Linux for RISC-OS
O.A.Zevenboom
Does anybody know if there is or will be/ or if someone porting a Linux-system for Acorn Archimedes/RISC PC computers?
Any other(?!) unix-like system is interesting too.
Maybe this one is part of the FAQ, but I do not know. I'am sorry.
Michael Williams
>
>Does anybody know if there is or will be/ or if someone porting a Linux-system for Acorn Archimedes/RISC PC computers?
>Any other(?!) unix-like system is interesting too.
There are three Unix ports (that I know of) going on. Firstly there is
a port of BSD Lite called Arc[h]BSD (being done by Gary Palmer, Simon
Proven, Simon Lockhart et al); secondly a port of FreeBSD for the Risc
PC called RiscBSD (being done by Nut, Manar Hussain et al); and
finally a port of Linux being done by someone I don't know.
I'm not sure how RiscBSD is coming along, but ArcBSD appears to be
getting there, and Linux is apparently working on A5000s (though this
appears to be an uncorroborated report by the developer).
It is the ArcBSD team's aim to develop Arc and Risc PC versions in
parallel; the RiscBSD team aim to get a Risc PC Unix working, and then
go back and do the Arc version; and the Linux port apparently works on
A5000 hardware, with Arc versions coming - no mention of Risc PC.
(From a technical point of view Risc PC v. Arc is quite a large
change, since the kernel programmer's view of the two machines is very
different. The former has 32-bit address spaces [if you want them],
abort modes, page tables and the like; the latter has a "volatile"
supervisor mode, the MEMC and such. The Arc differs from the A5000
presumably in the controllers used for various chunks of hardware.
Code written for the PC may be easier to port to the A5000/Risc PC
since they use a disc controller taken from the PC world, but compared
to the difficulties of getting processes to work I can't see this
being much of an advantage.)
I also believe that both the BSD ports are getting help (in the form
of technical information) from Acorn in some form or another.
Mike.
______________________________________________________________________________
\ ^ / Michael Williams "Some men are heterosexual Some men are homosexual
|\/|\/\ mi...@nsict.org Some men are bisexual. Some men don't think about
| |(__) Cambridge, U.K. sex at all. They become lawyers" -- Woody Allen
Tom Hughes
> It is the ArcBSD team's aim to develop Arc and Risc PC versions in
> parallel; the RiscBSD team aim to get a Risc PC Unix working, and then
> go back and do the Arc version; and the Linux port apparently works on
> A5000 hardware, with Arc versions coming - no mention of Risc PC.
The Linux port does indeed work on A5000 hardware (thats what its developer
is using anyway). I understand that its coming along quite nicely, but I
havn't actually seen it...
Tom
--
Tom Hughes (t...@compton.demon.co.uk)
5 Lampits, Hoddesdon, Herts EN11 8EH
... Life. Hate it, or ignore it. You can't like it.
Gary Palmer
> There are three Unix ports (that I know of) going on.
> Firstly there is a port of BSD Lite called Arc[h]BSD (being
> done by Gary Palmer, Simon Proven, Simon Lockhart et al);
> secondly a port of FreeBSD for the Risc PC called RiscBSD
> (being done by Nut, Manar Hussain et al); and finally a port
> of Linux being done by someone I don't know.
surprisingly stable) source code, abailable from ftp.freebsd.org (ahem).
RiscBSD, the last I heard, was using NetBSD 1.0 Beta, available from
somewhere else (I don't know offhand). Further info available if you want.
(Like what's the difference between NetBSD & FreeBSD)
I think I may have commented in the past (and I think that the
archbsd-hackers info still does say) that ArchBSD was going to be
4.4BSD-Lite based. Then we dug into the code. USL nicked all the major bits,
including bits of the TTY system & some of the more major support for doing
disc I/O! It seemed that we will be better off 'leaning' on an existing PC
port, and the way things turned out we went with FreeBSD, and some others
went with NetBSD (the actual reasons are a lot more complicated and are not
at all clear, but this is the most easily understood form!)
> I'm not sure how RiscBSD is coming along, but ArcBSD appears
> to be getting there, and Linux is apparently working on
> A5000s (though this appears to be an uncorroborated report
> by the developer).
statements British Rail used to make! As for how fast we (ArchBSD) are
progressing, we hope to have 'shells' running in the next couple of weeks.
Anyone from RiscBSD care to update on how they are doing? I haven't heard
anything for a bit.
