RISCOSmark results for MD Alpha 2.0GHz Celeron

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Mr J McCulloch

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Jul 12, 2003, 2:55:13 PM7/12/03
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Hi there,
The title really says it all, I got mine yesterday, it is very impressive, in
all sorts of ways. I specified Windows XP Pro and a combined DVD/CD R/W, over
the minimum spec.
It is very well made, and functioned as expected right out of the box.
Virtual RiscPC is excellent, a very useable product.
So here goes:

RISCOSmark 1.01 (14 May 2003)
Comparison with RiscPC SA 202MHz running RISC OS 4.02 800x600,256
(HD benchmarks are in kilobytes/sec)

OS/Machine/Processor: RISC OS 4.02/MD Alpha/2.0GHz Celeron(VRPC)
Graphics Resolution: 1024x768, 32K colours

Test Benchmark
Processor - Looped instructions (cache) 74629 41%
Memory - Multiple register transfer 397 245%
Rectangle Copy - Graphics acceleration test 410 169%
Icon Plotting - 16 colour sprite with mask 1029 51%
Draw Path - Stroke narrow line 570 36%
Draw Fill - Plot filled shape 740 50%
HD Read - Block load 1MB file 101386 3399%
HD Write - Block save 1MB file 67928 2233%
FS Read - Byte stream file in 649 313%
FS Write - Byte stream file out 328 170%

As a comparison my RiscPC gave these figures
RISCOSmark 1.01 (14 May 2003)
Comparison with RiscPC SA 202MHz running RISC OS 4.02 800x600,256
(HD benchmarks are in kilobytes/sec)

OS/Machine/Processor: RISC OS Select/Acorn RiscPC/202MHz SA
Graphics Resolution: 1024x768, 32K colours

Test Benchmark
Processor - Looped instructions (cache) 177404 99%
Memory - Multiple register transfer 160 98%
Rectangle Copy - Graphics acceleration test 2781 1149%
Icon Plotting - 16 colour sprite with mask 209 10%
Draw Path - Stroke narrow line 634 40%
Draw Fill - Plot filled shape 111 7%
HD Read - Block load 1MB file 1878 62%
HD Write - Block save 1MB file 767 25%
FS Read - Byte stream file in 820 396%
FS Write - Byte stream file out 281 146%

I collected my machine from the Dealer, and was able to play with a
production MD Omega, I would guess it is about twice as fast as RiscPC
overall till you use the disc drive, then wow it zooms.
73 de john
--
Email : jo...@jcmcc1srp.freeserve.co.uk
Callsign : GM1SRP (Class B)
Computer : Acorn RiscPC SA 202MHz RISC OS Select 3i1
Modem : Elsa MicroLink 56k Fun

Annraoi

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Jul 13, 2003, 11:31:10 AM7/13/03
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Mr J McCulloch <jo...@jcmcc1srp.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message news:<a466fc1...@jcmcc1srp.freeserve.co.uk>...

<snip>

Iconbar (www.iconbar.com) have a comparison between the Alpha and
various flavours of RISC PC and (of course) the Iyonix.

Regards


Annraoi

Peter Bell

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Aug 14, 2003, 4:07:40 AM8/14/03
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In message <4c218ea7...@argonet.co.uk>
David G Jones <jon...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> There seems to have been very little on this newsgroup (or any other I
> subscribe to) on the MicroDigital Alpha. Anyone out there like to
> tell the rest of us how it performs in use?

I am very pleased with my Alpha. It works well both in the Windows
world and in the RISC OS world.

> I'm looking for something my Son can use at Uni next term (2nd year
> MEng).

I'm also considering the possibility of getting one for my son to take
to Uni (A-level results in a couple of hours!)

> It needs to:
> - be able to access internet from the RiscOS side to help keep it virus-free
> - be able to run Techwriter and Fireworkz under RiscoOS
> - be able to run M$Word, M$Equation, Excel and M$IE and possibly
> Autocad 2000 on the Windoze side
> - be available by early September
> - and be reliable!

The Alpha will currently do all of the above, except the first item.
There is no direct connection from the RO side to the network
interface, although I am assured that this is being worked on.

Although it's not something I require, I believe that there is no
access to the modem from the RO side, either.

At present RO can access network shares and network printers served via
HostFS from the Windows side.

> Anyone willing and able to comment?

Other than the above (temporary?) restriction, it's an excellent
machine.

--
Peter Bell - pe...@bellfamily.org.uk

Kell Gatherer

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Aug 14, 2003, 8:54:32 AM8/14/03
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In article <04b4bf21...@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com>,
Peter Bell <pe...@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote:

> The Alpha will currently do all of the above, except the first item.
> There is no direct connection from the RO side to the network
> interface, although I am assured that this is being worked on.

...and until the network side is working, they'll get no sale from me,
despite the fact that I have been gagging for RISC OS on the move for many
a year.

I need the laptop to be able to sit in my network, and I need to be able
to FTP from RISC OS to my server.

Who assured you it is being worked on?

