Computer Trade Show Exhibitor

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Ian Stocks

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May 4, 2006, 11:00:12 AM5/4/06
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Is this anyone we know :-

http://www.ctshow.co.uk/cgi-events/exview.pl?exhibition_id=91&exbtr_id=6424

The Logo looks familiar.

Ian.


Paul

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May 4, 2006, 11:11:16 AM5/4/06
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On Thu, 2006-05-04 at 16:00 +0100, Ian Stocks wrote:

> The Logo looks familiar.

Click on it and be scared :-(

TTFN

Paul
--
"Logic, my dear Zoe, is merely the ability to be wrong with authority" -
Dr Who

Ian Stocks

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May 4, 2006, 11:14:07 AM5/4/06
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"Paul" <pa...@all-the-johnsons.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1146755475.1...@mrwibble.mrwobble...

> On Thu, 2006-05-04 at 16:00 +0100, Ian Stocks wrote:
>
>> The Logo looks familiar.
>
> Click on it and be scared :-(

The link on the CT show web site is broken I guess it should be :-

http://www.acorncomputer.co.uk/

Which is suprisingly short on details.

Ian.


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druck

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May 4, 2006, 12:54:23 PM5/4/06
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On 4 May 2006 "Ian Stocks" <nos...@testbox2.co.uk> wrote:
> Is this anyone we know :-
>
> http://www.ctshow.co.uk/cgi-events/exview.pl?exhibition_id=91&exbtr_id=6424

Its a f***ing disgrace. The Acorn trademarks have lapsed and now some bunch
of schisters are trading on Acorn's good name, to flog some cheap and nasty
Windows notebooks. We should turn up at this show and tear the cluprits limb
from limb.

---druck

--
The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/
The 32bit Conversions Page - http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/druck/

John Cartmell

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May 4, 2006, 1:15:48 PM5/4/06
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In article <4e21d49bd9u...@vigay.com>,
Paul Vigay <usenet...@vigay.com> wrote:
> In article <4e21cc3...@orpheusmail.co.uk>,
> Dave Stratford <da...@orpheusmail.co.uk> wrote:

> > Interesting. Assuming the name is actually correct then this makes
> > interesting reading as well :

> > http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/bbfa30fd79c546a8cb53686571981704/compdetails

> I can't actually access the Companies House database at the moment, but
> I'll check it in the morning, and I shall be reporting them for fraud if
> they're trying to pass themselves off as Acorn of the 80's and 90's. That's
> false advertising, fraudlent claims and trying to pass yourself off as
> someone else.

> I may also phone the exhibition organisers in the morning too.

Done so.
Shahid Sultan 'UK Operations Director of GlobalComm/Acorn Computers Ltd' has
reportedly bought out Acorn Computers Ltd and is relaunching the company.
The organisers seem to have little more than that.

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

David S Lawson

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May 4, 2006, 2:12:31 PM5/4/06
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Theee is a computer shop in Redditch that trades under the name of
Acorn but I've not had a look to see what they sell.

--
Dave Lawson

Bryn Evans

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May 4, 2006, 4:06:17 PM5/4/06
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In a mad moment - druck mumbled :

> On 4 May 2006 "Ian Stocks" <nos...@testbox2.co.uk> wrote:
>> Is this anyone we know :-
>>
>> http://www.ctshow.co.uk/cgi-events/exview.pl?exhibition_id=91&exbtr_id=6424
>
> Its a f***ing disgrace. The Acorn trademarks have lapsed and now some bunch
> of schisters are trading on Acorn's good name, to flog some cheap and nasty
> Windows notebooks. We should turn up at this show and tear the cluprits limb
> from limb.
>

NO! Turn up with few Beeb/Arc programs on a floppy, challenge them to
demonstrate them, then get the trading standards on to them for
miss-representation.

--
|) [
|)ryn [vans mail to - br...@bryork.com

http://www.bryork.com


Adam

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May 4, 2006, 5:05:04 PM5/4/06
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In message <4e21d6c...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell wrote:

> In article <4e21d49bd9u...@vigay.com>,
> Paul Vigay <usenet...@vigay.com> wrote:
> > In article <4e21cc3...@orpheusmail.co.uk>,
> > Dave Stratford <da...@orpheusmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > Interesting. Assuming the name is actually correct then this makes
> > > interesting reading as well :
>
> > > http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/bbfa30fd79c546a8cb53686571981704/compdetails
>
> > I can't actually access the Companies House database at the moment, but
> > I'll check it in the morning, and I shall be reporting them for fraud
> > if they're trying to pass themselves off as Acorn of the 80's and 90's.
> > That's false advertising, fraudlent claims and trying to pass yourself
> > off as someone else.
>
> > I may also phone the exhibition organisers in the morning too.
>
> Done so.

Um, what's the big deal? If some half-bit (geddit?) start-up want's to try
and play on an old trademark, fair play to them for imagination. (I can't
see it'll help them mind - the only people who'll recognise it will just be
confused!)

Adam

--
Adam Richardson Carpe Diem
http://www.snowstone.org.uk/riscos/

Adam

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May 4, 2006, 5:06:05 PM5/4/06
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In message <fdd8d421...@druck.freeuk.net>, druck wrote:

> On 4 May 2006 "Ian Stocks" <nos...@testbox2.co.uk> wrote:
> > Is this anyone we know :-
> >
> > http://www.ctshow.co.uk/cgi-events/exview.pl?exhibition_id=91&exbtr_id=6424
>
> Its a f***ing disgrace. The Acorn trademarks have lapsed and now some
> bunch of schisters are trading on Acorn's good name, to flog some cheap
> and nasty Windows notebooks. We should turn up at this show and tear the
> cluprits limb from limb.

