RISC OS Anonymous
Keith Wilson
Anonymous Group!
Before I'm taken seriously, I'd better expand.
Twice in my life now I have decided that the writing was on the wall
(Hebrew Bible; book of Daniel, if you're interested in the provenance of
the saying) for RISC OS and I have bought a Mac as an alternative system
but both times I have been drawn back to RISC OS. I bought a Mac Cube a
few months ago but I have now sold it (for a good price, I have to say, in
that I lost out very little in financial terms), having realised that
nothing comes near RISC OS in terms of ease of use, despite the 'bells and
whistles' offered on the Mac. I have now reinstated my Risc PC to its
prominent place in the homestead.
I cling to the wreckage, despite: the fact that Reflex have gone belly-up
(albeit that the Acorn spares aspect of the business was profitable);
Oregano 2 has not appeared; the RiscStation portable has not appeared;
Omega is still just over the horizon; I will have to pay a considerable
amount of money for modest upgrades to the OS; there is considerable
dissonance between the explanations given by RISC OS Ltd and Simtech as to
why RISC OS upgrades need to be issued on CD ROM; no USB; and so on and so
on.
What's my point? Well, I'm lucky in that I have saved enough for the
Omega. I'd love to think that it's worth my while to buy it when it
(eventually) becomes available. Given the negativity of much of the
comment on the (formerly known as Acorn) newsgroups, and given the fact
that RISC OS must be used by only a few thousand people, is it worth my
while to maintain my addiction to RISC OS? Just interested to see how
people might respond.
--
Keith Wilson, Edinburgh
RISCOS: alive, kicking and alternative. A Micro$oft-free zone.
keith...@freeuk.com
John Cartmell
<keith...@freeuk.com> wrote:
> is it worth my while to maintain my addiction to RISC OS? Just interested
> to see how people might respond.
Yes
> RISCOS: alive, kicking and
a better
> alternative. A Micro$oft-free zone.
We need to be positive - by expecting success
we need to sell - and make new customers like us
we need to stop bickering
--
John Cartmell
MAUG - New Venue in Sale - now at Metrovick Rugby Club, FinnyBank Road, Sale
Meeting 19th September === http://www.acorn.manchester.ac.uk
RISC OS 4+ presentation & MyRISCOS update
We'll try and make next month's meeting just as good === 17th October
Dave Wisnia
> What's my point? Well, I'm lucky in that I have saved enough for the
>Omega. I'd love to think that it's worth my while to buy it when it
>(eventually) becomes available. Given the negativity of much of the
>comment on the (formerly known as Acorn) newsgroups, and given the fact
>that RISC OS must be used by only a few thousand people, is it worth my
>while to maintain my addiction to RISC OS? Just interested to see how
>people might respond.
>
I use RISCOS everyday for a variety of purposes.
I use PC's regularly.
I don't have a problem with either, though lack of current internet
technologies and Macromedia Director means that I am one of a dwindling
number of users.
Withour RISCOS I.T. would be very much less enjoyable.
--
Dave Wisnia
Michael Gilbert
<URL:mailto:jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <4ac4e943fe...@freeuk.com>, Keith Wilson
> <keith...@freeuk.com> wrote:
> > is it worth my while to maintain my addiction to RISC OS? Just interested
> > to see how people might respond.
>
> Yes
>
> > RISCOS: alive, kicking and
> a better
> > alternative. A Micro$oft-free zone.
>
> We need to be positive - by expecting success
> we need to sell - and make new customers like us
> we need to stop bickering
We need to have some new software.
Cheers
Mike
--
Michael Gilbert: in his own write
The Archiology website: http://www.eclipse.co.uk/gilberts/archiology
Relics from Acorn's past/Acorns passed...
Jess Hampshire
Keith Wilson <keith...@freeuk.com> wrote:
> What's my point? Well, I'm lucky in that I have saved enough for the
> Omega. I'd love to think that it's worth my while to buy it when it
> (eventually) becomes available. Given the negativity of much of the
> comment on the (formerly known as Acorn) newsgroups, and given the fact
> that RISC OS must be used by only a few thousand people, is it worth my
> while to maintain my addiction to RISC OS? Just interested to see how
> people might respond.
YES.
Given the tiny user base, the amount of software that is coming out is
anazing.
Note that most of the negativity comes from power users who do things
that need more power (eg XScale & suitable OS) and either want RO to
move in that direction (sensible of course) or have jumped over the
fence.
Every time that all the negativity starts to get to me a whole load of
new freeware appears on announce and I'm reminded that there are far far
more talented people working for the future of RO than moaning about it.
Also there are lots of old Archimedes coming on to the second hand
market and there seem to be lots of new acorn users who probly wanted
one when they were new but could afford one. When they (re?) discover
how good the system is and that it is still alive, some of them could be
in the market for new machines.
--
Jess
icq 91353267 http://www.kentwebnet.com Using RISC OS 4
George Greenfield
snip
>
> What's my point? Well, I'm lucky in that I have saved enough for the
> Omega. I'd love to think that it's worth my while to buy it when it
> (eventually) becomes available. Given the negativity of much of the
> comment on the (formerly known as Acorn) newsgroups, and given the fact
> that RISC OS must be used by only a few thousand people, is it worth my
> while to maintain my addiction to RISC OS? Just interested to see how
> people might respond.
>
Hi Keith
The answer is Yes. You've tried Macs, and no doubt have used PCs also from
time to time, but you have returned to Risc OS because you prefer it. I too
prefer it, though I also use Macs and PCs regularly. I have spent the best
part of £500 on Kinetic and Viewfinder upgrades to my Risc PC over the past
year. Like you, I sometimes question the wisdom of this, but always come
as I need to) and it does what I want with adequate speed on my current
platform.
As for the Omega, I believe this will be put on sale only when it offers a
significant advance over the VF/Kinetic RPC - hence the protracted FPGA chip
'tuning' which, I presume, is what is going on at the moment. Once
available (ipso facto) it will be worth having, and as you have the money,
you should buy it!
George
--
The Greenfields at home
Steve Fryatt
Jess Hampshire <je...@itworkshop.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Every time that all the negativity starts to get to me a whole load of
> new freeware appears on announce and I'm reminded that there are far far
> more talented people working for the future of RO than moaning about it.
Have you ever noticed that many of the people moaning[1] are actually
responsible for some of the more useful software (PD and commercial) that
we have on RISC OS (even now)?
