What does RISC OS mean to you?
David Bradforth
article, or would like to, about what RISC OS means to its users?
It's a question vastly open to interpretation - and it's quite
intended to be.
Dave
Alex' A. Interrants
David Bradforth <davidbr...@googlemail.com> hat geschrieben:
RISC OS applies focus at fundamental conditions. No tele but good
service.
A.
--
Venusberg, European Alps
RISC OS is an uncommon diamond of computer-age
Quilljar
but has now been overtaken by advancing technology and no longer does what I
want. Apart from Artworks which I still find the best vector program on the
planet and which I can use on my PC by means of VRPC.
--
Yours Quilly,
http://quilljar.users.btopenworld.com/
Simon Challands
"Quilljar" <N...@home.today> wrote:
> It means an old OS that I loved and supported from my start in computing,
> but has now been overtaken by advancing technology and no longer does what I
> want. Apart from Artworks which I still find the best vector program on the
> planet and which I can use on my PC by means of VRPC.
Really? When did it stop doing what you want, and what made it stop
working? I suppose you really mean you now want to do other things as
well that can't be done on it.
--
Simon Challands
Tim Hill
<63fc484b-720b-49bb...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
David Bradforth <davidbr...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Simple question :) What does RISC OS mean to you? I'm writing an
> article, or would like to, about what RISC OS means to its users?
Simple OS with excellent apps (Pluto, Organizer, Prophet). Though not
particularly secure it avoids the attention of the mindless twits who
plague other majority OSes with vulnerability attacks.
Pinboard (RO) is superior to Desktop (Win32) as it doesn't randomly
reorganise itself from time-to-time (with a mode change) and it doesn't
allow installing applications to add themselves to it!
--
Want better than BT? www.timil.com/usenet.php
Want a genuine but spam-proof address for Usenet? Visit www.invalid.org.uk
The originating email address of this message is invalid: www.timil.com/ask.php
... "My blessings go with thee" King John, Act iii, Sc.3
MikeCarter
wrote:
It is a nice compact OS with an intuitive GUI,
I couldn't have developed my website 'stress free' with out its Drag
and Drop features.
I can do exactly what I want to do on it, as it doesn't treat you like
an infant.
> Dave
--
Mike Carter
ZureNet - The Student RISC OS Site
http://www.zurenet.co.uk
Dave Symes
Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> In article
> <63fc484b-720b-49bb...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> David Bradforth <davidbr...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Simple question :) What does RISC OS mean to you? I'm writing an
> > article, or would like to, about what RISC OS means to its users?
> Simple OS with excellent apps (Pluto, Organizer, Prophet). Though not
> particularly secure it avoids the attention of the mindless twits who
> plague other majority OSes with vulnerability attacks.
> Pinboard (RO) is superior to Desktop (Win32) as it doesn't randomly
> reorganise itself from time-to-time (with a mode change) and it doesn't
> allow installing applications to add themselves to it!
In which case Mr Timmy, you need to install Restore Desktop on 'yer' PC.
Dave S
--
Steve Potts
David Bradforth <davidbr...@googlemail.com> wrote:
[snip]
To me, it means very low maintenance, stable, effecient OS and hassle free
computing. At work I have to put up with Windows, so have little patience
with that when in leisure time, but RISC OS doesn't increase stress and
annoyance like Windows does.
I say stable, because although clearly it's possible to bring RISC OS down to
its knees, in my experience operations which worked once don't randomly crash
the system other times, and yet I find this tends to happen elsewhere.
RISC OS means a productive, positive computing experience, giving me to the
tools to operate in the way I want without dictating my thought processes to
me.
Cheers
Steve
--
StevePotts at blastzone DOT demon STOP co DOT uk (www.blastzone.demon.co.uk/)
Written on RISC OS.
http://www.riscos.com/
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Wendy Gray
As a non-technical, female user 'of a certain age', who started using
computers as a teacher in 1981 on the BBC B, progressed through the
BBC Master, Archie, RO2, RO3, SA and have now arrived at RO4 on the
RPC and have an Iyonix to get to grips with, these are my thoughts:
It's user-friendly.
It's on ROM. Non-corruptable and the machine would still function even
if the hard drive crashed. Hence the usefulness of DiskKnight.
It doesn't high tail itself off to get updates online without my
knowledge.
It doen't do peculiar things when I'm word processing.
It has a middle menu button that I can right-click on so I can make
several chioces without having to open up all the menus each time.
It doesn't go into safe mode or hybernation and then refuse to wake
up.
It doesn't suddenly crash for no reason whatsoever.
The hard drive is formatted in a non-M$ way, so it is unlikely
anything nasty can read it and reort back to some unauthorised spy.
When I install something, I can keep a better track of where it has
put itself and therefore can uninstall it if I want to.
I can do email and newsgroups in safety.
The 'community' is small enough that there is little likelyhood now of
viruses, Trojan Horse, worms etc, especially as the knowledgeable
sentinels here "know where everybody lives".
I get good after sales service.
I don't have to buy a new computer every 2 years or so because of
built in obsolescence.
I can use !Paint to take snapshots of bits of screens.
It comes with !Draw and !Paint for free.
I have a PC laptop, but I only use it for Belgian ING Home Banking,
browsing the internet and working with Word, Excel, Powerpoint and
Smartboard files that I need for/got from school. Even then I have
problems as I've Office 2007 and school only has 2003!
One thing I would like is to see those little cogs turn around. some
weird urge makes me want to be able to click on them and make them
spin :-)
Wendy
--
I'm pink, therefore I'm spam.
Stanley Buchan
<nos...@all.invaliid> wrote:
> Skip
>
> I say stable, because although clearly it's possible to bring RISC OS down
> to
> its knees, in my experience operations which worked once don't randomly
> crash
> the system other times, and yet I find this tends to happen elsewhere.
>
> RISC OS means a productive, positive computing experience, giving me to
> the
> tools to operate in the way I want without dictating my thought processes
> to
> me.
>
> Cheers
> Steve
>
I retired in 1987 from NHS where I signed orders for considerable amounts
for computers for medical use and had no clue how they worked. The local
school agreed to teach me computing using BBC machines. So from then to
1997 learnt and passed umpteen mini exams. Everything was straitforward so
I graduated to a RISC PC using 3.7 without ever having the disasters my pal
in Havant was having frequently while using Microshite. At school the
teacher set up a demonstration with RISC machine a Microsoft machine so we
could compare computing speeds. The RISC machine always beat the Microsoft.
As Paul says RISC is best!
Regards Stan Buchan
--
_ _________________________________________
/ \._._ |_ _ _ /' ZFC Gold Zimmer LXXXI
Orpheus Internet Services
\_/| |_)| |(/_|_|_> / 'Internet for Everyone'
_______ | ___________./ http://www.zfc.org.uk
... I forgot my tagline file...
Theo Markettos
> Simple question :) What does RISC OS mean to you? I'm writing an
> article, or would like to, about what RISC OS means to its users?
As a developer, it's just about possible for one person to understand at a
reasonable level how everything works.
Theo
Rob Hemmings (News)
<63fc484b-720b-49bb...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
David Bradforth <davidbr...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Dave
I like using an operating system where I feel in control of what is going
on (RISC OS) rather than a constant fight over who is in charge
(Windows)! It is also very easy to develop small applications and has
excellent software for many of my day-to-day tasks.
I do have a Windows machine but that is only used for (some) web
browsing, playing PC games or on the rare occasions where I need complete
Windows compatibility for a task. Generally, I enjoy the experience of
using RISC OS so much more than Windows and it is much less effort to
keep my RISC OS systems working at full efficiency.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Hemmings Southport
rhn...@dsl.pipex.com
Dave Symes
**I agree with all the positives that have gone before.**
But the Grumpmaster is now going to inject some reality in to this
discussion, it is my nature and I feel duty bound to express it.
A short while ago, and earlier today, and yesterday, and the day
before-that... while using this beloved SARPC, my grump quotient shot from
tick over 2/10 to 999/10 and guess why?
******** Internet browsers!
Netsurf. Went to a site, got partway through filling in a form, then blaa
it didn't work... Clicky button does nothing mista! and so on.
Tried with Oregano1. Part way through the form... Clicky button does
nothing mista!
Oregano2... Clicky button does nothing mista!
And all that even before I got to the submit button.
I did think of having a go with WXL, but why bother, I should have run the
Win PC at the start and save myself time and stress.
Ran Firefox 3. Filled in the form, submitted, and got on with my work in
no time at all.
Reality check please folks, before RO sycophancy gets out of hand.
Dave S AKA Grumpmaster.
--
Chika
through.
In der Nachricht
<63fc484b-720b-49bb...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups
David Bradforth <davidbr...@googlemail.com> hat
geschrieben:
> Simple question :) What does RISC OS mean to you? I'm writing an
> article, or would like to, about what RISC OS means to its users?
>
> It's a question vastly open to interpretation - and it's quite intended
> to be.
It's a simple, intuitive OS that, despite its age, still does some things
that I want to do in a way that I want it to be done. Though hardware
speed is a problem in some situations, it has an overall responsiveness
that belies its age and can, on occasion, excel more recent systems.
It is not a computing panacea, though I wonder, had it had the money
lavished on it that other systems have had, if it might have been. It's an
impossible question to answer at this late stage but I still use it
because it does what I tell it to do and doesn't try to interrogate me
endlessly or try to second-guess me.
--
//\ // Chika <miyuki><at><crashnet><org><uk>
// \// Mitsuo... Menda... naha naha...
... I may not always be perfect, but I'm always me.
Alex' A. Interrants
Mark <ma...@poppyland.plu$.com.invalid> hat geschrieben:
[schnipp]
> > Netsurf. Went to a site, got partway through filling in a form, then blaa
> > it didn't work... Clicky button does nothing mista! and so on.
> >
> > Tried with Oregano1. Part way through the form... Clicky button does
> > nothing mista!
> >
> > Oregano2... Clicky button does nothing mista!
> >
> > And all that even before I got to the submit button.
> >
> > I did think of having a go with WXL, but why bother, I should have run the
> > Win PC at the start and save myself time and stress.
> >
> > Ran Firefox 3. Filled in the form, submitted, and got on with my work in
> > no time at all.
> >
> > Reality check please folks, before RO sycophancy gets out of hand.
> >
> > Dave S AKA Grumpmaster.
> >
>
> Yep; happens over and over. I've just struggled to block an ebay
> bidder. Failed with all the RO browsers. Fired up Ubuntu to use
> Firefox: my carefully crafted block list had been wiped. Thanks
> Acorn...
Take care. You mix RISC OS with one thing which isn't asked here (?).
