the user
wants...
Cheers,
Jason Tribbeck.
Flossie
|> In article <2kl6mu$q...@mercury.dur.ac.uk>,
|> A G Jackson <A.G.J...@durham.ac.uk> writes:
|> >
|> >Does someone want to say exactly what was wrong with Robocod, rather than just
|> >saying 'It wasn't very good', and 'Jason Tribbeck is the Antichrist' and other
|> >such comments. Personally I thought the playable demo on the Acorn Computing
|> >coverdisk was a pretty good conversion.
|> >[..]
|>
|> The playable demo on the Acorn Computing cover disc was terrible! It jerked
|> and shuddered (even on an ARM 3) and it was impossible to complete some of
|> the levels. Also none of the objects - such as the blocks - were active. All
|> in all I think it was disgusting that AC dared to put it on their cover disc
|> at all. Even if I had originally intended to buy the game I would _never_ in
|> a million years have bought it having seen that pathetic attempt.
|>
|> I have not played the actual game; these comments apply to the demo only.
|>
Well I can't see anything "hideously" unplayable about Robocod - its about the
only game I play at the moment - but if you want gripes then those that I have
are minor :
The copper (raster) bars flicker occasionaly - this is a sync'ing problem and
difficult to sort out unless you waste lots of processor time checking everything
(which defeats the purpose) - not exactly a fatal flaw though! (ok - so I have
an ARM3 A3k, maybe a basic A310 would have problems... so the code should detect
this and switch out such features in the same way as checking if adaquate memory
is availiable for things like sound effects / caching of levels etc (not that
robocod does though))
You can't skip levels (very very frustrating when you die suddenly after 30mins)
The up/down keys are bizarrely placed!
You occasionaly die for no apparent reason (standing in the wrong place on a lift
in a certain level springs to mind - on the other hand, as I haven't sussed a way
of doing the level without dying to reset the same lift...)
... however, I still think its a good game.
- oh yes, I saw a version on some console that had swirling clouds etc in the
background as well - personally, I think its better without it!
---- however, the general debate about games mentioned a few things ---
I don't have any problem with making a game only practical on a hard disc - even
if you have limited HD space, you only ever play a few games at a time anyway.
I'll probably generate no end of complaints from people with just a floppy - but
HD's are constantly getting cheaper - even if the prices charged from archie
suppliers are about twice what you would pay from anyone else (flick through
computer shopper or something similar after having got a SCSI or IDE interface)
along these lines - how about some Lucas conversions - especially Star Wars?
Might be trouble getting them to consider such a tiny market as worth licencing
to, but its got to be worth a try - there are some very good games which look
really horrible on a PC due to their square pixels... (but with a 20" monitor
and a 66MHz 486 you soon forget this...)
..similarly - saveable high score tables! What is the point a high score table
if it takes you 30 mins to play a game, then you switch it off? Also...why
enter names as though your only means of entry is a joystick?
...along these lines of arcade emulation - "3 credits" - why bother? Why not just
ask if they want to continue - if you want to have a credits idea (for some
strange and twisted reason) do it like (was it Ballarena?) and make 'em press
"INSERT" :-)
"Original" arc games - forget it. Concentrate on converting from other platforms
where they have been developed with multi-million pound budgets, and preferably
don't just port, but improve where possible/sensible (amiga-sized shrunken
screens annoy me, as does limited sound)
There's just _no way_ a team of, however inspired and self sacrificing, can
produce a game that really is better than the _best_ of those developed on other
platforms. The archie "community" needs to face up to the fact that they have
been left behind, both technically and in potential to expand. 5 years ago it
could have been a different story - if acorn hadn't dissapeared up its own arse
in chasing the education/education-related home markets and concentrated on
producing machines that were at the cutting edge - they could have produced
decent UNIX workstations at a cheap price - how many uni's in the UK have rooms
full of Sun's? When the ARM-2 first came out it was unbeatable - now, even the
ARM7 series is inadaquate and for all the hype about new machines from acorn,
I can't see them being a serious contender against high-powered PC's, Mac's, or
the bottom-end Sun's and Silicon Graphics machines (to name but a few).
Backward compatibility is what has been holding up the PC for years (whilst
paradoxically ensuring its success) - the arch sould ditch its Beeb and early
arch heritage and instead be capable of running s/w more suitable for open
platforms or other architectures (the filer being the first thing to go, closly
followed by the VIDC and MEMC!)
....ooops, I've got a little carried away and distracted there : please direct
all fanatical flames into any passing metal container...
