Risc PC 2 Cancelled
Lee McGinty
Noone seems to have mentioned this...
Another restructuring announced this morning (information from
Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
Lee
--
Lee McGinty (l...@ehiltd.dircon.co.uk) Equitable House Investments Ltd
My company only takes credit for the profitable things I do
Tips for gooder English: 8. Contractions aren't necessary.
Dave Vint
Lee McGinty wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Noone seems to have mentioned this...
>
> Another restructuring announced this morning (information from
> Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
> concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
See
Oh bugger.
Dave.
--
Dave Vint.
TENET Systems Ltd.
James Holtom
> Another restructuring announced this morning (information from
> Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
> concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
o
I couldn't quite believe this so I moseyed over to Bloomberg's UK site.
(www.bloomberg.co.uk)
There it is in black-and-white...
I still find it hard to believe -- given that the majority of the R&D
for Phoebe must have been spent by now, I'd have thought it would make
more sense to push them into production, and at least get some earnings,
rather than ditch the project at this late stage...
Oh well -- time will tell -- I think the people I feel sorriest for
(aside from the folks at Acorn) is Steve Turnbull, and the guys that have
just bought-out Acorn User...
[Unless the unspecified activities that he couldn't discuss, was the
/continuation/ of the Phoebe project...]
But on the grounds of probability things do not look so good, if this
report is substantiated... (And after-all Bloomberg are-not some dodgy
back-room zero-credibility web-site...)
Bugger.
James
Liam Gretton
<URL:mailto:hol...@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
> But on the grounds of probability things do not look so good, if this
> report is substantiated... (And after-all Bloomberg are-not some dodgy
> back-room zero-credibility web-site...)
It's true - even Dave Walker's been made redundant :-(
Oh well, time to look for a new platform, I guess...
--
Liam Gretton l...@star.le.ac.uk
Space Research Centre, li...@binliner.demon.co.uk
Physics and Astronomy Dept, phone +44 (0) 116 223 1039
Leicester University, fax +44 (0) 116 252 2464
Leicester LE1 7RH, UK http://xmm4.xra.le.ac.uk/
Kell Gatherer
<l...@star.le.ac.uk> wrote:
>Oh well, time to look for a new platform, I guess...
Maybe, however I would be very, very surprised if the workstations division
is not an attractive buy to somebody or other.
Up until today, RPC's are still in production, and make a profit.
This week, Phoebe has been up and running for the first time.
The development work has been done and paid for.
The software is ready to make use of it.
Surely *somebody* can make a go of it, even if the idiots on the board
can't?
--
Kell Gatherer
ke...@locationworks.com
www.locationworks.com
Paul Vigay
<URL:mailto:hol...@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
> There it is in black-and-white...
>
>
> I still find it hard to believe -- given that the majority of the R&D
> for Phoebe must have been spent by now, I'd have thought it would make
> more sense to push them into production, and at least get some earnings,
> rather than ditch the project at this late stage...
I can't believe this, as all the hard work has already been done and people
have been placing deposits - and Acorn are still promoting it on their newlook
Workstations page - which looks recently revamped.
> Oh well -- time will tell -- I think the people I feel sorriest for
> (aside from the folks at Acorn) is Steve Turnbull, and the guys that have
> just bought-out Acorn User...
Well, existing users won't suddenly stop buying Acorn user, so I don't if it
will have an immediate impact anyway.
> [Unless the unspecified activities that he couldn't discuss, was the
> /continuation/ of the Phoebe project...]
Perhaps there ought to be a "management buyout" of the Workstation division.
Perhaps Chris Cox could re-recruit Peter Bondar and they could continue as
"Acorn Workstations Ltd" or something.....
--
Paul Vigay Computer Advice,
__\\|//__ Internet Consultancy
http://www.matrix.clara.net (` o-o ') & Web Design
-----------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo---------------------------
Paul Vigay
<URL:mailto:da...@tenet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> Lee McGinty wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Noone seems to have mentioned this...
> >
> > Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
> > concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
>
>
> http://quote.bloomberg.com/analytics/bquote.cgi?story_num=603780470&view=story&version
> =front.quote.uk.cfg
Looks worrying, but there again, why is Acorn still promoting (and taking
deposits) of the Phoebe on it's newly redesigned web pages at
http://www.acorn.com/acorn/ ?
Stuart Bell
> There it is in black-and-white...
>
Yep - and no Acorn World '98, so scrub all the AAUG plans. . . .
>
> I still find it hard to believe -- given that the majority of the R&D
> for Phoebe must have been spent by now, I'd have thought it would make
> more sense to push them into production, and at least get some earnings,
> rather than ditch the project at this late stage...
Unless it wasn't going to make a profit with all the discounts flying
around.
