Acorn NC ROMs

Richard Adkins

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99

to

I have had various thoughts crossing my mind about the Acorn NC. Although I
downloaded technical information off the Acorn web site, there is still one
question which I have not found the answer to. Are the NCOS ROMs connected
via the sockets like with Acorn desktop computers? Also is it possible to
connect somehow a floppy drive to one? I believe the SMC control chip is on
the motherboard. If so this would make a great portable box to take to work
and use to do all things PCs cannot do, and make an IT support guys life
much easier!

TTFN
--
Richard Adkins - Using British computer technology with ARM power,
supporting RISC-OS and EPOC.

Tim Howarth

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99

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In message <a5f2316b49%Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk>
Richard Adkins <Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Are the NCOS ROMs connected via the sockets like with Acorn desktop
> computers?

Nope they are surface mounted (assuming you mean the Acorn
NC1/Netchannel/Netproducts variety.

But IIRC you can replace the system ROM via the (PCMCIA ?) ROM socket.

> Also is it possible to connect somehow a floppy drive to one?

Not sure but you can connect a parallel port ZIP drive.

> If so this would make a great portable box

That's what I keep thinking, I'm going to play at getting one to boot
into an Acorn desktop from a parallel EZ Flyer (don't have a ZIP).

Can then be used via projector for public displays.

> and make an IT support guys life much easier!

Take one NC (ensure correct ethernet card) plug into network (having
ensured BOOTP entry) - result one fully functional system with all
network apps etc.

Compared with (last weeks chore).

Take 1 PC with broken HD - someone moved it and I'd guess jogged the
mains connector resulting in a garbage file system.

Create/find boot floppy with correct CD driver.

Boot, make sure have matching Windows 95 CD

Install Windows, tell it about network card.

Network card not functioning, try again with driver install - resources
no conflict, device has yellow "!"

Try agian, give up for now till I remember what I've forgottne.

(I've always fouind installing NT 4 a doddle, 95 is a pain but we have
a couple of machines with it for dodgy software.)

--
___
|im ---- ARM Powered ----

Theo Markettos

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99

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On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Richard Adkins wrote:

> Also is it possible to

> connect somehow a floppy drive to one? I believe the SMC control chip is on
> the motherboard.

Technically, you can set the FDC to drive a floppy drive through the
parallel port by setting a bit in one of the FDC37C665GT chip's config
registers. However, ADFS needs an interrupt off the /INDEX line to detect
a disc spinning which it doesn't get when this is wired through the
parallel port - other than this I got it working on my Risc PC. Whether
the NC has ADFS is also another issue.

However, I have sources to a floppy driver on my WWW site, so if
anyone feels like some work they could be persuaded to drive a parallel
port floppy drive. They work off the floppy generating FIQs, which would
have to be changed, but I've used them on an FDC37C669, so they should
work on an NC.

Theo

--
Theo Markettos at...@cam.ac.uk
Gonville and Caius College theoma...@letterbox.com
Cambridge, UK http://www-stu.cai.cam.ac.uk/~atm26/

Richard Walker

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99

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In message <c6d33c6b49%t...@worthy.demon.co.uk>
Tim Howarth <t...@worthy.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <a5f2316b49%Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk>
> Richard Adkins <Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Are the NCOS ROMs connected via the sockets like with Acorn desktop
> > computers?
>
> Nope they are surface mounted (assuming you mean the Acorn
> NC1/Netchannel/Netproducts variety.
>
> But IIRC you can replace the system ROM via the (PCMCIA ?) ROM socket.

Which, alledgedly, is broken. The people to ask would be Precedence, see
http://www.precedence.co.uk as they know the NC inside out.

> > Also is it possible to connect somehow a floppy drive to one?
>

> Not sure but you can connect a parallel port ZIP drive.

You can, but with NC OS 1.06, you can't boot straight from a Zip disc,
unless the disc has been 'initialised' with a special program... which Argo
have, and won't give to anyone. :-/ I believe that NC OS 1.1 (or 1.2?)
can be made to boot from a Zip disc by setting the printer type to 99 (or
999, or 9999 - I forget!).

> > If so this would make a great portable box
>
> That's what I keep thinking, I'm going to play at getting one to boot
> into an Acorn desktop from a parallel EZ Flyer (don't have a ZIP).
>
> Can then be used via projector for public displays.

Mmmnnn! I quite fancy connecting an A4 LCD screen to one - actually,
mounting the LCD screen into the NC's lid. Then, I could stand the NC on
it's side, with the screen facing me. Or, do a fold-up screen (like a
laptop). With a baby-sized keyboard, it'd look cool!

--
Richard.

"Got to be good looking, cos it's so hard to please."

Alan P Dawes

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Dec 4, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/4/99

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In article <a5f2316b49%Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk>,

Richard Adkins <Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I have had various thoughts crossing my mind about the Acorn NC.
> Although I downloaded technical information off the Acorn web site,

> there is still one question which I have not found the answer to. Are

> the NCOS ROMs connected via the sockets like with Acorn desktop

> computers? Also is it possible to connect somehow a floppy drive to one?
> I believe the SMC control chip is on the motherboard. If so this would

> make a great portable box to take to work and use to do all things PCs

> cannot do, and make an IT support guys life much easier!

> TTFN

Provided it is a 'true Acorn NC' not a clone eg NTChannel Netstation NC
then it should contain a support module for a parallel port zip drive
which would be simpler to use than trying to add a floppy drive.

Alan

--
--. --. --. --. : : --- --- ----------------------------
|_| |_| | _ | | | | |_ | alan....@argonet.co.uk
| | |\ | | | | |\| | |
| | | \ |_| |_| | | |__ | Using an Acorn RiscPC

Mech

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Dec 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/5/99

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In message <Pine.LNX.4.20.99120...@door.acad.cai.cam.ac.uk>
Theo Markettos <theoma...@letterbox.com> wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Richard Adkins wrote:
>

> > Also is it possible to
> > connect somehow a floppy drive to one? I believe the SMC control chip is on
> > the motherboard.
>

> Technically, you can set the FDC to drive a floppy drive through the
> parallel port by setting a bit in one of the FDC37C665GT chip's config
> registers. However, ADFS needs an interrupt off the /INDEX line to detect
> a disc spinning which it doesn't get when this is wired through the
> parallel port - other than this I got it working on my Risc PC. Whether
> the NC has ADFS is also another issue.

It doesn't even have filecore IIRC.

--
__ _______ ______ __
/ |/ / __/ ___/ /_/ / # Dan "Mech" Maloney.
/ /|_/ / _// /__/ __ / # Disclaimer: I basically don't care.
/_/ /_/___/\___/_/ /_/ # mailto:me...@toth.org.uk

Richard Adkins

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Dec 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/5/99

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In message Richard Walker
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <c6d33c6b49%t...@worthy.demon.co.uk>
> Tim Howarth <t...@worthy.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message <a5f2316b49%Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk>
> > Richard Adkins <Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >

> > > Are the NCOS ROMs connected via the sockets like with Acorn desktop
> > > computers?
> >

> > Nope they are surface mounted (assuming you mean the Acorn
> > NC1/Netchannel/Netproducts variety.

Damn! Was there any NC which had sockets. Although with the appropriate
soldering and ESD equipment I sure this could be resolved! Has anyone got a
pic of the NC's guts up on the web?

> >
> > But IIRC you can replace the system ROM via the (PCMCIA ?) ROM socket.
>
> Which, alledgedly, is broken. The people to ask would be Precedence, see
> http://www.precedence.co.uk as they know the NC inside out.
>

> > > Also is it possible to connect somehow a floppy drive to one?
> >

> > Not sure but you can connect a parallel port ZIP drive.
>
> You can, but with NC OS 1.06, you can't boot straight from a Zip disc,
> unless the disc has been 'initialised' with a special program... which Argo
> have, and won't give to anyone. :-/ I believe that NC OS 1.1 (or 1.2?)
> can be made to boot from a Zip disc by setting the printer type to 99 (or
> 999, or 9999 - I forget!).

From my records NC OS 1.15 does not need the proprietory Argo software to
make the Zip disc bootable. If the printer type is set to 999, it then
assumes there is zip disc to boot from. Has anyone got a definative list of
the versions of NC OS released and which NC used which versions?

>
> > > If so this would make a great portable box
> >

> > That's what I keep thinking, I'm going to play at getting one to boot
> > into an Acorn desktop from a parallel EZ Flyer (don't have a ZIP).

If your successful I would be most interested to hear. If I had an NC myself
I would have a messabout and see what gives.

> >
> > Can then be used via projector for public displays.
>
> Mmmnnn! I quite fancy connecting an A4 LCD screen to one - actually,
> mounting the LCD screen into the NC's lid. Then, I could stand the NC on
> it's side, with the screen facing me. Or, do a fold-up screen (like a
> laptop). With a baby-sized keyboard, it'd look cool!

Great minds think alike! The ARM7500FE should be able to drive an LCD
screen directly, although physically connecting it is another matter. Cherry
make a nice laptop keyboard with a PS/2 connector, and Maplin stock them.
Although a NetStation IR cordless keyboard with the inbult track ball would
be ideal, anybody knows if there are an going cheap out there? Also anybody
got some cheap NC's out there to experiment with? :-)

TTFN
--
Richard Adkins - Using British computer technology with ARM power,

supporting RISC OS and Symbian EPOC.

.

Tim Howarth

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Dec 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/5/99

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In message <504766b49%Me...@vectro.freeserve.co.uk>
Mech <me...@toth.org.uk> wrote:

> In message <Pine.LNX.4.20.99120...@door.acad.cai.cam.ac.uk>
> Theo Markettos <theoma...@letterbox.com> wrote:

> > Whether the NC has ADFS is also another issue.
>
> It doesn't even have filecore IIRC.

Just looked and NCOS 1.06 has filecore 2.97

Tim Howarth

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Dec 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/5/99

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In message <6dd09b6b49%Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk>
Richard Adkins <Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In message Richard Walker
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> Damn! Was there any NC which had sockets. Although with the appropriate
> soldering and ESD equipment I sure this could be resolved! Has anyone got a
> pic of the NC's guts up on the web?

Not that I know but I've just slapped mine on the scanner and taken its
picture.

It's not too clear because of offset from scanner, i.e. can read most
component names but can see what where they are.

Let me know and I'll mail a copy.

> From my records NC OS 1.15 does not need

Yes, I've only ever seen 1.06, can anyone provide a list of changes in
later versions of NCOS - and what (if anything) it was used in.

Mech

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Dec 5, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/5/99

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In message <deb89b6b49%t...@worthy.demon.co.uk>
Tim Howarth <t...@worthy.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Cor. What for? :-)

John Duffell

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Dec 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/7/99

to

Tim Howarth wrote:

> In message <a5f2316b49%Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk>
> Richard Adkins <Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Are the NCOS ROMs connected via the sockets like with Acorn desktop
> > computers?
>
> Nope they are surface mounted (assuming you mean the Acorn
> NC1/Netchannel/Netproducts variety.

I was sure that they were socketed (Xemplar topcat) but I can't be sure.

> But IIRC you can replace the system ROM via the (PCMCIA ?) ROM socket.

They have a PCMCIA module in ROM IIRC (VNC has crashed, probably due to an
error box (Grrrr) so I can't chack)
I would think you can but the network card also allows it to replace the
rom, I tried without a net card in.

>
> > Also is it possible to connect somehow a floppy drive to one?
>
> Not sure but you can connect a parallel port ZIP drive.

You could probably connect an IDE card tot eh podule slot but then you'd
have trouble booting it...

>
>
> > If so this would make a great portable box
>
> That's what I keep thinking, I'm going to play at getting one to boot
> into an Acorn desktop from a parallel EZ Flyer (don't have a ZIP).
>

> Can then be used via projector for public displays.

Good idea, they're very light. Surely someone's hacked the box up and put
an LCD in one and a keboard on the front?

>
>
> > and make an IT support guys life much easier!
>

> Take one NC (ensure correct ethernet card) plug into network (having
> ensured BOOTP entry) - result one fully functional system with all
> network apps etc.

To add one yes, but they're very hard to set up how (I) like them

>
>
> Compared with (last weeks chore).

> [snip but netscape seems to want to quote the [snip] bit]

Someone broked the A5000 I'm on now by running something (forget what) and
resetting it (Ctrl break still worked) and the HD said disc not
recognised... I reformatted it and it's OK now.

BFN
John

Richard Walker

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Dec 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/7/99

to

In message <384CEEBA...@egglescliffe.org.uk>
John Duffell <jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk> wrote:

> Tim Howarth wrote:
>
> > In message <a5f2316b49%Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk>
> > Richard Adkins <Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Are the NCOS ROMs connected via the sockets like with Acorn desktop
> > > computers?
> >
> > Nope they are surface mounted (assuming you mean the Acorn
> > NC1/Netchannel/Netproducts variety.
>
> I was sure that they were socketed (Xemplar topcat) but I can't be sure.

I doubt it. OS updates can easily be soft-loaded over the network, so why
bother?

Having said that, I want to soft-load RISC OS 4 on my NC, and I gether it's
not possible. :-/

> > But IIRC you can replace the system ROM via the (PCMCIA ?) ROM socket.
>
> They have a PCMCIA module in ROM IIRC

I don't think they do.

They contain software support for the SmartCard socket (obviously) and:

*if* a 'ROM card' (slot underneath the SmartCard one) is fitted, the OS in
that ROM card is used *instead* of the main OS ROMs. However, it's
possible that the ROM card slot is broken.

> I would think you can but the network card also allows it to replace the
> rom, I tried without a net card in.

Yeah, you can add modules to the flashROM/EPROM of a suitable network card
(Ethernet/modem) which will automatically 'RMLoad' when the NC boots.

> You could probably connect an IDE card to the podule slot but then you'd
> have trouble booting it...

You would. The NC won't recognise the IDE card. It *only* supports EASI
cards. I can think of two - the NC Ethernet card, and the NC Modem card.
:-(

> they're very hard to set up how (I) like them

Bah! They are *easy*!

--
Richard.

"Tell me why you cried, and why you lied to me."

John Duffell

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Dec 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/8/99

to

In message <3156dc6c49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <384CEEBA...@egglescliffe.org.uk>
> John Duffell <jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Tim Howarth wrote:
> >
> > > In message <a5f2316b49%Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk>
> > > Richard Adkins <Ac...@adkins.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Are the NCOS ROMs connected via the sockets like with Acorn desktop
> > > > computers?
> > >
> > > Nope they are surface mounted (assuming you mean the Acorn
> > > NC1/Netchannel/Netproducts variety.
> >
> > I was sure that they were socketed (Xemplar topcat) but I can't be sure.
>
> I doubt it. OS updates can easily be soft-loaded over the network, so why
> bother?

Hmm, you're right, of course. The PCMCIA module isn't there either but the
socket says Flash card/ROM next to it so you could also replace it using
that. The network card also can replace the default action on start up.but
I ahven't tried.
I was also trying to wire up a crossover cable today, but, um, it's a few
inches shorter now and one end (the end with the connector on) is wrong ;-)
Does anyone know where I can get *clear* instructions on how to wire a
crossover cable, mine aren't very. (I'm trying to get extra speed for VNC
between 2 NCs and when I swap it to the xover it either says unknown protocol
icmp(!) or Heartbeat faliure (Is the cable in?))