...anyway, games - hmmm, conversions - how about a bit quicker? The average life-
span of a game on most game platforms is between 2 and 6 months, so why wait
2-3 years considering how people like Krisalis bost how quickly they can do the
conversion? The licence owner isn't going to earn any more from the original
platforms, and the arch owners are more likely to buy games if they have
just seen them on a friend's Sega or in the arcades or whatever...
(BTW - when I was at school many moons ago, some friends converted parts of
Xenon-II and probably could have done the lot if there had been sufficient
support (hi guys...I know you're out there...you know who you are...) - so why
was there a 4/5 year wait before we finally got it? I had a amiga-owning friend
in hysterics when he saw it - and _how long_ have we been waiting for Lemmings II
to be ported over? 2 years?)
Oh well, enough ramblings, it probably won't get out knowing our dodgy system...
Flossie the sheep (who, despite the above, still likes the Arc).
A G Jackson
|> James Ponder (j...@doggysft.demon.co.uk) wrote:
|> : In article <CLooM...@info.bris.ac.uk> wheeler@danno "Rob Wheeler" writes:
|>
|> : > depends on the source really,
|> : > after all the duneII source comes from a version for a computer
|> : > not a toy =8*)
|>
|> JP 2 was not really a very good conversion. Not having seen the A1200 version
|> I can't say, but the MD version is certainly much better than the arc version
Does someone want to say exactly what was wrong with Robocod, rather than just
saying 'It wasn't very good', and 'Jason Tribbeck is the Antichrist' and other
such comments. Personally I thought the playable demo on the Acorn Computing
coverdisk was a pretty good conversion. I've only seen the full game briefly
once, but again it looked good. I couldn't see any problem with the raster bars,
and the gameplay seemed almost identical to that on the Amiga. Except the
keyboard was nicer...
|> : You're defending Mr Tribbeck's "attempt" at converting James Pond II,
|> : because the original source code wasn't very good? I can't see it myself,
|> : the whole game has the feel of being badly programmed and things like the
|> : raster bars are inexcusable. You can't compare the Amiga and the Archimedes
|> : versions of James Pond II, one is good, one is not-so-good(!)... Which one?
|> : Hmmm...
|>
|> Should have just got rid of the raster bars to get rid of that flickering.
I could be wrong, but isn't there an option to play it without the raster bars?
Adrian
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Adrian Jackson | a.g.j...@durham.ac.uk | 27 North Bailey, DURHAM |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Vote YES for comp.sys.acorn.games... |
| ...you know it makes sense. |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Gareth Moore
>saying 'It wasn't very good', and 'Jason Tribbeck is the Antichrist' and other
>such comments. Personally I thought the playable demo on the Acorn Computing
>coverdisk was a pretty good conversion.
The playable demo on the Acorn Computing cover disc was terrible! It jerked
and shuddered (even on an ARM 3) and it was impossible to complete some of
the levels. Also none of the objects - such as the blocks - were active. All
in all I think it was disgusting that AC dared to put it on their cover disc
at all. Even if I had originally intended to buy the game I would _never_ in
a million years have bought it having seen that pathetic attempt.
I have not played the actual game; these comments apply to the demo only.
Gareth
--
Gareth Moore gar...@dcs.warwick.ac.uk
or g.l....@csv.warwick.ac.uk
ucs4010
: is this one of the texture mapped 3-d games?, is it based on Dune as in sand-
: worms?. If so then it sounds AWESOME! & i'm as good as owning a cd-rom drive
for june-II!
James Ponder
A.G.J...@durham.ac.uk "A G Jackson" writes:
> Does someone want to say exactly what was wrong with Robocod, rather than just
> saying 'It wasn't very good', and 'Jason Tribbeck is the Antichrist' and other
> such comments. Personally I thought the playable demo on the Acorn Computing
> coverdisk was a pretty good conversion. I've only seen the full game briefly
> once, but again it looked good. I couldn't see any problem with the raster bars,>
> and the gameplay seemed almost identical to that on the Amiga. Except the
> keyboard was nicer...
I'm surprised you didn't notice anything wrong with the demo version on the
Acorn Computing cover disc. I'm sure many would agree that the scrolling on
Robocod is the jerkiest this side of push-scrolling, despite the fact that it
is in a low-resolution 16 colour mode, which is very difficult to do,
especially as most of the sprites in Robocod are not even masked.
The raster bars are not done properly, unlike ZoolPatch which does it the
proper way, the result being that the raster bars flicker and move when you
jump (jumping really does make you think you are on a spectrum playing a game
with push-scrolling!).
Robocod also crashes periodically when you reach around the 7th level.
There seems to have been a conspiracy in all the Archimedes magazines, all
the reviews, previews and even the adverts by GamesWare, have come from the
Amiga version. Screen shots also come from the Amiga version showing full
colour backdrops, instead we Archimedes owners get flickery raster bars.
