Re: Lanman98 to Raspios (bullseye) now blocked?

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Theo

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Jan 21, 2022, 5:47:34 PMJan 21
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Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> I have been building raspberry pie based projects for some time using
> the official OS from their website. Last September the OS was called
> "buster" and you could edit /etc/samaba/smb.conf and add...
>
> client min protocol=NT1
> ntlm auth=yes
>
> This enabled SMB1 so that Lanman98 could connect.
>
> I've tried that today with "bullseye" the latest OS and that config
> no longer works. However, my W10 PC connects no problem. It looks to
> me as though the doors are now closed on SMB1 and Lanman98.
>
> Anyone got any ideas suggestions, google doesn't mention this
> specific issue.

What version of Samba are you running on the Pi?

I had a skim through the release notes of various major releases of Samba (I
didn't go through all the point releases). The only thing I note, from
4.13.0, is deprecation of ntlm authentication:


SMBv1 only protocol options deprecated
--------------------------------------

A number of smb.conf parameters for less-secure authentication methods
which are only possible over SMBv1 are deprecated in this release.


REMOVED FEATURES
================

smb.conf changes
================

Parameter Name Description Default
-------------- ----------- -------
ldap ssl ads Removed
smb2 disable lock sequence checking Added No
smb2 disable oplock break retry Added No
domain logons Deprecated no
raw NTLMv2 auth Deprecated no
client plaintext auth Deprecated no
client NTLMv2 auth Deprecated yes
client lanman auth Deprecated no
client use spnego Deprecated yes
server require schannel:COMPUTER Added


but 'deprecated' shouldn't mean 'removed'.


Also, on my travels, I saw a note that Windows disables SMB1 if it hasn't
been used for 30 days. Which might explain why people have problems with
LanManFS/98 randomly stopping working, depending on when they last used it.

Theo

Theo

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Jan 22, 2022, 10:22:18 AMJan 22
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Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <ABe*a4...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
> Theo <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
>
> > What version of Samba are you running on the Pi?
>
> I've never attempted to use a different version to the one that gets
> installed for the OS you're running, is that even possible?

Possibly, but even if it wasn't, I don't have your system in front of me -
'the one in bullseye' doesn't help if I don't know what that is.
The one in *Debian* is 2:4.13.13+dfsg-1~deb11u2 (ie 4.13.13 with their
tweaks)
https://packages.debian.org/bullseye/samba
but I don't know if the Pi people have changed things (I don't know of a
packages.raspios site).

I'd use
sudo dpkg --list | grep samba
to tell you versions of all the packages with 'samba' in the name.

> At the moment I've been trying to find the most recent OS that still
> allows SMB1 with the added code mentioned before. The last I've found
> is version 4.9.5-Debian which is the default for "buster 2021-12-02"
> OS. That is still available for download at the moment.
>
> Could I install SAMBA 4.9.5 on the later bullseye OS?
> How might I go about that?

Yes. Assuming you were on Debian (and this might still work for PiOS, since
they're related), go here:
https://packages.debian.org/buster/samba
and you can download the 'armhf' package for Samba.

Then you can do:

sudo dpkg --install samba_4.9.5+dfsg-5+deb10u2_armhf.deb

It may well complain about missing dependencies, in which case go back to
the Samba page, find what it needs, and download those .deb files.

*Beware* that it's possible to get your system in a mess if you install
packages this way that conflict with others that the packaging system can't
resolve. I'd take a backup of your system before trying this.

> > client plaintext auth Deprecated no
> > client NTLMv2 auth Deprecated yes
> > client lanman auth Deprecated no
> > client use spnego Deprecated yes
>
> > but 'deprecated' shouldn't mean 'removed'.
>
> And yet it doesn't function, how might I change that, is it possible
> to change that??

Have you confirmed that it's NTLM at fault, rather than something else? I
don't think we know what's causing it not to work, just that it doesn't.

Theo

David Pitt

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Feb 21, 2022, 7:51:05 AMFeb 21
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In message <59ae53...@sick-of-spam.invalid>
Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> I have been building raspberry pie based projects for some time using
> the official OS from their website. Last September the OS was called
> "buster" and you could edit /etc/samaba/smb.conf and add...

> client min protocol=NT1
> ntlm auth=yes

> This enabled SMB1 so that Lanman98 could connect.

> I've tried that today with "bullseye" the latest OS and that config
> no longer works. However, my W10 PC connects no problem. It looks to
> me as though the doors are now closed on SMB1 and Lanman98.

> Anyone got any ideas suggestions, google doesn't mention this
> specific issue.

The following in the global section of /etc/samba/smb.conf worked just
fine here on Raspberry Pi OS bullseye 32bit and 64bit.

server min protocol = LANMAN1

--
David Pitt
Titanium

David Pitt

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Feb 22, 2022, 11:39:32 AMFeb 22
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In message <59be5b...@sick-of-spam.invalid>
Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <dee93abe5...@iyonix.home>,
> David Pitt <ne...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <59ae53...@sick-of-spam.invalid>
>> Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

[snip - enabling SMB1]

> I was told they've made it more difficult as a
> warning that they intend to end SMB1 imminently.