1. I'm working on the assumption that to some extent you're thinking of
the csa.advocacy 'regulars'...
--
Steve Fryatt - Glasgow, Scotland
Jess Hampshire
Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 6 Oct, in message <3ea723c...@itworkshop.demon.co.uk>
> Jess Hampshire <je...@itworkshop.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Every time that all the negativity starts to get to me a whole load of
> > new freeware appears on announce and I'm reminded that there are far far
> > more talented people working for the future of RO than moaning about it.
>
> Have you ever noticed that many of the people moaning[1] are actually
> responsible for some of the more useful software (PD and commercial) that
> we have on RISC OS (even now)?
>
>
> 1. I'm working on the assumption that to some extent you're thinking of
> the csa.advocacy 'regulars'...
I was thinking more of the "give up and go to linux" crowd, rather than
the critics of specific companies.
Keith Wilson
<free0...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> In article <4ac4e943fe...@freeuk.com>, Keith Wilson
> <URL:mailto:keith...@freeuk.com> wrote:
> snip
> >
> > What's my point? Well, I'm lucky in that I have saved enough for the
> > Omega. I'd love to think that it's worth my while to buy it when it
> > (eventually) becomes available. Given the negativity of much of the
> > comment on the (formerly known as Acorn) newsgroups, and given the
> > fact that RISC OS must be used by only a few thousand people, is it
> > worth my while to maintain my addiction to RISC OS? Just interested to
> > see how people might respond.
> >
> Hi Keith
> The answer is Yes. You've tried Macs, and no doubt have used PCs also
> from time to time, but you have returned to Risc OS because you prefer
> it. I too prefer it, though I also use Macs and PCs regularly. I have
> spent the best part of £500 on Kinetic and Viewfinder upgrades to my
> Risc PC over the past year. Like you, I sometimes question the wisdom of
> this, but always come as I need to) and it does what I want with
> adequate speed on my current platform.
Yes, I use PCs at work and find them slow and therefore tedious. The Mac I
am more familiar with as my wife has a G3 Powerbook. I find the Mac tedious
too as I have spent far too much time trying to resolve Extensions
conflicts and re-installing system software to find the Mac an enjoyable
experience, although the OS does have a lot of nice touches.
The main consideration is how 'productive' the OS is and I find that RISC
OS provides everything I need far more conveniently and easily than the
rival OSs. In fact, in this way it is streets ahead of Windows or MacOS.
This includes areas such as wordprocessing, DTP, scanning. As far as
Internet use is concerned I rarely cannot get into a site using Oregano but
would hope that that would be reduced to almost never with Oregano 2.
> As for the Omega, I believe this will be put on sale only when it offers
> a significant advance over the VF/Kinetic RPC - hence the protracted
> FPGA chip 'tuning' which, I presume, is what is going on at the moment.
> Once available (ipso facto) it will be worth having, and as you have the
> money, you should buy it!
I probably will buy the Omega although I haven't quite convinced myself
that it will be a wise move. Neither have I taken out a subscription to the
Select scheme as yet; I suppose that should be my first move really. The
software issue and the conflicts within the RISC OS world between ROL and a
highly regarded company like Simtec, amongst others, don't inspire the
necessary confidence that the platform has a future even as a niche market.
To me, that's the most important point; nobody is really offering direction
to the market which includes all the major players such as Castle, ROL,
Simtec, Microdigital, RiscStation. That lack of expressed unity of purpose
is, in my opinion, throttling the RISC OS market slowly but surely.
Duncan MacCallum
Keith Wilson <keith...@freeuk.com> wrote:
> To me, that's the most important point; nobody is really offering direction
> to the market which includes all the major players such as Castle, ROL,
> Simtec, Microdigital, RiscStation. That lack of expressed unity of purpose
> is, in my opinion, throttling the RISC OS market slowly but surely.
>
Nuff said.
I wonder if that was what John Cartmell was referring to in his report
from MAUG in this months AU
Care to comment John?
Cheers
--
Duncan MacCallum
Ian Etheridge
> Please help, I am a RISC OS addict and would like to set up a RISC OS
> Anonymous Group!
>
> Before I'm taken seriously, I'd better expand.
>
> Is it worth my while to maintain my addiction to RISC OS? Just
> interested to see how people might respond. (snipped)
>
-How Refreshing...I've been trying to cut down on the number of
newsgroups I read as I keep finding myself asking if investing in a
new RiscOs product was such a good plan...Its good to have a thread
thats looking at the good things in the OS. I too have other machines
from the PC stable but when there's something important to do its my
RiscStation or A4 that get the job as I don't need to think about the
computer, just the task in hand. I don't get that from Windows (even
2000Pro). I guess thats what intuitive really means. For me, there's
more to ICT than the processor speed but I accept that others are not in
the same position, being driven by workload or the competition.
As an aside for the software developers...I've spent as much on software
and periferals this year as I did on the RiscStation Scorcher, Over the
past few years I've only bought EasiWriter for the A4 so I could take it
to college. We regularly hear calls for software to boost the industry
or hardware to do the same, surely it has to be a combination of both
tied together with the OS which makes us choose to be alternative in
our ICT. (Vantage will be next as soon my budget allows). -
Ian Etheridge
-----RiscStation Scorcher RiscOs4 DialUp/Messenger Pro2 WebsterXL & Oregano-----
Richard James C. Butler
Jess Hampshire <je...@itworkshop.demon.co.uk> posted:
[snip]
> Every time that all the negativity starts to get to me a whole load of
> new freeware appears on announce and I'm reminded that there are far far
> more talented people working for the future of RO than moaning about it.
Correct Jess, I've five new releases and patches planned for the next month.
Best Wishes,
Rich.