GamesWare for some reason didn't want to provide the magazines with an
Archimedes version so instead the Amiga version was reviewed, why is this?
All this just makes you feel sorry for the people who bought a copy of
Robocod at the Acorn World '93 show, as all the hype from the magazines
made it an irresistible buy by the average punter.
Best wishes, James
PS. If any of what I've said is wrong, or has been updated in a later
version, sorry. All information is based on what I have seen or
heard, and could be wrong.
***************************************************************************
** James Ponder of DoggySoft (j...@doggysft.demon.co.uk), fax: 0494 675878 **
** DoggySoft, Furzefield House, Furzefield Road, Beaconsfield, Bucks. UK **
** Robocod..."The only winning move is not to play" - Joshua in Wargames **
Tim Warner
: In article <CLq75...@info.bris.ac.uk>, cs2036@titus (Tim Warner) writes:
*** Stuff deleted to save repeating myself ***
: Does someone want to say exactly what was wrong with Robocod, rather than just
: saying 'It wasn't very good', and 'Jason Tribbeck is the Antichrist' and other
: such comments. Personally I thought the playable demo on the Acorn Computing
: coverdisk was a pretty good conversion. I've only seen the full game briefly
: once, but again it looked good. I couldn't see any problem with the raster bars,
: and the gameplay seemed almost identical to that on the Amiga. Except the
: keyboard was nicer...
When a screen flickers so violently that it gives you a headache, you
really do start to wonder.....
: |> Should have just got rid of the raster bars to get rid of that flickering.
: I could be wrong, but isn't there an option to play it without the raster bars?
Well, must just ahve missed that one.....
Cheers
Tim.
Glenn Pegden
Tribbeck J P
:>: |> Should have just got rid of the raster bars to get rid of that flickering.
:>
:>: I could be wrong, but isn't there an option to play it without the raster bars?
:>
:>Well, must just ahve missed that one.....
IF you've bought the original, then you've got a sheet of paper telling you how to
do that. For those of you who've copied it :-)
Press F1 to redefine the keys
Press F2 to change some of the options
Press F12 during the game to pause
Press F11 during a pause to un-pause
Pay me my royalty...
Cheers,
Jason Tribbeck.
PS. Cheers, A.G.Jackson for helping me! At last, someone I can trust!!!!! :-)
Philip George
>In producing demos, there are a number of factors that must be taken into consideration
>Time is the major one. The demo wasn't released as a "demo", just as a "work in
>progress" demo, showing how far we had got by then. GYFR
Maybe. I didn't see the words 'work in progress' mentioned anywhere in the
mag. Rather, I seem to remember it saying 'an exclusive demo of Robocod'. I
reckon it would make good commercial sense to wait until you've got enough of
the game finished before sending stuff to magazines. I know they've got a
3-month submissions deadline (which is utterly stupid - newspapers have a mere
10-hour deadline), but people see demos as a small taste of a game, and would
(I would've thought) be adversely affected by bad demos.
.... but don't quote me on that! (I'm not a psychologist)
Phil.
Nick Bannon
> TO ALL THOSE WHO THOUGHT THE DEMO OF JAMES POND II - ROBOCOD WAS CRAP
> I agree - buy the game :-)
> Cheers,
> Jason Tribbeck.
> In producing demos, there are a number of factors that must be taken into consideration
> Time is the major one. The demo wasn't released as a "demo", just as a "work in
> progress" demo, showing how far we had got by then. GYFR
OK, fair enough. There were problems producing a good demo at the time.
What is the problem with producing _another_, updated, better demo? As
it is, I think the current demo can only be losing potential custom. For
my part, there was nothing in the demo that I consider is worth paying
for.
Nick. (who finally managed to buy Lemmings ][ just the other day, and is
enjoying it _immensely_)
Tribbeck J P
:>Maybe. I didn't see the words 'work in progress' mentioned anywhere in the
:>mag. Rather, I seem to remember it saying 'an exclusive demo of Robocod'.
I'm pretty sure it did, but somewhere in small text (possibly)...
:> I
:>reckon it would make good commercial sense to wait until you've got enough of
:>the game finished before sending stuff to magazines.
I agree completely, but if you're told "Hey, jase, can you get a demo done by this
Friday. They've got the discs printed, so you can't get out of it", your sorta feel
compelled to do something. As it was, it was a week overdue. The original demo was
**a lot** worse than the one in the mag - if that's possible :-)
:> .... but don't quote me on that! (I'm not a psychologist)
I know.
Some people **did** buy the game even after the demo. I don't know why. Find him and
ask him :-)
Cheers,
Jason Tribbeck.