We should be OK for a bit longer, SMB1 is not slated for removal in
the next upcoming samba release 4.16. Debian bullseye and Raspberry Pi
OS bullseye are in any case a bit behind the sharp end at samba 4.13.

https://wiki.samba.org/index.php/Samba_Release_Planning

(Link works in Iris.)

By way of belt and braces I have set up an NFS server on Raspberry OS
bullseye. Sunfish will connect to it but the Mac won't.
--
David Pitt
Titanium

Steve Fryatt

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Feb 22, 2022, 1:35:03 PMFeb 22
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On 22 Feb, Bob Latham wrote in message
<59bedb...@sick-of-spam.invalid>:

> However, the folders you get in sunfish do my head in and I avoid
> at all cost because of that.

Eh? Folders?

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

Chris Hughes

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Feb 23, 2022, 7:24:40 AMFeb 23
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In message <59bf30...@sick-of-spam.invalid>
Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> In article <mpro.r7py2n00...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
> Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 22 Feb, Bob Latham wrote in message
>> <59bedb...@sick-of-spam.invalid>:

>>> However, the folders you get in sunfish do my head in and I avoid
>>> at all cost because of that.

>> Eh? Folders?

> I'm unsure what you question, the term or the meaning?

> For very nearly 40 years everywhere I worked Windows was king and the
> term was folders, too old to worry about that.

> I mean the menu structure full of folders/directories I find baffling
> before you even look at the network shared disc. LM98 better in every
> way (while it works) except some of the character mappings.

I think Steve was asking what your issue was with folders? I am also
intrigued to know as well, you can navigate them just the same as LM98.

As for naming issues, you have to remember that all OS's have some
characters are resticted in each OS for different reasons. like / in
Windows and Linux is a folder separator whereas RISC OS uses a . for that
purpose. things like #@£$& etc can be restricted as different OS's use
them for certain OS operations, also some OS's do not like space and
a-acute, some programs treat a space as a delimiter and chop the rest of
the text after it off/ignore it.



--
Chris Hughes
Don't miss this years Wakefield Show 21st May 2022
check the latest information at www.wakefieldshow.org.uk

Steve Fryatt

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Feb 23, 2022, 1:55:03 PMFeb 23
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On 23 Feb, Bob Latham wrote in message
<59bf4c...@sick-of-spam.invalid>:

> > I think Steve was asking what your issue was with folders?

I was indeed. The statement "all the folders you get in sunfish" made
absolutely no sense, from the perspective of someone who uses Sunfish to
access all of the work that I do on RISC OS.

> With LM98 you have one file, that file has all the setting for one
> connection to a network share. Double click that file and you're
> connected.

Indeed. That's how Sunfish works as well.

> Indeed the name of the file then appears on the icon bar, excellent.

Ditto. Actually, it can be /any/ name, IIRC, because you configure it in the
file.

> Passwords whilst admittedly still SMB1 are plain and simple user name
> password combinations.

NFS has no concept of passwords, so you'll be fine: Sunfish doesn't use
them.

> Not like the UID, GID, umask etc. with NFS, which is no doubt standard
> Linux

The UID and GID are the file owners on the Linux side. You set them once in
Sunfish, to make sure that the files you save into it get assigned to the
correct user at the other end when configuring the share... then never see
them again.

> but after LM98 all quite odd, and seems to rely on ip addresses.

As I said, NFS has no concept of passwords. You restrict who can connect to
the server via IP address ranges (restrict it to your local subnet) and (in
a "real" setup) by who can get on to that subnet in the first place.

> I'm not saying I can't use Sunfish, I can but I don't like it due to its
> complexity in comparison to LM98.

The problem being that it's *not* complex in comparison to LM98: you edit
the settings in a text file, and double-click that to put the share on the
iconbar.

Maybe two text files, as there's the filer and the share itself, but even so
it's not that difficult.

Pre-ARMv7, it was all point-and-click in the GUI, but unfortunately
rebuilding that for modern hardware is proving tricky because it appears to
rely on being able to use an obsolete compiler suite.

Dave

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Feb 23, 2022, 2:08:05 PMFeb 23
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In article <59bf4c...@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> I'm not saying I can't use Sunfish, I can but I don't like it due to
> its complexity in comparison to LM98.

I tried it many years ago... I'm saying I couldn't use it because it
wouldn't work.

Obviously my problem with the configs, so I went back to LM98.

So with the future in mind, and Steve seems to think it's so easy to
setup, where might a chap get this Sunfish app.

Thanks
News@

Dave

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Feb 23, 2022, 3:53:15 PMFeb 23
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In article <59bf65b...@triffid.co.uk>,
Found Sunfish 2.05 put it in my VRPC-DL RISC OS 6.20

Did the Search for Host and tried with both Hostname and IP address...
Nothing except an error.

** WimpError ** from Sunfish
Error : &00000000
Message: Error when sending or receiving data (Operation timed out)

Apart from the obvious... I've no idea what that means.
?

News

Dave

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Feb 23, 2022, 4:15:13 PMFeb 23
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In article <59bf6f...@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <59bf65b...@triffid.co.uk>,
> Dave <ne...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> > So with the future in mind, and Steve seems to think it's so easy to
> > setup, where might a chap get this Sunfish app.

> https://www.filebase.org.uk/software/communications/network/935


> Bob.

Thanks, I already have 2.05 installed.