> It is the ArcBSD team's aim to develop Arc and Risc PC
> versions in parallel; the RiscBSD team aim to get a Risc PC
> Unix working, and then go back and do the Arc version;
flame fest that I'm still smarting from. The ArchBSD team will parallel
develop for the RPC when enough of the core get machines in their bedrooms.
I think there is still more demand than supply, so this may be a while :-(
RiscBSD said that they will concentrate exclusively on the RiscPC, but if
someone wants to get it working on the older machines, they are welcome to.
> (From a technical point of view Risc PC v. Arc is quite a
> large change, since the kernel programmer's view of the two
> machines is very different.
> Code
> written for the PC may be easier to port to the A5000/Risc
> PC since they use a disc controller taken from the PC world,
> but compared to the difficulties of getting processes to
> work I can't see this being much of an advantage.)
especially between the A5k and, err, pre-A5k machines. Fortunately, all that
is needed is more device drivers. The RiscPC support will be the fun bit,
but the other way round. Most device drivers for expansion cards should work
out of the box, but the rest of the kernel needs changing! (mainly VM
support & exception handling)
Hope this proves helpful
Yours
Gary Palmer
--
FreeBSD & ArchBSD core member
ArchBSD - 4.4 BSD Unix for the Acorn RISC Platforms
E-Mail: ga...@palmer.demon.co.uk, gpa...@freebsd.org
Andy Mell
: There are three Unix ports (that I know of) going on. Firstly there is
: a port of BSD Lite called Arc[h]BSD (being done by Gary Palmer, Simon
: Proven, Simon Lockhart et al); secondly a port of FreeBSD for the Risc
: PC called RiscBSD (being done by Nut, Manar Hussain et al); and
: finally a port of Linux being done by someone I don't know.
ArcBSD is actually FreeBSD 2.0 on the PC (the BSD 4.4 lite/FreeBSD 1.0 merge)
and RiscBSD is purportedly a port of NetBSD from the PC.
I think its pretty obvious from what I can see that ArcBSD is a lot further
along than this RiscBSD...
: It is the ArcBSD team's aim to develop Arc and Risc PC versions in
: parallel; the RiscBSD team aim to get a Risc PC Unix working, and then
: go back and do the Arc version;
It seems all very silly to me that there are three different ports of unix,
but for reasons known only to themselves, the RiscBSD people dont seem to
be very interested in getting it running on the older Arcs - thats where all
the potential users are - I wouldnt buy a RiscPC to run unix on, I'd buy a PC,
unless I had an old Arc to run it on. It seems somewhat wasteful in time and
effort to do two ports.
Anyway, this has all been discussed to death in another forum ;-)
Andy
Michael Williams
>Michael Williams (mi...@nsict.org) wrote:
>: Firstly there is
>: a port of BSD Lite called Arc[h]BSD [...]; secondly a port of FreeBSD for
>: the Risc PC called RiscBSD
>
>and RiscBSD is purportedly a port of NetBSD from the PC.
Whoops. Obviously my brain has been messed up by the flu. Given the
number of times people have explained this to me (with, or without an
incomprehensible accent), you'd have thought I could remember it...
>I think its pretty obvious from what I can see that ArcBSD is a lot further
>along than this RiscBSD...
This is the impression I get. From what I've heard RiscBSD is being
bogged down by the too-many-cooks syndrome.
>: It is the ArcBSD team's aim to develop Arc and Risc PC versions in
>: parallel; the RiscBSD team aim to get a Risc PC Unix working, and then
>: go back and do the Arc version;
>
>It seems all very silly to me that there are three different ports of unix,
>but for reasons known only to themselves, the RiscBSD people dont seem to
>be very interested in getting it running on the older Arcs - thats where all
>the potential users are - I wouldnt buy a RiscPC to run unix on, I'd buy a PC,
>unless I had an old Arc to run it on. It seems somewhat wasteful in time and
>effort to do two ports.
You wouldn't - but others might. A Risc PC that can run a native Unix
is more attractive than one that doesn't. If you were going to buy one
anyway, then so much the better. Whichever gets there first, a free
Unix for the RPC would definitely be a gold star for Acorn. Several
Unices can only improve things, IMHO.
Having Linux (basically Sys V) and BSD ports makes sense for the same
reasons that it makes sense on the PC. The only problem on the PC is
that one has one, and the other has sunk into obscurity. Hopefully the
same won't happen on the arc.