>
> Oh well -- time will tell -- I think the people I feel sorriest for
> (aside from the folks at Acorn) is Steve Turnbull, and the guys that have
> just bought-out Acorn User...
Yep
> [Unless the unspecified activities that he couldn't discuss, was the
> /continuation/ of the Phoebe project...]
I doubt if he'd have bought out AU knowing that RPC2 was going down the
pan.
>
> But on the grounds of probability things do not look so good, if this
> report is substantiated... (And after-all Bloomberg are-not some dodgy
> back-room zero-credibility web-site...)
Indeed. Despite their disclaimers, they'd be up the creek if the info
was false. They even give contact numbers at Acorn.
Basically, all the desktop stuff is being off-loaded to Xemplar, and
Acorn will concentrate on technologies.
I also feel sorry for Acorn dealers -what will their situation be with
Xemplar handling sales?
RPC1 is to be continued with, but it looks like the end of the trail.
Can't blame anyone, it always was a backs-to-the-wall scenario once PCs
took such a strong grip on things. . . . .
(Hopefully non-inflamatory note; there are alternatives to Windross on
PCs if people are thinking of migrating, however sadly.)
Stuart
--
Stuart Bell
writing from a Wintel-free zone.
Liam Gretton
<URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I can't believe this, as all the hard work has already been done and
> people have been placing deposits - and Acorn are still promoting it on
> their newlook Workstations page - which looks recently revamped.
It does seem a bit rash, considering that it's only just about to be
released. I feel very sorry for all those developers who have poured
resources into new products for Phoebe (especially the hardware products),
not to mention the staff who've lost their jobs.
<URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <3600F757...@tenet.co.uk>, Dave Vint
> <URL:mailto:da...@tenet.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Lee McGinty wrote:
> >
> >
>
> Looks worrying, but there again, why is Acorn still promoting (and taking
> deposits) of the Phoebe on it's newly redesigned web pages at
> http://www.acorn.com/acorn/ ?
...erm, the announcement (according to Bloomberg) was only made today...
- Mark.
--
mailto:hol...@argonet.co.uk
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:l...@ehiltd.dircon.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Noone seems to have mentioned this...
>
>
> Another restructuring announced this morning (information from
> Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
> concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
I can confirm most of the above, BUT
I have heard this morning of TWO different groups interested in
BUYING the ACORN WORKSTATION division.
There have been rumours within Acorn of a MBO (Management Buy Out)
and today I've heard of possible some previous employee involvement,
hopefully this will materialise.
Or
Another company from outside Acorn, is now looking seriously
at buying the Workstation division, I have been reliable informed (I can't
say anymore, except I am not personally involved)
SO NORMAL SERVICE SHOULD BE RESUMED SHORTLY
I would expect a 1-2 Month delay in Phoebe.
The ASIC IOMD2 apparently worked first time, and the finishing touches
were being done.
Apparently the board which is headed up by an Accountant! did not want
to commit funds to manufacturing? They are focussing on Digital TV.
As a knock on result Acorn World 98 will not go ahead, BUT
another show may? Again I can say nothing more yet.
Acorn are to continuing Production of RiscPC 1's.
The staff number cut may reflect the fact that the Logistics part of Acorn
(Accounts, personnel Warehousing) is now going to come under
Xempler, previously it was the reverse, Xempler used Acorn's warehouse,
accounts. etc
Please do not phone me for any more information, as at present I
have none, and I will post here anything I do hear.
Chris Evans
--
CJE Micro's / NCS 'Acorn Centre of Technology'
Telephone: (01903) 523222 Fax: (01903) 523679
ch...@cje.co.uk http://www.cje.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN.
Barry Wickett
<URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.980917125056.895M-100000@aniu>, James Holtom
> > for Phoebe must have been spent by now, I'd have thought it would make
> > more sense to push them into production, and at least get some earnings,
> > rather than ditch the project at this late stage...
It does seem a more than a little daft. It works. They've spent a few
million on it. Why cancel it?
Their argument of having something to display their technology on
doesn't hold much water now!
>
> I can't believe this, as all the hard work has already been done and people
> have been placing deposits - and Acorn are still promoting it on their newlook
> Workstations page - which looks recently revamped.
They also seem to be clammering for more people to place orders for the
machine. I guess they didn't get enough orders and thought it wasn't
worth going any further.
>
> > Oh well -- time will tell -- I think the people I feel sorriest for
> > (aside from the folks at Acorn) is Steve Turnbull, and the guys that have
> > just bought-out Acorn User...
>
> Well, existing users won't suddenly stop buying Acorn user, so I don't if it
> will have an immediate impact anyway.
>
No, but what for the long term? Without support developers can't keep
going for much longer. What would the magazine review in say a year's
time?
