Acorn back on Intel?

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Guy Inchbald

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May 5, 2006, 1:39:51 PM5/5/06
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John Cartmell

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May 5, 2006, 2:22:44 PM5/5/06
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In article <BCkE2dBn...@efjkhvgf.gd.com>,
Guy Inchbald <g...@efjdolkhvgf.com> wrote:

It depends what you mean by real. Is the company real? It appears so. Are they
connected with the 'real' Acorn Computers Ltd of Cambridge? No reason to
suppose so. Will they be selling real Acorn/RISC OS computers? No. Are they
parasitic on the good name of Acorn in an attempt to sell Windows laptops?

I'm giving their PR person a chance to justify their link to the original
Acorn - other than the name.

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing

goo...@davidglover.org

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May 5, 2006, 3:50:37 PM5/5/06
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John Cartmell wrote:
> It depends what you mean by real. Is the company real? It appears so. Are they
> connected with the 'real' Acorn Computers Ltd of Cambridge? No reason to
> suppose so. Will they be selling real Acorn/RISC OS computers? No. Are they
> parasitic on the good name of Acorn in an attempt to sell Windows laptops?

I can sum up this news with two characters:

:(

Ray Dawson

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May 5, 2006, 5:28:37 PM5/5/06
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John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <BCkE2dBn...@efjkhvgf.gd.com>,
> Guy Inchbald <g...@efjdolkhvgf.com> wrote:
>
> > Is this for real?
> > http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/05/acorn_computers_reborn/
>
> It depends what you mean by real. Is the company real? It appears so.
> Are they connected with the 'real' Acorn Computers Ltd of Cambridge? No
> reason to suppose so. Will they be selling real Acorn/RISC OS computers?
> No. Are they parasitic on the good name of Acorn in an attempt to sell
> Windows laptops?
>

Maybe you're forgetting the Acorn sold PCs - under the Acorn brand -
running Windows before their demise. A lot of RISC OS suppliers also sell
PCs running Windows in order to sustain their livelihoods.

Ray D

John Cartmell

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May 6, 2006, 4:20:21 AM5/6/06
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In article <gemini.iytabo0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,

I'm not forgetting. It's just not relevant to the circumstance or to my
comment. You might suggest that RISC OS suppliers are parasitic on Windows if
they use profit from that source to ensure their RISC OS development
continues. I wouldn't put it that way but - as it's a money-rich monopolistic
version supporting a distinct alternative - I reckon that's a good deal. The
opposite isn't.

Ray Dawson

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May 6, 2006, 4:46:46 AM5/6/06
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John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <gemini.iytabo0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,
> Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > In article <BCkE2dBn...@efjkhvgf.gd.com>,
> > > Guy Inchbald <g...@efjdolkhvgf.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Is this for real?
> > > > http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/05/acorn_computers_reborn/
> > >
> > > It depends what you mean by real. Is the company real? It appears
> > > so. Are they connected with the 'real' Acorn Computers Ltd of
> > > Cambridge? No reason to suppose so. Will they be selling real
> > > Acorn/RISC OS computers? No. Are they parasitic on the good name of
> > > Acorn in an attempt to sell Windows laptops?
> > >
> > Maybe you're forgetting the Acorn sold PCs - under the Acorn brand -
> > running Windows before their demise. A lot of RISC OS suppliers also
> > sell PCs running Windows in order to sustain their livelihoods.
>
> I'm not forgetting. It's just not relevant to the circumstance or to my
> comment.

It's totally relevant. Acorn Computers Ltd sold PCs running Windows in the
past and a new incarnation of the company are doing likewise.

What is wrong with a PC supplier using the Acorn name, as long as they are
using it legitimitely? The puffed up protestations here are laughable and
hypocritical in the extreme. Acorn have long since been a credible name in
the computer marketplace and, if someone wants to revive it, then good
luck to them. Acorn tarnished the name by going bust after not being able
to keep their promises - something which other RISC OS computer suppliers
have mimiced since.

> You might suggest that RISC OS suppliers are parasitic on Windows if
> they use profit from that source to ensure their RISC OS development
> continues. I wouldn't put it that way but - as it's a money-rich
> monopolistic version supporting a distinct alternative - I reckon that's
> a good deal. The opposite isn't.

It could be suggested from your arguement above that SOME RISC OS
suppliers are parasitic on RO users. They sell mainly PCs, with RISC OS
addons for a premium.

Ray D

John Cartmell

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May 6, 2006, 5:34:35 AM5/6/06
to
In article <gemini.iyu5py0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,

Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> > In article <gemini.iytabo0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,
> > Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > > John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > > In article <BCkE2dBn...@efjkhvgf.gd.com>,
> > > > Guy Inchbald <g...@efjdolkhvgf.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Is this for real?
> > > > > http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/05/acorn_computers_reborn/
> > > >
> > > > It depends what you mean by real. Is the company real? It appears
> > > > so. Are they connected with the 'real' Acorn Computers Ltd of
> > > > Cambridge? No reason to suppose so. Will they be selling real
> > > > Acorn/RISC OS computers? No. Are they parasitic on the good name of
> > > > Acorn in an attempt to sell Windows laptops?
> > > >
> > > Maybe you're forgetting the Acorn sold PCs - under the Acorn brand -
> > > running Windows before their demise. A lot of RISC OS suppliers also
> > > sell PCs running Windows in order to sustain their livelihoods.
> >
> > I'm not forgetting. It's just not relevant to the circumstance or to my
> > comment.

> It's totally relevant. Acorn Computers Ltd sold PCs running Windows in the
> past and a new incarnation of the company are doing likewise.

No they are not. Your comment ignores those involved in cutting edge
development at Acorn - Sophie Wilson, Steve Furber, et al - and as such it is
grossly insulting. Acorn produced (but didn't sell many) PCs *in addition to*
their original development work. The new incarnation is doing none of that and
your pretence that they are is a slap in the face for every single one of
those people at Acorn, Pace, ARM, and working on RISC OS post Acorn.

> What is wrong with a PC supplier using the Acorn name, as long as they are
> using it legitimitely?

Nothing. Unless they happen to be spuriously trading on a reputation that they
don't deserve and misleading customers into believing that they are heirs to
the development of Acorn Computers in addition to simply using the same name.

> The puffed up protestations here are laughable and hypocritical in the
> extreme. Acorn have long since been a credible name in the computer
> marketplace and, if someone wants to revive it, then good luck to them.

Not if they tarnish the old name.

> Acorn tarnished the name by going bust after not being able to keep their
> promises - something which other RISC OS computer suppliers have mimiced
> since.

Idiot. No company goes bust with the bits being worth many millions more than
the original and going on to outperform all their competitors. Acorn did *not*
go bust and your comment shows the depth of your ignorance.

> > You might suggest that RISC OS suppliers are parasitic on Windows if
> > they use profit from that source to ensure their RISC OS development
> > continues. I wouldn't put it that way but - as it's a money-rich
> > monopolistic version supporting a distinct alternative - I reckon that's
> > a good deal. The opposite isn't.

