Ovation file format to text, & linux on old risc pcs
Matthew Willson
I find myself in the position of having a large archive of Ovation files
(mostly the old Ovation, but some Ovation Pro too) which need converting to
a portable format en masse. Are there any (free) utilities around for the
Acorn or PC which will convert these files to text (or possibly RTF) as a
batch operation?
If not, can anyone supply me with a file format spec for Ovation (or even
better a chunk of C/Perl/Basic/whatever code that would aid in ripping the
text content out of these files)? On inspecting them it seems the text for
each 'frame' is stored quite accessibly (plain text with linefeeds?), it's
just finding the offset from the start of the file so I can ditch all the
surrounding binary data. The files dont use any complex layouts just text in
the main document frame that you start out with and a few paragraph styles.
I only really need text files out of it. Just can't be bothered opening
hundreds of files individually in ovation and exporting out the text for
each...
On another (vaguely connected) note, I've been given a redundant old RiscPC
(4meg ram, 80meg HD, Risc os 3.5 pre strongarm I think) and am trying to
find a use for it, does anyone have any pointers on installing linux or bsd
on it? I remember hearing something about ARM linux a while back but suspect
it was rather primitive? I'd not need any GUI stuff... might try and turn it
into a basic webserver, if I could persuade it to somehow do TCP/IP over the
parallel or serial port (no ethernet card).. anyways
Cheers,
--
Matthew Willson
http://www.drownedinsound.com/matt
http://citylight.freelancers.net/
David Boddie
> I find myself in the position of having a large archive of Ovation files
> (mostly the old Ovation, but some Ovation Pro too) which need converting to
> a portable format en masse. Are there any (free) utilities around for the
> Acorn or PC which will convert these files to text (or possibly RTF) as a
> batch operation?
I suspect that someone will be along in a moment to enlighten you:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=pan.2003.04.14.11.02.14.536565%40ukonline.co.uk
Ken Down
<mat...@willson.freeuk.com> wrote:
> If not, can anyone supply me with a file format spec for Ovation
I shall be interested too. I wanted to find out the file format in order to
write a footnoting program, but Beebug wouldn't even give me a clue.
> On another (vaguely connected) note, I've been given a redundant old
> RiscPC (4meg ram, 80meg HD, Risc os 3.5 pre strongarm I think) and am
> trying to find a use for it
Er - desk top publishing using Ovation?
Ken Down
--
__ __ __ __ __
| \ | / __ / __ | |\ | / __ |__ All the latest archaeological news
|__/ | \__/ \__/ | | \| \__/ __| from the Middle East with David Down
================================= and "Digging Up The Past"
Web site: www.argonet.co.uk/education/diggings
e-mail: digg...@argonet.co.uk
Tony Houghton
Matthew Willson <mat...@willson.freeuk.com> wrote:
> On another (vaguely connected) note, I've been given a redundant old RiscPC
> (4meg ram, 80meg HD, Risc os 3.5 pre strongarm I think) and am trying to
> find a use for it, does anyone have any pointers on installing linux or bsd
> on it? I remember hearing something about ARM linux a while back but suspect
> it was rather primitive? I'd not need any GUI stuff... might try and turn it
> into a basic webserver, if I could persuade it to somehow do TCP/IP over the
> parallel or serial port (no ethernet card).. anyways
If you can get hold of Aleph One's Debian port, that's a reasonable
version of Linux, otherwise you might be better off with NetBSD. Either
way 4MB is going to be a bit tight though.
Networking over the serial port is no problem, using PPP and it works
with RISC OS too. Parallel port networking is called PLIP, and should
also be straightforward, but I've never tried it and I don't know if
there's a RISC OS driver.
--
TH * http://www.realh.co.uk
Matthew Willson
> format is more portable than you think.
>
> The executable is OvPro.exe
>
> Guess what it installs :-)
Oh has it been ported to the PC then? Neat. That'd only really be any use if
it was free though, and if it did batch file conversion... fact of the
matter is I don't want the files in Ovation format. It is a nice DTP package
and all but the letters have got to go in a database and possibly end with a
website... they're not mine but I've been asked to convert them to a
suitable format for my grandfather who was persuaded to 'upgrade' his Risc
pc to a Dell and is working on a large archive of historical family
correspondance.
