RPC2 cancelled, Acorn WS cancelled, Acorn World cancelled!! HAR
Kaustav Bhattacharya
Acorn World 98 cancelled, huh?
Risc PC 2 cancelled. It was going to happen at some stage :)
Work Station division... EXPLODE!!!!! :)
wwwwweeeeeeeeee!!!!!
Ferdinand Veldmans
<3600FF72...@bbc.co.uk>...
> AHAHAHA!!! mwah ha ha!! hehe HAHAHAAH!!!!
> Acorn World 98 cancelled, huh?
> Risc PC 2 cancelled. It was going to happen at some stage :)
> Work Station division... EXPLODE!!!!! :)
>
> wwwwweeeeeeeeee!!!!!
Dickhead.
--
Ferdinand Veldmans (aka LogiX of Topix)
f.vel...@ehv.tass.philips.com
Visit TopixWEB at http://www.dse.nl/~topix/
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Windows 98 - Who do you want to fool today?
Liam Gretton
<URL:mailto:k.bhatt...@bbc.co.uk> wrote:
> AHAHAHA!!! mwah ha ha!! hehe HAHAHAAH!!!!
> Acorn World 98 cancelled, huh?
> Risc PC 2 cancelled. It was going to happen at some stage :)
> Work Station division... EXPLODE!!!!! :)
>
> wwwwweeeeeeeeee!!!!!
I'm sure all those who have just lost their jobs will be jumping for joy
too.
Grow up.
--
Liam Gretton l...@star.le.ac.uk
Space Research Centre, li...@binliner.demon.co.uk
Physics and Astronomy Dept, phone +44 (0) 116 223 1039
Leicester University, fax +44 (0) 116 252 2464
Leicester LE1 7RH, UK http://xmm4.xra.le.ac.uk/
Greg Hennessy
<k.bhatt...@bbc.co.uk> wrote:
Hmmm what have the fanatics to say now ?
greg
Ian Molton
Oh god, look what crawled out from under it's stone now.
--
-Ian aka Lennier
Acorn Computers, the best in the world
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hawk/
BaBe - Women's human rights organisation in Croatia
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hawk/babe/
Preferences: Cats, Zap, Purple, Aspie
Richard D Skegg
reported is true, then I am bl**dy brassed off with Acorn.
There are a large number of us IT Co-ordinators who have loyally
supported Acorn through thick and thin. Then to read of them dropping
Acorn World and RPC2 is more than just a bit annoying.
Richard D Skegg
PS Those people at Acorn who've just lost their jobs must think that the
buffon jumping for joy is a really nice fella. My greatest sympathy to
them all. Many thanks for all the hard work you must have put in over
the years.
Richard D Skegg
Richard
Liam Gretton
<URL:mailto:win...@pftp.org.uk> wrote:
> There are a large number of us IT Co-ordinators who have loyally supported
> Acorn through thick and thin. Then to read of them dropping Acorn World
> and RPC2 is more than just a bit annoying.
So much for their declarations of loyalty to existing users eh?
I think that the cancellation of AW98 will do an awful lot of harm, as this
is one of the only times of the year that many Acorn developers get to meet
customers face to face, and more importantly, sell them their products.
I guess the top brass at Acorn decided it would be too embarrassing to face
angry enthusiasts who were looking forward to buying a new machine.
Ian Molton
Liam Gretton <l...@star.le.ac.uk> wrote:
> I guess the top brass at Acorn decided it would be too embarrassing to
> face angry enthusiasts who were looking forward to buying a new machine.
They still havent spoken to the entusiasts - we had to find out elsewhere.
Neil Spellings
> In article <ant17153...@xmm4.xra.le.ac.uk>,
> Liam Gretton <l...@star.le.ac.uk> wrote:
> > I guess the top brass at Acorn decided it would be too embarrassing to
> > face angry enthusiasts who were looking forward to buying a new machine.
>
> They still havent spoken to the entusiasts - we had to find out elsewhere.
Indeed they havn't - I heard from a friend (who's luckily kept his job!)
A few of my own thoughts :
I hope somebody does buy-up the rights to manufacture Phoebe, as all the
development work has been done and it is effectively a working product.
RISC OS will survive - Acorn use it far too many of their now 'core' products
to let it fall by the wayside.
I've yet to comprehend the impact on developers and dealers, although that I
suppose will depend if anyone buys up the rights to continue producing
workstations.
Obviously my comiserations go to all those made redundant, although I know all
are highly skilled inviduals who should have no problems gaining employment.
Still not a nice situation to be in though.
Acorn World '98 being cancelled will mean alot of lost sales, although I'm
sure the other shows will go ahead as planned, and will probably be even
better supported as a result. Shame it had to happen to the biggest show of
the year though.
Well, another month and Acorn Workstations _would_ have made 20 years!
Regards,
/Neil/
--
+-------------------------+---------------------------------+
| Neil Spellings | Spellings Computer Services Ltd |
| NT Systems Analyst | Telephone 0171 451 1960 |
+-------------------------+---------------------------------+
| StrongARM Acorn RiscPC Owner |
| Chairman, Association of Acorn User Groups (AAUG) |
+------------- http://www.argonet.co.uk/scs/ ---------------+
Views expressed are entirely my own...
Barry Wickett
<URL:mailto:jo...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Scuse me but what is this AW98 canceled.. erm try telling that to London
> Arena Box office!! not for them it's not!??
>
Acorn only seem to have released a press release and not told anybody
officially!
There is no mention of it on their website. No CSA.announce. No
apologies for all who have stuck with them all these years. They are
dumping the side of the market that most of us are interested in so they
don't need to be nice to us anymore. Is this the picture other people
are getting?
Perhaps some of us were being too faithful.
Barry
John Hammell
<URL:mailto:jo...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Scuse me but what is this AW98 canceled.. erm try telling that to London
> Arena Box office!! not for them it's not!??
>
>
> Jon
>
Yep, they are still selling tickets fast and furious!
They were willing to take my credit card details 10 mins ago!
--
John Hammell
Neil Spellings
> Scuse me but what is this AW98 canceled.. erm try telling that to London
> Arena Box office!! not for them it's not!??
I suspect noone's got round to telling them - Acorn employees themselves
only found out this morning. They'll be alot of work to do sorting out
cancellation fees and refunds etc.
Greg Hennessy
<mh12...@cr10m.staffs.ac.uk> wrote:
>Oh god, look what crawled out from under it's stone now.
Taking these disclosures rationally I see.
greg
dgs
> Hmmm what have the fanatics to say now ?
The next meeting of the Manchester Acorn User Group will be at
7:15pm on Monday 28th September, where Mark Moxon will have
"lots to talk about". Venue TBA.
best regards,
Your friendly local fanatic(s).
Manchester Acorn User Group - http://www.acorn.manchester.ac.uk/
RPC x86 Card Info Pages - http://acorn.cybervillage.co.uk/pccard/
"And the band played on" - anonymous Acorn Workstations employee
Fred Bambrough
Jonathan Porter <jo...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Scuse me but what is this AW98 canceled.. erm try telling that to London
> Arena Box office!! not for them it's not!??
I know. I placed my order for tickets at 5.30 this evening!
Don't know what to say. I feel just so...
It's not just a computer. It's a whole bloody community.
--
Fred
Mailto:fr...@ypical.demon.co.uk
PGP key available
Peter Howkins
He may be irrational, but at least he's irational with style. Unlike you
who
reminds me of a vulture some what.
Peter
--
Peter Howkins
<p.j.h...@lboro.ac.uk>
Dave Roberts
<URL:mailto:fr...@ypical.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Don't know what to say. I feel just so...
>
> It's not just a computer. It's a whole bloody community.
My feelings exactly. It is extremely upsetting to think that all that I see
and read here might very soon just disappear. As you say, a whole community
has just had its guts ripped out! Acorn has been a part of my life for over
14 years (no small part!), the Acorn 'net community for 5. I almost feel as
if someone (may have :) just died...
Still... Kudos to Noah Demo 3 and !Lander for encouraging me to get an
Archy when I was looking at moving to a PC. I never regretted it!
That said, I still have some spare cash sitting around and if what once was
Acorn could be resurrected, with some hope of a future (ie this
announcement hasn't just shattered 3rd party development (Hold in there
Vanders!)), I know where I'd put it.
[misc only]
--
Dave Roberts
Da...@pharpech.demon.co.uk
mrp...@leeds.ac.uk
exa...@my-dejanews.com
> > Scuse me but what is this AW98 canceled.. erm try telling that to London
> > Arena Box office!! not for them it's not!??
> >
Picture the scenario! Acorn staff have been working day and night, flat
out to get Acorn World up and running, Phoebe up and running and NCs up and
running. We get told that we are now unemployed and all you lot can do is
*bitch* and *moan* that we did not immediatly go onto the newsgroups and
the WWW pages to tell you!!
> Acorn only seem to have released a press release and not told anybody
> officially!
>
> There is no mention of it on their website. No CSA.announce. No
> apologies for all who have stuck with them all these years. They are
> dumping the side of the market that most of us are interested in so they
> don't need to be nice to us anymore. Is this the picture other people
> are getting?
Wake up Barry. This is the real world!! 75 people are now considering
how are they going to pay the mortgage next month, send the kids to school
with no lunch money etc etc. We loved Acorn as well and spent two and a
halfyears fighting internally to make the RPC et all stay as a product.
<Soap Box ON>
I have personally been reading the newsgroups for nearly 3 months on and off
and all I see in these groups is doom and gloom. Any opportunity to knock
Acorn and it's taken. We had customers phoning the support lines saying
"I own an A3010 that I bought in 1990, I am a loyal Acorn customer. How do
I convert my files to a PC?" Some loyal customer eh?? This was a very
common call.
Clan member phoning up complaining that the Clan magazine was too shiney!!
Clan member phoning up complaing they do not get a disocunt on their RPC
purchase.
WAKE UP!!!! For Ł15 LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP, you have helped push Acorn into
the descision of closing the Products business...
How many news items have YOU read from people complaining that Phoebe was
too poor a spec? TOO DAMN MANY!
<Soap Box OFF>
> Perhaps some of us were being too faithful.
Like all the Acorn staff who seem to have been forgotten about.
From a Very disappointed ex Acorn employee who fought hard for you and feels
very let down by this community!
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
exa...@my-dejanews.com
Barry Wickett <Ba...@tquest.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <4887138...@argonet.co.uk>, Jonathan Porter
> <URL:mailto:jo...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > Scuse me but what is this AW98 canceled.. erm try telling that to London
> > Arena Box office!! not for them it's not!??
> >
> officially!
>
> There is no mention of it on their website. No CSA.announce. No
> apologies for all who have stuck with them all these years. They are
> dumping the side of the market that most of us are interested in so they
> don't need to be nice to us anymore. Is this the picture other people
> are getting?
Back in the real world, 75 people have just lost their jobs remember
>
> Perhaps some of us were being too faithful.
>
> Barry
John Hammell
<URL:mailto:jo...@jhammell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <4887138...@argonet.co.uk>, Jonathan Porter
> <URL:mailto:jo...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > Scuse me but what is this AW98 canceled.. erm try telling that to London
> > Arena Box office!! not for them it's not!??
> >
> >
> > Jon
> >
>
> Yep, they are still selling tickets fast and furious!
>
> They were willing to take my credit card details 10 mins ago!
>
Can't someone else take the show over???