> It could be suggested from your arguement above that SOME RISC OS
> suppliers are parasitic on RO users. They sell mainly PCs, with RISC OS
> addons for a premium.

That describes no RISC OS company. You would need quite a twisted mind to
produce that idea from my original comment. No-one deals in the RISC OS area
because they reckon it's an easy market in which to make money.

Guy Inchbald

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May 6, 2006, 7:01:31 AM5/6/06
to
On Sat, 6 May 2006 09:46:46, Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>
wrote:
>John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In article <gemini.iytabo0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,
>> Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> > John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > > In article <BCkE2dBn...@efjkhvgf.gd.com>,
>> > > Guy Inchbald <g...@efjdolkhvgf.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Is this for real?
>> > > > http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/05/acorn_computers_reborn/
>> > >
>> > > It depends what you mean by real. Is the company real? It appears
>> > > so. Are they connected with the 'real' Acorn Computers Ltd of
>> > > Cambridge? No reason to suppose so. Will they be selling real
>> > > Acorn/RISC OS computers? No. Are they parasitic on the good name of
>> > > Acorn in an attempt to sell Windows laptops?
>> > >
>> > Maybe you're forgetting the Acorn sold PCs - under the Acorn brand -
>> > running Windows before their demise. A lot of RISC OS suppliers also
>> > sell PCs running Windows in order to sustain their livelihoods.
>>
>> I'm not forgetting. It's just not relevant to the circumstance or to my
>> comment.
>
>It's totally relevant. Acorn Computers Ltd sold PCs running Windows in the
>past and a new incarnation of the company are doing likewise.

H'mm. Were the original Acorn "parasitic" on their good name when they
sold own-brand Windows PCs?

I suppose it's a fine line between resurrecting a company name and
trading on the history of its brand identity.


>What is wrong with a PC supplier using the Acorn name, as long as they are
>using it legitimitely? The puffed up protestations here are laughable and
>hypocritical in the extreme. Acorn have long since been a credible name in
>the computer marketplace and, if someone wants to revive it, then good
>luck to them. Acorn tarnished the name by going bust after not being able
>to keep their promises - something which other RISC OS computer suppliers
>have mimiced since.

Have to agree about some "puffed-up" comments. Asking the new "Acorn" to
mend a beeb micro is like asking BT to fix a dial-phone once supplied by
the Post Office.

But this is c.s.a - passion is more important than rationality.


>> You might suggest that RISC OS suppliers are parasitic on Windows if
>> they use profit from that source to ensure their RISC OS development
>> continues. I wouldn't put it that way but - as it's a money-rich
>> monopolistic version supporting a distinct alternative - I reckon that's
>> a good deal. The opposite isn't.
>
>It could be suggested from your arguement above that SOME RISC OS
>suppliers are parasitic on RO users. They sell mainly PCs, with RISC OS
>addons for a premium.

By that argument every pay-for product is parasitic on its consumers.
Last time I heard that, it was from an ardent Communist and fellow
student ca. 1974 - long before Acorn.

--
Cheers,
Guy

Ray Dawson

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May 6, 2006, 7:06:02 AM5/6/06
to
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>
> > The puffed up protestations here are laughable and hypocritical in the
> > extreme. Acorn have long since been a credible name in the computer
> > marketplace and, if someone wants to revive it, then good luck to
> > them.
>
> Not if they tarnish the old name.
>
> > Acorn tarnished the name by going bust after not being able to keep
> > their promises - something which other RISC OS computer suppliers have
> > mimiced since.
>
> Idiot.

Ah, is that because I disagree with you?

> No company goes bust with the bits being worth many millions more
> than the original and going on to outperform all their competitors.
> Acorn did *not* go bust and your comment shows the depth of your
> ignorance.

If Acorn were outperforming their competitors, then it's a mystery to me
why they couldn't survive and went bust.

The term 'went bust' means they were no longer able to trade viably.

Stan Whatsit and the rest of the Acorn hierarchy asset stripped the
company - taking the money themselves and dumping all those Acorn fans
waiting to see the next brainchild come to fruition. Of course, Acorn knew
long beforehand that it wasn't going to happen but neglected telling the
great unwashed in case it affected the sale of the bits that they were
going to personally profit from.

Now THAT is what I call tarnishing the name.

But, presumably - as it was done by your heroes - it's OK.

> > > You might suggest that RISC OS suppliers are parasitic on Windows if
> > > they use profit from that source to ensure their RISC OS development
> > > continues. I wouldn't put it that way but - as it's a money-rich
> > > monopolistic version supporting a distinct alternative - I reckon
> > > that's a good deal. The opposite isn't.
>
> > It could be suggested from your arguement above that SOME RISC OS
> > suppliers are parasitic on RO users. They sell mainly PCs, with RISC
> > OS addons for a premium.
>
> That describes no RISC OS company. You would need quite a twisted mind
> to produce that idea from my original comment. No-one deals in the RISC
> OS area because they reckon it's an easy market in which to make money.

I would suggest that there are those who deal in the RISC OS market
because they know they have a bunch of suckers who will pay anything as
long as they are duped into thinking they are funding development of their
beloved OS.

Grow up and get real.

By the way - have you gone bust? Or are you still producing your annual
magazine?

Ray D

Ams

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May 6, 2006, 9:30:44 AM5/6/06
to
John Cartmell wrote:
> In article <gemini.iytabo0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,
> Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

> > Maybe you're forgetting the Acorn sold PCs - under the Acorn brand -
> > running Windows before their demise. A lot of RISC OS suppliers also sell
> > PCs running Windows in order to sustain their livelihoods.
>
> I'm not forgetting. It's just not relevant to the circumstance or to my
> comment. You might suggest that RISC OS suppliers are parasitic on Windows if
> they use profit from that source to ensure their RISC OS development
> continues. I wouldn't put it that way but - as it's a money-rich monopolistic
> version supporting a distinct alternative - I reckon that's a good deal. The
> opposite isn't.

If they think they're "helping" RISC OS by moving people to using
PC/ARM Emulation than I'd argue they're helpfully putting another nail
in RISC OS's coffin. People who've moved to emulation (for the most
part) switch completely to windows - afterall why fire up VARPC and
run Techwriter when you can just click on "MS OFFICE" on the windows
desktop ?

Just look at the drobe survey - for all the 3,000 licensees of VA/VRPC
very few responded. If they had they'd have outnumbered all other
classifications of RISC OS users - as that didn't happen it would
suggest they have (for the most part) left the platform but gave one
last "financial injection" into VA/ROL's coffers before they left never
to return. You might consider that a good thing - but I consider it
futile and overall a bad thing. The longterm survival of the platform
requires longterm thinking - not short term stuff intended to address
todays "cash flow".