Sheesh! Get over it. Acorn are long dead and buried. The sooner the name is
forgotten, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

druck

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May 4, 2006, 5:21:15 PM5/4/06
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On 4 May 2006 Adam <ne...@snowstone.org.uk> wrote:
> In message <fdd8d421...@druck.freeuk.net>, druck wrote:
>> On 4 May 2006 "Ian Stocks" <nos...@testbox2.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Is this anyone we know :-
>>>
>>> http://www.ctshow.co.uk/cgi-events/exview.pl?exhibition_id=91&exbtr_id=6424
>>
>> Its a f***ing disgrace. The Acorn trademarks have lapsed and now some
>> bunch of schisters are trading on Acorn's good name, to flog some cheap
>> and nasty Windows notebooks. We should turn up at this show and tear the
>> cluprits limb from limb.
>
> Sheesh! Get over it. Acorn are long dead and buried. The sooner the name is
> forgotten, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

So why are you supporting fraudulent traders attempting to profit from it?

John Cartmell

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May 4, 2006, 5:41:22 PM5/4/06
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In article <23cceb21...@snowstone.org.uk>,

> > Done so.

It's always as well to keep a sharp eye on anyone who might turn out to be
predatory. Fair play is *not* what is around if someone with no connection to
Acorn Computers is pretending to have decades of Acorn Computers experience
behind them.

Jason Tribbeck

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May 4, 2006, 6:26:40 PM5/4/06
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Adam wrote:

> Um, what's the big deal? If some half-bit (geddit?) start-up want's to try
> and play on an old trademark, fair play to them for imagination. (I can't
> see it'll help them mind - the only people who'll recognise it will just be
> confused!)

I'd love to call them and ask for a RiscPC, or claim you've got a 10
year warranty on something that's just died.

If everyone here does that once, they won't be terribly impressed with
their choice of name...

btw - it's been discussed on TIB:

http://www.iconbar.com/forums/viewthread.php?threadid=7546
--
Jason Tribbeck

newsm...@tribbeck.com - 20K download limit - anything larger won't
be received.

Adam

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May 4, 2006, 7:00:17 PM5/4/06
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In message <445a7fa0$0$8344$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk>, Jason Tribbeck wrote:

> Adam wrote:
>
> > Um, what's the big deal? If some half-bit (geddit?) start-up want's to
> > try and play on an old trademark, fair play to them for imagination. (I
> > can't see it'll help them mind - the only people who'll recognise it
> > will just be confused!)
>

> I'd love to call ...[and]... claim you've got a 10

> year warranty on something that's just died.

Heh heh, good plan! :)

matthew....@gmail.com

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May 5, 2006, 2:44:12 AM5/5/06
to
druck wrote:
> On 4 May 2006 "Ian Stocks" <nos...@testbox2.co.uk> wrote:
> > Is this anyone we know :-
> >
> > http://www.ctshow.co.uk/cgi-events/exview.pl?exhibition_id=91&exbtr_id=6424
>
> Its a f***ing disgrace. The Acorn trademarks have lapsed and now some bunch
> of schisters are trading on Acorn's good name, to flog some cheap and nasty
> Windows notebooks. We should turn up at this show and tear the cluprits limb
> from limb.
>
> ---druck
>

As far as I can tell from the UK Patent Office's Trademark Database,
the "nut" logo is up for renewal in February next year, and the
trademark of "Acorn" on computer reference manuals is due for renewal
in 2009.

--
Matthew.

David Holden

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May 5, 2006, 5:21:34 AM5/5/06
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On 5-May-2006, "matthew....@gmail.com" <matthew....@gmail.com>
wrote:

> As far as I can tell from the UK Patent Office's Trademark Database,
> the "nut" logo is up for renewal in February next year, and the
> trademark of "Acorn" on computer reference manuals is due for renewal
> in 2009.

The nut logo is nothing to do with Acorn Computers. If you mean the green
"acorn" that the company used that can't be registered. You will notice that
the new Nottingham company uses a different font for their name so there's
no conflict with the old Acorn trademark even if it has been registered.

The "misrepresentation" isn't the name or the logo it's the attempt to imply
that they're a continuation of the old company (unless, of course, they
are). However, it's possible that this link could have been made by the show
organisers, so let's not condemn then too soon. (Oops, silly me, this is
c.s.a.)

--
David Holden - APDL - <http://www.apdl.co.uk>

Chris Joseph

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May 5, 2006, 5:51:54 AM5/5/06
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Adam <ne...@snowstone.org.uk> wrote:
>
>Um, what's the big deal? If some half-bit (geddit?) start-up want's to try
>and play on an old trademark, fair play to them for imagination. (I can't

Except that the trademark belongs to someone else (currently Castle, I
believe), which makes it actually quite serious criminal fraud. Even
if Castle no longer (for whatever reason) own the old Acorn
trademarks, the newcomer still makes claims to be associated with the
'old' Acorn computers which appear to be completely unfounded. So
there's *still* passing off and fraud; probably a fairly clear case of
false advertising as well, if you want to open it up to relatively
minor charges.

Chris.

Chris Hall

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May 5, 2006, 5:59:34 AM5/5/06
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In message <114675564...@despina.uk.clara.net>
"Ian Stocks" <nos...@testbox2.co.uk> wrote:

Try adding an s:
http://www.acorncomputers.co.uk

--
Chris Hall <ch...@svrsig.org>

David Holden

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May 5, 2006, 6:04:17 AM5/5/06
to

Adam <ne...@snowstone.org.uk> wrote:
>
>Um, what's the big deal? If some half-bit (geddit?) start-up want's to try
>and play on an old trademark, fair play to them for imagination. (I can't

Except that the trademark belongs to someone else (currently Castle, I
believe), which makes it actually quite serious criminal fraud.

No, it doesn't, and what is shown on the website is *not* the "old" Acorn
Computers trademark anyway.

Message has been deleted

John Cartmell

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May 5, 2006, 6:34:28 AM5/5/06
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In article <4c0m9aF...@individual.net>,
David Holden <black...@apdl.co.uk> wrote:

> Adam <ne...@snowstone.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> >Um, what's the big deal? If some half-bit (geddit?) start-up want's to try
> >and play on an old trademark, fair play to them for imagination. (I can't

> Except that the trademark belongs to someone else (currently Castle, I
> believe), which makes it actually quite serious criminal fraud.