>
> Having said that, I want to soft-load RISC OS 4 on my NC, and I gether it's
> not possible. :-/

Should be, if you load the right ones as long as the Wimp etc. don't rly on
functions of Utilitymodule and so on.

>
> > > But IIRC you can replace the system ROM via the (PCMCIA ?) ROM socket.
> >
> > They have a PCMCIA module in ROM IIRC
>
> I don't think they do.
>
> They contain software support for the SmartCard socket (obviously) and:
>
> *if* a 'ROM card' (slot underneath the SmartCard one) is fitted, the OS in
> that ROM card is used *instead* of the main OS ROMs. However, it's
> possible that the ROM card slot is broken.

Dunno, I'd need a rom card to try it...

>
> > I would think you can but the network card also allows it to replace the
> > rom, I tried without a net card in.
>
> Yeah, you can add modules to the flashROM/EPROM of a suitable network card
> (Ethernet/modem) which will automatically 'RMLoad' when the NC boots.

Well it just adds them to it so you can replace modules (I wonder if you
could flash them with UtilMod. and rplace that?) in ROM as normal.

>
> > You could probably connect an IDE card to the podule slot but then you'd
> > have trouble booting it...
>
> You would. The NC won't recognise the IDE card. It *only* supports EASI
> cards. I can think of two - the NC Ethernet card, and the NC Modem card.
> :-(

I thought they were the same as RPC ones? Does that mean that they (net
cards) don't work in RPCs/A5000s?

>
> > they're very hard to set up how (I) like them
>
> Bah! They are *easy*!

You don't know how I like them (Instant boot, everything loaded ;-)

BFN

John
--
Remove 'spam' from the address to reply
Mail (school): jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk for a reply in schooltime or sending me
URLs or asking networking questions.
At home sending for Weekends, holidays entertaining jokes, homework cures etc.

Richard Walker

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Dec 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/8/99

to

In message <496D63A3BB%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <3156dc6c49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > In message <384CEEBA...@egglescliffe.org.uk>
> > John Duffell <jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk> wrote:

[ Are NC ROMs socketed? ]

> > I doubt it. OS updates can easily be soft-loaded over the network, so
> > why bother?
>
> Hmm, you're right, of course. The PCMCIA module isn't there either but
> the socket says Flash card/ROM next to it so you could also replace it
> using that.

Except that I don't know:

- what a ROM card is
- what their format is
- how to program one

etc.! :-)

> The network card also can replace the default action on start up.but I
> ahven't tried.

It's easy, so long as you have the re-programming software. Use something
like Register to make a new Resources:$.!Boot.!Run file, and you're away.

It should be *easy* to do something clever like a LanMan98 or ShareFS
booting NC.

> I was also trying to wire up a crossover cable today, but, um, it's a few
> inches shorter now and one end (the end with the connector on) is wrong
> ;-)

I took a normal cat 5 drop cable, opened the plastic covering, and
cut-and-re-soldered four of the wires. It works. Sadly, I can't remember
which wires you swap!

> > Having said that, I want to soft-load RISC OS 4 on my NC, and I gether
> > it's not possible. :-/
>
> Should be, if you load the right ones as long as the Wimp etc. don't rly
> on functions of Utilitymodule and so on.

I want to soft-load the *whole* OS. Not just some modules.

Anyway, you can't soft-load some of the modules. I've seen it done with
RISC OS 3.80 (Filer, Pinboard, etc.) and whilst it sort-of works, the
'help' messages are corrupted. I suppose Acorn changed the file format, or
somesuch?

> > > You could probably connect an IDE card to the podule slot but then
> > > you'd have trouble booting it...
> >
> > You would. The NC won't recognise the IDE card. It *only* supports
> > EASI cards. I can think of two - the NC Ethernet card, and the NC
> > Modem card. :-(
>
> I thought they were the same as RPC ones?

Not really. NC *only* supports EASI cards.

> Does that mean that they (net cards) don't work in RPCs/A5000s?

Risc PC supports EASI and 'normal' expansion cards, which is why the NC
modem and Ethernet cards work in a Risc PC (and maybe A7k).

> > > they're very hard to set up how (I) like them
> >
> > Bah! They are *easy*!
>
> You don't know how I like them (Instant boot, everything loaded ;-)

That's not 'hard', it's just 'slow'! :-)

--
Richard.

"Hey Jude, don't make it bad. Take a sad song and make it better."

Darren Salt

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Dec 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/10/99

to

In message <b8156e6d49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <496D63A3BB%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

[snip]

>> Should be, if you load the right ones as long as the Wimp etc. don't rly
>> on functions of Utilitymodule and so on.

> I want to soft-load the *whole* OS. Not just some modules.

You most likely want the RO3.8 softloader.

> Anyway, you can't soft-load some of the modules. I've seen it done with
> RISC OS 3.80 (Filer, Pinboard, etc.) and whilst it sort-of works, the
> 'help' messages are corrupted. I suppose Acorn changed the file format, or
> somesuch?

It's entirely possible that some of the dictionary entries (see
OS_PrettyPrint) have changed between OS versions.

You will be awarded some great honour.

Andrew Veitch

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Dec 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/10/99

to

In article <496E02BEB9%ne...@youmustbejoking.demon.com.uk>, Darren Salt

<URL:mailto:ne...@youmustbejoking.demon.com.uk> wrote:
> In message <b8156e6d49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>

[re: NC ROM and RISC OS 4]

> > I want to soft-load the *whole* OS. Not just some modules.
>
> You most likely want the RO3.8 softloader.

Which, I've been informed, doesn't work on an NC (unless you know
different ;-)

--
Andrew Veitch mailto:a...@visn.co.uk
Vision Internet Services http://www.visn.co.uk/
(Speaking personally)
|- In at the Foundation of a new era for RISC OS -|

John Duffell

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Dec 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/10/99

to

In message <b8156e6d49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <496D63A3BB%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>

> > In message <3156dc6c49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>

> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In message <384CEEBA...@egglescliffe.org.uk>
> > > John Duffell <jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk> wrote:
>
> [ Are NC ROMs socketed? ]
>
> > > I doubt it. OS updates can easily be soft-loaded over the network, so
> > > why bother?
> >
> > Hmm, you're right, of course. The PCMCIA module isn't there either but
> > the socket says Flash card/ROM next to it so you could also replace it
> > using that.
>
> Except that I don't know:
>
> - what a ROM card is
> - what their format is
> - how to program one
>
> etc.! :-)
>
> > The network card also can replace the default action on start up.but I
> > ahven't tried.
>
> It's easy, so long as you have the re-programming software. Use something
> like Register to make a new Resources:$.!Boot.!Run file, and you're away.
>
> It should be *easy* to do something clever like a LanMan98 or ShareFS
> booting NC.

That would be nice, I'm going to try to boot an nc from an A5000 using
smbServer and static IP, then if it works maybe I can scrounge an SA-RPC
from somewhere to play with. If I had another net card I could set the A5k
up as a router for net access etc. Only problem is the pair of slow 40Meg
hard discs...

> > I was also trying to wire up a crossover cable today, but, um, it's a few
> > inches shorter now and one end (the end with the connector on) is wrong
> > ;-)
>
> I took a normal cat 5 drop cable, opened the plastic covering, and
> cut-and-re-soldered four of the wires. It works. Sadly, I can't remember
> which wires you swap!

Oh I've got the wiring diagram, I'm just incapable of following it...
The IT chaps got RJ45 extension adapters (female-female small box) and we
tjought it was a crossover box until we could suddenly ping a server on the
supposedly non connected net. We had the cables mixed up though. One said
that I could re-wire his, but I sat down on my own (no help/hinderance)
today and got both ends right 1st time!
VNC doesn't half work fast over crossover compared with through the hubs!

> > > Having said that, I want to soft-load RISC OS 4 on my NC, and I gether
> > > it's not possible. :-/
> >

> > Should be, if you load the right ones as long as the Wimp etc. don't rly
> > on functions of Utilitymodule and so on.
>

> I want to soft-load the *whole* OS. Not just some modules.

Ah. It should work if you can. When does the network card get queried?
If you can re-flash it with a new utilitymodule, who knows?

> Anyway, you can't soft-load some of the modules. I've seen it done with
> RISC OS 3.80 (Filer, Pinboard, etc.) and whilst it sort-of works, the
> 'help' messages are corrupted. I suppose Acorn changed the file format, or
> somesuch?

They were one these with the old version of topcat, and some still are
'Not in n of updspace' and 'whentadentaLanman::whatever.something not found'
The funnyest thing is when someone gets the message, and then comes and tries
to relay the message to me ;-)

> > > > You could probably connect an IDE card to the podule slot but then
> > > > you'd have trouble booting it...
> > >
> > > You would. The NC won't recognise the IDE card. It *only* supports
> > > EASI cards. I can think of two - the NC Ethernet card, and the NC
> > > Modem card. :-(
> >
> > I thought they were the same as RPC ones?
>
> Not really. NC *only* supports EASI cards.

So get an EASI HD card then. (or am I thinking of DEBI?)

> > Does that mean that they (net cards) don't work in RPCs/A5000s?
>
> Risc PC supports EASI and 'normal' expansion cards, which is why the NC
> modem and Ethernet cards work in a Risc PC (and maybe A7k).

Not A5K. Bah.

> > > > they're very hard to set up how (I) like them
> > >
> > > Bah! They are *easy*!
> >
> > You don't know how I like them (Instant boot, everything loaded ;-)
>
> That's not 'hard', it's just 'slow'! :-)

Yes, so I don't like it! Give me SA-NC any day. Do Microlynx do Concord
topcat ncs? I'll have to dig out the acorn adverts for that one- if it
will take a nc net card, then who knows. Well?

John Duffell

unread,

Dec 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/10/99

to

In message <496E02BEB9%ne...@youmustbejoking.demon.com.uk>
Darren Salt <ne...@youmustbejoking.demon.com.uk> wrote:

[snip]

> You most likely want the RO3.8 softloader.

I certainly do...

[snip]

Mech

unread,

Dec 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/11/99

to

> > > > Having said that, I want to soft-load RISC OS 4 on my NC, and I gether
> > > > it's not possible. :-/

> > > Should be, if you load the right ones as long as the Wimp etc. don't rly
> > > on functions of Utilitymodule and so on.

> > I want to soft-load the *whole* OS. Not just some modules.

> Ah. It should work if you can. When does the network card get queried?
> If you can re-flash it with a new utilitymodule, who knows?

UtilityModule != RISC OS kernal btw. The only way to properly
softload the OS is to remap a ROM image over the ROM.

John Duffell

unread,

Dec 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/11/99

to

In message <4c6ce06e49%Me...@vectro.freeserve.co.uk>
Mech <me...@toth.org.uk> wrote:

> > > > > Having said that, I want to soft-load RISC OS 4 on my NC, and I
> > > > > gether it's not possible. :-/
>
> > > > Should be, if you load the right ones as long as the Wimp etc. don't
> > > > rly on functions of Utilitymodule and so on.
>
> > > I want to soft-load the *whole* OS. Not just some modules.
>
> > Ah. It should work if you can. When does the network card get queried?
> > If you can re-flash it with a new utilitymodule, who knows?
>
> UtilityModule != RISC OS kernal btw. The only way to properly
> softload the OS is to remap a ROM image over the ROM.

Yes, so the kernel/loader could load the newer Utilitymodule if it looks.
Then maybe some clever routine could dynamically replace the kernel while
not confusing it somehow. Freeze? (which I've not had much luck with on ncs
or other network machines)
BFN

Richard Walker

unread,

Dec 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/11/99

to

In message <496E611A31%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <b8156e6d49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

[ Customising Ethernet flashROM in an NC ]

> > It should be *easy* to do something clever like a LanMan98 or ShareFS
> > booting NC.
>
> That would be nice, I'm going to try to boot an nc from an A5000 using
> smbServer and static IP,

My NC boots from a Risc PC with StaticIP and Dickon Hood's RISC OS NFS
server. After soft-loading a few modules, it uses ShareFS to see the Risc
PC's hard disc (like an A7000 would).

Actually, I switched the NC on yesterday, and it had forgotten it's
StaticIP configuration! I re-entered the details, but when I next powered
off/on, it had forgotten them again. :-( The NC seems to have amnesia!
:-( :-(

> then if it works maybe I can scrounge an SA-RPC from somewhere to play
> with. If I had another net card I could set the A5k up as a router for
> net access etc. Only problem is the pair of slow 40Meg hard discs...

A Linux machine is far better. I've tried it!

[ RISC OS 4 on an NC ]

> > I want to soft-load the *whole* OS. Not just some modules.
>
> Ah. It should work if you can. When does the network card get queried?
> If you can re-flash it with a new utilitymodule, who knows?

UtilityModule has got nothing to do with it. I want to soft-load a 4MB (or
is it 8MB these days?) file of the *whole* operating system.

I've played about a little, and it doesn't seem to be possible. Mind you,
I don't know what I'm doing - I need an expert. Who was it who cracked
Acorn's Ursula soft-loader to work on the StrongARM? Maybe they can help
me!?

> > Anyway, you can't soft-load some of the modules. I've seen it done
> > with RISC OS 3.80 (Filer, Pinboard, etc.) and whilst it sort-of works,
> > the 'help' messages are corrupted. I suppose Acorn changed the file
> > format, or somesuch?
>
> They were one these with the old version of topcat, and some still are
> 'Not in n of updspace' and 'whentadentaLanman::whatever.something not
> found' The funnyest thing is when someone gets the message, and then
> comes and tries to relay the message to me ;-)

What?! TopCat does things like that?! That's totally unacceptable for
such an expsensive product.

[ RPC IDE/SCSI card in an NC ]

> > Not really. NC *only* supports EASI cards.
>
> So get an EASI HD card then. (or am I thinking of DEBI?)

None exist. Anyone fancy making one?

Or, what about an IDE/USB/flashROM card?!

> Give me SA-NC any day.

Mmmnnn...

> Do Microlynx do Concord topcat ncs? I'll have to dig out the acorn
> adverts for that one- if it will take a nc net card, then who knows.
> Well?

CoNCord was only a prototype, wasn't it? And wasn't it just a StrongARM
Risc PC, with 1MB VRAM, all soldered onto one motherboard?

--
Richard.

"A taste of honey... tasting much sweeter than wine."

David J. Ruck

unread,

Dec 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/12/99

to

In article <71a1c76e49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>, Richard Walker

<URL:mailto:runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> UtilityModule has got nothing to do with it. I want to soft-load a 4MB (or
> is it 8MB these days?) file of the *whole* operating system.

4MB

> I've played about a little, and it doesn't seem to be possible. Mind you,
> I don't know what I'm doing - I need an expert. Who was it who cracked
> Acorn's Ursula soft-loader to work on the StrongARM? Maybe they can help
> me!?

The RO3.8/SA was a *completely* different ROM image, no cracking of the
loader involved.