Not that it makes any difference as you'll note from my recent post. :-(

Dave

Doug Webb

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Feb 23, 2022, 5:54:40 PMFeb 23
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In message <59bf715...@triffid.co.uk>
I'd suggest that you obtain a copy via Packman or:

http://riscos.info/packages/arm/Disc/Sunfish_2.05-2.zip

And then getting the FrontEnd ARMV7 compliant !RunImage from:

https://www.riscosports.co.uk/downloads.html


Works here on ARMX6 etc.

--
Experience the future using ARM Technology - ARMBook,BeagleBoard -xM,
PandaBoard,Raspberry Pi,iMX6/ARMX6,IGEPv5 & Titanium powered by RISC OS
5.28.

Steve Fryatt

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Feb 23, 2022, 5:55:04 PMFeb 23
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On 23 Feb, Bob Latham wrote in message
<59bf6f...@sick-of-spam.invalid>:

> In article <59bf65b...@triffid.co.uk>,
> Dave <ne...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > So with the future in mind, and Steve seems to think it's so easy to
> > setup, where might a chap get this Sunfish app.
>
> https://www.filebase.org.uk/software/communications/network/935

The main download is at http://www.cp15.org/networking/

Then there's an update for the !RunImage file for modern machines at

http://www.cgransden.co.uk/sunfish.zip

Steve Fryatt

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Feb 23, 2022, 6:15:05 PMFeb 23
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On 23 Feb, Bob Latham wrote in message
<59bf71...@sick-of-spam.invalid>:

> In article <mpro.r7rtu901...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
> Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > I was indeed. The statement "all the folders you get in sunfish" made
> > absolutely no sense, from the perspective of someone who uses Sunfish to
> > access all of the work that I do on RISC OS.
>
> Well from my perspective they are very different.
>
> I've just run sunfish and icon bar - browse. Folder or window 1
>
> Click on NFS server red Another folder window 2
>
> Then you get menus

[snip]

> I don't yet have a drive on the ibar.

Except that you're not comparing like-for-like as far as I can tell, because
you've talked about a saved mount file on LM98 and yet you're navigating to
the share from scratch each time in Sunfish?

If you configure the mount as you want it (a one-off operation, just like
the first time you visit a mount in LM98), then *save* it as a mount file,
it's a double-click on that file the next time you want to visit it. With
the same configured settings, no less.

Or you save the filer mounts on the iconbar, and just run Sunfish the
application to get them back on to the iconbar.

Either way, I've not followed the route that you describe for years, because
my NFS drives appear on the iconbar each time my machine starts up, exactly
as I saved them the first time around. No machine names, or umasks, or GIDs,
in sight...

Dave

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Feb 24, 2022, 1:16:06 AMFeb 24
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In article <3b877abf59...@btinternet.com>,
Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> In message <59bf715...@triffid.co.uk>
> Dave <ne...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> > In article <59bf6f...@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
> > Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> >> In article <59bf65b...@triffid.co.uk>,
> >> Dave <ne...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> >>> So with the future in mind, and Steve seems to think it's so easy to
> >>> setup, where might a chap get this Sunfish app.

> >> https://www.filebase.org.uk/software/communications/network/935


> >> Bob.

> > Thanks, I already have 2.05 installed.

> > Not that it makes any difference as you'll note from my recent post. :-(

> > Dave

> I'd suggest that you obtain a copy via Packman or:

> http://riscos.info/packages/arm/Disc/Sunfish_2.05-2.zip

> And then getting the FrontEnd ARMV7 compliant !RunImage from:

> https://www.riscosports.co.uk/downloads.html

> Works here on ARMX6 etc.

Thanks for those URL.

Again the app runs to the icon bar but is still incapable of finding any
Host or IP address. (Icon bar menu- Browse-Search for Host...

VRPC-DL RISC OS 6.20

IP address is 192.168.0.4 and the Host (Windows computer) is blackfan.

Dave

LM98 has no problem seeing and connecting with that.

Server: blackfan
Share: C

D.

Richard Darby (news)

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Feb 24, 2022, 5:24:06 AMFeb 24
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In article <59bfa2f...@triffid.co.uk>,
Dave <ne...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> Thanks for those URL.

> Again the app runs to the icon bar but is still incapable of finding any
> Host or IP address. (Icon bar menu- Browse-Search for Host...

> VRPC-DL RISC OS 6.20

> IP address is 192.168.0.4 and the Host (Windows computer) is blackfan.

> Dave

> LM98 has no problem seeing and connecting with that.

> Server: blackfan
> Share: C

> D.

Are you running a NFS server on your target machine? (Moonfish on RISC
OS, you may have to obtain one for Windows, however it is part of Linux)

Richard Darby.

--

Richard Darby.
website: http://www.rjdarby.co.uk
Do not reply to this address all mail is deleted.
Reply to: <my first name> at <my domain>

Dave

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Feb 24, 2022, 6:48:21 AMFeb 24
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In article <59bfb99...@rjdarby.co.uk>,
Richard Darby (news) <ne...@rjdarby.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <59bfa2f...@triffid.co.uk>,
> Dave <ne...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> > Thanks for those URL.

> > Again the app runs to the icon bar but is still incapable of finding
> > any Host or IP address. (Icon bar menu- Browse-Search for Host...