> No, it doesn't, and what is shown on the website is *not* the "old" Acorn
> Computers trademark anyway.

The problem is obviously the exhibition website that makes a clear link to
Acorn Computers of the 80s and 90s.

Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted

Adam

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May 5, 2006, 7:41:07 AM5/5/06
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John Cartmell

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May 5, 2006, 7:13:41 AM5/5/06
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In article <4e2237d50bu...@vigay.com>,
Paul Vigay <usenet...@vigay.com> wrote:
> In article <ocA*oG...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,

> Chris Joseph <chr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > Except that the trademark belongs to someone else (currently Castle, I
> > believe), which makes it actually quite serious criminal fraud. Even if
> > Castle no longer (for whatever reason) own the old Acorn trademarks, the
> > newcomer still makes claims to be associated with the 'old' Acorn
> > computers which appear to be completely unfounded. So there's *still*
> > passing off and fraud; probably a fairly clear case of false advertising
> > as well, if you want to open it up to relatively minor charges.

> Indeed. I would urge people to complain both to the Computer Trade Show as
> well as Companies House - details in my previous posting.

Preferably without making any unwarranted assumptions. It's always difficult
to continue with a (justified) complaint when you have made errors (even if
incidental) in that complaint.

Chris Evans

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May 5, 2006, 8:26:22 AM5/5/06
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In article <1146811452.8...@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,

From companies house web site I see that the original Acorn Computers Ltd is
still an active company, now called Cabot 2 Ltd

Company No. 01403810

Date of Incorporation: 05/12/1978
name at time of incorporation:
Original name ACORN COMPUTERS LIMITED
then renamed to ELEMENT 14 LIMITED
then CABOT 2 LIMITED

Cabot2 appears to be still 'trading' with a return submitted in September
last year!
Nature of Business (SIC(03)): 7487 - Other business activities


Another company

Company No. 02926030
Date of Incorporation: 05/05/1994
started out called ACKRACK LAW LIMITED
then renamed to ONLINE MEDIA LIMITED
then ELEMENT 14 LIMITED
then ACORN COMPUTERS LIMITED
then CABOT 7 LIMITED

and was dissolved 05/09/2000

In jan 1999 the two companies swapped names between Element 14 and Acorn
Computers

n.b. MSDW are based in Cabot Square


Chris Evans

--
CJE Micro's / 4D 'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222 Fax: 01903 523679
ch...@cjemicros.co.uk http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

Chris Evans

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May 5, 2006, 7:42:01 AM5/5/06
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In article <ocA*oG...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Chris Joseph
<URL:mailto:chr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Adam <ne...@snowstone.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> >Um, what's the big deal? If some half-bit (geddit?) start-up want's to try
> >and play on an old trademark, fair play to them for imagination. (I can't
>
> Except that the trademark belongs to someone else (currently Castle, I
> believe),

I think Castle only had a licence to use the name, I suspect the ownership
lies with MSDW Holdings who bought out Acorn Computers Ltd.
I doubt MSDW will know about the infringment or be bothered to pursue the
new company if they did.

> which makes it actually quite serious criminal fraud. Even
> if Castle no longer (for whatever reason) own the old Acorn
> trademarks, the newcomer still makes claims to be associated with the
> 'old' Acorn computers which appear to be completely unfounded. So
> there's *still* passing off and fraud; probably a fairly clear case of
> false advertising as well, if you want to open it up to relatively
> minor charges.
>
> Chris.
>

diodesign

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May 5, 2006, 8:48:18 AM5/5/06
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Hi,

I got the same press release too.. More details soon.

Chris / drobe.co.uk

diodesign

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May 5, 2006, 8:54:11 AM5/5/06
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Hi,

Chris Evans wrote:
> In article <ocA*oG...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Chris Joseph
> <URL:mailto:chr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > Adam <ne...@snowstone.org.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > >Um, what's the big deal? If some half-bit (geddit?) start-up want's to try
> > >and play on an old trademark, fair play to them for imagination. (I can't
> >
> > Except that the trademark belongs to someone else (currently Castle, I
> > believe),
>
> I think Castle only had a licence to use the name, I suspect the ownership
> lies with MSDW Holdings who bought out Acorn Computers Ltd.
> I doubt MSDW will know about the infringment or be bothered to pursue the
> new company if they did.

A quick check with the UK patent office shows that Element-14 own the
Acorn name and nut log as registered trademarks. The trademarks are
both valid, the name up to 2009 and the nut to 2007. Broadcom now own
E-14.

Castle were allowed to continue using the Acorn brand in order to
resell RiscPCs in the post-Acorn breakup. See:

http://web.archive.org/web/19990203003924/www.castle-technology.co.uk/ctl.html

Chris / drobe.co.uk

John Cartmell

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May 5, 2006, 8:59:38 AM5/5/06
to
In article <ant05110...@client.cjemicros.co.uk>,

Chris Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ocA*oG...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Chris Joseph
> <URL:mailto:chr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > Adam <ne...@snowstone.org.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > >Um, what's the big deal? If some half-bit (geddit?) start-up want's to try
> > >and play on an old trademark, fair play to them for imagination. (I can't
> >
> > Except that the trademark belongs to someone else (currently Castle, I
> > believe),

> I think Castle only had a licence to use the name, I suspect the ownership
> lies with MSDW Holdings who bought out Acorn Computers Ltd.
> I doubt MSDW will know about the infringment or be bothered to pursue the
> new company if they did.

Anyone read The Register - hardware section.

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/05/acorn_computers_reborn/

Paul

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May 5, 2006, 10:37:13 AM5/5/06
to
On Thu, 2006-05-04 at 22:21 +0100, druck wrote:

> On 4 May 2006 Adam <ne...@snowstone.org.uk> wrote:

> > Sheesh! Get over it. Acorn are long dead and buried. The sooner the name is
> > forgotten, the better, as far as I'm concerned.
>
> So why are you supporting fraudulent traders attempting to profit from it?