Would be interested to see the PC version anyway though (if that's what you
mean?). Is it downloadable anywhere?
Ralph Corderoy
> Apropos "suitable format" surely the need to convert simply disappears
> if the files are readable as is on the PC? More to the point since
> your father has been using Ovation Pro on the RPC the same software on
> a PC will be easier to use than Word.
He said "the letters have got to go in a database and possibly end with
a website..." so I don't think the DTP side is needed anymore for them.
Cheers,
--
Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/
John Cartmell
> > Apropos "suitable format" surely the need to convert simply disappears
> > if the files are readable as is on the PC? More to the point since
> > your father has been using Ovation Pro on the RPC the same software on
> > a PC will be easier to use than Word.
> He said "the letters have got to go in a database and possibly end with
> a website..." so I don't think the DTP side is needed anymore for them.
I get a horrible feeling about the sort of software that's likely to be
used to produce the website. ;-(
Purchase of a new RISC OS machine and EditHTML might be the best advice!
--
John Cartmell jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527
Acorn Publisher magazine & FD Games http://www.acornpublisher.com
Ken Down
<mat...@willson.freeuk.com> wrote:
> I've been asked to convert them to a
> suitable format for my grandfather who was persuaded to 'upgrade' his Risc
> pc to a Dell
Cut him out of your will.
Ken Down
<steve.p...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Why not ask the real author?
At the time I didn't know who the author was - and Beebug sure weren't
telling.
> OvPro I trust.
Indeed.
Matthew Willson
> used to produce the website. ;-(
> Purchase of a new RISC OS machine and EditHTML might be the best advice!
*Ahem* I tend to code XHTML and CSS by hand in pico. So ner. :) PHP and
MySQL on the server side. I'll probably write a script to insert the letters
and associated data (date, author, recipient, location etc) into a MySQL
database once I've managed to squeeze the text out of Ovation file format.
Was considering using XML but that could easily be generated from the
database if required. I have no objection to using OvPro for DTP, it's a lot
nicer than MS Word or Publisher (although not quite as powerful as Quark and
the like). Just don't happen to want the files in that format at present.
Do you think David Pilling would be the man to ask about Ovation (ie pre
OvPro) file format, or did he just write ovation pro? I guess the latter can
import the former's file format so he might know...
FYI I used to be a big acorn advocate too and would love to have a play with
one of these new riscos 5 machines, but can't really be doing with the
expense and compatibility issues (hardware and software) when I can get a
cheap yet powerful linux/winxp dual boot machine to play with and do my web
programming on. Being a poor student and all.
Matthew Willson
> > suitable format for my grandfather who was persuaded to 'upgrade' his
Risc
> > pc to a Dell
>
> Cut him out of your will.
Eh... the chances of him outliving me are pretty slight!
I think the PC was pretty much inevitable. They're cheap, Windows XP Home is
shock horror actually pretty user friendly, no need to worry about
compatibility issues, easy to get on the internet, etc. No doubt the same
could be achieved with a new Risc OS machine but at far greater expense, and
I'm the only one in the family who can really support him on the acorn
whereas everyone knows windows and can help him out with it when I'm not
around. Would've been good if the old Risc PC 600 could've lasted a bit
longer, but it really was on its last legs and would've needed a lot of
upgrades to get it on the net, more RAM (than 4meg) to allow editing of
large DTP documents & images etc. I'm sure a good use will be found for it
though, most likely running some of the vast collection of games accumulated
on our old A3010 and for word processing when the PC isn't free. I wanted to
install NetBSD on it but turns out it'd need a lot more RAM...
Jeremy C B Nicoll
Matthew Willson <mat...@willson.freeuk.com> wrote:
> once I've managed to squeeze the text out of Ovation file format.
I think this will be hard... The usual approach is to load such a file
into OP and then save it as DDL (which is a parsable plain text document
structure language). It's undocumented but reasonably easy to follow.
> Do you think David Pilling would be the man to ask about Ovation (ie
> pre OvPro) file format, or did he just write ovation pro? I guess the
> latter can import the former's file format so he might know...
Of course he'll know. But I doubt he'll tell you. The "file format" is
just a dump of Ovation's storage, as far as I know, which makes it pretty
much impossible to process.
--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Jeremy C B Nicoll
Steven Pampling <steve.p...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Actually I suspect he will give as much information as he can - he's
> that kind of person.