---druck

Richard Walker

unread,

Dec 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/12/99

to

In message <ant120212bc86#x...@druck.freeuk.com>

"David J. Ruck" <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:

> In article <71a1c76e49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>, Richard Walker
> <URL:mailto:runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > UtilityModule has got nothing to do with it. I want to soft-load a 4MB
> > (or is it 8MB these days?) file of the *whole* operating system.
>
> 4MB

I see. RISC OS 4 is 4MB. OK.

> > I've played about a little, and it doesn't seem to be possible. Mind
> > you, I don't know what I'm doing - I need an expert. Who was it who
> > cracked Acorn's Ursula soft-loader to work on the StrongARM? Maybe
> > they can help me!?
>
> The RO3.8/SA was a *completely* different ROM image,

Ah, right. So RISC OS 4 and RISC OS 3.8 are completely different ROM
images? And there's *no* way the 3.8 loader could ever do anything useful
for RISC OS 4?

Has anyone seen an NC OS ROM image loader?

> no cracking of the loader involved.

I thought Acorn distributed the RISC OS 3.8 image to Developers, and the
supplied soft-loader was rigged to crash on StrongARM machines? And some
clever soul patched the loader...?

Oh hang on... are you just suggesting that a soft-load RISC OS 4 (as issued
to Developers at some point, I assume) was completely different in it's
soft-loading to RISC OS 3.8?

--
Richard.

"And he never shows his feelings, But the fool on the hill."

David J. Ruck

unread,

Dec 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/13/99

to

In article <feef386f49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>, Richard Walker

<URL:mailto:runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> In message <ant120212bc86#x...@druck.freeuk.com>
> "David J. Ruck" <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> > The RO3.8/SA was a *completely* different ROM image,
>
> Ah, right. So RISC OS 4 and RISC OS 3.8 are completely different ROM
> images?

Yes they are very much different as in an awful lot of work done by RISC OS
Ltd - you would not have been happy with RO 3.8 in the state it was believe
me!

> And there's *no* way the 3.8 loader could ever do anything useful
> for RISC OS 4?

Correct.

> Has anyone seen an NC OS ROM image loader?
>
> > no cracking of the loader involved.
>
> I thought Acorn distributed the RISC OS 3.8 image to Developers, and the
> supplied soft-loader was rigged to crash on StrongARM machines? And some
> clever soul patched the loader...?

No it was a different build, legitimately distributed to certain developers.
No naughty crackers I'm glad to say.

> Oh hang on... are you just suggesting that a soft-load RISC OS 4 (as issued
> to Developers at some point, I assume) was completely different in it's
> soft-loading to RISC OS 3.8?

No dont try and get me into trouble! RISC OS 4 never was or ever will be
distributed in a softloadable form, its always been on some sort of ROM.

If you are thinking what I think you are thinking DONT - GO BUY IT

---druck

Richard Walker

unread,

Dec 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/13/99

to

In message <ant130038f7f6#x...@druck.freeuk.com>

"David J. Ruck" <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:

> In article <feef386f49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>, Richard Walker
> <URL:mailto:runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > So RISC OS 4 and RISC OS 3.8 are completely different ROM images?
>
> Yes they are very much different as in an awful lot of work done by RISC
> OS Ltd - you would not have been happy with RO 3.8 in the state it was
> believe me!

Ah yes. I know what you mean. I saw RISC OS 3.8! :-)

I assume that Acorn did a fair bit more with 3.8 before they sent a
source-copy to RISCOS Ltd., though.

> > And there's *no* way the 3.8 loader could ever do anything useful for
> > RISC OS 4?
>
> Correct.

I see. Different ROM image formats - fair enough. But... could 3.8 be
made to work on an NC...?!

> > Oh hang on... are you just suggesting that a soft-load RISC OS 4 (as
> > issued to Developers at some point, I assume) was completely different
> > in it's soft-loading to RISC OS 3.8?
>
> No dont try and get me into trouble!

I'm not! <confused>

> RISC OS 4 never was

Oh, I thought that RISCOS Ltd. did release some form of soft-load to a
*very* select number of people. Hmm... actually, maybe that was just a
pre-release flashROM...

> or ever will be distributed in a softloadable form, its always been on
> some sort of ROM.

I know that bit.

> If you are thinking what I think you are thinking DONT - GO BUY IT

Erm... here's what I'm thinking:

"Is it possible to soft-load RISC OS 3.8 *or* RISC OS 4.0 onto an NC?"

Why am I thinking this?

Because, if you look inside an NC, you'll see the OS ROMs are baby-sized,
and soldered to the motherboard. You cannot take them out. [*]

So... if I *knew* that it was possible to run RISC OS 4 on my NC, obviously
as a soft-load, then I would buy RISC OS 4, so it was legal.

I'm *NOT* thinking about, nor advocating, using free (and also illegal)
soft-load copies of our favourite operating system!!!

I WANT TO BUY IT... but I won't if it won't work in my NC - what would be
the point? I'd have a 120ukp pair of ROMs sat doing nothing, and I
certainly can't afford to throw away 120ukp.

[*] Hmm... I wonder if Simtec could remove them, and fit a daughter card
which would act as a ROM carrier...? (a la A300 with RISC OS 3)

--
Richard.

"Rocky Raccoon checked into his room Only to find Gideon's bible."

Barry Wickett

unread,

Dec 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/13/99

to

In article <64b9d76f49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>, Richard Walker
<URL:mailto:runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> "Is it possible to soft-load RISC OS 3.8 *or* RISC OS 4.0 onto an NC?"
>
> Why am I thinking this?
>
> Because, if you look inside an NC, you'll see the OS ROMs are baby-sized,
> and soldered to the motherboard. You cannot take them out. [*]

Surely it would be possible to put RO4 on a NC smartcard. If an NC has
this inserted it will boot from this instead of the ROMS. A smartcard
would replace the existing ROMS.

Perhaps this is something ROLtd have looked at?

Barry

David J. Ruck

unread,

Dec 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/13/99

to

In article <64b9d76f49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>, Richard Walker
<URL:mailto:runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> Erm... here's what I'm thinking:
>

> "Is it possible to soft-load RISC OS 3.8 *or* RISC OS 4.0 onto an NC?"
>
> Why am I thinking this?
>
> Because, if you look inside an NC, you'll see the OS ROMs are baby-sized,
> and soldered to the motherboard. You cannot take them out. [*]

It might be possible to softload the non-SA version of RISC OS 3.8 on
an NC, because it had the support code for A7000's aswell as RISC PC.
Whether there would be any advantage in losing 4MB of RAM to run
such an unstable version I dont know.

> So... if I *knew* that it was possible to run RISC OS 4 on my NC, obviously
> as a soft-load, then I would buy RISC OS 4, so it was legal.

As for RISC OS 4, RISC OS Ltd cant do a version for the NC because they are
specifically prohibited from doing by the original contract with Acorn.
But if someone was going to do an updated OS for it, it would be supplied
on ROM card for the ROM slot - which I've heard doesnt work on all versions
of NC's -arrrh

> I'm *NOT* thinking about, nor advocating, using free (and also illegal)
> soft-load copies of our favourite operating system!!!

Good, I was just worried about my developer status if I was seen to be
giving away information on softloaders.

> I WANT TO BUY IT... but I won't if it won't work in my NC - what would be
> the point? I'd have a 120ukp pair of ROMs sat doing nothing, and I
> certainly can't afford to throw away 120ukp.

I cant see much advantage to RISC OS 4 on standard NC setup (unless you
are using it the desktop as a poor mans A7000), the money would be better
spent on the latest version of Fresco.

---druck

John Duffell

unread,

Dec 13, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/13/99

to

In message <71a1c76e49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <496E611A31%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message <b8156e6d49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> [ Customising Ethernet flashROM in an NC ]
>
> > > It should be *easy* to do something clever like a LanMan98 or ShareFS
> > > booting NC.
> >
> > That would be nice, I'm going to try to boot an nc from an A5000 using
> > smbServer and static IP,
>
> My NC boots from a Risc PC with StaticIP and Dickon Hood's RISC OS NFS
> server. After soft-loading a few modules, it uses ShareFS to see the Risc
> PC's hard disc (like an A7000 would).

I just remembered tha tthe smbServer only works on RO3.5+ :-(

> Actually, I switched the NC on yesterday, and it had forgotten it's
> StaticIP configuration! I re-entered the details, but when I next powered
> off/on, it had forgotten them again. :-( The NC seems to have amnesia!
> :-( :-(

You're not the only one with forgetful ncs. Actually there was one of my
test ones which forgot every time, and another which I thought that it would
reset itsself stayed with an annoying IP address til I delete powered it on.
I just add an exception to DHCP now, easier.

> > then if it works maybe I can scrounge an SA-RPC from somewhere to play
> > with. If I had another net card I could set the A5k up as a router for
> > net access etc. Only problem is the pair of slow 40Meg hard discs...
>
> A Linux machine is far better. I've tried it!

Maybe I can scrounge a linux machine? Not really though.

> [ RISC OS 4 on an NC ]
>
> > > I want to soft-load the *whole* OS. Not just some modules.
> >
> > Ah. It should work if you can. When does the network card get queried?
> > If you can re-flash it with a new utilitymodule, who knows?
>

> UtilityModule has got nothing to do with it. I want to soft-load a 4MB (or
> is it 8MB these days?) file of the *whole* operating system.

Yes but Utilitymodule is the sticking problem, the rest is easy. I assume
you've tried to rmreinit utilitymnodle before.

> I've played about a little, and it doesn't seem to be possible. Mind you,
> I don't know what I'm doing - I need an expert. Who was it who cracked
> Acorn's Ursula soft-loader to work on the StrongARM? Maybe they can help
> me!?

Oh I don't know, I thought it was SA only anyway. I'm good at breaking
things like that anyway.

> > > Anyway, you can't soft-load some of the modules. I've seen it done
> > > with RISC OS 3.80 (Filer, Pinboard, etc.) and whilst it sort-of works,
> > > the 'help' messages are corrupted. I suppose Acorn changed the file
> > > format, or somesuch?
> >
> > They were one these with the old version of topcat, and some still are
> > 'Not in n of updspace' and 'whentadentaLanman::whatever.something not
> > found' The funnyest thing is when someone gets the message, and then
> > comes and tries to relay the message to me ;-)
>
> What?! TopCat does things like that?! That's totally unacceptable for
> such an expsensive product.

Well it's cheaper than the alternatives at the time, and we also had support
for it. (All emails answered within a day, with an autoreponder)

> [ RPC IDE/SCSI card in an NC ]
>
> > > Not really. NC *only* supports EASI cards.
> >
> > So get an EASI HD card then. (or am I thinking of DEBI?)
>
> None exist. Anyone fancy making one?
>
> Or, what about an IDE/USB/flashROM card?!

The possibilities are endless, really.

>
> > Give me SA-NC any day.
>
> Mmmnnn...
>
> > Do Microlynx do Concord topcat ncs? I'll have to dig out the acorn
> > adverts for that one- if it will take a nc net card, then who knows.
> > Well?
>
> CoNCord was only a prototype, wasn't it? And wasn't it just a StrongARM
> Risc PC, with 1MB VRAM, all soldered onto one motherboard?

Oh, that's a pity.

Richard Walker

unread,

Dec 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/14/99

to

In message <ant13184...@gromit.tquest.org.uk>
Barry Wickett <Ba...@tquest.org.uk> wrote:

> In article <64b9d76f49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>, Richard Walker
> <URL:mailto:runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > "Is it possible to soft-load RISC OS 3.8 *or* RISC OS 4.0 onto an NC?"
>

> Surely it would be possible to put RO4 on a NC smartcard.

Bzzt. Close, but no cigar!

You mean a 'ROM card'. They are *totally* different from a SmartCard.

> If an NC has this inserted it will boot from this instead of the ROMS. A
> smartcard would replace the existing ROMS.

'ROM card'. And, yes, one would replace the existing ROMs.

> Perhaps this is something ROLtd have looked at?

Hmm... they should be allowed to, since a 'ROM card' is certainly, by
definition, a 'ROM' device. Mind you, isn't it the case that they can't
aim at the 'NC market'?

Having said that, *this* NC market isn't the same as the one which Pace
have, is it?

Richard Walker

unread,

Dec 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/14/99

to

In message <496FE6DCF8%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <71a1c76e49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>

> > A Linux machine is far better. I've tried it! [for booting]

>
> Maybe I can scrounge a linux machine? Not really though.

There are people at computer fairs selling 486/Pentium machines cheaply.

> > [ RISC OS 4 on an NC ]
> >

> > UtilityModule has got nothing to do with it. I want to soft-load a 4MB
> > (or is it 8MB these days?) file of the *whole* operating system.
>
> Yes but Utilitymodule is the sticking problem, the rest is easy. I
> assume you've tried to rmreinit utilitymnodle before.

Er, actually, no I have not tried fiddling with UtilityModule - it's got

nothing to do with it.

A long time ago, I saw RISC OS 3.8, which was soft-loaded onto a Risc PC.
Is what happens is that a small utility program loads a four megabyte ROM
image file into RAM, and 'soft-reboots' the machine. There's no RMLoading
or wotnot going on.

[ RPC IDE/SCSI card in an NC ]

> > Anyone fancy making one?
> >
> > Or, what about an IDE/USB/flashROM card?!
>
> The possibilities are endless, really.

Indeed they are. Any developers fancy it?

By the way, Precedence Technologies are working on a serial port for NCs.
It'll plug into the parallel port! :-)

Tim, if you're here, didn't you want a serial port on one of your NCs?

--
Richard.

"Oh, I get by with a little help from my friends."

Richard Walker

unread,

Dec 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/14/99

to

In message <ant1319089656#x...@druck.freeuk.com>

"David J. Ruck" <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:

> In article <64b9d76f49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>, Richard Walker
> <URL:mailto:runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>

> It might be possible to softload the non-SA version of RISC OS 3.8 on
> an NC, because it had the support code for A7000's aswell as RISC PC.
> Whether there would be any advantage in losing 4MB of RAM to run
> such an unstable version I dont know.

I think it might. The new Filer and Pinboard are nice... or, at least they
were when I last saw them!

> As for RISC OS 4, RISC OS Ltd cant do a version for the NC because they
> are specifically prohibited from doing by the original contract with
> Acorn.

Yes, I remember something about a 'stay away from NC/STB stuff' clause.
:-( It's not as if they would be stealing custom from Pace, though, is
it?!

> But if someone was going to do an updated OS for it, it would be supplied
> on ROM card for the ROM slot - which I've heard doesnt work on all
> versions of NC's -arrrh

Aarrgghh!!!

> > I WANT TO BUY IT... but I won't if it won't work in my NC - what would
> > be the point? I'd have a 120ukp pair of ROMs sat doing nothing, and I
> > certainly can't afford to throw away 120ukp.
>
> I cant see much advantage to RISC OS 4 on standard NC setup (unless you
> are using it the desktop as a poor mans A7000),

Ping! Correct! I want the improved Filer and Pinboard etc. and the speed
improvements.

> the money would be better spent on the latest version of Fresco.

NC Fresco? Where can I get a later version?

