RiscPC & modules

[Chris Newman]

Hi,

!TechWriter on my RiscPC Strong ARMv4 Adjust 4.39 with Unipod has started
behaving strangely. It complains it needs GDraw 2.97 or higher; DitherExtend
0.50 or higher; AWRender 1.33 or higher.
These are in AWViewer which is in Resources & thus should be seen at startup.

I had several other copies of AWViewer which I have expunged to avoid any
confusion. My copy in Resources is up to date - 2.16 (12-Nov-11)
If I manually load AWViewer TechWriter loads as normal

The machine has always been able to find these modules before.

I've verified my HardDisc & checked it with DiscKnght in case there were any
duff spots.

Can anyone shed light as to what might have changed?

I was wondering if copies of these modules should be somewhere else as well.
I'm always a bit puzzled as to where modules should go. I've often found
their creators give no help about that.

I have never got to grips with the order in which RiscOS takes things at
startup. Is there a list of the order of events?

I think it goes something like...

Predesktop Module
Predektop Directory
Desktop file
Tasks Directory
Resources

Where do the "Hooks" in System come in to all this?

Any enlightenment gratefully received.

--
Chris Newman

[Andrew Wickham]

On Sunday, 13 March 2016 17:05:57 UTC, Chris Newman wrote:
> Hi,
>
> !TechWriter on my RiscPC Strong ARMv4 Adjust 4.39 with Unipod has started
> behaving strangely. It complains it needs GDraw 2.97 or higher; DitherExtend
> 0.50 or higher; AWRender 1.33 or higher.
> These are in AWViewer which is in Resources & thus should be seen at startup.
>

Does the !Run file within TW check for and try to load these modules?

If so, where does it look for them? If not in AWViewer then most likely in !System - so copying the modules to !System.310.Modules should help. When tidying up, did you delete copies/older versions of these modules from any "Modules" directory in !System?

HTH,
Andrew

[Sprow]

In article <55604b1e...@waitrose.com>,

Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> I have never got to grips with the order in which RiscOS takes things at
> startup. Is there a list of the order of events?

I think Archive magazine are putting together an article covering this, I
know I threw some comments into the pot, and pointed to these notes:
https://www.riscosopen.org/viewer/view/castle/RiscOS/Sources/SystemRes/Boot/Doc/MoreNotes?rev=1.4;content-type=text%2Fplain

> Where do the "Hooks" in System come in to all this?

The hook directories contain extra apps & resources (dirs Apps/Res) which are
looked at for only the OS version to which they relate. eg. RO370Hook is for
RISC OS 3.70 to 3.79 inclusive.
They also contain the factory default choices (dir Boot) which get copied
over when the machine first boots, or if you've done a !ResetBoot, eg.
!Boot/RO370Hook/Boot is copied to !Boot/Choices/Boot,
Sprow.

[Chris Newman]

In article <55609f1...@sprow.co.uk>, Sprow <ne...@sprow.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <55604b1e...@waitrose.com>, Chris Newman
> <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> > I have never got to grips with the order in which RiscOS takes things at
> > startup. Is there a list of the order of events?

> I think Archive magazine are putting together an article covering this

Goody, goody. I'm sure newcomers to the RiscOS platform would like to know
this info.

> , I know I threw some comments into the pot, and pointed to these notes:
> https://www.riscosopen.org/viewer/view/castle/RiscOS/Sources/SystemRes/Boo>t/Doc/MoreNotes?rev=1.4;content-type=text%2Fplain

Most helpful. I've saved that now.

> > Where do the "Hooks" in System come in to all this?

> The hook directories contain extra apps & resources (dirs Apps/Res) which
> are looked at for only the OS version to which they relate. eg. RO370Hook
> is for RISC OS 3.70 to 3.79 inclusive. They also contain the factory
> default choices (dir Boot) which get copied over when the machine first
> boots, or if you've done a !ResetBoot, eg. !Boot/RO370Hook/Boot is copied
> to !Boot/Choices/Boot, Sprow.

That's what I more or less thought.

Many thanks.

--
Chris Newman

[Chris Newman]

In article <c1218d12-0716-491e...@googlegroups.com>, Andrew

Wickham <ajw...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sunday, 13 March 2016 17:05:57 UTC, Chris Newman wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > !TechWriter on my RiscPC Strong ARMv4 Adjust 4.39 with Unipod has started
> > behaving strangely. It complains it needs GDraw 2.97 or higher;
> > DitherExtend 0.50 or higher; AWRender 1.33 or higher. These are in
> > AWViewer which is in Resources & thus should be seen at startup.
> >
> Does the !Run file within TW check for and try to load these modules?

> If so, where does it look for them?

