Some questions about RISC OS Internet Stack

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Thomas Milius

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Jun 3, 2011, 11:14:37 AM6/3/11
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During the last weeks I tried to get Internet access using a borrowed USB
surf stick from Vodafone equiped with my O2 prepaid card on my BeagleBoard xM
latest RISC OS 5.17 version.

Even a crude mixture of two selfwritten modules, a simple selfwritten
terminal program to enter AT-Commands and old Castles PPP module in
conjunction with a couple of taskwindows came out it seems to do its job, but
extremly slowly and after some webpages timeout limits are reached.

Also ping times of 4000ms and more are a bit strange. I assume I am still
doing something wrong.

Ok PPP is manipulated by a small selfwritten module taking the OS_GBPB
operations and mapping them to the USB connections etc. PPP is from 2001 and
32Bit but not necassarily ARMv7 compatible. However overall with the latest
version I don't have any hints that the USB transfer crashes or something
like this. Everything looks good even I won't exclude that I made a mistake.

I assume that I am doing something wrong with the RISC OS internet
configuration. Perhaps someone can help me and tell me how to setup:

I have configurated the machine in such a way that I am using my NAS and the
default route has been set up to DSL-Router. Everything works fine.

Now I am starting parallel the USB surf stick access. PPP with defaultroute
option and a fictive remote number IP 10.64.64.64 for O2 doesn't seems to
deliver one. To avoid problems with the existing default route to my DSL
router I have to remove this before by using a

route delete default

Of course I have to move the name server also from the DSL-Router to the new
wireless connection:

Set Inet$Resolvers 62.134.11.4

Resolverconfig

However even a direct ping to 62.134.11.4 is extremly slow even it variies
from 500ms to 4000ms and more from session to session. The transmission
itself seems to be quite fast. But there seems to be extrem delays.

After terminating the PPP connection entirely frustrated I am switching back
the settings to usual ones:

route add default IP_of_DSL_Router

Set Inet$Resolvers IP_of_DSL_Router

Resolverconfig

However even this time it takes a little eternity until RISC OS activates the
name look up and routing to the DSL router. Afterwards it operates fast as
usual with it. So I am assuming that the IP-stack internally still tries to
access to DSL-router after starting the wireless session and vice versa. I
can access the NAS and its drives during the whole wireless time without any
problems.

Do I have to flush something?

Many thanks for any hints/ideas in advance.

Best Regards

Thomas Milius

Theo Markettos

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Jun 3, 2011, 7:48:09 PM6/3/11
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Thomas Milius <Thomas...@t-online.de> wrote:
> However even this time it takes a little eternity until RISC OS activates
> the name look up and routing to the DSL router. Afterwards it operates
> fast as usual with it. So I am assuming that the IP-stack internally still
> tries to access to DSL-router after starting the wireless session and vice
> versa. I can access the NAS and its drives during the whole wireless time
> without any problems.

Hmm... I can't see anything you've done wrong there. If this wasn't RISC OS
I'd suggest problems with IPv6, but no chance of that. What does
*inetstat -r -n
say (I think that's the right syntax for printing the routing table, I can't
remember the difference between BSD/RISC OS syntax and Linux syntax). Wierd
symptoms like you've mentioned might well be routing issues.

As an aside, USB dongles pretend to implement a USB serial interface, but
don't actually serialise data. So the baud rate doesn't matter, data just
goes as fast as it can (up to 20Mbps). I could see some terminal programs
might try sending stuff with timing based on what they think the RISC OS
baud rate is, which might potentially confuse things. But it doesn't look
it in your case.

> Do I have to flush something?

Can't think of anything...

Theo

Thomas Milius

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Jun 4, 2011, 8:38:57 AM6/4/11
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In message <1lo*UY...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> Thomas Milius <Thomas...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
> ...


>
> I'd suggest problems with IPv6, but no chance of that. What does
> *inetstat -r -n

Routing tables

Internet:
Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire
default 192.168.1.128 UGSc 10 0 ej0
1.255.255.255 link#2 UHLW 1 7 ej0
127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 0 0 lo0
192.168 192.168.1.128 UGSc 0 0 ej0 =>
192.168/16 link#2 UC 0 0 ej0
192.168.1.8 Mac_of_ny_NAS UHLW 3 458707 ej0
192.168.1.128 Mac_of_my_VPN UHLW 13 53 ej0
192.168.255.255 link#2 UHLW 1 418 ej0

the default is removed manually with

route delete default

before initiating the USB surf stick connection.

PPP adds automatically a 10.64.64.64 for ppp here after a successful
conection and removes this automatically after end of the connection.

Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire
default 10.64.64.64 UGc 1 15 ppp0

The 192.168.1.128 entry is kept. Perhaps a mistake of myself.

Also doubtful is usage of PPP remote adress 10.64.64.64. However I wasn't
able to force O2 to asign a real addresss to me. I took the 10.64.64.64 from
an internet thread.

After ending the connection I am typing

route add default 192.168.1.128

and with a bit delay it will switch routing back to usual DSL way.

>
> As an aside, USB dongles pretend to implement a USB serial interface, but
> don't actually serialise data. So the baud rate doesn't matter, data just
> goes as fast as it can (up to 20Mbps). I could see some terminal programs
> might try sending stuff with timing based on what they think the RISC OS
> baud rate is, which might potentially confuse things. But it doesn't look
> it in your case.

I don't know whetehr the Baud rate has an influence but is doesn't think so.
One of my modules emulates this. One time I used 19200 and one time 192000. I
didn't note a diference.

Best Regards

Thomas Milius

Thomas Milius

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Jun 4, 2011, 10:07:33 AM6/4/11
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In message <03cc10de...@thomas-milius.t-online.de>
Thomas Milius <Thomas...@t-online.de> wrote:

> In message <1lo*UY...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>


> > *inetstat -r -n
>
> Routing tables
>
> Internet:
> Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif
> Expire

> default 192.168.1.128 UGSc 10 0 ej0
> 1.255.255.255 link#2 UHLW 1 7 ej0
> 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 0 0 lo0
> 192.168 192.168.1.128 UGSc 0 0 ej0 =>
> 192.168/16 link#2 UC 0 0 ej0

Removing this ^

> 192.168.1.8 Mac_of_ny_NAS UHLW 3 458707 ej0
> 192.168.1.128 Mac_of_my_VPN UHLW 13 53 ej0

Removing this ^

> 192.168.255.255 link#2 UHLW 1 418 ej0

Removing this ^

Did it. I obtained a good and expensive connection. I checked some smaller
RISC OS Websites (totally around 150k of downlaod incl. DNS resolution).
They worked this time without problems. I didn't dare to invoke larger
Websites because I am afraid of the costs. If available DSL is definitely the
better and cheaper choice ...

Best Regards

Thomas Milius

Jess

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Jun 5, 2011, 4:11:17 AM6/5/11
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In message <8de818de...@thomas-milius.t-online.de>
Thomas Milius <Thomas...@t-online.de> wrote:

> Did it. I obtained a good and expensive connection. I checked some smaller
> RISC OS Websites (totally around 150k of downlaod incl. DNS resolution).
> They worked this time without problems. I didn't dare to invoke larger
> Websites because I am afraid of the costs. If available DSL is definitely the
> better and cheaper choice ...

Three provide free access to http://0.facebook.com and also to part of
their own site.

I think they will send you sims for free.

--
Jess Iyonix

druck

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Jun 5, 2011, 3:17:11 PM6/5/11
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On 03/06/2011 16:14, Thomas Milius wrote:
> During the last weeks I tried to get Internet access using a borrowed USB
> surf stick from Vodafone equiped with my O2 prepaid card on my BeagleBoard xM
> latest RISC OS 5.17 version.
>
> Even a crude mixture of two selfwritten modules, a simple selfwritten
> terminal program to enter AT-Commands and old Castles PPP module in
> conjunction with a couple of taskwindows came out it seems to do its job, but
> extremly slowly and after some webpages timeout limits are reached.

Internet stack and taskwindows rings alarm bells. Judicious use of
UpCalls to yield might be necessary to avoid glacial performance.
Too long since I did any of thins to offer specific advice though.

---druck

Jess Hampshire

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Jun 18, 2011, 1:32:22 PM6/18/11
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In message <89207cd...@itworkshop.invalid>
Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I just tested this with debian linux, and the option "Handsets" (as
opposed to "Internet") gave access to it plus mobile.three.co.uk and a
special ebay domain, on a SIM with no credit.

This should be idea for testing.

--
Jess Hampshire

Plain text emails with interleaved, trimmed replies please. (RFC 1855)

Theo Markettos

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Jun 18, 2011, 6:46:28 PM6/18/11
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Jess Hampshire <jessha...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> I just tested this with debian linux, and the option "Handsets" (as
> opposed to "Internet") gave access to it plus mobile.three.co.uk and a
> special ebay domain, on a SIM with no credit.
>
> This should be idea for testing.