I reckon it's Microdigital trying to make a comeback...

<ducks>

TTFN

Paul
--
"Logic, my dear Zoe, is merely the ability to be wrong with authority" -
Dr Who

Ray Dawson

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May 5, 2006, 10:51:23 AM5/5/06
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"Adam" <ne...@snowstone.org.uk> wrote:

Are those Solo computers anything to do with Explan?

Ray D

Ray Dawson

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May 5, 2006, 10:53:37 AM5/5/06
to
druck <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:

>
> > Sheesh! Get over it. Acorn are long dead and buried. The sooner the
> > name is forgotten, the better, as far as I'm concerned.
>
> So why are you supporting fraudulent traders attempting to profit from
> it?
>

I thought Castle were using the Acorn name on their computers?

Ray D

VinceH

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May 5, 2006, 1:35:13 PM5/5/06
to
On 5 May 2006, David Holden wrote:

> No, it doesn't, and what is shown on the website is *not* the
> "old" Acorn Computers trademark anyway.

However, look at the title bar of the web page at
http://www.acorncomputer.co.uk

According to http://www.patent.gov.uk/tm/howtoapply/faq.htm

----8<----
Am I breaking the law by using "TM" on my trade mark?
No, as this does not indicate that your trade mark is actually
registered, only that it is being used in a trade mark sense. You
would only be breaking the law (Section 95 of the Trade Marks Act
1994) if you used the registered symbol ® or the abbreviation
"RTM".
----8<----

Also according to the Patents Office website:

http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=1510669

"Acorn" (in this context) is owned by E14.

Whether Acorn Computers Ltd is breaking the law in this context
remains unclear, though. It depends on a number of things that
none of us know and, in the best tradition of usenet, can only
speculate and jump to conclusions about.

--
VinceH - http://www.softrock.co.uk/info/vinceh.html

John Cartmell

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May 5, 2006, 2:00:39 PM5/5/06
to
In article <gemini.iyszio0...@softrock.co.uk>,

VinceH <sp...@softrock.co.uk> wrote:
> "Acorn" (in this context) is owned by E14.

Acorn Computers Ltd (2006 version) say they will allow their resellers to
promote themselves as "Acorn Authorised". So later this year you could
reasonably ask any of the "Acorn Authorised" resellers to supply you with an
Iyonix, A9, Virtual RiscPC or copy of Select 4 - and be rightfully aggrieved
if they try to sell you a Windows laptop instead.

On reflection I can think of one or two companies who might already consider
themselves to be "Acorn Authorised" without waiting for the imprimatur of
Acorn Computers Ltd (2006).

Vincent Vega

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May 5, 2006, 2:18:02 PM5/5/06
to

At a guess, it's probably a reference to the fact that there are Intel
"Core Solo" chips in them.

Stefan Wuerthner

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May 5, 2006, 3:31:35 PM5/5/06
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In message <114675481...@despina.uk.clara.net>
"Ian Stocks" <nos...@testbox2.co.uk> wrote:

> Is this anyone we know :-
>
> http://www.ctshow.co.uk/cgi-events/exview.pl?exhibition_id=91&exbtr_id=6424
>
> The Logo looks familiar.
>

> Ian.
>
>

Even Engadget picked up the story (including discussion):

http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/05/acorn-computers-to-be-reborn-as-laptop-maker/


--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stefan Wuerthner web http://wuerthner.dyndns.org
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

druck

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May 5, 2006, 9:17:27 PM5/5/06
to
On 5 May 2006 Paul Vigay <usenet...@vigay.com> wrote:
> In article <4e21cc3...@orpheusmail.co.uk>,
> Dave Stratford <da...@orpheusmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Interesting. Assuming the name is actually correct then this makes
>> interesting reading as well :
>
>> http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/bbfa30fd79c546a8cb53686571981704/compdetails
>
> I've just spoken to Companies House, reporting them for fraudulently trying
> to pass themselves off as someone else and had a very informative
> conversation with the person on the phone. They're going to launch an
> investigation

Well done Paul.

> I also phoned Anthony Hull at the Computer Trade Show and explained the
> situation to him, so he's going to discuss the matter with his superiors
> and decide what action to take (after all, they might not want 1000 angry
> Acorn users turning up to ask awkward questions.....;-))

And well done again.

Perhaps you might also want to drop a line to Chris and Herman to see what
they think of the situation. Acorn computers selling Windows notebooks - they
would be spinning in their graves if they weren't still alive.

---druck

--
The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/
The 32bit Conversions Page - http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/druck/

druck

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May 5, 2006, 9:13:11 PM5/5/06
to

I've already blasted the register for that one.

VinceH

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May 6, 2006, 6:43:01 AM5/6/06
to
On 5 May 2006, John Cartmell wrote:
> In article <gemini.iyszio0...@softrock.co.uk>,
> VinceH <sp...@softrock.co.uk> wrote:

> > "Acorn" (in this context) is owned by E14.

(Which was linked to the relevant page on the UK Patent office
website)

As an afterthought[1], I should clarify that refers to printed
matter and I'm taking the view that a web page falls under that,
but others might disagree. It's possible that whoever put the page
up at http://www.acorncomputer.co.uk also takes that view, hence
the use of the ® - but it's also possible that they've registered
the word as a trademark elsewhere, or simply that they've seen
(old) Acorn's printed matter, including that symbol, and therefore
decided to use it themselves on that page. There are probably
other possibilities as well.

> Acorn Computers Ltd (2006 version) say they will allow their
> resellers to promote themselves as "Acorn Authorised". So later
> this year you could reasonably ask any of the "Acorn Authorised"
> resellers to supply you with an Iyonix, A9, Virtual RiscPC or
> copy of Select 4 - and be rightfully aggrieved if they try to
> sell you a Windows laptop instead.