--
Richard James C. Butler -|- richard...@eircom.net -|- 118235784
_ _ *
|_) /^\ | | ( _ /^\ | The RISC OS User Group of Ireland
| \ \_/ (_) (_) \_/ | www.rougoi.riscos.org.uk -|- rou...@eircom.net
Manu T
Ian Etheridge <i...@ietheridge.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1b1d66c...@ietheridge.fsnet.co.uk...[snipped]
>
> -How Refreshing...I've been trying to cut down on the number of
> newsgroups I read as I keep finding myself asking if investing in a
> new RiscOs product was such a good plan...Its good to have a thread
For the purists amongst us... shouldn't that be RISC OS product... >:->
> thats looking at the good things in the OS. I too have other machines
> from the PC stable but when there's something important to do its my
> RiscStation or A4 that get the job as I don't need to think about the
> computer, just the task in hand. I don't get that from Windows (even
> 2000Pro). I guess thats what intuitive really means. For me, there's
What you are refering to has (usually) nothing to do with the OS itself but
more with the applications you (try to) use. I found Windows as intuitive to
use (use as a simple "enduser") as RISC OS. In fact many things that i do on
RISC OS, I do excactly on the PC (drag and drop file copying e.g.) and some
things are actually easier on both MacOS and Windows (file renaming comes to
mind). It's just that many Windows applications are less intuitive and are
usually targetted at a completely different market than similar RISC OS
applications. E.g. Photoshop or Quark XPress are both targetted at the
professional DTP market with less intuitive, power features which make it
look like daunting applications. We do forget that in their case they are
impressive tools WITH professional output generation that even we, the RISC
OS community, look up to. Similar apps on RISC OS are (today) merely usable
for 'endusers' who want to print out more than the occasional letter to a
relative on their inexpensive inkjet printer. And speaking of cost of
ownership many 'higher end' RISC OS applications are run over by low-end PC
products with great output especially since profesional output generation is
(still) one of the weaker points of RISC OS. But because there's always
someone to find who has these 'high-end', less intuitive applications which
you can copy from, you usually end up going for these at completely
"give-away" price'.
> more to ICT than the processor speed but I accept that others are not in
> the same position, being driven by workload or the competition.
Nobody demands that IF you have a PC you also should have 'Office 3000
Advanced Whatever'. You could go for 'lighter' apps who are usually quite
intuitive. Even some 'professional' applications are IMHO very intuitive
(Adobe Illustrator to name one)... and to remain in the same league. Xara X
is no more difficult to use than Artworks, especially if you'd perform the
same actions.
> As an aside for the software developers...I've spent as much on software
> and periferals this year as I did on the RiscStation Scorcher, Over the
> past few years I've only bought EasiWriter for the A4 so I could take it
> to college. We regularly hear calls for software to boost the industry
> or hardware to do the same, surely it has to be a combination of both
> tied together with the OS which makes us choose to be alternative in
> our ICT. (Vantage will be next as soon my budget allows). -
Well I;ve been reluctant to invest any more money on the RISC OS platform.
Because
1) my mouse isn't in a good shape and I still haven't received those
PS2mouse adaptors from STDevelopments which I ordered last July! And believe
me a RISC OS machine without a mouse is a lot more useless than a Windows
machine without a mouse. I'll guess that in the long run I'll have to
contact Castle in the hope that they still have spare Acorn mice...
2) In the above case STD's attidute is NOT encouraging for me to invest
further in other products as well. Although other companies might be more
'willing' to actually sell you stuff and might be more helpfull in the long
run. In my case that one bad apple makes it worse for ALL of you RISC OS
product companies.
3) RISC OS Ltd. still hasn't convinced me to remain to this platform and
invest into RISC OS 4. In fact their mixed and random changing reactions to
future targets for the OS have kept me away. They also keep changing their
'enthousiasts scheme' too much for my liking.
4) I still haven't got the guarantee that my current applications (of which
some are no longer being developped) and hardware setup will indeed work on
newer OS-versions (let alone potential newer hardware) without having to
invest further in 'patches' provided that these 'patches' are not free.
While I already tried Windows XP on my 2 pc's and indeed can confirm that
that OS does work without ANY additional drivers on both the PC's that I use
for Windows apps. I also admit that a hardware 'upgrade' might make it
necesary to 're-instal' my peecee OS at least after that re-install it
usually DOES work. And yes... I also admit that this XP-version was at
totally "give-away" prices that no RISC OS sofware product can compete with.
Anyway, I'm not saying we should all go for XP. But we do have to come to
terms as to what hard-and software product companies want and to what extend
consumers want to meet those demands (Actually, shouldn't that be the other
way around?). If it's clear that the RISC OS market can't care for their
power-users anymore then they should be prepared that those users will go
away spending their good money in someone elses camp.
Michael Gilbert
<URL:mailto:man...@easynet.be> wrote:
[snip]
> 1) my mouse isn't in a good shape and I still haven't received those
> PS2mouse adaptors from STDevelopments which I ordered last July! And believe
> me a RISC OS machine without a mouse is a lot more useless than a Windows
> machine without a mouse. I'll guess that in the long run I'll have to
> contact Castle in the hope that they still have spare Acorn mice...
Castle have new 'Acorn'-type mice in stock, at much the same price as
ever.
Steve Fryatt
Jess Hampshire <je...@itworkshop.demon.co.uk> wrote:
So was I.
George Greenfield
<URL:mailto:keith...@freeuk.com> wrote:
> In article <ant0612500b0D$b...@acld75.dial.pipex.com>, George Greenfield
> <free0...@ukgateway.net> wrote:
> > In article <4ac4e943fe...@freeuk.com>, Keith Wilson
> > <URL:mailto:keith...@freeuk.com> wrote:
>
> > snip
>
> software issue and the conflicts within the RISC OS world between ROL and a
> highly regarded company like Simtec, amongst others, don't inspire the
> necessary confidence that the platform has a future even as a niche market.
> To me, that's the most important point; nobody is really offering direction
> to the market which includes all the major players such as Castle, ROL,
> Simtec, Microdigital, RiscStation. That lack of expressed unity of purpose
> is, in my opinion, throttling the RISC OS market slowly but surely.
>
I agree with this comment. It seems to me the hardware mfrs continue to
pursue staunchly independent courses, exactly as if they were part of a
large, flourishing market. As we know, this is far from being the case. The
market might sustain a variety of hardware mfrs if the OS was highly modular
and easily adaptable, but this is not the case either: we still have the
same basic OS structure that Acorn had, strongly tied to proprietary chip
designs which must either be used or closely emulated. In my more cynical
moments I sometimes wonder if the strategy of Castle, Riscstation,
Microdigital et al is simply to cling on until their competitors collapse,
and inherit what's left. Problem is, by that time what's left won't be worth
having anyway. The job of ROL is surely to coordinate a market-wide strategy
and seek the widest possible agreement in principle. I just hope this is
going on behind the scenes.
George.