> > [Unless the unspecified activities that he couldn't discuss, was the
> > /continuation/ of the Phoebe project...]
>
> Perhaps there ought to be a "management buyout" of the Workstation division.
> Perhaps Chris Cox could re-recruit Peter Bondar and they could continue as
> "Acorn Workstations Ltd" or something.....
>
I would love to think this were possible. Perhaps it is, but
realistically I can't see it myself.
Does this mean Acorn Browse and Java are also dead?
Barry
James Holtom
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.980917125056.895M-100000@aniu>, James Holtom
> <URL:mailto:hol...@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
> > But on the grounds of probability things do not look so good, if this
> > report is substantiated... (And after-all Bloomberg are-not some dodgy
> > back-room zero-credibility web-site...)
>
> It's true - even Dave Walker's been made redundant :-(
Oh sh!t!
I've known Dave for quite a while, having met him just as he was leaving
Bristol post-MSc for Acorn [back in 1993].
He's always been ever-so helpful with things-Acorn... Definitely one of
the good-guys...
> Oh well, time to look for a new platform, I guess...
Well I'd been wondering how I could possibly afford a Phoebe + a P2
system that I need for Windows (spit) and FreeBSD + pay my tax-bill for
'97-98. I think the problem has just evapourated.
Damn!
James
Chris Evans
Or
Chris Evans
Telephone: (01903) 523666 Fax: (01903) 523679
Adrian Jackson
> I can confirm most of the above, BUT
> I have heard this morning of TWO different groups interested in
> BUYING the ACORN WORKSTATION division.
Ah well. Time to start the first round of way-out wild and
crazy speculation, then...
...didn't Steve Turnbull say that the new Acorn User wouldn't
just be selling the magazine and that he couldn't say anything
more at the moment about what else it would be selling? :-)
Adrian
Tor Houghton
> Apparently the board which is headed up by an Accountant! did not want
> to commit funds to manufacturing? They are focussing on Digital TV.
>
When did accountants ever push innovative products? That said, I am not
so sure Phoebe is innovative enough.
Accountants are to be placed in one area: the accounting department.
NEVER at management positions. Hell, look at John Major, for chrissake.
Rgds,
Tor Houghton.
Mark Koek
This is sad. Especially since, from a business point of view, it
actually makes sense. You employ some people who could be making you an
enormous lot of money, but instead of that you're fighting an uphill
struggle against the M$ giant and are actually making a loss. It makes
sense to redirect your efforts towards more attainable goals.
Acorn computers always had some sort of base in the UK Education market,
but the signs there weren't very encouraging any more, with the UK
Government rubbing up to Bill Gates so publicly.
But all I can really think of is that it's so terribly, immensely,
horribly, unbelievably unfair. This, apparently, is what you get for
producing quality.
It's a sad day.
Mark Koek
mk...@wi.leidenuniv.nl
Fat German
> Man.
>
> This is sad. Especially since, from a business point of view, it
> actually makes sense. You employ some people who could be making you an
> enormous lot of money, but instead of that you're fighting an uphill
> struggle against the M$ giant and are actually making a loss. It makes
> sense to redirect your efforts towards more attainable goals.
The world would be a nice place if accountants did not rule it. Nobody does
blue skies research any more. Nobody develops stuff just because it's fun.
It's all about profit. It all stinks.
Mark.
Greg Hennessy
<Ba...@tquest.org.uk> wrote:
>
>It does seem a more than a little daft. It works. They've spent a few
>million on it. Why cancel it?
>
Because there is not rational market for it
>Their argument of having something to display their technology on
>doesn't hold much water now!
Quite.
>They also seem to be clammering for more people to place orders for the
>machine. I guess they didn't get enough orders and thought it wasn't
>worth going any further.
I cannot believe that they even proposed it in the first place.
greg
James Holtom
> In article <ant1713231cbq#H...@bohunt.demon.co.uk>, Paul Vigay
> <URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > I can't believe this, as all the hard work has already been done and
> > people have been placing deposits - and Acorn are still promoting it on
> > their newlook Workstations page - which looks recently revamped.
>
> It does seem a bit rash, considering that it's only just about to be
> released.
Indeed -- None of it makes any sense given the proximity of RPC2, and
AW'98 -- I am sure the cancelation fees will be collosal (for the
exhibition and IOMD2 and all the other bits they've cancelled...)
I wonder if IMS perhaps fancy having a full-blown desktop machine as
well as a portable...
> I feel very sorry for all those developers who have poured
> resources into new products for Phoebe (especially the hardware products),
> not to mention the staff who've lost their jobs.
Indeed :(
How is this going to affect Leicester -- seeing as a portion [all?] of your
space imaging stuff is driven from Acorn kit?