As to the question in point when Ollivetti took over Acorn in (I
believe) 1985 Acorn briefly sold re-badged Ollivetti PC's and Ollivetti
(for their part) sold Master Compacts in Italy. I'd imagine that any
current use of the Acorn name or Logo might be a problem if an explicit
license was not granted for this (now hmmmmm I wonder who owns
that....)

Regards

Annraoi

John Cartmell

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May 6, 2006, 7:57:13 AM5/6/06
to
In article <gemini.iyuc610...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,

Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> >
> > > The puffed up protestations here are laughable and hypocritical in the
> > > extreme. Acorn have long since been a credible name in the computer
> > > marketplace and, if someone wants to revive it, then good luck to
> > > them.
> >
> > Not if they tarnish the old name.
> >
> > > Acorn tarnished the name by going bust after not being able to keep
> > > their promises - something which other RISC OS computer suppliers have
> > > mimiced since.
> >
> > Idiot.

> Ah, is that because I disagree with you?

Just because you are stupidly wrong and haven't learnt by having it explained
to you before.

> > No company goes bust with the bits being worth many millions more
> > than the original and going on to outperform all their competitors.
> > Acorn did *not* go bust and your comment shows the depth of your
> > ignorance.

> If Acorn were outperforming their competitors, then it's a mystery to me
> why they couldn't survive and went bust.

They didn't go bust. Try looking at the performance of ARM Ltd since they were
spun off from Acorn. That's just one of the companies/properties that came out
of the company. Your

> The term 'went bust' means they were no longer able to trade viably.

Which is not what happened.

> Stan Whatsit and the rest of the Acorn hierarchy asset stripped the
> company - taking the money themselves and dumping all those Acorn fans
> waiting to see the next brainchild come to fruition. Of course, Acorn knew
> long beforehand that it wasn't going to happen but neglected telling the
> great unwashed in case it affected the sale of the bits that they were
> going to personally profit from.

The pension investors wanted their money fast. I don't understand that and I
certainly don't like what they did. That doesn't mean that you can or should
lie about what happened and 'went bust' is a lie that was profitably used by
PC pushers careless for the truth.

> Now THAT is what I call tarnishing the name.

Repeating 'Acorn went bust' beats it - so you're on the 'bastards' list.

> But, presumably - as it was done by your heroes - it's OK.

Pensions investors that want their money fast were never on my list of heroes;
the developers were. I mentioned Steve Furber - and he made not a penny out of
the sell-off.

> > > > You might suggest that RISC OS suppliers are parasitic on Windows if
> > > > they use profit from that source to ensure their RISC OS development
> > > > continues. I wouldn't put it that way but - as it's a money-rich
> > > > monopolistic version supporting a distinct alternative - I reckon
> > > > that's a good deal. The opposite isn't.
> >
> > > It could be suggested from your arguement above that SOME RISC OS
> > > suppliers are parasitic on RO users. They sell mainly PCs, with RISC
> > > OS addons for a premium.
> >
> > That describes no RISC OS company. You would need quite a twisted mind
> > to produce that idea from my original comment. No-one deals in the RISC
> > OS area because they reckon it's an easy market in which to make money.

> I would suggest that there are those who deal in the RISC OS market
> because they know they have a bunch of suckers who will pay anything as
> long as they are duped into thinking they are funding development of their
> beloved OS.

Please remove yourself to a Windows newsgroup and content yourself with
abusing marketing moguls who deserve such abuse.

[Snip]

John Cartmell

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May 6, 2006, 12:55:35 PM5/6/06
to
In article <1146922243.9...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Ams

<a...@globalcafe.ie> wrote:
> People who've moved to emulation (for the most part) switch completely to
> windows

Apart from those ex-Acorn users who buy an emulated version then move to
buying a new native RISC OS machine?

> - afterall why fire up VARPC and run Techwriter when you can just click on
> "MS OFFICE" on the windows desktop ?

If you cannot find the answer to that question I wonder why you are still
interested in RISC OS. Most people around here find the answer very easy.

Better, of course, to then add a real RISC OS machine to your network - and
hey - we have a choice of new ones available! ;-)

Ray Dawson

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May 6, 2006, 1:20:30 PM5/6/06
to
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>
> > I would suggest that there are those who deal in the RISC OS market
> > because they know they have a bunch of suckers who will pay anything
> > as long as they are duped into thinking they are funding development
> > of their beloved OS.
>
> Please remove yourself to a Windows newsgroup and content yourself with
> abusing marketing moguls who deserve such abuse.
>

I can honestly say that I have never been ripped off by a Windows
'marketing mogul'.

I have, however, been ripped off by several RISC OS 'marketing moguls'.
As, I suspect, have many contributors to this newsgroup.

The ONLY time I had a debit card transaction fraudulently made was by a
RISC OS trader - who has since ripped off many other RISC OS users before
disappearing into the sunset. Last heard of, they were being sought by the
court bailiffs.

There are also many good and honest RISC OS traders - as there are Windows
ones. It's just that the proportion of dishonest ones is weighted on the
RISC OS side. I am now very careful who I deal with in RISC OS land - and
particularly who I might buy a magazine from.

Ray D

John Campbell Rees

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May 6, 2006, 1:42:25 PM5/6/06
to
During the course of this discussion, John Cartmell
<jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>,
in message <4e22b44...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>Acorn did *not* go bust and your comment shows the depth of your ignorance.
>

Very true. The original Acorn had its assets stripped by City
parasites. One of those asset was the name and the badge, and it
surprises me that this sort of thing has not happened years ago.
--
"Like shooting flies with a laser cannon, the aims a bit tricky, but
it certainly deals with the flies." - Lord Miles Vorkosigan.
From "Komarr" by Lois McMaster Bujold
To read my Web Log visit http://www.gardd-lelog.org.uk

John Cartmell

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May 6, 2006, 3:17:19 PM5/6/06
to
In article <86eae02...@arce81.dsl.pipex.co.uk>, John Campbell Rees

<jw...@gardd-lelog.org.uk> wrote:
> During the course of this discussion, John Cartmell
> <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, in message
> <4e22b44...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> >Acorn did *not* go bust and your comment shows the depth of your ignorance.
> >
> Very true. The original Acorn had its assets stripped by City parasites.
> One of those asset was the name and the badge, and it surprises me that
> this sort of thing has not happened years ago.

But AFAIK the name was simply let go to be picked up at no cost and the
'badge' is not being used - note that the new company uses the name Acorn in a
different font from the original ACL and the Acorn picture is coloured
differently. In certain aspects of the law (as opposed to public reaction)
these things matter.

Ray Dawson

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May 6, 2006, 5:59:58 PM5/6/06
to
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <86eae02...@arce81.dsl.pipex.co.uk>, John Campbell Rees
> <jw...@gardd-lelog.org.uk> wrote:
> > During the course of this discussion, John Cartmell
> > <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, in message
> > <4e22b44...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > Acorn did *not* go bust and your comment shows the depth of your
> > > ignorance.
> > >
> > Very true. The original Acorn had its assets stripped by City
> > parasites. One of those asset was the name and the badge, and it
> > surprises me that this sort of thing has not happened years ago.
>
> But AFAIK the name was simply let go to be picked up at no cost and the
> 'badge' is not being used - note that the new company uses the name
> Acorn in a different font from the original ACL and the Acorn picture is
> coloured differently. In certain aspects of the law (as opposed to
> public reaction) these things matter.
>

So, what's all the fuss about? Why all the pseudo posturing?