It may be that this is -- The Greenfields at home
Jess Hampshire
"Manu T" <man...@easynet.be> wrote:
> What you are refering to has (usually) nothing to do with the OS itself but
> more with the applications you (try to) use. I found Windows as intuitive to
> use (use as a simple "enduser") as RISC OS. In fact many things that i do on
> RISC OS, I do excactly on the PC (drag and drop file copying e.g.)
But windows is far more limited in that respect (Apart from gloabal
clipboard is more global)
> and some things are actually easier on both MacOS and Windows (file renaming
> comes to mind).
You've not got RO4 then?
> It's just that many Windows applications are less intuitive and are
> usually targetted at a completely different market than similar RISC OS
Don't forget the style guide.
> applications. E.g. Photoshop or Quark XPress are both targetted at the
> professional DTP market with less intuitive, power features which make it
> look like daunting applications. We do forget that in their case they are
> impressive tools WITH professional output generation that even we, the RISC
> OS community, look up to. Similar apps on RISC OS are (today) merely usable
> for 'endusers' who want to print out more than the occasional letter to a
Like vantage I suppose?
> relative on their inexpensive inkjet printer. And speaking of cost of
Or high end postscript printer.
> ownership many 'higher end' RISC OS applications are run over by low-end PC
> products with great output especially since profesional output generation is
> (still) one of the weaker points of RISC OS. But because there's always
So postscript and PDFs don't count as profesional?
> someone to find who has these 'high-end', less intuitive applications which
> you can copy from, you usually end up going for these at completely
> "give-away" price'.
Yes RISC OS is very poor for piracy.
> > more to ICT than the processor speed but I accept that others are not in
> > the same position, being driven by workload or the competition.
>
> Nobody demands that IF you have a PC you also should have 'Office 3000
> Advanced Whatever'. You could go for 'lighter' apps who are usually quite
> intuitive. Even some 'professional' applications are IMHO very intuitive
> (Adobe Illustrator to name one)... and to remain in the same league. Xara X
> is no more difficult to use than Artworks, especially if you'd perform the
> same actions.
But if you're not going for MS office why do you need windows?
> > As an aside for the software developers...I've spent as much on software
> > and periferals this year as I did on the RiscStation Scorcher, Over the
> > past few years I've only bought EasiWriter for the A4 so I could take it
> > to college. We regularly hear calls for software to boost the industry
> > or hardware to do the same, surely it has to be a combination of both
> > tied together with the OS which makes us choose to be alternative in
> > our ICT. (Vantage will be next as soon my budget allows). -
>
> Well I;ve been reluctant to invest any more money on the RISC OS platform.
> Because
>
> 1) my mouse isn't in a good shape and I still haven't received those
> PS2mouse adaptors from STDevelopments which I ordered last July! And believe
> me a RISC OS machine without a mouse is a lot more useless than a Windows
> machine without a mouse. I'll guess that in the long run I'll have to
> contact Castle in the hope that they still have spare Acorn mice...
If you have a serial port free, there is a serial mouse driver on his
site, which should do you until the PS2mouse gets sorted.
> 2) In the above case STD's attidute is NOT encouraging for me to invest
> further in other products as well. Although other companies might be more
> 'willing' to actually sell you stuff and might be more helpfull in the long
> run. In my case that one bad apple makes it worse for ALL of you RISC OS
> product companies.
At least you can talk to the developers and features you request can end
up in software.
> 3) RISC OS Ltd. still hasn't convinced me to remain to this platform and
> invest into RISC OS 4. In fact their mixed and random changing reactions to
> future targets for the OS have kept me away. They also keep changing their
> 'enthousiasts scheme' too much for my liking.
I think lack of communication is the only real problem with ROL.
> 4) I still haven't got the guarantee that my current applications (of which
> some are no longer being developped) and hardware setup will indeed work on
> newer OS-versions (let alone potential newer hardware) without having to
> invest further in 'patches' provided that these 'patches' are not free.
Select states that apps that work on 4 _should_ still work on +.
Probably the answer for you is to ask about the apps once select has
been used for a few weeks.
> While I already tried Windows XP on my 2 pc's and indeed can confirm that
> that OS does work without ANY additional drivers on both the PC's that I use
> for Windows apps. I also admit that a hardware 'upgrade' might make it
> necesary to 're-instal' my peecee OS at least after that re-install it
> usually DOES work. And yes... I also admit that this XP-version was at
> totally "give-away" prices that no RISC OS sofware product can compete with.
>
> Anyway, I'm not saying we should all go for XP. But we do have to come to
> terms as to what hard-and software product companies want and to what extend
> consumers want to meet those demands (Actually, shouldn't that be the other
> way around?). If it's clear that the RISC OS market can't care for their
> power-users anymore then they should be prepared that those users will go
> away spending their good money in someone elses camp.
I certainly agree that the situation is different for power users than
other users.
Alan Wrigley
Jess Hampshire <je...@itworkshop.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm reminded that there are far far
> more talented people working for the future of RO than moaning about it.
My lips are sealed...
Alan
Manu T
Jess Hampshire <je...@itworkshop.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4253b5c...@itworkshop.demon.co.uk...
> In message <9pp1dq$2tqn$1...@rivage.news.be.easynet.net>
> "Manu T" <man...@easynet.be> wrote:
>
> > What you are refering to has (usually) nothing to do with the OS itself
but
> > more with the applications you (try to) use. I found Windows as
intuitive to
> > use (use as a simple "enduser") as RISC OS. In fact many things that i
do on
> > RISC OS, I do excactly on the PC (drag and drop file copying e.g.)
>
> But windows is far more limited in that respect (Apart from gloabal
> clipboard is more global)
Care to ellaborate?
> > and some things are actually easier on both MacOS and Windows (file
renaming
> > comes to mind).
>
> You've not got RO4 then?
As should be clear from my previous post no I do not have RISC OS 4.
> > It's just that many Windows applications are less intuitive and are
> > usually targetted at a completely different market than similar RISC OS
>
> Don't forget the style guide.
Style guide is just a set of guidelines which apps might or might not
follow. The same is true for windows apps. Some aplications abandon the
Windows-style guide (if you can call it that), e.g. all windows mp3-players
come to mind, but that doesn't mean they're less intuitive.
As for certain professional apps. The complete adobe apps behave in a
consistent style amongst themselves.
> > applications. E.g. Photoshop or Quark XPress are both targetted at the
> > professional DTP market with less intuitive, power features which make
it
> > look like daunting applications. We do forget that in their case they
are
> > impressive tools WITH professional output generation that even we, the
RISC
> > OS community, look up to. Similar apps on RISC OS are (today) merely
usable
> > for 'endusers' who want to print out more than the occasional letter to
a
>
> Like vantage I suppose?