Er! I'm not quite sure. I searched for GDraw & this was the only set of
references in the !Run file...

|
| Load the Drawfile module
RMEnsure DrawFile 0.00 RMLoad System:Modules.Drawfile
RMEnsure DrawFile 0.00 Error 0 "TechWriter requires the DrawFile module"
|
| Load the ArtWorks rendering modules
if "<Alias$LoadArtWorksModules>" = "" Then Error TechWriter requires the
ArtWorks rendering modules (!AWViewer)
LoadArtWorksModules
RMEnsure GDraw 2.97 Error 0 "TechWriter requires GDraw 2.97 or higher"
RMEnsure DitherExtend 0.50 Error 0 "TechWriter requires DitherExtend 0.50 or
higher"
RMEnsure ArtWorksRenderer 1.33 Error 0 "TechWriter requires AWRender 1.33 or
higher"
| Load GSpriteExtend for AWRender 1.38 or higher
RMEnsure ArtworksRenderer 1.38 Set AWRender138$Present "False"
Set GSpriteExtend$Needed "False"
If "<AWRender138$Present>" = "True" Then RMEnsure GSpriteExtend 0.68 Set
GSpriteExtend$Needed "True"
If "<GSpriteExtend$Needed>" = "True" Then RMEnsure GSpriteExtend 0.68 RMLoad
ArtWorksModules:SpriteExt
If "<GSpriteExtend$Needed>" = "True" Then RMEnsure GSpriteExtend 0.68 Error 0
"TechWriter requires GSpriteExtend 0.68 or higher"
Unset GSpriteExtend$Needed
Unset AWRender138$Present
|
WimpSlot -min 1672K -max 1672K
WimpSlot -min 1532K -max 1532K

|


> If not in AWViewer then most likely in > !System - so copying the modules
> to !System.310.Modules should help.

I'll try that.

> When tidying up, did you delete copies/older versions of these modules
> from any "Modules" directory in !System?

No.

Thanks for your help.

--
Chris Newman

[Martin Wuerthner]

Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:

> In article <c1218d12-0716-491e...@googlegroups.com>, Andrew
> Wickham <ajw...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > On Sunday, 13 March 2016 17:05:57 UTC, Chris Newman wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > !TechWriter on my RiscPC Strong ARMv4 Adjust 4.39 with Unipod has
> > > started behaving strangely. It complains it needs GDraw 2.97 or
> > > higher; DitherExtend 0.50 or higher; AWRender 1.33 or higher. These
> > > are in AWViewer which is in Resources & thus should be seen at
> > > startup.
> > >
> > Does the !Run file within TW check for and try to load these modules?
>
> > If so, where does it look for them?
>
> Er! I'm not quite sure. I searched for GDraw & this was the only set of
> references in the !Run file...

You will only find references where it *checks* for the loaded modules, not
where it tries to load them. Loading them is not TW's business. Just as any
other program using the ArtWorks renderer modules it simply issues the
*LoadArtWorksModules command to load the required modules using the
following command:

> | | Load the ArtWorks rendering modules
> if "<Alias$LoadArtWorksModules>" = "" Then Error TechWriter requires the
> ArtWorks rendering modules (!AWViewer)
> LoadArtWorksModules

> > If not in AWViewer then most likely in > !System - so copying the
> > modules
> > to !System.310.Modules should help.
>
> I'll try that.

No, please don't. This is not the way to go. No user intervention is
required to make this work. All you need is a copy of AWViewer in a place
where it is seen by the system. The fact that running TW displays errors
about missing ArtWorks rendering modules simply shows that your copy of
AWViewer is not being seen. One possible reason for this could be that your
boot sequence has an error and stops prematurely before it gets to
initialise the resource in !Boot.Resources. You can check easily whether
that is the case: If you open a Filer window for !Boot.Resources before
running TechWriter, does TechWriter then start up without an error? If so,
then your faulty boot sequence will make other programs go wrong, too, and
you are advised to fix it.

--
Martin Wuerthner MW Software http://www.mw-software.com/

------- RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing --------

[Chris Newman]

In article <c1218d12-0716-491e...@googlegroups.com>,
Andrew Wickham <ajw...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On Sunday, 13 March 2016 17:05:57 UTC, Chris Newman wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > !TechWriter on my RiscPC Strong ARMv4 Adjust 4.39 with Unipod has started
> > behaving strangely. It complains it needs GDraw 2.97 or higher; DitherExtend
> > 0.50 or higher; AWRender 1.33 or higher.
> > These are in AWViewer which is in Resources & thus should be seen at startup.
> >
> Does the !Run file within TW check for and try to load these modules?

> If so, where does it look for them? If not in AWViewer then most likely in !System - so copying the modules to !System.310.Modules should help.

I've now tried that. No luck. I also put 'em in 420- no joy.

I've discovered I've also got the latest of these modules in CCShared which
is also in Resources.

I copied my working copy of TechWriter from my netbook to check if it could
be a corruption in the programme but no improvement. I'm running out of
strategies. Why are these modules not being seen? More testing needed.
Hey, ho.

--
Chris Newman

[Chris Newman]

In article <mpro.o41ijw00he...@mw-software.com>,

Martin Wuerthner <spam...@mw-software.com> wrote:
> Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:

> > In article <c1218d12-0716-491e...@googlegroups.com>, Andrew
> > Wickham <ajw...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > On Sunday, 13 March 2016 17:05:57 UTC, Chris Newman wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > !TechWriter on my RiscPC Strong ARMv4 Adjust 4.39 with Unipod has
> > > > started behaving strangely. It complains it needs GDraw 2.97 or
> > > > higher; DitherExtend 0.50 or higher; AWRender 1.33 or higher. These
> > > > are in AWViewer which is in Resources & thus should be seen at
> > > > startup.

