OT: Cold PC running VRPC
Dave Symes
effect our ability to run something RO. VRPC and Select RO 4.39
The old XP Win PC (1.2 GHz AthlonXP) machine, upon which we run a copy of
VRPC has become a little cranky at booting up the first time, and I'm
wondering if any of the hardware experts here might have a clue?
Details:
Oh irony of ironies, unlike any other errant computer I've ever had,
whereby when a machine gets hot it throws a wobbly, this one is now cranky
when it's cold.
That is cold not only in the sense of a Cold boot, but also when the room
is cold. (When room warm or it warm it behaves much better).
Main power on, press the lozenge, whirr whirr, it'll get to the Bios text
screen, finish with that, then after a black screen will auto reboot,
thereafter is okay.
Or...
Main power on, press the lozenge, whirr whirr, it'll get to the Bios text
screen, finish with that, then after a black screen will do nothing
requiring a lozenge stop.
Reboot and the machine is okay.
Doesn't matter, morning noon or night, if the machine and room are cold,
something like 3 out of 5 cold boots will fail first time.
I've done a long RAM test (1 Gig) and no problems were shown.
The Hard drive is around 1 year old, and once the machine is up and
running, no problems.
WinXP is SP-3 and has (AFAICR) all updates to date applied.
FireWall is On.
AVG is completely up to date.
It accesses the net through a Router.
Scans with AVG are clear.
Scans with Malware app are clear.
Any thoughts please?
Thanks
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
Philip Draper
Dave Symes <da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> Not strictly a RO Q&A but a little forbearance please as it does directly
> effect our ability to run something RO. VRPC and Select RO 4.39
> The old XP Win PC (1.2 GHz AthlonXP) machine, upon which we run a copy of
> VRPC has become a little cranky at booting up the first time, and I'm
> wondering if any of the hardware experts here might have a clue?
[snip]
Reassurance, rather than help, perhaps, but I had a related problem
with one of RComp's 'Space Cube' machines a couple of years ago. On
first being booted its second hard drive and DVD drive were not
recognized, but were always fine if the machine was rebooted after
about 15 min. Problem was worse in the winter, which suggested a
temperature effect. Checking connectors inside the machine did not
help.
Problem has gone away now, perhaps because there is a second machine
beside the old one now and that keeps it a bit warm.
Nothing to do with VRPC - I don't have that.
Philip.
--
Philip Draper
Chris Joseph
>
>Oh irony of ironies, unlike any other errant computer I've ever had,
>whereby when a machine gets hot it throws a wobbly, this one is now cranky
>when it's cold.
Probably a hairline crack in a connection somewhere, either on the
mobo or in solder. When the machine's cold, everything shrinks. Once
it's warm, there's just enough expansion to push things reliably
together. It'll die eventually, but then so does everything :)
Chris.
Martin Bazley
On the other hand, this Aria Iyonix, having behaved impeccably
throughout the summer when the central heating was off, has suddenly
gone into 'start up one time in three' mode now we're running the
central heating! It was very noticeable - the first time in months that
it displayed snow was the first time in months that the room was hot!
What's your answer to that, Chris? :-)
(Yes, I know rooms are normally hot in summer and cold in winter... but
what can I say? We have insulation.)
--
__<^>__ "Did you know that polar bears stay white all year round? ...The
/ _ _ \ white colour makes them less visible to the seals and penguins they
( ( |_| ) ) hunt." - Nelson Thornes AQA-endorsed GCSE science textbook
\_> <_/ ======================= Martin Bazley ==========================
Chris Hughes
> Not strictly a RO Q&A but a little forbearance please as it does directly
> effect our ability to run something RO. VRPC and Select RO 4.39
> The old XP Win PC (1.2 GHz AthlonXP) machine, upon which we run a copy of
> VRPC has become a little cranky at booting up the first time, and I'm
> wondering if any of the hardware experts here might have a clue?
> Details:
> Oh irony of ironies, unlike any other errant computer I've ever had,
> whereby when a machine gets hot it throws a wobbly, this one is now cranky
> when it's cold.
> That is cold not only in the sense of a Cold boot, but also when the room
> is cold. (When room warm or it warm it behaves much better).
