A7000 problem

[Tudor Hughes]

My A7000 has become extremely slow and intractable. After
switching on there is a brief appearance of a white-on-black BASIC-
type screen which after a few seconds shows the Acorn logo with the
Initialising..., which lasts for a good minute, followed by the
appearance of the Drive 4 Icon. Clicking on this produces after again
nearly a minute a Disc Error 21 at 4/0000000000000006. The floppy
drive icon does not appear even if the machine is configured for Drive
0 and Boot is enabled.

I use the machine only in BASIC or BASIC64 with programs on
floppies but am nowhere near getting it to work again. The problem
started when I entered *Co. Drive 4 so I could use BASIC 64. It is
possible I made typo when doing that. I have checked the battery and
it is clean and not leaking all over the motherboard.

I have no idea what to do now - any suggestions? Has the hard
drive had it, or possibly the floppy drive?

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

[Bryan Hogan]

In message <2813d14b-3f06-4e70...@v17g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

Tudor Hughes <tudo...@aol.com> wrote:

> My A7000 has become extremely slow and intractable. After
> switching on there is a brief appearance of a white-on-black BASIC-
> type screen which after a few seconds shows the Acorn logo with the
> Initialising..., which lasts for a good minute, followed by the
> appearance of the Drive 4 Icon.

That does sound like the symptoms of a machine trying to talk to a
drive, failing, and eventually timing out.

> Clicking on this produces after again nearly a minute a Disc
> Error 21 at 4/0000000000000006.

And that's not good :-(

Can you hear the drive spin up when the machine is turned on?

> The floppy drive icon does not appear even if the machine is
> configured for Drive 0 and Boot is enabled.

That's odd though, as I don't think there is any link between the
floppy and hard drive. Unless ADFS is just giving up completely
after trying the hard disc.

> The problem started when I entered *Co. Drive 4 so I could use
> BASIC 64. It is possible I made typo when doing that.

I doubt that is the cause of the problem.

> I have checked the battery and it is clean and not leaking all
> over the motherboard.

Some good news!

> I have no idea what to do now - any suggestions? Has the
> hard drive had it, or possibly the floppy drive?
>
> Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

If you could bring the machine along to ROUGOL next Monday we could
have a look at it, maybe plug the hard disc into our RiscPC to see
if it is readable? Details on the website, see sig.

And if replacement parts are needed, Chris Evans will be on hand to
provide them :-)

Bryan.

--
RISC OS User Group Of London - http://www.rougol.jellybaby.net/
RISC OS London Show - http://www.riscoslondonshow.co.uk/

[Tudor Hughes]

On Jun 12, 2:05 am, Bryan Hogan <s...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
> In message <2813d14b-3f06-4e70-b736-ca64013a8...@v17g2000vba.googlegroups.com>

Thanks for your help. I now feel a bit of a prat
because I discovered that after reassembling the machine after
checking the battery wasn't leaking I found the ribbon cable to the
Hard Drive was disconnected (I'm not sure how) though an extension
still went to the CD drive. Rather surprising that anything worked at
all. Having fixed that and configured Drive 0 I find that startup
comes to a screeching halt with "Disc Drive Not Known" this of course
being the Floppy Drive 0. Earlier, by configuring Drive 4 I had
confirmed the number of floppy drives as 1.

So it could be that it's the floppy drive that has gone. The
Hard Drive seems OK now that I have connected it and if Drive 4 is
configured the hard drive operates normally but no floppy icon
appears. I'm sure Chris Evans can sell me a floppy drive or could I
rip one out of an old PC and put it in?

I like the sound of ROUGOL but it's unlikely I'll be able to
make it because Monday night is Big Band night (trombone, for my sins)
unless I can get from West Wickham to Borough in less than about 40
minutes in the car and get the last knockings, so to speak.

Again, thanks for your help.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

[Chris Evans]

In <URL:news:comp.sys.acorn.misc> on Wed 12 Jun, Tudor Hughes wrote:
> On Jun 12, 2:05 am, Bryan Hogan <s...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

...

> > If you could bring the machine along to ROUGOL next Monday we could
> > have a look at it, maybe plug the hard disc into our RiscPC to see
> > if it is readable? Details on the website, see sig.
> >
> > And if replacement parts are needed, Chris Evans will be on hand to
> > provide them :-)
> >
> > Bryan.
>

> Thanks for your help. I now feel a bit of a prat
> because I discovered that after reassembling the machine after
> checking the battery wasn't leaking I found the ribbon cable to the
> Hard Drive was disconnected (I'm not sure how) though an extension
> still went to the CD drive. Rather surprising that anything worked at
> all. Having fixed that and configured Drive 0 I find that startup
> comes to a screeching halt with "Disc Drive Not Known" this of course
> being the Floppy Drive 0. Earlier, by configuring Drive 4 I had
> confirmed the number of floppy drives as 1.
>
> So it could be that it's the floppy drive that has gone. The
> Hard Drive seems OK now that I have connected it and if Drive 4 is
> configured the hard drive operates normally but no floppy icon
> appears. I'm sure Chris Evans can sell me a floppy drive or could I
> rip one out of an old PC and put it in?