> > VRPC-DL RISC OS 6.20

> > IP address is 192.168.0.4 and the Host (Windows computer) is blackfan.

> > Dave

> > LM98 has no problem seeing and connecting with that.

> > Server: blackfan
> > Share: C

> > D.

> Are you running a NFS server on your target machine? (Moonfish on RISC
> OS, you may have to obtain one for Windows, however it is part of Linux)

> Richard Darby.

Thanks for the thought Richard.
TBH. I have no idea what any of that means...

At present I have LM98, I configure the Servers and Shares in the required
files and it works between this machine, and other machine on the LAN.

Mr Fryatt seems to think Sunfish is so easy to setup, obviously it is Not!

Dave

Dave

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Feb 24, 2022, 7:05:39 AMFeb 24
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In article <59bfc15...@triffid.co.uk>,
I've just pootled around the Google looking up info about NFS servers...
Don't make me laugh... I've got more chance of walking to the moon than
understanding that stuff. :-/

Dave

Chris Hughes

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Feb 24, 2022, 7:41:02 AMFeb 24
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In message <59bfc15...@triffid.co.uk>
LM98 uses Samba for connecting (currently only supports the old Samba v1,

NFS (Network Filing System), uses a different protocol usually TCP/IP.
RISCOS NFS client app. Sunfish currently only supports NFS v2 and v3

You need to install an NFS server on your Windows computer (as its no
longer supplied by default I believe) so Sunfish can communicate with it,
but if using say a Synology NAS its available installed and you just need
to tick a box in its settings to turn it on.

Doug Webb

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Feb 24, 2022, 7:51:36 AMFeb 24
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In message <59bfc15...@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <ne...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:



>> Are you running a NFS server on your target machine? (Moonfish on RISC
>> OS, you may have to obtain one for Windows, however it is part of Linux)

>> Richard Darby.

> Thanks for the thought Richard.
> TBH. I have no idea what any of that means...

I think this just highlights the fact that though alternatives exist to
the issue around SMB1 working most people either through comfortability
with existing ways of working, personal preferences or lack of inertia
just wish to retain what they have at the moment.

If you are most likely used to a mixed RISCOS/Windows environment then LM
is the easier option but if you have a wider mixed environment, including
Linux/MacOS/NAS OS of what ever flavour etc, then it may not be and that
is just the reality of the situation.

The sooner the bounty work is completed the better and that would reduce
another barrier to using/retaining RISCOS in the mix.

Note that we will not get around the other big barrier with the bounty
which is sharing the other way via a Samba Server from Windows to RISCOS
and this is where NFS on RISCOS does excel at the moment in that we have
both a working client, Sunfish, and server, Moonfish where Samba server on
RISCOS is a little unstable.

In the meantime we users can try and help other stay with us by offering
help and support as once a user leaves it is harder to get them back.

Dave

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Feb 24, 2022, 10:51:55 AMFeb 24
to
In article <59bfc8...@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> IIRC you have a an old Synology NAS Dave?

> If so log in,
> Control panel
> File Services
> First tab SMB/AFP/NFS
> Scroll down to the bottom..
> Enable NFS - Apply.

> Bob.

Indeed I do Bob,
Unfortunately, these days I hardly ever use it and I certainly wouldn't
want to have it in action for every day use, it's just soooooo damn slow
to do anything.

Dave

So it seems, to get this easy to set up and use thing working, I need
Sunfish and something called Moonfish installed on RISC OS.

I then need to source an NFS something to install on the Windows side.

My, ain't that just easy peasy... Not. ;-)

How does one find an NFS something to install on Windows?

Looks like another job for Mr Google.

Dave

David Higton

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Feb 24, 2022, 2:47:17 PMFeb 24
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In message <59bf6f6...@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <ne...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> Found Sunfish 2.05 put it in my VRPC-DL RISC OS 6.20
>
> Did the Search for Host and tried with both Hostname and IP address...
> Nothing except an error.
>
> ** WimpError ** from Sunfish
> Error : &00000000
> Message: Error when sending or receiving data (Operation timed out)
>
> Apart from the obvious... I've no idea what that means.
> ?

Are you pointing Sunfish at an NFS server, i.e. some device or computer
that is presenting at least one drive via NFS?

Only some NAS support NFS, and in some cases the support is optional,
i.e. you'd have to enable it. And if you're talking about a Windows
box, AFAIK it wouldn't support NFS unless you added some NFS server
software, which you'd have to search for, so it would be a decision
that you'd be very aware of. (If that's changed in recent years, I'm
happy to be corrected.)

The NAS I'm using is a RasPi 3B+ with OpenMediaVault and two 2.5" WD
portable drives. I've just tried accessing one of them via Sunfish
and can report that it works. I know I enabled NFS in OpenMediaVault.

David

David Higton

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Feb 24, 2022, 2:53:58 PMFeb 24
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In message <59bfd7a...@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <ne...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> So it seems, to get this easy to set up and use thing working, I need
> Sunfish and something called Moonfish installed on RISC OS.

Need both? Depends on what you want to do.

Sunfish is a client - you use that to access a server somewhere, e.g.
your old NAS, or your Windows box with some NFS server software installed.