Well he doesn't hand out doc when people ask about the human-readable DDL
format files, saying that no such doc actually exists. I'd guess that
the format has just "evolved". The best help one gets is that one can
create a few files and then save them as DDL and work out what the
contents are, by inspection.
This is why I think that getting info about the machine-readable files
will be impossible.
Ralph Corderoy
> This is why I think that getting info about the machine-readable files
> will be impossible.
And is a prime example why, no matter how good the program, or how
helpful the programmer behind it, a proprietary, closed-source, program
leaves users stuck when it comes to moving on with *their* data in an
unportable format.
If the source code is available, then they, or someone in a similiar
boat with the skills, or someone they contract if it's important enough,
can extra their data from the old file.
You can do it without the source, and it's legal, just often more
difficult for any complex sample.
David Boddie
> And is a prime example why, no matter how good the program, or how
> helpful the programmer behind it, a proprietary, closed-source, program
> leaves users stuck when it comes to moving on with *their* data in an
> unportable format.
I think that there are a number of individuals who consider this
secondary to the financial health of their favourite RISC OS
application vendors. Fortunately, there are people who are prepared
to plan ahead so that all that hard work doesn't go straight into the
bin when users upgrade.
> If the source code is available, then they, or someone in a similiar
> boat with the skills, or someone they contract if it's important enough,
> can extra their data from the old file.
>
> You can do it without the source, and it's legal, just often more
> difficult for any complex sample.
Which brings us back to Dover Associates again... (-;C
David
--
Picture of the day:
http://www.boddie.org.uk/david/Projects/Python/Sketch/Images/impression1.png
Jeremy C B Nicoll
> > This is why I think that getting info about the machine-readable files
> > will be impossible.
> And is a prime example why, no matter how good the program, or how
> helpful the programmer behind it, a proprietary, closed-source, program
> leaves users stuck when it comes to moving on with *their* data in an
> unportable format.
Yes, but the "moving-on" hasn't happened; old Ovation (or OvPro) files
can either be loaded into old versions of Ovation, or somewhat newer
ones, and saved out as DDL, and that can be imported (I think) by the
newest version of OP. Failing that, one can track down an older machine
and run Ovation on it, and get at the files' contents.
OP is certainly still supported, indeed a Windows version is under
development too.
> If the source code is available, then they, or someone in a similiar
> boat with the skills, or someone they contract if it's important enough,
> can extra their data from the old file.
The point here is that data is fairly easy to extact from an Ovation
(Pro) file provided you do it from the human-readable DDL file rather
than the machine-readable file.
Tonnie Demarteau
Ralph Corderoy <ra...@inputplus.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Jeremy,
>
>> This is why I think that getting info about the machine-readable
>> files will be impossible.
>
> And is a prime example why, no matter how good the program, or how
> helpful the programmer behind it, a proprietary, closed-source,
> program leaves users stuck when it comes to moving on with *their*
> data in an unportable format.
>
> If the source code is available, then they, or someone in a similiar
> boat with the skills, or someone they contract if it's important
> enough, can extra their data from the old file.
Ovation *Pro* is a David Pilling Ltd product. This comes with an !Ovation1
applet. When this is installed Ovation Pro can load Ovation doc's.
As far as I know, Ovation has gone from Beebug to ADPL and is now sold by
ADPL.
I guess, questions about Ovation should be asked there ...
It is also bundled with Virtual Acorn.
--
Mrs Tonnie Demarteau - the Netherlands
Ken Down
<mat...@willson.freeuk.com> wrote:
> FYI I used to be a big acorn advocate too and would love to have a play
> with one of these new riscos 5 machines, but can't really be doing with
> the expense and compatibility issues (hardware and software) when I can
> get a cheap yet powerful linux/winxp dual boot machine to play with and
> do my web programming on. Being a poor student and all.
You mean "cheap yet nasty". I do video editing on PCs (I have three of the
wretched things plus a laptop) and in the two years I've had them, I've lost
count of the number of times I've had to reinstall Windows. In addition, at
least once a day one of them crashes. A hard drive has failed and another
one is going.
My Risc-PC is coming up for seven/eight years old, has never needed
reinstalling, never failed to start up, rarely crashes, makes no annoying
noises on start up and shut down and, BEST OF ALL, Bill Gates hasn't been
near it.