I'm trying to work out how that follows from anything in the post
to which you replied - and more to the point to the bit you
actually quoted - other than being a comment on this new Acorn.

[...]

george

unread,
May 6, 2006, 9:37:49 AM5/6/06
to
In message <4fbd8622...@druck.freeuk.net>
druck <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:

> On 5 May 2006 Paul Vigay <usenet...@vigay.com> wrote:
>> In article <4e21cc3...@orpheusmail.co.uk>,
>> Dave Stratford <da...@orpheusmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Interesting. Assuming the name is actually correct then this makes
>>> interesting reading as well :
>>
>>> http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/bbfa30fd79c546a8cb53686571981704/com
>>> pdetails
>>
>> I've just spoken to Companies House, reporting them for fraudulently trying
>> to pass themselves off as someone else and had a very informative
>> conversation with the person on the phone. They're going to launch an
>> investigation
>
> Well done Paul.
>
>> I also phoned Anthony Hull at the Computer Trade Show and explained the
>> situation to him, so he's going to discuss the matter with his superiors
>> and decide what action to take (after all, they might not want 1000 angry
>> Acorn users turning up to ask awkward questions.....;-))
>
> And well done again.
>
> Perhaps you might also want to drop a line to Chris and Herman to see what
> they think of the situation. Acorn computers selling Windows notebooks - they
> would be spinning in their graves if they weren't still alive.
>
> ---druck
>

Interesting marketing opportunity for R-Comp and STD: sell 'Acorn'
laptops with VirtualAcorn installed :-o

Makes you wonder if the RO hardware companies didn't miss a trick by
not keeping the Acorn branding though.

George

--

John Cartmell

unread,
May 6, 2006, 8:08:36 AM5/6/06
to
In article <gemini.iyub3q0...@softrock.co.uk>,

I was illustrating the mind-boggling confusion possible. I'd just read the PR
statement from the new company where they refer to the "Acorn and Acorn logo
being registered trademarks of Acorn Computers Ltd" prompting the questions:
which Acorn?
which Acorn logo?
which Acorn Computers Ltd?

and the possibility of seeing their statement alongside the identical
statement (but with a quite different meaning) on a printed document from the
1980s.

"Acorn" is owned by Element 14? Which Acorn?

Muddy waters... :-(

John Cartmell

unread,
May 6, 2006, 1:44:42 PM5/6/06
to
In article <ee85ca22...@tiscali.co.uk>,

george <george.g...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> Makes you wonder if the RO hardware companies didn't miss a trick by
> not keeping the Acorn branding though.

They would have been called fraudsters. Possibly by some of the same people
saying the current owners of ACL are OK guys (whoever they are). ;-(

Grahame Parish

unread,
May 6, 2006, 2:04:30 PM5/6/06
to
In article <9a598622...@druck.freeuk.net>, druck

> I've already blasted the register for that one.

Is there a case for Trading Standards or the Advertising Standards people
to get involved in this?

Cheers,
Grahame.

--
Grahame Parish
Aylesbury, Bucks. HP19 (UK)
maillistDOTparishATmillersHYPHENwayDOTnet

Message has been deleted

druck

unread,
May 6, 2006, 3:03:34 PM5/6/06
to
On 6 May 2006 Grahame Parish <spam...@millers-way.net> wrote:

> In article <9a598622...@druck.freeuk.net>, druck
> <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> > On 5 May 2006 "Adam" <ne...@snowstone.org.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > Oh, look:
> > > http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/05/acorn_computers_reborn/
>
> > I've already blasted the register for that one.
>
> Is there a case for Trading Standards or the Advertising Standards people
> to get involved in this?

Yes.

John Cartmell

unread,
May 6, 2006, 3:19:15 PM5/6/06
to
In article <4e22e2e34...@millers-way.net>,

Grahame Parish <spam...@millers-way.net> wrote:
> In article <9a598622...@druck.freeuk.net>, druck
> <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> > On 5 May 2006 "Adam" <ne...@snowstone.org.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > Oh, look:
> > > http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/05/acorn_computers_reborn/

> > I've already blasted the register for that one.

> Is there a case for Trading Standards or the Advertising Standards people
> to get involved in this?

Who's complaining?

John Cartmell

unread,
May 6, 2006, 3:26:42 PM5/6/06
to
In article <4e22e3d632u...@vigay.com>,
Paul Vigay <usenet...@vigay.com> wrote:
> As an additional follow up (which I shall be escalating on Monday), it
> looks like the 'new' Acorn Computers Ltd are breaking section 95 of the
> Trade Marks Act 1994 because as far as my investigations go, they have not
> formally registered "Acorn" as a trademark, yet they are using the (R)
> symbol to denote a registered trademark on their website. I shall be
> contacting the patent office to discuss this on Monday.

You might want their Press Release NB I would *strongly* advise anyone making
use of this information to make any form of complaint to make sure that a
complaint is appropriate and is not oversold. Doing so damages your argument
and that of others. I have no reason to say that the company has taken any
illegal action no matter how affronted some people might be. Apologies for the
character errors that occurred during translation from the Word original:

Acorn Computers re-launches with new notebook range at Computer Trade Show
2006, NEC, Birmingham.

28 April 2006, Nottingham, England
This years’ Computer Trade Show at NEC Birmingham on 10th & 11th May sees the
return of Acorn Computers – marking the beginning of a new era in British
computing and re-introducing a popular brand to the IT community.

Still synonymous with personal computers in the minds of the UK public, the
return of the iconic brand at the show will give the IT trade and media an
exclusive preview of the company's new product line. Exhibitors and visitors
to the show will be able to see Acorn's updated brand identity and meet
members of the Channel Marketing and Operations teams.

The new range at launch consists of four models – 12.1” Solo Note, 14.1” Solo
Book, 15.4” Desk Note and 17” Desk Book. All models have WXGA Widescreens with
Acorn Vybrio Technology; a glass like finish for vibrancy and brightness. The
new Acorn range runs Microsoft Windows XP and comes with Zone Alarm from Zone
Labs as well as Sun's Star Office.