<snip>

> > > If not in AWViewer then most likely in > !System - so copying the
> > > modules
> > > to !System.310.Modules should help.
> >
> > I'll try that.

> No, please don't. This is not the way to go. No user intervention is
> required to make this work. All you need is a copy of AWViewer in a place
> where it is seen by the system. The fact that running TW displays errors
> about missing ArtWorks rendering modules simply shows that your copy of
> AWViewer is not being seen. One possible reason for this could be that your
> boot sequence has an error and stops prematurely before it gets to
> initialise the resource in !Boot.Resources. You can check easily whether
> that is the case: If you open a Filer window for !Boot.Resources before
> running TechWriter, does TechWriter then start up without an error? If so,
> then your faulty boot sequence will make other programs go wrong, too, and
> you are advised to fix it.

Thanks, Martin. I'll have a go tomorrow.

--
Chris Newman

[Steve Fryatt]

On 15 Mar, Steve Fryatt wrote in message
<mpro.o4218m0h...@stevefryatt.org.uk>:

> On 14 Mar, Chris Newman wrote in message
> <5560d2e3...@waitrose.com>:

>
> > I've now tried that. No luck. I also put 'em in 420- no joy.
>

> The latter isn't a good idea, as the modules should be in the folder for
> the *oldest* version of the OS that they will work on. In the case of
> modules which will work on all generations of RISC OS, that's always 310.
>
> It might also be completely irrelevant, as the version of TechWriter that
> I have here (9.12) doesn't look in System at all.
>
> I'd certainly remove the modules from !System.Modules.420, and probably
> from !System.Modules.310 as well if they weren't in there beforehand.

I see that Martin beat me to this: just remove everything that you added to
System.Modules, as it shouldn't be necessary.

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

[Steve Fryatt]

On 14 Mar, Chris Newman wrote in message
<5560d2e3...@waitrose.com>:

> I've now tried that. No luck. I also put 'em in 420- no joy.

The latter isn't a good idea, as the modules should be in the folder for the
*oldest* version of the OS that they will work on. In the case of modules
which will work on all generations of RISC OS, that's always 310.

It might also be completely irrelevant, as the version of TechWriter that I
have here (9.12) doesn't look in System at all.

I'd certainly remove the modules from !System.Modules.420, and probably from
!System.Modules.310 as well if they weren't in there beforehand.

> I've discovered I've also got the latest of these modules in CCShared
> which is also in Resources.
>
> I copied my working copy of TechWriter from my netbook to check if it
> could be a corruption in the programme but no improvement. I'm running out
> of strategies. Why are these modules not being seen? More testing needed.

You probably need to follow the process that TechWriter uses to load the
modules, step by step, and see what is going on (again, this applies to the
version of TechWriter than I have here):

1. When AWViewer is looked at by the boot process (because it's found in
Resources), it sets some system variables. Immediately after booting your
machine (ie. before trying to load anything that might try to use AWViewer),
it would be useful to know what the values of ArtWorksModules$LoadFile,
ArtWorksModules$Path and Alias$LoadArtWorksModules are.

2. At this stage, it would also be useful to know what versions, if any, of
GDraw, DitherExtend, ArtWorksRender and GSpriteExtend are loaded and active
on the machine.

3. Now, at the command line, enter the *LoadArtWorksModules command. Go back
and check again what versions of GDraw, DitherExtend, ArtWorksRender and
GSpriteExtend are loaded and active on the machine.

To see what the value of a variable is, type

*Show <variablename>

at the command line. To find the version of a module, type

*Help <modulename>

So the above sequence would probaby be to press Ctrl-F12 and then enter the
following (I've split them into blocks for stages 1 to 4, but you don't need
the blank lines):

*Show ArtWorksModules$LoadFile
*Show ArtWorksModules$Path
*Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules

*Help GDraw
*Help DitherExtend
*Help ArtWorksRender
*Help GSpriteExtend

*LoadArtWorksModules

*Help GDraw
*Help DitherExtend
*Help ArtWorksRender
*Help GSpriteExtend

You should be able to copy the results from the Task Window and paste them
here for us to look at.

[spampling]

In article <55609f1...@sprow.co.uk>, Sprow <ne...@sprow.co.uk>
wrote:

> In article <55604b1e...@waitrose.com>, Chris Newman
> <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> > I have never got to grips with the order in which RiscOS takes things
> > at startup. Is there a list of the order of events?

> I think Archive magazine are putting together an article covering this,
> I know I threw some comments into the pot, and pointed to these notes:

I'd imagine the whole thing would end up looking (in any diagram) similar
in some respects to the "Boot Structure" poster that ROL were handing out
to buyers of RO4.02 at it's release.
That said following the boot sequence through the diagram is a bit awkward
since the poster layout is based on the alphanumeric arrangement of the
individual directories and sub-directories rather than the sequence of use.

--

Steve Pampling

[Tony Moore]

On 17 Mar 2016, spampling <spam....@btinternet.com> wrote:
> In article <55609f1...@sprow.co.uk>, Sprow <ne...@sprow.co.uk>
> wrote:
> > In article <55604b1e...@waitrose.com>, Chris Newman
> > <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:

> > > I have never got to grips with the order in which RiscOS takes
> > > things at startup. Is there a list of the order of events?
>
> > I think Archive magazine are putting together an article covering
> > this, I know I threw some comments into the pot, and pointed to
> > these notes:
>
> I'd imagine the whole thing would end up looking (in any diagram)
> similar in some respects to the "Boot Structure" poster that ROL were
> handing out to buyers of RO4.02 at it's release.

