How big is the market?
Garry
users there actually are, and what software/hardware sales are like.
We all know that this is a small market, but I don't think that in
itself prevents software development, not knowing *how* small does, as
in any business, one must reduce the number of unknowns to a minimum.
We have a very rough idea of how many Iyonixes (?) are selling, and
how many they expect to sell, but this is clearly going to be hindered
by people waiting for the Omega, we also know roughly how RISC OS 4
has sold. We hear order numbers for the Omega like 4600+ but I don't
believe for a second that this represents the number of orders they
have had. And of course, someone who bought a RiscPC very recently
must be considered a fairly active user, even if he/she does not buy
either of these machines.
This may be a contentious subject, and maybe certain developers may be
find low sales embarassing (on the contrary, sticking with the
platform despite low sales shows great commitment), but I think it's
important that we know. You never know, maybe there are *more* RISC OS
users than we think.
Comments?
Garry
Fred
bandits...@yahoo.co.uk (Garry) wrote:
> I've always been a bit curious as to how many active Acorn/RISC OS
> users there actually are,
[snip]
<Sigh> OK, I guess it's time to own up. The RISC OS user base consists of
you, me and my 'Eliza for Usenet' software.
Didn't want to tell you before 'cos I was lonely.
--
Fred Bambrough
Stuart Halliday
Fred <fr...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> In message <b5652016.03012...@posting.google.com>
> bandits...@yahoo.co.uk (Garry) wrote:
>
> > I've always been a bit curious as to how many active Acorn/RISC OS
> > users there actually are,
1500-2000 active users. ie buying stuff?
I get around 5000 people viewing my web site otherwise.
So say around 10,000 at a guessimate.
> <Sigh> OK, I guess it's time to own up. The RISC OS user base consists of
> you, me and my 'Eliza for Usenet' software.
>
> Didn't want to tell you before 'cos I was lonely.
This has got to be the USENET joke of the year!
Well done Fred. ;-))
--
Stuart Halliday
The Acorn Cybervillage
http://acorn.cybervillage.co.uk/
Support us - http://www.cafepress.com/AcornCV/
Remove 'takeoutthisbit' to reply to my mail.
Stuart Tyrrell
> In message <688bf4b...@ypical.demon.co.uk>
> Fred <fr...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
> > In message <b5652016.03012...@posting.google.com>
> > bandits...@yahoo.co.uk (Garry) wrote:
> >
> > > I've always been a bit curious as to how many active Acorn/RISC OS
> > > users there actually are,
>
> 1500-2000 active users. ie buying stuff?
>
> I get around 5000 people viewing my web site otherwise.
>
> So say around 10,000 at a guessimate.
I think these are the order of magnitude of numbers used internally by
developers / dealers.
At a recent presentation at WACG, I asked how many people had
PS2MouseMini, and about 25% of people had. There have been 2,000 units
sold over the last 20 months. Although it's a reasonably low-cost
mainstream item, I'd suggest that the audience would have a
disproportionate number of users who would buy such a gadget.
I'd estimate actual market penetration of a device like PS2MouseMini
within "active" users (albeit perhaps not high spending users) of
10-15%, perhaps with a similar number of non-spending users. Based on
15%, this makes (low) active=13K, non-active=25K, estimate high-active
users (spending more than UKP100/year) of 2-4K out of the total 13K
active users.
My margin for error is probably approaching 100% ;-)
Stuart.
Pierpaolo Scaini
stu...@stdevel.com (Stuart Tyrrell) wrote:
> At a recent presentation at WACG, I asked how many people had
> PS2MouseMini, and about 25% of people had. There have been 2,000 units
> sold over the last 20 months.
Well, I've tried to obtain several of these for over a year in the past
but, despite having supplied all details of ccard and a lot of email/faxes
of request, never obtained one. I already have my optical mice sleeping
in a drawer and supplied my customers with original Castle ones.
No explanation of why they don't want to supply them to us.
So, if PS2MouseMini sells have to be taken as a parameter for the
estimate of the user base, one have to take in account the number of
request (I know I'm not the only one) never satisfied.
This seems to be a common problem with RISC OS market: more then once I
have been in a position to start a good business with potential customers
but had to give up to the lack of support from english developers.
As a further example, this days I'm requested to put down a project for a
quite big customer who'd like to bin almost all of his 1000 PCs in favour of
light network clients and the RISC OS ones seems to be his preferred choice.