Having two BSD ports makes less sense, although the two groups also
appear to be slightly competitive (in a similar way to Motorola and
Intel being slightly competitive 8-). As a result the loss from not
having a combined effort (if there is one - too-many-cooks again) will
probably be made up by the competitive element speeding things along.
I wait with baited breath.
Mike.
____________________________________________________________________________
\ x / Michael Williams Advanced RISC Machines Limited
|\/|\/\ mwil...@armltd.co.uk Fulbourn Road, Cambridge, CB1 4JN, UK
| |(__)"I might well think that Matti, ARM Ltd. couldn't possibly comment."
Peter Radcliffe
> s98...@dutiws.twi.tudelft.nl (O.A.Zevenboom) writes:
>>
>>Does anybody know if there is or will be/ or if someone porting a Linux-system for Acorn Archimedes/RISC PC computers?
>>Any other(?!) unix-like system is interesting too.
>
>There are three Unix ports (that I know of) going on. Firstly there is
>a port of BSD Lite called Arc[h]BSD (being done by Gary Palmer, Simon
>Proven, Simon Lockhart et al); secondly a port of FreeBSD for the Risc
>PC called RiscBSD (being done by Nut, Manar Hussain et al); and
>finally a port of Linux being done by someone I don't know.
>
>I'm not sure how RiscBSD is coming along, but ArcBSD appears to be
>getting there, and Linux is apparently working on A5000s (though this
>appears to be an uncorroborated report by the developer).
Any chance of some more info on this one ?
Any idea how long a release of Linux for an A5000 might take ?
(If it has already been released, then where ?)
Peter.
D.R. de Lacey
> Firstly there is a port of BSD Lite called Arc[h]BSD (being
> done by Gary Palmer, Simon Proven, Simon Lockhart et al);
> secondly a port of FreeBSD for the Risc PC called RiscBSD
> (being done by Nut, Manar Hussain et al); and finally a port
> of Linux being done by someone I don't know.
For the Linux port's progress, see http://www.ph.kcl.ac.uk/~amb/linux.html
It was due to be released in the summer but there have been ethernet problems.
My A5000 is waiting with bated breath!
Douglas de Lacey, Cambridge UK.
Thomas Goseberg [Inf]
>I also believe that both the BSD ports are getting help (in the form
>of technical information) from Acorn in some form or another.
Sound good. I imagine that one year ago Acorn would have denied the
existence of good software developers outside Acorn. But they're getting
more and more open during the last time, it seems. A nice move towards
the right direction.
Thomas
Michael Williams
>For the Linux port's progress, see http://www.ph.kcl.ac.uk/~amb/linux.html
>It was due to be released in the summer but there have been ethernet problems.
>My A5000 is waiting with bated breath!
I think this home page is for the Linux on the PC card. There is apparently
a separate Linux for the native A5000.
u01ams
: > There are three Unix ports (that I know of) going on.
Err hang on a mo' - \this\ port that he meant I assume is the native
ARM linux port someone is doing not the one based on the second processor.
(Last I looked it was a bit wild - for that read - moderately scary ;-)
So that would make four?
RiscBSD (thanks but I dont think you'll get past the post first ..)
ArchBSD (go simes! go gary! ;)
ArchLinux (your a nutter - round of applause for getting this far without any
help from anyone else)
ArchLinux/PC card (hurrah! any chance of freebsd patches too? <grin>)
: Douglas de Lacey, Cambridge UK.
al
Paul L. Allen
michael....@armltd.co.uk (Michael Williams) writes:
> I wait with baited breath.
Mike, what do you bait your breath with and what do you hope to catch?
Enquiring minds want to know.
I wait with bated breath...
--Paul
Michael Williams
As Piers would say: "Erk!".
8-)
Mike.
(And to think the fools were daft enough to give me a GCSE (or two) in
English. Sometimes our education system really worrys me.)
Frank Lancaster
RiscBSD - actually the name isn't finalised yet, as it is one of least
important matters.
As a member of the team of people working on the port of NetBSD to the
Risc PC, I must state that I think we will have a working system in
early 95. The main reasons for this are: we are cross-developing the
Risc PC version of NetBSD on other UNIX systems. We have a remote debugger
for source-code debugging of the kernel. We have people with in-depth
knowledge of NetBSD and other UNIXes, we have other people with in-depth
knowledge of the Risc PC hardware. The team as it stands has no "ego"
problems and some of us are working very hard at the moment on the port.