Ken Down
--
__ __ __ __ __
| \ | / __ / __ | |\ | / __ |__ All the latest archaeological news
|__/ | \__/ \__/ | | \| \__/ __| from the Middle East with David Down
================================= and "Digging Up The Past"
Web site: www.diggingsonline.com
e-mail: digg...@argonet.co.uk
Alan Wrigley
Ken Down <digg...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> You mean "cheap yet nasty". I do video editing on PCs (I have three of the
> wretched things plus a laptop) and in the two years I've had them, I've lost
> count of the number of times I've had to reinstall Windows. In addition, at
> least once a day one of them crashes. A hard drive has failed and another
> one is going.
Well, goodness me. My Risc PC crashes several times a day, and always
has done. Usually it's Messenger Pro that takes it down and I've lost
email a number of times as a result. I've had three hard disc failures,
one PSU failure, I've had to change the motherboard, and the sound
either works or doesn't depending on which side of the bed I got out of.
> My Risc-PC is coming up for seven/eight years old, has never needed
> reinstalling, never failed to start up, rarely crashes, makes no annoying
> noises on start up and shut down and, BEST OF ALL, Bill Gates hasn't been
> near it.
My PC is 4 years old, having been built from spare parts that were
several years old at the time. I've never had to reinstall Windows NT,
it's never failed to start up (unlike my RPC which every few months goes
through a period of complete failure to boot until suddenly after a week
or so it miraculously starts working again), and crashes are restricted
to a BSOD every few months. I've just upgraded to XP Pro so I expect
even that level of unreliability to be a thing of the past.
Reliability is NOT a valid issue. It might have been once but it isn't
any longer. It has no relevance to the system, as I have just proved
since my experience is diametrically opposed to yours. I use RISC OS for
much of my work because I prefer it, despite the gross unreliability of
the machine it's running on. YMMV, but when you tell PC users their
computers are by definition unreliable you will just get laughed at in
many cases. Far better to promote RISC OS as a user-friendly and highly
productive OS.
Alan
--
RISC OS - you know it makes cents
Tony Houghton
Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <na.7ed4294be9....@argonet.co.uk>
> Ken Down <digg...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> You mean "cheap yet nasty". I do video editing on PCs (I have three of the
>> wretched things plus a laptop) and in the two years I've had them, I've lost
>> count of the number of times I've had to reinstall Windows. In addition, at
>> least once a day one of them crashes. A hard drive has failed and another
>> one is going.
>
> Well, goodness me. My Risc PC crashes several times a day, and always
> has done. Usually it's Messenger Pro that takes it down and I've lost
> email a number of times as a result. I've had three hard disc failures,
> one PSU failure, I've had to change the motherboard, and the sound
> either works or doesn't depending on which side of the bed I got out of.
Yes, it's amazing the number of Acorn users who seem to buy their PCs
from PC World then take it apart to grit the fans and replace the hard
drives with Fujitsus if necessary.
I've had a PSU failure in my Archimedes and in my Risc PC and in my
first PC, which was built for me. I buy better quality ones now, and
they haven't failed. I've had one hard drive failure, in my PC, but it
was an IBM 75GXP. RISC OS won't stop those from crashing.
Most of my crashes in RISC OS are caused by my own development efforts,
true, but I also find Zap too unreliable for comfort, and most of the
Castle C/C++ tools are too unreliable to be useful.
I'm also finding RISC OS even more prone to quirks than Windows 98, let
alone XP ie something works one minute, doesn't the next until you
reset, or only works on certain setups.
I don't use it for Internet access any more and count myself lucky not
to have to.
>> My Risc-PC is coming up for seven/eight years old, has never needed
>> reinstalling, never failed to start up, rarely crashes, makes no annoying
>> noises on start up and shut down and, BEST OF ALL, Bill Gates hasn't been
>> near it.
My Risc PC makes an annoying noise at start up, caused by a floppy drive
seek. I can disable it on my PCs. I could probably get by without
floppies altogether seeing as I can use any cheap CD writer I like,
whereas RISC OS still doesn't seem to have woken up to ATAPI, and PC
network cards only cost a tenner if you don't already have one built in
to your motherboard.