Vantage have been vapourware for so long that by now every person that uses
their RISC OS in a professional DTP-environment probably has left. Besides
is it finally out now? At the last Acorn Expo in Holland I expected to see a
demonstration of it but contrary to the statemants that had been made
regarding its availability, it still wasn't available then.
> > relative on their inexpensive inkjet printer. And speaking of cost of
>
> Or high end postscript printer.
Acorn and postscript.. oh dear.
I explained many years ago WHAT the problem was regarding postscript output
on this platform. The items explained were not necesary Acorn's "faults"
(those days Acorn still ruled). They were just my professional experience as
why professional Postscript output was more of a 'hit and run' operation
then something that imagesetters could use. I admit that perhaps in Brittan
(especially at that time) a handfull of DTP-offices had their equipment
optimised for Acorn output. But over here in Belgium all major professional
imagesetters use(d) Mac and/or PC equipment.
> > ownership many 'higher end' RISC OS applications are run over by low-end
PC
> > products with great output especially since profesional output
generation is
> > (still) one of the weaker points of RISC OS. But because there's always
>
> So postscript and PDFs don't count as profesional?
Acorn's postscript is severly flawed and often not usable. I have explained
this many years ago as to why this is. AFAIK the problems involved are still
not adressed (because the primary concern nowadays is not the professional
market but more the general consumer market)
> > someone to find who has these 'high-end', less intuitive applications
which
> > you can copy from, you usually end up going for these at completely
> > "give-away" price'.
>
> Yes RISC OS is very poor for piracy.
You may joke about it. Noneteless this IS a major reason why you can't
convince ppl to "buy" RISC OS equipment!!!
> > > more to ICT than the processor speed but I accept that others are not
in
> > > the same position, being driven by workload or the competition.
> >
> > Nobody demands that IF you have a PC you also should have 'Office 3000
> > Advanced Whatever'. You could go for 'lighter' apps who are usually
quite
> > intuitive. Even some 'professional' applications are IMHO very intuitive
> > (Adobe Illustrator to name one)... and to remain in the same league.
Xara X
> > is no more difficult to use than Artworks, especially if you'd perform
the
> > same actions.
>
> But if you're not going for MS office why do you need windows?
I used to work in the professional DTP world. I used the full set of Adobe
applications on both PC's and Apple Mac's. Even website generation has
evolved at far better and for more intuitive scale on the PC then on the
RISC OS platform (our major HTML-app is still HTML-Edit which is poor in
comparision to Macromedia's Dreamweaver)
[snip]
> > Well I;ve been reluctant to invest any more money on the RISC OS
platform.
> > Because
> >
> > 1) my mouse isn't in a good shape and I still haven't received those
> > PS2mouse adaptors from STDevelopments which I ordered last July! And
believe
> > me a RISC OS machine without a mouse is a lot more useless than a
Windows
> > machine without a mouse. I'll guess that in the long run I'll have to
> > contact Castle in the hope that they still have spare Acorn mice...
>
> If you have a serial port free, there is a serial mouse driver on his
> site, which should do you until the PS2mouse gets sorted.
Unfortunatly do not have a stack of serial mice somewhere in a cupboard.
> > 2) In the above case STD's attidute is NOT encouraging for me to invest
> > further in other products as well. Although other companies might be
more
> > 'willing' to actually sell you stuff and might be more helpfull in the
long
> > run. In my case that one bad apple makes it worse for ALL of you RISC OS
> > product companies.
>
> At least you can talk to the developers and features you request can end
> up in software.
>
Oh yeah... I received a few emails from STD concerning this... but i'd
rather have my order then these lame promisses.
> > 3) RISC OS Ltd. still hasn't convinced me to remain to this platform and
> > invest into RISC OS 4. In fact their mixed and random changing reactions
to
> > future targets for the OS have kept me away. They also keep changing
their
> > 'enthousiasts scheme' too much for my liking.
>
> I think lack of communication is the only real problem with ROL.
Communication is the prime tool for sales officers! So if they can't
'communicate' how do they expect to 'sell' anything?
> > 4) I still haven't got the guarantee that my current applications (of
which
> > some are no longer being developped) and hardware setup will indeed work
on
> > newer OS-versions (let alone potential newer hardware) without having to
> > invest further in 'patches' provided that these 'patches' are not free.
>
> Select states that apps that work on 4 _should_ still work on +.
> Probably the answer for you is to ask about the apps once select has
> been used for a few weeks.
Select, select... Yeah rite... in 2000 it was Foundation and in 2001 it is
Select. What's it gonna be in 2002? Besides I still use RISC OS 3.7. So tell
me will my I-Cubed Acorn branded network card work? What about the Storm32
card? Or that internal Acorn/Online Media modem? What about Artworks (I
believe that works)? Or Impression Publisher (not publisher +)? What u/g do
I need for ArcFax or Photodesk? is it gonna cost me 30quid for each of these
upgrades... so that a RISC OS upgrade will set me back about 120UKP for the
OS and 300UKP for my upgrades? Pretty expensive if you ask me.
[snip]
> I certainly agree that the situation is different for power users than
> other users.
It cetainly is. Do you remember that ART-poster about the Risc PC? The one
with the see-through RPC case and all the important items explained? The one
called "Powerhouse". It was meant to sell RPC to powerusers. And now all
these powerusers who usually invested in pretty hefty machines have no
choice but to leave the platform. That's sad! really sad because you KNOW
they will NOT invest in our platform ever again. Good money spend elseware ,
money that we NEED to survive.
But why the hell should I care? They wont even sell me a few stupid PS2-port
mouse adaptors...
Jess Hampshire
"Manu T" <man...@easynet.be> wrote:
> > But windows is far more limited in that respect (Apart from gloabal
> > clipboard is more global)
>
> Care to ellaborate?
No drag and drop saving, no drag and drop transfer between progs. Active
window always on top. Windows just generally feels clunkier.
> > > and some things are actually easier on both MacOS and Windows (file >
> > > renaming comes to mind).
> > You've not got RO4 then?
> As should be clear from my previous post no I do not have RISC OS 4.
this solves some of the shortcomings - select should solve more
> > > It's just that many Windows applications are less intuitive and are
> > > usually targetted at a completely different market than similar RISC OS
> >
> > Don't forget the style guide.