Not really, because Thomas is (I assume) in Germany, where Three doesn't
exist :)

Theo

cfe...@freeremoveuk.com.invalid

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Jun 19, 2011, 5:02:45 AM6/19/11
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In message <2b5d61e...@itworkshop.invalid>
Jess Hampshire <jessha...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> In message <89207cd...@itworkshop.invalid>
> Jess <phant...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In message <8de818de...@thomas-milius.t-online.de>
> > Thomas Milius <Thomas...@t-online.de> wrote:
>

[snip]


>
> I just tested this with debian linux, and the option "Handsets" (as
> opposed to "Internet") gave access to it plus mobile.three.co.uk and
> a special ebay domain, on a SIM with no credit.
>
> This should be idea for testing.
>

Is this a volunteer stepping up to test with the Iyo - should be very
handy addition - when the Genesi Smartbook/RO5 is working - hopefully by
the end of this summer - according the the developer.

I use a 3G USB/Mobile/Server for this - and it works well.

Router starts up in about the same time as the RPC.

That should be 2G I suppose - the USB stick needs a direction aerial
(any ideas) to get the full 3G signal from a more distant mast.

Bye
--
Colin Ferris Cornwall UK

Robin Hounsome

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Jun 19, 2011, 5:26:32 AM6/19/11
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In article <ee8ab6e55...@cferris.freeuk.com>,
<cfe...@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid> wrote:

> That should be 2G I suppose - the USB stick needs a direction aerial
> (any ideas) to get the full 3G signal from a more distant mast.

Take a look here:

http://www.solwise.co.uk/3g-intro.htm

HTH

Robin

--
Remote - http://www.hounsome.org.uk
TV display software for the Iyonix

Thomas Milius

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Jun 19, 2011, 6:25:50 AM6/19/11
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Meanwhile Raik Fischer was so pleased to obtain a special surftarif from his
provider. He is connecting for 15 Minutes and so the costs unitl now are
acceptable.

It seems that the connection works stable meanwhile. Raik made it to access
various internet pages and tried a download of a Beagle ROM 5.17 image
without problems. He obtained a transmission rate of 110KByte/s which should
give a connection speed of around 1MBit/s. Of course his regular DSL access
is faster.

He is doing the tests because he wants to buy an ARM based portable if one
should be available and wants to ensure that he will be able to communicate
then with it.

My motivation is similar. My small pocket computer is running for 7 years
now. I had to repair and modify it and until now it is doing its job but I
fear in one year I shall need a replacement.

In the moment I am writing some small tools to allow an easy access to the
connection and to use some other features of such sticks like SMS. Great
would be to obtain a classic mobil phone connection.

Best Regards

Thomas Milius

Alan Adams

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Jun 19, 2011, 6:57:28 AM6/19/11
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In message <ee8ab6e55...@cferris.freeuk.com>
cfe...@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid wrote:

There have been reports that a Pringles can can help - they are foil
lined.

Alan


--
Alan Adams, from Northamptonshire
al...@adamshome.org.uk
http://www.nckc.org.uk/

cfe...@freeremoveuk.com.invalid

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Jun 19, 2011, 7:59:03 AM6/19/11
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In message <51e5b8b...@hounsome.org.uk>
Robin Hounsome <ro...@hounsome.org.uk> wrote:

> In article <ee8ab6e55...@cferris.freeuk.com>,
> <cfe...@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > That should be 2G I suppose - the USB stick needs a direction aerial
> > (any ideas) to get the full 3G signal from a more distant mast.
>
> Take a look here:
>
> http://www.solwise.co.uk/3g-intro.htm
>

Thanks for that info - I've seen pages like it before - but which to
choose - it all works at the moment - just 2G from the local Tx.

With the Win/Pc USB - a max length USB cable 5M - I could get about one
bar 3G - the cable length allows more convenient placing of USB stick.

Using the Router - the max cable length - is about 1M - the longer cable
didn't work :-(

The some USB sticks come with a aerial socket - some you have to a
'band aid connection' around the stick.

The aerials - look like YAGA - for 2GHz.

Some have made up a DIY aerial.

Theo Markettos

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Jun 19, 2011, 2:08:14 PM6/19/11
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Thomas Milius <Thomas...@t-online.de> wrote:
> In the moment I am writing some small tools to allow an easy access to the
> connection and to use some other features of such sticks like SMS. Great
> would be to obtain a classic mobil phone connection.

You mean an internet connection via a mobile phone, or voice calling
with a dongle?

A mobile phone should plug in just like a dongle, I think. It may provide
some extra USB devices for accessing photos/etc, but you should be able to
use it like a modem (Nokia 5230 provides /dev/ttyACMx on Linux, for
example).