PC floppy drives are normally hard wired to be drive 1 with the twist in a
standard PC floppy cable resetting the drive indentity.

We have suitable drives in stock!

> I like the sound of ROUGOL but it's unlikely I'll be able to
> make it because Monday night is Big Band night (trombone, for my sins)
> unless I can get from West Wickham to Borough in less than about 40
> minutes in the car and get the last knockings, so to speak.

Chris Evans

--
CJE Micro's / 4D 'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222 Fax: 01903 523679
ch...@cjemicros.co.uk http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

[Bryn Evans]

In a mad moment - Tudor Hughes mumbled :

> On Jun 12, 2:05 am, Bryan Hogan <s...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>> In message <2813d14b-3f06-4e70-b736-ca64013a8...@v17g2000vba.googlegro
>> ups.com>
>>           Tudor Hughes <tudor...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>>         My A7000 has become extremely slow and intractable.  After
>>> switching on there is a brief appearance of a white-on-black BASIC-
>>> type screen which after a few seconds shows the Acorn logo with the
>>> Initialising..., which lasts for a good minute, followed by the
>>> appearance of the Drive 4 Icon.
>>
>> That does sound like the symptoms of a machine trying to talk to a
>> drive, failing, and eventually timing out.
>>

[snip]

> Thanks for your help. I now feel a bit of a prat
> because I discovered that after reassembling the machine after
> checking the battery wasn't leaking I found the ribbon cable to the
> Hard Drive was disconnected (I'm not sure how) though an extension
> still went to the CD drive. Rather surprising that anything worked at
> all. Having fixed that and configured Drive 0 I find that startup
> comes to a screeching halt with "Disc Drive Not Known" this of course
> being the Floppy Drive 0. Earlier, by configuring Drive 4 I had
> confirmed the number of floppy drives as 1.

Just a thought, go back into the case and double check that the ribbon
cable to the Floppy Disc is Firmly seated at Both ends.
--
|)    [
|)ryn [vans mail to - Bryn...@bryork.freeuk.com

[Jim Nagel]

Bryn Evans wrote on 12 Jun:

> Just a thought, go back into the case and double check that the ribbon
> cable to the Floppy Disc is Firmly seated at Both ends.

I have found over the years that some drives have sockets with no
notch or other sort of "key", so that it is too easy to plug the cable
in the wrong way up. I now routinely make a red-felt-tip mark on the
drive to indicate where the red edge of the ribbon cable should go/
(And this red mark is easier for ageing eyesight to see than a tiny
notch in black plastic.)

Of course now that Tudor has once unplugged the cable it's too late
for him to make a definitive mark. But some of his symptoms sound
like those I recall when I had my floppy cable upside-down.


--
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
>> "from" address is genuine but will change. website has current one.

[Tudor Hughes]

> >> "from" address is genuine but will change.  website has current one.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, getting the cable the right way round was a problem.
One way round the floppy drive light came on, the other way round,
nothing. But in neither case did the computer recognise the drive.

I tried the floppy drives from two old PC's I have but
neither worked. They have the twist in a few wires in the the cable
mentioned elsewhere. These cables could not be used because at both
ends one socket is blanked, corresponding to the absence of a pin in
the drive socket.

I now await the arrival of a new floppy drive from CJE
Micros. If that doesn't solve the problem I really am stuck.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

[Tudor Hughes]

> Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

The new floppy drive arrived this afternoon - thanks, Chris, for
such promptitude. However, it has made no difference at all. The
machine does not recognise it. The drive light comes on OK but that's
all. There is no floppy icon on the desktop despite being configured
for one floppy drive. The hard drive icon is there OK.
The problem arose initially during switching from ordinary BASIC
to BASIC64 which involves configuring Drive 4, adjusting FREE/NEXT
then clicking on the floppy icon followed by running the !boot file on
the floppy. The floppy icon did not appear.
I am beginning to suspect a motherboard or hard drive problem.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey

[lee shepherd]

Hi Tudor,

I'd be very surprised if it was a motherboard failure... but its not
impossible.

A couple of things to check...

Is the drive definitely plugged in correctly?