What about all the other exhibitors ... couldn't they get together?
--
John Hammell
John Rees
<neil.sp...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> I hope somebody does buy-up the rights to manufacture Phoebe, as all the
> development work has been done and it is effectively a working product.
It struck me that the last re-structuring,was designed to make it
easier to sell off the Workstation Division. They created a nice entity
that could easily be floated off.
--
John Campbell Rees
<jw...@argonet.co.uk> http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/jwcr/index.htm
"Just like swatting flies with a laser cannon. The aims a bit tricky, but it sure takes care of the flies" - Lord Miles Vorkosigan from "Komarr" by Lois McMaster Bujold
Nicholas Foster
<URL:mailto:Da...@pharpech.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <8dbe1d8748%fr...@ypical.demon.co.uk>, Fred Bambrough
> <URL:mailto:fr...@ypical.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Don't know what to say. I feel just so...
> >
> > It's not just a computer. It's a whole bloody community.
>
> My feelings exactly. It is extremely upsetting to think that all that I see
> and read here might very soon just disappear. As you say, a whole community
> has just had its guts ripped out! Acorn has been a part of my life for over
> 14 years (no small part!), the Acorn 'net community for 5. I almost feel as
> if someone (may have :) just died...
I think I am going to cry :-( .. Never a sader story told.
>
> Still... Kudos to Noah Demo 3 and !Lander for encouraging me to get an
> Archy when I was looking at moving to a PC. I never regretted it!
>
> That said, I still have some spare cash sitting around and if what once was
> Acorn could be resurrected, with some hope of a future (ie this
> announcement hasn't just shattered 3rd party development (Hold in there
> Vanders!)), I know where I'd put it.
>
> [misc only]
>
--
Best Wishes,
Nick mailto:ni...@foster.newnet.co.uk
mailto:ni...@weblocust.co.uk
http://www.weblocust.co.uk/ - Web site design and construction for everyone.
Roger W Wylde
<URL:mailto:fr...@ypical.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Jonathan Porter <jo...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Scuse me but what is this AW98 canceled.. erm try telling that to London
> > Arena Box office!! not for them it's not!??
>
Acorn an nice big cancellation fee.
>
> Don't know what to say. I feel just so...
Gutted, I think is the word, I was in the process of
shopping around the dealers for the best deal having
got the 500ukp deposit together. I still want to buy
the machine, even if there's no upgrade path. Streuth,
I'd even pay up front before the machine was built.
>
> It's not just a computer. It's a whole bloody community.
So true, people wouldn't buy beebs and Masters from me
if there wasn't something about owning a quality
british machine.
I just hope the fateful decision wasn't made on the
basis of the current reservation count. With the
deadline a month and a half away, there was plenty
of time for people to still place there orders.
Just when things like a positive Acorn reference
on the Sunday Times CD ROM made it look like
they had a positive public image (ie they actually
exist).
Please Acorn, please tell me this is a cheap way
of drumming up custom, to see how much support
there really is.
Roger (seriously depressed, off to watch Friends).
--
Roger Wylde (Acorn Risc PC, 200Mhz StrongARM, 50Mb and A4 Laptop, 4Mb)
_____ _ ___ _____ _ _ mailto:ro...@nifty.demon.co.uk
| _ | | _|_ _| |_| | Visit the Nifty Web Site
| | | | | |_ | | \ / url:http://www.nifty.demon.co.uk
| | | | | _| | | | | Home of Nifty Software - lots of free software
|_| |_|_|_| |_| |_| & Witley Court - Worcestershire's premier ruin
-BBCs and Masters as well as other stuff, all for sale on the Nifty Site-
- Download NiftyMenu - the easy way to organise your apps -
John Rees
> > Scuse me but what is this AW98 canceled.. erm try telling that to London
> > Arena Box office!! not for them it's not!??
It seems that no-one has bothred telling the people who design the
Acorn official web site. According to the Workstation Division's pages,
everything is still fine and dandy, and orders are still being taken for
Phoebe.
Greg Hennessy
<p.j.h...@lboro.ac.uk> wrote:
>He may be irrational, but at least he's irational with style. Unlike you
>who
>reminds me of a vulture some what.
Must be these large wings on my back :-)
greg
Matt Rix
> Don't know what to say. I feel just so...
> It's not just a computer. It's a whole bloody community.
I know exactly what you mean.
That's what happens when companies like Micro$haft become all-powerful; it
stifles innovation, not promotes it. Just using MicroSoft software is enough
to remind me why I have fought to be different all these years. I'm damn
well not going to stop now.
--
Matt Rix !!! JOIN CONVERGENCE INTERNATIONAL - THE NON-WINTEL USER GROUP: !!!
http://surf.to/bigrisc/ http://www.convergence.org/
To respond by e-mail, first remove "||REMOVE||" from my e-mail address
Adam Evans
<URL:mailto:exa...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>
> Wake up Barry. This is the real world!! 75 people are now considering
> how are they going to pay the mortgage next month, send the kids to school
> with no lunch money etc etc. We loved Acorn as well and spent two and a
> halfyears fighting internally to make the RPC et all stay as a product.
It could be more than 75 people, if dealers, devlopers, software houses
fail to survive with moral in the market low!
Everyone needs to pick themselves up, hope that the Workstations division
does surive (somehow), and then really make things work.
Adam Evans
Paul Stewart
Today is a sad day. A truely sad day for all of us.
Hey, aren't we forgetting something here. There are more companies than Acorn producing RISC OS computers.
There's IMS with their peanut and then there's the MEDI. As long as RISC OS computers are still being
produced, then it's not too bad.
Okay, we've been let down by Acorn. Now we have to support those companies still making RISC OS computers.
If we don't RISC OS will fade away like the Atari and the Amiga. We have to keep on supporting it, because
it we don't, the Medi and the Peanut will not be developed further, nor will the software that supports the
RISC OS platform. It's up us, the supporters of RISC OS and the developers to keep the light shining. Maybe
if it shines bright enough, there will be a good future for the RISC OS platform - there has to be light at
the end of the tunnel. If you look at the information from Bloomberg UK, Acorn aren't completely deserting
us, they are still going to continue to manufacture the RISC PC and the A7000+ computers. Maybe the RISC PC2
will eventually be launched, maybe it won't but as RISC OS supporters we owe it to ourselves to ensure that
it carries on in desktop computers and to ensure that it survives well on into the future.
The time has come to stop tearing Acorn apart, to stop the harsh comments that have come from this newsgroup
in the past regarding the RISC PC2. Let's face it they haven't exactly helped, have they? I mean for a
newsgroup that is supposed to be Pro Acorn, Pro RISC OS. Of late there have been far too many negative
comments about Acorn and their new computer. Anyone would think this was the ANTI-ACORN newsgroup. We've
shot ourselves in the foot many times, time I'm afraid it might be once to often (just like the Tory party)
this time.
Now is the time to show solidarity.
Now is the time to unite behind what is left.
Now is the time to show that when to going get's tough, we stay for the entire ride, and don't bail out.
It's up to us, we can make a difference. We can break the mould that Microsoft is making for everyone. We
can defy the odds.
I intend to stick with RISC OS, and attend the next big show. wherever that may be. I hope you do to.
Regards Paul Stewart.
Supporting RISC OS to the end !!!!!!!!!!!!!
John Cartmell
<exa...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> a Very disappointed ex Acorn employee who fought hard for you and feels
> very let down by this community
Every sympathy. I for one am sorry that I didn't make more positive
comments here - but I was making such comments to people who might buy the
excellent products.
There was no expectation here that an Acorn employee would comment - I'd
assumed that those who were in contact here would be too bloody angry to be
coherent (your mail is commendable in its restraint).
My very best wishes to you and your (ex)colleagues - and is it too much to
expect that you might be working again on an Acorn-like platform?
--
John Cartmell
Manchester
using Acorn RiscPC & StrongARM
Paul C.Robinson
> > It's not just a computer. It's a whole bloody community.
>
>
> We gotta keep going some how.. u're's very sad and P***ed :(
I had my own company which I had to fold in 1990 and I never felt
as bad as I did today. (Nothing to do with Acorn just for the info.)
Then I read this news group and there is light in the form of a buy out.
IF they have sorted out the IOMD2 problems before the Phoebe team went
home then we still may see it.
Lets just look for a moment.
Most of the parts to make Phoebe are standard PC kit.
It is only the yellow box, front cover, mother board and CPU card
that needs to be manufactured. The remainder should be off the shelf
stuff.
When I was at the last dealer day, Russell and Chris were explaning
how the Clan deposit deal would work. So lets look at that. I thought that
if we start at the RRP of 1,499 ex VAT.
They offerd a 425.53 ex VAT Clan discount.
142.40 Dealer Bonus
149.90 normal dealer discount
Say 200.00 for standard items CDROM, HD, floppy, PSU, memory ect.
(This may be even less depending on quantity)
581.17 left to produce and assemble.
Not much left for profit. But in numbers, well that is different.
So if the price remained the same and clan members still sent in their
deposits, then someone may still be able to make a go of it.
There are 15,000 Clan members. Many of which have or were prepared
to pay the deposit. A good start dont you think.
Any takers?
--
PC Robinson Acorn@heart
Aleph One Support:- Tel UK (00 44) 1708 403028 Fax UK (00 44) 171 9199401
Aleph One Ltd, Bottisham, CAMBRIDGE, CB5 9BA, UK Tel (00 44) 1223 811679
Web site http://www.aleph1.co.uk/
Acorn Dealer authorization number 7003 South Essex.
The Havering Acorn Centre:- Tel 01708 852225 Fax 0171 9199401
Web site http://www.havaccnt.demon.co.uk/
Martin Piper
Dear all.
We at TBA Software find it very difficult to come to terms with the news
that Acorn have decided to close the workstations department. We are extremely
sad that Acorn have decided that this closure of the workstations section
should happen.
We are also very shocked that Acorn World 98 has been postponed and
that the Pheobe, one of our greatest hopes for the next gen machine, is not to
go into production. Our deepest sympathies also go out to the workers and
their famalies that must be feeling very insecure at the moment.
We are also very sorry to the public in general and I'm sure our
associates at RComp will join us in saying that we intend to still produce
great games for the Acorn as long as it remains practical to do so.
It would be quite natural at this stage to point a finger of blame or feel
angry at Acorn for not doing more to protect the workstations department but
in reality there is no body to blame, least of all Acorn, who probably had very
good reasons for taking such a step.
It is going to take a while to deal with this news, but it is now up to you
the consumer and us the companies of the Acorn market to band together and make
sure the scene doesn't die.
--
Martin Piper
Partner, TBA Software.
Free demo downloads of our software at http://www.tba-software.co.uk/
Quake is nearly upon us! Tremble before the power that is Quake.
Andrew P. Harmsworth Esq.
This was my impression at first. But the facts are all there - users let
Acorn down. You cannot expect a new machine to launch if few people want to
buy it. Last I heard, numbers were as low as 200 reserved - that would have
generated little profit, if at all, and they could not have even thought of
producing that few. Afterall - to put it into perspective, there are 10,000
new RiscPCs still in stock - all very useful. All probably to be sold now
through Xemplar.
People have been saying that we should all go out and buy Phoebe as if Acorn
were a charity. I'd LOVE to have bought one, but the problem is that Acorn's
are just too damn good in terms of longevity - my StrongARM RiscPC is simply
too good to be true, even after nearly two years. I have no need for Phoebe,
and I suspect that that is the case with most people.