It's still available at www.riscos.com/the_archive/rol/brochure/boot.pdf

> That said following the boot sequence through the diagram is a bit
> awkward since the poster layout is based on the alphanumeric
> arrangement of the individual directories and sub-directories rather
> than the sequence of use.

The sequence is shown by a dotted line.

Tony

[Martin]

In article <55604b1e...@waitrose.com>,
Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:

> I have never got to grips with the order in which RiscOS takes things at
> startup. Is there a list of the order of events?

<plug mode>
This can easily be seen for your machine, if you use Reporter.

If Reporter is started at Boot, and all Boot logging items are selected,
and the Options are set to Report Obey commands, then you will see in the
Reporter window coloured lines which clearly indicate the start and end
of each major phase of the boot process, and each Obey file which is
executed. Using RO5.23 this is about 350 lines (much less than listing
every command!).
</plug mode>

Martin

--
Martin Avison
Note that unfortunately this email address will become invalid
without notice if (when) any spam is received.

[John Rickman Iyonix]

Martin wrote

> <plug mode>
> This can easily be seen for your machine, if you use Reporter.

> If Reporter is started at Boot, and all Boot logging items are selected,
> and the Options are set to Report Obey commands, then you will see in the
> Reporter window coloured lines which clearly indicate the start and end
> of each major phase of the boot process, and each Obey file which is
> executed. Using RO5.23 this is about 350 lines (much less than listing
> every command!).
> </plug mode>

<gypsy warning mode>
I have just had an exciting time getting my Iyonix to work again after
making a change to the config of Reporter which is set to start at
Boot.

The version of Reporter (2.71) has added a new log file option
alongside the option to Save the Reporter listing. This was causing
lots of log files to be saved in the root of the main hard drive. So
without thinking it through, I changed option to to save the logs to
RAM, (same as the Reporter listing save location.

On rebooting the Iyonix the first thing that happens is that Reporter
is run and it tries to write a log file to a RAM disk that does not
yet exist. I got an almost continuous scream of error beeps which
required the reset button to interrupt.
</gypsy warning mode>

All is well now but it required some thought to put it right.


--
John Rickman - http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx
Nothing in this world is to be feared... only understood. Marie Curie

[Andrew Wickham]

On Monday, 14 March 2016 17:43:18 UTC, Martin Wuerthner wrote:
> Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <c1218d12-0716-491e...@googlegroups.com>, Andrew
> > Wickham <ajw...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > If not in AWViewer then most likely in > !System - so copying the
> > > modules
> > > to !System.310.Modules should help.
> >
> > I'll try that.
>
> No, please don't. This is not the way to go.

Indeed; this was suggested as a possible solution only on the premise of having first established that TW was trying to load modules from !System - it doesn't so it isn't! - apologies to Chris that it read more like a panacaea and thus became a red herring.

[Martin]

In article <67395f625...@rickman.argonet.co.uk>,

John Rickman Iyonix <ric...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> The version of Reporter (2.71) has added a new log file option
> alongside the option to Save the Reporter listing. This was causing
> lots of log files to be saved in the root of the main hard drive. So
> without thinking it through, I changed option to to save the logs to
> RAM, (same as the Reporter listing save location.

Probably better to just turn logging off - unless you really wanted it!

> On rebooting the Iyonix the first thing that happens is that Reporter
> is run and it tries to write a log file to a RAM disk that does not
> yet exist. I got an almost continuous scream of error beeps which
> required the reset button to interrupt.

Ouch! It is supposed to just Report a nice message. But you are right.
I suspect the open raises a weird error (RAMFS module initialised, but no
Dynamic area?). I will investigate. And fix if I can.

> All is well now but it required some thought to put it right.

The easiest would be just to hold down Ctrl at Boot ... see Help ->
Starting Reporter -> inactive dummy module. It was added for just that
emergency.

[Chris Newman]

In article <e34f526255.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>,

Thanks. I've downloaded that now.

--
Chris Newman

[Chris Newman]

In article <55625975...@avisoft.f9.co.uk>,

Martin <New...@avisoft.f9.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <55604b1e...@waitrose.com>,
> Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> > I have never got to grips with the order in which RiscOS takes things at
> > startup. Is there a list of the order of events?

> <plug mode>
> This can easily be seen for your machine, if you use Reporter.