--
Kell Gatherer
ke...@locsource.com
The Location Source

charles

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Aug 14, 2003, 9:56:11 AM8/14/03
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In article <4c21d9f7...@locsource.com>,

I was told by both David Atkins & Aaron, so I suspect it is true.

However the PC side can be networked to my existing RISC PC, Iyonix and
Windows XP machines. Since the RISC "Virtual hard disc" is simply a file on
the Windows machine, you can enable sharing and collect/send files on it from
the other machines. This way you can take OVPro or DataPower files out on
the laptop (done both) to meetings and carry out updates in front of the
client.

Yes, not being able to network directly from the RISC side makes things
slightly slower, but it is still an extremely useful machine.

Peter Bell

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Aug 14, 2003, 11:03:47 AM8/14/03
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In message <4c21df9c...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>
charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <4c21d9f7...@locsource.com>,
> Kell Gatherer <nos...@locsource.com> wrote:
> > In article <04b4bf21...@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com>,
> > Peter Bell <pe...@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > > The Alpha will currently do all of the above, except the first item.
> > > There is no direct connection from the RO side to the network
> > > interface, although I am assured that this is being worked on.
>
> > ...and until the network side is working, they'll get no sale from me,
> > despite the fact that I have been gagging for RISC OS on the move for many
> > a year.
>
> > I need the laptop to be able to sit in my network, and I need to be able
> > to FTP from RISC OS to my server.
>
> > Who assured you it is being worked on?
>
> I was told by both David Atkins & Aaron, so I suspect it is true.

I was also told this by another guy (not sure whether it was Graeme
Barnes???) sitting in front of VA on the VA stand at Wakefield, who
assured me that access at the TCP socket level would be feasible.

> However the PC side can be networked to my existing RISC PC, Iyonix and
> Windows XP machines. Since the RISC "Virtual hard disc" is simply a file on
> the Windows machine, you can enable sharing and collect/send files on it from
> the other machines. This way you can take OVPro or DataPower files out on
> the laptop (done both) to meetings and carry out updates in front of the
> client.

Yep, and I have taken mine to another office, 20 miles away, fetched
Eureka, Publisher and Fireworkz files over the VPN from my Iyonix back
at my office, worked on them, printed out and saved them back to the
Iyonix. It does make life a great deal easier. It'll be even better
when I can telnet, ftp, browse, and read mail etc from the RO side.

I am also tending to use the Alpha, in preference to powering up the
RPC, when I need 26-bit compatibility. I'll be spoilt for choice once
I can get the Omega onto the network!

> Yes, not being able to network directly from the RISC side makes things
> slightly slower, but it is still an extremely useful machine.

Indeed. I even use it to run Windows programs, occasionally! :o

Jess

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Aug 14, 2003, 12:48:03 PM8/14/03
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In message <4c218ea7...@argonet.co.uk>
David G Jones <jon...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> There seems to have been very little on this newsgroup (or any other I
> subscribe to) on the MicroDigital Alpha. Anyone out there like to
> tell the rest of us how it performs in use?
>

> I'm looking for something my Son can use at Uni next term (2nd year

> MEng). It needs to:


> - be able to access internet from the RiscOS side to help keep it
> virus-free

When it is available risc os networking won't help against things like
the blastworm because XP will be providing the services, it will help
against nasties from email and web pages though.

> - be able to run Techwriter and Fireworkz under RiscoOS
> - be able to run M$Word, M$Equation, Excel and M$IE and possibly
> Autocad 2000 on the Windoze side
> - be available by early September
> - and be reliable!
>

> Anyone willing and able to comment?

Are there any alternatives to consider?

(An RPC with a PC card would do it, but the windows stuff would be
slow).


--
Jess icq: 91353267 msn: phant...@hotmail.com http://www.kentwebnet.com
Hotmail is my spam trap - don't use for email
mailto:nos...@itworkshop.uklinux.net
RISC OS 4.36 kinetic 64+128+2M Castle Storm DMA + 17GB 586-133 I-3 ADSL


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druck

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Aug 14, 2003, 12:53:28 PM8/14/03
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On 14 Aug 2003 Peter Bell <pe...@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote:
> In message <4c21df9c...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>
> charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In article <4c21d9f7...@locsource.com>,
>> Kell Gatherer <nos...@locsource.com> wrote:
>>> In article <04b4bf21...@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com>,
>>> Peter Bell <pe...@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> The Alpha will currently do all of the above, except the first item.
>>>> There is no direct connection from the RO side to the network interface,
>>>> although I am assured that this is being worked on.
>>
>>> ...and until the network side is working, they'll get no sale from me,
>>> despite the fact that I have been gagging for RISC OS on the move for
>>> many a year.
>>
>>> I need the laptop to be able to sit in my network, and I need to be able
>>> to FTP from RISC OS to my server.
>>
>>> Who assured you it is being worked on?
>>
>> I was told by both David Atkins & Aaron, so I suspect it is true.

It isn't being worked on, because I dont have any free time at the moment and
cant see any coming for months.