>
> Style guide is just a set of guidelines which apps might or might not
> follow. The same is true for windows apps. Some aplications abandon the
> Windows-style guide (if you can call it that), e.g. all windows mp3-players
> come to mind, but that doesn't mean they're less intuitive.
Windows isn't very intuitive or consistant anyway so following the style
doesn't help much. RO isn't perfect, but it's much much better.
> As for certain professional apps. The complete adobe apps behave in a
> consistent style amongst themselves.
Might as well get a Mac then for them :-)
> > Like vantage I suppose?
> Vantage have been vapourware for so long that by now every person that uses
> their RISC OS in a professional DTP-environment probably has left. Besides
> is it finally out now? At the last Acorn Expo in Holland I expected to see a
> demonstration of it but contrary to the statemants that had been made
> regarding its availability, it still wasn't available then.
It's been out for a while.
> I explained many years ago WHAT the problem was regarding postscript output
> on this platform. The items explained were not necesary Acorn's "faults"
> (those days Acorn still ruled). They were just my professional experience as
> why professional Postscript output was more of a 'hit and run' operation
> then something that imagesetters could use. I admit that perhaps in Brittan
> (especially at that time) a handfull of DTP-offices had their equipment
> optimised for Acorn output. But over here in Belgium all major professional
> imagesetters use(d) Mac and/or PC equipment.
I've not had any problems with postscpript (not that I use imagesetters)
> > Yes RISC OS is very poor for piracy.
> You may joke about it. Noneteless this IS a major reason why you can't
> convince ppl to "buy" RISC OS equipment!!!
there is an element of truth in that - given stories I've heard about
the autocad launch in russia - apparrently they sold a few copies and
several thousand instruction books.
> > Select states that apps that work on 4 _should_ still work on +.
> > Probably the answer for you is to ask about the apps once select has
> > been used for a few weeks.
> Select, select... Yeah rite... in 2000 it was Foundation and in 2001 it is
> Select. What's it gonna be in 2002? Besides I still use RISC OS 3.7. So tell
> me will my I-Cubed Acorn branded network card work? What about the Storm32
I use both of those. Storm needed an firmware upgrade for lasy task
switching 15 ukp.
> card? Or that internal Acorn/Online Media modem? What about Artworks (I
> believe that works)? Or Impression Publisher (not publisher +)? What u/g do
> I need for ArcFax or Photodesk? is it gonna cost me 30quid for each of these
> upgrades... so that a RISC OS upgrade will set me back about 120UKP for the
> OS and 300UKP for my upgrades? Pretty expensive if you ask me.
> [snip]
>
> > I certainly agree that the situation is different for power users than
> > other users.
>
> It cetainly is. Do you remember that ART-poster about the Risc PC? The one
> with the see-through RPC case and all the important items explained? The one
> called "Powerhouse". It was meant to sell RPC to powerusers. And now all
> these powerusers who usually invested in pretty hefty machines have no
> choice but to leave the platform. That's sad! really sad because you KNOW
> they will NOT invest in our platform ever again. Good money spend elseware ,
> money that we NEED to survive.
>
> But why the hell should I care? They wont even sell me a few stupid PS2-port
> mouse adaptors...
If you've not bought the new mice yet for the adaptors, many are
available with serial adaptors in the box, which would allow the
temporary solution i suggested.
John Cartmell
Direction is essential. The MAUG meeting could have been disastrous or a
meeting of minds. It was neither but it did show the way to go for success.
There is room for difference of opinion - but not bickering and it is
absolutely basic that everyone has to make the most of the chances that are
offered. I've come across a couple of cases recently - one small and one
very large - where chances have been thrown away through stupid unconcern
for customers. It's not likely that all RISC OS suppliers, developers etc
can suddenly learn how to operate good PR and ROL have disqualified
themselves for that task and turned down the other leadership role (see AU
article). We need someone to lead and it's clear it's not going to be ROL.
Perhaps someone, something will somehow emerge over the next few months...
..ideas please to (if nothing else I'll write them up in AU). Keep
reading.
> Cheers
John Cartmell
> some things are actually easier on both MacOS and Windows (file renaming
> comes to mind).
Although RO4+ has just improved on the Windows style ;-)
Michael Gilbert
<URL:mailto:jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <e4b05ec5...@cableinet.co.uk>, Duncan MacCallum
> <dma...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:
> > In message <4ac5573688...@freeuk.com> Keith Wilson
> > <keith...@freeuk.com> wrote:
>
> > > To me, that's the most important point; nobody is really offering
> > > direction to the market which includes all the major players such as
> > > Castle, ROL, Simtec, Microdigital, RiscStation. That lack of expressed
> > > unity of purpose is, in my opinion, throttling the RISC OS market
> > > slowly but surely.
> > >
> > Nuff said. I wonder if that was what John Cartmell was referring to in
> > his report from MAUG in this months AU Care to comment John?
>
> Direction is essential. The MAUG meeting could have been disastrous or a
> meeting of minds. It was neither but it did show the way to go for success.
> There is room for difference of opinion - but not bickering and it is
> absolutely basic that everyone has to make the most of the chances that are
> offered. I've come across a couple of cases recently - one small and one
> very large - where chances have been thrown away through stupid unconcern
> for customers. It's not likely that all RISC OS suppliers, developers etc
> can suddenly learn how to operate good PR and ROL have disqualified
> themselves for that task and turned down the other leadership role (see AU
> article). We need someone to lead and it's clear it's not going to be ROL.
> Perhaps someone, something will somehow emerge over the next few months...
Well, for the director's salary that appears to have been paid by ROL,
I'll do it...
... although I personally feel that I couldn't run a pissup in a
brewery. Does this disqualify me?
>
> ..ideas please to (if nothing else I'll write them up in AU). Keep
> reading.
>
The bottom line is that manufacturers need to shift more units.
Therefore, they need to look for a market sector which has a need for a
product requiring the USP's and strengths offered by RISC OS. This
requirement will be one that that market sector perceives itself to
have. What that market sector will not be looking for is a premium
priced product based on an obscure OS with little power[1] software.
Said market sector will have a need for simple, robust hardware, which
will require a minimum of support and maintenance. It will also be price
conscious in the extreme. Geek obsessions with clock speeds and other
nonsense stats will be irrelevant.
Paul Richardson has identified one potential market, though I have
concerns about the development costs of the Solo product.