> If Reporter is started at Boot, and all Boot logging items are selected,
> and the Options are set to Report Obey commands, then you will see in the
> Reporter window coloured lines which clearly indicate the start and end
> of each major phase of the boot process, and each Obey file which is
> executed. Using RO5.23 this is about 350 lines (much less than listing
> every command!).
> </plug mode>

Thanks, Martin. I have saved out some Reports & was about to try everybody's
latest ideas to help when the proverbial excrement hit the rotating air
moving device. My Voyager router decided to go berserk. Several of the lights
started flashing continuously Tuesday morning. Thinking it might be a
firmware update download I left it alone. When I returned many hours later it
was still doing it. After various tests & several factory resets later I have
come to the conclusion that, in the spirit of John Cleese & the parrot it is
now deceased, defunct, expired, no more, an ex-router. I'm using the Sagemcom
Plus Net gave me but it's been flashed with their firmware & I can't change
the IP address so my Network is temporarily defunct. Rather than change all
the settings I'll get a new router. It took quite a while to get this RiscPC
to work with the Sagemcom to get email traffic again.
We've also had visitors so my modules problem has had to take a back seat for
a while. Apologies to all for being tardy in replying to & acting on your
helpful advice.
I've just tried to check the settings in Reporter to see if I had Report Obey
Commands set but couldn't do it. I reckon it can't find !ConfiX so there are
several things in Resources which are not being seen.
I shall persue the problem as soon as the dust settles here.
I'm beginning to think we're in digital meltdown at home.

--
Chris Newman

[spampling]

In article <e34f526255.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>,
Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> It's still available at www.riscos.com/the_archive/rol/brochure/boot.pdf

On the wall of the walk in cupboard with shelves etc where the Beagle-xM
and Iyonix sit (just off the room where all the other kit sits)

> The sequence is shown by a dotted line.

Actually it's shown by a number of dotted lines that meander up and down
the page.

--

Steve Pampling

[Folderol]

{runs away screaming} :(

--
W J G

[John Rickman Iyonix]

Martin wrote

> In article <67395f625...@rickman.argonet.co.uk>,
> John Rickman Iyonix <ric...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>> The version of Reporter (2.71) has added a new log file option
>> alongside the option to Save the Reporter listing. This was causing
>> lots of log files to be saved in the root of the main hard drive. So
>> without thinking it through, I changed option to to save the logs to
>> RAM, (same as the Reporter listing save location.

> Probably better to just turn logging off - unless you really wanted it!

I have done that now

>> On rebooting the Iyonix the first thing that happens is that Reporter
>> is run and it tries to write a log file to a RAM disk that does not
>> yet exist. I got an almost continuous scream of error beeps which
>> required the reset button to interrupt.

> Ouch! It is supposed to just Report a nice message. But you are right.
> I suspect the open raises a weird error (RAMFS module initialised, but no
> Dynamic area?). I will investigate. And fix if I can.

>> All is well now but it required some thought to put it right.

> The easiest would be just to hold down Ctrl at Boot ... see Help ->
> Starting Reporter -> inactive dummy module. It was added for just that
> emergency.

That is useful, I had not realised the significance of "inactive
dummy" mode.

Now that my "new" boot has settled in I have stopped logging the
boot-up. I don't change the boot very often as I run an obey file
after boot has finished to set things up.

John

--
John Rickman - http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

[Alex Macfarlane Smith]

On 17/03/2016 23:27, Chris Newman wrote:
[snip]

> I'm using the Sagemcom
> Plus Net gave me but it's been flashed with their firmware & I can't change
> the IP address so my Network is temporarily defunct. Rather than change all
> the settings I'll get a new router. It took quite a while to get this RiscPC
> to work with the Sagemcom to get email traffic again.
> We've also had visitors so my modules problem has had to take a back seat for
> a while. Apologies to all for being tardy in replying to & acting on your
> helpful advice.
> I've just tried to check the settings in Reporter to see if I had Report Obey
> Commands set but couldn't do it. I reckon it can't find !ConfiX so there are
> several things in Resources which are not being seen.
> I shall persue the problem as soon as the dust settles here.
> I'm beginning to think we're in digital meltdown at home.
>

If it's the 2704N plusnet modem thing, you might be able to get to
http://192.168.0.1/expert_user.html (or whatever your IP is) - this'll
let you change the router's IP address. I don't think the stock plusnet
configuration pages allow you to do it anyway.

Alex.

[Chris Newman]

In article <CdGdnTXKSeVQCHHL...@brightview.co.uk>,

Hi folks, I'm back in cyberspace land. A mate of mine has lent me (on a
permanent basis) his spare router. It's an Addon (I hadn't heard of it either
but it's up & working).

I'll try, as soon as possible to get back to the modules problem.
I must have been having a bad day when I thought Reporter couldn't find
!ConfiX to change it's settings but that works now.
I always have Reporter set to start at the start of Boot sequence & that
works fine. I tried ticking all the boxes on that page to report everything
but that merely caused the Boot to stall as soon as the red bannere appeared.
Martin's help file says " Ensure the Reporter application is on a disc that
is available from the start of Boot." & mine is on HardDisc 4, the only one
in the machine at present so presumably that's OK but I'd not read properly
the bit about uping the text area to 500Kb plus. I'll try again later.

I'll look through all your helpful comments again & try things out.

Many thanks,

--
Chris Newman

[Chris Newman]

In article <mpro.o4218m0h...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,

Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 14 Mar, Chris Newman wrote in message
> <5560d2e3...@waitrose.com>:

<snip>

> You probably need to follow the process that TechWriter uses to load the
> modules, step by step, and see what is going on (again, this applies to the
> version of TechWriter than I have here):

> 1. When AWViewer is looked at by the boot process (because it's found in
> Resources), it sets some system variables. Immediately after booting your
> machine (ie. before trying to load anything that might try to use AWViewer),
> it would be useful to know what the values of ArtWorksModules$LoadFile,
> ArtWorksModules$Path and Alias$LoadArtWorksModules are.