Ray D

John Cartmell

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May 6, 2006, 7:19:16 PM5/6/06
to
In article <gemini.iyv6fy0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,

I've no idea. Why not explain your reasons?

Hans Heinsbroek

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May 7, 2006, 6:51:27 AM5/7/06
to
In article <4e22c14...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell

<URL:mailto:jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Please remove yourself to a Windows newsgroup and content yourself with
> abusing marketing moguls who deserve such abuse.
>
You realise that once the sales of these laptops start
this will soon become a windows newsgroup too? :-(

--
jhein...@tip.nl Sent from a Risc PC near me. (RISC OS 4.02)

Jon Ripley

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May 7, 2006, 6:08:08 AM5/7/06
to
Hans Heinsbroek wrote:
> In article <4e22c14...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell
> <URL:mailto:jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> Please remove yourself to a Windows newsgroup and content yourself with
>> abusing marketing moguls who deserve such abuse.
>>
> You realise that once the sales of these laptops start
> this will soon become a windows newsgroup too? :-(

I'm wondering if any pre-existing companies who proudly display that
they are Acorn Authorised will get cease and desist, you are *NOT*
authorised, letters from faux-Acorn telling them to remove any, ahem,
fraudulent claims that they are authorised.

Jon
--

Simon Challands

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May 7, 2006, 6:28:49 AM5/7/06
to
In message <1146922243.9...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
"Ams" <a...@globalcafe.ie> wrote:

> John Cartmell wrote:
> > In article <gemini.iytabo0...@magray.freeserve.co.uk>,
> > Ray Dawson <r...@magray.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > > John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > > Maybe you're forgetting the Acorn sold PCs - under the Acorn brand -
> > > running Windows before their demise. A lot of RISC OS suppliers also sell
> > > PCs running Windows in order to sustain their livelihoods.
> >
> > I'm not forgetting. It's just not relevant to the circumstance or to my
> > comment. You might suggest that RISC OS suppliers are parasitic on Windows if
> > they use profit from that source to ensure their RISC OS development
> > continues. I wouldn't put it that way but - as it's a money-rich monopolistic
> > version supporting a distinct alternative - I reckon that's a good deal. The
> > opposite isn't.
>
> If they think they're "helping" RISC OS by moving people to using
> PC/ARM Emulation than I'd argue they're helpfully putting another nail
> in RISC OS's coffin. People who've moved to emulation (for the most
> part) switch completely to windows - afterall why fire up VARPC and
> run Techwriter when you can just click on "MS OFFICE" on the windows
> desktop ?

They won't do that if the RISC OS software is better to use. If it isn't,
then there isn't a lot to defend RISC OS for anyway.

--
Simon Challands

John Cartmell

unread,
May 7, 2006, 6:25:00 AM5/7/06
to
In article <ant0710270b0cx2*@riscpc.my.home>,

Hans Heinsbroek <jhein...@tip.nl> wrote:
> In article <4e22c14...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>, John Cartmell
> <URL:mailto:jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > Please remove yourself to a Windows newsgroup and content yourself with
> > abusing marketing moguls who deserve such abuse.
> >
> You realise that once the sales of these laptops start
> this will soon become a windows newsgroup too? :-(

That's part of the potential confusion that Sultan et al are creating. ;-(

Of course we should welcome their customers that drop by in error and sell
them a real Acorn-style machine. ;-)

beamendsltd

unread,
May 7, 2006, 7:46:03 AM5/7/06
to

But equally, it could just show that many users don't look at Drobe!
However, I'd generally agree with your point.

<snip Olivetti bit>
>
> Regards
>
> Annraoi
>

--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sa...@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
RISC-OS - Where have all the good guys gone?
Boycott the Yorkshire Dales - No Play, No Pay

S G

unread,
May 7, 2006, 9:49:12 AM5/7/06
to
On 7 May Hans Heinsbroek wrote:

> You realise that once the sales of these laptops start
> this will soon become a windows newsgroup too? :-(

What a horrible thought!

--
Stewart Goldwater
http://www.janus.freeserve.co.uk/

Michael Harding

unread,
May 7, 2006, 10:22:43 AM5/7/06
to
In article <562044234e%beame...@btconnect.com>,

[not so much a snip as a scalping]

> > Just look at the drobe survey - for all the 3,000 licensees of VA/VRPC
> > very few responded. If they had they'd have outnumbered all other
> > classifications of RISC OS users - as that didn't happen it would
> > suggest they have (for the most part) left the platform but gave one
> > last "financial injection" into VA/ROL's coffers before they left never
> > to return. You might consider that a good thing - but I consider it
> > futile and overall a bad thing. The longterm survival of the platform
> > requires longterm thinking - not short term stuff intended to address
> > todays "cash flow".
> >

> But equally, it could just show that many users don't look at Drobe!
> However, I'd generally agree with your point.

At the risk of sounding like a judge - who or what is Drobe?

I now have a Kinetic RPC, successor to a SARPC, successor to an
Archimedes, successor to a Master, successor to a BBC B - and also
VRPC nowadays as a backup. A very long-term user, an investor in Acorn
and now therefore in ARM and Pace, yet unaware of any survey.

Michael Harding

--
Rev. Preb. M. D. Harding mdha...@ormail.co.uk

Dr Peter Young

unread,
May 7, 2006, 10:49:59 AM5/7/06
to

www.drobe.co.uk Easier to look at it than to explain :-)

They also have a RSS feed.

With best wishes,

Peter.

--
Peter \ / \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
Anne \ / __ __ \ England.
and / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
family / \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pny...@ormail.co.uk.

Stuart

unread,
May 7, 2006, 10:52:59 AM5/7/06
to
> But equally, it could just show that many users don't look at Drobe!

Me for a start

--
Stuart Winsor

From is valid but subject to change without notice if it gets spammed.

For Barn dances and folk evenings in the Coventry and Warwickshire area
See: http://www.barndance.org.uk

diodesign

unread,
May 7, 2006, 11:31:40 AM5/7/06
to
Hi,

Michael Harding wrote:
> In article <562044234e%beame...@btconnect.com>,
> beamendsltd <beame...@btconnect.com> wrote:
> > In message <1146922243.9...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>
> > "Ams" <a...@globalcafe.ie> wrote:
>
> [not so much a snip as a scalping]
>
> > > Just look at the drobe survey - for all the 3,000 licensees of VA/VRPC
> > > very few responded.

[....]

> > But equally, it could just show that many users don't look at Drobe!
> > However, I'd generally agree with your point.
>
> At the risk of sounding like a judge - who or what is Drobe?