RISC OS is good for what it is made for. The web isn't a RISC OS
invention.
I don't like the web in all. It is a waste of resources and energy. The
colourful multimedia world is a mindless waste of time and it diverts
you from the import things in your life. I circle my activities to
USENET and electronic mails. This is effictive and it works very well,
also with RISC OS.
Most of the fundamental sites (special: forms) could also work with
Netsurf (PHP) but they are ridiculously done (Javascript etc.) although
there isn't really a need for to get things working. I'm sure most of
the wheels could be done in another way so the task could be done also
with RISC OS. What we're missing in the world is cleverness, and this is
something RISC OS keeps.
I've never used Ebay. It's dominant but why should I? The sites are so
"huge", and the only thing what you want is to sell or to buy. It's like
you want to take a bath, but you don't need an ocean to do this!
Novadays I like Netsurf most in crest of all webbrowsers, regardless of
the point that a lot of sites don't work very well but I don't think
this has to do with RISC OS self. Where Netsurf works it's great, and
the most of the RISC OS based websites in any case (special
www.arcsite.de - very fast, good content, clear and informative).
A.
PS: Sure, if I liked to play computer games, I would buy a C64, apart
from ELITE (I'm playing the same session for 15 years now). There aren't
so many good games for the RISC machine as there are for the C64.
--
Venusberg, European Alps
What I cannot do with RISC OS I haven't to do.
Louie
Bob Latham <b...@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <4faf7604...@dsl.pipex.com>,
> Rob Hemmings (News) <rhn...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <63fc484b-720b-49bb...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> > David Bradforth <davidbr...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > Simple question :) What does RISC OS mean to you? I'm writing an
> > > article, or would like to, about what RISC OS means to its users?
> > > It's a question vastly open to interpretation - and it's quite
> > > intended to be.
> > > Dave
> > I like using an operating system where I feel in control of what is
> > going on (fRISC OS) rather than a constant fight over who is in charge
> > (Windows)! It is also very easy to develop small applications and has
> > excellent software for many of my day-to-day tasks.
(snip)
All I'm going to say (and Paul is about to fall off his chair at this
remark) is.... Zap!!!! I love zap (ok, still in the honeymoon stage as I
only started using it recently for learning C, and yesterday was introduced
to CSS (which I'm obviously missing the point of, because I can't see how
it's complicated, even with nesting styles)). But anyway, it's absolutely
fantastic! You can tell it what your doing an it colours all the keywords
accordingly. You can do the whole inserting text thing instantly in another
place (goodness knows what that's called). It's just sooooooo cool.
Oh, hangon, there's also Pluto. I've got news set up on the Mac and the Eee,
and none of them are as efficient as Pluto for listing threads and
organising or as easy to set up. So Pluto is excellent too.
Opps- forgot OvationPro. I was in the apple centre the other day looking a
Quark and the other one... Illustrator? maybe not, can't remember, but there
were a few DTP packages I was looking at, and none of them were a patch on
OvationPro- I can actually set up my pages in ovation pro with a bleed and
cropmarks, and then I can print using pamphlet mode and it stitches all the
pages together and aligns them! Ok, whatsit on the mac does that too, but
what I wasn't able to establish was if it automatically aligned the pages
and removed the bleed along the inner edges so the output is a print ready
file- OvationPro does this! and costs diddly-squat by comparision to Quark
or Indesign/ Illustrator! Amazing!
Not done yet!.... And of course we have ArtWorks and PhotoDesk! These have
already been discussed, so won't go into these, but really, need I say more?
So without going into detail on the other apps, here is a list of apps that
without, I would now (having been shown the light) be completely lost...
TechWriter (to any engineering/ science based student this is an absolute
must)
ChangeFSI
RO Tunes (have to put that in, or I'll be accused of ignoring Paul!)
Private Eye
NewsTicker
DataPower
The list just goes on on.
Now, someone tell me, other than the internet (and MP4/ film stuff), which I
feel we have already established as lacking points, what else does RISC OS
not do as well as other OSs? And just to be clear- I use the Iyonix as a
working computer, not as an enthusiasts focus.
Simple. Intuitive. Reliable.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ - Ooo! quite please with that. Mine!
Louie
Tony Moore
[snip]
> Most of the fundamental sites (special: forms) could also work with
> Netsurf (PHP) but they are ridiculously done (Javascript etc.)
Recently, I was surprised to find a page in Yahoo Mail which says
There was a problem!
At this time, Mail Options is not supported by browsers that have
javascript disabled. We are actively looking into this and hope to
have it fixed as soon as possible.
If one of the major players is providing an alternative to javascript,
there is yet hope that others may follow.
Tony
Tim Powys-Lybbe
> Now, someone tell me, other than the internet (and MP4/ film stuff),
> which I feel we have already established as lacking points, what else
> does RISC OS not do as well as other OSs?
It is not the OSs that are the problem but the programs, so let's have a
go:
1. There is no ROSC OS program that does genealogy half as well as
almost any of those on Mac or Windows.
2. There is no RISC OS program that handles printing a spreadsheet as
well as Excel and the Open office equivalents (Mac or Windows).
3. There is no RICS OS program that handles 3D spreadsheets like
DynaPlan (mainframe and DOS, not sure if it ever made it to
Windows).
4. There is no RISC OS database program that makes such easy user
interfaces and with standard SQL as Metaphor on OS/2.
> And just to be clear- I use the Iyonix as a working computer, not as
> an enthusiasts focus.
And so do I. Though I am slowly contemplating moving the whole lot to
Mac-with-Virtual-Acorn if some powerful new RISC OS native hardware does
not come out soon.
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe t...@powys.org
For a miscellany of bygones: http://powys.org/
David Bradforth
>
> Now, someone tell me, other than the internet (and MP4/ film stuff), which I
> feel we have already established as lacking points, what else does RISC OS
> not do as well as other OSs? And just to be clear- I use the Iyonix as a
> working computer, not as an enthusiasts focus.
>
> Simple. Intuitive. Reliable.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ - Ooo! quite please with that. Mine!
>
> Louie
I think that, for me, this makes a very good point. When you find
something that's lacking about your computer setup, it's nature i
think to find a way to resolve it.
Dave
David Pitt
[snip]
> Now, someone tell me, other than the internet (and MP4/ film stuff), which
> I feel we have already established as lacking points, what else does RISC
> OS not do as well as other OSs? And just to be clear- I use the Iyonix as
> a working computer, not as an enthusiasts focus.
I was up for not adding to this thread, even I get fed up of me beefing
about stagnant RISC OS. Then something happened that I felt did need to be
reported.
Computing is a hobby here. If I was in the business of working for a living
then yes, RISC OS has sufficient office tools, the potential snag might be
compatibility with Windows file types.
I was just smugly thinking that internet, mp4 and iPlayer was reason enough
to move away from RISC OS. Browsing is the point of fracture that has most
of us looking elsewhere.
I was also smugly thinking that moving away from RISC OS presented
opportunities to explore new things and with that in mind had Cygwin up and
running and had just compiled a "Hello World" with gcc.
Oddly the compiled result was called a.exe, adding the -o switch produced an
executable with the right name. There was just one tiny hitch, neither
executable would run, a cygwin dll was missing. Before I got any further, up
popped a report saying I had a trojan, W32.Ahlem.A@mm, which on googling I
found to be a.exe.
Well that's me good and hoisted by the proverbials. I can only conclude I
downloaded a bent Cygwin.
It may or may not be relevant but Vista's UAC was off to permit another
attempt at getting VRPC to run on this laptop.
The point of this sorry tale is that one can hold views on the relative
merits of RISC OS and other platforms, but maybe the biggest difference
between Windows and RISC OS is the weight of malware on the majority
platform.
--
David Pitt
Tim Hill
> In which case
[Snip]
> you need to install Restore Desktop on 'yer' PC.
Shouldn't have to. An OS shouldn't by default have such a fundamental
flaw.
--
Want better than BT? www.timil.com/usenet.php
Want a genuine but spam-proof address for Usenet? Visit www.invalid.org.uk
The originating email address of this message is invalid: www.timil.com/ask.php
... "If I lose mine honour, I lose myself" Ant & Cleo, Act iii, Sc.4
Tim Hill
<da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> **I agree with all the positives that have gone before.**
> But the Grumpmaster is now going to inject some reality in to this
> discussion,
[Snip]
The question is in the Subject, it's not 'what can browsers do on other
platforms which can't be done on RISC OS?'
Okay, I'll say it: RISC OS browsers are generally rubbish for most sites
so I usually use a WinXP box for everyday stuff like the Tesco order I'm
doing ATM.
Please can we not have another browser sidetrack?
--
Want better than BT? www.timil.com/usenet.php
Want a genuine but spam-proof address for Usenet? Visit www.invalid.org.uk
The originating email address of this message is invalid: www.timil.com/ask.php
... "Your monument shall be my gentle verse, which eyes not yet created shall o'er read" Sonnet 81
Ray Dawson
> Now, someone tell me, other than the internet (and MP4/ film stuff),
> which I feel we have already established as lacking points, what else
> does RISC OS not do as well as other OSs? And just to be clear- I use
> the Iyonix as a working computer, not as an enthusiasts focus.
Printing
Scanning
OCR
Music (audio) recording and editing
Music notation
Office suite
Convert CDs to MP3s
Playing streaming music online
DVD authoring
Webcam
What Nero does
Movie editing and conversion
Competent photo and image editing
OK, RISC OS machines can do some of the above, but only at a very basic
level. Also, software which can do any of the above costs an arm and a
leg.
For instance, compare the price of Photodesk (which is a pretty basic
image manipulation application) with something like Elements or PSP. The
freeware Finale Notepad way outperforms the RISC OS version of Sibelius. I
don't believe you can buy a RISC OS suite of office programs for under £90
- the price of a 3 licence MS Office. VideoReDo costa bout £0 - there is
no video editing package on RISC OS.
Zap and StrongEd are excellent tools, but there are many more equally or
more competent editors available on other platforms, either free of for
not a lot of money. Pluto, again is excellent, but so is Gemini - which
costs about the same and is still being developed.
For basic, simple tasks which don't require any processing power or
multimedia capabilities, RISC OS is fine. It has GUI advantages over other
OSs. But, for real world computing requiring the facilities listed above,
forget it.
Use RISC OS for the little it can do but network it to a PC or Mac to do
the many more things it can't. Enjoy its GUI for simple things but be
honest about what isn't possible.
Cheers,
Ray D
Ray Dawson
It's finding the second person who understands which is the problem :-)
Cheers,
Ray D
Paul Sprangers
What does RISC OS mean to me?