> I was also told this by another guy (not sure whether it was Graeme
> Barnes???) sitting in front of VA on the VA stand at Wakefield, who assured
> me that access at the TCP socket level would be feasible.

It is feasible, the prototype works with a limited set of applications, but I
don't have the time to write a comprehensive test suite to be able to fully
debug it. I can only work on it when I have access to a PC and thats during
office hours, which are being used for their primary purpose at the moment.

---druck

--
The ARM Club Free Software - http://www.armclub.org.uk/free/
The 32bit Conversions Page - http://www.quantumsoft.co.uk/druck/

Peter Bell

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Aug 14, 2003, 3:07:58 PM8/14/03
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In message <4ed7ef21...@druck.freeuk.net>
druck <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:

> On 14 Aug 2003 Peter Bell <pe...@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote:
> > In message <4c21df9c...@charleshope.demon.co.uk>
> > charles <cha...@charleshope.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <4c21d9f7...@locsource.com>,
> >> Kell Gatherer <nos...@locsource.com> wrote:
> >>> In article <04b4bf21...@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com>,
> >>> Peter Bell <pe...@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> The Alpha will currently do all of the above, except the first item.
> >>>> There is no direct connection from the RO side to the network interface,
> >>>> although I am assured that this is being worked on.

[Snip]

> It isn't being worked on, because I dont have any free time at the moment and
> cant see any coming for months.

Ah - that is disappointing. So my son will probably end up taking his
RPC to Warwick (yes, he got the grades!), unless we decide to get him
an Iyonix. I hope that he doesn't find that he needs a Windows box to
be able to meet his coursework requirements - the Alpha would have been
an ideal compromise.

> > I was also told this by another guy (not sure whether it was Graeme
> > Barnes???) sitting in front of VA on the VA stand at Wakefield, who assured
> > me that access at the TCP socket level would be feasible.
>
> It is feasible, the prototype works with a limited set of applications,

That's good to hear.

> but I don't have the time to write a comprehensive test suite to be
> able to fully debug it. I can only work on it when I have access to a
> PC and thats during office hours, which are being used for their
> primary purpose at the moment.

I guess we'll just have to be very patient.

Adam Richardson

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Aug 14, 2003, 5:35:03 PM8/14/03
to
In a message on 14 Aug, Peter Bell wrote:
> Ah - that is disappointing. So my son will probably end up taking his RPC
> to Warwick (yes, he got the grades!), unless we decide to get him an
Gongrats to him :-)

> Iyonix. I hope that he doesn't find that he needs a Windows box to be able
> to meet his coursework requirements - the Alpha would have been an ideal

I thought I'd add my 2c as I graduated not too long ago...

Your son will not "need" any computer in the sense that the University will
have good computing facilites (especially if it's engineering or similar)
with everything he will need.

Of course, if he want's to work at home that's another matter :-(
By the end of my degree I had my Risc PC for writing essays/projects on (BSc
Economics) and a cheapo PC I'd bought second hand from a dodgy little shop to
hook up to our broadband for internet research and stuff.

Of course, the problem with the PC is software - unless you are prepared to
pirate it then that's going to be a bit of a problem - especially things like
AutoCAD!


Hmmm, I don't think I've actually ended up saying much helpful - ah well,
I've writen it now...

Adam

--
Adam Richardson
Carpe Diem

A person who smiles in the face of adversity probably has a scapegoat.

Adam Richardson

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Aug 14, 2003, 5:37:04 PM8/14/03
to
In a message on 14 Aug, David G Jones wrote:

> - be able to run M$Word, M$Equation, Excel and M$IE and possibly
> Autocad 2000 on the Windoze side

I'd include Powerpoint in this list for an Engineering degree - paticularly
in 3rd/4th year.

Adam

--
Adam Richardson
Carpe Diem

Never do today, what you can put off until tomorrow.

Ralph Corderoy

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Aug 14, 2003, 6:04:25 PM8/14/03
to
Hi druck,

> It isn't being worked on, because I dont have any free time at the
> moment and cant see any coming for months.

I suspect that if you don't finish it someone, like Graeme!, will
implement it themselves, so unless you know the VA guys have no plans
other than your implementation you may be unwittingly misleading these
potential customers.

Cheers,

--
Ralph Corderoy. http://inputplus.co.uk/ralph/ http://troff.org/

Stuart Winsor

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Aug 14, 2003, 5:45:43 PM8/14/03
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In article <d727fc21...@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com>,

Peter Bell <pe...@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote:
> Ah - that is disappointing. So my son will probably end up taking his
> RPC to Warwick

Ahh, another possible for the "Midlands user group" - (see csa.misc)

Stuart

--
__ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________
|__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | /
| || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines
___________________________/ stuart...@argonet.co.uk

101 uses for a Pentium: No1 - A slow cooker.