Normally I wouldn't have made any statements about the port before there
was something to distribute. But several people where critizing the decision
to concentrate work on the Risc PC and somehow thought it was somehow
indecent of us to refuse to merge with the ArchBSD team.
I actually find it quite good that there are two teams working on a BSD
for Acorn machines. And I hope that we will share device driver code and
other stuff (basically the source code of both projects will be released
into the public domain, so the best source code will probably be used
if it can be shared).
-- Frank Lancaster, f...@tools.de
Speaking for himself and neither for Tools GmbH, nor the RiscBSD team
Gary Palmer
> RiscBSD (thanks but I dont think you'll get past the post first ..)
> ArchBSD (go simes! go gary! ;)
> ArchLinux (your a nutter - round of applause for getting this far
> without any help from anyone else)
out there who love it!
> ArchLinux/PC card (hurrah! any chance of freebsd patches too? <grin>)
at it. Once FreeBSD 2.0 is out & stable, the PC folks will be willing to
help. Think of it - the first freeware parallel OS for Acorn m/c's is based
on a PC development. Then again, maybe not :-)
Gary
--
FreeBSD & ArchBSD core member
E-Mail: ga...@palmer.demon.co.uk, gpa...@freebsd.org
Mark D Smith
>It was due to be released in the summer but there have been ethernet problems.
>My A5000 is waiting with bated breath!
>
It's just a shame I have no WWW browser for my Risc PC - I will have to take
a trip to the computer centre to check this out. [hint:- wants Mosaic Port
:-)]
I willing to beta test any unix ports on my internetted Risc PC, should that
be required.
Mark.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Mark D. Smith - Microelectronics Student, Acorn Software Developer & |
| Product Development Officer for The ARM Club. |
| Email ee91...@brunel.ac.uk, ma...@nucleus.demon.co.uk |
| |
| Email sof...@nucleus.demon.co.uk for details of The ARM Club products |
Olly Betts
Michael Williams <mi...@nsict.org> wrote:
>(And to think the fools were daft enough to give me a GCSE (or two) in
>English. Sometimes our education system really worrys me.)
Not your day, is it?
Olly
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Malcolm Fraser
[hack a chunk out]
-> (And to think the fools were daft enough to give me a GCSE (or two) in
-> English. Sometimes our education system really worrys me.)
^^^^^^
Scares the @@@@ out of me, and I'm a teacher. (BTW, should I say 'allegedly'
here?)
-> ____________________________________________________________________________
-> \ x / Michael Williams Advanced RISC Machines Limited
Ah well, if I could program I'd be a happy man.
--
Malcolm in Sunny Berkhamsted.
The number of a class is the class of all classes similar to a given class.
Just remember - you heard it here first.
David Walker
( Mark D Smith ) wrote:
> In article <36rbg7$r...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk> de...@cus.cam.ac.uk (D.R. de Lacey) writes:
> >
> >For the Linux port's progress, see http://www.ph.kcl.ac.uk/~amb/linux.html
> >It was due to be released in the summer but there have been ethernet problems.
> >My A5000 is waiting with bated breath!
I wouldn't even mind a native lynx prog perhaps organised like gopher ?
At least that would be a step in the right direction.
> It's just a shame I have no WWW browser for my Risc PC - I will have to take
> a trip to the computer centre to check this out. [hint:- wants Mosaic Port
> :-)]
As long as it's the real version of Mosiac ie the one from the Unix world
> I willing to beta test any unix ports on my internetted Risc PC, should that
> be required.
>
> Mark.
Likewise I would be only too willing to help also
Destops look so good 800x600x16m don't they even if a little small !
Byeeee
--
David Walker
E-Mail da...@ease.demon.co.uk
Non sine periculo
... I got two words for Van Gogh..'Say what?'.
Frank Lancaster
Ollie Cornes
> As long as it's the real version of Mosiac ie the one from the Unix world
I'm not so sure about that. As far as I am aware the programmers who
wrote the original version have now all been snapped up by companies
producing commercial web viewers and so development of the 'real'
version has slowed. The latest version is pretty good, but not on the
same level as some of the commercial ones that will appear.
I guess one viewer is as good as any other. Being called Mosaic isn't
really necessary.
Regards,
Ollie.
--
Ol...@smollow.demon.co.uk
Ol...@cconcepts.co.uk Computer Concepts Ltd. All opinions are mine
-- "As I reached for the CD player, the universe ceased to exist" --
... On second thoughts, lets not go to Camelot. It is a silly place.