I've asked some questions to the known developers of these devices but,
despite the great numbers involved in the business, no answer arrived yet.
I think any RISC OS machine sold, of any kind, even old ones, are a step
forward the survival and the evolution of our beloved platform.
I'm trying to support RISC OS as much as I can, but the work is becoming
harder every day and we always risk to loose credibility. How can I offer
to a customer something that exists but the produces ignores who wants to
buy it? Why someone have to spend money to put advertisements on magazines
and then refuses to sell his products?
All this without telling about products that are "coming soon" that I've
already sold over a year ago and not yet delivered...
Sorry for the long and, maybe, OT mail but it is just to let all of you
out there the frustration of being a RISC OS dealer and developer overseas.
Please, all you English producer, put a ear even to the request coming
from foreign customers: maybe good business exist even outside UK.
We always pay in advance, after all.
Regards
Pierpaolo Scaini
Axes Computer Solutions
ITALY
Phil
wrote:
> > At a recent presentation at WACG, I asked how many people had
> > PS2MouseMini, and about 25% of people had. There have been 2,000 units
> > sold over the last 20 months.
> Well, I've tried to obtain several of these for over a year in the past
> but, despite having supplied all details of ccard and a lot of
> email/faxes of request, never obtained one. I already have my optical
> mice sleeping in a drawer and supplied my customers with original Castle
> ones. No explanation of why they don't want to supply them to us.
Phil: One thought (apart from the problems/restrictions of being a small
business) is that maybe the emails are not being received/detected amongst
the mass of spam:
I have potential work in Denmark, but my former Danish colleague's emails
to me, and mine to him, get 'lost' in the ether - but 3rd party checks
show the addresses are correct.
(We can only get in touch by mobile!)
Might I suggest that, in the absence of 'modern' communication success,
you revert to the old traditional (and legally binding in uk law) FAX or
snail mail.
We have frequently found that it is the 'protection systems' of IP
providers / companies which reject emails for various reasons.
Eg Argonet's do some kind of reverse lookup and this blocked emails from
my wife's work for months until her company changed their system.
(Everyone always blames someone else)
--
Phil Spiegelhalter: Ph...@fillin.co.uk
==== Technical Training for Broadcasters =====
*RE CUE Mobile DV Multi-Camera Production and Non-Linear Editing*
Pierpaolo Scaini
> In article <bab03eb9...@axes.it>, Pierpaolo Scaini <psc...@axes.it>
> wrote:
> > Well, I've tried to obtain several of these for over a year in the past
> > but, despite having supplied all details of ccard and a lot of
> > email/faxes of request, never obtained one. I already have my optical
> > mice sleeping in a drawer and supplied my customers with original Castle
> > ones. No explanation of why they don't want to supply them to us.
>
> Phil: One thought (apart from the problems/restrictions of being a small
> business) is that maybe the emails are not being received/detected amongst
> the mass of spam:
<snip>
> Might I suggest that, in the absence of 'modern' communication success,
> you revert to the old traditional (and legally binding in uk law) FAX or
> snail mail.
I agree this could be a problem, but the same appear to happen even if
I send faxes to them. Never tried by snailmail, really, not in 2003!
Anyway, I do not think the problem exposed are of "tecnical" nature, but
rather of "commercial" one - see the old Acorn behaviour!
<snip>
Anyway, thanks for your comment/suggestion
Regards
Pierpaolo.
Garry
> At a recent presentation at WACG, I asked how many people had
> PS2MouseMini, and about 25% of people had. There have been 2,000 units
> sold over the last 20 months. Although it's a reasonably low-cost
> mainstream item, I'd suggest that the audience would have a
> disproportionate number of users who would buy such a gadget.
>
> I'd estimate actual market penetration of a device like PS2MouseMini
> within "active" users (albeit perhaps not high spending users) of
> 10-15%, perhaps with a similar number of non-spending users. Based on
> 15%, this makes (low) active=13K, non-active=25K, estimate high-active
> users (spending more than UKP100/year) of 2-4K out of the total 13K
> active users.
>
> My margin for error is probably approaching 100% ;-)
>
>
>
> Stuart.
Those sales are pretty encouraging, and it's great you're open about
letting us know. Another part of the puzzle however is this: If these
users are generally home users, who are the companies that are buying
RISC OS boxes? Jack Lillingston (at Guildford show) stated that a
great deal of their sales come from outside the enthusiast market.