Using dongles for voice calling is something I've looked for and failed. The
hardware is there, so it should just be a case of plugging in a headset -
but none support this. Best I found was a Huawei B220 router - this
essentially has a E220 dongle inside, but also provides an RJ11 socket on to
plug a landline phone in to make GSM calls. But it's a router-sized box,
not a dongle.

Theo

Rick Murray

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Jun 19, 2011, 2:18:48 PM6/19/11
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On 19/06/2011 20:08, Theo Markettos wrote:

> Using dongles for voice calling is something I've looked for and failed.

You mean making calls from the computer using a mobile phone?

With my DEFY, I just get the computer (XP SP3) to behave as a bluetooth
headset, so I can listen to and talk from the computer. A bit of a
cheat, but it works well enough.

Just a shame I can't record music (webradio) played through the computer
via Bluetooth. It seems as if the BT driver talks directly to the audio
driver (some Realtek HD audio thingy) so interception doesn't look
likely. Oh well.


Best wishes,

Rick.

Theo Markettos

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Jun 19, 2011, 3:13:50 PM6/19/11
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Rick Murray <heyrickma...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 19/06/2011 20:08, Theo Markettos wrote:
>
> > Using dongles for voice calling is something I've looked for and failed.
>
> You mean making calls from the computer using a mobile phone?

No, making GSM calls from a computer using a dongle (not a mobile), without
using VOIP. The GSM hardware is all there on the dongle, but there's no way
to get at it.

One particular interest here was making GSM voice calls from an old Android
1.5 tablet that didn't have any kind of GSM hardware. I couldn't get enough
info on the Android GSM stack to find any means of fitting other hardware
(eg a USB dongle). Subsequently I've found no way to access voice
features on GSM dongles on any OS.

> With my DEFY, I just get the computer (XP SP3) to behave as a bluetooth
> headset, so I can listen to and talk from the computer. A bit of a
> cheat, but it works well enough.

Another option in this respect is to use Asterisk's bluetooth driver, so you
can use a cheap mobile (eg ancient Nokia) as a VOIP-GSM gateway. I haven't
tried it, but that could be handy on an telephone exchange system (where you
get XXX outbound mobile mins per month on a contract at a cheaper rate than
you can buy from a VOIP provider).

> Just a shame I can't record music (webradio) played through the computer
> via Bluetooth. It seems as if the BT driver talks directly to the audio
> driver (some Realtek HD audio thingy) so interception doesn't look
> likely. Oh well.

I had a similar mess trying to get Skype audio plumbed into a SIP driver on
Linux - I managed to break audio for the rest of the machine too (rather
annoying as it was being an internet radio at the time).

Theo

Thomas Milius

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Jun 19, 2011, 3:41:07 PM6/19/11
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In message <Iay*d7...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> Thomas Milius <Thomas...@t-online.de> wrote:
> > In the moment I am writing some small tools to allow an easy access to
> > the connection and to use some other features of such sticks like SMS.
> > Great would be to obtain a classic mobil phone connection.
>
> You mean an internet connection via a mobile phone, or voice calling
> with a dongle?
>

If possible I would like to do so with a regular USB surf stick not using
VOIP. I am uncertain whether this is possible. However the sticks are acting
as AT-modems and I can renember that my old classical ELSA modem provided a
mode which allowed you to sent voice data to the modem and on the other side
receive it from the modem eg. to emulate a telephone answering machine.

I shall have to see whether something like this is implemented.

Best Regards

Thomas Milius

Thomas Milius

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Jun 19, 2011, 4:13:01 PM6/19/11
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In message <c8fcf0e5...@thomas-milius.t-online.de>
Thomas Milius <Thomas...@t-online.de> wrote:

> In message <Iay*d7...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
> Theo Markettos <theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Thomas Milius <Thomas...@t-online.de> wrote:
> > > In the moment I am writing some small tools to allow an easy access to
> > > the connection and to use some other features of such sticks like SMS.
> > > Great would be to obtain a classic mobil phone connection.
> >
> > You mean an internet connection via a mobile phone, or voice calling
> > with a dongle?
> >
>
> If possible I would like to do so with a regular USB surf stick not using
> VOIP. I am uncertain whether this is possible. However the sticks are
> acting as AT-modems and I can renember that my old classical ELSA modem
> provided a mode which allowed you to sent voice data to the modem and on
> the other side receive it from the modem eg. to emulate a telephone
> answering machine.
>
> I shall have to see whether something like this is implemented.
>

I just did an

AT+FCLASS=?

on my USB surf stick.

It returns supported classes 0-1. So a voice modem (should be class 8) seems
not to be supported :-(. So at least for my borrowed USB surf stick voice
over IP would be the only alternative.

Best Regards

Thomas Milius

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