Peter Bell

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Aug 14, 2003, 6:30:45 PM8/14/03
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In message <039f0922...@richardsons.argonet.co.uk>
Adam Richardson <cooladamr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> In a message on 14 Aug, Peter Bell wrote:
> > Ah - that is disappointing. So my son will probably end up taking his RPC
> > to Warwick (yes, he got the grades!), unless we decide to get him an
> Gongrats to him :-)

Thanks - I'll pass that on.

> > Iyonix. I hope that he doesn't find that he needs a Windows box to be able
> > to meet his coursework requirements - the Alpha would have been an ideal
>
> I thought I'd add my 2c as I graduated not too long ago...
>
> Your son will not "need" any computer in the sense that the University will
> have good computing facilites (especially if it's engineering or similar)
> with everything he will need.
>
> Of course, if he want's to work at home that's another matter :-(

Well, I gather that he'll get a place in hall for his first year, and
that nearly all the halls have network connections in the rooms. I'm
assuming that he'll want to be able to work there, as well as emailing
etc. Oh, he'll be reading Maths, BTW.

> By the end of my degree I had my Risc PC for writing essays/projects on (BSc
> Economics) and a cheapo PC I'd bought second hand from a dodgy little shop to
> hook up to our broadband for internet research and stuff.

He does have my old 586/133 card in his machine, but the performance is
a little dire, to say the least.

> Of course, the problem with the PC is software - unless you are prepared to
> pirate it then that's going to be a bit of a problem - especially things like
> AutoCAD!

Indeed!

> Hmmm, I don't think I've actually ended up saying much helpful - ah well,
> I've writen it now...

Well, it does give me some clue. The concept of having a computer
in your own room was unthinkable in my days at Uni!

Peter Bell

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Aug 14, 2003, 6:34:56 PM8/14/03
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In message <4c220a9904s...@argonet.co.uk>
Stuart Winsor <stuart...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <d727fc21...@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com>,
> Peter Bell <pe...@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote:
> > Ah - that is disappointing. So my son will probably end up taking his
> > RPC to Warwick
>
> Ahh, another possible for the "Midlands user group" - (see csa.misc)

Yes, already spotted. I will attempt to encourage him, but since he's
not planning on taking the car to Uni, he wouldn't easily be able to
attend meetings.

skok

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Aug 14, 2003, 6:34:13 PM8/14/03
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In nuus:661a0f22...@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com,
tik Peter Bell <pe...@bellfamily.org.uk>:

He can always go with Chris Williams??? :)

Samuel
--
Samuel Kock
Pretoria, South Africa
Bio: http://go.to/skock/bio.htm
Warning: this tagline is dangerous. Do not read it.


Steve Fryatt

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Aug 14, 2003, 6:39:58 PM8/14/03
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On 14 Aug, Peter Bell wrote in message
<d727fc21...@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com>:

> Ah - that is disappointing. So my son will probably end up taking his
> RPC to Warwick (yes, he got the grades!), unless we decide to get him an
> Iyonix. I hope that he doesn't find that he needs a Windows box to be
> able to meet his coursework requirements - the Alpha would have been an
> ideal compromise.

It depends on how 'dedicated' to RISC OS he is. Students generally don't
*need* a computer of their own to complete coursework: the university will
supply what is required in public labs. Having a computer is only useful
in that it allows work to be done at home as well (you could argue that
this is actually a bad thing!). I often used to prefer working in the
libraries anyway, particularly in the evenings, as I got more done and
could forget about it when I got home... :-)

I found that a RiscPC was fine when I did an Electronics degree at
Edinburgh a couple of years ago. However, there were some caveats to
that. I had access to the uni computers (both Unix workstations in the
department and Windows NT machines in public labs), so any compatibility
issues could be resolved by using the public machines. As an aside, I did
all my printing this way, via PostScript files on floppy discs...

Depending on the kind of work required, using RISC OS has some serious
disadvantages. If the course requires any form of group work (even
students legitimately helping each other with problems), not being able to
read and write common file formats sensibly is a pain. I often used to
start reports in Impression, only to convert them into Word format as soon
as I needed to work on them during the day or with other people.
Experience with TechWriter since makes me suspect that it wouldn't have
helped much. I never bothered trying to do spreadsheets on RISC OS.

I used to be able to access email via the RiscPC, but this was generally
done via Telnet onto Unix systems. I did use Messenger, but as read only
so that all sent email was logged in my 'real' accounts and available for
future reference. Web browsing was OK; universities are generally pretty
good at simple, standards compliant websites (Edinburgh's EE department
was very good :-).

There's little doubt that using RISC OS made things more difficult. That
didn't bother me too much and there were usually odd tricks to get around
the obstacles. The point was that these tricks were required, and
sometimes they required a fair bit of lateral thought to devise. You can
probably wave goodbye to any useful IT support, too, so knowing how to fix
problems (or knowing someone who can) is a must. Three years ago, RISC OS
only connected to the uni network by relying on legacy systems whose days
were allegedly numbered (many of the facilities I required to connect to
the EE machines were withdrawn the summer I graduated, IIRC...). Things
have improved at our end since then, of course.