James
Liam Gretton
<URL:mailto:hol...@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
> How is this going to affect Leicester -- seeing as a portion [all?] of
> your space imaging stuff is driven from Acorn kit?
For some (certainly not all) projects here we use Acorns for testing and
calibration of space-based instruments, but I can't see it being much of a
problem for us. Although we've kept up with what Acorn has to offer (all but
one of our RPCs are SA-equipped), there are still quite a few Arcs doing
sterling work.
We're under some pressure to move over to PCs for future missions, and I
guess the demise of Phoebe will make it hard for us to push for their
continued use.
Still, I was looking forward to getting hold of a Phoebe for my desk :-(
Astute Graphics
I just received the news about Acorn and have got a few comments;
1) The people behind Project Avante are not about to 'down tools'
and are continuing with the development of this highly advanced
product - especially as it was designed to run on a Risc PC
(a Phoebe would have nice, but /not/ essential).
2) I personally have quite good reason why as to not panic. The
Acorn world is not going to vanish overnight and I can see a
future, albeit after much chaos (which is not good for anybody).
3) We have pushed a lot of time and effort into where we wish to
go and do not feel sorry that this investment has taken place.
We will continue, and more announcements with regards to Project
Avante will be made shortly on C.S.A.Announce
Finally, all the best to those who have recently lost their jobs
at Acorn. They did their best.
Nicholas van der Walle of Astute Graphics
http://www.astutegrfx.demon.co.uk/
Andrew Berry
<URL:mailto:hol...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant1713460b0q#H...@bohunt.demon.co.uk>, Paul Vigay
> <URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Looks worrying, but there again, why is Acorn still promoting (and
> > taking deposits) of the Phoebe on it's newly redesigned web pages
> > at http://www.acorn.com/acorn/ ?
>
> ...erm, the announcement (according to Bloomberg) was only made
> today...
Yes, but Acorn themselves would obviously have known before the
announcement was made; I think this is the point Paul was making.
Cheers,
--
Andrew Berry (and...@metallinks.com) - ICQ 15521869
http://www.metallinks.com/
This is not a test of power
James Hammerton
> On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Lee McGinty wrote:
>
> > Another restructuring announced this morning (information from
> > Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
> > concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
[snip]
> I still find it hard to believe -- given that the majority of the R&D
> for Phoebe must have been spent by now, I'd have thought it would make
> more sense to push them into production, and at least get some earnings,
> rather than ditch the project at this late stage...
Problem is the marketing and selling of the machine itself costs money
(e.g. for advertising, producing manuals/brochures and support) and
they'd need to be confident of recouping that to make it worth while
pressing on. Presumably they don't, hence the cancellation.
> Oh well -- time will tell -- I think the people I feel sorriest for
> (aside from the folks at Acorn) is Steve Turnbull, and the guys that have
> just bought-out Acorn User...
I also feel sorry for all Acorn users who have stuck with a platform
loyally for so many years only to see it finally bite the dust.
> [Unless the unspecified activities that he couldn't discuss, was the
> /continuation/ of the Phoebe project...]
Even if there were some sort of buyout of the Workstations division,
the likelihood of success is low, though I suppose the Amiga provides
a role model for this, except that it had far more of a user base than
RiscOS has.
[snip]
> Bugger.
Quite.
James
--
James Hammerton, Research Student, School of Computer Science,
University of Birmingham | Home Page: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~jah/
Connectionist NLP WWW Page: http://www.cs.bham.ac.uk/~jah/CNLP/cnlp.html
Replace "seemysigfile" with "james" in my email address
Thomas Boroske
sad news, isn't it ? So it's essentially over now. Finally. And there was
me thinking Acorn would still be around in 20 years time, producing
one new flagship desktop computer every five years or so.
Does anyone think I'm too pessimistic if I say Acorn is the new
Amiga now ? I mean, people are already speculating on IMS possibly
taking over, or perhaps Steve Turnbull has something to do with it -
but let's face it, there's simply no third party organisation that's
even near the size (in people and competence) of Acorn. And we've already
been criticizing that there're not enough people to
- Maintain a decent website
- Develop RiscOS as fast as needed
- Solve some "outstanding issues", like a proper compiler
etc etc.
Sob ...
Depressed,
--
Thomas Boroske
James Hammerton
> In article <3603eb9b....@news.dircon.co.uk>, Lee McGinty
> <URL:mailto:l...@ehiltd.dircon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Noone seems to have mentioned this...
> >
> >
> > Bloomberg). Acorn are reducing their staff from 175 to 100,
> > concentrating on new products and cancelling Risc PC 2.
>
>
> I have heard this morning of TWO different groups interested in
> BUYING the ACORN WORKSTATION division.
>
> and today I've heard of possible some previous employee involvement,
> hopefully this will materialise.