Hence: few orders placed for Phoebe. Acorn slash price effectively 500ukp -
and still? Few orders for Phoebe. Acorn shelve Phoebe. In terms of business
sense - it all makes sense. Sad? YES. I'm not saying it isn't, and I'm not
saying that Phoebe wouldn't have been a dream machine - but now it is all a
dream.
The market has rallied behind Acorn shares, with 600,000 sold today whilst
the FTSE itself DIVED. This is good news, not bad - if Acorn are to have a
future, they have more chance of it now, than if they'd launched Phoebe and
made a terrible loss (more than that spent already).
APH
--
Science Coursework http://start.at/scirep * Warwick School * * *
Warwick School http://welcome.to/warwick * WARWICK * Physics Dept
Solar System http://travel.to/theplanets * CV34 6PP, UK * 01926 776464
* * * * * * my own views * * * a...@warwick.warwks.sch.uk * * * *
Nathan Briggs
> It's not just a computer. It's a whole bloody community.
My feelings exactly.
<depressed period=ad_infinitum>
Nathan [wishing he didn't have to write this] Briggs :-(((((((((((((((((((
* ...less brains than a Rehus monkey after the third course of a Vietnamise wedding banquet.
/\ Yes, this is in ref. to the Acorn board! (I fixed this tagline :-)
--
Nathan Briggs, Acorn Programmer __ Clan Acorn: Member _
http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/briggs/ (_ __ __ o _ _ _|_ _|_
bri...@argonet.co.uk __) |_| | | | | | _> (_) | |_
David Courtney
<Pa...@havaccnt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Lets just look for a moment.
> Most of the parts to make Phoebe are standard PC kit.
> It is only the yellow box, front cover, mother board and CPU card
> that needs to be manufactured. The remainder should be off the shelf
> stuff
Acorn should only of made and sold exactly these parts. + RiscOS. :-)
It's the attempt to make other bits that put the price up.
It's the price to spec that killed the sales.
I'm sure the above could be run of a production line at 300 pounds a set.
And the PC parts aren't even the real state of the art.
Same spec Pheobe for 700 quid anyone. :-) I'm not kidding.
As for the producer, well if it doesn't sound too crazy.
There's this company in cambridge called Acorn, that consider
themselves experts in this area. Maybe they could run off a batch
on a sub contraction basis. Might have to take on some more staff!
--
Toodle Pip
_________________________________________________
David A. Courtney http://www.jinksies.com/fun.htm Interactive Fun
Risc OS Stuff at ftp://ftp.jinksies.oaktree.co.uk/pub/raw '-'-'-'-'-'-'-'
David Thorn
On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Martin Piper wrote:
>
> We are also very sorry to the public in general and I'm sure our
> associates at RComp will join us in saying that we intend to still produce
> great games for the Acorn as long as it remains practical to do so.
>
So, about tuesday then?
> It would be quite natural at this stage to point a finger of blame or feel
> angry at Acorn for not doing more to protect the workstations department but
> in reality there is no body to blame, least of all Acorn, who probably had very
> good reasons for taking such a step.
>
No, there were no *really* good reasons. The development money had been
spent, even if they had only put the machines for which a deposit has
been paid into production they would still have made less of a loss than
they have now.
I remember P. Bondar saying at a conference that the SA RPC cost less than
300 UKP to supply, and the rest went towards new technologies. Now, we
as people whi have over the years religiously bought these new
techonologies have lost out for something that Acorn have failed at in
real terms (the Oracle contract is a classic example).
> It is going to take a while to deal with this news, but it is now up to you
> the consumer and us the companies of the Acorn market to band together and make
> sure the scene doesn't die.
>
Fuck it, and you know it. Most of ius now, particularly those who have
put money aside for a new machine are going to go out in the next week and
buy a PII 400 or whatever.
Most people stuck with the platform in the face of much better opposition
in the vain belief something better would come along.
It hasn't.
That's all folks.
Dave.
Barry Wickett
> Fred Bambrough <fr...@ypical.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > It's not just a computer. It's a whole bloody community.
>
A little extreme I think.
Even if nobody takes on the Workstations side of things Acorns and their
users will be around for quite a few years yet :-)
Barry
Barry Wickett
> > <URL:mailto:jo...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Scuse me but what is this AW98 canceled.. erm try telling that to London
> > > Arena Box office!! not for them it's not!??
> > >
>
> out to get Acorn World up and running, Phoebe up and running and NCs up and
> running. We get told that we are now unemployed and all you lot can do is
> *bitch* and *moan* that we did not immediatly go onto the newsgroups and
> the WWW pages to tell you!!
>
> > officially!
> >
> > There is no mention of it on their website. No CSA.announce. No
> > apologies for all who have stuck with them all these years. They are
> > dumping the side of the market that most of us are interested in so they
> > don't need to be nice to us anymore. Is this the picture other people
> > are getting?
>
> how are they going to pay the mortgage next month, send the kids to school
> with no lunch money etc etc. We loved Acorn as well and spent two and a
> halfyears fighting internally to make the RPC et all stay as a product.
>
Acorn forgetting that it is mainly a bunch of enthusiastic people. Not
just an entity.
I've been unemployed myself, luckily it was only I that went without.
> <Soap Box ON>
>
> I have personally been reading the newsgroups for nearly 3 months on and off
> and all I see in these groups is doom and gloom. Any opportunity to knock
> Acorn and it's taken. We had customers phoning the support lines saying
> "I own an A3010 that I bought in 1990, I am a loyal Acorn customer. How do
> I convert my files to a PC?" Some loyal customer eh?? This was a very
> common call.
>
> Clan member phoning up complaining that the Clan magazine was too shiney!!
> Clan member phoning up complaing they do not get a disocunt on their RPC
> purchase.
>
> WAKE UP!!!! For £15 LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP, you have helped push Acorn into
> the descision of closing the Products business...
>
> How many news items have YOU read from people complaining that Phoebe was
> too poor a spec? TOO DAMN MANY!
Not everything has been doom and gloom. There were a lot of positive
postings from people like myself who work with Acorn computers every
day. I work with them in a business environment and sell many inside
science exhibits. I couldn't do my job to the level I do without the use
of my Acorn.
I went to the developers conferences and got excited about the release
of RPC2. I was happy with the progression from RPC1. We had many plans
for what we would do with a more powerful machine *and* loved the
colour! We would have bought many and sent them around the world as we
have done with RPC1s.
>
> <Soap Box OFF>
>
> > Perhaps some of us were being too faithful.
>
> Like all the Acorn staff who seem to have been forgotten about.
>
Many postings to this group have remembered them, and mentioned nothing
else.
I've been faithful to Acorn since the early eighties. I too was feeling
a little forgotten about. However, to me this announcement does not mean
unemployment.
>
> From a Very disappointed ex Acorn employee who fought hard for you and feels
> very let down by this community!
I'm sorry you feel so let down. People slagging others off always seem
to shout the loudest. Thanks for fighting.
Barry
dgs
Barry Wickett <Ba...@tquest.org.uk> wrote:
> > > It's not just a computer. It's a whole bloody community.
> >
> > That just died :(
>
> A little extreme I think.
>
> Even if nobody takes on the Workstations side of things Acorns and their
> users will be around for quite a few years yet :-)
As ever, Barry, you summarise it so well. MAUG announced its new
URL yesterday, and its next meeting today. Plenty of energy
left as yet.
Manchester Acorn User Group - http://www.acorn.manchester.ac.uk/
RPC x86 Card Info Pages - http://acorn.cybervillage.co.uk/pccard/
"And the band played on" - Anonymous Acorn Workstations employee
John Waddell
<URL:mailto:k.bhatt...@bbc.co.uk> wrote:
> AHAHAHA!!! mwah ha ha!! hehe HAHAHAAH!!!!
> Acorn World 98 cancelled, huh?
> Risc PC 2 cancelled. It was going to happen at some stage :)
> Work Station division... EXPLODE!!!!! :)
>
> wwwwweeeeeeeeee!!!!!
>
> http://quote.bloomberg.com/analytics/bquote.cgi?story_num=603780470&view=story&version
> =front.quote.uk.cfg
>
Who is this turd?
--
John Waddell, Langbank, Renfrewshire
Darren Salt
John Rees <jw...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <360138B4...@argonet.co.uk>, Neil Spellings
> <neil.sp...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>> I hope somebody does buy-up the rights to manufacture Phoebe, as all the
>> development work has been done and it is effectively a working product.
> It struck me that the last re-structuring,was designed to make it easier to
> sell off the Workstation Division. They created a nice entity that could
> easily be floated off.
Hindsight. Wonderful thing; if only we had it at the time... :-|
--
| Darren Salt anti-UCE | nr. Ashington, | ds@youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk
| Acorn Risc PC, A3010, | Northumberland | ds@zap,uk,eu,org
| Spec+3, BBC Master 128 | Toon Army | arcsalt@spuddy,mew,co,uk
| Ni!
Borg bumper sticker: "We Brake for Technology."
Ross Tierney
> development work has been done and it is effectively a working product.
It's not a matter of 'buying up' the rights. Other than licencing RISC OS
for it, they'd sell the design for virtually nothing - it'll never make them
any money, so they can virtually give it away. They've already written-off
the development costs so that won't make any difference either.
The problem is making the damn thing in quantities. 2000 unit (a pretty
small number) would cost millions. There are very few companies around
willing to spend that speculating that enough Acorn users still exist who
are willing to buy it when the original manufacturer won't touch it.
Supported platform? Nah.
Acorn have shot themselves in the foot on this one IMHO. *AND* they've
ruined any chance of somebody else taking up the reigns.
> RISC OS will survive - Acorn use it far too many of their now 'core'
> products to let it fall by the wayside.
You and I won't see RISC OS around for much longer. It won't be on our
desktops once the Linux STB's hit the market and M$ push in next year
heavily with Web TV. Acorn won't even get a serious look-in. They just shot
themselves in the foot - and soon now I suspect they'll notice they've just
shot a hole in the boat under them. Water is now flowing in.
> I've yet to comprehend the impact on developers and dealers, although that
> I suppose will depend if anyone buys up the rights to continue producing
> workstations.
You've hit on something very serious there too. Acorn have a history of
having supported their enthusiast market pretty well over the years. They've
just binned that.
Do you think that new consultancy clients will want to work with a company
that cans products and customers that easily?
Me neither.
> Obviously my comiserations go to all those made redundant, although I know
> all are highly skilled inviduals who should have no problems gaining
> employment. Still not a nice situation to be in though.
Hundreds of others are facing imminent unemployment soon too. The dealers &
developers have hundreds of staff who are ow all facing P45's - possibly
including myself. Not a situation I'm overjoyed about.
> Acorn World '98 being cancelled will mean alot of lost sales, although I'm
> sure the other shows will go ahead as planned, and will probably be even
> better supported as a result. Shame it had to happen to the biggest show of
> the year though.
Sales of what exactly? Other than Peanut there won't be another computer for
any of us. I have to agree though, the thought of an SA-powered laptop does
sound mighty, mighty appealing now though. Better start saving my
dole-money :)
> Well, another month and Acorn Workstations _would_ have made 20 years!
Stupid is as Stupd does. Cest la vie.
Ross Tierney.
r...@eidos.co.uk "...Breathing in... Breathing out..."
kra...@argonet.co.uk -An Old Friend
Ross Tierney
> Can't someone else take the show over???