In fact, the 4 fans in this PC - and it's an Athlon - make less annoying
noise together than the one in my Risc PC, even when it isn't due for an
oil change.
I don't believe Iyonix is that quiet either. They have Maxtor hard
drives, and anyone who claims that they can't hear a hard drive, unless
it's a Seagate Barracuda, is either deaf or in marketing.
> My PC is 4 years old, having been built from spare parts that were
> several years old at the time. I've never had to reinstall Windows NT,
> it's never failed to start up (unlike my RPC which every few months goes
> through a period of complete failure to boot until suddenly after a week
> or so it miraculously starts working again), and crashes are restricted
> to a BSOD every few months. I've just upgraded to XP Pro so I expect
> even that level of unreliability to be a thing of the past.
When you say it fails to boot, does it stay completely dead or crash out
somewhere in the boot sequence? Your PSU could be failing, try Googling
csah for PSU failures and how to fix them cheaply.
John Cartmell
Tony Houghton <{tony}@realh.co.uk> wrote:
> I don't believe Iyonix is that quiet either. They have Maxtor hard
> drives, and anyone who claims that they can't hear a hard drive, unless
> it's a Seagate Barracuda, is either deaf or in marketing.
OK so we had two running at a recent UG meeting. We had to switch off the
fan and Xpelair but even then the noise from the fridge in the bar at the
far end of the room drowned out the noise of the two IYONIXes when you put
your ear to them.
The IYONIX pcs are *dangerous* (especially when you've taken them apart to
look at the insides). It's far too easy to forget they're switched on...
.. just ask our member with the warm ear! ;-)
--
John Cartmell jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527
Acorn Publisher magazine & FD Games www.acornpublisher.com
Annraoi
>
<snip>
>
> I don't believe Iyonix is that quiet either. They have Maxtor hard
> drives, and anyone who claims that they can't hear a hard drive, unless
> it's a Seagate Barracuda, is either deaf or in marketing.
>
The machine is very quiet - I had the oppertunity to not listen to one
at the show in Guildford.
Very quiet indeed ;)
Regards
Annraoi
Alan Wrigley
Tony Houghton <{tony}@realh.co.uk> wrote:
> In <87c32cea4b...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>,
> Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > (unlike my RPC which every few months goes
> > through a period of complete failure to boot until suddenly after a week
> > or so it miraculously starts working again)
>
> When you say it fails to boot, does it stay completely dead or crash out
> somewhere in the boot sequence? Your PSU could be failing, try Googling
> csah for PSU failures and how to fix them cheaply.
It was a complete failure to display anything on the screen. It's a
couple of months since the last one so I don't remember all the
symptoms. I did have a PSU failure and it's possible that was since the
last start-up failure so could have been the cause. I've also changed
the mobo recently so that might have improved things. My current
problems seem to occur when the machine is cold - I usually get at least
one crash every morning, very often while MPro is debatching mail, but
after a while it becomes stable for the rest of the day.
Ken Down
Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
> Well, goodness me. My Risc PC crashes several times a day, and always
> has done. Usually it's Messenger Pro that takes it down and I've lost
> email a number of times as a result. I've had three hard disc failures,
> one PSU failure, I've had to change the motherboard, and the sound
> either works or doesn't depending on which side of the bed I got out of.
My ghast is flabbered.
> Far better to promote RISC OS as a user-friendly and highly
> productive OS.
Well that is so. A friend from Australia was over last week and needed to
send off an e-mail. I showed her which buttons to press and left her to it.
Came back to find her positively drooling over the clear text, the lovely
icons, the ease of use. If she'd stayed longer I think I might have
converted her.
Ken Down
<{tony}@realh.co.uk> wrote:
> Yes, it's amazing the number of Acorn users who seem to buy their PCs
> from PC World then take it apart to grit the fans and replace the hard
> drives with Fujitsus if necessary.
The first PC was from Evesham - BIIIG mistake! It was completely unusable,
but it took nearly eight months of phone calls, visits down there, visits by
their technician up here, before the blighters finally admitted that they
had sold me the old and obsolete drivers for the firewire card and upgraded
them. In fact, the final technician admitted that they had known all along
what the problem was, but the bods in charge wouldn't cough up as it would
cost them money. It wasn't until I had made a sufficient nuisance of myself
that they decided to bite the bullet.