Moonfish is a server - you use that if you want to share out one or more
drives on your RISC OS box so that some other client can see it/them via
NFS.

I always have Moonfish running, sharing out my desktop RasPi's RAMFS and
HardDisc4 so that the Linux box can see them.

David

Dave

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Feb 24, 2022, 3:47:32 PMFeb 24
to
In article <59bfc8...@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> IIRC you have a an old Synology NAS Dave?

> If so log in,
> Control panel
> File Services
> First tab SMB/AFP/NFS
> Scroll down to the bottom..
> Enable NFS - Apply.

Thanks for that Bob,
Did that, and got a Diskstation icon in the Sunfish NFS servers window.

But that's it, nothing else, when clicked it just brings up a small new
empty filer window.

No idea how it would show the files on the NAS. (Yes lots of files on the
NAS)

Best of all... When I did "Search for host" it totally froze RISC OS, and
I mean totally, requiring an exit by naughty methods.

Enough, enough...! All this aggravation... Simple my arse!

I'm in my mid 70s and the best outcome would be if I die before LM98
ceases to function. :-)
Unfortunately, in my family, folks seem to hang on until in the late 80s.

Dave :-)

David Higton

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Feb 24, 2022, 5:25:09 PMFeb 24
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In message <59bff2b...@triffid.co.uk>
Dave <ne...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <59bfc8...@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
> Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> > IIRC you have a an old Synology NAS Dave?
>
> > If so log in, Control panel File Services First tab SMB/AFP/NFS Scroll
> > down to the bottom.. Enable NFS - Apply.
>
> Thanks for that Bob, Did that, and got a Diskstation icon in the Sunfish
> NFS servers window.
>
> But that's it, nothing else, when clicked it just brings up a small new
> empty filer window.
>
> No idea how it would show the files on the NAS. (Yes lots of files on the
> NAS)
>
> Best of all... When I did "Search for host" it totally froze RISC OS, and I
> mean totally, requiring an exit by naughty methods.

I've emailed you two apps to turn alignment exceptions off and on, in
case this makes a difference.

David

Paul Sprangers

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Feb 24, 2022, 5:41:02 PMFeb 24
to
In article <59bff2b...@triffid.co.uk>,
Dave <ne...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:

> Unfortunately, in my family, folks seem to hang on until in the late 80s.

I'm happy to read that Dave, as I enjoy reading your posts.
As a result of this thread, I also downloaded Sunfish on my Pi4. It runs,
it finds one single map on my QNAP NAS automatically, and I even managed to
write a file to it. But whatever I do next, even just a mouse click, it
will invariably crash Sunfish with a postmortem. Although this is still a
bit better than your experience, it hardly can be called useful.
So, you're not alone.

Kind regards,
Paul

--
http://www.riscos.sprie.nl

Doug Webb

unread,
Feb 24, 2022, 5:59:07 PMFeb 24
to
In message <59bffd1...@sprie.nl>
Check that it's Info box says

2.05 (08 Jun 2013)

If it does not then re read how to get it to that version that I put in an
earlier post or see below:

Obtain a copy via Packman 2.05 which is 2.05 (22 May 2010) or:
Which updates it to 2.05 (08 Jun 2013).

As said before the update to SMB2 or 3 of LanManFS would be good but that
only allows RISC IS to see files on a Windows or Linux system configured
to use Samba and it doesn't allow those systems to see your RISC OS files
unless you have Samba Server running on RISCOS and that is flakey.

Martin

unread,
Feb 24, 2022, 6:44:54 PMFeb 24
to
In article <59bff2b...@triffid.co.uk>,
Dave <ne...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <59bfc8...@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
> Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> > IIRC you have a an old Synology NAS Dave?

> > If so log in,
> > Control panel
> > File Services
> > First tab SMB/AFP/NFS
> > Scroll down to the bottom..
> > Enable NFS - Apply.

> Thanks for that Bob, Did that, and got a Diskstation icon in the
> Sunfish NFS servers window.

> But that's it, nothing else, when clicked it just brings up a small
> new empty filer window.

> No idea how it would show the files on the NAS. (Yes lots of files
> on the NAS)

I have not used Sunfish myself, but I do have a Synology box which I
can connect to using the NFS that is part of a modern OmniClient.

To do that I have to define a mount to NFS which includes
- Name for display on RISC OS
- Server name (ie DiskStation or whetever)
- Directory name, which is the shared folder name on the Synology
- User Name/password for read/write access to that shared folder.

Ie very similar to LanMan[98]

I assume that similar details have to be set in Sunfish for it to
display the mounted folder.

But I also have no bother directly accessing my shared folders on
Win10pro using LanMan98!

--
Martin Avison
Note that unfortunately this email address will become invalid
without notice if (when) any spam is received.

Dave

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 1:52:58 AMFeb 25
to
In article <59c002b6...@avisoft.f9.co.uk>,
Martin <New...@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:
[Snippy]

> I have not used Sunfish myself, but I do have a Synology box which I
> can connect to using the NFS that is part of a modern OmniClient.

> To do that I have to define a mount to NFS which includes
> - Name for display on RISC OS
> - Server name (ie DiskStation or whetever)
> - Directory name, which is the shared folder name on the Synology
> - User Name/password for read/write access to that shared folder.