Yesterday, a friend who hasn't got a computer (those blessed people still
exist), but who does own a digital HDD handycam, asked me if I could burn
the contents of this hard drive to DVD.
As such things are not designed for RISC OS use, I went to our Vista laptop
and installed the accompanying Sony software. After having done the dish
wash, I found the laptop switched off (this happens once or twice a day),
but 10 minutes later, when the computer was ready to use again, the
software appeared to be installed.
However, when running, the program complained that it couldn't find the
necessary components and insisted that I should install it again. So I did.
Half an hour later, after a successful installation process, the program
complained again that necessary components were missing (WHICH components,
for Gods sake?) and that it should be re-installed.
To cut a dreadful story short, after having tried it a third time, I
decided to de-install the software and forget about the whole thing.
There was no de-install function, not in the program directory, nor on the
CD-ROM. The special Remove-Program-Window that is part of the Windows
configuration tools, didn't show the software. When I finally tried to
delete everything manually, Vista told me that I'm not authorised to do
that. As a result, this useless software is now permanently on the task
bar, both on my setup as on my wife's.
Breathtaking programs have been written for Windows (Babylon, Google Earth
to call but two), but the OS doesn't deserve them, if you ask me.
Writing this in Pluto. It feels so good to be back!
Kind regards,
Paul Sprangers
Russell Hafter News
tasks that the RPC cannot do.
But one person's 'real world computing' has nothing to do
with anothers.
In article
<gemini.k2ibif0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>, Ray
Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> For basic, simple tasks which don't require any
> processing power or multimedia capabilities, RISC OS is
> fine. It has GUI advantages over other OSs. But, for real
> world computing requiring the facilities listed above
> (now below), forget it.
Of those that Ray suggests are 'real world computing'
> Printing
99% fine under RISC OS (I do not use inkjets, having seen
them go wrong frequently in schools, under windows). I use
an HP2100M Laserjet and various dot matrix printers.
> Scanning
> OCR
I last had reason to do these about 18 months ago, so not
worth investing much money for! Used an old win95 laptop
that comes out once very 6 months and a £10 Canon scanner
from Morgan.
But certainly not mainstream here!
> Music (audio) recording and editing
> Music notation
Never done either of those, and cannot foresee ever doing
so.
> Office suite
I have the lastest version of Easiwriter, which is excellent
and still being actively developed.
For a spreadsheet Pipedream is fine. All it needs to do is
add, subtract, multiply (and very occasionally) divide + a
few simple IF statements. Why would I want to have Excel or
equivalent for that?
Most Excel spreadsheets I get sent can be easily read with
!ViewXLS. They are mostly not spreadsheets at all, but
tables of data.
Database - the only thing I need this for is an address
book.
I do have a copy of Open Office, in order to read MSWord
documents that Easiwriter cannot cope with - happens about
once every three months.
But Open Office is incredibly slow and bloated.
> Convert CDs to MP3s
Why would I want to listen to degraded MP3 versions of a CD?
Actually I bought 90% of my large music library years ago,
long before CDs were invented.
> Playing streaming music online.
Again, why?
> DVD authoring
No interest. (The DVDs that I buy I want to see on a proper
screen, not a computer monitor.) I would rather leave the
authoring to those who know what they are doing.
> Webcam
I can understand why a ski resort might want to have a feed
from a webcam to a website, but I cannot understand why
private individual by them. To post junk on facebook I
suppose?
> What Nero does
Yes, Once a year I use Nero for a stint at sorting out
didgital photos onto other CDs so that the pics are ordered
more logically. But I could live without it, e-mailing the
pictures to the office 37 miles away where they would be
used.
> Movie editing and conversion
Again, no interest.
> Competent photo and image editing
The little I need to do involves taking 10Mb JPEGs and
reducing the in size to something suitable for a website.
If I did not have a PC !ChangeFSI and !Variations between
them would do all I need.
> Use RISC OS for the little it can do but network it to a
> PC or Mac to do the many more things it can't.
But think first as to whether you actually need or really
want to do them, or are you playing simply because you have
a computer that allows you to?
The one thing that I do find myself resorting to the PC a
lot for, that Ray does not mention, are PDF forms which are
editable, but not saveable. You load the form with Adobe
Reader, enter all the data, then print the form and send it
off.
So, handling of incoming PDFs is another area where RISC OS
tools are lacking, though these is no problem generating
PDFs under RISC OS.
And, of course, the various programs I wrote (in BBC BASIC
and BBC COMAL) 20 odd years ago in the early days of my
business, and which I still use, would be useless under
Windows.
I could get by (albeit with some difficulty) without the PC.
But without and RPC I would be totally stuffed.
--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Holiday specialists for Germany, Alsace, Austria, Belgium, Luxembourg, Czech Republic
David
Studio Plus... a pleasure to work (95% of the workload) with 7 days a
week... entirely reliable... a tool that simply works and does what is
required.
best wishes
--
Dave Wisnia, Leeds, UK
Dave Symes
Tim Hill <t...@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <4faf7c4...@triffid.co.uk>, Dave Symes
> <da...@triffid.co.uk> wrote:
> > **I agree with all the positives that have gone before.**
> > But the Grumpmaster is now going to inject some reality in to this
> > discussion,
> [Snip]
> The question is in the Subject, it's not 'what can browsers do on other
> platforms which can't be done on RISC OS?'
> Okay, I'll say it: RISC OS browsers are generally rubbish for most sites
> so I usually use a WinXP box for everyday stuff like the Tesco order I'm
> doing ATM.
> Please can we not have another browser sidetrack?
Attempting to impose your will on Usenet again Tim?
RISC OS to me, means exactly what I wrote, it is no side track.
I agree with all the positives that have gone before. Particularly those
made by Louie.
But as far as the internet goes, the browsers are all inadequate and cause
me an inordinate amount of stress.
That's what RISC OS means to me, and no posturing by you will change that
view.
Dave S
--
charles
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> I run my business with RPCs, and a Windows PC for those
> tasks that the RPC cannot do.
[Snip]
> And, of course, the various programs I wrote (in BBC BASIC
> and BBC COMAL) 20 odd years ago in the early days of my
> business, and which I still use, would be useless under
> Windows.
but you can get BBC Basic for Windows - Richard Russell at
www.rtrussell.co.uk is the source.
--
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"
Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11
charles
Paul Vigay <invalid-em...@invalid-domain.co.uk> wrote:
> > Music (audio) recording and editing
> Not as comprehensive as some Mac and Windows equivalents, but it's
> certainly possible on RISC OS. I've been transferring a number of old
> vinyls to CD using RISC OS and the quality is as good as the original.
> > Music notation
> Arguably RISC OS is still the best for this. I have a number of clients
> still using (and swearing by) Sibelius. Sure it's not 32-bit and doesn't
> work on the very latest hardware, but it still rivals the PC/Mac for ease
> of use, speed and flexibility. I was only talking to a customer last week,
> who wishes to keep his aging Risc PC rather than buy a new PC, simply
> because he was disappointed when a (large) music dealer gave him a demo of
> Sibelius on the PC.
I bought a second hand copy of Sibelius (not cheap) which is on my RISC PC.
I find it incredibly 'clunky' compared with the PC application 'Mozart'
which my music teacher uses.
Ray Dawson
> <gemini.k2ibif0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,
> Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>
> > Printing
>
> What's wrong with printing? RISC OS fully supports a large majority of
> the printers available on the market, including the very latest
> professional Xerox printers (ie. the one RISC OS Now is printed on -
> direct from RISC OS).
RISC OS doesn't directly support many modern printers and, when it does,
not at their photo resolutions.
> Most photo printers are also catered for, via Gutenprint.
Which is an add on and not free. It also doesn't support all photo
printers and certainly not AiOs.
> > Scanning
>
> Again, not a major problem. Sure some scanners are not supported under
> RISC OS,
No modern scanner works on RISC OS - you have to hunt around for an old
one which does.
> but then some are not supported under Windows or Mac either.
Name one.
> At the end of the day, if you want to buy a scanner you tend to get one
> which works with your system.
Which limits you to an old scanner without being able to use the provided
facilities which Windows or a Mac suppports.
> > OCR
>
> Currently a weakness of RISC OS, as the available OCR software is not
> very accurate.
And doesn't support auto scanning or conversion to other than text output.
> > Music (audio) recording and editing
>
> Not as comprehensive as some Mac and Windows equivalents, but it's
> certainly possible on RISC OS. I've been transferring a number of old
> vinyls to CD using RISC OS and the quality is as good as the original.
Very slow and basic facilities. Compare any RISC OS audio editing software
with even the free Audacity or quite cheap Sony Sound Forge. No FX or
other facilities which PC or Mac software does as a matter of course.
Also, how long does it take to convert a 1 hour mp3 file on Iyonix.
> > Music notation
>
> Arguably RISC OS is still the best for this.
You must be joking!
> I have a number of clients still using (and swearing by) Sibelius. Sure
> it's not 32-bit and doesn't work on the very latest hardware, but it
> still rivals the PC/Mac for ease of use, speed and flexibility.
It is obvious that you have never even seen, let alone used, free or cheap
PC notaion software. Even the free ones easily outclass RISC OS Sibelius
and the more expensive PC Sibelius, Mozart and Finale are superb with many
facilities.
> I was only talking to a customer last week, who wishes to keep his aging
> Risc PC rather than buy a new PC, simply because he was disappointed
> when a (large) music dealer gave him a demo of Sibelius on the PC.
It doesn't work very well on a 38s ;-)
> > Office suite
>
> Depends what you want. RISC OS can pretty much do everything OpenOffice
> can with perhaps the exception of presentation,
Which is a major omission.
> but there are several presentation packages available for RISC OS. Or
> did you mean file transfer? In which case even Open Office won't work
> with Microsoft Office files (ask Louie about the fun she had trying to
> import a Microsoft Access database into OO....)
Who is talking about Open Office? Not many people use that but, even so
it's a lot cheaper than the RISC OS alternatives.
> > DVD authoring
>
> Perfectly capable on the Iyonix. Or do you mean movie creating? In which
> case try being a bit more specific, otherwise people will think you're
> just knocking RISC OS for the sake of it.
I mean DVD authoring. This means taking several movies, editing them,
adding menus etc and turning them into standard DVDs.
> > Webcam
>
> Again, no problem. I've got a RISC OS webcam here (although it's
> currently not hooked up). If you contact CJE Micro's I'm sure they can
> advise you as to various webcam solutions.
I use my webcam with Skype all the time. I don't have to do any fiddling
on the PC - it all works automatically.
Can a webcam be use with Grapevine as it can with a PC on MSN?