Above all, you need to be happy that any hardware failure or obscure
problem which is beyond your abilities to fix immediately will not result
in missed deadlines. Unless you're lucky, it's unlikely to be possible to
find another RISC OS machine to rescue that Impression document after your
PSU has died. People with PCs won't have that problem (plenty of backup
machines in the labs), so it wasn't considered a reasonable excuse for
delay on the course I did. It may have been paranoid, but I always had an
ASCII backup of anything important that I did in Impression stored on a
fileserver somewhere.

But, having said all that, Draw was great for doing flowcharts, schematics
and general diagrams for reports. Many people said how good they were and
asked what software I'd used to create them... :-)

--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

* "There are only two emotions in a plane: boredom and terror." - Orson Wells

Chris Williams

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Aug 14, 2003, 8:04:55 PM8/14/03
to
Hi,

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003, Peter Bell wrote:

[snip snip]

> So my son will probably end up taking his RPC to Warwick (yes, he got
> the grades!), unless we decide to get him an Iyonix. I hope that he
> doesn't find that he needs a Windows box to be able to meet his
> coursework requirements - the Alpha would have been an ideal compromise.

What a coincidence, Warwick's got this thing about attracting RISC OS
users. I hope I can help you here, I'm an MEng undergrad at Warwick living
off campus. I spent my first year in Halls, Warwick's campus is great imo.

- I took my RiscPC to uni and didn't regret it. I had a few people tell
me I was running Redhat and it was particularly satisfying when my
RiscPC was immune to viruses that escaped onto the capmus network.
My RiscPC is a StrongARM RPC with a 586 PC card. The RPC worked happily
on the campus network and it was amazing to see Oregano fetch and render
pages at 200KB/sec.
You will need a DHCP client to connect the RiscPC to the network. This
means he'll need RISC OS 4 and Select. Select provides a DHCP client
and it takes 2 minutes to set it up and go.
If you take the Iyonix route, RISC OS 5 also features a DHCP client so
Iyonixes can connect to the campus network fine.

- For uni work, I used and still use OvationPro, Artworks, Eureka and
various freeware apps to produce graphs. With the RPC, I'd print in
Postscript format, ftp the ps file to the UNIX servers and print to the
postscript printers on campus. Takes less than 5 minutes.
Finishing coursework at 7am on the day it has to be handed in, printing
it out to the printers, strolling across campus to pick up the
print out and then after handing it, you walk back to Halls and
pick up a coffee on the way - it's a feeling I won't forget :) But
then, I'm not very good with deadlines.

- The uni email system has a number of interfaces. You can use the evil
web email system to read uni mail or you can pick up mail
via pop3 (cue Popstar, Messenger etc.) or use NettleSSH to connect to
the Unix servers and use Pine to read newsgroups and send/pickup email.

- My housemate is a Maths student and in the first year, he did a touch
of Java. The Java is mathematics based (dealing with sparse arrays and
similar things), which means the Java code can be compiled on the Unix
servers. The vast majority of the Maths work was in paper work.
In his 2nd year, my housemate did some Fortran programming, again,
on the Unix servers.

- Um, that's all I can think of at the moment. If you have any questions,
feel free to drop me an email and I'll only be too happy to help.

All the best,

--
Chris Williams | http://arabella.diodesign.co.uk/

John Cartmell

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Aug 14, 2003, 8:27:25 PM8/14/03
to
In article <6ab80e22...@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com>,

Peter Bell <pe...@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote:
> Well, it does give me some clue. The concept of having a computer
> in your own room was unthinkable in my days at Uni!

I wa one of the lucky few with modern technology - a manual typewriter! ;-)

--
John Cartmell jo...@cartmell.demon.co.uk FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527
Acorn Publisher magazine & FD Games www.acornpublisher.com

Stuart Winsor

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Aug 15, 2003, 12:14:30 PM8/15/03
to
In article <661a0f22...@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com>,

Peter Bell <pe...@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote:
> In message <4c220a9904s...@argonet.co.uk>
> Stuart Winsor <stuart...@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> > In article <d727fc21...@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com>,
> > Peter Bell <pe...@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote:
> > > Ah - that is disappointing. So my son will probably end up taking his
> > > RPC to Warwick
> >
> > Ahh, another possible for the "Midlands user group" - (see csa.misc)

> Yes, already spotted. I will attempt to encourage him, but since he's
> not planning on taking the car to Uni, he wouldn't easily be able to
> attend meetings.

There's a pretty good bus service to and from Coventry and I would pass
close to the university on my way in if that's where they're held, so I'm
sure arrangements could be made.

The son of a friend of ours is doing Maths at Warwick - think he's now
between years 2 and 3. He started doing "MORSE", didn't like it and
swapped to Maths and Philosophy. If your son has any questions I could
pass them on.

Stuart.