>
> What about all the other exhibitors ... couldn't they get together?
S'cuse me? Nobody has stood firmer against the Wintel tide than me, but even
I can't see the point - other than as a wake.
Mind you, that would be one *helluva* party!
Hey! Lets do it!!! :)
Ross Tierney
> It struck me that the last re-structuring,was designed to make it
> easier to sell off the Workstation Division. They created a nice entity
> that could easily be floated off.
Yup. That had been the plan. Sadly though, management in the new Acorn
'didn't have the time' - and that's straight from the big-wigs as I hear it.
If they had just waited a few more weeks, or perhaps a month, put Phoebe on
hold under the cover of a 'problem with IOMD2' that would have been
eminently plausible and would have allowed those looking at a buy-out a
chance to negotiate.
They didn't wait; and so they've killed it stone-cold.
Ross Tierney
> Acorn could be resurrected, with some hope of a future (ie this
> announcement hasn't just shattered 3rd party development (Hold in there
> Vanders!)), I know where I'd put it.
Now all we need are another 1,998 others who feel that way and we CAN
resurect the RPC2. Sadly, as even the manufacturer wouldn't support it, I
doubt we'll get 19.
Ian Molton
> Regards Paul Stewart.
> Supporting RISC OS to the end !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will NEVER buy a wintel box.
Now I cant get a Phoebe, I will buy either a CATs or an Alpha. (Probably
CATs, as I like ARM processors. (I wonder if we'll see an FP capable ARM10
CATS II ?)
--
-Ian aka Lennier
Acorn Computers, the best in the world
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hawk/
BaBe - Women's human rights organisation in Croatia
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hawk/babe/
Preferences: Cats, Zap, Purple, Aspie
Ian Molton
Fred Bambrough <fr...@ypical.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> It's not just a computer. It's a whole bloody community.
I shall miss the community spirit - there's nothing quite like it anywhere
else. :-(
Ian Molton
Roger W Wylde <ro...@nifty.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Roger (seriously depressed, off to watch Friends).
My god, you MUST be depressed :-)
(I'm gutted, personally. Something just died. It was the last credible
british desktop computer. Britain will never have a desktop machine again.)
Ian Molton
Matt Rix <mjr_news@||REMOVE||poboxes.com> wrote:
> That's what happens when companies like Micro$haft become all-powerful;
> it stifles innovation, not promotes it. Just using MicroSoft software is
> enough to remind me why I have fought to be different all these years.
> I'm damn well not going to stop now.
I'd suggest taking your money to chaltech.
Ian Molton
<exa...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> > > Scuse me but what is this AW98 canceled.. erm try telling that to
> > > London Arena Box office!! not for them it's not!??
> > >
> Picture the scenario! Acorn staff have been working day and night, flat
> out to get Acorn World up and running, Phoebe up and running and NCs up
> and running. We get told that we are now unemployed and all you lot can
> do is *bitch* and *moan* that we did not immediatly go onto the
> newsgroups and the WWW pages to tell you!!
Nobody is moaning at you - we expected ACORN to tell us, not the poor
people they just sacked!
<snip>
> I have personally been reading the newsgroups for nearly 3 months on and
> off and all I see in these groups is doom and gloom. Any opportunity to
> knock Acorn and it's taken. We had customers phoning the support lines
> saying "I own an A3010 that I bought in 1990, I am a loyal Acorn
> customer. How do I convert my files to a PC?" Some loyal customer eh??
> This was a very common call.
> Clan member phoning up complaining that the Clan magazine was too
> shiney!! Clan member phoning up complaing they do not get a disocunt on
> their RPC purchase.
I personally was not one of these - I appreciated all the effort you people
put into the machine. I was (no, I AM) proud to own my RiscPC (and my A400
before that).
> WAKE UP!!!! For Ł15 LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP, you have helped push Acorn into
> the descision of closing the Products business...
It was superb value.
> How many news items have YOU read from people complaining that Phoebe was
> too poor a spec? TOO DAMN MANY!
If I could get a Phoebe I would (if I had the money) now pay double for it.
> > Perhaps some of us were being too faithful.
> Like all the Acorn staff who seem to have been forgotten about.
Indeed. You are not forgotten. Thankyou for your hard work - it's not your
fault the new management are idiots.
> From a Very disappointed ex Acorn employee who fought hard for you
Thankyou.
Ian Molton
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> My very best wishes to you and your (ex)colleagues - and is it too much
> to expect that you might be working again on an Acorn-like platform?
I hope so!
James Taylor
>
> Can't someone else take the show over???
>
> What about all the other exhibitors ... couldn't they get together?
This is a very good question. Doesn't anyone know what would be
involved in taking over the organisation of the show? After all,
London Arena now have a convenient empty weekend on 16th-18th October
that would fit in nicely with the timetables of many Acorn developers.
Wouldn't it make perfect sense to chip in together and make it happen
despite Acorn's lack of a new machine?
Perhaps someone could volunteer to coordinate this and communicate
with Acorn to find out what would be necessary.
--
James Taylor <ja...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
/* Replace nospam with oakseed to reply by email */
PGP key available ID: 3FBE1BF9
Fingerprint: F19D803624ED6FE8 370045159F66FD02
Ross Tierney
> I write the following in a state of shock at the recent news:
>
> Today is a sad day. A truely sad day for all of us.
>
> Hey, aren't we forgetting something here. There are more companies
> than Acorn producing RISC OS computers.
Oh, I love it. Somebody out there more die-hard than me :)
> There's IMS with their peanut and then there's the MEDI. As long as
> RISC OS computers are still being produced, then it's not too bad.
>
> Okay, we've been let down by Acorn. Now we have to support those
> companies still making RISC OS computers.
Yes, I agree, but the other companies, the ones who aren't have
suddenly had their next years plans ripped away from them in the most
brutal way possible. Many will not survive this. Many were on the edge
BEFORE this.
I wish the Peanut and Medi the very best of luck, but I think that it
wil be a struggle for them both. They need to both take the bull by
the horns and push their products to everybody who will look at them.
IMS should change the name for their own design and go to town on the
design. Thousands of users were lining up ready to purchase either an
RPC2 or a Peanut. Suddenly they have the whole market to themselves.
The only problem is that their machine won't be faster than the one
those people have on their desks at home. A solution is needed fast.
Medi is targetted at a market I know nothing about these days. Xemplar
will probably look at it and sell it for them, but not if the software
to run on it dries up. Tough future ahead for them.
> If we don't RISC OS will fade away like the Atari and the Amiga.
I have to disagree. It's because of die-hard fans like yourself (and
me) who havn't let it dissapear entirely thet we even remember their
names today. Without those people, it would have dried up to be blown
away in the sands of time.
> We have to keep on s upporting it, because it we don't, the Medi and
> the Peanut will not be developed further, nor will the softw are that
> supports the RISC OS platform. It's up us, the supporters of RISC OS
> and the developers to keep th e light shining. Maybe if it shines
> bright enough, there will be a good future for the RISC OS platform -
> the re has to be light at the end of the tunnel. If you look at the
> information from Bloomberg UK, Acorn aren't completely deserting us,
> they are still going to continue to manufacture the RISC PC and the
> A7000+ compute rs. Maybe the RISC PC2 will eventually be launched,
> maybe it won't but as RISC OS supporters we owe it to our selves to
> ensure that it carries on in desktop computers and to ensure that it
> survives well on into the future.
My prediction is that RPC2 is dead and buried. It will never see the
light of day because the financial cost to re-start it would be too
much for anybody to consider sanely. You're looking at 3 million quid
to get it back - and even then it'd only be around in the middle of
next year because of these cancellations and the reassignment of
personnel into other projects.
There is one simple fact that will even stop people from doing it even
if they HAD the cash... For three MILLION quid think what ELSE you
could design...
See my point?
> The time has come to stop tearing Acorn apart, to stop the harsh
> comments that have co me from this newsgroup in the past regarding the
> RISC PC2. Let's face it they haven't exactly helped, have t hey?
People like Kai, myself and others have tried that this year. It never
really worked, and now it's all too late.
Time to look at the other opportunities this has opened up.
> I mean for a newsgroup that is supposed to be Pro Acorn, Pro RISC OS.
> Of late there have been far too many negative comments about Acorn
> and their new computer. Anyone would think this was the ANTI-ACO RN
> newsgroup. We've shot ourselves in the foot many times, time I'm
> afraid it might be once to often (just like the Tory party) this time.
We kept on shooting with pea-shooters. We caused some bruises and
lacerations with out ammo. Our new 'best friend', Stan got out the old
'45 and shot our flippin' leg off.
Unless we re-build, around something better, and *real* soon, his
actions have cost hundreds of people around here whom I call my
friends their jobs, careers and livelyhoods. I'm not willing to let
that happen just yet, because i have seen a very VERY good option out
of this mess.
I am forbidden to say any more, but I just ask you to all stick around
for a few weeks and wait for other companies to get their plans in
order. There are a few looking at sorting this mess out once and for
all.
> Now is the time to show solidarity.
> Now is the time to unite behind what is left.
> Now is the time to show that when to going get's tough, we stay for
> the entire ride, and don't bail out.
Sadly that '45 I mentioned blew away a large chunk of the hull. Most
of us making out salaries from this market are now working hard to try
to repair the damage or build another ship with the timbers we've been
left. Just give the developers a chance.
> It's up to us, we can make a difference. We can break the mould that
> Microsoft is making for everyone. We can defy the odds.
Hear hear. I for one won't switch from the ARM platform. I have no
interest in doing so now, or in my forseeable future. Nor should you.
> I intend to stick with RISC OS, and attend the next big show. wherever
> that may be. I hope you do to.
RISC OS I'm not so sure about. Acorn have already kicked me and my
company in the teeth once. I for one do not intent to let them get
into a possition where they can follow that blow up. I'm looking for
newer, more trust-worthy friends who have their eyes firmly on the
future of ARM based desktop computing.
> Regards Paul Stewart.
> Supporting RISC OS to the end !!!!!!!!!!!!!
:)
--
Ross Tierney
> I had my own company which I had to fold in 1990 and I never felt
> as bad as I did today. (Nothing to do with Acorn just for the info.)
Hiya Paul, good to see you in the thick of it here... It came as a bit
of a shock to me too. I went in to work at 12 lunch (I do the 12-8pm
shift - don't do mornings) and I just had a post-it note telling me
that Acorn weren't making computers any more and I should go down to
the Chinese restaurant for a chat with the rest of the guys...
Spent the whole day until 8:30 in meetings and chatting with people on
the phone about solutions.
Got a long way too.
> Then I read this news group and there is light in the form of a buy out.
> IF they have sorted out the IOMD2 problems before the Phoebe team went
> home then we still may see it.
It's late (4:30am) and I don't know the exact details, but AFAIK RISC
OS 4 worked on it. 1600 screen resolutions were Okay, the sound was
dodgy still and the PCI stuff was alright. The rest I never found out.
Seems a shame to drop it and was probably foolish IMHO. I don't even
think they really wanted to do it, but paying for the first production
run was just too costly to go ahead with in their current financial
climate.
The real pitty is that they didn't allow others in to try to bolster it.
Now it's too late. Acorn can't retract that statement yesterday
(Thurs) because they'd look indecisive on the stock-market.