> 2. At this stage, it would also be useful to know what versions, if any, of
> GDraw, DitherExtend, ArtWorksRender and GSpriteExtend are loaded and active
> on the machine.

<snip>

At last I've got back to this problem. Relevant modules now removed from all
System folders & 430 Hook. They still reside in CCShared & AWViewer, a
situation which works perfectly on my Virtual Acorn 4.39.

The current incarnations are:-
AWRender 2.16
DitherExtend 0.63
GDraw 3.12

all of which are higher than Techwriter needs.

As you can see from these TaskWindow results, the m/c is not finding them.


*Show ArtWorksModules$LoadFile
ArtWorksModules$LoadFile : IDEFS::h-4.$.!BOOT.Resources.!AWViewer.LoadRMs

*Show ArtWorksModules$Path
ArtWorksModules$Path : IDEFS::h-4.$.!BOOT.Resources.!AWViewer.RMStore.

*Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules
Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : ||

*Help GDraw
No help found.
*Help DitherExtend
No help found.
*Help ArtWorksRender
No help found.
*Help GSpriteExtend
No help found.
*
*LoadArtWorksModules
*Help GDraw
No help found.
*Help DitherExtend
No help found.
*Help ArtWorksRender
No help found.
*Help GSpriteExtend
No help found.
*

I have run up my disc with the last backup & if that resources is opened
Techwriter no longer complains so I reckon putting my duff boot somewhere
safe & syncing the saved boot back might be the way to go.
I'd probably only need to put my Organizer stuff back.

Thanks for your continued interest in my exasperating problem.

--
Chris Newman

[Tony Moore]

On 24 Mar 2016, Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:

[snip]

> At last I've got back to this problem. Relevant modules now removed
> from all System folders & 430 Hook. They still reside in CCShared &
> AWViewer, a situation which works perfectly on my Virtual Acorn 4.39.

[snip]

> As you can see from these TaskWindow results, the m/c is not finding
> them.

[snip]

> *Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules
> Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : ||

Alias$LoadArtWorksModules is set in the Run file of AWViewer:

Set Alias$LoadArtWorksModules Run <Obey$Dir>.LoadRMs

so that, here,

*Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules
Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : Run ADFS::ide.$.!BOOT.Resources.!AWViewer.LoadRMs

Check that AWViewer is in Resources, and that its Run file contains the
line quoted above.

Tony

[Tony Moore]

On 24 Mar 2016, Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 24 Mar 2016, Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > At last I've got back to this problem. Relevant modules now removed
> > from all System folders & 430 Hook. They still reside in CCShared &
> > AWViewer, a situation which works perfectly on my Virtual Acorn 4.39.
>
> [snip]
>
> > As you can see from these TaskWindow results, the m/c is not finding
> > them.
>
> [snip]
>
> > *Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules
> > Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : ||
>
> Alias$LoadArtWorksModules is set in the Run file of AWViewer:

Apologies, that should read Boot file

> Set Alias$LoadArtWorksModules Run <Obey$Dir>.LoadRMs
>
> so that, here,
>
> *Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules
> Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : Run ADFS::ide.$.!BOOT.Resources.!AWViewer.LoadRMs
>
> Check that AWViewer is in Resources, and that its Run file contains the
> line quoted above.

Again, Boot file, not Run file.

> Tony
>
>
>

[Chris Newman]

In article <eaa0e86555.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>, Tony Moore

<old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24 Mar 2016, Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> > On 24 Mar 2016, Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > At last I've got back to this problem. Relevant modules now removed
> > > from all System folders & 430 Hook. They still reside in CCShared &
> > > AWViewer, a situation which works perfectly on my Virtual Acorn 4.39.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > As you can see from these TaskWindow results, the m/c is not finding
> > > them.
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > *Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : ||
> >
> > Alias$LoadArtWorksModules is set in the Run file of AWViewer:

> Apologies, that should read Boot file

> > Set Alias$LoadArtWorksModules Run <Obey$Dir>.LoadRMs
> >
> > so that, here,
> >
> > *Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : Run
> > ADFS::ide.$.!BOOT.Resources.!AWViewer.LoadRMs
> >
> > Check that AWViewer is in Resources,

It is.

> > and that its Run file contains the
> > line quoted above.

> Again, Boot file, not Run file.

Looks Ok. See below...

Set ArtWorksModules$LoadFile <Obey$Dir>.LoadRMs
Set ArtWorksModules$Path <Obey$Dir>.RMStore.

Set Alias$LoadArtWorksModules Run <Obey$Dir>.LoadRMs

If "<Boot$OSVersion>" < "400" Then IconSprites <Obey$Dir>.!Sprites Else If
"<Boot$OSVersion>" < "500" Then IconSprites <Obey$Dir>.4Sprites Else
IconSprites <Obey$Dir>.5Sprites
|
| Claim the file type if ArtWorks has not claimed it
If "<Alias$@RunType_D94>"="" Then Set Alias$@RunType_D94 Run <Obey$Dir>.!Run
%%*0

--
Chris Newman

[Tony Moore]

On 24 Mar 2016, Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> In article <eaa0e86555.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>, Tony
> Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 24 Mar 2016, Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > On 24 Mar 2016, Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:

[snip]

> > > > *Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : ||

[snip]

> > > Check that AWViewer is in Resources,
>
> It is.
>
> > > and that its Run file contains the line quoted above.
>
> > Again, Boot file, not Run file.
>
> Looks Ok. See below...