Stuart Winsor

unread,
Aug 15, 2003, 12:19:15 PM8/15/03
to
In article <7f900f22...@helvellyn.stevefryatt.org.uk>,

Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 14 Aug, Peter Bell wrote in message
> <d727fc21...@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com>:

> > Ah - that is disappointing. So my son will probably end up taking his
> > RPC to Warwick (yes, he got the grades!), unless we decide to get him
> > an Iyonix. I hope that he doesn't find that he needs a Windows box to
> > be able to meet his coursework requirements - the Alpha would have
> > been an ideal compromise.

> It depends on how 'dedicated' to RISC OS he is. Students generally
> don't *need* a computer of their own to complete coursework: the
> university will supply what is required in public labs.

Only a two or three years ago Warwick were saying that in future /all/
students /must/ provide themselves with a laptop. There was such an outcry
they backed off and things went "quiet".

Stuart Winsor

unread,
Aug 15, 2003, 12:30:10 PM8/15/03
to
> Unless you're lucky, it's unlikely to be possible to find another RISC
> OS machine to rescue that Impression document after your PSU has died.

If the user group gets going it shouldn't be a problem but even if it
doesn't I'm not planning on going anywhere.

If he has any problems give us "a shout" and I'll see what I can do.

I'll pass on my 'phone number privately if you like. I don't mung my Email
address and my wife works in HR in "Senate" building. Oh, and Anthony
Manning, a reader who's speciality is "Dynamical systems, is a friend of
ours.

Same goes for you Chris, though from the sound of it you know a great deal
more than I do.

Steven Pampling

unread,
Aug 15, 2003, 12:36:17 PM8/15/03
to
In article
<Pine.SOL.4.44.030815...@primrose.csv.warwick.ac.uk>,

Chris Williams <es...@warwick.ac.uk> wrote:
> The RPC worked happily on the campus network and it was amazing to see
> Oregano fetch and render pages at 200KB/sec.

Have you ever checked the bandwidth on the pipe into Warwick Uni?

Rumour has it that a large chunk of NTL connection stuff is there and that
"tunnel" would be a better description.

Dave Symes

unread,
Aug 15, 2003, 3:39:39 PM8/15/03
to
In article <039f0922...@richardsons.argonet.co.uk>,
Adam Richardson <cooladamr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Of course, the problem with the PC is software - unless you are prepared
> to pirate it then that's going to be a bit of a problem - especially
> things like AutoCAD!

My suggestion would be forget AutoCad @ somewhere 550 Ukpounds new,and
look at TurboCad. Either TC standard or TC Pro.

TurboCad is to AutoCad what PaintShopPro-8 is to Photoshop.

TC is distributed in the UK by Mediagold sa...@mediagold.com

Cheers
Dave S

--

Chris Williams

unread,
Aug 15, 2003, 4:18:01 PM8/15/03
to
Hi,

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003, Steven Pampling wrote:

> In article
> <Pine.SOL.4.44.030815...@primrose.csv.warwick.ac.uk>,
> Chris Williams <es...@warwick.ac.uk> wrote:
> > The RPC worked happily on the campus network and it was amazing to see
> > Oregano fetch and render pages at 200KB/sec.
>
> Have you ever checked the bandwidth on the pipe into Warwick Uni?

Check it out:
http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/services/its/facilities/residences/faq/

I know the uni campus network was a number of 100Mbit/s feeds and the
residential network has a 40MBit/sec connection which allows up to
4Mbit/sec per user.

> Rumour has it that a large chunk of NTL connection stuff is there and that
> "tunnel" would be a better description.

:-)

druck

unread,
Aug 15, 2003, 4:35:26 PM8/15/03
to
On 14 Aug 2003 Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

> On 14 Aug, Peter Bell wrote in message
> <d727fc21...@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com>:
>
> > Ah - that is disappointing. So my son will probably end up taking his
> > RPC to Warwick (yes, he got the grades!), unless we decide to get him an
> > Iyonix. I hope that he doesn't find that he needs a Windows box to be
> > able to meet his coursework requirements - the Alpha would have been an
> > ideal compromise.
>
> It depends on how 'dedicated' to RISC OS he is. Students generally don't
> *need* a computer of their own to complete coursework: the university will
> supply what is required in public labs.

I was very glad I had my A310 in my last few years of university, because I'd
never have been able to complete my projects with the facilities provided by
the university.

These were mostly underspec'd discless unix workstations being used from the
console for X applications which was ok, until two or more 1st years logged
on from the green screens up stairs and slaughtered them by running memory
gobbling nonsense such as Scheme and Miranda.

There were a PC's about back then, but they were riddled with viruses and
totally useless. With the latest msblaster worm running riot, I'm gald to see
nothing has changed :-)

Oh, make sure you go along to http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com at midnight
EST to see if its still up.

Steve Fryatt

unread,
Aug 15, 2003, 5:22:25 PM8/15/03
to
On 15 Aug, Stuart Winsor wrote in message
<4c22718b4bs...@argonet.co.uk>:

> In article <7f900f22...@helvellyn.stevefryatt.org.uk>,
> Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
>
> > Unless you're lucky, it's unlikely to be possible to find another RISC
> > OS machine to rescue that Impression document after your PSU has died.
>
> If the user group gets going it shouldn't be a problem but even if it
> doesn't I'm not planning on going anywhere.