They've destroyed any credibility that the machine had and destroyed
all hope that it would be supported in the future so there's little
point in anybody else getting 3 to 5 million to manufacture it now.
Think what Aleph One could do with 3 to 5 million pounds!
Would you invest in in Phoebe? Or design something afresh to your own
specs?
> Lets just look for a moment.
> Most of the parts to make Phoebe are standard PC kit.
Wrong. That's the problem. VIDC 20 v2 is a flippin' expensive chip to
do in the numbers Acorn are wanting them in. IOMD2 is tons more.
I estimate from the figures I've heard rumoured that we're talking
about half the cost of the motherboard in just those two chips. Then
add Hard discs, keyboards, CD Drive, Case, IRDA, etc. And then factor
in the development costs of the software too. Not to mention the
licencing costs of packaging third-party software with each machine.
In numbers of < 20,000 I'd expect an RRP somewhere around 1400-1600
and that's smack where we had it.
> It is only the yellow box, front cover, mother board and CPU card
> that needs to be manufactured. The remainder should be off the shelf
> stuff.
£50, £40, £400, £100 as minimum costs I'd say.
> When I was at the last dealer day, Russell and Chris were explaning
> how the Clan deposit deal would work. So lets look at that. I thought
> that if we start at the RRP of 1,499 ex VAT.
>
> They offerd a 425.53 ex VAT Clan discount.
> 142.40 Dealer Bonus
> 149.90 normal dealer discount
> Say 200.00 for standard items CDROM, HD, floppy, PSU, memory ect.
> (This may be even less depending on quantity)
> 581.17 left to produce and assemble.
Profit margin? Remember they have had to pay for 175 staff's salaries
every month throughout the development cycle. I'd estimate that at
something like 600,000 - 700,000 per month + overheads for premesis
etc. Call it a cool 1 mil per month as staffing costs. The RPC2
project lasted two years of development. That's a lot of money any way
you cut it.
I still say that it wouldn't have cost that much (comparatively) to
bring Phoebe to life, and they'd have re-couped most of that, but I'd
say there was some tax-break somewhere by writing the project off,
> Not much left for profit. But in numbers, well that is different.
> So if the price remained the same and clan members still sent in their
> deposits, then someone may still be able to make a go of it.
>
> There are 15,000 Clan members. Many of which have or were prepared
> to pay the deposit. A good start dont you think.
147 put their money where their mouth was.
Sobering isn't it.
> Any takers?
Fewer now than there would have been yesterday.
Paul C.Robinson
<URL:mailto:kra...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant17214...@havaccnt.demon.co.uk>, Paul C.Robinson
> <URL:mailto:Pa...@havaccnt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[snip]
> > Not much left for profit. But in numbers, well that is different.
> > So if the price remained the same and clan members still sent in their
> > deposits, then someone may still be able to make a go of it.
> >
> > There are 15,000 Clan members. Many of which have or were prepared
> > to pay the deposit. A good start dont you think.
>
> 147 put their money where their mouth was.
>
> Sobering isn't it.
>
> > Any takers?
>
> Fewer now than there would have been yesterday.
>
Many Clan members were not informed officialy or were waiting for the
official letter/forms. I am a Clan member and I can conferm that had
I not only been a dealer or read certain news groups I would not have known
about the Clan deal. I did phone Acorn to pay my deposit last week and was
told that I should wait for the official notification.
Paul C.Robinson
> > In article <48872...@argonet.co.uk>, Jonathan Porter
> > <URL:mailto:jo...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > In article <8dbe1d8748%fr...@ypical.demon.co.uk>,
> > > Fred Bambrough <fr...@ypical.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > > It's not just a computer. It's a whole bloody community.
> > >
> > >
> > > We gotta keep going some how.. u're's very sad and P***ed :(
>
>
> > Not much left for profit. But in numbers, well that is different.
> > So if the price remained the same and clan members still sent in their
> > deposits, then someone may still be able to make a go of it.
>
> > There are 15,000 Clan members. Many of which have or were prepared
> > to pay the deposit. A good start dont you think.
>
>
> Unfortunately, not enough of the Clan members had expressed a definite
> interest in buying or today's (yesterday's by now) events would not
> have happened.
Not all the Clan members were told. I am a Clan member and if I was not
a dealer as well or read some of the news groups I would never have known
about the deal.
[snip]
Stuart Bell
> From a Very disappointed ex Acorn employee who fought hard for you and feels
> very let down by this community!
I sympathise entirely with those most affected by this decision. But you
can't blame the moaners on c.s.a.m for this event.
I'm not even sure that you can blame Acorn. (Dare I write that?). The
fact is that Apple, with perhaps 10% installed user base and 5% new
machine sales world-wide is not out of the woods yet, and could still
collapse under the Wintel monolith. What real chance did Acorn have
once computers became like TVs or videos - purchased at Dixon's - with
perhaps 0.001% of Wintel sales.
It was, IMHO, inevitable that, given that we wanted the same things that
PC users have; Java, Shockwave, etc etc etc etc, but that Acorn were
supposed to fund development with a user base less than one thousandth
the sixe of MicroSloths, the figures would just not add up.
With RPC2, Acorn tried to balance recouping costs with a price that
would produce sales. The original price might have recouped costs, but
it was clear that the price was too high for all but the convinced
(certified?) Acorn enthusiast. And you can't last long term on the
enthusiasts market once the demise of Acorn in schools meant that there
were far fewer new enthusiasts coming along.
So Acorn dropped the effective price by £500. It became more sellable,
but I suspect that the accountatnts realised that if most sales were at
that reduced price (and only a moron wouldn't pay £15 to join the Clan
to save 500ukp) then the figures just wouldn't stack up. Hence the
decision.
As for the future, do you really want an Amiga-like future in which you
spend your whole life focussing on rumours about back-room deals between
companies arguing over the 'corpse' of a once-great company?
--
Stuart Bell
writing from a Wintel-free zone.
exa...@my-dejanews.com
John Hammell <jo...@jhammell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant17175...@jhammell.demon.co.uk>, John Hammell
> <URL:mailto:jo...@jhammell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <4887138...@argonet.co.uk>, Jonathan Porter
> > <URL:mailto:jo...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Scuse me but what is this AW98 canceled.. erm try telling that to London
> > > Arena Box office!! not for them it's not!??
> > >
> > >
> > > Jon
> > >
> >
> > Yep, they are still selling tickets fast and furious!
> >
> > They were willing to take my credit card details 10 mins ago!
> >
>
> Can't someone else take the show over???
Officially the show is only postponed. The management have been looking
for some one to run the show. I would personally say that the chances are
quite slim as the cost would be too high. The show costs around half a
million to organise. Dealer and developers would complain about the
stand space being too high! I hope they now realise how much Acorn was
subsidising this event for them (and for Acorn of course, hence why we
did it).
Things started to look quite bad about 3 weeks ago when the Acorn World
purchase orders stopped being aproved by management. The advanced Phoebe
deposits was designed to bring in about one million pounds in advanced
orders so we could fund the continous development of Phoebe, launch it to
some guarenteed customers, make a small profit on it and hope to build
the NC business further to support the rest of the work we did.
But, sods law intervened and we could not get the deposit scheme off the
ground fast enough :(
> What about all the other exhibitors ... couldn't they get together?
Unlikely. They had problems paying about 2k for a stand (plus they have
to close the shops/phones, pay staff, accomodation etc) but the stand
space was very cheap for an annual show with 8000 visitors.
Oh well, life sucks eh?
This will no doubt give Xemplar Education an opportunity to drop Acorn,
something they have been trying to do for the last two and a half years!
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Paul C.Robinson
<URL:mailto:exa...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
[snip information about AW]
> Things started to look quite bad about 3 weeks ago when the Acorn World
> purchase orders stopped being aproved by management. The advanced Phoebe
> deposits was designed to bring in about one million pounds in advanced
> orders so we could fund the continous development of Phoebe, launch it to
> some guarenteed customers, make a small profit on it and hope to build
> the NC business further to support the rest of the work we did.
> But, sods law intervened and we could not get the deposit scheme off the
> ground fast enough :(
There was some of us at the dealer day that wonderd why the £500 Clan
deposit deal. Why was it so high. Then there are many Clan members that
have yet to receive their official information (I am one of them).
All is looking a little clearer now.
What has happend to Russell and Chris? best Email me direct for that.
I guess that BETT will be the next to go. Or Exemplare and Acorn will
no longer take centre stage.
[Snip remainder]
John Tytgat
> From a Very disappointed ex Acorn employee who fought hard for you and feels
> very let down by this community!
Don't feel let down ! What people post is not necessairy what everybody
things here. There is a silent majority.
John.
--
John Tytgat "Never make any mistaeks."
John....@barco.com (anonymous)
Peter Bell
David DCLXVI/M <DA...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> My RiscPC does what I want and I didn't *need* a Phoebe but with the
> discount, I was on the verge of making the decision to get one and just
> waiting to hear Chris Cox at the next WACG meeting. Now, I don't know
> what I'll do. I hate MicroSot (sic) enough to pay a premium and/or
> invest if anyone does take on the mantle - as long as they're
> adventurous enough to push the platform forward and not simply provide
> a lifebelt for a drowned legless duck.
My position is very similar. I don't *need* a RPC2, and the cost of
replacing my current RPC/SA (which has 96 MB RAM, 7 podules, 1 NIC, 1
PC CoPro installed), and trying to house my 12 disc/tape/cd drives had
discouraged me from placing an early order for RPC2. However, the
latest discount offer had helped to persuade me, and I would have,
almost certainly, placed an order at AW98. My son had also started
accumulating his savings (and paper round earnings) to make the
upgrade from RPC 700 to RPC2.
Likewise, I will avoid a MicroSloth platform for as long as it is
possible. My first thought was that the Alpha/Linux might be the way
for me to go, and whilst I do write some assembler code on VAX and
Alpha, I realise that I am too fond of the ARM instruction set to want
to abandon it.
So, any viable ARM based platform will get my money (and my son's),
especially if it presents a UI which is close to RO for usability (the
possibility of upgrading to ARM10/SA? with FP would be a distinct
advantage).
I feel that Linux (and NetBSD?) are reaching a point where they are
viable alternatives to MicroSloth in the business world - I have never
been sufficiently confident that Acorn would be accepted in the
business world to make a whole-hearted attempt to promote them
commercially. My only real concern over the Unix-like environments is
that I am not a great fan of the C language and, AFAICT, almost all
systems-level programming is written in C.
To stand any chance of survival the new contender(s) for the Acorn
market will have to move beyond home/hobbyist/education markets and
attain respectability in the business world.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Bell - pe...@foursqre.demon.co.uk - FourSquare Computing Ltd
5 Drome Path, Winnersh, Wokingham, Berkshire RG41 5HB, UK.
Tel. +44 (0) 118 989 0982 Fax. +44 (0) 118 979 4639
Nicholas Foster
<URL:mailto:ra...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <ant18053...@havaccnt.demon.co.uk>,
> Paul C.Robinson <Pa...@havaccnt.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Unfortunately, not enough of the Clan members had expressed a definite
> > > interest in buying or today's (yesterday's by now) events would not
> > > have happened.
>
> > Not all the Clan members were told. I am a Clan member and if I was not
> > a dealer as well or read some of the news groups I would never have known
> > about the deal.
>
> news groups plus a snotty comment from Chris Cox complaining that it had
> been leaked before the Clan were told.