>
> Or
>
> Another company from outside Acorn, is now looking seriously
> at buying the Workstation division, I have been reliable informed (I can't
> say anymore, except I am not personally involved)
>
> SO NORMAL SERVICE SHOULD BE RESUMED SHORTLY
I think that would be better phrased as SOME SORT OF SERVICE SHOULD BE
RESUMED SHORTLY. Whether Phoebe and the RiscOS platform can continue
to be developed successfully by the group that buys out the division
is highly uncertain, unless the group has a lot of backing/financial
muscle.
Jim Lesurf
Barry Wickett <Ba...@tquest.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant1713231cbq#H...@bohunt.demon.co.uk>, Paul Vigay
> <URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> It does seem a more than a little daft. It works. They've spent a few
> million on it. Why cancel it?
The timing does seem absurd at first glance. It would've made more sense
to cancel when Peter Bondar left *or* to 'give it a go' and decide after
trying to sell for a while.
However, it has seemed to me for some time, from messages emerging from
Acorn in recent weeks, that a kind of covert 'battle' has been going on
between the 'bean counters' who hate any kind of consumer manufacturing
(i.e. for sale to individual customers as opposed to sale of designs or
intellectual property on contract/license to businesses) and those who
believe desktop hardware is the foundation of future success in the
intellectual property area. It seems as if the bean counters have won and
decided not to spend the money required to set up a production line and
commit cash to component stock.
It may be that they have, until now, presented the RPC2 as a forthcoming
'going concern' in the hope of finding a corporate buyer. Stopping the
process leading to launch, in itself, lowers the potential sale value of
this business area. They may also be assuming that they can wait and see
if those made redundant come back with a plan for a 'buy out' that will
relieve them of the messy business of making desktop machines for real
people.
> No, but what for the long term? Without support developers can't keep
> going for much longer. What would the magazine review in say a year's
> time?
Speaking as someone who finds RiscOS and some of its apps (e.g.
TechWriter) virtually essential. I'll be keeping RiscOS boxes going for as
long as I can to *use* them. I need this for a productive working life and
for some small measure of sanity! In the absence of a RPC2 I'll keep my
RPCs going whilst possible, and will probably if I can also buy a peanut
with the money saved.
The worry is, indeed, the survival of developers. Some like the Avante
group must be particularly snookered by the way Acorn have behaved.
> > Perhaps there ought to be a "management buyout" of the Workstation
> > division. Perhaps Chris Cox could re-recruit Peter Bondar and they
> > could continue as "Acorn Workstations Ltd" or something.....
> >
I really *hope* that something like this happens. If it did I'd even
invest in it, although I'm not exactly as rich as the gates of hell...
> Does this mean Acorn Browse and Java are also dead?
One of my main concerns for the future is Java. I can imagine continuing
to use a RPC until defeated by one of three things
1) Some hardware fails that can no longer be replaced
2) I need a more up-to-date JVM for daily work
3) some new 'killer' software requirement appears
A buyout might allow a RPC2 to appear, perhaps bundled with some decent
software. But what about Java 1.2 - and beyond?... Developing a
'validated' JVM/JDK is serious stuff. Outside Acorn, Peter Naulls is doing
an excellent job as a 'one man band' of porting/writing in his own right,
but trying to keep up with the big boys in this area could be very
demanding. And for anyone wanting to keep using a RiscOS box, Java becomes
ever more important in my view as the way to break beyond the limits
imposed by the 'ghetto'.
Acorn have recently shown a willingness to 'rent out' RiscOS3. I hope it
might be possible for someone - a buyout or a 3rd party - to do something
similar to bring the RPC2 into production. Both for the livelyhoods of all
involved, and for users like myself who need it. If I was rich enough I'd
emulate the guy who bought a company cos he liked their razors. Alas, I'm
not, but I'd still pay somewhat more than the *original* projected price
of a RPC2 to get one or two!
I also extend much sympathy to the people at Acorn who were dumped this
morning. It is bad enough to be made redundant. It makes it worse, to be
left feeling that the people you were working for regard your creative
efforts as "not good enough to support". This sadly shows the poor state
of the thinking of many who tend to run public (i.e. shareholder)
companies in the UK. They know the cost of everything and the value of
nothing. They regard any investment in the future as a 'risk' to be
avoided. Alas, all too typical.
Where there is no vision, the people also perish.
Hopefully, someone can organise a way to pick up the RPC2 *and* those
whose livelyhoods depend upon it. I'm still ready to put some money in
that direction if they do, and I hope I'm not alone.