We're a online 'newspaper' for Acorn and RISC OS users, and people
curious enough to follow developments of our platform. We're updated
through out the week with articles you won't find elsewhere, and you
can discuss news with other readers: http://www.drobe.co.uk/

HTH,

Chris / drobe.co.uk

diodesign

unread,
May 7, 2006, 11:34:50 AM5/7/06
to
Hi,

Stuart wrote:
> In article <562044234e%beame...@btconnect.com>,
> beamendsltd <beame...@btconnect.com> wrote:
> > But equally, it could just show that many users don't look at Drobe!
>
> Me for a start

Quite a few other people do, and everyone's welcome. We won't charge
you a penny to take a look :)

Chris / http://www.drobe.co.uk/

VinceH

unread,
May 7, 2006, 11:35:49 AM5/7/06
to
On 6 May 2006, Ray Dawson wrote:
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[...]



> There are also many good and honest RISC OS traders - as there
> are Windows ones. It's just that the proportion of dishonest
> ones is weighted on the RISC OS side.

In your experience. Just because *you personally* have alledgedly
encountered a larger number of dishonest traders in the RISC OS
market than in the Windows market, it doesn't mean there is a
higher proportion in this market - only that you're somehow a
magnet for them. (Or maybe you're just a troublesome customer, who
kicks off and claims 'fraud' when things don't go smoothly).

--
VinceH - http://www.softrock.co.uk/info/vinceh.html

Michael Harding

unread,
May 7, 2006, 12:09:21 PM5/7/06
to
In article <1147015900....@g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
diodesign <diod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,

> [....]

What a great discovery for me. Many thanks.

Steve Potts

unread,
May 7, 2006, 12:52:59 PM5/7/06
to
In message <562044234e%beame...@btconnect.com>
beamendsltd <beame...@btconnect.com> wrote:

[snip]


> >
> > Just look at the drobe survey - for all the 3,000 licensees of VA/VRPC
> > very few responded. If they had they'd have outnumbered all other
> > classifications of RISC OS users - as that didn't happen it would
> > suggest they have (for the most part) left the platform but gave one
> > last "financial injection" into VA/ROL's coffers before they left never
> > to return. You might consider that a good thing - but I consider it
> > futile and overall a bad thing. The longterm survival of the platform
> > requires longterm thinking - not short term stuff intended to address
> > todays "cash flow".
> >
>
> But equally, it could just show that many users don't look at Drobe!
> However, I'd generally agree with your point.
>

Or that they *do* look at Drobe, but have never bothered to respond to
surveys. To state the obvious - surveys never say anything about the people
that have not taken part. You could argue that only a certain demographic
respond to surveys.

[snip]


--
StevePotts at blastzone DOT demon STOP co DOT uk (www.blastzone.demon.co.uk/)
Written on RISC OS.
http://www.riscos.com/

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***

Chris Joseph

unread,
May 7, 2006, 2:48:58 PM5/7/06
to

Ams <a...@globalcafe.ie> wrote:

>If they think they're "helping" RISC OS by moving people to using
>PC/ARM Emulation than I'd argue they're helpfully putting another nail
>in RISC OS's coffin. People who've moved to emulation (for the most
>part) switch completely to windows - afterall why fire up VARPC and
>run Techwriter when you can just click on "MS OFFICE" on the windows
>desktop ?

Well, the obvious two reasons (from my point of view, anyway) are:

1) My SARPC (I don't have VA) boots up in less time than my 'doze box
(Athlon 2600+) takes to load Word, so it's entirely plausible that
VA plus [DTP package of choice] will also be quicker.

2) MS office sucks. For plain text, or minimally formatted documents,
Word is just about OK. But why are people still spending money on
software where WYS-looks-nothing-like-WYG, when there was perfectly
good genuine WYSIWYG (and not just for RISC OS) available fifteen
years ago? And that's a minor point compared to the fact Word goes
out of its way to make life hard for the user; anything remotely
sophisticated takes me two to three times as long as it would using
Impression or Ovation Pro (and most of the 'doze users I've worked
with have been in mild awe of the speed with which I produce
documents under windows).

Actually,
3) Word simply can't handle the complex style requirements of some
of the things I've done using Ovation Pro. If you want to be able
to do them, you have to fork out for MS publisher (or similar)....

Chris.

Adam

unread,
May 7, 2006, 3:05:31 PM5/7/06
to
In message <1146922243.9...@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Ams
wrote:

> If they think they're "helping" RISC OS by moving people to using
> PC/ARM Emulation than I'd argue they're helpfully putting another nail
> in RISC OS's coffin. People who've moved to emulation (for the most
> part) switch completely to windows - afterall why fire up VARPC and
> run Techwriter when you can just click on "MS OFFICE" on the windows
> desktop ?

This is a ludicrous argument which has been round and round before, but
hey, let's have another go at it now ;-)

If you think that people won't "bother" to load VRPC, then presumably
that's because you believe that the Windows alternatives are better? (Or,
at least, that the difference between the two is so small that it's not
worth the 15 seconds of someone's time - which begs the question: why did
they fork out well over £100 to buy VRPC in the first place)? If Windows
apps are better than RISC OS ones, that's hardly the fault of VA.


> Just look at the drobe survey

Um, no. People shouldn't draw any conclusions at all from drobe surveys!

Adam

--
Adam Richardson Carpe Diem
http://www.snowstone.org.uk/riscos/

Ray Dawson

unread,
May 7, 2006, 5:05:36 PM5/7/06
to
Chris Joseph <chr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> 3) Word simply can't handle the complex style requirements of some
> of the things I've done using Ovation Pro. If you want to be able
> to do them, you have to fork out for MS publisher (or similar)....
>

Or Ovation Pro for Windows.

Ray D

Stuart

unread,
May 7, 2006, 5:16:44 PM5/7/06
to
In article <1147016090.4...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com>,
diodesign <diod...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,

Oh I know it exists and I've looked occasionally when someone has posted a
reference to some article or other, it's just that I don't go off looking
at it in the normal course of events.

John Cartmell

unread,
May 7, 2006, 5:41:17 PM5/7/06
to
In article <gemini.iywjbp0...@softrock.co.uk>,

I'd appreciate recognition that none of my words were retained in your
otherwise reasonable attack on RD. ;-(

Ben Shimmin

unread,
May 7, 2006, 6:55:47 PM5/7/06
to
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>:

> In article <gemini.iywjbp0...@softrock.co.uk>,
> VinceH <sp...@softrock.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 6 May 2006, Ray Dawson wrote:
>> > John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>>
>> > There are also many good and honest RISC OS traders - as there
>> > are Windows ones. It's just that the proportion of dishonest
>> > ones is weighted on the RISC OS side.
>
>> In your experience. Just because *you personally* have alledgedly
>> encountered a larger number of dishonest traders in the RISC OS
>> market than in the Windows market, it doesn't mean there is a
>> higher proportion in this market - only that you're somehow a
>> magnet for them. (Or maybe you're just a troublesome customer, who
>> kicks off and claims 'fraud' when things don't go smoothly).
>
> I'd appreciate recognition that none of my words were retained in your
> otherwise reasonable attack on RD. ;-(

Just when you think you've seen it all... John Cartmell complaining about
someone else's quoting!

b.