Grrrr.
Tony Houghton
Steven Pampling <steve.p...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <slrnbaqdrh.15k.{tony}@realh.co.uk>,
> Tony Houghton <{tony}@realh.co.uk> wrote:
>> I don't believe Iyonix is that quiet either. They have Maxtor hard
>> drives, and anyone who claims that they can't hear a hard drive, unless
>> it's a Seagate Barracuda, is either deaf or in marketing.
>
> Doubt away.
>
> I'm not deaf and I'm not in marketing.
>
> We have a number of pretty quiet new PC's at work let down in quiet rooms
> by the noise of the air through the fan and a drive "whistle" i.e. quiet
> but not silent.
It's that sort of whistle/whine I would expect the Iyonix to have,
because I read they use Maxtor hard drives. They're very good drives,
and I see they do specify 27dB at idle on the FDB models, which is
better than the average 30dB (which I find quite loud), but I think I'd
still be able to hear that:- I can hear fans rated at 25dB. Seagate
specify 20dB at idle.
> My Iyonix is in a walk in cupboard (convenient to use spur shelving to
> produce a desk and shelves) in that cupboard with the door shut I can hear
> the air through the PSU fan and that's it no drive sound unless it's being
> accessed. Yes there's a noise from that but the mouse click is way louder.
HD access noise doesn't bother me that much, but it would if it were
constant. Also, wind noise from fans is soothing, if anything, and helps
drown out any residual whine.
druck
wrote:
> Well, goodness me. My Risc PC crashes several times a day, and always
> has done. Usually it's Messenger Pro that takes it down and I've lost
> email a number of times as a result. I've had three hard disc failures,
> one PSU failure, I've had to change the motherboard, and the sound
> either works or doesn't depending on which side of the bed I got out of.
You machine is faulty, get it fixed.
> Reliability is NOT a valid issue. It might have been once but it isn't
> any longer. It has no relevance to the system, as I have just proved
> since my experience is diametrically opposed to yours.
All you've proved is there is some fault with your machine and you haven't
got it fixed. Instead you are trying to tar every reliable system with the
same brush, which really isn't fair.
---druck
--
The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/
The 32bit Conversions Page - http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/druck/
John Cartmell
Tony Houghton <{tony}@realh.co.uk> wrote:
> It's that sort of whistle/whine I would expect the Iyonix to have,
I'm afraid you won't be able to test it at Wakefield unless Castle leave a
machine there overnight. You will *not* hear any noise from them; and at
2am you might be able to confirm that they *are* quiet!
--
John Cartmell jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527
Acorn Publisher magazine & FD Games www.acornpublisher.com
Alan Wrigley
druck <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 28 Apr 2003 Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > Reliability is NOT a valid issue. It might have been once but it isn't
> > any longer. It has no relevance to the system, as I have just proved
> > since my experience is diametrically opposed to yours.
>
> All you've proved is there is some fault with your machine and you haven't
> got it fixed. Instead you are trying to tar every reliable system with the
> same brush, which really isn't fair.
Don't talk bollocks Dave. The whole point of my post was to show that
you *shouldn't* tar every system with the same brush since reliability
and unreliability are unrelated to the system. You're happy for people
to whinge about unreliable PCs when clearly there is a fault in their
machine. I'm merely pointing out that any system can be unreliable in
certain conditions.
So, my machine has a fault and needs fixing? That's a pretty good
definition of unreliability to me, especially since a new PSU and a new
motherboard failed to cure the unreliablity.
Oh, and just in the interest of fairness, though it isn't relevant to
the point I was making, my second RPC is very reliable indeed.
Steve Fryatt
<8bd5d4ea...@druck.freeuk.net>:
> On 28 Apr 2003 Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > Well, goodness me. My Risc PC crashes several times a day, and always
> > has done. Usually it's Messenger Pro that takes it down and I've lost
> > email a number of times as a result. I've had three hard disc
> > failures, one PSU failure, I've had to change the motherboard, and the
> > sound either works or doesn't depending on which side of the bed I got
> > out of.
>
> You machine is faulty, get it fixed.
Read the comments again, in context.
> > Reliability is NOT a valid issue. It might have been once but it isn't
> > any longer. It has no relevance to the system, as I have just proved
> > since my experience is diametrically opposed to yours.