If we knew who they were, then developers could write apps for them,
and not just enthusiasts, companies have deeper pockets after all.
Garry
Garry
I hear that! When I was buying my 3rd RiscPC a few months back, I
contacted maybe 5 dealers, one actually got back to me. By that time
(about a week later), I had already bought a RiscPC from eBay. Now, I
can kind of understand how dealers may not be interested in selling
one manky S/H RiscPC, but to ignore enquiries about 1000 machines is
absurd! (On that note, have you tried www.precedence.co.uk?).
I would back uo what has been said above, about using more traditional
methods of communication, often dealers are one-man bands and can't
find the time or inclination to check email very often.
If this client of yours is serious about buying 1000 NCs, then I'm
quite sure Cumana, Castle, and Precedence would love to hear from you,
and would'nt mind getting a phone call.
Garry
Dave Wisnia
> Fred <fr...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> In message <b5652016.03012...@posting.google.com>
>> bandits...@yahoo.co.uk (Garry) wrote:
>>
>> > I've always been a bit curious as to how many active Acorn/RISC OS
>> > users there actually are,
>
>1500-2000 active users. ie buying stuff?
>
>I get around 5000 people viewing my web site otherwise.
>
>So say around 10,000 at a guessimate.
>
>> <Sigh> OK, I guess it's time to own up. The RISC OS user base consists of
>> you, me and my 'Eliza for Usenet' software.
>>
>> Didn't want to tell you before 'cos I was lonely.
>
>This has got to be the USENET joke of the year!
>
>Well done Fred. ;-))
>
>--
>Stuart Halliday
I've got 250 users here.
--
Dave Wisnia
Stuart Halliday
Pierpaolo Scaini <psc...@axes.it> wrote:
> Please, all you English producer, put a ear even to the request coming
> from foreign customers: maybe good business exist even outside UK.
> We always pay in advance, after all.
Hope you don't really mean just the English.
What about the rest of Britain? :-)
TIP:
You don't say 'English' if you really mean the whole of the United Kingdom
or Britain.
Britain is made up of many different countries.
Ray Dawson
Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>
wrote:
> You don't say 'English' if you really mean the whole of the United
> Kingdom or Britain.
> Britain is made up of many different countries.
All attached to England :-)
Cheers,
Ray D
--
Ray Dawson
r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk
MagRay - the audio & braille specialists
Ian Lowry
Ray Dawson <R...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <7ab779b9...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>,
> Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>
> wrote:
> > You don't say 'English' if you really mean the whole of the United
> > Kingdom or Britain.
>
> > Britain is made up of many different countries.
>
> All attached to England :-)
Not by choice!
Hwyl fawr
Ian
--
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell
Alan Wrigley
> In article <7ab779b9...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>,
> Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>
> wrote:
> > You don't say 'English' if you really mean the whole of the United
> > Kingdom or Britain.
>
> > Britain is made up of many different countries.
>
> All attached to England :-)
Since when was Northern Ireland attached to England?
Alan
--
RISC OS - you know it makes cents
Ian Lowry
Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> > > Britain is made up of many different countries.
> >
> > All attached to England :-)
>
> Since when was Northern Ireland attached to England?
>
> Alan
>
Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain.
Hwyl
Ian
--
When all else fails, read the instructions.
Michael J. Schülke
> In message <4bb9c7...@raydawson.com>
> Ray Dawson <R...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In article <7ab779b9...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>,
> > Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>
> > wrote:
> > > You don't say 'English' if you really mean the whole of the United
> > > Kingdom or Britain.
> >
> > > Britain is made up of many different countries.
> >
> > All attached to England :-)
>
> Not by choice!
>
SCNR,
Michael
--
From-address is valid, but used as spam trap. Use the reply-to address,
substituting the current year and month if necessary.
Michael J. Schülke
the *United* Kingdom of Great Britain *and* Northern Ireland?)
James Sargent
> Since when was Northern Ireland attached to England?
I wonder if Ireland is still an island, after the recent EEC directive
about such places?
James
Alan Wrigley
Ian Lowry <i...@lowrys.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <f46cd2b94b...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>
> Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> [snip]
>
>
> > > > Britain is made up of many different countries.
> > >
> > > All attached to England :-)
> >
> > Since when was Northern Ireland attached to England?