The red strip on the data cable goes nearest to the power connector on
the back of the floppy.

If it is all plugged in correctly the drive light should flash briefly
on power up. If it does this its not likely to be the floppy
controller.

Its sounds like its a corrupt CMOS setting thats causing this... I'd
try a delete power on next (hold down the DEL key whilst powering on
the computer)

If that doesn't work my next point of call would be the data cable.

Let me know how you get on.

Lee

[Tudor Hughes]

Hi Lee,

The data cable can fit either way into the PCB and the drive. I've
tried all four possible combinations and if it is "wrong" no light
appears on the floppy drive. If "right" the floppy light comes on and
stays on.

A power on + DELETE makes no difference.

The data cable looks OK - no physical damage and I examined the
sockets at the ends with a powerful lens - again all looked OK.

Thanks for your input.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

[Folderol]

If the floppy light comes on and stays on that is in fact the *wrong* way
round.

--
W J G

[Bryn Evans]

In a mad moment - Tudor Hughes mumbled :

[snip]

>>
>> If it is all plugged in correctly the drive light should flash briefly
>> on power up. If it does this its not likely to be the floppy
>> controller.
>

[snip]

You say that one way the Drive light comes on and stays on.

This is a definite indication that one end of the cable is fitted
Upside Down!

The Red stripe is probably on the correct side in relation to the
motherboard and also the drive - BUT, at one end or the other (and it
doesn't usually matter which end) the cable is being presented to the
socket from the wrong direction.

There are two ways the ribbon can approach the socket.
1. Coming in Flat across the pcb by the most direct route.
( Like an L on its side, short leg down)
2, Coming Over the socket and turning under itself to be plugged in.
( visual a U turned on its side! )

I forget the exact layout inside the A7000 but if you look at the
relative positions of the sockets and cable it should be obvious.

I seem to remember that the cable to the Drive goes in straight and if
there is a U fold needed that goes on the main board.

Good Luck.

[Tony Moore]

On 14 Jun 2013, Bryn Evans <d...@a.invalid> wrote:
> In a mad moment - Tudor Hughes mumbled :
>
> [snip]
>
> > > If it is all plugged in correctly the drive light should flash
> > > briefly on power up. If it does this its not likely to be the
> > > floppy controller.
>
> [snip]
>
> You say that one way the Drive light comes on and stays on.
>
> This is a definite indication that one end of the cable is fitted
> Upside Down!

Or, I believe, that the connector has been misaligned, so that one pair
of pins is not entering the connector.

Tony

[Tudor Hughes]

On Friday, 14 June 2013 00:26:46 UTC+1, lee shepherd wrote:
> Hi Tudor, I'd be very surprised if it was a motherboard failure... but its not impossible. A couple of things to check... Is the drive definitely plugged in correctly? The red strip on the data cable goes nearest to the power connector on the back of the floppy. If it is all plugged in correctly the drive light should flash briefly on power up. If it does this its not likely to be the floppy controller. Its sounds like its a corrupt CMOS setting thats causing this... I'd try a delete power on next (hold down the DEL key whilst powering on the computer) If that doesn't work my next point of call would be the data cable. Let me know how you get on. Lee

It was the motherboard to my surprise and the even greater surprise of CJE, who has supplied me with a replacement. The floppy drive was OK and the new one has been sent back and I have been reimbursed. All is well, particularly that the new motherboard is for an A7000+ and processes BASIC64 about 4½ times faster than was the case and is somewhat faster for the ordinary BASIC.

Grateful thanks to all who have contributed to solving this problem.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

[Folderol]

On Sun, 23 Jun 2013 20:37:19 -0700 (PDT)
Tudor Hughes <tudo...@aol.com> wrote:

> It was the motherboard to my surprise and the even greater surprise of CJE, who has supplied me with a replacement. The floppy drive was OK and the new one has been sent back and I have been reimbursed. All is well, particularly that the new motherboard is for an A7000+ and processes BASIC64 about 4½ times faster than was the case and is somewhat faster for the ordinary BASIC.
>
> Grateful thanks to all who have contributed to solving this problem.
>
> Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

Glad to hear it's sorted, and especially pleased to know there are still
companies out there that look after their customers instead of just chasing the
money.

--
W J G

[Bryn Evans]

In a mad moment - Tudor Hughes mumbled :

[big snip]

> It was the motherboard to my surprise and the even greater
> surprise of CJE, who has supplied me with a replacement.

I remember that when they first came out there was a higher than
statistically expected Main Board failures in North Yorkshire schools.

That was in the mid 1990s, but the indications were that they were all
of a similar batch, and they all failed within a couple of months of
first use.