Slainte,
Jim
--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
MMWaves http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/MMWave/Index.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html
TechWriter http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/TechWrite/Tips1.html
Dutton CDs http://www.duttonlabs.demon.co.uk/index.html
Liam Gretton
<URL:mailto:jc...@st-and.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> One of my main concerns for the future is Java. I can imagine continuing
> to use a RPC until defeated by one of three things
[snip]
> 2) I need a more up-to-date JVM for daily work
[snip]
Surely Acorn will still require an up-to-date JVM for their NC boxes? If
not, that's more money down the pan - IIRC the Java licence cost Acorn in
the region of 1 million quid alone.
Nigel Parker
Two things strike me about the bloomberg release. Firstly, it doesn't
appear to be text from Acorn, although it must be based on something from
Acorn. This leaves me hoping that RPC2 cancelled, may mean the R&D
project has ended, since the product is completed - could still mean a
Phoebe release (but unlikely)?
If it really has been completely abandoned, then who's going to take up
the license to manufacture the thing? Any takers? If it really was a
bean counter decision, then surely even they would be happy to license the
complete designs to someone?
Better get another RiscPC1 I suppose (sold mine recently)! And a nice
unix workstation ;-)
A sad day.
<in the voice of Homer Simpson>
You maniacs, you blew it up! Damn you, damn you all to hell!!
Nigel
--
Girton College, Cambridge, England, CB3 0JG. Tel: 0411 384803
http://welcome.to/nigels nigel....@iee.org
Neil Spellings
[snip]
> Surely Acorn will still require an up-to-date JVM for their NC boxes? If
> not, that's more money down the pan - IIRC the Java licence cost Acorn in
> the region of 1 million quid alone.
Yes, Acorn will still need RISC OS and other products like Java as these are
already used in many of their new 'core' products. What will probably happen is
that whoever buys the workstations division will have to licence RISC OS and
other cruicial apps from Acorn.
Regards,
/Neil/
--
+-------------------------+---------------------------------+
| Neil Spellings | Spellings Computer Services Ltd |
| NT Systems Analyst | Telephone 0171 451 1960 |
+-------------------------+---------------------------------+
| StrongARM Acorn RiscPC Owner |
| Chairman, Association of Acorn User Groups (AAUG) |
+------------- http://www.argonet.co.uk/scs/ ---------------+
Views expressed are entirely my own...
Dickon Hood
Andrew Berry <and...@metallinks.com> wrote:
: In article <ant171336965Q9#H...@sarpc.local.net>, email
: <URL:mailto:hol...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
: > ...erm, the announcement (according to Bloomberg) was only made today...
: Yes, but Acorn themselves would obviously have known before the
: announcement was made; I think this is the point Paul was making.
Things don't always work like that. I was expecting this announcement this
morning, but that's only because I'd been tipped off by an anonymous person
last night, and *[s]he* only *suspected* it was going to happen.
--
Dickon Hood
Due to binaries posted to non-binary newsgroups, my .sig is
temporarily unavailable. Normal service will be resumed as soon as
possible. We apologise for the inconvenience in the mean time.
Clockmeister
Thomas Boroske <y000...@ws.rz.tu-bs.de> wrote in article
<fbac148748%y000...@tu-bs.de>...
> Hello,
>
> sad news, isn't it ? So it's essentially over now. Finally. And there was
> me thinking Acorn would still be around in 20 years time, producing
> one new flagship desktop computer every five years or so.
>
> Does anyone think I'm too pessimistic if I say Acorn is the new
> Amiga now ?
Well, the Amiga does have a future although not very well defined.
Which raises a point... The only way the platform can have a future is if
the users remain loyal, as is the case with the Amiga. It was the remaining
users (quite a few of them) which interested Gateway and finally pushed
them to buy Amiga out.
If a company realises the potential sales market because of the number of
users still using an orphan platform they are likely to consider purchasing
the production rights to that platform.
Remember that the Amiga was in nowhere land for four years, and with only a
handfull of hardware developers keeping the machine competetive it
survived.
As an Amiga user I would have to suggest you stay loyal to your platform,
even if Acorn hasn't. If there is a potential market someone may snap it
up.
Failing that, could I interest you in a new Amiga in about a year and a
half?
Just kidding.
Don't give up all hope yet!
Regards,
Clockmeister.
Greg Hennessy
<locatio...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>Maybe, however I would be very, very surprised if the workstations division
>is not an attractive buy to somebody or other.
>
For what exactly ? A niche platform with less than stellar performance
serving a rapidly shrinking market.
>Up until today, RPC's are still in production, and make a profit.
Any school not looking closely at the alternatives is very foolish
indeed.
>This week, Phoebe has been up and running for the first time.
>The development work has been done and paid for.
>The software is ready to make use of it.
>
But obviously the market is not there. So we have X million Ł down the
toilet. Sounds like the previous management @ Acorn have a lot to
answer for.
>Surely *somebody* can make a go of it, even if the idiots on the board
>can't?