Michael Curtis

unread,

Dec 15, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/15/99

to

In message <64b9d76f49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> [*] Hmm... I wonder if Simtec could remove them, and fit a daughter card
> which would act as a ROM carrier...? (a la A300 with RISC OS 3)

If you got an IC socket with extra long lugs, you could (in theory) bend
them inwards and mount them in place of (or perhaps even on top of) the
NC OS ROMS. If the NC's are sufficiently compatible with A7k's you
could fit RISC OS. (IMHO even 3.5 would be better than NCOS) NCOS is a
stupid excuse for an operating system - Acorn removed everything that
makes it a pleasure to use RISC OS.

unread,

Dec 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/16/99

to

Richard Walker wrote:

> In message <ant1319089656#x...@druck.freeuk.com>
> "David J. Ruck" <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <64b9d76f49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>, Richard Walker
> > <URL:mailto:runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >
> > It might be possible to softload the non-SA version of RISC OS 3.8 on
> > an NC, because it had the support code for A7000's aswell as RISC PC.
> > Whether there would be any advantage in losing 4MB of RAM to run
> > such an unstable version I dont know.
>

> I think it might. The new Filer and Pinboard are nice... or, at least they
> were when I last saw them!

Get a real on ethen...

> > As for RISC OS 4, RISC OS Ltd cant do a version for the NC because they
> > are specifically prohibited from doing by the original contract with
> > Acorn.
>
> Yes, I remember something about a 'stay away from NC/STB stuff' clause.
> :-( It's not as if they would be stealing custom from Pace, though, is
> it?!

And you really think that they will say 'Ok, you can' then???!

>
>
> > But if someone was going to do an updated OS for it, it would be supplied
> > on ROM card for the ROM slot - which I've heard doesnt work on all
> > versions of NC's -arrrh
>
> Aarrgghh!!!

Hmm

>
>
> > > I WANT TO BUY IT... but I won't if it won't work in my NC - what would
> > > be the point? I'd have a 120ukp pair of ROMs sat doing nothing, and I
> > > certainly can't afford to throw away 120ukp.
> >
> > I cant see much advantage to RISC OS 4 on standard NC setup (unless you
> > are using it the desktop as a poor mans A7000),
>

> Ping! Correct! I want the improved Filer and Pinboard etc. and the speed
> improvements.

Don't we all, that's what RO4 is though.

> > the money would be better spent on the latest version of Fresco.
>
> NC Fresco? Where can I get a later version?

Real fresco, but it doesn't work for some reason!
It seems to just lock up when I run InetSuite...

John

Tim Howarth

unread,

Dec 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/16/99

to

In message <3858E2A0...@egglescliffe.org.uk>
John Duffell <jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk> wrote:

> Real fresco, but it doesn't work for some reason!
> It seems to just lock up when I run InetSuite...

Silly question, why do you run Inetsuite ?

We use standalone (site license) Fresco (1.73?) and Marcel on our NCs.
All you need to do to divorce them from Inetsuite IIRC is ensure one or
two things are pointing in the right direction and in the right
position.

e.g. set inetdbase$path to a central resource for the hosts/services
etc. files (we use !Internet inside Resources in our own Boot area); put
mimemap in (e.g.) System:310.Modules.network, maybe edit a !Run file or
two to load from there, not InetSuite.

Oh, and (still I believe) use a RAM scrap - memfs in preference to cachefs.

Fresco points at our proxy server and Marcel at the email server.

In use all day long !

John Duffell

unread,

Dec 16, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/16/99

to

In message <Pine.LNX.4.10.991215...@bits.bris.ac.uk>
Pete <do...@bits.bris.ac.uk> wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, John Duffell wrote:
>
> > In message <71a1c76e49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In message <496E611A31%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> > > John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In message <b8156e6d49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>

> > > > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> > >
[snip]

> > I just remembered tha tthe smbServer only works on RO3.5+ :-(
>
> Erm that's not right - it works okay on my A5000 - now up to version 0.05
> IIRC.

VNCserver, near enough. It's the icons which go dodgy though.

Humm

John
--
Remove 'spam' from the address to reply
Mail (school): jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk for a reply in schooltime

MERRY CHRISTMAS and A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Richard Walker

unread,

Dec 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/17/99

to

In message <49712EFEB0%Stu...@stdevel.demon.co.uk>
Stuart Tyrrell <Stu...@stdevel.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <cc98857049%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > By the way, Precedence Technologies are working on a serial port for
> > NCs.
>
> Are they?? ;-)

Ah, so you're behind it?! I should have guessed!

Now, how about a nice little IDE/USB/flashROM EASI card?

Or what about a way of connecting an A4 LCD screen?

--
Richard.

"This happened once before, when I came to your door, no reply."

Richard Walker

unread,

Dec 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/17/99

to

In message <3858E2A0...@egglescliffe.org.uk>
John Duffell <jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk> wrote:

> Richard Walker wrote:

[ Richard wants RISC OS 4 on his NC ]

> > The new Filer and Pinboard are nice... or, at least they were when I
> > last saw them!
>
> Get a real one then...

???

> > > As for RISC OS 4, RISC OS Ltd cant do a version for the NC because
> > > they are specifically prohibited from doing by the original contract
> > > with Acorn.
> >
> > Yes, I remember something about a 'stay away from NC/STB stuff' clause.
> > :-( It's not as if they would be stealing custom from Pace, though, is
> > it?!
>
> And you really think that they will say 'Ok, you can' then???!

No, but I don't see why, say, RISCOS Ltd. releasing an NC-compatible RISC
OS 4 would cause a loss of custom to Pace. It wouldn't. It's not as if I
can buy 'NC RISC OS 4' from Pace, is it?

> > > the money would be better spent on the latest version of Fresco.
> >
> > NC Fresco? Where can I get a later version?
>

> Real fresco, but it doesn't work for some reason! It seems to just lock
> up when I run InetSuite...

That's because you are running the ANT Suite. It's a pile of pants. Just
run Fresco (after you've hacked the !Run file).

--
Richard.

"You say yes, I say no."

Michael Curtis

unread,

Dec 17, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/17/99

to

In message <a54557149%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <98c29a7049%ZM...@jamjars.ihug.co.nz>
> Michael Curtis <zmja_...@hello.to> wrote:
>
> > In message <64b9d76f49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >
> > > [*] Hmm... I wonder if Simtec could remove them, and fit a daughter
> > > card which would act as a ROM carrier...? (a la A300 with RISC OS 3)
> >
> > If you got an IC socket with extra long lugs, you could (in theory) bend
> > them inwards and mount them in place of (or perhaps even on top of) the
> > NC OS ROMS.
>
> Aarrgghh!!! That sounds like a real nightmare!

If you've got a steady hand and you're sure you'll be able to replace
the NCOS ROMS if it doesn't works then you're OK. (either that or you
could try getting RO4 on an A3010 :-) )

You could of course use little flying leads to connect each pin of the
ROM to the board. :-)

Tagline: Died during an aborted news transfer

Richard Walker

unread,

Dec 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/18/99

to

In message <bda4b07149%ZM...@jamjars.ihug.co.nz>
Michael Curtis <zmja_...@hello.to> wrote:

> In message <a54557149%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > In message <98c29a7049%ZM...@jamjars.ihug.co.nz>
> > Michael Curtis <zmja_...@hello.to> wrote:
> >
> > > If you got an IC socket with extra long lugs, you could (in theory)
> > > bend them inwards and mount them in place of (or perhaps even on top
> > > of) the NC OS ROMS.
> >
> > Aarrgghh!!! That sounds like a real nightmare!
>
> If you've got a steady hand and you're sure you'll be able to replace
> the NCOS ROMS if it doesn't works then you're OK.

I don't really have either, and isn't soldering on a SMT board a bit silly?

> (either that or you could try getting RO4 on an A3010 :-) )

...which wouldn't work at all. I've tried RISC OS 3.60 on an A4! :-)

Essentially, it's because the support for IOC/MEMC/etc. isn't there. Oh,
and there's probably some ARM6+ only stuff...

> You could of course use little flying leads to connect each pin of the
> ROM to the board. :-)

Hmm... But how would it cope with a ROM *and* 'RO4 card' connected?!

--
Richard.

"Someday when I'm lonely. Wishing you weren't so far away."

Mech

unread,

Dec 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/18/99

to

In message <3a475b7249%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <bda4b07149%ZM...@jamjars.ihug.co.nz>
> Michael Curtis <zmja_...@hello.to> wrote:

> > If you've got a steady hand and you're sure you'll be able to replace
> > the NCOS ROMS if it doesn't works then you're OK.

> I don't really have either, and isn't soldering on a SMT board a bit silly?

I've managed it with a perfectly standard soldering iron.

> > (either that or you could try getting RO4 on an A3010 :-) )

> ...which wouldn't work at all. I've tried RISC OS 3.60 on an A4! :-)

Hehe.

> Essentially, it's because the support for IOC/MEMC/etc. isn't there. Oh,
> and there's probably some ARM6+ only stuff...

There's *plenty* of ARM6+ only stuff...

> > You could of course use little flying leads to connect each pin of the
> > ROM to the board. :-)

> Hmm... But how would it cope with a ROM *and* 'RO4 card' connected?!

It wouldn't.

--
__ _______ ______ __
/ |/ / __/ ___/ /_/ / # Dan "Mech" Maloney.
/ /|_/ / _// /__/ __ / # Disclaimer: I basically don't care.
/_/ /_/___/\___/_/ /_/ # mailto:me...@toth.org.uk

Richard Walker

unread,

Dec 18, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/18/99

to

In message <5e1647249%Me...@vectro.freeserve.co.uk>
Mech <me...@toth.org.uk> wrote:

> In message <3a475b7249%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > isn't soldering on a SMT board a bit silly?
>
> I've managed it with a perfectly standard soldering iron.

What was it? And, how?!?!

--
Richard.

"I should have known better with a girl like you."

Mech

unread,

Dec 19, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/19/99

to

In message <5ace957249%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <5e1647249%Me...@vectro.freeserve.co.uk>
> Mech <me...@toth.org.uk> wrote:

> > In message <3a475b7249%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> > > isn't soldering on a SMT board a bit silly?

> > I've managed it with a perfectly standard soldering iron.

unread,

Dec 20, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/20/99

to

In message <slrn85qqo1.clf...@door.acad.cai.cam.ac.uk>
theoma...@letterbox.com (Theo Markettos) wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Dec 1999 13:19:32 +0000, Richard Walker
> <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> >...which wouldn't work at all. I've tried RISC OS 3.60 on an A4! :-)
>
> Which is even less likely to work, since it's in 4MB ROMs, and the A4
> only supports 2MB (unless Acorn had something up their sleeve when they
> designed it...?).

Oops... my error!

> RISC OS 3.5 in 2MB ROMs has a slim chance of working, but since VIDC1 was
> redesigned to incompatible VIDC20, you might have a few display
> problems...

Ahem... it was RISC OS 3.50 that I tried, for exactly the reason you
described.

Anyway, it didn't work. :-(

--
Richard.

"It's been a hard day's night, and I been working like a dog."

John Duffell

unread,

Dec 21, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/21/99

to

In message <2c671b7349%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <4973133FDF%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message <80b9c67149%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >

[snip fresco w/o inetsuite]

>
> Here's what I'm doing with Fresco 1.80 - edit !Fresco.!Run:
>
> The two lines which RMEnsure MimeMap should be changed to:
>
> RMEnsure MimeMap 0.05 RMLoad System:Modules.Network.MimeMap
> RMEnsure MimeMap 0.05 Error You need MimeMap 0.05 or later

I thought 0.05 was broken?

> And install Justin's MimeMap (or Acorns) into System.

I actually run the module elsewhere so that didn't matter.

> Make sure that your !Internet.files directory also contains a MimeMap file
> (steal the one from InetSuite if you have to).

I think so.

> You may also wish to change a few variables in !Fresco.Config... mainly
> those relating to cookies/users/hotlist files. Obviously, you can't store
> those in the Fresco directory (it'll be read-only) so you would need
> something like LanMan::UserArea.$.InetFiles.Fresco.<xx>, or whatever.

I'll get onto that later, I was logged on at the time anyway.

I finally got the nc to boot from the 5000, I have looked into the ShareFS
problem (ie not works) and I think it doesn't like the EtherI driver. It
is 2.00 on the expansion card and Newstack demands 1.01. The version in
system is about 3.8ish but oading that kills the network card for some
reason.
Interestingly the showstat -v shows minor code as 21 IIRC and Hmm it's just
bboting now so I'll go back later. There's also something about incorrect
bits in NTZ flags set.
Freeway itsself works fine and I can see shared discs in fwshow if I register
an 'interest' in them, rather than saying 'No valid interfaces found'.
The file 'B' not found was Paint trying to load for some reason, I don't know
why.
Oh yes and neither the NC nor the A5000 even recognise the other's net card!
Oh and out of interest, does anyone know of a (ready made) NFS server, that
might help me and go a bit faster?

Apart from that, I hope my RS arrives soon!

Richard Walker

unread,

Dec 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/23/99

to

In message <4973F24A81%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <2c671b7349%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > In message <4973133FDF%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> > John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > In message <80b9c67149%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >
> > Here's what I'm doing with Fresco 1.80 - edit !Fresco.!Run:
> >
> > The two lines which RMEnsure MimeMap should be changed to:
> >
> > RMEnsure MimeMap 0.05 RMLoad System:Modules.Network.MimeMap
> > RMEnsure MimeMap 0.05 Error You need MimeMap 0.05 or later
>
> I thought 0.05 was broken?

The Acorn/ANT version was. However, I found it (or was is Gerph's 0.05?)
to work OK so just changed it to make Fresco less fussy. As it happens, I
have 0.10 in use.

> > And install Justin's MimeMap (or Acorns) into System.
>
> I actually run the module elsewhere so that didn't matter.

Why? Can't Marcel load it for itself? (with a similar !Run file hack)

> > Make sure that your !Internet.files directory also contains a MimeMap
> > file (steal the one from InetSuite if you have to).
>
> I think so.

It's absolutely *critical*! Fresco won't fetch anything otherwise... :-)

> > You may also wish to change a few variables in !Fresco.Config... mainly
> > those relating to cookies/users/hotlist files. Obviously, you can't
> > store those in the Fresco directory (it'll be read-only) so you would
> > need something like LanMan::UserArea.$.InetFiles.Fresco.<xx>, or
> > whatever.
>
> I'll get onto that later, I was logged on at the time anyway.

It depends what logon program you use... if you were using something really
funky, like NetLM (!) you could make it set a system variable, e.g.
User$Path, so Fresco would only need: User:cookies, User:Hostlist etc. I
find it's best to put them in a sub dir. since lots of files in a user's
root dir. can be messy.

Oh, and you should add something like: '*CDir User:InetFiles' and '*CDir
User:InetFiles.Fresco' to Fresco's !Run file too... just in case the user
doesn't already have the dirs.

> I finally got the nc to boot from the 5000,

Hooray!

> I have looked into the ShareFS problem (ie not works) and I think it
> doesn't like the EtherI driver.

Mine works.