[snip]

Yes, your Boot file seems to be identical to mine.

If you double-click the AWViewer Boot file, to be sure that it has been
run, what does *Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules return now?

Tony

[Steve Fryatt]

On 24 Mar, Chris Newman wrote in message
<5565e24e...@waitrose.com>:

> *Show ArtWorksModules$LoadFile ArtWorksModules$LoadFile :
> IDEFS::h-4.$.!BOOT.Resources.!AWViewer.LoadRMs
>
> *Show ArtWorksModules$Path ArtWorksModules$Path :
> IDEFS::h-4.$.!BOOT.Resources.!AWViewer.RMStore.
>
> *Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : ||

Is that really two vertical bars?

If so, that's your problem right there: *LoadArtWorksModules won't work
because it's just set to a comment, and that's what TechWriter uses to load
the modules.

Since your !AWViewer.!Boot file looks correct, I wonder if something's
trampling the Alias or stopping it being set? Checking Tony's latest test
should identify that.

[Chris Newman]

In article <d9d3f66555.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>,

Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24 Mar 2016, Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> > In article <eaa0e86555.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>, Tony
> > Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > On 24 Mar 2016, Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > On 24 Mar 2016, Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:

> [snip]

> > > > > *Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : ||

> [snip]

> > > > Check that AWViewer is in Resources,
> >
> > It is.
> >
> > > > and that its Run file contains the line quoted above.
> >
> > > Again, Boot file, not Run file.
> >
> > Looks Ok. See below...

> [snip]

> Yes, your Boot file seems to be identical to mine.

> If you double-click the AWViewer Boot file, to be sure that it has been
> run, what does *Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules return now?

Thus. Which I think looks OK...


*Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules

Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : Run IDEFS::h-4.$.!Boot.Resources.!AWViewer.LoadRMs

--
Chris Newman

[Chris Newman]

In article <mpro.o4k5bl01...@stevefryatt.org.uk>,

Done, Tony's test & replied to him with the result.

I have no idea how those two REM lines came to appear. I think the Bermuda
Triangle has moved to here.

Another glitch with Resources is that although !PDF is in there the machine
keeps using !PDFview which isn't there.

Also my Netfetch & networking is doing odd things on occasions which I won't
bore you with (yet!) so it may be more expedient to sync back my last backup
copy of boot which seems to be working OK from HardDisc5 as I explained
upthread.

I've gone over the SyncDiscs manual & worked out how to put the older stuff
back & I presume it takes care of any path/leafnames that need to refer to
HardDisc4.

I'd like to discover what went wrong but I may not live long enough to
explore all the testing avenues.

--
Chris Newman

[Tony Moore]

On 24 Mar 2016, Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> In article <d9d3f66555.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>,
> Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 24 Mar 2016, Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> > > In article <eaa0e86555.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>, Tony
> > > Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > On 24 Mar 2016, Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > > On 24 Mar 2016, Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
>
> > [snip]
>
> > > > > > *Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : ||
>
> > [snip]
>
> > > > > Check that AWViewer is in Resources,
> > >
> > > It is.
> > >
> > > > > and that its Run file contains the line quoted above.
> > >
> > > > Again, Boot file, not Run file.
> > >
> > > Looks Ok. See below...
>
> > [snip]
>
> > Yes, your Boot file seems to be identical to mine.
>
> > If you double-click the AWViewer Boot file, to be sure that it has
> > been run, what does *Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules return now?
>
> Thus. Which I think looks OK...
>
> *Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules
>
> Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : Run IDEFS::h-4.$.!Boot.Resources.!AWViewer.LoadRMs

So the alias is being set correctly by AWViewer, but then apparently
overwritten by something else. This might well be a second copy of
AWViewer (with a broken Boot) and I'd suggest that you use Locate to
look for it. AWViewer should be in Resources, and nowhere else.

Tony

[David Pitt]

Tony Moore, on 25 Mar, wrote:

> On 24 Mar 2016, Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> > In article <d9d3f66555.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>,
> > Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > On 24 Mar 2016, Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> > > > In article <eaa0e86555.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>, Tony
> > > > Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > > On 24 Mar 2016, Tony Moore <old_c...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > > > On 24 Mar 2016, Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> >
> > > [snip]
> >
> > > > > > > *Show Alias$LoadArtWorksModules Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : ||

[snip - Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : || ]

> So the alias is being set correctly by AWViewer, but then apparently
> overwritten by something else. This might well be a second copy of
> AWViewer (with a broken Boot) and I'd suggest that you use Locate to look
> for it. AWViewer should be in Resources, and nowhere else.

Nothing is broken, take a look at what Alias$LoadArtWorksModules sets and
does, that is take a look at the last line in !AWViewer.LoadRMs :-

*Set Alias$LoadArtWorksModules ||

On a freshly booted OS4.39 :-

*show *LoadArtWorks*
Alias$LoadArtWorksModules :
Run HostFS::HardDisc4.$.Boot.Resources.ToBeBoots.!AWViewer.LoadRMs

(I have split the line to assist legibility.)