> > What Nero does
>
> What does it do? You mean copy CDs? If so, RISC OS can copy CDs, and in
> fact it will copy them better than Nero does. Indeed, the Iyonix
> faithfully managed to copy Roger Waters "Flickering Flame" audio CD
> which not only Nero won't touch, but if you put the CD in a PC or a Mac,
> it will say "drive empty", so this point is very much a 1 nil win to
> RISC OS. :-)
No, it means you have a dodgy or protected CD which the other OS
rightfully rejects.
> > Movie editing and conversion
>
> Point conceded. I guess I need to let one of your points be vaguely
> valid. :-)
At lats! :-)
> > Competent photo and image editing
>
> I reckon RISC OS wins this hands down. With Photodesk, Variations,
> JClean et al and things like my home made WebGallery, competent photo
> and image editing is a doddle on RISC OS and in my line of work I find
> this gives me an advantage because on several occasions in the past
> couple of weeks, I've come up with results quicker than a local
> commercial graphic design agency using PCs and Macs - despite having
> exactly the same source images and customer remit. :-D x2
But expensive Photodesk doesn't even come close to chaper PC image editing
software. I mentioned PSP and Elements - neither of which Photodesk comes
even close to. There is also a lot of free image manipulation software
which puts Photodesk in the shade.
> > OK, RISC OS machines can do some of the above, but only at a very
> > basic level. Also, software which can do any of the above costs an arm
> > and a leg.
>
> I disagree. And as for your last comment, you're spouting rubbish.
> Photodesk costs a fraction of Photoshop.
I didn't mention Photoshop. I compared expensive Photodesk with much
cheaper PC and Mac alternatives and which blows the socks off Photodesk.
There's no point in justifying Photodesk by saying 'it does all I want it
to do' if that is a fairly mediocre requirement.
> Top Model cost a fraction of the cost of PC/Mac 3D suites, OvPro costs a
> fraction of the cost of Quark, Variations is free - and I've not seen
> anything on the PC which does what it does.
Because you haven't looked! You don't want to admit that there is
free/cheap software available on the PC (I don't know about Mac) which is
more competent than expensive RISC OS software. Because you don't know
about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
> ProCAD is a fraction of the cost of Autodesk or AutoCAD so either you
> pirate all your software, you're misinformed or you haven't made much
> effort in your comparison/slagging off of RISC OS.
I don't pirate ANY software and I'm not misinformed. I'm not slagging off
RISC OS - merely being honest about its capabilities. Which I'm afraid you
are not.
> > The freeware Finale Notepad way outperforms the RISC OS version of
> > Sibelius.
>
> Debatable. I know several professional musicians who would disagree with
> you there.
Professional musicians wouldn't use the freeware Finale Notepad - but they
also wouldn't use RISC OS Sibelius or any other RISC OS notation software.
They would use PC Sib, Mozart or the full blown Finale. Not cheap by any
means, but certainly in a totally different league to anything on RISC OS.
> > I don't believe you can buy a RISC OS suite of office programs for
> > under £90 - the price of a 3 licence MS Office.
>
> No it's not. MS Office standard edition is £289+VAT or are you referring
> to the cut down home/student edition (which only includes
> Excel/Powerpoint, according to the latest Jigsaw catalogue, p.48) In
> which case there's a very competitive student discount available for
> EasiWriter/TechWriter.
The Home/Student edition of MS Office contains Word, Excel, PowerPoint and
OneNote. It costs £75 and is licenced for 3 machines.
The full standard edition of MS Office - which I have - is available to
anyone connected with education, which includes having a child at school,
for under £100. No forms etc to fill in, you just buy it from Ebuyer.
Again, 3 licences in the price.
> > Zap and StrongEd are excellent tools, but there are many more equally
> > or more competent editors available on other platforms,
>
> Name one. I've not found a Windows editor which is a patch on Zap and
> there is definitely no Apple Mac editor which comes anywhere close to
> Zap - and I know from personal experience because it's the one thing
> which prevents me from working when away from home on my Mac laptop.
I use EmEditor and TextPad. Both cost money, but are quite cheap.
> > not a lot of money. Pluto, again is excellent, but so is Gemini -
> > which costs about the same and is still being developed.
>
> And is still let down by the surrounding GUI.
In what way? We are talking about the software itself, not what surrounds
it.
> > For basic, simple tasks which don't require any processing power or
> > multimedia capabilities, RISC OS is fine. It has GUI advantages over
> > other OSs. But, for real world computing requiring the facilities
> > listed above, forget it.
>
> I disagree - but then you know I would. However, I can back up my claims
> from personal experience, whereas you have a reputation for just
> slagging off RISC OS.
Again I disagree. I'm not slagging off RISC OS, but being honest and
realistic. You, on the other hand, have a reputation for making statements
about RISC OS capabilities which are not matched by reality. Your
information about software on other platforms is deliberately misleading
in your attempt to give RISC OS an edge which it clearly doesn't have in
many areas.
Cheers,
Ray D
Ray Dawson
> In a dim and distant universe <4fafe4c...@triffid.co.uk>,
> Dave Symes <da...@triffid.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
> [Snippety snip]
>
> > But as far as the internet goes, the browsers are all inadequate and
> > cause me an inordinate amount of stress.
>
> That's still a subjective opinion though. To many people, myself
> included, NetSurf is perfectly adequate for all my browsing.
What, even your Facebook page? :-)
Cheers,
Ray D
Ray Dawson
> In article <gemini.k2ibif0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,
> Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > Music notation
>
> I find Rhapsody perfectly adequate for everything I need to do - what
> are you doing - writing a symphony for full orchestra ;-)
Not quite - just our worship group :-)
> I can enter in the score of a piece music I don't know to learn it. I
> can transfer to cassette to listen to away from the computer, play
> and/or sing along with it until I am confident to "perform" it on Sunday
> morning.
As I can do with the freeware Finale NotePad. I can also drop in a MIDI
file from the internet and print out the resulting music for the musicians
and singers to perform - in whatever key we want.
I've also used a trial of the £50 Finale PrintMusic version which has a
lot more, including music OCR. With that I can scan a page of music
directly into it, transpose it and give it to our clarinet player.
I must admit I had forgotten about Rhapsody as most references have been
to Sibelius. 90% of what I do is done with the free NotePad but the OCR
capability of PrintMusic makes the £50 worthwhile, although £10 more than
Rhapsody.
Cheers,
Ray D
Matthew Thompson
Paul Vigay <invalid-em...@invalid-domain.co.uk>
wrote:
> In a dim and distant universe <4fafe0b8...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> enlightened us
> thusly:
>> The one thing that I do find myself resorting to the PC a lot for, that
>> Ray does not mention, are PDF forms which are editable, but not saveable.
>> You load the form with Adobe Reader, enter all the data, then print the
>> form and send it off.
>> So, handling of incoming PDFs is another area where RISC OS tools are
>> lacking, though these is no problem generating PDFs under RISC OS.
> I presume you don't have the latest version of ArtWorks, which allows you
> to import PDF documents, edit them and then re-save them. It works really
> well. :-)
Isn't this what R Comp's new release PDF suite is for ? making RISC OS
much better for all things PDF related ? The manual mentions editing
PDF files.
cheers
Matthew
--
Message sent from an IYONIX www.iyonix.com
Using RISC OS 5 : RISC OS Open Ltd www.riscosopen.co.uk
Dave Symes
Paul Vigay <invalid-em...@invalid-domain.co.uk> wrote:
> In a dim and distant universe <4fafe4c...@triffid.co.uk>,
> Dave Symes <da...@triffid.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
> [Snippety snip]
> > But as far as the internet goes, the browsers are all inadequate and
> > cause me an inordinate amount of stress.
> That's still a subjective opinion though. To many people, myself
> included, NetSurf is perfectly adequate for all my browsing.
> Paul
No Paul it's not a subjective opinion, personal prejudiced, or an
emotionally subjective opinion.
Not only do I have much evidence that RO browsers are inadequate, but
there are a number of other persons who've posted with the same
views/problems.
Considering your known bias against *everything* that relates to the MS
OS, I would have thought your opinions on the matter very subjective.
I guess, as Timmy noted we are getting slightly sidetracked.
I'm as enthusiastic about RO as the rest of you, if I wasn't, I'd have
cancelled my Select subs years ago, but I *am* enthusiastic about RO, but
I'm also not afraid to note its failings.
Dave S
--
Tim Powys-Lybbe
> In message <4fafe7ae8einval...@invalid-domain.co.uk>
> Paul Vigay <invalid-em...@invalid-domain.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > In a dim and distant universe <4fafe0b8...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> > Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> enlightened us
> > thusly:
>
> >> So, handling of incoming PDFs is another area where RISC OS tools are
> >> lacking, though these is no problem generating PDFs under RISC OS.
>
> > I presume you don't have the latest version of ArtWorks, which allows you
> > to import PDF documents, edit them and then re-save them. It works really
> > well. :-)
>
> Isn't this what R Comp's new release PDF suite is for ? making RISC OS
> much better for all things PDF related ? The manual mentions editing
> PDF files.
I have heard that this suite is merely a package of programs already
available so is unlikely to include editing. But I am looking forward
to a good review so that we can learn what it actually does.
Tim Powys-Lybbe
<invalid-em...@invalid-domain.co.uk> wrote:
> In a dim and distant universe <4fafe0b8...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
> Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> enlightened us
> thusly:
> > So, handling of incoming PDFs is another area where RISC OS tools are
> > lacking, though these is no problem generating PDFs under RISC OS.
>
> I presume you don't have the latest version of ArtWorks, which allows you
> to import PDF documents, edit them and then re-save them. It works really
> well. :-)
AW may do this well for graphics but it does not, as yet, for text.
Currently it does not join letters into words and sentences nor deal
with bold text nor handle all characters; I understand that some of this
will be addressed in later releases.
Dave Symes
Now I've put the Grumpmasters view to counter the sycophancy, I'll present
my general views regarding, What does RISC OS mean to you?
It's a given that there are areas in which a RO run computer, or the
applications that run on it are very second rate.
I'll leave that there and won't illuminate, as I think we are all very
aware of the extensive list of shortcomings.
On a more positive note, and I do so hate having to be positive as it goes
against the grain of Grumpism...
For many years I've run my business on this old SARPC, and continue to do
so, using Ovation Pro, Eureka, Zap, DrawWorks/Draw and Organizer.
All most excellent applications, and because of the easy use of the RO OS
itself, they are a pleasure to use.
Much of my networking is done using this RO computer, mail, news, and some
browsing, and while I have serious issues with the browsers, I have the
greatest praise for Pluto, Newshound and FTPc, which again, because of the
ease with which the OS works are a pleasure to use.