>
> I was still waiting for the Clan mailing before I committed myself to
> buying a Phoebe.
I to niether recived any mailing and would like to have seen it before I
commited cash. If Acorn are reading this they should get Phoebe going again
and see what happens with some proper advertising, they would make money, I
saw the next stage of Acorns future as after Phoebe, it was going to be
rosie.
>
> Ray D
>
--
Best Wishes,
Nick mailto:ni...@foster.newnet.co.uk
mailto:ni...@weblocust.co.uk
http://www.weblocust.co.uk/ - Web site design and construction for everyone.
Paul Vigay
> I know. I placed my order for tickets at 5.30 this evening!
>
> Don't know what to say. I feel just so...
>
> It's not just a computer. It's a whole bloody community.
Erm, the community still exists. The community is not going to die overnight.
I for one am still actively developing Risc OS products and I will continue to
do so for the forseable future.
Being realistic about it, we still have our RPCs which still work, are still
more productive than the competition and still do what we want them to do.
Sure I for one wanted to order a Phoebe (in fact I wanted to order three!),
but a number of people said they were perfectly happy with their existing SA
RPCs which is true. It's a more than capable machine. This is probably what
ultimately harmed Acorn. Their machines were just "too damned good" and people
didn't feel the need to upgrade every six months or so (like in the Wintel
market) thus Acorn didn't have a ready stream of suckers^H^H^H^^H^H^H^H
customers to buy their machines. Users were happy holding on to the one they
already had because it was more productive, reliable and more pleasurable to
use than the competition. It's a bit like selling an ever-lasting lightbulb -
you destroy your own market once everyone who wants one has one.
Risc OS still exists. Risc OS products are still being developed. We need to
stay positive and look to the future, which I hope will stay green (or yellow
in some form....). I for one won't start developing Wintel software and will
continue to put my time and effort into Risc OS solutions.
regards,
--
Paul Vigay Acorn Programming,
__\\|//__ Internet Consultancy
http://www.matrix.clara.net (` o-o ') & Web Design
-----------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo---------------------------
Paul Vigay
>
> > Regards Paul Stewart.
> > Supporting RISC OS to the end !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> Now I cant get a Phoebe, I will buy either a CATs or an Alpha. (Probably
> CATs, as I like ARM processors. (I wonder if we'll see an FP capable ARM10
> CATS II ?)
Actually I'm tempted to buy a couple more RPCs (as Acorn still have a pile in
stock). I came over in a cold sweat last night at the vision of my RPC
suddenly developing a fault and there being no more Acorn to repair it. I
think for my peace of mind I ought to have a couple of spare ones....
Philip R. Banks
> In comp.sys.acorn.misc exa...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > From a Very disappointed ex Acorn employee who fought hard for you and feels
> > very let down by this community!
>
> Don't feel let down ! What people post is not necessairy what everybody
> things here. There is a silent majority.
Not to mention some of us have been waiting in spite of similar
circumstances already having occured. How do you think the New Zealand Acorn
community felt when Acorn NZ closed and we were left to the 'tender' mercies
of a company that really knew nothing about Acorn kit? And as a result Acorn
gear lost market share in droves out here as that company failed to even
really promote the machine, let alone hold ground.
I imagine the Australian Acorn community had a similar experience as well.
Admitedly we at least had the recourse of still being able to go directly
to Britain for the machines. But with almost no local support, despite the
terrific efforts of local dealers trying their best, how long do you think we
could continue to advocate Acorn machines as a serious contender when any
support issues would have to be forwarded halfway around the world?
No, some of the Acorn online community has been moaning and let things
down, but the vast majority of us have done our bit for the machines. In a lot
of cases more than our bit too. And the moaners have been here for as long as
I can remember, certainly as far back as the A5000 launch and further. But I
fail to see how a lot of us could have done more. Hell, we were so far cut off
out here that we couldn't even put in a Clan pre-order because our local
dealers didn't have any formal channel available for doing that.
If I could buy a RiscPC 2, I would. I have the money sitting in an account
at the moment. And this is even at a time when the shitty exchange rate would
have meant me paying about NZ$5700 for the animal, when a typical high end PC
or Mac retails for around NZ$2600.
For one I am angry at the decision to effectively throw away more than a
years worth of work on what was, to all appearances, a finished and marketable
product. I am angry that the eleven years I have invested in these machines is
coming to an end in such an ignoble way. I am sorry for the staff whose jobs
have been lost in this, several of the people affected I have had the pleasure
of knowing. And I am especially angry that the new management at Acorn seems
to have such callous disregard for both the lives of their staff but also for
the myriad of other people's lives their action has now directly put into
jeopardy.
I hope the new management will be prepared to step forward and explain.
But I fail to see what more I could do to support these machines having
done four FAQs (one for nearly ten years now), run an FTP archive for
something like nine years, contributed in talks and tutorials to the local
user group, produced code for the machines (some of which made it into RISC OS
and some of which has been in the background of quite a few RISC OS titles)
_and_ tried to make living producing code for these machines commercially.
Philip
--
Philip R. Banks http://www.geocities.com/~banksp/ @@@@@/|
Sig Theatre presents :- The Blob @@@@/#|
@@@/##|
*gloop* *Gloop!* Arghh! *gloop* *gloop* "My God!" *gloop* Arghh! @@/---|
*gloop* *hisss* *crackle* *crackle* *congeal* "Yayyyy!" @/ |
Paul Vigay
<URL:mailto:cmk...@cix.compulink.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:24:18 +0100, Kaustav Bhattacharya
> <k.bhatt...@bbc.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >http://quote.bloomberg.com/analytics/bquote.cgi?story_num=603780470&view=story&versio
> n=front.quote.uk.cfg
>
> Hmmm what have the fanatics to say now ?
Can I join the queue to buy one of their (ex) demonstration Phoebe's. They had
some working, so perhaps they could auction them off or something. I for one
would still order one.
Paul Vigay
> I just hope the fateful decision wasn't made on the
> basis of the current reservation count. With the
> deadline a month and a half away, there was plenty
> of time for people to still place there orders.
Actually, being realistic I can see a problem with reserving new machines
straight away. A number of people I've spoken to are huge Acorn fans but were
not jumping to order Phoebes. Why? Because of past experience with the Risc PC
600. I know a number of people who bought the RPC 600 about a week before I
got my RPC700 and were most disappointed with the higher spec machine and
modified motherboard coming out.
These same people have told me that they would certainly buy a Phoebe but
would wait six months or so to see if any fixes, or mkII motherboards suddenly
come out.
I think this may have had an adverse effect on advance orders.
Just a thought...
Paul Vigay
> In article <6trvs0$thj$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> <exa...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> > very let down by this community
>
> comments here - but I was making such comments to people who might buy the
> excellent products.
I too would like to echo my sympathy for everyone at Acorn. As someone who has
also faught had in the face of adversary for the Acorn cause for the last 15
years. I will still continue to do so.
It's a pity that despite positive things about Acorn and Phoebe amd Risc OS
etc, people still flame you for being a 'blind' advocate. At least I can look
back on the past few years and imagine how much more productive I've been
through using Acorn products.
I now look to the future (with my RPC firmly on my desk) and imagine how
productive I'm going to continue to be using Risc OS.
> My very best wishes to you and your (ex)colleagues - and is it too much to
> expect that you might be working again on an Acorn-like platform?
Hear Hear!!
Paul Vigay
<URL:mailto:mh12...@cr10m.staffs.ac.uk> wrote:
> In article <8dbe1d8748%fr...@ypical.demon.co.uk>,
> Fred Bambrough <fr...@ypical.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> else. :-(
Erm, why? It's not going anywhere.
Not aiming these comments at you Fred, but making a general observation!
The problem with people on this newsgroup is that they are too negative and
gloom mongering. What with winging over the colour of Phoebe rather than
what's inside the case. If you complained about a person on those criteria
you'd be branded rascist. It's what's inside that counts.
The Acorn community still exists. Existing machines aren't going to disappear
over night and existing users aren't all going to resign from the newsgroup
etc.
--
Paul Vigay Acorn Programming,
__\\|//__ Internet Consultancy
http://www.matrix.clara.net (` o-o ') & Web Design
-----------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo---------------------------
My ambition: To go down in history as the person who destroyed Microsoft!
Paul Vigay
>
> Can't someone else take the show over???
If my lottery numbers come up between now and then, I would willingly sponsor
the show. :-)
Paul Vigay
>
> > Roger (seriously depressed, off to watch Friends).
>
> My god, you MUST be depressed :-)
>
> (I'm gutted, personally. Something just died. It was the last credible
> british desktop computer. Britain will never have a desktop machine again.)
Blame Tony 'gutless puppet' Blair for selling out to the US computer
companies.
--
Paul Vigay Acorn Programming,
__\\|//__ Internet Consultancy
http://www.matrix.clara.net (` o-o ') & Web Design
-----------------------------------ooO-(_)-Ooo---------------------------
Paul Vigay
>
>
> That's what happens when companies like Micro$haft become all-powerful; it
> stifles innovation, not promotes it. Just using MicroSoft software is enough
> to remind me why I have fought to be different all these years. I'm damn
> well not going to stop now.
You have to be braindead to use Microsoft products! I only got a PC so I could
develop Psion Epoc 32 stuff (and play games). I'm sure to hell not going to
start writing wintel applications!
Christian Kohlschütter
Peter Bell <pe...@foursqre.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> So, any viable ARM based platform will get my money (and my son's),
> especially if it presents a UI which is close to RO for usability (the
> possibility of upgrading to ARM10/SA? with FP would be a distinct
> advantage).
>
> I feel that Linux (and NetBSD?) are reaching a point where they are
> viable alternatives to MicroSloth in the business world - I have never
> been sufficiently confident that Acorn would be accepted in the
> business world to make a whole-hearted attempt to promote them
> commercially. My only real concern over the Unix-like environments is
> that I am not a great fan of the C language and, AFAICT, almost all
> systems-level programming is written in C.
a possible non-Acorn solution would be an ARM powered board running
BeOS
--
Christian Kohlschuetter Wombat
wom...@pingpong.de http://www.pingpong.de
c...@wombat.nu http://www.wombat.nu
Lionel Smith
> This will no doubt give Xemplar Education an opportunity to drop Acorn,
> something they have been trying to do for the last two and a half years!
That has been all but b..... obvious, but firmly denied by some.
Lionel
--
___ ______
/ / / ___/ 6 grandchildren | Sea Vixen for pugnacity
/ / ionel A.| \ mith 4 children & 1 dog | Hunter for elegance
/ /____ __\ | No wonder life is a breeze | Phantom for clout
/_______/ /_____/ lio...@argonet.co.uk | IT Tech. Supp. | ZFC B+2
Don't forget to dip your Celeron in the salt.
Lionel Smith
(Greg Hennessy) wrote:
> Hmmm what have the fanatics to say now ?
Glad to see that you haven't lost any of your charm.
The sort of charm possessed by those U-Boat captains who machine gunned the
survivors in the water.
Neil Spellings
> Jonathan Porter wrote:
> > > Scuse me but what is this AW98 canceled.. erm try telling that to London
> > > Arena Box office!! not for them it's not!??
>
> It seems that no-one has bothred telling the people who design the
> Acorn official web site. According to the Workstation Division's pages,
> everything is still fine and dandy, and orders are still being taken for
> Phoebe.