The range has been specifically designed to cater for users across the whole
UK market, which Acorn is grouping as General Public Audience, Education &
Academia, SME & SoHo business and Large Enterprise & Public Sector. In keeping
with the Computer Trade Show focus, Acorn will be actively recruiting
resellers to carry the range in these markets. Resellers chosen to work with
Acorn will be able to promote themselves as "Acorn Authorised” and benefit
from the high public attraction that is expected over the coming months.

Synonymous within the education audience in the 1980s and 1990s, Acorn's new
product range will appeal to those loyal to the brand as well as attract new
users. The return of Acorn Computers will not doubt strike a chord with a
generation who grew up learning on an Acorn Computer; rekindling fond memories
of their first experiences with technology, whilst providing new high
specification notebooks and competitive pricing to continue this evolution.

The Acorn Computers web site is due to launch imminently at
http://www.acorncomputer.co.uk where more information can be found. A further
programme of trade and consumer marketing is currently in planning and
production. More details of the brand and product range will be released
following the show.

Notes to the editor:
Acorn Computers would like to invite journalists, editors and researchers to
contact PR Agency Persona Creative to arrange product reviews, interviews and
other editorial content. Media releases will also be distributed regularly
through this office.
About Acorn Computers
As one of the UK’s most recognisable and fondly remembered IT brands, Acorn
Computers Limited has re-launched in 2006 as a Notebook PC vendor, supplying
to home users, academic establishments, and businesses of all sizes. Working
closely with industry leaders Intel, AMD, Nvidia, ATI Technologies and
Microsoft, Acorn notebooks are once again available as high specification and
innovative products. Acorn Computers are available through a growing network
of distributors and resellers. See http://www.acorncomputer.co.uk for more
information.

Acorn and the Acorn logo are registered trademarks of Acorn Computers Limited.
Microsoft and Windows are registered trademarks of Microsoft Corporation.
Intel and Pentium are registered trademarks of Intel Corporation. Other
trademarks, registered trademarks and/or service marks, indicated or
otherwise, are the properties of their respective owners.

For all media enquiries contact publicists Persona Creative in the first
instance or Acorn Computers for further information.

Vivienne Pearsons

Marketing & PR Manager
Persona Creative Limited
5 King Edward Court
King Edward Street
Nottingham
NG1 1EW

http://www.personacreative.com

me...@personacreative.com

T: +44 (0) 115 948 4454
F: +44 (0) 115 833 5456
Shahid Sultan

UK Operations Director
Acorn Computers Limited
Acorn House
Unit 8 Vision Business Centre
Firth Way
Nottingham
NG6 8GF

http://www.acorncomputer.co.uk

in...@acorncomputer.co.uk

T: +44 (0) 870 750 6060
F: +44 (0) 871 242 3427

Ray Dawson

unread,
May 6, 2006, 5:57:56 PM5/6/06
to
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Apologies for the character errors that occurred during translation from
> the Word original:
>

But I thought that RISC OS is perfectly capable of reading and writing
Word and other files.

At least it is when you want to make that point ;-)

Ray D

John Cartmell

unread,
May 6, 2006, 7:15:04 PM5/6/06
to
In article <gemini.iyv6ck0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,

Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> > Apologies for the character errors that occurred during translation from
> > the Word original:
> >
> But I thought that RISC OS is perfectly capable of reading and writing
> Word and other files.

It is. But the copy I got was a touch mangled. For you I could have spent time
and demangled it - but then I decided it wasn't worth it.

John Campbell Rees

unread,
May 6, 2006, 8:59:20 PM5/6/06
to
During the course of this discussion, Paul Vigay
<usenet...@vigay.com>,
in message <4e2237d50bu...@vigay.com> wrote:

> Indeed. I would urge people to complain both to the Computer Trade Show as
> well as Companies House - details in my previous posting.
>
Wouldn't it be prudent to wait a few days until 10th May, to find out
exactly what these people's plans are. Who know, they might be
planning on licensing one of the current flavours of RISC OS for some
of their laptops, either from Castle or ROL, and if they get a heap of
grief from a bunch of RISC OS anoraks, decide not to bother. I am and
will remain an eternal optimist.

--
"Like shooting flies with a laser cannon, the aims a bit tricky, but
it certainly deals with the flies." - Lord Miles Vorkosigan.
From "Komarr" by Lois McMaster Bujold
To read my Web Log visit http://www.gardd-lelog.org.uk

Message has been deleted

druck

unread,
May 7, 2006, 4:44:19 AM5/7/06
to
On 7 May 2006 John Campbell Rees <jw...@gardd-lelog.org.uk> wrote:
> During the course of this discussion, Paul Vigay
> <usenet...@vigay.com>,
> in message <4e2237d50bu...@vigay.com> wrote:
>
>> Indeed. I would urge people to complain both to the Computer Trade Show as
>> well as Companies House - details in my previous posting.
>>
> Wouldn't it be prudent to wait a few days until 10th May, to find out
> exactly what these people's plans are. Who know, they might be planning
> on licensing one of the current flavours of RISC OS for some of their
> laptops, either from Castle or ROL, and if they get a heap of grief from a
> bunch of RISC OS anoraks, decide not to bother. I am and will remain an
> eternal optimist.

Its quite obvious what they are doing; perpetrating a fraud by passing
themselves off as the old Acorn, as they have done in every press release.
It would be better to stop them before they can profit from this deception,
rather indulging in head in the clouds wishful thinking that they have
anything any interest current RISC OS market.

Dave Plowman (News)

unread,
May 7, 2006, 5:13:17 AM5/7/06
to
In article <gemini.iyv6ck0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,

Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > Apologies for the character errors that occurred during translation
> > from the Word original:
> >
> But I thought that RISC OS is perfectly capable of reading and writing
> Word and other files.

And is any MS program capable of reading Impression files?

Surely it must, since it's the best system in the world according to you?