> Ie very similar to LanMan[98]

> I assume that similar details have to be set in Sunfish for it to
> display the mounted folder.

Unlike LM98... There isn't anywhere in Sunfish to set anything... Well if
there is, I can't find it. (Nothing inside the Appdir nor in the Icon bar
menu).

> But I also have no bother directly accessing my shared folders on
> Win10pro using LanMan98!

Neither do I have any bother ATM., and additionally I have a LM98 disk
configured for the NAS Diskstation so if it is ever on, I can access it
from RISC OS.

If one day in the near future LM98 can no longer do the business, I'm
looking for an alt.

What I need is to find an NFS app for windows, I did try one yesterday
from SourceForge, but as it was a bit old it didn't seem to like Win10 pro.

Thanks for the thoughts.

Dave

Sprow

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 3:03:06 AMFeb 25
to
On Thursday, February 24, 2022 at 11:44:54 PM UTC, Martin wrote:
> In article <59bff2b...@triffid.co.uk>,
> Dave <ne...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <59bfc8...@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
> > Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> > > IIRC you have a an old Synology NAS Dave?
>
> I have not used Sunfish myself, but I do have a Synology box which I
> can connect to using the NFS that is part of a modern OmniClient.
>
> To do that I have to define a mount to NFS which includes
> - Name for display on RISC OS
> - Server name (ie DiskStation or whetever)
> - Directory name, which is the shared folder name on the Synology
> - User Name/password for read/write access to that shared folder.

If you find Sunfish crashy, it's worth giving the NFS client included with RISC OS 5 (though it's not specific to RISC OS 5) a look in as Martin says.
The one bit of instruction he's missed though is that it's turned off in OmniClient by default. To enable it change the line
SetEval Omni$NFS
to 1 in the !Omni.Files.Startup obey file. That causes the NFS client to be loaded after which you can enter the mount details along the lines described above,
Sprow.

Paul Sprangers

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 4:09:08 AMFeb 25
to
In article <37c6febf59...@btinternet.com>,
Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Check that it's Info box says

> 2.05 (08 Jun 2013)

It does. (I already followed your download instructions.)
Although it does make contact to one particular directory on my QNAP NAS,
and although I'm able to read and write from/to that directory, there's
nothing else that I can do that doesn't crash Sunfish immediately. It seems
as if half of the menu entries are missing. For example, 'Edit entry' just
isn't there, nor is the 'name mount window'. The help file talks about
options that I just can't find, while the continuous crashes discourage me
from trying again and again. Could it be the Pi4 (4té actually), that is
too advanced for a program that hasn't been updated for 9 years?

Kind regards,
Paul Sprangers

--
http://www.riscos.sprie.nl

Paul Sprangers

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 4:24:57 AMFeb 25
to
In article <63df4320-7c95-4672...@googlegroups.com>,
Sprow <ne...@sprow.co.uk> wrote:

> SetEval Omni$NFS

My former post crossed yours. Setting Omni$NFS to 1 enables the extra
options indeed. But unfotunately, it doesn't change anything about the
horrible and continuous crashes.

Martin

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 4:49:43 AMFeb 25
to
In article <59c0380...@sprie.nl>,
Paul Sprangers <Pa...@sprie.nl> wrote:
> In article <63df4320-7c95-4672...@googlegroups.com>,
> Sprow <ne...@sprow.co.uk> wrote:

> > SetEval Omni$NFS

> My former post crossed yours. Setting Omni$NFS to 1 enables the
> extra options indeed. But unfotunately, it doesn't change anything
> about the horrible and continuous crashes.

What is crashing horribly?
And how?
I can only find your previous reference to Sunfish crashing.

If you have NFS enabled under OmniClient, you do not need Sunfish
running at all. The mount can be done using OnmiClient, using NFS.

Chris Hughes

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 6:05:29 AMFeb 25
to
In message <63df4320-7c95-4672...@googlegroups.com>
I had forgotten NFS was in OmiClient, that option was already enabled as
it happens after I checked.

But on attempting to access my Synology NAS which is working with Sunfish
after I remembered to enable it in the NAS via NFS in Omniclient and add
permissions.

I get the message "RPC communication failed on the mount" in an error box.

Omniclient 2.28 (15 Mar 18) and NFS 0.71 (29 Jan 18)

Doug Webb

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 6:13:39 AMFeb 25
to
In message <59c0369...@sprie.nl>
Paul Sprangers <Pa...@sprie.nl> wrote:



> It does. (I already followed your download instructions.)
> Although it does make contact to one particular directory on my QNAP NAS,
> and although I'm able to read and write from/to that directory, there's
> nothing else that I can do that doesn't crash Sunfish immediately. It seems
> as if half of the menu entries are missing. For example, 'Edit entry' just
> isn't there, nor is the 'name mount window'. The help file talks about
> options that I just can't find, while the continuous crashes discourage me
> from trying again and again. Could it be the Pi4 (4té actually), that is
> too advanced for a program that hasn't been updated for 9 years?

Ok so if you have browsed for a NFS server it will be in the SunFish
window that has a title like NFS Servers.

You will see the actual server s you can see there most likely with a IP
address.

Select mouse one of them and then hit the Menu mouse button and then
Browse 'IP address' and you can set if the transport is UDP/TCP and also
the NFS level.