Risc PC with RISC OS 3.70: ShareFS 3.40 and Freeway 0.26

NC 'has' (!) NC OS 1.06: ShareFS 3.41 and Freeway 0.28

The Risc PC has ADFS::Acorn.$ shared, and the NC works fine. It runs
Acorn's universal boot sequence from it!

> It is 2.00 on the expansion card and Newstack demands 1.01.

Eugh!!! Don't use Newstack at all! It's evil. Just comment out the line
which calls it.

> Oh and out of interest, does anyone know of a (ready made) NFS server,
> that might help me and go a bit faster?

Dickon Hood's NFSServer works well on my Risc PC. I could email you some
info on that if you like...

--
Richard.

"Don't pass me by don't make me cry don't make me blue."

John Duffell

unread,

Dec 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/23/99

to

In message <1673a57449%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <4973F24A81%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message <2c671b7349%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In message <4973133FDF%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> > > John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In message <80b9c67149%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > > > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> > >

[snip mimemap]

>
> > > And install Justin's MimeMap (or Acorns) into System.
> >
> > I actually run the module elsewhere so that didn't matter.
>
> Why? Can't Marcel load it for itself? (with a similar !Run file hack)

Well yes, but since it runs anyway, I didn't notice.

> > > Make sure that your !Internet.files directory also contains a MimeMap
> > > file (steal the one from InetSuite if you have to).
> >
> > I think so.
>
> It's absolutely *critical*! Fresco won't fetch anything otherwise... :-)

Ahhhh Hmmmmmm, very interesting. You mean it just sits there and looks at
you?

[saving choices]

> It depends what logon program you use... if you were using something really
> funky, like NetLM (!)

No, surely not :-) I use my own hand crafted version, with handles
everywhere so I just add a bit on. Now it has a freeway user advert thing on
so I just do *fwshow on an nc and it shows all of the people logged on. I
might do something with the sharefs 'Hosts' type if I have time.

> you could make it set a system variable, e.g. User$Path, so Fresco would
> only need: User:cookies, User:Hostlist etc. I find it's best to put them
> in a sub dir. since lots of files in a user's root dir. can be messy.

UserChoices$Dir?
That's what TCFiler (yuk!!) used and Browse was set up to use it so I just
left it. There were also a couple of Macros for *$Path on this IIRC.

> Oh, and you should add something like: '*CDir User:InetFiles' and '*CDir
> User:InetFiles.Fresco' to Fresco's !Run file too... just in case the user
> doesn't already have the dirs.

Doesn't it create them automatically??? What? Browse does ;-). That way, it
only put them there if you saved choices or edited your hotlist.

> > I finally got the nc to boot from the 5000,
>
> Hooray!

...and then the NC's PSU blew up :-( When I find out who put the 13A fuse
in...

> > I have looked into the ShareFS problem (ie not works) and I think it
> > doesn't like the EtherI driver.
>
> Mine works.

I kNow that, don't I. Or were you just showing off ;-)

> Risc PC with RISC OS 3.70: ShareFS 3.40 and Freeway 0.26
>
> NC 'has' (!) NC OS 1.06: ShareFS 3.41 and Freeway 0.28

...and Ether? ?.??

> The Risc PC has ADFS::Acorn.$ shared, and the NC works fine. It runs
> Acorn's universal boot sequence from it!

That would be ideal. I think Microlynx have been doing dodgy things to the
NCs we got. A RPC booting via SareFS would have been much easier all round.

> > It is 2.00 on the expansion card and Newstack demands 1.01.
>
> Eugh!!! Don't use Newstack at all! It's evil. Just comment out the line
> which calls it.

So why is it there then? I thought the Internet v5 etc were necesary for bug
fixes and security?

[nfs]

>
> Dickon Hood's NFSServer works well on my Risc PC. I could email you some
> info on that if you like...

I've got it, I just can't compile it. I don't even know if it's what I want
yet.

Don't expect a reply for a while - I get my RS TOMORROW!
Mmmm

BFN

John
--
Remove 'spam' from the address to reply
Mail (school): jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk for a reply in schooltime
MERRY CHRISTMAS and A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Due to a new arrival (PC) I may be slow in replying 'til school starts :-/

Richard Walker

unread,

Dec 23, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/23/99

to

In message <497516411E%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <1673a57449%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > In message <4973F24A81%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> > John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > In message <2c671b7349%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Make sure that your !Internet.files directory also contains a
> > > > MimeMap file (steal the one from InetSuite if you have to).
> > >
> > > I think so.
> >
> > It's absolutely *critical*! Fresco won't fetch anything otherwise...
> > :-)
>
> Ahhhh Hmmmmmm, very interesting. You mean it just sits there and looks
> at you?

Yes. Do '*Show *Inet*' and look for MimeMappings, and check the file it
points to actually exists.

> [saving choices]

>
> > Oh, and you should add something like: '*CDir User:InetFiles' and
> > '*CDir User:InetFiles.Fresco' to Fresco's !Run file too... just in case
> > the user doesn't already have the dirs.
>
> Doesn't it create them automatically???

Well, I dunno. Maybe it does. I just assumed that, being Fresco, it
wouldn't! :-)

> What? Browse does ;-).

Ah, but Browse is much more funky!

> > > I have looked into the ShareFS problem (ie not works) and I think it
> > > doesn't like the EtherI driver.
> >
> > Mine works.
>
> I kNow that, don't I. Or were you just showing off ;-)

Well, maybe... :-)

> > Risc PC with RISC OS 3.70: ShareFS 3.40 and Freeway 0.26
> >
> > NC 'has' (!) NC OS 1.06: ShareFS 3.41 and Freeway 0.28
>
> ...and Ether? ?.??

EtherI 1.01.

> > The Risc PC has ADFS::Acorn.$ shared, and the NC works fine. It runs
> > Acorn's universal boot sequence from it!
>
> That would be ideal. I think Microlynx have been doing dodgy things to
> the NCs we got. A RPC booting via SareFS would have been much easier all
> round.

Indeed. TopCat seems a bit dodgy to me, especially with the flash
re-programming...

> > Eugh!!! Don't use Newstack at all! It's evil. Just comment out the
> > line which calls it.
>
> So why is it there then? I thought the Internet v5 etc were necesary for
> bug fixes and security?

Nah. You'll find Internet 4 just fine for Fresco and Marcel. Technically,
yes, using Internet 5 is 'better', but it's just too much of a hassle.

If you *really* want Internet 5, I'd recommend loading it *very* early in
the NC boot file (i.e. the first thing).

> > Dickon Hood's NFSServer works well on my Risc PC. I could email you
> > some info on that if you like...
>
> I've got it, I just can't compile it. I don't even know if it's what I
> want yet.

I've got a working version. If you're stuck, give me an email...

> Don't expect a reply for a while - I get my RS TOMORROW!
> Mmmm

But you need to do a multi-page review for c.s.a.hardware!!! :-)

--
Richard.

"Rocky Raccoon checked into his room Only to find Gideon's bible."

John Duffell

unread,

Dec 26, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/26/99

to

In message <cc39287549%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <497516411E%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message <1673a57449%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In message <4973F24A81%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> > > John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In message <2c671b7349%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > > > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Make sure that your !Internet.files directory also contains a
> > > > > MimeMap file (steal the one from InetSuite if you have to).
> > > >
> > > > I think so.
> > >
> > > It's absolutely *critical*! Fresco won't fetch anything otherwise...
> > > :-)
> >
> > Ahhhh Hmmmmmm, very interesting. You mean it just sits there and looks
> > at you?
>
> Yes. Do '*Show *Inet*' and look for MimeMappings, and check the file it
> points to actually exists.

I would if I could, santa didn't bring me a PSU though :-(

[snip]

> > What? Browse does ;-).
>
> Ah, but Browse is much more funky!

Oh yes indeed.

> > > > I have looked into the ShareFS problem (ie not works) and I think it
> > > > doesn't like the EtherI driver.
> > >
> > > Mine works.
> >
> > I kNow that, don't I. Or were you just showing off ;-)
>
> Well, maybe... :-)
>
> > > Risc PC with RISC OS 3.70: ShareFS 3.40 and Freeway 0.26
> > >
> > > NC 'has' (!) NC OS 1.06: ShareFS 3.41 and Freeway 0.28
> >
> > ...and Ether? ?.??
>
> EtherI 1.01.

I wonder where I'd get a copy of that. Do any Acorn !Boots have that?
Or actually, if you load 2.0 or whatever, does Sharefs still work?
I wish we'd left one unflashed now :-(

> > > The Risc PC has ADFS::Acorn.$ shared, and the NC works fine. It runs
> > > Acorn's universal boot sequence from it!
> >
> > That would be ideal. I think Microlynx have been doing dodgy things to
> > the NCs we got. A RPC booting via SareFS would have been much easier all
> > round.
>
> Indeed. TopCat seems a bit dodgy to me, especially with the flash
> re-programming...

It's probably faster, or set up to run on NT.

> > > Eugh!!! Don't use Newstack at all! It's evil. Just comment out the
> > > line which calls it.
> >
> > So why is it there then? I thought the Internet v5 etc were necesary for
> > bug fixes and security?
>
> Nah. You'll find Internet 4 just fine for Fresco and Marcel. Technically,
> yes, using Internet 5 is 'better', but it's just too much of a hassle.
>
> If you *really* want Internet 5, I'd recommend loading it *very* early in
> the NC boot file (i.e. the first thing).

Then the network connection goes bye bye. Thet's the point of newstack, but
it decides it'll be a good time to do all the other modules at the same time.

> > > Dickon Hood's NFSServer works well on my Risc PC. I could email you
> > > some info on that if you like...
> >
> > I've got it, I just can't compile it. I don't even know if it's what I
> > want yet.
>
> I've got a working version. If you're stuck, give me an email...

I am stuck, I just need either NfsServer:NfsServer or the compiler to compile
it. Is it mailable?

> > Don't expect a reply for a while - I get my RS TOMORROW!
> > Mmmm
>
> But you need to do a multi-page review for c.s.a.hardware!!! :-)

This is hardware though! Will 5 pages of 'Mmmmmmm' do?
Interestingly, on *podules it gives in slot 4 (or was it 3) Extended prdule
type &0300 or something and in the network it says either none, Simple podule
or Acorn Econet card. Very strange I'd say.

Problems I have encountered are the serial port doesn't work, nor does the
RJ45 network port (yet) when the CD drive spins down if I try to open
something else it says Drive did not respond the first time, and only works
on the second attempt. I haven't yet informed RSL about the CD problem
although it'll probably be fixed soon. I was sure there were supposed to be
2 serial ports though?

Apart from those minor setbacks, overall I think it is very good. It seems
as nippy as the StrongARM here for dragging windows around and booting is
very fast. The machine itsself is very quiet, the hard disc is the noisiest
part and even that's quiet. It has only crashed twice so far, the first was
when I tried the serial port, and the other was the demo of WebsterXL.
Loading off the hard disc is fast (I'll do a speed test later) but Frak takes
a while (maybe so I see the advert thing) I get Easiwriter 4.08ish but for
some reason there are no RO4 icons, but the one at school has (on ncs - the
utilitymodule is 4.50 there!). I might email them. MP3s won't play in any
screen mode in the player which comes with it (SmartCD or something) and
AMPlayer refuses to run. The sound is nice int he Botkiller demo and it has
some different levels to the AU demo. The 4gig HD came with under 200Meg on
it so it should last (didn't the adverts say 'over 1 gig of software' or did
that include the 2 CDs (ankh and DWmillennium)?

That's all I can think of, ask any questions you want though if it's 'Should
I get one?' the answer is YES!

HTH

Richard Walker

unread,

Dec 27, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/27/99

to

In message <4976797046%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <cc39287549%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > EtherI 1.01.
>
> I wonder where I'd get a copy of that. Do any Acorn !Boots have that?
> Or actually, if you load 2.0 or whatever, does Sharefs still work?

I don't have a later version of EtherI. I didn't even know 2.x existed!

> I wish we'd left one unflashed now :-(

Didn't you instruct the flash software to make a backup of the old image?

> > TopCat seems a bit dodgy to me, especially with the flash
> > re-programming...
>
> It's probably faster, or set up to run on NT.

It's basically the same as standard, but they've removed NFS and popped in
LanManFS. Anyone can do that old trick. However, since ShareFS doesn't
work, they've broken something along the way...

> > If you *really* want Internet 5, I'd recommend loading it *very* early
> > in the NC boot file (i.e. the first thing).
>
> Then the network connection goes bye bye. Thet's the point of newstack,
> but it decides it'll be a good time to do all the other modules at the
> same time.

Yes, you'll loose the network stack, which is why you have to have all that
guff on with a RAM/CacheFS disc...

[ Dickon's NFSServer ]

> > I've got a working version. If you're stuck, give me an email...
>
> I am stuck, I just need either NfsServer:NfsServer or the compiler to
> compile it. Is it mailable?

Yes, give me an email. It's a 93KB zip. UUcode/MIME will make it a little
bigger, obviously.

> > > Don't expect a reply for a while - I get my RS TOMORROW!
> >

> > But you need to do a multi-page review for c.s.a.hardware!!! :-)
>
> This is hardware though! Will 5 pages of 'Mmmmmmm' do?

No! :-p

> Interestingly, on *podules it gives in slot 4 (or was it 3) Extended
> prdule type &0300 or something and in the network it says either none,
> Simple podule or Acorn Econet card. Very strange I'd say.

If you put an Acorn podule in an NC, it does something like that! :-)

> Problems I have encountered are the serial port doesn't work, nor does
> the RJ45 network port (yet)

Why? Any clues? No drivers?

> I was sure there were supposed to be 2 serial ports though?

Maybe one is only a header on the PCB... or it's only a software-handshake
one (yuk!)... or it didn't work, so they binned it!

> Apart from those minor setbacks, overall I think it is very good. It
> seems as nippy as the StrongARM here for dragging windows around and
> booting is very fast.

Grand. I'm not astonished that the disc system is quick, since it would
have to be *abysmal* to be any slower than those which Acorn built! :-)

> for some reason there are no RO4 icons,

Huh?! Even though it's running RISC OS 4?

> but the one at school has

A RiscStation at school too?

> (on ncs - the utilitymodule is 4.50 there!).

Ah, you've soft-loaded the icons on an NC!? Tsk! :-)

> That's all I can think of, ask any questions you want though if it's
> 'Should I get one?' the answer is YES!

That would be nice, but I don't have over half-a-grand to spend on one.
:-(

John Duffell

unread,

Dec 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/28/99

to

In message <c0fd7749%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <4976797046%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>

> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message <cc39287549%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >
> > > EtherI 1.01.
> >
> > I wonder where I'd get a copy of that. Do any Acorn !Boots have that?
> > Or actually, if you load 2.0 or whatever, does Sharefs still work?
>

> I don't have a later version of EtherI. I didn't even know 2.x existed!

Look in System:Modules.Network and there <fx : looks> isn't EtherI. Oh well
there is at school.

> > I wish we'd left one unflashed now :-(
>

> Didn't you instruct the flash software to make a backup of the old image?