Thats quite harsh.
greg
Greg Hennessy
wrote:
>When did accountants ever push innovative products? That said, I am not
>so sure Phoebe is innovative enough.
>
That was obvious from the start.
>Accountants are to be placed in one area: the accounting department.
>NEVER at management positions. Hell, look at John Major, for chrissake.
If the company is up shit creek without a paddle then having an
account driving things & NOT techies is exactly what one needs.
greg
Greg Hennessy
wrote:
>But all I can really think of is that it's so terribly, immensely,
>horribly, unbelievably unfair. This, apparently, is what you get for
>producing quality.
Producing an overpriced underspecified niche product that no one will
buy ? I think not.
greg
Liam Gretton
<URL:mailto:mgre...@madge.com> wrote:
> Nobody does blue skies research any more. Nobody develops stuff just
> because it's fun.
We do :-P
Michael Prior-Jones
>
> In article <ant1713231cbq#H...@bohunt.demon.co.uk>, Paul Vigay
> <URL:mailto:pvi...@bohunt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > <URL:mailto:hol...@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
<Snip>
> > > [Unless the unspecified activities that he couldn't discuss, was the
> > > /continuation/ of the Phoebe project...]
> >
> > Perhaps Chris Cox could re-recruit Peter Bondar and they could continue as
> > "Acorn Workstations Ltd" or something.....
> >
Look again closely at Stan Boland's words on the report. He doesn't
mention the cancellation of the project,
only expresses his regret at the redundancies. IMHO, there's rather more
to this than meets the eye. Some might say that I'm too much of an
optimist.
It does seem strange that only two days ago Acorn were making big noises
about how fantastic the RPC2 would be. Major restructuring doesn't
happen overnight, in my experience. If they were going to axe it
completely, why spend the money promoting it the week before the project
is cancelled?
Maybe Steve Turnbull knows...
Michael Prior-Jones
BBC Research & Development
Opinions expressed are not those of the BBC, and must not be taken as
such.
Stuart Bell
> Yes, but Acorn themselves would obviously have known before the
> announcement was made; I think this is the point Paul was making.
Yes, but had it changed its site first, we would have known something
was 'up'.
--
Stuart Bell
writing from a Wintel-free zone.
Steve Turnbull
Thomas Boroske <y000...@ws.rz.tu-bs.de> wrote:
> Does anyone think I'm too pessimistic if I say Acorn is the new
> Amiga now ? I mean, people are already speculating on IMS possibly
> taking over, or perhaps Steve Turnbull has something to do with it -
> but let's face it, there's simply no third party organisation that's
> even near the size (in people and competence) of Acorn.
Oi, I resent that implication.
It's not size that counts, it's how you use it :-)
Let me just say that I am not [yet] despondent, the news came to
us just as we were having a staff meeting so "the chaps" could meet
my partners -- it was certainly a bit of a bombshell but, without
being able to go into any detail, the reaction was "what are we
going to do about it" not "oh sh*t let's give up and go home".
--
Steve Turnbull (st...@turnbull.cix.co.uk)
http://www.cix.co.uk/~turnbull/
... Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Steve Turnbull
Adrian Jackson <adr...@dai.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
> Ah well. Time to start the first round of way-out wild and
> crazy speculation, then...
>
> ...didn't Steve Turnbull say that the new Acorn User wouldn't
> just be selling the magazine and that he couldn't say anything
> more at the moment about what else it would be selling? :-)
I have to say that when I made that comment I knew nothing about
what was going on inside Acorn.
--
Steve Turnbull (st...@turnbull.cix.co.uk)
http://www.cix.co.uk/~turnbull/
... I'm leaving my body to science fiction.
Steve Turnbull
cmk...@cix.compulink.co.uk (Greg Hennessy) wrote:
> >Accountants are to be placed in one area: the accounting department.
> >NEVER at management positions. Hell, look at John Major, for chrissake.
>
> If the company is up shit creek without a paddle then having an
> account driving things & NOT techies is exactly what one needs.
I couldn't agree with you less.
Financial control is absolutely essential *all the time* but what is
considered to be "accountant-think" is absolutely fatal.
--
Steve Turnbull (st...@turnbull.cix.co.uk)
http://www.cix.co.uk/~turnbull/
... Brevity is the soul of lingerie
Greg Hennessy
<y000...@ws.rz.tu-bs.de> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>sad news, isn't it ? So it's essentially over now. Finally. And there was
>me thinking Acorn would still be around in 20 years time, producing
>one new flagship desktop computer every five years or so.
>
Despite my often vocal criticism of the platform I take no joy in its
demise. It was however inevitable. If you do not innovate you die.
The last time Acorn was innovative was in Jul 1987. That 1mb 305 was
the first computer I owned & even today the warm fuzzy feeling of
owning it still has some echoes within.