> >
> > Alan
> >
> Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain.
Er yes, you're right. My brain was in another gear this morning.
Martin Wuerthner
Michael J. Schülke <MJSch...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Alan Wrigley wrote:
> > Since when was Northern Ireland attached to England?
> >
> Since when was Northern Ireland a part of Britain? (Or: Why is it called
> the *United* Kingdom of Great Britain *and* Northern Ireland?)
Oh, no! I always thought it was safe to put "Großbritannien" (Great
Britain) as the destination country on letters to the UK. The trouble is
that the terms "United Kingdom", "UK" or its German equivalent
"Vereinigtes Königreich" are not very well known here - the person in the
post office once asked me whether this was Uganda!
So, to avoid any problems with Northern Ireland/Wales/Scotland, I used
"Großbritannien" for everyone. It seems I have to rethink this strategy.
Well, apart from Northern Ireland it seems to work OK.
Martin
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner MW Software mar...@invalidMW-software.com
remove "invalid" to reply
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthias Seifert
> In message <MPG.189b5754c...@news.t-online.de>
> Michael J. Schülke <MJSch...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Alan Wrigley wrote:
> > > Since when was Northern Ireland attached to England?
> > >
> > Since when was Northern Ireland a part of Britain? (Or: Why is it
> > called the *United* Kingdom of Great Britain *and* Northern Ireland?)
> Oh, no! I always thought it was safe to put "Großbritannien" (Great
> Britain) as the destination country on letters to the UK. The trouble is
> that the terms "United Kingdom", "UK" or its German equivalent
> "Vereinigtes Königreich" are not very well known here
Indeed. Well, except those who regularly watch the "Grand Prix de la
Chanson" maybe... ;-)
> - the person in the post office once asked me whether this was Uganda!
LOL!
> So, to avoid any problems with Northern Ireland/Wales/Scotland, I used
> "Großbritannien" for everyone. It seems I have to rethink this strategy.
> Well, apart from Northern Ireland it seems to work OK.
Well, you could use "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"
of course... given that the letter is big enough. ;-)
Or maybe "UKOGBANI"? Hmmm, but then probably even more would ask whether
that is a state in Africa... :-)
--
_ _ | Acorn RiscPC, StrongARM @ 287 MHz,
| | | _, _|__|_ |) ' _, , | 258 MB RAM, >100 GB HD, RISC OS 4.02
| | | / | | | |/\ | / | / \ | ------------------------------------
| | |_/\/|_/|_/|_/| |/|/\/|_/ \/ | http://www.software-evolutions.de
Terry Blunt
> In article <7ab779b9...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>,
> Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>
> wrote:
> > You don't say 'English' if you really mean the whole of the United
> > Kingdom or Britain.
>
> > Britain is made up of many different countries.
>
> All attached to England :-)
>
Held apart by the borders.
--
Terry Blunt <te...@langri.demon.co.uk>
The good thing about jumping in the deep end is
you are unlikely to bang your head on the bottom.
Stuart Halliday
Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
Falkland Islands?
Isle of Man, Isle of Wight, Outer Hebrides, Shetland isles, Channel
Islands, British Antarctica, Gibraltar?
United Kingdom, British Isles, Great Britain.
So many names. Any one got an idea what they each mean technically?
I guess UK means including the commonwealth countries by default?
Rosie Wilson
Seifert" <M.Se...@t-online.de> wrote:
> Or maybe "UKOGBANI"? Hmmm, but then probably even more would ask whether
> that is a state in Africa... :-)
Brilliant! ROFL. I had a real chuckle over this one.
Keith Wilson
John Cartmell
Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>
wrote:
[Snip]
> Falkland Islands?
> Isle of Man, Isle of Wight, Outer Hebrides, Shetland isles, Channel
> Islands, British Antarctica, Gibraltar?
> United Kingdom, British Isles, Great Britain.
> So many names. Any one got an idea what they each mean technically?
> I guess UK means including the commonwealth countries by default?
England is (probably and technically) the correct name for England and
Wales. But don't tell the Welsh.
Great Britain is Scotland and England (with Wales) and whilst the United
Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland no longer exists the United Kingdom of
Great Britain and Northern Ireland does.
Ireland is (possibly technically) the island of Ireland. But don't tell the
Irish north or south of the border. Republic of Ireland is the bigger bit
of that island.
When we mentioned Scotland we included most of the islands off its coast
but off England the islands are more complex.