I think you'll find that the 'people who design the website' no longer work for Acorn, being part of the Workstations division.
Regards,
/Neil/
--
+-------------------------+---------------------------------+
| Neil Spellings | Spellings Computer Services Ltd |
| NT Systems Analyst | Telephone 0171 451 1960 |
+-------------------------+---------------------------------+
| StrongARM Acorn RiscPC Owner |
| Chairman, Association of Acorn User Groups (AAUG) |
+------------- http://www.argonet.co.uk/scs/ ---------------+
Views expressed are entirely my own...
Neil Spellings
> In article <48873b27b...@staffs.ac.uk>, Ian Molton
> <URL:mailto:mh12...@cr10m.staffs.ac.uk> wrote:
> > In article <8dbe1d8748%fr...@ypical.demon.co.uk>,
> > Fred Bambrough <fr...@ypical.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > It's not just a computer. It's a whole bloody community.
> >
> > I shall miss the community spirit - there's nothing quite like it anywhere
> > else. :-(
>
> Erm, why? It's not going anywhere.
Indeed.
> Not aiming these comments at you Fred, but making a general observation!
>
> The problem with people on this newsgroup is that they are too negative and
> gloom mongering. What with winging over the colour of Phoebe rather than
> what's inside the case. If you complained about a person on those criteria
> you'd be branded rascist. It's what's inside that counts.
>
> The Acorn community still exists. Existing machines aren't going to disappear
> over night and existing users aren't all going to resign from the newsgroup
> etc.
I quite agree. All the user groups still exist, and plan to do so for the
forseeable future. If anything, the community should become stronger - we need to
pull together more than ever now.
Cheers,
Ian Molton
Ross Tierney <kra...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> 147 put their money where their mouth was.
> Sobering isn't it.
I was last but one? wow.
--
-Ian aka Lennier
Acorn Computers, the best in the world
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hawk/
BaBe - Women's human rights organisation in Croatia
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hawk/babe/
Preferences: Cats, Zap, Purple, Aspie
Andrew Green
> It's not just a computer. It's a whole bloody community.
Well said that man.
I started out with the Electron when I were a nipper. Moved up to the
Master Compact from there (and still have it somewhere). Then an
Archimedes 310, and lastly my RiscPC 600. I was going to wait for
Phoebe, but I guess a simple long-overdue SA upgrade will have to do for
now. I also imagine Apple will start seeing my money before too long.
My sincere thanks and commisserations to those at Acorn who have just
been sacked. Anyone know whether the welcome contributors from Acorn to
this group in recent months (St.Brodie, Andrew Hodgkinson and Piers
Wombrell) are among the casualties?
How soon expectation turns to nostalgia.
Thanks to all,
Andrew.
--
Andrew Green ---------------------------------------- gr...@argonet.co.uk
A founder member of the Charles Fort Institute - http://www.forteana.org/
Article Seven Graphic and Internet Design ---- http://www.article7.co.uk/
Andrew McMurry
> Support RISC OS? Yes - is there any alternative that isn't a pain in
> the backside? Slightly outdated but still a real pleasure to use. I
> CANNOT believe that one day I may be forced to use that abomination of
> MicroSoft.
DO NOT GO DOWN THE MICROSOFT PATH.
It is definatly worth the time to learn to use Unix machines. More and
more top quality FREE Unix software is being written. GCC and the GIMP
being two examples which instantly spring to mind.
The reason I had a BBC Micro, when lots of other people went for
Spectrums and Commodores (as they had more games), was that it was
much better for programming. I later enjoyed the extendability of the
OS (with vectors and sideways ROMS). When I was shown PCs, I thought
they were useless, as you had to spend lots more money to get a
compiler or interpreter.
When I was an undergraduate, there was a thriving Acorn User Group.
Most of whom were to some extent, hackers, who enjoyed getting into
the inside of RISC OS. These days all the hackers have PCs running
Linux. A student can more afford to buy a PC and run Linux than buy a
RPC. Free unixes are the ultimate in hacker friendly OSes, as you have
the entire source code to play with.
I have become convinced that Free Operating Systems are the future.
It would surprise me if Microsoft had more people working on any of
their OSes than there are people working on Linux. Even less well
known free OSes have far more people working on the OS than RISCOS
ever had.
If users of NetBSD or Linux ever complain about such and such not
being supported in the way that RISC OS users do very regularly, they
are told to go and fix it themselves. Seeing the large amount of
software produced for the size of the RISC OS userbase, I expect that
many RISC OS users are well able to "go and fix it themselves".
The obvious answer is for RISC OS users to preserve the best features
of the OS, by re-implementing them themselves, either merging them
with NetBSD or Linux, or starting from something like MACH.
There are people who would be happy to sell hardware (even ARM based
hardware) to run the OS on. eg the Chalice Tech CATS system.
If you want RISC OS to survive, don't stand there winging, DO
SOMETHING. I would be happy to help, as soon as I have got NetBSD
working on my Psion.
Andrew
Neil Spellings
> My sincere thanks and commisserations to those at Acorn who have just
> been sacked. Anyone know whether the welcome contributors from Acorn to
> this group in recent months (St.Brodie, Andrew Hodgkinson and Piers
> Wombrell) are among the casualties?
From what I've heard, there were no casualities in any of the software
divisions, which would include all of the above.
The majority of redundancies were from Workstations - Chris Cox, Suzy Wright,
Dave Walker etc.
Reg Hems
>> I just hope the fateful decision wasn't made on the basis of the
> Actually, being realistic I can see a problem with reserving new
> machines straight away. A number of people I've spoken to are huge
> Acorn fans but were not jumping to order Phoebes........
> These same people have told me that they would certainly buy a Phoebe
> but would wait six months or so to see if any fixes, or mkII
> motherboards suddenly come out.
Mmmm.... In Dec 1997 I wrote:
/begin/
Newsgroups: comp.sys.acorn.hardware,argonet.acorn.assist
Subject: Re: Upgrade - Help needed
Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 21:03:37 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <47f35fd4...@argonet.co.uk>
I'm thinking of upgrading my 420/1 machine.
[snipped introduction]
Mike Cook said at AW97 that there would be a review of SCSI cards in
the December AUser.
I now need to make up my mind whether to change to SCSI and what do I
do with my current IDE.
My logic runs roughly like this:
If I decided to upgrade to a new machine at some time in the future,
this would be the new RiscPC 2. As its release is due around the end
of next year plus say 12 months of bug fixing, I would not have to
make a decision until the next Millennium ;_)
If I had an int. SCSI card + ext. CD drive + ZIP + 2 HDisks, I could use
all of that with the new machine (?) and put my redundant IDE interface
back in my 420/1.
1. Does this logic sound flawed?
/end/
I now have a 2nd hand Castle SCSI interface with external 1 Gb SCSI HD
and my original Watford Electronics IDE interface with int. 500 Mb HD.
(see also thread "Phoebe or Phoenix?").
It took me 5 months to make the final decision and am now glad I did.
BTW I would be prepared to 'throw' a few 100 UK Pounds at an orchestrated
'Maquis' action to counter this pernicious action by the 'men in
grey suits' in the Acorn background.
--
__ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________
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| || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines
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Goetz.Kohlberg
>CATs, as I like ARM processors. (I wonder if we'll see an FP capable ARM10
>CATS II ?)
So we all should adress Acorn that they license RiscOs 4 to the CATs board.
As SIMTEC told me the implementation would be no big problem.
And as CATs is much cheaper than Phope (RIP), this would be a great deal for
them!
Goetz
Thorsten Seitz
>
> Support RISC OS? Yes - is there any alternative that isn't a pain in
> the backside? Slightly outdated but still a real pleasure to use. I
> CANNOT believe that one day I may be forced to use that abomination of
> MicroSoft.
You might want to check out BeOS at http://www.be.com
A nice new OS with lots of good technology (multiprocessing,
multithreading, 64-bit filesystem, ...) and a great community
(comp.sys.be.misc etc.).
-Thorsten
--
Thorsten Seitz, Jurastr. 70, 70565 Stuttgart, Germany
thor...@itap.physik.uni-stuttgart.de
http://www.itap.physik.uni-stuttgart.de/~thorsten/Be/index.html
Andrew P. Harmsworth Esq.
<wad...@which.net> wrote:
> In article <3600FF72...@bbc.co.uk>, Kaustav Bhattacharya
> <URL:mailto:k.bhatt...@bbc.co.uk> wrote:
> > AHAHAHA!!! mwah ha ha!! hehe HAHAHAAH!!!!
> > Acorn World 98 cancelled, huh?
> > Risc PC 2 cancelled. It was going to happen at some stage :)
> > Work Station division... EXPLODE!!!!! :)
> >
> > wwwwweeeeeeeeee!!!!!
>
> Who is this turd?
I don't know, but with an email address like that? Someone should report him
to the BBC. It's hardly professional behaviour.
APH
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Simon John
> Lets just look for a moment. Most of the parts to make Phoebe are standard
> PC kit. It is only the yellow box, front cover, mother board and CPU card
> that needs to be manufactured. The remainder should be off the shelf stuff.
Exactly. Now, dump that yellow front and case and use a standard PC NLX
[beige/grey] tower case (40ukp).
Put in a 4.3Gb HD (100ukp), a 32Mb EDO SIMM (25ukp), 24x CD-ROM (50ukp), FDD
(15ukp)....
Then provide plenty of PCI slots for using cheap sound, E-IDE, video cards
(you can get an 8Mb PCI video card for about the same as an Acorn 2Mb VRAM
card!)......
If budgets are really tight we could load RISCOS and the PCI drivers off of
the HD - we probably would have with Galileo.
Basically make a *PC* RiscPC2 with only the basics of processor and OS etc.
--
Simon E. John
Email: sim...@argonet.co.uk
WWW: http://surf.to/simonsite
ICQ: 15267939
Get your Bits out for the lads!
Dave Roberts
<URL:mailto:gr...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> My sincere thanks and commisserations to those at Acorn who have just
> been sacked. Anyone know whether the welcome contributors from Acorn to
> this group in recent months (St.Brodie, Andrew Hodgkinson and Piers
> Wombrell) are among the casualties?
Well I know Andrew isn't and I would guess Stuart isn't either. It does
make me wonder how many will actually stay when one of their main reasons
for joining Acorn has just been gutted however. It certainly wouldn't seem
to have been for the pay and working hours :-|.
--
Dave Roberts
Da...@pharpech.demon.co.uk
mrp...@leeds.ac.uk
Tiggr
> I write the following in a state of shock at the recent news:
>
> Today is a sad day. A truely sad day for all of us.
>
Indeed!
>
> The time has come to stop tearing Acorn apart, to stop the harsh comments that have co
> me from this newsgroup
> in the past regarding the RISC PC2. Let's face it they haven't exactly helped, have t
> hey? I mean for a
> newsgroup that is supposed to be Pro Acorn, Pro RISC OS. Of late there have been far
> too many negative
> comments about Acorn and their new computer. Anyone would think this was the ANTI-ACO
> RN newsgroup.
The problem is that those who wish to bitch and moan continue to do so, those
who are content with their lot / realistic get fed up trying to make people see sense and
consequently only the moaners are left - the vociferous minority who want the world on a
plate AND it must be a multiprocessor plate with...Aaaargh! Join The Real World (TM)!
I thought the RPC2, whilst not meeting my wish list, was a huge step
up. We were all impressed by a 4-5 x increase in speed with the StrongARM.