--
*What are the pink bits in my tyres? Cyclists & Joggers*

Dave Plowman da...@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

gr...@nospam.demon.co.uk

unread,
May 7, 2006, 6:28:08 AM5/7/06
to
In article <4e23362...@davenoise.co.uk>, da...@davenoise.co.uk
says...

> In article <gemini.iyv6ck0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,
> Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Apologies for the character errors that occurred during translation
> > > from the Word original:
> > >
> > But I thought that RISC OS is perfectly capable of reading and writing
> > Word and other files.
>
> And is any MS program capable of reading Impression files?

There are a quite number of editors that manage to struggle along.

> Surely it must, since it's the best system in the world according to you?

Hardly the best but they have an uncanny knack of being able to process
audio/video at a reasonable rate. :-p

--
Greg Harris (Norwich)

Ray Dawson

unread,
May 7, 2006, 7:39:19 AM5/7/06
to
"Dave Plowman (News)" <da...@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <gemini.iyv6ck0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,
> Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Apologies for the character errors that occurred during translation
> > > from the Word original:
> > >
> > But I thought that RISC OS is perfectly capable of reading and writing
> > Word and other files.
>
> And is any MS program capable of reading Impression files?
>
> Surely it must, since it's the best system in the world according to
> you?

I long since stopped using Impression in favour of Ovation Pro.

However, good as Ovation Pro is - and there is a Windows version - it
isn't compatible with the files which I have to deal with on a daily basis
to earn my bread and butter. Otherwise, I would use OP for Windows.

Cheers,

Ray D

VinceH

unread,
May 7, 2006, 11:42:08 AM5/7/06
to
On 6 May 2006, Grahame Parish wrote:
> In article <9a598622...@druck.freeuk.net>, druck
> <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:

> >
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/05/acorn_computers_reborn/

> > I've already blasted the register for that one.

> Is there a case for Trading Standards or the Advertising
> Standards people to get involved in this?

If there is *definitely* no connection with 'our' Acorn - which
despite everything that's been said, we quite simply do not know
for certain at this stage - then there would be a case for raising
a complaint with the ASA.

However, I have a very low opinion of the ASA[1] so, personally,
I'd consider it a waste of time and effort.

[1] Although not in so many words, they effectively told me a few
years ago - in the way they wormed out of dealing with a
particular complaint - that it was okay to ignore their code of
advertising practice. (CAPS code? I forget).

VinceH

unread,
May 7, 2006, 11:48:45 AM5/7/06
to
On 6 May 2006, Paul Vigay wrote:

> As an additional follow up (which I shall be escalating on
> Monday), it looks like the 'new' Acorn Computers Ltd are
> breaking section 95 of the Trade Marks Act 1994 because as far
> as my investigations go, they have not formally registered
> "Acorn" as a trademark, yet they are using the (R) symbol to
> denote a registered trademark on their website. I shall be
> contacting the patent office to discuss this on Monday.

Have you checked every equivalent trademark office worldwide?

The Act does allow you to use the symbol if the trademark is
officially registered elsewhere.

Harriet Bazley

unread,
May 7, 2006, 3:12:18 PM5/7/06
to
On 6 May 2006 as I do recall,
John Cartmell wrote:

I've been sceptical about this whole controversy, but:

[snip]

> Still synonymous with personal computers in the minds of the UK public, the
> return of the iconic brand


> at the show will give the IT trade and media an exclusive preview of
> the company's new product line. Exhibitors and visitors to the show
> will be able to see Acorn's updated brand identity


[snip]

> Synonymous within the education audience in the 1980s and 1990s, Acorn's new
> product range will appeal to those loyal to the brand

> as well as attract new
> users. The return of Acorn Computers will not doubt strike a chord
> with a generation who grew up learning on an Acorn Computer;


[snip]


>
> About Acorn Computers
> As one of the UK’s most recognisable and fondly remembered IT brands, Acorn
> Computers Limited has re-launched in 2006 as a Notebook PC vendor,

[snip]

this does look like deliberate misrepresentation.

So far as I understand it, the 'fondly remembered' company has *not*
'relaunched', 'updated its brand identity' or managed a 'return', and
the products on sale can scarcely appeal to those 'loyal to the brand'
in question, since they are unrelated and incompatible. It's fair
enough for a new company to use the name, but attempting to cash in on
the original company's goodwill (bizarre concept though this may
seem...) is about as reasonable as 'First Great Western' advertising
their links with the designs of Gooch and Churchward.

--
Harriet Bazley == Loyaulte me lie ==

A hangover is the wrath of grapes.

Chris Evans

unread,
May 8, 2006, 5:20:35 AM5/8/06
to
In article <4e22433...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell
<URL:mailto:jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant05110...@client.cjemicros.co.uk>,
> Chris Evans <ch...@cjemicros.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <ocA*oG...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Chris Joseph
> > <URL:mailto:chr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > > Adam <ne...@snowstone.org.uk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >Um, what's the big deal? If some half-bit (geddit?) start-up want's to try
> > > >and play on an old trademark, fair play to them for imagination. (I can't
> > >
> > > Except that the trademark belongs to someone else (currently Castle, I
> > > believe),
>
> > I think Castle only had a licence to use the name, I suspect the ownership
> > lies with MSDW Holdings who bought out Acorn Computers Ltd.
> > I doubt MSDW will know about the infringment or be bothered to pursue the
> > new company if they did.
>
> Anyone read The Register - hardware section.
>
> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/05/acorn_computers_reborn/

I read that before I started reading this thread and see nothing there that
conflicts or adds to what I said!


Chris Evans

--
CJE Micro's / 4D 'RISC OS Specialists'
Telephone: 01903 523222 Fax: 01903 523679
ch...@cjemicros.co.uk http://www.cjemicros.co.uk/
78 Brighton Road, Worthing, West Sussex, BN11 2EN
The most beautiful thing anyone can wear, is a smile!