--
<b...@bas.me.uk> <URL:http://bas.me.uk/>
`We first met through a shared view.
She loved me, and I did too.'
-- Mike Skinner

VinceH

unread,
May 8, 2006, 3:25:37 AM5/8/06
to
On 7 May 2006, John Cartmell wrote:
> In article <gemini.iywjbp0...@softrock.co.uk>,
> VinceH <sp...@softrock.co.uk> wrote:

> I'd appreciate recognition that none of my words were retained
> in your otherwise reasonable attack on RD. ;-(

I fail to see how it really matters, but I really can't be arsed
to argue, so: I hereby declare under solemn oath (with my left
hand on PRM3 and my right hand held up - I'm typing with my nose)
that none of your words retained in my reply to Ray.

Tarquin Mills

unread,
May 8, 2006, 5:42:08 AM5/8/06
to
In message <BCkE2dBn...@efjkhvgf.gd.com>
Guy Inchbald <g...@efjdolkhvgf.com> wrote:
> Is this for real?
> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/05/acorn_computers_reborn/

According to
<http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=2378532>

A company called Quantum Microponents Ltd, based at J4 Technology Park,
M58 Corridor, Skelmersdale, West Lancs, WN8 9TQ were refused the Acorn
trademark for notebooks, laptops and computer hardware, last year. I
notice nearly all E14 trademarks have either runout or been challenged and
revoked, they probably did not defend them. Mr Shahid Sultan works for
GlobalComm, a PC company based in Nottingham, in existence since 1997,
GlobalComm are mentioned on the Whois information for acorncomputer.co.uk.
The cheapo 123-Reg name register service was used, with 1 & 1 providing
web,mail and name servers. The website is run on IIS and the directory
http://www.acorncomputer.co.uk/email_template/ is accessible which has
a graphic for a business card.

--
http://www.windowshaters.co.uk
Start an investigation into Microsoft http://www.petitiononline.com/oftsucks/
Reboot Movement (An Anti-Wintel Campaign)
http://www.speccyverse.me.uk/comp/reboot/

Tarquin Mills

unread,
May 8, 2006, 8:34:47 AM5/8/06
to
In message <de7abc23...@localhost.local>

Tarquin Mills <per...@use.net> wrote:
> In message <BCkE2dBn...@efjkhvgf.gd.com>
> Guy Inchbald <g...@efjdolkhvgf.com> wrote:
> > Is this for real?
> > http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/05/acorn_computers_reborn/
>
> According to
> <http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=2378532
>
> A company called Quantum Microponents Ltd, based at J4 Technology Park,
> M58 Corridor, Skelmersdale, West Lancs, WN8 9TQ were refused the Acorn
> trademark for notebooks, laptops and computer hardware, last year. I
> notice nearly all E14 trademarks have either runout or been challenged and
> revoked, they probably did not defend them. Mr Shahid Sultan works for
> GlobalComm, a PC company based in Nottingham, in existence since 1997,
> GlobalComm are mentioned on the Whois information for acorncomputer.co.uk.
> The cheapo 123-Reg name register service was used, with 1 & 1 providing
> web,mail and name servers. The website is run on IIS and the directory
> http://www.acorncomputer.co.uk/email_template/ is accessible which has
> a graphic for a business card.

<reddwarf>additional</reddwarf>

I have just phoned 0870-750-6060 Global Comm (UK) Ltd, a person called
"Oliver" answered as "Acorn Computers", he said he had been there only a few
weeks and did not know the answer to most of my questions. He kept asking
if I wanted to be called back by someone else who knew the answers. He did
however claim they were the same company as from the past and own the
Acorn trademark. Their fax number 0871-242-3472 has an answer machine on it,
so I been unable to fax them.

Tarquin Mills

unread,
May 8, 2006, 9:24:57 AM5/8/06
to
In message <4ab5cc23...@localhost.local> Tarquin Mills wrote:
> In message <de7abc23...@localhost.local> Tarquin Mills wrote:

> > In message <BCkE2dBn...@efjkhvgf.gd.com> Guy Inchbald wrote:
> > > Is this for real?
> > > http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/05/acorn_computers_reborn/
> >
> > According to
> >http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=2378532
> >
> > A company called Quantum Microponents Ltd, based at J4 Technology Park,
> > M58 Corridor, Skelmersdale, West Lancs, WN8 9TQ were refused the Acorn
> > trademark for notebooks, laptops and computer hardware, last year. I
> > notice nearly all E14 trademarks have either runout or been challenged
> > and revoked, they probably did not defend them. Mr Shahid Sultan works
> > for GlobalComm, a PC company based in Nottingham, in existence since
> > 1997, GlobalComm are mentioned on the Whois information for
> > acorncomputer.co.uk. The cheapo 123-Reg name register service was used,
> > with 1 & 1 providing web,mail and name servers. The website is run on
> > IIS and the directory http://www.acorncomputer.co.uk/email_template/
> > is accessible which has a graphic for a business card.
>
> <reddwarf>additional</reddwarf>
>
> I have just phoned 0870-750-6060 Global Comm (UK) Ltd, a person called
> "Oliver" answered as "Acorn Computers", he said he had been there only a
> few weeks and did not know the answer to most of my questions. He kept
> asking if I wanted to be called back by someone else who knew the
> answers. He did however claim they were the same company as from the
> past and own the Acorn trademark. Their fax number 0871-242-3472 has an
> answer machine on it, so I been unable to fax them.

Extra!
I have just contacted VNU Exhibitions who are running the Computer Trade
Show and their legal advice is that Mr Sultan has got the right to the
name from a French company in 2005 who bought the name from Acorn (MSDW ?)
in 2003 however they "can only produce computers and other products which
are different from the traditional Acorn model.", ROL and CTL rights
probably cause this. This link
http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=2343001
at the Patent Office show French company Aristide & Co Antiquaire De Marques
filling a registration in 2003 and having it granted in 2005 (warning the
Patent Office website does not run 24/7)

Russell Hafter News

unread,
May 8, 2006, 9:27:05 AM5/8/06
to
In article <4ab5cc23...@localhost.local>, Tarquin
Mills <per...@use.net> wrote:

> Their fax number 0871-242-3472 has an answer machine on
> it, so I been unable to fax them.

and costs 10p per minute to fax.

It is not unknown for firms with these numbers to set their
fax machine to receive at only 4800 or even 2400 bps so that
your fax lasts a long time and they can make extra money out
of the call.