This would have been a similar jump PLUS other enhancements: PCI, sound,
MIDI, and not forgetting long file names :-) [and as for the people who
complained about there still being a 220 char pathname limit in the WIMP ...]
</flame on...>
--
_____
|. _ T...@whitekt.demon.co.uk
||(_)
____) White Knight on the Web - http://www.whitekt.demon.co.uk
Luke Bosman
David DCLXVI/M <DA...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > There are 15,000 Clan members. Many of which have or were prepared
> > to pay the deposit. A good start dont you think.
> > Any takers?
> Unfortunately, not enough of the Clan members had expressed a definite
> interest in buying or today's (yesterday's by now) events would not
> have happened.
Some of us were waiting for pay day. :-(
I think this offer was announced within the last two or three weeks.
(If that long ago.) A lot of people get paid every four weeks and can't
just put down five hundred smackers without having to consider such
luxuries as food, a roof and clothes.
> The knowledge that you are about to die clarifies the mind and I
> should expect that about twice the number previously prepared to buy
> Phoebe at the discount price would now do so - but, likewise, twice
> the number just thinking of moving over to PCs will now actually go
> ahead and do it.
Yuck. I may have a look round at Apples and investigate Linux. I may
get a StrongARM processor. However, unless development of Browse
continues (yes, I know about Fresco but it doesn't feel right to me)
and Java 1.2 is released (when promised) then I don't think I'll be
hanging around.
As someone who uses his computer mainly to maintain a website and do
little bits of artwork and worksheets for language lessons I really do
feel shagged by Acorn. I understand why they did this, I don't
understand the timing.
Now, how the hell do I explain to my mates down the pub why I'm
frowning (in a tears welling up sort of way) without seeming extremely
nerdy?
Cheers all,
Luke
--
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Thomas Boroske
Peter Bell <pe...@foursqre.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I feel that Linux (and NetBSD?) are reaching a point where they are
> viable alternatives to MicroSloth in the business world - I have never
> been sufficiently confident that Acorn would be accepted in the
> business world to make a whole-hearted attempt to promote them
> commercially. My only real concern over the Unix-like environments is
> that I am not a great fan of the C language and, AFAICT, almost all
> systems-level programming is written in C.
Err - why would you want to do system-level programming ? Or why
would you need to ? And there's no-one stopping you to do it in
ADA or whatever, apart from portability.
Kind regards,
--
Thomas Boroske
Thomas Boroske
Andrew P. Harmsworth Esq. <dna...@ni.edam.maps> wrote:
> In article <36018971...@dial.pipex.com>, Paul Stewart
> <tg...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
> > Okay, we've been let down by Acorn.
>
> This was my impression at first. But the facts are all there - users let
> Acorn down. You cannot expect a new machine to launch if few people want to
> buy it.
The question is, why didn't Acorn develop a machine that more users
wanted ? Not enough money for development, whatever ...
> Last I heard, numbers were as low as 200 reserved - that would have
> generated little profit, if at all, and they could not have even thought of
> producing that few.
Come on - after so little time, and without anyone knowing the exact
spec of Phoebe, let alone performance ? No, now we know they were
essentially broke and just couldn't finance it. Do you think 4000
people each doing a deposit of 500 pounds (= 2 million) are a realistic
figure ? How many reserved the SA card, which surely was the ultimate
product (relatively cheap, and with a great speedup) ? And
how many more bought it in the end, without deposit (me for example) ?
Stephen Burke
> running. We get told that we are now unemployed and all you lot can do is
> *bitch* and *moan* that we did not immediatly go onto the newsgroups and
> the WWW pages to tell you!!
The moaning is at the senior management who fired you, I can't imagine anyone
would expect people who'd just been made unemployed to make announcements.
> How many news items have YOU read from people complaining that Phoebe was
> too poor a spec? TOO DAMN MANY!
The spec and price have to be good enough to attract customers; if a lot
of people thought the spec wasn't good enough then it *wasn't* good enough.
Companies are suposed to listen to their customers, not expect them to take
whatever they're given.
(BTW, I do sympathise with the people who've lost their jobs; I'm also
being made redundant, albeit with a bit more warning, so I do have some
idea what it feels like.)
--
e----><----p | Stephen Burke | E-mail: (anti-junk mail version)
H H 1 | Gruppe FH1T (Lancaster) | stephen.burke@
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Keith Hall
David DCLXVI/M <DA...@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
> This 'two and a half years fighting' was not apparent to us. A few
> months ago, we were cheered by the news that Acorn was recruiting.
> Shortly after, we fell into a temporary slough of despond over the
> restructuring - but Chris Cox seemed well in control of the workstation
> division, Phoebe seemed on course.
Yeah, in fact I was only reading last week a section in 'Channel
Connect' Sep/Oct 98 (a new newsletter for dealers/developers) which was
entitled 'Acorn's Vision for the Future' ...
"Initial worries over the Acorn senior management changes in June have
now passed, thanks to a strong, positive statement* from Chris Cox in
July of this year. The statement which appeared in the Acorn press and
on the Acorn and Clan website, underlined that these changes were simply
the next step in Acorn's strategy of focussing on key technology
development and the embodiment of this in its products.
"With the changes having no effect on existing product plans such as
Phoebe and network computers, Chris's key message to Acorn enthusiasts
and the world at large is:
"Rest assured Acorn's future is looking brighter than ever!"
* For a full version of this statement, visit the news area on the Acorn
website.
<end quote>
'no effect' ?? what!
I have forwarded a copy of this full statement (as is on Acorn website)
to Mr. Boland with a message saying 'Comments please.' - I haven't heard
anything (as probably expected).
I also asked Lindsay at Midnight Communications (Acorn's PR agency) and
she was as shocked as myself - she only heard of it via the statement
given to the press too, which is pretty disgusting considering Midnight
is Acorn's PR agency.
<speculation>
Perhaps the ('working') IOMD2 had a fairly big problem that would have
cost 'too much' to fix and hence the Workstations division got turned
down (gigantic understatement) when requesting more funds for the
project.
I don't know what to think now... Apart from a deep sick feeling inside.
It's a terrible shock to all concerned and I have every sympathy for
those who have taken the worst blows.
:-(((
I really thought Acorn had it right with Phoebe - with PCI connectivity
etc., and the new marketing strategies - I think it would have
reached into further markets than just home/enthusiast/education too...
I just hope that something can be done to pick up any of the pieces and
try to keep some sort of RiscOS desktop PC alive in some way.
What's happening with Gallileo?
Keith.
--
+--------------+----------------------------------+--------------------------+
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+--------------+----------------------------------+--------------------------+
| Author of ArmBBS, sysop of The Plasma Sphere BBS, +44 1925 757920 / 757921 |
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
dgs
Keith Hall <ke...@tpsphere.demon.co.uk> wrote:
...
> Perhaps the ('working') IOMD2 had a fairly big problem that would have
> cost 'too much' to fix
Not the case.
[snip]
Manchester Acorn User Group - http://www.acorn.manchester.ac.uk/
RPC x86 Card Info Pages - http://acorn.cybervillage.co.uk/pccard/
Greg Hennessy
Banks) wrote:
> That said. Greg really doesn't have much in the way of charm. But then
>anyone observing his posts in the past will have noticed that.
You're too kind :-)
greg
Greg Hennessy
<dmd...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>Facking Bilderbergers - they screw-up everything....
:-)
greg
Eduard Pfarr
<6trvs0$thj$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com> folgendes:
Hallo,
[..]
> I have personally been reading the newsgroups for nearly 3 months on and
> off and all I see in these groups is doom and gloom. Any opportunity to
> knock Acorn and it's taken.
Negative things tend to move people more than positive things,
unfortunately! Look at the press, TV, etc - it's usually always the same
negative procedure.
Behind this the majority of silent satisfied readers and users is there.
Really I wished those would speak/write more often but simply they don't
(including me).
[..]
> Clan member phoning up complaining that the Clan magazine was too shiney!!
> Clan member phoning up complaing they do not get a disocunt on their RPC
> purchase.
>
> WAKE UP!!!! For £15 LIFETIME MEMBERSHIP, you have helped push Acorn into
> the descision of closing the Products business...
IMHO it's not us Clan member's fault if Acorn didn't want us to pay £15 (or
whatever sum) per year. Many of my friends and me where happy Clan members
all over the years and never complained on anything. We've just stayed
loyal to Acorn for about a decade now and would continue to do so if we
could.
Still it has to be said it's always been a nightmare to be an Acorn
customer outside Great Britain. (Acorn have never managed to address the
Continent; a very sad fact, thinking about the big potential here/there)
> [..] From a Very disappointed ex Acorn employee who fought hard for you
Thank you. Be assured many Acorn users fought hard for Acorn all over the
years. It's been not easy at all to compete with the Wintel lemmings all
over the place.
> and feels very let down by this community!
The usenet people aren't _the_ Acorn user community. Usually you'll just
meet the loudest. :-)
See you in the Linux and Java world, maybe... (Strong-) ARM powered.
Cheers,
Eduard.
--
W3-Seite des Monats: http://www.javalobby.org
Paul L. Allen
David DCLXVI/M <DA...@zetnet.co.uk> writes:
> Support Acorn? I did until 5.10 this afternoon when I found out. Funny,
> I thought Acorn wasn't just a hardware/software pusher like you know
> who & who. I thought Acorn supported its user base - Clan, Bondar and
> Cox visiting the user groups and rallying the troops. Well, Acorn
> certainly crapped all over us without a second thought - but then, they
> did a similar thing to the dealers a while back, didn't they? - and
> then followed it up by crapping all over the CoTs.
They also crapped all over those foolish enough to buy Acorn kit for
commercial presswork. They decided the market wasn't profitable enough
and just pulled out leaving those who'd bought Acorn kit for the purpose
with nowhere to go when they needed new features in the software. Acorn
do seem to have a track record of shitting all over some of their best
supporters, then wondering why their market keeps shrinking...
--Paul
Tony Houghton
> In article <36018971...@dial.pipex.com>,
> Paul Stewart <tg...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>
> > Regards Paul Stewart.
> > Supporting RISC OS to the end !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> I will NEVER buy a wintel box.
>
> Now I cant get a Phoebe, I will buy either a CATs or an Alpha. (Probably
> CATs, as I like ARM processors. (I wonder if we'll see an FP capable ARM10
> CATS II ?)
Isn't that just cutting off your nose to spite your face? You'll be
running a UNIX flavour, probably Linux, right? That means you won't
need to concern yourself with your CPU's instruction set. I may have a
PC now, and moan about how boring Acorns are, but I have no intention
of learning x86 assembly if I can help it ;-). So, if the instruction
set is irrelevant, ARM really has nothing else going for it in a UNIX
environment. The logically mapped cache(s) makes it slow under
PMT. Its price in quantity may make it good value nonetheless, but
that advantage won't filter down to you, the end user. And did you
know that, ironically, the StrongARM in Corel's Netwinder has
overheating problems?
Linux on x86 is "where it's at". I'm under no illusion that it can
kill Microsoft, but commercial companies are going to start dipping
their toes, and that means binary-only releases. x86 binaries will be
the best supported. Even with the source available, ARM compilers and
libraries are rather behind the x86 versions. There isn't a really
usable version of Netscape for ARM yet AFAIK.
And with a PC you can dual-boot to DOS/Windows to play games ;-).