>Does anyone think I'm too pessimistic if I say Acorn is the new
>Amiga now ?
Unlike the Amiga, I believe the number of enthusiasts are just not
there to keep it going. Even the Amiga has a dearth of software these
days. Given the rather rudimentary nature of the underlying OS, it
will be somewhat of a wasted effort to leverage application
development on platforms like Linux through porting or whatever.
>- Develop RiscOS as fast as needed
>- Solve some "outstanding issues", like a proper compiler
>etc etc.
These issues should have been tackled 8-9 years ago. Acorn is finally
seeing the consequences of failing to do so then.
greg
garyp
Nigel Parker <URL:mailto:95...@eng.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> Two things strike me about the bloomberg release. Firstly, it doesn't
> appear to be text from Acorn, although it must be based on something from
From what Ive seen it is the same/very similar
> Acorn. This leaves me hoping that RPC2 cancelled, may mean the R&D
> project has ended, since the product is completed - could still mean a
> Phoebe release (but unlikely)?
Sorry, cancelled as in NO RPC2
> If it really has been completely abandoned, then who's going to take up
> the license to manufacture the thing? Any takers? If it really was a
> bean counter decision, then surely even they would be happy to license the
> complete designs to someone?
>
> Better get another RiscPC1 I suppose (sold mine recently)! And a nice
Like many ppl a suppose
> unix workstation ;-)
>
> A sad day.
>
> <in the voice of Homer Simpson>
> You maniacs, you blew it up! Damn you, damn you all to hell!!
>
>
> Nigel
Gary
--
The /\ | ) |\ /| ga...@thesidingsbbs.demon.co.uk
|__| |-- | \/ |
| | | \ | | ga...@armclub.org.uk
Club
Kell Gatherer
>The timing does seem absurd at first glance.
It's plain silly.
>They may also be assuming that they can wait and see
>if those made redundant come back with a plan for a 'buy out' that will
>relieve them of the messy business of making desktop machines for real
>people.
Two companies: Acorn pursuing digital TV & thin-client solutions, and Acorn
Workstations Ltd, making desktop computers. This is a split of their
expertise, and may lead to key Acorn people jumping ship....
>Speaking as someone who finds RiscOS and some of its apps (e.g.
>TechWriter) virtually essential. I'll be keeping RiscOS boxes going for as
>long as I can to *use* them. I need this for a productive working life and
>for some small measure of sanity! In the absence of a RPC2 I'll keep my
>RPCs going whilst possible, and will probably if I can also buy a peanut
>with the money saved.
Me too.
<snip>
>Hopefully, someone can organise a way to pick up the RPC2 *and* those
>whose livelyhoods depend upon it. I'm still ready to put some money in
>that direction if they do, and I hope I'm not alone.
You're not.
--
Kell Gatherer
ke...@locationworks.com
www.locationworks.com
Adrian Look
>In article <ant17122...@xmm4.xra.le.ac.uk>, Liam Gretton
><l...@star.le.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>>Oh well, time to look for a new platform, I guess...
>
>Maybe, however I would be very, very surprised if the workstations division
>is not an attractive buy to somebody or other.
>
>The development work has been done and paid for.
>The software is ready to make use of it.
>
>can't?
Indeed, may be even a management buy-out lead by an ex-Acorn employee?
--
Adrian Look
<mailto: adrian at looksystems dot demon dot co dot uk>
LOOKsystems Limited
15 Grovehill Drive
Falmouth
Cornwall
TR11 3HS
Tel/fax: +44 (0)1326 318279
Adrian Look
>On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Liam Gretton wrote:
>
>> In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.980917125056.895M-100000@aniu>, James Holtom
>> <URL:mailto:hol...@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
>> > report is substantiated... (And after-all Bloomberg are-not some dodgy
>> > back-room zero-credibility web-site...)
>>
>> It's true - even Dave Walker's been made redundant :-(
[snip]
>I've known Dave for quite a while, having met him just as he was leaving
>Bristol post-MSc for Acorn [back in 1993].
>
>He's always been ever-so helpful with things-Acorn... Definitely one of
>the good-guys...
Indeed. :-(
Dickon Hood
Nigel Parker <95...@eng.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
: Two things strike me about the bloomberg release. Firstly, it doesn't
: appear to be text from Acorn, although it must be based on something from
: Acorn. This leaves me hoping that RPC2 cancelled, may mean the R&D project
: has ended, since the product is completed - could still mean a Phoebe
: release (but unlikely)?
It's dead, gone, buried, and if it ever sees the light of day I'll be
stunned. Pleased, but stunned. I've spoken (well, typed at) those affected,
and it's all true. End of story. These rumours of buyouts are for the
optimists only, I'm afraid.