Castle/Cumana's Slym system is also potentially a good'un.
There are other sectors out there, for which we have the software and
which have cash to spend, which fulfil all the above slots. Without any
marketing push, however, we might as well all sit round and keep weeing
in the bath in the way we are at the minute.
druck
> What you are refering to has (usually) nothing to do with the OS itself but
> more with the applications you (try to) use. I found Windows as intuitive
> to use (use as a simple "enduser") as RISC OS. In fact many things that i
> do on RISC OS, I do excactly on the PC (drag and drop file copying e.g.)
> and some things are actually easier on both MacOS and Windows (file
> renaming comes to mind).
You obviously dont have RISC OS 4 then. Its alt click renaming is far easier
to use than Windows 1½ double clicks, that ensure you never get it when you
want to rename, but any time you double click on the name part of a file it
seems to occur.
[Big snip]
> 3) RISC OS Ltd. still hasn't convinced me to remain to this platform and
> invest into RISC OS 4. In fact their mixed and random changing reactions to
> future targets for the OS have kept me away. They also keep changing their
> 'enthousiasts scheme' too much for my liking.
Well there is one point to justify getting RISC OS 4 above. If you choose to
take any notice of this, you cant go round comparing your old RISC OS to
later OS's on other platforms.
---druck
--
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
|_)|(_ / ` / \(_ ' ) / \ / \ /| The Prestige RISC OS Show, 20-21 October
| \| _)\_, \_/ _) /_ \_/ \_/ _|_ Blue Mountain, taste the difference
Harriet Bazley
Ian Etheridge wrote:
> -How Refreshing...I've been trying to cut down on the number of
> newsgroups I read as I keep finding myself asking if investing in a
> new RiscOs product was such a good plan...Its good to have a thread
> thats looking at the good things in the OS. I too have other machines
> from the PC stable but when there's something important to do its my
> RiscStation or A4 that get the job as I don't need to think about the
> computer, just the task in hand.
<grin> I've just been asked to desktop-publish a local primary school
Governors' Report on my system - Impression on an A5000 - despite the
fact that the files are utterly incompatible with the school's own
system since they switched to Windows - on the grounds that "it's always
so reliable"....
--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==
Equal bytes for women.
druck
> In article <4ac5ca9...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell
>> Perhaps someone, something will somehow emerge over the next few months...
>
> Well, for the director's salary that appears to have been paid by ROL,
> I'll do it...
If you mean the figure that was mentioned in the ROL annual report, remember
that it was divided between 3.5 people during that period, and that it was
the total cost to the company, not the salary, as it includes employers tax
and NI contributions.
But if you think you could make a better job of running a company for the
adverage salary of an office junior, feel free to resign from your current
employment and apply for the position.
> ... although I personally feel that I couldn't run a pissup in a
> brewery. Does this disqualify me?
Not necessarily. Most breweries have a policy against drinking by the
emplyees whilst on the premises.
druck
> Select. What's it gonna be in 2002? Besides I still use RISC OS 3.7. So tell
> me will my I-Cubed Acorn branded network card work? What about the Storm32
> card? Or that internal Acorn/Online Media modem? What about Artworks (I
> believe that works)? Or Impression Publisher (not publisher +)? What u/g do
> I need for ArcFax or Photodesk? is it gonna cost me 30quid for each of these
> upgrades... so that a RISC OS upgrade will set me back about 120UKP for the
> OS and 300UKP for my upgrades? Pretty expensive if you ask me.
Thank you for indulging in pointless FUD (fear uncertainaty and doubt, or
negative speculation if you prefer).
All the above mentioned interfaces and programs work on RISC OS 4 AFAIK, and
it is extremely unlikely that the enhancements in Select will have any
adverse effects.
However your tone, and the fact that you have not even bought RISC OS 4
yet, suggests that this is not your real concern, and you are just trying
to spread the aforementioned FUD.
Daniel Ellis
> Omega. I'd love to think that it's worth my while to buy it when it
> (eventually) becomes available. Given the negativity of much of the
> comment on the (formerly known as Acorn) newsgroups, and given the fact
> while to maintain my addiction to RISC OS? Just interested to see how
> people might respond.
Well as a lifelong RISC OS developer, I guess I'm biased. But I find my
RiscPC perfectly adequate for mine and my wife's needs. I think on one
occasion I have found it useful to use Acrobat at work, but then I wouldn't
fork out for that on a home PC anyway.
In fact to be honest a StrongARM is pure luxury. The only thing it's really
essential for is MP3 decode (and maybe flash).
--
Dan Ellis
mailto:d...@pod51.demon.co.uk
Mark Rowan
Jess Hampshire <je...@itworkshop.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <9ppp7t$ari$1...@rivage.news.be.easynet.net>
> "Manu T" <man...@easynet.be> wrote:
[Snip]
> > Select, select... Yeah rite... in 2000 it was Foundation and in 2001
> > it is Select. What's it gonna be in 2002?
Work on RISC OS 5, I hope! :-)
> > Besides I still use RISC OS 3.7. So tell me will my I-Cubed Acorn
> > branded network card work? What about the Storm32
> I use both of those. Storm needed an firmware upgrade for lasy task
> switching 15 ukp.
> > card? Or that internal Acorn/Online Media modem?
Don't know about that.
> > What about Artworks (I believe that works)?
As well as it ever did, especially with Martin Wuerthner's patches.
> > Or Impression Publisher (not publisher +)?
Impression Publisher v.4.13 has always been working fine here...
> > What u/g do I need for ArcFax
None, AFAIK (I never got it to work with my modem anyway). But if there
was, I could pretty much guarantee David Pilling's already covered that,
for free.
> > or Photodesk?
Not sure on that one either, but I seriously doubt they'd charge you for
a simple compatibility fix. (Ok, so there's 4D's policy, but that's
another matter! Mind you, 6ukp hardly breaks the bank...)
> > is it gonna cost me 30quid for each of these upgrades...
Nothing like it.
> > so that a RISC OS upgrade will set me back about 120UKP for the OS
> > and 300UKP for my upgrades? Pretty expensive if you ask me.
Hardly. I'd say a 180ukp total, absoulute tops.
And it's certainly a more reliable and cheap upgrade than the horror
stories I've heard from friends upgrading to Win2K, and the amounts
they've had to spend on upgrading hardware and installing dodgy software
patches!