Well it wasn't me personally, but the software was just a 'plug in card, and
if no crashes then run prog and press Space or click to continue'

>
> > > TopCat seems a bit dodgy to me, especially with the flash
> > > re-programming...
> >
> > It's probably faster, or set up to run on NT.
>

> It's basically the same as standard, but they've removed NFS and popped in
> LanManFS. Anyone can do that old trick.

Yes but I tried the AU200CD boot on it and it crashed quite nicely. I think
they've twaked some bits.

> However, since ShareFS doesn't work, they've broken something along the
> way...

Yes, and I'd like to know what. Maybe if I had 1.01 EtherI it would help.

> > > If you *really* want Internet 5, I'd recommend loading it *very* early
> > > in the NC boot file (i.e. the first thing).
> >
> > Then the network connection goes bye bye. Thet's the point of newstack,
> > but it decides it'll be a good time to do all the other modules at the
> > same time.
>

> Yes, you'll loose the network stack, which is why you have to have all that

^^ erk!! You'd better be careful, try using threadlock on the
screws ;-)

> guff on with a RAM/CacheFS disc...

Yes, and that's what newstack does, but you told me that it was evil but that
I should load Inet5 early on if I waned to.

> [ Dickon's NFSServer ]

>
> > > I've got a working version. If you're stuck, give me an email...
> >
> > I am stuck, I just need either NfsServer:NfsServer or the compiler to
> > compile it. Is it mailable?
>

> Yes, give me an email. It's a 93KB zip. UUcode/MIME will make it a little
> bigger, obviously.

OK

> > > > Don't expect a reply for a while - I get my RS TOMORROW!
> > >

> > > But you need to do a multi-page review for c.s.a.hardware!!! :-)
> >
> > This is hardware though! Will 5 pages of 'Mmmmmmm' do?
>

> No! :-p

Aw, well I hope your pages are small...

> > Interestingly, on *podules it gives in slot 4 (or was it 3) Extended
> > prdule type &0300 or something and in the network it says either none,
> > Simple podule or Acorn Econet card. Very strange I'd say.
>

> If you put an Acorn podule in an NC, it does something like that! :-)

Oh? When I put one there it just ignored it, so said network not contacted -
click to try again.

>
> > Problems I have encountered are the serial port doesn't work, nor does
> > the RJ45 network port (yet)
>

> Why? Any clues? No drivers?

No, it said that I should send away the registration card to get net drivers
and CD ROMs and Manuals soon...
If I plug the serial port in to an A5000 and watch in connector the left most
light flashes and it beeps but the second and fourth stay on and it says
Online. I tried serialNET and it seems to be a loopback interface at more
than 9600bps - sending messages came to myself and opening windows onto the
RAM disc and creating directories. Sending anything too great just locked up
at 'Receiving disc structure...' like the HD, and I had to press stop.

> > I was sure there were supposed to be 2 serial ports though?
>

> Maybe one is only a header on the PCB...

Yes, it is.

> or it's only a software-handshake one (yuk!)... or it didn't work, so they
> binned it!
>

> > Apart from those minor setbacks, overall I think it is very good. It
> > seems as nippy as the StrongARM here for dragging windows around and
> > booting is very fast.
>

> Grand. I'm not astonished that the disc system is quick, since it would
> have to be *abysmal* to be any slower than those which Acorn built! :-)

The sound is nice, too.

>
> > for some reason there are no RO4 icons,
>

> Huh?! Even though it's running RISC OS 4?

You snipped the fact that I was talking about EasiWriter.

> > but the one at school has
>

> A RiscStation at school too?

No, copy of EasiWrtier!!
Although I think theirs ir EWPro or something better.
I think the Professional and Pro versions are confusing.

> > (on ncs - the utilitymodule is 4.50 there!).
>

> Ah, you've soft-loaded the icons on an NC!? Tsk! :-)

No, EasiWrtier, dear me.
Actually, when I did soft load them (they can be downloaded from the ROL
site) there were resounding cries of 'Yuk, green directories' I did try to
change them to blue using paint and the 'Filer' sprite out of configure
(which they obviously forgot to change), but they looked as bad, if not
worse.

> > That's all I can think of, ask any questions you want though if it's
> > 'Should I get one?' the answer is YES!
>

> That would be nice, but I don't have over half-a-grand to spend on one.
> :-(

Yes, in case anyone else is reading, although this seems to be our own thread
;-)
Time for a subject change I think!

BFN

Michael Curtis

unread,

Dec 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/29/99

to

In message <4977730F1E%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

[EasiWriter icons don't look like Writers (correct?)]
> No, EasiWrtier, dear me.
You could copy the icons out of Writer.

> Actually, when I did soft load them (they can be downloaded from the ROL
> site) there were resounding cries of 'Yuk, green directories' I did try to
> change them to blue using paint and the 'Filer' sprite out of configure
> (which they obviously forgot to change), but they looked as bad, if not
> worse.

I've got some dark green directories. They look a bit like the 3.7 ones
and they're a half way house between RO4 and RO3.7. I'll post them to
my website if you like.

Richard Walker

unread,

Dec 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/30/99

to

In message <4977730F1E%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <c0fd7749%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > In message <4976797046%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> > John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > In message <cc39287549%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > TopCat seems a bit dodgy to me, especially with the flash
> > > > re-programming...
> > >
> > > It's probably faster, or set up to run on NT.
> >
> > It's basically the same as standard, but they've removed NFS and popped
> > in LanManFS. Anyone can do that old trick.
>
> Yes but I tried the AU200CD boot on it and it crashed quite nicely. I
> think they've twaked some bits.

Indeed they have. Speaking of flashROM, I'd like to get mine sorted out...
I think the version of 'DoBootP' I'm using is broken... :-/ Anyone got a
flash image?!

> > However, since ShareFS doesn't work, they've broken something along the
> > way...
>
> Yes, and I'd like to know what. Maybe if I had 1.01 EtherI it would help.

Possibly. There could be more to it than that, though.

> > > > If you *really* want Internet 5, I'd recommend loading it *very*
> > > > early in the NC boot file (i.e. the first thing).
> > >
> > > Then the network connection goes bye bye. Thet's the point of
> > > newstack, but it decides it'll be a good time to do all the other
> > > modules at the same time.
> >
> > Yes, you'll loose the network stack, which is why you have to have all
> > that
>

> erk!! You'd better be careful, try using threadlock on the screws ;-)

Doh! :-)

> > guff on with a RAM/CacheFS disc...
>
> Yes, and that's what newstack does, but you told me that it was evil but
> that I should load Inet5 early on if I waned to.

Yes, NewStack is evil, and, yes, you need to do something *similar*... but
at least you'll be doing it *early*, and *outside* of the mess that is 'the
universal boot sequence'. :-)

> > > Interestingly, on *podules it gives in slot 4 (or was it 3) Extended
> > > prdule type &0300 or something and in the network it says either
> > > none, Simple podule or Acorn Econet card. Very strange I'd say.
> >
> > If you put an Acorn podule in an NC, it does something like that! :-)
>
> Oh? When I put one there it just ignored it, so said network not
> contacted - click to try again.

Yeah, that's because Resources:$.!Boot is being run. Look at it in Zap.

I meant if you switch the NC on, with SHIFT/* held down, and do *podules.

> > > Problems I have encountered are the serial port doesn't work, nor does
> > > the RJ45 network port (yet)
> >
> > Why? Any clues? No drivers?
>
> No, it said that I should send away the registration card to get net
> drivers and CD ROMs and Manuals soon...

Ah, so it's a bit of a 'rough' release. I suppose that's better than
delaying the machine, as long as you *will* get the drivers, and they will
be free. We don't want another RISC OS 3.0 kind of affair! :-)

> > > for some reason there are no RO4 icons,
> >
> > Huh?! Even though it's running RISC OS 4?
>
> You snipped the fact that I was talking about EasiWriter.

Ah! That explains a lot! I must have missed that!

> > > but the one at school has
> >
> > A RiscStation at school too?
>
> No, copy of EasiWrtier!!
> Although I think theirs ir EWPro or something better.
> I think the Professional and Pro versions are confusing.

Isn't it EasiWriter, EasiWriter Pro, EasiWriter Pro+ ? And ditto for
TechWriter?

--
Richard.

"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see."

John Duffell

unread,

Dec 30, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/30/99

to

In message <a5b6a77749%ZM...@jamjars.ihug.co.nz>
Michael Curtis <zmja_...@hello.to> wrote:

> In message <4977730F1E%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>

> [EasiWriter icons don't look like Writers (correct?)]
> > No, EasiWrtier, dear me.
> You could copy the icons out of Writer.

I don't have writer (or any of the others like ImageFS2, Vector, Organiser)
because I got it from Riscstation and I don't get any manuals or CDs yet
(except Drawworks and Ankh)

> > Actually, when I did soft load them (they can be downloaded from the ROL
> > site) there were resounding cries of 'Yuk, green directories' I did try
> > to change them to blue using paint and the 'Filer' sprite out of
> > configure (which they obviously forgot to change), but they looked as
> > bad, if not worse.

> I've got some dark green directories. They look a bit like the 3.7 ones
> and they're a half way house between RO4 and RO3.7. I'll post them to
> my website if you like.

Hmm, If you want, butI'll not be able to get them.

John
-- Remove 'spam' from the address to reply Mail (school):

jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk for a reply in schooltime Of course it's the
millennium this year, it's been the millennium since 1001!

John Duffell

unread,

Dec 31, 1999, 3:00:00 AM12/31/99

to

In message <ec1e427849%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <4977730F1E%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>

> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message <c0fd7749%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In message <4976797046%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> > > John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In message <cc39287549%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > > > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > TopCat seems a bit dodgy to me, especially with the flash
> > > > > re-programming...
> > > >
> > > > It's probably faster, or set up to run on NT.
> > >
> > > It's basically the same as standard, but they've removed NFS and popped
> > > in LanManFS. Anyone can do that old trick.
> >
> > Yes but I tried the AU200CD boot on it and it crashed quite nicely. I
> > think they've twaked some bits.
>

> Indeed they have. Speaking of flashROM, I'd like to get mine sorted out...
> I think the version of 'DoBootP' I'm using is broken... :-/ Anyone got a
> flash image?!

I can save it out using zap next year if you want.

>
> > > However, since ShareFS doesn't work, they've broken something along the
> > > way...
> >
> > Yes, and I'd like to know what. Maybe if I had 1.01 EtherI it would
> > help.
>

> Possibly. There could be more to it than that, though.

But Sharefs said that the possible causes were either freeway or net driver
and freeway was the same, Internet was the same, but the driver seems to not
be a standard one. Maybe it's a cut down one with not as many handles on and
sharefs relies on one or more of them.

> > > > > If you *really* want Internet 5, I'd recommend loading it *very*
> > > > > early in the NC boot file (i.e. the first thing).
> > > >
> > > > Then the network connection goes bye bye. Thet's the point of
> > > > newstack, but it decides it'll be a good time to do all the other
> > > > modules at the same time.
> > >
> > > Yes, you'll loose the network stack, which is why you have to have all
> > > that
> >

> > erk!! You'd better be careful, try using threadlock on the screws ;-)
>

> Doh! :-)

>
> > > guff on with a RAM/CacheFS disc...
> >
> > Yes, and that's what newstack does, but you told me that it was evil but
> > that I should load Inet5 early on if I waned to.
>

> Yes, NewStack is evil, and, yes, you need to do something *similar*... but
> at least you'll be doing it *early*, and *outside* of the mess that is 'the
> universal boot sequence'. :-)

Well I thought that the point of the UBS (sounds abit dodgy) was that it was
all self contained and you shove it on your hard disc in one place and you
can do all sorts of wonderful things without having to do strange things.
Then MicroLynx came into te equation and now the enable sharefs option has no
effect.

> > > > Interestingly, on *podules it gives in slot 4 (or was it 3) Extended
> > > > prdule type &0300 or something and in the network it says either
> > > > none, Simple podule or Acorn Econet card. Very strange I'd say.
> > >
> > > If you put an Acorn podule in an NC, it does something like that! :-)
> >
> > Oh? When I put one there it just ignored it, so said network not
> > contacted - click to try again.
>

> Yeah, that's because Resources:$.!Boot is being run. Look at it in Zap.

I have, very interesting it is too.

> I meant if you switch the NC on, with SHIFT/* held down, and do *podules.

Oh, yes, obviously.

> > > > Problems I have encountered are the serial port doesn't work,

It does now! Strangely enough.

> > > > nor does the RJ45 network port (yet)
> > >
> > > Why? Any clues? No drivers?
> >
> > No, it said that I should send away the registration card to get net
> > drivers and CD ROMs and Manuals soon...
>

> Ah, so it's a bit of a 'rough' release. I suppose that's better than
> delaying the machine, as long as you *will* get the drivers, and they will
> be free. We don't want another RISC OS 3.0 kind of affair! :-)

You also have to hold the power swith down for 1-2 seconds to turn it off.
The good news for BBC Micro fans is that it makes the same beeping noise as
the micro almost when it's switched on!!

> > > > for some reason there are no RO4 icons,
> > >
> > > Huh?! Even though it's running RISC OS 4?
> >
> > You snipped the fact that I was talking about EasiWriter.
>

> Ah! That explains a lot! I must have missed that!

I even checked myself that I hadn't missed it.

> > > > but the one at school has
> > >
> > > A RiscStation at school too?
> >
> > No, copy of EasiWrtier!!
> > Although I think theirs ir EWPro or something better.
> > I think the Professional and Pro versions are confusing.
>

> Isn't it EasiWriter, EasiWriter Pro, EasiWriter Pro+ ? And ditto for
> TechWriter?

Mine is Easiwriter Professional, 4.0x, at school it/s EW Pro 5.0x I believe
Pro+ are v7.0x

BFN

John
--
Remove 'spam' from the address to reply
Mail (school): jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk for a reply in schooltime

Richard Walker

unread,

Jan 1, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/1/00

to

In message <4978FFCA21%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <ec1e427849%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > Speaking of flashROM, I'd like to get mine sorted out... I think the
> > version of 'DoBootP' I'm using is broken... :-/ Anyone got a flash
> > image?!
>
> I can save it out using zap next year if you want.

Hmm. Do you have an NFS image, are all your flashROMs LanManFS?

[ ShareFS not working ]

> But Sharefs said that the possible causes were either freeway or net
> driver and freeway was the same, Internet was the same, but the driver
> seems to not be a standard one. Maybe it's a cut down one with not as
> many handles on and sharefs relies on one or more of them.

Quite possibly. I'd suggest a word, or several, to MicroLynx.

If you get fed up with MicroLynx, see http://www.precedence.co.uk who know
everything there is to know about NCs!

> > Yes, NewStack is evil, and, yes, you need to do something *similar*...
> > but at least you'll be doing it *early*, and *outside* of the mess that
> > is 'the universal boot sequence'. :-)
>
> Well I thought that the point of the UBS (sounds abit dodgy) was that it
> was all self contained and you shove it on your hard disc in one place
> and you can do all sorts of wonderful things without having to do strange
> things.

Theoretically, yes, but it was never really finished.