Chris Evans

unread,
May 8, 2006, 5:31:37 AM5/8/06
to
In article <1146833651....@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, diodesign
<URL:mailto:diod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,

>
> Chris Evans wrote:
> > In article <ocA*oG...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Chris Joseph
> > <URL:mailto:chr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > > Adam <ne...@snowstone.org.uk> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >Um, what's the big deal? If some half-bit (geddit?) start-up want's to try
> > > >and play on an old trademark, fair play to them for imagination. (I can't
> > >
> > > Except that the trademark belongs to someone else (currently Castle, I
> > > believe),
> >
> > I think Castle only had a licence to use the name, I suspect the ownership
> > lies with MSDW Holdings who bought out Acorn Computers Ltd.
> > I doubt MSDW will know about the infringment or be bothered to pursue the
> > new company if they did.
>
> A quick check with the UK patent office shows that Element-14 own the
> Acorn name and nut log as registered trademarks. The trademarks are
> both valid, the name up to 2009 and the nut to 2007. Broadcom now own
> E-14.

I think you are mixing up E14 Ltd & E14 Inc
E14 Inc was a new company that look out a licence from E14 Ltd/Acorn and was
bought up by Broadcom.
Element 14 Ltd/Acorn Computers Ltd was bought up by MSDW Holdings and
renamed Cabot 2 which is still an active company, they sold off all assets
that they were sure they owned and could sell for a large sum, I'm sure that
it will be them that still owns the Trademark and Acorn name.

It could be that this new 'Acorn Computers Ltd' has bought the Trademark and
Acorn name from Cabot 2 and that the change of ownership hasn't yet been
registered, but I'd be surprised as I doubt Cabot would bother with a sale
that wasn't 10,000+ GBP and I can't see the Trademark and Acorn name being
worth that!

> Castle were allowed to continue using the Acorn brand in order to
> resell RiscPCs in the post-Acorn breakup. See:
>
> http://web.archive.org/web/19990203003924/www.castle-technology.co.uk/ctl.html

and...@jerseymail.co.uk

unread,
May 9, 2006, 2:16:58 PM5/9/06
to
Having just looked at the Companies house website they list many
"Acorn" companies on their website. The most alarming concern about
this news is that this company is using the Acorn Logo (I've never seen
one growing like that on an Oak tree!) Is the nut device a registered
trademark? If it is, that could be the best way to prevent them riding
on someone elses wave (so to speak).

Ian K (N)

unread,
May 11, 2006, 7:15:53 AM5/11/06
to
In article <114675481...@despina.uk.clara.net>,

Ian Stocks <nos...@testbox2.co.uk> wrote:
> Is this anyone we know :-

> http://www.ctshow.co.uk/cgi-events/exview.pl?exhibition_id=91&exbtr_id=6424

> The Logo looks familiar.

> Ian.


Hello All

Has anyone attended the show or seen any feedback from the show about this?

--
<|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|><|>

Ian karley Photocopier, Printer and Fax engineer in Dorset UK.
ne...@iank.org.uk RISC OS user and proud of it

Ray Dawson

unread,
May 11, 2006, 8:45:15 AM5/11/06
to
"Ian K (N)" <ne...@iank.org.uk> wrote:

http://www.ctshow.co.uk/cgi-events/exview.pl?exhibition_id=91&exbtr_id=6424
>
> > The Logo looks familiar.
>
> > Ian.
>
>
> Hello All
>
> Has anyone attended the show or seen any feedback from the show about
> this?
>

Presumably, as they are Acorn Computers, they will be at Wakefield, so you
can ask all your questions there :-)

Cheers,

Ray D

Andrew Wickham

unread,
May 11, 2006, 9:49:43 AM5/11/06
to

Ray Dawson wrote:
> >
> Presumably, as they are Acorn Computers, they will be at Wakefield, so you
> can ask all your questions there :-)
>
Although as Wakefield is a WROCC event (with the emphasis on the RO)
perhaps not... :)

I know that there has been a lot of grievance expressed at a new
company's acquiring/registering the Acorn name and logo for certain
purposes. My own view is that if others did not do enough to protect
the name/marks, it is open to this new outfit to use them. The name
has been bought to be exploited and for no other reason - that won't
happen by saying "there was once a company called Acorn Computers who
made some pretty good kit; we are a company that sells completely
(in)different kit, just under the same name". And if they say "Acorn
Computers was a well known name in educational/home computing in the
80s/90s, etc" they are not wrong. If the products (and has anyone
actually seen one of their products?) are not of the standard formerly
associated with the Acorn name, Acorn's historic reputation may suffer.
That is something we will worry about, but commercial law probably
won't be interested (unless the stuff is so substandard as to be
unfit/dangerous/etc).

The difficulty to me is one of personality - a company is a legal
person. If I changed my name by deed poll and let various professional
memberships lapse, and a few years later someone else changed their
name to Andrew Wickham then sent out a CV with my degree, professional
qualifications, etc to get a job, no-one would doubt that the
impersonation was not fraudulent (even if I were not losing out because
of it - I might have emigrated, changed career, or died in the
meantime). The trouble is that there are facets of corporate
personality that can be detached from the person and take on an
independent life. The pertinent question is "did _this company_ [reg
no 05690546] design, build and sell leading edge computers in the 80s
and 90s?" And the answer must be no (05690546 was only born in
January), so any claim in its advertising which implies that 05690546
did so must be at best misleading. So, how to use that question and
the inevitable answer so that Acorn's historic reputation and the
position of current RISC OS businesses do not suffer?

Andrew
[none of the above is in direct response to any particular post, btw]

John Cartmell

unread,
May 11, 2006, 10:24:38 AM5/11/06
to
In article <1147355383.1...@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,

Andrew Wickham <ajw...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I know that there has been a lot of grievance expressed at a new
> company's acquiring/registering the Acorn name and logo for certain
> purposes.

Most of the grievance has been directed at the false claims by the company
that its CV is that of another company with the same name. Registering the
same name and similar logo are simply tools to the main deception.

Tim Hill

unread,
May 11, 2006, 11:31:27 AM5/11/06