If you double click select mouse on the server you then have another
window with a picture of a directory including the sunfish icon in it.

Select that and then mouse menu and edit 'directory name' and you can :

Name export - what it is called
Filename and filetype choices
Connection choices
User id choices

All this is covered in the help file within Sunfish.

Hope this helps.

Paul Sprangers

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 6:27:02 AMFeb 25
to
In article <59c03a52...@avisoft.f9.co.uk>,
Martin <New...@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:

> What is crashing horribly?
> And how?

Apologise, I should have been more specific. And less dramatic.
After having established a connection, Sunfish crashes on nearly every
mouse click, either Menu or Select, either in the filer window or on the
iconbar icon. It just crashes, it doesn't freeze the machine. But the fact
that it happens invariably is quite horrendous for me.

I now realise that I don't need Sunfish at all, but following this thread I
wanted to give it a try. Anyhow, just having learned that Omni supports NFC
as well is appeasing for ignorant souls like me.

Doug Webb

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 6:37:06 AMFeb 25
to
In message <8e0841c0...@mytarbis.plus.com>
Chris Hughes <new...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:



> I get the message "RPC communication failed on the mount" in an error box.

> Omniclient 2.28 (15 Mar 18) and NFS 0.71 (29 Jan 18)

Most likely you have not enter the correct details.


Just tried it to Moonfish running on another machine here:

Server Name - Used IP address or can use it's name
Directory Path - Put in the directory name that is being exported in this
case 'NFS'
User name - used 'nobody'

And it is connected but you don't get the same flexibility that SunFish
provides on NFS versions/transport type udp/TCP etc

I have tried this on an ARMX6 and RaspberryPi4 and no crashes :-)

Hope this helps

Paul Sprangers

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 6:42:22 AMFeb 25
to
In article <658541c059...@btinternet.com>,
Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Ok so if you have browsed for a NFS server it will be in the SunFish
> window that has a title like NFS Servers.

> You will see the actual server s you can see there most likely with a IP
> address.

> Select mouse one of them and then hit the Menu mouse button and then
> Browse 'IP address' and you can set if the transport is UDP/TCP and also
> the NFS level.

> If you double click select mouse on the server you then have another
> window with a picture of a directory including the sunfish icon in it.

> Select that and then mouse menu and edit 'directory name' and you can :

> Name export - what it is called
> Filename and filetype choices
> Connection choices
> User id choices

Apologise for the extensive quote, but all of this happens exactly as you
describe. The only thing is that whatever I do next, for example a rename
in the 'Name export...' entry, Sunfish crashes. By continuously rerunning
Sunfish I eventually managed to rename the iconbar icon into something more
meaningful, but the frequent crashes hold me back from exploring the
program any further. It even crashes when I click in this Pluto window!

> All this is covered in the help file within Sunfish.

This may come as a surprise, but I did read the help file. It just didn't
help me to prevent the crashes.

Doug Webb

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 6:46:33 AMFeb 25
to
In message <59c0369...@sprie.nl>
Paul Sprangers <Pa...@sprie.nl> wrote:
> Could it be the Pi4 (4té actually), that is
> too advanced for a program that hasn't been updated for 9 years?

It could be a factor and perhaps a recompile of the sources, which are
freely available, using the latest ROOL DDE may help.

The other thing is my Pi4 is running RISCOS 5.29 (6 Feb 2022) version.

There was some issues in earlier ROM's that caused system crashes on use
of menu which have been fixed in recent beta's.

Paul Sprangers

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 7:01:32 AMFeb 25
to
In article <e20845c059...@btinternet.com>,
Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:

> The other thing is my Pi4 is running RISCOS 5.29 (6 Feb 2022) version.

Mine is 5.29 too, but exactly one year older

> There was some issues in earlier ROM's that caused system crashes on use
> of menu which have been fixed in recent beta's.

Perhaps, but I don't encounter system crashes on use of Menu at all, not
with nor without Sunfish. Sunfish just crashes alone, also with Select,
leaving the system intact.

Anyhow, I have a RComp 4té, and I rather wait for Andrew to come with a
tailored update. If that happens, I will try Sunfish again and let you
know.

Chris Hughes

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 7:40:30 AMFeb 25
to
In message <1c2b44c059...@btinternet.com>
Doug Webb <doug....@btinternet.com> wrote:

> In message <8e0841c0...@mytarbis.plus.com>
> Chris Hughes <new...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:



>> I get the message "RPC communication failed on the mount" in an error box.

>> Omniclient 2.28 (15 Mar 18) and NFS 0.71 (29 Jan 18)

> Most likely you have not enter the correct details.


> Just tried it to Moonfish running on another machine here:

> Server Name - Used IP address or can use it's name
> Directory Path - Put in the directory name that is being exported in this
> case 'NFS'
> User name - used 'nobody'

I am talking to a Synology NAS not moonfish so may well not be the same.

> And it is connected but you don't get the same flexibility that SunFish
> provides on NFS versions/transport type udp/TCP etc

Yes interesting differences.

> I have tried this on an ARMX6 and RaspberryPi4 and no crashes :-)

Since i have the new front end that is ARMv7 safe, no more crashes.

Thanks for trying.