True -- I'd forgotten that. Despite allegedly having a lot of users in
the Central Belt, nothing ever came of the often mooted Scottish RISC OS
User Group when I was up there.

I knew a few ex-RISC OS users, who were always inyterested to see where
the platform was going (or wasn't going, as the case may have been
around 1999). Real active users, with machines, were more of a rarity --
though I'm told one of my lecturers had a RiscPC on his desk and an office
I often visited had an A5000 under a dust cover in the corner...

Jess

unread,
Aug 17, 2003, 7:35:40 AM8/17/03
to
In message <7f900f22...@helvellyn.stevefryatt.org.uk>
Steve Fryatt <ne...@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:

[snip]

> Above all, you need to be happy that any hardware failure or obscure
> problem which is beyond your abilities to fix immediately will not result
> in missed deadlines. Unless you're lucky, it's unlikely to be possible to
> find another RISC OS machine to rescue that Impression document after your
> PSU has died. People with PCs won't have that problem (plenty of backup
> machines in the labs), so it wasn't considered a reasonable excuse for
> delay on the course I did. It may have been paranoid, but I always had an
> ASCII backup of anything important that I did in Impression stored on a
> fileserver somewhere.

That would be a good excercise whatever system you use. A copy of
VA5000 might be woth taking for emercencies too.

Do universities offer connection to terminal server or citrix
now, typically? I was pleasntly surprised at how well both these work
on my SA RPC.

--
Jess icq: 91353267 msn: phant...@hotmail.com http://www.kentwebnet.com
Hotmail is my spam trap - don't use for email
mailto:nos...@itworkshop.uklinux.net
RISC OS 4.36 kinetic 64+128+2M Castle Storm DMA + 17GB 586-133 I-3 ADSL


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Philip Ludlam

unread,
Aug 18, 2003, 10:12:40 AM8/18/03
to
On 15 Aug, in message <Pine.SOL.4.44.030815...@primrose.csv.warwick.ac.uk>
Chris Williams <es...@warwick.ac.uk> wrote:

[snip]

> Finishing coursework at 7am on the day it has to be handed in,

Where's the 2:30pm print out and the rush to the office which closes at
3pm?!?! :-) .

Yours,

Phil L.
--
http://www.philipnet.com http://director.sourceforge.net
i ou a uea i e a o ie e a o a a oue oae

Graham Thurlwell

unread,
Aug 21, 2003, 3:15:24 PM8/21/03
to
In message <d727fc21...@iyonix.earley.fourcom.com>
Peter Bell <pe...@bellfamily.org.uk> wrote:

> I hope that he doesn't find that he needs a Windows box to
> be able to meet his coursework requirements - the Alpha would have been
> an ideal compromise.

Depending on what he's doing, he might not. When I was at university, I
got a PC instead of a RISC OS machine because I thought that I'd need
the compatibility (this was back in 1996) with MS Office. As it turned
out, in four years I only /needed/ Office twice.

For one of these, the assignment specifically said Powerpoint had to be
used. However, since it was supposed to be submitted on paper, I
honestly don't think the lecturer would've noticed if I'd done it on
Impression.

--
Graham Thurlwell

Jades' First Encounters Site
http://www.jades.org/ffe.htm

Kell Gatherer

unread,
Aug 22, 2003, 6:08:40 AM8/22/03
to
In article <4ed7ef21...@druck.freeuk.net>,

druck <ne...@druck.freeuk.com> wrote:
> >>> Who assured you it is being worked on?
> >>
> >> I was told by both David Atkins & Aaron, so I suspect it is true.

> It isn't being worked on, because I dont have any free time at the
> moment and cant see any coming for months.

What could change your mind?



> > I was also told this by another guy (not sure whether it was Graeme
> > Barnes???) sitting in front of VA on the VA stand at Wakefield, who
> > assured me that access at the TCP socket level would be feasible.

> It is feasible, the prototype works with a limited set of applications,
> but I don't have the time to write a comprehensive test suite to be able
> to fully debug it. I can only work on it when I have access to a PC and
> thats during office hours, which are being used for their primary
> purpose at the moment.

I could loan you a PC ;-)

Seriously, though, how about all of us who still have deposits with
RiscStation on their laptop :-D "encouraged" you to make this essential
feature available?

The biggest single reason I don't want the Alpha is because I'd have to
use some invention of Satan to handle email. I want to use Pluto!!!

--
Kell Gatherer
ke...@locsource.com
The Location Source

Peter Bell

unread,
Aug 22, 2003, 6:51:56 AM8/22/03
to
In message <4c25e977...@locsource.com>
Kell Gatherer <nos...@locsource.com> wrote:

> Seriously, though, how about all of us who still have deposits with
> RiscStation on their laptop :-D "encouraged" you to make this essential
> feature available?