[snip]
Your computer has a 'cold' ! I kid you not, I have seen it a few times
over the years.
A little thing like its below the minimum operating temp for some
components, and/or condensation inside the case can cause these sorts
of problems. Usually in the PSU, harddrive or certain other critical
components.
Computers like humans like their warmth. :-)
--
Chris Hughes
Dave Symes
> Chris.
An interesting possibility, but the machine always starts on the second
boot, which I start 20 seconds after I've manually switched off the errant
first boot.
I would have thought in that short a time, only the windings in the power
supply would have become any warmer.
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
Chris Joseph
> Chris Joseph <chr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Dave Symes <da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >Oh irony of ironies, unlike any other errant computer I've ever had,
>> >whereby when a machine gets hot it throws a wobbly, this one is now cranky
>> >when it's cold.
>> [snip]
>
>> Probably a hairline crack in a connection somewhere, either on the
>> mobo or in solder. When the machine's cold, everything shrinks. Once
>> it's warm, there's just enough expansion to push things reliably
>> together. It'll die eventually, but then so does everything :)
>
>boot, which I start 20 seconds after I've manually switched off the errant
>first boot.
>I would have thought in that short a time, only the windings in the power
>supply would have become any warmer.
Chips (and probably some other components) will get up to their normal
operating temp, too. While the Iyonix doesn't have anything that's
going to get as hot as a modern x86 processor, the bridges at least
will be warming their connections and the board directly underneath
them by a couple of degrees. Not much, but potentially enough, and
it'll happen within the first couple of seconds.
Chris.
Dave Symes
> Chris.
I guess... If this is the case there's not much that can be done about it
without some sophisticated test equipment?
Dave
--
Dave Triffid
Dave Higton
Dave Symes <da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
The fault you're describing is a nightmare to diagnose, partly
because there are so many connections that could fail.
It's also worth mentioning that I worked on a piece of equipment
that was originally OK, but later developed faults that were
affected by both temperature and data content. Transmission line
effects (principally undershoot) were involved. The silicon had
aged, and its characteristics had changed /slightly/, but just
enough to push the system over the border from working to not
working. Termination helped, but so many lines were involved
that it was a nightmare to "repair" an equipment, i.e. to modify
it so that it worked reliably.
Dave
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> Main power on, press the lozenge, whirr whirr, it'll get to the Bios text
> screen, finish with that, then after a black screen will auto reboot,
> thereafter is okay.
> Or...
> Main power on, press the lozenge, whirr whirr, it'll get to the Bios text
> screen, finish with that, then after a black screen will do nothing
> requiring a lozenge stop.
>
> Reboot and the machine is okay.
If I understand you correctly, the "lozenge stop" before the reboot didn't
include turning off the mains power to the machine, so some parts of the
motherboard, NIC etc will have stayed powered-up.
If the original problem is that some part of the machine didn't initialise
quickly enough on the first boot, the fact that it's now had power for much
longer might mean it does initialise in time.
Or is that rubbish?
--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsre...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "nnn" by "284".
Dave Symes
Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp....@wingsandbeaks.org.uk>
wrote:
> Dave Symes <da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> > Main power on, press the lozenge, whirr whirr, it'll get to the Bios
> > text screen, finish with that, then after a black screen will auto
> > reboot, thereafter is okay. Or... Main power on, press the lozenge,
> > whirr whirr, it'll get to the Bios text screen, finish with that, then
> > after a black screen will do nothing requiring a lozenge stop.
> >
> > Reboot and the machine is okay.
> If I understand you correctly, the "lozenge stop" before the reboot
> didn't include turning off the mains power to the machine, so some parts
> of the motherboard, NIC etc will have stayed powered-up.
> If the original problem is that some part of the machine didn't
> initialise quickly enough on the first boot, the fact that it's now had
> power for much longer might mean it does initialise in time.
> Or is that rubbish?
Yes lozenge stop, but did not turn off mains.
Interesting thought Jeremy, I'll try switching on at mains, leaving for a
while then booting.
Many years ago when my A3000 was getting old, it often wouldn't boot first
time, so I used to hold the Ctrl & Shift keys for 10 seconds, thereafter
it always booted okay.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Dave
--
Dave Triffid