--
Russell

http://www.russell-hafter-holidays.co.uk
Russell Hafter Holidays E-mail to enquiries at our domain
Holiday specialists for Germany, Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic
Tel 01946 861652 Fax 01946 862085

Message has been deleted

John Cartmell

unread,
May 8, 2006, 11:39:19 AM5/8/06
to
In article <5a4cd123...@localhost.local>,

Tarquin Mills <per...@use.net> wrote:
> I have just contacted VNU Exhibitions who are running the Computer Trade
> Show and their legal advice is that Mr Sultan has got the right to the
> name from a French company in 2005 who bought the name from Acorn (MSDW ?)
> in 2003 however they "can only produce computers and other products which
> are different from the traditional Acorn model.", ROL and CTL rights
> probably cause this.

My reading of this is different. I don't think the French company purchased
the trademark (the word "Acorn" in certain contexts) from anyone - so the link
to the original Acorn doesn't exist - and the restriction is to the trademark
which must avoid copying already existing uses of the word Acorn.

druck

unread,
May 8, 2006, 12:51:53 PM5/8/06
to
On 8 May 2006 Tarquin Mills <per...@use.net> wrote:
> He did however claim they were the same company as from the past.

Clearly a fraudulent statement, and grounds to issue an injunction against
them.

---druck

--
The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/
The 32bit Conversions Page - http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/druck/

Chris Ward

unread,
May 8, 2006, 12:11:41 PM5/8/06
to
Please find below response to my email....


Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 09:54:30 +0100
From: Anthony Hull <Anthon...@vnuexhibitions.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Acorn Computers
To: chrisward...@zetnet.co.uk


Chris

We have already received a number of enquiries regarding the validity of
one of our exhibitor's claims to be Acorn Computers. Certain individuals
have phoned and emailed VNU suggesting that the exhibitor is fraudulently
using the Acorn Computers name. Our lawyers at DMN Legal have investigated
the claim and can confirm that Mr Sultan (owner of the company) bought the
rights to operate under the Acorn Computers name from a French company in
2005 (who had previous bought the name from Acorn in 2003). As such Mr
Sultan is perfectly within his rights to sell products under the name
Acorn. However, he cannot be seen to be affiliated with the Acorn products
and as such should (and is) producing computer products that operate in an
entirely different way.

Essentially it's quite a complicated situation in that several companies
are licensed to manufacture Acorn Computers descended from the computers
produced in the 80s and 90s. However the Acorn exhibiting is allowed to
use the name but can only produce computers and other products which are


different from the traditional Acorn model.

Thanks
Anthony

Chris
--
If Carlsberg made computers, they would say that:

RiscOS technology with ARM chips make:


'.... the best Computer System in the world.... '

John Cartmell

unread,
May 8, 2006, 1:24:51 PM5/8/06
to
In article <18f6e323...@druck.freeuk.net>,

druck <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> On 8 May 2006 Tarquin Mills <per...@use.net> wrote:
> > He did however claim they were the same company as from the past.

> Clearly a fraudulent statement, and grounds to issue an injunction against
> them.

You missed the IANAL bit! ;-)

John Cartmell

unread,
May 8, 2006, 1:47:22 PM5/8/06
to
In article <ant08164...@zetnet.net>,

> Chris

> Thanks
> Anthony

I know that the company were legally advised in this matter so it's surprising
to see so many mistakes in their statement. I hesitate to correct people with
lawyers on tap (!) but simply suggest that no-one takes the 'facts' as
described above to be an adequate description for further discussion.

> Chris

John Williams (News)

unread,
May 8, 2006, 2:00:56 PM5/8/06
to
In article <4e23e90...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>,
John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> > Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 09:54:30 +0100

> > From: Anthony Hull <Anthon...@vnuexhixxxions.co.uk>
> > Subject: RE: Acorn Computers
> > To: chrisward...@xxxnet.co.uk

What happened to the netiquette of not quoting private e-mails?

I expect both the above will experience an increase in spam!

I have altered the addresses quoted so as to not make matters worse!

John

--
John Williams, Wirral, Merseyside, UK - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject
for reliable contact! Who is John Williams? http://www.picindex.info/author/

S.E. & C.B. Pointeer

unread,
May 8, 2006, 2:11:27 PM5/8/06
to
In article <4e23d2b9ccu...@vigay.com>, Paul Vigay

<usenet...@vigay.com> wrote:
>
> In article <5a4cd123...@localhost.local>,
> Tarquin Mills <per...@use.net> wrote:
>
> [Snip]

>
> > I have just contacted VNU Exhibitions who are running the Computer Trade
> > Show and their legal advice is that Mr Sultan has got the right to the
> > name from a French company in 2005 who bought the name from Acorn (MSDW
> > ?) in 2003 however they "can only produce computers and other products
> > which are different from the traditional Acorn model.", ROL and CTL
>
> If they are only producing products which are different from the
> traditional Acorn model, then why are they trying to pass themselves off
> by
> as the old model, re-launched - which their own press release implies?
>
>
The other thing no-one seems to have commented on is that they say that they
will be producing the 12.1in Solo Note, 14.1in Solo Book etc

Solo is the name of ExpLAN's transportable computer for the Third World.

I realise that I've not heard anything about that for a year or so, but it
is still and interesting choice of name for the "new" Acorn I think.

Sharon


--
_ _________________________________________
/ \._._ |_ _ _ /' Orpheus Internet Services
\_/| |_)| |(/_|_|_> / 'Internet for Everyone'
_______ | ___________./ http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk


Adam

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May 8, 2006, 3:17:33 PM5/8/06
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In message <4e23ea8c...@tiscali.co.uk>, John Williams (News) wrote:

> In article <4e23e90...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>,
> John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > Date: Mon, 8 May 2006 09:54:30 +0100
> > > From: Anthony Hull <Anthon...@vnuexhixxxions.co.uk>
> > > Subject: RE: Acorn Computers
> > > To: chrisward...@xxxnet.co.uk
>
> What happened to the netiquette of not quoting private e-mails?
>
> I expect both the above will experience an increase in spam!

I doubt it. The email address I set up to test such things last September
<http://tinyurl.com/h9ldu> has received a grand total of 18 spams. I'm sure
there are far more significant/important ways to get an email address
spammed nowadays.

Tarquin Mills

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May 8, 2006, 3:14:31 PM5/8/06
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In message <4e23dd5...@cartmell.demon.co.uk>

John Cartmell <jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <5a4cd123...@localhost.local>,
> Tarquin Mills <per...@use.net> wrote:
> > I have just contacted VNU Exhibitions who are running the Computer Trade
> > Show and their legal advice is that Mr Sultan has got the right to the
> > name from a French company in 2005 who bought the name from Acorn
> > (MSDW ?) in 2003 however they "can only produce computers and other
> > products which are different from the traditional Acorn model.", ROL
> > and CTL rights probably cause this.
>
> My reading of this is different. I don't think the French company purchased
> the trademark (the word "Acorn" in certain contexts) from anyone - so
> the link to the original Acorn doesn't exist - and the restriction is to
> the trademark which must avoid copying already existing uses of the
> word Acorn.