Then after starting !EasiWrite, which does run the LoadRMs file via the
alias :-

*show *LoadArtWorks*
Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : ||
*

--
David Pitt

[Tony Moore]

On 25 Mar 2016, David Pitt <ne...@pittdj.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

> Nothing is broken, take a look at what Alias$LoadArtWorksModules sets
> and does, that is take a look at the last line in !AWViewer.LoadRMs :-
>
> *Set Alias$LoadArtWorksModules ||

You're right.

> On a freshly booted OS4.39 :-
>
> *show *LoadArtWorks*
> Alias$LoadArtWorksModules :
> Run HostFS::HardDisc4.$.Boot.Resources.ToBeBoots.!AWViewer.LoadRMs
>
> (I have split the line to assist legibility.)
>
> Then after starting !EasiWrite, which does run the LoadRMs file via
> the alias :-
>
> *show *LoadArtWorks*
> Alias$LoadArtWorksModules : ||
> *

The status of Alias$LoadArtWorksModules would seem to confirm that
LoadRMs has been run but, in that case, why are the modules not loaded,
as reported by Chris in message <5565e24e...@waitrose.com> ?

Tony

[David Pitt]

Tony Moore, on 25 Mar, wrote:

Who knows!

In order for the last line of LoadRMs to have been executed then the
preceeding module RMLoads must also have been executed. It works here as
expected. The modules are loaded.

--
David Pitt

[Chris Newman]

In article <mpro.o4ljnt01...@pittdj.co.uk>,

I can't figure it out either. The back up I have on HardDisc5 seems to have a
corrctly working boot as if I open its Resources then TechWriter loads as
expected. As I said upthread, it seems I can copy that back using my
!SyncDiscs.

The other possibility is a clean boot & re-populate everything. However,
presuming there is a basic boot on the 4.39 ROM chips, how do I revert to
that nicely?

The m/c did some nasties last night & froze asI was doing some deletions(see
below) so I had to do a forced shut down. This morning DiscKnight showed 2
faults which I've repaired. I keep doing a verify & the disc reports OK.

Do I need a sword to fall on?

25 Mar 00:20:28 100 Title : Error
25 Mar 00:20:28 100 Task : Unknown task
25 Mar 00:20:28 100 Message : Internal error, no stack for trap handler:
Data Abort, pc = 00E59FEC: registers at 0264077C
25 Mar 00:20:28 100
25 Mar 00:20:29 100 ***Error***
25 Mar 00:20:29 100 Title : Error
25 Mar 00:20:29 100 Task : Unknown task
25 Mar 00:20:29 100 Message : Internal error: abort on data transfer at
&038F46C8
25 Mar 00:20:29 100

--
Chris Newman

[Tony Moore]

On 25 Mar 2016, Chris Newman <cvj...@waitrose.com> wrote:

[snip modules not loading, not explained]

> The other possibility is a clean boot & re-populate everything.
> However, presuming there is a basic boot on the 4.39 ROM chips, how do
> I revert to that nicely?

The 4.39 ROMs contain various modules, etc, but not the boot sequence
itself, which resides on the hard drive. !Boot can be downloaded from
http://www.riscos.com/ftp_space/439/files/439boot.zip [3.35MB]

RISC OS 4.39 !Boot sequence

This is a clean copy of the RISC OS 4.39 !Boot sequence for recovery
purposes. It is not suitable for other versions of RISC OS. It
contains all the files needed to boot RISC OS into the desktop. This
includes !System, !Scrap, !Fonts etc.

Tony

[Chris Newman]

In article <95d77b6655.old_coaster@old_coaster.yahoo.co.uk>,

Great. Many thanks for that, Tony. I've now downloaded a copy in case I need
it.

--
Chris Newman

[Chris Newman]

In article <5563fa47...@waitrose.com>, Chris Newman

> I'll look through all your helpful comments again & try things out.

At last I've been able to get back to the problem of my Techwriter
complaining it could not find some modules (ie those that were in AWViewer in
Resources).

In case it was a duff boot, I copied my last backup back (if you see what I
mean). The problem was still there so this suggested it wasn't a boot
problem. Therefore, perhaps it was an application problem. I depopulated the
Run at startup list in Configure & all was well. I then put things back one
by one, restarting each time. The problem recurred when I got to ButtonBar
(www.flypig.co.uk). I expunged ButtonBar but the problem remained. I cleared
the Run list & all was well again. I started re-populating & got the fault
at MenuBar from APDL. I removed it & all was well.

I don't have ButtonBar or MenuBar running at the moment & all is well with
Techwriter & my default PDF reader is now !PDF again (from Resources).

Why an application should suddenly start preventing the m/c from "reading"
the resources directory correctly I know not.

When I feel brave, I'll re-instate fresh copies of MenuBar / ButtonBar to see
what transpires.

--
Chris Newman

[Chris Evans (CJE/4D)]

In article <556c2d41...@waitrose.com>, Chris Newman

Fresh copies may not be enough
The problem could be[1] in their 'Choices' file/s!

Set the app to run again and
rename ADFS::128GB_SSD.$.!Boot.Choices.MenuBar as MenuBarSuspect

Most Apps will autocreate and populate their Choices files, but not all.

[1]Probably are!

Chris Evans

--

**** IGEPv5: The fastest RISC OS computer so far! ****
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