> Then MicroLynx came into te equation and now the enable sharefs option
> has no effect.

Mutter, mutter... that speaks volumes about TopCat... mutter, mutter...

[ RiscStation ]

> You also have to hold the power swith down for 1-2 seconds to turn it
> off

That's normal for ATX (software controlled) power supplies. If you do a
'shutdown' (from RISC OS), does the machine switch itself off?

On PCs, the delay is generally 4-8 seconds! I get a sore finger doing all
those re-boots! ;-)

> The good news for BBC Micro fans is that it makes the same beeping noise
> as the micro almost when it's switched on!!

Excellent!

--
Richard.

"I wanna hold your hand, I wanna hold your hand."

Stuart Tyrrell

unread,

Jan 2, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/2/00

to

In message <2b799b7949%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <4978FFCA21%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> > You also have to hold the power swith down for 1-2 seconds to turn

> > it off

>
> That's normal for ATX (software controlled) power supplies. If you
> do a 'shutdown' (from RISC OS), does the machine switch itself off?
>
> On PCs, the delay is generally 4-8 seconds! I get a sore finger
> doing all those re-boots! ;-)

Just to clarify - this is actually the "emergency" shutdown procedure.

"Normally" (read: when all the user-land software is ready for
release), pressing (tapping?) the power button will invoke a safe
shutdown and power-off of the machine - similarly you will be able to
configure a desktop shutdown to invoke the same procedure.

I do have test code which will power the machine off from the command
line/filer etc, but this really can't be released (please don't ask!)
as the full system involves the use of a DDC support module (and as
DDC isn't re-entrant, I don't want people messing with test programs
when they'll eventually have DDCSupport in their boot sequence). For
the purposes of this paragraph, DDC is an IIC-alike method of
communicating with the power-control processor, with hardware and
firmware extensions which allow connection through to the monitor (so
we can eventually read refresh rates etc from the monitor directly).

For the time being you have to rely on the "hardware-only" power-off
method, which is, as John mentioned, invoked by holding down the power
button for a few seconds.

As I mentioned, all these extensions are in user-land (the mad rush
was to get ROMmable code and Firmware set in stone), and I presume
RiscStation will make them available to all customers as they come
out of test.

> > The good news for BBC Micro fans is that it makes the same beeping
> > noise as the micro almost when it's switched on!!
>

> Excellent!

You don't know how long it took me to tune that up! It's still not
quite right, but it's close enough.

I wonder if I'm allowed to mention that the startup/down/buttonpress
tunes can be downloaded to the power management processor? My machine
plays a poor rendition of the Death March when it powers off ;-)

Stuart
(speaking for myself - nothing in this posting is by or on behalf of
RiscStation Ltd).
--
Stuart Tyrrell Developments Stu...@stdevel.demon.co.uk
PO Box 183, OLDHAM. OL2 8FB http://www.stdevel.demon.co.uk
Tel: 01706 848 600 Orange: 0976 255 256 dFax: 0870 164 1604
** NEW Acorn Trackball UKP34.95 Use PS/2 devices only UKP 24.95 **

John Duffell

unread,

Jan 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/4/00

to

In message <2b799b7949%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <4978FFCA21%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>

> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message <ec1e427849%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Speaking of flashROM, I'd like to get mine sorted out... I think the
> > > version of 'DoBootP' I'm using is broken... :-/ Anyone got a flash
> > > image?!
> >
> > I can save it out using zap next year if you want.
>

> Hmm. Do you have an NFS image, are all your flashROMs LanManFS?

They're lmfs, but NFS is in main rom IIRC.

> [ ShareFS not working ]

>
> > But Sharefs said that the possible causes were either freeway or net
> > driver and freeway was the same, Internet was the same, but the driver
> > seems to not be a standard one. Maybe it's a cut down one with not as
> > many handles on and sharefs relies on one or more of them.
>

> Quite possibly. I'd suggest a word, or several, to MicroLynx.

Hmm

> If you get fed up with MicroLynx, see http://www.precedence.co.uk who know
> everything there is to know about NCs!

Oh I'm fed up alright, do precedence supply nice _*RELIABLE*_ (ie not NT)
servers at nice prices. I suppose an SA_RPC would be OK, but 10Mbit leaves a
bit to be desired, an since there's no overlapping i/o gubbins it would get
rather slow. Linux, anyone?

> > > Yes, NewStack is evil, and, yes, you need to do something *similar*...
> > > but at least you'll be doing it *early*, and *outside* of the mess that
> > > is 'the universal boot sequence'. :-)
> >
> > Well I thought that the point of the UBS (sounds abit dodgy) was that it
> > was all self contained and you shove it on your hard disc in one place
> > and you can do all sorts of wonderful things without having to do strange
> > things.
>

> Theoretically, yes, but it was never really finished.

What was the intention?
I wonder if it's legal to muck around with Choices$* and Boot$ToBe*, as I
have in my logon prog.

> > Then MicroLynx came into te equation and now the enable sharefs option
> > has no effect.
>

> Mutter, mutter... that speaks volumes about TopCat... mutter, mutter...

I don't know, I'll email them, and If I don't get a satisfactory response
I'll recommend a change.

[snip]

In message <497A3E0018%Stu...@stdevel.demon.co.uk>
Stuart Tyrrell <Stu...@stdevel.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <2b799b7949%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>

> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > In message <4978FFCA21%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> > John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>

> > > You also have to hold the power swith down for 1-2 seconds to turn

> > > it off
> >
> > That's normal for ATX (software controlled) power supplies. If you
> > do a 'shutdown' (from RISC OS), does the machine switch itself off?
> >
> > On PCs, the delay is generally 4-8 seconds! I get a sore finger
> > doing all those re-boots! ;-)
>
> Just to clarify - this is actually the "emergency" shutdown procedure.

Yes, I realised. Actually, if I bypass the boot seq, it is impossible to
switch off without pulling the plug!

> "Normally" (read: when all the user-land software is ready for
> release), pressing (tapping?) the power button will invoke a safe
> shutdown and power-off of the machine - similarly you will be able to
> configure a desktop shutdown to invoke the same procedure.

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

>
[snip]

> (so we can eventually read refresh rates etc from the monitor directly).

See above ;-)

> For the time being you have to rely on the "hardware-only" power-off
> method, which is, as John mentioned, invoked by holding down the power
> button for a few seconds.

Which is used as often on windoze when it's crashed...

> As I mentioned, all these extensions are in user-land (the mad rush
> was to get ROMmable code and Firmware set in stone), and I presume
> RiscStation will make them available to all customers as they come
> out of test.

I hope so, along with NetWork DriVerS, hint hint.

> > > The good news for BBC Micro fans is that it makes the same beeping
> > > noise as the micro almost when it's switched on!!
> >

> > Excellent!
>
> You don't know how long it took me to tune that up! It's still not
> quite right, but it's close enough.

Oh, I thought it was coincidence. Sorry ;-)

> I wonder if I'm allowed to mention that the startup/down/buttonpress
> tunes can be downloaded to the power management processor? My machine
> plays a poor rendition of the Death March when it powers off ;-)

I bet you don't hear that often.

BTW When the CD drive stops spinning and I try to access a file it gives an
error the forst time, and the speakers crackle and the monitor flashes
occasionally in high bandwidth modes.

BFN

JOhn

John Munro

unread,

Jan 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/4/00

to

John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

As a satisfied precedence customer I can vouch for the servers tey
supply. Basically, its a NETBSD system running on Chaltech's
(Simtec/Causality) Strongarm PCI system. It seems to be actively
developed and support is pretty decent.

I use it to support 20 NCs plus handle IMAP and POP3 email for
approximately 1100 users. It also handles file serving for around 40
concurrent machines.

As a server it isn't the fastest in the world, but it is rock solid. The
complete Precedence package turns the NC into a very useable machine.

[snip]
--
John Munro
Ageing but prolific. Lucky number 7. Likes Triangles with a view.

Richard Walker

unread,

Jan 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/4/00

to

In message <497B0C10DF%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <2b799b7949%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > In message <4978FFCA21%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> > John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > In message <ec1e427849%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Speaking of flashROM, I'd like to get mine sorted out... I think
> > > > the version of 'DoBootP' I'm using is broken... :-/ Anyone got a
> > > > flash image?!
> > >
> > > I can save it out using zap next year if you want.
> >
> > Hmm. Do you have an NFS image, are all your flashROMs LanManFS?
>
> They're lmfs, but NFS is in main rom IIRC.

Yes, but the version on the flashROM is usually newer... Also, I'd rather
have a complete flash image than to have to play about with individual
modules!

> > If you get fed up with MicroLynx, see http://www.precedence.co.uk who
> > know everything there is to know about NCs!
>
> Oh I'm fed up alright, do precedence supply nice _*RELIABLE*_ (ie not NT)
> servers at nice prices.

Yes.

> I suppose an SA_RPC would be OK, but 10Mbit leaves a bit to be desired,
> an since there's no overlapping i/o gubbins it would get rather slow.
> Linux, anyone?

Precedence supply server solutions based around NetBSD. If you want to do
the ICA-marlarky, they recommend a Windows NT server (*just* for ICA).

The actual servers from Precedence are Simtec CATS machines... which run
NetBSD/arm32 (aka RiscBSD). Obviously, the same NetBSD will work on a Risc
PC, and it's a route which Precedence suggest if you are on a shoestring!

Hmm... has anyone tried using something like WINE (with an x86 UNIX) across
an networked X-session?! Does Word work?!

> > > I thought that the point of the UBS (sounds abit dodgy) was that it
> > > was all self contained and you shove it on your hard disc in one
> > > place and you can do all sorts of wonderful things without having to
> > > do strange things.
> >
> > Theoretically, yes, but it was never really finished.
>
> What was the intention?

No, it was supposed to be finished, but only as a 'nice extra'. Really, I
suspect that as long as it was OK under RISC OS 3.5, 3.6 and 3.7, Acorn
didn't care (and quite rightly so). As it turned out, there wasn't enough
time to do a little more coding and a lot more testing!

> I wonder if it's legal to muck around with Choices$* and Boot$ToBe*, as I
> have in my logon prog.

Legal as in 'social behaviour'?! :-) Probably not!

--
Richard.

"You think you lost your love, when I saw her yesterday."

John Duffell

unread,

Jan 8, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/8/00

to

In message <222e557b49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <497B0C10DF%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>

> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message <2b799b7949%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In message <4978FFCA21%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> > > John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > In message <ec1e427849%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > > > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

[snip]
> modules!

>
> > > If you get fed up with MicroLynx, see http://www.precedence.co.uk who
> > > know everything there is to know about NCs!
> >
> > Oh I'm fed up alright, do precedence supply nice _*RELIABLE*_ (ie not NT)
> > servers at nice prices.
>

> Yes.

>
> > I suppose an SA_RPC would be OK, but 10Mbit leaves a bit to be desired,
> > an since there's no overlapping i/o gubbins it would get rather slow.
> > Linux, anyone?
>

> Precedence supply server solutions based around NetBSD. If you want to do
> the ICA-marlarky, they recommend a Windows NT server (*just* for ICA).

Well they can't do much else without getting into trouble.

> The actual servers from Precedence are Simtec CATS machines... which run
> NetBSD/arm32 (aka RiscBSD). Obviously, the same NetBSD will work on a Risc
> PC, and it's a route which Precedence suggest if you are on a shoestring!

I'll have to mail them or something. I'm sure we can nick an RPC from
somewhere.

> Hmm... has anyone tried using something like WINE (with an x86 UNIX) across
> an networked X-session?! Does Word work?!
>

> > > > I thought that the point of the UBS (sounds abit dodgy) was that it
> > > > was all self contained and you shove it on your hard disc in one
> > > > place and you can do all sorts of wonderful things without having to
> > > > do strange things.
> > >
> > > Theoretically, yes, but it was never really finished.
> >
> > What was the intention?
>

> No, it was supposed to be finished, but only as a 'nice extra'. Really, I
> suspect that as long as it was OK under RISC OS 3.5, 3.6 and 3.7, Acorn
> didn't care (and quite rightly so). As it turned out, there wasn't enough
> time to do a little more coding and a lot more testing!

But I mean what things did they miss out? What needed testing a lot more?

>
> > I wonder if it's legal to muck around with Choices$* and Boot$ToBe*, as I
> > have in my logon prog.
>

> Legal as in 'social behaviour'?! :-) Probably not!

No, will I break anything. The idea is to store everyones choices in their
Home directory, and Choices:Boot.Desktop and <Boot$ToBeTasks> are run when
they log on. This means that they can set up their own choices and save them
where they can see them and not taking up any space or causing a security
risk anywhere else. Also any apps which need to write to
<choices$Write>.Boot.Desktop will be able to and it will be run on logon.
The only thing is that it sounds a bit dodgy and might break programs
(although it shouldn't from looking at PRM5) I have tried to do it to leave
things similar to the MchConfig thing.

BFN

John

And in message <8124417b...@foulis.freeserve.co.uk>
John Munro <jmu...@foulis.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> As a satisfied precedence customer I can vouch for the servers tey supply.
> Basically, its a NETBSD system running on Chaltech's (Simtec/Causality)
> Strongarm PCI system. It seems to be actively developed and support is
> pretty decent.
>
> I use it to support 20 NCs plus handle IMAP and POP3 email for
> approximately 1100 users. It also handles file serving for around 40
> concurrent machines.

Sounds good, One NT 400MHz couldn't even handle Internet, Mail and file
sharing (Home dirs, not boot)
Would it be OK with 50NCs though?

> As a server it isn't the fastest in the world, but it is rock solid. The
> complete Precedence package turns the NC into a very useable machine.
>
>
> [snip]

BFN

John

Richard Walker

unread,

Jan 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/9/00

to

In message <497D18EBD4%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <222e557b49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > Precedence supply server solutions based around NetBSD. If you want to
> > do the ICA-marlarky, they recommend a Windows NT server (*just* for
> > ICA).
>
> Well they can't do much else without getting into trouble.

Why? They *could* have decided to supply 100% NT servers, and not use
NetSDB at all. However, they realise that Windows NT is pants. :-)

> > The actual servers from Precedence are Simtec CATS machines... which
> > run NetBSD/arm32 (aka RiscBSD). Obviously, the same NetBSD will work
> > on a Risc PC, and it's a route which Precedence suggest if you are on a
> > shoestring!
>
> I'll have to mail them or something. I'm sure we can nick an RPC from
> somewhere.

:-) That would do for testing out (half?) a dozen machines, I suppose.

> > Hmm... has anyone tried using something like WINE (with an x86 UNIX)
> > across an networked X-session?! Does Word work?!

It looks like I'll have to try this sometime! :-)

[ Universal boot ]

> > No, it was supposed to be finished, but only as a 'nice extra'.
> > Really, I suspect that as long as it was OK under RISC OS 3.5, 3.6 and
> > 3.7, Acorn didn't care (and quite rightly so). As it turned out, there
> > wasn't enough time to do a little more coding and a lot more testing!
>
> But I mean what things did they miss out? What needed testing a lot
> more?