>
> All you've proved is there is some fault with your machine and you
> haven't got it fixed. Instead you are trying to tar every reliable
> system with the same brush, which really isn't fair.
Indeed. The reply was to the usual drivel of "my [broken] PC crashes a
lot, therefore all PCs are crap". I notice you didn't ask the OP to get
his PC fixed, despite such problems not being normal on other platforms
either (whatever die-hard RISC OS advocates would like to believe).
--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/
* "The engineer's first problem in any design situation is to discover what
the problem really is."
Mr S C Winsor
Steven Pampling <steve.p...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> My Iyonix is in a walk in cupboard (convenient to use spur shelving to
> produce a desk and shelves) in that cupboard with the door shut I can
> hear the air through the PSU fan and that's it no drive sound unless
> it's being accessed. Yes there's a noise from that but the mouse click
> is way louder.
And having listened to it myself I can concurr.
It's incredibly quiet
Stuart.
--
__ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________
|__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | /
| || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines
___________________________/ stuart...@argonet.co.uk
101 uses for a Pentium: No1 - A slow cooker.
Colin Granville
>In article <slrnbaqdrh.15k.{tony}@realh.co.uk>,
> Tony Houghton <{tony}@realh.co.uk> wrote:
>> I don't believe Iyonix is that quiet either. They have Maxtor hard
>> drives, and anyone who claims that they can't hear a hard drive, unless
>> it's a Seagate Barracuda, is either deaf or in marketing.
>
>Doubt away.
>
>I'm not deaf and I'm not in marketing.
>
>We have a number of pretty quiet new PC's at work let down in quiet rooms
>by the noise of the air through the fan and a drive "whistle" i.e. quiet
>but not silent.
>
>My Iyonix is in a walk in cupboard (convenient to use spur shelving to
>produce a desk and shelves) in that cupboard with the door shut I can hear
>the air through the PSU fan and that's it no drive sound unless it's being
>accessed.
Hmmm... that's a bit dissapointing. I was hoping it would be silent
- my seagate baracuda is silent even when accessing the disc and
it's just on the floor next to me. Does the PSU fan ever switch off
or is it only 2 speed?
>Yes there's a noise from that but the mouse click is way louder.
I should hope it is. It's constant high pitched whines that I have a
problem with they give me tinitus (too many noisy harddiscs)
luckily switching to the seagate made it go away. The only trouble
now is that my monitor has started to squeal - are LCD screens
silent?
--
Colin
Tony Houghton
Colin Granville <colin.g...@gmx.co.uk> wrote:
> I should hope it is. It's constant high pitched whines that I have a
> problem with they give me tinitus (too many noisy harddiscs)
> luckily switching to the seagate made it go away. The only trouble
> now is that my monitor has started to squeal - are LCD screens
> silent?
They're supposed to be. Apparently it's the line transformer that makes
that noise in CRTs and a TV engineer may be able to cure it.
LCDs aren't immune either, I had a Sony that annoyed the hell out of me
so I returned it. The replacement isn't quite perfectly silent, but I
can only hear it if I put my ear to the back of it, so it's fine for
normal use.
Colin Granville
Funnily enough my monitor is a Sony and I sent a Sony widescreen TV
back last year partly because it emitted a high pitched whine.
Looks like Sony is one to avoid.
--
Colin
James Sargent
> The first PC was from Evesham - BIIIG mistake! It was completely
> unusable, but it took nearly eight months of phone calls, visits down
> there, visits by their technician up here, before the blighters
> finally admitted that they had sold me the old and obsolete drivers
> for the firewire card and upgraded them.
Funny, innit, my experience of Evesham is that the engineer arrived the
day after my phone call to support and he fixed the problem.
Just goes to show how inconsistent the level of service is.
James
Ken Down
wrote:
> Funny, innit, my experience of Evesham is that the engineer arrived the
> day after my phone call to support and he fixed the problem.
The engineers were great chaps. I got on well with them and found them
helpful in the extreme. I also found them fuming over the way management
forced them to work - penny-pinching in silly little ways, like doling out
the wrong drivers.
> Just goes to show how inconsistent the level of service is.
Just shows that if you buy a computer, get it from someone local. The PC I
bought from a local store (VFM Computers) cost less than half the price and
has never given a moment's trouble.