Brian Howlett

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 12:04:25 PMFeb 25
to
On 25 Feb, Sprow <ne...@sprow.co.uk> wrote:

> If you find Sunfish crashy, it's worth giving the NFS client included with
> RISC OS 5 (though it's not specific to RISC OS 5) a look in as Martin
> says.
> The one bit of instruction he's missed though is that it's turned off in
> OmniClient by default. To enable it change the line
> SetEval Omni$NFS
> to 1 in the !Omni.Files.Startup obey file. That causes the NFS client to
> be loaded after which you can enter the mount details along the lines
> described above,

Tried that but the module is not present here - RO 5.28 on Titanium.

Error from (unknown): File '<Omni$Dir>.RMStore.NFS' not found

Any idea where I can get the file?
--
Brian Howlett - Email to From: address deleted unseen
-----------------------------------------------------
My net income doesn't cover my gross habits...

Doug Webb

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 12:41:25 PMFeb 25
to
In message <1f1b62c059...@bhowlett.plus.net>
Brian Howlett <news-s...@brianhowlett.me.uk> wrote:


> Tried that but the module is not present here - RO 5.28 on Titanium.

> Error from (unknown): File '<Omni$Dir>.RMStore.NFS' not found

> Any idea where I can get the file?

You may have an old set of hard disc files so pop over to the "ROOL
downloads":https://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/common
site and then download the latest HardDisc4 Nightly Beta Build , change
the file type to &FFC , double select on it and then extract the
OminiClient from the disc build and copy it over your copy.

Repeat the changes to the Startup file and you should be OK then.

Kevin Wells

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 6:26:50 PMFeb 25
to
>On 25 Feb, Sprow <ne...@sprow.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> If you find Sunfish crashy, it's worth giving the NFS client included with
>> RISC OS 5 (though it's not specific to RISC OS 5) a look in as Martin
>> says.
>> The one bit of instruction he's missed though is that it's turned off in
>> OmniClient by default. To enable it change the line
>> SetEval Omni$NFS
>> to 1 in the !Omni.Files.Startup obey file. That causes the NFS client to
>> be loaded after which you can enter the mount details along the lines
>> described above,
>
>Tried that but the module is not present here - RO 5.28 on Titanium.
>
>Error from (unknown): File '<Omni$Dir>.RMStore.NFS' not found
>
>Any idea where I can get the file?

Try here:

<https://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/common>

HardDisc4 Inside the apps directory.

--
Kev Wells
http://kevsoft.co.uk/ https://ko-fi.com/kevsoft
carpe cervisium
Real Stupidity beat Artificial Intelligence 11 times out of 10.

Brian Howlett

unread,
Feb 25, 2022, 6:46:31 PMFeb 25
to
On 25 Feb, Kevin Wells <k...@kevsoft.co.uk> wrote:

> Try here:

> <https://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/common>

> HardDisc4 Inside the apps directory.

Thanks - I have it now and just need a bit of time to have a play with it.
Got it connecting to my Synology NAS box so far.
--
Brian Howlett - Email to From: address deleted unseen
-----------------------------------------------------
Karl Marx's grave. Just another Communist Plot?

Sprow

unread,
Feb 26, 2022, 3:29:31 AMFeb 26
to
In message <8e0841c0...@mytarbis.plus.com> Chris Hughes <new...@noonehere.co.uk> wrote:
> I get the message "RPC communication failed on the mount" in an error box.
> Omniclient 2.28 (15 Mar 18) and NFS 0.71 (29 Jan 18)

Those are oddly old versions, maybe you missed an update? I'd have expected OmniNFS 0.73 (Jan 2020). OmniNFS doesn't do much, the real work is done by 'RMStore.NFS' which is also needed...

> In message <1f1b62c059...@bhowlett.plus.net> Brian Howlett <news-s...@brianhowlett.me.uk> wrote:
> > Error from (unknown): File '<Omni$Dir>.RMStore.NFS' not found
> > Any idea where I can get the file?
> Try here:
> https://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/common
>
> HardDisc4 Inside the apps directory.

The standard set of ROOL apps (aside from !Boot) are also packaged as individual ZIPs, so you can avoid downloading the entire disc image by going to
https://packages.riscosopen.org/rool/ABCIndex.html

in this case scroll to "OmniClient". Of course there's no harm downloading the entire disc image either!
Sprow.

Paul Sprangers

unread,
Feb 26, 2022, 4:29:02 AMFeb 26
to
In article <59c0b5...@sick-of-spam.invalid>,
Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> I've got sunfish working but not Omni.
> There doesn't appear to be any useful help information within the app.

I can only describe how I managed to get an NFS connection with Omni:
From the iconbar menu go to Mounts -> Protocols -> NFS
Now enter...

Name: <the name that you want to see on the iconbar>
Server name: <the IP adress of your NAS>
Directory path: <the directory name, without slashes. Mine is Public>

... and leave all other entries blanc.
I then get a special NFS icon on the iconbar that connects me to the Public
directory on the NAS.

I haven't done anything on the NAS itself. Apparently, my NAS allows an NFS
connection to the Public directory by default. For all other directories,
I'll probably have to do it myself. I just have yet to find out how.

Kind regards,
Paul Spranges

--
http://www.riscos.sprie.nl