Well, in my opinion, the RISC OS 3.1 support is not very good. Mainly,
it's the dreaded NewStack, and issues like running InetSetup from a
discless network client, to change it's network configuration.

I've found that the universal boot sequence works fine across a range of
systems (A3000 to A7000) so long as you do your own RISC OS 3.1 support,
disable NewStack, and delete Configure/InetSetup! :-)

> > > I wonder if it's legal to muck around with Choices$* and Boot$ToBe*,
> > > as I have in my logon prog.
> >

> > Legal as in 'social behaviour'?! :-) Probably not!
>
> No, will I break anything. The idea is to store everyones choices in
> their Home directory, and Choices:Boot.Desktop and <Boot$ToBeTasks> are
> run when they log on. This means that they can set up their own choices
> and save them where they can see them and not taking up any space or
> causing a security risk anywhere else. Also any apps which need to write
> to <choices$Write>.Boot.Desktop will be able to and it will be run on
> logon. The only thing is that it sounds a bit dodgy and might break
> programs (although it shouldn't from looking at PRM5) I have tried to do
> it to leave things similar to the MchConfig thing.

I don't see why you are doing this. All the per-machine stuff is done by
'!Boot', and that is what Choices$* and MchConfig are for.

If you want some kind of logon script, like the old '!ArmBoot', then, well,
I wouldn't mess around with Choices$*.

Mind you, I see that you're trying to achieve... this "let each user have
their own choices" theory, and I suppose it works. If I was manager, I
just wouldn't allow it. It could cause too much hassle, and I couldn't be
bothered! :-) On a network I used to run, the only application which
users had their own 'preferences' for was Fresco (the Hotlist!). And, to
make Fresco look in their directory, I just tweaked Fresco's '!Run' and
'Choices' files.

John Munro

unread,

Jan 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/9/00

to

Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <497D18EBD4%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>

> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message <222e557b49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Precedence supply server solutions based around NetBSD. If you want to
> > > do the ICA-marlarky, they recommend a Windows NT server (*just* for
> > > ICA).
> >
> > Well they can't do much else without getting into trouble.
>
> Why? They *could* have decided to supply 100% NT servers, and not use
> NetSDB at all. However, they realise that Windows NT is pants. :-)

or more importantly that NetBSD doesn't cost an arm and leg for
licensing?

Richard Walker

unread,

Jan 9, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/9/00

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In message <d7b0ca7d...@foulis.freeserve.co.uk>
John Munro <jmu...@foulis.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

[ Precedence ]

> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > Why? They *could* have decided to supply 100% NT servers, and not use
> > NetSDB at all. However, they realise that Windows NT is pants. :-)
>
> or more importantly that NetBSD doesn't cost an arm and leg for
> licensing?

Ah, yes, well... there is that! ;-)

--
Richard.

"Bang bang Maxwell's silver hammer made sure that she was dead."

John Duffell

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Jan 10, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/10/00

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In message <c75a687d49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <497D18EBD4%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>

> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message <222e557b49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Precedence supply server solutions based around NetBSD. If you want to
> > > do the ICA-marlarky, they recommend a Windows NT server (*just* for
> > > ICA).
> >
> > Well they can't do much else without getting into trouble.
>

> Why? They *could* have decided to supply 100% NT servers, and not use
> NetSDB at all. However, they realise that Windows NT is pants. :-)

Trouble as in crashes & crawling! I meant trouble as in with anything other
than *just* ICA.

[snip]

> > I'll have to mail them or something. I'm sure we can nick an RPC from
> > somewhere.
>
> :-) That would do for testing out (half?) a dozen machines, I suppose.

Hum.

[snip]

> > > No, it was supposed to be finished, but only as a 'nice extra'.
> > > Really, I suspect that as long as it was OK under RISC OS 3.5, 3.6 and
> > > 3.7, Acorn didn't care (and quite rightly so). As it turned out, there
> > > wasn't enough time to do a little more coding and a lot more testing!
> >
> > But I mean what things did they miss out? What needed testing a lot
> > more?
>
> Well, in my opinion, the RISC OS 3.1 support is not very good. Mainly,
> it's the dreaded NewStack, and issues like running InetSetup from a
> discless network client, to change it's network configuration.

It appears in apps, and the only issue is speed of loading really. I'd use
*configure commands though or hand editing.

> I've found that the universal boot sequence works fine across a range of
> systems (A3000 to A7000) so long as you do your own RISC OS 3.1 support,
> disable NewStack, and delete Configure/InetSetup! :-)

/IF/ it's not all bunged on an NT svr.

>
> > > > I wonder if it's legal to muck around with Choices$* and Boot$ToBe*,
> > > > as I have in my logon prog.
> > >

> > > Legal as in 'social behaviour'?! :-) Probably not!
> >
> > No, will I break anything. The idea is to store everyones choices in
> > their Home directory, and Choices:Boot.Desktop and <Boot$ToBeTasks> are
> > run when they log on. This means that they can set up their own choices
> > and save them where they can see them and not taking up any space or
> > causing a security risk anywhere else. Also any apps which need to write
> > to <choices$Write>.Boot.Desktop will be able to and it will be run on
> > logon. The only thing is that it sounds a bit dodgy and might break
> > programs (although it shouldn't from looking at PRM5) I have tried to do
> > it to leave things similar to the MchConfig thing.
>
> I don't see why you are doing this. All the per-machine stuff is done by
> '!Boot', and that is what Choices$* and MchConfig are for.

Yes, per *machine*. There's *NO* support at all for per user which, in a
school is the only thing worth having, per machine is useless unless you use
the same machine all the time.

> If you want some kind of logon script, like the old '!ArmBoot', then, well,
> I wouldn't mess around with Choices$*.

But apps which expect to save there will fail - I thought the idea of acorns
doodahs was to make sure that it was forward compatible and could be expanded
without changing apps, but just !Boot.

> Mind you, I see that you're trying to achieve... this "let each user have
> their own choices" theory, and I suppose it works. If I was manager, I
> just wouldn't allow it.

Oh, you know, 'Has it crashed again? Yes Are you stressed? *Yes* Have you
lost theterminalservercd? *YES* CanIsetupthisnewchoicessystemto wasteloadsof
spaceontheserver? _*YES*_ ;-)

> It could cause too much hassle, and I couldn't be bothered! :-) On a
> network I used to run, the only application which users had their own
> 'preferences' for was Fresco (the Hotlist!). And, to make Fresco look in
> their directory, I just tweaked Fresco's '!Run' and 'Choices' files.

Hmmm tweaking files, what we're supposed to avoid. The choices /will/ be
stord in the users' own space which should be quotad anyway.

BFN

John

Michael Curtis

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Jan 12, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/12/00

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In message <497E68D800%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> > I don't see why you are doing this. All the per-machine stuff is done by
> > '!Boot', and that is what Choices$* and MchConfig are for.
>
> Yes, per *machine*. There's *NO* support at all for per user which, in a
> school is the only thing worth having, per machine is useless unless you use
> the same machine all the time.

(just thought I'd pop my head up)
I have written a piece of software called Commune, that allows me to
"log in" to the machine and have everything set up the way I like.

If you want it, I can send you it. It needs configuration via a
scripting language.

Commune has support for message popups, global & user scripts,
applications quit at log off, keeping track of time spent logged in.

John Duffell

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Jan 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/13/00

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Michael Curtis wrote:

Hmmmmmmmmmm sounds exactly what I've done!
Very good. So did you change choices* then?
I have my logon prog on 4 computers so far and it seems ok.
Also, I tried Fresco but it's not working (refuses to fetch pages) and MimeMap is
OK
I hope we haven't wasted money on it.

TIA

John

Richard Walker

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Jan 13, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/13/00

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In message <387DB75B...@egglescliffe.org.uk>
John Duffell <jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk> wrote:

> Also, I tried Fresco but it's not working (refuses to fetch pages) and
> MimeMap is OK I hope we haven't wasted money on it.

Hmm. You are *still* having this problem?! :-O

What actually happens when you enter a URL?

Do you have to configure a proxy?

Are you running from LanManFS?

I'd try it myself, on an NC, but I don't have JavaScript Fresco.

--
Richard.

"This happened once before, when I came to your door, no reply."

John Duffell

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Jan 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/15/00

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In message <65b9c97f49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <387DB75B...@egglescliffe.org.uk>
> John Duffell <jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Also, I tried Fresco but it's not working (refuses to fetch pages) and
> > MimeMap is OK I hope we haven't wasted money on it.
>
> Hmm. You are *still* having this problem?! :-O

Yes, I think I tried all the suggestions given here, and none worked :-(

> What actually happens when you enter a URL?

It says soething like 'Connecting to host...' and just sits there forever.

> Do you have to configure a proxy?

Yes, but even if I don't, it still won't even fetch pages on the LAN.

> Are you running from LanManFS?

Yes, but I thought they'd fixed the caching when in some code they shouldn't
be in. I might mail ANT support and ask if there are still isses with
LanManFS, they dont' support NCs but LanmanFS isn't necessarily that.

> I'd try it myself, on an NC, but I don't have JavaScript Fresco.

I don't even know if normal works, but do you use LanmanFS or ShareFS? I'm
sure you've already heard my SharefS probs! If EtherI 1.01 is small, you
couldn't send me it (jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk) please to try?

TIA

John

Richard Walker

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Jan 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/15/00

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In message <4980B7EAF0%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <65b9c97f49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > What actually happens when you enter a URL?
>
> It says soething like 'Connecting to host...' and just sits there
> forever.

Hmm.

> > Do you have to configure a proxy?
>
> Yes, but even if I don't, it still won't even fetch pages on the LAN.

Erky! Can the NCs ping the web server OK? Does ArcWeb/Webite/Browse work?

Does an older Fresco work? An older 'HTTPmod'? Do you have the SSL
version of HTTPmod?

> > Are you running from LanManFS?
>
> Yes, but I thought they'd fixed the caching when in some code they
> shouldn't be in. I might mail ANT support and ask if there are still
> isses with LanManFS, they dont' support NCs but LanmanFS isn't
> necessarily that.

If you can, try it from another filing system... NFS, LanMan98 or ShareFS.
Hey, maybe even try Fresco and Scrap in a RAMFS/CacheFS/MemFS 'disc'.

> > I'd try it myself, on an NC, but I don't have JavaScript Fresco.
>
> I don't even know if normal works,

Ah, so this is your 'first Fresco'?

> but do you use LanmanFS or ShareFS?

At the moment, NFS. I did use ShareFS (until recently) and it was fine.
I'm hoping to use LanMan98 in the future.

> I'm sure you've already heard my SharefS probs! If EtherI 1.01 is small,
> you couldn't send me it (jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk) please to try?

I'll try and do so, but my NC isn't plugged in at the moment, and I can't
boot it from anything, since the Linux box is in bits. :-(

Tim Howarth

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Jan 15, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/15/00

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In message <4980B7EAF0%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <65b9c97f49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>

> Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
>
> > In message <387DB75B...@egglescliffe.org.uk>
> > John Duffell <jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> > > Also, I tried Fresco but it's not working (refuses to fetch pages) and
> > > MimeMap is OK I hope we haven't wasted money on it.
> >
> > Hmm. You are *still* having this problem?! :-O
>
> Yes, I think I tried all the suggestions given here, and none worked :-(
>

> > What actually happens when you enter a URL?
>
> It says soething like 'Connecting to host...' and just sits there forever.

Thought I'd mentioned this (AFAICT/AFAIAA etc.).

Standalone Fresco does not work with !Scrap on a LanManFS mount when run
on an NC.

Ant changed Fresco (around 1.7 ish) to work with !Scrap on LanManFS but
for some reason that only works on "real" Acorns.

We load MemFS and when Fresco starts, if run on an NC it will point
scrapdir at memfs (you could use cacheFS but that causes OLE problems).

This is faster than networked scrap and doesn't cause too many problems
even on 8Mb NCs - though we do get the odd problem with e.g. !Style when
an NC has become over stuffed ! (I'm pondering clearing Scrap at
logoff.)

> > Are you running from LanManFS?
>
> Yes, but I thought they'd fixed the caching when in some code they shouldn't
> be in. I might mail ANT support and ask if there are still isses with
> LanManFS, they dont' support NCs but LanmanFS isn't necessarily that.

I don't know why the fix doesn't work with NCs but we have 180 of the
things happily able to use Fresco (1.83 IIRC) with RAM based scrap.

--
___
|im ---- ARM Powered ----

John Duffell

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Jan 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/17/00

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Tim Howarth wrote:

> In message <4980B7EAF0%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>
> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message <65b9c97f49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>

> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In message <387DB75B...@egglescliffe.org.uk>
> > > John Duffell <jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Also, I tried Fresco but it's not working (refuses to fetch pages) and
> > > > MimeMap is OK I hope we haven't wasted money on it.
> > >
> > > Hmm. You are *still* having this problem?! :-O
> >
> > Yes, I think I tried all the suggestions given here, and none worked :-(
> >
> > > What actually happens when you enter a URL?
> >
> > It says soething like 'Connecting to host...' and just sits there forever.
>
> Thought I'd mentioned this (AFAICT/AFAIAA etc.).
>
> Standalone Fresco does not work with !Scrap on a LanManFS mount when run
> on an NC.

Well done, ten thousand brownie points for you!
It now works, I have to make it more permenant, but that's the problem.

>
>
> Ant changed Fresco (around 1.7 ish) to work with !Scrap on LanManFS but
> for some reason that only works on "real" Acorns.
>
> We load MemFS and when Fresco starts, if run on an NC it will point
> scrapdir at memfs (you could use cacheFS but that causes OLE problems).
>
> This is faster than networked scrap and doesn't cause too many problems
> even on 8Mb NCs - though we do get the odd problem with e.g. !Style when
> an NC has become over stuffed ! (I'm pondering clearing Scrap at
> logoff.)

We have 16meg ones.

> [snip]

Thanks,
John

John Duffell

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Jan 17, 2000, 3:00:00 AM1/17/00

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In message <c71ae18049%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

> In message <4980B7EAF0%Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk>

> John Duffell <Jo...@SPAMduffellb.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > In message <65b9c97f49%ric...@nctv.freeserve.co.uk>
> > Richard Walker <runny...@mindless.com> wrote:

[fixed fixed fixed!]

> > > I'd try it myself, on an NC, but I don't have JavaScript Fresco.
> >
> > I don't even know if normal works,
>
> Ah, so this is your 'first Fresco'?

No I just didn't bother with the old 'cos it didn't have JS and Browse worked
(ish)

> > but do you use LanmanFS or ShareFS?
>
> At the moment, NFS. I did use ShareFS (until recently) and it was fine.
> I'm hoping to use LanMan98 in the future.

And what on the other end? Not windows!

> > I'm sure you've already heard my SharefS probs! If EtherI 1.01 is small,
> > you couldn't send me it (jo...@egglescliffe.org.uk) please to try?
>
> I'll try and do so, but my NC isn't plugged in at the moment, and I can't
> boot it from anything, since the Linux box is in bits. :-(

I was going to say switch it on with shift held down, but unless you can whip
the simm out and plug it into another machine within 60ns I'd say not.
Print it and OCR it ;-)

BFN

John