The name Aristide & Co [1] Antiquaire De Marques literally translated
means Aristide & Co antique dealers of marks, in other words they are a
dealer in antique trademarks for companies who want to use a name from the
past. The Atari trademark which was bought by Infogames (also a French
company) is a famous example. They claim to own 120 trademarks including
in the UK, Standard Oil, Vectrex and of course Acorn. The Acorn trademark
covers many areas including computers, printers, microchips, software and
an iTunes style service. On the 16th February "Acorn Computers
Ltd" i.e. Global Comm (UK) Ltd[2] licensed[3] the trademark, while Aristide
& Co are filing at least another application in the Acorn area. Aristide
are in effect trademark cybersquaters, they put an advert in the Trade Mark
Journal (TMJ) which is produced each week and if no one questions them they
get the trademark, as a trademark is lost if not protected.
If 5 years pass without usage a trademark expires 1998+5=2003, but no
one told the Patent Office about the Acorn A7000+ Odyssey. It seems
neither Element 14 (Cabot X) their owner Morgan-Stanley DW or their agent
D. Young & Co took the necessary action. All this time CTL (or others)
could have used the Acorn brand. Copies of the TMJ on the Internet only
go back over the last 12 months which is too recent. A trademark
application costs 200 UKP (+ 50 UKP for each extra section), the amount
Global Comm are paying to Aristide & Co is unknown. The question is can
this trademark decision be overturned and restored to it's proper use?

[1] http://www.aristide.fr
[2] http://www.global-comm.co.uk
[3] Licensing was not legal until the Trademark Act 1994 because quality
might be effected, in this case it has.
--
Tarquin Mills
"What's sensible got to do with it ?
This is usenet - stoke the fire, feed the flames........"
quote on comp.sys.acorn.misc by David Holden (of the APDL)

druck

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May 8, 2006, 3:31:25 PM5/8/06
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On 8 May 2006 S.E. & C.B. Pointeer <poin...@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> The other thing no-one seems to have commented on is that they say that they
> will be producing the 12.1in Solo Note, 14.1in Solo Book etc
>
> Solo is the name of ExpLAN's transportable computer for the Third World.
>
> I realise that I've not heard anything about that for a year or so, but it
> is still and interesting choice of name for the "new" Acorn I think.

As has been mentioned, 'solo' only refers to the single core Intel processors
designed for cheap and nasty systems.

Chris Ward

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May 8, 2006, 3:57:54 PM5/8/06
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In article <4b4cf123...@snowstone.org.uk>, Adam


Stupid mistake from me - thanks JC

Ben Crick

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May 8, 2006, 4:36:07 PM5/8/06
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> Clearly a fraudulent statement, and grounds to issue an injunction
> against them.

You'd be on a hiding to nothing probably. Look what trouble
Apple-Mac and Apple Corps are currently having over the Apple
trademark and logo.

Ben

--
_ __________________________________________


/ \._._ |_ _ _ /' Orpheus Internet Services
\_/| |_)| |(/_|_|_> / 'Internet for Everyone'
_______ | ___________./ http://www.orpheusinternet.co.uk

Revd Ben Crick BA CF <ben....@NOSPAM.argonet.co.uk> ZFC Ta
232 Canterbury Road, Birchington on sea, Kent CT7 9TD (UK)
Acorn RPC700 Kinetic RO4.03 and Castle Iyonix X100 RO 5.06 Ethernet
* Plan ahead. It wasn't raining when Noah built the ark.

Ben Shimmin

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May 8, 2006, 6:20:08 PM5/8/06
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Ben Crick <ben....@argonet.co.uk>:

> In article <18f6e323...@druck.freeuk.net>, druck
> <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
>> Clearly a fraudulent statement, and grounds to issue an injunction
>> against them.

Clearly! Let's not bother with any actual evidence. Just hang the beggars,
I say.

> You'd be on a hiding to nothing probably. Look what trouble
> Apple-Mac and Apple Corps are currently having over the Apple
> trademark and logo.

`were having', you mean. Apple Computer, Inc. (not `Apple-Mac', whoever
they may be) won today. I'm sure it'll start again in a few months, though.

b.

`The argument from design sometimes takes a rather curious form; for instance,
it is argued that rabbits have white tails in order to be easy to shoot. I do
not know how rabbits would view that application.' -- Bertrand Russell

Message has been deleted

Matthew Wightman

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May 9, 2006, 4:27:23 AM5/9/06
to
Tarquin Mills wrote:
>
> The name Aristide & Co [1] Antiquaire De Marques literally translated
> means Aristide & Co antique dealers of marks, in other words they are a
> dealer in antique trademarks for companies who want to use a name from the
> past. The Atari trademark which was bought by Infogames (also a French
> company) is a famous example. They claim to own 120 trademarks including
> in the UK, Standard Oil, Vectrex and of course Acorn. The Acorn trademark
> covers many areas including computers, printers, microchips, software and
> an iTunes style service. On the 16th February "Acorn Computers
> Ltd" i.e. Global Comm (UK) Ltd[2] licensed[3] the trademark, while Aristide
> & Co are filing at least another application in the Acorn area. Aristide
> are in effect trademark cybersquaters, they put an advert in the Trade Mark
> Journal (TMJ) which is produced each week and if no one questions them they
> get the trademark, as a trademark is lost if not protected.

According to the database, their trademark is on the word "Acorn", and
does not include the type of service the 'real' Acorn trademark was
registered for.

( "Printed publications; books, manuals, magazines and periodicals;
printed matter; instructional and teaching materials; all relating to
computers and computer software; all included in Class 16.")

--
Matthew.

Chris Joseph

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May 9, 2006, 6:31:52 AM5/9/06
to

Good point, well made, and my apologies to DP for not mentioning it.
But my point still stands that MS Word can't do it, so you have to buy
something else for the job :)

Chris.

Tarquin Mills

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May 9, 2006, 9:37:34 AM5/9/06
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In message <BCkE2dBn...@efjkhvgf.gd.com>

Today I rang Global Comm (UK) Ltd or Acorn Computers as they prefer to
call themselves, they took my telephone number and said that someone
higher up would ring back on Friday to answer my questions. Half hour
later I received a call, a woman caller asking who I was and what company I
represented, I said my name and asked who was calling. She refused to
answer and asked me again which company I represented, which 'Oliver' had
asked me the day before. I informed her that unless she identified herself
I would end the call, then did so. Then I got a prank call from her about
my website and heard her and a man laughing in the background, with the
man saying, "you did remember to dial 141?". Is this an organisation we
want using the Acorn Computers name, I think not.
I have complained to Nominet about the acorncomputer.co.uk domain but
they said I had to be the proper owner of the Acorn name, so that a
transfer could be made (CTL, Cabot 2 etc), I had asked for the domain
to be suspended.

Message has been deleted

Tarquin Mills

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May 9, 2006, 4:33:11 PM5/9/06