The Isle of Man is more or less on its own but all its foreign affairs are
in the hands of the UK government. The Channel Islands are independent
under the Crown.
United Kingdom and Colonies used to be a very expansive affair but now adds
just Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands (I think) and it's worth noting
that Gibraltar is now part of one of the UK West Midlands constituencies
for European Elections (from memory - details could be wrong).
Law causes confusion because there are two national laws in Great Britain
English (including Wales) and Scottish. Northern Ireland also has different
(but essentially mostly similar) laws as England.
Britain is a loose term for someone who wants to be hazy. It's not a
political term and may include the whole of the island of
England/Wales/Scotland - or more or less. British Isles is a geographic
term meaning the whole set of islands including Ireland (but don't tell the
Irish).
Of course the British Empire (Victoria the first Empress - of India)
changed into the British Commonwealth which no longer exists. There is now
a Commonwealth of Nations (no reference to Britain) which includes ex
members of the British Commonwealth plus places like Mozambique which never
was British but liked us so much they asked to join our club.
OBEs, MBEs &c are anachronisms as awards about nothing that exists.
Historical note:
Of course all the above is historically based but you should note that
Wales has only ever been a nation for a dozen years or so a very long time
ago. Wales was finally fully incorporated into England by means of conquest
- and it was a technically Welsh King that took over so tell the Welsh to
stop grumbling. Of course that doesn't matter because Scotland was
incorporated into England/Wales after a Scottish King took over the whole
lot - and then the Germans were invited in (and that's the present lot!).
So will all those of you (Welsh/Scottish and foreign) who complain about
what the UK does but say "It's those bloody English" please go and take
your complaints elsewhere. we aren't responsible. ;-)
Next question?
--
John Cartmell jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527
Acorn Publisher magazine & http://www.acornpublisher.com
Fleur Designs (boardgames)
Philip Ludlam
<a1420cba...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid>
Stuart Halliday <stu...@stuarthalliday.takeoutthisbit.com.invalid> wrote:
>In message <7c6ee0b94b...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>
> Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <286bd3b...@ian.lowrys.demon.co.uk>
>> Ian Lowry <i...@lowrys.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > In message <f46cd2b94b...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>
>> > Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>
>wrote:
>> >
>> > [snip]
>> >
>> > > > > Britain is made up of many different countries.
>> > > >
>> > > > All attached to England :-)
>> > >
>> > > Since when was Northern Ireland attached to England?
>> > >
>> > Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain.
>>
>> Er yes, you're right. My brain was in another gear this morning.
>
>Falkland Islands?
>
>Isle of Man, Isle of Wight, Outer Hebrides, Shetland isles, Channel
>Islands, British Antarctica, Gibraltar?
>
>United Kingdom, British Isles, Great Britain.
How far do you guys want to go?
You know that part of Portsmouth (the better part :-) ) is on an island
and is surrounded by water.
Yours,
Phil L.
--
http://www.philipnet.com
Martin Dann
Philip Ludlam <ne...@philipnet.com> wrote:
> How far do you guys want to go?
> You know that part of Portsmouth (the better part :-) ) is on an island
> and is surrounded by water.
according to current EU rumors, the Isle of White is no longer an island.
Martin.
--
According to the human genome project, humans are 50-60% bananas.
Ian Lowry
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> Historical note:
> Of course all the above is historically based but you should note that
> Wales has only ever been a nation for a dozen years or so a very long time
> ago. Wales was finally fully incorporated into England by means of conquest
> - and it was a technically Welsh King that took over so tell the Welsh to
> stop grumbling. Of course that doesn't matter because Scotland was
> incorporated into England/Wales after a Scottish King took over the whole
> lot - and then the Germans were invited in (and that's the present lot!).
>
> So will all those of you (Welsh/Scottish and foreign) who complain about
> what the UK does but say "It's those bloody English" please go and take
> your complaints elsewhere. we aren't responsible. ;-)
>
> Next question?
>
Such a typically English view of history.
We are the true Britons; the English are nothing but flaming foreign
invaders!
Iechyd da i bob Cymro, Iechyd drwg i bob ...
Hwyl fawr
Ian
--
All true wisdom can be found on T-shirts
Robert Seago
<URL:mailto:i...@lowrys.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Iechyd da i bob Cymro, Iechyd drwg i bob ...