Despite what some of you may think I use this RO machine for a good
percentage of my computer work, resorting to the Win PC only when I really
have to for Net Browsing or graphics work.
I'm still a RO enthusiast.
Dave S
--
Matthew Thompson
Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote:
> In message of 15 Jun, Matthew Thompson <m...@REMOVETHISred-squirrel.com> wrote:
>> In message <4fafe7ae8einval...@invalid-domain.co.uk>
>> Paul Vigay <invalid-em...@invalid-domain.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In a dim and distant universe <4fafe0b8...@walkingingermany.invalid>,
>>> Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> enlightened us
>>> thusly:
>>
>>>> So, handling of incoming PDFs is another area where RISC OS tools are
>>>> lacking, though these is no problem generating PDFs under RISC OS.
>>
>>> I presume you don't have the latest version of ArtWorks, which allows you
>>> to import PDF documents, edit them and then re-save them. It works really
>>> well. :-)
>>
>> Isn't this what R Comp's new release PDF suite is for ? making RISC OS
>> much better for all things PDF related ? The manual mentions editing
>> PDF files.
> I have heard that this suite is merely a package of programs already
> available so is unlikely to include editing. But I am looking forward
> to a good review so that we can learn what it actually does.
I haven't used it yet, but it is installed on my machine and looking
at the manual in front of me there is a chapter entitled "Editing PDF
files" so I assume it can be done.
Tim Powys-Lybbe
> In message <d0f0fba...@south-frm.demon.co.uk>
> Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote:
>
> > In message of 15 Jun, Matthew Thompson
> > <m...@REMOVETHISred-squirrel.com> wrote:
> >> Isn't this what R Comp's new release PDF suite is for ? making RISC OS
> >> much better for all things PDF related ? The manual mentions editing
> >> PDF files.
>
> > I have heard that this suite is merely a package of programs already
> > available so is unlikely to include editing. But I am looking forward
> > to a good review so that we can learn what it actually does.
>
> I haven't used it yet, but it is installed on my machine and looking
> at the manual in front of me there is a chapter entitled "Editing PDF
> files" so I assume it can be done.
I wonder what program they are using?
In principle you can edit a PDF by using !PDF, exporting the contents to
Draw and working from there. Is this what this suite offers?
Tony Moore
[snip]
> 1. There is no ROSC OS program that does genealogy half as well as
> almost any of those on Mac or Windows.
[snip]
> 4. There is no RISC OS database program that makes such easy user
> interfaces and with standard SQL as Metaphor on OS/2.
DataPower http://www.arsvcs.demon.co.uk/r-comp/dp2/default.htm now at
version 3.05, runs standard SQL and has an excellent user interface. The
latest version is 26/32-bit neutral and can operate in single user, or
client/server mode. The application is under active development, and
support is readily available from R-Comp, or via the Yahoo Groups public
mailing list http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dpdiscuss/
Julian Fry wrote a series of articles, published in Archive Magazine, in
2005, concerning the way in which DataPower can be used in genealogical
projects, with particular reference to GEDCOM files. The articles can be
found in the Archive DVD/CD 20 http://www.archivemag.co.uk/price.html
Tony
Tim Powys-Lybbe
> On 15 Jun 2008, Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > 1. There is no ROSC OS program that does genealogy half as well as
> > almost any of those on Mac or Windows.
>
> [snip]
>
> > 4. There is no RISC OS database program that makes such easy user
> > interfaces and with standard SQL as Metaphor on OS/2.
>
> DataPower http://www.arsvcs.demon.co.uk/r-comp/dp2/default.htm now at
> version 3.05, runs standard SQL and has an excellent user interface.
> The latest version is 26/32-bit neutral and can operate in single
> user, or client/server mode. The application is under active
> development, and support is readily available from R-Comp, or via the
> Yahoo Groups public mailing list
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dpdiscuss/
Well, he is giving a talk to Rougol tomorrow and I had already planned
to go and hear it. I do have a copy of an admittedly old Datapower and
I made the above remarks knowing how poor it was in comparison to
Metaphor, which was even older; and it did not then use standard SQL -
I write as an ex-SQL practitioner. (Have you ever used or seen
Metaphor?)
> Julian Fry wrote a series of articles, published in Archive Magazine,
> in 2005, concerning the way in which DataPower can be used in
> genealogical projects, with particular reference to GEDCOM files. The
> articles can be found in the Archive DVD/CD 20
> http://www.archivemag.co.uk/price.html
And I even lent him several PC programs so that he could see the sorts
of things they did. GEDCOM files are not the be-all and end-all of
genealogy - in fact they lead to rather too much sloppy genealogy; the
critical things are handling source references, digital evidence,
reporting, flexibility of data constructs, charting and internet output.
My statement above about RISC OS genealogy programs remains true.
I would still be delighted to cooperate with anyone who wished to write
a all-singing, all-dancing genealogy program for RISC OS, but I would be
the first to recognise that it represents a huge amount of work.
Alex' A. Interrants
Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> hat geschrieben:
> [schnipp]
>
> > Most of the fundamental sites (special: forms) could also work with
> > Netsurf (PHP) but they are ridiculously done (Javascript etc.)
>
> Recently, I was surprised to find a page in Yahoo Mail which says
>
> There was a problem!
>
> At this time, Mail Options is not supported by browsers that have
> javascript disabled. We are actively looking into this and hope to
> have it fixed as soon as possible.
>
> If one of the major players is providing an alternative to javascript,
> there is yet hope that others may follow.
There is no need for www in case of electronic mail because of SMTP &
POP so what's the problem? All you need is a good provider.
Unfortunately, a lot of people don't know this and use www as ground
zero for their electronic mail correspondences, and unfortunately, also
most of the schools here in Germany are advising pupils how to use email
per www but aren't saying just ONE word about POP/STMP.
A.
--
Venusberg, European Alps
What I cannot do with RISC OS I haven't to do.
Alex' A. Interrants
Paul Sprangers <Pa...@sprie.nl> hat geschrieben:
[schnipp]
> To cut a dreadful story short, after having tried it a third time, I
> decided to de-install the software and forget about the whole thing.
> There was no de-install function, not in the program directory, nor on the
> CD-ROM. The special Remove-Program-Window that is part of the Windows
> configuration tools, didn't show the software. When I finally tried to
> delete everything manually, Vista told me that I'm not authorised to do
> that. As a result, this useless software is now permanently on the task
> bar, both on my setup as on my wife's.
>
> Breathtaking programs have been written for Windows (Babylon, Google Earth
> to call but two), but the OS doesn't deserve them, if you ask me.
>
> Writing this in Pluto. It feels so good to be back!
Less about everything. Keep the mountain small and have an overview or
you will be lost. That's exactly my experience with modern technologies,
too. That's why I run RISC OS... or all I want is everything?
Well, there are jobs you cannot do with RISC OS (3D, Solaris) but so
long you haven't to do it you haven't to do. Most of the time happen in
private life. Who needs a private computer in all?
Use Windows and all their excellence and hungry multimedia with all
their troubles. Or use RISC OS, use your brain and learn how technology
really works.
A.
--
Venusberg, European Alps
Since the sunshine of computers we have really a lot of work.
Ray Dawson
> In a dim and distant universe
> <gemini.k2inqs0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,
> Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
> > As I can do with the freeware Finale NotePad. I can also drop in a
> > MIDI file from the internet and print out the resulting music for the
> > musicians and singers to perform - in whatever key we want.
>
> Erm, Rhapsody does that too.
And Rhapsody is freeware as well?
Actually, I have to admit that Rhapsody seems a lot more competent than I
thought it was, and not too expensive either.
Cheers,
Ray D
Ray Dawson
>
> > Very slow and basic facilities. Compare any RISC OS audio editing
> > software with even the free Audacity or quite cheap Sony Sound Forge.
> > No FX or other facilities which PC or Mac software does as a matter of
> > course.
>
> You said audio recording and editing - which is does do fine. Now you're
> moving the goal posts again. If you've got a good enough source
> recording, why on earth would you want to fiddle about with it? Surely
> most people just want to sample it into the computer so they can record
> to CD/DVD, perhaps with a bit of editing to cut/join tracks together.
I use my PC every week for a couple of basic recording and editing jobs.
Firstly, I search the internet for a particular song I want and usually
find it on last.fm. I then use Soundforge to record the audio stream and
convert it into an MP3.
Secondly, I have a MicroTrack portable digital recorder which I use to
record Sunday services. It's connected to an Aux output of the mixer and
just records anything that goes on in the church. When I get home, I
download the 80+MB file to Soundforge on the PC. I then mark the bits I
want to keep and delete the rest. I cut out any long pauses, normalise the
amplitudes and set the levels before saving out in two separate formats -
a high quality 128K mp3 for CD distribution and a low quality 32K mp3 for
the church web site.
The whole operation takes less than 15 minutes on the PC.
It's a long time since I tried anything similar on my Risc PC, but I
couldn't do it. Maybe RISC OS sound editing and recording software has
come on in leaps and bounds in the last year.
Cheers,
Ray D
Dr Alan Leighton
OS /Iyonix just can't hack it.
In the church or hospital Power Point is a must and the new version in
MS 2007 is even better than it's predecessor. I guess using VA you
could knock something up to do a presentation but it is easier to use
their lap top with your lecture/ sermon on a pen.
Having said that for complex books and leaflets Ovation Pro is so easy
to use and one has the joy of transferring in to OProPC with
simplicity itself. Grief why use MSWord? Use of programs such as
Thump enable me to find illustrations fast! Draw is magnificent. Can't
afford Artworks yet 8-(
Organizer meets my diary needs and as it is going to be developed
further will continue to way into the future.
As for email and browsing I am more than happy with my RComp programs
and Netsurf. I look forward to a quicker FireFox and the ability of
RISC OS browsers to access my Bank (RBS) as only MS will do that.
Never got to grips with what FTPc does and long for a better !Flash
program,.
Ghostscript has never let me down and I use it all the time. It is so
easy to use. I love the little programs that make life easy such as
Searchy, Dict and ClipBoard.
The only thing that worries me is it does not seem so friendly and
helpful as it was. My query took along time to be responded to and I
had to suffer from quite a lot of boring jokes about the subject till
MW came to the rescue. Great man that he is. How would we cope with
out him and DP and the others.
Cheers
Alan
>
--
jl
Vigay <invalid-em...@invalid-domain.co.uk> wrote:
> I was trying to avoid getting into this thread, simply because most
> people around here already know my views on RISC OS and what a pile of
> steaming wotnot Windows is. However, I feel I can't really let Ray's
> post slip through the net without suitable comment....