As an existing owner of an Alpha (and potential purchaser of a second),
I would also be prepared to add some inducement for the early
completion of a sockets-level interface for VRPC. I suspect that I
might not be alone here.

Graeme Barnes

unread,
Aug 22, 2003, 9:20:05 AM8/22/03
to

It is actively being developed and many things work well (browse, fresco,
ftp etc). There is still some work to be done and it will be released when
we're happy with it.

Graeme


Peter Bell

unread,
Aug 22, 2003, 10:00:58 AM8/22/03
to
In message <bi55a6$bh5$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
"Graeme Barnes" <gra...@redsquirrel.no.spam.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

> Peter Bell wrote:
> > I would also be prepared to add some inducement for the early
> > completion of a sockets-level interface for VRPC. I suspect that I
> > might not be alone here.
>
> It is actively being developed and many things work well (browse, fresco,
> ftp etc).

Thanks for that assurance, Graeme. It's good to hear that some things
are working. Two items I am particularly keen to see working are my
lprdriver (from R-Comp) and my telnet block driver (from
url:http://www.bellfamily.org.uk/downloads/telnet.zip).

> There is still some work to be done and it will be released when
> we're happy with it.

If you need a beta tester .....

Kell Gatherer

unread,
Aug 22, 2003, 10:22:46 AM8/22/03
to
In article <bi55a6$bh5$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>,

Graeme Barnes <gra...@redsquirrel.no.spam.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> > As an existing owner of an Alpha (and potential purchaser of a
> > second), I would also be prepared to add some inducement for the early
> > completion of a sockets-level interface for VRPC. I suspect that I
> > might not be alone here.

> It is actively being developed and many things work well (browse,
> fresco, ftp etc). There is still some work to be done and it will be
> released when we're happy with it.

Excellent news! Er, except on one front: I'll have to scrape the money
together now to buy an Alpha ;-)

Any Alpha owners care to comment on the two models available? That's a lot
of money difference between them.

Jess

unread,
Aug 22, 2003, 2:32:44 PM8/22/03
to
In message <bi55a6$bh5$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>

[snip]

> It is actively being developed and many things work well (browse, fresco,
> ftp etc). There is still some work to be done and it will be released when
> we're happy with it.

Will it work on VA5000 too?

Peter Bell

unread,
Aug 22, 2003, 3:56:26 PM8/22/03
to
In message <4c2600bb...@locsource.com>
Kell Gatherer <nos...@locsource.com> wrote:

> Any Alpha owners care to comment on the two models available? That's a lot
> of money difference between them.

I deliberated on this, and then discussed at some length with David A,
before deciding that the lesser model would be perfectly okay for me.
David was also of the opinion that the original model would be
perfectly good - it's what he uses, and he didn't attempt to 'sell' the
more expensive model to me.

The only differences between the two models are:
1) 2.4GHz P4 instead of 2GHz Celeron
The performance won't scale linearly so, even given that it's a P4
against Celeron, I wouldn't expect it to be 20% faster
2) 512MB instead of 256MB
I'm not going to use it as a 'power' PC, and the 256MB will allow a
128MB RO environment - more than enough.
3) 30GB instead of 15GB drive
Again, it's not meant as a 'power' machine. Even with WinXP loaded,
plus a few PC progs, and some apps in the RO area I still have
10.5GB free.
4) DVD/CDRW instead of CD
I wouldn't be writing CDs on this machine - I'd do that on a desktop
box - DVD might be useful, but certainly not essential.
5) XP Pro instead of XP home
I'm not aware what benfits would be offered by this.

Other than those five items, the machines are identical.

In any case, all but item 1 can be added as options at a price of
GBP276, so that would still be GBP58 cheaper than the Alpha Pro. Also,
the RAM and, probably, the hard drive and DVD/CDRW could be upgraded
later. The processor and O/S could not be upgraded, because VRPC is
keyed against certain aspects of the machine configuration, and I'm
sure that those would affect the generated key.

Graeme Barnes

unread,
Aug 22, 2003, 6:45:39 PM8/22/03
to
Jess wrote:
> In message <bi55a6$bh5$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
>
> [snip]
>
>> It is actively being developed and many things work well (browse,
>> fresco, ftp etc). There is still some work to be done and it will be
>> released when we're happy with it.
>
> Will it work on VA5000 too?

I don't know enough about the workings of RISC OS to give you a definite
answer but the VA internet support doesn't rely on any other modules being
present so, providing the app you want to use works in RISC OS 3.1, yes it
should work.

Graeme

Andy McMullon

unread,
Aug 22, 2003, 2:37:39 PM8/22/03
to
In missive <bi55a6$bh5$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>
"Graeme Barnes" <gra...@redsquirrel.no.spam.fsnet.co.uk> expounded:

As a happy owner of Virtual A5000 I do hope that Virtual RPC will soon
be set free from the disappointing confines of the Alpha hardware.

I don't mind paying a reasonable amount for VA and RISC OS Select - I
just want to be able to run it on better hardware.

--
an...@mcfamily.demon.co.uk

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