>
> Hwyl fawr
> Ian
>
I didn't say a word
Bob
Regards from : Using a : Remove the j from the address
Robert Seago : Risc PC : http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/rjseago/
--
Robert Seago
<URL:mailto:jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
<snip of GB UK etc.>
>
> So will all those of you (Welsh/Scottish and foreign) who complain about
> what the UK does but say "It's those bloody English" please go and take
> your complaints elsewhere. we aren't responsible. ;-)
>
> Next question?
>
lot who think we are the lost tribe of Mannasseh, and others the
descendants of Ashkenaz. :-)
Dave Symes
Ian Lowry <i...@lowrys.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <f46cd2b94b...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk>
> Alan Wrigley <spam...@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> wrote:
> [snip]
> > > > Britain is made up of many different countries.
> > >
> > > All attached to England :-)
> >
> > Since when was Northern Ireland attached to England?
> >
> > Alan
> >
> Northern Ireland is not part of Great Britain.
> Hwyl
> Ian
And many of us have sincere wishes it damnwell wasn't.
Dave S
--
Dave Symes
> Alan
Purse strings attachment.
For all the years Mainland UK taxpayers have been leeched upon by the open
lunatic asylum called Northern Ireland to keep the inmates apart.
Grumpy
--
Stephen Courtney
Martin Dann <Mar...@f451.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <1f0212ba...@philipnet.com>
> Philip Ludlam <ne...@philipnet.com> wrote:
> > How far do you guys want to go? You know that part of Portsmouth
> > (the better part :-) ) is on an island and is surrounded by water.
> according to current EU rumors, the Isle of White is no longer an
^^^^^ - Wight!
> island.
There are times when I wish that were the case - I've just been
informed that my replacement monitor won't be returned until next
wednesday (but the couriers didn't tell the monitor people - who
asked for yesterday - Friday) due to it being a long way away. I've a
suspicion that the monitor is only coming from Poole anyway :|
Stephen
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Annraoi
I could verify it by leaving my house and going to the coast, then
proceeding 3,000 miles round the Irish coastline - trouble with that
(knowing the EEC) is they'd probably change the definition of what an
island is and I'd be back to square one !!!!
Regards
Annraoi
Mark Rowan
Well of course you'd be back to square one if you went round the
coastline. It's an island! :-)
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Mech
Robert Seago <rse...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <4bba133...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell
> <URL:mailto:jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> <snip of GB UK etc.>
> > So will all those of you (Welsh/Scottish and foreign) who complain about
> > what the UK does but say "It's those bloody English" please go and take
> > your complaints elsewhere. we aren't responsible. ;-)
> > Next question?
> Can you tell us where we <Brits> came from. I have heard at least one
> lot who think we are the lost tribe of Mannasseh, and others the
> descendants of Ashkenaz. :-)
Well I don't think I properly know the answer, but I don't think it
has anything to do with Isrealites.
This is all as I understand it, and probably simplistic, or quite
possibly completely wrong:
The earliest known historical (as opposed to prehistoric) inhabitants
of the British Isles were the Celts. Britain is named after Britan,
a Celtic cheiftain. His people spoke 'Briton', which now survives
only as Breton and possibly Cornish Gaelic (if that is still spoken).
There were other Gaelic languages too, of course, which survive today
as Welsh, Manx and Irish gaelic.
Then the Romans came and converted them all to christianity.
Then when the romans left, the Britons fell under attack from Celts
from the north: Scots and Picts. They made a deal with the Germanic
norse tribes from across the North Sea (Saxons, Angles, Jutes) to
protect them, but the Saxons etc allied with the Picts instead and
drove the Celts out of most of England and into Wales and the West
Country. Some fled to Gaul (Brittany!). Some ended up in Ireland,
converting it to christainity.
England is named after the Angles, and their language eventually
became English. They weren't christian, but the christian Celts
didn't convert them, missionaries of the Catholic church did,
eventually.
Then Danes/Vikings invaded and settled in Scotland and the
north-eastern half of England. King Alfred then reunited
England and apart from the Normans, that's pretty much all of
relevance AFAIK.
So... If you draw a diagonal line across England (approximately
through Manchester, Birmingham and London), anyone whose ancestors
came from north of the line are likely to have Viking blood, south
of the line are Anglo-Saxon except for Wales and the South West
which might still have some Celt in them. That's my summary.
Cheers,
Dan.
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