> In a dim and distant universe
> <gemini.k2ibif0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>, Ray Dawson
> <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
> > Printing
> What's wrong with printing? RISC OS fully supports a large majority of
> the printers available on the market, including the very latest
> professional Xerox printers (ie. the one RISC OS Now is printed on -
> direct from RISC OS).
But a program like Zap still cabbot easily print plain text files. I have
to drag them into Pluto.
> Most photo printers are also catered for, via Gutenprint.
This is a program I don't know. Does it print onto CDs as well?
> > DVD authoring
> Perfectly capable on the Iyonix. Or do you mean movie creating? In which
> case try being a bit more specific, otherwise people will think you're
> just knocking RISC OS for the sake of it.
But far too expensive. I've just been given a miniDV camera and my 3 year
old PC has no trouble handling it. I wouldn't even know how to persuade my
RiscPC to show the films, never mind add titles and edit them.
> > Webcam
> Again, no problem. I've got a RISC OS webcam here (although it's
> currently not hooked up). If you contact CJE Micro's I'm sure they can
> advise you as to various webcam solutions.
> > Competent photo and image editing
> I reckon RISC OS wins this hands down. With Photodesk, Variations,
> JClean et al and things like my home made WebGallery, competent photo
> and image editing is a doddle on RISC OS and in my line of work I find
> this gives me an advantage because on several occasions in the past
> couple of weeks,
No way! The reason I had to buy a PC was that the RiscPC, though fine with
200k JPEGs, was far too slow with the results of my Canon 400D - it simply
takes ages and it can't handle Canon raw format at all.
> > OK, RISC OS machines can do some of the above, but only at a very
> > basic level. Also, software which can do any of the above costs an arm
> > and a leg.
> I disagree. And as for your last comment, you're spouting rubbish.
> Photodesk costs a fraction of Photoshop.
Photoshop is a bad program. But photo editors like CodedColor or Zoner can
be had for little money and do a very good job indeed.
> Top Model cost a fraction of
> the cost of PC/Mac 3D suites, OvPro costs a fraction of the cost of
> Quark,
I don't do word processing any more, and prefer impression if I have to
write the odd letter. But there are perfectly good word processors and
indeed many other programs available for free. Why do you pick the
expensive versions and not mention when freeware?
> > The freeware Finale Notepad way outperforms the RISC OS version of
> > Sibelius.
> Debatable. I know several professional musicians who would disagree with
> you there.
There maybe others that don't.
> > Zap and StrongEd are excellent tools, but there are many more equally
> > or more competent editors available on other platforms,
> Name one. I've not found a Windows editor which is a patch on Zap
Zap is my favourite editor - until I want to print something! Though for
HTML you can get some very good editors for the PC - Kompozer comes to
mind, and even in the terrible editor that comes with Seamonkey you can
spellcheck in different languages, which for me is a must.
> > not a lot of money. Pluto, again is excellent, but so is Gemini -
> > which costs about the same and is still being developed.
> And is still let down by the surrounding GUI.
I would agree that Pluto is an excellent program and can't think of using
any other for my e-mails. On the other hand, I can only use it in Virtual
Acorn as I have never managed to connect my RiscPC to my BT broad band
connection. I bought a network card and all, but try as I may, I can't get
the thing to work. I must be technically to incompetent and I'm the best
there is around here, so I can't go for help.
> > For basic, simple tasks which don't require any processing power or
> > multimedia capabilities, RISC OS is fine. It has GUI advantages over
> > other OSs. But, for real world computing requiring the facilities
> > listed above, forget it.
> I disagree - but then you know I would. However, I can back up my claims
> from personal experience, whereas you have a reputation for just slagging
> off RISC OS.
Well, I agree with him broadly - and I've been on the Acorn scene for
longer than I care to remember.
A wonderful machine originally, still very useful but unable to cope with
modern demands well. Additionally new software and hardware is expensive
and often not very good.
My last few purchases for my RiscPC - 200 pounds worth, were all total
disasters and I have reluctantly decided not to spend any more money on it
- it is not worth it.
Jochen
--
------------------------------------
Limavady and the Roe Valley
http://www.jochenlueg.freeuk.com
Russell Hafter News
<alpine.LSU.1.10.0...@cube.home.local>,
Tascam Holiday <tascam....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jun 2008, Paul Vigay wrote:
> > In a dim and distant universe
> > <81acfba...@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, Tim
> > Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> enlightened us thusly:
> >> AW may do this well for graphics but it does not, as
> >> yet, for text. Currently it does not join letters into
> >> words and sentences nor deal with bold text nor handle
> >> all characters; I understand that some of this will be
> >> addressed in later releases.
> >
> > I've not tried editing the existing text in the
> > document, but Russell was asking about completing forms
> > which are sent out via PDF and this is certainly
> > possible because you can just add your own text into
> > the relevant spaces in the form.
> Russell could well mean actual actionable forms within
> PDF, much like a form within a web page, rather than a
> dotted line field that needs text adding.
I have no idea what they are officially called, but when
loaded into Adobe Reader the fields to be completed turn
yellow when clicked on. You then enter the required dta into
the form. The font and style of what you write are
pre-determined by the PDF - Austrain VAT reclaim forms, for
example, enter the data automatically in Italic, making it
stand out from the original data in the form.
I have only ever received one such form from a UK source,
which was from a company registrar - Computershare, and that
was very limited, as the only data I could enter online was
the name of the scurity. Name and address, for example, had
to be entered after printing, with a pen. Bonkers!
> Such PDF forms require user interaction, and allow the
> data to be submitted online.
--
Russell
http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Holiday specialists for Germany, Alsace, Austria, Belgium, Luxembourg, Czech Republic
Steffen Huber
> On Sun, 15 Jun 2008, Paul Vigay wrote:
>
>> In a dim and distant universe
>>> No, it means you have a dodgy or protected CD which the other OS
>>> rightfully rejects.
>>
>> It means that RISC OS will copy a wider range of CDs than a PC or Mac
>> will.
>> This addresses the original point you made about Nero.
>
> ...except DVDs. I can't remember the last time I needed to copy a CD, or
> even write one, but I need to do the same sort of thing with DVDs all
> the time.
What's the problem with copying DVDs on RISC OS? Of course it can't
decrypt CSS-protected ones as this would be (maybe) illegal, but that
is also the reason why Nero doesn't do it.
Steffen
--
Steffen Huber
hubersn Software - http://www.hubersn-software.com/
Russell Hafter News
<j...@spamnet.co.uk> wrote:
> I have never managed to connect my RiscPC to my BT broad
> band connection. I bought a network card and all, but try
> as I may, I can't get the thing to work. I must be
> technically to incompetent and I'm the best there is
> around here, so I can't go for help.
Surely the supplier of the network card would help by phone?
When I first went down the network line I had all sorts of
problems, and Matt at STD spent huge amounts of time on the
phone with me.
At the end of the day, though, it came down to the OS:
RO3.60 was supposed to do networking, but just refused.
I bought some used 3.70 ROMs from CJE and it just worked.
Since then I have just plugged in another three RPCs
(running 4.02 or 3.70) into the network.
It has taken me around 5 mins to set each machine up,
basicly copying the settings from another machine, but
ensuring that the new machine has a unique IP address and
name.
Not quite plug and play, but almost.
Tony Moore
> In message of 16 Jun, Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 15 Jun 2008, Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > 1. There is no ROSC OS program that does genealogy half as well
> > > as almost any of those on Mac or Windows.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > 4. There is no RISC OS database program that makes such easy
> > > user interfaces and with standard SQL as Metaphor on OS/2.
> >
> > DataPower http://www.arsvcs.demon.co.uk/r-comp/dp2/default.htm now
> > at version 3.05, runs standard SQL and has an excellent user
> > interface. The latest version is 26/32-bit neutral and can operate
> > in single user, or client/server mode. The application is under
> > active development, and support is readily available from R-Comp, or
> > via the Yahoo Groups public mailing list
> > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/dpdiscuss/
>
> Well, he is giving a talk to Rougol tomorrow and I had already planned
> to go and hear it. I do have a copy of an admittedly old Datapower and
> I made the above remarks knowing how poor it was in comparison to
> Metaphor, which was even older; and it did not then use standard SQL -
> I write as an ex-SQL practitioner. (Have you ever used or seen
> Metaphor?)
I write as an erstwhile civil engineer, so I defer to your experience of
SQL, and I regret that I know nothing about Metaphor. However, Since
version 2, DataPower has been based on a sub-set of SQL-92. It also has
a powerful scripting language. Maybe you have a copy of DataPower1?
> > Julian Fry wrote a series of articles, published in Archive
> > Magazine, in 2005, concerning the way in which DataPower can be used
> > in genealogical projects, with particular reference to GEDCOM files.
> > The articles can be found in the Archive DVD/CD 20
> > http://www.archivemag.co.uk/price.html
>
> And I even lent him several PC programs so that he could see the sorts
> of things they did. GEDCOM files are not the be-all and end-all of
> genealogy - in fact they lead to rather too much sloppy genealogy; the
> critical things are handling source references, digital evidence,
> reporting, flexibility of data constructs, charting and internet
> output. My statement above about RISC OS genealogy programs remains
> true.
I don't doubt you.
> I would still be delighted to cooperate with anyone who wished to
> write a all-singing, all-dancing genealogy program for RISC OS, but I
> would be the first to recognise that it represents a huge amount of
> work.
Maybe discuss it with Julian, this evening?
Tony
John Cartmell
<alan.le...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> Use of programs such as Thump enable me to find illustrations fast!
Thumbnails are a native option in RO6 and configurable to intelligent display
in 6.10
--
John Cartmell jo...@finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 or 0161 969 9820
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.qercus.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing
Tony Moore
> In der Nachricht <7f03bdaf4f.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>
> Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> hat geschrieben:
>
> > [schnipp]
> >
> > > Most of the fundamental sites (special: forms) could also work
> > > with Netsurf (PHP) but they are ridiculously done (Javascript
> > > etc.)
> >
> > Recently, I was surprised to find a page in Yahoo Mail which says
> >
> > There was a problem!
> >
> > At this time, Mail Options is not supported by browsers that have
> > javascript disabled. We are actively looking into this and hope
> > to have it fixed as soon as possible.
> >
> > If one of the major players is providing an alternative to
> > javascript, there is yet hope that others may follow.
>
> There is no need for www in case of electronic mail because of SMTP &
> POP so what's the problem?
For me, there is no problem, since I use Yahoo's SMTP and POP already.
I was agreeing with your statement that javascript is used needlessly,
and giving an example of a website in which an alternative is currently
being considered.
[snip]
Tony
Ben Shimmin
>
> I've not even found a decent word processor (paid or free) on the Mac.
> About the only readily available one is Pages, which comes with iWork08
> and it's absolutely dire compared to OvPro. :-(
Interesting. Ovation Pro costs 150GBP. iWork, including Pages, Numbers
and Keynote (a far better piece of presentation software than Powerpoint
and, indeed, anything available on RISC OS), costs 55GBP.
I'm not going to argue whether Pages is `absolutely dire' -- I happen to
think it's pretty good, but I'm sure you will contrive a list of bizarre
things it can't do which render it completely worthless.
There are probably a dozen different word processing/DTP packages
for Mac OS X, but I'm sure they're all useless. And all the text
editors too (including emacs, vim, Textmate, TextWrangler, BBEdit --
all absolute junk). In fact, I'm pretty sure all the software for Macs
in pretty much every category you could care to name is abysmal, and
the RISC OS equivalents, even though they often haven't seen any real
updates in half a decade, are still years ahead. Like Photodesk, for
example. You can't improve on perfection.
b.
--
<b...@bas.me.uk> <URL:http://bas.me.uk/>
`The Americans advise matching socks to your pants, the Italians seem to
contrast with both shoes and pants. The English, always the eccentrics,
wear maroon socks with everything!' -- thesartorialist.blogspot.com
Tim Powys-Lybbe
> On 16 Jun 2008, Tim Powys-Lybbe <t...@powys.org> wrote:
<chomp>
> I write as an erstwhile civil engineer, so I defer to your experience
> of SQL, and I regret that I know nothing about Metaphor.
Then why criticise my statement that Metaphor was a superior system!
(but humungeously expensive and did not migrate from OS/2 to Windows
until much too late. It was part of IBM's strategy to maintain that
OS/2 was an operating system of choice for 'enterprise' users.)
> However, Since version 2, DataPower has been based on a sub-set of
> SQL-92. It also has a powerful scripting language.
That is why I am going to the Rougol talk this evening, to hear about
it.
> Maybe you have a copy of DataPower1?
Probably, somewhere. I gave up on it.
<more chomp>
> > I would still be delighted to cooperate with anyone who wished to
> > write a all-singing, all-dancing genealogy program for RISC OS, but
> > I would be the first to recognise that it represents a huge amount
> > of work.
>
> Maybe discuss it with Julian, this evening?
I already have.
Steffen Huber
> create an iso file of a DVD, unless it's less than 2GB in size.
Since you can only write DVDs with CDVDBurn, it would be sensible
to use CDVDBurn for copying. CDVDBurn transparently handles the 2 GB
limit for you.
BTW, 2 GB is foremost a fileswitch limitation, not a filecore
limitation.
> That also rules out downloading a DVD image (a Linux distro, for
> example) and burning it from RO.
That's correct. However, that's not "copying" in my book ;-)
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Paul Vigay <invalid-em...@invalid-domain.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In a dim and distant universe <4fafe4c...@triffid.co.uk>,
> > Dave Symes <da...@triffid.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
> > [Snippety snip]
> >
> > > But as far as the internet goes, the browsers are all inadequate and
> > > cause me an inordinate amount of stress.
> >
> > That's still a subjective opinion though. To many people, myself
> > included, NetSurf is perfectly adequate for all my browsing.
>
> What, even your Facebook page? :-)
There's the rub maybe like the majority of the UK and the world he doesn't
have or want to use Facebook!
If you do and it doesn't work on a RISC OS browser then you have a
valid point. But the question is "... mean to you"
So the fact that for many people RISC OS browsing is adequate doesn't negate
the fact that it isn't for you!
Charles has mentioned he can't get on with Sibelius which is strange as many
Sibelius Users tell us they have the PC version which they occationally use
as it does have some features lacking in Sibelius7 but that they prefer to
use Sibelius7 when ever they can.
Programs that seem intuative for one person are not necessarily intuative to
another!
Yes it is true that fans can have rose tinted specticles but that doen't
mean they aren't happy!
In the context of this question you can't be wrong from a personal point of
view, and you can't tell anyone else what it should 'mean to them'. There is
no correct answer to the question.
Factual inaccuraces maybe worth correcting, but you can't 'correct' feelings!
Chris Evans
--
CJE Micro's / 4D 'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222 Fax: 01903 523679
ch...@cjemicros.co.uk http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!
Russell Hafter News
<4fb04be58dinval...@invalid-domain.co.uk>,
Paul Vigay <invalid-em...@invalid-domain.co.uk>
wrote:
> I've not even found a decent word processor (paid or
> free) on the Mac. About the only readily available one is
> Pages, which comes with iWork08 and it's absolutely dire
> compared to OvPro. :-(
Well, I really liked Claris Works on the Mac. I still use it
sometimes on the PC - there are jobs it will do for me that
nothing that I have seen on RISC OS can do, though I would
hope that Ovation Pro can!
One very nice touch is that you can very easily create a
small spreadsheet inside a WP document - simply a matter of
clicking on the spreadsheet tool, which is always there,
then dragging over the part of the WP screen where you want
the spreadsheet.
Also, graphics can very easily be made to behave as
characters, so that if you insert a small graphic into a
sentence, and then need to edit the text before the graphic,
it justs moves along the line of text.
Brilliant!
jl
Vigay <invalid-em...@invalid-domain.co.uk> wrote:
> In a dim and distant universe <4fb042...@spamnet.co.uk>, jl
> <j...@spamnet.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
> > But a program like Zap still cabbot easily print plain text files. I
> > have to drag them into Pluto.
> That depends on the printer. I can print direct from Zap to the Xerox
> machines, and I think most printers will be able to handle a plain text
> file sent to them.
Not any more, apparently. I use a Canon IP4000 - one of the few printers
available with a parallel printer port - a dying breed. I can print from
Pluto no problem, Zap refuses or prints in a funny size.
> > This is a program I don't know. Does it print onto CDs as well?
> Yes, assuming the printer is capable of loading CDs.
> > No way! The reason I had to buy a PC was that the RiscPC, though fine
> > with 200k JPEGs, was far too slow with the results of my Canon 400D -
> > it simply takes ages and it can't handle Canon raw format at all.
> ISTR that the Canon 400D is of similar resolution to my own Canon 30D
> camera, from which images load fine on the Iyonix.
The Iyonix is an option for you - not for me. I can't afford to buy two
Ł800 computers. For flight simulators, astronomical software, Cannon raw
format and so on I would need to buy a PC anyway - apart from using the
internet. If my RiscPC can't handle it it has to switch to the PC. Sad but
true.
> Indeed, a friend of mine regularly sends me huge images from her Canon 5D
> camera, and Photodesk has no problem manipulating them - you can see them
> online at http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/photos/ - all post-processing is
> done exclusively using Photodesk.
> > I don't do word processing any more, and prefer impression if I have to
> > write the odd letter. But there are perfectly good word processors and
> > indeed many other programs available for free. Why do you pick the
> > expensive versions and not mention when freeware?
> I've not even found a decent word processor (paid or free) on the Mac.
> About the only readily available one is Pages, which comes with iWork08
> and it's absolutely dire compared to OvPro. :-(
Ovation Pro I have never liked. I don't know what it is - the horrible
sprites or whatever. Impression is the best word processor for my pathetic
little needs these days.
> > There maybe others that don't.
> As I said originally, debatable.
> > connection. I bought a network card and all, but try as I may, I can't
> > get the thing to work. I must be technically to incompetent and I'm
> > the best there is around here, so I can't go for help.
> Have you had a look at my various notes available at
> www.riscos.org/networking/ ? There's no reason why a Risc PC can't
> connect to any broadband service, and it's no more difficult than on a
> PC or Mac - just configure the relevant network settings and away you go.
I've downloaded every single set of instructions I could find and followed
them to the letter. All I succeeded in doing is make it impossible to get
a dial-up connection as well. This I have to use every once in a while to
keep my freeuk account open. The latter problem I managed to solve but I
decided to give up on the network - too complicated. If you do it often,
you get to know all the difficult corners. Doing it just once is like
banging your head against the wall while balancing on your hands. The neat
little network card will hit e-bay as soon as conditions a right.
I love the RiscPC and RiscOS - no argument there. But unless affordable
machines, and a lot more software becomes available, I can't see how it
can compete with the PC - lousy as the Windows OS is. Old hounds like me
will obviously hang in there simply because they have used Acorns for so
many years - but we also are a dying race!
jl
Russell Hafter News <see...@walkingingermany.invalid> wrote:
> In article <4fb042...@spamnet.co.uk>, jl
> <j...@spamnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > I have never managed to connect my RiscPC to my BT broad
> > band connection. I bought a network card and all, but try
> > as I may, I can't get the thing to work. I must be
> > technically to incompetent and I'm the best there is
> > around here, so I can't go for help.
> Surely the supplier of the network card would help by phone?
I bought it on e-bay. As I live in Northern Ireland, all the suppliers are
a long way away.
> When I first went down the network line I had all sorts of
> problems, and Matt at STD spent huge amounts of time on the
> phone with me.
I figured that as I am on line with my PC allready - by simply running a
bit of software - there is no point in bothering someone else with my
problems. If it is so difficult to do - even with a help of an HNC in
electronic and an Msc in a computer related subject - I give up!
Tim Powys-Lybbe
<snip>
> Factual inaccuraces maybe worth correcting, but you can't 'correct'
> feelings!
What about:
"Stalin felt it right to execute millions of opponents to his regime"?
"Hitler felt it right to have a final solution"?
I think we would agree that both these feelings were morally wrong and
in need of a little correction.
Or do you really mean that such feelings should go uncorrected?
Paul Vigay
> Interesting. Ovation Pro costs 150GBP. iWork, including Pages, Numbers
> and Keynote (a far better piece of presentation software than Powerpoint
> and, indeed, anything available on RISC OS), costs 55GBP.
Ahh, I'm not disputing that. Keynote is absolutely amazing and I'll
agree that it's one of the best applications I have on the Mac.
Presentations are the only thing I can do well on the Mac. :-)
> I'm not going to argue whether Pages is `absolutely dire' -- I happen to
> think it's pretty good, but I'm sure you will contrive a list of bizarre
> things it can't do which render it completely worthless.
I just find it unusable, but perhaps that's just me. I'm from the
ClarisWorks era of the Mac and ever since they switched to AppleWorks
and then Pages, things seem to have gone downhill. It looks quite nice,
but when you come to do serious stuff on it, I found it was rather
limiting, especially with (ISTR) multiple linked frames.
> There are probably a dozen different word processing/DTP packages
> for Mac OS X, but I'm sure they're all useless. And all the text
> editors too (including emacs, vim, Textmate, TextWrangler, BBEdit --
> all absolute junk).
Yep. They are all junk. :-) I did go through just about every text
editor I could find on the Mac sometime ago, as I was desperately
looking for a decent text editor so that I could do web design on the
go. I couldn't find one at all. The best one I managed to find, which
was reasonably good was one called Pepper, but development stopped on it
and it was never really fully OS X compatible. BBEdit /may/ be
reasonable but it's too expensive - ie. not cheap enough to tempt me to
buy it to try it out, especially as I can wait until I get home and then
just use Zap. :-)
> In fact, I'm pretty sure all the software for Macs
> in pretty much every category you could care to name is abysmal, and
> the RISC OS equivalents, even though they often haven't seen any real
> updates in half a decade, are still years ahead. Like Photodesk, for
> example. You can't improve on perfection.
Not quite, as Keynote is fabby - as mentioned above. iMovie is not too
bad but IMHO went downhill after iMovie 06 was released. 08 is pretty
poor and I've downloaded a copy of 06.
I've just downloaded a copy of Flex builder so I'll see what that's
like, but that's going away from the original topic which was referring
to RISC OS.
Paul Vigay
> What about:
>
> "Stalin felt it right to execute millions of opponents to his regime"?
>
> "Hitler felt it right to have a final solution"?
>
> I think we would agree that both these feelings were morally wrong and
> in need of a little correction.
>
> Or do you really mean that such feelings should go uncorrected?
At this point I would be inclined to invoke Godwin's Law.
However, the sad fact remains that our present leaders don't appear to
have learnt from the past and are destined to repeat history. :-(
Paul
Mike Clark
Tascam Holiday <tascam....@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008, Chris Evans wrote:
>
> > In article <gemini.k2in6d0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>, Ray Dawson
> > <URL:mailto:r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Paul Vigay <invalid-em...@invalid-domain.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>> That's still a subjective opinion though. To many people, myself
> >>> included, NetSurf is perfectly adequate for all my browsing.
> >>
> >> What, even your Facebook page? :-)
> >
> > There's the rub maybe like the majority of the UK and the world he doesn't
> > have or want to use Facebook!
>
> The irony of the matter is that Paul does have a Facebook page, and his
> profile picture was taken with the camera built into a Mac laptop, even
> though all his computing needs are perfectly served with RISC OS.
>
> Paul disparages all FB users as idiots, not himself of course, he's
> above it all and only has a FB account to observe the rest of us imbeciles
> from his lofty perch.
>
Quoting http://www.vigay.com/apple/
it is "compiled by internet entrepreneur and Mac guru Paul Vigay"
Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark
<\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A mountain climbing, cycling, skiing,
"> || _`\<,_ |__\ \> | reader in immunology, antibody engineer and
` || (_)/ (_) | \corn computer user"
Tony Moore
> In message of 16 Jun, Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> > I write as an erstwhile civil engineer, so I defer to your
> > experience of SQL, and I regret that I know nothing about Metaphor.
>
> Then why criticise my statement that Metaphor was a superior system!
Criticism was not intended - I'm sorry if you read that into my
statement that DataPower uses standard SQL, and has an excellent user
interface.
[snip]
Tony
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:b...@llamaselector.com> wrote:
> Paul Vigay <invalid-em...@invalid-domain.co.uk>:
> >
> > I've not even found a decent word processor (paid or free) on the Mac.
> > About the only readily available one is Pages, which comes with iWork08
> > and it's absolutely dire compared to OvPro. :-(
>
> Interesting. Ovation Pro costs 150GBP. iWork, including Pages, Numbers
> and Keynote (a far better piece of presentation software than Powerpoint
> and, indeed, anything available on RISC OS), costs 55GBP.
>
> I'm not going to argue whether Pages is `absolutely dire' -- I happen to
> think it's pretty good, but I'm sure you will contrive a list of bizarre
> things it can't do which render it completely worthless.
>
> There are probably a dozen different word processing/DTP packages
> for Mac OS X, but I'm sure they're all useless. And all the text
> editors too (including emacs, vim, Textmate, TextWrangler, BBEdit --
> all absolute junk). In fact, I'm pretty sure all the software for Macs
> in pretty much every category you could care to name is abysmal, and
> the RISC OS equivalents, even though they often haven't seen any real
> updates in half a decade, are still years ahead. Like Photodesk, for
> example. You can't improve on perfection.
Wrong example to choose!
Photodesk was updated in October last year and work on the next update
is progressing well:-)
Chris Evans
<URL:mailto:t...@powys.org> wrote:
> In message of 16 Jun, Chris Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > Factual inaccuraces maybe worth correcting, but you can't 'correct'
> > feelings!
>
> What about:
>
> "Stalin felt it right to execute millions of opponents to his regime"?
>
> "Hitler felt it right to have a final solution"?
>
> I think we would agree that both these feelings were morally wrong and
> in need of a little correction.
>
> Or do you really mean that such feelings should go uncorrected?
I wouldn't call it correcting a statement as you can't change what they
said, if someone says something that is not acceptable you say so and argue
your case.
Mike Clark
Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Louie <lo...@orpheusmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Now, someone tell me, other than the internet (and MP4/ film stuff),
> > which I feel we have already established as lacking points, what else
> > does RISC OS not do as well as other OSs? And just to be clear- I use
> > the Iyonix as a working computer, not as an enthusiasts focus.
>
> Printing
> Scanning
> OCR
> Music (audio) recording and editing
> Music notation
> Office suite
> Convert CDs to MP3s
> Playing streaming music online
> DVD authoring
> Webcam
> What Nero does
> Movie editing and conversion
> Competent photo and image editing
>
I'd add digital mapping and gps utilities to that list.
Indeed I now tend to integrate my digital photography with digital
mapping. I have my cameras set to UTC, I collect a tracklog of where
I've been and I use GPS Utility ( http://www.gpsu.co.uk/ ) to combine
the data sets so that you can have a time and location for a photograph
that can then be tagged to a digital map.
Tim Powys-Lybbe
> In article <50f65eb...@south-frm.demon.co.uk>, Tim Powys-Lybbe
> <URL:mailto:t...@powys.org> wrote:
> > In message of 16 Jun, Chris Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > Factual inaccuraces maybe worth correcting, but you can't 'correct'
> > > feelings!
> >
> > What about:
> >
> > "Stalin felt it right to execute millions of opponents to his regime"?
> >
> > "Hitler felt it right to have a final solution"?
> >
> > I think we would agree that both these feelings were morally wrong and
> > in need of a little correction.
> >
> > Or do you really mean that such feelings should go uncorrected?
>
> I wouldn't call it correcting a statement as you can't change what they
> said, if someone says something that is not acceptable you say so and argue
> your case.
But they can't change or correct their feelings, you say. So what is
the point in arguing with them?
To bring this to a more prosaic level, though equally serious, some
research has recently shown that some muggings that end up with the
victim being bashed beyond recognition start with some feelings of anger
or dislike by the aggressor. If nothing can be or should be done to
correct those feelings, then we are in a parlous state.
Kell Gatherer
<63fc484b-720b-49bb...@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
David Bradforth <davidbr...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Simple question :) What does RISC OS mean to you?
A filing system.
--
Kell Gatherer
kell at mighty dot me dot uk (expand)
Rob Kendrick
> Quoting http://www.vigay.com/apple/
>
> it is "compiled by internet entrepreneur and Mac guru Paul Vigay"
"If deleting anything on Mac OS X, do note that the standard Linux rm
does not ask for confirmation, as it does on other platforms" made me
giggle to myself for a good few minutes. That site's a gem of amusement.
B.
Ben Shimmin
> Ben Shimmin wrote:
>> Interesting. Ovation Pro costs 150GBP. iWork, including Pages, Numbers
>> and Keynote (a far better piece of presentation software than Powerpoint
>> and, indeed, anything available on RISC OS), costs 55GBP.
>
> Ahh, I'm not disputing that. Keynote is absolutely amazing and I'll
> agree that it's one of the best applications I have on the Mac.
> Presentations are the only thing I can do well on the Mac. :-)
I'm glad we agree about Keynote. It's worth 55 quid alone, I think.
>> I'm not going to argue whether Pages is `absolutely dire' -- I happen to
>> think it's pretty good, but I'm sure you will contrive a list of bizarre
>> things it can't do which render it completely worthless.
>
> I just find it unusable, but perhaps that's just me. I'm from the
> ClarisWorks era of the Mac and ever since they switched to AppleWorks
> and then Pages, things seem to have gone downhill. It looks quite nice,
> but when you come to do serious stuff on it, I found it was rather
> limiting, especially with (ISTR) multiple linked frames.
I find it handles linked frames reasonably well... Pages does an
impressive amount considering it costs the equivalent of 18GBP. For
many users I would say that it is both an excellent word processor and
a perfectly capable desktop publishing and layout program. Of course,
it lacks some features (auto-save is the most glaring), but it still
represents remarkable value for money.
>> There are probably a dozen different word processing/DTP packages
>> for Mac OS X, but I'm sure they're all useless. And all the text
>> editors too (including emacs, vim, Textmate, TextWrangler, BBEdit --
>> all absolute junk).
>
> Yep. They are all junk. :-) I did go through just about every text
> editor I could find on the Mac sometime ago, as I was desperately
> looking for a decent text editor so that I could do web design on the
> go. I couldn't find one at all.
Then, clearly, both your tastes in, and requirements of, a text editor
differ vastly from the majority. All those other programmers out there
who have happily been using emacs or vim for decades are clearly all
just wrong (and the ones, like me, who switched from emacs to TextMate
because they found things like the bundles to be just awesome must be
doubly wrong).
[...]
> Not quite, as Keynote is fabby - as mentioned above. iMovie is not too
> bad but IMHO went downhill after iMovie 06 was released. 08 is pretty
> poor and I've downloaded a copy of 06.
I can't comment on whether iMovie '08 is a retrograde step (some people
like it, some don't, as far as I can see), but, on the two occasions
that I've used it, it did the job fairly well. It made me wish I had
a Mac Pro rather than a MacBook, but there we go. Once again, however,
iLife represents pretty staggeringly good value for money -- you get six
applications for 55 quid this time.
> I've just downloaded a copy of Flex builder so I'll see what that's
> like, but that's going away from the original topic which was referring
> to RISC OS.
Have fun with your RIAs!
b.
--
<b...@bas.me.uk> <URL:http://bas.me.uk/>
`He certainly left me under the impression that he would have
made a wonderful solicitor.' -- Jonathan Harker on Dracula