> > That's sad! really sad because you KNOW they will NOT invest in our
> > platform ever again. Good money spend elseware , money that we NEED to
> > survive.
In a market where "every penny counts" your 120ukp could prove to be
invaluable!
Cheers,
Mark
--
... I hate making predictions; especially about the future!
Cheers, | tam...@ukgateway.net - http://www.tamias.ukgateway.net
Mark Rowan.| ZFC-A (S) - ICQ 30759398 - Tamias on IRC (#csn.ml.kids)
------------' DialUp + Pluto, Acorn RiscPC 233(T) + 5x86, 80+1MB, RO4.02
ADFS 2GB, Cumana SCSI 2GB, APDL ideA 8GB, DeskFM, Atomwide Fast Serial
Michael Gilbert
<URL:mailto:ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 6 Oct 2001 "Manu T" <man...@easynet.be> wrote:
> > What you are refering to has (usually) nothing to do with the OS itself but
> > more with the applications you (try to) use. I found Windows as intuitive
> > to use (use as a simple "enduser") as RISC OS. In fact many things that i
> > do on RISC OS, I do excactly on the PC (drag and drop file copying e.g.)
> > and some things are actually easier on both MacOS and Windows (file
> > renaming comes to mind).
>
> You obviously dont have RISC OS 4 then. Its alt click renaming is far easier
> to use than Windows 1½ double clicks, that ensure you never get it when you
> want to rename, but any time you double click on the name part of a file it
> seems to occur.
What double clicks? Right-click, choose 'Rename' from menu. MacOS, now,
that's a pig when you're trying to rename a file.
Though I must say that I keep forgetting about Alt-click, and just use
the menu like I always have.
Michael Gilbert
<URL:mailto:ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 7 Oct 2001 Michael Gilbert <mgil...@eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <4ac5ca9...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell
> >> We need someone to lead and it's clear it's not going to be ROL.
> >> Perhaps someone, something will somehow emerge over the next few months...
> >
> > Well, for the director's salary that appears to have been paid by ROL,
> > I'll do it...
>
> If you mean the figure that was mentioned in the ROL annual report, remember
> that it was divided between 3.5 people during that period, and that it was
> the total cost to the company, not the salary, as it includes employers tax
> and NI contributions.
>
> But if you think you could make a better job of running a company for the
> adverage salary of an office junior, feel free to resign from your current
> employment and apply for the position.
You mean like the current sole director of ROL has resigned his previous
employment?
Surely the incentive is to make the company profitable, rather than to
immediately earn a decent salary? The first thought of anyone starting
a new business must be for the business, not personal gain. It's all
fine and dandy for geeks on the tax-evasive employment schemes which
IR35 has (thankfully) closed down, but real business is bloody hard
work. You need to sacrifice a hell of a lot. You won't have an 'office
junior'. You will have a lot of commitment, and a lot of sleepless
nights. You and your family will probably suffer. But you will keep
going because you have a belief in yourself and the business you are
involved in and a sure and certain knowledge that you will succeed.
I can understand ROL paying skilled staff under contract to develop the
software. I cannot understand why any director needed to be paid one
single solitary red cent. ROL's most recent report reads like a company
going to hell in a handcart.
>
> > ... although I personally feel that I couldn't run a pissup in a
> > brewery. Does this disqualify me?
>
> Not necessarily. Most breweries have a policy against drinking by the
> emplyees whilst on the premises.
>
Thanks for taking advantage of my ellipsis, druck. (:-)
mark stephens
Michael Gilbert <mgil...@eclipse.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> Well, for the director's salary that appears to have been paid by ROL,
> I'll do it...
>
> ... although I personally feel that I couldn't run a pissup in a
> brewery. Does this disqualify me?
It's never been a serious disability in business and you could always be the
next Sports Minister ;-)
MArk
--
Sendu Bala
> In article <5175d9c5...@druck.freeuk.net>, druck
> <URL:mailto:ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
>
>> You obviously dont have RISC OS 4 then. Its alt click renaming is far easier
> > to use than Windows 1½ double clicks, that ensure you never get it when you
> > want to rename, but any time you double click on the name part of a file it
> > seems to occur.
>
> What double clicks?
If you double-click on the filename, you enter rename mode. It's very very
annoying.
> Right-click, choose 'Rename' from menu.
That's what you tend to do when you actually want to rename something, yes.
--
Sendu Bala se...@sendu.co.uk | http://www.sendu.co.uk/
Tori Amos, The West Wing, DNA and my SA RPC
"If life gets any better than this, I'll be genuinely surprised"
Alan Wrigley
Sendu Bala <se...@sendu.co.uk> wrote:
> On 7 Oct, Michael Gilbert wrote:
>
> > In article <5175d9c5...@druck.freeuk.net>, druck
> > <URL:mailto:ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You obviously dont have RISC OS 4 then. Its alt click renaming is far easier
> > > to use than Windows 1½ double clicks, that ensure you never get it when you
> > > want to rename, but any time you double click on the name part of a file it
> > > seems to occur.
> >
> > What double clicks?
>
> If you double-click on the filename, you enter rename mode.
Only if you don't double-click fast enough. It's one of the things you
get used to.
> It's very very annoying.
Not half as annoying as the lack of any delay before a drag takes
effect. It's very, very easy to select a number of files, e.g. for
deleting, and move the mouse a tiny fraction just as you click the last
one. Hey presto - instead of deleting the files you now have two copies
of all of them.
Alan
Matthew Somerville
pa...@argonet.spam.uk (Paul Vigay) wrote:
> The way windows jump to the front when you click in them is one of the most
> annoying features, which makes it really cumbersome to work with more than
> one window open on the screen at once.
I find the Tile windows horizontally/vertically commands do mean I can at
least not scream at my computer every two seconds. :-)
> The other thing I find annoying is that when scrolling a window and the
> mouse accidentally wobbles left/right a bit, the scrollbar jumps to its
> original location and you have to start again.
Now, I'm all for Windows-bashing, but this is something really useful that
not many people actually get. You don't have to start again, as you say. Yes,
when you move the mouse off the scrollbar the window jumps back to the
original location, but keep the button down and move the mouse back onto the
scrollbar and it jumps to your location again. This lets you compare two
separate parts of a document with great ease, and I find it very useful. F2
with Zap is just as good though and I don't have to use the mouse. :)
ATB,
Matthew
--
"You, slave, will be torn apart by horses, to the plaudits of the troops
and the amusement of the children."
- Gloriosus, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum